From aadkins7 at verizon.net Fri Oct 1 00:33:09 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:33:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: <0940B7368CC34271BA57185CE01F234C@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hi, Part of the answer to your question is probably healthwise. The George Foreman grill drains its grease into a little tray that is placed up against it, and therefore, the food is probably healthier. With a grill, you are grilling; with an oven, you are baking. You do not use a pan or baking dish with the grill, but with an oven, you place the food in a baking pan or on a cookie sheet. Also, in an oven, you can bake casseroles. A grill cooks meat like hamburgers, hot dogs, pork chops, and chicken. An oven can do this too, but in it, you can also do other things like bake yummy cookies and make bread, things which you couldn't do on a grill. So the appliance you choose would depend on your purpose and your mood. I use both the oven and grill. Just some tips. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi, Kerry and all, > I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from > everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. > One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave > all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an > oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you > use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! > Katie > > > > On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >> >> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >> two ingredients. >> >> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>> From >>> Jacob Struiksma >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>> chicken >>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>> >>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>> for >>> soup. >>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>> >>> >>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >>> of >>> Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>> >>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>> microwave. >>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>> >>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>>> don't like them. >>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>>> again! >>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>> it. >>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>> >>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>> >>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>> >>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>> >>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>> done. >>>>> >>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>>> plain ones. >>>>> >>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>> >>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>> more taste. >>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>> and experimenting. >>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>> >>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>> stuff. >>> >>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>>> mind first. >>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine >>> does. >>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>> know what all is there. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>> >>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>> >>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>> >>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>> >>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>> >>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>> something >>> simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>> Kerri >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>> wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 00:42:05 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:42:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi: A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than bakes as a toaster oven does. I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman lol. I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have never done this. To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety online...that would help a ton. If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort of on my own. By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making hamburger helper forever now! Kerri On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi, Kerry and all, > I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from > everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. > One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave > all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an > oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you > use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! > Katie > > > > On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >> >> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >> two ingredients. >> >> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>> From >>> Jacob Struiksma >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>> chicken >>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>> >>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>> for >>> soup. >>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>> >>> >>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >>> of >>> Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>> >>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>> microwave. >>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>> >>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>>> don't like them. >>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>>> again! >>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>> >>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>> >>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>> >>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>> >>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >>>>> >>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>>> plain ones. >>>>> >>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>> >>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>> more taste. >>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>> and experimenting. >>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>> >>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>> stuff. >>> >>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>>> mind first. >>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine >>> does. >>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>> know what all is there. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>> >>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>> >>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>> >>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>> >>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>> >>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>> something >>> simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>> Kerri >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>> wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From jp100 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 01:32:10 2010 From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:32:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] Does anyone know? In-Reply-To: References: <007701cb60f4$249655f0$6dc301d0$@net> <80CE6B9C-B56B-4CF8-8FEB-94796FC332C5@panix.com> Message-ID: <004301cb6108$788006c0$69801440$@net> Thanks for your help guys. I kind of knew that particular answer, which is why I thought there might be an easier way. I'll explain why I asked, since I got these great answers. I got in touch with folks from my home town through Facebook that I hadn't talked to since high school or thereabouts. Believe it or not, I don't have their email addresses because many of them just said that they were keeping in touch more through facebook than through regular email. I will be going home for about a week and wanted to see if there was any interest from them regarding getting some kind of gathering organized while I'm there. And seriously, I'm aware that I could send each person an email, but I thought there was a way to send a group message to several folks at once. I wasn't trying to ask this question to annoy people. And yes...I'm aware about facebook security as well. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cheryl echevarria Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 4:38 PM To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Does anyone know? yes there is. Just like mike said send e-mail on facebook. The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! Cheryl Echevarria http://Echevarriatravel.com 1-866-580-5574 Reservations at echevarriatravel.com Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10 Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel Inc. join my yahoogroup echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Freeman To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Does anyone know? Send 'em an email! (har) Mike Freeman sent from my iPhone On Sep 30, 2010, at 16:06, "Jim" > wrote: > Howdy Facebook users, > > > > Does anyone know if on Facebook, one can write something to only a select > group of people without having to post it as an event? > > For instance, I want to let my friends from my home town know that I'll be > going to visit but don't need to let all of my other friends know so as not > to clutter up things on their end. > > I thought of doing it as an event, but that's probably not the way to go. > The group is large enough. > > > > Any ideas? > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma il.com _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthlink.net From MRiccobono at nfb.org Fri Oct 1 02:02:07 2010 From: MRiccobono at nfb.org (Riccobono, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:02:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Arizona School for the Blind Needs English Teacher Message-ID: Arizona School for the Blind is looking for a Certified Secondary English Teacher to join our High School. The individual should be Highly Qualified to teach English - with an emphasis on writing. Ideally that person would be certified to teach students with visual impairments, but, if not, we would pair the individual with someone who is, and give him or her 3 years to obtain the certification. If you know anybody who might be interested please let them know they can apply at azstatejobs.gov: Here is the actual job: https://secure.azstatejobs.gov/pljb/global_jsp/applicant/DisplayJob/JobD etails.jsp?display=1&pljbHome=/azgovjobs/mainjb/applicant/index.jsp&id=3 4951 Thank you in advance for your help! Samuel Ace, Principal Arizona State Schools for the Deaf and the Blind 1200 W. Speedway Tucson, AZ 85745 samuel.ace at asdb.az.gov 520.770.3202 v 520.770.3007 f From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Oct 1 02:20:59 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:20:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: <6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping online. As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things while an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, and sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have you ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that except for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi: > > A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than > bakes as a toaster oven does. > > I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes > better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for > so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the > toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman > lol. > > I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for > meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have > never done this. > > To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I > could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm > going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online > then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking > on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed > in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this > for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety > online...that would help a ton. > > If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I > know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a > ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already > is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people > around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort > of on my own. > > By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I > took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the > microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, > put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another > minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted > exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it > had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is > good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found > microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making > hamburger helper forever now! > > Kerri > > On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >> Hi, Kerry and all, >> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >> Katie >> >> >> >> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>> >>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >>> two ingredients. >>> >>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>> From >>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>> chicken >>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>> >>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>>> for >>>> soup. >>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>> Association >>>> of >>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>> microwave. >>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>> >>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>>>> again! >>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>>> it. >>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>> >>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>> done. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>>> more taste. >>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>> >>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>> stuff. >>>> >>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>>>> mind first. >>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>> Mine >>>> does. >>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>> >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>> something >>>> simple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Oct 1 02:42:41 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:42:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions about embossers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Either one would probably be fine. They both make good machines. Indexes tend to be a little quieter. Since they come from Europe, your dealer and/or whoever is doing repairs for them now will be your point of contact. They have allied with various people over years -- index that is. You might consider talking to Steve Booth at the NFB's International Braille and technology Center for the Blind 410-659-9314 he follows and uses Braille technology heavily. Dave At 01:48 PM 9/30/2010, you wrote: >Hi everyone. > >I have a couple of questions. I am in the process of perchasing a lot >of technology. I am going to buy the lime and goodfeel music >software, duxbury, and an embosser. I am working with the assistive >technology specialist at the university to decide which embosser to >buy. There are really a lot of them. We were thinking about the >Index Basic D or the Romio Attache. We want one that is small enough >to be a personal embosser. Here are a few of the questions we came up >with in regards to the embossers. > >1. What company should we buy from? We are looking for a company with >good customer service. >2. Have there been any major problems with either of these embossers? >3, What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages of each? >4. If you were given the choice, which embosser would you buy and why? > >I would also want something that works well with music. Of course, if >you have any other recommendations, please let me know. Also, what >kind of scanner would you recommend? I want something that is easy to >use and quick. Thanks. >-- >Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >Eyes for the Blind > >"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >life." >John 3:16 David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From jp100 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 04:37:31 2010 From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:37:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] facebook groups question (was Re: Does anyone know?) In-Reply-To: <20101001014733.GD16394@barcore.com> References: <007701cb60f4$249655f0$6dc301d0$@net> <80CE6B9C-B56B-4CF8-8FEB-94796FC332C5@panix.com> <004301cb6108$788006c0$69801440$@net> <20101001014733.GD16394@barcore.com> Message-ID: <002501cb6122$5d5401c0$17fc0540$@net> Thanks Jim! I appreciate that suggestion and will try it. I knew there had to be a way. -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 6:48 PM To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List Cc: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nfbcs] facebook groups question (was Re: Does anyone know?) Howdy, Using the standard facebook web interface, a user can create lists of friends and then send a message to such a list. The problem is, I don't know how easy this is to do with speech or with the mobile interface. So, it's definately doable, but I haven't needed to use it so I don't know if it's accessible. Start by trying to manage your friends, see if you can create a list called "hometown" and then add those friends to that list. If you can to this, then click on "messages" and then "new message", instead of typing a friend's name, type "hometown" That should work. Feel free to contact me if you have more questions. Jim On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 06:32:10PM -0700, Jim wrote: > Thanks for your help guys. I kind of knew that particular answer, which is > why I thought there might be an easier way. > > I'll explain why I asked, since I got these great answers. > > I got in touch with folks from my home town through Facebook that I hadn't > talked to since high school or thereabouts. Believe it or not, I don't have > their email addresses because many of them just said that they were keeping > in touch more through facebook than through regular email. > I will be going home for about a week and wanted to see if there was any > interest from them regarding getting some kind of gathering organized while > I'm there. > > And seriously, I'm aware that I could send each person an email, but I > thought there was a way to send a group message to several folks at once. I > wasn't trying to ask this question to annoy people. And yes...I'm aware > about facebook security as well. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of cheryl echevarria > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 4:38 PM > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Does anyone know? > > yes there is. > > Just like mike said send e-mail on facebook. > > The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! > > Cheryl Echevarria > http://Echevarriatravel.com > 1-866-580-5574 > Reservations at echevarriatravel.com > > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10 > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel Inc. > > join my yahoogroup > echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com @yahoogroups.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Freeman > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Does anyone know? > > > Send 'em an email! (har) > > Mike Freeman > sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 30, 2010, at 16:06, "Jim" > > wrote: > > > Howdy Facebook users, > > > > > > > > Does anyone know if on Facebook, one can write something to only a > select > > group of people without having to post it as an event? > > > > For instance, I want to let my friends from my home town know that I'll > be > > going to visit but don't need to let all of my other friends know so as > not > > to clutter up things on their end. > > > > I thought of doing it as an event, but that's probably not the way to > go. > > The group is large enough. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nfbcs mailing list > > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org g/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nfbcs: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com p://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com> > > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org g/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nfbcs: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma > il.com 40hotmail.com> > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com > _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthlink.net From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 05:42:33 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 01:42:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: <6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> <6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that very soon. This is a great thread:) Katie On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping online. > > As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things while > an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, and > sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have you > ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that except > for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Hi: >> >> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than >> bakes as a toaster oven does. >> >> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes >> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for >> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the >> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman >> lol. >> >> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for >> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have >> never done this. >> >> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I >> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm >> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online >> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking >> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed >> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this >> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety >> online...that would help a ton. >> >> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I >> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a >> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already >> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people >> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort >> of on my own. >> >> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I >> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the >> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, >> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another >> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted >> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it >> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is >> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found >> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making >> hamburger helper forever now! >> >> Kerri >> >> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >>> Hi, Kerry and all, >>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>>> >>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >>>> two ingredients. >>>> >>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>>> From >>>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>> >>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>>> chicken >>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>>> >>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>>>> for >>>>> soup. >>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>>> Association >>>>> of >>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>>> microwave. >>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>>>>> again! >>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>>> done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>>>> more taste. >>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>>> stuff. >>>>> >>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>>>>> mind first. >>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>>> Mine >>>>> does. >>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>>> something >>>>> simple. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 07:18:11 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 03:18:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> <6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Hi Nicole and All: Safeway looks good, but I can't figure out how to browse? I typed in my zipcode and there isn't one in my area...so I just typed in the keyword search "chicken marinade" and a bunch of recipes for different home-made marinades came up. What I want is a list of bottled/already-made marinades sold in popular stores such as Kroger or walmart so when I go I have some idea of what to get. On doing a google search for "browsing grocery store online" I got walmart.com grocery but currently it says it's unavailable for maintinence. What about amazon grocery? I don't think there is any delivery grocery services where I live (although that would be nice) so I'm not looking necessairily for online grocery shopping per say but just a way to see what some of the items in the isles are so I can get a better idea of what to get when I do go to the store that way I don't have to take up the customer service person's time browsing and having no clue what I want. Am I missing something with the Safeway site? Can you browse their groceries without being a member or having a store in your area? What about Walmart.com grocery and amazon.com grocery? Would those be my best bet for what I'm looking for? I didn't see anything like this on Kroger.com except for their weekly ads! Kerri On 10/1/10, Katie Wang wrote: > Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now > that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an > option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the > microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that > very soon. This is a great thread:) > Katie > > > On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping online. >> >> As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things while >> an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, and >> sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have >> you >> ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that except >> for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than >>> bakes as a toaster oven does. >>> >>> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes >>> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for >>> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the >>> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman >>> lol. >>> >>> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for >>> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have >>> never done this. >>> >>> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I >>> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm >>> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online >>> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking >>> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed >>> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this >>> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety >>> online...that would help a ton. >>> >>> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I >>> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a >>> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already >>> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people >>> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort >>> of on my own. >>> >>> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I >>> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the >>> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, >>> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another >>> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted >>> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it >>> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is >>> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found >>> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making >>> hamburger helper forever now! >>> >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi, Kerry and all, >>>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >>>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >>>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >>>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >>>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >>>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>>>> >>>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >>>>> two ingredients. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>>>> From >>>>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>>>> chicken >>>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>>>>> for >>>>>> soup. >>>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>>>> Association >>>>>> of >>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates >>>>>>>> grease >>>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>>>> microwave. >>>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. >>>>>>>> Check >>>>>>>> again! >>>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread >>>>>>>> crumbs. >>>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>>>>> more taste. >>>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store >>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the >>>>>>>> rehab >>>>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> mind first. >>>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>>>> Mine >>>>>> does. >>>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >>>>>>>> Students >>>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes >>>>>>>>> stirring >>>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the >>>>>>>>> eggs. >>>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. >>>>>>>>> Should >>>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the >>>>>>>>> George >>>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>> simple. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 08:21:45 2010 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 04:21:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> <6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I use the Walmart grocery website all the time to read about and choose grocery products before going to the store. Are you planning to shop first thing tomorrow morning? Usually website maintenance like this only takes a few hours, a day at the absolute maximum. I suggest you try again in a few hours, or tomorrow if you don't need to go to the store first thing in the morning. I've found no better source for this kind of task than the Walmart grocery beta. Not only does it give you all of the package information for the different types and brands of product out there, but it lets you check if your local store carries the item you're looking at. You can even set it now to only show items in your local Walmart. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Nicole and All: > > Safeway looks good, but I can't figure out how to browse? > I typed in my zipcode and there isn't one in my area...so I just typed > in the keyword search "chicken marinade" and a bunch of recipes for > different home-made marinades came up. > What I want is a list of bottled/already-made marinades sold in > popular stores such as Kroger or walmart so when I go I have some idea > of what to get. > > On doing a google search for "browsing grocery store online" I got > walmart.com grocery but currently it says it's unavailable for > maintinence. > > What about amazon grocery? > > I don't think there is any delivery grocery services where I live > (although that would be nice) so I'm not looking necessairily for > online grocery shopping per say but just a way to see what some of the > items in the isles are so I can get a better idea of what to get when > I do go to the store that way I don't have to take up the customer > service person's time browsing and having no clue what I want. > > Am I missing something with the Safeway site? Can you browse their > groceries without being a member or having a store in your area? > > What about Walmart.com grocery and amazon.com grocery? Would those be > my best bet for what I'm looking for? > > I didn't see anything like this on Kroger.com except for their weekly ads! > > Kerri > > On 10/1/10, Katie Wang wrote: > > Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now > > that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an > > option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the > > microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that > > very soon. This is a great thread:) > > Katie > > > > > > On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > >> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping > online. > >> > >> As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things > while > >> an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, > and > >> sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have > >> you > >> ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that > except > >> for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. > >> > >> Nicole > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kerri Kosten" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > >> > >> > >>> Hi: > >>> > >>> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than > >>> bakes as a toaster oven does. > >>> > >>> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes > >>> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for > >>> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the > >>> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman > >>> lol. > >>> > >>> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for > >>> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have > >>> never done this. > >>> > >>> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I > >>> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm > >>> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online > >>> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking > >>> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed > >>> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this > >>> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety > >>> online...that would help a ton. > >>> > >>> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I > >>> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a > >>> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already > >>> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people > >>> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort > >>> of on my own. > >>> > >>> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I > >>> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the > >>> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, > >>> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another > >>> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted > >>> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it > >>> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is > >>> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found > >>> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making > >>> hamburger helper forever now! > >>> > >>> Kerri > >>> > >>> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: > >>>> Hi, Kerry and all, > >>>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from > >>>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. > >>>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave > >>>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an > >>>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you > >>>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! > >>>> Katie > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for > >>>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind > >>>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken > >>>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the > >>>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken > >>>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just > >>>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in > >>>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can > >>>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. > >>>>> > >>>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone > >>>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless > >>>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one > or > >>>>> two ingredients. > >>>>> > >>>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you > >>>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for > >>>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. > >>>>> > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > >>>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. > >>>>>> From > >>>>>> Jacob Struiksma > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >>>>>> Behalf > >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM > >>>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students > >>>>>> mailing > >>>>>> list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as > >>>>>> chicken > >>>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up > chicken > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> soup. > >>>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn > the > >>>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > >>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National > >>>>>> Association > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, > I > >>>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi Kerri, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound > >>>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates > >>>>>>>> grease > >>>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break > the > >>>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a > >>>>>> microwave. > >>>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george > >>>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> don't like them. > >>>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. > >>>>>>>> Check > >>>>>>>> again! > >>>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not > measured > >>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them > and > >>>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or > >>>>>>>> 15 second intervals. > >>>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this > >>>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! > >>>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the > >>>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what > is > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. > >>>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef > including > >>>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I > am > >>>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its > >>>>>>>> done. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. > >>>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread > >>>>>>>> crumbs. > >>>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that > >>>>>>>> get > >>>>>>>> plain ones. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless > skinless > >>>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for > >>>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do > >>>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? > >>>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup > for > >>>>>>>> more taste. > >>>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores > >>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store > >>>>>>>> name > >>>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal > tastes > >>>>>>>> and experimenting. > >>>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the > >>>>>>>> rehab > >>>>>>>> center I went to in state. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. > For > >>>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as > asking > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you > and > >>>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. > >>>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend > >>>>>>>> stuff. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> mind first. > >>>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher > to > >>>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? > >>>>>>>> Mine > >>>>>> does. > >>>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic > skills > >>>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. > >>>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. > >>>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses > >>>>>>>> offer > >>>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help > >>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you > >>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so > you > >>>>>>>> know what all is there. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Good luck. > >>>>>>>> Ashley > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" > >>>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind > >>>>>>>> Students > >>>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" > >>>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cc: > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM > >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi All! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but > wanted > >>>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding > recipes. > >>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this > >>>>>>>>> time. > >>>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a > small > >>>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can > >>>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. > I > >>>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does > it > >>>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring > spoon > >>>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table > >>>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the > >>>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read > it's > >>>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have > >>>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all > say > >>>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 > >>>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another > 10 > >>>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second > intervals > >>>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in > the > >>>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute > and > >>>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them > >>>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds > >>>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes > >>>>>>>>> stirring > >>>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table > >>>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the > littlest > >>>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small > pat > >>>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can > I > >>>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the > >>>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put > >>>>>>>>> too much butter in? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the > >>>>>>>>> eggs. > >>>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I > >>>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy > either. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in > >>>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs > uncovered? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the > >>>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar > of > >>>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, > and > >>>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some > recipes > >>>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the > >>>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and > chilli > >>>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. > >>>>>>>>> Should > >>>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? > >>>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at > all > >>>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking > >>>>>>>>> them > >>>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? > There > >>>>>>>>> are many different types. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a > 160 > >>>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either > >>>>>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have > any > >>>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it > >>>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, > >>>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know > >>>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the > >>>>>>>>> George > >>>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this > gets > >>>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I > can > >>>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill > >>>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very > >>>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for > >>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>> simple. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I > just > >>>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to > overthink > >>>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing > >>>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I > >>>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, > a > >>>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I > >>>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does > >>>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a > recipe > >>>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with > a > >>>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first > >>>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do > >>>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much! > >>>>>>>>> Kerri > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% > >>>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 > >>>>>>>> wavecable.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > >>>>>> l.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Arielle Silverman > >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students > >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 > >>>>> Email: > >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com > >>>>> Website: > >>>>> www.nabslink.org > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From aadkins7 at verizon.net Fri Oct 1 12:27:47 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 08:27:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> <6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <7902576E75884DD9B8EE594736684D86@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hi, I like this site because it is very accessible and very usable, meaning I can move around the page very easy. Also, I can print a list to take with me, and also it can be emailed to me. It may not be exactly what you are looking for, but you can check it out if you like. It has the foods in different categories, and as you go down the page, you reach each category. Also, it has edit fields for putting in items you do not find in its list. My Grocery Checklist - Custom Grocery food lists made fast and easy - mygrocerychecklist.com http://www.mygrocerychecklist.com/ Just FYI. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi Nicole and All: > > Safeway looks good, but I can't figure out how to browse? > I typed in my zipcode and there isn't one in my area...so I just typed > in the keyword search "chicken marinade" and a bunch of recipes for > different home-made marinades came up. > What I want is a list of bottled/already-made marinades sold in > popular stores such as Kroger or walmart so when I go I have some idea > of what to get. > > On doing a google search for "browsing grocery store online" I got > walmart.com grocery but currently it says it's unavailable for > maintinence. > > What about amazon grocery? > > I don't think there is any delivery grocery services where I live > (although that would be nice) so I'm not looking necessairily for > online grocery shopping per say but just a way to see what some of the > items in the isles are so I can get a better idea of what to get when > I do go to the store that way I don't have to take up the customer > service person's time browsing and having no clue what I want. > > Am I missing something with the Safeway site? Can you browse their > groceries without being a member or having a store in your area? > > What about Walmart.com grocery and amazon.com grocery? Would those be > my best bet for what I'm looking for? > > I didn't see anything like this on Kroger.com except for their weekly ads! > > Kerri > > On 10/1/10, Katie Wang wrote: >> Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now >> that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an >> option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the >> microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that >> very soon. This is a great thread:) >> Katie >> >> >> On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping >>> online. >>> >>> As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things >>> while >>> an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, >>> and >>> sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have >>> you >>> ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that >>> except >>> for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Hi: >>>> >>>> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than >>>> bakes as a toaster oven does. >>>> >>>> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes >>>> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for >>>> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the >>>> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman >>>> lol. >>>> >>>> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for >>>> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have >>>> never done this. >>>> >>>> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I >>>> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm >>>> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online >>>> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking >>>> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed >>>> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this >>>> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety >>>> online...that would help a ton. >>>> >>>> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I >>>> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a >>>> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already >>>> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people >>>> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort >>>> of on my own. >>>> >>>> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I >>>> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the >>>> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, >>>> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another >>>> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted >>>> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it >>>> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is >>>> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found >>>> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making >>>> hamburger helper forever now! >>>> >>>> Kerri >>>> >>>> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>> Hi, Kerry and all, >>>>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >>>>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >>>>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >>>>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >>>>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >>>>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >>>>> Katie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>>>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>>>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>>>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>>>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>>>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>>>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>>>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>>>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>>>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>>>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one >>>>>> or >>>>>> two ingredients. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>>>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>>>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>>>>> From >>>>>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> mailing >>>>>>> list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>>>>> chicken >>>>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up >>>>>>> chicken >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> soup. >>>>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>>>>> Association >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates >>>>>>>>> grease >>>>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>>>>> microwave. >>>>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. >>>>>>>>> Check >>>>>>>>> again! >>>>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not >>>>>>>>> measured >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef >>>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread >>>>>>>>> crumbs. >>>>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless >>>>>>>>> skinless >>>>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> more taste. >>>>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store >>>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal >>>>>>>>> tastes >>>>>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the >>>>>>>>> rehab >>>>>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. >>>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as >>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> mind first. >>>>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>>>>> Mine >>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic >>>>>>>>> skills >>>>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses >>>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >>>>>>>>> Students >>>>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but >>>>>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding >>>>>>>>>> recipes. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this >>>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a >>>>>>>>>> small >>>>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring >>>>>>>>>> spoon >>>>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all >>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another >>>>>>>>>> 10 >>>>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second >>>>>>>>>> intervals >>>>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes >>>>>>>>>> stirring >>>>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the >>>>>>>>>> littlest >>>>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small >>>>>>>>>> pat >>>>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the >>>>>>>>>> eggs. >>>>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy >>>>>>>>>> either. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs >>>>>>>>>> uncovered? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some >>>>>>>>>> recipes >>>>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and >>>>>>>>>> chilli >>>>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. >>>>>>>>>> Should >>>>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at >>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? >>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a >>>>>>>>>> 160 >>>>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have >>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the >>>>>>>>>> George >>>>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this >>>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>> simple. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to >>>>>>>>>> overthink >>>>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a >>>>>>>>>> recipe >>>>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 15:04:24 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:04:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley><6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Message-ID: If you are looking for cookbooks, National Braille Press is a treasure trove of topic specific resources. I'd venture to say BARD or Web-Braille would also have quick cookbook recipes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K atie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now > that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an > option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the > microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that > very soon. This is a great thread:) > Katie > > > On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping online. >> >> As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things >> while >> an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, >> and >> sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have >> you >> ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that >> except >> for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than >>> bakes as a toaster oven does. >>> >>> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes >>> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for >>> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the >>> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman >>> lol. >>> >>> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for >>> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have >>> never done this. >>> >>> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I >>> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm >>> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online >>> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking >>> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed >>> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this >>> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety >>> online...that would help a ton. >>> >>> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I >>> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a >>> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already >>> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people >>> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort >>> of on my own. >>> >>> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I >>> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the >>> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, >>> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another >>> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted >>> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it >>> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is >>> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found >>> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making >>> hamburger helper forever now! >>> >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi, Kerry and all, >>>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >>>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >>>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >>>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >>>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >>>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>>>> >>>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >>>>> two ingredients. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>>>> From >>>>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>>>> chicken >>>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up >>>>>> chicken >>>>>> for >>>>>> soup. >>>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>>>> Association >>>>>> of >>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates >>>>>>>> grease >>>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>>>> microwave. >>>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. >>>>>>>> Check >>>>>>>> again! >>>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef >>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I >>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread >>>>>>>> crumbs. >>>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> more taste. >>>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store >>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal >>>>>>>> tastes >>>>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the >>>>>>>> rehab >>>>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. >>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> mind first. >>>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>>>> Mine >>>>>> does. >>>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >>>>>>>> Students >>>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but >>>>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a >>>>>>>>> small >>>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second >>>>>>>>> intervals >>>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes >>>>>>>>> stirring >>>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the >>>>>>>>> eggs. >>>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy >>>>>>>>> either. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some >>>>>>>>> recipes >>>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and >>>>>>>>> chilli >>>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. >>>>>>>>> Should >>>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the >>>>>>>>> George >>>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>> simple. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From BJLejeune at colled.msstate.edu Fri Oct 1 16:19:47 2010 From: BJLejeune at colled.msstate.edu (B.J. LeJeune) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:19:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: <4CA5C3D3020000F0000F0827@mailhost.groupwise.msstate.edu> To simulate the shake-n-bake experience on a stove top, I often use a baggie and seasoned bread crumbs or sometimes I make my own chicken covering out of flour and/or crushed up corn flakes and then add my own seasonings . Make sure the chicken is washed and damp before putting it in the baggie - swishing it first in beaten up egg works better with the corn flakes. You can then saute the coated tenders or thin chicken breast slices about 10 minutes in about a tablespoon of olive oil for a read quickie meal. I use either tongs or a fork to turn them in the frying pan. If you use a full chicken breast or a turkey cutlet it takes a little longer. Changing the seasoning changes the meal too - for variety use lemon pepper or basil, or garlic seasonings. BJ >>> Katie Wang 9/30/2010 6:55 PM >>> Hi, Kerry and all, I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! Katie On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for > chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind > doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken > marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the > aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken > product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just > coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in > it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can > get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. > > You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone > else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless > number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or > two ingredients. > > Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you > can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for > "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. > > Arielle > > On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >> From >> Jacob Struiksma >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >> chicken >> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >> >> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken for >> soup. >> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >> >> >> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of >> Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Hi Kerri, >>>> >>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >> microwave. >>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>> >>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>> don't like them. >>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>> again! >>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>> >>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>> 15 second intervals. >>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>> >>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>> >>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>> >>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >>>> >>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>> plain ones. >>>> >>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>> >>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>> more taste. >>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>> >>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>> and experimenting. >>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>> center I went to in state. >>>> >>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>> stuff. >> >>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>> mind first. >>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine >> does. >>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>> you. >>>> >>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>> know what all is there. >>>> >>>> Good luck. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi All! >>>>> >>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>> >>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>> >>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>> >>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>> >>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>> too much butter in? >>>>> >>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>> >>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>> >>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>> are many different types. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>> something >> simple. >>>>> >>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>> >>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>> Kerri >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>> wavecable.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bjlejeune%40colled.msstate.edu From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 16:50:34 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:50:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [AERNet] 2010-2011 Braille Readers Are Leaders Contest Message-ID: Hey all, I'm passing this out. I don't think it was posted previously. I participated last year, and it was tons of fun! Maybe we could form NABS teams or something. Hahaha! Take care all, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From: aernet-bounces at lists.aerbvi.org [mailto:aernet-bounces at lists.aerbvi.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Shaheen Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 7:13 AM To: aernet at lists.aerbvi.org Subject: [AERNet] 2010-2011 Braille Readers Are Leaders Contest Braille Readers Are Leaders Contest 2010-2011 November 1, 2010-January 4, 2011 The National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the National Association to Promote the Use of Braille (NAPUB), and the National Organization of Parents of Blind Children are pleased to announce the 28th annual Braille Readers are Leaders contest for students grades K-12. This contest encourages children around the country to be proud of their ability to read Braille and continually work to improve their skills. As in previous years students will read as many Braille pages as they can in two months (November 1, 2010, through January 4, 2011) to compete for ribbons, cash prizes, and an all-expenses-paid trip to the 2011 NFB national convention in Orlando, Florida. After a successful 2009-2010 adult Braille Readers Are Leaders Contest, NAPUB and the NFB Jernigan Institute are again offering a contest for mature Braille readers. Adults will compete for cash prizes, national recognition, and bragging rights! Teams of two to five participants are welcome to compete in both the K-12 and adult contests again this year. Registration begins October 1, 2010; form your teams, get some interesting reading material, and warm up your fingers! For detailed information about the K-12 and adult contests please visit www.nfb.org/BRAL. Seven Simple Steps 1. Register: fill out the simple online form at www.nfb.org/BRAL to enter the contest. 2. Gather: collect leisure reading material (books, magazines, and whatever else you enjoy reading that has a title, author, and date of publication). 3. Log it: download the spreadsheet at www.nfb.org/BRAL. Save it where you will be able to access it easily, or print it and keep a hard copy log. 4. Read: put your fingers to the paper. 5. Leader Board: update your "Pages Read" on the Leader Board to compete for additional prizes. 6. Letters: contestants competing for a special award must submit at least one letter of recommendation for each award. 7. Turn it in: submit your reading log, special award documentation, and final entry form no later than January 18, 2011, at www.nfb.org/BRAL. Mark your calendar with the important dates below. Important Dates . October 1, 2010: registration for the contest opens and continues through the end of the contest. . November 1, 2010: contest begins, and participants start tracking their reading. . January 4, 2011: Louis Braille's birthday marks the end of the contest and the last day participants can count their pages. . January 18, 2011: all final entry documentation for the regular contest and special awards must be submitted to the NFB Jernigan Institute by midnight. This includes reading logs, letters of nomination, and final entry forms. . March 2011: prizes are mailed out. Paper forms may be requested by e-mail, mail, telephone, or fax from: BrailleReadersAreLeaders at nfb.org, or Braille Readers Are Leaders 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Phone: (410) 659-9314, extension 2293 Fax: (410) 659-5129 From BJLejeune at colled.msstate.edu Fri Oct 1 17:11:00 2010 From: BJLejeune at colled.msstate.edu (B.J. LeJeune) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:11:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for Volunteers In-Reply-To: <4CA5C3D3020000F0000F0827@mailhost.groupwise.msstate.edu> References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> <4CA5C3D3020000F0000F0827@mailhost.groupwise.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <4CA5CFD4020000F0000F0883@mailhost.groupwise.msstate.edu> Research participants needed: The Research & Training Center on Blindness & Low Vision at Mississippi State University is conducting a study to evaluate an instrument to measure career decision self-efficacy among young adults with visual impairments. Participation will only require about 10 minutes of your time, and your responses will help us create a valid measurement tool to use with people who are blind or visually impaired. Your responses will be anonymous. If you are interested in participating, please follow this link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/SJ5FJ2L Thanks for your help. BJ From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 17:20:06 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:20:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Message-ID: greetings, I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the disability community. This being the case, I have two questions: 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to get what you understand to be the organizational point of view. thank you all for your consideration, Darian -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 18:17:42 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99E049A1263F4F608FC00C29E92FD06F@Rufus> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger advocate and icon in terms of work and results. I've always heard of Helen Keller but could honestly not tell you what she accomplished. I think I know more about Annie Sullivan than I do Helen. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? greetings, I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the disability community. This being the case, I have two questions: 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to get what you understand to be the organizational point of view. thank you all for your consideration, Darian -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 19:28:17 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:28:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More Message-ID: FYI. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From: nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lamkin, Seth (by way of David Andrews ) Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:26 PM To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More Pepsi Refresh Dear Friends, On behalf of the National Federation of the Blind, I would like to offer my deepest appreciation to all those who supported our efforts to secure a grant in the Pepsi Refresh project. Over the last two months, the NFB has made great strides in a contest that has featured prominent national organizations, celebrity promotional campaigns, product giveaway incentives, and even notable online political movements. We can be proud of the progress we made through our grassroots efforts and we can look forward to future opportunities through the new partnerships we cultivated. Out of over four hundred and fifty organizations competing for the $250,000 prize, the NFB reached as high as 15th place. However, we were unable to break into the top two--a necessary position to receive funding for the 2011 NFB Youth Slam program. While our Pepsi project has done well enough to roll over into the October competition, we will be focusing our energies on other efforts including our grassroots Meet the Blind Month programs. Most notably, we are excited to unveil a new initiative in the month of October that will support our Imagination Fund and the programs it benefits, including the NFB Youth Slam. Today we are launching the NFB text-to-give program. By encouraging friends, family, and others to text the word BLIND to 85499 you can help us raise critical funds for our programs at the local, state, and national level. Each text message generates a $10 contribution to the NFB for our Imagination Fund. We believe that by concentrating on this new promotion for Meet the Blind Month, we can maximize our resources and receive the greatest benefit for our movement. We are more resolved than ever to find new avenues of promotion and sources of funding for our essential programs for blind children and adults. We all bear witness to the issues facing the nation's blind, and we all are part of the inevitable solution. The time and energies devoted by innumerable volunteers, family, and friends over the last two months is a testament to that fact. Again, we whole-heartedly thank you for your enthusiastic support and commitment as we continue to build a future full of opportunities. Sincerely, Mark A. Riccobono Executive Director, Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 19:35:33 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:35:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought it was an excellent idea, but I'm a little confused as to why we did not pursue this activity in October, at the height of interactions with the community for Meet the Blind Month. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:28 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More FYI. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From: nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lamkin, Seth (by way of David Andrews ) Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:26 PM To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More Pepsi Refresh Dear Friends, On behalf of the National Federation of the Blind, I would like to offer my deepest appreciation to all those who supported our efforts to secure a grant in the Pepsi Refresh project. Over the last two months, the NFB has made great strides in a contest that has featured prominent national organizations, celebrity promotional campaigns, product giveaway incentives, and even notable online political movements. We can be proud of the progress we made through our grassroots efforts and we can look forward to future opportunities through the new partnerships we cultivated. Out of over four hundred and fifty organizations competing for the $250,000 prize, the NFB reached as high as 15th place. However, we were unable to break into the top two--a necessary position to receive funding for the 2011 NFB Youth Slam program. While our Pepsi project has done well enough to roll over into the October competition, we will be focusing our energies on other efforts including our grassroots Meet the Blind Month programs. Most notably, we are excited to unveil a new initiative in the month of October that will support our Imagination Fund and the programs it benefits, including the NFB Youth Slam. Today we are launching the NFB text-to-give program. By encouraging friends, family, and others to text the word BLIND to 85499 you can help us raise critical funds for our programs at the local, state, and national level. Each text message generates a $10 contribution to the NFB for our Imagination Fund. We believe that by concentrating on this new promotion for Meet the Blind Month, we can maximize our resources and receive the greatest benefit for our movement. We are more resolved than ever to find new avenues of promotion and sources of funding for our essential programs for blind children and adults. We all bear witness to the issues facing the nation's blind, and we all are part of the inevitable solution. The time and energies devoted by innumerable volunteers, family, and friends over the last two months is a testament to that fact. Again, we whole-heartedly thank you for your enthusiastic support and commitment as we continue to build a future full of opportunities. Sincerely, Mark A. Riccobono Executive Director, Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From tinadt at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 1 19:40:58 2010 From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (Tina Thomas) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:40:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD download to the Book Sense Message-ID: <002c01cb61a0$938a09f0$ba9e1dd0$@net> Hello fellow students- Do you have experience downloading RFBD daisy files to the book sense? If so, could someone please send me instructions. Thanks in advance and I hope everyone is enjoying their semester and or quarter this fall. Tina From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 19:49:14 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:49:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD download to the Book Sense References: <002c01cb61a0$938a09f0$ba9e1dd0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Tina. No, I don't use RFBD. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Thomas" To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:40 PM Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD download to the Book Sense > Hello fellow students- Do you have experience downloading RFBD daisy > files > to the book sense? If so, could someone please send me instructions. > Thanks > in advance and I hope everyone is enjoying their semester and or quarter > this fall. > > Tina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 20:31:43 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:31:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Message-ID: <4ca6452f.c3e9d80a.4c74.4776@mx.google.com> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then again, she had a life that was typical of a blind woman in her time. Since she was also deaf, she could not do much else in the society she lived in. She was told not to marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase "sexless saint" describing her. Where is that, anyone? I might be wrong. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" Message-ID: <000d01cb61aa$0a44b280$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Joe and everyone, Perhaps it was realized that compromising our position on Web accessibility and teaching a "Dump" habit like tossing agendas aside just to get money to future blind children isn't a very good idea. As for the October promotion I'd like to have more information about the entity behind 85499 before texting anything to it. No one likes being told to text a word to some place without knowing if the entity is legitimate or not. How are we to know if in the process of raising funds for the NFB we're not opening up ourselves to identity theft. I know of others in the organization that have voiced this same concern. More information please. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project andMore I thought it was an excellent idea, but I'm a little confused as to why we did not pursue this activity in October, at the height of interactions with the community for Meet the Blind Month. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:28 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More FYI. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From: nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lamkin, Seth (by way of David Andrews ) Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:26 PM To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More Pepsi Refresh Dear Friends, On behalf of the National Federation of the Blind, I would like to offer my deepest appreciation to all those who supported our efforts to secure a grant in the Pepsi Refresh project. Over the last two months, the NFB has made great strides in a contest that has featured prominent national organizations, celebrity promotional campaigns, product giveaway incentives, and even notable online political movements. We can be proud of the progress we made through our grassroots efforts and we can look forward to future opportunities through the new partnerships we cultivated. Out of over four hundred and fifty organizations competing for the $250,000 prize, the NFB reached as high as 15th place. However, we were unable to break into the top two--a necessary position to receive funding for the 2011 NFB Youth Slam program. While our Pepsi project has done well enough to roll over into the October competition, we will be focusing our energies on other efforts including our grassroots Meet the Blind Month programs. Most notably, we are excited to unveil a new initiative in the month of October that will support our Imagination Fund and the programs it benefits, including the NFB Youth Slam. Today we are launching the NFB text-to-give program. By encouraging friends, family, and others to text the word BLIND to 85499 you can help us raise critical funds for our programs at the local, state, and national level. Each text message generates a $10 contribution to the NFB for our Imagination Fund. We believe that by concentrating on this new promotion for Meet the Blind Month, we can maximize our resources and receive the greatest benefit for our movement. We are more resolved than ever to find new avenues of promotion and sources of funding for our essential programs for blind children and adults. We all bear witness to the issues facing the nation's blind, and we all are part of the inevitable solution. The time and energies devoted by innumerable volunteers, family, and friends over the last two months is a testament to that fact. Again, we whole-heartedly thank you for your enthusiastic support and commitment as we continue to build a future full of opportunities. Sincerely, Mark A. Riccobono Executive Director, Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 21:06:44 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:06:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? References: <4ca6452f.c3e9d80a.4c74.4776@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the blind and deaf comunity! Any Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then again, she had a life that > was typical of a blind woman in her time. Since she was also deaf, she > could not do much else in the society she lived in. She was told not to > marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase "sexless saint" describing > her. Where is that, anyone? I might be wrong. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > I personally think ten'Broek was a larger advocate and icon in terms of > work > and results. I've always heard of Helen Keller but could honestly not > tell > you what she accomplished. I think I know more about Annie Sullivan than > I > do Helen. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > greetings, > > I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to > pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. > Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the > disability community. > This being the case, I have two questions: > 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? > 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? > I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to get what you > understand to be the organizational point of view. > thank you all for your consideration, > Darian > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 21:26:08 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 16:26:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project andMore References: <000d01cb61aa$0a44b280$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1122BFCB4AC74387834910AA38C96502@D3DTZP41> Hello: I would like to know who pays the $10 to the NFB. Does the person doing the texting get a big charge on their phone bill? I think any publicity we send out needs to make clear who pays, otherwise people could get a nasty surprise on their phone bills. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project andMore > Hello Joe and everyone, > > Perhaps it was realized that compromising our position on Web > accessibility and teaching a "Dump" habit like tossing agendas aside just > to > get money to future blind children isn't a very good idea. > > As for the October promotion I'd like to have more information about > the > entity behind 85499 before texting anything to it. No one likes being told > to text a word to some place without knowing if the entity is legitimate > or > not. How are we to know if in the process of raising funds for the NFB > we're > not opening up ourselves to identity theft. I know of others in the > organization that have voiced this same concern. More information please. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project > andMore > > > I thought it was an excellent idea, but I'm a little confused as to why we > did not pursue this activity in October, at the height of interactions > with > the community for Meet the Blind Month. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:28 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh > Project and More > > FYI. > > > > Liz > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > From: nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Lamkin, Seth > (by way of David Andrews ) > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:26 PM > To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org > Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More > > > > Pepsi Refresh > > Dear Friends, > > On behalf of the National Federation of the Blind, I would like > to offer my > deepest appreciation to all those who supported our efforts to secure a > grant in the Pepsi Refresh project. Over the last two months, > the NFB has > made great strides in a contest that has featured prominent national > organizations, celebrity promotional campaigns, product > giveaway incentives, > and even notable online political movements. We can be proud of > the progress > we made through our grassroots efforts and we can look forward to future > opportunities through the new partnerships we cultivated. Out > of over four > hundred and fifty organizations competing for the $250,000 > prize, the NFB > reached as high as 15th place. However, we were unable to break > into the top > two--a necessary position to receive funding for the 2011 NFB Youth Slam > program. > > While our Pepsi project has done well enough to roll over into > the October > competition, we will be focusing our energies on other efforts > including our > grassroots Meet the Blind Month programs. Most notably, we are > excited to > unveil a new initiative in the month of October that will support our > Imagination Fund and the programs it benefits, including the > NFB Youth Slam. > Today we are launching the NFB text-to-give program. By > encouraging friends, > family, and others to text the word BLIND to 85499 you can help us raise > critical funds for our programs at the local, state, and national level. > Each text message generates a $10 contribution to the NFB for our > Imagination Fund. We believe that by concentrating on this new > promotion for > Meet the Blind Month, we can maximize our resources and receive > the greatest > benefit for our movement. > > We are more resolved than ever to find new avenues of promotion > and sources > of funding for our essential programs for blind children and > adults. We all > bear witness to the issues facing the nation's blind, and we > all are part of > the inevitable solution. The time and energies devoted by innumerable > volunteers, family, and friends over the last two months is a > testament to > that fact. Again, we whole-heartedly thank you for your > enthusiastic support > and commitment as we continue to build a future full of opportunities. > > Sincerely, > > Mark A. Riccobono > Executive Director, Jernigan Institute > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From aadkins7 at verizon.net Fri Oct 1 22:16:54 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 18:16:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Blog reminder Message-ID: <5000D4244776411DAC2B13DDAEE5288E@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello to all, I am just reminding everyone to check out this week's Blindness Blog. I have written a blog about how blindness and the kitchen relate. I am hoping some of you will comment with tips as I am less experienced with cooking than with other areas of blindness. Enjoy, and remember to share news about the blog with others who may benefit. Thanks. www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com Anita Adkins From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 23:03:36 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:03:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project andMore In-Reply-To: <1122BFCB4AC74387834910AA38C96502@D3DTZP41> References: <000d01cb61aa$0a44b280$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1122BFCB4AC74387834910AA38C96502@D3DTZP41> Message-ID: Hi All: Last year, the radio station I work for did something similar to this where you texted to give. What happens I believe is you tell the person what the charity is and about it. The person texts and a one-time charge of $10 shows on their next month phone bill. That is it. Kerri On 10/1/10, Robert Jaquiss wrote: > Hello: > > I would like to know who pays the $10 to the NFB. Does the person doing > the texting get a big charge on their phone bill? I think any publicity we > send out needs to make clear who pays, otherwise people could get a nasty > surprise on their phone bills. > > Regards, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project > andMore > > >> Hello Joe and everyone, >> >> Perhaps it was realized that compromising our position on Web >> accessibility and teaching a "Dump" habit like tossing agendas aside just >> to >> get money to future blind children isn't a very good idea. >> >> As for the October promotion I'd like to have more information about >> the >> entity behind 85499 before texting anything to it. No one likes being told >> to text a word to some place without knowing if the entity is legitimate >> or >> not. How are we to know if in the process of raising funds for the NFB >> we're >> not opening up ourselves to identity theft. I know of others in the >> organization that have voiced this same concern. More information please. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project >> andMore >> >> >> I thought it was an excellent idea, but I'm a little confused as to why we >> did not pursue this activity in October, at the height of interactions >> with >> the community for Meet the Blind Month. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:28 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh >> Project and More >> >> FYI. >> >> >> >> Liz >> >> >> >> email: >> >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> >> >> From: nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Lamkin, Seth >> (by way of David Andrews ) >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:26 PM >> To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] Pepsi Refresh Project and More >> >> >> >> Pepsi Refresh >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> On behalf of the National Federation of the Blind, I would like >> to offer my >> deepest appreciation to all those who supported our efforts to secure a >> grant in the Pepsi Refresh project. Over the last two months, >> the NFB has >> made great strides in a contest that has featured prominent national >> organizations, celebrity promotional campaigns, product >> giveaway incentives, >> and even notable online political movements. We can be proud of >> the progress >> we made through our grassroots efforts and we can look forward to future >> opportunities through the new partnerships we cultivated. Out >> of over four >> hundred and fifty organizations competing for the $250,000 >> prize, the NFB >> reached as high as 15th place. However, we were unable to break >> into the top >> two--a necessary position to receive funding for the 2011 NFB Youth Slam >> program. >> >> While our Pepsi project has done well enough to roll over into >> the October >> competition, we will be focusing our energies on other efforts >> including our >> grassroots Meet the Blind Month programs. Most notably, we are >> excited to >> unveil a new initiative in the month of October that will support our >> Imagination Fund and the programs it benefits, including the >> NFB Youth Slam. >> Today we are launching the NFB text-to-give program. By >> encouraging friends, >> family, and others to text the word BLIND to 85499 you can help us raise >> critical funds for our programs at the local, state, and national level. >> Each text message generates a $10 contribution to the NFB for our >> Imagination Fund. We believe that by concentrating on this new >> promotion for >> Meet the Blind Month, we can maximize our resources and receive >> the greatest >> benefit for our movement. >> >> We are more resolved than ever to find new avenues of promotion >> and sources >> of funding for our essential programs for blind children and >> adults. We all >> bear witness to the issues facing the nation's blind, and we >> all are part of >> the inevitable solution. The time and energies devoted by innumerable >> volunteers, family, and friends over the last two months is a >> testament to >> that fact. Again, we whole-heartedly thank you for your >> enthusiastic support >> and commitment as we continue to build a future full of opportunities. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mark A. Riccobono >> Executive Director, Jernigan Institute >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 00:13:20 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:13:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: References: <4ca6452f.c3e9d80a.4c74.4776@mx.google.com> Message-ID: You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, but Helen needed a time to shine. Beth On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the blind and deaf comunity! Any > Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then again, she had a life that >> was typical of a blind woman in her time. Since she was also deaf, she >> could not do much else in the society she lived in. She was told not to >> marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase "sexless saint" describing >> her. Where is that, anyone? I might be wrong. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger advocate and icon in terms of >> work >> and results. I've always heard of Helen Keller but could honestly not >> tell >> you what she accomplished. I think I know more about Annie Sullivan than >> I >> do Helen. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> greetings, >> >> I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to >> pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. >> Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the >> disability community. >> This being the case, I have two questions: >> 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? >> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? >> I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to get what you >> understand to be the organizational point of view. >> thank you all for your consideration, >> Darian >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> >> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 00:24:35 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:24:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: References: <4ca6452f.c3e9d80a.4c74.4776@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Who's Any Seliven? Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, but Helen needed a time to shine. Beth On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the blind and deaf comunity! Any > Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then again, she had a life that >> was typical of a blind woman in her time. Since she was also deaf, she >> could not do much else in the society she lived in. She was told not to >> marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase "sexless saint" describing >> her. Where is that, anyone? I might be wrong. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger advocate and icon in terms of >> work >> and results. I've always heard of Helen Keller but could honestly not >> tell >> you what she accomplished. I think I know more about Annie Sullivan than >> I >> do Helen. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> greetings, >> >> I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to >> pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. >> Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the >> disability community. >> This being the case, I have two questions: >> 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? >> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? >> I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to get what you >> understand to be the organizational point of view. >> thank you all for your consideration, >> Darian >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> >> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj acksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues isloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 01:49:57 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:49:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: References: <4ca6452f.c3e9d80a.4c74.4776@mx.google.com> Message-ID: :) Anne's lost twin sister maybe? I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a variety of different places- disability rights, advocating socialism (I'll look this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti world wars. So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't agree with everything she said, but her example of stepping forward and speaking up is something I can respect and look up to. That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten Broek, Jernigan and Maurer have probably done more in the field of blindness specificly. But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or Anne Sulivan in the slightest. Best regards, Kirt On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Who's Any Seliven? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, but Helen needed a > time to shine. > Beth > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the blind and > deaf comunity! Any >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then again, she had > a life that >>> was typical of a blind woman in her time. Since she was > also deaf, she >>> could not do much else in the society she lived in. She was > told not to >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase "sexless > saint" describing >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I might be wrong. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger advocate and icon > in terms of >>> work >>> and results. I've always heard of Helen Keller but could > honestly not >>> tell >>> you what she accomplished. I think I know more about Annie > Sullivan than >>> I >>> do Helen. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> >>> greetings, >>> >>> I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to >>> pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the >>> disability community. >>> This being the case, I have two questions: >>> 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? >>> I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to > get what you >>> understand to be the organizational point of view. >>> thank you all for your consideration, >>> Darian >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Darian Smith >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> >>> >>> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >>> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj > acksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues > isloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Oct 2 01:31:12 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 21:31:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The person meant Annie. It was simply a typo. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:25 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Who's Any Seliven? Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, but Helen needed a time to shine. Beth On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the blind and deaf comunity! Any > Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then again, she had a life that >> was typical of a blind woman in her time. Since she was also deaf, she >> could not do much else in the society she lived in. She was told not to >> marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase "sexless saint" describing >> her. Where is that, anyone? I might be wrong. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger advocate and icon in terms of >> work >> and results. I've always heard of Helen Keller but could honestly not >> tell >> you what she accomplished. I think I know more about Annie Sullivan than >> I >> do Helen. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> greetings, >> >> I was reading something and it sparked a question that I want to >> pose to the list for some consideration and conversation. >> Helen Keller was considered a rather significant activest within the >> disability community. >> This being the case, I have two questions: >> 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ Advocate? >> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's stance on this/her? >> I pose this as two questions to get your thoughts and to get what you >> understand to be the organizational point of view. >> thank you all for your consideration, >> Darian >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> >> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj acksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues isloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 2 04:48:36 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 21:48:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley><6D9BD62F04E04EBC90B2DB8EE591DA73@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <58E782FD1B9D4C36AA1D9FD9D4448F21@windows4c0ed96> Dear Carey, It has been a while, but I have used often in the past a special accessible Safeway Site to go up and down the aisles on line. It will take me a while to find the link to the site, which was designed especially for the blind, since I have not used it for a while. I will post a link to this site as soon as I can find it. It did give me ideas about my options and what products are out there. When I first discovered the accessible Safeway site, it had been so long since I had been able to browse a supermarket as when my sight was perfect a couple of decades ago, that I just sat and actually went through all the different flavors of ice cream available, about three hundred, just for the sheer sense of delight at being able to do so. On another point, I note on this super thread some talk of chicken tender loins. It is great to buy the tender loins to have a flat chicken breast that will cook evenly, but these tenderloins are a bit expensive for me and sometimes they seem overly processed. So one tip I offer here is to make your own tenderloins. If a chicken breast is kind of uneven, as in thicker in the middle and thinner on the edges, it may not cook evenly on a grill or in a stir fry. So to flatten a chicken breast I just slip one at a time into a zip lock freezer or food storage bag, and flatten the breast by lightly pounding it with the bottom of a drinking glass or similar item. Or you can use anything that has a flat surface. You are not tenderizing it, but just reshaping it to cook more evenly. The bag is used of course so the whole process is not messy and splattery. You usually remove the bones first, which you can do even with just some pressure and your fingers and a steak knife. And sometimes even chicken breasts sold boneless and skinless can need some flattening. Cooking is such a zen like break when you are studying. Best, Ginnie -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:18 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! Hi Nicole and All: Safeway looks good, but I can't figure out how to browse? I typed in my zipcode and there isn't one in my area...so I just typed in the keyword search "chicken marinade" and a bunch of recipes for different home-made marinades came up. What I want is a list of bottled/already-made marinades sold in popular stores such as Kroger or walmart so when I go I have some idea of what to get. On doing a google search for "browsing grocery store online" I got walmart.com grocery but currently it says it's unavailable for maintinence. What about amazon grocery? I don't think there is any delivery grocery services where I live (although that would be nice) so I'm not looking necessairily for online grocery shopping per say but just a way to see what some of the items in the isles are so I can get a better idea of what to get when I do go to the store that way I don't have to take up the customer service person's time browsing and having no clue what I want. Am I missing something with the Safeway site? Can you browse their groceries without being a member or having a store in your area? What about Walmart.com grocery and amazon.com grocery? Would those be my best bet for what I'm looking for? I didn't see anything like this on Kroger.com except for their weekly ads! Kerri On 10/1/10, Katie Wang wrote: > Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now > that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an > option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the > microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that > very soon. This is a great thread:) > Katie > > > On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping online. >> >> As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things while >> an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, and >> sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have >> you >> ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that except >> for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than >>> bakes as a toaster oven does. >>> >>> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes >>> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for >>> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the >>> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman >>> lol. >>> >>> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for >>> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have >>> never done this. >>> >>> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I >>> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm >>> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online >>> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking >>> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed >>> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this >>> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety >>> online...that would help a ton. >>> >>> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I >>> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a >>> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already >>> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people >>> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort >>> of on my own. >>> >>> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I >>> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the >>> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, >>> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another >>> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted >>> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it >>> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is >>> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found >>> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making >>> hamburger helper forever now! >>> >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi, Kerry and all, >>>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >>>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >>>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >>>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >>>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >>>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>>>> >>>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >>>>> two ingredients. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>>>> From >>>>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>>>> chicken >>>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>>>>> for >>>>>> soup. >>>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>>>> Association >>>>>> of >>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates >>>>>>>> grease >>>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>>>> microwave. >>>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. >>>>>>>> Check >>>>>>>> again! >>>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread >>>>>>>> crumbs. >>>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>>>>> more taste. >>>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store >>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the >>>>>>>> rehab >>>>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> mind first. >>>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>>>> Mine >>>>>> does. >>>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >>>>>>>> Students >>>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes >>>>>>>>> stirring >>>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the >>>>>>>>> eggs. >>>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. >>>>>>>>> Should >>>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the >>>>>>>>> George >>>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>> simple. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n et From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 07:52:17 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 00:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <625403.90417.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The thing that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to get to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did not marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that blind people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved alot more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to fame, she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that society has about blindness today. However, she is just one leader in the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another one is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness then Hellen Keller. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM > :)  Anne's lost twin sister > maybe? >   I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a > variety of > different places- disability rights, advocating socialism > (I'll look > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti world > wars. > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist.  I don't agree > with everything > she said, but her example of stepping forward and speaking > up is > something I can respect and look up to. >   That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten > Broek, Jernigan and > Maurer have probably done more in the field of blindness > specificly. > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or Anne > Sulivan in the > slightest. >   Best regards, > Kirt > > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco > wrote: > > Who's Any Seliven? > > > > Joe > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some > turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Beth > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > > > You're right.  Annie Sullivat proved something, > but Helen needed a > > time to shine. > > Beth > > > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur > wrote: > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the > blind and > > deaf comunity! Any > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Beth" > >> To: ; > "National Association of Blind > > Students mailing > >> list" > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > >> > >> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then > again, she had > > a life that > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her > time.  Since she was > > also deaf, she > >>> could not do much else in the society she > lived in.  She was > > told not to > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase > "sexless > > saint" describing > >>> her.  Where is that, anyone?  I > might be wrong. > >>> Beth > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" > >>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > >>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger > advocate and icon > > in terms of > >>> work > >>> and results.  I've always heard of Helen > Keller but could > > honestly not > >>> tell > >>> you what she accomplished.  I think I > know more about Annie > > Sullivan than > >>> I > >>> do Helen. > >>> > >>> Joe > >>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: > some turn up > > their sleeves, > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn > up at all."--Sam Ewing > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Darian Smith > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > >>> > >>> greetings, > >>> > >>> I  was reading something and  it > sparked a question that I want to > >>> pose to the list for some consideration and > conversation. > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather > significant activest within the > >>> disability community. > >>> This being the case, I have two questions: > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ > Advocate? > >>> 2. what do we know to be  the NFB's > stance on this/her? > >>> I pose this  as two questions to get your > thoughts and to > > get what you > >>> understand to be the organizational point of > view. > >>> thank you all for  your consideration, > >>>  Darian > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Darian Smith > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > >>> > >>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a spiritual > experience. We are > >>> spiritual beings having a human experience." - > Teilhard de Chardin > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account > >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > >>> %40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > >>> sloose%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj > > acksandefur%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues > > isloose%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account > > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 14:13:38 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:13:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: <625403.90417.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <625403.90417.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B835E1B9D4F4A43B69D8AA2945C7B3A@Rufus> Anmol, Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only because so often it takes years to appreciate the contributions of a leader. I thought Jernigan though had some good grassroots achievements. TenBroek is still my favorite guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her achievements and agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that I completely agree with her political philosophy, a little too socially radical for my taste, but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of itself. You don't have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge their greatness. I think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus tenBroek is how they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more willing to work with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me for reinforcing such an isolationist approach in the disability community. I believe it is possible to maintain our core philosophy and still work with coalitions to get things accomplished. Take, for example, the recent Twenty-first Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think it's a pretty big deal, and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to incorporate our technology bill of rights into something like that rather than going at it alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone who voluntarily puts themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. Best, Joe “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The thing that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to get to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did not marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that blind people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved alot more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to fame, she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that society has about blindness today. However, she is just one leader in the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another one is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness then Hellen Keller. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM > :)  Anne's lost twin sister > maybe? >   I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a > variety of > different places- disability rights, advocating socialism > (I'll look > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti world > wars. > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist.  I don't agree > with everything > she said, but her example of stepping forward and speaking > up is > something I can respect and look up to. >   That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten > Broek, Jernigan and > Maurer have probably done more in the field of blindness > specificly. > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or Anne > Sulivan in the > slightest. >   Best regards, > Kirt > > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco > wrote: > > Who's Any Seliven? > > > > Joe > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some > turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Beth > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > > > You're right.  Annie Sullivat proved something, > but Helen needed a > > time to shine. > > Beth > > > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur > wrote: > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for the > blind and > > deaf comunity! Any > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Beth" > >> To: ; > "National Association of Blind > > Students mailing > >> list" > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > >> > >> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but then > again, she had > > a life that > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her > time.  Since she was > > also deaf, she > >>> could not do much else in the society she > lived in.  She was > > told not to > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a phrase > "sexless > > saint" describing > >>> her.  Where is that, anyone?  I > might be wrong. > >>> Beth > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" > >>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 -0400 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > >>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a larger > advocate and icon > > in terms of > >>> work > >>> and results.  I've always heard of Helen > Keller but could > > honestly not > >>> tell > >>> you what she accomplished.  I think I > know more about Annie > > Sullivan than > >>> I > >>> do Helen. > >>> > >>> Joe > >>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: > some turn up > > their sleeves, > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn > up at all."--Sam Ewing > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Darian Smith > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > >>> > >>> greetings, > >>> > >>> I  was reading something and  it > sparked a question that I want to > >>> pose to the list for some consideration and > conversation. > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather > significant activest within the > >>> disability community. > >>> This being the case, I have two questions: > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an activest/ > Advocate? > >>> 2. what do we know to be  the NFB's > stance on this/her? > >>> I pose this  as two questions to get your > thoughts and to > > get what you > >>> understand to be the organizational point of > view. > >>> thank you all for  your consideration, > >>>  Darian > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Darian Smith > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > >>> > >>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a spiritual > experience. We are > >>> spiritual beings having a human experience." - > Teilhard de Chardin > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account > >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > >>> %40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > >>> sloose%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj > > acksandefur%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues > > isloose%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account > > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra zydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh atia%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 14:24:17 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:24:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling Message-ID: <3EB004B700DD441FA8F7214CF3A3AC99@Rufus> Okay, so forgive the jerk nature of this post, but the recent thread on Helen Keller has given rise to one of my largest pet peeves on the list. If you're not going to use spell-check to double check your writing, at least try to spell people's names correctly. I find it rude when people do not bother to at least make sure they're spelling people's names accurately. It may sound like a small thing. This is not the most formal of public forums, but when so many of the subscribers are students on the verge of employment, it just makes sense to try to practice good habits in all our written communication. It's Helen Keller, not Hellen Killer, and it's Annie or Anne Sullivan, not Any Seliven. I mean, gees. You wouldn't like it if people got your name all wrong. I'm just saying, practice like it's the real deal! Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 15:16:35 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 08:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: <1B835E1B9D4F4A43B69D8AA2945C7B3A@Rufus> Message-ID: <728579.82783.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Joe, I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and brought blindness to where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that TenBroek is my favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who first brought blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer organization like the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable achievement in a erra before the instent communication that we are so use to today. Whats more increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do anything for yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved the fame that Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but like you said we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind community. You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely with other disability organizations instead of going at it alone and frankly since blind people are a large population of the disability community we would most likely achieve what we want for the blind community and maybe more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and ceveral groups trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at it alone is not always the best policy. Just some of my thoughts. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > From: Joe Orozco > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM > Anmol, > > Really?  I don't know about Maurer, but this is only > because so often it > takes years to appreciate the contributions of a > leader.  I thought Jernigan > though had some good grassroots achievements.  > TenBroek is still my favorite > guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her > achievements and > agree she was a commendable figure.  I don't know that > I completely agree > with her political philosophy, a little too socially > radical for my taste, > but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of > itself.  You don't > have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge > their greatness.  I > think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus > tenBroek is how > they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more > willing to work > with other groups.  Maurer loses major points for me > for reinforcing such an > isolationist approach in the disability community.  I > believe it is possible > to maintain our core philosophy and still work with > coalitions to get things > accomplished.  Take, for example, the recent > Twenty-first Century > Communications and Video Accessibility Act.  I think > it's a pretty big deal, > and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to > incorporate our > technology bill of rights into something like that rather > than going at it > alone.  Here again though, I have to respect anyone > who voluntarily puts > themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. > > Best, > > Joe > > “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn > up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all.”--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The > thing > that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to > get > to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did > not > marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that > blind > people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved > alot > more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to > fame, > she  has brought the somewhat possative attitude that > society > has about blindness  today. However, she is just one > leader in > the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another > one > is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. > > Jernigan  and Dr. more have done more for blindness > then Hellen Keller. > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > > sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; > but it > is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring > wrote: > > > From: Kirt Manwaring > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, > "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM > > :)  Anne's lost twin sister > > maybe? > >   I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a > > variety of > > different places- disability rights, advocating > socialism > > (I'll look > > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti > world > > wars. > > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist.  I don't > agree > > with everything > > she said, but her example of stepping forward and > speaking > > up is > > something I can respect and look up to. > >   That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten > > Broek, Jernigan and > > Maurer have probably done more in the field of > blindness > > specificly. > > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or > Anne > > Sulivan in the > > slightest. > >   Best regards, > > Kirt > > > > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco > > wrote: > > > Who's Any Seliven? > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: > some > > turn up their sleeves, > > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up > at > > all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > > On Behalf Of Beth > > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM > > > To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing > > list > > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > activest? > > > > > > You're right.  Annie Sullivat proved something, > > but Helen needed a > > > time to shine. > > > Beth > > > > > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur > > wrote: > > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for > the > > blind and > > > deaf comunity! Any > > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Beth" > > >> To: ; > > "National Association of Blind > > > Students mailing > > >> list" > > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > > activest? > > >> > > >> > > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but > then > > again, she had > > > a life that > > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her > > time.  Since she was > > > also deaf, she > > >>> could not do much else in the society > she > > lived in.  She was > > > told not to > > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a > phrase > > "sexless > > > saint" describing > > >>> her.  Where is that, anyone?  I > > might be wrong. > > >>> Beth > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind > Students > > mailing list'" > > >>> > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 > -0400 > > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > > activest? > > >>> > > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a > larger > > advocate and icon > > > in terms of > > >>> work > > >>> and results.  I've always heard of > Helen > > Keller but could > > > honestly not > > >>> tell > > >>> you what she accomplished.  I think I > > know more about Annie > > > Sullivan than > > >>> I > > >>> do Helen. > > >>> > > >>> Joe > > >>> > > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of > people: > > some turn up > > > their sleeves, > > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't > turn > > up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > > On Behalf Of Darian Smith > > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM > > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the > > activest? > > >>> > > >>> greetings, > > >>> > > >>> I  was reading something and  it > > sparked a question that I want to > > >>> pose to the list for some consideration > and > > conversation. > > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather > > significant activest within the > > >>> disability community. > > >>> This being the case, I have two > questions: > > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an > activest/ > > Advocate? > > >>> 2. what do we know to be  the NFB's > > stance on this/her? > > >>> I pose this  as two questions to get > your > > thoughts and to > > > get what you > > >>> understand to be the organizational point > of > > view. > > >>> thank you all for  your consideration, > > >>>  Darian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Darian Smith > > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth > > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> "We are not human beings having a > spiritual > > experience. We are > > >>> spiritual beings having a human > experience." - > > Teilhard de Chardin > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or > > get your account > > >>> info for nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > >>> %40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or > > get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > > >>> sloose%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or > > get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj > > > acksandefur%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get > > your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues > > > isloose%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your > > account > > > info for nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your > > account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra > zydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh > atia%40yahoo.com > > > > >       > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 17:54:48 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:54:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? References: <728579.82783.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50CB13141A0E46C18E473F5E6335A360@Dezman> However, I think the NFB is starting to form alliances with other groups such as the case with the Reading Rights Coalition. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > Joe, > I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and brought blindness to > where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more > successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that TenBroek is my > favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who first brought > blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer organization like > the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable achievement in a erra > before the instent communication that we are so use to today. Whats more > increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the > attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do anything for > yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved the fame that > Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? > Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but like you said > we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. > Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind community. > You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely with > other disability organizations instead of going at it alone and frankly > since blind people are a large population of the disability community we > would most likely achieve what we want for the blind community and maybe > more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and ceveral groups > trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at it alone is > not always the best policy. > Just some of my thoughts. > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> From: Joe Orozco >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM >> Anmol, >> >> Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only >> because so often it >> takes years to appreciate the contributions of a >> leader. I thought Jernigan >> though had some good grassroots achievements. >> TenBroek is still my favorite >> guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her >> achievements and >> agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that >> I completely agree >> with her political philosophy, a little too socially >> radical for my taste, >> but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of >> itself. You don't >> have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge >> their greatness. I >> think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus >> tenBroek is how >> they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more >> willing to work >> with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me >> for reinforcing such an >> isolationist approach in the disability community. I >> believe it is possible >> to maintain our core philosophy and still work with >> coalitions to get things >> accomplished. Take, for example, the recent >> Twenty-first Century >> Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think >> it's a pretty big deal, >> and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to >> incorporate our >> technology bill of rights into something like that rather >> than going at it >> alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone >> who voluntarily puts >> themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn >> up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all.”--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The >> thing >> that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to >> get >> to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did >> not >> marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that >> blind >> people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved >> alot >> more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to >> fame, >> she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that >> society >> has about blindness today. However, she is just one >> leader in >> the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another >> one >> is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. >> >> Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness >> then Hellen Keller. >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> >> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; >> but it >> is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring >> wrote: >> >> > From: Kirt Manwaring >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, >> "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >> > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM >> > :) Anne's lost twin sister >> > maybe? >> > I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a >> > variety of >> > different places- disability rights, advocating >> socialism >> > (I'll look >> > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti >> world >> > wars. >> > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't >> agree >> > with everything >> > she said, but her example of stepping forward and >> speaking >> > up is >> > something I can respect and look up to. >> > That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten >> > Broek, Jernigan and >> > Maurer have probably done more in the field of >> blindness >> > specificly. >> > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or >> Anne >> > Sulivan in the >> > slightest. >> > Best regards, >> > Kirt >> > >> > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco >> > wrote: >> > > Who's Any Seliven? >> > > >> > > Joe >> > > >> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: >> some >> > turn up their sleeves, >> > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >> at >> > all."--Sam Ewing >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> > On Behalf Of Beth >> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM >> > > To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> > list >> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >> activest? >> > > >> > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, >> > but Helen needed a >> > > time to shine. >> > > Beth >> > > >> > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur >> > wrote: >> > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for >> the >> > blind and >> > > deaf comunity! Any >> > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> From: "Beth" >> > >> To: ; >> > "National Association of Blind >> > > Students mailing >> > >> list" >> > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >> > activest? