From aec732 at msn.com Wed Sep 1 00:52:55 2010 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:52:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Becky, I think Ihave a solution! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To Becky about the Stream: If you are, in fact, copying files from the file called RFB&D Downloads, THAT'S THE PROBLEM!! You should be copying the file from the folder called RFB&D MEDIA FILES. Why not save yourself the hassle of using this list and not solvingthe problem; just call Tech Support at RFB&D and a patient and savvy representative will personally walk you through the process step by step.800-221-4792. Annemarie Cooke From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Sep 1 02:25:34 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:25:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?Critical_Funding_Shortage_Threatens_NFB-N?= =?iso-8859-1?q?EWSLINE=AE_in_Michigan?= Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Larry Posont, President National Federation of the Blind of Michigan Phone: (313) 271-3058 E-mail: president.nfb.mi at gmail.com Scott White, Director, NFB-NEWSLINE® Phone: (410) 659-9314, extension 2231 E-mail: swhite at nfb.org Critical Funding Shortage Threatens NFB-NEWSLINE® in Michigan Thousands of Print-Disabled Michigan Residents May Lose Free, Independent Access to Newspapers and Magazines Baltimore, Maryland (August 31, 2010): Due to lack of funding, NFB-NEWSLINE®, a free service that provides independent access by print-disabled people to hundreds of local and national publications and TV listings, will be turned off in Michigan, effective October 1, 2010. Termination of this service will drastically limit the ability of thousands of print-disabled Michigan residents to obtain in-depth information about international affairs, local events, and breaking news easily and independently. NFB-NEWSLINE® allows those who cannot read conventional newsprint due to a visual or physical disability to listen to newspapers and magazines over the telephone, on the Web, or by download to a digital talking-book player. Through the service, print-disabled people can access over three hundred newspapers and magazines independently, determining how, when, and where they wish to read their favorite publications. If funding is not found on or before October 1, 2010, blind and print-disabled Michigan residents will no longer have access to NFB-NEWSLINE®. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “With NFB-NEWSLINE®, blind and print-disabled people can benefit from the vital news contained in newspapers and magazines. Access to information such as analyses of current events, political commentary, and international news helps all individuals, including the print-disabled, to be successful participants in their workplaces and in the world. NFB-NEWSLINE® offers us the ability to read the news independently, choosing the content that is of interest to us. As a subscriber, I truly benefit from the service every day, and would very much miss reading the paper with my morning cup of coffee.” NFB-NEWSLINE® offers six Michigan newspapers, including the Detroit Free Press, the Detroit News, the Flint Journal, Grand Rapids Press, Lansing State Journal, and the Mining Journal, as well as the Michigan Associated Press wire feed. In addition to state newspapers from Michigan and across the nation, subscribers have access to many national publications, including the New York Times, USA Today, Popular Science, the Economist, and the Christian Science Monitor. NFB-NEWSLINE® also provides print-disabled Michigan residents access to information from state agencies and legislative bodies that can otherwise be difficult to obtain. Through a state-specific channel on the service, entities such as the Michigan Commission for the Blind, Michigan Legislative Service Bureau, the Michigan State House of Representatives, and the Michigan State Senate can provide, at no cost, vital information to this population in an accessible format. “This truly is a crisis for the blind and print-disabled of Michigan, as we will be losing an incredibly valuable service that helps us to connect with the world at large and with our own communities,” said Larry Posont, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan. “With NFB-NEWSLINE®, for more than ten years I have been able to read the Wall Street Journal, Roll Call, and the New York Times to keep up on national news and to learn about economic forecasts and pending governmental legislation. I also read the Lansing State Journal to learn about events in my community. Losing this innovative service would have a profoundly negative impact on my life, as the service helps me not only as a citizen and retired businessman, but also in my role as an advocate for the blind in Michigan State.” Peter Zaremba, a blind resident of Michigan, said: “Using NFB-NEWSLINE® I can access at any time and at any place the same essential and entertaining news that my sighted peers enjoy. This helps me to be successful in my business of course, but also in my relationships with others, as conversations with colleagues, neighbors, and friends often revolve around the news of the day. It would be virtually impossible for me to obtain the news I need without NFB-NEWSLINE® and I would miss having access to this invaluable resource were it to be shut down.” Scott White, director of NFB-NEWSLINE®, said: “While it would be a great shame to close this vital service to blind Michigan residents, unless we are able to locate or are provided with a funding source, we have no choice but to turn off NFB-NEWSLINE® in Michigan on October 1.” To learn how you can help keep NFB-NEWSLINE® available in Michigan, please call Larry Posont, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan, at (313) 271-3058 or send e-mail to president.nfb.mi at gmail.com. To learn more about NFB-NEWSLINE®, please visit www.nfbnewsline.org. ### About the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan With chapters in all major cities, the Michigan affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the Great Lakes State. Since 1941, in connection with thousands of blind Michigan residents, the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan has worked to improve the lives of blind citizens in its affiliate through advocacy, education, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. From spangler.robert at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 14:06:14 2010 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 10:06:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 Message-ID: Hello all, My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using Blackboard? Thanks, -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of Arts and Sciences From dianefilipe at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 1 15:10:01 2010 From: dianefilipe at peoplepc.com (Diane) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:10:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Out of office Message-ID: Due to the death of my Grandma, at this point, I will be out of the office for an undetermined amount of time. Diane From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 21:14:25 2010 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 17:14:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB state scholarships and convention Message-ID: Hi all, this is a reminder that if you are a student living or who will soon be living in NY state, and would like to apply for our state scholarship, you may do so by going to http://nfbny.org/Scholsrships.htm Also, for those of you who are not on our mailing list and would like to join our division, just look for us on nfbnet.org under NYABS (New York Association of Blind Students), and say hello. Our 54th State convention is coming up over the weekend of October 22-24 at the Adams Mark Hotel, 120 Church Street, Buffalo, NY 14202. Details on our student division will be up soon! we would love for you to join us! Check out our convention details http://nfbny.org/Convention%202010.htm Thanks for reading, Alex Castillo From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 00:35:10 2010 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 17:35:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Wireshark Message-ID: Hi all, I am taking a class in computer networks and we are using Wireshark for packet sniffing. I am using wineyes 7.2. I was wondering if anyone has used this softwear and has any advice. My quick look at it makes it appear 100% not designed for accessibility. Thanks, Bill Lewis & Clark '11 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 00:38:14 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:38:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In Message-ID: Hey all, I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD already and have the process started for NLS books. DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop date. So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait till next semester to get going with school. In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in time for school to start. This means that any student who needs equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff comes in). Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their state? My local president and state president are pushing me to self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all their goals by having a limited college prep placements... It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! ~Jewel -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 00:54:07 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:54:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Jewel, How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, I'm not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it work. >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so forgiving when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell at me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of the challenges than the abilities. Respectfully, Joe P.S. You can hear the song here: http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In Hey all, I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD already and have the process started for NLS books. DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop date. So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait till next semester to get going with school. In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in time for school to start. This means that any student who needs equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff comes in). Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their state? My local president and state president are pushing me to self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all their goals by having a limited college prep placements... It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! ~Jewel -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 01:29:48 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:29:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early arrival was out, too. Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like vocabulary and names). Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping me from being all I can be is not acceptable. ~JEwel On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, I'm > not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class > assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be > working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it work. > >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to > postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you > should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so forgiving > when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell at > me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's > frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of the > challenges than the abilities. > > Respectfully, > > Joe > > P.S. You can hear the song here: > > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 > 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > Hey all, > I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD > already and have the process started for NLS books. > > DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in > (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), > they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from > the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of > semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only > 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop > date. > > So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait > till next semester to get going with school. > > In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the > funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before > school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in > time for school to start. This means that any student who needs > equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't > start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's > ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the > first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of > taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good > accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the > VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already > have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff > comes in). > > Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their > state? My local president and state president are pushing me to > self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm > a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be > demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I > need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more > time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed > into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week > maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, > so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also > hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive > college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I > was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of > working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and > there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the > things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college > prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's > supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor > woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all > their goals by having a limited college prep placements... > > It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be > gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! > > ~Jewel > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 2 02:03:13 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:03:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: Jewel, Don't feel bad. I know how the department for the blind says one thing and does another; sometimes they're earlier with tools and services and sometimes later. Very unpredictable agencies. But yes its got to be frustrating to wonder if you did the right decission. Well its done so I'd suggest using this time wisely; read the mannuals and get training on your equipment, volunteer, and stay active. You are totally right you can work at full potential with all equipment. Sighted students have many tools at their disposal to succeed and blind students shouldn't have to settle with less and struggle. I am also a tactile learner and use my braille display on the Braille Note primarily; I rarely use the speech function. I could not do without all my tools from the simple old fashion to the advanced technology. I think you'll do well with all the tools you need and have a fresh start next semester. I would not go to school with a computer that was old and unreliable. I'd rather wait for new updated equipment to arrive as well. I don't understand why you had to leave so early in the morning around 6:00; you must have had very early classes at 8:00 or earlier. Maybe you can split up your schedule next semester so class days are not so long. Good luck! Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, >> I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it >> work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so >> forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell >> at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of >> the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 2 02:13:00 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 19:13:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: <007f01cb4a44$5e8531d0$6601a8c0@server> Hello Jewel, You made the right decision, and your ability to make this decision means that you are going to do well in life. Too many people, particularly those who are blind, simply plough forward without appropriate tools or training and merely hope for the best. This almost never works out well and this is why we have so many blind people with 2.0 GPA's instead of 4.0 GPA's. Hang in there, and move forward when you know you are ready to run the race and win. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, >> I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it >> work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so >> forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell >> at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of >> the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From enews at codefactory.info Thu Sep 2 02:18:26 2010 From: enews at codefactory.info (Code Factory News (no reply)) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:18:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak and Windows Phone 7 Message-ID: Logo Code Factory Caroline Ragot - Marketing Director marketing at codefactory.es Windows Phone 7 Mobile Speak for Windows Mobile, 5 years of successes and challenges Code Factory products will not be compatible with the initial versions of Windows Phone 7 Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, September, 1st, 2010 Code Factory has always shown a great commitment to keep up-to-date with the latest mobile phone technology. Back in 2005, Code Factory launched Mobile Speak Pocket. “Many of our users were asking us to make Windows Mobile Pocket PCs accessible, because at the time they were the only professional-oriented mobile devices,” explained Eduard Sánchez, Code Factory’s CEO. “One of our top priorities has always been to allow our professional blind and visually impaired users to be as efficient and productive as their sighted peers. Therefore, based on the experience of Mobile Speak for Symbian phones released two years earlier, we put together all our passion, knowledge and effort and developed Mobile Speak for Windows Mobile”. In five years, Code Factory took up many challenges with the Windows Mobile platform, including support for the first touchscreen devices; support for hundreds of devices from more than fifteen different manufacturers such as HTC, HP, Motorola, and Samsung; support for customized firmware from carriers from all over the world; and support for five new operating system (OS) versions, from Windows Mobile 2003 SE to Windows Mobile 6.5. Microsoft has announced the upcoming release of Windows Phone 7. Windows Phone 7 is not an upgraded version of Windows Mobile 6.5. It is a brand-new OS, which means that applications built for Windows Mobile 6.x or earlier will not run on Windows Phone 7. As a software developer, Code Factory is facing the same issues as mainstream companies such as Mozilla, Adobe or Skype. “Windows Phone 7 doesn't support native code development, which means that it is technically impossible to develop a screen reader application without the direct help of Microsoft, the OS maker”, explained Eduard Sánchez. “Therefore Mobile Speak, Mobile Geo, and Mobile Magnifier will not run on the initial version of Windows Phone 7”. However, Mobile Speak, Mobile Magnifier and Mobile Geo will of course keep running on supported Windows Mobile devices. Also, the Windows Mobile 6.5 devices won't disappear from the market all at once, and Code Factory’s customers should still be able to acquire them for a reasonable period of time after the release of Windows Phone 7. “We have been talking with Microsoft for the last few months to try to remedy the situation and come up with an accessible solution for Windows Phone 7 as soon as possible. In fact, we waited until now to make this announcement because we were hoping that together with Microsoft we could find a solution before the release of the first Windows Phone 7 devices, but unfortunately this will not be the case” added Eduard Sánchez. “Microsoft has always been willing to put accessibility on its road map, however it hasn't been possible for the first release of Windows Phone 7. We at Code Factory are at their entire disposal to provide our assistance and expertise”. Greg Sullivan, Senior Product Manager at Microsoft Mobile Communications Business Group said, "We understand that the initial Windows Phone 7 release doesn't live up to some expectations in specific scenarios but as we work on future versions of the technology we hope to learn from the Accessibility Community about what scenarios and features will allow Windows Phone to appeal to more users." Eduard Sánchez concluded, “Developing Mobile Speak for Windows Mobile has taught us a lot and we are proud of our development team for those five years of hard work. We are very excited with the future of mobile phones and all the new platforms which are coming out. We hope that soon we will be able to add Windows Phone 7 to the list of our successful challenges”. For more information about Microsoft Accessibility, visit http://www.microsoft.com/enable/ For more information about Code Factory’s accessible solutions, visit http://www.codefactory.es or submit a ticket through Code Factory’s Help Desk at http://www.codefactory.cat/helpdesk/ About Code Factory Founded in 1998 and headquartered in Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, Code Factory is the global leader committed to the development of products designed to eliminate barriers to the accessibility of mobile technology for the blind and visually impaired. Today, Code Factory is the leading provider of screen readers, screen magnifiers, and Braille interfaces for the widest range of mainstream mobile devices. Among Code Factory's customers are well known organizations for the blind such as ONCE, and carriers such as AT&T, Bouygues Telecom, SFR, TIM and Vodafone. For more information, feel free to contact Code Factory S.L.: Code Factory, S.L., Rambla d'Egara 148 2-2, 08221 Terrassa (Barcelona) HelpDesk, www.codefactory.es Code Factory, S.L. - 2010 From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 02:20:08 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:20:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: Hi Jewel: I'm not the greatest with rehab either, (they really intimidate me) but I just wanted to say I think Joe was kind of out of line in assuming things about your situation and making statements like that when he didn't have the full story. I think with the situation, you did the right thing...you wouldn't want to spend money going to school and not be able to perform at your full potential and I don't think you were stopping yourself or expecting too much out of Rehab at all. It is wrong that they had to be such a pain about your stuff and because of the situation you had to drop classes then three weeks in they get you your stream. All I can think to do is to stay on their butts about it, and maybe after everything is settled write the supervisor explaining the situation and how unhappy you were with it. Keep up the good work and never stop advocating! I just wanted to let you know though that I think with the situation you were in the right to drop school for the semester! Hope that helps! Kerri On 9/1/10, Jewel S. wrote: > I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, >> I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it >> work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell >> at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of >> the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 2 02:33:03 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:33:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Out of office References: Message-ID: <2EB9E4276FE64895B339BB4AC2CD457E@Serene> I'm truely sorry for your loss. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane" To: "Bernadette Jacobs" ; "William Carrillo" ; "Wanda Travis" ; "Vincent Chaney" ; "Tim Koch" ; ; "Talbot, Nancy A" ; ; ; "RICHARD PIERCE" ; "Paul Flowers" ; "Norma Crosby" ; ; "NFB of Colorado Discussion List" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; ; "'Mike Freeman'" ; "Mike Freeman" ; "melissa Green" ; ; "Marty Rahn" ; "Lorinda Riddle" ; "List for blind crafters and artists" ; "Lisa Bonderson" ; "Linda Anderson" ; "Lauren" ; "Krafters Korner" ; "Klincewicz, Krys" ; ; "Joy Stigile" ; "Joy Stigile" ; ; "Joe Ruffalo" ; "Human Services Mailing List" ; ; "Ellis, Larry M." ; "Elaine-home" ; "Dwight Sayer" ; "Dwight Sayer" ; "Dennis, Brenda " ; "Denise Downey" ; "Darian Smith" ; "Colorado Center for the Blind mailing list" ; "Colorado Association of Blind Students List" ; "Chris Foster" ; "cheryl echevarria" ; ; "Carol Siegel" ; ; ; "Bill Carrillo" ; "Arielle Silverman" ; "Arielle Silverman" ; "Ann Cunningham" ; "Anahit LaBarre" ; <2391Group at googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Out of office > Due to the death of my Grandma, at this point, I will be out of the office > for an undetermined amount of time. > Diane > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 02:33:00 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:33:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Bulletin Additions Message-ID: Hi all, You know what to do-if your state division has an upcoming event or a recently passed event you'd like mentioned in the NABS bulletin, please send me the info by noon on Monday, Sept 6. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 03:16:58 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 23:16:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: Actually, I had to leave that early because of bus schedules and slow walking. I would leave at 6am from my apartment to get to the bus stop for the 6:30 bus. However, this bus gets to the transfer spot at 8:05. The bus that goes to Wake Tech Community College leaves the transfer point at 8:30am. It is a 20 minute ride, getting me there at 8:50am for the 9am class. Going home, my class let out at 3:15am, but the next bus doesn't come to Wake Tech until 3:50am, so I have to sit and wait. Then it gets to the transfer point at 4:30pm. The next bus leaving to go to my house gets there at that time of day at 5:30 (because the bus from Wake Tech is alway s a few minutes late to the transfer point, I never reach the 4:30 bus on time). I get on the 5:30 bus and get to my bus stop at 6pm, then it's half an hour walk home. The only other way to get to Wake Tech is taxi or car. I don't know any of the students who drive and I can't afford taxis (paratransit does not go to Wake Tech because it's actually right outside city limits). So, that's why the long days...ridiculous, I now, but it wasn't that bad...I read my textbooks on the bus to review stuff before class. ~Jewel On 9/1/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Jewel: > > I'm not the greatest with rehab either, (they really intimidate me) > but I just wanted to say I think Joe was kind of out of line in > assuming things about your situation and making statements like that > when he didn't have the full story. > > I think with the situation, you did the right thing...you wouldn't > want to spend money going to school and not be able to perform at your > full potential and I don't think you were stopping yourself or > expecting too much out of Rehab at all. > > It is wrong that they had to be such a pain about your stuff and > because of the situation you had to drop classes then three weeks in > they get you your stream. > > All I can think to do is to stay on their butts about it, and maybe > after everything is settled write the supervisor explaining the > situation and how unhappy you were with it. > > Keep up the good work and never stop advocating! > > I just wanted to let you know though that I think with the situation > you were in the right to drop school for the semester! > > Hope that helps! > > Kerri > > On 9/1/10, Jewel S. wrote: >> I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is >> over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad >> only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this >> computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, >> since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also >> completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs >> that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it >> was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the >> repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to >> go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride >> and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's >> computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school >> schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so >> staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am >> just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early >> arrival was out, too. >> >> Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I >> would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've >> dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought >> long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of >> trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating >> and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't >> possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. >> Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I >> need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to >> transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that >> school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and >> recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on >> learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and >> the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as >> needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like >> vocabulary and names). >> >> Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know >> the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to >> accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at >> full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from >> that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping >> me from being all I can be is not acceptable. >> >> ~JEwel >> >> On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> Jewel, >>> >>> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, >>> I'm >>> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class >>> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >>> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it >>> work. >>> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to >>> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you >>> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so >>> forgiving >>> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell >>> at >>> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's >>> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of >>> the >>> challenges than the abilities. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> P.S. You can hear the song here: >>> >>> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 >>> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >>> >>> Hey all, >>> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >>> already and have the process started for NLS books. >>> >>> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >>> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >>> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >>> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >>> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >>> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >>> date. >>> >>> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >>> till next semester to get going with school. >>> >>> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >>> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >>> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >>> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >>> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >>> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >>> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >>> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >>> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >>> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >>> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >>> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >>> comes in). >>> >>> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >>> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >>> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >>> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >>> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >>> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >>> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >>> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >>> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >>> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >>> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >>> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >>> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >>> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >>> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >>> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >>> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >>> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >>> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >>> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >>> >>> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >>> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 03:16:58 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 23:16:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: Actually, I had to leave that early because of bus schedules and slow walking. I would leave at 6am from my apartment to get to the bus stop for the 6:30 bus. However, this bus gets to the transfer spot at 8:05. The bus that goes to Wake Tech Community College leaves the transfer point at 8:30am. It is a 20 minute ride, getting me there at 8:50am for the 9am class. Going home, my class let out at 3:15am, but the next bus doesn't come to Wake Tech until 3:50am, so I have to sit and wait. Then it gets to the transfer point at 4:30pm. The next bus leaving to go to my house gets there at that time of day at 5:30 (because the bus from Wake Tech is alway s a few minutes late to the transfer point, I never reach the 4:30 bus on time). I get on the 5:30 bus and get to my bus stop at 6pm, then it's half an hour walk home. The only other way to get to Wake Tech is taxi or car. I don't know any of the students who drive and I can't afford taxis (paratransit does not go to Wake Tech because it's actually right outside city limits). So, that's why the long days...ridiculous, I now, but it wasn't that bad...I read my textbooks on the bus to review stuff before class. ~Jewel On 9/1/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi Jewel: > > I'm not the greatest with rehab either, (they really intimidate me) > but I just wanted to say I think Joe was kind of out of line in > assuming things about your situation and making statements like that > when he didn't have the full story. > > I think with the situation, you did the right thing...you wouldn't > want to spend money going to school and not be able to perform at your > full potential and I don't think you were stopping yourself or > expecting too much out of Rehab at all. > > It is wrong that they had to be such a pain about your stuff and > because of the situation you had to drop classes then three weeks in > they get you your stream. > > All I can think to do is to stay on their butts about it, and maybe > after everything is settled write the supervisor explaining the > situation and how unhappy you were with it. > > Keep up the good work and never stop advocating! > > I just wanted to let you know though that I think with the situation > you were in the right to drop school for the semester! > > Hope that helps! > > Kerri > > On 9/1/10, Jewel S. wrote: >> I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is >> over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad >> only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this >> computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, >> since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also >> completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs >> that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it >> was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the >> repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to >> go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride >> and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's >> computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school >> schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so >> staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am >> just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early >> arrival was out, too. >> >> Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I >> would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've >> dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought >> long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of >> trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating >> and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't >> possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. >> Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I >> need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to >> transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that >> school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and >> recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on >> learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and >> the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as >> needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like >> vocabulary and names). >> >> Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know >> the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to >> accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at >> full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from >> that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping >> me from being all I can be is not acceptable. >> >> ~JEwel >> >> On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> Jewel, >>> >>> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, >>> I'm >>> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class >>> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >>> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it >>> work. >>> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to >>> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you >>> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so >>> forgiving >>> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell >>> at >>> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's >>> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of >>> the >>> challenges than the abilities. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> P.S. You can hear the song here: >>> >>> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 >>> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >>> >>> Hey all, >>> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >>> already and have the process started for NLS books. >>> >>> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >>> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >>> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >>> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >>> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >>> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >>> date. >>> >>> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >>> till next semester to get going with school. >>> >>> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >>> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >>> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >>> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >>> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >>> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >>> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >>> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >>> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >>> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >>> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >>> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >>> comes in). >>> >>> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >>> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >>> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >>> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >>> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >>> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >>> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >>> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >>> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >>> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >>> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >>> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >>> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >>> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >>> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >>> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >>> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >>> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >>> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >>> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >>> >>> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >>> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 04:08:07 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <450410.36624.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Jewel, I would agree with Joe on this one. I do not know your situation, but my freshman year in college I did not even have a personal computer. I do not know your what your disability services has to offer, but alot of disability services have technology that you can check out. My university has braille note takers and braille displays which students can check out for certain period of time and my library has alot of assistive technology that students can use. So not having the technology although is nice, but not necessary starting classes. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Jewel S. wrote: > From: Jewel S. > Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 7:38 PM > Hey all, > I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized > for RFBD > already and have the process started for NLS books. > > DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all > of it is in > (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my > apartment), > they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. > This from > the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the > end of > semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since > it's only > 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the > final drop > date. > > So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have > to wait > till next semester to get going with school. > > In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. > In NC, the > funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks > before > school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get > shipped in in > time for school to start. This means that any student who > needs > equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class > can't > start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. > That's > ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with > classes on the > first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, > like a way of > taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a > good > accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have > the > VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and > they already > have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of > the stuff > comes in). > > Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in > their > state? My local president and state president are pushing > me to > self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for > myself (I'm > a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I > should be > demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? > I think I > need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to > allow more > time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being > allowed > into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a > 15 week > maximum, and there was  a really long waiting list for > college prep, > so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). > I'm also > hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for > intensive > college prep training to make up for the training I didn't > get when I > was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one > week of > working on one subject only), but it is usually computer > training, and > there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, > one of the > things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches > the college > prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an > intern she's > supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have > this poor > woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students > meet all > their goals by having a limited college prep placements... > > It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice > would be > gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in > finally! > > ~Jewel > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 2 04:45:35 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In Message-ID: <685348.37907.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Jewel, Let me appolagize for making assumtions about your situation without knowing what your situation really was. Now having understanding of your situation and knowing how long you are on campus I do not blame you for delaying starting classes until the equipment is available. It is a total shame that paratransit does not go to your college just it is outside the city limit, but in most cities paratransit goes anywhere city buses go. Therefore, this means that since the city bus drops you to your college so should the paratransit. Perhaps you should consider getting a group of blind individuals together and setup a meeting with the paratransit authorities and demand better services. Perhaps you can bring in organizations such as the NFB and ACB to help organize this meeting. Having problems with paratransit is not just a problem in your community, but a problem across the country and a issue which needs to be addressed. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Jewel S. wrote: > From: Jewel S. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 8:29 PM > I don't think you realize the > computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use > WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use > this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable > for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It > has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, > requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week > (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford > the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, > I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour > bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community > college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my > school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes > already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was > leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so > early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own > reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that > I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, > and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a > full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition > deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply > wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full > potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than > potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the > college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to > attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the > audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I > needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille > display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell > words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right > spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't > possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not > being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I > *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop > me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people > stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco > wrote: > > Jewel, > > > > How does that Darryl Worley song go?  Sounds like > life to me?  You know, I'm > > not downplaying the necessity of equipment to > successfully complete class > > assignments, but between a recorder and a computer > that appears to be > > working reasonably well to write posts, I think you > could have made it work. > > >From this position it sounds as though you were > looking for reasons to > > postpone class, and now you'll have several months to > contemplate why you > > should not give up too soon.  Circumstances will > not be quite so forgiving > > when your sustainability depends on a job > salary.  You may liberally yell at > > me for assuming and for pretending to understand your > situation, but it's > > frustrating to see up and coming students generate > much larger lists of the > > challenges than the abilities. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Joe > > > > P.S. You can hear the song here: > > > > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 > > > 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some > turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Jewel S. > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > > > Hey all, > > I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it > authorized for RFBD > > already and have the process started for NLS books. > > > > DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as > all of it is in > > (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly > to my apartment), > > they'll deliver it and get me set up and start > learning it. This from > > the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until > the end of > > semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, > since it's only > > 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until > the final drop > > date. > > > > So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I > have to wait > > till next semester to get going with school. > > > > In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about > this. In NC, the > > funds are not released until August 1, which is two > weeks before > > school starts...this gives no time for equipment to > get shipped in in > > time for school to start. This means that any student > who needs > > equipment to be able to work to their full ability in > class can't > > start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. > That's > > ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with > classes on the > > first week even because I didn't have even basic > tools, like a way of > > taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped > or a good > > accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I > have the > > VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, > and they already > > have my laptop (though they won't release it until all > of the stuff > > comes in). > > > > Does anyone else have trouble with late funding > release in their > > state? My local president and state president are > pushing me to > > self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up > for myself (I'm > > a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I > should be > > demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing > here? I think I > > need to advocate for the fund release date to be > changed to allow more > > time, and I know I need to advocate for more students > being allowed > > into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they > have a 15 week > > maximum, and there was  a really long waiting > list for college prep, > > so I was unable to get into the college prep class at > all). I'm also > > hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab > for intensive > > college prep training to make up for the training I > didn't get when I > > was there full-time. They do allow intensive training > (one week of > > working on one subject only), but it is usually > computer training, and > > there is only one teacher there who can teach a > scanner, one of the > > things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who > teaches the college > > prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an > intern she's > > supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they > have this poor > > woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the > students meet all > > their goals by having a limited college prep > placements... > > > > It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or > advice would be > > gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming > in finally! > > > > ~Jewel > > > > -- > > ~Jewel > > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account > > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 05:41:33 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 01:41:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: I would agree with you in most cases, really. But in this particular case, it seems to me like she took the right decision. Posting things like this without knowing situations well enough is really not a good idea... Just my opinion... IC On Sep 1, 2010, at 8:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, I'm > not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class > assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be > working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it work. >> From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to > postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you > should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so forgiving > when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell at > me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's > frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of the > challenges than the abilities. > > Respectfully, > > Joe > > P.S. You can hear the song here: > > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:105008242:s315 > 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > Hey all, > I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD > already and have the process started for NLS books. > > DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in > (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), > they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from > the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of > semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only > 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop > date. > > So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait > till next semester to get going with school. > > In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the > funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before > school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in > time for school to start. This means that any student who needs > equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't > start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's > ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the > first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of > taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good > accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the > VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already > have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff > comes in). > > Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their > state? My local president and state president are pushing me to > self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm > a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be > demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I > need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more > time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed > into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week > maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, > so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also > hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive > college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I > was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of > working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and > there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the > things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college > prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's > supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor > woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all > their goals by having a limited college prep placements... > > It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be > gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! > > ~Jewel > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 11:55:22 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 07:55:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> Message-ID: <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Jewel, I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. Several suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since we spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability of equipment at your school? I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of my freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of my dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is because after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took better notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no one likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself slating notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to not show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one day? People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have work to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of condescension but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary enrollment. Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. First, I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work you can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I think it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part of your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take you longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you independently made. I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille notetakers and screen readers were conceived. Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's an editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are there perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging transportation for the spring term? Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce some of your textbooks? The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. You can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me straight. Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, up! Sincerely, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early arrival was out, too. Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like vocabulary and names). Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping me from being all I can be is not acceptable. ~JEwel On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? You know, I'm > not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully complete class > assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be > working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could have made it work. > >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for reasons to > postpone class, and now you'll have several months to contemplate why you > should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite so forgiving > when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may liberally yell at > me for assuming and for pretending to understand your situation, but it's > frustrating to see up and coming students generate much larger lists of the > challenges than the abilities. > > Respectfully, > > Joe > > P.S. You can hear the song here: > > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 5008242:s315 > 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > Hey all, > I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD > already and have the process started for NLS books. > > DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in > (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), > they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from > the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of > semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only > 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop > date. > > So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait > till next semester to get going with school. > > In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the > funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before > school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in > time for school to start. This means that any student who needs > equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't > start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's > ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the > first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of > taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good > accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the > VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already > have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff > comes in). > > Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their > state? My local president and state president are pushing me to > self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm > a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be > demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I > need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more > time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed > into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week > maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, > so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also > hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive > college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I > was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of > working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and > there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the > things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college > prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's > supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor > woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all > their goals by having a limited college prep placements... > > It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be > gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! > > ~Jewel > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt ykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 15:26:11 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:26:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: The bus situation is actually a bit more complicated than that. Wake Tech pays for the bus to go to their campus. It is not a city-run bus. Because it is not a city-run bus that goes there, paratransit does not because no city buses go there. Wake Tech is paying for the bus specifically because no other bus goes there, to provide transportation to their main campus to all the people who normally wouldn't be able to get there. I also checked into getting something on loan temperoarily. DSB did not have any notetakers or laptops to lend, nor did the college's DSS office. I looked other places, but had no luck whatsoever finding one I could borrow or even rent (all the ones for rent were too expensive for me, and DSB wasn't interested in paying for it... It is a big complicated mess, but as was said before "So this is life." I know there is going to be harder things to deal with, but in this case, I feel with the information I had, I made the right decision, but I wish I had known then what I know now! In considering dropping, I talked to my vocational rehab conunselor, the DSS office at the college, our local NFB chapter's president, my boyfriend (who should always have a say in these things, of course), and a few students I knew who also had disability accommodations. I just gotta go from here. Hindsight is 20/20 and I need to learn from life. Is there anything I can do about the fund release being so late? Because it is so late, rarely do people get their equipment in time for school to start. This can't be right; they are accommodations because without them, I and other students like me wouldn't be on an even playing ground, so they expect us to start the first semester without an even playing ground?? Well, if I'm going to be able to meet up with my boyfriend at 1pm, I better leave now, so I'm out for now! ~Jewel On 9/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. Several > suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder > if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the > agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes > forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help > people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to > write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining > accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since we > spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability of > equipment at your school? > > I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of my > freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of my > dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is because > after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my > grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. > Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my > parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took better > notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main > points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no one > likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to > realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, > there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. > > My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in > school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology > breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself slating > notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop > your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to not > show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one day? > People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have work > to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is > something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of condescension > but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced > rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary enrollment. > > Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. First, > I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have > had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the > case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work you > can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I think > it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down > times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part of > your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take you > longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you > independently made. > > I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly > enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A > lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no > substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot > more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the > precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop > something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, > but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille > notetakers and screen readers were conceived. > > Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's an > editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully > accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. > > Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are there > perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of > your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I > might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have > had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. > > Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not > mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can > you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging > transportation for the spring term? > > Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce some > of your textbooks? > > The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. You > can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. > There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I > did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up > with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in > every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a > healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, > just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me > straight. > > Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope > you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, up! > > Sincerely, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? > You know, I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully > complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could > have made it work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for > reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to > contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite > so forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may > liberally yell at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your > situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much > larger lists of the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 > 5008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From jess28 at samobile.net Thu Sep 2 16:40:51 2010 From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jess sA Mobile) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 10:40:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: <005c01cb4abd$9b578670$d2069350$@net> Jewel, Keep in mind too. That from my understanding the State of New Jersey also has a massive amount of debt and if state also gives the Commission some money too then they may not be getting the money from the state. Jessica -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:26 AM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In The bus situation is actually a bit more complicated than that. Wake Tech pays for the bus to go to their campus. It is not a city-run bus. Because it is not a city-run bus that goes there, paratransit does not because no city buses go there. Wake Tech is paying for the bus specifically because no other bus goes there, to provide transportation to their main campus to all the people who normally wouldn't be able to get there. I also checked into getting something on loan temperoarily. DSB did not have any notetakers or laptops to lend, nor did the college's DSS office. I looked other places, but had no luck whatsoever finding one I could borrow or even rent (all the ones for rent were too expensive for me, and DSB wasn't interested in paying for it... It is a big complicated mess, but as was said before "So this is life." I know there is going to be harder things to deal with, but in this case, I feel with the information I had, I made the right decision, but I wish I had known then what I know now! In considering dropping, I talked to my vocational rehab conunselor, the DSS office at the college, our local NFB chapter's president, my boyfriend (who should always have a say in these things, of course), and a few students I knew who also had disability accommodations. I just gotta go from here. Hindsight is 20/20 and I need to learn from life. Is there anything I can do about the fund release being so late? Because it is so late, rarely do people get their equipment in time for school to start. This can't be right; they are accommodations because without them, I and other students like me wouldn't be on an even playing ground, so they expect us to start the first semester without an even playing ground?? Well, if I'm going to be able to meet up with my boyfriend at 1pm, I better leave now, so I'm out for now! ~Jewel On 9/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. Several > suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder > if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the > agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes > forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help > people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to > write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining > accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since we > spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability of > equipment at your school? > > I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of my > freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of my > dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is because > after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my > grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. > Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my > parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took better > notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main > points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no one > likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to > realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, > there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. > > My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in > school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology > breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself slating > notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop > your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to not > show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one day? > People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have work > to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is > something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of condescension > but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced > rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary enrollment. > > Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. First, > I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have > had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the > case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work you > can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I think > it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down > times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part of > your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take you > longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you > independently made. > > I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly > enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A > lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no > substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot > more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the > precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop > something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, > but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille > notetakers and screen readers were conceived. > > Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's an > editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully > accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. > > Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are there > perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of > your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I > might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have > had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. > > Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not > mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can > you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging > transportation for the spring term? > > Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce some > of your textbooks? > > The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. You > can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. > There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I > did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up > with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in > every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a > healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, > just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me > straight. > > Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope > you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, up! > > Sincerely, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? > You know, I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully > complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could > have made it work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for > reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to > contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite > so forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may > liberally yell at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your > situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much > larger lists of the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 > 5008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai l.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jess28%40samobile.ne t From gera1027 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 16:34:25 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:34:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus><39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: <00ac01cb4abc$b6f110f0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Why not start checking in and starting the buracracy of funding equipment since the spring before college starts? i say this because when I started university I began checking with the teachers I'd have since march of that year and they gave me the name of textbooks so that I could send them off to mexico City to start having them transcribed to Braille? or if a book would be too expensive to transcribe so my parents could start tape recording them over the spring and summer. Always doesn't hurt to be prepared. Gerardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In The bus situation is actually a bit more complicated than that. Wake Tech pays for the bus to go to their campus. It is not a city-run bus. Because it is not a city-run bus that goes there, paratransit does not because no city buses go there. Wake Tech is paying for the bus specifically because no other bus goes there, to provide transportation to their main campus to all the people who normally wouldn't be able to get there. I also checked into getting something on loan temperoarily. DSB did not have any notetakers or laptops to lend, nor did the college's DSS office. I looked other places, but had no luck whatsoever finding one I could borrow or even rent (all the ones for rent were too expensive for me, and DSB wasn't interested in paying for it... It is a big complicated mess, but as was said before "So this is life." I know there is going to be harder things to deal with, but in this case, I feel with the information I had, I made the right decision, but I wish I had known then what I know now! In considering dropping, I talked to my vocational rehab conunselor, the DSS office at the college, our local NFB chapter's president, my boyfriend (who should always have a say in these things, of course), and a few students I knew who also had disability accommodations. I just gotta go from here. Hindsight is 20/20 and I need to learn from life. Is there anything I can do about the fund release being so late? Because it is so late, rarely do people get their equipment in time for school to start. This can't be right; they are accommodations because without them, I and other students like me wouldn't be on an even playing ground, so they expect us to start the first semester without an even playing ground?? Well, if I'm going to be able to meet up with my boyfriend at 1pm, I better leave now, so I'm out for now! ~Jewel On 9/2/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Jewel, > > I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. > Several > suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder > if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the > agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes > forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help > people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to > write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining > accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since > we > spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability > of > equipment at your school? > > I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of > my > freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of > my > dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is > because > after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my > grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. > Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my > parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took > better > notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main > points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no > one > likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to > realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, > there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. > > My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in > school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology > breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself > slating > notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop > your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to > not > show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one > day? > People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have > work > to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is > something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of > condescension > but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced > rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary > enrollment. > > Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. > First, > I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have > had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the > case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work > you > can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I > think > it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down > times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part > of > your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take > you > longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you > independently made. > > I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly > enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A > lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no > substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot > more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the > precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop > something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, > but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille > notetakers and screen readers were conceived. > > Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's > an > editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully > accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. > > Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are > there > perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of > your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I > might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have > had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. > > Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not > mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can > you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging > transportation for the spring term? > > Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce > some > of your textbooks? > > The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. > You > can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. > There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I > did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up > with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in > every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a > healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, > just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me > straight. > > Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope > you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, > up! > > Sincerely, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? > You know, I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully > complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could > have made it work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for > reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to > contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite > so forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may > liberally yell at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your > situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much > larger lists of the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 > 5008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 16:41:57 2010 From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:41:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] For Braille Note Users: Translating Braille note Documents? Message-ID: I am needing some help. I have written a document on my braille note, and want to translate it into a regular text file. The document is written in computer braille. I have tried doing this via the translate file option, first translating regularly from braille to text. This apparently did not work, becuase the braille note file is originally .kwb, and the text document, .kwt, which neither are read by the computer. . I then did something where I translated from braille to text, then exporting the file, which did manage to change the document in to .txt, but gave me a blank file, in other words, the actual text still does not read on the computer. Does anyone know of a way I can go about doing this, if there is one? Any help would be greatly appreciated. From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Sep 2 17:11:21 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:11:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For Braille Note Users: Translating Braille note Documents? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just do that save command and choose "asci-text" from the menu. Don't choose braille text, because it won't work. Hope that helps. Jorge On Sep 2, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Ashley wrote: > I am needing some help. I have written a document on my braille note, > and want to translate it into a regular text file. The document is > written in computer braille. I have tried doing this via the translate > file option, first translating regularly from braille to text. This > apparently did not work, becuase the braille note file is originally > .kwb, and the text document, .kwt, which neither are read by the > computer. . I then did something where I translated from braille to > text, then exporting the file, which did manage to change the document > in to .txt, but gave me a blank file, in other words, the actual text > still does not read on the computer. Does anyone know of a way I can > go about doing this, if there is one? Any help would be greatly > appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 2 17:40:46 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 13:40:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For Braille Note Users: Translating Braille note Documents? References: Message-ID: You have to copy the text from your Braille file into a Text or Microsoft Word document that you create in the BN. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: [nabs-l] For Braille Note Users: Translating Braille note Documents? >I am needing some help. I have written a document on my braille note, > and want to translate it into a regular text file. The document is > written in computer braille. I have tried doing this via the translate > file option, first translating regularly from braille to text. This > apparently did not work, becuase the braille note file is originally > .kwb, and the text document, .kwt, which neither are read by the > computer. . I then did something where I translated from braille to > text, then exporting the file, which did manage to change the document > in to .txt, but gave me a blank file, in other words, the actual text > still does not read on the computer. Does anyone know of a way I can > go about doing this, if there is one? Any help would be greatly > appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 2 17:51:52 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 13:51:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe: With respect, although I agree with your point that people have to learn how to deal with difficult times in their lives, I think being in the working world is easier than being a student, as far as blindness services go. Once you have a steady career and assuming your equipment doesn't totally break, you won't have to have the Commission for the Blind involved. At least in NJ, once the Commission buys you equipment, it's yours forever. If you change jobs, you can use the equipment at your new job. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that Juel's Commission issue added to her mobility impairment seemed like too much pressure for her to handle at this time of her life. I know it was her decision not to use a wheelchair, but what's done is done. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > Jewel, > > I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. > Several > suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder > if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the > agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes > forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help > people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to > write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining > accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since > we > spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability > of > equipment at your school? > > I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of > my > freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of > my > dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is > because > after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my > grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. > Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my > parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took > better > notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main > points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no > one > likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to > realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, > there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. > > My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in > school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology > breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself > slating > notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop > your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to > not > show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one > day? > People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have > work > to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is > something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of > condescension > but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced > rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary > enrollment. > > Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. > First, > I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have > had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the > case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work > you > can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I > think > it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down > times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part > of > your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take > you > longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you > independently made. > > I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly > enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A > lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no > substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot > more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the > precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop > something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, > but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille > notetakers and screen readers were conceived. > > Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's > an > editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully > accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. > > Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are > there > perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of > your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I > might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have > had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. > > Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not > mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can > you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging > transportation for the spring term? > > Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce > some > of your textbooks? > > The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. > You > can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. > There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I > did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up > with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in > every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a > healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, > just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me > straight. > > Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope > you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, > up! > > Sincerely, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is > over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad > only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this > computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, > since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also > completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs > that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it > was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the > repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to > go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride > and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's > computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school > schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so > staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am > just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early > arrival was out, too. > > Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I > would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've > dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought > long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of > trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating > and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't > possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. > Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I > need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to > transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that > school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and > recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on > learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and > the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as > needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like > vocabulary and names). > > Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know > the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to > accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at > full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from > that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping > me from being all I can be is not acceptable. > > ~JEwel > > On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Jewel, >> >> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? > You know, I'm >> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully > complete class >> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could > have made it work. >> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for > reasons to >> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to > contemplate why you >> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite > so forgiving >> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may > liberally yell at >> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your > situation, but it's >> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much > larger lists of the >> challenges than the abilities. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Joe >> >> P.S. You can hear the song here: >> >> > http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 > 5008242:s315 >> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> Hey all, >> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >> already and have the process started for NLS books. >> >> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >> date. >> >> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >> till next semester to get going with school. >> >> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >> comes in). >> >> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >> >> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From kaybaycar at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 18:33:42 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 13:33:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: Jewel. For what it's worth, I think you made the right decision. I have very bad luck with technology. I had 2 computers become infected this Summer, which meant that I spent my first week back to school without a computer. I used my braille note to take notes, but if teachers sent me anything, I couldn't get it. I couldn't access my email and my RFB&D books. I felt so helpless. What sucked even more was that I had to pull the blind card to get my technology fixed when it was because I just couldn't use any old computer. What I am trying to say is that not having technology is going to happen at one point or another. I've just resigned myself to that unfortunate fact, and if I hadn't had my braille note to take notes I don't know what I would have done. It's horrible, but it seems that we depend on technology so much. I am an A student, but my work has been suffering because of that one week without my computer. I am still behind in one of my classes because of it. You have made the bright decision that you don't want that to happen. It may be the perfectionist in me, but I don't want to take a class unless I believe I can get an A in that class, and if needing the technology helps that happen, well I need that technology in order to take the class. Hope this ramble made any sense. On 9/2/10, Serena wrote: > Joe: > > With respect, although I agree with your point that people have to learn how > to deal with difficult times in their lives, I think being in the working > world is easier than being a student, as far as blindness services go. Once > you have a steady career and assuming your equipment doesn't totally break, > you won't have to have the Commission for the Blind involved. At least in > NJ, once the Commission buys you equipment, it's yours forever. If you > change jobs, you can use the equipment at your new job. I'm not sure, but > I'm guessing that Juel's Commission issue added to her mobility impairment > seemed like too much pressure for her to handle at this time of her life. I > know it was her decision not to use a wheelchair, but what's done is done. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:55 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > >> Jewel, >> >> I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. >> Several >> suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder >> if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the >> agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes >> forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help >> people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to >> write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining >> accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since >> we >> spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability >> of >> equipment at your school? >> >> I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of >> my >> freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of >> my >> dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is >> because >> after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my >> grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. >> Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my >> parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took >> better >> notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main >> points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no >> one >> likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to >> realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, >> there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. >> >> My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in >> school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology >> breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself >> slating >> notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop >> your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to >> not >> show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one >> day? >> People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have >> work >> to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is >> something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of >> condescension >> but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced >> rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary >> enrollment. >> >> Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. >> First, >> I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have >> had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the >> case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work >> you >> can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I >> think >> it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down >> times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part >> of >> your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take >> you >> longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you >> independently made. >> >> I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly >> enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A >> lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no >> substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot >> more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the >> precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop >> something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, >> but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille >> notetakers and screen readers were conceived. >> >> Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's >> an >> editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully >> accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. >> >> Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are >> there >> perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of >> your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I >> might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have >> had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. >> >> Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not >> mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can >> you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging >> transportation for the spring term? >> >> Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce >> some >> of your textbooks? >> >> The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. >> You >> can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. >> There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I >> did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up >> with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in >> every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a >> healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, >> just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me >> straight. >> >> Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope >> you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, >> up! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM >> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is >> over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad >> only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this >> computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, >> since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also >> completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs >> that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it >> was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the >> repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to >> go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride >> and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's >> computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school >> schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so >> staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am >> just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early >> arrival was out, too. >> >> Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I >> would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've >> dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought >> long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of >> trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating >> and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't >> possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. >> Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I >> need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to >> transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that >> school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and >> recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on >> learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and >> the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as >> needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like >> vocabulary and names). >> >> Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know >> the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to >> accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at >> full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from >> that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping >> me from being all I can be is not acceptable. >> >> ~JEwel >> >> On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> Jewel, >>> >>> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? >> You know, I'm >>> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully >> complete class >>> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >>> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could >> have made it work. >>> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for >> reasons to >>> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to >> contemplate why you >>> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite >> so forgiving >>> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may >> liberally yell at >>> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your >> situation, but it's >>> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much >> larger lists of the >>> challenges than the abilities. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> P.S. You can hear the song here: >>> >>> >> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 >> 5008242:s315 >>> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >>> >>> Hey all, >>> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >>> already and have the process started for NLS books. >>> >>> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >>> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >>> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >>> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >>> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >>> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >>> date. >>> >>> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >>> till next semester to get going with school. >>> >>> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >>> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >>> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >>> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >>> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >>> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >>> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >>> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >>> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >>> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >>> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >>> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >>> comes in). >>> >>> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >>> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >>> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >>> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >>> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >>> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >>> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >>> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >>> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >>> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >>> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >>> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >>> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >>> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >>> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >>> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >>> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >>> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >>> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >>> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >>> >>> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >>> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 18:53:26 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:53:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus> <39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: Hi, Jewel, I'm glad your equipment finally arrived, and I can totally understand your frustration with having to postpone your college classes. I agree you did the right thing by dropping your classes this semester though given the information you had at the time, as you were definitely at a huge disadvantage with the lack of equipment. You are overcoming a lot of obstacles to attend college, including transportation and your mobility issues, and I just want to offer you encouragement as you move forward. As others suggest, use this semester to learn all your new technology well, check out on-line courses, and work with your instructors for the spring term to make sure everything is ready to go by January. You seem to be a very resourceful person and I know you will not give up easily. And Joe, I have to respectfully disagree with a lot of what you said. Most college students utilize technology on a daily basis for their learning and would be hard pressed if all computing tools are ever taken away from them. Because assistive technology is much more expensive than mainstream devices, the state rehab is responsible for funding the purchases, and just because they are often ridiculously delayed doesn't mean that blind students shouldn't expect equipment that allows them to efficiently access information, take notes, etc. Yes, blind students did once function with only the slate and stylus and a tape recorder, but times have changed and technology is now expected to be part of everyone's toolkit. While those few sighted students without their own computers can make use of computers in the library or computer lab, blind students can not do this as readily; many schools, mine for one, do not have equipment in the DSS office as they expect students to recieve them through voc rehab. Furthermore, As Serena said, access in higher education is often more challenging than in the workplace, not to mention that dealing with temporary break-downs of some of your technology is very different from not having any of your equipment at all for the entire semester. I agree with your general philosophy of not giving up, and I'm very impressed with you for making through your first semester of freshman year without technology. However, everyone's situations and abilities are different, and blind students are entitled to a level playing field with their sighted peers and should not be labeled as giving up too easily when they are not provided with the most basic learning tools. Just my thoughts! Katie On 9/2/10, Serena wrote: > Joe: > > With respect, although I agree with your point that people have to learn how > to deal with difficult times in their lives, I think being in the working > world is easier than being a student, as far as blindness services go. Once > you have a steady career and assuming your equipment doesn't totally break, > you won't have to have the Commission for the Blind involved. At least in > NJ, once the Commission buys you equipment, it's yours forever. If you > change jobs, you can use the equipment at your new job. I'm not sure, but > I'm guessing that Juel's Commission issue added to her mobility impairment > seemed like too much pressure for her to handle at this time of her life. I > know it was her decision not to use a wheelchair, but what's done is done. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:55 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > > >> Jewel, >> >> I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. >> Several >> suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I wonder >> if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the >> agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but sometimes >> forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to help >> people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to >> write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining >> accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? Since >> we >> spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability >> of >> equipment at your school? >> >> I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November of >> my >> freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out of >> my >> dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is >> because >> after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my >> grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. >> Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my >> parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took >> better >> notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main >> points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no >> one >> likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us to >> realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than us, >> there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. >> >> My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success in >> school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. Technology >> breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself >> slating >> notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to drop >> your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to >> not >> show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one >> day? >> People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have >> work >> to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is >> something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of >> condescension >> but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced >> rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary >> enrollment. >> >> Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. >> First, >> I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would have >> had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the >> case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work >> you >> can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I >> think >> it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down >> times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, part >> of >> your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take >> you >> longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you >> independently made. >> >> I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I thoroughly >> enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. A >> lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no >> substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a lot >> more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the >> precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop >> something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not perfect, >> but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille >> notetakers and screen readers were conceived. >> >> Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. It's >> an >> editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully >> accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. >> >> Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are >> there >> perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two of >> your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. I >> might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would have >> had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. >> >> Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not >> mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. Can >> you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging >> transportation for the spring term? >> >> Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce >> some >> of your textbooks? >> >> The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. >> You >> can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. >> There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate I >> did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up >> with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in >> every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you a >> healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of malice, >> just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me >> straight. >> >> Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I hope >> you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, >> up! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM >> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is >> over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad >> only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this >> computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, >> since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also >> completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs >> that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it >> was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the >> repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to >> go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride >> and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's >> computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school >> schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so >> staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am >> just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early >> arrival was out, too. >> >> Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I >> would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've >> dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought >> long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of >> trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating >> and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't >> possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. >> Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I >> need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to >> transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that >> school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and >> recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on >> learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and >> the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as >> needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like >> vocabulary and names). >> >> Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know >> the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to >> accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at >> full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from >> that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping >> me from being all I can be is not acceptable. >> >> ~JEwel >> >> On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> Jewel, >>> >>> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? >> You know, I'm >>> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully >> complete class >>> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >>> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could >> have made it work. >>> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for >> reasons to >>> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to >> contemplate why you >>> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite >> so forgiving >>> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may >> liberally yell at >>> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your >> situation, but it's >>> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much >> larger lists of the >>> challenges than the abilities. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> P.S. You can hear the song here: >>> >>> >> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 >> 5008242:s315 >>> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >>> >>> Hey all, >>> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >>> already and have the process started for NLS books. >>> >>> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >>> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >>> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >>> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >>> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >>> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >>> date. >>> >>> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >>> till next semester to get going with school. >>> >>> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >>> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >>> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >>> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >>> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >>> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >>> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >>> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >>> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >>> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >>> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >>> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >>> comes in). >>> >>> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >>> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >>> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >>> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >>> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >>> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >>> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >>> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >>> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >>> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >>> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >>> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >>> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >>> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >>> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >>> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >>> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >>> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >>> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >>> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >>> >>> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >>> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com Thu Sep 2 19:29:47 2010 From: Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com (Rachel Becker) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 15:29:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab Message-ID: Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to use the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? Rachel From hope.paulos at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 19:36:02 2010 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 15:36:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab References: Message-ID: <9317CA42052C4F0287A39331F400C9C6@Espy> Either that or try to use another screen reader like system access to go, which is free and doesn't need to be installed on any particular computer. When the computer is up and running, in hit ctrl+r and the following address: http://www.satogo.com Hope this helps. Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Becker" To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] language lab > Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to > listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took > French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to > use > the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these > situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? > Rachel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 20:19:56 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 15:19:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab References: <9317CA42052C4F0287A39331F400C9C6@Espy> Message-ID: <017d01cb4adc$3855aab0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Aside from installing Satogo, how about carrhying a USB on which you can have a portable NVDA, just stick the USB into the computer and run NVDA from the USB drive? Gerardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab Either that or try to use another screen reader like system access to go, which is free and doesn't need to be installed on any particular computer. When the computer is up and running, in hit ctrl+r and the following address: http://www.satogo.com Hope this helps. Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Becker" To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] language lab > Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to > listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took > French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to > use > the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these > situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? > Rachel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 2 20:37:57 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:37:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab References: Message-ID: <34449255352F4EB79E061B57A6BD7D05@Serene> I used a reader who had previously taken Italian. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Becker" To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] language lab > Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to > listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took > French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to > use > the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these > situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? > Rachel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From kramc11 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 20:40:06 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:40:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In In-Reply-To: References: <6E43A6D3530F4BF187E80D165DBCF577@Rufus><39ACBCE1EAFC45DD91588B332A49E3EA@Rufus> Message-ID: I know this is not a possibility for all people, but I keep a 2nd laptop just incase my primary laptop brakes. I was able to procure an old windows 2000 laptop and then I put a copy of XP home on it, and increased its ram. It is only a Pentium 3, but it is just about as fast as the net books available, and, most importantly free. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In > Jewel. For what it's worth, I think you made the right decision. > > I have very bad luck with technology. I had 2 computers become > infected this Summer, which meant that I spent my first week back to > school without a computer. I used my braille note to take notes, but > if teachers sent me anything, I couldn't get it. I couldn't access my > email and my RFB&D books. I felt so helpless. What sucked even more > was that I had to pull the blind card to get my technology fixed when > it was because I just couldn't use any old computer. > > What I am trying to say is that not having technology is going to > happen at one point or another. I've just resigned myself to that > unfortunate fact, and if I hadn't had my braille note to take notes I > don't know what I would have done. It's horrible, but it seems that > we depend on technology so much. I am an A student, but my work has > been suffering because of that one week without my computer. I am > still behind in one of my classes because of it. You have made the > bright decision that you don't want that to happen. It may be the > perfectionist in me, but I don't want to take a class unless I believe > I can get an A in that class, and if needing the technology helps that > happen, well I need that technology in order to take the class. > > Hope this ramble made any sense. > > On 9/2/10, Serena wrote: >> Joe: >> >> With respect, although I agree with your point that people have to learn >> how >> to deal with difficult times in their lives, I think being in the working >> world is easier than being a student, as far as blindness services go. >> Once >> you have a steady career and assuming your equipment doesn't totally >> break, >> you won't have to have the Commission for the Blind involved. At least >> in >> NJ, once the Commission buys you equipment, it's yours forever. If you >> change jobs, you can use the equipment at your new job. I'm not sure, >> but >> I'm guessing that Juel's Commission issue added to her mobility >> impairment >> seemed like too much pressure for her to handle at this time of her life. >> I >> know it was her decision not to use a wheelchair, but what's done is >> done. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:55 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >> >> >>> Jewel, >>> >>> I apologize, not for what I wrote but for still not understanding. >>> Several >>> suggestions were made for you on how to locate loaner equipment. I >>> wonder >>> if you contacted your NFB affiliate to raise hell on your behalf at the >>> agency. I think it easy to utilize the organization's lists but >>> sometimes >>> forget that there really is a machinery in place behind the lists to >>> help >>> people in these types of everyday situations. I specifically offered to >>> write or call on behalf of students experiencing difficulty in obtaining >>> accommodations. Did you get in touch with your local Lions' Club? >>> Since >>> we >>> spoke of accommodations on campus, did you fully assess the availability >>> of >>> equipment at your school? >>> >>> I am one individual who did not receive their equipment until November >>> of >>> my >>> freshman year. Actually, the boxes arrived just as I was checking out >>> of >>> my >>> dorm to go home for Thanksgiving. The only reason things sped up is >>> because >>> after speaking to my counselor's supervisor I threatened to take my >>> grievance to the top of the agency, never mind regional office nonsense. >>> Until that point I was using an old desktop I'd scrounged up from my >>> parents' house and a slate and stylus. Looking back, I probably took >>> better >>> notes on the slate because I was concentrating on only taking down main >>> points. But, fine, my abilities are not the abilities of others, and no >>> one >>> likes being compared to other people. Yet, I think it important for us >>> to >>> realize that just as someone is out there doing something better than >>> us, >>> there is also someone who is having it a lot worse. >>> >>> My fear with your situation is that you feel the answer to your success >>> in >>> school relies on the availability of a long list of equipment. >>> Technology >>> breaks down. My freshman year was not the first time I found myself >>> slating >>> notes, and so when one of your devices breaks down, are you going to >>> drop >>> your classes midway? Later in your professional career are you going to >>> not >>> show up to work if your Braille device malfunctions and breaks down one >>> day? >>> People have offered various ways to make the equipment that you do have >>> work >>> to your advantage. If you feel genuinely at a loss, perhaps training is >>> something worth considering. I don't say this in a spirit of >>> condescension >>> but rather as a feasible suggestion. There is a lot wrong with forced >>> rehabilitation training but nothing at all wrong with voluntary >>> enrollment. >>> >>> Your schedule was a tough one but is not altogether an abnormal one. >>> First, >>> I somehow doubt your schedule was the same every day since you would >>> have >>> had to have been taking a ridiculous number of hours for this to be the >>> case. Since you've made it pretty clear that there is only so much work >>> you >>> can handle, I do not think an exceptionally full load was the case. I >>> think >>> it possible for you to have caught up on transcribing notes during down >>> times, whether at home or on campus at a library somewhere. Second, >>> part >>> of >>> your extended schedule is owed to your mobility. It may very well take >>> you >>> longer to walk about, but not using a wheelchair is a choice you >>> independently made. >>> >>> I promise I am not nearly as mean as I may be coming across. I >>> thoroughly >>> enjoy reading your posts and think you generally have excellent ideas. >>> A >>> lot can be gleaned from a person's writing style, and although it is no >>> substitute to knowing a person, I feel it is enough to sense you are a >>> lot >>> more resourceful than you are giving yourself credit. I do not like the >>> precedent this sets for younger students who may think it okay to stop >>> something just because the situation is not perfect. Life is not >>> perfect, >>> but many people did it, and did it well, long before the idea of Braille >>> notetakers and screen readers were conceived. >>> >>> Now, moving forward, let me first suggest you consider using Jarte. >>> It's >>> an >>> editor that you might think of as WordPad on steroids and is fully >>> accessible with screen readers. You can find it at Jarte.com. >>> >>> Next, are there any online courses you can consider enrolling in? Are >>> there >>> perhaps any Hadley courses you can take and gain credit for one or two >>> of >>> your college credits? Time's too valuable to let a semester slide by. >>> I >>> might also consider maintaining contact with the professors you would >>> have >>> had this semester to see about pre-arranging things for the next round. >>> >>> Third, you may not be enrolled in class this semester, but this does not >>> mean you can't start to become active with some of the campus groups. >>> Can >>> you contact some volunteer organizations about potentially arranging >>> transportation for the spring term? >>> >>> Finally, what can your disability office start doing to help reproduce >>> some >>> of your textbooks? >>> >>> The overriding point here is not to let challenges get the best of you. >>> You >>> can do a killer job at whatever you commit yourself to accomplishing. >>> There's nothing wrong with venting, and I'm sure during my undergraduate >>> I >>> did plenty of it. There's also nothing wrong with building ourselves up >>> with the support of other empathetic individuals, but just know that in >>> every supportive group there is at least one person willing to give you >>> a >>> healthy kick in the ass to get you moving again. It's not out of >>> malice, >>> just a little tough love. Ask Mike Freeman how many times he's set me >>> straight. >>> >>> Anyway, there I go writing a damn novella again. Whatever you do, I >>> hope >>> you try your hardest, and whatever you do in the future, do, not, give, >>> up! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jewel S. [mailto:herekittykat2 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:30 PM >>> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >>> >>> I don't think you realize the computer I'm using...this computer is >>> over ten years old, doesn't have Microsoft Office (so I use WordPad >>> only), and has NVDA only, whic can be a mjaor pain. I use this >>> computer for internet use only, and it's not even reliable for that, >>> since it can randomly freeze up and require a reboot. It has also >>> completely crashed several times in the last year, requiring repairs >>> that left me without a computer for a minimum of a week (and once, it >>> was out of commission for a month, since I couldn't afford the >>> repairs). Other than what little I can do on this computer, I have to >>> go to the public library (which takes minimum half an hour bus ride >>> and quite a bit of walking to get to) or to the community college's >>> computer lab (which takes me two hours to get to). With my school >>> schedule, I was getting home at 6:30pm after classes already, so >>> staying after school really wasn't an option, and I was leaving at 6am >>> just to get to school 10 minutes before class started, so early >>> arrival was out, too. >>> >>> Don't assume that I wanted to postpone classes for my own reasons. I >>> would do anything to be in classes right now, but now that I've >>> dropped, I can't get back in. I *want* to be in classes, and I thought >>> long and hard before dropping from classes, giving it a full week of >>> trial without equipment. Between my physical condition deteriorating >>> and my limited ability to participate in classes, it simply wasn't >>> possible for me to stay in classes and work at my full potential. >>> Sure, I could have stayed in and worked at less than potential, but I >>> need to keep up a great GPA in order to get into the college I want to >>> transfer to and get the grants and scholarships I need to attend that >>> school. Because I am a visual and tactile learner, the audio books and >>> recorded classes were difficult for me to work with. I needed hands-on >>> learning, which I will get with the refresthable Braille display and >>> the Victor Stream (which is audio, but allows me to spell words as >>> needed, so I can write things down knowing the right spelling, like >>> vocabulary and names). >>> >>> Please don't make assumtions like this when you can't possibly know >>> the full story. You are putting the blame on me for not being able to >>> accept my fate and work at less than full potential. I *will* work at >>> full potential, and I will not allow other people to stop me from >>> that. Me stopping me is a different story, but other people stopping >>> me from being all I can be is not acceptable. >>> >>> ~JEwel >>> >>> On 9/1/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>> Jewel, >>>> >>>> How does that Darryl Worley song go? Sounds like life to me? >>> You know, I'm >>>> not downplaying the necessity of equipment to successfully >>> complete class >>>> assignments, but between a recorder and a computer that appears to be >>>> working reasonably well to write posts, I think you could >>> have made it work. >>>> >From this position it sounds as though you were looking for >>> reasons to >>>> postpone class, and now you'll have several months to >>> contemplate why you >>>> should not give up too soon. Circumstances will not be quite >>> so forgiving >>>> when your sustainability depends on a job salary. You may >>> liberally yell at >>>> me for assuming and for pretending to understand your >>> situation, but it's >>>> frustrating to see up and coming students generate much >>> larger lists of the >>>> challenges than the abilities. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> P.S. You can hear the song here: >>>> >>>> >>> http://s0.ilike.com/play#Darryl+Worley:Sounds+Like+Life+To+Me:10 >>> 5008242:s315 >>>> 60646.12494198.9720862.0.2.233%2Cstd_a3cbac552e9145ca912afe1e8fdd407d >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>> their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:38 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Equipment Coming In >>>> >>>> Hey all, >>>> I got my VictorStream Reader today, and have it authorized for RFBD >>>> already and have the process started for NLS books. >>>> >>>> DSB says that my equipment is coming in and as soon as all of it is in >>>> (except the VictorStream, which was shipped directly to my apartment), >>>> they'll deliver it and get me set up and start learning it. This from >>>> the people who said they likely wouldn't have it until the end of >>>> semester...I am so mad that I dropped my classes now, since it's only >>>> 3 weeks into classes now. I wish I had waited until the final drop >>>> date. >>>> >>>> So I'm saying Yay for my stuff, but Grrrrr that now I have to wait >>>> till next semester to get going with school. >>>> >>>> In the meantime, I'm going to be on DSB's butt about this. In NC, the >>>> funds are not released until August 1, which is two weeks before >>>> school starts...this gives no time for equipment to get shipped in in >>>> time for school to start. This means that any student who needs >>>> equipment to be able to work to their full ability in class can't >>>> start in the fall but must wait until Spring semester. That's >>>> ridiculous, in my mind. I wasn't able to keep up with classes on the >>>> first week even because I didn't have even basic tools, like a way of >>>> taking notes that didn't hurt me more than it helped or a good >>>> accessible way of reading textbooks in class. Now I have the >>>> VictorStream, so that'll be good for next semester, and they already >>>> have my laptop (though they won't release it until all of the stuff >>>> comes in). >>>> >>>> Does anyone else have trouble with late funding release in their >>>> state? My local president and state president are pushing me to >>>> self-advocate this, but I'm having trouble speaking up for myself (I'm >>>> a bit timid in person), and I'm really not sure what I should be >>>> demanding. Any suggestions on what I should be doing here? I think I >>>> need to advocate for the fund release date to be changed to allow more >>>> time, and I know I need to advocate for more students being allowed >>>> into the college prep class at the Voc Rehab (they have a 15 week >>>> maximum, and there was a really long waiting list for college prep, >>>> so I was unable to get into the college prep class at all). I'm also >>>> hoping to see if they'll let me back in the voc rehab for intensive >>>> college prep training to make up for the training I didn't get when I >>>> was there full-time. They do allow intensive training (one week of >>>> working on one subject only), but it is usually computer training, and >>>> there is only one teacher there who can teach a scanner, one of the >>>> things I'll need to learn, and she's the one who teaches the college >>>> prep *and* consumer education classes, plus she has an intern she's >>>> supervising, *and* she teaches a cooking class)...they have this poor >>>> woman way overworked., and they aren't helping the students meet all >>>> their goals by having a limited college prep placements... >>>> >>>> It's all a bit mess, and any suggestions, ideas, or advice would be >>>> gratly appreciated. And horray for my equipment coming in finally! >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >>> ykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 21:15:50 2010 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:15:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab References: <9317CA42052C4F0287A39331F400C9C6@Espy> <017d01cb4adc$3855aab0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: That's the only efficient way to go. Your school doesn't already have Jaws? Ok? What year is it? Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 13:19 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > Aside from installing Satogo, how about carrhying a USB on which you can > have a portable NVDA, just stick the USB into the computer and run NVDA > from > the USB drive? > Gerardo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hope Paulos" > To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students > mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > > > Either that or try to use another screen reader like system access to go, > which is free and doesn't need to be installed on any particular computer. > When the computer is up and running, in hit ctrl+r and the following > address: > http://www.satogo.com > > Hope this helps. > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Becker" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] language lab > > >> Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to >> listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took >> French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to >> use >> the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these >> situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? >> Rachel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5419 (20100902) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 22:31:56 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:31:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab In-Reply-To: References: <9317CA42052C4F0287A39331F400C9C6@Espy> <017d01cb4adc$3855aab0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: I would definitely talk to the disability services office at your college. Our community college has JAWS on the network so while not all computers on campus have JAWS, they can put JAWS on any computer that they feel needs it. Ask them if they have JAWS on the network, which is a less expensive way for a college that needs JAWS on many computers. If they have it on the network, then ask them to put JAWS on at least one of the language lab computers. It should be on there within the day (it doesn't take long, but requires a technician to do it). The other options are, like said, the portable NVDA (which I definitely recommend over System Access to Go because NVDA runs a lot closer to JAWS) or like another recommended, a reader who knows Spanish. The last option is one I'm not sure about...is this a program that only works on these computers? Can it not be temporarily put on your laptop or on a computer in the DSS office's computer lab, which is fully accessible? If not, back to plans A, B, or C... My two cents, Jewel On 9/2/10, Ben J. Bloomgren wrote: > That's the only efficient way to go. Your school doesn't already have Jaws? > Ok? What year is it? > > Ben > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerardo Corripio" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 13:19 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > > >> Aside from installing Satogo, how about carrhying a USB on which you can >> have a portable NVDA, just stick the USB into the computer and run NVDA >> from >> the USB drive? >> Gerardo >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind >> Students >> mailing list" >> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab >> >> >> Either that or try to use another screen reader like system access to go, >> which is free and doesn't need to be installed on any particular computer. >> When the computer is up and running, in hit ctrl+r and the following >> address: >> http://www.satogo.com >> >> Hope this helps. >> Hope and Beignet >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rachel Becker" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] language lab >> >> >>> Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to >>> listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took >>> French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to >>> use >>> the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these >>> situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? >>> Rachel >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5419 (20100902) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 23:24:25 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:24:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] VictorStream with Bookshare Message-ID: Hey guys, Jewel again. As I said, I just got my VictorStream Reader. I have it authorized for RFBD and am working on the authorization for BARD. I even have NFB-Newsline podables going on it right now, and I've got music on it, as well as mp3 files of DVS movies...all that was pretty easy (though I'm still working on getting the RFBD books to play... The next step I'm working on is Bookshare books. The VictorStream audio tutorial seems to be a bit outdated. I started listening to it, and it told me to get the Unpacking tool through "Download Tools" after logging in...well, that page doesn't have that link! Where do I get the Unpacking tool for Bookshare books? Has anyone figured this out and can you give me step-by-step directions for it? I was really hoping to just do it through the audio tutorial, but that seems outdated or some such... ~Jewel -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From jenandnixon at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 23:42:45 2010 From: jenandnixon at gmail.com (Jen&Nixon) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:42:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! In-Reply-To: <20100817031923.24122.71652@web2> References: <20100817031923.24122.71652@web2> Message-ID: <0d4201cb4af8$8e71f950$f74ec2cf@JenandNixon> This is a very old e-mail, but I had to jump in and give my two cents regarding this, as my background is and has been working with animals and soon will be having my own business offering a pet and house sitting service. Initially, I think having a sighted person, the instructor, to describe the various behaviors the dog is exhibiting, would be most beneficial, so you have some aspect of knowing what is going on, alongside the auditory feedback. In my case, I read body language of a dog extensively visually, as I still have some vision and also rely on the little hearing I have as well. When you work with a dog one-on-one, you will be able to get excellent tactile feedback on what the dog is doing, so you can easily do what you need to do. (such as clicker training). However, meeting with the instructor before hand, and I think the only accomodation would be, requesting that he or she give detailed verbal information of the dog's behavior initially, so that you will have the benefit of understanding what is happening, ... If there is no agression, some dogs could be quiet, and you may not necessarily know what is happening to a dog in the distance (such as teaching a group training class). Most of the time, you will find, you are going to be working with owners describing the behavior to you anyways, and this will allow you to give any advicce you may have that may benefit the person in correcting any behavioral issues they are experiencing. Hopefully, over time, you will know what is happening using all of the senses (what little vision you have or none at all) hearing, touch and believe it or not, smell. Here's an example: My sister's two dogs have food aggression issues, during meals. I have the dogs eating in two separate rooms (managing the behavior), to avoid any issues. When the two were together (my sister never warned me there was concerns until I started to sit for them), they barked and snarled at each other, and a certain aura/smell can dissipate from them when they fight. Using your sense of smell can be handy in those circumstances. I wish you luck in this endeavor, and if you ever wish to speak with someone who has been doing extensive reading and watching of behavior, etc, you are welcomed to e-mail if you ever would like to get some ideas from me how to best assess certain behavioral issues. Keep in mind, although, I keep an open mind on training methods, I usually use operant conditioning methods, and not the traditional training methods as much, and have many "tools in my tool box". Jennifer McEachen and "Nixon" Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc. Alumni Association Board of Directors and secretary jenandnixon at gmail.com / jmceachen at guidedogs.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:19 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! I've already said something similar, but I think it's worth saying again. By having a sighted person give you visual feedback on the dog, the notion that sight is requiried for that feedback in the first place is reconfirmed. Instead, it would be worth it to you for all kinds of reasons to learn to get that feedback non-visually. Not only would you prove that sight is not required thereby opening opportunities for other blind people, but you also have a skill set that you can use whether sighted people are available or not. Does that make sense? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Joe, > The easy part is reading up to figure out how dogs behave agressively, > and i could pull out a bunch of dog training books and take notes on > what to look for in agressive dogs. Because dogs are visual in > agressive situations, for the most part, not being able to see would > hender me ffrom not knowing when to react. Hence bringing along > someone who could give me visual feed back. They wouldn't be telling > me what to do; they would be telling me what the dog is doing. > Technically, i could work 300 hours, training obediance courses and > not dealing with agrssive dogs, then take a dog training > certification test, and become nationally certified that way. However > my thought was that working with the schedule would make learning to train dogs a bit easier. > So the way i se it, i have two options: > 1. fight to get into the school, which could set me up with a job > apon graduation, and teach me how to market myself...all in the course > of 40 to 60 weeks. It would also add another training certificate > under my belt. Then after the school, take a national certification > test, which consits of 250 multiple choice questions relating to every > part of dog training and 300 hours of dog traing with 25 percent of > that being working at local animal shelters. > or > 2. Read every book i can on dog training to teach myself, go to as > many dog training workshops and dog training organization meetings as > i can, apply all of that knowledge in helping people train their dogs, > volonteer at a shelter until i get to 300 hours, take business classes > to learn how to market myself, and take that 250 multiple choice > question test i was talking about. > Option 1 is definitely quicker, but i still want to hear your thoughts > Val > PS, either way, i will be a dog trainer. > On Aug 16, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Valerie, >> I think you'd better find a good way of conveying this to the school. >> It might be a good idea to learn what characteristics aggressive dogs >> are likely to display and spend time in an instructional setting >> learning how to deal with them, but if I were the school personnel >> and you said you needed a sighted person to accompany you to a >> client's home, I'd grow suspicious all over again about whether or >> not you would be fit to do the job. I know readers help us >> successfully complete exams, but this is because without readers we >> sometimes have no way of perceiving the material. With something as >> hands-on as dog training, I would think you would be prepared to deal >> with a number of scenarios, just as orientation instructors would be >> prepared to work through a number of traveling obstacles without sighted assistance. >> Best, >> Joe >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson >> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:51 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! >> When dealing with agressive dogs, i would wonder if it would be >> altering the program if i had someone who could see acompany me, just >> to tell me what's going on visually. That wouldn't alter the program >> i would think. It would be no diferent than having a reader read >> tests. >> If i were at a client's house, and there was an agressive dog, i >> could inform the lcient that i was taking someone along with me, >> simply to give me visual feedback so that i could assess the >> situation. >> Am i wrong here? What do you guys think? >> Thank you for your feedback. >> Val >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> Ug. My brain! Sorry for all those typos folks. Bottom line is >> that the training itself may be fundamentally altered when a blind >> person gets involved, but that's not inherently bad and may benefit >> sighted students. >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Well, not being able to see might fundamentally alter the way the >>>> training is done. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Blind >>>> cane travel instructors are tained a little differently from >>>> sighted ones, but having that alternative training available has >> revoluationized the >>>> cane travel field. Just some thoughts. >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> Original message: >>>>> Greetings all, >>>>> I've just contacted the National Federation of the Blind >> headquarters, >>>>> and was put in touch with Charlie Brown for the problem. >> I gave him a >>>>> rundown of what i told you guys. >>>>> Now, he asks to see the email that the president and i >> shared. Going >>>>> to do that now, and see what he thinks. He watns to see if he >>>>> "can push it a bit", given that i wish to start this program in >> the fall of >>>>> 2011. Depending on what he thinks and what happens, i >> think, he will >>>>> put me in touchwith someone who can help a bit more. >>>>> The only thing that kind of worried me was when his concern about, >>>>> wether being able to see would enterfeer with the >> fundalmental training >>>>> of the program, since programs are allowed to offer reasonable >>>>> accomidations, but don't necissarily have to alter their >> program for you. >>>>> Wish me luck, and I will keep you posted. >>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Justin Young wrote: >>>>>> Val! >>>>>> Great attitude to have! Never give up on the dream! >>>>>> Great luck and yes please keep us all informed. >>>>>> Justin >>>>>> On 8/15/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Well, just to be clear, this school does not train guide >> dogs. ittrains >>>>>>> trainers to train your everyday house dog pet. >>>>>>> Because graduation doesn't qualify you as a professional >> dog trainer in some >>>>>>> dog trainer organizations, i plan to take a 250 question >> test that will >>>>>>> qualify me as a professional dog trainer. After that, I >> do plan on >>>>>>> training various service dogs. >>>>>>> You are right in that, even though it's not a guide dog >> training school, the >>>>>>> school shoudl consider: what if a blind person gets a >> confrontational pet >>>>>>> dog. Because it's not a guide dog, this is more likely >> to happen since >>>>>>> around 2 million people rescue dogs a year in ameria. >>>>>>> I love reading what you all have to say, and tomorrow i >> plan to contact the >>>>>>> national headquarters. I will keep you all posted. >>>>>>> Thank you all so much for your support in this. Right >> now, my own family is >>>>>>> hesitant to support me, which shouldn't be suprising but >> is nevertheless. >>>>>>> It helps to have the support from the NFB. >>>>>>> Keep the comments coming, if you have any, and inthe mean >> time i'll kep you >>>>>>> guys posted. Who knows, there may be someone who's >> thought about becoming a >>>>>>> dog trainer out there but hasn't due to their >> blindness.On Aug 15, 2010, at >>>>>>> 11:33 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Val and all, >>>>>>>> I think it's pretty crazy that some of the worst >> discrimination we >>>>>>>> face is from fields dedicated to improving the lives of >> blind people, >>>>>>>> such as O&M teaching and guide dog training. The >> underlying attitude >>>>>>>> is that blind people should be recipients of specialized >> services, but >>>>>>>> cannot be the service providers. I think this battle is even >>>>>>>> more important to fight because it is unacceptable in my mind >> that people >>>>>>>> who train guide dogs for the blind feel the need to >>>>>>>> discriminate against blind trainers. For that matter, how does >>>>>>>> this >> school expect >>>>>>>> its blind students to defend themselves in situations >> where their dog >>>>>>>> may be attacked by another animal that is "aggressive and >>>>>>>> confrontational"? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Val, >>>>>>>>> I really love your attitude. I'm not going to make >> people like me for >>>>>>>>> what I want to do for women, so I'm just going to go to >> school and >>>>>>>>> becomea social worker for women in battered women's >> shelters. So what >>>>>>>>> if people say I can't stqand a cowering woman and a big >> violent guy? >>>>>>>>> I'm tiny, really tiny, and I think short people have pretty >>>>>>>>> big brains, mind you. This goes to show that it's all about >>>>>>>>> one's attitude. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I also do not agree with cuting my losses to this >> school, simply bcause >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the aftermath, for a couple of reasons. >>>>>>>>>> 1. I've looked into other dog training schools, and >> this one seems to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> the best. it offers hands-on training over a lot of >> subjects related to >>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>> training as well as dog care such as neutrition, >> health problems in >>>>>>>>>> breeds, >>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>> 2. If i asked a sighted person to find a carreer that >> they liked, then >>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>> a school that would help them achieve that job, then >> told them, "now >>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>> that school, and forget about it. find the second >> best.", they would >>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>> likely tell me to take a long walk off of a short peer. >>>>>>>>>> Sighted people have professors that may not like them >> in universities, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> that does not mean that they should switch classes. >>>>>>>>>> Even after my schooling, i'm going to be faced with >> people who do not >>>>>>>>>> approve of my job vhoice, and even more who will not >> allow me to train >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> dogs due to blindness. I might as well get used to it. >>>>>>>>>> I am going into the school to gain the knowledge and >> foundation that i >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> to become a successful dog trainer, and i'm not asking >> anyone to like me >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>>>>>> I don't know that I completely agree with finding >> another school that >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> be more welcoming and allowing actions to speak for >> themselves. It's a >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>> thought if only because it will move along Valerie's >> career, but not >>>>>>>>>>> fighting it simply because a victory might expose her >> to an awkward >>>>>>>>>>> environment afterward is not good enough to let it >> go. A few years ago >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> sued a Chinese bus carrier after they gave me a hard >> time about my >>>>>>>>>>> guide >>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>> on what became three consecutive occasions. On the >> first two occasions >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> situation became a nuisance involving the police. I >> fought it and >>>>>>>>>>> successfully took my trips to and from New York from >> DC, but the >>>>>>>>>>> traveling >>>>>>>>>>> consisted of a lot of dirty looks and hateful >> muttering. On the third >>>>>>>>>>> attempt I was not even allowed to board the bus, but >> by then the case >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> already well on its way to federal court. My point >> is that the current >>>>>>>>>>> school will not learn from Valerie going away. >> Finding another school >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> still pursuing action with the current campus is one >> option, but I hope >>>>>>>>>>> something will become of this situation. I do not >> know Valerie >>>>>>>>>>> personally. >>>>>>>>>>> I assume she meets all the other qualifications >> associated with >>>>>>>>>>> enrollment >>>>>>>>>>> and that the only reason enrollment is being denied >> is that she cannot >>>>>>>>>>> see. >>>>>>>>>>> If so, it's an issue that needs to be rectified if >> for no other reason >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>> that the opportunity needs to exist for future blind >> applicants. I >>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> know if my friendly little bus people would allow >> people to board their >>>>>>>>>>> buses with service animals these days, but I know >> they'll at least >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> twice before saying "no." >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some >> turn up their >>>>>>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka >> yla%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >> isloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pre >> sident%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka >> yla%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka >> yla%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samobile.net >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. >> Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka >> yla%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4 >> 0gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% > 40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenandnixon%40gmail. com From jenandnixon at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 23:45:54 2010 From: jenandnixon at gmail.com (Jen&Nixon) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:45:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! In-Reply-To: <091DC56F544D4FA29B3E0105A12CF27C@YOURZVIRQM73LR> References: <20100817030836.20952.22110@web3> <091DC56F544D4FA29B3E0105A12CF27C@YOURZVIRQM73LR> Message-ID: <0d6101cb4af8$fc6a7090$f74ec2cf@JenandNixon> Megan is correct, some dogs can exhibit silent cues, barring teeth, averted eyes, and sometimes raise their hairs before an oncoming attack, however, once the attack starts, they will start to develop snarling and growling. Hope those descriptions can help. Jennifer McEachen and "Nixon" Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc. Alumni Association Board of Directors and secretary jenandnixon at gmail.com / jmceachen at guidedogs.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Meghan Whalen Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! Honestly, cane travel and dog training are not at all the same, and I don't think it is fare to be comparing the two. Dealing with an agressive dog who is capable of causing bodily harm when you're just standing there, if you don't pick up on the visual queues that he's feeling threatened is different than coming up to a difficult to figure out obstacle with a cane. I don't think I'm making much sense here, so let me know if clarification is needed. Meghan I'm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! > By taking a sighted person along in aggressive dog or potentially > aggressive dog situations, or by asking for such an accommodation in the > classroom setting, you're basically reinforcing the notion that sight is > required for getting feedback from an aggressive dog. That probably > wouldn't be so as much in the real world post dog school, but the dog > training school would definitely be problematic for that reason. It would > be like saying that a blind person can be a cane travel teacher and > monitor their student non-visually, only to ask for a sighted person to > come along to monitor the student visually. Also, by asking for a sighted > person to tag along, the issue of non-visual access to the training > doesn't get pushed, creativity slows down, and the status quo remains. > Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds counterintuitive to what you're trying to > advocate. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> When dealing with agressive dogs, i would wonder if it would be altering >> the program if i had someone who could see acompany me, just to tell me >> what's going on visually. That wouldn't alter the program i would think. >> It would be no diferent than having a reader read tests. > >> If i were at a client's house, and there was an agressive dog, i could >> inform the lcient that i was taking someone along with me, simply to give >> me visual feedback so that i could assess the situation. > >> Am i wrong here? What do you guys think? > >> Thank you for your feedback. > >> Val >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Jedi wrote: > >>> Ug. My brain! Sorry for all those typos folks. Bottom line is that the >>> training itself may be fundamentally altered when a blind person gets >>> involved, but that's not inherently bad and may benefit sighted >>> students. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi > >>> Original message: >>>> Well, not being able to see might fundamentally alter the way the >>>> training is done. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Blind cane >>>> travel instructors are tained a little differently from sighted ones, >>>> but having that alternative training available has revoluationized the >>>> cane travel field. Just some thoughts. > >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi > >>>> Original message: >>>>> Greetings all, > >>>>> I've just contacted the National Federation of the Blind headquarters, >>>>> and was put in touch with Charlie Brown for the problem. I gave him >>>>> a >>>>> rundown of what i told you guys. > >>>>> Now, he asks to see the email that the president and i shared. Going >>>>> to do that now, and see what he thinks. He watns to see if he "can >>>>> push it a bit", given that i wish to start this program in the fall of >>>>> 2011. Depending on what he thinks and what happens, i think, he will >>>>> put me in touchwith someone who can help a bit more. > >>>>> The only thing that kind of worried me was when his concern about, >>>>> wether being able to see would enterfeer with the fundalmental >>>>> training >>>>> of the program, since programs are allowed to offer reasonable >>>>> accomidations, but don't necissarily have to alter their program for >>>>> you. > >>>>> Wish me luck, and I will keep you posted. >>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Justin Young wrote: > >>>>>> Val! > >>>>>> Great attitude to have! Never give up on the dream! >>>>>> Great luck and yes please keep us all informed. > >>>>>> Justin > >>>>>> On 8/15/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> Well, just to be clear, this school does not train guide dogs. >>>>>>> ittrains >>>>>>> trainers to train your everyday house dog pet. > >>>>>>> Because graduation doesn't qualify you as a professional dog trainer >>>>>>> in some >>>>>>> dog trainer organizations, i plan to take a 250 question test that >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> qualify me as a professional dog trainer. After that, I do plan on >>>>>>> training various service dogs. > >>>>>>> You are right in that, even though it's not a guide dog training >>>>>>> school, the >>>>>>> school shoudl consider: what if a blind person gets a >>>>>>> confrontational pet >>>>>>> dog. Because it's not a guide dog, this is more likely to happen >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> around 2 million people rescue dogs a year in ameria. > >>>>>>> I love reading what you all have to say, and tomorrow i plan to >>>>>>> contact the >>>>>>> national headquarters. I will keep you all posted. > >>>>>>> Thank you all so much for your support in this. Right now, my own >>>>>>> family is >>>>>>> hesitant to support me, which shouldn't be suprising but is >>>>>>> nevertheless. >>>>>>> It helps to have the support from the NFB. > > >>>>>>> Keep the comments coming, if you have any, and inthe mean time i'll >>>>>>> kep you >>>>>>> guys posted. Who knows, there may be someone who's thought about >>>>>>> becoming a >>>>>>> dog trainer out there but hasn't due to their blindness.On Aug 15, >>>>>>> 2010, at >>>>>>> 11:33 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi Val and all, > >>>>>>>> I think it's pretty crazy that some of the worst discrimination we >>>>>>>> face is from fields dedicated to improving the lives of blind >>>>>>>> people, >>>>>>>> such as O&M teaching and guide dog training. The underlying >>>>>>>> attitude >>>>>>>> is that blind people should be recipients of specialized services, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> cannot be the service providers. I think this battle is even more >>>>>>>> important to fight because it is unacceptable in my mind that >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> who train guide dogs for the blind feel the need to discriminate >>>>>>>> against blind trainers. For that matter, how does this school >>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>> its blind students to defend themselves in situations where their >>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>> may be attacked by another animal that is "aggressive and >>>>>>>> confrontational"? > >>>>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>> Val, >>>>>>>>> I really love your attitude. I'm not going to make people like me >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> what I want to do for women, so I'm just going to go to school and >>>>>>>>> becomea social worker for women in battered women's shelters. So >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> if people say I can't stqand a cowering woman and a big violent >>>>>>>>> guy? >>>>>>>>> I'm tiny, really tiny, and I think short people have pretty big >>>>>>>>> brains, mind you. This goes to show that it's all about one's >>>>>>>>> attitude. >>>>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I also do not agree with cuting my losses to this school, simply >>>>>>>>>> bcause >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the aftermath, for a couple of reasons. > >>>>>>>>>> 1. I've looked into other dog training schools, and this one >>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> the best. it offers hands-on training over a lot of subjects >>>>>>>>>> related to >>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>> training as well as dog care such as neutrition, health problems >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> breeds, >>>>>>>>>> etc. > >>>>>>>>>> 2. If i asked a sighted person to find a carreer that they >>>>>>>>>> liked, then >>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>> a school that would help them achieve that job, then told them, >>>>>>>>>> "now >>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>> that school, and forget about it. find the second best.", they >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>> likely tell me to take a long walk off of a short peer. > >>>>>>>>>> Sighted people have professors that may not like them in >>>>>>>>>> universities, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> that does not mean that they should switch classes. > >>>>>>>>>> Even after my schooling, i'm going to be faced with people who do >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> approve of my job vhoice, and even more who will not allow me to >>>>>>>>>> train >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> dogs due to blindness. I might as well get used to it. > >>>>>>>>>> I am going into the school to gain the knowledge and foundation >>>>>>>>>> that i >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> to become a successful dog trainer, and i'm not asking anyone to >>>>>>>>>> like me >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Mark, > >>>>>>>>>>> I don't know that I completely agree with finding another school >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> be more welcoming and allowing actions to speak for themselves. >>>>>>>>>>> It's a >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>> thought if only because it will move along Valerie's career, but >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> fighting it simply because a victory might expose her to an >>>>>>>>>>> awkward >>>>>>>>>>> environment afterward is not good enough to let it go. A few >>>>>>>>>>> years ago >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> sued a Chinese bus carrier after they gave me a hard time about >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> guide >>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>> on what became three consecutive occasions. On the first two >>>>>>>>>>> occasions >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> situation became a nuisance involving the police. I fought it >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> successfully took my trips to and from New York from DC, but the >>>>>>>>>>> traveling >>>>>>>>>>> consisted of a lot of dirty looks and hateful muttering. On the >>>>>>>>>>> third >>>>>>>>>>> attempt I was not even allowed to board the bus, but by then the >>>>>>>>>>> case >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> already well on its way to federal court. My point is that the >>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>> school will not learn from Valerie going away. Finding another >>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> still pursuing action with the current campus is one option, but >>>>>>>>>>> I hope >>>>>>>>>>> something will become of this situation. I do not know Valerie >>>>>>>>>>> personally. >>>>>>>>>>> I assume she meets all the other qualifications associated with >>>>>>>>>>> enrollment >>>>>>>>>>> and that the only reason enrollment is being denied is that she >>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>> see. >>>>>>>>>>> If so, it's an issue that needs to be rectified if for no other >>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>> that the opportunity needs to exist for future blind applicants. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> know if my friendly little bus people would allow people to >>>>>>>>>>> board their >>>>>>>>>>> buses with service animals these days, but I know they'll at >>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> twice before saying "no." > >>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>>> Joe > >>>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>>>>>>>>> Ewing > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com > > > >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenandnixon%40gmail. com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 23:56:54 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:56:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! In-Reply-To: <0d6101cb4af8$fc6a7090$f74ec2cf@JenandNixon> References: <20100817030836.20952.22110@web3> <091DC56F544D4FA29B3E0105A12CF27C@YOURZVIRQM73LR> <0d6101cb4af8$fc6a7090$f74ec2cf@JenandNixon> Message-ID: I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up yet in regards to dog aggression. While it wouldn't be smart to touch a dog to see what it is doing, you *could* use an artificial hand to tst the dog. You know, like what they use in rescue shelters sometimes to test a dog's temperament? I know I've seen it on Animal Planet on one of those animal rescue shows...It's basically a plastic hand on a stick (the stick is like 3 feet long). You extend the hand and pet the dog with the hand. If the dog doesn't attack the hand, they are unlikely to attack you. However, you can tell if the dog doesn't like touch period, because the aggressive dogs will attack the hand...one dog on the show bit off two of the fingers of the plastic hand! This hand is used to pet the dog without worry of being bitten yourself, and is also used to pull food away from the dog while s/he is eating to test food aggression, and to pull away toys to test toy aggression. I think using a fake hand (I don't know the trainer term for it, but I know they use it with aggressive dog testing) would be very useful for a blind person testing for aggression. It would also come in handy teting a cat...I think I'd rather the plastic hand get scratched then my soon-to-be bloody hand! Just an idea that popped into my head, Jewel On 9/2/10, Jen&Nixon wrote: > Megan is correct, some dogs can exhibit silent cues, barring teeth, averted > eyes, and sometimes raise their hairs before an oncoming attack, however, > once the attack starts, they will start to develop snarling and growling. > Hope those descriptions can help. > > > Jennifer McEachen and "Nixon" > Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc. > Alumni Association Board of Directors and secretary > jenandnixon at gmail.com / jmceachen at guidedogs.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Meghan Whalen > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! > > Honestly, cane travel and dog training are not at all the same, and I don't > think it is fare to be comparing the two. > > Dealing with an agressive dog who is capable of causing bodily harm when > you're just standing there, if you don't pick up on the visual queues that > he's feeling threatened is different than coming up to a difficult to figure > out obstacle with a cane. > > I don't think I'm making much sense here, so let me know if clarification is > needed. > > Meghan > I'm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! > > >> By taking a sighted person along in aggressive dog or potentially >> aggressive dog situations, or by asking for such an accommodation in the >> classroom setting, you're basically reinforcing the notion that sight is >> required for getting feedback from an aggressive dog. That probably >> wouldn't be so as much in the real world post dog school, but the dog >> training school would definitely be problematic for that reason. It would >> be like saying that a blind person can be a cane travel teacher and >> monitor their student non-visually, only to ask for a sighted person to >> come along to monitor the student visually. Also, by asking for a sighted >> person to tag along, the issue of non-visual access to the training >> doesn't get pushed, creativity slows down, and the status quo remains. >> Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds counterintuitive to what you're trying to > >> advocate. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> When dealing with agressive dogs, i would wonder if it would be altering >>> the program if i had someone who could see acompany me, just to tell me >>> what's going on visually. That wouldn't alter the program i would think. >>> It would be no diferent than having a reader read tests. >> >>> If i were at a client's house, and there was an agressive dog, i could >>> inform the lcient that i was taking someone along with me, simply to give > >>> me visual feedback so that i could assess the situation. >> >>> Am i wrong here? What do you guys think? >> >>> Thank you for your feedback. >> >>> Val >>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>>> Ug. My brain! Sorry for all those typos folks. Bottom line is that the >>>> training itself may be fundamentally altered when a blind person gets >>>> involved, but that's not inherently bad and may benefit sighted >>>> students. >> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >> >>>> Original message: >>>>> Well, not being able to see might fundamentally alter the way the >>>>> training is done. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Blind cane >>>>> travel instructors are tained a little differently from sighted ones, >>>>> but having that alternative training available has revoluationized the >>>>> cane travel field. Just some thoughts. >> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Greetings all, >> >>>>>> I've just contacted the National Federation of the Blind headquarters, >>>>>> and was put in touch with Charlie Brown for the problem. I gave him >>>>>> a >>>>>> rundown of what i told you guys. >> >>>>>> Now, he asks to see the email that the president and i shared. Going >>>>>> to do that now, and see what he thinks. He watns to see if he "can >>>>>> push it a bit", given that i wish to start this program in the fall of >>>>>> 2011. Depending on what he thinks and what happens, i think, he will >>>>>> put me in touchwith someone who can help a bit more. >> >>>>>> The only thing that kind of worried me was when his concern about, >>>>>> wether being able to see would enterfeer with the fundalmental >>>>>> training >>>>>> of the program, since programs are allowed to offer reasonable >>>>>> accomidations, but don't necissarily have to alter their program for >>>>>> you. >> >>>>>> Wish me luck, and I will keep you posted. >>>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Justin Young wrote: >> >>>>>>> Val! >> >>>>>>> Great attitude to have! Never give up on the dream! >>>>>>> Great luck and yes please keep us all informed. >> >>>>>>> Justin >> >>>>>>> On 8/15/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>>>> Well, just to be clear, this school does not train guide dogs. >>>>>>>> ittrains >>>>>>>> trainers to train your everyday house dog pet. >> >>>>>>>> Because graduation doesn't qualify you as a professional dog trainer > >>>>>>>> in some >>>>>>>> dog trainer organizations, i plan to take a 250 question test that >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> qualify me as a professional dog trainer. After that, I do plan on >>>>>>>> training various service dogs. >> >>>>>>>> You are right in that, even though it's not a guide dog training >>>>>>>> school, the >>>>>>>> school shoudl consider: what if a blind person gets a >>>>>>>> confrontational pet >>>>>>>> dog. Because it's not a guide dog, this is more likely to happen >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> around 2 million people rescue dogs a year in ameria. >> >>>>>>>> I love reading what you all have to say, and tomorrow i plan to >>>>>>>> contact the >>>>>>>> national headquarters. I will keep you all posted. >> >>>>>>>> Thank you all so much for your support in this. Right now, my own >>>>>>>> family is >>>>>>>> hesitant to support me, which shouldn't be suprising but is >>>>>>>> nevertheless. >>>>>>>> It helps to have the support from the NFB. >> >> >>>>>>>> Keep the comments coming, if you have any, and inthe mean time i'll >>>>>>>> kep you >>>>>>>> guys posted. Who knows, there may be someone who's thought about >>>>>>>> becoming a >>>>>>>> dog trainer out there but hasn't due to their blindness.On Aug 15, >>>>>>>> 2010, at >>>>>>>> 11:33 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> Hi Val and all, >> >>>>>>>>> I think it's pretty crazy that some of the worst discrimination we >>>>>>>>> face is from fields dedicated to improving the lives of blind >>>>>>>>> people, >>>>>>>>> such as O&M teaching and guide dog training. The underlying >>>>>>>>> attitude >>>>>>>>> is that blind people should be recipients of specialized services, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> cannot be the service providers. I think this battle is even more >>>>>>>>> important to fight because it is unacceptable in my mind that >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> who train guide dogs for the blind feel the need to discriminate >>>>>>>>> against blind trainers. For that matter, how does this school >>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>> its blind students to defend themselves in situations where their >>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>> may be attacked by another animal that is "aggressive and >>>>>>>>> confrontational"? >> >>>>>>>>> Arielle >> >>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Val, >>>>>>>>>> I really love your attitude. I'm not going to make people like me > >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> what I want to do for women, so I'm just going to go to school and >>>>>>>>>> becomea social worker for women in battered women's shelters. So >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> if people say I can't stqand a cowering woman and a big violent >>>>>>>>>> guy? >>>>>>>>>> I'm tiny, really tiny, and I think short people have pretty big >>>>>>>>>> brains, mind you. This goes to show that it's all about one's >>>>>>>>>> attitude. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >> >>>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I also do not agree with cuting my losses to this school, simply >>>>>>>>>>> bcause >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the aftermath, for a couple of reasons. >> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. I've looked into other dog training schools, and this one >>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> the best. it offers hands-on training over a lot of subjects >>>>>>>>>>> related to >>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>> training as well as dog care such as neutrition, health problems >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> breeds, >>>>>>>>>>> etc. >> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. If i asked a sighted person to find a carreer that they >>>>>>>>>>> liked, then >>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>> a school that would help them achieve that job, then told them, >>>>>>>>>>> "now >>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> that school, and forget about it. find the second best.", they >>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>> likely tell me to take a long walk off of a short peer. >> >>>>>>>>>>> Sighted people have professors that may not like them in >>>>>>>>>>> universities, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> that does not mean that they should switch classes. >> >>>>>>>>>>> Even after my schooling, i'm going to be faced with people who do > >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> approve of my job vhoice, and even more who will not allow me to >>>>>>>>>>> train >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> dogs due to blindness. I might as well get used to it. >> >>>>>>>>>>> I am going into the school to gain the knowledge and foundation >>>>>>>>>>> that i >>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>> to become a successful dog trainer, and i'm not asking anyone to >>>>>>>>>>> like me >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mark, >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know that I completely agree with finding another school > >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>> be more welcoming and allowing actions to speak for themselves. >>>>>>>>>>>> It's a >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>> thought if only because it will move along Valerie's career, but > >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> fighting it simply because a victory might expose her to an >>>>>>>>>>>> awkward >>>>>>>>>>>> environment afterward is not good enough to let it go. A few >>>>>>>>>>>> years ago >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> sued a Chinese bus carrier after they gave me a hard time about >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> guide >>>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>>> on what became three consecutive occasions. On the first two >>>>>>>>>>>> occasions >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> situation became a nuisance involving the police. I fought it >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> successfully took my trips to and from New York from DC, but the >>>>>>>>>>>> traveling >>>>>>>>>>>> consisted of a lot of dirty looks and hateful muttering. On the > >>>>>>>>>>>> third >>>>>>>>>>>> attempt I was not even allowed to board the bus, but by then the > >>>>>>>>>>>> case >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> already well on its way to federal court. My point is that the >>>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>> school will not learn from Valerie going away. Finding another >>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>> still pursuing action with the current campus is one option, but > >>>>>>>>>>>> I hope >>>>>>>>>>>> something will become of this situation. I do not know Valerie >>>>>>>>>>>> personally. >>>>>>>>>>>> I assume she meets all the other qualifications associated with >>>>>>>>>>>> enrollment >>>>>>>>>>>> and that the only reason enrollment is being denied is that she >>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>> see. >>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it's an issue that needs to be rectified if for no other >>>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> that the opportunity needs to exist for future blind applicants. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>> know if my friendly little bus people would allow people to >>>>>>>>>>>> board their >>>>>>>>>>>> buses with service animals these days, but I know they'll at >>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> twice before saying "no." >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Joe >> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>>>>>>>>>> Ewing >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm > ail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenandnixon%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com Fri Sep 3 02:12:23 2010 From: Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com (Rachel Becker) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 22:12:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What is NVDA and how do you get it? Thanks. Rachel -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab That's the only efficient way to go. Your school doesn't already have Jaws? Ok? What year is it? Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 13:19 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > Aside from installing Satogo, how about carrhying a USB on which you can > have a portable NVDA, just stick the USB into the computer and run NVDA > from > the USB drive? > Gerardo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hope Paulos" > To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students > mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > > > Either that or try to use another screen reader like system access to go, > which is free and doesn't need to be installed on any particular computer. > When the computer is up and running, in hit ctrl+r and the following > address: > http://www.satogo.com > > Hope this helps. > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Becker" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] language lab > > >> Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to >> listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took >> French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to >> use >> the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these >> situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? >> Rachel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail. com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5419 (20100902) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gm ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu ltants.com From davidschool97 at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 02:22:17 2010 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 21:22:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] language lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FA03F60225F49AB9BA81F52A5D05580@Davidpc> you go to nvda-project.org and click on the download link if you do not want to do that feel free to e-mail me off list and I will send you the exe of it David Thomas Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line Vice President of Paez Production Networks subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachel Becker" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:12 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > What is NVDA and how do you get it? > Thanks. > Rachel > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > > > That's the only efficient way to go. Your school doesn't already have > Jaws? > Ok? What year is it? > > Ben > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerardo Corripio" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 13:19 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab > > >> Aside from installing Satogo, how about carrhying a USB on which you can >> have a portable NVDA, just stick the USB into the computer and run NVDA >> from >> the USB drive? >> Gerardo >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hope Paulos" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind >> Students >> mailing list" >> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] language lab >> >> >> Either that or try to use another screen reader like system access to go, >> which is free and doesn't need to be installed on any particular >> computer. >> When the computer is up and running, in hit ctrl+r and the following >> address: >> http://www.satogo.com >> >> Hope this helps. >> Hope and Beignet >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rachel Becker" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:29 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] language lab >> >> >>> Hello all. I am taking a French course this semester that requires me to >>> listen to and record materials in my college's language lab. When I took >>> French before, the listening activities were online so I didn't have to >>> use >>> the lab, but this time they are not online. What have you done in these >>> situations? Should I try to get JAWS installed on one of the computers? >>> Rachel >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail. > com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5419 (20100902) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5419 (20100902) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu > ltants.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 06:16:04 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 01:16:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! In-Reply-To: References: <20100817030836.20952.22110@web3> <091DC56F544D4FA29B3E0105A12CF27C@YOURZVIRQM73LR> <0d6101cb4af8$fc6a7090$f74ec2cf@JenandNixon> Message-ID: Hi, It's so irronic that i'm just reading these posts, because i was sort of wondering where to go from here as far as the training carrer. I haven't heard back from the guy i talked to at the NFB headquarters, though i need to check my spam folder to make sure and email didn't get lost in there. As for the artificial hand: I know exactly what you're talking about. I too have seen that on Animal Planet, and i could have kicked myself for not thinking of it as well. it's a very good suggestion, i'd think. As for anyone who works with dogs, I would love to pick your brains offlist, to see about getting some ideas, as i will need them if i'm going to fight the school on this. I also plan on finding some reputable dog training mailing lists to get on, and see if i can't find, evena sighted person, who's willing to think outside of the box when it comes to this. I will keep you all posted, And i think you for your comments. Thsi seemingly random rediscussion of the topic has boosted my spirits on the matter quite a bit. So, again, thank you, and I'm still allears to any more comments. On Sep 2, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up yet in regards > to dog aggression. While it wouldn't be smart to touch a dog to see > what it is doing, you *could* use an artificial hand to tst the dog. > You know, like what they use in rescue shelters sometimes to test a > dog's temperament? I know I've seen it on Animal Planet on one of > those animal rescue shows...It's basically a plastic hand on a stick > (the stick is like 3 feet long). You extend the hand and pet the dog > with the hand. If the dog doesn't attack the hand, they are unlikely > to attack you. However, you can tell if the dog doesn't like touch > period, because the aggressive dogs will attack the hand...one dog on > the show bit off two of the fingers of the plastic hand! This hand is > used to pet the dog without worry of being bitten yourself, and is > also used to pull food away from the dog while s/he is eating to test > food aggression, and to pull away toys to test toy aggression. I think > using a fake hand (I don't know the trainer term for it, but I know > they use it with aggressive dog testing) would be very useful for a > blind person testing for aggression. It would also come in handy > teting a cat...I think I'd rather the plastic hand get scratched then > my soon-to-be bloody hand! > > Just an idea that popped into my head, > Jewel > > On 9/2/10, Jen&Nixon wrote: >> Megan is correct, some dogs can exhibit silent cues, barring teeth, averted >> eyes, and sometimes raise their hairs before an oncoming attack, however, >> once the attack starts, they will start to develop snarling and growling. >> Hope those descriptions can help. >> >> >> Jennifer McEachen and "Nixon" >> Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc. >> Alumni Association Board of Directors and secretary >> jenandnixon at gmail.com / jmceachen at guidedogs.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Meghan Whalen >> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! >> >> Honestly, cane travel and dog training are not at all the same, and I don't >> think it is fare to be comparing the two. >> >> Dealing with an agressive dog who is capable of causing bodily harm when >> you're just standing there, if you don't pick up on the visual queues that >> he's feeling threatened is different than coming up to a difficult to figure >> out obstacle with a cane. >> >> I don't think I'm making much sense here, so let me know if clarification is >> needed. >> >> Meghan >> I'm >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jedi" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! >> >> >>> By taking a sighted person along in aggressive dog or potentially >>> aggressive dog situations, or by asking for such an accommodation in the >>> classroom setting, you're basically reinforcing the notion that sight is >>> required for getting feedback from an aggressive dog. That probably >>> wouldn't be so as much in the real world post dog school, but the dog >>> training school would definitely be problematic for that reason. It would >>> be like saying that a blind person can be a cane travel teacher and >>> monitor their student non-visually, only to ask for a sighted person to >>> come along to monitor the student visually. Also, by asking for a sighted >>> person to tag along, the issue of non-visual access to the training >>> doesn't get pushed, creativity slows down, and the status quo remains. >>> Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds counterintuitive to what you're trying to >> >>> advocate. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> When dealing with agressive dogs, i would wonder if it would be altering >>>> the program if i had someone who could see acompany me, just to tell me >>>> what's going on visually. That wouldn't alter the program i would think. >>>> It would be no diferent than having a reader read tests. >>> >>>> If i were at a client's house, and there was an agressive dog, i could >>>> inform the lcient that i was taking someone along with me, simply to give >> >>>> me visual feedback so that i could assess the situation. >>> >>>> Am i wrong here? What do you guys think? >>> >>>> Thank you for your feedback. >>> >>>> Val >>>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>>> Ug. My brain! Sorry for all those typos folks. Bottom line is that the >>>>> training itself may be fundamentally altered when a blind person gets >>>>> involved, but that's not inherently bad and may benefit sighted >>>>> students. >>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Well, not being able to see might fundamentally alter the way the >>>>>> training is done. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Blind cane >>>>>> travel instructors are tained a little differently from sighted ones, >>>>>> but having that alternative training available has revoluationized the >>>>>> cane travel field. Just some thoughts. >>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>> >>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>> Greetings all, >>> >>>>>>> I've just contacted the National Federation of the Blind headquarters, >>>>>>> and was put in touch with Charlie Brown for the problem. I gave him >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> rundown of what i told you guys. >>> >>>>>>> Now, he asks to see the email that the president and i shared. Going >>>>>>> to do that now, and see what he thinks. He watns to see if he "can >>>>>>> push it a bit", given that i wish to start this program in the fall of >>>>>>> 2011. Depending on what he thinks and what happens, i think, he will >>>>>>> put me in touchwith someone who can help a bit more. >>> >>>>>>> The only thing that kind of worried me was when his concern about, >>>>>>> wether being able to see would enterfeer with the fundalmental >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> of the program, since programs are allowed to offer reasonable >>>>>>> accomidations, but don't necissarily have to alter their program for >>>>>>> you. >>> >>>>>>> Wish me luck, and I will keep you posted. >>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Justin Young wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Val! >>> >>>>>>>> Great attitude to have! Never give up on the dream! >>>>>>>> Great luck and yes please keep us all informed. >>> >>>>>>>> Justin >>> >>>>>>>> On 8/15/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>>>> Well, just to be clear, this school does not train guide dogs. >>>>>>>>> ittrains >>>>>>>>> trainers to train your everyday house dog pet. >>> >>>>>>>>> Because graduation doesn't qualify you as a professional dog trainer >> >>>>>>>>> in some >>>>>>>>> dog trainer organizations, i plan to take a 250 question test that >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> qualify me as a professional dog trainer. After that, I do plan on >>>>>>>>> training various service dogs. >>> >>>>>>>>> You are right in that, even though it's not a guide dog training >>>>>>>>> school, the >>>>>>>>> school shoudl consider: what if a blind person gets a >>>>>>>>> confrontational pet >>>>>>>>> dog. Because it's not a guide dog, this is more likely to happen >>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>> around 2 million people rescue dogs a year in ameria. >>> >>>>>>>>> I love reading what you all have to say, and tomorrow i plan to >>>>>>>>> contact the >>>>>>>>> national headquarters. I will keep you all posted. >>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you all so much for your support in this. Right now, my own >>>>>>>>> family is >>>>>>>>> hesitant to support me, which shouldn't be suprising but is >>>>>>>>> nevertheless. >>>>>>>>> It helps to have the support from the NFB. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Keep the comments coming, if you have any, and inthe mean time i'll >>>>>>>>> kep you >>>>>>>>> guys posted. Who knows, there may be someone who's thought about >>>>>>>>> becoming a >>>>>>>>> dog trainer out there but hasn't due to their blindness.On Aug 15, >>>>>>>>> 2010, at >>>>>>>>> 11:33 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Val and all, >>> >>>>>>>>>> I think it's pretty crazy that some of the worst discrimination we >>>>>>>>>> face is from fields dedicated to improving the lives of blind >>>>>>>>>> people, >>>>>>>>>> such as O&M teaching and guide dog training. The underlying >>>>>>>>>> attitude >>>>>>>>>> is that blind people should be recipients of specialized services, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> cannot be the service providers. I think this battle is even more >>>>>>>>>> important to fight because it is unacceptable in my mind that >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> who train guide dogs for the blind feel the need to discriminate >>>>>>>>>> against blind trainers. For that matter, how does this school >>>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>>> its blind students to defend themselves in situations where their >>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>> may be attacked by another animal that is "aggressive and >>>>>>>>>> confrontational"? >>> >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Val, >>>>>>>>>>> I really love your attitude. I'm not going to make people like me >> >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> what I want to do for women, so I'm just going to go to school and >>>>>>>>>>> becomea social worker for women in battered women's shelters. So >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> if people say I can't stqand a cowering woman and a big violent >>>>>>>>>>> guy? >>>>>>>>>>> I'm tiny, really tiny, and I think short people have pretty big >>>>>>>>>>> brains, mind you. This goes to show that it's all about one's >>>>>>>>>>> attitude. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I also do not agree with cuting my losses to this school, simply >>>>>>>>>>>> bcause >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the aftermath, for a couple of reasons. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. I've looked into other dog training schools, and this one >>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> the best. it offers hands-on training over a lot of subjects >>>>>>>>>>>> related to >>>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>>> training as well as dog care such as neutrition, health problems >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> breeds, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If i asked a sighted person to find a carreer that they >>>>>>>>>>>> liked, then >>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>> a school that would help them achieve that job, then told them, >>>>>>>>>>>> "now >>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>> that school, and forget about it. find the second best.", they >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>> likely tell me to take a long walk off of a short peer. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sighted people have professors that may not like them in >>>>>>>>>>>> universities, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> that does not mean that they should switch classes. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Even after my schooling, i'm going to be faced with people who do >> >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> approve of my job vhoice, and even more who will not allow me to >>>>>>>>>>>> train >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> dogs due to blindness. I might as well get used to it. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am going into the school to gain the knowledge and foundation >>>>>>>>>>>> that i >>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>> to become a successful dog trainer, and i'm not asking anyone to >>>>>>>>>>>> like me >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know that I completely agree with finding another school >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>> be more welcoming and allowing actions to speak for themselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a >>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought if only because it will move along Valerie's career, but >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> fighting it simply because a victory might expose her to an >>>>>>>>>>>>> awkward >>>>>>>>>>>>> environment afterward is not good enough to let it go. A few >>>>>>>>>>>>> years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> sued a Chinese bus carrier after they gave me a hard time about >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> guide >>>>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>>>> on what became three consecutive occasions. On the first two >>>>>>>>>>>>> occasions >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> situation became a nuisance involving the police. I fought it >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully took my trips to and from New York from DC, but the >>>>>>>>>>>>> traveling >>>>>>>>>>>>> consisted of a lot of dirty looks and hateful muttering. On the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> third >>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt I was not even allowed to board the bus, but by then the >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> case >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> already well on its way to federal court. My point is that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>>> school will not learn from Valerie going away. Finding another >>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> still pursuing action with the current campus is one option, but >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope >>>>>>>>>>>>> something will become of this situation. I do not know Valerie >>>>>>>>>>>>> personally. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I assume she meets all the other qualifications associated with >>>>>>>>>>>>> enrollment >>>>>>>>>>>>> and that the only reason enrollment is being denied is that she >>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>> see. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it's an issue that needs to be rectified if for no other >>>>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the opportunity needs to exist for future blind applicants. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> know if my friendly little bus people would allow people to >>>>>>>>>>>>> board their >>>>>>>>>>>>> buses with service animals these days, but I know they'll at >>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> twice before saying "no." >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ewing >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >> com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >> ail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma >> il.com >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >> com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >> com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >> com >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenandnixon%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 07:21:11 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 03:21:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! In-Reply-To: References: <20100817030836.20952.22110@web3> <091DC56F544D4FA29B3E0105A12CF27C@YOURZVIRQM73LR> <0d6101cb4af8$fc6a7090$f74ec2cf@JenandNixon> Message-ID: Please do keep us updated on this. I have become very interested in your career progress, and am keeping my fingers crossed for you that you can get the school to see things your way. We're all rooting for you! ~Jewel On 9/3/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Hi, > > It's so irronic that i'm just reading these posts, because i was sort of > wondering where to go from here as far as the training carrer. I haven't > heard back from the guy i talked to at the NFB headquarters, though i need > to check my spam folder to make sure and email didn't get lost in there. > > As for the artificial hand: I know exactly what you're talking about. I > too have seen that on Animal Planet, and i could have kicked myself for not > thinking of it as well. it's a very good suggestion, i'd think. > As for anyone who works with dogs, I would love to pick your brains offlist, > to see about getting some ideas, as i will need them if i'm going to fight > the school on this. > > I also plan on finding some reputable dog training mailing lists to get on, > and see if i can't find, evena sighted person, who's willing to think > outside of the box when it comes to this. > > I will keep you all posted, And i think you for your comments. Thsi > seemingly random rediscussion of the topic has boosted my spirits on the > matter quite a bit. > > So, again, thank you, and I'm still allears to any more comments. > On Sep 2, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > >> I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up yet in regards >> to dog aggression. While it wouldn't be smart to touch a dog to see >> what it is doing, you *could* use an artificial hand to tst the dog. >> You know, like what they use in rescue shelters sometimes to test a >> dog's temperament? I know I've seen it on Animal Planet on one of >> those animal rescue shows...It's basically a plastic hand on a stick >> (the stick is like 3 feet long). You extend the hand and pet the dog >> with the hand. If the dog doesn't attack the hand, they are unlikely >> to attack you. However, you can tell if the dog doesn't like touch >> period, because the aggressive dogs will attack the hand...one dog on >> the show bit off two of the fingers of the plastic hand! This hand is >> used to pet the dog without worry of being bitten yourself, and is >> also used to pull food away from the dog while s/he is eating to test >> food aggression, and to pull away toys to test toy aggression. I think >> using a fake hand (I don't know the trainer term for it, but I know >> they use it with aggressive dog testing) would be very useful for a >> blind person testing for aggression. It would also come in handy >> teting a cat...I think I'd rather the plastic hand get scratched then >> my soon-to-be bloody hand! >> >> Just an idea that popped into my head, >> Jewel >> >> On 9/2/10, Jen&Nixon wrote: >>> Megan is correct, some dogs can exhibit silent cues, barring teeth, >>> averted >>> eyes, and sometimes raise their hairs before an oncoming attack, however, >>> once the attack starts, they will start to develop snarling and growling. >>> Hope those descriptions can help. >>> >>> >>> Jennifer McEachen and "Nixon" >>> Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc. >>> Alumni Association Board of Directors and secretary >>> jenandnixon at gmail.com / jmceachen at guidedogs.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Meghan Whalen >>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! >>> >>> Honestly, cane travel and dog training are not at all the same, and I >>> don't >>> think it is fare to be comparing the two. >>> >>> Dealing with an agressive dog who is capable of causing bodily harm when >>> you're just standing there, if you don't pick up on the visual queues >>> that >>> he's feeling threatened is different than coming up to a difficult to >>> figure >>> out obstacle with a cane. >>> >>> I don't think I'm making much sense here, so let me know if clarification >>> is >>> needed. >>> >>> Meghan >>> I'm >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jedi" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] update on dog training career. need help! >>> >>> >>>> By taking a sighted person along in aggressive dog or potentially >>>> aggressive dog situations, or by asking for such an accommodation in the >>>> classroom setting, you're basically reinforcing the notion that sight is >>>> required for getting feedback from an aggressive dog. That probably >>>> wouldn't be so as much in the real world post dog school, but the dog >>>> training school would definitely be problematic for that reason. It >>>> would >>>> be like saying that a blind person can be a cane travel teacher and >>>> monitor their student non-visually, only to ask for a sighted person to >>>> come along to monitor the student visually. Also, by asking for a >>>> sighted >>>> person to tag along, the issue of non-visual access to the training >>>> doesn't get pushed, creativity slows down, and the status quo remains. >>>> Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds counterintuitive to what you're trying >>>> to >>> >>>> advocate. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> When dealing with agressive dogs, i would wonder if it would be >>>>> altering >>>>> the program if i had someone who could see acompany me, just to tell me >>>>> what's going on visually. That wouldn't alter the program i would >>>>> think. >>>>> It would be no diferent than having a reader read tests. >>>> >>>>> If i were at a client's house, and there was an agressive dog, i could >>>>> inform the lcient that i was taking someone along with me, simply to >>>>> give >>> >>>>> me visual feedback so that i could assess the situation. >>>> >>>>> Am i wrong here? What do you guys think? >>>> >>>>> Thank you for your feedback. >>>> >>>>> Val >>>>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Jedi wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Ug. My brain! Sorry for all those typos folks. Bottom line is that the >>>>>> training itself may be fundamentally altered when a blind person gets >>>>>> involved, but that's not inherently bad and may benefit sighted >>>>>> students. >>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>> >>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>> Well, not being able to see might fundamentally alter the way the >>>>>>> training is done. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Blind cane >>>>>>> travel instructors are tained a little differently from sighted ones, >>>>>>> but having that alternative training available has revoluationized >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> cane travel field. Just some thoughts. >>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Jedi >>>> >>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>> Greetings all, >>>> >>>>>>>> I've just contacted the National Federation of the Blind >>>>>>>> headquarters, >>>>>>>> and was put in touch with Charlie Brown for the problem. I gave >>>>>>>> him >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> rundown of what i told you guys. >>>> >>>>>>>> Now, he asks to see the email that the president and i shared. >>>>>>>> Going >>>>>>>> to do that now, and see what he thinks. He watns to see if he "can >>>>>>>> push it a bit", given that i wish to start this program in the fall >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> 2011. Depending on what he thinks and what happens, i think, he >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> put me in touchwith someone who can help a bit more. >>>> >>>>>>>> The only thing that kind of worried me was when his concern about, >>>>>>>> wether being able to see would enterfeer with the fundalmental >>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>> of the program, since programs are allowed to offer reasonable >>>>>>>> accomidations, but don't necissarily have to alter their program for >>>>>>>> you. >>>> >>>>>>>> Wish me luck, and I will keep you posted. >>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Justin Young wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>> Val! >>>> >>>>>>>>> Great attitude to have! Never give up on the dream! >>>>>>>>> Great luck and yes please keep us all informed. >>>> >>>>>>>>> Justin >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/15/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, just to be clear, this school does not train guide dogs. >>>>>>>>>> ittrains >>>>>>>>>> trainers to train your everyday house dog pet. >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Because graduation doesn't qualify you as a professional dog >>>>>>>>>> trainer >>> >>>>>>>>>> in some >>>>>>>>>> dog trainer organizations, i plan to take a 250 question test that >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> qualify me as a professional dog trainer. After that, I do plan >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> training various service dogs. >>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are right in that, even though it's not a guide dog training >>>>>>>>>> school, the >>>>>>>>>> school shoudl consider: what if a blind person gets a >>>>>>>>>> confrontational pet >>>>>>>>>> dog. Because it's not a guide dog, this is more likely to happen >>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>>> around 2 million people rescue dogs a year in ameria. >>>> >>>>>>>>>> I love reading what you all have to say, and tomorrow i plan to >>>>>>>>>> contact the >>>>>>>>>> national headquarters. I will keep you all posted. >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you all so much for your support in this. Right now, my own >>>>>>>>>> family is >>>>>>>>>> hesitant to support me, which shouldn't be suprising but is >>>>>>>>>> nevertheless. >>>>>>>>>> It helps to have the support from the NFB. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Keep the comments coming, if you have any, and inthe mean time >>>>>>>>>> i'll >>>>>>>>>> kep you >>>>>>>>>> guys posted. Who knows, there may be someone who's thought about >>>>>>>>>> becoming a >>>>>>>>>> dog trainer out there but hasn't due to their blindness.On Aug 15, >>>>>>>>>> 2010, at >>>>>>>>>> 11:33 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Val and all, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think it's pretty crazy that some of the worst discrimination >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> face is from fields dedicated to improving the lives of blind >>>>>>>>>>> people, >>>>>>>>>>> such as O&M teaching and guide dog training. The underlying >>>>>>>>>>> attitude >>>>>>>>>>> is that blind people should be recipients of specialized >>>>>>>>>>> services, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> cannot be the service providers. I think this battle is even more >>>>>>>>>>> important to fight because it is unacceptable in my mind that >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> who train guide dogs for the blind feel the need to discriminate >>>>>>>>>>> against blind trainers. For that matter, how does this school >>>>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>>>> its blind students to defend themselves in situations where their >>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>> may be attacked by another animal that is "aggressive and >>>>>>>>>>> confrontational"? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Val, >>>>>>>>>>>> I really love your attitude. I'm not going to make people like >>>>>>>>>>>> me >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> what I want to do for women, so I'm just going to go to school >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> becomea social worker for women in battered women's shelters. >>>>>>>>>>>> So >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> if people say I can't stqand a cowering woman and a big violent >>>>>>>>>>>> guy? >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm tiny, really tiny, and I think short people have pretty big >>>>>>>>>>>> brains, mind you. This goes to show that it's all about one's >>>>>>>>>>>> attitude. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/14/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I also do not agree with cuting my losses to this school, >>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> bcause >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the aftermath, for a couple of reasons. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. I've looked into other dog training schools, and this one >>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> the best. it offers hands-on training over a lot of subjects >>>>>>>>>>>>> related to >>>>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>>>> training as well as dog care such as neutrition, health >>>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> breeds, >>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If i asked a sighted person to find a carreer that they >>>>>>>>>>>>> liked, then >>>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>>> a school that would help them achieve that job, then told them, >>>>>>>>>>>>> "now >>>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>> that school, and forget about it. find the second best.", they >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>> likely tell me to take a long walk off of a short peer. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sighted people have professors that may not like them in >>>>>>>>>>>>> universities, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> that does not mean that they should switch classes. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Even after my schooling, i'm going to be faced with people who >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> approve of my job vhoice, and even more who will not allow me >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> train >>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs due to blindness. I might as well get used to it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going into the school to gain the knowledge and foundation >>>>>>>>>>>>> that i >>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>> to become a successful dog trainer, and i'm not asking anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> like me >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know that I completely agree with finding another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be more welcoming and allowing actions to speak for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought if only because it will move along Valerie's career, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fighting it simply because a victory might expose her to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> awkward >>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment afterward is not good enough to let it go. A few >>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sued a Chinese bus carrier after they gave me a hard time >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on what became three consecutive occasions. On the first two >>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation became a nuisance involving the police. I fought it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully took my trips to and from New York from DC, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> traveling >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisted of a lot of dirty looks and hateful muttering. On >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> third >>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt I was not even allowed to board the bus, but by then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> case >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already well on its way to federal court. My point is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school will not learn from Valerie going away. Finding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still pursuing action with the current campus is one option, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something will become of this situation. I do not know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Valerie >>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I assume she meets all the other qualifications associated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enrollment >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that the only reason enrollment is being denied is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> see. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it's an issue that needs to be rectified if for no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the opportunity needs to exist for future blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> applicants. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if my friendly little bus people would allow people to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> board their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buses with service animals these days, but I know they'll at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> twice before saying "no." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >>> com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm >>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma >>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >>> com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>> >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >>> com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. >>> com >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jenandnixon%40gmail. >>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Fri Sep 3 15:37:05 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:37:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] For Braille Note Users: Translating Braille note Documents? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01cb4b7d$e0e6d310$a2b47930$@org> Hello, I have translated files in both directions using the translator menu. Just choose translate to text. Then when it asks you for a name for the file, make sure you put in the file name and .txt . You can check what's in the file before you move it anywhere. You don't have to export it either if you save it on a thumb drive or other external storage device. It's much easier working with any of your files if you store them externally. Another option is to read and translate them with Openbook or Kurtzweil if you have either of those options available. Hope this helps. Regards, Maryann Migliorelli From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 16:59:02 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 11:59:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] VictorStream with Bookshare References: Message-ID: <7DE584B7CC48414F97699D7DAA37E250@Dezman> Jewel, For BookShare books, they are simply zipped files now so you would just unzip them on your computer either in DAISY or BRF braille format. If you connect your stream with SD card to the computer via the long USB cable, it should recognize as a mass storage device and you can copy the unzipped file or files to the appropriate folder. Hope this helps. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: [nabs-l] VictorStream with Bookshare > Hey guys, > Jewel again. As I said, I just got my VictorStream Reader. I have it > authorized for RFBD and am working on the authorization for BARD. I > even have NFB-Newsline podables going on it right now, and I've got > music on it, as well as mp3 files of DVS movies...all that was pretty > easy (though I'm still working on getting the RFBD books to play... > > The next step I'm working on is Bookshare books. The VictorStream > audio tutorial seems to be a bit outdated. I started listening to it, > and it told me to get the Unpacking tool through "Download Tools" > after logging in...well, that page doesn't have that link! Where do I > get the Unpacking tool for Bookshare books? Has anyone figured this > out and can you give me step-by-step directions for it? I was really > hoping to just do it through the audio tutorial, but that seems > outdated or some such... > > ~Jewel > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From gera1027 at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 15:40:23 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 10:40:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How 2 erase posts from Podbean.com Message-ID: <002c01cb4c47$7f7341c0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: Anyone of you use podbean.com to post podcasts? I didn't know how the site worked, thus made the mistake of having the 2 first posts without info on what they're about; I already deleted the 2 associated podcats from within podbean's Media Center manager but can't find anywhere to erase the two posts I'm talking about which are empty! Any ideas? Gerardo From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 18:29:22 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 14:29:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast Message-ID: <30796CB3-ED59-4D7A-BB14-7847A3819FF8@gmail.com> Hi check out my new podcast at www.jkenn337.podbean.com Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 18:36:47 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:36:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast References: <30796CB3-ED59-4D7A-BB14-7847A3819FF8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003201cb4c60$244dc900$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> I've heard it about the Keysoft and Keynote gold synthesizer and it brought back old memories of when I used Keysoft for my computer related things way before I knew of Windows in the early 90s. Great job! Gerardo From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Sep 4 18:39:43 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast In-Reply-To: <30796CB3-ED59-4D7A-BB14-7847A3819FF8@gmail.com> References: <30796CB3-ED59-4D7A-BB14-7847A3819FF8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Josh: I'm currently running a full podcast network and looking for shows to add. Please drop me a line off list if you wanna join. Thanks. Jorge On Sep 4, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > check out my new podcast at www.jkenn337.podbean.com > > > Josh Kennedy > jkenn337 at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 19:07:54 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 12:07:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs membership september conference Call: Scholastic success (for high school, college and graduate students) Message-ID: Hello Fellow Students, Are you in the throws of scholastic rigger? Currently   pondering on questions about classes you are taking and how to navigate them successfully?                  Perhaps you are a high school student going through the frustrations of “lowered expectations”, such as dealing with P.E. teachers that won't let you take part in sports, an English/ math teacher that is not pushing you towards the best of your ability, or any other number of frustrations, while you are working towards your application and attendance in College/University.Maybe, you are already enrolled in higher education and are trying to figure out how accommodations are dealt with differently from what you are used to. Potentially this includes issues with navigating campus, as well as the “red tape” of higher education. Or, on an off chance, you fall into a third group, where you are trying to pursue the seemingly over looked area of how graduate education and expectations- dealing with the GRE’s and other substantive information, is different than navigating through campus as an Undergraduate… If any of the above situations resonate with you, or if you are just a student trying to learn how to be better prepared… This call is for YOU! Call topic- How to navigate and succeed in higher education  Why?- will give students in the appropriate educational  stage a chance to talk with someone who  is either going through what you are going through, or someone who will have just gone through what you are going through and  will speak to the ability to be successful in school as a blind person. Where?- (712) 775-7100 and entering pass code257963. When?- Sunday, September 12, 6p.m.  EST. This call will be divided intothree mini-topics with three different guest speakers; High school, college/ university and  Graduate School. A question and answer session will follow. The times allotted to each specific “mini-topic” will be adjusted as “popularity and need” dictate. part of the call. As always, we  appreciate and look forward to your questions, ideas and participation. Let us work together towards successfully changing what it means to be on terms of equality with other fellow students! Best Wishes, -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 20:39:51 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:39:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs membership september conference call: Scholastic success (for non-traditional students) Message-ID: Hello Fellow Students, Are you in the throws of scholastic rigger? Currently   pondering on questions about classes you are taking and how to navigate them successfully? Do you consider yourself a “non-traditional” student, and perhaps feel that you deal with a slightly different gambit of issues than other college/ university students? The NABS Membership Committee will be hosting a membership call for non-traditional blind students to get together and discuss issues and get to know each other. The call will feature an individual who self identifies as a non-traditional student, and believes that age is but a number and is taking their own path to achieving their academic goals and dreams.  The call is directed at any and all non- traditional nabsters. What? - Successfully Navigating Higher Education as a blind “non-traditional student” Where? - (712)775-7100 Please enter access code- 257963# When? - Sunday, September 12th. 7:30 EST. The length of the call will depend mainly on the number of participants within the call. The call is scheduled any where from 30 Mins, to an hour.  We look forward to speaking with you at that point. As always, we appreciate and look forward to your questions, ideas and participation. Let us work together towards successfully changing what it means to be on terms of equality with other fellow students! Best Wishes, NABS Membership Committee -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 22:27:07 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 16:27:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school Message-ID: Hi all, At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of special services that parents often have to fight school districts to get for their kids in public school. These special services range from Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction are top priorities, but what about the other services? I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you think? Arielle From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 22:46:34 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 16:46:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: First off, kindergarten was a very visual ting for me. I had to have a TVI help me learn Braille, which was good, but there were visual things in kindergarten I never would've learned. I didn't understand about colors until first grade. That's when Mary O'neill's book, Hailstones and Halibut Bones totally brought colors to life in more ways than just seeing them. I learned that marshmallows were white, grandmother's curls were grey, etc. Every color had something to tell us, and that's something special I took with me in elementary school. I wrote and read Braille throughout my elementary years, but later on, the textbooks in private school didn't come on time, especially the ones in religious studies. I never had a morality book. In high school, again, no textbooks on time. AS far as unnecessary services, I was forced to have a behavioral technician follow me around. That was because I had an issue beyond blindness that stemmed from blindness. I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, which later turned out false. I left school with no friends but maybe a handful and in private school, I wasn't allowed to do much. In community college, there was no wayI could get aids and readers for my music classes, and then the mental health issues came up again. I was later diagnosed with bipolar with border line personality disorder. I was raised in a really cruel environment with little accountability on my part and the feeling that my blindness was a punishment for my sins or the sins of my mother. It was kind of sad. I do not believe that a behavior aid was necessary. OT was necessary because of the isuesbeyond blindness. I had to learn how to get this stuff away from me, to understand thiissue beyond blindness that stemmed from bad parenting. I have no idea why this all happened. Now, I'm at CCB, and they're doing their best to help me cope with theissues beyond blindness, which have left me emotional and unable to do so much with my life as far as employment goes. I am attempting to look at jobs, but still. Beth On 9/4/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children > was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all > say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members > of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of > listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind > children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any > organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of > special services that parents often have to fight school districts to > get for their kids in public school. These special services range from > Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to > O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to > help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like > occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I > take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always > wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping > blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them > may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that > quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction > are top priorities, but what about the other services? > > I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew > up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, > inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you > guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with > classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of > help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten > in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and > then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From > what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be > notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide > but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if > not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent > cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have > someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI > was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in > the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm > therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids > in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering > verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own > education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the > luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow > what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively > gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow > classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I > can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in > the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help > them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you > think? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From rob_blach at hotmail.com Sat Sep 4 22:58:08 2010 From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 18:58:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is a very interesting topic. As we all know personal aids are often unqualified to be aids and are sually hired by the district to do other jobs and then are replaced as aids (sometimes even cleaning ladies). My education was horrific from k-5 until I finally left the district and then finally learned bBraille and O&M. A lot of the issue is not the school district lacking to provide the services but the lack of qualified professionals and the lack of knologe of the school district to find the proper professionals. Parents also need to know what their child in particular needs and make sure they attend the IPE/CSE/ESE meeting depending on which state that parent may reside in. On the issue of other services such as PT and OT a lot of us might have other disabilities or muscular issues and may need these services and may even need them adapted cbecause we can not see. I've always thought that maybe there should be another department for the blind and related services bbecause generally the special ed department (called different things in different states) may not understand the needed services. Rob Blachowicz -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arielle Silverman" Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:27 PM To: Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school > Hi all, > > At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children > was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all > say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members > of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of > listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind > children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any > organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of > special services that parents often have to fight school districts to > get for their kids in public school. These special services range from > Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to > O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to > help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like > occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I > take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always > wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping > blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them > may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that > quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction > are top priorities, but what about the other services? > > I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew > up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, > inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you > guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with > classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of > help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten > in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and > then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From > what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be > notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide > but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if > not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent > cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have > someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI > was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in > the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm > therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids > in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering > verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own > education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the > luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow > what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively > gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow > classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I > can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in > the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help > them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you > think? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com > From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 23:02:25 2010 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 19:02:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school References: Message-ID: <49D842793B544C38AF4734594C919C5C@Espy> When I was in elementary school, I had an aid throughout grades k-8. In the primary grades, the aid acted as my sighted guide (and assisted me with Phys Ed). They also worked in conjunction with my TBVI. All of my aids learned Braille, so they transcribed printed materials into Braille and visa versa. I did not have a lot of technology in elementary school, so used the Perkins Brailler for the majority of my home and schoolwork. The only computer training I received (at least until 6th grade) was using an apple computer with very large disks and the echo speech synthesizer. Then in sixth grade, I received a PC and other assistive technology. In 6-8 grade, my time with the aid was shortened to half a day and she would be there only if I needed her for describing math problems, or assisting me with science experiments. In high school, the aid acted solely as a Braille transcriber. I rarely even saw her. I was the first and only blind student in my elementary school. No other blind students have attended the elementary school since then. I was also the first blind student in my high school. Several blind students have attended since I graduated. I think having an aid was essential to my education. The teachers had no idea of how to teach a totally blind student, and the aid assisted them with doing this. Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school > First off, kindergarten was a very visual ting for me. I had to have > a TVI help me learn Braille, which was good, but there were visual > things in kindergarten I never would've learned. I didn't understand > about colors until first grade. That's when Mary O'neill's book, > Hailstones and Halibut Bones totally brought colors to life in more > ways than just seeing them. I learned that marshmallows were white, > grandmother's curls were grey, etc. Every color had something to tell > us, and that's something special I took with me in elementary school. > I wrote and read Braille throughout my elementary years, but later on, > the textbooks in private school didn't come on time, especially the > ones in religious studies. I never had a morality book. In high > school, again, no textbooks on time. AS far as unnecessary services, > I was forced to have a behavioral technician follow me around. That > was because I had an issue beyond blindness that stemmed from > blindness. I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, which later > turned out false. I left school with no friends but maybe a handful > and in private school, I wasn't allowed to do much. In community > college, there was no wayI could get aids and readers for my music > classes, and then the mental health issues came up again. I was later > diagnosed with bipolar with border line personality disorder. I was > raised in a really cruel environment with little accountability on my > part and the feeling that my blindness was a punishment for my sins or > the sins of my mother. It was kind of sad. I do not believe that a > behavior aid was necessary. OT was necessary because of the > isuesbeyond blindness. I had to learn how to get this stuff away from > me, to understand thiissue beyond blindness that stemmed from bad > parenting. I have no idea why this all happened. Now, I'm at CCB, > and they're doing their best to help me cope with theissues beyond > blindness, which have left me emotional and unable to do so much with > my life as far as employment goes. I am attempting to look at jobs, > but still. > Beth > > On 9/4/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children >> was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all >> say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members >> of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of >> listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind >> children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any >> organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of >> special services that parents often have to fight school districts to >> get for their kids in public school. These special services range from >> Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to >> O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to >> help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like >> occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I >> take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always >> wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping >> blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them >> may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that >> quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction >> are top priorities, but what about the other services? >> >> I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew >> up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, >> inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you >> guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with >> classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of >> help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten >> in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and >> then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From >> what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be >> notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide >> but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if >> not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent >> cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have >> someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI >> was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in >> the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm >> therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids >> in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering >> verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own >> education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the >> luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow >> what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively >> gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow >> classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I >> can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in >> the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help >> them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you >> think? >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5423 (20100904) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5423 (20100904) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 23:22:55 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 18:22:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Aids in school and other services Message-ID: The aids I had in school helped me by brailing my class work and the other way around, went with me from class to class as well as helped me with PE and worked with my education counselor who taught me braille. I also had OT as well. I feel that having an aid helped me because I don't think I would have had the opertoonity to learn as much as I did if they were not able to help me. Rania, From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Sep 4 23:29:23 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 19:29:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> Since I spent my first few years in a school for the blind, I don't know about 1/2nd grade. When I started in 4th grade they, the DOE gave me a para who I've had until now, entering 9th grade. And although the para has been nice to me, I don't consider it a needed service, as it sometimes blocks students from helping me and makes me a little more isolated I think. I wouldn't say that it has been completely without its use, specially in doing quick diagrams, and helping my TBI when she was overloaded with next-day or even give-in-half an hour work, but its not something I need personally to survive inside the actual classroom, as all that info I can obtain from my classmates. Actually what I've done is with my para, agreed that basically all they do is drop me off at class, and get me whatever materials I need, if any. Usually I sit with my friends, so they read the board to me, and give me descriptions whenever needed. I had a teacher get mad at me because of it once, but I don't consider it anything to get mad about--since my friends and I only talk about work, and usually never make small talk unless we know we're close to or completely done with the work, plus it gives me a little social skill in the class, and not make me look like a hopeless kid who can't do without services from the state. But now my parra knows and agrees with me too. No complaint, just saying its not absolutely needed. Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 4, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children > was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all > say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members > of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of > listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind > children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any > organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of > special services that parents often have to fight school districts to > get for their kids in public school. These special services range from > Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to > O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to > help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like > occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I > take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always > wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping > blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them > may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that > quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction > are top priorities, but what about the other services? > > I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew > up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, > inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you > guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with > classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of > help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten > in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and > then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From > what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be > notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide > but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if > not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent > cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have > someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI > was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in > the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm > therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids > in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering > verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own > education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the > luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow > what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively > gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow > classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I > can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in > the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help > them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you > think? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 00:26:47 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 19:26:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> References: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi. This is a really interesting topic. >From Kindergarten up through high school I had a TVI and a Para and a mobility instructor. They did not hover over me. They brailled and scanned things as needed, and they were always there if I needed help with anything, but they encouraged me to be independent. Looking back on it, I think they would have agreed with the NFB philosophy. My TVI started me with jaws and open book when I was in 6th grade, and I had been given a braille light when I was in 3rd grade. I loved my TVIs and my paras. They were always very close to me, and I think I could build a relationship with them because I respected them very much. I had 1 hour of vision instruction(braille, technology, calling Freedom Scientific) everyday. I'm not kidding about the last one. Lol! Then I had 2 hours or so of mobility every other week. I wish I could have had more mobility looking back, but that was my IEP. My para sat with me in math class everyday, and she was very useful. She took notes for me, so she could take down the graphs and things. Beyond that I never had my aids in class with me. It was just never necessary. They offered to walk me to class my first week in high school, and I think I took advantage of that, but usually, I, like others have mentioned, let my friends describe things like movies and the board to me. I never asked them to do this, but it became an automatic that they did. I think this is really nice, and I believe that they would not have done this if I had had an adult helping me with everything. I agree that it makes the "Blind person" less approachable. I met one of my really good friends because she offered to help me with a project in a gifted class that involved looking at things through some kind of microskope. I can't remember if my aide was there or not at that point. After reading these few responses I think it really depends on the different needs of the student in question how much help they need. I believe that students should not have their paras or whatever hanging around them all the time because it becomes much harder to build social skills. It goes without saying that mobility instruction and braille learning should begin at an early age, but other than that, I think it depends on the level of the student. That's why they make IEPs after all--for the individual. I also think it's important to let the blind student be as independent as soon as possible. I think more goals involving greater independence should be worked into more IEPs. I am by no means an educator, so if you think I'm crazy, it's ok. I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about. Lol! On 9/4/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Since I spent my first few years in a school for the blind, I don't know > about 1/2nd grade. > When I started in 4th grade they, the DOE gave me a para who I've had until > now, entering 9th grade. > And although the para has been nice to me, I don't consider it a needed > service, as it sometimes blocks students from helping me and makes me a > little more isolated I think. > I wouldn't say that it has been completely without its use, specially in > doing quick diagrams, and helping my TBI when she was overloaded with > next-day or even give-in-half an hour work, but its not something I need > personally to survive inside the actual classroom, as all that info I can > obtain from my classmates. > > Actually what I've done is with my para, agreed that basically all they do > is drop me off at class, and get me whatever materials I need, if any. > > Usually I sit with my friends, so they read the board to me, and give me > descriptions whenever needed. > > > I had a teacher get mad at me because of it once, but I don't consider it > anything to get mad about--since my friends and I only talk about work, and > usually never make small talk unless we know we're close to or completely > done with the work, plus it gives me a little social skill in the class, and > not make me look like a hopeless kid who can't do without services from the > state. > > But now my parra knows and agrees with me too. > > > No complaint, just saying its not absolutely needed. > > Jorge > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 4, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children >> was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all >> say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members >> of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of >> listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind >> children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any >> organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of >> special services that parents often have to fight school districts to >> get for their kids in public school. These special services range from >> Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to >> O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to >> help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like >> occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I >> take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always >> wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping >> blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them >> may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that >> quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction >> are top priorities, but what about the other services? >> >> I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew >> up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, >> inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you >> guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with >> classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of >> help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten >> in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and >> then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From >> what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be >> notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide >> but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if >> not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent >> cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have >> someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI >> was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in >> the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm >> therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids >> in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering >> verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own >> education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the >> luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow >> what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively >> gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow >> classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I >> can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in >> the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help >> them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you >> think? >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 5 01:15:42 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:15:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces Message-ID: Hi all, I have a similar question to Kerri's. I grew up with O&M service since elementary school and got some through the Dept for the blind here. But still struggle with some areas of O&M. How do you navigate crowds? For instance a crowd gathering for a picnic or event. Its noisy and I can't use hearing as usual to navigate. What about crowded vacinities such as a mall or train station? Do you just ask for directions and navigate best you can? In my experience tactile landmarks may or may not be touchable in a crowd because people are all around them. How do you hold your cane in a crowd? Next question concerns open spaces. I have tunnel vision but cannot always use it depending on lighting. I also want to give suggestions to my friends who are more blind then me. What tips can you share for open spaces where there may not be something to shoreline with your cane? I use my vision if available, tactile landmarks and echos. Sometimes where you're walking may be away from or toward a smell which is helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel? Its so easy to get turned around. Echos only seem to help when I'm near enough to the building. Open spaces such as the campus quad or some parts of a mall are examples of open spaces like this. Unfortunately some blind people I've talked to believe open spaces including parking lots are places to avoid. That stems from low expectations and just not knowing the alternative techniques others use. Look forward to your responses. Ashley From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Sep 5 01:27:55 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 21:27:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CF27D53-EDD4-463B-87D8-DF0F2710BF4B@mac.com> As far as crowds, I get directions and navigate best I can, and if I'm with someone, try to follow as best as possible. Also, I use pencil grip around crowds, which is very useful because it provides info without tripping anyone. Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 4, 2010, at 9:15 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a similar question to Kerri's. > I grew up with O&M service since elementary school and got some through the Dept for the blind here. But still struggle with some areas of O&M. > > How do you navigate crowds? For instance a crowd gathering for a picnic or event. Its noisy and I can't use hearing as usual to navigate. What about crowded vacinities such as a mall or train station? Do you just ask for directions and navigate best you can? In my experience tactile landmarks may or may not be touchable in a crowd because people are all around them. How do you hold your cane in a crowd? > > Next question concerns open spaces. I have tunnel vision but cannot always use it depending on lighting. I also want to give suggestions to my friends who are more blind then me. > What tips can you share for open spaces where there may not be something to shoreline with your cane? I use my vision if available, tactile landmarks and echos. > Sometimes where you're walking may be away from or toward a smell which is helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel? Its so easy to get turned around. > Echos only seem to help when I'm near enough to the building. Open spaces such as the campus quad or some parts of a mall are examples of open spaces like this. Unfortunately some blind people I've talked to believe open spaces including parking lots are places to avoid. That stems from low expectations and just not knowing the alternative techniques others use. > > Look forward to your responses. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 5 01:39:16 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:39:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle, Great topic! In elementary school and my last year of high school I was at a public school with a vision resource room. They are rare in the country; its a room where a few TVIs were stationed and several blind students from the county went to this school although the majority were mainstreamed from the beginning. I spent a half day with the TVI in the resource room if I remember correctly. Then I was mainstreamed in my home school and saw the TVI most days of the week for a short time. At this point the TVI was itinerant and traveled to several schools. While mainstreamed I received accomodations including alternative forms of handouts, alternative formats of textbooks and extended time on tests. I grew up reading and writing braille from second grade; I started reading print. Growing up I did not have aides. I think students need O&M instruction, braille instruction and technology instruction. Beyond that other services such as Ot and speech therapy are individualized and should be determined in the IEP meeting. In elementary school the only tech training was for typing on an Apple computer. All my assignments even homework, were done by hand in large print or on the perkins and my TVI transcribed them. In fifth or sixth grade I received a Braille n' speak which was my first piece of technology I took to school and used in the classroom. I'm really glad to hear some students such as Julie had jaws and a scanning program. I did not get this instruction in school. I learned about jaws and Openbook in late high school years and in college through someone from the Dept for the blind. I also received mobility instruction but the quality could have been better. O&M was given for an hour or two every other week. It helped me learn some basics of O&M such as cane techniques, orientation to school, soliciting assistance in stores and traveling on simple streets. But we did not do anything complex nor did we cover public transportation. Overall I was fortunate to have good services in school and feel sad to hear other students have to fight for something like braille texts and handouts when I had them automatically. Good topic. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:27 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school > Hi all, > > At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children > was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all > say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members > of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of > listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind > children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any > organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of > special services that parents often have to fight school districts to > get for their kids in public school. These special services range from > Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to > O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to > help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like > occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I > take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always > wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping > blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them > may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that > quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction > are top priorities, but what about the other services? > > I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew > up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, > inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you > guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with > classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of > help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten > in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and > then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From > what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be > notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide > but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if > not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent > cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have > someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI > was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in > the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm > therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids > in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering > verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own > education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the > luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow > what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively > gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow > classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I > can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in > the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help > them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you > think? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 01:45:10 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 18:45:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ashley and list I’ll first speak to cane technique. If I’m in a crowd, I use pencil grip because it’s best for insuring that you don’t trip people, you don’t get your cane broken, and I find that you only are going to need to know what’s a foot or so ahead of you if even that much as you are not traveling very fast anyway. In open spaces I use an open palm grip (assuming that the cane in use is a long white cane)I find that by wrapping my hand around the handle of the cane with my palm facing skywardas the technique is utilized, will allow me to use the lenth of my cane and pick up objects around me and travel at my natural pace. As orientating goes, If I am looking for something I might ask for directions,. If I am in a mall, or airportor something like that, I mayalso ask if there is a landmarknear my desired location (“ is there a restaurantor some other type of land mark near the restroom?” “or if I find pete’s Coffie, have I gone too far past the rest room?”) If I’m not sure and I think I’m near the area, I can ask another personif I am going the right direction by repeting the initial question I probably asked at first “excuse me, I am looking for the rest room. Might I be going in the right direction?” or “is it this way?” and point in the direction that I think it may be. I think you have the right idea as it relates to using echoes and tactal landmarks. I think there are probably ten or twenty different ways people may go about it and I am interested to hear what folks have to saytoo! Darian On 9/4/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a similar question to Kerri's. > I grew up with O&M service since elementary school and got some through the > Dept for the blind here. But still struggle with some areas of O&M. > > How do you navigate crowds? For instance a crowd gathering for a picnic or > event. Its noisy and I can't use hearing as usual to navigate. What about > crowded vacinities such as a mall or train station? Do you just ask for > directions and navigate best you can? In my experience tactile landmarks > may or may not be touchable in a crowd because people are all around them. > How do you hold your cane in a crowd? > > Next question concerns open spaces. I have tunnel vision but cannot always > use it depending on lighting. I also want to give suggestions to my friends > who are more blind then me. > What tips can you share for open spaces where there may not be something to > shoreline with your cane? I use my vision if available, tactile landmarks > and echos. > Sometimes where you're walking may be away from or toward a smell which is > helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel? Its so easy to get > turned around. > Echos only seem to help when I'm near enough to the building. Open spaces > such as the campus quad or some parts of a mall are examples of open spaces > like this. Unfortunately some blind people I've talked to believe open > spaces including parking lots are places to avoid. That stems from low > expectations and just not knowing the alternative techniques others use. > > Look forward to your responses. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 5 02:16:58 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 22:16:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces References: Message-ID: Darian, Thanks. There's many ideas to this. Traveling indoors such as a mall or airport probably is easier for most of us because there's lots of people to ask and some of them may be traveling in the same direction as you. Also its my experience that indoors has more landmarks since its a defined space with walls. But outside you may just have concrete all around you or asfault if its a parking lot. When at George Mason University the quad area where students gather for speakers or informally to chat is an example of an open space. Branching off it are sidewalks going to various buildings. On one side is the Johnson center which is a kind of student union and multi purpose facility. I'm not a student there now but do remember the layout and how frustrating it could be. All you could feel with the cane were bricks on the ground. You could hear echos depending on where you were in this space but it wasn't too helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel without veering? Sometimes a crack in the sidewalk can help. But often its hard to find anything to maintain a line of travel. Lookforward to others responses. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces Ashley and list I’ll first speak to cane technique. If I’m in a crowd, I use pencil grip because it’s best for insuring that you don’t trip people, you don’t get your cane broken, and I find that you only are going to need to know what’s a foot or so ahead of you if even that much as you are not traveling very fast anyway. In open spaces I use an open palm grip (assuming that the cane in use is a long white cane)I find that by wrapping my hand around the handle of the cane with my palm facing skywardas the technique is utilized, will allow me to use the lenth of my cane and pick up objects around me and travel at my natural pace. As orientating goes, If I am looking for something I might ask for directions,. If I am in a mall, or airportor something like that, I mayalso ask if there is a landmarknear my desired location (“ is there a restaurantor some other type of land mark near the restroom?” “or if I find pete’s Coffie, have I gone too far past the rest room?”) If I’m not sure and I think I’m near the area, I can ask another personif I am going the right direction by repeting the initial question I probably asked at first “excuse me, I am looking for the rest room. Might I be going in the right direction?” or “is it this way?” and point in the direction that I think it may be. I think you have the right idea as it relates to using echoes and tactal landmarks. I think there are probably ten or twenty different ways people may go about it and I am interested to hear what folks have to saytoo! Darian On 9/4/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a similar question to Kerri's. > I grew up with O&M service since elementary school and got some through > the > Dept for the blind here. But still struggle with some areas of O&M. > > How do you navigate crowds? For instance a crowd gathering for a picnic > or > event. Its noisy and I can't use hearing as usual to navigate. What > about > crowded vacinities such as a mall or train station? Do you just ask for > directions and navigate best you can? In my experience tactile landmarks > may or may not be touchable in a crowd because people are all around them. > How do you hold your cane in a crowd? > > Next question concerns open spaces. I have tunnel vision but cannot > always > use it depending on lighting. I also want to give suggestions to my > friends > who are more blind then me. > What tips can you share for open spaces where there may not be something > to > shoreline with your cane? I use my vision if available, tactile landmarks > and echos. > Sometimes where you're walking may be away from or toward a smell which is > helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel? Its so easy to > get > turned around. > Echos only seem to help when I'm near enough to the building. Open spaces > such as the campus quad or some parts of a mall are examples of open > spaces > like this. Unfortunately some blind people I've talked to believe open > spaces including parking lots are places to avoid. That stems from low > expectations and just not knowing the alternative techniques others use. > > Look forward to your responses. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 03:25:15 2010 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo ) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 20:25:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> Message-ID: Hello all, I had paraproes in some of my classes in high school to help me take notes. I did take my own notes too. I was in a resource room once a day and during that time I would work on Braille. I did not learn Braille intill high school. I used large print books and materials because I could see enough than. I used a cctv in some of my classes. I used jaws in school for a typing class I took. I got om twice a week. I did not know of the nfb during my growing up years intill I graduated from high school. I got some opporaties but I was held back in others. Like they did not think I needed to learn math or take English classes. I have struggled in college. I had to use tutors and real classes. I hope I helped in a way. Becky -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school Hi. This is a really interesting topic. >From Kindergarten up through high school I had a TVI and a Para and a mobility instructor. They did not hover over me. They brailled and scanned things as needed, and they were always there if I needed help with anything, but they encouraged me to be independent. Looking back on it, I think they would have agreed with the NFB philosophy. My TVI started me with jaws and open book when I was in 6th grade, and I had been given a braille light when I was in 3rd grade. I loved my TVIs and my paras. They were always very close to me, and I think I could build a relationship with them because I respected them very much. I had 1 hour of vision instruction(braille, technology, calling Freedom Scientific) everyday. I'm not kidding about the last one. Lol! Then I had 2 hours or so of mobility every other week. I wish I could have had more mobility looking back, but that was my IEP. My para sat with me in math class everyday, and she was very useful. She took notes for me, so she could take down the graphs and things. Beyond that I never had my aids in class with me. It was just never necessary. They offered to walk me to class my first week in high school, and I think I took advantage of that, but usually, I, like others have mentioned, let my friends describe things like movies and the board to me. I never asked them to do this, but it became an automatic that they did. I think this is really nice, and I believe that they would not have done this if I had had an adult helping me with everything. I agree that it makes the "Blind person" less approachable. I met one of my really good friends because she offered to help me with a project in a gifted class that involved looking at things through some kind of microskope. I can't remember if my aide was there or not at that point. After reading these few responses I think it really depends on the different needs of the student in question how much help they need. I believe that students should not have their paras or whatever hanging around them all the time because it becomes much harder to build social skills. It goes without saying that mobility instruction and braille learning should begin at an early age, but other than that, I think it depends on the level of the student. That's why they make IEPs after all--for the individual. I also think it's important to let the blind student be as independent as soon as possible. I think more goals involving greater independence should be worked into more IEPs. I am by no means an educator, so if you think I'm crazy, it's ok. I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about. Lol! On 9/4/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Since I spent my first few years in a school for the blind, I don't know > about 1/2nd grade. > When I started in 4th grade they, the DOE gave me a para who I've had until > now, entering 9th grade. > And although the para has been nice to me, I don't consider it a needed > service, as it sometimes blocks students from helping me and makes me a > little more isolated I think. > I wouldn't say that it has been completely without its use, specially in > doing quick diagrams, and helping my TBI when she was overloaded with > next-day or even give-in-half an hour work, but its not something I need > personally to survive inside the actual classroom, as all that info I can > obtain from my classmates. > > Actually what I've done is with my para, agreed that basically all they do > is drop me off at class, and get me whatever materials I need, if any. > > Usually I sit with my friends, so they read the board to me, and give me > descriptions whenever needed. > > > I had a teacher get mad at me because of it once, but I don't consider it > anything to get mad about--since my friends and I only talk about work, and > usually never make small talk unless we know we're close to or completely > done with the work, plus it gives me a little social skill in the class, and > not make me look like a hopeless kid who can't do without services from the > state. > > But now my parra knows and agrees with me too. > > > No complaint, just saying its not absolutely needed. > > Jorge > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 4, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children >> was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all >> say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members >> of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of >> listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind >> children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any >> organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of >> special services that parents often have to fight school districts to >> get for their kids in public school. These special services range from >> Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to >> O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to >> help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like >> occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I >> take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always >> wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping >> blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them >> may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that >> quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction >> are top priorities, but what about the other services? >> >> I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew >> up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, >> inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you >> guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with >> classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of >> help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten >> in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and >> then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From >> what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be >> notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide >> but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if >> not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent >> cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have >> someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI >> was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in >> the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm >> therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids >> in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering >> verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own >> education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the >> luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow >> what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively >> gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow >> classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I >> can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in >> the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help >> them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you >> think? >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c om From spangler.robert at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 17:53:44 2010 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 13:53:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be great. Thanks a lot! Thanks, Robby On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: > Hello all, > > My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My > Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function > for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my > blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or > commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using > Blackboard? > > Thanks, > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of > Arts and Sciences > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of Arts and Sciences From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 18:56:26 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 14:56:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, Arielle, This is a very interesting topic. I moved to the United States from Taiwan when I was in 8th grade so don't have much to say regarding the educational experience of early school years in this country. The special education system was rudimentary in Taiwan when I was growing up;with the support of my family, I was able to acquire exceelent braille skills but had very limited cane travel and assistive technology instruction. When I first came to the country, I began O&M lessons twice a week immediately to learn basic cane techniques and orientation in my school building, and i saw my TVI for a class period each day to reinforce English braille and other blindness skills. An aide was assigned to me during the first year to serve as a sighted guide and verbally describe classroom activities, but after I was introduced to a Braille Lite and became more independent, I no longer needed this service. Throughout the remaining years of high school my TVI mostly served as a braillist, and the aide only came into my classroom to read me a test when it was not transcribed into braille on time. I continued to have weekly O&M lessons, but I had a lot of trouble with getting braille textbooks in a timely manner after I started taking ADvance Placement classes. I also had limited technology training; I was given a braille Note after my Braille Lite but did not learn JAWS until my senior year. I was not introduced to a scanning program until I started working with state rehab to get technology equipment for college. While my personal experience is a bit different from those of an average American blind student, i do agree with others that while braille, O&M, and technology instruction are essential, having a personal aide is not necessary for blind students without additional disabilities. An aide may be helpful in early years of school when a student is learning basic cane travel skills and how to deal with visual aspects of the classroom, but blind students should be encouraged to be as independent as possible early on. Learning how to function without a personal aide will definitely prepare the students well for college, as those services will most likely not be available after high school graduation. Katie On 9/4/10, becky sabo wrote: > Hello all, > I had paraproes in some of my classes in high school to help me take notes. > I did take my own notes too. I was in a resource room once a day and during > that time I would work on Braille. I did not learn Braille intill high > school. I used large print books and materials because I could see enough > than. I used a cctv in some of my classes. I used jaws in school for a > typing class I took. I got om twice a week. I did not know of the nfb > during my growing up years intill I graduated from high school. I got some > opporaties but I was held back in others. Like they did not think I needed > to learn math or take English classes. I have struggled in college. I had > to use tutors and real classes. > I hope I helped in a way. > Becky > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Julie McGinnity > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school > > Hi. This is a really interesting topic. > > >From Kindergarten up through high school I had a TVI and a Para and a > mobility instructor. They did not hover over me. They brailled and > scanned things as needed, and they were always there if I needed help > with anything, but they encouraged me to be independent. Looking back > on it, I think they would have agreed with the NFB philosophy. My TVI > started me with jaws and open book when I was in 6th grade, and I had > been given a braille light when I was in 3rd grade. I loved my TVIs > and my paras. They were always very close to me, and I think I could > build a relationship with them because I respected them very much. I > had 1 hour of vision instruction(braille, technology, calling Freedom > Scientific) everyday. I'm not kidding about the last one. Lol! Then > I had 2 hours or so of mobility every other week. I wish I could have > had more mobility looking back, but that was my IEP. My para sat with > me in math class everyday, and she was very useful. She took notes > for me, so she could take down the graphs and things. Beyond that I > never had my aids in class with me. It was just never necessary. > They offered to walk me to class my first week in high school, and I > think I took advantage of that, but usually, I, like others have > mentioned, let my friends describe things like movies and the board to > me. I never asked them to do this, but it became an automatic that > they did. I think this is really nice, and I believe that they would > not have done this if I had had an adult helping me with everything. > I agree that it makes the "Blind person" less approachable. I met one > of my really good friends because she offered to help me with a > project in a gifted class that involved looking at things through some > kind of microskope. I can't remember if my aide was there or not at > that point. > > After reading these few responses I think it really depends on the > different needs of the student in question how much help they need. I > believe that students should not have their paras or whatever hanging > around them all the time because it becomes much harder to build > social skills. It goes without saying that mobility instruction and > braille learning should begin at an early age, but other than that, I > think it depends on the level of the student. That's why they make > IEPs after all--for the individual. > > I also think it's important to let the blind student be as independent > as soon as possible. I think more goals involving greater > independence should be worked into more IEPs. I am by no means an > educator, so if you think I'm crazy, it's ok. I'm not sure I know > what I'm talking about. Lol! > > > > On 9/4/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Since I spent my first few years in a school for the blind, I don't know >> about 1/2nd grade. >> When I started in 4th grade they, the DOE gave me a para who I've had > until >> now, entering 9th grade. >> And although the para has been nice to me, I don't consider it a needed >> service, as it sometimes blocks students from helping me and makes me a >> little more isolated I think. >> I wouldn't say that it has been completely without its use, specially in >> doing quick diagrams, and helping my TBI when she was overloaded with >> next-day or even give-in-half an hour work, but its not something I need >> personally to survive inside the actual classroom, as all that info I can >> obtain from my classmates. >> >> Actually what I've done is with my para, agreed that basically all they do >> is drop me off at class, and get me whatever materials I need, if any. >> >> Usually I sit with my friends, so they read the board to me, and give me >> descriptions whenever needed. >> >> >> I had a teacher get mad at me because of it once, but I don't consider it >> anything to get mad about--since my friends and I only talk about work, > and >> usually never make small talk unless we know we're close to or completely >> done with the work, plus it gives me a little social skill in the class, > and >> not make me look like a hopeless kid who can't do without services from > the >> state. >> >> But now my parra knows and agrees with me too. >> >> >> No complaint, just saying its not absolutely needed. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication >> is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >> message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> On Sep 4, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children >>> was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all >>> say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members >>> of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of >>> listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind >>> children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any >>> organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of >>> special services that parents often have to fight school districts to >>> get for their kids in public school. These special services range from >>> Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to >>> O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to >>> help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like >>> occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I >>> take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always >>> wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping >>> blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them >>> may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that >>> quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction >>> are top priorities, but what about the other services? >>> >>> I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew >>> up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, >>> inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you >>> guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with >>> classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of >>> help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten >>> in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and >>> then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From >>> what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be >>> notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide >>> but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if >>> not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent >>> cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have >>> someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI >>> was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in >>> the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm >>> therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids >>> in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering >>> verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own >>> education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the >>> luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow >>> what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively >>> gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow >>> classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I >>> can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in >>> the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help >>> them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you >>> think? >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co > m >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 19:09:23 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 12:09:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] This is Your Invitation To The Djd Invasion Labor Day Weekend Bonanza Message-ID: Hi There! What does Labor Day Weekend mean? Well aside from celebrating the labor day holiday, it usually means getting together with friends, having a BBQ or two, but it also means the end of summer. Many have already started school or college, and others are preparing to return to work on Tuesday. So with tonight technically being like a Saturday night, spend your last free night partying with The Djd Invasion Labor Day Party Bonanza! The fun starts at 8 PM eastern on ShockWaveRadio, as I, Djd, along with Will of The WDJm3 show have a lineup featuring some great upbeat dance songs that will make you want to shake your TailFeather, enjoy some other fun songs with upbeat and energetic lyrics, hear the strange story of the trash can that will never return, thus resulting in a very funny Idiot Of The Week Award, and oh no..The electric coolade will be returning also! During tonight's show you can reach us for requests or to say hi by email, aol instant messenger or msn messenger at the address liveradio at shockwaveradio.net by skype when the lines are open at the address shockwaveradio1 or using your phone by dialing 1-516-209-3796 So if you're ready to laugh, hear some great music, and party, then save this email, and at any time between 8 PM eastern and midnight, head on over to http://is.gd/eaRnd or listen in by phone if you're on the road by dialing 1-516-717-1679 So, if the summer fun must end, let's have one more good night of fun. Come join us for this special and fun edition of The Djd Invasion happening tonight! Hope to see you there! And if you'd like to know more about the station, visit http://www.shockwaveradio.net >From David, AKA Djd, host of The Djd Invasion on ShockWaveRadio http://www.shockwaveradio.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 5 18:29:38 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 14:29:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 References: Message-ID: <9E4F6CCAFBA34F579266D3019E8D04FD@Ashley> Rob, This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. Have you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If you use jaws that is F for forms field or E for edit field. You could also call blackboard and ask them. I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work with jaws. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Spangler" To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > Hello all, > > I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've > not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be > great. Thanks a lot! > > Thanks, > Robby > > On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my >> blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >> Blackboard? >> >> Thanks, >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >> Arts and Sciences >> > > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of > Arts and Sciences > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 20:49:12 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 16:49:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: <9E4F6CCAFBA34F579266D3019E8D04FD@Ashley> References: <9E4F6CCAFBA34F579266D3019E8D04FD@Ashley> Message-ID: For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on campus and asked if the technology support director could schedule a time to teach me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had mentioned it as something good to do, because Blackboard has given students of all abilities and disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses blackboard extensively. Some teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs to save paper for the college and hopefully altogether, since the students can read the hand-out or put it on the computer for in class. I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to the Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling Blackboard to ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB National Center. That's what they are there for, to help people evaluate the accessibility and practicality of software and hardware used by pling people. They are wonderful, and you can call them at (410) 659-9314, extension 5. For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit my blog. Here is a direct link to the article: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of-world.html On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Rob, > This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is > that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. Have > you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If you use jaws > that is F for forms field or E for edit field. > You could also call blackboard and ask them. > > I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work with > jaws. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Spangler" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > >> Hello all, >> >> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've >> not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be >> great. Thanks a lot! >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my >>> blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>> Blackboard? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >> Arts and Sciences >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 5 22:38:09 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 15:38:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [real-eyes] New Accessible Cell Phone Message-ID: Dear list, Below is a post from another list about a new cell phone that may be a simpler and less expensive alternative for those of us who would like a accessible cell phone that does text messaging without being a smart phone. It has a built in voice output that is supposed to read all the menu items. So obviously there is no need for the additional cost of cell phone screen readers like Mobile speaks or Talks.I have a free upgrade from Verizon and was considering a phone that many people who are blind use, the LG ENv 3, but the Samsung haven seems less expensive. I would welcome any info on anyone who has experience with this newly introduced phone. There is a link to a podcast tutorial in the below message that tells about the Samsung haven. I had a bit of trouble with the link, but I just shortened the Url and found the link and used save target as when I found the link. But I may be the only one who has a slight problem with the link to the tutorial. Best, Ginnie -----Original Message----- From: real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org [mailto:real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org] On Behalf Of Jim Fettgather Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:39 AM To: real-eyes at freelists.org Subject: [real-eyes] New Accessible Cell Phone This phone is accessible out of the box. Samsung Haven cell phone for Verizon Wireless You can apparently purchase the phone for $39.95 with a 2 year contract. It does not access the web or email, but text messaging is fully accessible. Audio demonstration is here: http://www.blind-geek-zone.net/Audio/SamsungHavenPodcast.mp3 To subscribe or to leave the list, or to set other subscription options, go to www.freelists.org/list/real-eyes From jty727 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:11:54 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 20:11:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question Message-ID: hey all! Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. thanks Justin From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:20:00 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:20:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI, I know people who use this phone and can do most things with it. There was a recent post to this list about a Samsung phone that Verizon offers that apparently reads everything. Let me know if you want me to resend that if you missed the message. Take care, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From davidschool97 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:20:43 2010 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:20:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT David Thomas Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line Vice President of Paez Production Networks subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin Young" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > hey all! > > Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good > accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I > currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. > thanks > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:21:16 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:21:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Robert, Blackboard 9.1 is accessible, (I have just started using it myself). I tried to go on and find the blog feature to test it out, but I can't find it. Can you tell me where I would locate it once I have selected the particular course to go into? Perhaps it is only available if the professor enables it. I'm not sure. Sorry I'm not of more help. Feel free to write me off list, though, with more info, and I'll see what I can do. Take care, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:24:18 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:24:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Beth and all, Hailstones and Halibut Bones is one of my most favorite books! I have it in hardcopy Braille. Good luck at CCB! Take care, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 00:23:56 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:23:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21AC91EA-4E97-4031-B539-6226EAEE7F83@mac.com> Honestly, if you're an at&t user, you're best off with the iPhone. On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:20 PM, David wrote: > you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT > David Thomas > Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line > Vice President of Paez Production Networks > subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Justin Young" > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > >> hey all! >> >> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >> thanks >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jty727 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:28:56 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 20:28:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh I think I missed it, Liz. Could you resend it On 9/5/10, David wrote: > you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I > wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT > David Thomas > Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at > electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject > line > Vice President of Paez Production Networks > subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at > davidschool97 at gmail.com > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Justin Young" > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > >> hey all! >> >> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >> thanks >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:51:58 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:51:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <21AC91EA-4E97-4031-B539-6226EAEE7F83@mac.com> References: <21AC91EA-4E97-4031-B539-6226EAEE7F83@mac.com> Message-ID: I would agree, I love my iPhone. Just sayin'... :-) Sure, I'll resend that one message, no problem. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 6 00:52:36 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:52:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: FW: [real-eyes] New Accessible Cell Phone Message-ID: Here's that Samsung cell phone post again. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of V Nork Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 5:38 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [real-eyes] New Accessible Cell Phone Dear list, Below is a post from another list about a new cell phone that may be a simpler and less expensive alternative for those of us who would like a accessible cell phone that does text messaging without being a smart phone. It has a built in voice output that is supposed to read all the menu items. So obviously there is no need for the additional cost of cell phone screen readers like Mobile speaks or Talks.I have a free upgrade from Verizon and was considering a phone that many people who are blind use, the LG ENv 3, but the Samsung haven seems less expensive. I would welcome any info on anyone who has experience with this newly introduced phone. There is a link to a podcast tutorial in the below message that tells about the Samsung haven. I had a bit of trouble with the link, but I just shortened the Url and found the link and used save target as when I found the link. But I may be the only one who has a slight problem with the link to the tutorial. Best, Ginnie -----Original Message----- From: real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org [mailto:real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org] On Behalf Of Jim Fettgather Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:39 AM To: real-eyes at freelists.org Subject: [real-eyes] New Accessible Cell Phone This phone is accessible out of the box. Samsung Haven cell phone for Verizon Wireless You can apparently purchase the phone for $39.95 with a 2 year contract. It does not access the web or email, but text messaging is fully accessible. Audio demonstration is here: http://www.blind-geek-zone.net/Audio/SamsungHavenPodcast.mp3 To subscribe or to leave the list, or to set other subscription options, go to www.freelists.org/list/real-eyes _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liziswhatis%40hotmai l.com From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 01:37:13 2010 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 21:37:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <21AC91EA-4E97-4031-B539-6226EAEE7F83@mac.com> Message-ID: Well, I have the NV2 and it works very well. I can send and receive texts. It reads almost all the menus. I hear the NV3 is a step up from it. It also has a very good voice. ~Franandah On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Liz Bottner wrote: > I would agree, I love my iPhone. Just sayin'... :-) Sure, I'll resend that > one message, no problem. > > Liz > > email: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 02:40:55 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 22:40:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it will work with any carrier you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I > wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT > David Thomas > Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at > electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject > line > Vice President of Paez Production Networks > subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at > davidschool97 at gmail.com > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Justin Young" > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > >> hey all! >> >> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >> thanks >> >> Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 02:56:33 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:56:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> Message-ID: <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> Yes, but you'd technically be breaking US law. Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it will work with any carrier you want. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > > >> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >> David Thomas >> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line >> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Justin Young" >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >>> hey all! >>> >>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>> thanks >>> >>> Justin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 03:02:49 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:02:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> Message-ID: <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like me buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > Yes, > but you'd technically be breaking US law. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > >> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you >> will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it >> will work with any carrier you want. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >> >>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang >>> I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>> David Thomas >>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at >>> electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the >>> subject line >>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at >>> davidschool97 at gmail.com >>> Please note: >>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>> communication is directed to. >>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Justin Young" >>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>> >>>> hey all! >>>> >>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> Justin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 03:06:00 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:06:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> Message-ID: <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Yes. You would be breaking the US DMCA Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like me buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > > >> Yes, >> but you'd technically be breaking US law. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >> >>> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it will work with any carrier you want. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>> >>> >>>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>>> David Thomas >>>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line >>>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com >>>> Please note: >>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. >>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>> >>>>> hey all! >>>>> >>>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> Justin >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 03:11:05 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC><2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com><93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Message-ID: <9A7F9F58208B4AF884E749108F243F50@SonyPC> o. Well. Miner detail. Lol. But, it is possible if you really wish to do so. That was kind of my point. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > Yes. > You would be breaking the US DMCA Digital Millenium Copyright Act. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > >> I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and >> declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like >> me buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >> >>> Yes, >>> but you'd technically be breaking US law. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge Paez >>> >>> >>> --- >>> President And CEO: >>> Paez Production Networks >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note: >>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>> communication is directed to. >>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>> >>>> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, >>>> you will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but >>>> it will work with any carrier you want. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>> >>>> >>>>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. >>>>> dang I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>>>> David Thomas >>>>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at >>>>> electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the >>>>> subject line >>>>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>>>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at >>>>> davidschool97 at gmail.com >>>>> Please note: >>>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>>> communication is directed to. >>>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>>>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>> >>>>>> hey all! >>>>>> >>>>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 03:16:24 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:16:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Message-ID: I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look into it. thanks Justin On 9/5/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Yes. > You would be breaking the US DMCA Digital Millenium Copyright Act. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > >> I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and >> declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like me >> buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >> >>> Yes, >>> but you'd technically be breaking US law. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge Paez >>> >>> >>> --- >>> President And CEO: >>> Paez Production Networks >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note: >>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>> communication is directed to. >>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >>> message and/or any accompanying media. >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>> >>>> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you >>>> will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it >>>> will work with any carrier you want. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>> >>>> >>>>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang >>>>> I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>>>> David Thomas >>>>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at >>>>> electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the >>>>> subject line >>>>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>>>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at >>>>> davidschool97 at gmail.com >>>>> Please note: >>>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>>> communication is directed to. >>>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>>>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>> >>>>>> hey all! >>>>>> >>>>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 03:33:29 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:33:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC><2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com><93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC><8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Message-ID: <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If > Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look > into it. > thanks > Justin > > On 9/5/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Yes. >> You would be breaking the US DMCA Digital Millenium Copyright Act. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >> communication >> is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >> message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >> >>> I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and >>> declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like >>> me >>> buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>> >>> >>>> Yes, >>>> but you'd technically be breaking US law. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge Paez >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> President And CEO: >>>> Paez Production Networks >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note: >>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>> communication is directed to. >>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>>> this >>>> message and/or any accompanying media. >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, >>>>> you >>>>> will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it >>>>> will work with any carrier you want. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. >>>>>> dang >>>>>> I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>>>>> David Thomas >>>>>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at >>>>>> electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the >>>>>> subject line >>>>>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>>>>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns >>>>>> at >>>>>> davidschool97 at gmail.com >>>>>> Please note: >>>>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>>>> communication is directed to. >>>>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in >>>>>> the >>>>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>>>>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>>> >>>>>>> hey all! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>>>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>>>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Sep 6 03:39:18 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:39:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Message-ID: Rumors are that Verizon will have the iPhone after the first of the year -- but if anyone knows for sure -- they aren't saying. Dave At 10:16 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >into it. >thanks >Justin David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Mon Sep 6 03:49:55 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:49:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> Message-ID: Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. Dave At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its >legality is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if >you have an unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, >you can make it work. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > > >>I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>into it. >>thanks >>Justin David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 03:58:16 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:58:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC><2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com><93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC><8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com><242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> Message-ID: <50CEA987BA244F84A3B112A60BE9804C@SonyPC> You may be correct. I just know a few kids that ordered I-phones on eBay from outside the US and are successfully using them on carriers other than AT&T. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's > network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail > broke it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. > > Dave > > At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality is >>in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >>unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >>work. >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >> >>>I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>into it. >>>thanks >>>Justin > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 04:07:23 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 00:07:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh how I loved Hailstones and Halibut Bones, too! I borrowed it in hardcopy Braille from the state library for the blind when I was still learning Braille as extra practice and fun at the same time (my thought was that if I read something I enjoyed, it would help me relax and be comfortable reading Braille, and then I'd get better faster...and that worked quite well, with me reading Huckleberry Finn, Harry Potter, and Hell House later!). ~Jewel On 9/5/10, Liz Bottner wrote: > Hi Beth and all, > > Hailstones and Halibut Bones is one of my most favorite books! I have it in > hardcopy Braille. Good luck at CCB! > > Take care, > > Liz > > email: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 06:31:04 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 08:31:04 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> Message-ID: <3C908F4D-F261-440B-840B-9FA498557E45@gmail.com> It will not work with CDMA carriers such as Verizon. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2010, at 4:40 AM, "Mark J. Cadigan" wrote: > You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it will work with any carrier you want. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > > >> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >> David Thomas >> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line >> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Justin Young" >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >>> hey all! >>> >>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>> thanks >>> >>> Justin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 06:34:35 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 02:34:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> Message-ID: <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped around campus? Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: > Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. > > Dave > > At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it work. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >> >> >>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>> into it. >>> thanks >>> Justin > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From cassonw at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 07:49:00 2010 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 00:49:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> Message-ID: First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering application. Bill On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: > I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the > states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . > As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped > around campus? > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's > network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke > it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. > > > > Dave > > > > At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: > >> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality > is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an > unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it > work. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > >> > >> > >>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If > >>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look > >>> into it. > >>> thanks > >>> Justin > > > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 08:53:01 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 04:53:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> Message-ID: You can buy unlocked iPhones in several countries through their Apple online stores, but you need to have the phone shipped somewhere in that country, so unless you are going to be there at some point, it's not an option. You can also buy iPhones for their full price in Apple retail stores. I know BestBuy will sell it to you too, but I'm not sure if you need to show that you have an existing contract with AT&T to buy it. Basically subsidized phones are only sold with two year AT&T contracts. You can also find unlocked phones on eBay, and obviously buying a phone that comes unlocked from the factory is not illegal in the US. If you use the phone with AT&T, though, and they find out it's an iPhone, they will add an iPhone data plan to your account automatically. Also, the other GSM carrier in the US is T-Mobile, and the iPhone doesn't really work well on T-Mobile's 3G network. At least the iPhone 4 doesn't. You can make calls etc, but I can't remember if you can't use data at all, or you can only use 2G data which is what happens with the iPad when used on T-Mobile's network. Also, it is absolutely legal to jailbreak an iPhone in the United States. It's just that Apple doesn't support it, and will not repair a jailbroken iPhone. This is not a problem because you can always bring the phone to its factory defaults. The truth is that most software available for jailbroken iPhones only is not accessible with VoiceOver, including the Cydia package manager. I would only recommend jailbreaking to a blind user if he/she needs to unlock the phone. And even for that, sighted help is necessary. Ignasi On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Bill wrote: > First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, > purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the > DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full > value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says > about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on > verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple > decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon > phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It > is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG > phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering > application. > Bill > > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: > >> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the >> states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . >> As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped >> around campus? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's >> network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke >> it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>>> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality >> is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >> unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >> work. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>> >>>> >>>>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>>> into it. >>>>> thanks >>>>> Justin >>> >>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 13:13:08 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 06:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <635548.28094.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is a good topic to discuss. I attended school as a child growing up in the late 80S and through the 90S when progressive computer technology was in its infancy in this country. I came from a large school district on Long Island, NY where there were TVI’S who traveled to each school in the local district. They were required to see there students on a one-to-one basis each day on a specific schedule. I was the only blind student in the schools I attended so, I was given basic Braille instruction and O&M instruction. I learned to use a cane when I was 10 years old since my school did not want me to stand out or hurt anyone with it. While I was in elementary school, a Para was hired to be an escort and assist the teachers who did not know how to deal with a blind student. In most cases, I navigated on my own or with other classmates. My day-to-day social interactions with other students were somewhat limited due to administrations fears of personal injury and the good old words, liability, insurance, etc do to blindness. Since the internet was unavailable in most of my life growing up, I did not have any knowledge about the NFB or any advocacy organizations. In addition, as a result of this, adequate information and resources to proper services were unavailable for my family and I to utilize. My family and I believed that what was going on was OK. When I was around middle-school age, I did receive training on something called a Braillemait for note-taking purposes. Later on, we learned that this peace of equipment could only handle small tasks and could not be used for creating large text files. I was then instructed on the use of a Dos PC for using WordPerfect for this task. Once the internet boom of the late 90S was upon us, I was able to begin using a PC with Jaws, as well as a dos-based device for note-taking called an Aria When my district kept socially promoting me and denying me to take the standardized tests for college as a result of a “learning disability”, I required them to send me to Perkins School for the Blind, to fix the inadequate education I received. The false reports and inadequate information lead the individuals at Perkins to first think that I had a learning disability. Unfortunately, funding was short so Perkins could not pick up the slack for 12 years of improper education and fix it in 2. As a result, I started college with many struggles but was later relieved to find out through extensive testing and remediation that I never had a learning or cognitive disability. I