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but >> then >> > again, she had >> > > a life that >> > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her >> > time. Since she was >> > > also deaf, she >> > >>> could not do much else in the society >> she >> > lived in. She was >> > > told not to >> > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a >> phrase >> > "sexless >> > > saint" describing >> > >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I >> > might be wrong. >> > >>> Beth >> > >>> >> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" > > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind >> Students >> > mailing list'" >> > >>> > > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 >> -0400 >> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >> > activest? >> > >>> >> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a >> larger >> > advocate and icon >> > > in terms of >> > >>> work >> > >>> and results. I've always heard of >> Helen >> > Keller but could >> > > honestly not >> > >>> tell >> > >>> you what she accomplished. I think I >> > know more about Annie >> > > Sullivan than >> > >>> I >> > >>> do Helen. >> > >>> >> > >>> Joe >> > >>> >> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of >> people: >> > some turn up >> > > their sleeves, >> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't >> turn >> > up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >>> >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> > On Behalf Of Darian Smith >> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >> > activest? >> > >>> >> > >>> greetings, >> > >>> >> > >>> I was reading something and it >> > sparked a question that I want to >> > >>> pose to the list for some consideration >> and >> > conversation. >> > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather >> > significant activest within the >> > >>> disability community. >> > >>> This being the case, I have two >> questions: >> > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an >> activest/ >> > Advocate? >> > >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's >> > stance on this/her? >> > >>> I pose this as two questions to get >> your >> > thoughts and to >> > > get what you >> > >>> understand to be the organizational point >> of >> > view. >> > >>> thank you all for your consideration, >> > >>> Darian >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> Darian Smith >> > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> "We are not human beings having a >> spiritual >> > experience. We are >> > >>> spiritual beings having a human >> experience." - >> > Teilhard de Chardin >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or >> > get your account >> > >>> info for nabs-l: >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> > >>> %40gmail.com >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or >> > get your account info for >> > >>> nabs-l: >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or >> > get your account info for >> > >>> nabs-l: >> > >>> >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj >> > > acksandefur%40gmail.com >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> nabs-l mailing list >> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get >> > your account info for >> > >> nabs-l: >> > >> >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >> > > isloose%40gmail.com >> > >> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your >> > account >> > > info for nabs-l: >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> > > %40gmail.com >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your >> > account info for >> > > nabs-l: >> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >> zydude%40gmail.com >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> > account info for nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh >> atia%40yahoo.com >> > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 18:45:08 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:45:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] #o.t Well I'm frustrated this is just wonderful: might need some help Message-ID: I might need a bit of help from some of you, please. I did not make it to on campus housing so I need to find a place to live that is near the berklee college of music in boston, ma. I put up a message on the berklee message board, but am trying to get my feelers out. if anyone can assist me I'd be grateful. I'm probably going to post this to several lists so those who are with me on several lists don't be alarmed. Thanks and be blessed. Sarah Alawami MSN: marrie12 at gmail.com aim: marrie12 at gmail.com: website: http://music.marrie.org face book: facebook.com/marrie youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 Podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com Mobile site for podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com/mobile/ From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 18:46:34 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:46:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] possibly #o.t Well I'm frustrated this is just wonderful: might need some help Message-ID: <0F596012-7609-4150-BEA0-3D305CA69DB7@gmail.com> Well this is a wonderful way to make an intro. I did not plan this appening. If someone could contact me off list so as not to cludder that's just great with me. message begins here. I might need a bit of help from some of you, please. I did not make it to on campus housing so I need to find a place to live that is near the berklee college of music in boston, ma starting in jan of 2011. I put up a message on the berklee message board, but am trying to get my feelers out. if anyone can assist me I'd be grateful. I'm probably going to post this to several lists so those who are with me on several lists don't be alarmed. Thanks and be blessed. Sarah Alawami MSN: marrie12 at gmail.com aim: marrie12 at gmail.com: website: http://music.marrie.org face book: facebook.com/marrie youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 Podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com Mobile site for podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com/mobile/ From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 18:49:08 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:49:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] possibly #o.t Well I'm frustrated this is just wonderful: might need some help In-Reply-To: <0F596012-7609-4150-BEA0-3D305CA69DB7@gmail.com> References: <0F596012-7609-4150-BEA0-3D305CA69DB7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <12F58C2D-3C47-4C40-9888-CCCC4D94E9A9@gmail.com> Sorry about the duplicate message. that was meant for another list, the duplicate was anyways. That's what happens when you're half awake. I don't contribute much but the day I decide to all Hades breaks loose. lol! Sorry all. Sarah Alawami MSN: marrie12 at gmail.com aim: marrie12 at gmail.com: website: http://music.marrie.org face book: facebook.com/marrie youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 Podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com Mobile site for podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com/mobile/ From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Oct 2 21:02:19 2010 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 15:02:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] computer programming? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA79DDB.1020308@pcdesk.net> Corey, I have experience programming in both C and C++. I've done it in a private setting, an academic setting, and an industrial setting. C is a powerful language, but a bit tricky to program in properly. C++ is a bit easier, but still tricky at times. This makes sense because both languages allow you to get in there and fiddle with the actual details of how your program runs. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them. -- They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: $ ar m God ar: creating God There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God really does exist! Joseph C. Lininger, On 9/29/2010 6:28 PM, Corey Cook wrote: > Do any of you have any experience with programming in the c programming > language? > Also thoughts on doing math when you don't have access to Braille materials? > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 22:03:46 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 16:03:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling In-Reply-To: <3EB004B700DD441FA8F7214CF3A3AC99@Rufus> References: <3EB004B700DD441FA8F7214CF3A3AC99@Rufus> Message-ID: I agree. I have some beef with misspelling people's names, like I saw the word "weird" misspelled. Someone spelled it "wierd." Well, even if the rule "I before E except after c." applies here, it has an exception in the word weird. Beth On 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Okay, so forgive the jerk nature of this post, but the recent thread on > Helen Keller has given rise to one of my largest pet peeves on the list. If > you're not going to use spell-check to double check your writing, at least > try to spell people's names correctly. I find it rude when people do not > bother to at least make sure they're spelling people's names accurately. It > may sound like a small thing. This is not the most formal of public forums, > but when so many of the subscribers are students on the verge of employment, > it just makes sense to try to practice good habits in all our written > communication. It's Helen Keller, not Hellen Killer, and it's Annie or Anne > Sullivan, not Any Seliven. I mean, gees. You wouldn't like it if people > got your name all wrong. I'm just saying, practice like it's the real deal! > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Oct 2 22:14:35 2010 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 16:14:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling In-Reply-To: References: <3EB004B700DD441FA8F7214CF3A3AC99@Rufus> Message-ID: <4CA7AECB.4040905@pcdesk.net> The way I remember that one, or used to before it got engrained in my head is: weird is a weird word. -- They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: $ ar m God ar: creating God There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God really does exist! Joseph C. Lininger, On 10/2/2010 4:03 PM, Beth wrote: > I agree. I have some beef with misspelling people's names, like I saw > the word "weird" misspelled. Someone spelled it "wierd." Well, even > if the rule "I before E except after c." applies here, it has an > exception in the word weird. > Beth > > On 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Okay, so forgive the jerk nature of this post, but the recent thread on >> Helen Keller has given rise to one of my largest pet peeves on the list. If >> you're not going to use spell-check to double check your writing, at least >> try to spell people's names correctly. I find it rude when people do not >> bother to at least make sure they're spelling people's names accurately. It >> may sound like a small thing. This is not the most formal of public forums, >> but when so many of the subscribers are students on the verge of employment, >> it just makes sense to try to practice good habits in all our written >> communication. It's Helen Keller, not Hellen Killer, and it's Annie or Anne >> Sullivan, not Any Seliven. I mean, gees. You wouldn't like it if people >> got your name all wrong. I'm just saying, practice like it's the real deal! >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Oct 2 22:59:04 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 15:59:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling References: <3EB004B700DD441FA8F7214CF3A3AC99@Rufus> Message-ID: Not to mention weight, height, weigh, eight, and probably some others that I missed. Rules were made to be broken, that is, at least in spelling (but not in other things). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling >I agree. I have some beef with misspelling people's names, like I saw > the word "weird" misspelled. Someone spelled it "wierd." Well, even > if the rule "I before E except after c." applies here, it has an > exception in the word weird. > Beth > > On 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Okay, so forgive the jerk nature of this post, but the recent thread on >> Helen Keller has given rise to one of my largest pet peeves on the list. >> If >> you're not going to use spell-check to double check your writing, at >> least >> try to spell people's names correctly. I find it rude when people do not >> bother to at least make sure they're spelling people's names accurately. >> It >> may sound like a small thing. This is not the most formal of public >> forums, >> but when so many of the subscribers are students on the verge of >> employment, >> it just makes sense to try to practice good habits in all our written >> communication. It's Helen Keller, not Hellen Killer, and it's Annie or >> Anne >> Sullivan, not Any Seliven. I mean, gees. You wouldn't like it if people >> got your name all wrong. I'm just saying, practice like it's the real >> deal! >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 23:09:51 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 16:09:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs fundraising conference call: washington seminar auction items Message-ID: Greetings Nabsters The Nabs board is busily making plans to aquire auction items for this January’s Washington seminar, and is seeking assistance from you! If you know of any contacts, or just want to help out with gathering contacts and items, you are welcome to join us on an organizing conference call tomorrow. Date: 10/3/10 Time:5:30 p.m. EST Where: Conference call (712) 775-7100 passcode”257963 -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 23:12:32 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 16:12:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling In-Reply-To: References: <3EB004B700DD441FA8F7214CF3A3AC99@Rufus> Message-ID: <299BD64F-672F-4A91-B2F2-6F7917096396@gmail.com> How about neighbor and know and knew. S On Oct 2, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Not to mention weight, height, weigh, eight, and probably some others that I missed. Rules were made to be broken, that is, at least in spelling (but not in other things). > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Beef with Misspelling > > >> I agree. I have some beef with misspelling people's names, like I saw >> the word "weird" misspelled. Someone spelled it "wierd." Well, even >> if the rule "I before E except after c." applies here, it has an >> exception in the word weird. >> Beth >> >> On 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> Okay, so forgive the jerk nature of this post, but the recent thread on >>> Helen Keller has given rise to one of my largest pet peeves on the list. If >>> you're not going to use spell-check to double check your writing, at least >>> try to spell people's names correctly. I find it rude when people do not >>> bother to at least make sure they're spelling people's names accurately. It >>> may sound like a small thing. This is not the most formal of public forums, >>> but when so many of the subscribers are students on the verge of employment, >>> it just makes sense to try to practice good habits in all our written >>> communication. It's Helen Keller, not Hellen Killer, and it's Annie or Anne >>> Sullivan, not Any Seliven. I mean, gees. You wouldn't like it if people >>> got your name all wrong. I'm just saying, practice like it's the real deal! >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 23:26:58 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:26:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} O/T FW: TODAY'S MILLION-DOLLAR IDEA: Replacing Annoying CAPTCHA Codes With Advertisements Message-ID: <6B85151E4C1944AEB5A000D15FD1A032@Rufus> This one's for Peter Donahue, who will no doubt have an even bigger conniption about the whole mess. Yet, to a point, something really ought to be done to keep accessibility at the forefront of all innovation.--Joe Subject: TODAY'S MILLION-DOLLAR IDEA: Replacing Annoying CAPTCHA Codes With Advertisements TODAY'S MILLION-DOLLAR IDEA: Replacing Annoying CAPTCHA Codes With Advertisements Yesterday we introduced War Room 's newest feature, "Daily Million-Dollar Idea." In case you don't know the deal, here's what we're doing: Everyone has business ideas stashed away in their brains, but they're often afraid to share them. But if it's an idea you really want to go for, you NEED outside opinions. Submit your flash of brilliance to War Room. We'll post the ones we think are promising and you'll get other readers' opinions on whether your concept is absolutely brilliant or a complete bomb. And here is today's million-dollar idea: The Idea: Solve Media Entrepreneur: Ari Jacoby, Founder and CEO, Solve Media What It Is: You know those boxes of faded letters you sometimes have to type in to access a site? Originally designed to prevent "malicious programs" from invading website content, Solve Media has transformed them into an ad unit. solve media Instead of seeing randomly generated letters, you are given a phrase that advertises a product or service. This way, you learn about a brand - studies report that people remember phrases more when they repeat them - and online content remains free. At the very least, Mark Suster is impressed with it. He writes: "I think we've all come to accept that "[ad] banner blindness" is a real phenomenon. Sometimes you see solutions and immediately know they just make sense. Solve Media is that." Online Surveys & Market Research Have a million dollar idea of your own? Send it to tips at businessinsider.com and see if it stands up to our critical readers. Just be sure to include your name and a photo of yourself, or your idea, in the email. Join the conversation about this story > See Also: * Introducing: The Daily Million-Dollar Idea * Daily Million-Dollar Idea: Thick Buttons * The Only 10 Reasons You Should See Wall Street 2 Source: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/typepad/alleyinsider/silicon_alley_insider/~3 /HZK5nqbGuLk/daily-million-dollar-idea-solve-media-2010-9 Login With Facebook | Login With Twitter | Login | Register warroom warroom * Jobs * RSS * Spread the word on Twitter * Home * SAI * Wire * Clusterstock * Money Game * War Room * Travel * Latest * Video * Hive * Tape * Questions * Blackboard * Management * Strategy & Tactics * Hiring & Firing * Fundraising * Founders' Corner * Most Commented * Hive * Tape * Questions Hot > Economy | Japan | Media | Mobile | People | Startups ... more topics Enter you email address and zip code to set up customized email alerts. Email Zip TODAY'S MILLION-DOLLAR IDEA: Replacing Annoying CAPTCHA Codes With Advertisements Alyson Krueger | Sep. 30, 2010, 10:00 AM | 354 | comment 6 * A A A * x Email Article From To Email Sent! You have successfully emailed the post. * * Yesterday we introduced War Room 's newest feature, "Daily Million-Dollar Idea." In case you don't know the deal, here's what we're doing: Everyone has business ideas stashed away in their brains, but they're often afraid to share them. But if it's an idea you really want to go for, you NEED outside opinions. Submit your flash of brilliance to War Room. We'll post the ones we think are promising and you'll get other readers' opinions on whether your concept is absolutely brilliant or a complete bomb. And here is today's million-dollar idea: The Idea: Solve Media Entrepreneur: Ari Jacoby, Founder and CEO, Solve Media What It Is: You know those boxes of faded letters you sometimes have to type in to access a site? Originally designed to prevent "malicious programs" from invading website content, Solve Media has transformed them into an ad unit. solve media See Also: good ideas Introducing: The Daily Million-Dollar Idea Thickbuttons Daily Million-Dollar Idea: Thick Buttons font-wall-street-movie-poster The Only 10 Reasons You Should See Wall Street 2 Instead of seeing randomly generated letters, you are given a phrase that advertises a product or service. This way, you learn about a brand - studies report that people remember phrases more when they repeat them - and online content remains free. At the very least, Mark Suster is impressed with it. He writes: "I think we've all come to accept that "[ad] banner blindness" is a real phenomenon. Sometimes you see solutions and immediately know they just make sense. Solve Media is that." Online Surveys & Market Research Have a million dollar idea of your own? Send it to tips at businessinsider.com and see if it stands up to our critical readers. Just be sure to include your name and a photo of yourself, or your idea, in the email. Tags: Gadgets , Startups , Entrepreneurship | Get Alerts for these topics > Short URL Share: * Twitter * Facebook * Buzz * Digg * StumbleUpon * Buzz * Reddit * LinkedIn * Email <> * More about embedding posts > Embed * More about Alerts > Alerts * Newsletter x To embed this post, copy the code below and paste into your website or blog. 600px wide (preview) 400px wide (preview) 300px wide (preview) Advertisement: Alyson Krueger is Writer of Business Insider. Contact: e-mail: use contact page Recent Posts * Google May Have A Ton Of Pr... Sponsored Link: Receive email updates on new comments! Email 6 Comments RSS 1 5 Flag as Offensive EconAnalyst on Sep 30, 10:11 AM <> said: This is simple and brilliant idea but I wouldn't invest in the business. The product is not defensible. Reply 0 0 Flag as Offensive Sammy the Walrus IV (URL) on Sep <> 30, 10:20 AM said: @EconAnalyst <> : if your name was Paul Allen, that would be another story. Chances are he already controls the patent for those type a word boxes anyway. Reply 0 3 Flag as Offensive SE on Sep 30, 10:38 AM <> said: Good idea that I hope never catches on. Reply 1 0 Flag as Offensive thatguy on Sep 30, 10:39 AM <> said: Pretty cool idea, but isnt the idea of the distorted text that it's difficult / impossible for a malicious program to read it (People have a hard enough time reading them sometimes, to be honest). Would it really be that hard for a malicious program to scan a banner for the text in quotes? Reply 0 1 Flag as Offensive BobSled on Sep 30, 10:40 AM <> said: What the world needs is more places to run ads! This is right up there with The Snuggie and Crocs as far as items that the world would have never missed if they never appeared. Reply 1 0 Flag as Offensive Daniel on Sep 30, 11:01 AM <> said: Wow, this is one of those ideas that I wish I had come up with! Reply Join the discussion Login With Facebook Login With Twitter Name (Required) Email Address (Required but never displayed) URL Comments (You may use HTML tags for style) Sign up to get War Room emails Email Zip * NEW! Customized instant email alerts see sample * War Room Select see sample More: * Business Insider Select see sample * Silicon Alley Insider Select see sample * Silicon Alley Insider Chart Of The Day see sample * The Wire Select see sample * Clusterstock Select see sample * Clusterstock Chart Of The Day see sample * Money Game Select see sample * Apple Investor see sample * Google Investor see sample * Microsoft Investor see sample * 10 Things Before the Opening Bell see sample * 10 Things In Tech You Need To Know see sample * Breaking News see sample * Tip Of The Day see sample * Subscribe * Facebook * Twitter * RSS * Mailing List * Got a tip? 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All rights reserved. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy . | Disclaimer Redesign by Intersect, Inc. | Powered by MongoDB | Hosted by Datapipe | Web analytics by Empirical Path From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 00:14:58 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 17:14:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: <50CB13141A0E46C18E473F5E6335A360@Dezman> References: <728579.82783.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <50CB13141A0E46C18E473F5E6335A360@Dezman> Message-ID: To Desmond's point, this may be true. But what I still get the sense of is a organization that hesitates a bit to work with other organizations to further a shared cause for fear that our core beliefs get lost or overlooked in furthering that cause. I tend to think that good leadership and a strong beliefin what you stand for will best enable you to hold your ground in those situations and make sure that what changes you want to see happen. Unless I am mistaken, the civil rights movement looked to include the rights of many people. besides it stands to reason that if you want to go after the biggest prize in a prize fight, you want to pick up as many fighting styles as possible- therefor making yourself more difficult to beat. On 10/2/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > However, I think the NFB is starting to form alliances with other groups > such as the case with the Reading Rights Coalition. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Joe, >> I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and brought blindness to >> >> where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more >> successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that TenBroek is my >> favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who first brought >> blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer organization like >> the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable achievement in a erra >> before the instent communication that we are so use to today. Whats more >> increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the >> attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do anything for >> yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved the fame that >> Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? >> Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but like you said >> we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. >> Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind community. >> You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely with >> >> other disability organizations instead of going at it alone and frankly >> since blind people are a large population of the disability community we >> would most likely achieve what we want for the blind community and maybe >> more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and ceveral groups >> trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at it alone is >> not always the best policy. >> Just some of my thoughts. >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> From: Joe Orozco >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM >>> Anmol, >>> >>> Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only >>> because so often it >>> takes years to appreciate the contributions of a >>> leader. I thought Jernigan >>> though had some good grassroots achievements. >>> TenBroek is still my favorite >>> guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her >>> achievements and >>> agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that >>> I completely agree >>> with her political philosophy, a little too socially >>> radical for my taste, >>> but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of >>> itself. You don't >>> have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge >>> their greatness. I >>> think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus >>> tenBroek is how >>> they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more >>> willing to work >>> with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me >>> for reinforcing such an >>> isolationist approach in the disability community. I >>> believe it is possible >>> to maintain our core philosophy and still work with >>> coalitions to get things >>> accomplished. Take, for example, the recent >>> Twenty-first Century >>> Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think >>> it's a pretty big deal, >>> and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to >>> incorporate our >>> technology bill of rights into something like that rather >>> than going at it >>> alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone >>> who voluntarily puts >>> themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn >>> up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>> all.”--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> >>> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The >>> thing >>> that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to >>> get >>> to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did >>> not >>> marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that >>> blind >>> people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved >>> alot >>> more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to >>> fame, >>> she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that >>> society >>> has about blindness today. However, she is just one >>> leader in >>> the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another >>> one >>> is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. >>> >>> Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness >>> then Hellen Keller. >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> >>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; >>> but it >>> is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: Kirt Manwaring >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, >>> "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM >>> > :) Anne's lost twin sister >>> > maybe? >>> > I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a >>> > variety of >>> > different places- disability rights, advocating >>> socialism >>> > (I'll look >>> > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti >>> world >>> > wars. >>> > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't >>> agree >>> > with everything >>> > she said, but her example of stepping forward and >>> speaking >>> > up is >>> > something I can respect and look up to. >>> > That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten >>> > Broek, Jernigan and >>> > Maurer have probably done more in the field of >>> blindness >>> > specificly. >>> > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or >>> Anne >>> > Sulivan in the >>> > slightest. >>> > Best regards, >>> > Kirt >>> > >>> > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco >>> > wrote: >>> > > Who's Any Seliven? >>> > > >>> > > Joe >>> > > >>> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: >>> some >>> > turn up their sleeves, >>> > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> at >>> > all."--Sam Ewing >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Beth >>> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM >>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> > list >>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> activest? >>> > > >>> > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, >>> > but Helen needed a >>> > > time to shine. >>> > > Beth >>> > > >>> > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur >>> > wrote: >>> > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for >>> the >>> > blind and >>> > > deaf comunity! Any >>> > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >> From: "Beth" >>> > >> To: ; >>> > "National Association of Blind >>> > > Students mailing >>> > >> list" >>> > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >>> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but >>> then >>> > again, she had >>> > > a life that >>> > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her >>> > time. Since she was >>> > > also deaf, she >>> > >>> could not do much else in the society >>> she >>> > lived in. She was >>> > > told not to >>> > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a >>> phrase >>> > "sexless >>> > > saint" describing >>> > >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I >>> > might be wrong. >>> > >>> Beth >>> > >>> >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind >>> Students >>> > mailing list'" >>> > >>> >> > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 >>> -0400 >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a >>> larger >>> > advocate and icon >>> > > in terms of >>> > >>> work >>> > >>> and results. I've always heard of >>> Helen >>> > Keller but could >>> > > honestly not >>> > >>> tell >>> > >>> you what she accomplished. I think I >>> > know more about Annie >>> > > Sullivan than >>> > >>> I >>> > >>> do Helen. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Joe >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of >>> people: >>> > some turn up >>> > > their sleeves, >>> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't >>> turn >>> > up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >>> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> greetings, >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I was reading something and it >>> > sparked a question that I want to >>> > >>> pose to the list for some consideration >>> and >>> > conversation. >>> > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather >>> > significant activest within the >>> > >>> disability community. >>> > >>> This being the case, I have two >>> questions: >>> > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an >>> activest/ >>> > Advocate? >>> > >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's >>> > stance on this/her? >>> > >>> I pose this as two questions to get >>> your >>> > thoughts and to >>> > > get what you >>> > >>> understand to be the organizational point >>> of >>> > view. >>> > >>> thank you all for your consideration, >>> > >>> Darian >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Darian Smith >>> > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a >>> spiritual >>> > experience. We are >>> > >>> spiritual beings having a human >>> experience." - >>> > Teilhard de Chardin >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account >>> > >>> info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > >>> %40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj >>> > > acksandefur%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get >>> > your account info for >>> > >> nabs-l: >>> > >> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>> > > isloose%40gmail.com >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account >>> > > info for nabs-l: >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > > %40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account info for >>> > > nabs-l: >>> > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>> zydude%40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> > account info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh >>> atia%40yahoo.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 01:25:16 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 21:25:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <64D5802C282540CE91AADFF0A8253D40@SerenaPC> Hi Darian, Be careful: Although the Civil Rights movement included many other disadvantaged groups, the reason why the NFB hesitates to join other disability movements is that some of our needs and special interests wouldn't be met. E.G., wheelchair users' interest in making facilities accessible to them might make them have some accommodations that blind people might not need. This is also the reason why the NFB always fights Congress about dismantling the state commissions for the blind and making one big agency for all disabilities. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 8:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? To Desmond's point, this may be true. But what I still get the sense of is a organization that hesitates a bit to work with other organizations to further a shared cause for fear that our core beliefs get lost or overlooked in furthering that cause. I tend to think that good leadership and a strong beliefin what you stand for will best enable you to hold your ground in those situations and make sure that what changes you want to see happen. Unless I am mistaken, the civil rights movement looked to include the rights of many people. besides it stands to reason that if you want to go after the biggest prize in a prize fight, you want to pick up as many fighting styles as possible- therefor making yourself more difficult to beat. On 10/2/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > However, I think the NFB is starting to form alliances with other groups > such as the case with the Reading Rights Coalition. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Joe, >> I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and brought blindness to >> >> where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more >> successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that TenBroek is my >> favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who first brought >> blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer organization like >> the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable achievement in a erra >> before the instent communication that we are so use to today. Whats more >> increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the >> attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do anything for >> yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved the fame that >> Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? >> Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but like you said >> we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. >> Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind community. >> You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely with >> >> other disability organizations instead of going at it alone and frankly >> since blind people are a large population of the disability community we >> would most likely achieve what we want for the blind community and maybe >> more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and ceveral groups >> trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at it alone is >> not always the best policy. >> Just some of my thoughts. >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> From: Joe Orozco >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM >>> Anmol, >>> >>> Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only >>> because so often it >>> takes years to appreciate the contributions of a >>> leader. I thought Jernigan >>> though had some good grassroots achievements. >>> TenBroek is still my favorite >>> guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her >>> achievements and >>> agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that >>> I completely agree >>> with her political philosophy, a little too socially >>> radical for my taste, >>> but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of >>> itself. You don't >>> have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge >>> their greatness. I >>> think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus >>> tenBroek is how >>> they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more >>> willing to work >>> with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me >>> for reinforcing such an >>> isolationist approach in the disability community. I >>> believe it is possible >>> to maintain our core philosophy and still work with >>> coalitions to get things >>> accomplished. Take, for example, the recent >>> Twenty-first Century >>> Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think >>> it's a pretty big deal, >>> and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to >>> incorporate our >>> technology bill of rights into something like that rather >>> than going at it >>> alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone >>> who voluntarily puts >>> themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn >>> up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>> all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> >>> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The >>> thing >>> that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to >>> get >>> to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did >>> not >>> marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that >>> blind >>> people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved >>> alot >>> more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to >>> fame, >>> she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that >>> society >>> has about blindness today. However, she is just one >>> leader in >>> the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another >>> one >>> is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. >>> >>> Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness >>> then Hellen Keller. >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> >>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; >>> but it >>> is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: Kirt Manwaring >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, >>> "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM >>> > :) Anne's lost twin sister >>> > maybe? >>> > I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a >>> > variety of >>> > different places- disability rights, advocating >>> socialism >>> > (I'll look >>> > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti >>> world >>> > wars. >>> > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't >>> agree >>> > with everything >>> > she said, but her example of stepping forward and >>> speaking >>> > up is >>> > something I can respect and look up to. >>> > That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten >>> > Broek, Jernigan and >>> > Maurer have probably done more in the field of >>> blindness >>> > specificly. >>> > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or >>> Anne >>> > Sulivan in the >>> > slightest. >>> > Best regards, >>> > Kirt >>> > >>> > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco >>> > wrote: >>> > > Who's Any Seliven? >>> > > >>> > > Joe >>> > > >>> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: >>> some >>> > turn up their sleeves, >>> > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> at >>> > all."--Sam Ewing >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Beth >>> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM >>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> > list >>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> activest? >>> > > >>> > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, >>> > but Helen needed a >>> > > time to shine. >>> > > Beth >>> > > >>> > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur >>> > wrote: >>> > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for >>> the >>> > blind and >>> > > deaf comunity! Any >>> > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >> From: "Beth" >>> > >> To: ; >>> > "National Association of Blind >>> > > Students mailing >>> > >> list" >>> > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >>> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but >>> then >>> > again, she had >>> > > a life that >>> > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her >>> > time. Since she was >>> > > also deaf, she >>> > >>> could not do much else in the society >>> she >>> > lived in. She was >>> > > told not to >>> > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a >>> phrase >>> > "sexless >>> > > saint" describing >>> > >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I >>> > might be wrong. >>> > >>> Beth >>> > >>> >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind >>> Students >>> > mailing list'" >>> > >>> >> > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 >>> -0400 >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a >>> larger >>> > advocate and icon >>> > > in terms of >>> > >>> work >>> > >>> and results. I've always heard of >>> Helen >>> > Keller but could >>> > > honestly not >>> > >>> tell >>> > >>> you what she accomplished. I think I >>> > know more about Annie >>> > > Sullivan than >>> > >>> I >>> > >>> do Helen. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Joe >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of >>> people: >>> > some turn up >>> > > their sleeves, >>> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't >>> turn >>> > up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >>> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> greetings, >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I was reading something and it >>> > sparked a question that I want to >>> > >>> pose to the list for some consideration >>> and >>> > conversation. >>> > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather >>> > significant activest within the >>> > >>> disability community. >>> > >>> This being the case, I have two >>> questions: >>> > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an >>> activest/ >>> > Advocate? >>> > >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's >>> > stance on this/her? >>> > >>> I pose this as two questions to get >>> your >>> > thoughts and to >>> > > get what you >>> > >>> understand to be the organizational point >>> of >>> > view. >>> > >>> thank you all for your consideration, >>> > >>> Darian >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Darian Smith >>> > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a >>> spiritual >>> > experience. We are >>> > >>> spiritual beings having a human >>> experience." - >>> > Teilhard de Chardin >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account >>> > >>> info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > >>> %40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj >>> > > acksandefur%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get >>> > your account info for >>> > >> nabs-l: >>> > >> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>> > > isloose%40gmail.com >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account >>> > > info for nabs-l: >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > > %40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account info for >>> > > nabs-l: >>> > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>> zydude%40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> > account info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh >>> atia%40yahoo.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo .com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma il.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co m > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 03:08:33 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 23:08:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: <64D5802C282540CE91AADFF0A8253D40@SerenaPC> References: <64D5802C282540CE91AADFF0A8253D40@SerenaPC> Message-ID: Serena, You raise some very good points. I mostly disagree with you, but the point I would like to emphasize here is this notion about accommodations blind people might not need. If blind people do not need them, they need not use them. Blind people are about as diverse as anyone else in skill sets, and so what may not seem crucial to some may be critical to others. Trust me, I have not always been so liberal in my blindness philosophy, but in the context of advocating for change, I would rather see blind people enjoy more benefits from collective action that helps a lot of people rather than independent strategies that may or may not yield results for many years to come. Your point about fighting for blindness-specific agencies is a little more difficult to argue. I've experienced both sides of that question, and I still don't have a solid position on it. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:25 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Hi Darian, Be careful: Although the Civil Rights movement included many other disadvantaged groups, the reason why the NFB hesitates to join other disability movements is that some of our needs and special interests wouldn't be met. E.G., wheelchair users' interest in making facilities accessible to them might make them have some accommodations that blind people might not need. This is also the reason why the NFB always fights Congress about dismantling the state commissions for the blind and making one big agency for all disabilities. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 8:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? To Desmond's point, this may be true. But what I still get the sense of is a organization that hesitates a bit to work with other organizations to further a shared cause for fear that our core beliefs get lost or overlooked in furthering that cause. I tend to think that good leadership and a strong beliefin what you stand for will best enable you to hold your ground in those situations and make sure that what changes you want to see happen. Unless I am mistaken, the civil rights movement looked to include the rights of many people. besides it stands to reason that if you want to go after the biggest prize in a prize fight, you want to pick up as many fighting styles as possible- therefor making yourself more difficult to beat. On 10/2/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > However, I think the NFB is starting to form alliances with other groups > such as the case with the Reading Rights Coalition. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Joe, >> I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and brought blindness to >> >> where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more >> successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that TenBroek is my >> favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who first brought >> blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer organization like >> the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable achievement in a erra >> before the instent communication that we are so use to today. Whats more >> increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the >> attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do anything for >> yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved the fame that >> Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? >> Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but like you said >> we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. >> Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind community. >> You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely with >> >> other disability organizations instead of going at it alone and frankly >> since blind people are a large population of the disability community we >> would most likely achieve what we want for the blind community and maybe >> more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and ceveral groups >> trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at it alone is >> not always the best policy. >> Just some of my thoughts. >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> From: Joe Orozco >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM >>> Anmol, >>> >>> Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only >>> because so often it >>> takes years to appreciate the contributions of a >>> leader. I thought Jernigan >>> though had some good grassroots achievements. >>> TenBroek is still my favorite >>> guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her >>> achievements and >>> agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that >>> I completely agree >>> with her political philosophy, a little too socially >>> radical for my taste, >>> but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of >>> itself. You don't >>> have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge >>> their greatness. I >>> think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus >>> tenBroek is how >>> they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more >>> willing to work >>> with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me >>> for reinforcing such an >>> isolationist approach in the disability community. I >>> believe it is possible >>> to maintain our core philosophy and still work with >>> coalitions to get things >>> accomplished. Take, for example, the recent >>> Twenty-first Century >>> Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think >>> it's a pretty big deal, >>> and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to >>> incorporate our >>> technology bill of rights into something like that rather >>> than going at it >>> alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone >>> who voluntarily puts >>> themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn >>> up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>> all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> >>> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The >>> thing >>> that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to >>> get >>> to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did >>> not >>> marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that >>> blind >>> people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved >>> alot >>> more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to >>> fame, >>> she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that >>> society >>> has about blindness today. However, she is just one >>> leader in >>> the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another >>> one >>> is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. >>> >>> Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness >>> then Hellen Keller. >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> >>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; >>> but it >>> is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: Kirt Manwaring >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, >>> "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM >>> > :) Anne's lost twin sister >>> > maybe? >>> > I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a >>> > variety of >>> > different places- disability rights, advocating >>> socialism >>> > (I'll look >>> > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti >>> world >>> > wars. >>> > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't >>> agree >>> > with everything >>> > she said, but her example of stepping forward and >>> speaking >>> > up is >>> > something I can respect and look up to. >>> > That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten >>> > Broek, Jernigan and >>> > Maurer have probably done more in the field of >>> blindness >>> > specificly. >>> > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or >>> Anne >>> > Sulivan in the >>> > slightest. >>> > Best regards, >>> > Kirt >>> > >>> > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco >>> > wrote: >>> > > Who's Any Seliven? >>> > > >>> > > Joe >>> > > >>> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: >>> some >>> > turn up their sleeves, >>> > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> at >>> > all."--Sam Ewing >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Beth >>> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM >>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> > list >>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> activest? >>> > > >>> > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, >>> > but Helen needed a >>> > > time to shine. >>> > > Beth >>> > > >>> > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur >>> > wrote: >>> > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for >>> the >>> > blind and >>> > > deaf comunity! Any >>> > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >> From: "Beth" >>> > >> To: ; >>> > "National Association of Blind >>> > > Students mailing >>> > >> list" >>> > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >>> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but >>> then >>> > again, she had >>> > > a life that >>> > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her >>> > time. Since she was >>> > > also deaf, she >>> > >>> could not do much else in the society >>> she >>> > lived in. She was >>> > > told not to >>> > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a >>> phrase >>> > "sexless >>> > > saint" describing >>> > >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I >>> > might be wrong. >>> > >>> Beth >>> > >>> >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind >>> Students >>> > mailing list'" >>> > >>> >> > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 >>> -0400 >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a >>> larger >>> > advocate and icon >>> > > in terms of >>> > >>> work >>> > >>> and results. I've always heard of >>> Helen >>> > Keller but could >>> > > honestly not >>> > >>> tell >>> > >>> you what she accomplished. I think I >>> > know more about Annie >>> > > Sullivan than >>> > >>> I >>> > >>> do Helen. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Joe >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of >>> people: >>> > some turn up >>> > > their sleeves, >>> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't >>> turn >>> > up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >>> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> greetings, >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I was reading something and it >>> > sparked a question that I want to >>> > >>> pose to the list for some consideration >>> and >>> > conversation. >>> > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather >>> > significant activest within the >>> > >>> disability community. >>> > >>> This being the case, I have two >>> questions: >>> > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an >>> activest/ >>> > Advocate? >>> > >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's >>> > stance on this/her? >>> > >>> I pose this as two questions to get >>> your >>> > thoughts and to >>> > > get what you >>> > >>> understand to be the organizational point >>> of >>> > view. >>> > >>> thank you all for your consideration, >>> > >>> Darian >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Darian Smith >>> > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a >>> spiritual >>> > experience. We are >>> > >>> spiritual beings having a human >>> experience." - >>> > Teilhard de Chardin >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account >>> > >>> info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > >>> %40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj >>> > > acksandefur%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get >>> > your account info for >>> > >> nabs-l: >>> > >> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>> > > isloose%40gmail.com >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account >>> > > info for nabs-l: >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > > %40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account info for >>> > > nabs-l: >>> > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>> zydude%40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> > account info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh >>> atia%40yahoo.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh atia%40yahoo .com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson. dezman%40gma il.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf b%40gmail.co m > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu cco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 04:20:20 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 22:20:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: References: <64D5802C282540CE91AADFF0A8253D40@SerenaPC> Message-ID: Joe, I get the feeling from dr. Maurer that the organization's gradually opening up and working with more people. Perhaps not as much as I'd like but, in the blind community specificly, I'd put the NFB under Maurer right up with Ten Broek and Jernigan. I honestly don't know what Hellen Keller did in the realm of blindness particularly, other than help found the AFB, but I think on a larger scale she's achieved more than anyone focused primarily on blindness. It's my understanding that Hellen Keller's activism was much more politically oriented and, from that standpoint, I don't think Ten Broek, Jernigan or Maurer can compare. All the best, Kirt On 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Serena, > > You raise some very good points. I mostly disagree with you, but the point > I would like to emphasize here is this notion about accommodations blind > people might not need. If blind people do not need them, they need not use > them. Blind people are about as diverse as anyone else in skill sets, and > so what may not seem crucial to some may be critical to others. Trust me, I > have not always been so liberal in my blindness philosophy, but in the > context of advocating for change, I would rather see blind people enjoy more > benefits from collective action that helps a lot of people rather than > independent strategies that may or may not yield results for many years to > come. Your point about fighting for blindness-specific agencies is a little > more difficult to argue. I've experienced both sides of that question, and > I still don't have a solid position on it. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:25 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > Hi Darian, > > Be careful: Although the Civil Rights movement included many other > disadvantaged groups, the reason why the NFB hesitates to join other > disability movements is that some of our needs and special interests > wouldn't be met. E.G., wheelchair users' interest in making facilities > accessible to them might make them have some accommodations that blind > people might not need. This is also the reason why the NFB > always fights > Congress about dismantling the state commissions for the blind > and making > one big agency for all disabilities. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Darian Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 8:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > To Desmond's point, this may be true. But what I still get the > sense of is a organization that hesitates a bit to work with other > organizations to further a shared cause for fear that our core > beliefs get lost or overlooked in furthering that cause. > I tend to think that good leadership and a strong beliefin what you > stand for will best enable you to hold your ground in those > situations and make sure that what changes you want to see happen. > Unless I am mistaken, the civil rights movement looked to include the > rights of many people. besides it stands to reason that if you want > to go after the biggest prize in a prize fight, you want to pick up > as many fighting styles as possible- therefor making yourself more > difficult to beat. > > > On 10/2/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> However, I think the NFB is starting to form alliances with > other groups >> such as the case with the Reading Rights Coalition. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anmol Bhatia" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >> >> >>> Joe, >>> I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and > brought blindness > to >>> >>> where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more >>> successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that > TenBroek is my >>> favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who > first brought >>> blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer > organization like >>> the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable > achievement in a erra >>> before the instent communication that we are so use to > today. Whats more >>> increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the >>> attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do > anything for >>> yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved > the fame that >>> Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? >>> Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but > like you said >>> we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. >>> Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind > community. >>> You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely > with >>> >>> other disability organizations instead of going at it alone > and frankly >>> since blind people are a large population of the disability > community we >>> would most likely achieve what we want for the blind > community and maybe >>> more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and > ceveral groups >>> trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at > it alone is >>> not always the best policy. >>> Just some of my thoughts. >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a > breeze >>> >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joe Orozco >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM >>>> Anmol, >>>> >>>> Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only >>>> because so often it >>>> takes years to appreciate the contributions of a >>>> leader. I thought Jernigan >>>> though had some good grassroots achievements. >>>> TenBroek is still my favorite >>>> guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her >>>> achievements and >>>> agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that >>>> I completely agree >>>> with her political philosophy, a little too socially >>>> radical for my taste, >>>> but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of >>>> itself. You don't >>>> have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge >>>> their greatness. I >>>> think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus >>>> tenBroek is how >>>> they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more >>>> willing to work >>>> with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me >>>> for reinforcing such an >>>> isolationist approach in the disability community. I >>>> believe it is possible >>>> to maintain our core philosophy and still work with >>>> coalitions to get things >>>> accomplished. Take, for example, the recent >>>> Twenty-first Century >>>> Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think >>>> it's a pretty big deal, >>>> and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to >>>> incorporate our >>>> technology bill of rights into something like that rather >>>> than going at it >>>> alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone >>>> who voluntarily puts >>>> themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn >>>> up their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>>> all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>>> >>>> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The >>>> thing >>>> that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to >>>> get >>>> to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did >>>> not >>>> marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that >>>> blind >>>> people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved >>>> alot >>>> more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to >>>> fame, >>>> she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that >>>> society >>>> has about blindness today. However, she is just one >>>> leader in >>>> the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another >>>> one >>>> is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. >>>> >>>> Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness >>>> then Hellen Keller. >>>> Anmol >>>> >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>> >>>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; >>>> but it >>>> is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>>> > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, >>>> "National Association of Blind >>>> Students mailing list" >>>> > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM >>>> > :) Anne's lost twin sister >>>> > maybe? >>>> > I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a >>>> > variety of >>>> > different places- disability rights, advocating >>>> socialism >>>> > (I'll look >>>> > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti >>>> world >>>> > wars. >>>> > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't >>>> agree >>>> > with everything >>>> > she said, but her example of stepping forward and >>>> speaking >>>> > up is >>>> > something I can respect and look up to. >>>> > That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten >>>> > Broek, Jernigan and >>>> > Maurer have probably done more in the field of >>>> blindness >>>> > specificly. >>>> > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or >>>> Anne >>>> > Sulivan in the >>>> > slightest. >>>> > Best regards, >>>> > Kirt >>>> > >>>> > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco >>>> > wrote: >>>> > > Who's Any Seliven? >>>> > > >>>> > > Joe >>>> > > >>>> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: >>>> some >>>> > turn up their sleeves, >>>> > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>>> at >>>> > all."--Sam Ewing >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> > On Behalf Of Beth >>>> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM >>>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> > list >>>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>>> activest? >>>> > > >>>> > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, >>>> > but Helen needed a >>>> > > time to shine. >>>> > > Beth >>>> > > >>>> > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for >>>> the >>>> > blind and >>>> > > deaf comunity! Any >>>> > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >>>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >> From: "Beth" >>>> > >> To: ; >>>> > "National Association of Blind >>>> > > Students mailing >>>> > >> list" >>>> > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >>>> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>>> > activest? >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but >>>> then >>>> > again, she had >>>> > > a life that >>>> > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her >>>> > time. Since she was >>>> > > also deaf, she >>>> > >>> could not do much else in the society >>>> she >>>> > lived in. She was >>>> > > told not to >>>> > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a >>>> phrase >>>> > "sexless >>>> > > saint" describing >>>> > >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I >>>> > might be wrong. >>>> > >>> Beth >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind >>>> Students >>>> > mailing list'" >>>> > >>> >>> > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 >>>> -0400 >>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>>> > activest? >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a >>>> larger >>>> > advocate and icon >>>> > > in terms of >>>> > >>> work >>>> > >>> and results. I've always heard of >>>> Helen >>>> > Keller but could >>>> > > honestly not >>>> > >>> tell >>>> > >>> you what she accomplished. I think I >>>> > know more about Annie >>>> > > Sullivan than >>>> > >>> I >>>> > >>> do Helen. >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> Joe >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of >>>> people: >>>> > some turn up >>>> > > their sleeves, >>>> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't >>>> turn >>>> > up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> > On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>>> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >>>> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>>> > activest? >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> greetings, >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> I was reading something and it >>>> > sparked a question that I want to >>>> > >>> pose to the list for some consideration >>>> and >>>> > conversation. >>>> > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather >>>> > significant activest within the >>>> > >>> disability community. >>>> > >>> This being the case, I have two >>>> questions: >>>> > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an >>>> activest/ >>>> > Advocate? >>>> > >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's >>>> > stance on this/her? >>>> > >>> I pose this as two questions to get >>>> your >>>> > thoughts and to >>>> > > get what you >>>> > >>> understand to be the organizational point >>>> of >>>> > view. >>>> > >>> thank you all for your consideration, >>>> > >>> Darian >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> -- >>>> > >>> Darian Smith >>>> > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>>> > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>>> > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a >>>> spiritual >>>> > experience. We are >>>> > >>> spiritual beings having a human >>>> experience." - >>>> > Teilhard de Chardin >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or >>>> > get your account >>>> > >>> info for nabs-l: >>>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> > >>> %40gmail.com >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or >>>> > get your account info for >>>> > >>> nabs-l: >>>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or >>>> > get your account info for >>>> > >>> nabs-l: >>>> > >>> >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj >>>> > > acksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> > >>> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>> get >>>> > your account info for >>>> > >> nabs-l: >>>> > >> >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>>> > > isloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >> >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your >>>> > account >>>> > > info for nabs-l: >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> > > %40gmail.com >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your >>>> > account info for >>>> > > nabs-l: >>>> > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>>> zydude%40gmail.com >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> > account info for nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh >>>> atia%40yahoo.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh > atia%40yahoo > .com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson. > dezman%40gma > il.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf > b%40gmail.co > m >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu > cco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 06:01:30 2010 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 23:01:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature In-Reply-To: <002001cb5ffc$6dbecfd0$493c6f70$@com> References: <002001cb5ffc$6dbecfd0$493c6f70$@com> Message-ID: The wineyes command is ins-tab. Or at least that is what it is for the laptop layout. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Sean Whalen wrote: > Jedi, > > Sorry, I don't even think outside of the JAWS paradigm. The alt plus I, M, > to insert comments is a Word keyboard command, but the more useful, windows > key plus ; to display comments is a JAWS feature. It brings up a list of > items, including comments, footnotes, endnotes, and track changes revisions, > that you can view in the virtual viewer. Outside of JAWS, I do not know how > to deal with either comments or track changes. > > Take care, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 06:20:51 2010 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 23:20:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] computer programming? In-Reply-To: <4CA79DDB.1020308@pcdesk.net> References: <4CA79DDB.1020308@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: I have also had experience in the C language though only in the academic setting. On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Corey, > I have experience programming in both C and C++. I've done it in a > private setting, an academic setting, and an industrial setting. C is a > powerful language, but a bit tricky to program in properly. C++ is a bit > easier, but still tricky at times. This makes sense because both > languages allow you to get in there and fiddle with the actual details > of how your program runs. If you have specific questions, feel free to > ask and I'll do my best to answer them. > -- > They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: > $ ar m God > ar: creating God > There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God > really does exist! > Joseph C. Lininger, > On 9/29/2010 6:28 PM, Corey Cook wrote: >> Do any of you have any experience with programming in the c programming >> language? >> Also thoughts on doing math when you don't have access to Braille materials? >> >> >> Corey Cook >> Email >> ccook01 at knology.net >> Facebook >> ccook01 at knology.net >> Skype >> coreym821 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Oct 3 16:01:41 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 12:01:41 EDT Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Iabs-talk] Streaming of Illinois Convention 10/8 -10/10 Message-ID: <13b97b.33a9742a.39da02e5@aol.com> ____________________________________ From: pattichang at att.net Reply-to: iabs-talk at nfbnet.org To: il-talk at nfbnet.org, iabs-talk at nfbnet.org Sent: 10/3/2010 11:59:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: [Iabs-talk] Streaming of Ilinois Convention 10/8 -10/10 The National Federation of the Blind of Illinois will be streaming our convention next weekend. First and formost, we will stream our banquet on Saturday night beginning 7:00 central time. Dr. Maurer is our keynote speaker. We will also stream our general sessions Friday night (including the popular IABS Idol, Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. The link is: http://gamebird.ehhh.us:8000/nfbi.m3u Please mark it as a favorite now or save this e-mail. We are very excited to do this and want as many to join us as possible. _______________________________________________ Iabs-talk mailing list Iabs-talk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/iabs-talk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Iabs-talk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/iabs-talk_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 18:01:31 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 14:01:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe I hadn't thought about your first point the way you did. I guess, we agree after all. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 11:09 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Serena, You raise some very good points. I mostly disagree with you, but the point I would like to emphasize here is this notion about accommodations blind people might not need. If blind people do not need them, they need not use them. Blind people are about as diverse as anyone else in skill sets, and so what may not seem crucial to some may be critical to others. Trust me, I have not always been so liberal in my blindness philosophy, but in the context of advocating for change, I would rather see blind people enjoy more benefits from collective action that helps a lot of people rather than independent strategies that may or may not yield results for many years to come. Your point about fighting for blindness-specific agencies is a little more difficult to argue. I've experienced both sides of that question, and I still don't have a solid position on it. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:25 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Hi Darian, Be careful: Although the Civil Rights movement included many other disadvantaged groups, the reason why the NFB hesitates to join other disability movements is that some of our needs and special interests wouldn't be met. E.G., wheelchair users' interest in making facilities accessible to them might make them have some accommodations that blind people might not need. This is also the reason why the NFB always fights Congress about dismantling the state commissions for the blind and making one big agency for all disabilities. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 8:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? To Desmond's point, this may be true. But what I still get the sense of is a organization that hesitates a bit to work with other organizations to further a shared cause for fear that our core beliefs get lost or overlooked in furthering that cause. I tend to think that good leadership and a strong beliefin what you stand for will best enable you to hold your ground in those situations and make sure that what changes you want to see happen. Unless I am mistaken, the civil rights movement looked to include the rights of many people. besides it stands to reason that if you want to go after the biggest prize in a prize fight, you want to pick up as many fighting styles as possible- therefor making yourself more difficult to beat. On 10/2/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > However, I think the NFB is starting to form alliances with other groups > such as the case with the Reading Rights Coalition. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? > > >> Joe, >> I do agree that TenBroek was a incrediable person and brought blindness to >> >> where it is today, but I still think that Hellen Keller was alot more >> successful then Dr. TenBroek. Although I must confess that TenBroek is my >> favorite from Jernigan and Maurer. It was Dr. TenBroek who first brought >> blind people as a strong force and forming a consumer organization like >> the NFB to represent blind people was a incrediable achievement in a erra >> before the instent communication that we are so use to today. Whats more >> increditable is what Dr. TenBroek achieved during the time when the >> attitude was that if you were blind you simply can not do anything for >> yourself. But there is a reason why Hellen Keller achieved the fame that >> Dr. TenBroek did not what do you think the reason was? >> Her potical beliefs may have been a little to ratical, but like you said >> we do not have to always agree with all the beliefs of great leaders. >> Whats important is the contributions that she made to the blind community. >> You are right that it would be better if we were to work more closely with >> >> other disability organizations instead of going at it alone and frankly >> since blind people are a large population of the disability community we >> would most likely achieve what we want for the blind community and maybe >> more. With our legislative leaders pressed for time and ceveral groups >> trying to fight for attention and government funds, going at it alone is >> not always the best policy. >> Just some of my thoughts. >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> From: Joe Orozco >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:13 AM >>> Anmol, >>> >>> Really? I don't know about Maurer, but this is only >>> because so often it >>> takes years to appreciate the contributions of a >>> leader. I thought Jernigan >>> though had some good grassroots achievements. >>> TenBroek is still my favorite >>> guy, and as for Helen Keller, I finally read up on her >>> achievements and >>> agree she was a commendable figure. I don't know that >>> I completely agree >>> with her political philosophy, a little too socially >>> radical for my taste, >>> but helping to found the ACLU is a pretty huge deal in of >>> itself. You don't >>> have to agree with a leader's positions to acknowledge >>> their greatness. I >>> think that what strikes me about Helen Keller and Jacobus >>> tenBroek is how >>> they appeared to be a little more inclusive, a little more >>> willing to work >>> with other groups. Maurer loses major points for me >>> for reinforcing such an >>> isolationist approach in the disability community. I >>> believe it is possible >>> to maintain our core philosophy and still work with >>> coalitions to get things >>> accomplished. Take, for example, the recent >>> Twenty-first Century >>> Communications and Video Accessibility Act. I think >>> it's a pretty big deal, >>> and I wonder if we might not have been better off trying to >>> incorporate our >>> technology bill of rights into something like that rather >>> than going at it >>> alone. Here again though, I have to respect anyone >>> who voluntarily puts >>> themselves at the helm of any cause-oriented organization. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn >>> up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>> all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 3:52 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> >>> Hellen Killer did do alot for the blind community. The >>> thing >>> that stands out for me is what she overcame and achieved to >>> get >>> to where she got to. All that she accomplished. Yes she did >>> not >>> marry, but look famous she became. Consider the life that >>> blind >>> people were expected to achieve back then and she achieved >>> alot >>> more and as a result of her advocacy work and coming to >>> fame, >>> she has brought the somewhat possative attitude that >>> society >>> has about blindness today. However, she is just one >>> leader in >>> the history of blindness. Hellen Keller is one and another >>> one >>> is Louis Braille. Having said that I can not agree that Dr. >>> >>> Jernigan and Dr. more have done more for blindness >>> then Hellen Keller. >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> >>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; >>> but it >>> is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kirt Manwaring >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: Kirt Manwaring >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? >>> > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, >>> "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> > Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 8:49 PM >>> > :) Anne's lost twin sister >>> > maybe? >>> > I've heard of Hellen Keller being an activist in a >>> > variety of >>> > different places- disability rights, advocating >>> socialism >>> > (I'll look >>> > this one up again but I'm pretty sure), and anti >>> world >>> > wars. >>> > So...yes, I'd consider her an activist. I don't >>> agree >>> > with everything >>> > she said, but her example of stepping forward and >>> speaking >>> > up is >>> > something I can respect and look up to. >>> > That being said, I also think that Doctors Ten >>> > Broek, Jernigan and >>> > Maurer have probably done more in the field of >>> blindness >>> > specificly. >>> > But I don't think that diminishes Hellen Keller or >>> Anne >>> > Sulivan in the >>> > slightest. >>> > Best regards, >>> > Kirt >>> > >>> > On 10/1/10, Joe Orozco >>> > wrote: >>> > > Who's Any Seliven? >>> > > >>> > > Joe >>> > > >>> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: >>> some >>> > turn up their sleeves, >>> > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> at >>> > all."--Sam Ewing >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Beth >>> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:13 PM >>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> > list >>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> activest? >>> > > >>> > > You're right. Annie Sullivat proved something, >>> > but Helen needed a >>> > > time to shine. >>> > > Beth >>> > > >>> > > On 10/1/10, RJ Sandefur >>> > wrote: >>> > >> Give me a brake? Helen Keller did a lot for >>> the >>> > blind and >>> > > deaf comunity! Any >>> > >> Seliven was the Dr. Gernigan of her time! RJ >>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >> From: "Beth" >>> > >> To: ; >>> > "National Association of Blind >>> > > Students mailing >>> > >> list" >>> > >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:31 PM >>> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >>> Helen Keller has always inspired me, but >>> then >>> > again, she had >>> > > a life that >>> > >>> was typical of a blind woman in her >>> > time. Since she was >>> > > also deaf, she >>> > >>> could not do much else in the society >>> she >>> > lived in. She was >>> > > told not to >>> > >>> marry and have children, so I've seen a >>> phrase >>> > "sexless >>> > > saint" describing >>> > >>> her. Where is that, anyone? I >>> > might be wrong. >>> > >>> Beth >>> > >>> >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> > >>> To: "'National Association of Blind >>> Students >>> > mailing list'" >>> > >>> >> > >>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:17:42 >>> -0400 >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I personally think ten'Broek was a >>> larger >>> > advocate and icon >>> > > in terms of >>> > >>> work >>> > >>> and results. I've always heard of >>> Helen >>> > Keller but could >>> > > honestly not >>> > >>> tell >>> > >>> you what she accomplished. I think I >>> > know more about Annie >>> > > Sullivan than >>> > >>> I >>> > >>> do Helen. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Joe >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of >>> people: >>> > some turn up >>> > > their sleeves, >>> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't >>> turn >>> > up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> > On Behalf Of Darian Smith >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:20 PM >>> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the >>> > activest? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> greetings, >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I was reading something and it >>> > sparked a question that I want to >>> > >>> pose to the list for some consideration >>> and >>> > conversation. >>> > >>> Helen Keller was considered a rather >>> > significant activest within the >>> > >>> disability community. >>> > >>> This being the case, I have two >>> questions: >>> > >>> 1. do you personally consider her an >>> activest/ >>> > Advocate? >>> > >>> 2. what do we know to be the NFB's >>> > stance on this/her? >>> > >>> I pose this as two questions to get >>> your >>> > thoughts and to >>> > > get what you >>> > >>> understand to be the organizational point >>> of >>> > view. >>> > >>> thank you all for your consideration, >>> > >>> Darian >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Darian Smith >>> > >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> > >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> > >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> "We are not human beings having a >>> spiritual >>> > experience. We are >>> > >>> spiritual beings having a human >>> experience." - >>> > Teilhard de Chardin >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account >>> > >>> info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > >>> %40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or >>> > get your account info for >>> > >>> nabs-l: >>> > >>> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj >>> > > acksandefur%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> nabs-l mailing list >>> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get >>> > your account info for >>> > >> nabs-l: >>> > >> >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>> > > isloose%40gmail.com >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account >>> > > info for nabs-l: >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> > > %40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your >>> > account info for >>> > > nabs-l: >>> > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.cra >>> zydude%40gmail.com >>> > > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> > account info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh >>> atia%40yahoo.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh atia%40yahoo .com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson. dezman%40gma il.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf b%40gmail.co m > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu cco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Sun Oct 3 22:44:00 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 17:44:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? References: Message-ID: Hello: While reading these messages on activists, I was thinking of a blind person who was fairly well known in the nineteenth century. She was Francis Jayne Crosby usually known as Fanny J. Crosby. She was born in 1820 and died in 1915. Numbers vary, but she wrote between 6,000 and 9,000 hymns. Although not an activist like Helen Keller, Dr. tenBroek etc., she in her own way influenced a great many people. Three of her hymns are: To God Be The Glory, Blessed Assurance and Pass Me Not Oh Gentle Savior. Have a great day. Regards, Robert Jaquiss From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 23:06:53 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 19:06:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An excellent reminder! I was just reading about her a couple months ago, and I never knew some of my favorites are attributed to her. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 6:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helen Keller - the activest? Hello: While reading these messages on activists, I was thinking of a blind person who was fairly well known in the nineteenth century. She was Francis Jayne Crosby usually known as Fanny J. Crosby. She was born in 1820 and died in 1915. Numbers vary, but she wrote between 6,000 and 9,000 hymns. Although not an activist like Helen Keller, Dr. tenBroek etc., she in her own way influenced a great many people. Three of her hymns are: To God Be The Glory, Blessed Assurance and Pass Me Not Oh Gentle Savior. Have a great day. Regards, Robert Jaquiss _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 4 00:31:53 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 17:31:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: some very beginner, basic cooking questions! Message-ID: <64B7A018C2DD46B68E4CEF0250123BEE@windows4c0ed96> -----Original Message----- From: V Nork [mailto:ginisd at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 4:12 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: RE: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! Hello Kerri and all, Below is the Safeway accessibility site and the telephone number for customer service. I have had things delivered, most helpful for me to have delivered are bulky things like milk, soda, drinking water, and things that can be awkward to carry up stairs where I live, like multiple packs of paper towels, and so on. Safeway has a line of signature soups that are very good, and fresh from the deli, but of course sometimes they are out of what I want. And although customer service is not specifically set up to help blind customers who have screen readers, rather all members of the public, they are still great and helpful to speak to when you are mastering using the site. The accessibility site is designed for blind users because it is simpler, but I do not thing the regular Von's site would be a problem to learn for those on this list with some trial and error. The regular Von's site may help you with product details, say knowing sodium and carbs, which is not easy to view on the accessibility site, at least not with Window Eyes for me.I think you have to create an account to browse in the accessibility site, but not in the regular site, for Vons. I am in California, so I am not sure how much is regional. Links are below, hope this is clear, Ginnie www.shop.safeway.com/access www.vonscom customer service: 1-877-505-4040 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:18 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! Hi Nicole and All: Safeway looks good, but I can't figure out how to browse? I typed in my zipcode and there isn't one in my area...so I just typed in the keyword search "chicken marinade" and a bunch of recipes for different home-made marinades came up. What I want is a list of bottled/already-made marinades sold in popular stores such as Kroger or walmart so when I go I have some idea of what to get. On doing a google search for "browsing grocery store online" I got walmart.com grocery but currently it says it's unavailable for maintinence. What about amazon grocery? I don't think there is any delivery grocery services where I live (although that would be nice) so I'm not looking necessairily for online grocery shopping per say but just a way to see what some of the items in the isles are so I can get a better idea of what to get when I do go to the store that way I don't have to take up the customer service person's time browsing and having no clue what I want. Am I missing something with the Safeway site? Can you browse their groceries without being a member or having a store in your area? What about Walmart.com grocery and amazon.com grocery? Would those be my best bet for what I'm looking for? I didn't see anything like this on Kroger.com except for their weekly ads! Kerri On 10/1/10, Katie Wang wrote: > Thanks, guys! I think i'm happy with my toaster oven for now but now > that i know the difference a George Forman grill can definitely be an > option for the future. And i'm glad to learn that you could use the > microwave to make scrambled eggs and burger patties-- Will try that > very soon. This is a great thread:) > Katie > > > On 9/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> Yep, Safeway.com. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do my shopping online. >> >> As far as grill verses oven, a grill is basically for flatter things while >> an oven is for taller things. You grill mainly meat, fish, vegetables, and >> sometimes buns on a grill where as you bake a lot of other things. Have >> you >> ever felt an outdoor grill? If so, an inside is basically like that except >> for that it runs on electricity rather than gas or charcoal. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> A george Foreman is more like a grill...iit grills things rather than >>> bakes as a toaster oven does. >>> >>> I actually like things done in the oven better as I think food tastes >>> better in the oven but maybe that's because I've been so limited for >>> so long that now I've discovered I can make some decent things in the >>> toaster oven and it won't burn the house down I'm sick of the Foreman >>> lol. >>> >>> I'm sure there is more you can make but I usually use the foreman for >>> meats...I understand you can make vegetables on it as well but have >>> never done this. >>> >>> To Arielle and others...is there any grocery store websites where I >>> could possibly somehow browse "virtual" isles online almost as if I'm >>> going to shop online and maybe get some ideas ahead of time online >>> then make a final grocery list? I got this idea because I was looking >>> on kroger.com and they have their weekly ads...their ads can be viewed >>> in categories and it reminded me of browsing the store. All I saw this >>> for was the weekly ads but if I could somehow browse a wider variety >>> online...that would help a ton. >>> >>> If it were up to me, I would go to the store and browse all day but I >>> know you can't do that with a shopping assistant. Without going into a >>> ton of details and cluttering up this email more than it already >>> is...I don't have much sighted support...most of the sighted people >>> around here seem to have the typical feel--sorry attitude so I'm sort >>> of on my own. >>> >>> By the way I have to say...I have one pound of ground beef left...I >>> took some out of the package, made it into a patty, put it in the >>> microwave for 4 minutes, turned it over, and fixed it for another 5, >>> put a slice of american cheese on it, fixed it for another >>> minute...and fixed myself a real ground beef hamburger. It tasted >>> exactly as I've had before made on the stove...you would've thought it >>> had been made on the stove...so yes microwaved browned ground beef is >>> good...I will try putting it in hamburger helper next. I found >>> microwave hamburger helper directions! I've been wanting to try making >>> hamburger helper forever now! >>> >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 9/30/10, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi, Kerry and all, >>>> I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from >>>> everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. >>>> One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave >>>> all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an >>>> oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you >>>> use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for >>>>> chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind >>>>> doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken >>>>> marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the >>>>> aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken >>>>> product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just >>>>> coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in >>>>> it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can >>>>> get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. >>>>> >>>>> You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone >>>>> else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless >>>>> number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or >>>>> two ingredients. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you >>>>> can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for >>>>> "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >>>>>> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >>>>>> From >>>>>> Jacob Struiksma >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >>>>>> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >>>>>> chicken >>>>>> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >>>>>> for >>>>>> soup. >>>>>> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >>>>>> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>>>> Association >>>>>> of >>>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>>>>>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Kerri, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>>>>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates >>>>>>>> grease >>>>>>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>>>>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >>>>>> microwave. >>>>>>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>>>>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> don't like them. >>>>>>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. >>>>>>>> Check >>>>>>>> again! >>>>>>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>>>>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>>>>>> 15 second intervals. >>>>>>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>>>>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>>>>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>>>>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>>>>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>>>>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>>>>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its >>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>>>>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread >>>>>>>> crumbs. >>>>>>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> plain ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>>>>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>>>>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>>>>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>>>>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>>>>>> more taste. >>>>>>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store >>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>>>>>> and experimenting. >>>>>>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the >>>>>>>> rehab >>>>>>>> center I went to in state. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>>>>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>>>>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>>>>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> mind first. >>>>>>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>>>>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? >>>>>>>> Mine >>>>>> does. >>>>>>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>>>>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>>>>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>>>>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses >>>>>>>> offer >>>>>>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>>>>>> know what all is there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>>>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >>>>>>>> Students >>>>>>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>>>>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>>>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>>>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>>>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>>>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>>>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>>>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>>>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>>>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>>>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>>>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>>>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>>>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>>>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>>>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>>>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>>>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>>>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes >>>>>>>>> stirring >>>>>>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>>>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>>>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>>>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>>>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>>>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>>>>>> too much butter in? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the >>>>>>>>> eggs. >>>>>>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>>>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>>>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>>>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>>>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>>>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. >>>>>>>>> Should >>>>>>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>>>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>>>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>>>>>> are many different types. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>>>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>>>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>>>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>>>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>>>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the >>>>>>>>> George >>>>>>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>>>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>>>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>>>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>>>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>> simple. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>>>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>>>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>>>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>>>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>>>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>>>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>>>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>>>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>>>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>>>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>>>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>>>>>> Kerri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>>>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>>>>>> wavecable.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n et From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 14:51:51 2010 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:51:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program? Message-ID: Hi, I received an announcement from my University's career center about the "Workforce Recruitment Program." According to the notice, ": The purpose of the program is to refer students with disabilities for employment at federal worksites throughout the United States. Participating organizations have an interest in placing qualified persons with substantial disabilities in summer and permanent positions. The U.S. Department of Labor’s Office of Disability Employment Policy and the U.S. Department of Defense coordinate the program. A wide variety of other federal agencies also participate in the consortium." The notice goes on to ask students with disabilities from blindness to psychiatric disabilities to apply online and submit resumes and other supporting documents. Apparently, recruiters interview students at their university and enter their information in a federal database; employers can search through applicants information and personally offer employment or internships to students directly. Accommodations are provided by the employer. >From last years data about 25% of applicants were offered some type of employment around the world. Of course, the notice advises students to use this as only one of many opportunities they explore for work. Has anyone ever applied for or been offered summer employment through this service? The idea sounds intriguing enough, but I've never heard of the service and sort of question the competitiveness of the whole thing. Thanks in advance for any insight or information. Brice From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 15:25:51 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 11:25:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B15B231F8484714892E87C855BC9D5D@Rufus> Brice, I know a few people who've been through the program. It's totally legitimate and seems very competitive. My senior year in college my roommate and I tried to get a later interview after we'd missed the one-day window on account of being At Washington Seminar. We thought we had a pretty valid reason, but they wouldn't take us. I should have been sore, but to me this speaks of a program that's got its act together and does not need to make exceptions to be successful. You should definitely apply, and all the best to you in doing so. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:52 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program? Hi, I received an announcement from my University's career center about the "Workforce Recruitment Program." According to the notice, ": The purpose of the program is to refer students with disabilities for employment at federal worksites throughout the United States. Participating organizations have an interest in placing qualified persons with substantial disabilities in summer and permanent positions. The U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy and the U.S. Department of Defense coordinate the program. A wide variety of other federal agencies also participate in the consortium." The notice goes on to ask students with disabilities from blindness to psychiatric disabilities to apply online and submit resumes and other supporting documents. Apparently, recruiters interview students at their university and enter their information in a federal database; employers can search through applicants information and personally offer employment or internships to students directly. Accommodations are provided by the employer. >From last years data about 25% of applicants were offered some type of employment around the world. Of course, the notice advises students to use this as only one of many opportunities they explore for work. Has anyone ever applied for or been offered summer employment through this service? The idea sounds intriguing enough, but I've never heard of the service and sort of question the competitiveness of the whole thing. Thanks in advance for any insight or information. Brice _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From BJLejeune at colled.msstate.edu Mon Oct 4 18:06:53 2010 From: BJLejeune at colled.msstate.edu (B.J. LeJeune) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 13:06:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA9D16D020000F0000F0D2E@mailhost.groupwise.msstate.edu> I recently attended a meeting in Washington where they indicated that this program was going to be growing beyond just Federal Agencies from the DoD as President Obama has ordered all Federal Agencies to have at least 2% of their employees be persons with significant disabilities. In the past two years, I have seen a number of people recruiting for this program from agencies including the State Department , the CIA and NASA. It looks good! BJ >>> Brice Smith 10/4/2010 9:51 AM >>> Hi, I received an announcement from my University's career center about the "Workforce Recruitment Program." According to the notice, ": The purpose of the program is to refer students with disabilities for employment at federal worksites throughout the United States. Participating organizations have an interest in placing qualified persons with substantial disabilities in summer and permanent positions. The U.S. Department of Labor’s Office of Disability Employment Policy and the U.S. Department of Defense coordinate the program. A wide variety of other federal agencies also participate in the consortium." The notice goes on to ask students with disabilities from blindness to psychiatric disabilities to apply online and submit resumes and other supporting documents. Apparently, recruiters interview students at their university and enter their information in a federal database; employers can search through applicants information and personally offer employment or internships to students directly. Accommodations are provided by the employer. >From last years data about 25% of applicants were offered some type of employment around the world. Of course, the notice advises students to use this as only one of many opportunities they explore for work. Has anyone ever applied for or been offered summer employment through this service? The idea sounds intriguing enough, but I've never heard of the service and sort of question the competitiveness of the whole thing. Thanks in advance for any insight or information. Brice _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bjlejeune%40colled.msstate.edu From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 23:36:45 2010 From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 19:36:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers Message-ID: Hi List-ers, I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so forgive me for resurrecting it. Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to require people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a belabored issue. -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-3018 From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 02:00:17 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 19:00:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The drc here requires it which in my opinion is fine but not so fine. I think you should only be aloud to buy the accessibil epub version. S On Oct 4, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Kate Carroll wrote: > Hi List-ers, > > I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so > forgive me for resurrecting it. > > Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to require > people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? > > I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. > > Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a belabored > issue. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > St. John's University College of Law 2013 > 631-521-3018 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 14:05:21 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:05:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will have a more definitive answer for you after the NFB of Virginia Student Luncheon, in November where I will be interviewing the Executive Director of the Association of American Publishers. (For those in the greater Virginia area who wish to come...let me know and I'll get you the details.) For now, though, I can tell you that many publishers require proof of purchase. However, that purchase does not have to be a new book. (They'd prefer that, clearly, as that's the transaction where they reap the financial benefit.) Many will allow you to purchase the book used (as sighted students do) as long as you can provide an original receipt. Or, many publishers do let you do what Sarah referred to -- purchasing the electronic (PDF) version of the book. In any event, you can certianly make the argument to the publisher (as I have done for four years with the help of George Washington University's Disability Support Services office) that any sighted student could purchase a used or electronic version of the book...so why can't I? No publisher has ever opposed that idea to me. Best of luck -- and let me know if I can be of more help! Corbb O'Connor, President Student Division, NFB of Virginia On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > The drc here requires it which in my opinion is fine but not so fine. I think you should only be aloud to buy the accessibil epub version. > > S > On Oct 4, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Kate Carroll wrote: > >> Hi List-ers, >> >> I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so >> forgive me for resurrecting it. >> >> Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to require >> people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? >> >> I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. >> >> Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a belabored >> issue. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> St. John's University College of Law 2013 >> 631-521-3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 15:00:57 2010 From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:00:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, Thanks for your responses! I just want to point out that my question is concerning publishers requiring me to purchase NEW copies of books for which I need the e-files, as opposed to just any copy, used or otherwise, which I am fine with. Thanks, Kate On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Corbbmacc O'Connor wrote: > I will have a more definitive answer for you after the NFB of Virginia > Student Luncheon, in November where I will be interviewing the > Executive Director of the Association of American Publishers. (For > those in the greater Virginia area who wish to come...let me know and > I'll get you the details.) > > For now, though, I can tell you that many publishers require proof of > purchase. However, that purchase does not have to be a new book. > (They'd prefer that, clearly, as that's the transaction where they > reap the financial benefit.) Many will allow you to purchase the book > used (as sighted students do) as long as you can provide an original > receipt. Or, many publishers do let you do what Sarah referred to -- > purchasing the electronic (PDF) version of the book. In any event, you > can certianly make the argument to the publisher (as I have done for > four years with the help of George Washington University's Disability > Support Services office) that any sighted student could purchase a > used or electronic version of the book...so why can't I? No publisher > has ever opposed that idea to me. > > Best of luck -- and let me know if I can be of more help! > > Corbb O'Connor, President > Student Division, NFB of Virginia > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > The drc here requires it which in my opinion is fine but not so fine. I > think you should only be aloud to buy the accessibil epub version. > > > > S > > On Oct 4, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Kate Carroll wrote: > > > >> Hi List-ers, > >> > >> I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so > >> forgive me for resurrecting it. > >> > >> Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to > require > >> people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? > >> > >> I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. > >> > >> Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a > belabored > >> issue. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn CARROLL > >> St. John's University College of Law 2013 > >> 631-521-3018 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com > -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-3018 From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 5 16:59:41 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:59:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] test Message-ID: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96> From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 17:24:31 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:24:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Recruitment and recruitment letters Message-ID: Dear list, I have been placed in charge of writing a recuitment letter that would be sent out to universities, colleges, vocational rehabilitation counselors, and the like for NCABS. Has anyone written a recuitment letter before? What sort of information do you put in these letters. Is there a general format that is good for such letters? If anyone has suggestions, ideas, or advice, feel free to reply here or e-mail me privately. I'm hoping to make this recruitment letter the very best I can, in the hope of attracting more students to our group. Sincerely yours, -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From cbuckley at pdx.edu Tue Oct 5 17:27:30 2010 From: cbuckley at pdx.edu (Chrys Buckley) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:27:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] More Games Stuff In-Reply-To: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96> References: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: <20101005102730.197474e6ldag4s8y@webmail.pdx.edu> Hey fellow students, First of all, thanks to everyone who put in some input on accessible games. All of the information has been really helpful to a project that is all about making virtual science labs more accessible. This project will be presented at Youth Slam next summer, so look out for that! Here is the list of games I got from you guys. Please feel free to add comments about any of them, or add to the list. Any comments about what makes a game easy or difficult to navigate is going to be really helpful! Super Egg Hunt Grizzly Gulch Western Extravaganza Monkey Business* Shades of Doom* (accessible version of the game Doom) Termite Torpedo* ESP pinball Palace Punch-Up Dynoman GMA Tank Commander Pacman (from GMA Games) Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry * These games are said by some players to be confusing and hard to navigate. And just an FYI, card, dice or word games aren't really as helpful (fun as they may be!) as far as the project goes! So again, feel free to add games to the list, or comment on the games that are on the list. Thanks! Chrys From 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu Tue Oct 5 17:32:29 2010 From: 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu (Renee Jones) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:32:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary Message-ID: On 9/24/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dictionary (Mark J. Cadigan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:32:14 -0400 > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dictionary > Message-ID: <70784C941CC54A9C9A48A78DDEEA0B41 at SonyPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > There are several good dictionaries you can get on the computer or on line; > most of them are accessible with a screen reader to some extent. However, if > you are looking for a stand alone dictionary, I would look at the Franklin > language master. It is available at > http://www.franklin.com/estore/dictionary/LM-6000B/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miranda brown" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary > > >> Does anyone know of a good talking dictionary? >> Miranda >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 28 > ************************************** > I agree! The Franklyn Language Master Dictionary is the bomb! From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 17:33:03 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:33:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Recruitment and recruitment letters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jewel, Never mind a letter as a first step. Pick up the phone instead. You'll get a better sense of the college, and if the conversation goes well, you'll have more than enough information to fill a letter. I'm assuming you're calling disability offices? If so, you'll get a better sense of whether or not they're even willing to distribute your letter to students. No sense in wasting time on resources that are not going to bring back a good return. Hope that helps, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:25 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Recruitment and recruitment letters Dear list, I have been placed in charge of writing a recuitment letter that would be sent out to universities, colleges, vocational rehabilitation counselors, and the like for NCABS. Has anyone written a recuitment letter before? What sort of information do you put in these letters. Is there a general format that is good for such letters? If anyone has suggestions, ideas, or advice, feel free to reply here or e-mail me privately. I'm hoping to make this recruitment letter the very best I can, in the hope of attracting more students to our group. Sincerely yours, -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 17:34:41 2010 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:34:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book request from publishers Message-ID: Hi, in order to receive an accessible electronic copy of a "new" textbook, most publishers require a proof of purchase/receipt of the paper copy. In the past, I have purchased the paper copy of the book and made a copy of the receipt for the office of students with disabilities, which deal directly with the publishers, as some publishers will not accept request directly from students. This information may be found on most publisher websites. as an alternative, you can try purchasing an inaccessible electronic copy of the book (this would bring the cost down to almost 50% of the paper copy price) if it is available, and then submitting your receipt to the publisher. I have never tried this method... Alex From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 19:00:26 2010 From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:00:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book request from publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Alex, I bought some used copies of the books because the new price was astronomical. I never thought to just buy the inaccessible electronic version before. On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Alexander Castillo < alexandera.castillo at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, in order to receive an accessible electronic copy of a "new" > textbook, most publishers require a proof of purchase/receipt of the > paper copy. > > In the past, I have purchased the paper copy of the book and made a > copy of the receipt for the office of students with disabilities, > which deal directly with the publishers, as some publishers will not > accept request directly from students. This information may be found > on most publisher websites. > > as an alternative, you can try purchasing an inaccessible electronic > copy of the book (this would bring the cost down to almost 50% of the > paper copy price) if it is available, and then submitting your receipt > to the publisher. I have never tried this method... > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com > -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-3018 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 19:03:01 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:03:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Recruitment and recruitment letters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, I was going to call them, of course. At the next conference call, I plan on asking for volunteers and splitting up all the numbers among those of us who are doing it to call around. I just want to have something to send soon after calling, like same day. On 10/5/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > Never mind a letter as a first step. Pick up the phone instead. You'll get > a better sense of the college, and if the conversation goes well, you'll > have more than enough information to fill a letter. I'm assuming you're > calling disability offices? If so, you'll get a better sense of whether or > not they're even willing to distribute your letter to students. No sense in > wasting time on resources that are not going to bring back a good return. > > Hope that helps, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:25 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Recruitment and recruitment letters > > Dear list, > I have been placed in charge of writing a recuitment letter that would > be sent out to universities, colleges, vocational rehabilitation > counselors, and the like for NCABS. Has anyone written a recuitment > letter before? What sort of information do you put in these letters. > Is there a general format that is good for such letters? > > If anyone has suggestions, ideas, or advice, feel free to reply here > or e-mail me privately. I'm hoping to make this recruitment letter the > very best I can, in the hope of attracting more students to our group. > > Sincerely yours, > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu Tue Oct 5 19:07:13 2010 From: 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu (Renee Jones) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 14:07:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Embossing Problem, need any help? Message-ID: On 9/26/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: embossing problem: any help? (Dennis Clark) > 2. Fw: math textbook question (Nicole B. Torcolini) > 3. Re: Fw: math textbook question (Mikaela Stevens) > 4. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Kirt Manwaring) > 5. Re: Accessible Games (Joe Orozco) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:02:06 -0700 > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] embossing problem: any help? > Message-ID: <3a7801cb5ce4$2619b930$6601a8c0 at server> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello, > This is just a guess. I think the handshaking between your printer and > computer are not set correctly or are not functioning. The computer can > send data to your printer much faster than your printer can print. > Handshaking is the way the printer tells the computer once the printers > buffer is full, to pause sending data until the printer empties its buffer > and gets caught up. At that point the printer tells the computer that it > has caught up, so send some more data until the printer again tells the > computer to stop sending. > > There are 2 kinds of handshaking, hardware and software. Hardware > handshaking is done over 2 wires in the cable which connects to the printer. > Software handshaking is done by the printer sending a particular computer > character, control x or control y, to the computer, which essentially says, > please send data, or please stop sending data until I get caught up. > > Both the computer and printer need to be set to use handshaking, and they > each need to be set to use the same handshaking, either hardware or > software. Did this ever work correctly, and if so, what might have happened > which could have cause any settings to have been changed? Please feel free > to send me more information or questions. > Best, > Dennis > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Winy Kwany" > To: ; ; > ; ; > ; > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:00 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] embossing problem: any help? > > >> Hi all, >> I appologize if this sounds out of topic, but I do need help. I decide to >> post on this list just to find any possibilities to get any help. >> I use a desktop computer with Windows XP operating system, Duxbury 10.3, >> JAWS 10 and Index Basic 4.40 embosser that connects with a LPT port to the >> >> computer. I have problem in embossing my files. I use double >> sided/interpoint format to emboss. When I emboss, the first two pages look >> >> fine, but when come to third and fourth page, the embosser embossed >> something else that's very different from the content of the file. It's >> unreadable since the dots form neither words or sentences. The fifth and >> sixth page is fine, but it doesn't continue to emboss those who were not >> in the third and fourth. It's embossing its continuation. So, it means >> that I do lose content in third and fourth page. This pattern is >> repeatedly again: unreadable in the seventh and eighth page, fine in ninth >> >> and tenth, and it's on and on. I tried to use Comment Prompt to emboss the >> >> file instead of Duxbury, and the similar problem occurs. Any suggestions, >> ideas and help how to solve this? Any >> special setting that I should do to avoid this pattern? This never >> happened when I used Duxbury 10.4. They changed the software without >> letting me know. This also doesn't happen to one file. It happens to any >> BRF or DXB files that I have. >> I look forward to hearing from you very soon. Please give me feetback asap >> >> since I need to emboss materials and exercises urgently. Many thanks. >> Winy. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 18:17:16 -0700 > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "NABS-L" > Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: math textbook question > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini > To: solsticesinger > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question > > > Are you a college student? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: solsticesinger > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question > > > Rachel, > > I would suggest a reader, since it seems the only viable option. You might > talk to the disability services department at your school, and see if > they'll put the diagrams into some sort of tactile format for you. > > Good luck. > > Shannon > Are you a fan of women's music? If so, check out the Eclectic Collection: > A > Celebration of Women In Music, each Wednesday evening from 7 to 9 eastern. > www.radio360.us > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Becker" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:15 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] math textbook question > > > What do you do when you have to take a math class and can't find the > textbook in Braille? I searched the APH Louis database for the book but > it's > not there. One source said that it will cost $6000 to get the chapters > that > I need Brailled. The state agency suggested that I use a reader. Do you > think that using a reader would be a good solution for working with > diagrams? Do you have any sugestions for dealing with a situation like > this? > Thanks. > Rachel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 22:14:14 -0600 > From: Mikaela Stevens > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fw: math textbook question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Yes I am a college student. This math class is for my associates. > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini < > ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote: > >> Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Nicole B. Torcolini >> To: solsticesinger >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 6:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question >> >> >> Are you a college student? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: solsticesinger >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question >> >> >> Rachel, >> >> I would suggest a reader, since it seems the only viable option. You >> might >> talk to the disability services department at your school, and see if >> they'll put the diagrams into some sort of tactile format for you. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Shannon >> Are you a fan of women's music? If so, check out the Eclectic Collection: >> A >> Celebration of Women In Music, each Wednesday evening from 7 to 9 >> eastern. >> www.radio360.us >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rachel Becker" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:15 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] math textbook question >> >> >> What do you do when you have to take a math class and can't find the >> textbook in Braille? I searched the APH Louis database for the book but >> it's >> not there. One source said that it will cost $6000 to get the chapters >> that >> I need Brailled. The state agency suggested that I use a reader. Do you >> think that using a reader would be a good solution for working with >> diagrams? Do you have any sugestions for dealing with a situation like >> this? >> Thanks. >> Rachel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Mikaela Stevens > BYU-Idaho Student > 208-585-8468 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 22:31:00 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > It's true that incredible progress has been made in terms of social > attitudes towards blind people. And, I agree that if we're looking at > other civil rights' movements as a model, we can make so much more > incredible progress. But I don't ever see a time where negative > stereotypes about blind people are completely gone. I just don't. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 9/25/10, Marc Workman wrote: >> For me, Kirt, the key sentence in your response is the following: >> >> Because we live in such a social world, I think it's fair to say those >> social attitudes are, unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. >> >> There's a bit of ambiguity here. If you mean such attitudes are a part of >> our society today, at this moment, then I doubt that many would disagree. >> But if you mean that such attitudes are necessarily, inevitably, must >> always >> be, a part of our society, then this is the point of disagreement I think. >> I don't think such attitudes are necessarily part of our society. There >> is >> evidence drawn from other civil rights movements, and from the organized >> blind movement itself, that significant progress can be, and still is >> being, >> made. >> >> So in so far as an article like the one in question fails to emphasize the >> social barriers that impede the success of blind people, it is problematic >> and should be questioned and challenged. Note the phrase, in so far as. >> I >> don't think anyone is saying that the article can't be helpful in some >> ways. >> This article might inspire a blind person who has come to believe that she >> is inadequate and can't do anything, or the article might cause some >> employers to judge potential employees based on their skills, as did the >> employer in the article. However, these possible benefits of such an >> article do not mean that there aren't serious problems with it as well. >> Whether an article like this does more harm than good, I'm not sure if any >> critical comments have claimed, so I think that's still an open question. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kirt Manwaring" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>> Darrel, >>> You said exactly what I wanted to. You're just better at it. >>> Jedi, >>> Fair enough, but you needed the training, even if the hardest part >>> was overcoming the stereotypes. Because we live in such a social >>> world, I think it's fair to say those social attitudes are, >>> unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. There's no way a >>> blind person's not going to encounter those so, to me, that's a part >>> of blindness. Which means, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had >>> stereotypes to get past the typical sighted person does not. In that >>> way, there was an extra step in you learning how to cook. So...I'm >>> not trying to generalize how quickly you learn how to cook, I'm just >>> saying blindness presents an extra challenge with it, even if that >>> challenge for you was mostly psychological. Am I making any sense? >>> Respectfully yours, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 9/25/10, darrel kirby wrote: >>>> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting. >>>> I >>>> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >>>> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >>>> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >>>> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >>>> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education >>>> and >>>> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >>>> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my job well >>>> and >>>> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness >>>> is >>>> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >>>> >>>> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I >>>> thought >>>> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very impressive. I >>>> also >>>> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >>>> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the >>>> teaching >>>> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >>>> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized >>>> the >>>> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this >>>> woman's >>>> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >>>> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do >>>> not >>>> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >>>> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I >>>> think >>>> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >>>> whether she has sight or not. >>>> With all that being said, the author of the article should not be >>>> expected >>>> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one >>>> blind >>>> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual >>>> and >>>> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the >>>> perfectly >>>> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >>>> inspirational >>>> and educational article to read. >>>> >>>> Just My Opinion, >>>> >>>> Darrel Kirby >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Mary Fernandez >>>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> Hey all, >>>> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >>>> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. >>>> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >>>> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >>>> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really >>>> have >>>> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article >>>> in >>>> >>>> my >>>> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >>>> assistants >>>> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands >>>> out >>>> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >>>> searching >>>> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >>>> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >>>> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >>>> Mary >>>> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >>>> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and >>>> that >>>> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home >>>> in >>>> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move >>>> around >>>> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty >>>> southward >>>> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the >>>> article >>>> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >>>> between her real capability and what people really think blindness is >>>> all >>>> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >>>> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >>>> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Hello Andy, >>>>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in >>>>>> my >>>>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are >>>> ever >>>>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. >>>>>> Blindness >>>> is >>>>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When >>>>>> I >>>>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >>>> proponent >>>>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person >>>>>> is >>>>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >>>> those >>>>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and >>>> this >>>>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >>>>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know >>>>>> that >>>>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >>>> never >>>>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>>>> Happy cooking, >>>>>> Dennis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Andi" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>> been >>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>> someone >>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>> blind >>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>> about >>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>> the quad-city times >>>>> >>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>>> >>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> >>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>>> >>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>> atop >>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>>> grater. >>>>> >>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>>> >>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>>> >>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>>> >>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>>> >>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>>> >>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>>> feels >>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>>> >>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because >>>>>>> she >>>> is >>>>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>> exclusive >>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>>> >>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>>> >>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>>> >>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>>> >>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>> her blindness. >>>>> >>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>> treat >>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>>> >>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>>> >>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>>> early >>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> special >>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>>> >>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>> English >>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>> age of 10. >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>> remain >>>>>>> very close. >>>>> >>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>> situations >>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> other people >>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>> father. >>>>> >>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>> quiet, >>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>> different >>>>>>> skin >>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> school. >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>>> told >>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>>> >>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk >>>>>>> or >>>> do >>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>>> >>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>>> >>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>>> for >>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>>> >>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>>> >>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>>> >>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>>> challenge. >>>>> >>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>>> >>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>> students >>>> but >>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>>> vice >>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>>>> tough. >>>>> >>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>>> came >>>> to >>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>>> school had >>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>>> >>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>> impact >>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>> could >>>>>>> present >>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>>> way >>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>>> >>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>> at home. >>>>> >>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>> said. >>>>> >>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>> desire" >>>> to >>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>> focus >>>>>>> via >>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>>> >>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>> describe >>>> it >>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>>>> She >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>>> >>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>> that's >>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>>> >>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> Braille. >>>>> >>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>>> meat >>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>>> >>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>> debone >>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>>> feel >>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>> where >>>>>>> and what >>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>>> >>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>>> said. >>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>>> >>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>> News" >>>> to >>>>>>> feature >>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>>> >>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> some advice. >>>>> >>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>>> that, >>>>>>> least of >>>>>>> all Martinez. >>>>> >>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>>> >>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>> said >>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>>> >>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>>> >>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>>> began >>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>> kitchen >>>>>>> and the >>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>>> >>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>> sniffing >>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>> Moline. >>>>> >>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for >>>>>>> just >>>> the >>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>>> >>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>>> >>>>>>> Still dreaming >>>>> >>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>>> >>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>>> >>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>>> >>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>>> but >>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>>> give >>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>>> >>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering >>>>>>> a >>>> mix >>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>>> place >>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>>> >>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>>> >>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>> she added. >>>>> >>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would >>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>> >>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>> >>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>> was about five. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>> I'll >>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>> it from you." >>>>> >>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>>>> it! >>>>> >>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>> with >>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>> fine >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>>> able >>>> to >>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> mind >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>> make >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>> though >>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> held >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories >>>>>>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>> them >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>> people >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of >>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>>>> brought >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40g >>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcgl >>>> obal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>>> bile.net >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail. >>>> com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%40mchsi.com >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >>>> 12:16:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:47:30 -0400 > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: <6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9 at Rufus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely sold > on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, but > the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think > it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of enjoyment > may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of luck > in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good uses > for your laboratories. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > Hi NABS list, > > Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, > please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility > project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if > you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! > > > My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a > software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual > science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a > big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would > play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen > every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are > unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a > good model. > > So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey > the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the > development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just > not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! > > This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's > Youth Slam! > > Thanks, > Chrys > > > > http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 31 > ************************************** > What's up Dennis! Thanks for that info about the difference between Hardware and Sofftware Handshaking. I didn't know that! From dandrews at visi.com Tue Oct 5 22:05:07 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 17:05:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know what the "legal" stance would be, it may depend on your state law -- but it doesn't seem unreasonable. You wouldn't go to a restaurant and expect to eat for free. The publisher should get something for providing you with the files. Dave At 06:36 PM 10/4/2010, you wrote: >Hi List-ers, > >I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so >forgive me for resurrecting it. > >Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to require >people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? > >I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. > >Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a belabored >issue. > >-- >Kathryn CARROLL >St. John's University College of Law 2013 >631-521-3018 David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 22:57:43 2010 From: dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 18:57:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary Message-ID: <4cabad71.10ecd80a.398c.0533@mx.google.com> Hi, If you want a dictionary that you don't have to go on the internet for, I'd recommend Word Web. I know it works pretty good with jaws, so I'm assuming it works good with other screen readers, too. If you google word web, it should come up. Danielle ----- Original Message ----- From: Renee Jones <1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:32:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dictionary On 9/24/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dictionary (Mark J. Cadigan) ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:32:14 -0400 From: "Mark J. Cadigan" References: Message-ID: Hi Dave, I completely agree with your point about paying for the services provided by publishers. My question concerned whether they could require students to buy NEW textbooks in order to get electronic files, as opposed to a USED copy of a textbook. Kate On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:05 PM, David Andrews wrote: > I don't know what the "legal" stance would be, it may depend on your state > law -- but it doesn't seem unreasonable. You wouldn't go to a restaurant > and expect to eat for free. The publisher should get something for > providing you with the files. > > Dave > > > At 06:36 PM 10/4/2010, you wrote: > >> Hi List-ers, >> >> I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so >> forgive me for resurrecting it. >> >> Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to >> require >> people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? >> >> I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. >> >> Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a >> belabored >> issue. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> St. John's University College of Law 2013 >> 631-521-3018 >> > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com > -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-3018 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 00:59:44 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:59:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Blindtlk] NBP's new website now live! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tony Grima Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:50:14 -0500 Subject: [Blindtlk] NBP's new website now live! To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org Hello - last week we mentioned that National Braille Press would be launching a newly designed website this week - and it is now up and running! Below are some helpful navigational tips written by a screen reader user. Start by visiting the site at: http://www.nbp.org Welcome to NBP's newly re-designed website. We know you will want to find some of the new features and navigational enhancements yourself, but here are a few tips to get you started. Many of the options with which you are already familiar are the same, including the search box for finding books, the option to customize the site by color preference, and the site map. We have added heading navigation to make it easier to find the sections of the website you want to browse. With most screen readers, you can press "h" on any page of our site and reach one of the primary categories on the page, and, if your screen reader supports it, you can even browse by heading level. You can also now bring up a list of headings by pressing "JAWS key plus 6), if using JAWS or insert key plus tab, if using Window-eyes, and selecting headings from the resulting list. In addition to finding the website content you want by using your screen reader's find command, perusing the list of links, or reading the whole page with the say-all command, you can easily reach the "Braille bookstore", "Programs" page, "Custom Education Services", "Accessible Business Services", and the "Get Involved " sections of the website by browsing by headings. From the home page, the bookstore is the first heading you will fine from the top of the page. If you press the enter key on that link and then go to the "braille bookstore" heading on the next page, you will be able to enter on links to browse books by category, browse all books, or contact our customer service department. Below the links for those categories, you can read about the Children's Braille Book Club, check to see what is "Hot Off the Press", or learn about E-braille format, among other choices. Similarly, if you press the enter key on the "Programs" heading, and then locate the "programs" heading toward the top of the page that loads, you will be able to locate information about our ReadBooks! program, the Braille Center for Innovation, our Touch of Genius Prize, and our Lifelong Literacy section. You can keep up with events at National Braille Press or check out the latest stories about NBP by choosing the "events" or "news media" links. You can also view some of the videos on the site by entering on the "videos" link. Some of the sections of the website have new names. The Textbooks and Tests section has now been re-named and is found in our "custom Education Services" section. Braille Production Services has now become "Accessible Business Services", Ways to Give is now "Get involved", and "About us" has replaced "Who We Are." We hope you will enjoy our newly expanded website and hope that it will help you to keep current with all of the happenings at National Braille Press. _______________________________________________ Nbp mailing list Nbp at nbp.org PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . Visit us at http://www.nbp.org _______________________________________________ blindtlk mailing list blindtlk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 01:06:41 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 21:06:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Blindtlk] NBP's new website now live! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tested out the new website, but had several problems with it which I'll be contacting them about. I went to buy some Braille books and get a catalog as well. I put them in my shopping cart with the Ad to Cart button, but in the shopping cart was...nothing. Also, every time I clicked on a link, when it loaded it automatically went to the very bottom of the page (not nearly as bad of an issue). Other than those two issues, the new site looks great. I had no problem browsing through books and other NBP products. The headings made it very easy to jump around and take a look at whatever I wanted. My two cents, On 10/5/10, Darian Smith wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tony Grima > Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:50:14 -0500 > Subject: [Blindtlk] NBP's new website now live! > To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org > > Hello - last week we mentioned that National Braille Press would be > launching a newly designed website this week - and it is now up and > running! Below are some helpful navigational tips written by a screen > reader user. Start by visiting the site at: > http://www.nbp.org > > Welcome to NBP's newly re-designed website. We know you will want to > find some of the new features and navigational enhancements yourself, > but here are a few tips to get you started. > Many of the options with which you are already familiar are the same, > including the search box for finding books, the option to customize the > site by color preference, and the site map. > > We have added heading navigation to make it easier to find the sections > of the website you want to browse. With most screen readers, you can > press "h" on any page of our site and reach one of the primary > categories on the page, and, if your screen reader supports it, you can > even browse by heading level. You can also now bring up a list of > headings by pressing "JAWS key plus 6), if using JAWS or insert key plus > tab, if using Window-eyes, and selecting headings from the resulting > list. > > In addition to finding the website content you want by using your screen > reader's find command, perusing the list of links, or reading the whole > page with the say-all command, you can easily reach the "Braille > bookstore", "Programs" page, "Custom Education Services", "Accessible > Business Services", and the "Get Involved " sections of the website by > browsing by headings. From the home page, the bookstore is the first > heading you will fine from the top of the page. If you press the enter > key on that link and then go to the "braille bookstore" heading on the > next page, you will be able to enter on links to browse books by > category, browse all books, or contact our customer service department. > > Below the links for those categories, you can read about the Children's > Braille Book Club, check to see what is "Hot Off the Press", or learn > about E-braille format, among other choices. > Similarly, if you press the enter key on the "Programs" heading, and > then locate the "programs" heading toward the top of the page that > loads, you will be able to locate information about our ReadBooks! > program, the Braille Center for Innovation, our Touch of Genius Prize, > and our Lifelong Literacy section. > > You can keep up with events at National Braille Press or check out the > latest stories about NBP by choosing the "events" or "news media" links. > You can also view some of the videos on the site by entering on the > "videos" link. > > Some of the sections of the website have new names. The Textbooks and > Tests section has now been re-named and is found in our "custom > Education Services" section. Braille Production Services has now become > "Accessible Business Services", Ways to Give is now "Get involved", and > "About us" has replaced "Who We Are." > > We hope you will enjoy our newly expanded website and hope that it will > help you to keep current with all of the happenings at National Braille > Press. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nbp mailing list > Nbp at nbp.org > > PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and > your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . > > Visit us at http://www.nbp.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindtlk mailing list > blindtlk at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindtlk: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Oct 6 01:36:27 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:36:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know about "requiring" but they derive no benefit from a transaction for a used book, so from their point of view they received nothing. So, if they require a purchase to release electronic files, then yes they can require you to purchase a new book. That is their business and interest after all -- selling new books in one form or another. Dave At 06:56 PM 10/5/2010, you wrote: >Hi Dave, > >I completely agree with your point about paying for the services provided by >publishers. My question concerned whether they could require students to buy >NEW textbooks in order to get electronic files, as opposed to a USED copy of >a textbook. > >Kate > >On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:05 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > I don't know what the "legal" stance would be, it may depend on your state > > law -- but it doesn't seem unreasonable. You wouldn't go to a restaurant > > and expect to eat for free. The publisher should get something for > > providing you with the files. > > > > Dave > > > > > > At 06:36 PM 10/4/2010, you wrote: > > > >> Hi List-ers, > >> > >> I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so > >> forgive me for resurrecting it. > >> > >> Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to > >> require > >> people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible e-files? > >> > >> I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. > >> > >> Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a > >> belabored > >> issue. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn CARROLL > >> St. John's University College of Law 2013 > >> 631-521-3018 > >> > > > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com > > > > > >-- >Kathryn CARROLL >St. John's University College of Law 2013 >631-521-3018 >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 5506 (20101005) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 6 02:31:08 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:31:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers References: Message-ID: <002501cb64fe$896fafe0$6601a8c0@server> Hello Dave, Based on the sale of the print book to the blind reader, should the publisher then be required to supply a complete book in the electronic copy, with page numbers, tables, diagrams using Braille raised line drawings, etc? If not , then why not? Is it acceptable for us to be required to purchase a book from the publisher at full retail price which is only a portion of that sold to sighted readers? To make certain there is no confusion here, I have no problem paying the publisher full retail price for the book and in exchange, we should receive complete access to all the intellectual property contained in the book. This is not what is being supplied currently. Just one lawyers opinion. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers >I don't know about "requiring" but they derive no benefit from a >transaction for a used book, so from their point of view they received >nothing. So, if they require a purchase to release electronic files, then >yes they can require you to purchase a new book. That is their business >and interest after all -- selling new books in one form or another. > > Dave > > At 06:56 PM 10/5/2010, you wrote: >>Hi Dave, >> >>I completely agree with your point about paying for the services provided >>by >>publishers. My question concerned whether they could require students to >>buy >>NEW textbooks in order to get electronic files, as opposed to a USED copy >>of >>a textbook. >> >>Kate >> >>On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:05 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >> > I don't know what the "legal" stance would be, it may depend on your >> > state >> > law -- but it doesn't seem unreasonable. You wouldn't go to a >> > restaurant >> > and expect to eat for free. The publisher should get something for >> > providing you with the files. >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > >> > At 06:36 PM 10/4/2010, you wrote: >> > >> >> Hi List-ers, >> >> >> >> I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so >> >> forgive me for resurrecting it. >> >> >> >> Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to >> >> require >> >> people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible >> >> e-files? >> >> >> >> I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. >> >> >> >> Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a >> >> belabored >> >> issue. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Kathryn CARROLL >> >> St. John's University College of Law 2013 >> >> 631-521-3018 >> >> >> > >> > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >> > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> >>-- >>Kathryn CARROLL >>St. John's University College of Law 2013 >>631-521-3018 >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 5506 (20101005) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Oct 6 03:08:02 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:08:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary References: <4cabad71.10ecd80a.398c.0533@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2B53B42BC3F74AA696E3A8A61920BF40@Ashley> Where do you get Word Web and does that cost anything to get and use? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Montour" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dictionary > Hi, > If you want a dictionary that you don't have to go on the internet for, > I'd recommend Word Web. I know it works pretty good with jaws, so I'm > assuming it works good with other screen readers, too. If you google word > web, it should come up. > > Danielle > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Renee Jones <1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:32:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dictionary > > On 9/24/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dictionary (Mark J. Cadigan) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:32:14 -0400 > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dictionary > Message-ID: <70784C941CC54A9C9A48A78DDEEA0B41 at SonyPC > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > There are several good dictionaries you can get on the computer or on > line; > most of them are accessible with a screen reader to some extent. However, > if > you are looking for a stand alone dictionary, I would look at the Franklin > language master. It is available at > http://www.franklin.com/estore/dictionary/LM-6000B/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miranda brown" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary > > > Does anyone know of a good talking dictionary? > Miranda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%4 > 0gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 28 > ************************************** > > I agree! The Franklyn Language Master Dictionary is the bomb! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dannivoic > eangel333%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 03:30:27 2010 From: dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:30:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary Message-ID: <4cabed5d.9c7bdc0a.3ca2.0d11@mx.google.com> Hi, I hadn't looked into this for a while, but there's a free version of word web 6, which includes audio pronunciations. As far as I know, it works with screen readers. I'll download it tomorrow on my new laptop and see. Danielle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" ; Hi, Sorry, I forgot to put in the url: www.wordweb.info/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" ; National Association of Blind Students >From the Desk of the President October 5, 2010 1. NABS Reps are Here for You! 2. This Month's Conference Call: Science and More! 3. NABS Kicks off Pennies for Pages Fund-Raiser! 4. Announcement from Virginia! 5. Minutes from Last NABS Board Meeting! NABS Reps are Here for You! Are you hoping to organize a new student division at your state convention this year? Is your division looking for new ideas or planning a change of leadership? Are you looking for advice from someone who is experienced in organizing and leading student divisions? The NABS board are here to help! Our NABS officers travel across the country each year attending many of our NFB state conventions and helping your state divisions connect with the national NABS. If you would like to have a NABS board representative come to your next state convention, student seminar, or other event, you can request a NABS rep by going to our website, www.nabslink.org and filling out the online form. Also, check out the "About Us" page of our website to find out which NABS board member is assigned to your state. This Month’s Conference Calls: Science and More! **This month we will be having two conference calls: one for blind students and one for their parents! Below is information about the student call; information about the parent call will be sent out in a separate message. Attention All Students! Ever been curious about what majors and specializations blind individuals have had in the past? Have you ever felt like learning about fields such as Science, Technology, Engineering and Math- (STEM), are “too difficult”? Do alternative techniques a blind person may use in such fields just baffle you? If any of the above apply to you- Please attend the Membership phone call, presented by the Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students. We are going to cover concerns, techniques, and generalized information about how blind students can participate on equal terms with their sighted peers, even when focusing on STEM fields. Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010 When: 7 pm EST # Where: NABS conference line- (712)775-7100 Code: 257963#. Why: TO learn and network with other blind students who wish to pursuer careers, or just get to know about opportunities in the STEM fields for the blind. We will discuss items such as the NASA Excel program, Youth Slam, the Junior Science Academy, etc… We are open to all types of technique questions, resource question, to be answered by the guest speaker and the committee. Hope to see you there! Sincerely, Membership Committee National Association of Blind Students 3. NABS Kicks off Pennies for Pages 2010-2011! Sean Whalen, second vice-president of NABS, writes: Greetings to all members and friends of NABS, I am writing to announce and solicit your participation in an exciting fundraising effort that the National Association of Blind Students is currently undertaking. The fundraiser is our second annual Pennies for Pages, and is being run in conjunction with the NFB’s Braille Readers are Leaders contest. We believe that this fundraiser has a lot of potential. However, in order to realize this potential, we need help from all of you! The idea is this. Students, or anybody else who is interested in helping to raise money for Braille literacy and our national and state student divisions, can sign up to participate in the Braille Readers are Leaders program and then solicit donations from friends, family, or anybody really, for Braille pages read throughout the duration of the contest. Of course, donations of fixed sums are also gratefully accepted. If you are already participating in either the K-12 or Adult Braille Readers are Leaders contests, you can simply register with NABS as a reader and find people to sponsor you for each page you read. To register as a reader with NABS, please fill the online form at: www.nabslink.org/pennies_for_pages/pennies_form.php Or contact Sean Whalen at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. If you are not yet signed up for the contest, no worries! The reading contest runs from November 1, 2010 through January 4, 2011, and registration for Braille Readers are Leaders is open now, and will remain open throughout the duration of the contest. To register for either the K-12 or Adult Braille Readers are Leaders Contests, please go to www.nfb.org/bral. And, remember, once you have registered for the contest, sign up with NABS to participate in our Pennies for Pages fundraising effort! If, rather than registering as a reader, you would like to support NABS’ efforts by sponsoring a reader, or making a fixed donation, please either register as a sponsor at: www.nabslink.org/pennies_for_pages/pennies_form.php or contact Sean Whalen at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. Donations can be accepted in cash or as checks made out to the National Association of Blind Students and can be given to our Treasurer, Nijat Worley, either in person at Washington Seminar or sent, via postal mail, to: Nijat Worley 2905 East College Ave, Unit 106 Boulder, CO 80303 If you wish to participate or have any questions at all about the plan, please contact Sean Whalen at either 608-332-4147 or smwhalenpsp at gmail.com. I will be compiling the list of participants and would be happy to answer any questions which anybody might have. Any money we raise through Pennies for Pages will be shared, in equal portions, between NABS, the National Association to Promote the Use of Braille, and the state student divisions (or affiliates) in which the readers reside. NABS looks forward to working together to raise money for, and promote awareness of, Braille literacy! Sincerely, Sean Whalen 4. Announcement from Virginia: Accessible technology is helpful, but it can be hard to learn how students use it in the classroom. Orientation and mobility training is useful, but many students aren't sure how to apply their skills to new surroundings...especially a busy mass-transit system like that in the greater Washington, DC area. And working to get electronic textbooks can make the already burdensome life a student even more hectic. Well at this year's NFB of Virginia convention, students will gain hands-on experience, access to successful students, and directly applicable strategies for all of these situations. Our convention will be held November 12-14 at the Marriott Fairview Park in Falls Church, in Northern Virginia just outside Washington, DC. We welcome all students -- from junior high through graduate school -- to learn with us. We will have a set of activities that parallel the state convention, so students will get the most of the general sessions and specific student-focused activities. For details and to register, please contact Student Division President Corbb O'Connor at corbbo at gmail.com or (202) 684-6130. If finances are tough for you and your family, please let us know. We will work with you to make the convention experience possible. We look forward to seeing you in Falls Church! 5. Minutes from Last NABS Board Meeting: The NABS board meets by monthly teleconference to discuss and plan upcoming NABS programs and activities. In order to let you be better informed about what we are doing, we decided to start attaching the minutes from each board meeting to the following month’s bulletin, beginning with October. The minutes are attached to this email. If you have any questions or suggestions for items that you’d like us to discuss in future meetings, feel free to write to me directly at Nabs.president at gmail.com On 10/2/10, Darian Smith wrote: > Greetings Nabsters > The Nabs board is busily making plans to aquire auction items for > this January’s Washington seminar, and is seeking assistance from > you! > If you know of any contacts, or just want to help out with gathering > contacts and items, you are welcome to join us on an organizing > conference call tomorrow. > Date: 10/3/10 > Time:5:30 p.m. EST > Where: Conference call (712) 775-7100 passcode”257963 > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > Fabs mailing list > Fabs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/fabs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Fabs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/fabs_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NABS Minutes 9-26.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 12530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 05:32:02 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 01:32:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Using a Mouse as a Blind Individual Message-ID: Dear list, Have you ever considred using a mouse as a blind individual? I haven't...I mean, what's the point of using a mouse if you can't see the pointer, right? Wrong! Today, I found a new reason to use NVDA...not instead of JAWS, but at the same time as JAWS. No, I'm not using two voices together (have you ever done that accidentally? It's hard to understand anything because of the dual voices). I set NVDA to silent (Insert + N, Preferences, Synthesizer, then chose Silent from the first menu). Keep your JAWS running (or if you use NVDA or another as your primary, keep that voice going...you'll need it still!). Now, go into Mouse Setting (Insert + N, Preferences, Mouse Settings). Here, you can tell it to use audio coordinates, speak when you're over text (character, word, line, paragraph), speak when you're over an icon (like on the desktop), and it will also speak that you are over a link, button, or other element. Now, this next part is for people with some residual vision. No, you don't have to have much. My vision is 3/350 in one eye and light perception only in the other, so if your vision is better than mine, you'll likely benefit from this. In Control Panel, go to your mouse settings (this is different depending on which system you have. I type mouse in the search box, but I have Windows 7). You'll probably want to have high contrast, so if you have a black on white theme, pick the extra large black mouse. If you have white on black like I do, which is higher contrast, choose the extra large white mouse pointer (this is in pointer option). Check the box for it to locate the mouse when you press control, and give the mouse a trail for extra size (for me, this makes the mouse look like it's moving, which is a need of mine, since I have trouble seeing things that are not moving). You can give the mouse just a little trail or a very long tail, depending on your preferences. You'll also want to change the speed to 10 percent (the slowest speed) until you get good at moving the mouse, as the faster the mouse, the harder it is to be accurate. Now, with your black background and white mouse, or white background and black mouse, look closely at the desktop. Press the control key to locate the mouse, or move it around to listen to what NVDA says. It will tell you when you are getting close to icons. The higher and louder the beep, the closer to an icon or window. Using these tools, I was able to click and drag a window, choose a colour from a color wheel, and click an inaccessible drop-down menu. It wasn't easy, and it probably took me about 5 times as long as a sighted person would take (maybe longer), but I did it, and thus many previously inaccessible sites and features of programs are not accessible to me, and they can be to you, too! Even if you don't have any sight at all, NVDA's mouse features will allow you to, with a bit of practice, manuever around the desktop and click inaccessible items with your mouse! I hope you find this helpful, and I'd love to hear how it goes for you guys. If this is something that everyone except me already knew about, sorry. I'm just so excited that I can use a mouse again after 2 years (since I lost my sight), and I wanted to share with you guys. Good luck and have funm, -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Oct 6 11:36:21 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 07:36:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Using a Mouse as a Blind Individual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EF91311896147DEB19AF4C948DCE2D2@AnitaAdkinsPC> How about for playing games; I have not done this, but it seems as if I have heard of some games that use a mouse during play that is adapted for the blind. And, it could be a great tool if a travel instructor adapted a game where the mouse was used to teach cardinal directions and could work with an audio game where the person moved north by moving the mouse away from the user, south for toward the user, left for west, and right for east. Just an idea I just now thought of, and so sorry if it is lame. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 1:32 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Using a Mouse as a Blind Individual > Dear list, > Have you ever considred using a mouse as a blind individual? I > haven't...I mean, what's the point of using a mouse if you can't see > the pointer, right? Wrong! > > Today, I found a new reason to use NVDA...not instead of JAWS, but at > the same time as JAWS. No, I'm not using two voices together (have you > ever done that accidentally? It's hard to understand anything because > of the dual voices). I set NVDA to silent (Insert + N, Preferences, > Synthesizer, then chose Silent from the first menu). Keep your JAWS > running (or if you use NVDA or another as your primary, keep that > voice going...you'll need it still!). Now, go into Mouse Setting > (Insert + N, Preferences, Mouse Settings). Here, you can tell it to > use audio coordinates, speak when you're over text (character, word, > line, paragraph), speak when you're over an icon (like on the > desktop), and it will also speak that you are over a link, button, or > other element. > > Now, this next part is for people with some residual vision. No, you > don't have to have much. My vision is 3/350 in one eye and light > perception only in the other, so if your vision is better than mine, > you'll likely benefit from this. > > In Control Panel, go to your mouse settings (this is different > depending on which system you have. I type mouse in the search box, > but I have Windows 7). You'll probably want to have high contrast, so > if you have a black on white theme, pick the extra large black mouse. > If you have white on black like I do, which is higher contrast, choose > the extra large white mouse pointer (this is in pointer option). Check > the box for it to locate the mouse when you press control, and give > the mouse a trail for extra size (for me, this makes the mouse look > like it's moving, which is a need of mine, since I have trouble seeing > things that are not moving). You can give the mouse just a little > trail or a very long tail, depending on your preferences. You'll also > want to change the speed to 10 percent (the slowest speed) until you > get good at moving the mouse, as the faster the mouse, the harder it > is to be accurate. > > Now, with your black background and white mouse, or white background > and black mouse, look closely at the desktop. Press the control key to > locate the mouse, or move it around to listen to what NVDA says. It > will tell you when you are getting close to icons. The higher and > louder the beep, the closer to an icon or window. > > Using these tools, I was able to click and drag a window, choose a > colour from a color wheel, and click an inaccessible drop-down menu. > It wasn't easy, and it probably took me about 5 times as long as a > sighted person would take (maybe longer), but I did it, and thus many > previously inaccessible sites and features of programs are not > accessible to me, and they can be to you, too! Even if you don't have > any sight at all, NVDA's mouse features will allow you to, with a bit > of practice, manuever around the desktop and click inaccessible items > with your mouse! > > I hope you find this helpful, and I'd love to hear how it goes for you > guys. If this is something that everyone except me already knew about, > sorry. I'm just so excited that I can use a mouse again after 2 years > (since I lost my sight), and I wanted to share with you guys. > > Good luck and have funm, > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Oct 6 11:39:15 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 07:39:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers In-Reply-To: <002501cb64fe$896fafe0$6601a8c0@server> References: <002501cb64fe$896fafe0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <61A3437B9867458792349691E6204344@AnitaAdkinsPC> I received a book from the publisher, and its accompanying booklet, the CD that went with one, and other information was not provided, and the final four chapters are not accessible through the PDF as the first chapters happen to be. So, Dennis I agree with you. Braille diagrams would be nice, but I would be happy even to have what I purchased accessible in print form. And, I also agree that blind people should have to pay for the product; I just agree with Dennis that we should actually be able to access the product in its entirety. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clark" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers > Hello Dave, > Based on the sale of the print book to the blind reader, should the > publisher then be required to supply a complete book in the electronic > copy, with page numbers, tables, diagrams using Braille raised line > drawings, etc? If not , then why not? Is it acceptable for us to be > required to purchase a book from the publisher at full retail price which > is only a portion of that sold to sighted readers? To make certain there > is no confusion here, I have no problem paying the publisher full retail > price for the book and in exchange, we should receive complete access to > all the intellectual property contained in the book. This is not what is > being supplied currently. Just one lawyers opinion. > Best, > Dennis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] book requests from publishers > > >>I don't know about "requiring" but they derive no benefit from a >>transaction for a used book, so from their point of view they received >>nothing. So, if they require a purchase to release electronic files, then >>yes they can require you to purchase a new book. That is their business >>and interest after all -- selling new books in one form or another. >> >> Dave >> >> At 06:56 PM 10/5/2010, you wrote: >>>Hi Dave, >>> >>>I completely agree with your point about paying for the services provided >>>by >>>publishers. My question concerned whether they could require students to >>>buy >>>NEW textbooks in order to get electronic files, as opposed to a USED copy >>>of >>>a textbook. >>> >>>Kate >>> >>>On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:05 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>> > I don't know what the "legal" stance would be, it may depend on your >>> > state >>> > law -- but it doesn't seem unreasonable. You wouldn't go to a >>> > restaurant >>> > and expect to eat for free. The publisher should get something for >>> > providing you with the files. >>> > >>> > Dave >>> > >>> > >>> > At 06:36 PM 10/4/2010, you wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi List-ers, >>> >> >>> >> I know this question has probably come up in previous discussions, so >>> >> forgive me for resurrecting it. >>> >> >>> >> Can anyone tell me definitely if publishing companies are allowed to >>> >> require >>> >> people to buy new versions of books before providing accessible >>> >> e-files? >>> >> >>> >> I am a law student who needs books from Aspen and West publishing. >>> >> >>> >> Thanks, and my apologies again for what I am sure is bringing up a >>> >> belabored >>> >> issue. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Kathryn CARROLL >>> >> St. John's University College of Law 2013 >>> >> 631-521-3018 >>> >> >>> > >>> > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>> > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Kathryn CARROLL >>>St. John's University College of Law 2013 >>>631-521-3018 >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>signature database 5506 (20101005) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >> >> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 14:17:32 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:17:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Washington Seminar Auction Organizing Call. Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sean Whalen Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:00:27 -0500 Subject: NABS Auction Item Solicitation Email To: Darian Smith Dear NABS members, The National Association of Blind Students will, on January 30, 2011, at Washington Seminar, be holding a fundraising auction. Members of the NABS board are working to solicit auction items from an array of businesses, but we need your help to make this auction a success! Basically, what we are looking for, are people who would be willing to assist in the procurement of items to be auctioned off. Help from anybody who would be willing to reach out to local businesses in his or her hometown or state, would be greatly appreciated. NABS has a letter template to use in item solicitation efforts. If you would like to obtain a copy of this letter, or if you have questions or would like to help out, please contact Sean Whalen at either smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. What's that? You want to find out more about the auction, what kind of items we are looking for, or how you can help? Great news! We will be having a conference call this Sunday, October 10, at 5:30PM eastern time. Members of the NABS fundraising team will be there to answer all your questions and provide additional information. To participate in this call, please use the following dial-in information: Phone Number: 712 775-7100 Pass Code: 257963 We look forward to speaking to many of you on Sunday's call. And, remember, if you are unable to make the call, just contact Sean Whalen at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. We are dedicated to making this a successful auction, but in order to realize that ambition, we need the assistance of members from across the country. Let's pull together and show everybody what students can do! Sincerely, Sean Whalen -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 15:45:47 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:45:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] More Games Stuff In-Reply-To: <20101005102730.197474e6ldag4s8y@webmail.pdx.edu> References: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96> <20101005102730.197474e6ldag4s8y@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: I think I already wrote about this one but it's not on the list. The game is called TopSpeed 2 and you can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. It's a racing game, and it allows playing online with other users. It's actually pretty good. On Oct 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Chrys Buckley wrote: > > Hey fellow students, > > First of all, thanks to everyone who put in some input on accessible games. All of the information has been really helpful to a project that is all about making virtual science labs more accessible. This project will be presented at Youth Slam next summer, so look out for that! > > Here is the list of games I got from you guys. Please feel free to add comments about any of them, or add to the list. Any comments about what makes a game easy or difficult to navigate is going to be really helpful! > > Super Egg Hunt > Grizzly Gulch Western Extravaganza > Monkey Business* > Shades of Doom* (accessible version of the game Doom) > Termite Torpedo* > ESP pinball > Palace Punch-Up > Dynoman > GMA Tank Commander > Pacman (from GMA Games) > Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry > > * These games are said by some players to be confusing and hard to navigate. > > And just an FYI, card, dice or word games aren't really as helpful (fun as they may be!) as far as the project goes! > > So again, feel free to add games to the list, or comment on the games that are on the list. > > Thanks! > Chrys > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 15:49:03 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:49:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Using a Mouse as a Blind Individual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <556C36CE-D9DB-48B8-937A-019BE6EF83B4@gmail.com> This type of things are also doable on Mac OS X. I have used the mouse in several occasions to click inaccessible buttons etc. Very good point. IC On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:32 AM, Jewel S. wrote: > Dear list, > Have you ever considred using a mouse as a blind individual? I > haven't...I mean, what's the point of using a mouse if you can't see > the pointer, right? Wrong! > > Today, I found a new reason to use NVDA...not instead of JAWS, but at > the same time as JAWS. No, I'm not using two voices together (have you > ever done that accidentally? It's hard to understand anything because > of the dual voices). I set NVDA to silent (Insert + N, Preferences, > Synthesizer, then chose Silent from the first menu). Keep your JAWS > running (or if you use NVDA or another as your primary, keep that > voice going...you'll need it still!). Now, go into Mouse Setting > (Insert + N, Preferences, Mouse Settings). Here, you can tell it to > use audio coordinates, speak when you're over text (character, word, > line, paragraph), speak when you're over an icon (like on the > desktop), and it will also speak that you are over a link, button, or > other element. > > Now, this next part is for people with some residual vision. No, you > don't have to have much. My vision is 3/350 in one eye and light > perception only in the other, so if your vision is better than mine, > you'll likely benefit from this. > > In Control Panel, go to your mouse settings (this is different > depending on which system you have. I type mouse in the search box, > but I have Windows 7). You'll probably want to have high contrast, so > if you have a black on white theme, pick the extra large black mouse. > If you have white on black like I do, which is higher contrast, choose > the extra large white mouse pointer (this is in pointer option). Check > the box for it to locate the mouse when you press control, and give > the mouse a trail for extra size (for me, this makes the mouse look > like it's moving, which is a need of mine, since I have trouble seeing > things that are not moving). You can give the mouse just a little > trail or a very long tail, depending on your preferences. You'll also > want to change the speed to 10 percent (the slowest speed) until you > get good at moving the mouse, as the faster the mouse, the harder it > is to be accurate. > > Now, with your black background and white mouse, or white background > and black mouse, look closely at the desktop. Press the control key to > locate the mouse, or move it around to listen to what NVDA says. It > will tell you when you are getting close to icons. The higher and > louder the beep, the closer to an icon or window. > > Using these tools, I was able to click and drag a window, choose a > colour from a color wheel, and click an inaccessible drop-down menu. > It wasn't easy, and it probably took me about 5 times as long as a > sighted person would take (maybe longer), but I did it, and thus many > previously inaccessible sites and features of programs are not > accessible to me, and they can be to you, too! Even if you don't have > any sight at all, NVDA's mouse features will allow you to, with a bit > of practice, manuever around the desktop and click inaccessible items > with your mouse! > > I hope you find this helpful, and I'd love to hear how it goes for you > guys. If this is something that everyone except me already knew about, > sorry. I'm just so excited that I can use a mouse again after 2 years > (since I lost my sight), and I wanted to share with you guys. > > Good luck and have funm, > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 21:01:32 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 17:01:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation Message-ID: Hi I have an idea for math and science textbooks which may make math and science materials more accessible. I read that math and science books are written in a language called LeTex. LeTex is a hand-written code, when run through a typesetter program it will display math and science notation correctly on a computer screen nemeth braille or ink printer. Now how about this. Could someone smarter than me, out there, create a program which will take a document written in LeTex, use a sapi5 voice and turn that LeTex document into understandable daisy audio and daisy text? Does this already exist? if so where could I get such a thing that turns LeTex into daisy audio and daisy text? Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 02:09:01 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 20:09:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] More Games Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96> <20101005102730.197474e6ldag4s8y@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: I'd look up http://www.audiogames.net which is a web site devoted entirely to accessible computer games. You'll find all sorts of stuff there. On 10/6/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I think I already wrote about this one but it's not on the list. The game is > called TopSpeed 2 and you can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. It's a > racing game, and it allows playing online with other users. It's actually > pretty good. > On Oct 5, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Chrys Buckley wrote: > >> >> Hey fellow students, >> >> First of all, thanks to everyone who put in some input on accessible >> games. All of the information has been really helpful to a project that is >> all about making virtual science labs more accessible. This project will >> be presented at Youth Slam next summer, so look out for that! >> >> Here is the list of games I got from you guys. Please feel free to add >> comments about any of them, or add to the list. Any comments about what >> makes a game easy or difficult to navigate is going to be really helpful! >> >> Super Egg Hunt >> Grizzly Gulch Western Extravaganza >> Monkey Business* >> Shades of Doom* (accessible version of the game Doom) >> Termite Torpedo* >> ESP pinball >> Palace Punch-Up >> Dynoman >> GMA Tank Commander >> Pacman (from GMA Games) >> Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry >> >> * These games are said by some players to be confusing and hard to >> navigate. >> >> And just an FYI, card, dice or word games aren't really as helpful (fun as >> they may be!) as far as the project goes! >> >> So again, feel free to add games to the list, or comment on the games that >> are on the list. >> >> Thanks! >> Chrys >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From trising at sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 7 02:27:31 2010 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 22:27:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] More Games Stuff References: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96><20101005102730.197474e6ldag4s8y@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: Chillingham is also a good accessible game. You attempt to solve a mystery, while fighting different creatures. Terri Wilcox -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 256 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com Thu Oct 7 03:40:26 2010 From: nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com (nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 23:40:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosser raffle Message-ID: The new Ann Arbor Michigan NFB chapter will be raffling off a used enabling Technology Juliette double sided embosser. You do not have to be present at the NFB of Michigan state convention to win! The cost per ticket will be $5.00! Part of the ticket price includes the cost of shipping the embosser to you. This $4000 item is very heavy. If you will not be attending state convention and want to purchase tickets send a message to Nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com If you will not be attending the convention I will need to have your check by October 28 2010. From cbuckley at pdx.edu Thu Oct 7 16:51:37 2010 From: cbuckley at pdx.edu (Chrys Buckley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:51:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] More Games Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <3CD8803E49BB436B97EBB930C6AFDE8D@windows4c0ed96><20101005102730.197474e6ldag4s8y@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <20101007095137.16685xch7c8tz0k9@webmail.pdx.edu> Thanks everyone. And I did see that I had Topspeed 2 (just for some reason I had written it in a different place). I will look into Chillingham and also the audiogames.net website. Keep 'em coming! Chrys Quoting trising : > Chillingham is also a good accessible game. You attempt to solve a > mystery, while fighting different creatures. > Terri Wilcox > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 256 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cbuckley%40pdx.edu > > http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 18:37:42 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:37:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Josh, I don't know about translating LaTex into DAISY text, but Duxbury can translate LaTex files into braille files, which can then be embossed into hard copy braille or read on a braille display. This is the primary way my undergraduate disability office used to transcribe my math course materials, and it worked very well for the most part. Katie On 10/6/10, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I have an idea for math and science textbooks which may make math and > science materials more accessible. > I read that math and science books are written in a language called LeTex. > LeTex is a hand-written code, when run through a typesetter program it will > display math and science notation correctly on a computer screen nemeth > braille or ink printer. Now how about this. Could someone smarter than me, > out there, create a program which will take a document written in LeTex, use > a sapi5 voice and turn that LeTex document into understandable daisy audio > and daisy text? Does this already exist? if so where could I get such a > thing that turns LeTex into daisy audio and daisy text? > > > Josh Kennedy > jkenn337 at gmail.com > > Josh Kennedy > jkenn337 at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 23:44:31 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 19:44:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [nagdu] Requesting information: In-Reply-To: References: <486939.95784.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A more direct way to get at the NFB listservs is www.nfbnet.org, versus going through www.nfb.org On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:46 PM, David Andrews wrote: > What is an "accessible / blind friendly town," prey tell? > > One with good public transportation -- or something else?  That would seem > to vary from person to person. > > Also, it might be a good idea to join the maryland-related lists, greater > baltimore, nfbmd, nfb-sligo, nationalharbor.  Go to nfb.org and choose first > link, and all lists show up there. > > Dave > > At 03:44 PM 9/28/2010, William ODonnell wrote: >> >> List moderator, I would like to cross-post the following: Thank you I have >> a friend who is interested in attending the University of Maryland.  She is >> also looking at permanently relocating to Maryland.  Can anyone on the list >> email her with suggestions of accessible/blind friendly towns. Yvetta’s >> email is: yvtsc at aol.com Please write “Maryland† in the subject. In the >> event that you need an immediate response from me, please email me at my >> gmail address. The address is: william.odonnell1 at gmail.com Thank you. > >                        David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 04:27:42 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:27:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help Message-ID: Hello All. I recently bought a mac book pro! Yay. I love the computer, but I'm still not proficient on it to use it for everything as I so desperately want to. My main problem right now is using microsoft word! How in do I type a document? When I open it it shows me a series of toolbar dialogues and I have no idea how to go ahead and type. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. the worl -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From trising at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 8 05:28:27 2010 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 01:28:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help References: Message-ID: <89BBDDCE5FA54777BE704FFB62645339@user6389c7a3c9> grow extra fingers. Lots of the macs voice over commands require you to press 3 or more keys at the same time. Nick -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 265 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Oct 8 06:03:52 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 23:03:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help References: <89BBDDCE5FA54777BE704FFB62645339@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: <79D46DA53E17457BBA38A998D4EF8D04@stanford.edu> Lol, I'm not sure that that's possible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "trising" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] mac help > grow extra fingers. > Lots of the macs voice over commands require you to press 3 or more keys > at the same time. > > Nick > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 265 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 06:20:25 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:20:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help In-Reply-To: <79D46DA53E17457BBA38A998D4EF8D04@stanford.edu> References: <89BBDDCE5FA54777BE704FFB62645339@user6389c7a3c9> <79D46DA53E17457BBA38A998D4EF8D04@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <0A5ABDED-C55C-4071-9215-AC38A7AA59A4@gmail.com> Hello, Microsoft hasn't made the Office suite accessible on the mac, and doesn't seem to want to make it accessible anytime soon. I have tried a couple of betas of Office 2011 for mac and it is still unusable for VoiceOver users. Several people have expressed concerns to Microsoft's accessibility department but for now, they don't seem to care. Depending on how much formatting you need to do, you can use Textedit, the built-in text processing application in Mac OS X. If you need to do more complex stuff, you can use a great text processor called Nisus writer (which you will have to buy...it's not expensive though) or you can also try Apple's own iWork productivity suite which is accessible. Pages, the text processing application that comes with iWork, is fully accessible and can do everything Word can do with no problems. Of course, Textedit, Nisus and Pages are compatible with Microsoft Office format. Please let me know if you need more help. IC On Oct 8, 2010, at 2:03 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Lol, I'm not sure that that's possible. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "trising" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] mac help > > >> grow extra fingers. >> Lots of the macs voice over commands require you to press 3 or more keys at the same time. >> >> Nick >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 265 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 06:25:43 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:25:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't find this very practical because when calculations become a little complex, listening to them as if it was a regular textbook seems more of a pain that anything else. I usually just read the LateX code itself. The language is easy to learn, but even without knowing it, anyone that speaks english can understand it... On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:01 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I have an idea for math and science textbooks which may make math and science materials more accessible. > I read that math and science books are written in a language called LeTex. LeTex is a hand-written code, when run through a typesetter program it will display math and science notation correctly on a computer screen nemeth braille or ink printer. Now how about this. Could someone smarter than me, out there, create a program which will take a document written in LeTex, use a sapi5 voice and turn that LeTex document into understandable daisy audio and daisy text? Does this already exist? if so where could I get such a thing that turns LeTex into daisy audio and daisy text? > > > Josh Kennedy > jkenn337 at gmail.com > > Josh Kennedy > jkenn337 at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dlawless86 at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 13:21:33 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:21:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cb66eb$ba05ef90$2e11ceb0$@com> Mary, IWORK is a great program and it's reasonably priced. I use it on my Mac and haven't had any issues yet. The nice thing about IWork is that you can buy each application individually or you can buy them in an office suite. I hope this helps. Domonique -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] mac help Hello All. I recently bought a mac book pro! Yay. I love the computer, but I'm still not proficient on it to use it for everything as I so desperately want to. My main problem right now is using microsoft word! How in do I type a document? When I open it it shows me a series of toolbar dialogues and I have no idea how to go ahead and type. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. the worl -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.c om From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 15:05:56 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:05:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help In-Reply-To: <000001cb66eb$ba05ef90$2e11ceb0$@com> References: <000001cb66eb$ba05ef90$2e11ceb0$@com> Message-ID: I don't have a macbook, but am very interested in getting one in the future. My questions is, how would you view microsoft office attachments? Because i feel like even if you have a program that does work on a mac, you still wouldn't be able to view a lot of documents that people send or that professors post on blackboard and such. Cindy On 10/8/10, Domonique Lawless wrote: > Mary, > IWORK is a great program and it's reasonably priced. I use it on my Mac and > haven't had any issues yet. The nice thing about IWork is that you can buy > each application individually or you can buy them in an office suite. I hope > this helps. > > Domonique > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:28 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] mac help > > Hello All. > I recently bought a mac book pro! Yay. I love the computer, but I'm > still not proficient on it to use it for everything as I so > desperately want to. My main problem right now is using microsoft > word! How in do I type a document? When I open it it shows me a > series of toolbar dialogues and I have no idea how to go ahead and > type. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks. > the worl > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the > most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of > teachers." > Charles W. Eliot > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 15:42:44 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:42:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb66eb$ba05ef90$2e11ceb0$@com> Message-ID: Hello All, So what I'm getting is that i should get IWork instead of word? I do a lot of stuff in APA format which is very format specific, and so i need to have all those functions available to me, as far as inserting black pages, headers, etc. And Iwork read word documents correct? Thanks so much you guys! Mary On 10/8/10, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I don't have a macbook, but am very interested in getting one in the > future. My questions is, how would you view microsoft office > attachments? Because i feel like even if you have a program that does > work on a mac, you still wouldn't be able to view a lot of documents > that people send or that professors post on blackboard and such. > > Cindy > > On 10/8/10, Domonique Lawless wrote: >> Mary, >> IWORK is a great program and it's reasonably priced. I use it on my Mac >> and >> haven't had any issues yet. The nice thing about IWork is that you can buy >> each application individually or you can buy them in an office suite. I >> hope >> this helps. >> >> Domonique >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:28 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] mac help >> >> Hello All. >> I recently bought a mac book pro! Yay. I love the computer, but I'm >> still not proficient on it to use it for everything as I so >> desperately want to. My main problem right now is using microsoft >> word! How in do I type a document? When I open it it shows me a >> series of toolbar dialogues and I have no idea how to go ahead and >> type. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! >> Thanks. >> the worl >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the >> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of >> teachers." >> Charles W. Eliot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 18:27:36 2010 From: dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 14:27:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help Message-ID: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> Hi Nicole, I just saw you on this list, and wanted to say hi! How are you? How's school? Halen't seen you on the bn list in a while so I thought maybe your commujccation got taken away (smile). Chegs Daniebble From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 20:36:17 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:36:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Washington Seminar Auction Organizing Call. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear NABS members, The National Association of Blind Students will, on January 30, 2011, at Washington Seminar, be holding a fundraising auction. Members of the NABS board are working to solicit auction items from an array of businesses, but we need your help to make this auction a success! Basically, what we are looking for, are people who would be willing to assist in the procurement of items to be auctioned off. Help from anybody who would be willing to reach out to local businesses in his or her hometown or state, would be greatly appreciated. NABS has a letter template to use in item solicitation efforts. If you would like to obtain a copy of this letter, or if you have questions or would like to help out, please contact Sean Whalen at either smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. What's that? You want to find out more about the auction, what kind of items we are looking for, or how you can help? Great news! We will be having a conference call this Sunday, October 10, at 5:30PM eastern time. Members of the NABS fundraising team will be there to answer all your questions and provide additional information. To participate in this call, please use the following dial-in information: Phone Number: 712 775-7100 Pass Code: 257963 We look forward to speaking to many of you on Sunday's call. And, remember, if you are unable to make the call, just contact Sean Whalen at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. We are dedicated to making this a successful auction, but in order to realize that ambition, we need the assistance of members from across the country. Let's pull together and show everybody what students can do! Sincerely, Sean Whalen On 10/6/10, Darian Smith wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sean Whalen > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:00:27 -0500 > Subject: NABS Auction Item Solicitation Email > To: Darian Smith > > Dear NABS members, > > The National Association of Blind Students will, on January 30, 2011, at > Washington Seminar, be holding a fundraising auction. Members of the NABS > board are working to solicit auction items from an array of businesses, but > we need your help to make this auction a success! Basically, what we are > looking for, are people who would be willing to assist in the procurement > of > items to be auctioned off. Help from anybody who would be willing to reach > out to local businesses in his or her hometown or state, would be greatly > appreciated. NABS has a letter template to use in item solicitation > efforts. > If you would like to obtain a copy of this letter, or if you have questions > or would like to help out, please contact Sean Whalen at either > smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. > > What's that? You want to find out more about the auction, what kind of > items > we are looking for, or how you can help? Great news! We will be having a > conference call this Sunday, October 10, at 5:30PM eastern time. Members of > the NABS fundraising team will be there to answer all your questions and > provide additional information. To participate in this call, please use the > following dial-in information: > > Phone Number: 712 775-7100 > Pass Code: 257963 > > We look forward to speaking to many of you on Sunday's call. And, remember, > if you are unable to make the call, just contact Sean Whalen at > smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. > > We are dedicated to making this a successful auction, but in order to > realize that ambition, we need the assistance of members from across the > country. Let's pull together and show everybody what students can do! > > Sincerely, > > Sean Whalen > > > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 22:43:34 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 18:43:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Grocery shopping, and transportation questions Message-ID: Hi All: I have some more questions about grocery shopping and transportation. Instead of making two separate posts, I figured I'd just put all my questions in one post...they are somewhat related to each other. I'll start with the grocery shopping questions. In the apartment building I live in, there is no elevator. Unfortunately I live on the third floor, which is up four flights of steps. What is the best way to carry lots of groceries up the steps? Would it be okay, when having lots of groceries to set some of the bags on the floor in the hallway by the door, go up with as much as I can carry, then come back for the rest? Is there any better way to carry groceries than in the plastic bags the grocery bagger puts them in? I've been told about burlap sacks that you can carry on your shoulder...does this reduce the load much? I want to make this as easy as possible. How often do you usually go grocery shopping? When you go, do you just get the things you absolutely need, and keep the load as little as possible or do you usually take advantage of the fact you are at the store and get lots of stuff? My next questions are about transportation. I live in a college town. I guess it's your typical college town. It's big enough to be considered a small city or large town...we have five Krogers, four or more Walmarts...tons of restaurants and bars, two malls...two movie theaters. It isn't a major city though. We do have a bus system but I've never been encouraged to use it. I've just been expected to take cabs everywhere. One of the problems though is that the town is not really a walking town...there are parts of it you can walk in but not very many. When things/places are built, often pedestrian accessibility is left out. There doesn't seem to be any blind people; there is no NFB chapter. So, naturally the majority of the people, including most of the students drive. From what I've read on their website, the bus covers many areas, but usually until only 6 o'clock, unless it's downtown where the students are. I don't live downtown though. Because of this, I find myself having to take cabs almost everywhere. Cabs here are about $5-6 each way. Is this normal for a college town? Is this expensive for a cab? Are my only options to either take the bus when it is available or take cabs? Should I just not worry about the expense and take cabs when and wherever? Is learning to use the bus hard or is it as simple as calling and asking the right questions? >From what I can tell, from where I live, in order to take the bus again since I'm not in the downtown student area I will have to take two buses to get anywhere and it usually takes about two hours. Is this normal for a large town/small city? The closest major city to me is Pittsburgh. There is a bus that goes there twice. In order to take a grayhound bus, or AM track train you have to somehow get to Pittsburgh. Is the bus going twice daily reasonable? For those of you who live in college towns similar to this how do you find a balance between taking cabs, using family and friends, and taking the bus? What is the cost monthly of owning a vehicle compared to taking cabs all the time? I'm sorry to ask this...I've never been told. I guess I am just asking these questions because I want to make sure I'm not getting screwed so to speak. I don't mind taking cabs, but sometimes I feel like I'm just automatically expected to spend the money just because...if you know what I mean by that! I've been told owning a vehicle is several hundreds of dollars a month when the cost of maintaenance, car payments, insurance, and gas is added up but again these have just been from sighted people who don't take cabs. It seems like most other blind people I know don't take cabs unless they absolutely have to and I hate having to do it all the time. In one sense I feel like I'm being told to go ahead, don't worry about it, owning a vehicle is expensive too...but then on the other hand so many blind people don't seem to like doing it. I know each town is different...but if I want to go somewhere and it's after 6 and the bus doesn't go are cabs or family/friends my only options? I've never gone completely broke or run out of money by taking cabs but again...I feel as if I'm getting mixed messages and I want to make sure I'm doing the right/best thing. From where I live you can't walk anywhere as there are several things across the street but it's not actually a street but a major six-lane highway...so walking is out. I'm not married and live alone. Do those of you who live in towns like this find yourselves having to also take cabs more frequently than other blind people? I know my questions seem a little crazy but I thought I'd ask them all in one post. Thanks so much! Kerri From AZNOR99 at aol.com Fri Oct 8 23:48:04 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 19:48:04 EDT Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [il-talk] info for NFBI streaming Message-ID: <29969e.48b0f642.39e107b4@aol.com> ____________________________________ From: leanne at uddle.com Reply-to: il-talk at nfbnet.org To: il-talk at nfbnet.org Sent: 10/8/2010 7:16:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: [il-talk] info for NFBI streaming Streaming correction for this weekend's NFB of Illiinois convention: http://67.212.189.10:8842/nfbi.m3u LeAnne Mayne KB9ZEF leanne at uddle.com Listen to: LIFE THE UNIVERSE & EVERYTHING w/Blair Alper Sundays 7pm CST HTTP://cband.info/rfd2.m3u When he is Motivated to do a SHOW _______________________________________________ il-talk mailing list il-talk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/il-talk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for il-talk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/il-talk_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 00:22:27 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 20:22:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Grocery shopping, and transportation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, I feel like most of these concerns have nothing to do with the fact that you are blind. I usually carry as many bags as I can upstairs, leave them by my door and go get the rest. But then if you don't live in a safe area or something, it might not be a good idea. And then about busses... Well, if you feel as though it takes too much time for you to get wherever you want to go it you take a bus, then take a cab. But it is perfectly possible for a blind person to take a bus, so if you use taxis do it because it is more efficient for you, but not because you can't travel by bus. IC On Oct 8, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi All: > > I have some more questions about grocery shopping and transportation. > Instead of making two separate posts, I figured I'd just put all my > questions in one post...they are somewhat related to each other. > > I'll start with the grocery shopping questions. > > In the apartment building I live in, there is no elevator. > Unfortunately I live on the third floor, which is up four flights of > steps. What is the best way to carry lots of groceries up the steps? > Would it be okay, when having lots of groceries to set some of the > bags on the floor in the hallway by the door, go up with as much as I > can carry, then come back for the rest? Is there any better way to > carry groceries than in the plastic bags the grocery bagger puts them > in? I've been told about burlap sacks that you can carry on your > shoulder...does this reduce the load much? I want to make this as easy > as possible. > > How often do you usually go grocery shopping? When you go, do you just > get the things you absolutely need, and keep the load as little as > possible or do you usually take advantage of the fact you are at the > store and get lots of stuff? > > My next questions are about transportation. I live in a college town. > I guess it's your typical college town. It's big enough to be > considered a small city or large town...we have five Krogers, four or > more Walmarts...tons of restaurants and bars, two malls...two movie > theaters. It isn't a major city though. > > We do have a bus system but I've never been encouraged to use it. I've > just been expected to take cabs everywhere. > > One of the problems though is that the town is not really a walking > town...there are parts of it you can walk in but not very many. When > things/places are built, often pedestrian accessibility is left out. > > There doesn't seem to be any blind people; there is no NFB chapter. > So, naturally the majority of the people, including most of the > students drive. From what I've read on their website, the bus covers > many areas, but usually until only 6 o'clock, unless it's downtown > where the students are. I don't live downtown though. Because of this, > I find myself having to take cabs almost everywhere. Cabs here are > about $5-6 each way. Is this normal for a college town? Is this > expensive for a cab? > > Are my only options to either take the bus when it is available or take cabs? > > Should I just not worry about the expense and take cabs when and wherever? > > Is learning to use the bus hard or is it as simple as calling and > asking the right questions? > >> From what I can tell, from where I live, in order to take the bus > again since I'm not in the downtown student area I will have to take > two buses to get anywhere and it usually takes about two hours. Is > this normal for a large town/small city? > > The closest major city to me is Pittsburgh. There is a bus that goes > there twice. In order to take a grayhound bus, or AM track train you > have to somehow get to Pittsburgh. Is the bus going twice daily > reasonable? > > For those of you who live in college towns similar to this how do you > find a balance between taking cabs, using family and friends, and > taking the bus? > > What is the cost monthly of owning a vehicle compared to taking cabs > all the time? I'm sorry to ask this...I've never been told. > > I guess I am just asking these questions because I want to make sure > I'm not getting screwed so to speak. I don't mind taking cabs, but > sometimes I feel like I'm just automatically expected to spend the > money just because...if you know what I mean by that! I've been told > owning a vehicle is several hundreds of dollars a month when the cost > of maintaenance, car payments, insurance, and gas is added up but > again these have just been from sighted people who don't take cabs. It > seems like most other blind people I know don't take cabs unless they > absolutely have to and I hate having to do it all the time. In one > sense I feel like I'm being told to go ahead, don't worry about it, > owning a vehicle is expensive too...but then on the other hand so many > blind people don't seem to like doing it. I know each town is > different...but if I want to go somewhere and it's after 6 and the bus > doesn't go are cabs or family/friends my only options? I've never gone > completely broke or run out of money by taking cabs but again...I feel > as if I'm getting mixed messages and I want to make sure I'm doing the > right/best thing. From where I live you can't walk anywhere as there > are several things across the street but it's not actually a street > but a major six-lane highway...so walking is out. I'm not married and > live alone. Do those of you who live in towns like this find > yourselves having to also take cabs more frequently than other blind > people? I know my questions seem a little crazy but I thought I'd ask > them all in one post. > > Thanks so much! > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 00:25:12 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 20:25:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb66eb$ba05ef90$2e11ceb0$@com> Message-ID: iWork works really well, but be aware that there is a learning curve and that you will have to get used to doing things in a way that has very little to do with Word. But once you get it, it is very efficient, straightforward and quick to use. You can download a demo from Apple's website and try the full version for 30 days. The same thing is possible with Nisus writer, so I would suggest that you try both and decide what you like. IC On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello All, > So what I'm getting is that i should get IWork instead of word? I do a > lot of stuff in APA format which is very format specific, and so i > need to have all those functions available to me, as far as inserting > black pages, headers, etc. And Iwork read word documents correct? > Thanks so much you guys! > Mary > > > On 10/8/10, Cindy Bennett wrote: >> I don't have a macbook, but am very interested in getting one in the >> future. My questions is, how would you view microsoft office >> attachments? Because i feel like even if you have a program that does >> work on a mac, you still wouldn't be able to view a lot of documents >> that people send or that professors post on blackboard and such. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 10/8/10, Domonique Lawless wrote: >>> Mary, >>> IWORK is a great program and it's reasonably priced. I use it on my Mac >>> and >>> haven't had any issues yet. The nice thing about IWork is that you can buy >>> each application individually or you can buy them in an office suite. I >>> hope >>> this helps. >>> >>> Domonique >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Mary Fernandez >>> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:28 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] mac help >>> >>> Hello All. >>> I recently bought a mac book pro! Yay. I love the computer, but I'm >>> still not proficient on it to use it for everything as I so >>> desperately want to. My main problem right now is using microsoft >>> word! How in do I type a document? When I open it it shows me a >>> series of toolbar dialogues and I have no idea how to go ahead and >>> type. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! >>> Thanks. >>> the worl >>> >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> Emory University 2012 >>> P.O. Box 123056 >>> Atlanta Ga. >>> 30322 >>> Phone: 732-857-7004 >>> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the >>> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of >>> teachers." >>> Charles W. Eliot >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the > most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of > teachers." > Charles W. Eliot > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 00:26:34 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 20:26:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information In-Reply-To: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> References: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <047D9F667CC54F448BDC7EDDB43B754A@Cptr233> Hi students, How did you all learn to do bibliographies and work cite. It's a really hard concept for me to grasp. I guess because there are so many things to include. Plus my professor is, asking that I have certain parts of the text in Italics. I want to learn how to do this. But every time I have turned in a paper, my bibs and work cites are different, none of which have been the right way. Any tricks are welcome, please! Marsha __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5516 (20101008) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 00:26:57 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 20:26:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mac help In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb66eb$ba05ef90$2e11ceb0$@com> Message-ID: Textedit opens word documents, and you can use either Open Office or iWork to see files in word, excel or PPT format. On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I don't have a macbook, but am very interested in getting one in the > future. My questions is, how would you view microsoft office > attachments? Because i feel like even if you have a program that does > work on a mac, you still wouldn't be able to view a lot of documents > that people send or that professors post on blackboard and such. > > Cindy > > On 10/8/10, Domonique Lawless wrote: >> Mary, >> IWORK is a great program and it's reasonably priced. I use it on my Mac and >> haven't had any issues yet. The nice thing about IWork is that you can buy >> each application individually or you can buy them in an office suite. I hope >> this helps. >> >> Domonique >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:28 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] mac help >> >> Hello All. >> I recently bought a mac book pro! Yay. I love the computer, but I'm >> still not proficient on it to use it for everything as I so >> desperately want to. My main problem right now is using microsoft >> word! How in do I type a document? When I open it it shows me a >> series of toolbar dialogues and I have no idea how to go ahead and >> type. Any advise would be greatly appreciated! >> Thanks. >> the worl >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the >> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of >> teachers." >> Charles W. Eliot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 00:29:49 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 18:29:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information Message-ID: <4cafb79c.2032640a.0feb.ffff9a48@mx.google.com> hey marsha! My language arts teacher sent around something to do works cited. I bet if you google it though (I do not have my copy any more) you'll find it. Google "MLA Works Cited." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Drenth" References: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> <047D9F667CC54F448BDC7EDDB43B754A@Cptr233> Message-ID: Hello, It all depends on how your teacher wants things sited. The two main ways to do it is APA and MLA style. You can do a google search for each of those. Hope this helps, Greg Wocher. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information > Hi students, > > How did you all learn to do bibliographies and work cite. It's a really > hard > concept for me to grasp. I guess because there are so many things to > include. Plus my professor is, asking that I have certain parts of the > text > in Italics. I want to learn how to do this. But every time I have turned > in > a paper, my bibs and work cites are different, none of which have been the > right way. Any tricks are welcome, please! > > Marsha > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5516 (20101008) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 01:59:06 2010 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 21:59:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Grocery shopping, and transportation questions References: Message-ID: Para-transit might be another option for you. Here we have a service that'll take us door to door wherever we need to go as long as we call a day in advance, and it's free. Cabs in Maine are prohibitive and there are no bus systems here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Grocery shopping, and transportation questions > Hello, > I feel like most of these concerns have nothing to do with the fact that > you are blind. I usually carry as many bags as I can upstairs, leave them > by my door and go get the rest. But then if you don't live in a safe area > or something, it might not be a good idea. And then about busses... Well, > if you feel as though it takes too much time for you to get wherever you > want to go it you take a bus, then take a cab. But it is perfectly > possible for a blind person to take a bus, so if you use taxis do it > because it is more efficient for you, but not because you can't travel by > bus. > > IC > On Oct 8, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> Hi All: >> >> I have some more questions about grocery shopping and transportation. >> Instead of making two separate posts, I figured I'd just put all my >> questions in one post...they are somewhat related to each other. >> >> I'll start with the grocery shopping questions. >> >> In the apartment building I live in, there is no elevator. >> Unfortunately I live on the third floor, which is up four flights of >> steps. What is the best way to carry lots of groceries up the steps? >> Would it be okay, when having lots of groceries to set some of the >> bags on the floor in the hallway by the door, go up with as much as I >> can carry, then come back for the rest? Is there any better way to >> carry groceries than in the plastic bags the grocery bagger puts them >> in? I've been told about burlap sacks that you can carry on your >> shoulder...does this reduce the load much? I want to make this as easy >> as possible. >> >> How often do you usually go grocery shopping? When you go, do you just >> get the things you absolutely need, and keep the load as little as >> possible or do you usually take advantage of the fact you are at the >> store and get lots of stuff? >> >> My next questions are about transportation. I live in a college town. >> I guess it's your typical college town. It's big enough to be >> considered a small city or large town...we have five Krogers, four or >> more Walmarts...tons of restaurants and bars, two malls...two movie >> theaters. It isn't a major city though. >> >> We do have a bus system but I've never been encouraged to use it. I've >> just been expected to take cabs everywhere. >> >> One of the problems though is that the town is not really a walking >> town...there are parts of it you can walk in but not very many. When >> things/places are built, often pedestrian accessibility is left out. >> >> There doesn't seem to be any blind people; there is no NFB chapter. >> So, naturally the majority of the people, including most of the >> students drive. From what I've read on their website, the bus covers >> many areas, but usually until only 6 o'clock, unless it's downtown >> where the students are. I don't live downtown though. Because of this, >> I find myself having to take cabs almost everywhere. Cabs here are >> about $5-6 each way. Is this normal for a college town? Is this >> expensive for a cab? >> >> Are my only options to either take the bus when it is available or take >> cabs? >> >> Should I just not worry about the expense and take cabs when and >> wherever? >> >> Is learning to use the bus hard or is it as simple as calling and >> asking the right questions? >> >>> From what I can tell, from where I live, in order to take the bus >> again since I'm not in the downtown student area I will have to take >> two buses to get anywhere and it usually takes about two hours. Is >> this normal for a large town/small city? >> >> The closest major city to me is Pittsburgh. There is a bus that goes >> there twice. In order to take a grayhound bus, or AM track train you >> have to somehow get to Pittsburgh. Is the bus going twice daily >> reasonable? >> >> For those of you who live in college towns similar to this how do you >> find a balance between taking cabs, using family and friends, and >> taking the bus? >> >> What is the cost monthly of owning a vehicle compared to taking cabs >> all the time? I'm sorry to ask this...I've never been told. >> >> I guess I am just asking these questions because I want to make sure >> I'm not getting screwed so to speak. I don't mind taking cabs, but >> sometimes I feel like I'm just automatically expected to spend the >> money just because...if you know what I mean by that! I've been told >> owning a vehicle is several hundreds of dollars a month when the cost >> of maintaenance, car payments, insurance, and gas is added up but >> again these have just been from sighted people who don't take cabs. It >> seems like most other blind people I know don't take cabs unless they >> absolutely have to and I hate having to do it all the time. In one >> sense I feel like I'm being told to go ahead, don't worry about it, >> owning a vehicle is expensive too...but then on the other hand so many >> blind people don't seem to like doing it. I know each town is >> different...but if I want to go somewhere and it's after 6 and the bus >> doesn't go are cabs or family/friends my only options? I've never gone >> completely broke or run out of money by taking cabs but again...I feel >> as if I'm getting mixed messages and I want to make sure I'm doing the >> right/best thing. From where I live you can't walk anywhere as there >> are several things across the street but it's not actually a street >> but a major six-lane highway...so walking is out. I'm not married and >> live alone. Do those of you who live in towns like this find >> yourselves having to also take cabs more frequently than other blind >> people? I know my questions seem a little crazy but I thought I'd ask >> them all in one post. >> >> Thanks so much! >> >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5513 (20101007) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5513 (20101007) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 9 02:15:37 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 19:15:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and works cited information Message-ID: Dear Marsha and all, Citations are something I am still gaining confidence with; they can be daunting but I have just gone along methodically asking questions and seem to be more relaxed now. Bibliographies and works cited can be very detail oriented. It is really almost comical how different each of my professors are in their research documentation requirements. Some profs really do not care how you cite sources or where you got a fact, as long as you document your sources you can make up your own style. Others are very precise. So ask your professor to suggest a handbook or some guidelines so you can give him the preferred format. The main formats are MLA, Chicago and APA. MLA is usually for English and humanities, Chicago is for history I think, and APA is for social sciences and psychology. One book I used in a library science class is worth looking at, since you have all styles of citations and bibliography in a compact space. The book is only ten dollars, and in a hurry, you could have a reader find the right format. The book details are: : Hacker, Diana. Research and Documentation in the Electronic Age. 4th ed. New York: Bedford/St. Martin's, 2006. This book also has lots of ways to cite web pages and everything you can think of. It is also available on CD and download from RFB and D. However, the reader does not always read each tiny comma and so on, and this can be important in the world of term paper writing. I was once marked down for not indenting the second line of a works scited listing. But you still may find the RFB and D version of the book helpful. There also is a Mla style handbook, the current edition I think, at Bookshare. Finally, my hunch is at this point, if you have an English Center, just go and ask them directly to check your citations. Usually a campus will have some form of free tutorialor so called English centers, and as one staffer told me "we love this stuff." I think this is a process, obviously, and I do see the value of this. I hope this is helpful, Ginnie From aadkins7 at verizon.net Sat Oct 9 02:36:42 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:36:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] newest Blindness Blog is posted Message-ID: <93CAC055A8384917A2A86801441F1084@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello Everyone, This week's Blindness Blog focuses on Learned Helplessness. Enjoy, and feel free to comment. Thanks. www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com Anita From clb5590 at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 02:42:03 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 22:42:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information In-Reply-To: References: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> <047D9F667CC54F448BDC7EDDB43B754A@Cptr233> Message-ID: It definitely depends on the level of assignments you are doing, but once you get into your higher level major classes, citations are something that won't go away. Some other people were good at bringing up that there is more than one way to site things. Typically English classes prefer MLA while more scientific classes prefer APA. There are some others such as Chicago, although i have only had to do that for 1 class, but there are others out there. Although there are a lot of wonderful websites, nothing is better in my opinion than purchasing, and continuing to purchase the most updated citation book. There are some websites that contain edit boxes for all of the information needed to cite things such as books and websites, but i guess i am too paranoid that they will format them a little off, and it would be difficult for me to detect this. Also, websites rarely have forms for unusual citations such as interviews, or they won't have enough author boxes, etc. If you use APA style and you need help citing journal articles and websites and need the general rules for the layout of the paper, i'd definitel love to help you off list. I really like to be independent, but sometimes microsoft word does some crazy things even when you don't tell it to. So, especially if it is a super important paper, it is never a bad idea to show it to your professor or a friend or reader beforehand to make sure. To minimize this, i refrain from doing any formatting until the paper is complete. This way, if i start typing after a title or something, i don't have to wonder if microsoft word is continuing to type in italics or something. It is definitely ok to have a sighted person look at your paper just to make sure everything looks right. But i had an experience last year where my professor told me that a bunch of stuff ended up in superscript or something after i had changed 1 number to superscript, so it does happen, and hopefully your professor will understand that if you are trying, little mistakes like that won't be reflected in your grade. Citing is annoying, but once you get the hang of it, you can do it in your sleep. This is a great question for anyone, but are there any braille citation guides? I feel like an audio book on citation would be annoying. I could recognized bolded and and capitals and periods and parentheses so much faster if i could read it in braille, but i have yet to find such a manual, so now i just get a reader to leaf through my print APA guide, and i then write down how to cite whatever it is i am looking for and keep it for reference. I hope that helps. Cindy On 10/8/10, Greg wrote: > Hello, > It all depends on how your teacher wants things sited. The two main ways to > do it is APA and MLA style. You can do a google search for each of those. > Hope this helps, > Greg Wocher. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:26 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information > > >> Hi students, >> >> How did you all learn to do bibliographies and work cite. It's a really >> hard >> concept for me to grasp. I guess because there are so many things to >> include. Plus my professor is, asking that I have certain parts of the >> text >> in Italics. I want to learn how to do this. But every time I have turned >> in >> a paper, my bibs and work cites are different, none of which have been the >> right way. Any tricks are welcome, please! >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5516 (20101008) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Oct 9 10:45:37 2010 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 04:45:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB047D1.9010604@pcdesk.net> Howdy folks, I personally have started using LaTeX extensively. I do my exams using it and the profs love it because if you run it through a pdf converter it looks just like what they're used to seeing. I use it for all my notes and what not because it provides a standard method for representing math and science material, which my degree is heavy on. As for reading it, I just read the LaTeX code. I think having to have a special reader such as a daisy reader or math player would introduce an extra pain in the ass factor for me honestly. The PDF's it generates are basically unreadable if they have math symbols, but I even found a way around that if I need text which has been type set but which is also accessible. I found that if you use plastex to convert to html, then it will use images for the equations and that. However, it will tag them using alt=, and the alt tag will contain the LaTeX code used to generate them. Very nice. -- They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: $ ar m God ar: creating God There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God really does exist! Joseph C. Lininger, From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Sat Oct 9 15:45:21 2010 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 11:45:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation In-Reply-To: <4CB047D1.9010604@pcdesk.net> References: <4CB047D1.9010604@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Hello, Where is a good place to find material on learning LaTex? I am a computer engineering major at school and it is going to be heavily math oriented. Thank you, Greg Wocher ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation > Howdy folks, > I personally have started using LaTeX extensively. I do my exams using > it and the profs love it because if you run it through a pdf converter > it looks just like what they're used to seeing. I use it for all my > notes and what not because it provides a standard method for > representing math and science material, which my degree is heavy on. > > As for reading it, I just read the LaTeX code. I think having to have a > special reader such as a daisy reader or math player would introduce an > extra pain in the ass factor for me honestly. The PDF's it generates are > basically unreadable if they have math symbols, but I even found a way > around that if I need text which has been type set but which is also > accessible. I found that if you use plastex to convert to html, then it > will use images for the equations and that. However, it will tag them > using alt=, and the alt tag will contain the LaTeX code used to generate > them. Very nice. > -- > They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: > $ ar m God > ar: creating God > There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God > really does exist! > Joseph C. Lininger, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 16:49:23 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 12:49:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: New Legislation Set to Improve Internet Access for the Disabled Message-ID: <561BB0F5C9A44E119B4AC731EA5080F8@Rufus> Subject: New Legislation Set to Improve Internet Access for the Disabled New Legislation Set to Improve Internet Access for the Disabled Closed_captioning_symbol.png President Obama signed into law today the 21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act, legislation that will help people with disabilities access and participate in the digital world. The law establishes federal guidelines that will require the telecommunications industry to make sure that the devices they build and programs they transmit are accessible to those with hearing and vision impairments. The new law requires a number of measures including an improved UI for smart phones that includes verbal commands, captioning for online TV programming, and compatibility between Internet telephone calls and hearing aids. Sponsor As the President noted in the signing, the law "sets new standards so that Americans with disabilities can take advantage of the technology our economy depends on. And that's especially important in today's economy, when every worker needs the necessary skills to compete for the jobs of the future." Although some argue that these standards will likely help improve the quality of the technology that is available, others note that the implications will go beyond simply access to better technology. The cost of the equipment used to fulfill some of these tasks now and to make the Internet accessible is estimated to cost deaf and blind Americans about $10 million a year. Before signing the measure today, the president noted that 2010 marks the 20th anniversary of the enactment of the landmark Americans with Disabilities Act. But much of the emphasis of the ADA has been on ensuring access to the physical world. The law signed into effect today is meant to ensure that access also applies to the digital world. Discuss Source: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/readwriteweb/~3/5R4kvrgzHOE/new_legislation_s et_to_improve_internet_access_for.php ReadWriteWeb * Key Trends * Real-Time Web * Internet of Things * Augmented Reality * Mobile * Structured Data * Data Portability * Top Topics * facebook * twitter * android * google * mobile * apple * product innovation * Channels * ReadWriteWeb * ReadWriteStart * ReadWriteBiz * ReadWriteEnterprise * ReadWriteCloud * ReadWriteHack * ReadWriteMobile * Jobs * Reports * The Social Layer * Cloud Computing * Augmented Reality * Real-Time Web * Community Management * International * ReadWriteFrance * ReadWriteSpain * ReadWriteBrazil * ReadWriteChina * About * Subscribe * Contact * Advertise Subscribe to ReadWriteWeb * Subscribe to RWW via RSS * Follow @rww on Twitter * Join RWW on Facebook * Follow RWW on Digg * Subscribe to RWW via Email * Get the RWW iPhone App * Home * Archives * Features * Tags * Best of RWW * Featured: ReadWriteCloud New Legislation Set to Improve Internet Access for the Disabled By Audrey Watters / October 8, 2010 7:10 PM / 1 Comments Tweet Closed_captioning_symbol.png President Obama signed into law today the 21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act, legislation that will help people with disabilities access and participate in the digital world. The law establishes federal guidelines that will require the telecommunications industry to make sure that the devices they build and programs they transmit are accessible to those with hearing and vision impairments. The new law requires a number of measures including an improved UI for smart phones that includes verbal commands, captioning for online TV programming, and compatibility between Internet telephone calls and hearing aids. As the President noted in the signing, the law "sets new standards so that Americans with disabilities can take advantage of the technology our economy depends on. And that's especially important in today's economy, when every worker needs the necessary skills to compete for the jobs of the future." Although some argue that these standards will likely help improve the quality of the technology that is available, others note that the implications will go beyond simply access to better technology. The cost of the equipment used to fulfill some of these tasks now and to make the Internet accessible is estimated to cost deaf and blind Americans about $10 million a year. Before signing the measure today, the president noted that 2010 marks the 20th anniversary of the enactment of the landmark Americans with Disabilities Act. But much of the emphasis of the ADA has been on ensuring access to the physical world. The law signed into effect today is meant to ensure that access also applies to the digital world. See Also * Legislature Moves to Make Funded Research Public * Journalism Needs Data in 21st Century * Is Internet Access a Fundamental Human Right? France's High Court Says Yes Tweet < Prior Post Next Post > Posted in Government and tagged with access , closed captioning, disabilities * Comment <> * Subscribe * E-mail This * Print This * Digg * ShareShare Comments Subscribe to comments for this post OR Subscribe to comments for all ReadWriteWeb posts 1. These new requirements for closed captioning, time-coded transcripts, in all broadcast video content offered online mark an important milestone the promise of TV convergence. These captioning metadata can be used by semantic engines to identify Linked Data entities and derive highly granular dynamic understanding of the content - to better present viewers with powerfully relevant related information and recommendations. Early experiments is such dynamic semantic treatments of transcripts include: Link TV's "View Change" http://www.viewchange.org/ Mozilla's "Popcorn" http://webmademovies.etherworks.ca/popcorndemo/ The BBC's "Backstage" http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/data_art/tvrelatedcontent/ Posted by: R Macdonald Author Profile Page | October 8, 2010 10:03 PM <> Leave a comment Optional: Sign in with Connect Facebook Sign in with Twitter Twitter Sign in with OpenID OpenID | OpenID URL Sign in [ close ] Name (required) Email Address (required) URL Remember me Share on Twitter Share on FriendFeed Share on FriendFeed [X] FriendFeed remote login FriendFeed nickname or email: Remote key [ find your key ]: Comments (You may use HTML tags for style) RWW SPONSORS FOLLOW @RWW ON TWITTER follow @rww on Twitter ReadWriteWeb on Facebook ReadWriteCloud - Sponsored by VMware and Intel Visit ReadWriteWeb's new developer channel, ReadWriteHack, sponsored by Intel Atom Developer Program POPULAR TAGS * google * twitter * facebook * iphone * mobile * apple * microsoft * search * android * trends * social media * youtube * music * video * yahoo * privacy * advertising * security * ipad * firefox * myspace * amazon * developers * social networks * semantic web * rss * social networking * blogging * augmented reality * chrome * marketing * apps * mobile web * digg * friendfeed * mozilla * news * email * foursquare * gmail * browsers * api * adobe * sponsors * location * politics * bing * events * nyt * wikipedia TEXT LINK ADS RWW PARTNERS Home | Features | Trends | Best of RWW | Archives ReadWriteWeb | Startups | Small Business | Enterprise | Cloud Computing | Developers | Mobile About RWW | Subscribe to RWW | Contact | Advertise C 2003-2010 ReadWriteWeb From mikaelastevens at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 20:08:38 2010 From: mikaelastevens at gmail.com (Mikaela Stevens) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:08:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information In-Reply-To: <047D9F667CC54F448BDC7EDDB43B754A@Cptr233> References: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> <047D9F667CC54F448BDC7EDDB43B754A@Cptr233> Message-ID: Hi, The suggestions that have been given are very good! Also, there is a website called knightcite.com. (don't forget the K in knight.) First choose which citation you want (i.e. MLA or APA) Then you plug in all your information in edit and combo boxes and it creates the citation for you. All you have to do then is copy and paiste it into word or whatever you are using. One more resource, the Owl at Purdue website has great writing tools, including a guide for many of the citation styles. I am writing an APA paper now so I am right there with you figuring out how to do citations. Good luck! Mikaela On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Hi students, > > How did you all learn to do bibliographies and work cite. It's a really > hard > concept for me to grasp. I guess because there are so many things to > include. Plus my professor is, asking that I have certain parts of the text > in Italics. I want to learn how to do this. But every time I have turned in > a paper, my bibs and work cites are different, none of which have been the > right way. Any tricks are welcome, please! > > Marsha > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5516 (20101008) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40gmail.com > -- Mikaela Stevens BYU-Idaho Student 208-585-8468 From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sun Oct 10 07:16:54 2010 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 01:16:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation In-Reply-To: References: <4CB047D1.9010604@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <4CB16866.4010100@pcdesk.net> Greg, Wikibooks has an excelent book on learning LaTeX. You can either search for it yourself if you want the multipage version, or here's a link to the single page html version which it calls the "printable version". http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=LaTeX/Print_version&printable=yes Feel free to ask if you want any guidance on using LaTeX. I've learned a few tricks in my use of it which are not mentioned in the book. I have a professor who uses it extensively and he's been a help in getting things to work the way I wanted them. -- They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: $ ar m God ar: creating God There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God really does exist! Joseph C. Lininger, From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Oct 10 07:49:03 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 00:49:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation References: <4CB047D1.9010604@pcdesk.net> <4CB16866.4010100@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <4A5ACCADF54B4487A2C11B7B14E79684@stanford.edu> I also use LaTeX, so you can also send questions my direction. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] idea for math and science documentation > Greg, > Wikibooks has an excelent book on learning LaTeX. You can either search > for it yourself if you want the multipage version, or here's a link to > the single page html version which it calls the "printable version". > > http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=LaTeX/Print_version&printable=yes > > Feel free to ask if you want any guidance on using LaTeX. I've learned a > few tricks in my use of it which are not mentioned in the book. I have a > professor who uses it extensively and he's been a help in getting things > to work the way I wanted them. > -- > They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: > $ ar m God > ar: creating God > There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God > really does exist! > Joseph C. Lininger, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From aadkins7 at verizon.net Sun Oct 10 11:16:36 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 07:16:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information In-Reply-To: References: <4caf62a5.117fe50a.67b6.7741@mx.google.com> <047D9F667CC54F448BDC7EDDB43B754A@Cptr233> Message-ID: <20589617279C4BDF804B3E6CAA65E2B8@AnitaAdkinsPC> Thanks for the web address; it is a great discovery. I do know how to cite sources, but I still enjoy finding forms where I can just input info like this and because I am more familiar with APA than the other styles. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikaela Stevens" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information > Hi, > The suggestions that have been given are very good! Also, there is a > website > called knightcite.com. (don't forget the K in knight.) First choose which > citation you want (i.e. MLA or APA) Then you plug in all your information > in > edit and combo boxes and it creates the citation for you. All you have to > do > then is copy and paiste it into word or whatever you are using. > > One more resource, the Owl at Purdue website has great writing tools, > including a guide for many of the citation styles. I am writing an APA > paper > now so I am right there with you figuring out how to do citations. Good > luck! > Mikaela > > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Marsha Drenth > wrote: > >> Hi students, >> >> How did you all learn to do bibliographies and work cite. It's a really >> hard >> concept for me to grasp. I guess because there are so many things to >> include. Plus my professor is, asking that I have certain parts of the >> text >> in Italics. I want to learn how to do this. But every time I have turned >> in >> a paper, my bibs and work cites are different, none of which have been >> the >> right way. Any tricks are welcome, please! >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5516 (20101008) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Mikaela Stevens > BYU-Idaho Student > 208-585-8468 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Oct 11 01:17:52 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 21:17:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Manual of the American Psychological Association 6th edition is on Bookshare. Download that and you're good to go.RE: bibliography and work cite information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <378436D0C4304B449C2F8ABE6B2658F7@SerenaPC> -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mikaela Stevens Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 4:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bibliography and work cite information Hi, The suggestions that have been given are very good! Also, there is a website called knightcite.com. (don't forget the K in knight.) First choose which citation you want (i.e. MLA or APA) Then you plug in all your information in edit and combo boxes and it creates the citation for you. All you have to do then is copy and paiste it into word or whatever you are using. One more resource, the Owl at Purdue website has great writing tools, including a guide for many of the citation styles. I am writing an APA paper now so I am right there with you figuring out how to do citations. Good luck! Mikaela On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Hi students, > > How did you all learn to do bibliographies and work cite. It's a really > hard > concept for me to grasp. I guess because there are so many things to > include. Plus my professor is, asking that I have certain parts of the text > in Italics. I want to learn how to do this. But every time I have turned in > a paper, my bibs and work cites are different, none of which have been the > right way. Any tricks are welcome, please! > > Marsha > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5516 (20101008) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40gma il.com > -- Mikaela Stevens BYU-Idaho Student 208-585-8468 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 11 04:42:26 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 21:42:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Re bookshare version of APA manual, sixth edition Message-ID: Hi Serena, I have a Bookshare version not of this APA manual, but of the most current MLA manual. I put it on my Victor Reader stream, in the text folderr. My issue with this MLA manual is that some of the punctuation does not seem to be read b, such as underlining and italics, even when I navigate character by character. I could be wrong and just missed some items read by the stream. Do you read this APA manual on the stream, or in some other device or your computer, and can you go character by character and get all the punctuation? This is not to say, by the way, that the manuals from Bookshare are not helpful, but just some details may be missing. Just curious, Best, Ginnie From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Oct 11 18:52:55 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:52:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Re bookshare version of APA manual, sixth edition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I use it on my BrailleNote. I actually haven't gotten to read it yet, so don't know how the punctuation is shown in Braille. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of V Nork Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:42 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] Re bookshare version of APA manual, sixth edition Hi Serena, I have a Bookshare version not of this APA manual, but of the most current MLA manual. I put it on my Victor Reader stream, in the text folderr. My issue with this MLA manual is that some of the punctuation does not seem to be read b, such as underlining and italics, even when I navigate character by character. I could be wrong and just missed some items read by the stream. Do you read this APA manual on the stream, or in some other device or your computer, and can you go character by character and get all the punctuation? This is not to say, by the way, that the manuals from Bookshare are not helpful, but just some details may be missing. Just curious, Best, Ginnie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 19:39:03 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 12:39:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs membership Conference call: About S.T.E.M. Message-ID: Attention All Students! Ever been curious about what majors and specializations blind individuals have had in the past? Have you ever felt like learning about fields such as Science, Technology, Engineering and Math- (STEM), are “too difficult”? Do alternative techniques a blind person may use in such fields just baffle you? If any of the above apply to you- Please attend the Membership phone call, presented by the Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students. We are going to cover concerns, techniques, and generalized information about how blind students can participate on equal terms with their sighted peers, even when focusing on STEM fields. Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010 When: 7:15 pm EST # Where: NABS conference line- (712)775-7100 Code: 257963#. Why: TO learn and network with other blind students who wish to pursuer careers, or just get to know about opportunities in the STEM fields for the blind. We will discuss items such as the NASA Excel program, Youth Slam, the Junior Science Academy, etc… We are open to all types of technique questions, resource question, to be answered by the guest speaker and the committee. Hope to see you there! Sincerely, Membership Committee National Association of Blind Students From corbbo at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 23:30:12 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 19:30:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Upcoming FREE Webinar: Access to Mathematics and Science for Blind Students Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: The Hadley School for the Blind Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:05 PM Subject: Hadley eConnect, October 11, 2010 This newsletter is best viewed in HTML format. [image: header image: eConnect from The Hadley School for the Blind] ** *Seminars at Hadley Presents: Access to Mathematics & Science for Blind Students* *Date:* Thursday, October 21, 2010 *Time:* 11AM CDT, 16:00 GMT Are you interested in a career in science, technology, engineering or mathematics? As a student who is blind have you had difficulty understanding science and math as spoken and practiced in the classroom? As a teacher, do you find it difficult to translate science experiments and mathematical language into something that is meaningful for blind students? Join Seminars at Hadley as Dr. Cary Supalo and Mr. Mick Isaacson discuss the importance of a hands-on science learning experience for the blind as well as rules for speaking mathematics in a way that it can be easily learned. Learn about cutting edge tools and rules that empower students and teachers to make math and science easier, more accessible, and more interesting. This 60 minute seminar will be moderated by Billy Brookshire, Hadley Outreach Coordinator. A question and answer session will be included as part of the seminar. As always, listening to the seminar remains free of charge. There is a US $25 fee associated with completing the seminar for credit (1 CE hour). Professionals interested in receiving continuing education credit will be required to successfully complete a quiz and brief survey before a certificate is issued. (ACVREP approval pending) To register for this seminar, follow this link * * *Professionals, we appreciate your referrals!* * * Hadley encourages you to forward this newsletter to a friend. *Follow us on:*[image: facebook logo] *Facebook* [image: twitter logo] *Twitter* About Hadley Enroll Now Donate Online [image: footer image: 'Lifelong Learning since 1920' The Hadley School for the Blind, 700 Elm Street, Winnetka, IL 60093, 800-323-4238, www.hadley.edu] From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 01:51:42 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:51:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google tests cars that can steer without drivers Message-ID: <47B2D97452004F34B8994F33ECA4A4BC@Rufus> Ah, look at this? For all the nay-sayers like myself who think cars that drive themselves are a thing of pipe dreams. Maybe a reconsideration is in order, but only just maybe.--Joe Google tests cars that can steer without drivers Video Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Guerrino De Luca, chairman of Logitech International SA, talks about the outlook for Google Inc.'s TV service, which will debut this month on Sony Corp. and Logitech devices. De Luca talks with Matt Miller and Carol Massar on Bloomberg Television's "Street Smart." (Source: Bloomberg) > LAUNCH VIDEO PLAYER Network News X Profile View More Activity TOOLBOX Resize Print E-mail Reprints COMMENT 0 Comments Your browser's settings may be preventing you from commenting on and viewing comments about this item. See instructions for fixing the problem. Discussion Policy CLOSE Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the content that you post. By DANIEL WAGNER The Associated Press Sunday, October 10, 2010; 6:23 PM WASHINGTON -- Google Inc. is road-testing cars that steer, stop and start without a human driver, the company says. This Story Google tests cars that can steer without drivers Munster Says Google, Apple in `First Inning' of TV Clash: Video Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video The goal is to "help prevent traffic accidents, free up people's time and reduce carbon emissions" through ride sharing and "the new 'highway trains of tomorrow,'" project leader Sebastian Thrun wrote Saturday on Google's corporate blog. The cars are never unmanned, Thrun wrote. He said a backup driver is always behind the wheel to monitor the software. It's not the first signal that Google wants to change how people get from place to place. In a speech Sept. 29 at the TechCrunch "Disrupt" conference, Google CEO Eric Schmidt said "your car should drive itself. It just makes sense." "It's a bug that cars were invented before computers," Schmidt said. The cars have traveled a total of 140,000 miles on major California roads without much human intervention, according to Google's corporate blog. The Mountain View, Calif.-based technology giant has sent seven test cars a total of 1,000 miles without a human touching the controls at all, the New York Times reported. The newspaper published a report on the cars earlier Sunday. The cars know speed limits, traffic patterns and road maps, Thrun's posting says. They use video cameras, radar sensors and lasers to detect other cars. Driving between Northern California and Southern California, the cars have navigated San Francisco's curvy Lombard Street, Los Angeles' Hollywood Boulevard and the cliff-hugging Pacific Coast Highway, the blog says. Engineers consider the cars safer because they react more quickly than humans, the New York Times said. It said Google has not revealed how it hopes to profit from the research. The company is flush with cash, though, and pushing numerous projects such as the cars that are unrelated to its core business, said Rob Enderle, principal analyst with the Enderle Group in San Jose, Calif. "The word 'focus' is a word Google has never learned," Enderle said, pointing to projects involving electricity distribution, vehicle design and artificial intelligence. He said cars that can drive themselves would allow commuters more time to surf the web, something Google would encourage. Still, Enderle said, industry leaders such as Volkswagen and Intel Corp. are working on similar technology. He said "driverless" vehicles will make computers more like the robots imagined in the 1920s, rather than the tabletop data processors we use today. The blog says the technology is being developed by scientists who were involved in an earlier set of unmanned car races organized by the government's Defense Advance Research Projects Agency. ---- AP Technology Writer Michael Liedtke in San Francisco contributed to this report. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 01:51:42 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:51:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding Your Way Indoors Message-ID: For iPhone and Android enthusiasts. If we could reach out to the developers to make sure these apps talk, we'd be in business.--Joe Finding Your Way Through the Mall or the Airport, With a Cellphone Map Laura Pedrick for The New York Times FastMall offers a floor plan and can search for stores and plot a path there. Shaking the phone will show the nearest restroom. By VERNE G. KOPYTOFF Published: October 10, 2010 SAN FRANCISCO - Mobile phone maps have guided people through streets and alleys around the globe. But when those people step into a sprawling building, they can get lost. Inside, people have to ask strangers for directions or search for a directory or wall map. A number of start-up companies are charting the interiors of shopping malls, convention centers and airports to keep mobile phone users from getting lost as they walk from the food court to the restroom. Some of their maps might even be able to locate cans of sardines in a sprawling grocery store. "It was my wife's idea - she was six months' pregnant and she couldn't find a restroom," said Sam G. Feuer, chief executive of MindSmack, the New York company behind FastMall, one of the indoor mapping services. "It's the same thing for people in wheelchairs or with strollers who need an elevator." Users see a floor plan of a shopping mall, for example, with stores indicated by name. Escalators, exits, restrooms and elevators are also marked. FastMall has a search engine to help users find stores on its maps. Enter "Banana Republic" and the service places a pin on the map to show the store's location. Tap the "take me there" button and the service plots a route to the destination. To find the nearest restroom, all users have to do is shake their phone. Most of the indoor mapping apps are free, like PointInside, FastMall and Micello, which work on the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. PointInside is also available for many Android phones. Because mobile Internet connections are sometimes difficult to make indoors, some of the services download their maps onto users' phones when they first check in on the service. If the connection later fails, the user still has access to the map. The various mapping services differ in how they obtain their maps. Some get them from mall management companies or mall developers. Others use maps that are already available online or they copy ones posted on mall directories (sometimes by taking photographs of them or by encouraging their users do so). In almost all cases, the services have to customize the maps to fit a standard size and font and to fill in any missing information. Ankit Agarwal, chief executive of Micello, an indoor mapping service based in Sunnyvale, Calif., has created a library of nearly 2,000 maps, most of them of American shopping malls. He said his team could recreate a mall floor plan in a couple of hours, based on originals that they find in the public domain. "We never have to visit the place," Mr. Agarwal said. No malls have complained, he added. Inevitably, maps become outdated as stores close and new ones replace them. Since the mapmakers cannot possibly keep visiting each one, they rely on users to tell them that a map needs to be updated. Dan Jasper, a spokesman for Mall of America in Bloomington, Minn., said his mall - the biggest in the United States, with 520 stores - is working on its own mobile phone app so shoppers will have a more reliable floor plan. He thinks it is an important tool that could increase sales and traffic. For now, shopping malls are getting the most attention from indoor mapmakers, although many of them hope to add casinos, stadiums, universities and hospitals - anything big enough to get lost in and that draws big crowds. They are also interested in outdoor destinations like theme parks, zoos and urban shopping districts. Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, Calif., is already available on FastMall, for instance. In some cases, Micello's maps show details beyond the basic four walls. A map of the Ikea store in East Palo Alto, Calif., features an aisle winding through the store and the locations of departments like "children's" and "closet systems." Aisle411, a mobile service that is set to start next month, is hoping to take the detail even further by allowing users to find individual products inside stores. Shoppers in a grocery store can search for "capers," for instance, and then get a map to the appropriate aisle. Nathan M. Pettyjohn, chief executive of Aisle411, based in St. Louis, said retailers lose a large number of customers because shoppers cannot find what they want. The problem is compounded for big-box retailers, whose vast stores seem built to create frustration. Aisle411 has worked with a few retail chains and has created maps with their help. For other stores, the company is relying on publicly available maps, some guess work and volunteers to indicate where products are located. "We get about 90 percent accuracy," Mr. Pettyjohn said. Given the early stages of indoor mapping, its business model is still a work in progress. Location-based advertising and coupons are one possibility, as is charging malls to create their floor plans. Some companies have tried licensing maps to other companies. Still others are considering selling user data to retailers and product manufacturers. Despite the miniboom in indoor mapping, Vikrant Gandhi, an analyst with Frost & Sullivan, said the niche faced challenges. Mobile marketing, the most common idea for making money, has yet to prove itself, he said. Google, with its dominant Google Maps, worries some in the industry. Google could crush the tiny indoor mapmakers by creating its own competing service. But it is just as likely that it could be a savior by buying one or more companies or licensing their data. A Google spokeswoman declined to comment. Mr. Agarwal, from Micello, said he was just excited by the prospect of all that remained to be mapped indoors. Speaking about his service last month at a mobile phone conference at the University of California, San Francisco, he looked out the window and declared, "I want to map every building on this campus." A version of this article appeared in print on October 11, 2010, on page B3 of the New York edition. From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 02:09:01 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 19:09:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding Your Way Indoors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB3C33D.7080806@gmail.com> Hello Joe, I'm not necessarily sure we should automatically assume these apps can't help us right now. We obviously can't read maps, but there might be enough text to make them useful. Has anyone tried the three apps mentioned in the article yet? If so, please consider visiting http://applevis.com and telling the blind iDevice user community about them. Regards, Darrell On 10/11/2010 6:51 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > For iPhone and Android enthusiasts. If we could reach out to the developers > to make sure these apps talk, we'd be in business.--Joe > > Finding Your Way Through the Mall or the Airport, With a Cellphone Map > > Laura Pedrick for The New York Times > FastMall offers a floor plan and can search for stores and plot a path > there. Shaking the phone will show the nearest restroom. > > By VERNE G. KOPYTOFF > Published: October 10, 2010 > > > SAN FRANCISCO - Mobile phone maps have guided people through streets and > alleys around the globe. But when those people step into a sprawling > building, they can get lost. > > Inside, people have to ask strangers for directions or search for a > directory or wall map. A number of start-up companies are charting the > interiors of shopping malls, convention centers and airports to keep mobile > phone users from getting lost as they walk from the food court to the > restroom. Some of their maps might even be able to locate cans of sardines > in a sprawling grocery store. > > "It was my wife's idea - she was six months' pregnant and she couldn't find > a restroom," said Sam G. Feuer, chief executive of MindSmack, the New York > company behind FastMall, one of the indoor mapping services. "It's the same > thing for people in wheelchairs or with strollers who need an elevator." > > Users see a floor plan of a shopping mall, for example, with stores > indicated by name. Escalators, exits, restrooms and elevators are also > marked. > > FastMall has a search engine to help users find stores on its maps. Enter > "Banana Republic" and the service places a pin on the map to show the > store's location. Tap the "take me there" button and the service plots a > route to the destination. To find the nearest restroom, all users have to do > is shake their phone. > > Most of the indoor mapping apps are free, like PointInside, FastMall and > Micello, which work on the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. PointInside is also > available for many Android phones. > > Because mobile Internet connections are sometimes difficult to make indoors, > some of the services download their maps onto users' phones when they first > check in on the service. If the connection later fails, the user still has > access to the map. > > The various mapping services differ in how they obtain their maps. Some get > them from mall management companies or mall developers. Others use maps that > are already available online or they copy ones posted on mall directories > (sometimes by taking photographs of them or by encouraging their users do > so). > > In almost all cases, the services have to customize the maps to fit a > standard size and font and to fill in any missing information. > > Ankit Agarwal, chief executive of Micello, an indoor mapping service based > in Sunnyvale, Calif., has created a library of nearly 2,000 maps, most of > them of American shopping malls. He said his team could recreate a mall > floor plan in a couple of hours, based on originals that they find in the > public domain. > > "We never have to visit the place," Mr. Agarwal said. No malls have > complained, he added. > > Inevitably, maps become outdated as stores close and new ones replace them. > Since the mapmakers cannot possibly keep visiting each one, they rely on > users to tell them that a map needs to be updated. > > Dan Jasper, a spokesman for Mall of America in Bloomington, Minn., said his > mall - the biggest in the United States, with 520 stores - is working on its > own mobile phone app so shoppers will have a more reliable floor plan. He > thinks it is an important tool that could increase sales and traffic. > > For now, shopping malls are getting the most attention from indoor > mapmakers, although many of them hope to add casinos, stadiums, universities > and hospitals - anything big enough to get lost in and that draws big > crowds. They are also interested in outdoor destinations like theme parks, > zoos and urban shopping districts. Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, Calif., is > already available on FastMall, for instance. > > In some cases, Micello's maps show details beyond the basic four walls. A > map of the Ikea store in East Palo Alto, Calif., features an aisle winding > through the store and the locations of departments like "children's" and > "closet systems." > > Aisle411, a mobile service that is set to start next month, is hoping to > take the detail even further by allowing users to find individual products > inside stores. Shoppers in a grocery store can search for "capers," for > instance, and then get a map to the appropriate aisle. > > Nathan M. Pettyjohn, chief executive of Aisle411, based in St. Louis, said > retailers lose a large number of customers because shoppers cannot find what > they want. The problem is compounded for big-box retailers, whose vast > stores seem built to create frustration. > > Aisle411 has worked with a few retail chains and has created maps with their > help. For other stores, the company is relying on publicly available maps, > some guess work and volunteers to indicate where products are located. "We > get about 90 percent accuracy," Mr. Pettyjohn said. > > Given the early stages of indoor mapping, its business model is still a work > in progress. Location-based advertising and coupons are one possibility, as > is charging malls to create their floor plans. Some companies have tried > licensing maps to other companies. Still others are considering selling user > data to retailers and product manufacturers. > > Despite the miniboom in indoor mapping, Vikrant Gandhi, an analyst with > Frost& Sullivan, said the niche faced challenges. Mobile marketing, the > most common idea for making money, has yet to prove itself, he said. > > Google, with its dominant Google Maps, worries some in the industry. Google > could crush the tiny indoor mapmakers by creating its own competing service. > But it is just as likely that it could be a savior by buying one or more > companies or licensing their data. A Google spokeswoman declined to comment. > > > Mr. Agarwal, from Micello, said he was just excited by the prospect of all > that remained to be mapped indoors. Speaking about his service last month at > a mobile phone conference at the University of California, San Francisco, he > looked out the window and declared, "I want to map every building on this > campus." > > A version of this article appeared in print on October 11, 2010, on page B3 > of the New York edition. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com From dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 02:12:59 2010 From: dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:12:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer without drivers Message-ID: <4cb3c43b.cefde50a.7168.ffffacab@mx.google.com> Hey this is cool! Thanks! I'm in the same boat as you on the car without steering thing. That would be interesting if this experiment yielded good results. Danielle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" , "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" References: <4cb3c43b.cefde50a.7168.ffffacab@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If Ray Kurzweil can promise fixing disease, and improving the human being with ingections of computer parts into our bloodstream, if such unimaginable feats of science can ever come to reality some day, then automated driving can't be that far off. Thanks Joe, Antonio On Oct 11, 2010, at 10:12 P M, Danielle Montour wrote: > Hey this is cool! Thanks! I'm in the same boat as you on the car without steering thing. That would be interesting if this experiment yielded good results. > > Danielle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'", "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" Date sent: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:51:42 -0400 > Subject: [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer without drivers > > Ah, look at this? For all the nay-sayers like myself who think cars that > drive themselves are a thing of pipe dreams. Maybe a reconsideration is in > order, but only just maybe.--Joe > > Google tests cars that can steer without drivers > > Video > > Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video > Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Guerrino De Luca, chairman of Logitech International > SA, talks about the outlook for Google Inc.'s TV service, which will debut > this month on Sony Corp. and Logitech devices. De Luca talks with Matt > Miller and Carol Massar on Bloomberg Television's "Street Smart." (Source: > Bloomberg) > LAUNCH VIDEO PLAYER > > Network News > X Profile > View More Activity > TOOLBOX > Resize > Print > E-mail > Reprints > COMMENT > 0 Comments > Your browser's settings may be preventing you from commenting on and viewing > comments about this item. See instructions for fixing the problem. > Discussion Policy > CLOSE > Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate > comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries > that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual > author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who > violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or > any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules > governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the > content that you post. > By DANIEL WAGNER > The Associated Press > Sunday, October 10, 2010; 6:23 PM > > WASHINGTON -- Google Inc. is road-testing cars that steer, stop and start > without a human driver, the company says. > > This Story > Google tests cars that can steer without drivers > Munster Says Google, Apple in `First Inning' of TV Clash: Video > Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video > The goal is to "help prevent traffic accidents, free up people's time and > reduce carbon emissions" through ride sharing and "the new 'highway trains > of tomorrow,'" project leader Sebastian Thrun wrote Saturday on Google's > corporate blog. > > The cars are never unmanned, Thrun wrote. He said a backup driver is always > behind the wheel to monitor the software. > > It's not the first signal that Google wants to change how people get from > place to place. In a speech Sept. 29 at the TechCrunch "Disrupt" conference, > Google CEO Eric Schmidt said "your car should drive itself. It just makes > sense." > > "It's a bug that cars were invented before computers," Schmidt said. > > The cars have traveled a total of 140,000 miles on major California roads > without much human intervention, according to Google's corporate blog. > > The Mountain View, Calif.-based technology giant has sent seven test cars a > total of 1,000 miles without a human touching the controls at all, the New > York Times reported. The newspaper published a report on the cars earlier > Sunday. > > The cars know speed limits, traffic patterns and road maps, Thrun's posting > says. They use video cameras, radar sensors and lasers to detect other cars. > > > Driving between Northern California and Southern California, the cars have > navigated San Francisco's curvy Lombard Street, Los Angeles' Hollywood > Boulevard and the cliff-hugging Pacific Coast Highway, the blog says. > > Engineers consider the cars safer because they react more quickly than > humans, the New York Times said. It said Google has not revealed how it > hopes to profit from the research. > > The company is flush with cash, though, and pushing numerous projects such > as the cars that are unrelated to its core business, said Rob Enderle, > principal analyst with the Enderle Group in San Jose, Calif. > > "The word 'focus' is a word Google has never learned," Enderle said, > pointing to projects involving electricity distribution, vehicle design and > artificial intelligence. He said cars that can drive themselves would allow > commuters more time to surf the web, something Google would encourage. > > Still, Enderle said, industry leaders such as Volkswagen and Intel Corp. are > working on similar technology. He said "driverless" vehicles will make > computers more like the robots imagined in the 1920s, rather than the > tabletop data processors we use today. > > The blog says the technology is being developed by scientists who were > involved in an earlier set of unmanned car races organized by the > government's Defense Advance Research Projects Agency. > > ---- > > AP Technology Writer Michael Liedtke in San Francisco contributed to this > report. > > > _______________________________________________ > Writers Division web site: > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org > stylist mailing list > stylist at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dannivoi > ceangel333%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 03:26:20 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:26:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer without drivers In-Reply-To: References: <4cb3c43b.cefde50a.7168.ffffacab@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4CB3D55C.2060903@gmail.com> Hey Joe, I'll never trust the guy who inspired the inaccessible Blio launch with injecting nanoprobes or anything else into my body and neither should anybody else. What if they crash your brain or make it inaccessible? :) On 10/11/2010 8:19 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > If Ray Kurzweil can promise fixing disease, and improving the human being with ingections of computer parts into our bloodstream, if such unimaginable feats of science can ever come to reality some day, then automated driving can't be that far off. > > Thanks Joe, > > Antonio > On Oct 11, 2010, at 10:12 P > M, Danielle Montour wrote: > >> Hey this is cool! Thanks! I'm in the same boat as you on the car without steering thing. That would be interesting if this experiment yielded good results. >> >> Danielle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco"> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'", "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"> Date sent: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:51:42 -0400 >> Subject: [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer without drivers >> >> Ah, look at this? For all the nay-sayers like myself who think cars that >> drive themselves are a thing of pipe dreams. Maybe a reconsideration is in >> order, but only just maybe.--Joe >> >> Google tests cars that can steer without drivers >> >> Video >> >> Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video >> Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Guerrino De Luca, chairman of Logitech International >> SA, talks about the outlook for Google Inc.'s TV service, which will debut >> this month on Sony Corp. and Logitech devices. De Luca talks with Matt >> Miller and Carol Massar on Bloomberg Television's "Street Smart." (Source: >> Bloomberg) >> LAUNCH VIDEO PLAYER >> >> Network News >> X Profile >> View More Activity >> TOOLBOX >> Resize >> Print >> E-mail >> Reprints >> COMMENT >> 0 Comments >> Your browser's settings may be preventing you from commenting on and viewing >> comments about this item. See instructions for fixing the problem. >> Discussion Policy >> CLOSE >> Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate >> comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries >> that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual >> author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who >> violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or >> any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules >> governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the >> content that you post. >> By DANIEL WAGNER >> The Associated Press >> Sunday, October 10, 2010; 6:23 PM >> >> WASHINGTON -- Google Inc. is road-testing cars that steer, stop and start >> without a human driver, the company says. >> >> This Story >> Google tests cars that can steer without drivers >> Munster Says Google, Apple in `First Inning' of TV Clash: Video >> Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video >> The goal is to "help prevent traffic accidents, free up people's time and >> reduce carbon emissions" through ride sharing and "the new 'highway trains >> of tomorrow,'" project leader Sebastian Thrun wrote Saturday on Google's >> corporate blog. >> >> The cars are never unmanned, Thrun wrote. He said a backup driver is always >> behind the wheel to monitor the software. >> >> It's not the first signal that Google wants to change how people get from >> place to place. In a speech Sept. 29 at the TechCrunch "Disrupt" conference, >> Google CEO Eric Schmidt said "your car should drive itself. It just makes >> sense." >> >> "It's a bug that cars were invented before computers," Schmidt said. >> >> The cars have traveled a total of 140,000 miles on major California roads >> without much human intervention, according to Google's corporate blog. >> >> The Mountain View, Calif.-based technology giant has sent seven test cars a >> total of 1,000 miles without a human touching the controls at all, the New >> York Times reported. The newspaper published a report on the cars earlier >> Sunday. >> >> The cars know speed limits, traffic patterns and road maps, Thrun's posting >> says. They use video cameras, radar sensors and lasers to detect other cars. >> >> >> Driving between Northern California and Southern California, the cars have >> navigated San Francisco's curvy Lombard Street, Los Angeles' Hollywood >> Boulevard and the cliff-hugging Pacific Coast Highway, the blog says. >> >> Engineers consider the cars safer because they react more quickly than >> humans, the New York Times said. It said Google has not revealed how it >> hopes to profit from the research. >> >> The company is flush with cash, though, and pushing numerous projects such >> as the cars that are unrelated to its core business, said Rob Enderle, >> principal analyst with the Enderle Group in San Jose, Calif. >> >> "The word 'focus' is a word Google has never learned," Enderle said, >> pointing to projects involving electricity distribution, vehicle design and >> artificial intelligence. He said cars that can drive themselves would allow >> commuters more time to surf the web, something Google would encourage. >> >> Still, Enderle said, industry leaders such as Volkswagen and Intel Corp. are >> working on similar technology. He said "driverless" vehicles will make >> computers more like the robots imagined in the 1920s, rather than the >> tabletop data processors we use today. >> >> The blog says the technology is being developed by scientists who were >> involved in an earlier set of unmanned car races organized by the >> government's Defense Advance Research Projects Agency. >> >> ---- >> >> AP Technology Writer Michael Liedtke in San Francisco contributed to this >> report. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Writers Division web site: >> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org> >> stylist mailing list >> stylist at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dannivoi >> ceangel333%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 03:35:25 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:35:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Announces First Conference Call for Parents of Blind Children! Message-ID: Attention All Parents! Not sure about how your blind child is going to tackle classes such as Biology or Physics? Ever been curious about what majors and specialization blind individuals have had in the past? Do you believe that careers and learning about fields such as Science, Technology, Engineering and Math- (STEM), are “too difficult” or “dangerous” for your blind child? Do alternative techniques a blind person may use in such fields just baffle you? If any of the above apply to you- Please attend the Membership phone call, presented by the Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students. We are going to cover concerns, techniques, and general information about how blind students can participate on equal terms with their sighted peers, especially in STEM fields. Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010 When: 6:00 pm EST Where: NABS conference line- (712)775-7100 Code: 257963#. Why: TO learn and network with other parents of blind children and blind students who have experiences navigating through the STEM fields for the blind. Our special guest speaker, Arielle Silverman earned her Bachelor’s degree from Arizona State University in Biology. She will offer a very distinct perspective on how to navigate through what can be perceived as the very turbulent waters of STEM. Different opportunity, techniques, strategies and concepts will be discussed during the call. We look forward to talking with you! Kindest Regards, Membership Committee National Association of Blind Students -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 03:38:08 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:38:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer withoutdrivers In-Reply-To: <4CB3D55C.2060903@gmail.com> References: <4cb3c43b.cefde50a.7168.ffffacab@mx.google.com> <4CB3D55C.2060903@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, ain't no one injecting me with nothin'. But since Google pretty much already controls most every other part of my life, they may as well influence my potential for driving. :) Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darrell Shandrow Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 11:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer withoutdrivers Hey Joe, I'll never trust the guy who inspired the inaccessible Blio launch with injecting nanoprobes or anything else into my body and neither should anybody else. What if they crash your brain or make it inaccessible? :) On 10/11/2010 8:19 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > If Ray Kurzweil can promise fixing disease, and improving the human being with ingections of computer parts into our bloodstream, if such unimaginable feats of science can ever come to reality some day, then automated driving can't be that far off. > > Thanks Joe, > > Antonio > On Oct 11, 2010, at 10:12 P > M, Danielle Montour wrote: > >> Hey this is cool! Thanks! I'm in the same boat as you on the car without steering thing. That would be interesting if this experiment yielded good results. >> >> Danielle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco"> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'", "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"> Date sent: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:51:42 -0400 >> Subject: [stylist] Google tests cars that can steer without drivers >> >> Ah, look at this? For all the nay-sayers like myself who think cars that >> drive themselves are a thing of pipe dreams. Maybe a reconsideration is in >> order, but only just maybe.--Joe >> >> Google tests cars that can steer without drivers >> >> Video >> >> Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video >> Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Guerrino De Luca, chairman of Logitech International >> SA, talks about the outlook for Google Inc.'s TV service, which will debut >> this month on Sony Corp. and Logitech devices. De Luca talks with Matt >> Miller and Carol Massar on Bloomberg Television's "Street Smart." (Source: >> Bloomberg) >> LAUNCH VIDEO PLAYER >> >> Network News >> X Profile >> View More Activity >> TOOLBOX >> Resize >> Print >> E-mail >> Reprints >> COMMENT >> 0 Comments >> Your browser's settings may be preventing you from commenting on and viewing >> comments about this item. See instructions for fixing the problem. >> Discussion Policy >> CLOSE >> Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate >> comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries >> that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual >> author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who >> violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or >> any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules >> governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the >> content that you post. >> By DANIEL WAGNER >> The Associated Press >> Sunday, October 10, 2010; 6:23 PM >> >> WASHINGTON -- Google Inc. is road-testing cars that steer, stop and start >> without a human driver, the company says. >> >> This Story >> Google tests cars that can steer without drivers >> Munster Says Google, Apple in `First Inning' of TV Clash: Video >> Logitech's De Luca Says Google `Not Replacing' Cable TV: Video >> The goal is to "help prevent traffic accidents, free up people's time and >> reduce carbon emissions" through ride sharing and "the new 'highway trains >> of tomorrow,'" project leader Sebastian Thrun wrote Saturday on Google's >> corporate blog. >> >> The cars are never unmanned, Thrun wrote. He said a backup driver is always >> behind the wheel to monitor the software. >> >> It's not the first signal that Google wants to change how people get from >> place to place. In a speech Sept. 29 at the TechCrunch "Disrupt" conference, >> Google CEO Eric Schmidt said "your car should drive itself. It just makes >> sense." >> >> "It's a bug that cars were invented before computers," Schmidt said. >> >> The cars have traveled a total of 140,000 miles on major California roads >> without much human intervention, according to Google's corporate blog. >> >> The Mountain View, Calif.-based technology giant has sent seven test cars a >> total of 1,000 miles without a human touching the controls at all, the New >> York Times reported. The newspaper published a report on the cars earlier >> Sunday. >> >> The cars know speed limits, traffic patterns and road maps, Thrun's posting >> says. They use video cameras, radar sensors and lasers to detect other cars. >> >> >> Driving between Northern California and Southern California, the cars have >> navigated San Francisco's curvy Lombard Street, Los Angeles' Hollywood >> Boulevard and the cliff-hugging Pacific Coast Highway, the blog says. >> >> Engineers consider the cars safer because they react more quickly than >> humans, the New York Times said. It said Google has not revealed how it >> hopes to profit from the research. >> >> The company is flush with cash, though, and pushing numerous projects such >> as the cars that are unrelated to its core business, said Rob Enderle, >> principal analyst with the Enderle Group in San Jose, Calif. >> >> "The word 'focus' is a word Google has never learned," Enderle said, >> pointing to projects involving electricity distribution, vehicle design and >> artificial intelligence. He said cars that can drive themselves would allow >> commuters more time to surf the web, something Google would encourage. >> >> Still, Enderle said, industry leaders such as Volkswagen and Intel Corp. are >> working on similar technology. He said "driverless" vehicles will make >> computers more like the robots imagined in the 1920s, rather than the >> tabletop data processors we use today. >> >> The blog says the technology is being developed by scientists who were >> involved in an earlier set of unmanned car races organized by the >> government's Defense Advance Research Projects Agency. >> >> ---- >> >> AP Technology Writer Michael Liedtke in San Francisco contributed to this >> report. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Writers Division web site: >> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org> >> stylist mailing list >> stylist at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dannivoi >> ceangel333%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethau ght%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell. shandrow%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 20:54:29 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 16:54:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions Message-ID: Hi All: I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one post. First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus depots. When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere simple. However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest Village Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to take, and what times the lines run? I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking general questions and see where I get from there. Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or location of each stop. Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to deviate for construction or something like that. My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that I wanted to get your opinions on. We have an area with sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town Center. I initially was under the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my first bus trip. However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long hill and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie at the movie theater. There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done but they wouldn't be as efficient. Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd be too much work/reconstruction. Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my griping or does action need to be taken? Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but get to practice cane travel as well. And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate them with ease? Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to the mall instead. Kerri From aadkins7 at verizon.net Tue Oct 12 21:20:59 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:20:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E5660ED71AE457BA37F6F908F3E741E@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello, Congratulations on your bravery to try a bus trip alone. It is scary for the first time. First, when I use the city bus, I call and tell the company I am blind and I am waiting at such and such place so they know to stop as I cannot see to flag them down, and this works really well. Only one time did I have to be insistent about the matter. Bigger cities than the one I live in happen to have bus stops where one could just wait to catch the bus. For your first time, I would recommend you take a trip you can be successful at, which means do not try to worry about shopping at several different places or whatever; just get on, go to one location, and come home. You can build on your confidence by taking this trip again, and then, the next time, add a destination. Remember, the more you go, the more comfortable you will become. Your description of your apartment to your bus stops sounds doable from your description, but again, maybe I do not understand it all the way. When I get on the bus, I do tell the bus driver that I need off at such and such place, but also, I pay attention to the time because I have ridden enough to know that I should be there at a specific time give or take. So I will remind the driver if the trip is long that I need to get off about five or so minutes before I reach my destination. They know me here now, and so most of the time, actually, I don't tell them anything since they know my schedule, but in new towns I've lived in and in this area when I was new to it, I did this. If you have no bus experience at all, you might want to try the deviated route, but I would want to avoid using it if I could because it may be necessary for you to call ahead, and I personally don't like to do this because sometimes I prefer to be spontaneous. Also, walking to the bus pickup location gives you more exercise. Again, I am saying this without knowing your town at all. If your apartment is really arranged so that it isn't safe for you to walk to the bus stop, then you wouldn't want to walk to the bus stop obviously. Make sure to learn this information that you ask a person who is knowledgable in blind skills and who knows your area because others may feel it isn't safe when it really is. Also, perhaps you could invite your friend who lives a half hour away up for a day or a weekend, and you two could take the bus together. It is fun to have someone to travel with, and you could get your feet wet with a friend along for the firsttime journey, which, in my opinion, is okay. If not, don't let no company stop you, however. Just some thoughts, and have a great time. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > Hi All: > > I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope > these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one > post. > > First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the > bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having > is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving > students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live > downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do > not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the > bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus > depots. > > When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the > bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first > street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My > apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't > know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On > top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this > complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. > > Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives > in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before > tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they > will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you > up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere > simple. > > However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling > them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first > time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with > disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? > > Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest > Village > Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the > Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to > take, and what times the lines run? > > I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to > apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking > general questions and see where I get from there. > > Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there > anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has > taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but > I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so > is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain > items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here > and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get > out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. > HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or > announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to > do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let > me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. > > Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out > in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a > description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or > location of each stop. > > Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and > Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to > deviate for construction or something like that. > > > > My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that > I wanted to get your opinions on. > > We have an area with > sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town > Center. I initially was under > the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. > So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my > first bus trip. > > However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian > friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long > hill > and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane > highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some > research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they > are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could > have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another > such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been > told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This > shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, > Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe > store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis > Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden > Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. > > Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off > at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one > place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get > groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie > at the movie theater. > > There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done > but they wouldn't be as efficient. > > Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider > pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. > > Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area > and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe > have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this > area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no > point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd > be too much work/reconstruction. > > Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my > griping or does action need to be taken? > > Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a > movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I > could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but > for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area > and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but > get to practice cane travel as well. > > And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this > University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't > pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one > store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the > restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about > this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice > travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. > > Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live > and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate > them with ease? > > Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want > to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University > town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to > the mall instead. > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Oct 12 21:23:09 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:23:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions References: Message-ID: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> Kerri, Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks and built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since you say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a little different here. But I say independence means going where you want to go and when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for assistant when needed. Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really want to go to this town center? I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near the driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer most bus companies have a bus transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to ask what bus it is and where its going when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from point A to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind and ask about the deviated route if you wanted. Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although if they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where you live. I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours is. But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and repeat it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood it. Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get this info: 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B westbound. Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell me. Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my end stop? 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you and describe major landmarks. Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when to get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. So print out the map and go over it with someone. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > Hi All: > > I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope > these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one > post. > > First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the > bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having > is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving > students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live > downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do > not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the > bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus > depots. > > When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the > bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first > street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My > apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't > know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On > top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this > complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. > > Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives > in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before > tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they > will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you > up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere > simple. > > However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling > them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first > time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with > disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? > > Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest > Village > Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the > Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to > take, and what times the lines run? > > I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to > apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking > general questions and see where I get from there. > > Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there > anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has > taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but > I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so > is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain > items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here > and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get > out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. > HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or > announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to > do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let > me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. > > Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out > in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a > description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or > location of each stop. > > Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and > Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to > deviate for construction or something like that. > > > > My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that > I wanted to get your opinions on. > > We have an area with > sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town > Center. I initially was under > the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. > So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my > first bus trip. > > However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian > friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long > hill > and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane > highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some > research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they > are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could > have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another > such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been > told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This > shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, > Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe > store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis > Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden > Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. > > Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off > at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one > place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get > groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie > at the movie theater. > > There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done > but they wouldn't be as efficient. > > Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider > pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. > > Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area > and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe > have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this > area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no > point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd > be too much work/reconstruction. > > Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my > griping or does action need to be taken? > > Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a > movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I > could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but > for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area > and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but > get to practice cane travel as well. > > And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this > University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't > pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one > store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the > restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about > this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice > travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. > > Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live > and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate > them with ease? > > Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want > to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University > town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to > the mall instead. > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 00:26:38 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 20:26:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions In-Reply-To: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them and explain the situation and where I live. Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to connect. I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the stop is? Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so ever. Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops as needed. Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to understand...it's my state president and her significant other and they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route out for now. I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've read about it. Thanks. Kerri On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Kerri, > Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and > safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks and > built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since you > say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a little > different here. But I say independence means going where you want to go and > when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for > assistant when needed. > Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really want > to go to this town center? > > I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally > though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near the > driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer most > bus companies have a bus > transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to ask > what bus it is and where its going > when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! > > As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not > recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from point A > to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind and > ask about the deviated route if you wanted. > Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although if > they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably > figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where you > live. > I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours is. > But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and repeat > it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood it. > Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get this > info: > 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B > westbound. > Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. > 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. > 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell me. > Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my end > stop? > 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? > > Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you and > describe major landmarks. > Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when to > get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. > So print out the map and go over it with someone. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > > >> Hi All: >> >> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >> post. >> >> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having >> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >> depots. >> >> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My >> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >> >> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere >> simple. >> >> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >> >> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >> Village >> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >> take, and what times the lines run? >> >> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to >> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >> general questions and see where I get from there. >> >> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so >> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain >> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here >> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to >> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let >> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >> >> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out >> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or >> location of each stop. >> >> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >> deviate for construction or something like that. >> >> >> >> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >> I wanted to get your opinions on. >> >> We have an area with >> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town >> Center. I initially was under >> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >> first bus trip. >> >> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >> hill >> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they >> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could >> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been >> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >> >> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off >> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie >> at the movie theater. >> >> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done >> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >> >> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >> >> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd >> be too much work/reconstruction. >> >> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >> griping or does action need to be taken? >> >> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I >> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area >> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >> get to practice cane travel as well. >> >> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this >> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >> >> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live >> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >> them with ease? >> >> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want >> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to >> the mall instead. >> >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Oct 13 01:10:59 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:10:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions In-Reply-To: References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> Message-ID: <50AB1E94024641AD802113648BD8E782@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hi, First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and can communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply because you are not familiar with the routes. Remember, you may not always be leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown somewhere. In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and not need to worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many bus stops; people just flag the bus down in most spots. And, the nice thing about the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain time, and it is easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I need to be there waiting. Just FYI, you always want to be there about ten minutes before the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not miss it by accident. Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the bus, or is your goal specificly to travel on the bus from your home? Another option might be for you to cab (if available) to the mall and then take the bus home or, if possible, to another location that is easy to arrive to. I don't mean to do this on a regular basis; I just mean for a first try. Maybe, someone sighted could meet you, such as your mother, when you get off the bus, but you could insist that you walk home without holding her arm so you can learn the route, or you could just have someone walk with you to and from the bus pickup/drop off spot near your home to familiarize you with it before you take the bus at all. Again, I would explore on my own, but if you are not an experienced traveler, it is okay to bring along company. Just make sure the company is someone who will let you walk on your own and that the person is not too overhelpful or too afraid you will hurt yourself. Just another thought. I agree with Ashley that is none of their business where you live; perhaps, it would be a better idea for you to ask someone or for you to use Google maps to learn the names of the street in your area. For example, google directions from your house to a place you know is close by. You will hear google say something like head west toward Bell Street or whatever, and then you would know the name of the cross street. Or, if you already know the name of the highway with the red light, you could reference that with the bus. The bus people speak over radios that can be heard by many people, and it is probably not a good idea to have your address broadcast over the system just for safety reasons even though you do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to scare you; I am just pointing out that you might want to avoid using your address. In fact, my bus system does not want your address, and I think there is a law or maybe company policy that you cannot give them specific directions like that. Also, do you use the bus for people with disabilities in your area? You do have to schedule this, but if you are not used to taking buses, this might be a first good step as it will take you from door to door and you can familiarize yourself with the environments, such as the layout of the mall, before you figure out how to city bus to it. Just an idea. I am certainly not trying to tell you not to take the bus. But again, asking a buddy to come along for your first time is okay to do. BTW, transfering is not a big deal. You just ask for a transfer slip when you get on the bus and give it to the next bus driver. If you transfer at a central location where all buses come together, you can ask the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as the green line, is in front of you or even if it has arrived yet. Also, you can ask the driver to radio the driver for the bus to which you are transfering to tell them you are there, but still be certain to ask nearby people which color line of the bus is coming up as I do this all of the time, and it is beneficial. I would call the bus company instead of facebooking them alone. It is okay to facebook or send them a message, but you will still probably need to call to clarify information with them. Of course, you will know this for certain when you do the calling. I am thinking if you call, that this is really your first big step because you have made human contact with them. You may have done this in the past, but now you are nervous, and calling them now will mean you can succeed at one step--finding out the bus route. If you have a scanner, you can probably scan this bus route in, and if you are a student at the college you mention, it probably has a scanner in its disability office that you may be able to use. To hire a reader, put up an ad at the college. This is if you need a reader for a steady amount of time each month, such as ten hours. You wouldn't want to do that for just a one-time occurrence. Just some tips. Sorry if I am so talkative. I'm in school, and I'm too tired to do much editing and deleting extra information at this point. Smile. Again, good luck and have fun. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: > > First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this > stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I > want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is > inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them > and explain the situation and where I live. > > Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the > students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not > live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to > transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just > take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to > connect. > > I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first > trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I > may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. > > Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them > know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the > stop is? > > Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are > colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the > purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so > ever. > > Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since > I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions > better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I > can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops > as needed. > > Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to > understand...it's my state president and her significant other and > they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? > > I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the > schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where > else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the > typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if > asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. > > Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to > the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route > out for now. > > I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've > read about it. > > Thanks. > Kerri > > On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kerri, >> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and >> safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks >> and >> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since >> you >> say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a >> little >> different here. But I say independence means going where you want to go >> and >> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for >> assistant when needed. >> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really >> want >> to go to this town center? >> >> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally >> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near >> the >> driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer >> most >> bus companies have a bus >> transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to ask >> what bus it is and where its going >> when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! >> >> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not >> recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from >> point A >> to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind and >> ask about the deviated route if you wanted. >> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although >> if >> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably >> figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where >> you >> live. >> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours >> is. >> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and >> repeat >> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood it. >> Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get >> this >> info: >> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B >> westbound. >> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. >> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. >> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell >> me. >> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my >> end >> stop? >> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? >> >> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you >> and >> describe major landmarks. >> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when to >> get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. >> So print out the map and go over it with someone. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >> >> >>> Hi All: >>> >>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >>> post. >>> >>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having >>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >>> depots. >>> >>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My >>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >>> >>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere >>> simple. >>> >>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >>> >>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >>> Village >>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >>> take, and what times the lines run? >>> >>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to >>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >>> general questions and see where I get from there. >>> >>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so >>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain >>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here >>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to >>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let >>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >>> >>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out >>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or >>> location of each stop. >>> >>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >>> deviate for construction or something like that. >>> >>> >>> >>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >>> I wanted to get your opinions on. >>> >>> We have an area with >>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town >>> Center. I initially was under >>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >>> first bus trip. >>> >>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >>> hill >>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they >>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could >>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been >>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >>> >>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off >>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie >>> at the movie theater. >>> >>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done >>> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >>> >>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >>> >>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd >>> be too much work/reconstruction. >>> >>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >>> griping or does action need to be taken? >>> >>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I >>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area >>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >>> get to practice cane travel as well. >>> >>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this >>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >>> >>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live >>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >>> them with ease? >>> >>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want >>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to >>> the mall instead. >>> >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Oct 13 02:02:31 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:02:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> <50AB1E94024641AD802113648BD8E782@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: <1EBD46B8FFE04F53AF3A6064BA2154D7@Ashley> Hi Anita, Good suggestions. A few questions. I haven't used Google Maps. By its nature it has a map with it; so how do you get to the site and does it give user friendly pedestrian directions? Will it give directions in terms of blocks or for cars, the miles? Yes arriving ten minutes early is a good idea. I'd say call them over sending a facebook message; you'll get more out of a conversation. Its a shame you don't have a good mobility instructor Kerri. I learned about the bus system, how to call them, what questions to ask, addresses, and landmarks from the O&M instructor I had. You need to give the bus rep some info. An address is fine I believe but they don't need to know its the apartment. Another idea is to get the street your complex is on and ask this way. "Sally, what bus runs on Elm street?" While on the bus its true they have radios but I thought they're off while talking to customers. Whether its an address or something else you need to give them the stop you want to get off. This is probably done by intersections. But each bus system is different. So say "Driver, I need to get off at 4th and Clark street." Some stops are at landmarks or right at malls. In that case state that. "Driver I need to depart at the Crabtree mall." Often buses run in thirty minute intervals or on the hour. If you'll use a bus frequently get to know its schedule. If you live in a city you might be lucky and buses may run more like every 20 minutes! Kerri some systems such as the DC metro system have an automated phone system. You might check if yours has this; probably not but its worth asking. This phone system allows you to state your bus number. Then the computer system checks and says when the next bus is coming. It also says if there's any bus disruptions on a different menu. I also thought of something; if you have lots of questions including basic info, it may be worth setting up an appointment with a bus company representative to ask these questions. You don't want to tie up the phone line a long time on their end but you also want to get this information. If you show interest in their system, they may be happy to be accomodating. Accomodations are making the website accessible, announcing stops, providing basic info in accessible formats and providing accessible fair machines. The metro system here has information in braille and large print plus many phone features anyone can use including those with disabilities as long as you can speak clearly. Some companies just are not aware of blind customers and their needs. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Adkins" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > Hi, > > First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the > place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and can > communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply because > you are not familiar with the routes. Remember, you may not always be > leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown somewhere. > In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and not need to > worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many bus stops; > people just flag the bus down in most spots. And, the nice thing about > the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain time, and it is > easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I need to be there > waiting. Just FYI, you always want to be there about ten minutes before > the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not miss it by accident. > Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the bus, or is your goal > specificly to travel on the bus from your home? Another option might be > for you to cab (if available) to the mall and then take the bus home or, > if possible, to another location that is easy to arrive to. I don't mean > to do this on a regular basis; I just mean for a first try. Maybe, > someone sighted could meet you, such as your mother, when you get off the > bus, but you could insist that you walk home without holding her arm so > you can learn the route, or you could just have someone walk with you to > and from the bus pickup/drop off spot near your home to familiarize you > with it before you take the bus at all. Again, I would explore on my own, > but if you are not an experienced traveler, it is okay to bring along > company. Just make sure the company is someone who will let you walk on > your own and that the person is not too overhelpful or too afraid you will > hurt yourself. Just another thought. I agree with Ashley that is none of > their business where you live; perhaps, it would be a better idea for you > to ask someone or for you to use Google maps to learn the names of the > street in your area. For example, google directions from your house to a > place you know is close by. You will hear google say something like head > west toward Bell Street or whatever, and then you would know the name of > the cross street. Or, if you already know the name of the highway with > the red light, you could reference that with the bus. The bus people > speak over radios that can be heard by many people, and it is probably not > a good idea to have your address broadcast over the system just for safety > reasons even though you do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to > scare you; I am just pointing out that you might want to avoid using your > address. In fact, my bus system does not want your address, and I think > there is a law or maybe company policy that you cannot give them specific > directions like that. Also, do you use the bus for people with > disabilities in your area? You do have to schedule this, but if you are > not used to taking buses, this might be a first good step as it will take > you from door to door and you can familiarize yourself with the > environments, such as the layout of the mall, before you figure out how to > city bus to it. Just an idea. I am certainly not trying to tell you not > to take the bus. But again, asking a buddy to come along for your first > time is okay to do. BTW, transfering is not a big deal. You just ask for > a transfer slip when you get on the bus and give it to the next bus > driver. If you transfer at a central location where all buses come > together, you can ask the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as > the green line, is in front of you or even if it has arrived yet. Also, > you can ask the driver to radio the driver for the bus to which you are > transfering to tell them you are there, but still be certain to ask nearby > people which color line of the bus is coming up as I do this all of the > time, and it is beneficial. I would call the bus company instead of > facebooking them alone. It is okay to facebook or send them a message, > but you will still probably need to call to clarify information with them. > Of course, you will know this for certain when you do the calling. I am > thinking if you call, that this is really your first big step because you > have made human contact with them. You may have done this in the past, > but now you are nervous, and calling them now will mean you can succeed at > one step--finding out the bus route. If you have a scanner, you can > probably scan this bus route in, and if you are a student at the college > you mention, it probably has a scanner in its disability office that you > may be able to use. To hire a reader, put up an ad at the college. This > is if you need a reader for a steady amount of time each month, such as > ten hours. You wouldn't want to do that for just a one-time occurrence. > Just some tips. Sorry if I am so talkative. I'm in school, and I'm too > tired to do much editing and deleting extra information at this point. > Smile. Again, good luck and have fun. Anita > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > > >> Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: >> >> First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this >> stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I >> want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is >> inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them >> and explain the situation and where I live. >> >> Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the >> students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not >> live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to >> transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just >> take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to >> connect. >> >> I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first >> trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I >> may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. >> >> Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them >> know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the >> stop is? >> >> Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are >> colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the >> purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so >> ever. >> >> Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since >> I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions >> better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I >> can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops >> as needed. >> >> Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to >> understand...it's my state president and her significant other and >> they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? >> >> I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the >> schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where >> else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the >> typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if >> asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. >> >> Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to >> the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route >> out for now. >> >> I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've >> read about it. >> >> Thanks. >> Kerri >> >> On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Kerri, >>> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and >>> safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks >>> and >>> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since >>> you >>> say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a >>> little >>> different here. But I say independence means going where you want to go >>> and >>> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for >>> assistant when needed. >>> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really >>> want >>> to go to this town center? >>> >>> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally >>> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near >>> the >>> driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer >>> most >>> bus companies have a bus >>> transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to >>> ask >>> what bus it is and where its going >>> when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! >>> >>> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not >>> recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from >>> point A >>> to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind >>> and >>> ask about the deviated route if you wanted. >>> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although >>> if >>> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably >>> figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where >>> you >>> live. >>> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours >>> is. >>> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and >>> repeat >>> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood >>> it. >>> Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get >>> this >>> info: >>> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B >>> westbound. >>> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. >>> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. >>> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell >>> me. >>> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my >>> end >>> stop? >>> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? >>> >>> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you >>> and >>> describe major landmarks. >>> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when >>> to >>> get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. >>> So print out the map and go over it with someone. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >>> >>> >>>> Hi All: >>>> >>>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >>>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >>>> post. >>>> >>>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >>>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having >>>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >>>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >>>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >>>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >>>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >>>> depots. >>>> >>>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >>>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >>>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My >>>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >>>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >>>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >>>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >>>> >>>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >>>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >>>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >>>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >>>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere >>>> simple. >>>> >>>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >>>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >>>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >>>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >>>> >>>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >>>> Village >>>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >>>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >>>> take, and what times the lines run? >>>> >>>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to >>>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >>>> general questions and see where I get from there. >>>> >>>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >>>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >>>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >>>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so >>>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain >>>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here >>>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >>>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >>>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >>>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to >>>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let >>>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >>>> >>>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out >>>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >>>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or >>>> location of each stop. >>>> >>>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >>>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >>>> deviate for construction or something like that. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >>>> I wanted to get your opinions on. >>>> >>>> We have an area with >>>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town >>>> Center. I initially was under >>>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >>>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >>>> first bus trip. >>>> >>>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >>>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >>>> hill >>>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >>>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >>>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they >>>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could >>>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >>>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been >>>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >>>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >>>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >>>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >>>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >>>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >>>> >>>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off >>>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >>>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >>>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie >>>> at the movie theater. >>>> >>>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done >>>> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >>>> >>>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >>>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >>>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >>>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >>>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >>>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd >>>> be too much work/reconstruction. >>>> >>>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >>>> griping or does action need to be taken? >>>> >>>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >>>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I >>>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >>>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area >>>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >>>> get to practice cane travel as well. >>>> >>>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this >>>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >>>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >>>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >>>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >>>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >>>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >>>> >>>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live >>>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >>>> them with ease? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want >>>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >>>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to >>>> the mall instead. >>>> >>>> Kerri >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 05:00:01 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:00:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions In-Reply-To: <1EBD46B8FFE04F53AF3A6064BA2154D7@Ashley> References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> <50AB1E94024641AD802113648BD8E782@AnitaAdkinsPC> <1EBD46B8FFE04F53AF3A6064BA2154D7@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi Kerri, First of all, I wouldn't give up on your bus system's website quite yet. Many bus systems have inaccessible route maps on their websites, but they also have schedules in table form, or "trip planner" features where you can type in your location and destination and it'll tell you how to get there. At the very least, the map for the route you want to use should probably have a table listing what time the bus gets to each stop. You can navigate tables using the JAWS command "Control-alt-arrow" (i.e. control-alt-right arrow to move right, control-alt-up arrow to go up, etc.) if you use JAWS. I used to think the schedule tables for Denver RTD were totally inaccessible until a friend taught me about that. So, it's worth exploring a bit more. Second, if you go to maps.google.com and click the "Get Directions" link, you can type in your origin address and destination address and check "public transit" as the type of directions you want (it's a combobox you'll see after you enter your destination address). I'm not sure if the public transit feature works everywhere, but it's worth a try and the bus directions it gives are usually pretty accurate. To find out the address of the place you're going, simply type the name of the place (i.e. "University Town Center" and your city name into Google and an address should pop up. Third, if these methods don't give you a clear idea of where to get on the bus near your house, I'd suggest calling and simply asking, "Where is the bus stop by [cross-streets for your apartment complex]? It sounds like you did this already and were told the stop was by the light for the highway. You can then ask "On which side of the highway is it?" or "Which direction do I need to go to get to [destination]? This will give you an idea of whether or not you'll have to cross the highway. It might be worth taking a friend with you the first time to be sure you find the pole or bench that denotes the bus stop-either a sighted or blind friend as long as they know where the actual stop is. Alternatively, you can simply walk up and down the block where the stop is supposed to be, use a wide arc and look for a pole or bench. If it turns out you need to cross the highway to get there, you may want to practice crossing a few times with said person (or an O&M instructor if you have one) so you can get used to the traffic pattern and identify the appropriate sound cue indicating it's safe to cross. I think big highways are often a lot scarier to sighted people who can see all the cars than they really need to be in terms of safety. In other words, while busier streets are more intimidating, they can also be easier to cross safely because they will provide a lot of reliable auditory feedback. It may be the case at this light, for instance, that it is safe to cross when you hear all traffic stop-which, with a highway, should be pretty obvious after a couple of practice tries. As for bus depots, they can also be a little intimidating, but there are usually lots of people around to ask "where is the stop for the [bus number]? You can also ask the driver on your first bus to direct you to the stop for the second, or if they all pull up to the same curb, just approach the front of each bus as it pulls up and ask what line it is. I usually avoid bus depots late at night for the safety reasons you describe, but during the day when there are lots of people around and buses coming and going, this shouldn't be a big concern. It sounds like your metroplex is large, but definitely navigable by pedestrians. For a blind pedestrian it can be a little tricky, but not impossible. You may have to ask a few different people for directions in order to find the place you're looking for, but it's definitely possible if you have the time and especially if you want to get the travel practice. You should definitely find out the names of the major streets bordering the metroplex and the addresses of the places you want to go (i.e. Starbucks, Olive Garden, etc.) so you have a general idea of where the places are located relative to one another, and then just ask questions. Happy traveling! Arielle On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Anita, > Good suggestions. A few questions. > I haven't used Google Maps. By its nature it has a map with it; so how do > you get to the site and does it give user friendly pedestrian directions? > Will it give directions in terms of blocks or for cars, the miles? > > Yes arriving ten minutes early is a good idea. > I'd say call them over sending a facebook message; you'll get more out of a > conversation. Its a shame you don't have a good mobility instructor Kerri. > I learned about the bus system, how to call them, what questions to ask, > addresses, and landmarks from the O&M instructor I had. > > You need to give the bus rep some info. An address is fine I believe but > they don't need to know its the apartment. > Another idea is to get the street your complex is on and ask this way. > "Sally, what bus runs on Elm street?" > While on the bus its true they have radios but I thought they're off while > talking to customers. > Whether its an address or something else you need to give them the stop you > want to get off. This is probably done by intersections. But each bus > system is different. > So say "Driver, I need to get off at 4th and Clark street." Some stops are > at landmarks or right at malls. In that case state that. "Driver I need to > depart at the Crabtree mall." > Often buses run in thirty minute intervals or on the hour. If you'll use a > bus frequently get to know its schedule. > If you live in a city you might be lucky and buses may run more like every > 20 minutes! > > Kerri some systems such as the DC metro system have an automated phone > system. You might check if yours has this; probably not but its worth > asking. > This phone system allows you to state your bus number. Then the computer > system checks and says when the next bus is coming. It also says if there's > any bus disruptions on a different menu. > > I also thought of something; if you have lots of questions including basic > info, it may be worth setting up an appointment with a bus company > representative to ask these questions. You don't want to tie up the phone > line a long time on their end but you also want to get this information. If > you show interest in their system, they may be happy to be accomodating. > Accomodations are making the website accessible, announcing stops, providing > basic info in accessible formats and providing accessible fair machines. > The metro system here has information in braille and large print plus many > phone features anyone can use including those with disabilities as long as > you can speak clearly. > Some companies just are not aware of blind customers and their needs. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anita Adkins" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > > >> Hi, >> >> First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the >> place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and can >> >> communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply because >> you are not familiar with the routes. Remember, you may not always be >> leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown somewhere. >> In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and not need to >> worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many bus stops; >> people just flag the bus down in most spots. And, the nice thing about >> the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain time, and it is >> easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I need to be there >> waiting. Just FYI, you always want to be there about ten minutes before >> the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not miss it by accident. >> Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the bus, or is your goal >> specificly to travel on the bus from your home? Another option might be >> for you to cab (if available) to the mall and then take the bus home or, >> if possible, to another location that is easy to arrive to. I don't mean >> to do this on a regular basis; I just mean for a first try. Maybe, >> someone sighted could meet you, such as your mother, when you get off the >> bus, but you could insist that you walk home without holding her arm so >> you can learn the route, or you could just have someone walk with you to >> and from the bus pickup/drop off spot near your home to familiarize you >> with it before you take the bus at all. Again, I would explore on my own, >> >> but if you are not an experienced traveler, it is okay to bring along >> company. Just make sure the company is someone who will let you walk on >> your own and that the person is not too overhelpful or too afraid you will >> >> hurt yourself. Just another thought. I agree with Ashley that is none of >> >> their business where you live; perhaps, it would be a better idea for you >> to ask someone or for you to use Google maps to learn the names of the >> street in your area. For example, google directions from your house to a >> place you know is close by. You will hear google say something like head >> west toward Bell Street or whatever, and then you would know the name of >> the cross street. Or, if you already know the name of the highway with >> the red light, you could reference that with the bus. The bus people >> speak over radios that can be heard by many people, and it is probably not >> >> a good idea to have your address broadcast over the system just for safety >> >> reasons even though you do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to >> scare you; I am just pointing out that you might want to avoid using your >> address. In fact, my bus system does not want your address, and I think >> there is a law or maybe company policy that you cannot give them specific >> directions like that. Also, do you use the bus for people with >> disabilities in your area? You do have to schedule this, but if you are >> not used to taking buses, this might be a first good step as it will take >> you from door to door and you can familiarize yourself with the >> environments, such as the layout of the mall, before you figure out how to >> >> city bus to it. Just an idea. I am certainly not trying to tell you not >> to take the bus. But again, asking a buddy to come along for your first >> time is okay to do. BTW, transfering is not a big deal. You just ask for >> >> a transfer slip when you get on the bus and give it to the next bus >> driver. If you transfer at a central location where all buses come >> together, you can ask the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as >> the green line, is in front of you or even if it has arrived yet. Also, >> you can ask the driver to radio the driver for the bus to which you are >> transfering to tell them you are there, but still be certain to ask nearby >> >> people which color line of the bus is coming up as I do this all of the >> time, and it is beneficial. I would call the bus company instead of >> facebooking them alone. It is okay to facebook or send them a message, >> but you will still probably need to call to clarify information with them. >> >> Of course, you will know this for certain when you do the calling. I am >> thinking if you call, that this is really your first big step because you >> have made human contact with them. You may have done this in the past, >> but now you are nervous, and calling them now will mean you can succeed at >> >> one step--finding out the bus route. If you have a scanner, you can >> probably scan this bus route in, and if you are a student at the college >> you mention, it probably has a scanner in its disability office that you >> may be able to use. To hire a reader, put up an ad at the college. This >> is if you need a reader for a steady amount of time each month, such as >> ten hours. You wouldn't want to do that for just a one-time occurrence. >> Just some tips. Sorry if I am so talkative. I'm in school, and I'm too >> tired to do much editing and deleting extra information at this point. >> Smile. Again, good luck and have fun. Anita >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >> >> >>> Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: >>> >>> First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this >>> stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I >>> want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is >>> inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them >>> and explain the situation and where I live. >>> >>> Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the >>> students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not >>> live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to >>> transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just >>> take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to >>> connect. >>> >>> I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first >>> trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I >>> may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. >>> >>> Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them >>> know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the >>> stop is? >>> >>> Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are >>> colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the >>> purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so >>> ever. >>> >>> Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since >>> I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions >>> better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I >>> can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops >>> as needed. >>> >>> Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to >>> understand...it's my state president and her significant other and >>> they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? >>> >>> I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the >>> schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where >>> else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the >>> typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if >>> asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. >>> >>> Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to >>> the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route >>> out for now. >>> >>> I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've >>> read about it. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kerri, >>>> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and >>>> safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks >>>> >>>> and >>>> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since >>>> you >>>> say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a >>>> little >>>> different here. But I say independence means going where you want to go >>>> >>>> and >>>> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for >>>> assistant when needed. >>>> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really >>>> want >>>> to go to this town center? >>>> >>>> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally >>>> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near >>>> the >>>> driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer >>>> most >>>> bus companies have a bus >>>> transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to >>>> ask >>>> what bus it is and where its going >>>> when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! >>>> >>>> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not >>>> recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from >>>> point A >>>> to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind >>>> and >>>> ask about the deviated route if you wanted. >>>> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although >>>> >>>> if >>>> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably >>>> figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where >>>> you >>>> live. >>>> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours >>>> >>>> is. >>>> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and >>>> repeat >>>> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood >>>> it. >>>> Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get >>>> this >>>> info: >>>> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B >>>> westbound. >>>> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. >>>> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. >>>> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell >>>> me. >>>> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my >>>> end >>>> stop? >>>> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? >>>> >>>> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you >>>> and >>>> describe major landmarks. >>>> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when >>>> to >>>> get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. >>>> So print out the map and go over it with someone. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi All: >>>>> >>>>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >>>>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >>>>> post. >>>>> >>>>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >>>>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having >>>>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >>>>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >>>>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >>>>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >>>>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >>>>> depots. >>>>> >>>>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >>>>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >>>>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My >>>>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >>>>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >>>>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >>>>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >>>>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >>>>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >>>>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >>>>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere >>>>> simple. >>>>> >>>>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >>>>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >>>>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >>>>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >>>>> >>>>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >>>>> Village >>>>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >>>>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >>>>> take, and what times the lines run? >>>>> >>>>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to >>>>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >>>>> general questions and see where I get from there. >>>>> >>>>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >>>>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >>>>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >>>>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so >>>>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain >>>>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here >>>>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >>>>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >>>>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >>>>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to >>>>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let >>>>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out >>>>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >>>>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or >>>>> location of each stop. >>>>> >>>>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >>>>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >>>>> deviate for construction or something like that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >>>>> I wanted to get your opinions on. >>>>> >>>>> We have an area with >>>>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town >>>>> Center. I initially was under >>>>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >>>>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >>>>> first bus trip. >>>>> >>>>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >>>>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >>>>> hill >>>>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >>>>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >>>>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they >>>>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could >>>>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >>>>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been >>>>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >>>>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >>>>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >>>>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >>>>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >>>>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off >>>>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >>>>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >>>>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie >>>>> at the movie theater. >>>>> >>>>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done >>>>> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >>>>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >>>>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >>>>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >>>>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >>>>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd >>>>> be too much work/reconstruction. >>>>> >>>>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >>>>> griping or does action need to be taken? >>>>> >>>>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >>>>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I >>>>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >>>>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area >>>>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >>>>> get to practice cane travel as well. >>>>> >>>>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this >>>>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >>>>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >>>>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >>>>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >>>>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >>>>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live >>>>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >>>>> them with ease? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want >>>>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >>>>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to >>>>> the mall instead. >>>>> >>>>> Kerri >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Oct 13 12:03:12 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:03:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions In-Reply-To: <1EBD46B8FFE04F53AF3A6064BA2154D7@Ashley> References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> <50AB1E94024641AD802113648BD8E782@AnitaAdkinsPC> <1EBD46B8FFE04F53AF3A6064BA2154D7@Ashley> Message-ID: <88FF5C27E93F4817966CC2EBDCC59863@AnitaAdkinsPC> First, get to it by typing in www.google.com if it is not your homepage. You might be able to add a forward slash followed by the word maps, but haven't tried this yet because Google happens to be my prefered home page. On this page, there is a link that says maps, which you will press enter on. When the page loads, it will have an edit box, and you will type your start destination followed by your end destination like this: Valley View Apartments, Frostburg, MD to Country Club Mall, Lavale, MD Use the commas as I have them, but of course, use your own locations. You could also type a street number such as 93 West Boxing Lane, (I made that up). You would put a comma after the street name also. It is very usable. In fact, I used to learn how to navigate the town I am in independently without the assistance of an O&M instructor. I also used other tools to help me with this. For example, I babysat 40 hours per week in Cumberland, and so I had to take the bus to and from that job and also a cab from the college over there to here late at night because my area is not big and buses do not run late at night. While in whichever type of transportation, I asked the driver to tell me the cross streets as we came to them, and I wrote them down. I moved here because I was transfering to the college here in town, and I also used Google to help me learn how to get to the campus of this school, and I also asked people that I knew about the area and the bus and cab drivers. But, back to Google Maps. You can have it provide walking direcetions, bicycling directions, driving directions and probably more. I believe it is automatically set for driving directions. To test it, you can do like I did and ask it how to go somewhere you already know how to get to because you will be able to determine its accuracy. Also, I will ask it for driving and then for walking sometimes if I am learning a new place because if walking has you head and driving has you head east, I can learn the cross streets on either side of me like that. Gotta run for school, and so sorry can't go into this further now. But, anyone can feel free to ask more questions, and please ignore my mistakes throughout this email. Thanks. Sorry, just looked, it gives miles. This is why I build on my knowledge by first determining at least the name of one place on each block because then I could learn the connecting streets. I wish it did tell you blocks and the names in between. It is in beta, and so maybe this could be suggested by someone. However, I have learned that a block in my type of a city is about 1/10 of a mile, and so you may be able to figure it out for your city. In small cities, blocks are shorter than in big cities, or so it seems to me. Gotta rush out of here. Have a great day. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > Hi Anita, > Good suggestions. A few questions. > I haven't used Google Maps. By its nature it has a map with it; so how do > you get to the site and does it give user friendly pedestrian directions? > Will it give directions in terms of blocks or for cars, the miles? > > Yes arriving ten minutes early is a good idea. > I'd say call them over sending a facebook message; you'll get more out of > a conversation. Its a shame you don't have a good mobility instructor > Kerri. I learned about the bus system, how to call them, what questions to > ask, addresses, and landmarks from the O&M instructor I had. > > You need to give the bus rep some info. An address is fine I believe but > they don't need to know its the apartment. > Another idea is to get the street your complex is on and ask this way. > "Sally, what bus runs on Elm street?" > While on the bus its true they have radios but I thought they're off while > talking to customers. > Whether its an address or something else you need to give them the stop > you want to get off. This is probably done by intersections. But each > bus system is different. > So say "Driver, I need to get off at 4th and Clark street." Some stops > are at landmarks or right at malls. In that case state that. "Driver I > need to depart at the Crabtree mall." > Often buses run in thirty minute intervals or on the hour. If you'll use > a bus frequently get to know its schedule. > If you live in a city you might be lucky and buses may run more like every > 20 minutes! > > Kerri some systems such as the DC metro system have an automated phone > system. You might check if yours has this; probably not but its worth > asking. > This phone system allows you to state your bus number. Then the computer > system checks and says when the next bus is coming. It also says if > there's any bus disruptions on a different menu. > > I also thought of something; if you have lots of questions including basic > info, it may be worth setting up an appointment with a bus company > representative to ask these questions. You don't want to tie up the phone > line a long time on their end but you also want to get this information. > If you show interest in their system, they may be happy to be > accomodating. Accomodations are making the website accessible, announcing > stops, providing basic info in accessible formats and providing accessible > fair machines. > The metro system here has information in braille and large print plus many > phone features anyone can use including those with disabilities as long as > you can speak clearly. > Some companies just are not aware of blind customers and their needs. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anita Adkins" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > > >> Hi, >> >> First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the >> place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and >> can communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply >> because you are not familiar with the routes. Remember, you may not >> always be leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown >> somewhere. In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and >> not need to worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many >> bus stops; people just flag the bus down in most spots. And, the nice >> thing about the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain >> time, and it is easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I need >> to be there waiting. Just FYI, you always want to be there about ten >> minutes before the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not miss >> it by accident. Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the bus, >> or is your goal specificly to travel on the bus from your home? Another >> option might be for you to cab (if available) to the mall and then take >> the bus home or, if possible, to another location that is easy to arrive >> to. I don't mean to do this on a regular basis; I just mean for a first >> try. Maybe, someone sighted could meet you, such as your mother, when >> you get off the bus, but you could insist that you walk home without >> holding her arm so you can learn the route, or you could just have >> someone walk with you to and from the bus pickup/drop off spot near your >> home to familiarize you with it before you take the bus at all. Again, I >> would explore on my own, but if you are not an experienced traveler, it >> is okay to bring along company. Just make sure the company is someone >> who will let you walk on your own and that the person is not too >> overhelpful or too afraid you will hurt yourself. Just another thought. >> I agree with Ashley that is none of their business where you live; >> perhaps, it would be a better idea for you to ask someone or for you to >> use Google maps to learn the names of the street in your area. For >> example, google directions from your house to a place you know is close >> by. You will hear google say something like head west toward Bell Street >> or whatever, and then you would know the name of the cross street. Or, >> if you already know the name of the highway with the red light, you could >> reference that with the bus. The bus people speak over radios that can >> be heard by many people, and it is probably not a good idea to have your >> address broadcast over the system just for safety reasons even though you >> do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to scare you; I am just >> pointing out that you might want to avoid using your address. In fact, >> my bus system does not want your address, and I think there is a law or >> maybe company policy that you cannot give them specific directions like >> that. Also, do you use the bus for people with disabilities in your >> area? You do have to schedule this, but if you are not used to taking >> buses, this might be a first good step as it will take you from door to >> door and you can familiarize yourself with the environments, such as the >> layout of the mall, before you figure out how to city bus to it. Just an >> idea. I am certainly not trying to tell you not to take the bus. But >> again, asking a buddy to come along for your first time is okay to do. >> BTW, transfering is not a big deal. You just ask for a transfer slip >> when you get on the bus and give it to the next bus driver. If you >> transfer at a central location where all buses come together, you can ask >> the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as the green line, is in >> front of you or even if it has arrived yet. Also, you can ask the driver >> to radio the driver for the bus to which you are transfering to tell them >> you are there, but still be certain to ask nearby people which color line >> of the bus is coming up as I do this all of the time, and it is >> beneficial. I would call the bus company instead of facebooking them >> alone. It is okay to facebook or send them a message, but you will still >> probably need to call to clarify information with them. Of course, you >> will know this for certain when you do the calling. I am thinking if you >> call, that this is really your first big step because you have made human >> contact with them. You may have done this in the past, but now you are >> nervous, and calling them now will mean you can succeed at one >> step--finding out the bus route. If you have a scanner, you can probably >> scan this bus route in, and if you are a student at the college you >> mention, it probably has a scanner in its disability office that you may >> be able to use. To hire a reader, put up an ad at the college. This is >> if you need a reader for a steady amount of time each month, such as ten >> hours. You wouldn't want to do that for just a one-time occurrence. Just >> some tips. Sorry if I am so talkative. I'm in school, and I'm too tired >> to do much editing and deleting extra information at this point. Smile. >> Again, good luck and have fun. Anita >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >> >> >>> Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: >>> >>> First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this >>> stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I >>> want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is >>> inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them >>> and explain the situation and where I live. >>> >>> Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the >>> students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not >>> live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to >>> transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just >>> take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to >>> connect. >>> >>> I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first >>> trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I >>> may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. >>> >>> Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them >>> know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the >>> stop is? >>> >>> Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are >>> colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the >>> purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so >>> ever. >>> >>> Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since >>> I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions >>> better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I >>> can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops >>> as needed. >>> >>> Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to >>> understand...it's my state president and her significant other and >>> they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? >>> >>> I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the >>> schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where >>> else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the >>> typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if >>> asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. >>> >>> Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to >>> the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route >>> out for now. >>> >>> I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've >>> read about it. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Kerri, >>>> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and >>>> safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no >>>> sidewalks and >>>> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since >>>> you >>>> say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a >>>> little >>>> different here. But I say independence means going where you want to >>>> go and >>>> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for >>>> assistant when needed. >>>> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really >>>> want >>>> to go to this town center? >>>> >>>> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally >>>> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near >>>> the >>>> driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer >>>> most >>>> bus companies have a bus >>>> transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to >>>> ask >>>> what bus it is and where its going >>>> when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! >>>> >>>> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not >>>> recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from >>>> point A >>>> to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind >>>> and >>>> ask about the deviated route if you wanted. >>>> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live >>>> although if >>>> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably >>>> figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where >>>> you >>>> live. >>>> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like >>>> yours is. >>>> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and >>>> repeat >>>> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood >>>> it. >>>> Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get >>>> this >>>> info: >>>> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B >>>> westbound. >>>> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. >>>> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. >>>> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell >>>> me. >>>> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my >>>> end >>>> stop? >>>> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? >>>> >>>> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you >>>> and >>>> describe major landmarks. >>>> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when >>>> to >>>> get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. >>>> So print out the map and go over it with someone. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi All: >>>>> >>>>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >>>>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >>>>> post. >>>>> >>>>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >>>>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having >>>>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >>>>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >>>>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >>>>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >>>>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >>>>> depots. >>>>> >>>>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >>>>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >>>>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My >>>>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >>>>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >>>>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >>>>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >>>>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >>>>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >>>>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >>>>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere >>>>> simple. >>>>> >>>>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >>>>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >>>>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >>>>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >>>>> >>>>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >>>>> Village >>>>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >>>>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >>>>> take, and what times the lines run? >>>>> >>>>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to >>>>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >>>>> general questions and see where I get from there. >>>>> >>>>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >>>>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >>>>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >>>>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so >>>>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain >>>>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here >>>>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >>>>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >>>>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >>>>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to >>>>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let >>>>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out >>>>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >>>>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or >>>>> location of each stop. >>>>> >>>>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >>>>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >>>>> deviate for construction or something like that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >>>>> I wanted to get your opinions on. >>>>> >>>>> We have an area with >>>>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town >>>>> Center. I initially was under >>>>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >>>>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >>>>> first bus trip. >>>>> >>>>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >>>>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >>>>> hill >>>>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >>>>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >>>>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they >>>>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could >>>>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >>>>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been >>>>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >>>>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >>>>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >>>>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >>>>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >>>>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off >>>>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >>>>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >>>>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie >>>>> at the movie theater. >>>>> >>>>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done >>>>> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >>>>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >>>>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >>>>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >>>>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >>>>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd >>>>> be too much work/reconstruction. >>>>> >>>>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >>>>> griping or does action need to be taken? >>>>> >>>>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >>>>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I >>>>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >>>>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area >>>>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >>>>> get to practice cane travel as well. >>>>> >>>>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this >>>>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >>>>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >>>>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >>>>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >>>>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >>>>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live >>>>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >>>>> them with ease? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want >>>>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >>>>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to >>>>> the mall instead. >>>>> >>>>> Kerri >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 12:09:24 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:09:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley><50AB1E94024641AD802113648BD8E782@AnitaAdkinsPC><1EBD46B8FFE04F53AF3A6064BA2154D7@Ashley> <88FF5C27E93F4817966CC2EBDCC59863@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: Anita: Great advice. I've also found it helpful to ask bus drivers or other passengers about the cross streets and surrounding businesses. It's interesting what you can learn on a bus trip. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Adkins" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > First, get to it by typing in www.google.com if it is not your homepage. > You might be able to add a forward slash followed by the word maps, but > haven't tried this yet because Google happens to be my prefered home page. > On this page, there is a link that says maps, which you will press enter > on. When the page loads, it will have an edit box, and you will type your > start destination followed by your end destination like this: Valley View > Apartments, Frostburg, MD to Country Club Mall, Lavale, MD > Use the commas as I have them, but of course, use your own locations. You > could also type a street number such as 93 West Boxing Lane, (I made that > up). You would put a comma after the street name also. It is very > usable. In fact, I used to learn how to navigate the town I am in > independently without the assistance of an O&M instructor. I also used > other tools to help me with this. For example, I babysat 40 hours per > week in Cumberland, and so I had to take the bus to and from that job and > also a cab from the college over there to here late at night because my > area is not big and buses do not run late at night. While in whichever > type of transportation, I asked the driver to tell me the cross streets as > we came to them, and I wrote them down. I moved here because I was > transfering to the college here in town, and I also used Google to help me > learn how to get to the campus of this school, and I also asked people > that I knew about the area and the bus and cab drivers. But, back to > Google Maps. You can have it provide walking direcetions, bicycling > directions, driving directions and probably more. I believe it is > automatically set for driving directions. To test it, you can do like I > did and ask it how to go somewhere you already know how to get to because > you will be able to determine its accuracy. Also, I will ask it for > driving and then for walking sometimes if I am learning a new place > because if walking has you head and driving has you head east, I can learn > the cross streets on either side of me like that. Gotta run for school, > and so sorry can't go into this further now. But, anyone can feel free to > ask more questions, and please ignore my mistakes throughout this email. > Thanks. Sorry, just looked, it gives miles. This is why I build on my > knowledge by first determining at least the name of one place on each > block because then I could learn the connecting streets. I wish it did > tell you blocks and the names in between. It is in beta, and so maybe > this could be suggested by someone. However, I have learned that a block > in my type of a city is about 1/10 of a mile, and so you may be able to > figure it out for your city. In small cities, blocks are shorter than in > big cities, or so it seems to me. Gotta rush out of here. Have a great > day. Anita > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:02 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > > >> Hi Anita, >> Good suggestions. A few questions. >> I haven't used Google Maps. By its nature it has a map with it; so how >> do you get to the site and does it give user friendly pedestrian >> directions? >> Will it give directions in terms of blocks or for cars, the miles? >> >> Yes arriving ten minutes early is a good idea. >> I'd say call them over sending a facebook message; you'll get more out of >> a conversation. Its a shame you don't have a good mobility instructor >> Kerri. I learned about the bus system, how to call them, what questions >> to ask, addresses, and landmarks from the O&M instructor I had. >> >> You need to give the bus rep some info. An address is fine I believe but >> they don't need to know its the apartment. >> Another idea is to get the street your complex is on and ask this way. >> "Sally, what bus runs on Elm street?" >> While on the bus its true they have radios but I thought they're off >> while talking to customers. >> Whether its an address or something else you need to give them the stop >> you want to get off. This is probably done by intersections. But each >> bus system is different. >> So say "Driver, I need to get off at 4th and Clark street." Some stops >> are at landmarks or right at malls. In that case state that. "Driver I >> need to depart at the Crabtree mall." >> Often buses run in thirty minute intervals or on the hour. If you'll use >> a bus frequently get to know its schedule. >> If you live in a city you might be lucky and buses may run more like >> every 20 minutes! >> >> Kerri some systems such as the DC metro system have an automated phone >> system. You might check if yours has this; probably not but its worth >> asking. >> This phone system allows you to state your bus number. Then the computer >> system checks and says when the next bus is coming. It also says if >> there's any bus disruptions on a different menu. >> >> I also thought of something; if you have lots of questions including >> basic info, it may be worth setting up an appointment with a bus company >> representative to ask these questions. You don't want to tie up the >> phone line a long time on their end but you also want to get this >> information. If you show interest in their system, they may be happy to >> be accomodating. Accomodations are making the website accessible, >> announcing stops, providing basic info in accessible formats and >> providing accessible fair machines. >> The metro system here has information in braille and large print plus >> many phone features anyone can use including those with disabilities as >> long as you can speak clearly. >> Some companies just are not aware of blind customers and their needs. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anita Adkins" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> First, I mean once you are used to the bus route and going all over the >>> place, you will then have the information of where you are waiting and >>> can communicate this to the driver whereas you do not know now simply >>> because you are not familiar with the routes. Remember, you may not >>> always be leaving from home, and so your waiting area could be downtown >>> somewhere. In a big city, you may even be able to wait at a bus stop and >>> not need to worry with even calling, but in my area, there are not many >>> bus stops; people just flag the bus down in most spots. And, the nice >>> thing about the mall in my area is that the bus arrives at a certain >>> time, and it is easy to get to, and so I know at 30 after the hour I >>> need to be there waiting. Just FYI, you always want to be there about >>> ten minutes before the scheduled arrival time of the bus so you do not >>> miss it by accident. Here's a question for you: is your goal to ride the >>> bus, or is your goal specificly to travel on the bus from your home? >>> Another option might be for you to cab (if available) to the mall and >>> then take the bus home or, if possible, to another location that is easy >>> to arrive to. I don't mean to do this on a regular basis; I just mean >>> for a first try. Maybe, someone sighted could meet you, such as your >>> mother, when you get off the bus, but you could insist that you walk >>> home without holding her arm so you can learn the route, or you could >>> just have someone walk with you to and from the bus pickup/drop off spot >>> near your home to familiarize you with it before you take the bus at >>> all. Again, I would explore on my own, but if you are not an >>> experienced traveler, it is okay to bring along company. Just make sure >>> the company is someone who will let you walk on your own and that the >>> person is not too overhelpful or too afraid you will hurt yourself. >>> Just another thought. I agree with Ashley that is none of their business >>> where you live; perhaps, it would be a better idea for you to ask >>> someone or for you to use Google maps to learn the names of the street >>> in your area. For example, google directions from your house to a place >>> you know is close by. You will hear google say something like head west >>> toward Bell Street or whatever, and then you would know the name of the >>> cross street. Or, if you already know the name of the highway with the >>> red light, you could reference that with the bus. The bus people speak >>> over radios that can be heard by many people, and it is probably not a >>> good idea to have your address broadcast over the system just for safety >>> reasons even though you do live in a gated apartment. I am not trying to >>> scare you; I am just pointing out that you might want to avoid using >>> your address. In fact, my bus system does not want your address, and I >>> think there is a law or maybe company policy that you cannot give them >>> specific directions like that. Also, do you use the bus for people with >>> disabilities in your area? You do have to schedule this, but if you are >>> not used to taking buses, this might be a first good step as it will >>> take you from door to door and you can familiarize yourself with the >>> environments, such as the layout of the mall, before you figure out how >>> to city bus to it. Just an idea. I am certainly not trying to tell you >>> not to take the bus. But again, asking a buddy to come along for your >>> first time is okay to do. BTW, transfering is not a big deal. You just >>> ask for a transfer slip when you get on the bus and give it to the next >>> bus driver. If you transfer at a central location where all buses come >>> together, you can ask the driver if the bus you are looking for, such as >>> the green line, is in front of you or even if it has arrived yet. Also, >>> you can ask the driver to radio the driver for the bus to which you are >>> transfering to tell them you are there, but still be certain to ask >>> nearby people which color line of the bus is coming up as I do this all >>> of the time, and it is beneficial. I would call the bus company instead >>> of facebooking them alone. It is okay to facebook or send them a >>> message, but you will still probably need to call to clarify information >>> with them. Of course, you will know this for certain when you do the >>> calling. I am thinking if you call, that this is really your first big >>> step because you have made human contact with them. You may have done >>> this in the past, but now you are nervous, and calling them now will >>> mean you can succeed at one step--finding out the bus route. If you >>> have a scanner, you can probably scan this bus route in, and if you are >>> a student at the college you mention, it probably has a scanner in its >>> disability office that you may be able to use. To hire a reader, put up >>> an ad at the college. This is if you need a reader for a steady amount >>> of time each month, such as ten hours. You wouldn't want to do that for >>> just a one-time occurrence. Just some tips. Sorry if I am so talkative. >>> I'm in school, and I'm too tired to do much editing and deleting extra >>> information at this point. Smile. Again, good luck and have fun. Anita >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >>> of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: >>>> >>>> First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this >>>> stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I >>>> want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is >>>> inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them >>>> and explain the situation and where I live. >>>> >>>> Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the >>>> students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not >>>> live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to >>>> transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just >>>> take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to >>>> connect. >>>> >>>> I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first >>>> trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I >>>> may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. >>>> >>>> Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them >>>> know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the >>>> stop is? >>>> >>>> Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are >>>> colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the >>>> purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so >>>> ever. >>>> >>>> Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since >>>> I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions >>>> better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I >>>> can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops >>>> as needed. >>>> >>>> Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to >>>> understand...it's my state president and her significant other and >>>> they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? >>>> >>>> I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the >>>> schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where >>>> else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the >>>> typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if >>>> asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. >>>> >>>> Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to >>>> the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route >>>> out for now. >>>> >>>> I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've >>>> read about it. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> Kerri >>>> >>>> On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>> Kerri, >>>>> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic >>>>> and >>>>> safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no >>>>> sidewalks and >>>>> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially >>>>> since you >>>>> say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a >>>>> little >>>>> different here. But I say independence means going where you want to >>>>> go and >>>>> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for >>>>> assistant when needed. >>>>> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really >>>>> want >>>>> to go to this town center? >>>>> >>>>> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally >>>>> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near >>>>> the >>>>> driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer >>>>> most >>>>> bus companies have a bus >>>>> transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to >>>>> ask >>>>> what bus it is and where its going >>>>> when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong >>>>> bus! >>>>> >>>>> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would >>>>> not >>>>> recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from >>>>> point A >>>>> to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind >>>>> and >>>>> ask about the deviated route if you wanted. >>>>> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live >>>>> although if >>>>> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably >>>>> figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know >>>>> where you >>>>> live. >>>>> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like >>>>> yours is. >>>>> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and >>>>> repeat >>>>> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood >>>>> it. >>>>> Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get >>>>> this >>>>> info: >>>>> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the >>>>> 38B >>>>> westbound. >>>>> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. >>>>> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. >>>>> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll >>>>> tell me. >>>>> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my >>>>> end >>>>> stop? >>>>> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid >>>>> for? >>>>> >>>>> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you >>>>> and >>>>> describe major landmarks. >>>>> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when >>>>> to >>>>> get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. >>>>> So print out the map and go over it with someone. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >>>>>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >>>>>> post. >>>>>> >>>>>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >>>>>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam >>>>>> having >>>>>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >>>>>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >>>>>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >>>>>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >>>>>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >>>>>> depots. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >>>>>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >>>>>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. >>>>>> My >>>>>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >>>>>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >>>>>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >>>>>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >>>>>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >>>>>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >>>>>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >>>>>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus >>>>>> somewhere >>>>>> simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >>>>>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >>>>>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >>>>>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >>>>>> >>>>>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >>>>>> Village >>>>>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >>>>>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >>>>>> take, and what times the lines run? >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need >>>>>> to >>>>>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >>>>>> general questions and see where I get from there. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >>>>>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >>>>>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >>>>>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out >>>>>> so >>>>>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry >>>>>> certain >>>>>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses >>>>>> here >>>>>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >>>>>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >>>>>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >>>>>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed >>>>>> to >>>>>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please >>>>>> let >>>>>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid >>>>>> out >>>>>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >>>>>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times >>>>>> or >>>>>> location of each stop. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >>>>>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >>>>>> deviate for construction or something like that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >>>>>> I wanted to get your opinions on. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have an area with >>>>>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University >>>>>> Town >>>>>> Center. I initially was under >>>>>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >>>>>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >>>>>> first bus trip. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >>>>>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >>>>>> hill >>>>>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >>>>>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >>>>>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and >>>>>> they >>>>>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I >>>>>> could >>>>>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >>>>>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've >>>>>> been >>>>>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >>>>>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >>>>>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >>>>>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >>>>>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >>>>>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped >>>>>> off >>>>>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >>>>>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >>>>>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a >>>>>> movie >>>>>> at the movie theater. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things >>>>>> done >>>>>> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >>>>>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >>>>>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >>>>>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >>>>>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >>>>>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and >>>>>> it'd >>>>>> be too much work/reconstruction. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >>>>>> griping or does action need to be taken? >>>>>> >>>>>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >>>>>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. >>>>>> I >>>>>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >>>>>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one >>>>>> area >>>>>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >>>>>> get to practice cane travel as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to >>>>>> this >>>>>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >>>>>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >>>>>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >>>>>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >>>>>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >>>>>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you >>>>>> live >>>>>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >>>>>> them with ease? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really >>>>>> want >>>>>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >>>>>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus >>>>>> to >>>>>> the mall instead. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kerri >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 12:10:55 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:10:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions References: <5D39B3F6358242E9936BB8FBEF499C93@Ashley> Message-ID: I could be wrong here, but even if the lines are color coordinated cardinal directions are generally universally recognized. You could ask the directions of the lines: East, West, North South. You could message them but in my opinion calling would be great practice to solicit information from the general public. Try both approaches and see which works best for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions > Hi Ashley, Anita, and All: > > First, Anita, I can't just call them and say "I'm waiting at this > stop" as I don't know where the stop is from my apartment complex. I > want to say it's at the light but not for certain. The website is > inaccessible so I can't check there. So, I kind of have to call them > and explain the situation and where I live. > > Also Anita, Morgantown is a college town and since the majority of the > students can drive the bus caters to the freshman students. I do not > live in the student area so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to > transfer or take two buses to get anywhere. I don't think I can just > take just one bus to one location as it's weird here and you have to > connect. > > I think I'd like to go to the Morgantown Mall in Westover for my first > trip. I am on the same side of town as the mall so maybe just maybe I > may be able to go on one bus but I'll have to check. > > Ashley, I live in a gated apartment complex...Don't I need to let them > know what complex it is and where it is so they can tell me where the > stop is? > > Also, our buses do not have directions like westbound...they are > colored lines...the orange line, the blue and gold connector, the > purple line, the brown line...they have no directional names what so > ever. > > Since they are on Facebook...would it be okay if I messaged them since > I'm better at writing than talking and can think out my questions > better when writing? Or do I have to call? If I message them then I > can copy/make notes on the time, any transfers, and location of stops > as needed. > > Also, I'll ask if my friend could come down but you have to > understand...it's my state president and her significant other and > they are middle-aged so...I'll ask them but I don't know? > > I tried to talk to my mother to see if she could help me look at the > schedule and map but she said I could just call...I don't know where > else to get help from. Many of the sighted people I know have the > typical feel sorry for the blind girl attitude so I don't know if > asking a sighted friend to help me would be effective but I will try. > > Also since I shouldn't need to use the deviated route service to go to > the mall I guess to keep things simple I'll leave the deviated route > out for now. > > I don't currently have a reader nor know how to hire one though I've > read about it. > > Thanks. > Kerri > > On 10/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Kerri, >> Sometimes I believe as blind people we need to do what is realistic and >> safe. If this venue is not pedestrian friendly with few or no sidewalks >> and >> built for cars, then I'd really advise not going there especially since >> you >> say you're a beginning traveler. My views of independence may be a >> little >> different here. But I say independence means going where you want to go >> and >> when but not inconveiencing yourself too much and it means asking for >> assistant when needed. >> Why not make some friends and go with them who have cars if you really >> want >> to go to this town center? >> >> I can't answer your depot question as I have not done that. Generally >> though with buses, yes ask the driver to announce your stop. Sit near >> the >> driver and you might have to remind him/her. If you need to transfer >> most >> bus companies have a bus >> transfer pass. So get one before leaving your first bus. Be sure to ask >> what bus it is and where its going >> when you board your second bus. You don't want to board the wrong bus! >> >> As to the bus company and questions, its up to you. But no I would not >> recommend stating where you live. Just explain you want to get from >> point A >> to B and give the addresses. Then yes you could explain you're blind and >> ask about the deviated route if you wanted. >> Its not necessary for the representative to know where you live although >> if >> they see the address is an apartment complex they'll probably >> figure its your home. But its not the company's business to know where >> you >> live. >> I have hardly traveled either because my mother is protective like yours >> is. >> But when I ask about public transit, I take down the information and >> repeat >> it back to the customer service representative to ensure I understood it. >> Another option is to record the information while on the phone. I get >> this >> info: >> 1. the time the bus leaves my stop and the full name of it like the 38B >> westbound. >> Each bus has two directions so the direction is important. >> 2. The arrival time of the bus to the next destination. >> 3. At my destination any landmarks or where the stop is if they'll tell >> me. >> Does it let me off mid block? Near a 711? Is there a bus shelter at my >> end >> stop? >> 4. If I need a transfer ticket how long is the transfer pass valid for? >> >> Finally, if you use readers I'd say they could look at the map for you >> and >> describe major landmarks. >> Sometimes you need sighted assistance and independence is knowing when to >> get it. Independence is being in control of your choices. >> So print out the map and go over it with someone. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:54 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] more transportation, and travel questions >> >> >>> Hi All: >>> >>> I have a few more travel and transportation questions. Again, I hope >>> these don't jump around too much but I figured I'd make them all one >>> post. >>> >>> First, I think I would like to try sometime in the future taking the >>> bus to somewhere simple such as maybe the mall. The problem Iam having >>> is that this being a college town the bus caters to the nondriving >>> students, who are the freshman. The freshman for the most part live >>> downtown on the downtown campus (the college has two campuses.) I do >>> not live in the downtown area so to go anywhere from my house on the >>> bus I'd have to make a transfer at most likely one of the two bus >>> depots. >>> >>> When I've tried to contact the bus in the past, they tell me that the >>> bus comes to the light at the six-lane highway that is the first >>> street you come to after you exit the gate of my apartment complex. My >>> apartment complex isn't very accessible...when I moved here I didn't >>> know about the NFB so accessability wasnt one of the priorities. On >>> top of that my mother who is very overprotective really liked this >>> complex because it is gated and has security after 6 o'clock. >>> >>> Anyway, from what a friend in the NFB who doesn't live here but lives >>> in another town about half an hour away who has taken our bus before >>> tells me, the bus supposedly has a deviated route system where they >>> will go out of the way of the route one-fourth of a mile and pick you >>> up, almost like paratransit. I'd like to try to take the bus somewhere >>> simple. >>> >>> However, I feel a little overwhelmed. Do I call and begin by telling >>> them I am blind, and would like to try taking their bus for the first >>> time and ask them what accomodations they have for people with >>> disabilities and ask them about the deviated route system? >>> >>> Then from there, do I explain where I live which is at the Suncrest >>> Village >>> Apartment Complex on Maple Drive and that I would like to go to the >>> Morgantown Mall in Westover and ask them which lines I would need to >>> take, and what times the lines run? >>> >>> I understand that in order to use the deviated route service I need to >>> apply and fill out paperwork...but I figured I'd start by just asking >>> general questions and see where I get from there. >>> >>> Since I'll most likely have a transfer at one of the depots, is there >>> anything I should know about bus depots? From what my friend who has >>> taken the bus before says all the buses line up along the curb...but >>> I've also been told bus depots are where a lot of homeless hang out so >>> is there anything I should know about them? Should I not carry certain >>> items? From what my friend said, he and his wife took three buses here >>> and everyone was very friendly and nice and the bus drivers even get >>> out of the bus and announce what line the bus is when they approach. >>> HHowever, he says they do not announce stops as they come to them or >>> announce intersections as they come to them which they are supposed to >>> do. I figure when I get on the bus I will ask the driver to please let >>> me know when we get to the line I need to get off at. >>> >>> Yes, the bus company does have a website but their routes are laid out >>> in a map which is inaccessible to screenreaders...you can get a >>> description of which line goes where but you can't access the times or >>> location of each stop. >>> >>> Our bus which is called Mountain Line is also on both Twitter and >>> Facebook and they update frequently with updates if a route has to >>> deviate for construction or something like that. >>> >>> >>> >>> My next questions bring up an issue that I just found out about, that >>> I wanted to get your opinions on. >>> >>> We have an area with >>> sevral stores, restaurants, and a movie theater called University Town >>> Center. I initially was under >>> the assumption it was a strip mall and everything could be walked to. >>> So, I thought I could just simply take the bus there and make that my >>> first bus trip. >>> >>> However, it turns out it is very inaccessible and not pedestrian >>> friendly at all. The buildings are very spread out along a mile-long >>> hill >>> and to get from one to the other you have to go across a four-lane >>> highway-like street and through the store's parking lots. I did some >>> research and apparently these are popping up in several areas and they >>> are called "metroplex shopping centers." I asked whether maybe I could >>> have someone from Customer Service walk me from one place to another >>> such as from one of the restaurants to the movie theater but I've been >>> told it's not possible as the area wasn't built for pedestrians. This >>> shopping center contains stores such as Starbucks, Target, Sams Club, >>> Macys, Walmart, T.J. Macs, Barnes and Noble, Giant Eagle, a shoe >>> store, a dress store, and Bestbuy. Some of the restaurants are Cicis >>> Pizza, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheddars, Cracker Barrel, Golden >>> Karrowe, Longhorn Steakhouse, and Chillis just to name a few. >>> >>> Obviously, it would be very very convient to be able to be dropped off >>> at this University Town Center, and get everything done in one >>> place...maybe get a coffee from Starbucks, go to Walmart to get >>> groceries, then maybe go to one of the restaurants or to catch a movie >>> at the movie theater. >>> >>> There are other places I could go in town and get the same things done >>> but they wouldn't be as efficient. >>> >>> Obviously, the people who built this town center did not consider >>> pedestrians at all and just assumed everyone would be able to drive. >>> >>> Does anyone else have these types of shopping centers in their area >>> and can anything be done to make it more pedestrian friendly or maybe >>> have a shuttle that would go from store to store? Considering this >>> area has already been completed and built, I've been told there is no >>> point in battling it because it would cost too much to fix it and it'd >>> be too much work/reconstruction. >>> >>> Do I just find other ways to get the same things done and quit my >>> griping or does action need to be taken? >>> >>> Like I said, I could go to the mall to get something to eat and see a >>> movie, then maybe drive through Starbucks afterwords on my way home. I >>> could do my grocery shopping at Kroger which is right near me...but >>> for a beginning traveler I thought it'd be neat to go to this one area >>> and get evrything done in one convient location and not only that but >>> get to practice cane travel as well. >>> >>> And, yes from what I've read on their website, the bus does go to this >>> University Towncenter several times a day. But, since it isn't >>> pedestrian friendly, I don't know if it would drop me off at one >>> store, then pick me up and take me to another store, one of the >>> restaurants, or the movie theater? As I said, I am very upset about >>> this because that'd be a simple place to start out with and practice >>> travel/get some things done all at the same time in one location. >>> >>> Thoughts? Are these "metroplex shopping centers" common where you live >>> and if so can most of you who are better travelers than I navigate >>> them with ease? >>> >>> Thanks so much and I know my posts jump around a lot but I really want >>> to try taking the bus somewhere simple, and I thought this University >>> town center would be simple...but I guess I could just take the bus to >>> the mall instead. >>> >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 21:21:40 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:21:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing Accessible Games Message-ID: Hi All! Since there was talk on this list about accessible gaming, I thought I'd pass along a message that came from the texas holdem list I'm on that http://www.blindadrenaline.com has. Feel free to share this with anyone you think would want to know about this. >From David Dunphy Hi There! Do you enjoy a good game of Texas Holdem Poker with friends and family? Well, imagine how it would feel to play against players from all over the USA and the world! This doesn't have to be a dream, in fact, it's a reality, and you can live it this weekend on http://www.blindadrenaline.com Join us on blindadrenaline.com, as we have not one, but two exciting texas holdem tournaments taking place, both of which are sponsored by ShockWaveRadio, the driving force of entertainment on the internet! http://www.shockwaveradio.net And there are prizes for the top winners up for grabs too! Not a member of the site? Go to http://www.blindadrenaline.com and sign up for the 15 day free trial! Here are the details for the tournaments: Saturday, October 16 2010 Tournament Start Time: 3:00PM eastern Tournament Name: Setting The Standards, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net Registration open now up until 3 PM eastern, with the actual game starting at 3:10PM eastern The buy-in is 10 thousand dollars The blinds will double every 20 minutes The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 5 thousand dollars. This 5K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. If you make the final table, you'll receive 50 thousand dollars in your account. The final table action will be broadcast live on ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented to you by David Dunphy and Jack Scrimshaw of http://www.audiomirrorfm.com And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months membership! In addition, the person who finishes first will have the option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either phone number or skype details to djd at shockwaveradio.net so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start of the tournament. Sunday October 17 2010 Tournament Start Time: 3:00PM eastern Tournament Name: Raisin' The Bar, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net Registration will open after the first tournament on Saturday ends, and will be open up until 3:00PM eastern Sunday, with the actual game starting at 3:10PM eastern The buy-in is 50 thousand dollars The blinds will double every 30 minutes The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 10 thousand dollars. This 10K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. If you make the final table, you'll receive 100000 dollars in your account. As in the case of Saturday's tournament, this too will be covered live on ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented by David Dunphy, and well...You never know who might join me... And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months membership! As with Saturday's game, the person who finishes first will have the option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either phone number or skype details to djd at shockwaveradio.net so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start of the tournament. If you plan on playing in both tournaments, you need only send these details once if you wish to be considered for an interview. Again, the site to play on is at http://www.blindadrenaline.com Hope to see you there for some high-action texas holdem poker! Will you know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em? We'll find out this weekend! All the best, David Dunphy From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 22:30:08 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:30:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing Accessible Games References: Message-ID: Is this real money? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dunphy" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:21 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing Accessible Games > Hi All! > Since there was talk on this list about accessible gaming, I thought I'd > pass along a message that came from the texas holdem list I'm on that > http://www.blindadrenaline.com > has. Feel free to share this with anyone you think would want to know > about this. >>From David Dunphy > > Hi There! > Do you enjoy a good game of Texas Holdem Poker with friends and family? > Well, imagine how it would feel to play against players from all over the > USA and the world! > This doesn't have to be a dream, in fact, it's a reality, and you can live > it this weekend on > http://www.blindadrenaline.com > Join us on blindadrenaline.com, as we have not one, but two exciting texas > holdem tournaments taking place, both of which are sponsored by > ShockWaveRadio, the driving force of entertainment on the internet! > http://www.shockwaveradio.net > And there are prizes for the top winners up for grabs too! > Not a member of the site? Go to > http://www.blindadrenaline.com > and sign up for the 15 day free trial! > Here are the details for the tournaments: > Saturday, October 16 2010 > Tournament Start Time: > 3:00PM eastern > Tournament Name: > Setting The Standards, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net > Registration open now up until 3 PM eastern, with the actual game starting > at 3:10PM eastern > > The buy-in is 10 thousand dollars > The blinds will double every 20 minutes > The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 5 thousand dollars. > This 5K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. > If you make the final table, you'll receive 50 thousand dollars in your > account. > The final table action will be broadcast live on ShockWaveRadio, with play > by play presented to you by David Dunphy and Jack Scrimshaw of > http://www.audiomirrorfm.com > And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to > blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months > membership! > In addition, the person who finishes first will have the option of being > interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this > opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either > phone number or skype details to > djd at shockwaveradio.net > so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be > interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start > of the tournament. > > > Sunday October 17 2010 > Tournament Start Time: > 3:00PM eastern > Tournament Name: > Raisin' The Bar, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net > Registration will open after the first tournament on Saturday ends, and > will be open up until 3:00PM eastern Sunday, with the actual game starting > at 3:10PM eastern > > The buy-in is 50 thousand dollars > The blinds will double every 30 minutes > The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 10 thousand > dollars. This 10K will be put in your account for every person you bust > out. > If you make the final table, you'll receive 100000 dollars in your > account. > As in the case of Saturday's tournament, this too will be covered live on > ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented by David Dunphy, and > well...You never know who might join me... > And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to > blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months > membership! > As with Saturday's game, the person who finishes first will have the > option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If > you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline > nickname, and either phone number or skype details to > djd at shockwaveradio.net > so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be > interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start > of the tournament. > If you plan on playing in both tournaments, you need only send these > details once if you wish to be considered for an interview. > Again, the site to play on is at > http://www.blindadrenaline.com > Hope to see you there for some high-action texas holdem poker! Will you > know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em? We'll find out this weekend! > All the best, > David Dunphy > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Oct 13 22:32:41 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:32:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] K sonar from BAT Message-ID: <6B004DC8CDED4A73A85D3556733C7DE8@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello Everyone, I am curious about the K sonar. Has anyone used it, and is/was it beneficial for you? I love the sound of the idea. Recently, I had to teach a ten-minute lesson in Science about sound, and so I thought it would be neat if sound waves could be used to alert blind folks to obstacles by conceiving a device that could somehow detect sound waves and draw a picture of where sound was not occuring to avoid obstacles. I decided to see if it had already been invented since if I could think of it, it probably had been conceived already. It had, and as usual pertaining to assistive technology, it sounds expensive if New Zealand and US currency are equivalent. Does anyone know of any US distributors of this product, and if so where? Also, if you have one of these devices, where did you purchase from and was the supplier a reputable supplier. Right now, I am just curious and wanting to learn more. I would appreciate it if anyone with information or experience on this is willing to share. The link below is for one company where I found this device. http://www.zabonne.com/?action=product&id=10458&category=10049 Also, this website gives different places to get the item http://www.batforblind.co.nz/distributors.phpRemember, Jesus Loves You. Anita From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 22:50:44 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:50:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing AccessibleGames References: Message-ID: No, it's play money. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing AccessibleGames > Is this real money? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Dunphy" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:21 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing Accessible > Games > > >> Hi All! >> Since there was talk on this list about accessible gaming, I thought I'd >> pass along a message that came from the texas holdem list I'm on that >> http://www.blindadrenaline.com >> has. Feel free to share this with anyone you think would want to know >> about this. >>>From David Dunphy >> >> Hi There! >> Do you enjoy a good game of Texas Holdem Poker with friends and family? >> Well, imagine how it would feel to play against players from all over the >> USA and the world! >> This doesn't have to be a dream, in fact, it's a reality, and you can >> live it this weekend on >> http://www.blindadrenaline.com >> Join us on blindadrenaline.com, as we have not one, but two exciting >> texas holdem tournaments taking place, both of which are sponsored by >> ShockWaveRadio, the driving force of entertainment on the internet! >> http://www.shockwaveradio.net >> And there are prizes for the top winners up for grabs too! >> Not a member of the site? Go to >> http://www.blindadrenaline.com >> and sign up for the 15 day free trial! >> Here are the details for the tournaments: >> Saturday, October 16 2010 >> Tournament Start Time: >> 3:00PM eastern >> Tournament Name: >> Setting The Standards, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net >> Registration open now up until 3 PM eastern, with the actual game >> starting at 3:10PM eastern >> >> The buy-in is 10 thousand dollars >> The blinds will double every 20 minutes >> The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 5 thousand >> dollars. This 5K will be put in your account for every person you bust >> out. >> If you make the final table, you'll receive 50 thousand dollars in your >> account. >> The final table action will be broadcast live on ShockWaveRadio, with >> play by play presented to you by David Dunphy and Jack Scrimshaw of >> http://www.audiomirrorfm.com >> And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to >> blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months >> membership! >> In addition, the person who finishes first will have the option of being >> interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this >> opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either >> phone number or skype details to >> djd at shockwaveradio.net >> so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will >> be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the >> start of the tournament. >> >> >> Sunday October 17 2010 >> Tournament Start Time: >> 3:00PM eastern >> Tournament Name: >> Raisin' The Bar, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net >> Registration will open after the first tournament on Saturday ends, and >> will be open up until 3:00PM eastern Sunday, with the actual game >> starting at 3:10PM eastern >> >> The buy-in is 50 thousand dollars >> The blinds will double every 30 minutes >> The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 10 thousand >> dollars. This 10K will be put in your account for every person you bust >> out. >> If you make the final table, you'll receive 100000 dollars in your >> account. >> As in the case of Saturday's tournament, this too will be covered live on >> ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented by David Dunphy, and >> well...You never know who might join me... >> And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to >> blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months >> membership! >> As with Saturday's game, the person who finishes first will have the >> option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If >> you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline >> nickname, and either phone number or skype details to >> djd at shockwaveradio.net >> so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will >> be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the >> start of the tournament. >> If you plan on playing in both tournaments, you need only send these >> details once if you wish to be considered for an interview. >> Again, the site to play on is at >> http://www.blindadrenaline.com >> Hope to see you there for some high-action texas holdem poker! Will you >> know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em? We'll find out this weekend! >> All the best, >> David Dunphy >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > From dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 22:50:32 2010 From: dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:50:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love Playing AccessibleGames Message-ID: <4cb637ca.9a9ce60a.2f5a.ffffcf51@mx.google.com> I'm assuming so because to join that sight for more than the 15 day trial, you have to pay. Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" From David Dunphy Hi There! Do you enjoy a good game of Texas Holdem Poker with friends and family? Well, imagine how it would feel to play against players from all over the USA and the world! This doesn't have to be a dream, in fact, it's a reality, and you can live it this weekend on http://www.blindadrenaline.com Join us on blindadrenaline.com, as we have not one, but two exciting texas holdem tournaments taking place, both of which are sponsored by ShockWaveRadio, the driving force of entertainment on the internet! http://www.shockwaveradio.net And there are prizes for the top winners up for grabs too! Not a member of the site? Go to http://www.blindadrenaline.com and sign up for the 15 day free trial! Here are the details for the tournaments: Saturday, October 16 2010 Tournament Start Time: 3:00PM eastern Tournament Name: Setting The Standards, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net Registration open now up until 3 PM eastern, with the actual game starting at 3:10PM eastern The buy-in is 10 thousand dollars The blinds will double every 20 minutes The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 5 thousand dollars. This 5K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. If you make the final table, you'll receive 50 thousand dollars in your account. The final table action will be broadcast live on ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented to you by David Dunphy and Jack Scrimshaw of http://www.audiomirrorfm.com And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months membership! In addition, the person who finishes first will have the option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either phone number or skype details to djd at shockwaveradio.net so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start of the tournament. Sunday October 17 2010 Tournament Start Time: 3:00PM eastern Tournament Name: Raisin' The Bar, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net Registration will open after the first tournament on Saturday ends, and will be open up until 3:00PM eastern Sunday, with the actual game starting at 3:10PM eastern The buy-in is 50 thousand dollars The blinds will double every 30 minutes The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 10 thousand dollars. This 10K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. If you make the final table, you'll receive 100000 dollars in your account. As in the case of Saturday's tournament, this too will be covered live on ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented by David Dunphy, and well...You never know who might join me... And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months membership! As with Saturday's game, the person who finishes first will have the option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either phone number or skype details to djd at shockwaveradio.net so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start of the tournament. If you plan on playing in both tournaments, you need only send these details once if you wish to be considered for an interview. Again, the site to play on is at http://www.blindadrenaline.com Hope to see you there for some high-action texas holdem poker! Will you know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em? We'll find out this weekend! All the best, David Dunphy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingja cksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dannivoic eangel333%40gmail.com From dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 22:59:47 2010 From: dannivoiceangel333 at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:59:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Exciting Event For Those Who Love PlayingAccessibleGames Message-ID: <4cb639f5.1e30dc0a.042b.ffffe581@mx.google.com> Well, not cash, but I believe that the "money" is supposed to be free month(s) of membership. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dunphy" From David Dunphy Hi There! Do you enjoy a good game of Texas Holdem Poker with friends and family? Well, imagine how it would feel to play against players from all over the USA and the world! This doesn't have to be a dream, in fact, it's a reality, and you can live it this weekend on http://www.blindadrenaline.com Join us on blindadrenaline.com, as we have not one, but two exciting texas holdem tournaments taking place, both of which are sponsored by ShockWaveRadio, the driving force of entertainment on the internet! http://www.shockwaveradio.net And there are prizes for the top winners up for grabs too! Not a member of the site? Go to http://www.blindadrenaline.com and sign up for the 15 day free trial! Here are the details for the tournaments: Saturday, October 16 2010 Tournament Start Time: 3:00PM eastern Tournament Name: Setting The Standards, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net Registration open now up until 3 PM eastern, with the actual game starting at 3:10PM eastern The buy-in is 10 thousand dollars The blinds will double every 20 minutes The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 5 thousand dollars. This 5K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. If you make the final table, you'll receive 50 thousand dollars in your account. The final table action will be broadcast live on ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented to you by David Dunphy and Jack Scrimshaw of http://www.audiomirrorfm.com And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months membership! In addition, the person who finishes first will have the option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either phone number or skype details to djd at shockwaveradio.net so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start of the tournament. Sunday October 17 2010 Tournament Start Time: 3:00PM eastern Tournament Name: Raisin' The Bar, Presented By ShockWaveRadio.net Registration will open after the first tournament on Saturday ends, and will be open up until 3:00PM eastern Sunday, with the actual game starting at 3:10PM eastern The buy-in is 50 thousand dollars The blinds will double every 30 minutes The bounty for taking someone out of the tournament is 10 thousand dollars. This 10K will be put in your account for every person you bust out. If you make the final table, you'll receive 100000 dollars in your account. As in the case of Saturday's tournament, this too will be covered live on ShockWaveRadio, with play by play presented by David Dunphy, and well...You never know who might join me... And if you come in second, you'll receive 1 month free of membership to blindadrenaline.com, and if you come in first, you'll receive 3 months membership! As with Saturday's game, the person who finishes first will have the option of being interviewed on ShockWaveRadio once the game completes. If you'd like this opportunity, send me your name, your BlindAdrenaline nickname, and either phone number or skype details to djd at shockwaveradio.net so we can call you once the game has finished. Only the top winner will be interviewed at the end if he/she submits their info to me before the start of the tournament. If you plan on playing in both tournaments, you need only send these details once if you wish to be considered for an interview. Again, the site to play on is at http://www.blindadrenaline.com Hope to see you there for some high-action texas holdem poker! Will you know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em? We'll find out this weekend! All the best, David Dunphy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingja cksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4 ever%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dannivoic eangel333%40gmail.com From agrima at nbp.org Thu Oct 14 17:56:59 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:56:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New: Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with Jaws Message-ID: <676474D1C9E1446C8C5A2E4975F63CDB@nbp2.local> Hello - here's a new book from National Braille Press. -Tony Grima, NBP Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with Jaws By Toni Fraser In Braille, eBraille, Large Print, or ASCII Text/Word, $10 Author Toni Fraser set out to learn how to use Microsoft Word, but she found that while many state agencies across the country had started to use and teach Word 07, her state had not. She saw the need and decided to write this book. Fraser writes the book using Word 2007, JAWS 11, and Windows 7, but the book's lessons apply to any version of Windows that can run Office 2007 with JAWS versions 8 and above. She covers the Microsoft Word and JAWS keystrokes, showing how JAWS "speaks" what many things are - and that it doesn't have to be scary! Learn how to use style sheets, create a table of contents, do a mail merge, add automatic page numbers, password-protect your documents - and much more! Note: The ASCII Text edition also includes a Microsoft Word edition. Select "ASCII Text" - either CD-ROM or Download - from the drop-down list, and you will receive both the ASCII Text and Word editions. To purchase this book, go to: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/WORD2007.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 20:11:40 2010 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 16:11:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! Message-ID: Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which sell the following? Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. Thanks for reading, Alex From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Thu Oct 14 21:17:56 2010 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:17:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6FE1DB85FE7145C7A3A6C2B592381A3C@GregsToshiba> Hello, I usually use http://www.independentliving.com/?gclid=CN6f1J2lz58CFQgNDQodmFr1iw To get my canes. They have a good selection. Greg W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Castillo" To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! > Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some > rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, > cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. > > While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those > $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go > to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which > sell the following? > > Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? > > If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For > example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped > identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; > when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in > very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a > telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. > > Thanks for reading, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From haltaf at carrollu.edu Thu Oct 14 23:03:48 2010 From: haltaf at carrollu.edu (Hina) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:03:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] need help Message-ID: <7A8993A6E295411C92979C22CDA0F820@DB8D43F1> hi, is there any land line phone that could be talking? i know there are cell phones like that. also which cell phone has larger keys and it works either with talks or mobile speak or any other solution? i need to know for a friend, thanks. hina. From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 00:11:11 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:11:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] need help In-Reply-To: <7A8993A6E295411C92979C22CDA0F820@DB8D43F1> References: <7A8993A6E295411C92979C22CDA0F820@DB8D43F1> Message-ID: <52B7AAF2-2CC9-47E5-9FFE-72AC9350D6D3@gmail.com> Greetings, By talking, do you man, with a caller ID and or answering machine. i think you could buy those separate. if there are any phones that have that built in, and talk, i am unaware of any. I don't know how big of a button you want, but i will son be selling, or giving away, my moto Q 9M. it's out od date, but the buttons are a fairly good size i'd think, and it's got mobilespeak already on it. On Oct 14, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Hina wrote: > hi, > is there any land line phone that could be talking? i know there are cell phones like that. also which cell phone has larger keys and it works either with talks or mobile speak or any other solution? i need to know for a friend, thanks. > hina. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Oct 14 23:38:51 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:38:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] need help References: <7A8993A6E295411C92979C22CDA0F820@DB8D43F1> Message-ID: <6A068A1F9BB54805BF415D9E63E69DB8@Ashley> A land phone talking? Why? It generally doesn't have a screen; you hear voice mails. Screens are only found on office phones. But yes I believe there are talking phones. Check Independent living Aids for them. They also have talking caller Ids. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] need help > hi, > is there any land line phone that could be talking? i know there are cell > phones like that. also which cell phone has larger keys and it works > either with talks or mobile speak or any other solution? i need to know > for a friend, thanks. > hina. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From dandrews at visi.com Fri Oct 15 09:12:39 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 04:12:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NBP-Announce: New: Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with Jaws Message-ID: > >Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with Jaws >By Toni Fraser >In Braille, eBraille, Large Print, or ASCII Text/Word, $10 > >Author Toni Fraser set out to learn how to use Microsoft Word, but she >found that while many state agencies across the country had started to >use and teach Word 07, her state had not. She saw the need and decided >to write this book. > >Fraser writes the book using Word 2007, JAWS 11, and Windows 7, but the >book's lessons apply to any version of Windows that can run Office 2007 >with JAWS versions 8 and above. She covers the Microsoft Word and JAWS >keystrokes, showing how JAWS "speaks" what many things are - and that it >doesn't have to be scary! Learn how to use style sheets, create a table >of contents, do a mail merge, add automatic page numbers, >password-protect your documents - and much more! > >Note: The ASCII Text edition also includes a Microsoft Word edition. >Select "ASCII Text" - either CD-ROM or Download - from the drop-down >list, and you will receive both the ASCII Text and Word editions. > >To purchase this book, go to: >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/WORD2007.html > >****** >To order any books, send payment to: >NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 >Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext >520. Or order any of our books online at >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html > > >_______________________________________________ >Nbp mailing list >Nbp at nbp.org > >PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message >and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . > >Visit us at http://www.nbp.org Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Fri Oct 15 10:39:52 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 05:39:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] K sonar from BAT In-Reply-To: <6B004DC8CDED4A73A85D3556733C7DE8@AnitaAdkinsPC> References: <6B004DC8CDED4A73A85D3556733C7DE8@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: Most people don't find it to be that practical or useful. If it was better, it would have caught on -- don't you think?? It has been around for a while! Dave At 05:32 PM 10/13/2010, you wrote: >Hello Everyone, > >I am curious about the K sonar. Has anyone used it, and is/was it >beneficial for you? I love the sound of the idea. Recently, I had >to teach a ten-minute lesson in Science about sound, and so I >thought it would be neat if sound waves could be used to alert blind >folks to obstacles by conceiving a device that could somehow detect >sound waves and draw a picture of where sound was not occuring to >avoid obstacles. I decided to see if it had already been invented >since if I could think of it, it probably had been conceived >already. It had, and as usual pertaining to assistive technology, >it sounds expensive if New Zealand and US currency are >equivalent. Does anyone know of any US distributors of this >product, and if so where? Also, if you have one of these devices, >where did you purchase from and was the supplier a reputable >supplier. Right now, I am just curious and wanting to learn >more. I would appreciate it if anyone with information or >experience on this is willing to share. The link below is for one >company where I found this device. >http://www.zabonne.com/?action=product&id=10458&category=10049 >Also, this website gives different places to get the item >http://www.batforblind.co.nz/distributors.phpRemember, Jesus Loves You. >Anita David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From hope.paulos at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 13:45:05 2010 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:45:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] need help References: <7A8993A6E295411C92979C22CDA0F820@DB8D43F1> <52B7AAF2-2CC9-47E5-9FFE-72AC9350D6D3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1DD16C5F4F1D4D04BB2BCD2FF5529523@Espy> I know of a lot of people with panasonic phones that have the phone, answering machine, and talking caller ID. I'll ask them the model number for you and get back to you. Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] need help > Greetings, > > By talking, do you man, with a caller ID and or answering machine. i think > you could buy those separate. if there are any phones that have that built > in, and talk, i am unaware of any. > > I don't know how big of a button you want, but i will son be selling, or > giving away, my moto Q 9M. it's out od date, but the buttons are a fairly > good size i'd think, and it's got mobilespeak already on it. > On Oct 14, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Hina wrote: > >> hi, >> is there any land line phone that could be talking? i know there are cell >> phones like that. also which cell phone has larger keys and it works >> either with talks or mobile speak or any other solution? i need to know >> for a friend, thanks. >> hina. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5513 (20101007) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5513 (20101007) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 16:29:34 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:29:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator Message-ID: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> Hi, List, I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would appreciate the info. Best, Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB From seacknit at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 17:18:39 2010 From: seacknit at gmail.com (Sally Thomas) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:18:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64CFC6FEF1A949A3A1D4DDF853062738@OwnerPC> Don't forget the free cane program at nfb.org Sally Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Castillo" To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! > Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some > rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, > cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. > > While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those > $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go > to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which > sell the following? > > Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? > > If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For > example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped > identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; > when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in > very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a > telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. > > Thanks for reading, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/seacknit%40gmail.com From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Fri Oct 15 17:44:10 2010 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:44:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> Message-ID: <026F46B970364BD59C1BA0574FF82893@GregsToshiba> Hello, The only one I know of is for the computer. It is called AGC(audio graphing calculator). I have never seen any like the Texas insturments models. Greg W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dezman Jackson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator > Hi, List, > > I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school > student. I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by > these days but what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such > a device I would appreciate the info. > > Best, > > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From dandrews at visi.com Fri Oct 15 18:02:42 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:02:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> Message-ID: Viewplus Technologies has a PC-based one I believe. Dave At 11:29 AM 10/15/2010, you wrote: >Hi, List, > >I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school >student. I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come >by these days but what about those that do graphing? If anyone >knows of such a device I would appreciate the info. David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 18:21:19 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:21:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs membership Conference call: About S.T.E.M. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Attention All Students! Ever been curious about what majors and specializations blind individuals have had in the past? Have you ever felt like learning about fields such as Science, Technology, Engineering and Math- (STEM), are “too difficult”? Do alternative techniques a blind person may use in such fields just baffle you? If any of the above apply to you- Please attend the Membership phone call, presented by the Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students. We are going to cover concerns, techniques, and generalized information about how blind students can participate on equal terms with their sighted peers, even when focusing on STEM fields. Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010 When: 7:15 pm EST # Where: NABS conference line- (712)775-7100 Code: 257963#. Why: TO learn and network with other blind students who wish to pursuer careers, or just get to know about opportunities in the STEM fields for the blind. We will discuss items such as the NASA Excel program, Youth Slam, the Junior Science Academy, etc… We are open to all types of technique questions, resource question, to be answered by the guest speaker and the committee. Hope to see you there! Sincerely, Membership Committee National Association of Blind Students On 10/11/10, Darian Smith wrote: > Attention All Students! > > Ever been curious about what majors and specializations blind > individuals have had in the past? Have you ever felt like learning > about fields such as Science, Technology, Engineering and Math- > (STEM), are “too difficult”? Do alternative techniques a blind person > may use in such fields just baffle you? > > If any of the above apply to you- > Please attend the Membership phone call, presented by the Membership > Committee of the National Association of Blind Students. We are going > to cover concerns, techniques, and generalized information about how > blind students can participate on equal terms with their sighted > peers, even when focusing on STEM fields. > > Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010 > When: 7:15 pm EST # > Where: NABS conference line- (712)775-7100 Code: 257963#. > Why: TO learn and network with other blind students who wish to > pursuer careers, or just get to know about opportunities in the STEM > fields for the blind. > > We will discuss items such as the NASA Excel program, Youth Slam, the > Junior Science Academy, etc… We are open to all types of technique > questions, resource question, to be answered by the guest speaker and > the committee. Hope to see you there! > > Sincerely, > > Membership Committee > National Association of Blind Students > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From jzimba at mdtap.org Fri Oct 15 19:02:18 2010 From: jzimba at mdtap.org (Joel Zimba) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:02:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Seeking Accessible Content Developers Message-ID: --- Hello: The Maryland Technology Assistance Program is compiling a directory of developers who build accessible websites. We are frequently asked, by many organizations for references to individuals or companies that are competent in developing websites that comply with web accessibility standards such as Section 508 of the federal Rehabilitation Act, or, Web Content Accessibility Guidelines established by W3c. If you are a developer, or if you know of one, please e-mail contact information to: webaccess at mdtap.org. Please include as much information as possible, such as: name, address, phone, e-mail, homepage URL, related certifications and examples of previous projects. As this type of work can be done from anywhere, feel free to contact us regardless of geographic location. We also welcome organizations of any size, from individuals to companies with large development teams. Some indication of the size of project you are ready to take on will help to more quickly connect you with the proper customer, but is not required. We are a State of Maryland agency so will not be charging for our directory, nor will we be advertising or promoting any specific service. Our goal is to create a resource which will be useful to anyone. If you have ideas or suggestions, please let us know. Also, please forward this e-mail to any interested party, including other mailing lists. Sincerely, Joel Zimba Access Content Coordinator MD Technology Assistance Program jzimba at mdtap.org (410) 554-9276 Received: from smtpauth20.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net ([64.202.165.36]) by m1pismtp01-010.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2010 06:49:37 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO m1pismtp01-010.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net) ([10.8.12.10]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp34.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-1.03) with SMTP for ; 15 Oct 2010 13:49:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (141.157.54.207) by smtpauth20.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.36) with ESMTP; 15 Oct 2010 13:49:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 21895 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2010 13:49:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 19238 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2010 13:49:37 -0000 From: "Joel Zimba" To: Subject: Seeking Accessible Content Developers Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000001cb6c6f$b1d420b0$157c6210$@org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01CB6C51.C732D820" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Actsb7D41Mnchk4FSNOxgJmsjfQBjA== Content-Language: en-us Hello: The Maryland Technology Assistance Program is compiling a directory of developers who build accessible websites. We are frequently asked, by many organizations for references to individuals or companies that are competent in developing websites that comply with web accessibility standards such as Section 508 of the federal Rehabilitation Act, or, Web Content Accessibility Guidelines established by W3c. If you are a developer, or if you know of one, please e-mail contact information to: webaccess at mdtap.org. Please include as much information as possible, such as: name, address, phone, e-mail, homepage URL, related certifications and examples of previous projects. As this type of work can be done from anywhere, feel free to contact us regardless of geographic location. We also welcome organizations of any size, from individuals to companies with large development teams. Some indication of the size of project you are ready to take on will help to more quickly connect you with the proper customer, but is not required. We are a State of Maryland agency so will not be charging for our directory, nor will we be advertising or promoting any specific service. Our goal is to create a resource which will be useful to anyone. If you have ideas or suggestions, please let us know. Also, please forward this e-mail to any interested party, including other mailing lists. Sincerely, Joel Zimba Joel Zimba MD Technology Assistance Program Accessible Content Coordinator (410) 554-9276 jzimba at mdtap.org 2301 Argonne Dr. Baltimore, MD 21218 From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 19:42:19 2010 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:42:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> Message-ID: Hello: My name is Patrick Molloy, and I am a high school senior. If you want a good graphing calculator, check out MathTrax. It's a free download from NASA, and it's fairly user-friendly. Hope this helps, Patrick On 10/15/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Hi, List, > > I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. > I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but > what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would > appreciate the info. > > Best, > > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From mcikeyc at aol.com Fri Oct 15 19:46:11 2010 From: mcikeyc at aol.com (Michelle Clark) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:46:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Help with Phones Message-ID: <201010151946.o9FJkD74002073@imr-ma05.mx.aol.com> Hello Hena, I have used a Panasonic phone of several models successfully as a house/land line for a number of years. They come with Talking Caller ID and voice mail. The voice mail part I do not like but they do not come any other way. They are also cordless. The phone does have a screen installed. I know this is true as sighted persons in my home have a tendency to tell me who is calling before the phone begins to talk. Also, the numbers on the phone are very well defined so there is no problem in dialing. I have purchased these phones from both Radio Shack and Sears. The models change so often, someone giving you a referral for a phone purchased last year may be out of stock. I suggest you try a local vendor and ask for a Talking Panasonic Telephone. I purchased one a few years ago for under 130.00 that had four phones. The last I purchased cost around 100.00 but it only had three phones in the set. I have tried a number of so called Talking Phones and Panasonic has, in my experience, been the best. I wish you much success in your search. Sincerely, Michelle From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Fri Oct 15 20:21:38 2010 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:21:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Help with Phones In-Reply-To: <201010151946.o9FJkD74002073@imr-ma05.mx.aol.com> References: <201010151946.o9FJkD74002073@imr-ma05.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <5CDB7CEBA17C413EB96DE4ECFAA6C3F7@GregsToshiba> Hello, >From my experience I found the phones with talking caller ID to be lacking. The ones I have tried did not have a way to review the calls if you missed them while you were not there. I found that purchasing a seperrate talking caller ID was best for me. Greg W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Clark" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Need Help with Phones > Hello Hena, > > > > I have used a Panasonic phone of several models successfully as a > house/land > line for a number of years. They come with Talking Caller ID and voice > mail. > The voice mail part I do not like but they do not come any other way. They > are also cordless. > > > > The phone does have a screen installed. I know this is true as sighted > persons in my home have a tendency to tell me who is calling before the > phone begins to talk. Also, the numbers on the phone are very well defined > so there is no problem in dialing. > > > > I have purchased these phones from both Radio Shack and Sears. The models > change so often, someone giving you a referral for a phone purchased last > year may be out of stock. I suggest you try a local vendor and ask for a > Talking Panasonic Telephone. I purchased one a few years ago for under > 130.00 that had four phones. The last I purchased cost around 100.00 but > it > only had three phones in the set. > > > > I have tried a number of so called Talking Phones and Panasonic has, in my > experience, been the best. > > I wish you much success in your search. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 22:25:36 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach Dreicer Griego) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:25:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Help with Phones Message-ID: <4cb8d50b.05a8960a.7bed.53fc@mx.google.com> I like our panasonic phones. We have the KXTG6444 with 4 handsets, selling for $147 at amazon.com. They all speak nicely. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Clark" yes, AGC. I have it. It works well. There's also a class at carrolltech.org for AGC. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews Message-ID: Yes, I love Math Trax. I know by email the person at NASA who designed it. The only draw back is that it is Java based, and, consequently, will not work with most screen readers on most 64 bit operating systems. However, if you have a 32 bit OS, it is wonderful. Let me know if you would like more details. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Molloy" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] graphing calculator > Hello: > My name is Patrick Molloy, and I am a high school senior. If you want > a good graphing calculator, check out MathTrax. It's a free download > from NASA, and it's fairly user-friendly. Hope this helps, > Patrick > > On 10/15/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Hi, List, >> >> I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school >> student. >> I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days >> but >> what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I >> would >> appreciate the info. >> >> Best, >> >> Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From haltaf at carrollu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:38:12 2010 From: haltaf at carrollu.edu (Hina) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 21:38:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] need help References: <7A8993A6E295411C92979C22CDA0F820@DB8D43F1> <52B7AAF2-2CC9-47E5-9FFE-72AC9350D6D3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6CA0D135A7DC41EB839A2317753541E8@DB8D43F1> i would highly appreciate it, not sure how much i can afford. thanks. hina. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] need help Greetings, By talking, do you man, with a caller ID and or answering machine. i think you could buy those separate. if there are any phones that have that built in, and talk, i am unaware of any. I don't know how big of a button you want, but i will son be selling, or giving away, my moto Q 9M. it's out od date, but the buttons are a fairly good size i'd think, and it's got mobilespeak already on it. On Oct 14, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Hina wrote: > hi, > is there any land line phone that could be talking? i know there are cell > phones like that. also which cell phone has larger keys and it works > either with talks or mobile speak or any other solution? i need to know > for a friend, thanks. > hina. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/haltaf%40carrollu.edu From spangler.robert at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 15:48:00 2010 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 11:48:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale Message-ID: Hello all, I have a few things for sale. 1. I have a Dell Dymension 3000, 512 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 3.00 GHz with hyperthreading. I am only selling the computer tower itself; I have no extra monitors or other accessories. I'll let this go for $200 or best offer. 2. Romeo Pro 50 Braille Embosser. I do not use it anymore and feel that someone else may get more use out of it. I'll take $1,000 or best offer. 3. I have an old Braille Lite M40 that I'll give for $500 or best offer. It is still in good shape; although, it has not been sent back for maintanence in a while. 4. Franklin Language Master. It's a talking dictionary with other games and activities on it. $200 or best offer. 5. My friend and I are selling Unix shell accounts. If anyone wishes to host a web site, chat server, or whatever just get ahold of me and we can work something out. Please get ahold of me off list if interested in the above items. My email address is: spangler.robert at gmail.com Thanks, Robby -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - SSIPS Committee Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 23:58:45 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 18:58:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <026F46B970364BD59C1BA0574FF82893@GregsToshiba> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> <026F46B970364BD59C1BA0574FF82893@GregsToshiba> Message-ID: ANotehr god one for the computer is called MathTrax. it's really good, and best of all, free. works for both mac and windows. don't know if this has been mentioned yet On Oct 15, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Greg wrote: > Hello, > The only one I know of is for the computer. It is called AGC(audio graphing calculator). I have never seen any like the Texas insturments models. > Greg W. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dezman Jackson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 12:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator > > >> Hi, List, >> >> I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would appreciate the info. >> >> Best, >> >> Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 18:46:21 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:46:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] save as daisy Message-ID: <4CB9F2FD.80904@gmail.com> Hi Do any of you use lotus symphony? Is there a save as daisy plug-in for it or do I have to use ms-office or openoffice if I want to use or save files as daisy audio or daisy textbooks? also do any of you use robobraille.org to turn word documents into daisy books? Josh From dandrews at visi.com Sun Oct 17 00:16:14 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:16:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NFBNET list submission: Everything Blind Web site features information about NFB Message-ID: > >Hi NFB Friends, >In my work to find outlets for publicity about the NFB of >Pennsylvania and the NFB's Performing Arts Division, I have been >particularly impressed with the site Everything Blind, run by Heidi >Hockman and wanted to make sure others were aware of their free >monthly newsletter, "Inspirations," which contains announcements, >profiles along with inspirational quotes and jokes. Heidi has an >open-minded and inclusive approach and believes we can all benefit >from the breadth of experience and diverse backgrounds in the >blindness community. She's always looking for contributions. > >The September issue contains several things related to the NFB including: > * the announcement of the Performing Arts Division's artist > search for the "Sound in Sight Vol. 2" CD > * 2. Information about the book "Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 > with Jaws" by NFB member Toni Fraser (Writers' Division). > * 3. A profile of yours truly. > >Check it out at: >http://www.everythingblind.com/September_2010_Inspirations.html > >And, don't forget to send your content to Heidi at: >Heidi at everythingblind.com > >Donna W. Hill >Head of Media Relations, Performing Arts Division >Media Relations Specialist, NFB of PA >dwhill at epix.net > > > >-- >Read Donna's articles on >Suite 101: >www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill >Ezine Articles: >http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill >American Chronicle: >www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885 > >Connect with Donna on >Twitter: >www.twitter.com/dewhill >LinkedIn: >www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99 >FaceBook: >www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill. > >Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at: >cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill >Apple I-Tunes >phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 > >Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project >Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit >Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind: >www.padnfb.org David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From corbbo at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 02:53:46 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:53:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind students gathering in Falls Church, Virginia in three weeks! Message-ID: Hello! I hope that classes are going well and that you're enjoying this great fall weather! I'm writing to make sure that you've seen the advertisements we have sent about this year's NFB of Virginia state convention, where we'll have a whole slew of activities designed just for students. If not, please see the attached information, and give me a call or e-mail with any questions. We'll be at the Marriott Fairview Park in Falls Church from November 12th through 14th. If you need financial assistance to get to Falls Church, please let me know and we'll work with you and the state affiliate to make your trip happen. Hopefully you can make it to Falls Church! Corbb O'Connor, President NFB of Virginia Student Division 202-684-6130 // corbbo at gmail.com // 847-219-3654 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2010 Conv Pre-reg Form.doc Type: application/msword Size: 24064 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2010 Student Track Info.doc Type: application/msword Size: 31232 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2010 Student Track Reg.doc Type: application/msword Size: 30208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 04:50:35 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:50:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: NABS Conference Call for Parents of Blind Students! Message-ID: Attention All Parents! Not sure about how your blind child is going to tackle classes such as Biology or Physics? Ever been curious about what majors and specialization blind individuals have had in the past? Do you believe that careers and learning about fields such as Science, Technology, Engineering and Math- (STEM), are “too difficult” or “dangerous” for your blind child? Do alternative techniques a blind person may use in such fields just baffle you? If any of the above apply to you- Please attend the Membership phone call, presented by the Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students. We are going to cover concerns, techniques, and general information about how blind students can participate on equal terms with their sighted peers, especially in STEM fields. Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010 When: 6:00 pm EST Where: NABS conference line- (712)775-7100 Code: 257963#. Why: TO learn and network with other parents of blind children and blind students who have experiences navigating through the STEM fields for the blind. Our special guest speaker, Arielle Silverman earned her Bachelor’s degree from Arizona State University in Biology. She will offer a very distinct perspective on how to navigate through what can be perceived as the very turbulent waters of STEM. Different opportunity, techniques, strategies and concepts will be discussed during the call. We look forward to talking with you! Kindest Regards, Membership Committee, National Association of Blind Students -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dandrews at visi.com Sun Oct 17 15:21:39 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:21:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB of California Convention Message-ID: National Federation of the Blind of California Annual Convention Agenda October 21-24, 2010 Crowne Plaza, Irvine, CA “Six Dots Can Illuminate the World” A Campaign for Braille Education Mission Statement: The goal of the National Federation of the Blind is the complete integration of the blind into society on a basis of equality. This objective includes the removal of legal, economic, and social discrimination and the education of the public to new, and more accurate, concepts concerning blindness. It means the right of the blind to work along with their sighted peers in the professions, skilled trades, and regular occupations. Mary Willows, President National Federation of the Blind of California 39481 Gallaudet Dr. Apt # 127 Fremont, CA 94538 Phone: (510) 248-0100 Toll Free: (877) 558-6524 Web Site - www.sixdots.org Convention Information Registration (Mezzanine Level ) Fee - $15.00. Co-chairpersons: Tiffany Manosh and Ever Lee Hairston. Convention Attendees All those attending their first NFB of California convention are invited to stop at the literature table in the registration area Friday afternoon to pick up a first-timer's ribbon and to have their names entered for a special door prize drawing. Door Prizes Door prizes should be labeled in Braille and print on a 3 x 5 card stating the value, the donor or chapter. Turn in door prizes to either Robert Stigile or Jana Littrell. Banquet – Catalina I, II, and III - $35 Diabetes Action Network Luncheon – Avalon III - $25 Chapter Interaction Breakfast – Avalon Ballroom - $15 “Blind, Sealed, and Delivered, I’m Yours” A play presented by the Diamond Club - Catalina III - $10 Kids Camp - San Clemente - $10 There will be a few meal tickets available at the Registration Table for those who did not purchase one in advance. They will be sold on a first come, first serve basis. Hotel Information The Crowne Plaza front door faces Von Karman Avenue. When you walk in the front door, the gift shop is on the right. The front desk is on the left. From the front door, walk straight, about twenty feet to find the elevators. From the front door, walk forward approximately five feet and make a right, enter the hallway that leads to the Paradise Restaurant. Go straight ahead for approximately 30 feet, and on the left will be the restrooms, and on the right side just before the restaurant, will be a doorway to the Parking lot. Dog guide users, exit this door for the relief area­the grassy area is on the right. The receptacle will be at the end of the grassy area before entering the parking lot. To use the stairs to get to the mezzanine level, turn into the restaurant hallway for about fifteen feet and the stairs are on the right. Once at the top of the stairs, convention registration is on the right. Walk straight ahead to the meeting rooms. Catalina III comes first where the board of directors will meet. Next, Catalina II is the exhibit room. From the elevator alcove, turn left to the registration area, then left again to the meeting rooms. Avalon and San Clemente rooms are to the right when you exit the elevator alcove. Exhibits The Exhibit Hall (Catalina II) will be open Friday October 22, 2010 from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M. Please stop by. Visit with the vendors and see their products which are designed to assist blind people to be independent. There will be a table in the Exhibit Hall where you can purchase Whozit Polo Shirts and Socks. Free NFB Literature will also be available at the table. Drawing Tickets Drawing tickets will be available for purchase throughout the convention. The drawings that will be held at the banquet are: Parents of Blind Children - ($5.00 apiece or 3 for $10.00) for a gourmet food basket, tactile quilt with Braille dots on it, and a spa basket; Netbook - ($5.00 apiece or 3 for $10.00). Thursday October 21, 2010 4:00 P.M. – 5:30 P.M. – NFB of California convention registration – Mezzanine Level 6:00 P.M. – 7:30 P.M. – Board of Directors Meeting – Open to the public - Catalina III 7:30 P.M. – 9:00 P.M. - WII Nintendo Game Tournament. Come join the fun. Catalina III Federationists will attempt to outscore each other in virtual games such as bowling, golf, and other sports. Friday, October 22, 2010 8:00 A.M. – 12:00 P.M. – Registration – Mezzanine Level 9:00 A.M. – 9:00 P.M. – Exhibits – Catalina II 9:00 A.M. – 10:30 A.M. – Resolutions Committee, Chairperson, Jim Willows – Catalina III 10:30 A.M. – 12:00 P.M. – Chapter on Aging, President, Patricia Munson Avalon II and Avalon III 10:30 A.M. – 12:00 P.M. – California Association of Guide Dog Users, (CAGDU) President, Shannon Dillon – Avalon I 1:00 P.M. – 2:00 P.M. – Education Committee, Chairperson, Karen Steele – Avalon I 1:00 P.M. – 2:30 P.M. – Legislation Committee, Co-chairpersons, Angela Fowler and Shannon Dillon – Catalina III 2:00 P.M. – 6:00 P.M. – Registration – Mezzanine Level 2:00 P.M. – 3:00 P.M. – Library Committee, Chairperson, Joy Stigile – Avalon II and III 2:30 P.M. – California Association of Blind Students (CABS) Registration – Catalina III 3:00 P.M. – 5:00 P.M. – CABS Business Seminar and Business Meeting, President, Angela Fowler – Catalina III 4:45 P.M. – 9:15 P.M. – NFB Kids Camp (Child Care) – San Clemente 5:00 P.M. – California Parents of Blind Children – Registration – Avalon II and III 5:00 P.M. – 7:00 P.M. – Parents of Blind Children Meet and Greet, President, Kathleen Church – Avalon II and III 5:00 P.M. – 6:00 P.M. – California Orientation Center for the Blind Alumni Association Inc., a statewide chapter of the NFB of California. President, David Chan – Avalon I 7:00 P.M. – 8:30 P.M. – Diamond Club presents “Blind, Sealed, and Delivered, I’m Yours”, an original play written and directed by Rochelle Houston. A young blind woman, recently divorced, looking for love again – Catalina III 8:30 P.M. – 10:00 P.M. – California Parents of Blind Children Business Meeting President, Kathleen Church – Avalon II and III Saturday, October 23, 2010 8:00 A.M. – 8:45 A.M. – Registration – Mezzanine Level 8:30 A.M. – 12:15 P.M. and 1:45 P.M. – 5:15 P.M. and 6:15 P.M. – 9:15 P.M. Kids Camp – San Clemente 9:00 A.M. – General Session call to order, President, Mary Willows, Catalina II and III 9:05 A.M. – Invocation – Rochelle Houston, President – The Pathfinder Chapter Pledge of Allegiance – Pam Chase, President, North Riverside County Chapter 9:10 A.M. – National Anthem – Nancy Angwin, member, Central Valley Chapter NFB Pledge – Angela Fowler, President, California Association of Blind Students. NFB PLEDGE: I pledge to participate actively in the efforts of the National Federation of the Blind; to achieve equality, opportunity and security for the blind; to support the policies and programs of the Federation and to abide by its constitution. 9:15 A.M. – Welcoming Comments – Mayor Sukhee Kang, Mayor, Irvine, California 9:20 A.M. – National Report – Dr. Fredric Schroeder, First Vice President, National Federation of the Blind 9:45 A.M. – “The Education of Blind Children in America, a National Perspective”, Stuart Wittenstein, Ed.D., President, Council of Schools for the Blind (COSB). 10:10 A.M. – Pre-Authorize Check (PAC) Plan Report – Geraldine Croom, Co-Chairperson, PAC Plan Committee 10:15 A.M. – Youth Panel “The Fifth Generation Benefits from NFB Youth Programs”, Moderator: Ever Lee Hairston, Second Vice President, NFB of California. Panelists: Henry (Hoby) Wedler, Instructor, Junior Science Academy, 2010; Serena Olsen, California Youth Slam Coordinator; Kia Vaca, Counselor/Instructor, Summer Training and Employment Program (STEP) Louisiana Center for the Blind. 10:55 A.M. – Questions from the Audience 11:00 A.M. – Turning the Page on Library Services, Henry C. Chang, Ph.D., Director of Library Services, Braille Institute, Library Services, Recipient National Medal for Museum and Library Services. 11:20 A.M. – Challenging America to learn Braille – Leslie E. Stocker, President Braille Institute of America. 11:40 A.M. – Having Fun at Junior Blind – Jay Allen, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, Junior Blind, Los Angeles. 12:00 P.M. – Adjourn 12:15 P.M. – 1:45 P.M. – Registration, Mezzanine Level 12:15 P.M. – 1:45 P.M. – Diabetes Action Network Lunch and Business Meeting, President, Joy Stigile – Avalon II and III 2:00 P.M. – Call to Order – Catalina II and III 2:05 P.M. – Presidential Report; President, Mary Willows, NFB of California 2:30 P.M. – Washington Seminar 2011, Tiffany Manosh, Coordinator, Washington Seminar, Member Board of Directors, NFB of California. 2:40 P.M. – Educating our Blind Children in California with a Full Continuum Of Program Options, – Linda Wyatt, Ed.D, Consultant, Special Education Division, California Department of Education. 3:00 P.M. – California Department of Rehabilitation Panel – “Beyond SB 105, Where Do We Go From Here?”. Panel Moderator, Bryan Bashin, Member Blind Advisory Committee. Panelists: Joe Zavier, Deputy Director, Specialized Services Division; Catharine Bailes, District Administrator, Blind Field Services; Deb Meyer, Program Manager, Business Enterprise Program and all Supervising Staff from the Blind Field Services Division. This topic will be presented in a respectful and yet questioning forum. Clients are invited to submit questions in advance so the Supervisors can address the needs of clients. 3:55 P.M. – Reports and Resolutions 4:00 P.M. – Living in the Working World Panel. Moderator: Robert Stigile, First Vice President, NFB of California. Panelists: Bryan Quintana, Middle School Teacher, San Jose, California; Adam Shaible, National Orientation and Mobility Certification (NOMC) World Access for the Blind, Long Beach, California; Jason Holloway, Collections Representative, Internal Revenue Service, Oakland, California; Melissa Haney, Rehabilitation Counselor. 5:00 P.M. – Adjourn BANQUET EVENT and SCHOLARSHIPS 6:30 P.M. – No host bar – Mezzanine Level Foyer. Visit with old friends and make some new ones while you wait for the Catalina Ballroom to be opened for the banquet. BANQUET 7:00 P.M. - Mistress of Ceremonies – Ms. Ever Lee Hairston, Second Vice-President, NFB of California and recently elected member of the National Board of Directors. Invocation – Kia Vaca. Keynote Speaker – Dr. Fredric Schroeder, First Vice-President, National Federation of the Blind. Presentation of Charters – President, Mary Willows Presentation of Scholarships.- Chairperson, Karen Steele Auction. After the banquet party. The California Association of Blind Students will host a Karaoke party until 10:30 P.M. All are invited to join the fun. Sunday, October 24, 2010 7:30 A.M. – Chapter Interaction breakfast – Robert Stigile, First Vice-President, National Federation of the Blind of California – Avalon Ballroom 9:00 A.M. – Call to Order – President, Mary Willows – Catalina II and III 9:05 A.M. – Invocation – Geraldine Croom, Member Board of Directors, NFB of California, President, Guiding Lights Chapter. 9:10 A.M. – “The Future is Ours” – Michael Hingson, President, The Michael Hingson Group Inc., “Speaking With Vision”. 9:30 A.M. – “Why the NFB?” – meet Rick Watson, Nancy Angwin and Veshon Khan and hear their stories about how they found the NFB of California. 9:45 A.M. – “Braille Literacy Through Tactile Maps” Lisamaria Martinez, Director, Community Affairs, San Francisco, Lighthouse for the Blind. 10:00 A.M. – Resolutions – Chairperson, Jim Willows 10:15 A.M. – Elections – This year the five Officer positions are up for election. They are: President, Mary Willows; First Vice President, Robert Stigile; Second Vice President, Ever Lee Hairston; Secretary, Shannon Dillon; Treasurer, Gail Paulson; and three members of the Board of Directors. Lisamaria Martinez, Tiffany Manosh, and Melissa Haney. 10:35 A.M. – “The Blind Driver Challenge – On to Daytona” – Ever Lee Hairston, Member Board of Directors, National Federation of the Blind. 10:50 A.M. – Newsline for the Blind – Jason Holloway, California Newsline Coordinator, Member Board of Directors NFB of California. 11:05 A.M. – Financial Report 11:30 A.M. – Adjourn Thank you to all of the people who helped make this convention a success. A special thanks to our sponsors: the Michael Hingson Group Inc. 2010 Committee Chairpersons Convention Coordinator: Robert Stigile Registration: Tiffany Manosh and Ever Lee Hairston Scholarship Committee: Karen Steele Exhibits: Joy Stigile Race for Independence: Tina Thomas Fundraising: Gail Paulson Library: Joy Stigile Education: Karen Steele Legislation: Shannon Dillon and Angela Fowler Resolutions: Jim Willows Pre-Authorized Check Plan: Geraldine Croom and Jim Willows Washington Seminar: Tiffany Manosh Membership: Lisamaria Martinez Door Prizes: Jana Littrell and Robert Stigile Youth Slam: Serena Olsen Newsline: Jason Holloway David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Sun Oct 17 15:29:21 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:29:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Thruoureyes With Joe Ruffalo October 27th, 2010 Message-ID: > >On Wednesday, October 27 at 8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our Eyes host, Joe >Ruffalo will interview Patti Chang, national board member, president >of the Illinois affiliate and chair of the NFB scholarship program >for 2011. They will discuss and outline the procedures, policies, >objectives, responsibilities and advantages of applying for this worthy award. >How to watch and listen to Thru Our Eyes/Kindly log onto >www.thruoureyes.org and for Jaws users, >kindly log onto m.thruoureyes.org. > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From corbbo at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 15:43:01 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:43:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind students gathering in Falls Church, Virginia in three weeks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Elizabeth, I'll write you back off list. If some of you are interested in coming, please write me off list. Thanks! On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Elizabeth wrote: > Hi Corb, > > > > It looks as though you have put in a lot of time and energy into planning a > whole slue of events for students for your upcoming state convention. I am > curious though, what kind of assistance is available for students to > participate in these activities if they do not live in Virginia? I am > interested in rejuvenating our student division here in Michigan, and I > would love to attend your state convention to pick up some ideas to bring > back to my home state. > > > > The Amtrak fare does not seem to be too expensive at the moment, but I know > I could definitely not afford a room for the weekend on my own. Do you know > of anyone who might be looking for a roommate? Also, if I do end up going to > your state convention, could you tell me how I could get from the Amtrak > station in Washington D.C. to the hotel? And as far as meals are concerned, > will there be any vegetarian options available? > > > > Thanks, > > Elizabeth > > > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:53:46 -0400 > From: corbbo at gmail.com > To: vabs at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind students gathering in Falls Church, Virginia in > three weeks! > > Hello! > > I hope that classes are going well and that you're enjoying this great > fall weather! I'm writing to make sure that you've seen the > advertisements we have sent about this year's NFB of Virginia state > convention, where we'll have a whole slew of activities designed just > for students. If not, please see the attached information, and give me > a call or e-mail with any questions. We'll be at the Marriott Fairview > Park in Falls Church from November 12th through 14th. If you need > financial assistance to get to Falls Church, please let me know and > we'll work with you and the state affiliate to make your trip happen. > > Hopefully you can make it to Falls Church! > > Corbb O'Connor, President > NFB of Virginia Student Division > 202-684-6130 // corbbo at gmail.com // 847-219-3654 > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Sun Oct 17 17:21:07 2010 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:21:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind students gathering in Falls Church, Virginia in three weeks! In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: yes, that would be great as I meant for my message to be sent off list anyway. Oh well, I guess computers sometimes have a mind of their own I guess. Anyway, I look forward to speaking with you soon off list. Elizabeth > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:43:01 -0400 > From: corbbo at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind students gathering in Falls Church, Virginia in three weeks! > > Elizabeth, I'll write you back off list. If some of you are interested > in coming, please write me off list. > > Thanks! > > On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Elizabeth wrote: > > Hi Corb, > > > > > > > > It looks as though you have put in a lot of time and energy into planning a > > whole slue of events for students for your upcoming state convention. I am > > curious though, what kind of assistance is available for students to > > participate in these activities if they do not live in Virginia? I am > > interested in rejuvenating our student division here in Michigan, and I > > would love to attend your state convention to pick up some ideas to bring > > back to my home state. > > > > > > > > The Amtrak fare does not seem to be too expensive at the moment, but I know > > I could definitely not afford a room for the weekend on my own. Do you know > > of anyone who might be looking for a roommate? Also, if I do end up going to > > your state convention, could you tell me how I could get from the Amtrak > > station in Washington D.C. to the hotel? And as far as meals are concerned, > > will there be any vegetarian options available? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Elizabeth > > > > > > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:53:46 -0400 > > From: corbbo at gmail.com > > To: vabs at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind students gathering in Falls Church, Virginia in > > three weeks! > > > > Hello! > > > > I hope that classes are going well and that you're enjoying this great > > fall weather! I'm writing to make sure that you've seen the > > advertisements we have sent about this year's NFB of Virginia state > > convention, where we'll have a whole slew of activities designed just > > for students. If not, please see the attached information, and give me > > a call or e-mail with any questions. We'll be at the Marriott Fairview > > Park in Falls Church from November 12th through 14th. If you need > > financial assistance to get to Falls Church, please let me know and > > we'll work with you and the state affiliate to make your trip happen. > > > > Hopefully you can make it to Falls Church! > > > > Corbb O'Connor, President > > NFB of Virginia Student Division > > 202-684-6130 // corbbo at gmail.com // 847-219-3654 > > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 21:05:50 2010 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 15:05:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators In-Reply-To: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> Message-ID: <27807A3E3F5243D2A0AB15B28C84A4A8@BECKY1> Hello All, Where would I find a scientific calculator and how much does it go for? If someone could let me know off list I would appreciate. My email is beckyasabo at gmail.com Sincerely Becky sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dezman Jackson Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator Hi, List, I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would appreciate the info. Best, Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c om From freethaught at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 03:05:21 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:05:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators In-Reply-To: <27807A3E3F5243D2A0AB15B28C84A4A8@BECKY1> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> <27807A3E3F5243D2A0AB15B28C84A4A8@BECKY1> Message-ID: Hello Becky, I am responding on list since I hope the message is also useful to others. I am currently using an Orion t-36 talking scientific calculator. You get the functionality of the TI-86 Scientific calculator in a talking unit for about $300. I am not sure on the price, but a simple call to American Printing House for the Blind will reveal the correct cost of the thing. Hope this helps. Antonio On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:05 PM, becky sabo wrote: > Hello All, > Where would I find a scientific calculator and how much does it go for? > If someone could let me know off list I would appreciate. My email is > beckyasabo at gmail.com > Sincerely > Becky sabo > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:30 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator > > Hi, List, > > I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. > I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but > what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would > appreciate the info. > > Best, > > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 03:09:37 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:09:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight Message-ID: <95E5B53FDE6549E9B378021DEFC20EAF@D3DTZP41> Hello: I just watched CSI Miami tonight (Oct. 17). They had a blind character on as a witness who heard enough evidence that he was able to help catch the bad guy. It is possible to watch the show online by going to www.cbs.com. Enjoy! Regards, robert From hypoplexer at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 03:15:27 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:15:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators Message-ID: <4cbbbbe5.d16fe50a.4199.ffffacaa@mx.google.com> Hi, Someone posted on here a few days ago about a free computer program called MathTrax. I think they said something about it being from NASA. Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: Antonio Guimaraes Cool thanks! I've seen one with a blind teen who helps find the man that is being searched for. Maybe this is the one? Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" , "Riccobono, Mark" , "Rovig, Lorraine" References: Message-ID: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> Hi Alex, I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned due to how it is designed and made. If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at (515) 281-1333 Antonio On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: > Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some > rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, > cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. > > While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those > $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go > to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which > sell the following? > > Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? > > If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For > example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped > identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; > when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in > very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a > telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. > > Thanks for reading, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 04:35:29 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:35:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight References: <4cbbbdd9.896ae50a.4ee8.614a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5B21DAC555814C79ABF90F1EE682CA3C@D3DTZP41> Hello: In this episode, the blind character is male. He helps the CSI find the people who kidnapped his girlfriend. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Montour" To: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:23 PM Subject: re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > Cool thanks! I've seen one with a blind teen who helps find the man that > is being searched for. Maybe this is the one? > > Danni > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind children\)" > , "Riccobono, Mark" , "Rovig, > Lorraine" Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:09:37 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > > Hello: > > I just watched CSI Miami tonight (Oct. 17). They had a blind > character on as a witness who heard enough evidence that he was able to > help catch the bad guy. It is possible to watch the show online by going > to > www.cbs.com. Enjoy! > > Regards, > > robert > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 04:40:40 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:40:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7C7EDEB7-FFA9-461F-B9CA-CC8AF1C7A4E4@gmail.com> I also cary a telescoping cain in my purse when I take my dog working in case one of us, mostly me blunders or if I need to get my balance back as I ingured myself last year. I've seen those canes and don't like them much as they are too heavy. On Oct 17, 2010, at 8:23 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. > > I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned due to how it is designed and made. > > If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. > > I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at > > (515) 281-1333 > > Antonio > > > > On > > > Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: > >> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >> >> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >> sell the following? >> >> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? >> >> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >> >> Thanks for reading, >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From hypoplexer at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 04:50:09 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 00:50:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight Message-ID: <4cbbd217.a26fe50a.586c.ffffd00c@mx.google.com> Hi, I watched it, and it. Thanks. Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" , "Riccobono, Mark" , "Rovig, Lorraine" Is it just me, or is the CBS web site a pain to navigate? Even worse is the video player for the episode. So, I didn't get to finish it. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi, > I watched it, and it. Thanks. > Danni > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:35:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > Hello: > In this episode, the blind character is male. He helps the > CSI find the > people who kidnapped his girlfriend. > Regards, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Danielle Montour" To: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National > Association of > Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:23 PM > Subject: re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > Cool thanks! I've seen one with a blind teen who helps find the > man that > is being searched for. Maybe this is the one? > Danni > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind > children\)" > , "Riccobono, Mark" , > "Rovig, > Lorraine" Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:09:37 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > Hello: > I just watched CSI Miami tonight (Oct. 17). They had a > blind > character on as a witness who heard enough evidence that he was > able to > help catch the bad guy. It is possible to watch the show online > by going > to > www.cbs.com. Enjoy! > Regards, > robert > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Oct 18 05:07:09 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:07:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators References: <4cbbbbe5.d16fe50a.4199.ffffacaa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9FACA7E0E47B41B8836D1A6317565741@stanford.edu> Yes...that was me. However, Math Trax is only for graphing. Besides doing the computations that are necessary to process the equation input, it does not do any actual calculations. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Montour" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] scientific calculators > Hi, > Someone posted on here a few days ago about a free computer program called > MathTrax. I think they said something about it being from NASA. > > Danni > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Antonio Guimaraes To: beckyasabo at gmail.com,National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:05:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] scientific calculators > > Hello Becky, > > I am responding on list since I hope the message is also useful to others. > > I am currently using an Orion t-36 talking scientific calculator. You get > the functionality of the TI-86 Scientific calculator in a talking unit for > about $300. I am not sure on the price, but a simple call to American > Printing House for the Blind will reveal the correct cost of the thing. > > Hope this helps. > > Antonio > On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:05 PM, becky sabo wrote: > > Hello All, > Where would I find a scientific calculator and how much does it go for? > If someone could let me know off list I would appreciate. My email is > beckyasabo at gmail.com > Sincerely > Becky sabo > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Dezman Jackson > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:30 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator > > Hi, List, > > I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school > student. > I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days > but > what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I > would > appreciate the info. > > Best, > > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasab > o%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaug > ht%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jbahm at pcdesk.net Mon Oct 18 05:11:56 2010 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:11:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators In-Reply-To: References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> <27807A3E3F5243D2A0AB15B28C84A4A8@BECKY1> Message-ID: <4CBBD71C.4000506@pcdesk.net> Howdy folks, I've been wondering something. What do these dedicated scientific calculators, which retail for a few hundred bucks for an accessible model, do that I can't do with either the windows calculator in scientific mode, Microsoft Excel, or a similar solution under another operating system? Seems to me these do the same sorts of things, and they don't cost extra. Plus you get the added benefit of being able to paste the results of your calculation directly into something like an exam paper or homework write-up. The dedicated devices also tend to have precision issues if the numbers get too large, or arbitrarily too close to 0. There are software programs, some of them free, which don't suffer from this shortcoming. I can't see the benefit of spending $300 for something like this, unless you just really want a dedicated device to use as a calculator for some reason. Someone care to set me straight here? -- They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: $ ar m God ar: creating God There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God really does exist! Joseph C. Lininger, On 10/17/2010 9:05 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hello Becky, > > I am responding on list since I hope the message is also useful to others. > > I am currently using an Orion t-36 talking scientific calculator. You get the functionality of the TI-86 Scientific calculator in a talking unit for about $300. I am not sure on the price, but a simple call to American Printing House for the Blind will reveal the correct cost of the thing. > > Hope this helps. > > Antonio > On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:05 PM, becky sabo wrote: > >> Hello All, >> Where would I find a scientific calculator and how much does it go for? >> If someone could let me know off list I would appreciate. My email is >> beckyasabo at gmail.com >> Sincerely >> Becky sabo >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Dezman Jackson >> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:30 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator >> >> Hi, List, >> >> I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. >> I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but >> what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would >> appreciate the info. >> >> Best, >> >> Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net From spangler.robert at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 05:14:06 2010 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 01:14:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Antonio, That is amazing that you've had a cane last that long. How often do you replace the tip? I believe that cane uses the same type of tip that the NFB straight canes do. Thanks, Robby On 10/17/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a > little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a > straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you > want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant > without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. > > I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned > due to how it is designed and made. > > If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same > product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. > > I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at > > (515) 281-1333 > > Antonio > > > > On > > > Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: > >> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >> >> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >> sell the following? >> >> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? >> >> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >> >> Thanks for reading, >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - SSIPS Committee Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor From hypoplexer at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 05:17:39 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 01:17:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators Message-ID: <4cbbd88a.4276e50a.51fb.3dbc@mx.google.com> O ok, my apologies. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" ; References: <20101018050626.324.51190@ip-10-122-45-223.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <20101017223330.20793kfnwics5pgq@webmail.pdx.edu> Agreed. I try to watch Medium on there sometimes (you can't be surprised about that choice) and that player kinda sucks. I will try to watch the CSI though when I need a study break! Chrys Quoting Jedi : > Is it just me, or is the CBS web site a pain to navigate? Even worse > is the video player for the episode. So, I didn't get to finish it. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hi, >> I watched it, and it. Thanks. > >> Danni > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jaquiss" > To: > Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:35:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > >> Hello: > >> In this episode, the blind character is male. He helps the >> CSI find the >> people who kidnapped his girlfriend. > >> Regards, > >> Robert > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Danielle Montour" > To: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National >> Association of >> Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:23 PM >> Subject: re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > > >> Cool thanks! I've seen one with a blind teen who helps find the >> man that >> is being searched for. Maybe this is the one? > >> Danni > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jaquiss" > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind >> children\)" >> , "Riccobono, Mark" , >> "Rovig, >> Lorraine" > Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:09:37 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > >> Hello: > >> I just watched CSI Miami tonight (Oct. 17). They had a >> blind >> character on as a witness who heard enough evidence that he was >> able to >> help catch the bad guy. It is possible to watch the show online >> by going >> to >> www.cbs.com. Enjoy! > >> Regards, > >> robert >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >> r%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >> r%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cbuckley%40pdx.edu > > http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 12:51:38 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 07:51:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight References: <20101018050626.324.51190@ip-10-122-45-223.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <69C8FF6521D44492940E8EC222B8D53D@D3DTZP41> Hello: I agree the media player is difficult to use. I tried to use it to watch a CSI episode and my wife ended up helping me with it. Regards, robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > Is it just me, or is the CBS web site a pain to navigate? Even worse is > the video player for the episode. So, I didn't get to finish it. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hi, >> I watched it, and it. Thanks. > >> Danni > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jaquiss" > To: > Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:35:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > >> Hello: > >> In this episode, the blind character is male. He helps the >> CSI find the >> people who kidnapped his girlfriend. > >> Regards, > >> Robert > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Danielle Montour" > To: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National >> Association of >> Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:23 PM >> Subject: re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > > >> Cool thanks! I've seen one with a blind teen who helps find the >> man that >> is being searched for. Maybe this is the one? > >> Danni > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jaquiss" > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind >> children\)" >> , "Riccobono, Mark" , >> "Rovig, >> Lorraine" > Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:09:37 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > >> Hello: > >> I just watched CSI Miami tonight (Oct. 17). They had a >> blind >> character on as a witness who heard enough evidence that he was >> able to >> help catch the bad guy. It is possible to watch the show online >> by going >> to >> www.cbs.com. Enjoy! > >> Regards, > >> robert >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >> r%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >> r%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From freethaught at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 13:27:30 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:27:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <690C4287-F589-41B3-B7A9-2529C3A896EF@gmail.com> I couldn't accurately tel you how often I change a ip on the cane, but you're right in saying the Iowa cane takes an NFB tip. Actually if I am not mistaken, and memory serves me right, Iowa or their suppliers provide what everyone calls the NFB tip. Antoniko On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Robert Spangler wrote: > Hello Antonio, > > That is amazing that you've had a cane last that long. How often do > you replace the tip? I believe that cane uses the same type of tip > that the NFB straight canes do. > > Thanks, > Robby > > On 10/17/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hi Alex, >> >> I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a >> little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a >> straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you >> want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant >> without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. >> >> I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned >> due to how it is designed and made. >> >> If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same >> product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. >> >> I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at >> >> (515) 281-1333 >> >> Antonio >> >> >> >> On >> >> >> Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: >> >>> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >>> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >>> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >>> >>> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >>> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >>> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >>> sell the following? >>> >>> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? >>> >>> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >>> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >>> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >>> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >>> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >>> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >>> >>> Thanks for reading, >>> Alex >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - SSIPS Committee > Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team > Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 13:28:53 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:28:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators In-Reply-To: <4CBBD71C.4000506@pcdesk.net> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> <27807A3E3F5243D2A0AB15B28C84A4A8@BECKY1> <4CBBD71C.4000506@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <72F9BC30-2005-4ADD-B52C-823A1A5589EB@gmail.com> I'm glad you set us straight, since there are solutions other than dedicated stand alone devices. Thank you, Antonio On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:11 AM, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Howdy folks, > I've been wondering something. What do these dedicated scientific > calculators, which retail for a few hundred bucks for an accessible > model, do that I can't do with either the windows calculator in > scientific mode, Microsoft Excel, or a similar solution under another > operating system? Seems to me these do the same sorts of things, and > they don't cost extra. Plus you get the added benefit of being able to > paste the results of your calculation directly into something like an > exam paper or homework write-up. The dedicated devices also tend to have > precision issues if the numbers get too large, or arbitrarily too close > to 0. There are software programs, some of them free, which don't suffer > from this shortcoming. I can't see the benefit of spending $300 for > something like this, unless you just really want a dedicated device to > use as a calculator for some reason. Someone care to set me straight here? > -- > They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: > $ ar m God > ar: creating God > There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God > really does exist! > Joseph C. Lininger, > On 10/17/2010 9:05 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> Hello Becky, >> >> I am responding on list since I hope the message is also useful to others. >> >> I am currently using an Orion t-36 talking scientific calculator. You get the functionality of the TI-86 Scientific calculator in a talking unit for about $300. I am not sure on the price, but a simple call to American Printing House for the Blind will reveal the correct cost of the thing. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Antonio >> On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:05 PM, becky sabo wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> Where would I find a scientific calculator and how much does it go for? >>> If someone could let me know off list I would appreciate. My email is >>> beckyasabo at gmail.com >>> Sincerely >>> Becky sabo >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Dezman Jackson >>> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:30 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator >>> >>> Hi, List, >>> >>> I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school student. >>> I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days but >>> what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I would >>> appreciate the info. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 13:30:44 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:30:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight In-Reply-To: <5B21DAC555814C79ABF90F1EE682CA3C@D3DTZP41> References: <4cbbbdd9.896ae50a.4ee8.614a@mx.google.com> <5B21DAC555814C79ABF90F1EE682CA3C@D3DTZP41> Message-ID: <516DE3AEBF074E109388CB9A40ABF8BA@Rufus> Covert Affairs is an interesting series about the CIA featuring a blind character, and surprisingly, it's well done. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:35 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight Hello: In this episode, the blind character is male. He helps the CSI find the people who kidnapped his girlfriend. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Montour" To: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:23 PM Subject: re: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > Cool thanks! I've seen one with a blind teen who helps find the man that > is being searched for. Maybe this is the one? > > Danni > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind children\)" > , "Riccobono, Mark" , "Rovig, > Lorraine" Date sent: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:09:37 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind character on CSI Miami tonight > > Hello: > > I just watched CSI Miami tonight (Oct. 17). They had a blind > character on as a witness who heard enough evidence that he was able to > help catch the bad guy. It is possible to watch the show online by going > to > www.cbs.com. Enjoy! > > Regards, > > robert > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 13:44:54 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:44:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: <690C4287-F589-41B3-B7A9-2529C3A896EF@gmail.com> References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com> <690C4287-F589-41B3-B7A9-2529C3A896EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52ECD49A-514E-4275-987B-F08DFD958D58@gmail.com> Antonio, you are correct; the Iowa cane uses the same tips as the NFB cane. I have put my Iowa cane through lots of bumps, collisions and near car crushes. It has been in almost perfect condition since 2007. :) Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > I couldn't accurately tel you how often I change a ip on the cane, but you're right in saying the Iowa cane takes an NFB tip. > > Actually if I am not mistaken, and memory serves me right, Iowa or their suppliers provide what everyone calls the NFB tip. > > Antoniko > On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Robert Spangler wrote: > >> Hello Antonio, >> >> That is amazing that you've had a cane last that long. How often do >> you replace the tip? I believe that cane uses the same type of tip >> that the NFB straight canes do. >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> On 10/17/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a >>> little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a >>> straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you >>> want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant >>> without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. >>> >>> I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned >>> due to how it is designed and made. >>> >>> If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same >>> product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. >>> >>> I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at >>> >>> (515) 281-1333 >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> >>> >>> On >>> >>> >>> Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >>>> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >>>> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >>>> >>>> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >>>> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >>>> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >>>> sell the following? >>>> >>>> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? >>>> >>>> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >>>> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >>>> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >>>> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >>>> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >>>> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >>>> >>>> Thanks for reading, >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee >> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team >> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 14:03:25 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:03:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com><690C4287-F589-41B3-B7A9-2529C3A896EF@gmail.com> <52ECD49A-514E-4275-987B-F08DFD958D58@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Iowa canes are quite durable. I've had mine for a couple of years, have taken it to hell and back and it's still in good shape. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! > Antonio, you are correct; the Iowa cane uses the same tips as the NFB > cane. I have put my Iowa cane through lots of bumps, collisions and near > car crushes. It has been in almost perfect condition since 2007. :) > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Antonio Guimaraes > wrote: > >> I couldn't accurately tel you how often I change a ip on the cane, but >> you're right in saying the Iowa cane takes an NFB tip. >> >> Actually if I am not mistaken, and memory serves me right, Iowa or their >> suppliers provide what everyone calls the NFB tip. >> >> Antoniko >> On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Robert Spangler wrote: >> >>> Hello Antonio, >>> >>> That is amazing that you've had a cane last that long. How often do >>> you replace the tip? I believe that cane uses the same type of tip >>> that the NFB straight canes do. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> On 10/17/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It >>>> is a >>>> little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in >>>> a >>>> straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if >>>> you >>>> want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant >>>> without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar >>>> thing. >>>> >>>> I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or >>>> warned >>>> due to how it is designed and made. >>>> >>>> If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the >>>> same >>>> product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. >>>> >>>> I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at >>>> >>>> (515) 281-1333 >>>> >>>> Antonio >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On >>>> >>>> >>>> Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >>>>> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >>>>> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >>>>> >>>>> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >>>>> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >>>>> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >>>>> sell the following? >>>>> >>>>> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 >>>>> inches? >>>>> >>>>> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >>>>> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >>>>> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >>>>> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >>>>> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >>>>> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for reading, >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee >>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team >>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 18:35:30 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:35:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] scientific calculators In-Reply-To: <72F9BC30-2005-4ADD-B52C-823A1A5589EB@gmail.com> References: <71181AFABBAE48CBB421C0B24D1423AA@Dezman> <27807A3E3F5243D2A0AB15B28C84A4A8@BECKY1> <4CBBD71C.4000506@pcdesk.net> <72F9BC30-2005-4ADD-B52C-823A1A5589EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Joseph and all, You are right that Excel and other computer programs can do pretty much anything a scientific calculator can do, but I have to say that the stand-alone calculator can be useful for some purposes. I used a Orion TI-36 throughout high school and my first two years of college, and it served me very well. It is perfectly portable and has a long battery life, so I could use it anywhere without needing to be near a computer. This is particularly important for people who do not have laptops, although most braille notetakers do have some form of calculator with more limited functionality. In addition, while scientific calculators are typically allowed on standardized tests (such as SAT and GRE), it is unlikely that ETS will allow a blind test-taker to utilize a computer with various math applications because of test security, so a stand-alone device is a must in those situations. And finally, I personally find it a lot easier to write down the equations, crunch out the numbers on the calculator, and write down the answers in my assignments rather than switching between multiple computer programs! Anyway, although computer programs can take care of the calculation needs of many blind students, I think a scientific calculator can be useful for those taking number-intensive classes and need to do quick calculations on the go, and I would definitely recommend the Orion TI-36 to those who decide to invest in one. Katie On 10/18/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > I'm glad you set us straight, since there are solutions other than dedicated > stand alone devices. > > Thank you, > > Antonio > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:11 AM, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > >> Howdy folks, >> I've been wondering something. What do these dedicated scientific >> calculators, which retail for a few hundred bucks for an accessible >> model, do that I can't do with either the windows calculator in >> scientific mode, Microsoft Excel, or a similar solution under another >> operating system? Seems to me these do the same sorts of things, and >> they don't cost extra. Plus you get the added benefit of being able to >> paste the results of your calculation directly into something like an >> exam paper or homework write-up. The dedicated devices also tend to have >> precision issues if the numbers get too large, or arbitrarily too close >> to 0. There are software programs, some of them free, which don't suffer >> from this shortcoming. I can't see the benefit of spending $300 for >> something like this, unless you just really want a dedicated device to >> use as a calculator for some reason. Someone care to set me straight here? >> -- >> They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: >> $ ar m God >> ar: creating God >> There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God >> really does exist! >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> On 10/17/2010 9:05 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>> Hello Becky, >>> >>> I am responding on list since I hope the message is also useful to >>> others. >>> >>> I am currently using an Orion t-36 talking scientific calculator. You get >>> the functionality of the TI-86 Scientific calculator in a talking unit >>> for about $300. I am not sure on the price, but a simple call to American >>> Printing House for the Blind will reveal the correct cost of the thing. >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> Antonio >>> On Oct 17, 2010, at 5:05 PM, becky sabo wrote: >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> Where would I find a scientific calculator and how much does it go for? >>>> If someone could let me know off list I would appreciate. My email is >>>> beckyasabo at gmail.com >>>> Sincerely >>>> Becky sabo >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Dezman Jackson >>>> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:30 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator >>>> >>>> Hi, List, >>>> >>>> I was recently asked about a graphing calculator for a high school >>>> student. >>>> I know that scientific calculators are pretty easy to come by these days >>>> but >>>> what about those that do graphing? If anyone knows of such a device I >>>> would >>>> appreciate the info. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 21:04:28 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:04:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com><690C4287-F589-41B3-B7A9-2529C3A896EF@gmail.com> <52ECD49A-514E-4275-987B-F08DFD958D58@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43E24A6F-E6E2-4384-8A22-F6244AF0A9AB@gmail.com> Oh maybe I don't remember these canes. I'm thinking of one that split on me during a piano class. No I was not using it to play the piano eather. lol! On Oct 18, 2010, at 7:03 AM, Dezman Jackson wrote: > The Iowa canes are quite durable. I've had mine for a couple of years, have taken it to hell and back and it's still in good shape. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:44 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! > > >> Antonio, you are correct; the Iowa cane uses the same tips as the NFB cane. I have put my Iowa cane through lots of bumps, collisions and near car crushes. It has been in almost perfect condition since 2007. :) >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> >>> I couldn't accurately tel you how often I change a ip on the cane, but you're right in saying the Iowa cane takes an NFB tip. >>> >>> Actually if I am not mistaken, and memory serves me right, Iowa or their suppliers provide what everyone calls the NFB tip. >>> >>> Antoniko >>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Robert Spangler wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Antonio, >>>> >>>> That is amazing that you've had a cane last that long. How often do >>>> you replace the tip? I believe that cane uses the same type of tip >>>> that the NFB straight canes do. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Robby >>>> >>>> On 10/17/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a >>>>> little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a >>>>> straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you >>>>> want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant >>>>> without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. >>>>> >>>>> I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned >>>>> due to how it is designed and made. >>>>> >>>>> If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same >>>>> product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. >>>>> >>>>> I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at >>>>> >>>>> (515) 281-1333 >>>>> >>>>> Antonio >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >>>>>> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >>>>>> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >>>>>> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >>>>>> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >>>>>> sell the following? >>>>>> >>>>>> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >>>>>> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >>>>>> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >>>>>> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >>>>>> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >>>>>> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for reading, >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee >>>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team >>>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 21:58:26 2010 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:58:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! In-Reply-To: <43E24A6F-E6E2-4384-8A22-F6244AF0A9AB@gmail.com> References: <9266EFCA-FB98-44D7-8157-9034BA5B682A@gmail.com><690C4287-F589-41B3-B7A9-2529C3A896EF@gmail.com> <52ECD49A-514E-4275-987B-F08DFD958D58@gmail.com> <43E24A6F-E6E2-4384-8A22-F6244AF0A9AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4cbcc308.4b790e0a.45b1.619e@mx.google.com> The Iowas are scary to me because if that dang screw come out, you can really jack up your cane. Ben -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 14:04 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! Oh maybe I don't remember these canes. I'm thinking of one that split on me during a piano class. No I was not using it to play the piano eather. lol! On Oct 18, 2010, at 7:03 AM, Dezman Jackson wrote: > The Iowa canes are quite durable. I've had mine for a couple of years, have taken it to hell and back and it's still in good shape. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:44 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Running out of canes! > > >> Antonio, you are correct; the Iowa cane uses the same tips as the NFB cane. I have put my Iowa cane through lots of bumps, collisions and near car crushes. It has been in almost perfect condition since 2007. :) >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >> >>> I couldn't accurately tel you how often I change a ip on the cane, but you're right in saying the Iowa cane takes an NFB tip. >>> >>> Actually if I am not mistaken, and memory serves me right, Iowa or their suppliers provide what everyone calls the NFB tip. >>> >>> Antoniko >>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Robert Spangler wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Antonio, >>>> >>>> That is amazing that you've had a cane last that long. How often do >>>> you replace the tip? I believe that cane uses the same type of tip >>>> that the NFB straight canes do. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Robby >>>> >>>> On 10/17/10, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I use an Iowa Cane available from the Iowa Department for the Blind. It is a >>>>> little heavier than the NFB Canes, but also more durable. They come in a >>>>> straight cane only, so having something that folds might be useful if you >>>>> want to hide your blindness, I mean, if you want to be in a restaurant >>>>> without tripping people with your cane on the ground, or some similar thing. >>>>> >>>>> I've had my Iowa cane since 2007, and it barely looks scratched or warned >>>>> due to how it is designed and made. >>>>> >>>>> If you can get your hands on a Nebraska cane, they are essentially the same >>>>> product with a slight Nebraska modification to the wrist band. >>>>> >>>>> I believe you can still call for the Iowa Canes at >>>>> >>>>> (515) 281-1333 >>>>> >>>>> Antonio >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oct 14, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Alexander Castillo wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, it seems that lately my canes have been going through some >>>>>> rough times, such as being dropped into vents, being stepped on, >>>>>> cracking, and as a result, I am slowly but surely running out of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> While looking on the NFB independence market, I noticed that those >>>>>> $10 63 inch telescoping canes are no longer in stock. This was my go >>>>>> to source for quick replaceable canes. Are there other sites which >>>>>> sell the following? >>>>>> >>>>>> Metal tipped, NFB style, carbon fiber or fiberglass canes over 61 inches? >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have other cane suggestions, please feel free to share. For >>>>>> example, I sometimes use a very light 61 inch long, metal tipped >>>>>> identification cane in the same way I would use an NFB long cane; >>>>>> when I need something very light and slim which is great for using in >>>>>> very crowded areas such as bars, clubs, or any place where a >>>>>> telescoping or straight cane might not suit my purposes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for reading, >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail. com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee >>>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team >>>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail. com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail. com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gma il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gm ail.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Oct 19 10:17:23 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:17:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Colorado Association of Blind Students, (CABS), fifty-fifty raffle Message-ID: > >Message: > >The Colorado Association of Blind Students, (CABS), is holding a >fifty-fifty raffle! The proceeds from this Raffle will be used to >support OUR mentoring Program, which allows CABS members to mentor >blind students in the state of Colorado, and at the state school for >the blind. We are selling 1 ticket for $2, and 3 tickets for >$5. The drawing will be held at the Colorado state Convention on >October 30, 2010. > >We offer two convenient ways to purchase tickets. > * You may purchase tickets through PayPal at the following address: > >Colorado.students at gmail.com > >And > >You can send a check or money order to the following address: > >Cabs fifty-fifty Raffle > >Attn: Melissa Green > >2315 9th ave., Apt. 3306 > >Greeley, CO 80631 > >Checks and money orders should be made payable to: Colorado >Asociation of Blind Students. > >If you purchase tickets with a check or money order, please drop me >an email with your name and phone number to let me know that you >have sent money to purchase tickets. This information will be >placed on tickets purchased. You will receive an e-mail or Phone >call, to notify you whin your check or money order is >received, and if you win the drawing. > >Please send your name and phone number to: > >colorado.students at gmail.com, and >place the words "raffle tickets" in the subject line. > >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />Thank you for your support of > >The Colorado Association of Blind Students, (CABS), and our OUR >mentoring Program. > >Sincerely, > >Melissa Green > >CABS First-vice President > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 14:59:13 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:59:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] K sonar from BAT In-Reply-To: References: <6B004DC8CDED4A73A85D3556733C7DE8@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: <2D8E6C0C-19F7-40C5-9285-875DD0F3BAB4@gmail.com> I know a guy that actually uses it all the time. Apparently you just have to learn how to interpret sounds well and it takes lots of time and practice. But I can tell you that by using the thing he is able to recognize things such as grass, walls, tables, chairs etc. For example in a crowded room he can find a table and go toward it. IC On Oct 15, 2010, at 6:39 AM, David Andrews wrote: > Most people don't find it to be that practical or useful. If it was better, it would have caught on -- don't you think?? It has been around for a while! > > Dave > > At 05:32 PM 10/13/2010, you wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> I am curious about the K sonar. Has anyone used it, and is/was it beneficial for you? I love the sound of the idea. Recently, I had to teach a ten-minute lesson in Science about sound, and so I thought it would be neat if sound waves could be used to alert blind folks to obstacles by conceiving a device that could somehow detect sound waves and draw a picture of where sound was not occuring to avoid obstacles. I decided to see if it had already been invented since if I could think of it, it probably had been conceived already. It had, and as usual pertaining to assistive technology, it sounds expensive if New Zealand and US currency are equivalent. Does anyone know of any US distributors of this product, and if so where? Also, if you have one of these devices, where did you purchase from and was the supplier a reputable supplier. Right now, I am just curious and wanting to learn more. I would appreciate it if anyone with information or experience on this is willing to share. The link below is for one company where I found this device. >> http://www.zabonne.com/?action=product&id=10458&category=10049 >> Also, this website gives different places to get the item >> http://www.batforblind.co.nz/distributors.phpRemember, Jesus Loves You. >> Anita > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 20:36:05 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: FCC Seeks Nominations for Membership on Two Emergency Access Advisory Committees Message-ID: <672087.19689.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com>   --- On Tue, 10/19/10, AccessInfo wrote: From: AccessInfo Subject: FCC Seeks Nominations for Membership on Two Emergency Access Advisory Committees To: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 3:24 PM FCC SEEKS NOMINATIONS FOR MEMBERSHIP ON TWO EMERGENCY ACCESS ADVISORY COMMITTEES                                                                                                                                                              The FCC today has released two Public Notices seeking nominations for membership on two new advisory committees, the Emergency Access Advisory Committee (EAAC) and the Video Programming and Emergency Access Advisory Committee (VPEAAC).   The EAAC will conduct a national survey of individuals with disabilities to determine the most effective and efficient technologies and methods by which to enable access to emergency services by individuals with disabilities and will develop and submit to the Commission recommendations to implement such technologies and methods.   For the EAAC, the Commission is seeking nominations of persons with disabilities and advocates associated with organizations representative of persons with disabilities, emergency responder and emergency management representatives, elected and appointed officials of state, local or tribal governments and subject matter experts that are interested in participating on the EAAC.    The VPEAAC will develop recommendations for the provision of closed captioning of Internet programming previously captioned on television, video description of television programming, accessible emergency information for people with vision disabilities, compatibility of accessibility features and new video programming devices, and accessible user interfaces on video programming devices.    For the VPEAAC, the Commission is seeking nominations of persons with disabilities, advocates associated with organizations representative of persons with disabilities and senior citizens, captioning providers, distributors and providers of video programming or national organization representing such distributors, vendors, developer, and manufacturers of systems, facilities, equipment and capabilities for the provision of video programming delivered using Internet protocol or national organizations representing such interests, manufacturers of consumer electronics or information technology equipment or national organizations representing such manufacturers, video programming producers or national organizations representing such producers, representatives of the broadcast television industry or national organizations representing broadcasters, other individuals with appropriate technical and engineering expertise.   Both Committees are being established to implement the provisions of the Twenty-first Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of 2010.   Further details, including instructions on how to nominate committee members, are included in the Public Notices.   - FCC -     From haltaf at carrollu.edu Tue Oct 19 22:18:25 2010 From: haltaf at carrollu.edu (Hina) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:18:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] any suggestion Message-ID: <827FBB76BE084EE093CB3D43358FA7C8@DB8D43F1> hi friends, is anyone familiar with any assistive technology, scripting or any other technology trainings either online or in the state of illinois? i know there is assistive technology institute but it is way too expensive for an average person to consider. any other suggestions? thanks. hina. From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Oct 19 23:11:44 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:11:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta Message-ID: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? Thanks, Nicole From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 23:16:55 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:16:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <01AA67A40C44416C9ABC6FE65E2674FF@D9P3ZND1> Here are the two Captcha solving services I know of: www.Solona.net or there is a plug-in for Firefox called Web Visum www.webvisum.com HTH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "NABS-L" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Capta > Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Oct 20 03:09:04 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:09:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "NABS-L" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Capta > Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 03:18:21 2010 From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:18:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta In-Reply-To: <2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu> <2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> Message-ID: Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen readers, hence the assistance website. Sent from my iPod On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "NABS-L" > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Wed Oct 20 06:07:19 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:07:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> Message-ID: It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible to be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I couldn't understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is discussion about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. For example: what is 1+1 and what is one plus one mean the same thing to a human and would result in 2 or two but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing than it would understanding the math. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the > difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen > readers, hence the assistance website. > > Sent from my iPod > > On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> >> To: "NABS-L" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nicole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Wed Oct 20 14:27:34 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:27:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> Message-ID: <003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is being done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available tactually. I've said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to allow a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able to create a way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and reproduce it both audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing impairments can have full access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of our work with Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't there doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind driver interface but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be doing the same with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible to be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I couldn't understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is discussion about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. For example: what is 1+1 and what is one plus one mean the same thing to a human and would result in 2 or two but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing than it would understanding the math. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the > difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen > readers, hence the assistance website. > > Sent from my iPod > > On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> >> To: "NABS-L" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nicole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 18:21:23 2010 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (autTeal Bloodwortho) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:21:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> <003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently used social networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Good morning everyone, > > And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these > things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is > being > done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available tactually. > I've > said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to > allow > a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able to create a > way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and reproduce it both > audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing impairments can have > full > access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of our work with > Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't > there > doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind driver interface > but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be doing the same > with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because > the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible > to > be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the > most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I > couldn't > understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is > discussion > about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that > only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. > For > example: > what is 1+1 > and > what is one plus one > mean the same thing to a human and would result in > 2 > or two > but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing > than it would understanding the math. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association > of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >> difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen >> readers, hence the assistance website. >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> >>> To: "NABS-L" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nicole >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Wed Oct 20 20:34:51 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:34:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley><003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon everyone, All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled individuals including the deaf-blind. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently used social networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Good morning everyone, > > And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these > things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is > being > done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available tactually. > I've > said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to > allow > a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able to create a > way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and reproduce it both > audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing impairments can have > full > access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of our work with > Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't > there > doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind driver interface > but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be doing the same > with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because > the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible > to > be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the > most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I > couldn't > understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is > discussion > about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that > only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. > For > example: > what is 1+1 > and > what is one plus one > mean the same thing to a human and would result in > 2 > or two > but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing > than it would understanding the math. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association > of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >> difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen >> readers, hence the assistance website. >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> >>> To: "NABS-L" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nicole >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 21:08:25 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 17:08:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta In-Reply-To: <000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley><003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Peter, Let's write a resolution for it. I'll volunteer to help write it with you and anyone else interested. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta Good afternoon everyone, All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled individuals including the deaf-blind. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently used social networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Good morning everyone, > > And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these > things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is > being > done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available tactually. > I've > said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to > allow > a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able to create a > way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and reproduce it both > audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing impairments can have > full > access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of our work with > Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't > there > doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind driver interface > but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be doing the same > with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because > the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible > to > be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the > most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I > couldn't > understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is > discussion > about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that > only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. > For > example: > what is 1+1 > and > what is one plus one > mean the same thing to a human and would result in > 2 > or two > but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing > than it would understanding the math. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association > of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >> difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen >> readers, hence the assistance website. >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> >>> To: "NABS-L" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nicole >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm ahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlamber t1987%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcoli ni%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue 2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo dworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue 2%40satx.rr.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com Thu Oct 21 03:53:14 2010 From: nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com (nickwilcox_2000 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 23:53:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] raffle for the Braille Embosser Message-ID: This is just to let you know that the Ann Arbor Michigan Chapter has decided to cancel This is just to let you know that the Ann Arbor Michigan Chapter has decided to cancel the raffle for the Braille Embosser. Very few people seemed interested and no one has purchased tickets. Nick Wilcox Acting treasure the raffle for he Braille Embosser. Very few people seemed interested and no one has purchased tickets. Nick Wilcox Acting treasure From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Oct 21 04:04:39 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:04:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley><003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <0DA7872239AD47818D41B6F57DE760C3@stanford.edu> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal opinions. I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be accessible all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of making captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is to prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen reader in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what he/she was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure which a way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, I think that it would be better to try to find another security feature. I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Peter, > > Let's write a resolution for it. I'll volunteer to help write it with you > and anyone else interested. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > Good afternoon everyone, > > All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled > individuals > including the deaf-blind. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently > used social > networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Good morning everyone, >> >> And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these >> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is >> being >> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available > tactually. >> I've >> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to >> allow >> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able > to create a >> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and > reproduce it both >> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing > impairments can have >> full >> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of > our work with >> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't >> there >> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind > driver interface >> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be > doing the same >> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot > hack it because >> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to > unintelligible >> to >> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I > think that the >> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I >> couldn't >> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is >> discussion >> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a > question that >> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to > understand. >> For >> example: >> what is 1+1 >> and >> what is one plus one >> mean the same thing to a human and would result in >> 2 >> or two >> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding > the writing >> than it would understanding the math. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rob" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National > Association >> of >> Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not > accessible by screen >>> readers, hence the assistance website. >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>> >>>> To: "NABS-L" >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Nicole >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm > ahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlamber > t1987%40yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcoli > ni%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue > 2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo > dworth%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue > 2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From hypoplexer at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 04:11:12 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:11:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta Message-ID: <4cbfbd7b.cefde50a.3270.3768@mx.google.com> True. I hate the captchas where you have to enter the words, never mind the numbers, into the edit boxes. Those one's are the ones that are hard for me to understand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu> <2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> <003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <0DA7872239AD47818D41B6F57DE760C3@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Dear listers, Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring. Again. But here goes. I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there. I realize that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community. But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind people. Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have accessibility built in? I don't think so, although apple's made the idea viable. I think the same principle applies with captchas. Were I deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas. Especially if I had a braille display. To me, (and I say this knowing many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer system. But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion. And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong. Respectfully, Kirt On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say > anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal opinions. > > > > I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be accessible > all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of making > captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is to > prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen reader > in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what he/she > was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure which a > way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, I > think that it would be better to try to find another security feature. > > > > I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them > inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such > issues. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Peter, >> >> Let's write a resolution for it. I'll volunteer to help write it with you >> and anyone else interested. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> Good afternoon everyone, >> >> All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled >> individuals >> including the deaf-blind. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently >> used social >> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Donahue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >>> Good morning everyone, >>> >>> And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these >>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is >>> being >>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available >> tactually. >>> I've >>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to >>> allow >>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able >> to create a >>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and >> reproduce it both >>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing >> impairments can have >>> full >>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of >> our work with >>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't >>> there >>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind >> driver interface >>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be >> doing the same >>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot >> hack it because >>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to >> unintelligible >>> to >>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I >> think that the >>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I >>> couldn't >>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is >>> discussion >>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a >> question that >>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to >> understand. >>> For >>> example: >>> what is 1+1 >>> and >>> what is one plus one >>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in >>> 2 >>> or two >>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding >> the writing >>> than it would understanding the math. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rob" >>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >> Association >>> of >>> Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not >> accessible by screen >>>> readers, hence the assistance website. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NABS-L" >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Nicole >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm >> ahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlamber >> t1987%40yahoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcoli >> ni%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >> 2%40satx.rr.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo >> dworth%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >> 2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Oct 21 04:27:48 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:27:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley><003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><0DA7872239AD47818D41B6F57DE760C3@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Maybe here is the difference? Do the captcha solving services require that an actual person be on the other end to receive and solve the captcha? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > Dear listers, > Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring. > Again. But here goes. > I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either > with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there. I realize > that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community. > But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind > people. Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have > accessibility built in? I don't think so, although apple's made the > idea viable. > I think the same principle applies with captchas. Were I > deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get > the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas. > Especially if I had a braille display. To me, (and I say this knowing > many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind > person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer > system. But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion. > And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > > On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say >> anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal >> opinions. >> >> >> >> I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be >> accessible >> all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of >> making >> captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is >> to >> prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen >> reader >> in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what >> he/she >> was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure >> which a >> way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, >> I >> think that it would be better to try to find another security feature. >> >> >> >> I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them >> inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such >> issues. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >> >> >>> Peter, >>> >>> Let's write a resolution for it. I'll volunteer to help write it with >>> you >>> and anyone else interested. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> Good afternoon everyone, >>> >>> All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled >>> individuals >>> including the deaf-blind. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently >>> used social >>> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. >>> >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Donahue" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Good morning everyone, >>>> >>>> And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these >>>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is >>>> being >>>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available >>> tactually. >>>> I've >>>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to >>>> allow >>>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able >>> to create a >>>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and >>> reproduce it both >>>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing >>> impairments can have >>>> full >>>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of >>> our work with >>>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't >>>> there >>>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind >>> driver interface >>>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be >>> doing the same >>>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot >>> hack it because >>>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to >>> unintelligible >>>> to >>>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I >>> think that the >>>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I >>>> couldn't >>>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is >>>> discussion >>>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a >>> question that >>>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to >>> understand. >>>> For >>>> example: >>>> what is 1+1 >>>> and >>>> what is one plus one >>>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in >>>> 2 >>>> or two >>>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding >>> the writing >>>> than it would understanding the math. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Rob" >>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>> Association >>>> of >>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >>>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not >>> accessible by screen >>>>> readers, hence the assistance website. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "NABS-L" >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Nicole >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm >>> ahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlamber >>> t1987%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcoli >>> ni%40wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >>> 2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo >>> dworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >>> 2%40satx.rr.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 04:36:56 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:36:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta In-Reply-To: References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu> <2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> <003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <0DA7872239AD47818D41B6F57DE760C3@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I honestly don't know- I just know they work. On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Maybe here is the difference? Do the captcha solving services require that > an actual person be on the other end to receive and solve the captcha? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Dear listers, >> Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring. >> Again. But here goes. >> I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either >> with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there. I realize >> that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community. >> But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind >> people. Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have >> accessibility built in? I don't think so, although apple's made the >> idea viable. >> I think the same principle applies with captchas. Were I >> deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get >> the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas. >> Especially if I had a braille display. To me, (and I say this knowing >> many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind >> person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer >> system. But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion. >> And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong. >> Respectfully, >> Kirt >> >> >> On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say >>> anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal >>> opinions. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be >>> accessible >>> all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of >>> making >>> captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is >>> to >>> prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen >>> reader >>> in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what >>> he/she >>> was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure >>> which a >>> way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, >>> I >>> think that it would be better to try to find another security feature. >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them >>> inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such >>> issues. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Peter, >>>> >>>> Let's write a resolution for it. I'll volunteer to help write it with >>>> you >>>> and anyone else interested. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone, >>>> >>>> All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled >>>> individuals >>>> including the deaf-blind. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently >>>> used social >>>> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. >>>> >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Peter Donahue" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>>> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >>>>> And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these >>>>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is >>>>> being >>>>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available >>>> tactually. >>>>> I've >>>>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to >>>>> allow >>>>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able >>>> to create a >>>>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and >>>> reproduce it both >>>>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing >>>> impairments can have >>>>> full >>>>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of >>>> our work with >>>>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't >>>>> there >>>>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind >>>> driver interface >>>>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be >>>> doing the same >>>>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot >>>> hack it because >>>>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to >>>> unintelligible >>>>> to >>>>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I >>>> think that the >>>>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I >>>>> couldn't >>>>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is >>>>> discussion >>>>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a >>>> question that >>>>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to >>>> understand. >>>>> For >>>>> example: >>>>> what is 1+1 >>>>> and >>>>> what is one plus one >>>>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in >>>>> 2 >>>>> or two >>>>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding >>>> the writing >>>>> than it would understanding the math. >>>>> >>>>> Nicole >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Rob" >>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>> Association >>>>> of >>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >>>>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not >>>> accessible by screen >>>>>> readers, hence the assistance website. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "NABS-L" >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Nicole >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm >>>> ahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlamber >>>> t1987%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcoli >>>> ni%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >>>> 2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo >>>> dworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >>>> 2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 05:36:35 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:36:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta In-Reply-To: References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley><003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><000901cb7096$3f794ab0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><0DA7872239AD47818D41B6F57DE760C3@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <99987D82-65EC-4CF5-8693-55F48D71A562@gmail.com> Solona does have people solving captchas but WebVisum doesn't. On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:27 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Maybe here is the difference? Do the captcha solving services require that an actual person be on the other end to receive and solve the captcha? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Dear listers, >> Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring. >> Again. But here goes. >> I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either >> with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there. I realize >> that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community. >> But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind >> people. Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have >> accessibility built in? I don't think so, although apple's made the >> idea viable. >> I think the same principle applies with captchas. Were I >> deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get >> the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas. >> Especially if I had a braille display. To me, (and I say this knowing >> many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind >> person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer >> system. But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion. >> And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong. >> Respectfully, >> Kirt >> >> >> On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say >>> anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal opinions. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be accessible >>> all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of making >>> captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is to >>> prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen reader >>> in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what he/she >>> was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure which a >>> way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, I >>> think that it would be better to try to find another security feature. >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them >>> inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such >>> issues. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Peter, >>>> >>>> Let's write a resolution for it. I'll volunteer to help write it with you >>>> and anyone else interested. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone, >>>> >>>> All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled >>>> individuals >>>> including the deaf-blind. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently >>>> used social >>>> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly. >>>> >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Peter Donahue" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>> >>>> >>>>> Good morning everyone, >>>>> >>>>> And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these >>>>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is >>>>> being >>>>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available >>>> tactually. >>>>> I've >>>>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to >>>>> allow >>>>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able >>>> to create a >>>>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and >>>> reproduce it both >>>>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing >>>> impairments can have >>>>> full >>>>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of >>>> our work with >>>>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't >>>>> there >>>>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind >>>> driver interface >>>>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be >>>> doing the same >>>>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot >>>> hack it because >>>>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to >>>> unintelligible >>>>> to >>>>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I >>>> think that the >>>>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I >>>>> couldn't >>>>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is >>>>> discussion >>>>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a >>>> question that >>>>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to >>>> understand. >>>>> For >>>>> example: >>>>> what is 1+1 >>>>> and >>>>> what is one plus one >>>>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in >>>>> 2 >>>>> or two >>>>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding >>>> the writing >>>>> than it would understanding the math. >>>>> >>>>> Nicole >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Rob" >>>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National >>>> Association >>>>> of >>>>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >>>>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not >>>> accessible by screen >>>>>> readers, hence the assistance website. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "NABS-L" >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Nicole >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm >>>> ahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlamber >>>> t1987%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcoli >>>> ni%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >>>> 2%40satx.rr.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo >>>> dworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue >>>> 2%40satx.rr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 05:41:22 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:41:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta In-Reply-To: <003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <5B643ACE915C4A2A8B30D910E53F44C4@stanford.edu><2B24A4F1885A4BD1A24479D4E0E6BE81@Ashley> <003301cb7062$f014ec00$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <0880758A-7A77-4669-AD8E-883EE74D2BBF@gmail.com> I agree, something needs to be done about this. But if a deaf-blind person can use a screen reader with a braille display, then solona or WebVisum are just as useful, convenient or inconvenient to use as they are to anyone else. Those audio alternatives are sometimes useless, because it's very hard to understand them. Most of the time I just use one of the captcha solution services even if there is an audio captcha available. On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:27 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these > things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is being > done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available tactually. I've > said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to allow > a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able to create a > way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and reproduce it both > audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing impairments can have full > access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of our work with > Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't there > doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind driver interface > but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be doing the same > with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because > the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible to > be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the > most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I couldn't > understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is discussion > about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that > only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. For > example: > what is 1+1 > and > what is one plus one > mean the same thing to a human and would result in > 2 > or two > but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing > than it would understanding the math. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > >> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the >> difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen >> readers, hence the assistance website. >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" >> wrote: >> >>> What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> >>> To: "NABS-L" >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta >>> >>> >>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nicole >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From hypoplexer at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 06:04:27 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 02:04:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta Message-ID: <4cbfd806.c78de50a.68e9.386b@mx.google.com> I've never heard of these services. What do they do? I've been doing those monstrosities of audio captchas forever, and wouldn't mind a change. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" References: <4cbfd806.c78de50a.68e9.386b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <942197A8-78FE-4211-B9AE-817977B56B04@gmail.com> Just check them out. www.solona.net and www.webvisum.com On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:04 AM, Danielle Montour wrote: > I've never heard of these services. What do they do? I've been doing those monstrosities of audio captchas forever, and wouldn't mind a change. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 01:41:22 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > I agree, something needs to be done about this. But if a deaf-blind person can use a screen reader with a braille display, then solona or WebVisum are just as useful, convenient or inconvenient to use as they are to anyone else. Those audio alternatives are sometimes useless, because it's very hard to understand them. Most of the time I just use one of the captcha solution services even if there is an audio captcha available. > On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:27 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > > Good morning everyone, > > And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these > things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is being > done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available tactually. I've > said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to allow > a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able to create a > way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and reproduce it both > audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing impairments can have full > access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of our work with > Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't there > doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind driver interface > but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be doing the same > with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot hack it because > the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to unintelligible to > be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I think that the > most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I couldn't > understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is discussion > about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a question that > only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to understand. For > example: > what is 1+1 > and > what is one plus one > mean the same thing to a human and would result in > 2 > or two > but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding the writing > than it would understanding the math. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta > > > Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the > difference between a human & a computer. It is not accessible by screen > readers, hence the assistance website. > > Sent from my iPod > > On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > > What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "NABS-L" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Capta > > > Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert > 1987%40yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolin > i%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2 > %40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Oct 21 16:19:13 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:19:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Capta References: <4cbfd806.c78de50a.68e9.386b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002f01cb713b$b3d65b50$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, Provided the captcha service can interpret the captcha data. I've had them both fail on me on several occasions. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Montour" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta I've never heard of these services. What do they do? I've been doing those monstrosities of audio captchas forever, and wouldn't mind a change. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" wrote: What is CAPTA? Maybe the advocacy program for your state. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to assist me in this reguard? RJ From trising at sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 21 17:56:01 2010 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:56:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers References: Message-ID: I use a Pac Mate BX, which means the unit has a Braille keyboard, with a 40 cell Braille display. I believe, if I could only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would want. I can read books in Braille on it from Bookshare,, NLS, and Optasia Ministries. I can take Minutes and use it for all my duties as the NFB of Michigan Secretary. A new unit is very expensive, but we bought our units off ebay for a fraction of the price and then sent them in to get them refurbished and turn them into Pacmate omnis. We have an extra Pac Mate BX without a Braille display for sale. The displays often come up on ebay as well, and that is where we got ours. If you are interested, email off list trising at sbcglobal.net Terri Wilcox -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 397 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 20:52:43 2010 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:52:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi: I am rather unconventional; I use a Lap Top with Jaws. Even with the money you pay out for Jaws (close to nine hundred dollars now) and the three or four hundred you shell out for the computer, you're still better off than you would be if you bought a five thousand dollar notetaker. This is especially true if you're on a fixed income. The only drawback to this combination is that it doesn't have a Braille display immediately available. Speaking for myself alone, I acclimated swiftly to auditory learning. However, if you aren't a good auditory learner, you can always purchase a braille display from somewhere like Freedom Scientific later for about $2500 which still leaves you better off than you would be with a conventional blindness solution *smile* Just my two cents, Courtney On 10/21/10, trising wrote: > I use a Pac Mate BX, which means the unit has a Braille keyboard, with a 40 > cell Braille display. I believe, if I could only have > one piece of technology, this is the one I would want. I can read books in > Braille on it from Bookshare,, NLS, and Optasia > Ministries. I can take Minutes and use it for all my duties as the NFB of > Michigan Secretary. A new unit is very expensive, but we > bought our units off ebay for a fraction of the price and then sent them in > to get them refurbished and turn them into Pacmate > omnis. We have an extra Pac Mate BX without a Braille display for sale. The > displays often come up on ebay as well, and that is > where we got ours. If you are interested, email off list > trising at sbcglobal.net > Terri Wilcox > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 397 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 21:13:45 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:13:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers References: Message-ID: RJ, way to go on still using the Braille 'n Speak. It was my first introduction to the Note Taker world. If you are on a fixed income a Netbook is reasonably priced and maybe your Lions Club could help purchase a Braille display. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 12:36 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and its on its >last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, How much does it >caust, and does it live up to what is advertised concerning it? I'm not >shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a braille note, or a braille >sence. I'm on disability, due to some other disabililities I have. I'm also >in a distance learning Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. >I'm not shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have alot >of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to assist me in this >reguard? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 21:31:09 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:31:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rj: I got a Pacmate about four years ago and sadly now all I really use it for is reading braille books on the braille display, and taking notes in class. Most of the time it sits unused. Like others have said, the only real advantage to the pacmate would be that it's all in one piece and it has a braille display. However, you can use a laptop or even a netbook and accomplish the same thing and then later purchase a braille display. I do believe they have reduced the price of the Pacmates somewhat but I'm not sure they are really worth it the high price when so many other devices can accomplish the same thing. Just my thoughts! Kerri On 10/21/10, Anjelina wrote: > RJ, way to go on still using the Braille 'n Speak. It was my first > introduction to the Note Taker world. If you are on a fixed income a Netbook > is reasonably priced and maybe your Lions Club could help purchase a Braille > display. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 12:36 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers > > >>I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and its on its >>last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, How much does it >>caust, and does it live up to what is advertised concerning it? I'm not >>shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a braille note, or a braille >>sence. I'm on disability, due to some other disabililities I have. I'm also >> >>in a distance learning Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. >> >>I'm not shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have alot >> >>of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to assist me in this >>reguard? RJ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From hypoplexer at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 22:19:29 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:19:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers Message-ID: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Hi all, I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. HTH Danni Courtesy: Alex Hall. Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to include it in this comparison. chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 megabytes for this purpose. chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t versions. chinin chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a 32 process limit. chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with Microsoft Windows computers. chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 bluetooth stack. chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same way, but it cannot be recorded. chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does not. chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the Apex does not. chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the computer's screen. chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future as well. chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the networks supported by the Apex. chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer braille in text documents and web page forms. chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the Apex. chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your email download in the background while you read a book. The Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be supported but is not yet there. chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to facilitate easy manipulation of media. chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has Eloquence with its selection of ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear Listers, Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to start, and then having to open such and such application to do my thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. All the best, Kirt On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: > Hi all, > I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest > notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some > work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get > me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison > between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. > > HTH > > Danni > > Courtesy: Alex Hall. > > Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest > competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not > know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to > include it in this comparison. > > chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. > The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. > chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. > However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for > operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 > megabytes for this purpose. > chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at > 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at > 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t > versions. > chinin > chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While > this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it > is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new > features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens > of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a > 32 process limit. > chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage > devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB > master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, > used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use > as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though > it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it > can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with > Microsoft Windows computers. > chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, > which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a > compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to > transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device > supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot > supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, > however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support > bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option > to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 > bluetooth stack. > chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, > stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a > mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio > devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings > via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and > quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV > format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format > (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses > anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The > radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for > the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same > way, but it cannot be recorded. > chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an > internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. > chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, > and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to > charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does > not. > chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) > USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono > microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, > 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono > microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are > the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than > the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the > Apex does not. > chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or > brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its > built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with > its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. > This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via > USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB > converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the > computer's screen. > chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports > the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the > Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a > free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for > free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word > 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book > reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is > likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future > as well. > chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, > an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser > cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only > major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty > well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex > stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a > message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy > enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is > all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. > The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to > not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view > these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows > users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as > far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case > that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP > only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, > though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all > XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google > Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a > range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one > network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the > networks supported by the Apex. > chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 > dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has > computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian > and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only > English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade > 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a > text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer > braille in text documents and web page forms. > chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, > two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, > for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly > switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic > tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the > thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like > the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently > placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly > scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in > the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the > outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such > as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the > Apex. > chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you > could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to > your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the > the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the > BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the > functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far > as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the > background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your > machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your > email download in the background while you read a book. The > Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of > multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at > once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in > Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be > supported but is not yet there. > chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: > the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the > Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, > pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which > lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM > radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY > files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to > facilitate easy manipulation of media. > chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech > synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and > Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has > Eloquence with its selection of > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers > > I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and > its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, > How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised > concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a > braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some > other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning > Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not > shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have > alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to > assist me in this reguard? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From stacy.cervenka at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 23:09:19 2010 From: stacy.cervenka at gmail.com (Stacy Cervenka) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:09:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceNote mPower QT for Sale Message-ID: Hey, all. I'm currently trying to sell a VoiceNote mPower with a QWERTY keyboard (which is a regular, computer-style keyboard). It's in great condition; has only been used 2 or 3 times; and I'm willing to negotiate on the price. Please see details below. Thanks! Stacy FOR SALE: VoiceNote mPower with a QWERTY keyboard (which is a regular, laoptop-style keyboard). Also includes: the carrying case with shoulder strap, Keysoft version 7.0 installed on the unit, Keysoft version 7.0 CD-ROM, AC power adaptor, regular print User's Guide, electronic version of the User's Guide installed on the VoiceNote itself, large print command summary, Audio tutorial CD, headphones, 9 point serial cable, and a 9 to 25 pin adaptor plug. The unit was purchased in 2006 and has only been used 2 or 3 times. It's in like-new condition. Asking $750 or best offer. Willing to negotiate. Please contact Stacy at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com or (708) 359-3301. From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 23:21:57 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:21:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Curt and All: First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? Here is my delemma. I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as into technology as I am now. Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style keyboard would be better for me. When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into modernizing and getting a better notetaker? How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? Thanks, Kerri On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear Listers, > Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use > my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching > over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with > braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as > opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, > for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my > contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and > get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to > everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to > start, and then having to open such and such application to do my > thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 > keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's > why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >> >> HTH >> >> Danni >> >> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >> >> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >> include it in this comparison. >> >> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >> megabytes for this purpose. >> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >> versions. >> chinin >> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >> 32 process limit. >> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >> Microsoft Windows computers. >> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >> bluetooth stack. >> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >> way, but it cannot be recorded. >> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >> not. >> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >> Apex does not. >> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >> computer's screen. >> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >> as well. >> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >> networks supported by the Apex. >> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >> braille in text documents and web page forms. >> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >> Apex. >> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >> email download in the background while you read a book. The >> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >> supported but is not yet there. >> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >> Eloquence with its selection of >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >> >> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >> assist me in this reguard? RJ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From hypoplexer at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 23:34:58 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:34:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers Message-ID: <4cc0ce3e.d16fe50a.2794.62ac@mx.google.com> Agreed. My Apex is wonderful and very quick to accomplish tasks. It has built in wireless ethernet, bluetooth, and ports to hook it up to a laptop. The best thing is, with new and improved versions of KeySoft, the software that runs the Apex, is improving every time of it's frequent release. I have, however, also used a BrailleSense, and they use elements similar to a computer, static boxes, dialogs, etc, as displayed on the left hand characters of the braille display. I have never used a PacMate, however, I've heard great things about it. Danni P.S. Sorry if you didn't understand some of my typing errors in the previous message. I type too fast on my apex at times (smile). Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Hi all, I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. HTH Danni Courtesy: Alex Hall. Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to include it in this comparison. chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 megabytes for this purpose. chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t versions. chinin chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a 32 process limit. chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with Microsoft Windows computers. chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 bluetooth stack. chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same way, but it cannot be recorded. chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does not. chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the Apex does not. chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the computer's screen. chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future as well. chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the networks supported by the Apex. chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer braille in text documents and web page forms. chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the Apex. chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your email download in the background while you read a book. The Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be supported but is not yet there. chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to facilitate easy manipulation of media. chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has Eloquence with its selection of ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" Message-ID: <6AA1F694A43B45DB8CEECF5411A788C5@hometwxakonvzn> I heard the Braille Sence from GW Micro has Y-fi, and blue tooth built in. Does anyone or has any one used the braille sence? Is it worth bying? Carri, I haven't had to think about upgrading to a newer note taker until now, when my Braille 'n speak 200, just stopped working. I had the thing for ten years. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > Hi Curt and All: > > First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the > Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? > > Here is my delemma. > > I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. > At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as > into technology as I am now. > > Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the > Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just > stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or > comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into > computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style > keyboard would be better for me. > > When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he > time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is > terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to > load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you > have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much > obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect > anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use > it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes > in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't > have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. > > I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and > think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then > I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a > braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, > and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I > think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to > justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? > > But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take > notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have > more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? > > What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into > modernizing and getting a better notetaker? > > How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish > or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear Listers, >> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Danni >>> >>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>> >>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>> include it in this comparison. >>> >>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>> megabytes for this purpose. >>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>> versions. >>> chinin >>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>> 32 process limit. >>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>> bluetooth stack. >>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>> not. >>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>> Apex does not. >>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>> computer's screen. >>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>> as well. >>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>> networks supported by the Apex. >>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>> Apex. >>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>> supported but is not yet there. >>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>> Eloquence with its selection of >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>> >>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 23:39:54 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:39:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear Kerri and everyone, A notetaker isn't supposed to be a computer. Mine is slow on the internet, but that's not really what I use it for. Yeah, it's loads better than the PAC Mate in terms of the technology it has. But, five years ago, the PAC Mate had the edge, in my humble opinion. But basicly, I don't think that really matters. If you're using a notetaker as a notetaker, then whatever works is good. I happen to think I'm going to be much more efficient with my Apex (which I've had for exactly one week now once I really figure it out,, than I ever was with my PAC mate. But there's no need for me to use the slow web browser to surf the internet when I have a desktop computer which is perfectly capable of doing the same thing. Although, I will say, I love checking email on my apex. Humanware did great there. So that post was kind of disjointed. Basicly, what I'm saying is this. Notetakers should be used to take notes and keep track of important things. They aren't meant to be computers. If you want a computer, get a laptop. But if you want to be able to take notes fast, wherever you are, and be portable, efficient and quick, I think whatever notetaker you like best is the best way to go. Of course, that's assuming you can afford it or get the financial help you need to buy it. Just my two cents, take them or leave them. Respectfully, Kirt On 10/21/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Curt and All: > > First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the > Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? > > Here is my delemma. > > I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. > At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as > into technology as I am now. > > Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the > Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just > stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or > comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into > computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style > keyboard would be better for me. > > When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he > time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is > terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to > load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you > have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much > obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect > anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use > it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes > in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't > have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. > > I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and > think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then > I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a > braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, > and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I > think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to > justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? > > But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take > notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have > more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? > > What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into > modernizing and getting a better notetaker? > > How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish > or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear Listers, >> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Danni >>> >>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>> >>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>> include it in this comparison. >>> >>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>> megabytes for this purpose. >>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>> versions. >>> chinin >>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>> 32 process limit. >>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>> bluetooth stack. >>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>> not. >>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>> Apex does not. >>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>> computer's screen. >>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>> as well. >>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>> networks supported by the Apex. >>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>> Apex. >>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>> supported but is not yet there. >>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>> Eloquence with its selection of >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>> >>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 23:53:26 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:53:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The future of Notetakers Message-ID: Hi all, Since we've been discussing notetakers I have a few questions. 1. do you feel notetakers have as much of a hold on the blindness community as they did say when Blazie was around? My first notetaker was the Braille 'n Speak and during my first year of college I used the M20. It seems the notetaker options are starting to slim down. I think mainstream tech is starting to catch up and notetakers are in some ways lagging behind. 2. Why are Notetakers so expensive when they function similarly to a computer? 3. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about your studies, and if it's using an Apex or combination of Netbook with Braille display and it works for you that's what matters. What were your major deciding factors in what technology you use for classes? Hopefully the manufacturers take into consideration the resolution passed at this years national convention regarding integrating their products with mainstream tech. From hypoplexer at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 00:00:22 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:00:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers Message-ID: <4cc0d432.0f8de50a.1a87.65cf@mx.google.com> Hi, Well, as for internet on the Apex, it all depends on your connection. I am using built in wireless right now, and it's relatively fast. You can unpack bookshare books on the apex, and there is support for both SD and SDHC (high capasity) cards. To contradict the PacMate, there is NO slot for compactflash cards. If I were you, I'd modernize and find a notetaker to your liking. However, I want to bring this to all of your attention: the Braille Wizard. Here's some info: Introducing the Wizard The Wizard is a braille Personal Digital Assistant, PDA, designed specifically for blind people. Most of us use PDA's in our personal lives and know them as smart phones, iPad's, laptop computers, and even desktop computers. The Wizard is a similar device that is tailored for blind people. Instead of a screen, the Wizard features a 20-character braille display with synthetic speech output and a standard braille keyboard for data entry. Packaged to keep it small and portable, the Wizard is about half the size of a sheet of paper and less than one inch thick, so users can take it everywhere they would take a cell phone. Why Create Another Braille PDA for Blind People? Braille PDA's for the blind are not a new concept. The technology has been available for almost three decades, but since blindness is a low incidence disability in the UddS,. the size of this market does not encourage the same innovation that drives mainstream technology. As a result, current braille PDA's are expensive--in the $5,000-10,000 range-- and often lack the same features as sighted people have come to expect in a PDA. What makes the Wizard different is that it is being produced by a Boston-based non-profit, National Braille Press, that is dedicated to literacy for blind people through braille. NBP is committed to creating a braille PDA that is affordable, with a wide range of features, and uses Android as an open source platform to encourage innovation. Wizard Features and Functions chinin 8 dot braille keyboard with an imbedded cursor pad. chinin 20 cell, 8 dot braille display with cursor routing and forward and back keys. chinin Android Operating system found in many smartphones and notepads. chinin 32GB of internal storage, users can plug SD cards into the back of the Wizard to create data backups or to load data from other sources. chinin Bluetooth wireless connectivity for headsets and other hands free devices. chinin WiFi connectivity to access local networks or other WiFi hotspots. chinin Two USB (Universal Serial Bus) ports for users to connect to other computer devices. chinin Accelerometer -- the same chip that is used in games is also used to detect the orientation of the Wizard and allows it to adjust when it is tapped or rotated. chinin Speech input and output for users who want to listen instead of read braille, the Wizard has synthetic speech output. It also has speech input so users can perform voice searches, dial by voice, and create voice short cuts. chinin Cellular connection for data and voice, which can be used as a cell phone and smart phone for email, web browsing, and smart applications. chinin Built-in speakers and microphone for users with a cell phone carrier contract to make and receive phone calls. chinin Headphonestheadset jack, a standard jack where users can plug in their favorite headphones. chinin GPS receiver to identify locations, and with the help of smart applications, to provide navigation information. Android-based navigation applications for blind users are currently being created by other developers. chinin Compass to help users navigate. chinin Built-in music player. Users can load a music library on the Wizard and listen via speakers or headset. chinin 5Mp camera, for photography and to identify items or surroundings in the user's environment. Applications are available that can photograph and read a printed page. chinin Video output connector: for users who need a visual display. National Braille Press is currently in the first year of product development and making significant progress. A working prototype of the Wizard is expected to be completed by 2011 and the device will be available to the public soon after that. Since Android is a working, usable operating system, we expect to continually upgrade and expand the features of the Wizard. Applications for the Wizard will be created by third party developers so there is unlimited possibility for the product to evolve based on the user's needs. About National Braille Press The Wizard is a project of the Center for Braille Innovation (CBI) at National Braille Press, which began in the winter of 2009. In an effort to increase braille literacy, the Wizard was conceived as the first CBI project, one of many projects that NBP's Center plans to initiate to make accessible technology products for blind people so that they can stay connected in the digital world. NBP is taking a leadership role to research, develop and produce specific affordable accessible technology products that will help promote braille literacy for young readers, and support blind students and adults in school and in the workplace environment. While paper braille will not disappear in the immediate future, NBP believes that it is equally important for blind people to have accessible technology to access information that the digital age provides Worldwide Collaborations Since the launch of National Braille Press's Center for Braille Innovation, NBP has been joined by the National Federation of the Blind, The China Braille Press, the World Braille Foundation and the American Printing House for the Blind to partner in various affordable technology projects for blind people. The Wizard project is being funded by the National Braille Press, federal appropriations, the National Federation of the Blind, and the China Braille Press. As non-profit organizations, these groups are committed to ensuring that blind people have access to technology at affordable prices. If you would like to donate to this project, please go to NBPDDORG to learn more ----- Original Message ----- From: Kerri Kosten wrote: Dear Listers, Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to start, and then having to open such and such application to do my thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. All the best, Kirt On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: Hi all, I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. HTH Danni Courtesy: Alex Hall. Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to include it in this comparison. chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 megabytes for this purpose. chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t versions. chinin chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a 32 process limit. chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with Microsoft Windows computers. chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 bluetooth stack. chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same way, but it cannot be recorded. chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does not. chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the Apex does not. chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the computer's screen. chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future as well. chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the networks supported by the Apex. chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer braille in text documents and web page forms. chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the Apex. chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your email download in the background while you read a book. The Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be supported but is not yet there. chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to facilitate easy manipulation of media. chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has Eloquence with its selection of ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" References: <4cc0d432.0f8de50a.1a87.65cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Man...that actually sounds like a fantastic idea! I use an android phone already and it's decently accessible (not as good as an iphone but they're working on it), and I think it's only gonna get better. In my humble opinion (which is verry much just a layperson's opinion), this sounds really, really good. Of course, we'll see what it's actually like when it comes out. All the best and I promise I'll slow down my posting, Kirt On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: > Hi, > Well, as for internet on the Apex, it all depends on your > connection. I am using built in wireless right now, and it's > relatively fast. You can unpack bookshare books on the apex, and > there is support for both SD and SDHC (high capasity) cards. To > contradict the PacMate, there is NO slot for compactflash cards. > If I were you, I'd modernize and find a notetaker to your liking. > > However, I want to bring this to all of your attention: the > Braille Wizard. Here's some info: > > Introducing the Wizard > The Wizard is a braille Personal Digital Assistant, PDA, > designed specifically for blind people. Most of us use PDA's in > our personal lives and know them as smart phones, iPad's, laptop > computers, and even desktop computers. The Wizard is a similar > device that is tailored for blind people. Instead of a screen, > the Wizard features a 20-character braille display with synthetic > speech output and a standard braille keyboard for data entry. > Packaged to keep it small and portable, the Wizard is about half > the size of a sheet of paper and less than one inch thick, so > users can take it everywhere they would take a cell phone. > > Why Create Another Braille PDA for Blind People? > > Braille PDA's for the blind are not a new concept. The > technology has been available for almost three decades, but since > blindness is a low incidence disability in the UddS,. the size > of this market does not encourage the same innovation that drives > mainstream technology. As a result, current braille PDA's are > expensive--in the $5,000-10,000 range-- and often lack the same > features as sighted people have come to expect in a PDA. What > makes the Wizard different is that it is being produced by a > Boston-based non-profit, National Braille Press, that is > dedicated to literacy for blind people through braille. NBP is > committed to creating a braille PDA that is affordable, with a > wide range of features, and uses Android as an open source > platform to encourage innovation. > > Wizard Features and Functions > > chinin 8 dot braille keyboard with an imbedded cursor pad. > chinin 20 cell, 8 dot braille display with cursor routing and > forward and back keys. > chinin Android Operating system found in many smartphones and > notepads. > chinin 32GB of internal storage, users can plug SD cards into > the back of the Wizard to create data backups or to load data > from other sources. > chinin Bluetooth wireless connectivity for headsets and other > hands free devices. > chinin WiFi connectivity to access local networks or other WiFi > hotspots. > chinin Two USB (Universal Serial Bus) ports for users to > connect to other computer devices. > chinin Accelerometer -- the same chip that is used in games is > also used to detect the orientation of the Wizard and allows it > to adjust when it is tapped or rotated. > chinin Speech input and output for users who want to listen > instead of read braille, the Wizard has synthetic speech output. > It also has speech input so users can perform voice searches, > dial by voice, and create voice short cuts. > chinin Cellular connection for data and voice, which can be > used as a cell phone and smart phone for email, web browsing, and > smart applications. > chinin Built-in speakers and microphone for users with a cell > phone carrier contract to make and receive phone calls. > chinin Headphonestheadset jack, a standard jack where users can > plug in their favorite headphones. > chinin GPS receiver to identify locations, and with the help of > smart applications, to provide navigation information. > Android-based navigation applications for blind users are > currently being created by other developers. > chinin Compass to help users navigate. > chinin Built-in music player. Users can load a music library > on the Wizard and listen via speakers or headset. > chinin 5Mp camera, for photography and to identify items or > surroundings in the user's environment. Applications are > available that can photograph and read a printed page. > chinin Video output connector: for users who need a visual > display. > National Braille Press is currently in the first year of > product development and making significant progress. A working > prototype of the Wizard is expected to be completed by 2011 and > the device will be available to the public soon after that. > Since Android is a working, usable operating system, we expect to > continually upgrade and expand the features of the Wizard. > Applications for the Wizard will be created by third party > developers so there is unlimited possibility for the product to > evolve based on the user's needs. > About National Braille Press The Wizard is a project of the > Center for Braille Innovation (CBI) at National Braille Press, > which began in the winter of 2009. In an effort to increase > braille literacy, the Wizard was conceived as the first CBI > project, one of many projects that NBP's Center plans to initiate > to make accessible technology products for blind people so that > they can stay connected in the digital world. NBP is taking a > leadership role to research, develop and produce specific > affordable accessible technology products that will help promote > braille literacy for young readers, and support blind students > and adults in school and in the workplace environment. While > paper braille will not disappear in the immediate future, NBP > believes that it is equally important for blind people to have > accessible technology to access information that the digital age > provides > Worldwide Collaborations Since the launch of National Braille > Press's Center for Braille Innovation, NBP has been joined by the > National Federation of the Blind, The China Braille Press, the > World Braille Foundation and the American Printing House for the > Blind to partner in various affordable technology projects for > blind people. The Wizard project is being funded by the National > Braille Press, federal appropriations, the National Federation of > the Blind, and the China Braille Press. As non-profit > organizations, these groups are committed to ensuring that blind > people have access to technology at affordable prices. If you > would like to donate to this project, please go to NBPDDORG to > learn more > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kerri Kosten To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:21:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > Hi Curt and All: > > First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the > Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? > > Here is my delemma. > > I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in > 2006. > At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't > as > into technology as I am now. > > Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was > on the > Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I > just > stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research > or > comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was > so into > computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop > style > keyboard would be better for me. > > When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all > he > time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on > it is > terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage > to > load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so > you > have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty > much > obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect > anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I > use > it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking > notes > in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also > doesn't > have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash > cards. > > I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited > and > think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. > But, then > I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does > have a > braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an > Iphone, > and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same > thing. I > think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough > to > justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? > > But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and > take > notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could > have > more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? > > What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look > into > modernizing and getting a better notetaker? > > How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and > sluggish > or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear Listers, > Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still > use > my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although > switching > over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops > with > braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker > as > opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I > can, > for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in > my > contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to > start and > get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access > to > everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, > jaws to > start, and then having to open such and such application to do > my > thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or > maybe 2 > keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. > That's > why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do > that. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: > Hi all, > I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest > notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some > work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't > get > me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a > comparison > between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. > > HTH > > Danni > > Courtesy: Alex Hall. > > Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest > competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not > know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to > include it in this comparison. > > chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. > The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. > chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the > Apex. > However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for > operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 > megabytes for this purpose. > chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at > 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs > at > 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t > versions. > chinin > chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While > this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it > is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new > features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens > of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a > 32 process limit. > chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage > devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB > master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, > used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use > as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, > though > it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it > can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with > Microsoft Windows computers. > chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card > slot, > which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a > compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to > transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device > supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot > supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, > however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support > bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this > option > to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 > bluetooth stack. > chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, > stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a > mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth > audio > devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings > via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and > quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV > format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format > (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses > anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The > radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for > the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same > way, but it cannot be recorded. > chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an > internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. > chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, > and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to > charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does > not. > chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) > USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono > microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master > USB, > 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono > microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they > are > the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than > the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the > Apex does not. > chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or > brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its > built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with > its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called > KeyView. > This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via > USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB > converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the > computer's screen. > chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports > the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the > Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a > free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support > for > free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word > 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book > reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is > likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future > as well. > chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web > browser, > an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser > cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only > major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty > well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex > stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a > message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy > enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is > all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. > The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to > not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view > these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows > users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as > far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the > case > that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP > only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, > though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all > XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google > Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a > range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only > one > network, but that one network is very widely used compared to > the > networks supported by the Apex. > chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 > dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has > computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and > Italian > and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only > English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and > grade > 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a > text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer > braille in text documents and web page forms. > chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, > two on either side of the Braille display for moving the > Braille, > for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly > switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic > tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the > thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act > like > the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently > placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you > quickly > scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in > the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the > outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, > such > as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the > Apex. > chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you > could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to > your email to read something, then leave the email open to go > the > the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the > BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the > functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as > far > as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the > background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for > your > machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let > your > email download in the background while you read a book. The > Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of > multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications > at > once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in > Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be > supported but is not yet there. > chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media > key: > the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the > Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, > pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which > lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM > radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY > files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to > facilitate easy manipulation of media. > chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech > synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and > Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has > Eloquence with its selection of > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers > > I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and > its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, > How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is > advertised > concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, > a > braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to > some > other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning > Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not > shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have > alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to > assist me in this reguard? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik200 > 6%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 00:15:44 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:15:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: <4cc0d432.0f8de50a.1a87.65cf@mx.google.com> References: <4cc0d432.0f8de50a.1a87.65cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <39BA6E4F-B63C-4E18-8FC9-BCD74F6B5747@gmail.com> Wow. I look forward to this product. It sounds to good to be true. We shall see. Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Danielle Montour wrote: > Hi, > Well, as for internet on the Apex, it all depends on your connection. I am using built in wireless right now, and it's relatively fast. You can unpack bookshare books on the apex, and there is support for both SD and SDHC (high capasity) cards. To contradict the PacMate, there is NO slot for compactflash cards. If I were you, I'd modernize and find a notetaker to your liking. > > However, I want to bring this to all of your attention: the Braille Wizard. Here's some info: > > Introducing the Wizard > The Wizard is a braille Personal Digital Assistant, PDA, designed specifically for blind people. Most of us use PDA's in our personal lives and know them as smart phones, iPad's, laptop computers, and even desktop computers. The Wizard is a similar device that is tailored for blind people. Instead of a screen, the Wizard features a 20-character braille display with synthetic speech output and a standard braille keyboard for data entry. Packaged to keep it small and portable, the Wizard is about half the size of a sheet of paper and less than one inch thick, so users can take it everywhere they would take a cell phone. > > Why Create Another Braille PDA for Blind People? > > Braille PDA's for the blind are not a new concept. The technology has been available for almost three decades, but since blindness is a low incidence disability in the UddS,. the size of this market does not encourage the same innovation that drives mainstream technology. As a result, current braille PDA's are expensive--in the $5,000-10,000 range-- and often lack the same features as sighted people have come to expect in a PDA. What makes the Wizard different is that it is being produced by a Boston-based non-profit, National Braille Press, that is dedicated to literacy for blind people through braille. NBP is committed to creating a braille PDA that is affordable, with a wide range of features, and uses Android as an open source platform to encourage innovation. > > Wizard Features and Functions > > chinin 8 dot braille keyboard with an imbedded cursor pad. > chinin 20 cell, 8 dot braille display with cursor routing and forward and back keys. > chinin Android Operating system found in many smartphones and notepads. > chinin 32GB of internal storage, users can plug SD cards into the back of the Wizard to create data backups or to load data from other sources. > chinin Bluetooth wireless connectivity for headsets and other hands free devices. > chinin WiFi connectivity to access local networks or other WiFi hotspots. > chinin Two USB (Universal Serial Bus) ports for users to connect to other computer devices. > chinin Accelerometer -- the same chip that is used in games is also used to detect the orientation of the Wizard and allows it to adjust when it is tapped or rotated. > chinin Speech input and output for users who want to listen instead of read braille, the Wizard has synthetic speech output. It also has speech input so users can perform voice searches, dial by voice, and create voice short cuts. > chinin Cellular connection for data and voice, which can be used as a cell phone and smart phone for email, web browsing, and smart applications. > chinin Built-in speakers and microphone for users with a cell phone carrier contract to make and receive phone calls. > chinin Headphonestheadset jack, a standard jack where users can plug in their favorite headphones. > chinin GPS receiver to identify locations, and with the help of smart applications, to provide navigation information. Android-based navigation applications for blind users are currently being created by other developers. > chinin Compass to help users navigate. > chinin Built-in music player. Users can load a music library on the Wizard and listen via speakers or headset. > chinin 5Mp camera, for photography and to identify items or surroundings in the user's environment. Applications are available that can photograph and read a printed page. > chinin Video output connector: for users who need a visual display. > National Braille Press is currently in the first year of product development and making significant progress. A working prototype of the Wizard is expected to be completed by 2011 and the device will be available to the public soon after that. Since Android is a working, usable operating system, we expect to continually upgrade and expand the features of the Wizard. Applications for the Wizard will be created by third party developers so there is unlimited possibility for the product to evolve based on the user's needs. > About National Braille Press The Wizard is a project of the Center for Braille Innovation (CBI) at National Braille Press, which began in the winter of 2009. In an effort to increase braille literacy, the Wizard was conceived as the first CBI project, one of many projects that NBP's Center plans to initiate to make accessible technology products for blind people so that they can stay connected in the digital world. NBP is taking a leadership role to research, develop and produce specific affordable accessible technology products that will help promote braille literacy for young readers, and support blind students and adults in school and in the workplace environment. While paper braille will not disappear in the immediate future, NBP believes that it is equally important for blind people to have accessible technology to access information that the digital age provides > Worldwide Collaborations Since the launch of National Braille Press's Center for Braille Innovation, NBP has been joined by the National Federation of the Blind, The China Braille Press, the World Braille Foundation and the American Printing House for the Blind to partner in various affordable technology projects for blind people. The Wizard project is being funded by the National Braille Press, federal appropriations, the National Federation of the Blind, and the China Braille Press. As non-profit organizations, these groups are committed to ensuring that blind people have access to technology at affordable prices. If you would like to donate to this project, please go to NBPDDORG to learn more > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kerri Kosten To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:21:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > Hi Curt and All: > > First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the > Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? > > Here is my delemma. > > I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. > At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as > into technology as I am now. > > Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the > Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just > stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or > comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into > computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style > keyboard would be better for me. > > When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he > time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is > terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to > load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you > have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much > obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect > anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use > it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes > in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't > have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. > > I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and > think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then > I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a > braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, > and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I > think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to > justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? > > But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take > notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have > more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? > > What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into > modernizing and getting a better notetaker? > > How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish > or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear Listers, > Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use > my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching > over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with > braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as > opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, > for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my > contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and > get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to > everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to > start, and then having to open such and such application to do my > thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 > keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's > why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: > Hi all, > I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest > notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some > work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get > me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison > between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. > > HTH > > Danni > > Courtesy: Alex Hall. > > Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest > competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not > know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to > include it in this comparison. > > chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. > The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. > chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. > However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for > operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 > megabytes for this purpose. > chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at > 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at > 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t > versions. > chinin > chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While > this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it > is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new > features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens > of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a > 32 process limit. > chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage > devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB > master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, > used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use > as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though > it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it > can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with > Microsoft Windows computers. > chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, > which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a > compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to > transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device > supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot > supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, > however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support > bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option > to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 > bluetooth stack. > chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, > stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a > mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio > devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings > via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and > quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV > format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format > (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses > anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The > radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for > the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same > way, but it cannot be recorded. > chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an > internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. > chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, > and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to > charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does > not. > chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) > USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono > microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, > 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono > microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are > the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than > the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the > Apex does not. > chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or > brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its > built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with > its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. > This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via > USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB > converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the > computer's screen. > chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports > the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the > Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a > free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for > free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word > 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book > reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is > likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future > as well. > chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, > an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser > cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only > major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty > well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex > stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a > message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy > enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is > all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. > The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to > not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view > these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows > users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as > far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case > that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP > only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, > though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all > XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google > Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a > range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one > network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the > networks supported by the Apex. > chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 > dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has > computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian > and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only > English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade > 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a > text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer > braille in text documents and web page forms. > chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, > two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, > for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly > switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic > tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the > thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like > the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently > placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly > scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in > the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the > outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such > as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the > Apex. > chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you > could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to > your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the > the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the > BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the > functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far > as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the > background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your > machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your > email download in the background while you read a book. The > Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of > multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at > once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in > Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be > supported but is not yet there. > chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: > the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the > Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, > pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which > lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM > radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY > files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to > facilitate easy manipulation of media. > chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech > synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and > Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has > Eloquence with its selection of > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers > > I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and > its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, > How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised > concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a > braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some > other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning > Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not > shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have > alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to > assist me in this reguard? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik200 > 6%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Oct 22 01:27:14 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:27:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college student, I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would find it very hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that this is not possible for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn verses my laptop: BN: Pros 1. Turns on and off in less than a second 2. built in speech and Braille display 3. Braille input 4. portable 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me 6. don't have to use headphones 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) Cons: 1. does not support certain file types 2. bad at formatting 3. slow internet and problems with some websites 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game Laptop: Pros 1. fast internet 2. faster processor 3. can download third party programs 4. works with more file types 5. other people can work with me on it Cons: 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote (computers have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) 3. takes more than a minute to power on 4. requires Jaws, which can fail 5. no Braille display 6. need head phones if going to use in class 7. can get viruses That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that of the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you need the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a laptop. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > Hi Curt and All: > > First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the > Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? > > Here is my delemma. > > I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. > At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as > into technology as I am now. > > Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the > Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just > stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or > comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into > computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style > keyboard would be better for me. > > When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he > time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is > terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to > load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you > have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much > obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect > anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use > it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes > in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't > have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. > > I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and > think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then > I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a > braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, > and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I > think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to > justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? > > But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take > notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have > more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? > > What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into > modernizing and getting a better notetaker? > > How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish > or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear Listers, >> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Danni >>> >>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>> >>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>> include it in this comparison. >>> >>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>> megabytes for this purpose. >>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>> versions. >>> chinin >>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>> 32 process limit. >>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>> bluetooth stack. >>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>> not. >>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>> Apex does not. >>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>> computer's screen. >>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>> as well. >>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>> networks supported by the Apex. >>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>> Apex. >>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>> supported but is not yet there. >>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>> Eloquence with its selection of >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>> >>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 02:05:42 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:05:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi: Wow, thanks for the info about the forthcoming Wizzard. Maybe I'll just wait until the wizzard comes out, depending on how it good it is to modernize. It sounds fantastic and really versatile much more so than the current blindness-specific notetakers on the market right now. Since my pacmate technically works fine, I think I'll wait...my pacmate works fine but I was just wondering whether I should modernize considering the other notetakers have better technology. I think I'll wait for the wizzard though! Kerri On 10/21/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college student, > I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would find it very > hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that this is not possible > for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn verses my laptop: > > BN: > Pros > 1. Turns on and off in less than a second > 2. built in speech and Braille display > 3. Braille input > 4. portable > 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me > 6. don't have to use headphones > 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) > > Cons: > 1. does not support certain file types > 2. bad at formatting > 3. slow internet and problems with some websites > 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game > > Laptop: > Pros > 1. fast internet > 2. faster processor > 3. can download third party programs > 4. works with more file types > 5. other people can work with me on it > > Cons: > 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case > 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote (computers > have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) > 3. takes more than a minute to power on > 4. requires Jaws, which can fail > 5. no Braille display > 6. need head phones if going to use in class > 7. can get viruses > > That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I > think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that of > the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you need > the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a laptop. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > >> Hi Curt and All: >> >> First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the >> Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? >> >> Here is my delemma. >> >> I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. >> At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as >> into technology as I am now. >> >> Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the >> Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just >> stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or >> comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into >> computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style >> keyboard would be better for me. >> >> When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he >> time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is >> terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to >> load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you >> have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much >> obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect >> anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use >> it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes >> in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't >> have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. >> >> I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and >> think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then >> I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a >> braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, >> and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I >> think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to >> justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? >> >> But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take >> notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have >> more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? >> >> What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into >> modernizing and getting a better notetaker? >> >> How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish >> or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? >> >> Thanks, >> Kerri >> >> On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Dear Listers, >>> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >>> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >>> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >>> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >>> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >>> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >>> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >>> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >>> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >>> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >>> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >>> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >>> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Danni >>>> >>>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>>> >>>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>>> include it in this comparison. >>>> >>>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>>> megabytes for this purpose. >>>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>>> versions. >>>> chinin >>>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>>> 32 process limit. >>>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>>> bluetooth stack. >>>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>>> not. >>>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>>> Apex does not. >>>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>>> computer's screen. >>>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>>> as well. >>>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>>> networks supported by the Apex. >>>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>>> Apex. >>>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>>> supported but is not yet there. >>>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>>> Eloquence with its selection of >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>>> >>>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 02:19:31 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:19:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Has any one used the braille sense? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college > student, I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would find > it very hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that this is > not possible for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn verses my > laptop: > > BN: > Pros > 1. Turns on and off in less than a second > 2. built in speech and Braille display > 3. Braille input > 4. portable > 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me > 6. don't have to use headphones > 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) > > Cons: > 1. does not support certain file types > 2. bad at formatting > 3. slow internet and problems with some websites > 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game > > Laptop: > Pros > 1. fast internet > 2. faster processor > 3. can download third party programs > 4. works with more file types > 5. other people can work with me on it > > Cons: > 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case > 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote > (computers have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) > 3. takes more than a minute to power on > 4. requires Jaws, which can fail > 5. no Braille display > 6. need head phones if going to use in class > 7. can get viruses > > That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I > think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that of > the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you need > the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a laptop. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > >> Hi Curt and All: >> >> First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the >> Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? >> >> Here is my delemma. >> >> I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. >> At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as >> into technology as I am now. >> >> Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the >> Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just >> stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or >> comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into >> computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style >> keyboard would be better for me. >> >> When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he >> time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is >> terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to >> load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you >> have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much >> obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect >> anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use >> it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes >> in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't >> have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. >> >> I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and >> think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then >> I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a >> braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, >> and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I >> think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to >> justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? >> >> But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take >> notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have >> more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? >> >> What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into >> modernizing and getting a better notetaker? >> >> How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish >> or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? >> >> Thanks, >> Kerri >> >> On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Dear Listers, >>> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >>> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >>> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >>> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >>> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >>> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >>> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >>> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >>> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >>> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >>> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >>> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >>> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Danni >>>> >>>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>>> >>>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>>> include it in this comparison. >>>> >>>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>>> megabytes for this purpose. >>>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>>> versions. >>>> chinin >>>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>>> 32 process limit. >>>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>>> bluetooth stack. >>>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>>> not. >>>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>>> Apex does not. >>>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>>> computer's screen. >>>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>>> as well. >>>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>>> networks supported by the Apex. >>>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>>> Apex. >>>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>>> supported but is not yet there. >>>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>>> Eloquence with its selection of >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>>> >>>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 02:54:38 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:54:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53F3437E-421E-4FCE-9584-8EA4A4F21A16@gmail.com> I have used the Braille Sense. Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:19 PM, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > Has any one used the braille sense? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:27 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > >> It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college student, I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would find it very hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that this is not possible for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn verses my laptop: >> >> BN: >> Pros >> 1. Turns on and off in less than a second >> 2. built in speech and Braille display >> 3. Braille input >> 4. portable >> 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me >> 6. don't have to use headphones >> 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) >> >> Cons: >> 1. does not support certain file types >> 2. bad at formatting >> 3. slow internet and problems with some websites >> 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game >> >> Laptop: >> Pros >> 1. fast internet >> 2. faster processor >> 3. can download third party programs >> 4. works with more file types >> 5. other people can work with me on it >> >> Cons: >> 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case >> 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote (computers have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) >> 3. takes more than a minute to power on >> 4. requires Jaws, which can fail >> 5. no Braille display >> 6. need head phones if going to use in class >> 7. can get viruses >> >> That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that of the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you need the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a laptop. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers >> >> >>> Hi Curt and All: >>> >>> First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the >>> Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? >>> >>> Here is my delemma. >>> >>> I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. >>> At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as >>> into technology as I am now. >>> >>> Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the >>> Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just >>> stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or >>> comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into >>> computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style >>> keyboard would be better for me. >>> >>> When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he >>> time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is >>> terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to >>> load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you >>> have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much >>> obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect >>> anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use >>> it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes >>> in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't >>> have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. >>> >>> I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and >>> think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then >>> I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a >>> braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, >>> and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I >>> think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to >>> justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? >>> >>> But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take >>> notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have >>> more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? >>> >>> What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into >>> modernizing and getting a better notetaker? >>> >>> How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish >>> or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Kerri >>> >>> On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Dear Listers, >>>> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >>>> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >>>> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >>>> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >>>> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >>>> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >>>> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >>>> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >>>> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >>>> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >>>> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >>>> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >>>> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>>>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>>>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>>>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>>>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>>>> >>>>> HTH >>>>> >>>>> Danni >>>>> >>>>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>>>> >>>>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>>>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>>>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>>>> include it in this comparison. >>>>> >>>>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>>>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>>>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>>>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>>>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>>>> megabytes for this purpose. >>>>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>>>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>>>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>>>> versions. >>>>> chinin >>>>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>>>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>>>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>>>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>>>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>>>> 32 process limit. >>>>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>>>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>>>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>>>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>>>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>>>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>>>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>>>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>>>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>>>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>>>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>>>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>>>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>>>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>>>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>>>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>>>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>>>> bluetooth stack. >>>>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>>>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>>>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>>>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>>>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>>>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>>>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>>>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>>>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>>>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>>>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>>>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>>>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>>>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>>>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>>>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>>>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>>>> not. >>>>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>>>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>>>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>>>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>>>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>>>> Apex does not. >>>>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>>>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>>>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>>>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>>>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>>>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>>>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>>>> computer's screen. >>>>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>>>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>>>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>>>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>>>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>>>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>>>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>>>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>>>> as well. >>>>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>>>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>>>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>>>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>>>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>>>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>>>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>>>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>>>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>>>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>>>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>>>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>>>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>>>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>>>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>>>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>>>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>>>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>>>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>>>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>>>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>>>> networks supported by the Apex. >>>>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>>>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>>>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>>>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>>>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>>>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>>>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>>>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>>>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>>>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>>>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>>>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>>>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>>>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>>>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>>>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>>>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>>>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>>>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>>>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>>>> Apex. >>>>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>>>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>>>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>>>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>>>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>>>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>>>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>>>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>>>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>>>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>>>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>>>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>>>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>>>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>>>> supported but is not yet there. >>>>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>>>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>>>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>>>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>>>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>>>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>>>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>>>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>>>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>>>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>>>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>>>> Eloquence with its selection of >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>>>> >>>>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>>>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>>>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>>>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>>>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>>>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>>>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>>>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>>>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>>>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 03:06:28 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:06:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> <53F3437E-421E-4FCE-9584-8EA4A4F21A16@gmail.com> Message-ID: <17AD971F83D145AA89CC0DEF3F42B4A0@hometwxakonvzn> What was your experence with it? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers >I have used the Braille Sense. > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:19 PM, "RJ Sandefur" > wrote: > >> Has any one used the braille sense? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers >> >> >>> It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college >>> student, I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would >>> find it very hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that >>> this is not possible for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn >>> verses my laptop: >>> >>> BN: >>> Pros >>> 1. Turns on and off in less than a second >>> 2. built in speech and Braille display >>> 3. Braille input >>> 4. portable >>> 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me >>> 6. don't have to use headphones >>> 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) >>> >>> Cons: >>> 1. does not support certain file types >>> 2. bad at formatting >>> 3. slow internet and problems with some websites >>> 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game >>> >>> Laptop: >>> Pros >>> 1. fast internet >>> 2. faster processor >>> 3. can download third party programs >>> 4. works with more file types >>> 5. other people can work with me on it >>> >>> Cons: >>> 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case >>> 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote >>> (computers have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) >>> 3. takes more than a minute to power on >>> 4. requires Jaws, which can fail >>> 5. no Braille display >>> 6. need head phones if going to use in class >>> 7. can get viruses >>> >>> That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I >>> think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that >>> of the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you >>> need the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a >>> laptop. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers >>> >>> >>>> Hi Curt and All: >>>> >>>> First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the >>>> Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? >>>> >>>> Here is my delemma. >>>> >>>> I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. >>>> At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as >>>> into technology as I am now. >>>> >>>> Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the >>>> Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just >>>> stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or >>>> comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into >>>> computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style >>>> keyboard would be better for me. >>>> >>>> When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he >>>> time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is >>>> terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to >>>> load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you >>>> have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much >>>> obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect >>>> anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use >>>> it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes >>>> in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't >>>> have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. >>>> >>>> I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and >>>> think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then >>>> I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a >>>> braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, >>>> and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I >>>> think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to >>>> justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? >>>> >>>> But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take >>>> notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have >>>> more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? >>>> >>>> What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into >>>> modernizing and getting a better notetaker? >>>> >>>> How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish >>>> or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Kerri >>>> >>>> On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> Dear Listers, >>>>> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >>>>> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >>>>> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >>>>> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >>>>> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >>>>> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >>>>> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >>>>> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >>>>> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >>>>> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >>>>> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >>>>> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >>>>> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>>>>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>>>>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>>>>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>>>>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH >>>>>> >>>>>> Danni >>>>>> >>>>>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>>>>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>>>>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>>>>> include it in this comparison. >>>>>> >>>>>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>>>>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>>>>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>>>>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>>>>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>>>>> megabytes for this purpose. >>>>>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>>>>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>>>>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>>>>> versions. >>>>>> chinin >>>>>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>>>>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>>>>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>>>>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>>>>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>>>>> 32 process limit. >>>>>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>>>>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>>>>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>>>>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>>>>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>>>>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>>>>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>>>>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>>>>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>>>>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>>>>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>>>>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>>>>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>>>>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>>>>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>>>>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>>>>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>>>>> bluetooth stack. >>>>>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>>>>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>>>>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>>>>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>>>>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>>>>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>>>>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>>>>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>>>>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>>>>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>>>>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>>>>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>>>>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>>>>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>>>>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>>>>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>>>>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>>>>> not. >>>>>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>>>>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>>>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>>>>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>>>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>>>>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>>>>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>>>>> Apex does not. >>>>>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>>>>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>>>>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>>>>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>>>>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>>>>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>>>>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>>>>> computer's screen. >>>>>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>>>>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>>>>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>>>>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>>>>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>>>>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>>>>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>>>>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>>>>> as well. >>>>>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>>>>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>>>>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>>>>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>>>>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>>>>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>>>>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>>>>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>>>>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>>>>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>>>>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>>>>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>>>>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>>>>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>>>>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>>>>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>>>>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>>>>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>>>>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>>>>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>>>>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>>>>> networks supported by the Apex. >>>>>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>>>>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>>>>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>>>>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>>>>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>>>>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>>>>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>>>>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>>>>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>>>>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>>>>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>>>>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>>>>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>>>>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>>>>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>>>>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>>>>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>>>>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>>>>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>>>>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>>>>> Apex. >>>>>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>>>>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>>>>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>>>>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>>>>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>>>>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>>>>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>>>>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>>>>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>>>>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>>>>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>>>>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>>>>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>>>>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>>>>> supported but is not yet there. >>>>>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>>>>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>>>>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>>>>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>>>>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>>>>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>>>>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>>>>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>>>>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>>>>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>>>>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>>>>> Eloquence with its selection of >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>>>>> >>>>>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>>>>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>>>>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>>>>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>>>>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>>>>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>>>>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>>>>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>>>>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>>>>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From hypoplexer at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 03:10:31 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:10:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers Message-ID: <4cc100c2.031fec0a.3322.69cc@mx.google.com> Yes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" wrote: Dear Listers, Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to start, and then having to open such and such application to do my thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. All the best, Kirt On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: Hi all, I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. HTH Danni Courtesy: Alex Hall. Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to include it in this comparison. chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 megabytes for this purpose. chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t versions. chinin chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a 32 process limit. chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with Microsoft Windows computers. chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 bluetooth stack. chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same way, but it cannot be recorded. chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does not. chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the Apex does not. chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the computer's screen. chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future as well. chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the networks supported by the Apex. chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer braille in text documents and web page forms. chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the Apex. chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your email download in the background while you read a book. The Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be supported but is not yet there. chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to facilitate easy manipulation of media. chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has Eloquence with its selection of ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" Message-ID: Hi Kirt, Yes I agree and that is why its disappointing to hear discussingions like which is better: laptop or notetaker or should I get this or that? I have a Braille note mpower and do not use the internet functions. Its so true. Both have advantages and I think a blind person needs both although you can survive with one or the other. Use the notetaker for instant notetaking and tracking important things like appointments and phone numbers. Its more portable and has a longer battery life than the laptop. But as you said if you want a computer with great internet capability and formatting documents, then get the laptop or desktop. Both have their places and we should use all tools in the tool box. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > Dear Kerri and everyone, > A notetaker isn't supposed to be a computer. Mine is slow on the > internet, but that's not really what I use it for. Yeah, it's loads > better than the PAC Mate in terms of the technology it has. But, five > years ago, the PAC Mate had the edge, in my humble opinion. > But basicly, I don't think that really matters. If you're using a > notetaker as a notetaker, then whatever works is good. I happen to > think I'm going to be much more efficient with my Apex (which I've had > for exactly one week now once I really figure it out,, than I ever was > with my PAC mate. But there's no need for me to use the slow web > browser to surf the internet when I have a desktop computer which is > perfectly capable of doing the same thing. Although, I will say, I > love checking email on my apex. Humanware did great there. > So that post was kind of disjointed. Basicly, what I'm saying is > this. Notetakers should be used to take notes and keep track of > important things. They aren't meant to be computers. If you want a > computer, get a laptop. But if you want to be able to take notes > fast, wherever you are, and be portable, efficient and quick, I think > whatever notetaker you like best is the best way to go. Of course, > that's assuming you can afford it or get the financial help you need > to buy it. > Just my two cents, take them or leave them. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > > On 10/21/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: >> Hi Curt and All: >> >> First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the >> Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? >> >> Here is my delemma. >> >> I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. >> At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as >> into technology as I am now. >> >> Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the >> Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just >> stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or >> comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into >> computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style >> keyboard would be better for me. >> >> When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he >> time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is >> terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to >> load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you >> have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much >> obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect >> anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use >> it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes >> in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't >> have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. >> >> I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and >> think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then >> I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a >> braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, >> and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I >> think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to >> justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? >> >> But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take >> notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have >> more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? >> >> What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into >> modernizing and getting a better notetaker? >> >> How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish >> or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? >> >> Thanks, >> Kerri >> >> On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Dear Listers, >>> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >>> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >>> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >>> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >>> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >>> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >>> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >>> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >>> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >>> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >>> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >>> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >>> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Danni >>>> >>>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>>> >>>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>>> include it in this comparison. >>>> >>>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>>> megabytes for this purpose. >>>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>>> versions. >>>> chinin >>>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>>> 32 process limit. >>>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>>> bluetooth stack. >>>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>>> not. >>>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>>> Apex does not. >>>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>>> computer's screen. >>>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>>> as well. >>>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>>> networks supported by the Apex. >>>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>>> Apex. >>>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>>> supported but is not yet there. >>>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>>> Eloquence with its selection of >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>>> >>>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From graduate56 at juno.com Fri Oct 22 04:39:09 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:39:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <331D524775D64CFDA3E91CFC48C24AF3@melissa> I use a braille sense as my notetaker. I also use my victor reader stream, and if batteries die, there is always the slate and stylus. I think that many students get so caught up in technology that they don't plan for any kind of life without technology. I don't need live readers, I have the knfb reader, or rfb&D downloads. I also don't have to use any other "old-fashioned things either", like the library for the blind, and or any kind of notetaker or screen-reader." I have all of this wonderful technology that is wonderful. For me, I use the "old-fashion and the new technology." That is because I am one that believes that you use all of the things that are at your disposal. Lol! Blessings! Melissa Green "Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome." (Arthur Ashe, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college > student, I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would find > it very hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that this is > not possible for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn verses my > laptop: > > BN: > Pros > 1. Turns on and off in less than a second > 2. built in speech and Braille display > 3. Braille input > 4. portable > 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me > 6. don't have to use headphones > 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) > > Cons: > 1. does not support certain file types > 2. bad at formatting > 3. slow internet and problems with some websites > 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game > > Laptop: > Pros > 1. fast internet > 2. faster processor > 3. can download third party programs > 4. works with more file types > 5. other people can work with me on it > > Cons: > 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case > 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote > (computers have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) > 3. takes more than a minute to power on > 4. requires Jaws, which can fail > 5. no Braille display > 6. need head phones if going to use in class > 7. can get viruses > > That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I > think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that of > the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you need > the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a laptop. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > >> Hi Curt and All: >> >> First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the >> Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? >> >> Here is my delemma. >> >> I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. >> At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as >> into technology as I am now. >> >> Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the >> Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just >> stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or >> comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into >> computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style >> keyboard would be better for me. >> >> When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he >> time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is >> terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to >> load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you >> have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much >> obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect >> anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use >> it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes >> in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't >> have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. >> >> I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and >> think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then >> I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a >> braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, >> and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I >> think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to >> justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? >> >> But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take >> notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have >> more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? >> >> What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into >> modernizing and getting a better notetaker? >> >> How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish >> or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? >> >> Thanks, >> Kerri >> >> On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Dear Listers, >>> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >>> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >>> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >>> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >>> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >>> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >>> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >>> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >>> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >>> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >>> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >>> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >>> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Danni >>>> >>>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>>> >>>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>>> include it in this comparison. >>>> >>>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>>> megabytes for this purpose. >>>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>>> versions. >>>> chinin >>>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>>> 32 process limit. >>>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>>> bluetooth stack. >>>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>>> not. >>>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>>> Apex does not. >>>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>>> computer's screen. >>>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>>> as well. >>>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>>> networks supported by the Apex. >>>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>>> Apex. >>>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>>> supported but is not yet there. >>>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>>> Eloquence with its selection of >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>>> >>>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 22 13:31:53 2010 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:31:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceNote MPower for sale Message-ID: <17DBB523-5EA1-43FD-B0F9-FC6BBE1D92FB@sbcglobal.net> Good morning all, I'm posting the following for a friend. *** Hey, all. I'm currently trying to sell a VoiceNote mPower with a QWERTY keyboard (which is a regular, computer-style keyboard). It's in great condition; has only been used 2 or 3 times; and I'm willing to negotiate on the price. Please see details below. Thanks! Stacy FOR SALE: VoiceNote mPower with a QWERTY keyboard (which is a regular, laoptop-style keyboard). Also includes: the carrying case with shoulder strap, Keysoft version 7.0 installed on the unit, Keysoft version 7.0 CD-ROM, AC power adaptor, regular print User's Guide, electronic version of the User's Guide installed on the VoiceNote itself, large print command summary, Audio tutorial CD, headphones, 9 point serial cable, and a 9 to 25 pin adaptor plug. The unit was purchased in 2006 and has only been used 2 or 3 times. It's in like-new condition. Asking $750 or best offer. Willing to negotiate. Please contact Stacy at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com or (708) 359-3301. From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 13:45:33 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:45:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC1957D.2070608@gmail.com> Hi I got a american printing house for the blind, braille plus notetaker. it runs Linux, is very easy to use. I also got a refreshabraille to use with it and my apple computer. the braille plus works great. I also plan on getting the kapten gps from independent living aids as soon as I sell some old stuff and make enough money off of the old stuff. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 13:46:49 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:46:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC195C9.7060908@gmail.com> Hi and if you want a really cheap notetaker and don't want jaws or windows. why not go with a netbook, wipe windows off it and use vinux with voxin as its speech and a refreshabraille? vinux works great as a notetaker with vinux running on the netbook. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:22:46 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:22:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC1AC46.5040704@gmail.com> Hi I can't speak for the apex. but my braille plus is nice and fast. internet on it is fast. it uses the firefox browser. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:25:00 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:25:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC1ACCC.3060807@gmail.com> Hi my braille plus has bluetooth, word processor, calculator, stopwatch web browser, email, and more. it can play nls, bookshare and rfbd books. Also my netbook which now has vinux installed onto it with voxin/eloquence speech can pretty much do the same thing. Linux is a nice stable operating system and when you give it a accessible graphical interface and screen reader it behaves much like windows or the mac. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:26:38 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:26:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC1AD2E.8060009@gmail.com> Hi my braille plus has wifi and bluetooth built in also. I can connect flash drives and passport drives to it. I can even use it with bluetooth and usb keyboards meant for computers. so although it is a braille notetaker, I can turn it into a qwerty notetaker with a bluetooth keyboard attached or usb keyboard. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:28:49 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:28:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille wizard notetaker Message-ID: <4CC1ADB1.3080702@gmail.com> Hi I think notetakers will come down in price. I can't wait to see the braille wizard notetaker in two years. it'll run on google android/linux have a compass bluetooth, gps, built in and stuff. Josh From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:40:21 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:40:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The future of Notetakers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BB02A48-19D8-48AB-9379-A7E67598670B@gmail.com> Anyone interested in purchasing a notetaker should take a look at the new 11 inch macbook air. I can tell you that it works very very well, and as always it's accessible out of the box. Mine boots in about 15 seconds if it's off, and if it's just in sleep mode it literally wakes up instantly. Mainly it's very, very small and thin. If you want you can use braille displays with it. If you can afford it ($999) I would suggest that you go to an Apple Store and give it a try. It's much cheaper than any of the braille notetakers and it's really great. On Oct 21, 2010, at 7:53 PM, Anjelina wrote: > Hi all, > Since we've been discussing notetakers I have a few questions. > 1. do you feel notetakers have as much of a hold on the blindness community as they did say when Blazie was around? > My first notetaker was the Braille 'n Speak and during my first year of college I used the M20. It seems the notetaker options are starting to slim down. > I think mainstream tech is starting to catch up and notetakers are in some ways lagging behind. > 2. Why are Notetakers so expensive when they function similarly to a computer? > 3. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about your studies, and if it's using an Apex or combination of Netbook with Braille display and it works for you that's what matters. What were your major deciding factors in what technology you use for classes? > Hopefully the manufacturers take into consideration the resolution passed at this years national convention regarding integrating their products with mainstream tech. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:42:21 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:42:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers and vinux Message-ID: <4CC1B0DD.3040904@gmail.com> Hi advantages of using vinux on your laptop. 1. run windows in a virtual machine. very very easy to do. 2. vinux doesn't get viruses. 3. braille displays are detected automatically. 4. voxin is easy to install. if you can copy and paste or know how to type you can easily install and use it. 5. vinux is free. 6. voxin costs $5 for one license. 7. vinux supports bluetooth, wifi and ethernet connections, twitter, facebook, msn and other chatting protocols, and more including internet radio current weather at the touch of a keystroke, a dictionary email, calculator, the dictionary is the webster dictionary and at the top it gives you foreign language translations of the word... openoffice word processor spreadsheet, powerpoint and more. vinux is a working system and is constantly being updated. easily update using update manager. many graphical and text-based programs to choose from. includes orca for the windowslike interface, and yasr and speakup for the text only console. vinux does not get viruses. 8. vinux will easily handle your flash drives, passport drives and more. two file explorer programs that work good. it can detect and use wireless usb adapters and usb headphones as wel. vmware player works with it. use vmware player to run windows xp inside vinux as if it were just another program. can't see to install xp or win7? don't worry the easy install found in vmware player which is free will install windows and set it up for you. just provide a windows screen reader like the latest nvda or system access and you're good to go. vinux is both 32bit and 64bit. install mutiple sound themes for some variety by copying and pasting a command or using the graphical package manager. voxin/eloquence is multilingual. orca will let you read braille with your display in many different languages. the vinux interface itself can be changed to another language with relative ease. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:43:46 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:43:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids Message-ID: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> Hi Has anyone used the kapten gps by independent living aids? Josh From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:46:30 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:46:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids In-Reply-To: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> References: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> Message-ID: Kapsys (I think that's how you spell it) makes the Kapten. It works fine, but it's not very precise. I got kind of frustrated with it... On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > Has anyone used the kapten gps by independent living aids? > > Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 16:17:20 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:17:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille+ In-Reply-To: <3026AC8604624B45BAA0CFDF19191BB7@Rufus> References: <4CC1AC46.5040704@gmail.com> <3026AC8604624B45BAA0CFDF19191BB7@Rufus> Message-ID: <4CC1B910.7000608@gmail.com> On 10/22/2010 11:59 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hi Josh, > > Are you able to do word processing on your notetaker? I know there's a Word > Processer application installed, but I wasn't sure how much editing you can > do on it. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:23 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers > > Hi > > I can't speak for the apex. but my braille plus is nice and fast. > internet on it is fast. it uses the firefox browser. > > Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > Hi Oh yes it has a word processor. It is basic kind of like wordpad with a spellchecker. but its a notetaker and I don't expect it to have a full word processor in it. it can open and save word documents both 2007 2010 and 2003 documents and text and rtf and stuff. Vinux can do much more though because it has openoffice installed. but on my notetaker you can gain access to the console and write your own software for the notetaker or use software that works with speakup. Josh From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 16:45:45 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:45:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers and vinux In-Reply-To: <4CC1B0DD.3040904@gmail.com> References: <4CC1B0DD.3040904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2E5201E357564B45892AEEE552810415@Rufus> I'm intrigued by all this information about the Linux system, but I have to say the synthesizer on this Vinux reader is a little disappointing. I can't help being an Eloquence snob! I don't suppose it's possible to switch the voice? Doesn't the Braille+ use Eloquence? Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:42 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers and vinux Hi advantages of using vinux on your laptop. 1. run windows in a virtual machine. very very easy to do. 2. vinux doesn't get viruses. 3. braille displays are detected automatically. 4. voxin is easy to install. if you can copy and paste or know how to type you can easily install and use it. 5. vinux is free. 6. voxin costs $5 for one license. 7. vinux supports bluetooth, wifi and ethernet connections, twitter, facebook, msn and other chatting protocols, and more including internet radio current weather at the touch of a keystroke, a dictionary email, calculator, the dictionary is the webster dictionary and at the top it gives you foreign language translations of the word... openoffice word processor spreadsheet, powerpoint and more. vinux is a working system and is constantly being updated. easily update using update manager. many graphical and text-based programs to choose from. includes orca for the windowslike interface, and yasr and speakup for the text only console. vinux does not get viruses. 8. vinux will easily handle your flash drives, passport drives and more. two file explorer programs that work good. it can detect and use wireless usb adapters and usb headphones as wel. vmware player works with it. use vmware player to run windows xp inside vinux as if it were just another program. can't see to install xp or win7? don't worry the easy install found in vmware player which is free will install windows and set it up for you. just provide a windows screen reader like the latest nvda or system access and you're good to go. vinux is both 32bit and 64bit. install mutiple sound themes for some variety by copying and pasting a command or using the graphical package manager. voxin/eloquence is multilingual. orca will let you read braille with your display in many different languages. the vinux interface itself can be changed to another language with relative ease. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 16:57:13 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:57:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my experience of laptops versus notetakers from a different perspective Message-ID: <00e101cb720a$2f4101e0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: While in university I used a Braille Lite 18 in combination with a Windows PC. The Braille Lite 18 in school for the purposes you guys described (taking quick notes, taking notes during lectures, starting written assignments which I then transfered to the PC via the floppy disc, thus completing the formats and other elaborate details using Microsoft Word I believe 97, keeping tracks of appointments, phone numbers and the like), however the Braille Lite died and because here in Mexico the FS distributor doesn't take some things into consideration) I left it as a museum piece to recall the old days. Afterwards my desktop power supply died, thus getting a laptop which I've had now for about four and a hafl years. Now my experiences between notetakers and laptops, especially from a perspective of living in a country where, as I said before, the FS distributor here has a lot to be desired, is that though I miss the quickness with which one can power on the notetaker and quickly retrieve info (my laptop using Windows XP takes about five or ten minutes to be ready to use rather then a notetaker's instantly being available) what happens if the notetaker dies or gets a virus or whatever goes wrong? You're dead in the water! Now take the case of my laptop having to be reformated or repaired? It's a lot easier since I can get any computer tech to fix it, reformat it or do whatever needs to be done; jaws installation and other blindness-related software gets installed afterwards by oneself, but at least you're not as dead in the water with a laptop as with if you only have the notetaker to rely on! Now take the cell phones: Aren't they so smart now that you can use them as notetakers in terms of being able to record appointments and the phone will let you know of these? Also aren't these new phones able to store contacts and other info like the sighted people can go in and retrieve this info? So how about using combination of laptop and cell phones? If the phone needs repair one only needs to take it to any repair place and once repaired and having installed Talx or Mobile Speak you're off to go! So probably my question would be for those of us living outside the US where FS or other blindness product companies maybe don't have reliavle distributors or these products are too expensive because of bringing them from abroad, aren't we nearly at the same playing field level as you guys who use blindness products with us using mainstream products? Gerardo From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 17:16:34 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:16:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC1C6F2.708@gmail.com> Hi My vinux netbook boots in about 15 sconds and it has a regular hard drive. if you want a vinux netbook or a netbook that will be assured to work great and have a solid state drive just go to http://system76.com Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 17:18:33 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:18:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps Message-ID: <4CC1C769.8010705@gmail.com> Hi can you tell me how imprecise the kapten gps is? I have a nokia e51 with loadstone and a bluetooth gps receiver and its acfuracy is within 5 yards or so usualy between 3 to 5 yard, 10 yards on a bad weather day. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 17:19:40 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:19:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4CC1C7AC.9070609@gmail.com> Hi I can do word processing. its word processor is like wordpad with a spellchecker. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 17:21:20 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:21:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker Message-ID: <4CC1C810.8010408@gmail.com> Hi ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 17:22:40 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:22:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] vinux Message-ID: <4CC1C860.5090901@gmail.com> oh guys just a note, voxin and eloquenc are the exact same thing just packaged under different names. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 17:25:31 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:25:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] vinux Message-ID: <4CC1C90B.20908@gmail.com> Hi oh yeah and vinux is kind of like the mac. you can install it, reformat your pc and do a fresh install without any sighted help because when it boots up it starts talking and has braille support all ready to go for you. Josh From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Oct 22 18:09:50 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:09:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids References: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does the Capten run with a phone or is it a stand alone device? Does it state the intersection type as well as the street names? I heard its not too precise. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:43 AM Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids > Hi > > Has anyone used the kapten gps by independent living aids? > > Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From hypoplexer at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 19:07:17 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:07:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] notetakers Message-ID: <4cc1e102.096ee60a.73b4.7d9e@mx.google.com> Hi, I've also used the Braille Plus, and I like it, however, the telephone-style keyboard isn't really up my alley. Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Kennedy References: <4cc0bc8d.c78de50a.774f.5ead@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <729FB7B39CFC4442930C64F9725DC9BD@BeckySabo> Hi everyone, I have a net book and I like it a lot for school it is so light to bring it back and forth. But I have to use headphones when I use it at school. I wish I had anote taker. How would I propose to get one from my state? Becky Sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers It really depends on what you are going to use it for. As a college student, I have both a laptop and an MPower BrailleNote, and I would find it very hard to choose one or he other. However, I realize that this is not possible for some people. Here are my thoughts on my bn verses my laptop: BN: Pros 1. Turns on and off in less than a second 2. built in speech and Braille display 3. Braille input 4. portable 5. don't have to worry about Jaws quitting on me 6. don't have to use headphones 7. not vulnerable to viruses (may not be true for other notetakers) Cons: 1. does not support certain file types 2. bad at formatting 3. slow internet and problems with some websites 4. no third party software unless it is a web application or a z game Laptop: Pros 1. fast internet 2. faster processor 3. can download third party programs 4. works with more file types 5. other people can work with me on it Cons: 1. bigger and harder to transport; does not have built in carrying case 2. particular model is slightly easier to damage than BrailleNote (computers have spinning hard drives where as the bn uses flash memory) 3. takes more than a minute to power on 4. requires Jaws, which can fail 5. no Braille display 6. need head phones if going to use in class 7. can get viruses That's all that I can think of at the moment, but I will write more if I think of more. If you want something with functionality similar to that of the Braille n Speak, then a bn, pm, or bs would be fine, but, if you need the functionality of a computer, I would recommend getting a laptop. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > Hi Curt and All: > > First, for those who have the Pacmate what made you switch to the > Braille Note whether it be Apex or one of the other ones? > > Here is my delemma. > > I had the option of getting a notetaker about five years ago in 2006. > At that time, I didn't know how to research very well and wasn't as > into technology as I am now. > > Having used Jaws and liking it, and seeing that pocket Jaws was on the > Pacmate and it ran windows which was the same OS I was using, I just > stupidly decided on the Pacmate without doing much other research or > comparing the pacmate to other notetakers. Also, because I was so into > computers at that time, I got the QX pacmate thinking the laptop style > keyboard would be better for me. > > When I first got the Pacmate it was nice and I played with it all he > time. But, now I hardly use it. First of all, the internet on it is > terrible...very very very slow. It takes forever for a webpage to > load. Also, the Pacmate doesn't have an internal wi-fi card so you > have to use one of those compact flash cards which are pretty much > obselete now. The Pacmate only has a mini usb port so to connect > anything to USB you have to use an external object. All I find I use > it for now is reading BRF books from NLS or Bookshare and taking notes > in class. The Pacmate doesn't even have bluetooth! It also doesn't > have sd card slots...only ones for those obselete compact flash cards. > > I look at more modern notetakers like the Apex and get excited and > think...I should look into modernizing and get one of those. But, then > I think...I have the pacmate (even though I hate it) that does have a > braille display, I have a netbook, I have a laptop, I have an Iphone, > and I want to get an Ipad...that essentially all do the same thing. I > think...would I really use a newer more modern notetaker enough to > justify the $6000 price when I have all these other devices? > > But, then if I had a notetaker that I could just whip open and take > notes portably, or write contact info down quickly, and could have > more functionality I wonder if I'd use it more? > > What do you think I should do...stick with what I have or look into > modernizing and getting a better notetaker? > > How is the Internet browsing on the apex? Is it very slow and sluggish > or is it fast like wireless internet on laptops and netbooks is? > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 10/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear Listers, >> Even with the netbooks and braille displays out there, I still use >> my notetaker. (I just got an apex and I love it, although switching >> over from the PAC Mate has been kind of hard) I know laptops with >> braille displays are cheaper. But, for me, having a notetaker as >> opposed to a computer in school/church/wherever is a godsend. I can, >> for instance, whip out my Apex and put someone's phone number in my >> contact list without waiting 1-3 minutes for my computer to start and >> get a file somewhere open. It's so nice to have instant access to >> everything, without having to wait for the laptop to load up, jaws to >> start, and then having to open such and such application to do my >> thing. It's so much easier to turn on a machine, usee 1 or maybe 2 >> keystrokes, and be right where I need to be within seconds. That's >> why I still have my notetaker because a computer just can't do that. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 10/21/10, Danielle Montour wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am a BrailleNote Apy user, the latest >>> notetaker. Although the Apex has great potential, there's some >>> work to be done on it. It's a good don't get me wrong, don't get >>> me wrong, it just has room for improvement. Here is a comparison >>> between the BrailleNote Apex and BrailleSense Plus. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Danni >>> >>> Courtesy: Alex Hall. >>> >>> Here is a look at the BrailleNote Apex and its closest >>> competitor, the Braille Sense Plus (from GW Micro). I do not >>> know enough about the Pac Mate Omni (Freedom scientific) to >>> include it in this comparison. >>> >>> chinin Internal Storage: the BSP has 8 gigabytes of storage. >>> The Apex has 8 gigabytes as well. >>> chinin RAM: The BSP has 128 megabytes of RAM, as does the Apex. >>> However, the Apex has an additional 126 megabytes of storage for >>> operating system and temporary files, whereas the BSP has 64 >>> megabytes for this purpose. >>> chinin Processor: the BSP's processor, type unknown, runs at >>> 400 megahertz. The FreeScale IMX31 processor in the Apex runs at >>> 520megahertz. Both the BSP and the Apex processors are 32-29t >>> versions. >>> chinin >>> chinin Underlying Windows CE The BSP runs on CE 5.0. While >>> this is an improvement over the BrailleNote mPower's CE 4.2, it >>> is not as good as the Apex's CE 6.0, which allows for many new >>> features to be introduced, namely better RAM management and tens >>> of thousands of processes to run concurrently; CE 5 still has a >>> 32 process limit. >>> chinin USB: the BSP has 2 (1?) USB master port(s) for storage >>> devices, printers, keyboards, and so on. The Apex has 3 USB >>> master ports for these purposes. The BSP has one mini USB port, >>> used to connect it to a computer to connect to ActiveSync or use >>> as a removable disk. The Apex also has one mini USB port, though >>> it cannot act as a removable device. Unlike the BSP, though, it >>> can synchronize its contacts, calendar, and other items with >>> Microsoft Windows computers. >>> chinin Other Storage Options: The BSP has both an SD card slot, >>> which supports SDHC cards as well as standard SD cards, and a >>> compactflash card slot. It can also use its bluetooth to >>> transfer files between itself and any other bluetooth device >>> supporting object exchange. The Apex has an SD card slot >>> supporting regular and high-capacity (HC) cards. It does not, >>> however, have a compactflash card slot, nor does it support >>> bluetooth object exchange, though Humanware could add this option >>> to Keysoft with little trouble thanks to the new Windows CE 6 >>> bluetooth stack. >>> chinin Audio: Both devices have built in stereo speakers, >>> stereo headphone jacks, external mono microphone jacks, and a >>> mono internal microphone. The Apex also supports bluetooth audio >>> devices, the BSP does not. Both devices can create recordings >>> via either microphone, with adjustable microphone gains and >>> quality levels, however the BSP can record in MP3 format or WAV >>> format, whereas the Apex only supports the larger WAV format >>> (maybe). The Apex contains an FM radio internally and uses >>> anything plugged into the headphone jack as an antenna. The >>> radio can be recorded as though it were another input source for >>> the recorder. The BSP also has a radio which works in the same >>> way, but it cannot be recorded. >>> chinin Wireless Communication Both devices contain both an >>> internal BstG wifi card and an internal bluetooth 2.1 card. >>> chinin Battery Both devices have about the same battery life, >>> and both contain a removable battery. The Apex has a way to >>> charge the battery outside of the computer itself, the BSP does >>> not. >>> chinin Jacks and Ports BSP: two master USB, one slave (mini) >>> USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, compactflash slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Apex: 3 master USB, >>> 1 slave (mini) USB, cable ethernet, VGA, SDSTSDHC slot, mono >>> microphone, stereo headphone, AC power port. Basically, they are >>> the same except that the Apex has one more master USB port than >>> the BSP, and the BSP has a compactflash card slot whereas the >>> Apex does not. >>> chinin Visual Output The BSP can print what is spoken or >>> brailled to a monitor through its VGA port, or through its >>> built-in LcD display. The Apex can also print to a monitor with >>> its VGA port, or through use of a Windows program called KeyView. >>> This means that the Apex can connect to a Windows computer via >>> USB or bluetooth (or through serial using a serial-USB >>> converter). KeyView will then display the Apex's text on the >>> computer's screen. >>> chinin Microsoft Word 2007 Neither device currently supports >>> the disdocx (Word 2007) format. Humanware has promised that the >>> Apex will handle disdocx files in the near future, providing a >>> free upgrade to all Apex owners so they can have this support for >>> free when it is released. GW Micro has not commented on Word >>> 2007 support, though another device of theirs, a digital book >>> reader called the Book Sense, does support Word 2007, so it is >>> likely that the BSP will support this format in the near future >>> as well. >>> chinin Internet Communication: Both devices have a web browser, >>> an email program, and an instant messenger. The BSP's browser >>> cannot handle cookies like the Apex can, but that is the only >>> major difference between the two. The email programs are pretty >>> well matched, except for one under-the-hood difference: the Apex >>> stores all emails in a database, making it difficult to copy a >>> message somewhere else for storage; copying the text is easy >>> enough, but copying the message headers along with the text is >>> all but impossible without going through a lot of tedious steps. >>> The BSP stores its messages as diseml files, allowing users to >>> not only copy entire emails to different locations, but to view >>> these messages on other Windows computers. The BSP also allows >>> users to view HTML-encoded messages as web pages; the Apex, as >>> far as I know will not let you do this, though it may be the case >>> that it is, in fact, possible. The instant messenger on the BSP >>> only supports Windows Live (formerly known as MSN) Messenger, >>> though this is a very popular network. The Apex supports all >>> XMPP networks, which include, but are not limited to, Google >>> Talk, IC-HAT, and Jabber. The Apex, essentially, supports a >>> range of less popular networks, whereas the BSP supports only one >>> network, but that one network is very widely used compared to the >>> networks supported by the Apex. >>> chinin Braille Codes and Languages The Apex supports 6 and 8 >>> dot computer braille, grade 1, grade 2, and UEB, plus it has >>> computer Braille tables for English, French, Spanish, and Italian >>> and it can speak in those languages. The BSP supports only >>> English computer braille (6 or 8 dot unknown), grade 1, and grade >>> 2. However, the BSP will let you write in any grade, even in a >>> text document or on a web page; the Apex allows only computer >>> braille in text documents and web page forms. >>> chinin Braille Scrolling and Navigation The BSP has four keys, >>> two on either side of the Braille display for moving the Braille, >>> for navigation, as well as four function keys for quickly >>> switching tasks, closing programs, and performing other basic >>> tasks. The Apex has four thumb keys on its front, where the >>> thumbs naturally rest while reading Braille. These keys act like >>> the scroll keys on the BSP, except they are more conveniently >>> placed. The Apex also has a scroll wheel, which lets you quickly >>> scroll through lists and files. The wheel also has a button in >>> the center to act as an enter key, and four buttons arount the >>> outside edge to act as hotkeys for commonly used keystrokes, such >>> as calling up the help prompt for the given situation on the >>> Apex. >>> chinin Multi-Tasking The BSP can run 7 programs at once; you >>> could leave your wordprocessor open while you quickly switch to >>> your email to read something, then leave the email open to go the >>> the file manager to copy a couple files... For this reason, the >>> BSP contains task manager, which is a large part of the >>> functionality of the four function keys. The Apex cannot, as far >>> as I know, do this. You can leave a media file playing in the >>> background or do other things on the Apex while you wait for your >>> machine to connect to a wireless networo, but you cannot let your >>> email download in the background while you read a book. The >>> Apex, though, now (thanks to CE6) has the ability to do a lot of >>> multi-tasking, far exceeding the BSP's limit of 7 applications at >>> once, though such functionality is not yet implemented in >>> Keysoft, much like bluetooth object exchange could easily be >>> supported but is not yet there. >>> chinin External Media Controls Tge Apex has only one media key: >>> the record button. The BSP has buttons on its front, where the >>> Apex's toumb keys are, for skipping tracks, recording, playing, >>> pausing, and so forth, not to mention its media switch, which >>> lets you select a mode for your media keys: media, DAISY, and FM >>> radio. While both machines support playing media, playing DAISY >>> files, and an FM radio, only the BSP has external buttons to >>> facilitate easy manipulation of media. >>> chinin Synthesizers: The Apex comes with two speech >>> synthesizers: Keynote Gold, which supports only one voice, and >>> Eloquence, with five voices to choose from. The BSP only has >>> Eloquence with its selection of >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:36:18 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers >>> >>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and >>> its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, >>> How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised >>> concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a >>> braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some >>> other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning >>> Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not >>> shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have >>> alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to >>> assist me in this reguard? RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c om From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 21:23:18 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:23:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Linux Cost In-Reply-To: <4CC1C810.8010408@gmail.com> References: <4CC1C810.8010408@gmail.com> Message-ID: I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do you truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer going to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker Hi ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 22:42:15 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:42:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9828E424-44EE-4F34-92E4-A9CFE3F8737D@gmail.com> This solution will probably not feel natural to some listers, but I would take a serious look at the iPad from Apple. There will certainly be a learning curve for users new to apple products, but these things have the ability to run third party applications that are incredibly versatile, and they cost a fraction of the price of a $5000 note-taker. I use a braille sense, but am not sure how good the support will be with Hims taking over their own baby here in the united states, and GW Micro stepping out of the picture. My next note-taker if you really care will be from Apple. Antonio On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:36 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to assist me in this reguard? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Oct 23 22:09:26 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] linux Message-ID: <4CC35D16.4020809@gmail.com> Hi most retailers force you to buy computers with windows. If you want Linux you have to wipe windows and install Linux. Josh From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 04:51:25 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:51:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers In-Reply-To: <9828E424-44EE-4F34-92E4-A9CFE3F8737D@gmail.com> References: <9828E424-44EE-4F34-92E4-A9CFE3F8737D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A73F2A4-4220-4300-9C97-2AAA47E399B9@gmail.com> I agree. I would even say that these days an iPhone or iPod touch ends up being a great notetaker. As of iOS 4.1 you can control VoiceOver from the keyboard if you need to, just like you would do on a regular Macintosh. I use a very tiny foldable bluetooth keyboard with my iPhone to take notes, and it works very, very well. I can use the thing to take notes in class, browse the internet wherever I am (and it's fast...), check my email, play games etc. I've use several blindness specific notetakers in the past and nothing is as good as this. Of course if I ever find something that I like better and I can afford to buy it, I will. But my iPhone and little keyboard for whenever I need to type for a long time are working very well right now. Ignasi On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > This solution will probably not feel natural to some listers, but I would take a serious look at the iPad from Apple. > > There will certainly be a learning curve for users new to apple products, but these things have the ability to run third party applications that are incredibly versatile, and they cost a fraction of the price of a $5000 note-taker. > > I use a braille sense, but am not sure how good the support will be with Hims taking over their own baby here in the united states, and GW Micro stepping out of the picture. > > My next note-taker if you really care will be from Apple. > > Antonio > > > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:36 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > >> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to assist me in this reguard? RJ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 04:53:05 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:53:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Linux Cost In-Reply-To: References: <4CC1C810.8010408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CD49227-B501-48B6-9405-EF068E0A8077@gmail.com> There are many PC's that you can buy with a Linux OS preinstalled, although if you want to use something like Vinux you will need to install it yourself. You can find linux netbooks for 2 or 300 dollars easily, maybe even cheaper. On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do you > truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer going > to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of > Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the > platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker > > Hi > > ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. > go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on > the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. > > Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 04:56:14 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids In-Reply-To: References: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's a standalone device, although you can connect it to a phone via bluetooth to use it to answer calls and talk through it. The Kapten comes with a pair of headphones and a microphone, so you can basically carry your phone in your bag or something and just use the Kapten to guide you and to make phone calls via bluetooth. Basically it's a nifty little thing, but the GPS receiver that's built into it is really not the best out there. I really think it's enough for a driver or sighted pedestrian though. It will basically take you to the right place, and it's really cheap. On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Does the Capten run with a phone or is it a stand alone device? Does it state the intersection type as well as the street names? > I heard its not too precise. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:43 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids > > >> Hi >> >> Has anyone used the kapten gps by independent living aids? >> >> Josh >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 05:03:27 2010 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:03:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Linux Cost In-Reply-To: <8CD49227-B501-48B6-9405-EF068E0A8077@gmail.com> References: <4CC1C810.8010408@gmail.com> <8CD49227-B501-48B6-9405-EF068E0A8077@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, If you find a Linux netbook with ubuntu, you can easly convert it to Vinux and it is accessible out of the box unless the manufacturer removed certain accessibility packages. Thanks Nimer J On 23/10/2010, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > There are many PC's that you can buy with a Linux OS preinstalled, although > if you want to use something like Vinux you will need to install it > yourself. You can find linux netbooks for 2 or 300 dollars easily, maybe > even cheaper. > On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do you >> truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer going >> to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of >> Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the >> platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy >> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker >> >> Hi >> >> ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. >> go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on >> the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. >> >> Josh >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From hypoplexer at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 06:24:28 2010 From: hypoplexer at gmail.com (Danielle Montour) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 02:24:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Note takers Message-ID: <4cc3d13a.a369e50a.5f80.ffffb6e0@mx.google.com> That is my one dream right now is to get either a macbook pro or IPhone. Thanks for letting me know of this fact about the iPhone. Danni ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra References: <4CC1C810.8010408@gmail.com><8CD49227-B501-48B6-9405-EF068E0A8077@gmail.com> Message-ID: <142494A2F7224D5EB25DBCE8BF59919D@SonyPC> With all this talk about vinux I decided to try it. I installed it on an old laptop I no longer used. Problem is, it talks when I turn it on, and when I shut it off, but, no speech while it is running. Orca lodes fine, but, will not talk. The laptop is a Pentium 3 mobile, with 512mb ram. It was originally win 98 but, just linix now. Thaughts, suggestions, Thanks Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nimer Jaber" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Linux Cost > Hello, > > If you find a Linux netbook with ubuntu, you can easly convert it to > Vinux and it is accessible out of the box unless the manufacturer > removed certain accessibility packages. > > Thanks > Nimer J > > On 23/10/2010, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> There are many PC's that you can buy with a Linux OS preinstalled, >> although >> if you want to use something like Vinux you will need to install it >> yourself. You can find linux netbooks for 2 or 300 dollars easily, maybe >> even cheaper. >> On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do >>> you >>> truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer >>> going >>> to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of >>> Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the >>> platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy >>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. >>> go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on >>> the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Oct 24 15:59:51 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:59:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Comprehensive text documentation for JAWS 12.0 Message-ID: > > From the archive >http://EmpowermentZone.com/jfw12doc.zip > >This is a comprehensive set of text documentation for the JAWS 12.0 >screen reader from >http://FreedomScientific.com > >Help files in .chm format were converted to structured text >format. This format has simple conventions that support additional >navigation options over plain text. For example, the EdSharp >editor, available at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/edsetup.exe > >includes hotkeys such as Control+PageDown or Control+PageUp to move >forward or backward among topical sections in such a >document. Pressing F6 on a topic name in the table of contents goes >to the corresponding section in the body. Shift+F6 returns to the >table of contents from the body. Control+F6 searches for a section >based on text in its topic name. Alt+F6 searches for the next match. > >The following 25 files are included in the archive: > >Basics_of_Scripting.txt >braille.txt >builtin.txt >default.txt >fsdn.txt >HJAdmin.txt >HJPad.txt >JAWS Quick Start Guide.txt >JAWS Tandem Quick Start Guide.txt >jconfig.txt >jdiction.txt >JFW.txt >jkey.txt >jscript.txt >JTandem.txt >Keystrokes.txt >OpenSSL.license.txt >popapps.txt >Remote.txt >ScriptingManual.txt >SettingsCenter.txt >SettingsPackager.txt >tutorial.txt >winvnc.license.txt >winvnc.readme.txt > > >At least two files are targeted toward beginning script >writers: the Basics of Scripting tutorial (Basics_of_Scripting.txt) >and the original scripting manual called "Everything You Always >Wanted to Know About Writing JAWS Scripts, But Didn't Know Whom to >Ask" (ScriptingManual.txt). Advanced scripters may appreciate the >reference manual for the Freedom Scientific Developer Network >(fsdn.txt). They may also value the analysis below of differences >between the scripting languages of JAWS 11 and 12. > >---------- > > >Based on a comparison of items available in the insert dialogs of >JAWS Script Manager, there are 60 new functions, and 12 new scripts, >in JAWS 12 over JAWS 11. This includes both builtin items and those >defined in default.jss. > > >---------- > > >60 New Functions in JAWS 12: > >AnalyzeTextLine >AppCommand >CaretMovedEvent >ChangeSystemVolume >CollectionItemExists >CollectionRemoveAll >CollectionRemoveItem >dlgListOfLinks >EscapeKey >GetCurrentKeyboardLayoutDisplayName >GetCurrentKeyboardLayoutText >GetCurrentSayAllScheme >GetDescribedByText >GetNearestLink >GetRangeInconsistencyByIndex >GetRangeInconsistencyCount >GetRibbonStatus >GetSettingsCenterControlDisabledReason >GetSettingsCenterControlHelp >GetWindowExStyleBits >IndicateInconsistenciesInRange >IndicateInconsistency >IsContractedBrailleInputSupported >IsMovingByCharacter >IsMovingByFirstOrLastLine >IsMovingByHomeOrEnd >IsMovingByLine >IsMovingByPage >IsMovingByParagraph >IsMovingBySentence >IsMovingByWord >IsOBUtil >IsTextAnalysisValid >LaunchShortcut >MonitorNewTextEventAlerts >MoveToControlledTarget >MoveToRangeInconsistency >PreProcessKeyPressedEvent >ProcessHJDialogKeyPressed >ProcessKeyPressed >ProcessSpeechOnNewTextEvent >SayCellFromCaretMovedEvent >SayCharacterFromCaretMovedEvent >SayFirstOrLastLineFromCaretMovedEvent >SayFormattedMessageWithvoice >SayHomeOrEndFromCaretMovedEvent >SayLineFromCaretMovedEvent >SayLineInsteadOfSayAll >SayPageFromCaretMovedEvent >SayParagraphFromCaretMovedEvent >SaySentenceFromCaretMovedEvent >SayWindowPromptAndTextPostProcess >SayWordFromCaretMovedEvent >SelectionChangedEvent >ShouldProcessSelectionChangedEvent >ShowScreenSensitiveHelpForVirtualRibbon >SupportsEditCallbacks >TextViewerPanLeft >TextViewerPanRight >WaitForFocusToMoveTo > > >---------- > > >12 New Scrips in JAWS 12: > >ChangeContractedBrailleSetting >LockKeyboard >MoveToFirstInconsistency >MoveToLastInconsistency >MoveToNextInconsistency >MoveToNextMailToLink >MoveToPriorInconsistency >MoveToPriorMailToLink >SendApplicationKey >SettingsCenter >ToggleCapsLock >ToggleTextAnalyzer > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Sun Oct 24 18:05:05 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 13:05:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids In-Reply-To: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> References: <4CC1B132.4060105@gmail.com> Message-ID: The reviews of it have not been very good. Dave At 10:43 AM 10/22/2010, you wrote: >Hi > >Has anyone used the kapten gps by independent living aids? > >Josh David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 18:36:03 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:36:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The First Djd Invasion To Officially Air Exclusively On AudioMirrorFM Airs Tonight Message-ID: <496B6EA76D7C414D850B57B6CAE47958@AudioShockWave> Hi All! Well, AudioMirrorFM has been around for just about a week in its new form, and so far, everyone seems to be enjoying what they've heard. But your week just wouldn't be a full week without The Djd Invasion taking center stage on its new home, the one and only place you can find it, AudioMirrorFM! It is with this in mind that we announce the first official Djd Invasion to air exclusively on AudioMirrorFM tonight! The fun begins tonight at 8 PM eastern time, and will feature..... Find out why the captcha system that is supposed to protect bloggers, web site developers, etc, are now being threatened, and why you should care After having been gone for awhile, we're bringing back this week the song track that should have never been released feature of the show, and trust me, this might just be the most painful two minutes you'll ever spend in front of your computer... A nice blend of songs, some of which have not been played on a Djd Invasion show in several years And of course, we'll take your requests. You can email them or aol instant message them to live at audiomirrorfm.com msn them to audiomirrorfm at live.co.uk or you can skype us at audiomirrorfm or call us up at 646-755-9715 You can also search my music library once we're live by going to http://djd.audiomirrorfm.com/request.php So if you want some tech news, some great and fun music, great interaction, and maybe a laugh or two, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern up through midnight, crank up your speakers and head on over to http://www.audiomirrorfm.com/listen.php to check it out! Hope to see you there! Best regards, Djd, host of The Djd Invasion on AudioMirrorFM http://www.audiomirrorfm.com From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 18:52:52 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 13:52:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pennies for Pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cb73ac$aa8f5380$ffadfa80$@com> Greetings to all members and friends of NABS, I am writing to announce and solicit your participation in an exciting fundraising effort that the National Association of Blind Students is currently undertaking. The fundraiser is our second annual Pennies for Pages, and is being run in conjunction with the NFB's Braille Readers are Leaders contest. We believe that this fundraiser has a lot of potential. However, in order to realize this potential, we need help from all of you! The idea is this. Students, or anybody else who is interested in helping to raise money for Braille literacy and our national and state student divisions, can sign up to participate in the Braille Readers are Leaders program and then solicit donations from friends, family, or anybody really, for Braille pages read throughout the duration of the contest. Of course, donations of fixed sums are also gratefully accepted. If you are already participating in either the K-12 or Adult Braille Readers are Leaders contests, you can simply register with NABS as a reader and find people to sponsor you for each page you read. To register as a reader with NABS, please fill the online form at: www.nabslink.org/pennies_for_pages/pennies_form.php Or contact Sean Whalen at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. If you are not yet signed up for the contest, no worries! The reading contest runs from November 1, 2010 through January 4, 2011, and registration for Braille Readers are Leaders is open now, and will remain open throughout the duration of the contest. To register for either the K-12 or Adult Braille Readers are Leaders Contests, please go to www.nfb.org/bral. And, remember, once you have registered for the contest, sign up with NABS to participate in our Pennies for Pages fundraising effort! If, rather than registering as a reader, you would like to support NABS' efforts by sponsoring a reader, or making a fixed donation, please either register as a sponsor at: www.nabslink.org/pennies_for_pages/pennies_form.php or contact Sean Whalen at smwhalenpsp at gmail.com or 608 332-4147. Donations can be accepted in cash or as checks made out to the National Association of Blind Students and can be given to our Treasurer, Nijat Worley, either in person at Washington Seminar or sent, via postal mail, to: Nijat Worley 2905 East College Ave, Unit 106 Boulder, CO 80303 If you wish to participate or have any questions at all about the plan, please contact Sean Whalen at either 608-332-4147 or smwhalenpsp at gmail.com. I will be compiling the list of participants and would be happy to answer any questions which anybody might have. Any money we raise through Pennies for Pages will be shared, in equal portions, between NABS, the National Association to Promote the Use of Braille, and the state student divisions (or affiliates) in which the readers reside. NABS looks forward to working together to raise money for, and promote awareness of, Braille literacy! Sincerely, Sean Whalen From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 18:54:57 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:54:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps Message-ID: <4CC48101.8030301@gmail.com> Hi I heard with voice commands you can ask it where you currently are at and it will tell you. My loadstone gps with bluetooth receiver is accurate to within 10 to 15 feet. would it be enough to get a blind pedestrian from point a to point b? How does it respond when you invoke the where am I command? Josh From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 23:38:41 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:38:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Notetaker Survey Message-ID: <4FD102266F234D878922EB413CBFA7B2@Rufus> Hello, Sorry if this has already made the rounds, but the National Braille Press, in partnership with Bentley University, is conducting a survey about user preferences for Braille notetakers. My sense is this research and development for the Android device they're putting together. Please fill it out. It only takes about 5 minutes and will provide feedback to people who are dedicated to changing the field in the expensive notetaker field. https://bentley.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_3fs0pdBxChLuMSg Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Oct 25 14:56:27 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:56:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my experience of laptops versus notetakers from a different perspective In-Reply-To: <00e101cb720a$2f4101e0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> References: <00e101cb720a$2f4101e0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: Gerardo, Thanks for your take on this issue. It's always interesting to me how other countries aside from the United States operate. You make some good points, too. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 15:22:52 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:22:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] old access project Message-ID: <4CC5A0CC.2090308@gmail.com> Hello I found a website which is dedicated to preserving old technology from the 1980s through late 1990s. http://allinaccess.com/happ/#intro From JChwalow at nfb.org Mon Oct 25 16:31:34 2010 From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:31:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind academics and Thomson Reuters Message-ID: From: William Page [mailto:page at scipol.co.uk] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 7:19 AM To: Maurer, Patricia Subject: Blind academics and Thomson Reuters As always, academics need to be published in academic journals. Increasingly, journals are insisting articles are submitted online. The market leader is ScholarOne Manuscript, a division of Thomson Reuters and based in the US. Its websites have many buttons which are graphics with no hidden text beneath them; I believe no screen reader can read them. This limits the ability of blind academics to submit articles to at least this major player. This is unhelpful to their career development! I know this because I am a blind publisher who signed up to use their service for our journals - and I cannot use it! Thomson Reuters agree they should be doing something about this, but cannot see it being done for some time. Is there an association of blind academics who might add pressure to get this changed sooner rather than later? Below are my emails to Thomson Reuters about this; they are clearly not trying to be difficult, but say this would be an immense job for technical reasons. You are welcome to forward this email to anyone you think appropriate. Thanks for any help you can give. Bill Page -------------------------------------------- William Page Beech Tree Publishing - Science and Public Policy - Research Evaluation - Impact Assessment and Project Appraisal 10 Watford Close, Guildford, Surrey GU1 2EP, UK Telephone +44 1483 824871 Fax +44 1483 567497 Email page at scipol.co.uk Website www.scipol.co.uk (including links to journal abstracts and full texts on the Ingenta Connect site) -----Original Message----- From: tiffany.coker at thomsonreuters.com [mailto:tiffany.coker at thomsonreuters.com] Sent: 18 June 2010 18:58 To: page at scipol.co.uk Cc: ryan.looney at thomsonreuters.com Subject: RE: MC and screen readers Dear Bill, Thank you for your note explaining the hardship you're experience using ScholarOne Manuscripts with Hal. While I have heard that certain users with screen readers had various minor troubles using the system, I haven't become aware that the system was impossible to use until you mentioned it below. From my understanding of screen readers, they rely heavily (if not solely) on "alt text" describing images and buttons to aid in navigation. I also appreciate your willingness to help prioritize changes in the sites you work with. However, in the case of ScholarOne Manuscripts, the system is built in such a way that all sites rely on the same code base to work; each site, rather than being a unique deployment of unique code, is simply a branch of the main code for all sites. Any changes we make to one site will and must affect all. Adding "alt text" to each image throughout the site is a large undertaking, and is further complicated by the fact that the sites can be customized to display different images depending on workflow, configuration, and language settings. While I don't believe that we can expect any improvement in 2010, as our resources are completely deployed on other projects, I will speak with my supervisors here and at Thomson Reuters to evaluate this for the future. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have further questions. Best wishes, Tiffany ................................................................. Tiffany Coker Director, Product Management ScholarOne Healthcare & Science Thomson Reuters Phone: 434.964.4027 Fax: 434.817.2039 tiffany.coker at thomsonreuters.com thomsonreuters.com -----Original Message----- From: William Page [mailto:page at scipol.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 8:26 AM To: Coker, Tiffany (Hlthcr&Science) Cc: Looney, Ryan (Hlthcr&Science) Subject: RE: MC and screen readers Hello Tiffany Around December, Ryan Looney kindly contacted you on my behalf. We had signed up for two of the journals I publish to be on Manuscript Central. It took me time to realize that I could not really use MC because I am blind and use a screen reader (called Hal). Although David Thomas knew I was blind when he did the demonstration, it did not become apparent until much later that this would be a problem. I appreciate your situation, of making all MC sites compliant will be an immense undertaking. However, I am currently signed up to a service which I cannot use! So I wonder if we can reach a compromise: might it be possible to make just our two sites compliant? By which I mean, that a competent screen reader can read? If it helps: I am actively involved as an editor as well as the publisher of one, Science and Public Policy, so this would be my priority. If the other, Impact Assessment and Project Appraisal, had to wait, I could survive because I am not actively involved in editing that one, only in publishing it. If there is anything I can do to help with this, please tell me. With thanks for any help you can give me, Best wishes Bill Page -------------------------------------------- William Page Beech Tree Publishing - Science and Public Policy - Impact Assessment and Project Appraisal 10 Watford Close, Guildford, Surrey GU1 2EP, UK Telephone +44 1483 824871 Fax +44 1483 567497 Email page at scipol.co.uk Website www.scipol.co.uk (including links to journal abstracts and full texts on the Ingenta Connect site) From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 17:25:12 2010 From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:25:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fwd: White Cane Safety Day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, Below is a transcript of President Obama's speech on White Cane Safety Day. I thought some might be interested in reading it. (This was forwarded from an email sent out by the Disabilities Network of NYC. Best, Kate ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:56 PM Subject: [Disabilities Network of NYC] Presidential Proclamation To: DNNYC at yahoogroups.com, 504dems at yahoogroups.com *From:* White House Disability Group [* mailto:disability at messages.whitehouse.gov* ] *Sent:* Monday, October 18, 2010 11:03 AM ***Subject:* Presidential Proclamation--White Cane Safety Day THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release October 15, 2010 White Cane Safety Day, 2010 - - - - - - - By the President of the United States of America A Proclamation The white cane, in addition to being a practical mobility tool, serves as a symbol of dignity, freedom, and independence for individuals who are blind or visually impaired. On White Cane Safety Day, our Nation celebrates the immeasurable contributions the Americans who use canes have made as valued members of our diverse country. We also examine our progress and recommit to full integration, equality, education, and opportunity for Americans with visual impairments. Today, students with disabilities are reaching achievements considered unattainable just a few decades ago. Many gains have been realized throughout our educational system, but we must accomplish more so that America's technological advances and assistive tools are available for the benefit of all students. My Administration is committed to ensuring that electronic readers and other electronic equipment used by schools, including postsecondary institutions, are accessible to individuals who are blind or visually impaired. We are also providing guidance and technical assistance to help colleges and universities fully comply with the legal requirements to use emerging technology that is accessible to all students in the classroom. Blindness and visual impairments are not impediments to obtaining knowledge, and we must highlight the availability of existing tools to facilitate communication and work to improve access to them. Additionally, the Braille code opens doors of literacy and learning to countless individuals with visual impairments across our country and around the world, and we must work with advocates and leaders throughout our society to promote and improve Braille literacy among our students. Americans with disabilities are Americans first and foremost, entitled to both full participation in our society and full opportunity in our economy. My Administration is working to increase information access so Americans who are blind or visually impaired can fully participate in our increasingly interconnected world. To expand career options for people with disabilities in the Federal Government, I signed an Executive Order directing executive departments and agencies to design strategies to increase recruitment and hiring of these valued public servants. I was also pleased to sign the Twenty­First Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act into law earlier this month to ensure that the jobs of the future are accessible to all. This legislation will make it easier for people who are deaf, blind, or live with a visual impairment to use the technology our 21st­century economy depends on, from navigating digital menus on a television to sending emails on a smart phone. As we observe the 20th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act this year, my Administration reaffirms our national commitment to creating access to employment, education, and social, political, and economic opportunities for Americans with disabilities. Together with individuals who are blind or visually impaired, service providers, educators, and employers, we will uphold our country as an inclusive, welcoming place for blind or visually impaired people to work, learn, play, and live. By joint resolution approved on October 6, 1964 (Public Law 88­628, as amended), the Congress designated October 15 of each year as White Cane Safety Day to recognize the contributions of Americans who are blind or have low vision. NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim October 15, 2010, as White Cane Safety Day. I call upon all public officials, business and community leaders, educators, librarians, and Americans to observe this day with appropriate ceremonies, activities, and programs. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fifteenth day of October, in the year of our Lord two thousand ten, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-fifth. BARACK OBAMA # # # The White House · 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111 __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post| Start a New Topic Messages in this topic( 1) Recent Activity: - New Members 4 Visit Your Group For up-to-the-minute updates, become a fan on Facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Disabilities-Network-of-NYC/261969564334 MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. ------------------------------ Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center. ------------------------------ Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests. [image: Yahoo! Groups] Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-3018 -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-3018 From agrima at nbp.org Mon Oct 25 17:51:32 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:51:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: National Braille Press and Bentley University need your help with an online survey Message-ID: National Braille Press and student teams at Bentley University are conducting research into the use of assistive technologies - specifically, notetaking devices - by visually impaired and blind individuals. The survey consists of thirteen questions and should take only a few minutes to complete. We'd like to invite you to participate in the survey. Thank you for your help with our research - your opinion matters! The survey can be found at the following URL: https://bentley.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_3fs0pdBxChLuMSg _______________________________________________ Nbp mailing list Nbp at nbp.org PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . Visit us at http://www.nbp.org From JFreeh at nfb.org Mon Oct 25 22:06:19 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:06:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] United Airlines Discriminates Against Blind Passengers Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Karla Gilbride Director of Public Relations Staff Attorney National Federation of the Blind Disability Rights Advocates (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (510) 665-8644 ext. 11 (Office) (410) 262-1281 (Cell) (202) 631-2426 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org kgilbride at dralegal.org United Airlines Discriminates Against Blind Passengers National Federation of the Blind Files Suit Over Inaccessible Kiosks San Francisco, California (October 25, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind, the nation’s oldest and largest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for accessible technology, and three blind individuals­Michael Hingson, Mike May, and Tina Thomas­who reside in California and frequently fly United, filed a class-action lawsuit today in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California against United Airlines. United uses airport kiosks that employ touchscreen technology in a manner such that they cannot be used by blind passengers. Passengers who are able to use the kiosks can access information about flights, check in for flights, print tickets and boarding passes, select seats, upgrade to United’s business or first class cabins, check baggage, and perform other transactions relevant to their air travel plans. The suit alleges that United is violating the California Disabled Persons Act and the Unruh Civil Rights Act because the services it provides through these kiosks are not available to blind passengers. United could easily add an audio interface, a tactile keyboard, or interactive screen reader technology that works with touchscreens to its kiosks, as other companies have done. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The airline industry has an unfortunate history of discriminating against blind passengers, and now United Airlines is repeating that history by deploying inaccessible technology that we cannot use. United is engaging in this blatant discrimination even though the technology to make its kiosks accessible is readily available, has been deployed by others, and will involve little cost to the company. Instead of enjoying the features and convenience of these kiosks, including a quicker and more convenient check-in process, blind passengers must wait in long lines at the ticket counter, even when they have already purchased their tickets and checked in online. We will not tolerate a separate and unequal experience for blind passengers and demand that United cease its discrimination against us as soon as practicable." Michael Hingson, a blind motivational speaker and president and owner of a technology sales company, said: "I have traveled throughout the United States and the world for my public speaking engagements and as a technology sales representative, yet I cannot independently check in at the airport. It frustrates me, as a frequent traveler and United passenger, that I must wait for a United employee to assist me with the kiosk, seek help from a sighted passenger (in which case I must share sensitive private information with a total stranger), or else stand in a long line in order to complete the airport check-in process. I hope that this lawsuit will serve as a wake-up call to United and that the airline will swiftly make its kiosks accessible." Mike May, CEO of the Sendero Group, a leading manufacturer of technology for the blind, said: "I have been working in the adaptive technology field for twenty years, and I know well that it is easy and practical for United to make its kiosks accessible. There is simply no excuse for the long wait and inconvenience that other blind United passengers and I continue to experience at airports." Tina Thomas, a member of the United States Paralympic Judo Team, said: "I find it extremely ironic that United, which touts itself as the official airline of the U.S. Paralympic Team, discriminates against me as a member of that team and as a blind person. I sincerely hope that United will make a more serious and tangible commitment to treating passengers with disabilities equally." Plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Daniel F. Goldstein and Gregory P. Care of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy; and Laurence W. Paradis, Karla Gilbride, and Kevin Knestrick of the Berkeley firm Disability Rights Advocates. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From haltaf at carrollu.edu Mon Oct 25 22:11:34 2010 From: haltaf at carrollu.edu (Hina) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:11:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions Message-ID: <0DC1F52229F44A299DF1BA0983AFE2D2@DB8D43F1> hi, i have two issues i need help with. please let me know if anyone is familiar of how to do these: in microsoft outlook calendar, how to set an appointment to reoccur and if an appointment is canceled, how to cancel that? also secondly, when i am trying to open a link i am getting this message: "open parent document button" and then nothing happens. when a sighted person try to open a link it opens fine. any thoughts of why this could be happening? would appreciate your help. hina. From Allen.Hoffman at dhs.gov Mon Oct 25 22:29:14 2010 From: Allen.Hoffman at dhs.gov (Hoffman, Allen) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:29:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] [Promotion-technology] accessible flash player installer Message-ID: FYI As some of you may have noticed, the recent flash player update for Windows machines does not label the buttons well. You can get an accessible installer at http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/fp_distribution3.html This should help you get your flash player kept up to date and secure. _______________________________________________ Promotion-technology mailing list Promotion-technology at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/promotion-technology_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Promotion-technology: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/promotion-technology_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 23:39:43 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach Dreicer Griego) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:39:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Notetaker Survey Message-ID: <4cc61542.4a35ec0a.5c63.29b4@mx.google.com> thanks, and I'll pass it along as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" , "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'", "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" ,"'NFB Webmaster's List'" , ,, Hello, Sorry if this has already made the rounds, but the National Braille Press, in partnership with Bentley University, is conducting a survey about user preferences for Braille notetakers. My sense is this research and development for the Android device they're putting together. Please fill it out. It only takes about 5 minutes and will provide feedback to people who are dedicated to changing the field in the expensive notetaker field. https://bentley.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_3fs0pdBxChLuMSg From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 01:43:03 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:43:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions In-Reply-To: <0DC1F52229F44A299DF1BA0983AFE2D2@DB8D43F1> References: <0DC1F52229F44A299DF1BA0983AFE2D2@DB8D43F1> Message-ID: In regard to the second question, are you referring to opening things on blackboard? When i get that i tab until i hear a message along the lines of "for your security, window's has blocked this," you right click, shift f10 on it and click download file. If you're getting it on a different site, i can't garantee that that will work. Cindy On 10/25/10, Hina wrote: > hi, > i have two issues i need help with. please let me know if anyone is > familiar of how to do these: > in microsoft outlook calendar, how to set an appointment to reoccur and if > an appointment is canceled, how to cancel that? > also secondly, when i am trying to open a link i am getting this message: > "open parent document button" and then nothing happens. when a sighted > person try to open a link it opens fine. any thoughts of why this could be > happening? would appreciate your help. > hina. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From agrima at nbp.org Tue Oct 26 13:55:12 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:55:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Teachers - do you have the right tools for your job? Message-ID: <56A66EA6B0084F52AF77B4E630022F87@nbp2.local> Take a look at the 2010 Teacher's Toolkit from National Braille Press - a list of books, charts and other helpful products for you and your students! We also have a special offer, good until December 31st: Order $25 worth of books and deduct $5 from your order - as many times as you like! (Note that this discount is not available online - see the ordering information on page 7 of the PDF.) Download the accessible PDF of this flyer at: http://www.nbp.org/downloads/teachers_toolkit_2010.pdf If you have any trouble accessing the flyer, email orders at nbp.org. Best, Tony Grima National Braille Press -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: toolkit_image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 151627 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iperrault at hotmail.com Tue Oct 26 18:03:15 2010 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:03:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 Message-ID: Hi I'm a totally blind student in graduate school, enrolled in a Statistics course, and am required to use SPSS. I have JAWS 11, with SPSS version 18. The trouble is that SPSS sometimes reads with JAWS, and it sometimes doesn't read with JAWS and just freezes. Additionally, to click on the different functions it is inaccessible. I can navigate the menus, when it decides to read, but it is not that dependable. Any suggestions? Thanks Ian From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 20:24:27 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:24:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I definitely know how frustrating this is. I have heard through the grape vine that NVDA works with SPSS although i do not know any details. I hope someone replies with them. I used a reader for my undergrad stats course. A reader might be helpful even if you do find a way to access SPSS so you can read and navigate tables faster. I know SPSS is much more efficient, but if you are initially using excel to enter and organize your data, i know you can do T tests and correlations that way, but you can't do anovas and other more complex tests, and pivot tables in excel to my knowledge are not accessible with jaws. Best of luck, and definitely let us know if you find something that works. Cindy On 10/26/10, Ian Perrault wrote: > Hi > I'm a totally blind student in graduate school, enrolled in a Statistics > course, and am required to use SPSS. I have JAWS 11, with SPSS version 18. > The trouble is that SPSS sometimes reads with JAWS, and it sometimes doesn't > read with JAWS and just freezes. Additionally, to click on the different > functions it is inaccessible. I can navigate the menus, when it decides to > read, but it is not that dependable. Any suggestions? > Thanks > Ian > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From iperrault at hotmail.com Tue Oct 26 20:48:09 2010 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:48:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What is NVDA? From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 21:03:05 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:03:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question Message-ID: Hi All! Hope alls going great! I had a question about Excel 2007. I'm not really familiar with how to properly use it so I've been sort of winging it thus far, haha. My question is do any of you know how to select an entire row? Everytime I try to do the way by using the keyboard it only does the cell I am in. Thanks so much, Justin From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 21:09:38 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:09:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 References: Message-ID: NVDA (nonvisual desktop access) is an open-source screen reader. http://www.nvda-project.org/ Anjelina Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. Albert Einstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 > > What is NVDA? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 21:35:58 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:35:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It stands for nonvisual desktop access. Find out more here, www.nvda-project.org. It is open source, and i really don't know what it does better and worse than JAWS, i just heard that it is promising with SPSS. Cindy On 10/26/10, Anjelina wrote: > NVDA (nonvisual desktop access) is an open-source screen reader. > http://www.nvda-project.org/ > > Anjelina > Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. > Albert Einstein > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Perrault" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 > > >> >> What is NVDA? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Tue Oct 26 22:25:55 2010 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:25:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, One way to do this is, if you know the range of your row: 1. Press control plus g 2. Type in, for example, a1:d1. (this will select the range- a1, b1, c1, and d1) 3. Press control plus c to copy the highlighted range. 4. Move to the sell where you want to paste the copied data and press control plus v to paste. This will work for selecting a row or colum if you know the start and end cell. Hope this helps, Greg W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question > Hi All! > Hope alls going great! I had a question about Excel 2007. I'm not > really familiar with how to properly use it so I've been sort of > winging it thus far, haha. My question is do any of you know how to > select an entire row? Everytime I try to do the way by using the > keyboard it only does the cell I am in. > Thanks so much, > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 00:20:09 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:20:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Justin and all, I think if you start in the first cell of the row, then use shift-right arrow to select each cell to the right until the whole row is selected, this should work. Arielle On 10/26/10, Greg wrote: > Hello, > One way to do this is, if you know the range of your row: > 1. Press control plus g > 2. Type in, for example, a1:d1. (this will select the range- a1, b1, c1, > and d1) > 3. Press control plus c to copy the highlighted range. > 4. Move to the sell where you want to paste the copied data and press > control plus v to paste. > This will work for selecting a row or colum if you know the start and end > cell. > Hope this helps, > Greg W. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin Young" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:03 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question > > >> Hi All! >> Hope alls going great! I had a question about Excel 2007. I'm not >> really familiar with how to properly use it so I've been sort of >> winging it thus far, haha. My question is do any of you know how to >> select an entire row? Everytime I try to do the way by using the >> keyboard it only does the cell I am in. >> Thanks so much, >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 01:05:15 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:05:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 Message-ID: Hi guys, The question about Excel 2007 reminded me that I need to get with the program in learning Microsoft Office 2010. The interface is different, the format seems odd, and I'm not sure where to get started. Does anyone have suggestions for accessible books or websites to read on using Office 2010 with JAWS (Word and Excel primarily)? Does anyone have any suggestions of their own on how to learn Office 2010? I seem to be at a loss as to the interface of the latest Microsoft Office. Thanks for any help, and thanks for the interesting conversations on the list! -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Oct 27 01:33:17 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:33:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74299745-E628-403D-87C5-DA3FF5A84299@mac.com> > Jewel: There's a book on NBP. Just search Microsoft Office. You should find it that way. Jorge On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > Hi guys, > The question about Excel 2007 reminded me that I need to get with the > program in learning Microsoft Office 2010. The interface is different, > the format seems odd, and I'm not sure where to get started. > > Does anyone have suggestions for accessible books or websites to read > on using Office 2010 with JAWS (Word and Excel primarily)? Does anyone > have any suggestions of their own on how to learn Office 2010? I seem > to be at a loss as to the interface of the latest Microsoft Office. > > Thanks for any help, and thanks for the interesting conversations on the list! > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From philso1003 at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 02:04:13 2010 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:04:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi guys, To select an entire row, hit Shift Spacebar. To select an entire column, hit Ctrl Spacebar. Hope this helps. Philip On 10/26/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Justin and all, > > I think if you start in the first cell of the row, then use > shift-right arrow to select each cell to the right until the whole row > is selected, this should work. > > Arielle > > On 10/26/10, Greg wrote: >> Hello, >> One way to do this is, if you know the range of your row: >> 1. Press control plus g >> 2. Type in, for example, a1:d1. (this will select the range- a1, b1, c1, >> and d1) >> 3. Press control plus c to copy the highlighted range. >> 4. Move to the sell where you want to paste the copied data and press >> control plus v to paste. >> This will work for selecting a row or colum if you know the start and end >> cell. >> Hope this helps, >> Greg W. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Justin Young" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:03 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question >> >> >>> Hi All! >>> Hope alls going great! I had a question about Excel 2007. I'm not >>> really familiar with how to properly use it so I've been sort of >>> winging it thus far, haha. My question is do any of you know how to >>> select an entire row? Everytime I try to do the way by using the >>> keyboard it only does the cell I am in. >>> Thanks so much, >>> Justin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com > From jty727 at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 02:32:36 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:32:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you very much all! I know have a better understanding of how to do this. I appreciate all of your help in this matter On 10/26/10, Philip S wrote: > Hi guys, > To select an entire row, hit Shift Spacebar. > To select an entire column, hit Ctrl Spacebar. > Hope this helps. > Philip > > > On 10/26/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Justin and all, >> >> I think if you start in the first cell of the row, then use >> shift-right arrow to select each cell to the right until the whole row >> is selected, this should work. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 10/26/10, Greg wrote: >>> Hello, >>> One way to do this is, if you know the range of your row: >>> 1. Press control plus g >>> 2. Type in, for example, a1:d1. (this will select the range- a1, b1, >>> c1, >>> and d1) >>> 3. Press control plus c to copy the highlighted range. >>> 4. Move to the sell where you want to paste the copied data and press >>> control plus v to paste. >>> This will work for selecting a row or colum if you know the start and end >>> cell. >>> Hope this helps, >>> Greg W. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Justin Young" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:03 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question >>> >>> >>>> Hi All! >>>> Hope alls going great! I had a question about Excel 2007. I'm not >>>> really familiar with how to properly use it so I've been sort of >>>> winging it thus far, haha. My question is do any of you know how to >>>> select an entire row? Everytime I try to do the way by using the >>>> keyboard it only does the cell I am in. >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> Justin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From philso1003 at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 03:16:37 2010 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:16:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sure, Justin. 3 other useful quick keystrokes are: Ctrl Up Arrow: move to the first cell of a column Ctrl Right Arrow: move to the first cell of a row Ctrl Home: move to cell A1 Philip On 10/26/10, Justin Young wrote: > Thank you very much all! I know have a better understanding of how to > do this. I appreciate all of your help in this matter > > On 10/26/10, Philip S wrote: >> Hi guys, >> To select an entire row, hit Shift Spacebar. >> To select an entire column, hit Ctrl Spacebar. >> Hope this helps. >> Philip >> >> >> On 10/26/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Justin and all, >>> >>> I think if you start in the first cell of the row, then use >>> shift-right arrow to select each cell to the right until the whole row >>> is selected, this should work. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 10/26/10, Greg wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> One way to do this is, if you know the range of your row: >>>> 1. Press control plus g >>>> 2. Type in, for example, a1:d1. (this will select the range- a1, b1, >>>> c1, >>>> and d1) >>>> 3. Press control plus c to copy the highlighted range. >>>> 4. Move to the sell where you want to paste the copied data and press >>>> control plus v to paste. >>>> This will work for selecting a row or colum if you know the start and >>>> end >>>> cell. >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Greg W. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:03 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi All! >>>>> Hope alls going great! I had a question about Excel 2007. I'm not >>>>> really familiar with how to properly use it so I've been sort of >>>>> winging it thus far, haha. My question is do any of you know how to >>>>> select an entire row? Everytime I try to do the way by using the >>>>> keyboard it only does the cell I am in. >>>>> Thanks so much, >>>>> Justin >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com > From iperrault at hotmail.com Wed Oct 27 13:07:20 2010 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:07:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In my course, I am absolutely required to use SPSS though, no flexibility. Pretty stupid. From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Wed Oct 27 14:31:25 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 07:31:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 References: Message-ID: Have you talked to the DRC about it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Perrault" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:07 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 > > In my course, I am absolutely required to use SPSS though, no > flexibility. Pretty stupid. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Wed Oct 27 15:21:49 2010 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:21:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From iperrault at hotmail.com Wed Oct 27 15:32:34 2010 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:32:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, didn't send the last time. What's the DRC? From clb5590 at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 16:24:44 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:24:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Most schools have an office, named differently at each school, that deals with making sure students with disabilities get the necessary accommidations. That is frustrating that you must use SPSS. Do you have to print and turn in the output tables? Because if you don't, then you could do the tests you can in excel and have areader help wwith the more complicated ones. It might be best to start by talking to your professor before going to the disabilities office. I always find it easier to try to solve things without a third party first. Explain your situation. The disabilities office might be a good place to find a reader though, or you could consult with some professors in your department who might be able to point you toward a good student familiar with SPSS. Cindy On 10/27/10, Ian Perrault wrote: > > Sorry, didn't send the last time. What's the DRC? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 16:29:32 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:29:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 References: Message-ID: <0EC40DB198364385BB72FA5F30ED53BC@Dezman> I here that a program called SAS is quite keyboard friendly and can be used to accomplish the same tasks. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 > Most schools have an office, named differently at each school, that > deals with making sure students with disabilities get the necessary > accommidations. > > That is frustrating that you must use SPSS. Do you have to print and > turn in the output tables? Because if you don't, then you could do the > tests you can in excel and have areader help wwith the more > complicated ones. It might be best to start by talking to your > professor before going to the disabilities office. I always find it > easier to try to solve things without a third party first. Explain > your situation. The disabilities office might be a good place to find > a reader though, or you could consult with some professors in your > department who might be able to point you toward a good student > familiar with SPSS. > > Cindy > > On 10/27/10, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >> Sorry, didn't send the last time. What's the DRC? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Wed Oct 27 16:52:04 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:52:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 References: Message-ID: <6E36B579C0A84437B86F6A826B2961F9@stanford.edu> And the acronym stands for Disability Resource Center, which is the name that is used to refer to the office, regardless of what it is called locally. For example, the DRC at Stanford is the Office of Accessible Education (OAE). Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 11 with SPSS 18 > Most schools have an office, named differently at each school, that > deals with making sure students with disabilities get the necessary > accommidations. > > That is frustrating that you must use SPSS. Do you have to print and > turn in the output tables? Because if you don't, then you could do the > tests you can in excel and have areader help wwith the more > complicated ones. It might be best to start by talking to your > professor before going to the disabilities office. I always find it > easier to try to solve things without a third party first. Explain > your situation. The disabilities office might be a good place to find > a reader though, or you could consult with some professors in your > department who might be able to point you toward a good student > familiar with SPSS. > > Cindy > > On 10/27/10, Ian Perrault wrote: >> >> Sorry, didn't send the last time. What's the DRC? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 18:32:55 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:32:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006501cb7605$6054df00$20fe9d00$@com> Control plus up, down, left, or right arrow will move you to the edge of a region, but not necessarily the beginning or end of a row or column. For example, if you have data in column A from A1 down to A100, but no data in cell A50, pressing control plus down arrow while you are in cell A1 will take you down to A49, and not A100. Pressing control up arrow while in cell A100 will take you to cell A51. Similarly, if you have column B empty except for cells B25 and B50, which have data in them, pressing control down arrow while in cell B1 will take you to the first cell containing data, B25. Another press of control down arrow will take you to B50. This is a great way to scan for records that are missing data in a particular column. One other note: pressing "home" will always take you to the first cell in a row, regardless of whether or not it is filled. Hope it's useful, Sean From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Oct 27 20:24:39 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:24:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 References: <74299745-E628-403D-87C5-DA3FF5A84299@mac.com> Message-ID: <2F51413859104DF1A0D44127DCDE8241@Ashley> George I thought the NBP book was 2007. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 >> Jewel: > There's a book on NBP. > Just search Microsoft Office. > You should find it that way. > > Jorge > > > > > On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> The question about Excel 2007 reminded me that I need to get with the >> program in learning Microsoft Office 2010. The interface is different, >> the format seems odd, and I'm not sure where to get started. >> >> Does anyone have suggestions for accessible books or websites to read >> on using Office 2010 with JAWS (Word and Excel primarily)? Does anyone >> have any suggestions of their own on how to learn Office 2010? I seem >> to be at a loss as to the interface of the latest Microsoft Office. >> >> Thanks for any help, and thanks for the interesting conversations on the >> list! >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Oct 27 20:45:30 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:45:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 In-Reply-To: <2F51413859104DF1A0D44127DCDE8241@Ashley> References: <74299745-E628-403D-87C5-DA3FF5A84299@mac.com> <2F51413859104DF1A0D44127DCDE8241@Ashley> Message-ID: <00E94C91-942F-4D67-9B12-821F316FED20@mac.com> I don't think so--the book I'm talking about came out a few weeks to a few months ago, so it should be 2010. I may be wrong though. Jorge On Oct 27, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > George I thought the NBP book was 2007. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 > > >>> Jewel: >> There's a book on NBP. >> Just search Microsoft Office. >> You should find it that way. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Jewel S. wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> The question about Excel 2007 reminded me that I need to get with the >>> program in learning Microsoft Office 2010. The interface is different, >>> the format seems odd, and I'm not sure where to get started. >>> >>> Does anyone have suggestions for accessible books or websites to read >>> on using Office 2010 with JAWS (Word and Excel primarily)? Does anyone >>> have any suggestions of their own on how to learn Office 2010? I seem >>> to be at a loss as to the interface of the latest Microsoft Office. >>> >>> Thanks for any help, and thanks for the interesting conversations on the list! >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From philso1003 at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 22:47:44 2010 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:47:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: <006501cb7605$6054df00$20fe9d00$@com> References: <006501cb7605$6054df00$20fe9d00$@com> Message-ID: Hi Sean, Thanks for the clarification. Yeah the Ctrl arrows to move to beginning work only if the whole row or column is empty. Do you know how to move to the top of a column then when there's data? Let's say to move from B80 to B1, with data in all the cells except say for B40. Thanks. philip On 10/27/10, Sean Whalen wrote: > Control plus up, down, left, or right arrow will move you to the edge of a > region, but not necessarily the beginning or end of a row or column. For > example, if you have data in column A from A1 down to A100, but no data in > cell A50, pressing control plus down arrow while you are in cell A1 will > take you down to A49, and not A100. Pressing control up arrow while in cell > A100 will take you to cell A51. Similarly, if you have column B empty except > for cells B25 and B50, which have data in them, pressing control down arrow > while in cell B1 will take you to the first cell containing data, B25. > Another press of control down arrow will take you to B50. This is a great > way to scan for records that are missing data in a particular column. > > One other note: pressing "home" will always take you to the first cell in a > row, regardless of whether or not it is filled. > > Hope it's useful, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 23:37:51 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:37:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] justification for purchosing a braille Note BT Message-ID: <80377F56E0AF44218F16F8674E50BF17@hometwxakonvzn> I am looking into purchosing a Braille note BT, and I'd like some Ideas on how I can best justify why I need this product? Here's a draft I've written. I'm looking to purchose a BrailleNote Apex BT 32 which is $6,379 (32 cell braille display with braille keyboard) I am a licensed southern Baptist minister, and I'm studying with a seminary through distance learning in order to obtain a doctorate in theology. This device, would assist me in sermon preparation, as I will be able to wirelessly connect to the internet if I'm on the go, and am not able to get to my desktop computer. The Braille display, will assist me in that when I'm delivering my sermon my notes, will be in front of me, and the braille note will eliminate the need for me to have to carry a braille volume up to the pulpit with me. I don't wish to be self relaient, and I feel that the braille note will give me even greater indendance than ever before. Another reason I why I feel I need this product, is it has a voice recorder, for me to record lectures from my fello ministers. If I am chosen to recieve this money, it will be used for the purpose it was intended, and nothing else. Sincerely, RJ Sandefur Any thoughts? RJ From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Oct 27 23:39:57 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:39:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cellphones on the Sprint network Message-ID: Hi listers: Just wondering if anyone knew of an accessible cellphone on Sprint. My parents are considering switching from AT&T, so I want to see if there are any accessible sprint phones (smart phones if possible) Thanks, Jorge From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 00:42:56 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:42:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 In-Reply-To: <00E94C91-942F-4D67-9B12-821F316FED20@mac.com> References: <74299745-E628-403D-87C5-DA3FF5A84299@mac.com> <2F51413859104DF1A0D44127DCDE8241@Ashley> <00E94C91-942F-4D67-9B12-821F316FED20@mac.com> Message-ID: All I found that was similar to what I was looking for was 'Explorint Microsoft Word 2007.' I did not see anything for Office 2010. On 10/27/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > I don't think so--the book I'm talking about came out a few weeks to a few > months ago, so it should be 2010. > I may be wrong though. > > Jorge > > > On Oct 27, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >> George I thought the NBP book was 2007. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 >> >> >>>> Jewel: >>> There's a book on NBP. >>> Just search Microsoft Office. >>> You should find it that way. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Jewel S. wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> The question about Excel 2007 reminded me that I need to get with the >>>> program in learning Microsoft Office 2010. The interface is different, >>>> the format seems odd, and I'm not sure where to get started. >>>> >>>> Does anyone have suggestions for accessible books or websites to read >>>> on using Office 2010 with JAWS (Word and Excel primarily)? Does anyone >>>> have any suggestions of their own on how to learn Office 2010? I seem >>>> to be at a loss as to the interface of the latest Microsoft Office. >>>> >>>> Thanks for any help, and thanks for the interesting conversations on the >>>> list! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 01:06:33 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:06:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 References: <74299745-E628-403D-87C5-DA3FF5A84299@mac.com><2F51413859104DF1A0D44127DCDE8241@Ashley><00E94C91-942F-4D67-9B12-821F316FED20@mac.com> Message-ID: <4AF1A33E8018424B8BEEC17C173FE95E@hometwxakonvzn> I've not sceen any thing about a new version of office. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 > All I found that was similar to what I was looking for was 'Explorint > Microsoft Word 2007.' I did not see anything for Office 2010. > > On 10/27/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> I don't think so--the book I'm talking about came out a few weeks to a >> few >> months ago, so it should be 2010. >> I may be wrong though. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Oct 27, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> >>> George I thought the NBP book was 2007. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:33 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 >>> >>> >>>>> Jewel: >>>> There's a book on NBP. >>>> Just search Microsoft Office. >>>> You should find it that way. >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Jewel S. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> The question about Excel 2007 reminded me that I need to get with the >>>>> program in learning Microsoft Office 2010. The interface is different, >>>>> the format seems odd, and I'm not sure where to get started. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone have suggestions for accessible books or websites to read >>>>> on using Office 2010 with JAWS (Word and Excel primarily)? Does anyone >>>>> have any suggestions of their own on how to learn Office 2010? I seem >>>>> to be at a loss as to the interface of the latest Microsoft Office. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any help, and thanks for the interesting conversations on >>>>> the >>>>> list! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From LRovig at nfb.org Thu Oct 28 01:35:46 2010 From: LRovig at nfb.org (Rovig, Lorraine) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:35:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend Message-ID: NFB member, Jessica Bachicha, to sing lead in Mozart’s opera, “The Magic Flute” WHAT: Opera: CUA to Stage The Magic Flute Blind Doctoral Student to Play Queen of the Night President John Garvey Appears in Walk-on Role Oct. 29 WHEN: Thursday, Oct. 28, 7:30 p.m., preview performance Friday, Oct. 29, and Saturday, Oct. 30, 7:30 p.m. Sunday, Oct. 31, 2 p.m. WHERE: The Catholic University of America Hartke Theatre 620 Michigan Ave., N.E. Washington, D.C. DETAILS: Blind doctoral candidate Jessica Bachicha will perform the role of the Queen of the Night in the Oct. 29 and 31 performances. To read a story about Bachicha, click here. On Oct. 29, Catholic University President John Garvey will appear in a walk-on role in CUA’s production of The Magic Flute, an opera in two acts by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Sung in German with English dialogue, the production is directed by Jay D. Brock, lecturer in the drama department and artistic director of Opera Alterna based in Washington, D.C. David Searle, assistant professor and director of orchestral activities and conducting studies, will lead the CUA Orchestra. The opera, with libretto by Emanuel Shikaneder, chronicles the rescue of Pamina ­ daughter of the Queen of the Night ­ from Sarastro by the hero Tamino, who is armed with a magic flute. Mozart’s final masterpiece is filled with enigmatic references to the Freemasons. The composer and librettist were friends and members of the fraternal organization. Rife with ritual and symbolism, the fairy-tale opera is a playful but profound look at man’s search for love and his struggle to attain wisdom and virtue. The opera features the virtuosic arias of the Queen of the Night and the folksong-like melodies of the bird catcher Papageno. Tickets for the Oct. 28 performance are $10 for general admission and $5 for students, seniors and CUA alumni, faculty and staff. Tickets for the other performances are $15 for general admission and $10 for students, seniors and CUA alumni, faculty and staff. For more information, contact the Benjamin T. Rome School of Music at 202-319-5414. SPONSOR: Benjamin T. Rome School of Music ­30­ #053 Oct. 20, 2010 Blind Doctoral Candidate Blossoms at CUA’s Music School Jessica Bachicha to Play Queen of the Night in The Magic Flute [] Singer Jessica Bachicha with her voice coach Sharon Christman, associate professor and chair of the voice program. Catholic University doctoral candidate Jessica Bachicha stands next to a grand piano in Ward Hall, rehearsing the Queen of the Night’s difficult vengeance aria for the upcoming production of The Magic Flute at Hartke Theatre. As her voice rises, so do her hands. A beaming Sharon Christman, associate professor and chair of the voice program, says “That was beautiful.” But Christman notices that her student’s hand movements do not reflect the drama in her voice. She takes Bachicha’s hands in her own as she demonstrates more expressive gestures. Bachicha focuses on memorizing the movement of her teacher’s hands. As the practice session ends, Bachicha turns and reaches for a water bottle. Her hands rest for a second on a bottle of hand sanitizer, and then she finds the water bottle. The winner of a concerto competition at CUA earlier this year, Bachicha happens to be blind. (To watch a video of Bachicha rehearsing, click here.) Eroica, which recorded Bachicha’s “Illuminations” CD, notes that Bachicha “sings with the freshness of Charlotte Church, the vigor of Maria Callas, and the resonance of Kiri Te Kanawa.” A resident of Baltimore, Bachicha expects to graduate in 2011 with a Doctor of Musical Arts degree. She was accepted at CUA’s Benjamin T. Rome in 2008 following an audition that amazed Christman and other music faculty. At the time, Christman knew that she wanted to work with Bachicha, but she realized she would need the support of other professors. “When I heard Jessica, there wasn’t a doubt in my mind,” says Christman, herself a renowned soprano who sang the Queen of the Night role at the Metropolitan Opera in New York City. “Jessica has a potential performance career. Her voice is lovely; she is beautiful and personable ­ the total package ­ but her stage experience had been somewhat limited.” Bachicha says, “At Catholic University, it’s been so refreshing to work with musicians who recognize me as a peer and realize that’s it not that different from working with a sighted singer. The thing that matters most is musicianship and the faculty here judge me on that alone.” [] Jessica Bachicha At the conservatory where Bachicha earned a master’s degree in vocal performance before coming to CUA, she notes that she learned a lot from the faculty. She performed as a soloist in recitals and in concerts with orchestra and chamber groups. But she did not have the chance to perform a major opera role. With a voice like Bachicha’s, Christman notes, there’s a responsibility to provide the opportunities she needs to realize her full potential. “We have no right to set limits on Jessica when she doesn't set any on herself,” Christman notes. And what better place to grow as an artist than at Catholic University, where faculty members routinely go the extra mile for their students, says Christman. David Searle, assistant professor, director of orchestral activities and conductor of the CUA Orchestra, says that when working with Bachicha, he sometimes gives her an audible cue ­ a loud breath ­ “when there’s no audible pulse in the music.” Bachicha’s academic resume is impressive. In addition to earning her master’s in vocal performance at the New England Conservatory, Bachicha spent a year as a graduate research student at the University of Leeds in England, and earned bachelor’s degrees in music and foreign languages from the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque. As part of her doctoral work at CUA, she is designing interdisciplinary courses that explore the ways in which music reflects philosophical and theological truths. As she explains, “music is a door between the worlds of intellect and affectivity. Beautiful music infused with meaning can bridge the gap that often exists between the two and, more importantly, the longing for realization which moves the will to moral action.” Bachicha notes that her role in The Magic Flute and the opportunity to work with the music faculty has enabled her to grow significantly as a musician. “I have a lot more confidence in myself and in what God wants to do through me,” she says. “It’s so important to be an instrument of the music and to ask ‘how can I do that better?’ The more confidence you have to have in yourself, the more you have to let yourself go and just think about how can I serve better as a musician.” More news from CUA ­30­ #058 Last reviewed: October 20, 2010 Reason. Faith. Service. Contact Us/Directory | Copyright Information | Speech Enabled The Catholic University of America * 620 Michigan Ave., N.E. * Washington, DC 20064 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 19b27d.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30790 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 19b28d.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 55197 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 19b29d.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1119 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dandrews at visi.com Thu Oct 28 02:19:54 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:19:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft Office 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <74299745-E628-403D-87C5-DA3FF5A84299@mac.com> <2F51413859104DF1A0D44127DCDE8241@Ashley> <00E94C91-942F-4D67-9B12-821F316FED20@mac.com> Message-ID: George is wrong -- the book that came out a couple weeks ago was Office 2007. Dave At 07:42 PM 10/27/2010, you wrote: >All I found that was similar to what I was looking for was 'Explorint >Microsoft Word 2007.' I did not see anything for Office 2010. > >On 10/27/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > > I don't think so--the book I'm talking about came out a few weeks to a few > > months ago, so it should be 2010. > > I may be wrong though. > > > > Jorge > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Thu Oct 28 02:23:52 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:23:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] justification for purchasing a braille Note BT In-Reply-To: <80377F56E0AF44218F16F8674E50BF17@hometwxakonvzn> References: <80377F56E0AF44218F16F8674E50BF17@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: You can also add that it will allow you to take notes in meetings etc., as well as quietly c0onsult those notes, and other documents because of the Braille display. You can also keep your calendar on the device so you don't miss those important appointments with your church-goers. Dave At 06:37 PM 10/27/2010, you wrote: >I am looking into purchosing a Braille note BT, and I'd like some >Ideas on how I can best justify why I need this product? Here's a >draft I've written. > >I'm looking to purchose a BrailleNote Apex BT 32 which is $6,379 (32 >cell braille display with braille keyboard) I am a licensed southern >Baptist minister, and I'm studying with a seminary through distance >learning in order to obtain a doctorate in theology. > >This device, would assist me in sermon preparation, as I will be >able to wirelessly connect to the internet if I'm on the go, and am >not able to get to my desktop computer. The Braille display, will >assist me in that when I'm delivering my sermon my notes, will be in >front of me, and the braille note will eliminate the need for me to >have to carry a braille volume up to the pulpit with me. I don't >wish to be self relaient, and I feel that the braille note will >give me even greater indendance than ever before. Another reason I >why I feel I need this product, is it has a voice recorder, for me >to record lectures from my fello ministers. If I am chosen to >recieve this money, it will be used for the purpose it was intended, >and nothing else. Sincerely, RJ Sandefur David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 02:45:00 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:45:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] justification for purchasing a braille Note BT References: <80377F56E0AF44218F16F8674E50BF17@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Here's what I've written. I'm looking to purchase a BrailleNote Apex BT 32 which is $6,379. the Apex has a 32 cell refreshable Braille display and a Braille keyboard for inputting text. I am a licensed southern Baptist minister, and I'm studying with Andersonville theological Seminary, through a distance learning program for my doctorate in theology. My courses are on CD, and so while I'm listening to the professor give the CD lecture, I'll be able to take copious notes with this device as well as take then submit my course exams via email to the seminary if I'm not at my desktop computer. My Braille 'n speak 2000, while a basic note taker isn't able to connect to the internet as the Braille note is able to do this. With the Braille 'n speak, I have to wear an ear bod, in order not to disturb others while I'm at meetings. However, with the braille note, I can look at documents via the braille display, with out disturbing others. The BrailleNote will assist me in sermon preparation, as I will be able to wirelessly connect to the internet if I'm on the go, and therefore not able to get to my desktop computer. The Braille display, will assist me in that when I'm delivering my sermon my notes, will be in front of me, and the Braille note will eliminate the need for me to have to carry a Braille volume up to the pulpit with me. I wish to be more self reliant, and I feel as if the Braille note will give me even greater independence. Sincerely, RJ Sandefur ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] justification for purchasing a braille Note BT > You can also add that it will allow you to take notes in meetings etc., as > well as quietly c0onsult those notes, and other documents because of the > Braille display. You can also keep your calendar on the device so you > don't miss those important appointments with your church-goers. > > Dave > > At 06:37 PM 10/27/2010, you wrote: >>I am looking into purchosing a Braille note BT, and I'd like some Ideas on >>how I can best justify why I need this product? Here's a draft I've >>written. >> >>I'm looking to purchose a BrailleNote Apex BT 32 which is $6,379 (32 cell >>braille display with braille keyboard) I am a licensed southern Baptist >>minister, and I'm studying with a seminary through distance learning in >>order to obtain a doctorate in theology. >> >>This device, would assist me in sermon preparation, as I will be able to >>wirelessly connect to the internet if I'm on the go, and am not able to >>get to my desktop computer. The Braille display, will assist me in that >>when I'm delivering my sermon my notes, will be in front of me, and the >>braille note will eliminate the need for me to have to carry a braille >>volume up to the pulpit with me. I don't wish to be self relaient, and I >>feel that the braille note will give me even greater indendance than ever >>before. Another reason I why I feel I need this product, is it has a voice >>recorder, for me to record lectures from my fello ministers. If I am >>chosen to recieve this money, it will be used for the purpose it was >>intended, and nothing else. Sincerely, RJ Sandefur > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Oct 28 03:09:19 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:09:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend References: Message-ID: <003701cb764d$836d2a40$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, There is no text in this message. The attached file is not a text document but is an image file unreadable with screen readers. I wish people would be more careful when it comes to sending attachments to these lists being sure they're in a file format we can all access. Thank you. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rovig,Lorraine (by way of David Andrews )" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:35 PM Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Oct 28 05:06:54 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:06:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend References: <003701cb764d$836d2a40$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <90AE88BD7F024DC4A57EA7C93B4A59DB@D3DTZP41> Hello: The original message I received had four attachments. The fourth attachment was a .txt file that was perfectly readable. For those of you who need it, I am appending the text below my signature. Regards, Robert Jaquiss ---------------- Text attachment from original message ------- NFB member, Jessica Bachicha, to sing lead in Mozart’s opera, “The Magic Flute” WHAT: Opera: CUA to Stage The Magic Flute Blind Doctoral Student to Play Queen of the Night President John Garvey Appears in Walk-on Role Oct. 29 WHEN: Thursday, Oct. 28, 7:30 p.m., preview performance Friday, Oct. 29, and Saturday, Oct. 30, 7:30 p.m. Sunday, Oct. 31, 2 p.m. WHERE: The Catholic University of America Hartke Theatre 620 Michigan Ave., N.E. Washington, D.C. DETAILS: Blind doctoral candidate Jessica Bachicha will perform the role of the Queen of the Night in the Oct. 29 and 31 performances. To read a story about Bachicha, click here. On Oct. 29, Catholic University President John Garvey will appear in a walk-on role in CUA’s production of The Magic Flute, an opera in two acts by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Sung in German with English dialogue, the production is directed by Jay D. Brock, lecturer in the drama department and artistic director of Opera Alterna based in Washington, D.C. David Searle, assistant professor and director of orchestral activities and conducting studies, will lead the CUA Orchestra. The opera, with libretto by Emanuel Shikaneder, chronicles the rescue of Pamina ­ daughter of the Queen of the Night ­ from Sarastro by the hero Tamino, who is armed with a magic flute. Mozart’s final masterpiece is filled with enigmatic references to the Freemasons. The composer and librettist were friends and members of the fraternal organization. Rife with ritual and symbolism, the fairy-tale opera is a playful but profound look at man’s search for love and his struggle to attain wisdom and virtue. The opera features the virtuosic arias of the Queen of the Night and the folksong-like melodies of the bird catcher Papageno. Tickets for the Oct. 28 performance are $10 for general admission and $5 for students, seniors and CUA alumni, faculty and staff. Tickets for the other performances are $15 for general admission and $10 for students, seniors and CUA alumni, faculty and staff. For more information, contact the Benjamin T. Rome School of Music at 202-319-5414. SPONSOR: Benjamin T. Rome School of Music ­30­ #053 Oct. 20, 2010 Blind Doctoral Candidate Blossoms at CUA’s Music School Jessica Bachicha to Play Queen of the Night in The Magic Flute [] Singer Jessica Bachicha with her voice coach Sharon Christman, associate professor and chair of the voice program. Catholic University doctoral candidate Jessica Bachicha stands next to a grand piano in Ward Hall, rehearsing the Queen of the Night’s difficult vengeance aria for the upcoming production of The Magic Flute at Hartke Theatre. As her voice rises, so do her hands. A beaming Sharon Christman, associate professor and chair of the voice program, says “That was beautiful.” But Christman notices that her student’s hand movements do not reflect the drama in her voice. She takes Bachicha’s hands in her own as she demonstrates more expressive gestures. Bachicha focuses on memorizing the movement of her teacher’s hands. As the practice session ends, Bachicha turns and reaches for a water bottle. Her hands rest for a second on a bottle of hand sanitizer, and then she finds the water bottle. The winner of a concerto competition at CUA earlier this year, Bachicha happens to be blind. (To watch a video of Bachicha rehearsing, click here.) Eroica, which recorded Bachicha’s “Illuminations” CD, notes that Bachicha “sings with the freshness of Charlotte Church, the vigor of Maria Callas, and the resonance of Kiri Te Kanawa.” A resident of Baltimore, Bachicha expects to graduate in 2011 with a Doctor of Musical Arts degree. She was accepted at CUA’s Benjamin T. Rome in 2008 following an audition that amazed Christman and other music faculty. At the time, Christman knew that she wanted to work with Bachicha, but she realized she would need the support of other professors. “When I heard Jessica, there wasn’t a doubt in my mind,” says Christman, herself a renowned soprano who sang the Queen of the Night role at the Metropolitan Opera in New York City. “Jessica has a potential performance career. Her voice is lovely; she is beautiful and personable ­ the total package ­ but her stage experience had been somewhat limited.” Bachicha says, “At Catholic University, it’s been so refreshing to work with musicians who recognize me as a peer and realize that’s it not that different from working with a sighted singer. The thing that matters most is musicianship and the faculty here judge me on that alone.” [] Jessica Bachicha At the conservatory where Bachicha earned a master’s degree in vocal performance before coming to CUA, she notes that she learned a lot from the faculty. She performed as a soloist in recitals and in concerts with orchestra and chamber groups. But she did not have the chance to perform a major opera role. With a voice like Bachicha’s, Christman notes, there’s a responsibility to provide the opportunities she needs to realize her full potential. “We have no right to set limits on Jessica when she doesn't set any on herself,” Christman notes. And what better place to grow as an artist than at Catholic University, where faculty members routinely go the extra mile for their students, says Christman. David Searle, assistant professor, director of orchestral activities and conductor of the CUA Orchestra, says that when working with Bachicha, he sometimes gives her an audible cue ­ a loud breath ­ “when there’s no audible pulse in the music.” Bachicha’s academic resume is impressive. In addition to earning her master’s in vocal performance at the New England Conservatory, Bachicha spent a year as a graduate research student at the University of Leeds in England, and earned bachelor’s degrees in music and foreign languages from the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque. As part of her doctoral work at CUA, she is designing interdisciplinary courses that explore the ways in which music reflects philosophical and theological truths. As she explains, “music is a door between the worlds of intellect and affectivity. Beautiful music infused with meaning can bridge the gap that often exists between the two and, more importantly, the longing for realization which moves the will to moral action.” Bachicha notes that her role in The Magic Flute and the opportunity to work with the music faculty has enabled her to grow significantly as a musician. “I have a lot more confidence in myself and in what God wants to do through me,” she says. “It’s so important to be an instrument of the music and to ask ‘how can I do that better?’ The more confidence you have to have in yourself, the more you have to let yourself go and just think about how can I serve better as a musician.” More news from CUA ­30­ #058 Last reviewed: October 20, 2010 Reason. Faith. Service. Contact Us/Directory | Copyright Information | Speech Enabled The Catholic University of America * 620 Michigan Ave., N.E. * Washington, DC 20064 From aphelps at bism.org Thu Oct 28 09:55:08 2010 From: aphelps at bism.org (aphelps at bism.org) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:55:08 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <291422900-1288259709-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1409879799-@bda2475.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please forward this to rehab email list -BISMT Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Rovig, Lorraine" (by way of David Andrews ) Sender: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:35:46 To: Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 28 10:37:37 2010 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma ) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:37:37 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cellphones on the Sprint network Message-ID: The sprint samsung intrepid smart phone is accessible when you install code factory moble speak mobile screen reader. This phone runs microsoft windows mobile 6.5 professional operating system. I like this phone it is great. The phone has full qwerty buttons keyborad & touch screen also From Jacob struiksma -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: 10/27/2010 11:39:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cellphones on the Sprint network Hi listers: Just wondering if anyone knew of an accessible cellphone on Sprint. My parents are considering switching from AT&T, so I want to see if there are any accessible sprint phones (smart phones if possible) Thanks, Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 13:02:54 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:02:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] word2007? Message-ID: <4CC9747E.3080307@gmail.com> Hi I am using word2007 with the latest NVDA and also system access occasionally. I noticed word2007 is very different from word2003. Hoe do I: 1. make a running header? 2. insert headers and footers? 3. if possible replace the ribbon with the classic-style menu bar? 4. insert styles for making daisy books? It seems like word2007 is very different. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 13:12:18 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:12:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] office2007 Message-ID: <4CC976B2.7090807@gmail.com> Hi I'm using office2007 and its interface is equally bothersome for me. If someone can explain how to insert headers and footers, running headers and making certain things different heading styles that would be excellent. If possible when I get books or if I have to scan books I'd like to mark them up then save them as daisy audio using word's save as daisy plug-in. I may also get system-access again and see how it works with word2007. I haven't used it in a month or so. speaking of system access, does it read font and color and style information yet? I held off on getting another build-a-bundle because I'm not sure if serotek has added those features. If only serotek would add those features then I would use build-a-bundle full time. Serotek, I'm in college, have to write papers and need to know about the formatting of my pages in word2007 so please make these changes as soon as possible. Josh From 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu Thu Oct 28 15:21:50 2010 From: 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu (Renee Jones) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:21:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Note Takers Message-ID: On 10/24/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. linux (Josh Kennedy) > 2. Re: Note takers (Ignasi Cambra) > 3. Re: Linux Cost (Ignasi Cambra) > 4. Re: kapten gps by independent living aids (Ignasi Cambra) > 5. Re: Linux Cost (Nimer Jaber) > 6. Re: Note takers (Danielle Montour) > 7. Re: Linux Cost (Mark J. Cadigan) > 8. Fwd: Comprehensive text documentation for JAWS 12.0 > (David Andrews) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:26 -0400 > From: Josh Kennedy > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] linux > Message-ID: <4CC35D16.4020809 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi > > most retailers force you to buy computers with windows. If you want > Linux you have to wipe windows and install Linux. > > Josh > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:51:25 -0400 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > Message-ID: <5A73F2A4-4220-4300-9C97-2AAA47E399B9 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I agree. I would even say that these days an iPhone or iPod touch ends up > being a great notetaker. As of iOS 4.1 you can control VoiceOver from the > keyboard if you need to, just like you would do on a regular Macintosh. I > use a very tiny foldable bluetooth keyboard with my iPhone to take notes, > and it works very, very well. I can use the thing to take notes in class, > browse the internet wherever I am (and it's fast...), check my email, play > games etc. I've use several blindness specific notetakers in the past and > nothing is as good as this. Of course if I ever find something that I like > better and I can afford to buy it, I will. But my iPhone and little keyboard > for whenever I need to type for a long time are working very well right now. > > Ignasi > On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > >> This solution will probably not feel natural to some listers, but I would >> take a serious look at the iPad from Apple. >> >> There will certainly be a learning curve for users new to apple products, >> but these things have the ability to run third party applications that are >> incredibly versatile, and they cost a fraction of the price of a $5000 >> note-taker. >> >> I use a braille sense, but am not sure how good the support will be with >> Hims taking over their own baby here in the united states, and GW Micro >> stepping out of the picture. >> >> My next note-taker if you really care will be from Apple. >> >> Antonio >> >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:36 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> >>> I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and its on its >>> last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, How much does it >>> caust, and does it live up to what is advertised concerning it? I'm not >>> shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a braille note, or a braille >>> sence. I'm on disability, due to some other disabililities I have. I'm >>> also in a distance learning Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in >>> theology. I'm not shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, >>> I have alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to assist >>> me in this reguard? RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:53:05 -0400 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Linux Cost > Message-ID: <8CD49227-B501-48B6-9405-EF068E0A8077 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > There are many PC's that you can buy with a Linux OS preinstalled, although > if you want to use something like Vinux you will need to install it > yourself. You can find linux netbooks for 2 or 300 dollars easily, maybe > even cheaper. > On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do you >> truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer going >> to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of >> Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the >> platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy >> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker >> >> Hi >> >> ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. >> go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on >> the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. >> >> Josh >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:14 -0400 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association > of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > It's a standalone device, although you can connect it to a phone via > bluetooth to use it to answer calls and talk through it. The Kapten comes > with a pair of headphones and a microphone, so you can basically carry your > phone in your bag or something and just use the Kapten to guide you and to > make phone calls via bluetooth. Basically it's a nifty little thing, but the > GPS receiver that's built into it is really not the best out there. I really > think it's enough for a driver or sighted pedestrian though. It will > basically take you to the right place, and it's really cheap. > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >> Does the Capten run with a phone or is it a stand alone device? Does it >> state the intersection type as well as the street names? >> I heard its not too precise. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 11:43 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] kapten gps by independent living aids >> >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Has anyone used the kapten gps by independent living aids? >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:03:27 -0500 > From: Nimer Jaber > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Linux Cost > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello, > > If you find a Linux netbook with ubuntu, you can easly convert it to > Vinux and it is accessible out of the box unless the manufacturer > removed certain accessibility packages. > > Thanks > Nimer J > > On 23/10/2010, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> There are many PC's that you can buy with a Linux OS preinstalled, >> although >> if you want to use something like Vinux you will need to install it >> yourself. You can find linux netbooks for 2 or 300 dollars easily, maybe >> even cheaper. >> On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do >>> you >>> truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer >>> going >>> to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of >>> Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the >>> platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy >>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. >>> go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on >>> the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 02:24:28 -0400 > From: Danielle Montour > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > Message-ID: <4cc3d13a.a369e50a.5f80.ffffb6e0 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > That is my one dream right now is to get either a macbook pro or > IPhone. Thanks for letting me know of this fact about the > iPhone. > > Danni > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:51:25 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note takers > > I agree. I would even say that these days an iPhone or iPod > touch ends up being a great notetaker. As of iOS 4.1 you can > control VoiceOver from the keyboard if you need to, just like you > would do on a regular Macintosh. I use a very tiny foldable > bluetooth keyboard with my iPhone to take notes, and it works > very, very well. I can use the thing to take notes in class, > browse the internet wherever I am (and it's fast...), check my > email, play games etc. I've use several blindness specific > notetakers in the past and nothing is as good as this. Of course > if I ever find something that I like better and I can afford to > buy it, I will. But my iPhone and little keyboard for whenever I > need to type for a long time are working very well right now. > > Ignasi > On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > > This solution will probably not feel natural to some listers, > but I would take a serious look at the iPad from Apple. > > There will certainly be a learning curve for users new to apple > products, but these things have the ability to run third party > applications that are incredibly versatile, and they cost a > fraction of the price of a $5000 note-taker. > > I use a braille sense, but am not sure how good the support will > be with Hims taking over their own baby here in the united > states, and GW Micro stepping out of the picture. > > My next note-taker if you really care will be from Apple. > > Antonio > > > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:36 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > I use a braille 'n speak which I've had for ten years now, and > its on its last leg. What types of note takers do you guys use, > How much does it caust, and does it live up to what is advertised > concerning it? I'm not shure wheather or not to get a packmate, a > braille note, or a braille sence. I'm on disability, due to some > other disabililities I have. I'm also in a distance learning > Seminary, going for my doctorate degree in theology. I'm not > shure how I can purchose a note taker, due to the fact, I have > alot of bills to pay. Would my local lions club be able to > assist me in this reguard? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaug > ht%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hypoplexe > r%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:14:14 -0400 > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Linux Cost > Message-ID: <142494A2F7224D5EB25DBCE8BF59919D at SonyPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > With all this talk about vinux I decided to try it. I installed it on an old > laptop I no longer used. Problem is, it talks when I turn it on, and when I > shut it off, but, no speech while it is running. Orca lodes fine, but, will > not talk. The laptop is a Pentium 3 mobile, with 512mb ram. It was > originally win 98 but, just linix now. > > Thaughts, suggestions, > Thanks > Mark > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nimer Jaber" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Linux Cost > > >> Hello, >> >> If you find a Linux netbook with ubuntu, you can easly convert it to >> Vinux and it is accessible out of the box unless the manufacturer >> removed certain accessibility packages. >> >> Thanks >> Nimer J >> >> On 23/10/2010, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> There are many PC's that you can buy with a Linux OS preinstalled, >>> although >>> if you want to use something like Vinux you will need to install it >>> yourself. You can find linux netbooks for 2 or 300 dollars easily, maybe >>> even cheaper. >>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> I know you supposedly save money on Linux, given it's free, but how do >>>> you >>>> truly save money if you wanted to invest in a new PC? Is a retailer >>>> going >>>> to sell you a product with Linux pre-installed to forego the cost of >>>> Windows? Just curious. I've been intrigued with the Braille+ given the >>>> platform and a lingering interest to return to computer programming. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy >>>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:21 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] vinux notetaker >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> ok if you want eloquence for vinux do the following. >>>> go to www.oralux.net buy voxin. then install it using the directions on >>>> the vinux wiki. copy and paste into the terminal you should be fine. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:59:51 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Comprehensive text documentation for JAWS 12.0 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >> From the archive >>http://EmpowermentZone.com/jfw12doc.zip >> >>This is a comprehensive set of text documentation for the JAWS 12.0 >>screen reader from >>http://FreedomScientific.com >> >>Help files in .chm format were converted to structured text >>format. This format has simple conventions that support additional >>navigation options over plain text. For example, the EdSharp >>editor, available at >>http://EmpowermentZone.com/edsetup.exe >> >>includes hotkeys such as Control+PageDown or Control+PageUp to move >>forward or backward among topical sections in such a >>document. Pressing F6 on a topic name in the table of contents goes >>to the corresponding section in the body. Shift+F6 returns to the >>table of contents from the body. Control+F6 searches for a section >>based on text in its topic name. Alt+F6 searches for the next match. >> >>The following 25 files are included in the archive: >> >>Basics_of_Scripting.txt >>braille.txt >>builtin.txt >>default.txt >>fsdn.txt >>HJAdmin.txt >>HJPad.txt >>JAWS Quick Start Guide.txt >>JAWS Tandem Quick Start Guide.txt >>jconfig.txt >>jdiction.txt >>JFW.txt >>jkey.txt >>jscript.txt >>JTandem.txt >>Keystrokes.txt >>OpenSSL.license.txt >>popapps.txt >>Remote.txt >>ScriptingManual.txt >>SettingsCenter.txt >>SettingsPackager.txt >>tutorial.txt >>winvnc.license.txt >>winvnc.readme.txt >> >> >>At least two files are targeted toward beginning script >>writers: the Basics of Scripting tutorial (Basics_of_Scripting.txt) >>and the original scripting manual called "Everything You Always >>Wanted to Know About Writing JAWS Scripts, But Didn't Know Whom to >>Ask" (ScriptingManual.txt). Advanced scripters may appreciate the >>reference manual for the Freedom Scientific Developer Network >>(fsdn.txt). They may also value the analysis below of differences >>between the scripting languages of JAWS 11 and 12. >> >>---------- >> >> >>Based on a comparison of items available in the insert dialogs of >>JAWS Script Manager, there are 60 new functions, and 12 new scripts, >>in JAWS 12 over JAWS 11. This includes both builtin items and those >>defined in default.jss. >> >> >>---------- >> >> >>60 New Functions in JAWS 12: >> >>AnalyzeTextLine >>AppCommand >>CaretMovedEvent >>ChangeSystemVolume >>CollectionItemExists >>CollectionRemoveAll >>CollectionRemoveItem >>dlgListOfLinks >>EscapeKey >>GetCurrentKeyboardLayoutDisplayName >>GetCurrentKeyboardLayoutText >>GetCurrentSayAllScheme >>GetDescribedByText >>GetNearestLink >>GetRangeInconsistencyByIndex >>GetRangeInconsistencyCount >>GetRibbonStatus >>GetSettingsCenterControlDisabledReason >>GetSettingsCenterControlHelp >>GetWindowExStyleBits >>IndicateInconsistenciesInRange >>IndicateInconsistency >>IsContractedBrailleInputSupported >>IsMovingByCharacter >>IsMovingByFirstOrLastLine >>IsMovingByHomeOrEnd >>IsMovingByLine >>IsMovingByPage >>IsMovingByParagraph >>IsMovingBySentence >>IsMovingByWord >>IsOBUtil >>IsTextAnalysisValid >>LaunchShortcut >>MonitorNewTextEventAlerts >>MoveToControlledTarget >>MoveToRangeInconsistency >>PreProcessKeyPressedEvent >>ProcessHJDialogKeyPressed >>ProcessKeyPressed >>ProcessSpeechOnNewTextEvent >>SayCellFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayCharacterFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayFirstOrLastLineFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayFormattedMessageWithvoice >>SayHomeOrEndFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayLineFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayLineInsteadOfSayAll >>SayPageFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayParagraphFromCaretMovedEvent >>SaySentenceFromCaretMovedEvent >>SayWindowPromptAndTextPostProcess >>SayWordFromCaretMovedEvent >>SelectionChangedEvent >>ShouldProcessSelectionChangedEvent >>ShowScreenSensitiveHelpForVirtualRibbon >>SupportsEditCallbacks >>TextViewerPanLeft >>TextViewerPanRight >>WaitForFocusToMoveTo >> >> >>---------- >> >> >>12 New Scrips in JAWS 12: >> >>ChangeContractedBrailleSetting >>LockKeyboard >>MoveToFirstInconsistency >>MoveToLastInconsistency >>MoveToNextInconsistency >>MoveToNextMailToLink >>MoveToPriorInconsistency >>MoveToPriorMailToLink >>SendApplicationKey >>SettingsCenter >>ToggleCapsLock >>ToggleTextAnalyzer >> > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 26 > ************************************** > -- Renee Jones That's cool! I'm waiting on my Braillenote to get here. I can finally say that I have an awesome DVR Counselor! From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Oct 28 16:26:36 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:26:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend References: <003701cb764d$836d2a40$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <90AE88BD7F024DC4A57EA7C93B4A59DB@D3DTZP41> Message-ID: <006e01cb76bc$e4b70540$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Robert and everyone, I wonder if there's a way to block image attachments making attached text documents easier to find. Thanks for sending the news story. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blind opera singer in The Magic Flute this weekend Hello: The original message I received had four attachments. The fourth attachment was a .txt file that was perfectly readable. For those of you who need it, I am appending the text below my signature. Regards, Robert Jaquiss ---------------- Text attachment from original message ------- NFB member, Jessica Bachicha, to sing lead in Mozart's opera, "The Magic Flute" WHAT: Opera: CUA to Stage The Magic Flute Blind Doctoral Student to Play Queen of the Night President John Garvey Appears in Walk-on Role Oct. 29 WHEN: Thursday, Oct. 28, 7:30 p.m., preview performance Friday, Oct. 29, and Saturday, Oct. 30, 7:30 p.m. Sunday, Oct. 31, 2 p.m. WHERE: The Catholic University of America Hartke Theatre 620 Michigan Ave., N.E. Washington, D.C. DETAILS: Blind doctoral candidate Jessica Bachicha will perform the role of the Queen of the Night in the Oct. 29 and 31 performances. To read a story about Bachicha, click here. On Oct. 29, Catholic University President John Garvey will appear in a walk-on role in CUA's production of The Magic Flute, an opera in two acts by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Sung in German with English dialogue, the production is directed by Jay D. Brock, lecturer in the drama department and artistic director of Opera Alterna based in Washington, D.C. David Searle, assistant professor and director of orchestral activities and conducting studies, will lead the CUA Orchestra. The opera, with libretto by Emanuel Shikaneder, chronicles the rescue of Pamina ­ daughter of the Queen of the Night ­ from Sarastro by the hero Tamino, who is armed with a magic flute. Mozart's final masterpiece is filled with enigmatic references to the Freemasons. The composer and librettist were friends and members of the fraternal organization. Rife with ritual and symbolism, the fairy-tale opera is a playful but profound look at man's search for love and his struggle to attain wisdom and virtue. The opera features the virtuosic arias of the Queen of the Night and the folksong-like melodies of the bird catcher Papageno. Tickets for the Oct. 28 performance are $10 for general admission and $5 for students, seniors and CUA alumni, faculty and staff. Tickets for the other performances are $15 for general admission and $10 for students, seniors and CUA alumni, faculty and staff. For more information, contact the Benjamin T. Rome School of Music at 202-319-5414. SPONSOR: Benjamin T. Rome School of Music ­30­ #053 Oct. 20, 2010 Blind Doctoral Candidate Blossoms at CUA's Music School Jessica Bachicha to Play Queen of the Night in The Magic Flute [] Singer Jessica Bachicha with her voice coach Sharon Christman, associate professor and chair of the voice program. Catholic University doctoral candidate Jessica Bachicha stands next to a grand piano in Ward Hall, rehearsing the Queen of the Night's difficult vengeance aria for the upcoming production of The Magic Flute at Hartke Theatre. As her voice rises, so do her hands. A beaming Sharon Christman, associate professor and chair of the voice program, says "That was beautiful." But Christman notices that her student's hand movements do not reflect the drama in her voice. She takes Bachicha's hands in her own as she demonstrates more expressive gestures. Bachicha focuses on memorizing the movement of her teacher's hands. As the practice session ends, Bachicha turns and reaches for a water bottle. Her hands rest for a second on a bottle of hand sanitizer, and then she finds the water bottle. The winner of a concerto competition at CUA earlier this year, Bachicha happens to be blind. (To watch a video of Bachicha rehearsing, click here.) Eroica, which recorded Bachicha's "Illuminations" CD, notes that Bachicha "sings with the freshness of Charlotte Church, the vigor of Maria Callas, and the resonance of Kiri Te Kanawa." A resident of Baltimore, Bachicha expects to graduate in 2011 with a Doctor of Musical Arts degree. She was accepted at CUA's Benjamin T. Rome in 2008 following an audition that amazed Christman and other music faculty. At the time, Christman knew that she wanted to work with Bachicha, but she realized she would need the support of other professors. "When I heard Jessica, there wasn't a doubt in my mind," says Christman, herself a renowned soprano who sang the Queen of the Night role at the Metropolitan Opera in New York City. "Jessica has a potential performance career. Her voice is lovely; she is beautiful and personable ­ the total package ­ but her stage experience had been somewhat limited." Bachicha says, "At Catholic University, it's been so refreshing to work with musicians who recognize me as a peer and realize that's it not that different from working with a sighted singer. The thing that matters most is musicianship and the faculty here judge me on that alone." [] Jessica Bachicha At the conservatory where Bachicha earned a master's degree in vocal performance before coming to CUA, she notes that she learned a lot from the faculty. She performed as a soloist in recitals and in concerts with orchestra and chamber groups. But she did not have the chance to perform a major opera role. With a voice like Bachicha's, Christman notes, there's a responsibility to provide the opportunities she needs to realize her full potential. "We have no right to set limits on Jessica when she doesn't set any on herself," Christman notes. And what better place to grow as an artist than at Catholic University, where faculty members routinely go the extra mile for their students, says Christman. David Searle, assistant professor, director of orchestral activities and conductor of the CUA Orchestra, says that when working with Bachicha, he sometimes gives her an audible cue ­ a loud breath ­ "when there's no audible pulse in the music." Bachicha's academic resume is impressive. In addition to earning her master's in vocal performance at the New England Conservatory, Bachicha spent a year as a graduate research student at the University of Leeds in England, and earned bachelor's degrees in music and foreign languages from the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque. As part of her doctoral work at CUA, she is designing interdisciplinary courses that explore the ways in which music reflects philosophical and theological truths. As she explains, "music is a door between the worlds of intellect and affectivity. Beautiful music infused with meaning can bridge the gap that often exists between the two and, more importantly, the longing for realization which moves the will to moral action." Bachicha notes that her role in The Magic Flute and the opportunity to work with the music faculty has enabled her to grow significantly as a musician. "I have a lot more confidence in myself and in what God wants to do through me," she says. "It's so important to be an instrument of the music and to ask 'how can I do that better?' The more confidence you have to have in yourself, the more you have to let yourself go and just think about how can I serve better as a musician." More news from CUA ­30­ #058 Last reviewed: October 20, 2010 Reason. Faith. Service. Contact Us/Directory | Copyright Information | Speech Enabled The Catholic University of America * 620 Michigan Ave., N.E. * Washington, DC 20064 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Oct 28 16:29:35 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:29:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Live Streaming of 56th NFB Colorado Convention Message-ID: <325802221B394915B4046CC19F0FEB18@labarre> Greetings, we will be streaming our 56th Annual State Convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado starting at 10:00 a.m. Mountain time tomorrow, noon eastern. There may be a link directly to the streaming, but I know that you can go to nfbco.org and access a link from the home page. You may need to use your screen reader's "links list" to put the link in a list and click on it from there. Our convention agenda is also available in a Word document from the home page. Some of our more techy types may be emailing out the direct link later on. Please tune in and listen to Dr. Maurer and others talk about how we are changing what it means to be blind. Regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. President, NFB Colorado LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 17:33:48 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:33:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501cb76c6$4849cf30$d8dd6d90$@com> Philip, Unfortunately, I do not know of a key stroke to move to the top of a column. I would just do a control G and type in B1, or the corresponding coordinate for whichever column you are interested in. If anybody else knows a keyboard shortcut, I'd be interested to know it. Sean From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 20:00:05 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:00:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: <002501cb76c6$4849cf30$d8dd6d90$@com> References: <002501cb76c6$4849cf30$d8dd6d90$@com> Message-ID: Hi, Sean and all, While we are on the topic of JAWS keystrokes in Excel, does anyone know a way to read the title of a column or row without having to move to the first cell of that column/row? Thanks! Katie On 10/28/10, Sean Whalen wrote: > Philip, > > Unfortunately, I do not know of a key stroke to move to the top of a column. > I would just do a control G and type in B1, or the corresponding coordinate > for whichever column you are interested in. If anybody else knows a keyboard > shortcut, I'd be interested to know it. > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 20:34:45 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:34:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel question In-Reply-To: References: <002501cb76c6$4849cf30$d8dd6d90$@com> Message-ID: <3119F3B9DA534ED1AC245B760E7EE849@Rufus> Katie, Use Insert + V and then type T until you get to Table Options. There you can adjust column and row title announcements, cell cordinants, etc. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katie Wang Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Excel question Hi, Sean and all, While we are on the topic of JAWS keystrokes in Excel, does anyone know a way to read the title of a column or row without having to move to the first cell of that column/row? Thanks! Katie On 10/28/10, Sean Whalen wrote: > Philip, > > Unfortunately, I do not know of a key stroke to move to the top of a column. > I would just do a control G and type in B1, or the corresponding coordinate > for whichever column you are interested in. If anybody else knows a keyboard > shortcut, I'd be interested to know it. > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykat ie6%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 21:50:51 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 17:50:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification Message-ID: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com> Hi Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want and it also costs less than half that price. Josh From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 23:30:43 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach Dreicer Griego) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 17:30:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cellphones on the Sprint network Message-ID: <4cca07ac.157adc0a.6ba9.4844@mx.google.com> hey, #1. In answer to you question - I hear some samsung phones are accessible (see Jake's message). I have heard of some htc phones that are accessible. What I can do for you is #2. Give me a call or reply offlist. I'll hook you up with my friend, Jahmal L, a former sprint user, who should be able to answer such questions. Hope you're having a good day. We should talk sometime, perhaps this weekend? ... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez HI guys: I got a Nokia 6120 with Talx 5.03 for my birthday; everybody brags about being able to use calculators, being able to take notes among other things. As far as I look in my phone I can't find any of these programs! Any help or ideas on where to get podcasts on how this phone works with Talx? I've got the basics of answering calls, sending and receiving messages but can't find any of the programs like calculator and others! Gerardo From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 18:29:09 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:29:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cellphones on the Sprint network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <550EA142-B3A4-437C-AF8C-AD4392EB7DF2@gmail.com> I wouldn't recommend buying anything with Windows MObile 6.x on it just because that operating system is old and Microsoft just released Windows phone 7 and didn't bother making it accessible at all. On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:37 AM, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > The sprint samsung intrepid smart phone is accessible when you install code factory moble speak mobile screen reader. This phone runs microsoft windows mobile 6.5 professional operating system. I like this phone it is great. The phone has full qwerty buttons keyborad & touch screen also From Jacob struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: 10/27/2010 11:39:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cellphones on the Sprint network > Hi listers: > Just wondering if anyone knew of an accessible cellphone on Sprint. > > My parents are considering switching from AT&T, so I want to see if there are any accessible sprint phones (smart phones if possible) > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 20:15:50 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:15:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille Note does? How many cells is the display. I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. Haven't seen one of these. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > Hi > > Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want > and it also costs less than half that price. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 20:34:15 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:34:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] word2007? In-Reply-To: <4CC9747E.3080307@gmail.com> References: <4CC9747E.3080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: I had the same problem with Word 2010, which is not much different from 2007, according to my boyfriend. NBP (National Braille Press) has a book calleed "Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with JAWS" that I'll be getting. It looks quite good, and is $10 in hard-copy or e-Braille, or ASCII (which also includes Word documents), or large print. I definitely suggest getting this book. I have no clue the answers to your questions, but I'm hoping to learn from the book! On 10/28/10, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I am using word2007 with the latest NVDA and also system access > occasionally. I noticed word2007 is very different from word2003. Hoe do I: > 1. make a running header? > 2. insert headers and footers? > 3. if possible replace the ribbon with the classic-style menu bar? > 4. insert styles for making daisy books? > > It seems like word2007 is very different. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 22:22:36 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:22:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com> <386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley> Message-ID: <24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn> I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille > Note does? > How many cells is the display. > I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best > meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. > Haven't seen one of these. Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Josh Kennedy" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >> Hi >> >> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want >> and it also costs less than half that price. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 22:56:37 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:56:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com><386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley> <24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <2B43A422035145D7BBDF489B44595CDC@D9P3ZND1> The Braille plus is mae by APH. http://tech.aph.org/pda_doc.htm The Braille plus does not have a braille display, however it supports external displays. It is less expensive but in my opinion the Braille Note is more powerful. Anjelina Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. Albert Einstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille >> Note does? >> How many cells is the display. >> I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best >> meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. >> Haven't seen one of these. Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Josh Kennedy" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >> >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want >>> and it also costs less than half that price. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 23:33:06 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 19:33:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com><386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley><24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn> <2B43A422035145D7BBDF489B44595CDC@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: Thanks Anjelina, APH has a product that is like the Braille n's speak. Is this it or is that notetaker something else? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > The Braille plus is mae by APH. > http://tech.aph.org/pda_doc.htm > The Braille plus does not have a braille display, however it supports > external displays. It is less expensive but in my opinion the Braille Note > is more powerful. > > Anjelina > Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. > Albert Einstein > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >>I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >> >> >>> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille >>> Note does? >>> How many cells is the display. >>> I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best >>> meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. >>> Haven't seen one of these. Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Josh Kennedy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >>> >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want >>>> and it also costs less than half that price. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 23:36:22 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 19:36:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com> <386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley> <24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: RJ, I have a Braille Note and I'm sure it would meet your needs. With the display you can take and read notes quietly without sspeech. Keep advocating for what you need; its one of the more powerful notetakers there. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille >> Note does? >> How many cells is the display. >> I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best >> meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. >> Haven't seen one of these. Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Josh Kennedy" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >> >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want >>> and it also costs less than half that price. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 23:41:01 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 19:41:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] word2007? References: <4CC9747E.3080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: How many volumes is this book and what topics are covered? Despite the ribbon bar is 2007 as accessible as 2003? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] word2007? >I had the same problem with Word 2010, which is not much different > from 2007, according to my boyfriend. NBP (National Braille Press) has > a book calleed "Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with JAWS" that I'll be > getting. It looks quite good, and is $10 in hard-copy or e-Braille, or > ASCII (which also includes Word documents), or large print. > > I definitely suggest getting this book. I have no clue the answers to > your questions, but I'm hoping to learn from the book! > > On 10/28/10, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> Hi >> >> I am using word2007 with the latest NVDA and also system access >> occasionally. I noticed word2007 is very different from word2003. Hoe do >> I: >> 1. make a running header? >> 2. insert headers and footers? >> 3. if possible replace the ribbon with the classic-style menu bar? >> 4. insert styles for making daisy books? >> >> It seems like word2007 is very different. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 00:12:01 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:12:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com><386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley><24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn><2B43A422035145D7BBDF489B44595CDC@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: <63F0DD113E2140E2A4A3169705640E5C@D9P3ZND1> As far as I know the Braille plus uses a numerical keypad for entering information unlike the Braille 'N Speak. Have you heard anything regarding your justification letter? Anjelina Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. Albert Einstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > Thanks Anjelina, APH has a product that is like the Braille n's speak. Is > this it or is that notetaker something else? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anjelina" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >> The Braille plus is mae by APH. >> http://tech.aph.org/pda_doc.htm >> The Braille plus does not have a braille display, however it supports >> external displays. It is less expensive but in my opinion the Braille >> Note is more powerful. >> >> Anjelina >> Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. >> Albert Einstein >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >> >> >>>I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >>> >>> >>>> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille >>>> Note does? >>>> How many cells is the display. >>>> I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best >>>> meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. >>>> Haven't seen one of these. Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you >>>>> want and it also costs less than half that price. >>>>> >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 00:24:57 2010 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:24:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] History of the NFB Message-ID: Hey Guys, I was wondering if some of the more experienced NFB members could help me with this. :). I'm composing an essay for my AP language class on equality and what does it mean in our society, and I chose to write it on blindness and how attitudes have changed significantly in the last century. I want to know the history of the NFB and how it was created and what it was like in its early years. I think the organization would be a good example of how people are trying to educate the sighted world and give blind people more opportunities to integrate in to society. I'm sure many of you could point me to some good resources on the subject, or even share your own knowledge on the matter. On an unrelated topic, I was thinking of taking a class on Vertual High School, an online program for high school students next semester. I'm not positive if it would work that well with jaws since I heard that a lot of online classes aren't that good. If any of you have experience with VHS, it would be great for me to hear them. Thanks a bunches in advance. Minh -- Patrick: "I'm mad." Spongebob: "What's the matter, Patrick?" Patrick: "I can't see my forehead!" From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 01:11:32 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:11:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com><386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley><24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <63743EDC32484177AB52A4E90E2931AE@hometwxakonvzn> Thanks ashley. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > RJ, I have a Braille Note and I'm sure it would meet your needs. With the > display you can take and read notes quietly without sspeech. > Keep advocating for what you need; its one of the more powerful notetakers > there. > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >>I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >> >> >>> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille >>> Note does? >>> How many cells is the display. >>> I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best >>> meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. >>> Haven't seen one of these. Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Josh Kennedy" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >>> >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you want >>>> and it also costs less than half that price. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 02:47:00 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification References: <4CC9F03B.6080008@gmail.com><386E315FD9B64535BAE216DEB394F630@Ashley><24364E1C8FCB466A924A8282AC437643@hometwxakonvzn><2B43A422035145D7BBDF489B44595CDC@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: <6886B0C9591F4E74A34EE83D46EF2B70@Dezman> Aph did have a version of the braille-n-speak called the Braille Scholar I believe. This is the same as the Icon from Level Star but with a braille keyboard in addition to a telephone style keypad. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > Thanks Anjelina, APH has a product that is like the Braille n's speak. Is > this it or is that notetaker something else? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anjelina" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification > > >> The Braille plus is mae by APH. >> http://tech.aph.org/pda_doc.htm >> The Braille plus does not have a braille display, however it supports >> external displays. It is less expensive but in my opinion the Braille >> Note is more powerful. >> >> Anjelina >> Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. >> Albert Einstein >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >> >> >>>I feel a braille note would meet my needs. RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >>> >>> >>>> Josh, who makes the Braille plus and does it do everything the Braille >>>> Note does? >>>> How many cells is the display. >>>> I think clients should be able to choose the notetaker though that best >>>> meets their needs not what is less expensive or easier for rehab. >>>> Haven't seen one of these. Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:50 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote justification >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> Why not get a braille plus with refreshabraille? it'll do what you >>>>> want and it also costs less than half that price. >>>>> >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 02:54:52 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:54:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] History of the NFB References: Message-ID: <84D8F335D9FC46B0866A3A9A6D1FAF80@Dezman> I think Walking Along and Marching Together would be a relevant book for your project. You can download from the NFB web site and also NLS> Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "minh ha" To: Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [nabs-l] History of the NFB > Hey Guys, > I was wondering if some of the more experienced NFB members could help > me with this. :). I'm composing an essay for my AP language class on > equality and what does it mean in our society, and I chose to write it > on blindness and how attitudes have changed significantly in the last > century. I want to know the history of the NFB and how it was created > and what it was like in its early years. I think the organization > would be a good example of how people are trying to educate the > sighted world and give blind people more opportunities to integrate in > to society. I'm sure many of you could point me to some good resources > on the subject, or even share your own knowledge on the matter. > On an unrelated topic, I was thinking of taking a class on Vertual > High School, an online program for high school students next semester. > I'm not positive if it would work that well with jaws since I heard > that a lot of online classes aren't that good. If any of you have > experience with VHS, it would be great for me to hear them. > Thanks a bunches in advance. > Minh > -- > Patrick: "I'm mad." > Spongebob: "What's the matter, Patrick?" > Patrick: "I can't see my forehead!" > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Sat Oct 30 14:49:37 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:49:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] History of the NFB References: Message-ID: <8E81E67BD73F462191930E3588D95B59@D3DTZP41> Hello Minh: Look at the book Walking Alone and Marching Together. It is on the NFB site. Start looking in the publications area. The first two or three chapters ought to get you started. You can also listen to and read the banquet speeches. Try Dr. Jernigan's 1973 speech Is History Against us. Hope this helps. Regards, Robert Jaquiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "minh ha" To: Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [nabs-l] History of the NFB > Hey Guys, > I was wondering if some of the more experienced NFB members could help > me with this. :). I'm composing an essay for my AP language class on > equality and what does it mean in our society, and I chose to write it > on blindness and how attitudes have changed significantly in the last > century. I want to know the history of the NFB and how it was created > and what it was like in its early years. I think the organization > would be a good example of how people are trying to educate the > sighted world and give blind people more opportunities to integrate in > to society. I'm sure many of you could point me to some good resources > on the subject, or even share your own knowledge on the matter. > On an unrelated topic, I was thinking of taking a class on Vertual > High School, an online program for high school students next semester. > I'm not positive if it would work that well with jaws since I heard > that a lot of online classes aren't that good. If any of you have > experience with VHS, it would be great for me to hear them. > Thanks a bunches in advance. > Minh > -- > Patrick: "I'm mad." > Spongebob: "What's the matter, Patrick?" > Patrick: "I can't see my forehead!" > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From gera1027 at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 15:56:32 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:56:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking recommendations of email lists on accessible celphones? Message-ID: <005601cb784b$07a89480$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: I got for my birthday my first accessible cellphone! a Nokia 6120 with Talx 5.03, and am looking for an email list I could join where these topics are discussed? I want to get the most out of the phone as well as learn tips and tricks that have helped you guys. For instance I found that Talx gives lots more info when setting the view to lists, thus because this isn't on topic I'm wondering of an email list for these subjects. thanks in advanced for any info. Gerardo From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Oct 30 20:32:03 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:32:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] History of the NFB Message-ID: <20101030203203.8321.3343@ip-10-122-221-4.ec2.internal> Minh, First of all, it's wonderful to see you on the NABS list. I hope you're doing well; can you believe it's been over a year since Youth Slam? As to the history of the NFB, Walking Alone and Marching Together catalogs our history from 1940 to 1990 through banquet speeches and other related documents. From 1990 to 1998, there's a book called The Master, The Mission, and the Movement. This book is all Jernigan speeches, but it gives a sense of where we went during the 90's. For more recent history, you could utilize Presidential reports written by Dr. Maurer to fill in those gaps. I think Jernigan also wrote some Presidential reports that you could use. If you want direct documents, consider the Braille Monitor, Presidential releases, Presidential reports, and whatever docs the National Center can release to you. I'd call the Jacobus tenBroek Library and talk to Ed to see what else you can get. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you could even talk to some national staff about matters of interest to get their perspectives since they were actually there during much of our history. I know Dr. Maurer's been actively involved since the late 60's. I want to say 69. There's also a book on tenBroek called Blind Justice that can tell you about what led to his founding the movement in the first place. And for a bunny trail, you may consider reading People of vision from the ACB as it tells much about the Federation and how non-Federationists felt about us during what's known as The Civil War. Jerry Whittle from the Louisiana Center for the Blind is also a great resource on NFB history. Finally, keep in touch with the Living History group as we've been archiving more recent events in the NFB. There's also a book called The Blind Doctor. While it focuses on Jacob Bolotin, there's also some discussion of what life was like for blind job seekers during the early 1900's through the 1930's; this discussion sets the tone and backdrop for Dr. Bolotin and his story, but it's also one of the main reasons we got the Federation started in the first place. Good luck. I'm sorry I can't be of help on the virtual high school thing. But one way to get your questions answered is to talk with both our NFB technology team and the technologists at the institution of your choosing. Between the two groups, I'm sure you can get something worked out and/or test for accessibility/make necessary changes to the platform for your use. Again, good luck. I'm excited to hear more about your A.P. project and hope you fill us in on your progress from time to time. Respectfully Yours, Jedi Moerke Original message: > Hey Guys, > I was wondering if some of the more experienced NFB members could help > me with this. :). I'm composing an essay for my AP language class on > equality and what does it mean in our society, and I chose to write it > on blindness and how attitudes have changed significantly in the last > century. I want to know the history of the NFB and how it was created > and what it was like in its early years. I think the organization > would be a good example of how people are trying to educate the > sighted world and give blind people more opportunities to integrate in > to society. I'm sure many of you could point me to some good resources > on the subject, or even share your own knowledge on the matter. > On an unrelated topic, I was thinking of taking a class on Vertual > High School, an online program for high school students next semester. > I'm not positive if it would work that well with jaws since I heard > that a lot of online classes aren't that good. If any of you have > experience with VHS, it would be great for me to hear them. > Thanks a bunches in advance. > Minh > -- > Patrick: "I'm mad." > Spongebob: "What's the matter, Patrick?" > Patrick: "I can't see my forehead!" > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Oct 30 22:45:23 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:45:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking recommendations of email lists on accessiblecelphones? References: <005601cb784b$07a89480$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: Gerardo, I don't know about lists, but The AFB Access world magazine on their website may have some reviews of cell phones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "BlindStudents" Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 11:56 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking recommendations of email lists on accessiblecelphones? > Hi guys: I got for my birthday my first accessible cellphone! a Nokia 6120 > with Talx 5.03, and am looking for an email list I could join where these > topics are discussed? I want to get the most out of the phone as well as > learn tips and tricks that have helped you guys. For instance I found that > Talx gives lots more info when setting the view to lists, thus because > this > isn't on topic I'm wondering of an email list for these subjects. > thanks in advanced for any info. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Oct 30 22:48:33 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:48:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: <671CE794CBB648E1A43326CD4495D7BC@AnitaAdkinsPC> <67A1F596F0FA4F89B167985E61EBC269@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: <3DFE6BF25823410EB758A652EB0DB198@Ashley> Anita I haven't heard of these. Sounds handy for a beginner cook; crock pots are nice since they cook your stuff at a low temp evenly for a long time. Who makes the mealkits? Like what brand and is it found in a box or what? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Adkins" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > One more thing as a quick note. If you like chicken and dumplings or beef > stew. you can get mealkits for your crockpot. There may be others, but I > don't remember for sure. It has everything included with it. You add a > specific amount of water and milk (the bag tells when to add milk if it is > needed), and you're set. With the dumplings, I know you leave the > dumpling part in the freezer and just dump the veggies and meat in the > crockpot (with a certain amount of water) until about a half hour before > its done. Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, but I haven't checked > the rest of the email yet. I know you can also get such dinners for the > microwave, but I have done some in a skillet on the stove, but not the > microwave, and so I am not sure the exact directions. Just FYI. Anita > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" ; > "blind-cooks" > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:40 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Hi Everyone! >> >> Thanks for all the help/suggestions. I now understand that the >> tablespoon is the measuring spoon. >> >> I also understand that cooking is a very experimental thing and there >> is no exact way of doing things. I will try to be a little more >> relaxed and just experiment. >> >> I did have a couple more questions though, particularly related to >> making chicken breasts. I am trying to make my grocery list. I am >> trying to keep it limited to the items I need for the recipes I want >> to make, and other very necessary items. I am also trying to clean out >> my freezer. I have one chicken breast left. Can anyone give me any >> suggestions or recomendations of any premade sauces, seasonings, or >> marinades I can put on it? I don't like BBQ sauce much. Should I just >> go with roticery flavoring? My grocery stores are Kroger (also called >> King Super-savers in other areas), Walmart, and Giant Eagle. Kroger is >> the closest and would be the easiest to get to. I know someone else >> (pretty sure it was Jewel) suggested Pineapple chicken, which sounds >> good but from looking at the recipes it's not as simple as pouring >> pineapple juice on the chicken, and putting it into the oven or on the >> grill. I'd like to keep this to a simple premade sauce, flavoring >> (like roticery), seasoning, or bottled marinade that you just pour on >> the chicken and cook. I know someone else suggested BBQ sauce, but I >> don't like BBQ sauce very much. >> >> I will be going to the store by myself, and so was planning on just >> getting help from customer service. I love the idea of browsing and >> just picking something random that sounds tasty but can you do that >> with a customer service person? I thought with them you kind of had to >> have your list and such ready..they don't have much time to "browse" >> do they? >> >> Also, what oven mits do you recomend? I saw some on >> www.blindmicemart.com that say you can grip things with them and can >> withstand temperatures of up to 500 degrees. They seem a bit >> expensive, but do many of you use them or do you just use cheap cloth >> ones? The cloth ones make it really hard to grip things, so I'd like >> to find a better pair. >> >> Thanks, >> Kerri >> >> On 9/29/10, Anita Adkins wrote: >>> sounds like you need to do some experimenting, meaning trying these >>> things >>> out on your own. Wanted to email though to mention that I found a meat >>> thermometer at Independent Living Aids for only around 30 dollars or so, >>> and >>> so it would be cheaper for you. www.independentliving.com >>> Anita >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Hi All! >>>> >>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to >>>> experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had >>>> some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>> >>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I >>>> have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make >>>> some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also >>>> totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>> >>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for >>>> eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>> >>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read >>>> several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then >>>> stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 >>>> minute intervals? >>>> >>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of >>>> butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just >>>> cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at >>>> all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much >>>> butter in? >>>> >>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>> >>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>> >>>> >>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I >>>> mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once >>>> the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether >>>> the sauce is mixed or not? >>>> >>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are >>>> many different types. >>>> >>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of >>>> you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste >>>> the same as browning it on the stove? >>>> >>>> >>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how >>>> to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old >>>> after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy >>>> that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I >>>> know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic >>>> level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. >>>> >>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get >>>> the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>> >>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that >>>> mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to >>>> mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you >>>> eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you >>>> also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over >>>> this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much! >>>> Kerri >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Oct 30 22:52:47 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:52:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: <12AD2ED56DDA41FE970DB490DBF35339@Ashley> Arielle, Is Shake-n-Bake made for only one chicken breast? Does it have enough seasoning in the pack for several chickens? Do you bake the chicken for a preset time and its done then? Growing up we didn't eat many premade things because my mom cooked healthier food. But this type of thing sounds simple and good. Do you have to add anything such as water to the chicken? Thanks. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi all, > > There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for > chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind > doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken > marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the > aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken > product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just > coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in > it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can > get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. > > You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone > else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless > number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or > two ingredients. > > Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you > can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for > "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. > > Arielle > > On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >> From >> Jacob Struiksma >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >> chicken >> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >> >> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken >> for >> soup. >> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >> >> >> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of >> Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Hi Kerri, >>>> >>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >> microwave. >>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>> >>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>> don't like them. >>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>> again! >>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>> >>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>> 15 second intervals. >>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>> >>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>> >>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>> >>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >>>> >>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>> plain ones. >>>> >>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>> >>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>> more taste. >>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>> >>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>> and experimenting. >>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>> center I went to in state. >>>> >>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>> stuff. >> >>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>> mind first. >>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine >> does. >>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>> you. >>>> >>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>> know what all is there. >>>> >>>> Good luck. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi All! >>>>> >>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>> >>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>> >>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>> >>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>> >>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>> too much butter in? >>>>> >>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>> >>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>> >>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>> are many different types. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>> something >> simple. >>>>> >>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>> >>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>> Kerri >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>> wavecable.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Oct 30 23:30:20 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:30:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] basic cooking questions about meat Message-ID: Hi all, I'm abeginner cook as well. Some questions. How do you determine that meat is done? I know the package or recipie gives you an estimate but ovens vary and sighted people look at it. I know the firmness is probably one way. To make a hamburger on the stove, you cook it in a skillet. But how do you know when to turn it? Common knowledge? How do you know its done? Same for pork chops; my mom cooks them in a skillet and seasons them a little. How do you know its done? What prepackaged things are out there for meat? Is hamburger helper salty? Maybe I'll try it if its not too processed and salty. Thanks. Ashley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Oct 30 23:35:21 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:35:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage Message-ID: Hi all What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? Thanks. Ashley From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Oct 30 23:42:02 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:42:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] basic cooking questions about meat References: Message-ID: <49838A3906E44691A453F364D7A7AD14@stanford.edu> It is different for different foods. When I cook hamburger, I usually scramble it rather than cooking a paddy. That way, I don't have to worry as much about it being cooked all the way through. For things in the oven, the best bet is timing, and then a little more if you're not sure. You can also get a talking meat thermometer for meat on the stove. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: [nabs-l] basic cooking questions about meat > Hi all, > > I'm abeginner cook as well. Some questions. How do you determine that > meat is done? I know the package or recipie gives you an estimate but > ovens vary and sighted people look at it. I know the firmness is probably > one way. > > To make a hamburger on the stove, you cook it in a skillet. But how do > you know when to turn it? Common knowledge? How do you know its done? > Same for pork chops; my mom cooks them in a skillet and seasons them a > little. How do you know its done? > What prepackaged things are out there for meat? Is hamburger helper salty? > Maybe I'll try it if its not too processed and salty. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Oct 30 23:46:38 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:46:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage References: Message-ID: The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I cook it and put away the left overs right away. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage > Hi all > > What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal > preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? > Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses > dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it > goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From rob_blach at hotmail.com Sat Oct 30 23:49:12 2010 From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:49:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] basic cooking questions about meat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ?For this question meat temperature will also tell you when somethings done. For example most meats are at 164 for well doneand if you have a talking meat thermometer then you will know ok 164 it's done or whatever that particular meat is suppose to be. -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:30 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] basic cooking questions about meat > Hi all, > > I'm abeginner cook as well. Some questions. How do you determine that > meat is done? I know the package or recipie gives you an estimate but > ovens vary and sighted people look at it. I know the firmness is probably > one way. > > To make a hamburger on the stove, you cook it in a skillet. But how do > you know when to turn it? Common knowledge? How do you know its done? > Same for pork chops; my mom cooks them in a skillet and seasons them a > little. How do you know its done? > What prepackaged things are out there for meat? Is hamburger helper salty? > Maybe I'll try it if its not too processed and salty. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 17:55:00 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 13:55:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Ashley and all, I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and how well does it work? Thanks! Katie On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. > Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I > will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it > just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I > freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In > general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, > especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I > cook it and put away the left overs right away. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage > > >> Hi all >> >> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses >> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it >> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Oct 31 18:25:17 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:25:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Though I don't own one, I got to use one at one point with some basic products. It seems to work ok. Infact, the one I used had too much information on it, because it read me everything that was on the label. Too much for me at the time, but certainly useful for someone who'd have a need for it. Jorge On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi, Ashley and all, > I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for > canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional > labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and > how well does it work? Thanks! > Katie > > On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. >> Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I >> will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it >> just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I >> freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In >> general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, >> especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I >> cook it and put away the left overs right away. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >> >> >>> Hi all >>> >>> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >>> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >>> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses >>> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it >>> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 19:21:47 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:21:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <313F20FD-8AD5-45DE-A488-693C688B56F6@gmail.com> I agree. Sometimes you get more information than you need. There are some solutions on the iPhone that work quite well. I use an app called oMoby which is not only a barcode reader. You can take a picture of pretty much anything and it will identify it for you. It works with food, money and if you take a picture of your clothes it will even tell you what color they are. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Though I don't own one, > I got to use one at one point with some basic products. > It seems to work ok. Infact, the one I used had too much information on it, because it read me everything that was on the label. Too much for me at the time, but certainly useful for someone who'd have a need for it. > > Jorge > > > > > > On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Ashley and all, >> I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for >> canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional >> labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and >> how well does it work? Thanks! >> Katie >> >> On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>> The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. >>> Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I >>> will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it >>> just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I >>> freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In >>> general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, >>> especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I >>> cook it and put away the left overs right away. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >>> >>> >>>> Hi all >>>> >>>> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >>>> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >>>> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses >>>> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it >>>> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Oct 31 19:24:09 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:24:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage In-Reply-To: <313F20FD-8AD5-45DE-A488-693C688B56F6@gmail.com> References: <313F20FD-8AD5-45DE-A488-693C688B56F6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is that the one that I heard about a few months back cost $29? Jorge On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I agree. Sometimes you get more information than you need. There are some solutions on the iPhone that work quite well. I use an app called oMoby which is not only a barcode reader. You can take a picture of pretty much anything and it will identify it for you. It works with food, money and if you take a picture of your clothes it will even tell you what color they are. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Though I don't own one, >> I got to use one at one point with some basic products. >> It seems to work ok. Infact, the one I used had too much information on it, because it read me everything that was on the label. Too much for me at the time, but certainly useful for someone who'd have a need for it. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Katie Wang wrote: >> >>> Hi, Ashley and all, >>> I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for >>> canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional >>> labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and >>> how well does it work? Thanks! >>> Katie >>> >>> On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>>> The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. >>>> Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I >>>> will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it >>>> just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I >>>> freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In >>>> general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, >>>> especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I >>>> cook it and put away the left overs right away. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all >>>>> >>>>> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >>>>> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >>>>> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses >>>>> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it >>>>> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 19:37:17 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:37:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage In-Reply-To: References: <313F20FD-8AD5-45DE-A488-693C688B56F6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57DD1FA7-892E-42CF-9E20-EFC4CB78C64F@gmail.com> I don't think so. I either got it for free or for very little money, I can't remember. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Is that the one that I heard about a few months back cost $29? > > Jorge > > > > On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> I agree. Sometimes you get more information than you need. There are some solutions on the iPhone that work quite well. I use an app called oMoby which is not only a barcode reader. You can take a picture of pretty much anything and it will identify it for you. It works with food, money and if you take a picture of your clothes it will even tell you what color they are. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Though I don't own one, >>> I got to use one at one point with some basic products. >>> It seems to work ok. Infact, the one I used had too much information on it, because it read me everything that was on the label. Too much for me at the time, but certainly useful for someone who'd have a need for it. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Katie Wang wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Ashley and all, >>>> I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for >>>> canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional >>>> labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and >>>> how well does it work? Thanks! >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>>>> The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. >>>>> Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I >>>>> will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it >>>>> just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I >>>>> freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In >>>>> general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, >>>>> especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I >>>>> cook it and put away the left overs right away. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >>>>>> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >>>>>> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses >>>>>> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it >>>>>> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Oct 31 19:43:39 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:43:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage References: <313F20FD-8AD5-45DE-A488-693C688B56F6@gmail.com> <57DD1FA7-892E-42CF-9E20-EFC4CB78C64F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <73996EC8603341C78604403E1A143B6B@stanford.edu> It's free; just downloaded it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >I don't think so. I either got it for free or for very little money, I >can't remember. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Is that the one that I heard about a few months back cost $29? >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> >>> I agree. Sometimes you get more information than you need. There are >>> some solutions on the iPhone that work quite well. I use an app called >>> oMoby which is not only a barcode reader. You can take a picture of >>> pretty much anything and it will identify it for you. It works with >>> food, money and if you take a picture of your clothes it will even tell >>> you what color they are. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> >>>> Though I don't own one, >>>> I got to use one at one point with some basic products. >>>> It seems to work ok. Infact, the one I used had too much information on >>>> it, because it read me everything that was on the label. Too much for >>>> me at the time, but certainly useful for someone who'd have a need for >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Ashley and all, >>>>> I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for >>>>> canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional >>>>> labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and >>>>> how well does it work? Thanks! >>>>> Katie >>>>> >>>>> On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>>>>> The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. >>>>>> Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like >>>>>> pasta, I >>>>>> will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like >>>>>> pizza, it >>>>>> just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long >>>>>> time, I >>>>>> freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. >>>>>> In >>>>>> general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, >>>>>> especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon >>>>>> as I >>>>>> cook it and put away the left overs right away. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >>>>>>> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >>>>>>> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually >>>>>>> uses >>>>>>> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Oct 31 19:47:24 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:47:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage In-Reply-To: <73996EC8603341C78604403E1A143B6B@stanford.edu> References: <313F20FD-8AD5-45DE-A488-693C688B56F6@gmail.com> <57DD1FA7-892E-42CF-9E20-EFC4CB78C64F@gmail.com> <73996EC8603341C78604403E1A143B6B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <6F720010-B6A3-421B-88C0-D9F2EC1ACEA7@mac.com> Thanks for the info Nicole, I'll be downloading that one soon too. Jorge On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > It's free; just downloaded it. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage > > >> I don't think so. I either got it for free or for very little money, I can't remember. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Is that the one that I heard about a few months back cost $29? >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> >>>> I agree. Sometimes you get more information than you need. There are some solutions on the iPhone that work quite well. I use an app called oMoby which is not only a barcode reader. You can take a picture of pretty much anything and it will identify it for you. It works with food, money and if you take a picture of your clothes it will even tell you what color they are. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> >>>>> Though I don't own one, >>>>> I got to use one at one point with some basic products. >>>>> It seems to work ok. Infact, the one I used had too much information on it, because it read me everything that was on the label. Too much for me at the time, but certainly useful for someone who'd have a need for it. >>>>> >>>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Ashley and all, >>>>>> I heard that a bar code scanner can be used to read the lables for >>>>>> canned and frozen foods so one can save the work of traditional >>>>>> labeling. Has anyone had any experience with this type of product and >>>>>> how well does it work? Thanks! >>>>>> Katie >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/30/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>>>>>> The containers that I use for left over storage depend on what it is. >>>>>>> Generally, if it is something that is not one solid chunk, like pasta, I >>>>>>> will store it in a zip or glad container. If it is something like pizza, it >>>>>>> just goes in a zip lock bag. If I want something to last for a long time, I >>>>>>> freeze it. I cannot smell, so I cannot say whether or not that works. In >>>>>>> general, if it is more than 2 or 3 days old, it probably needs to go, >>>>>>> especially if it is meat. Also, I tend to divide up my food as soon as I >>>>>>> cook it and put away the left overs right away. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:35 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] labeling food products and storage >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What do you use for labeling food products? I reccon its personal >>>>>>>> preference. I know about dimo tape. what about freezer products? >>>>>>>> Also what do you store leftovers in? Tupaware? My family usually uses >>>>>>>> dishes with wrapping on it such as tin foil. How can you tell when it >>>>>>>> goes bad? You can't see mold. Is smell a good indicator? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 21:58:17 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:58:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] word2007? In-Reply-To: References: <4CC9747E.3080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: I couldn't find any reference to how many volumes the book is, but I did find topic information. This is information directly from the APH website. Here are some of the topics covered: Chapters include: • Definition of Terms • Navigating the Ribbon • The Office Menu • The Quick Access Toolbar • The Home Tab • The Insert Tab • Page Layout • Mailings • Protecting Documents • Keyboard Commands appendix • Backing Up Your Files and Computer On 10/29/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > How many volumes is this book and what topics > are covered? > > Despite the ribbon bar is 2007 as accessible as 2003? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel S." > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:34 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] word2007? > > >>I had the same problem with Word 2010, which is not much different >> from 2007, according to my boyfriend. NBP (National Braille Press) has >> a book calleed "Exploring Microsoft Word 2007 with JAWS" that I'll be >> getting. It looks quite good, and is $10 in hard-copy or e-Braille, or >> ASCII (which also includes Word documents), or large print. >> >> I definitely suggest getting this book. I have no clue the answers to >> your questions, but I'm hoping to learn from the book! >> >> On 10/28/10, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I am using word2007 with the latest NVDA and also system access >>> occasionally. I noticed word2007 is very different from word2003. Hoe do >>> I: >>> 1. make a running header? >>> 2. insert headers and footers? >>> 3. if possible replace the ribbon with the classic-style menu bar? >>> 4. insert styles for making daisy books? >>> >>> It seems like word2007 is very different. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Oct 31 22:13:35 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:13:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Bluetooth Keyboard and iPhone Message-ID: Sorry for the slightly OT post, but does anyone use a bluetooth keyboard with an iPhone? If so, please email me off list. Nicole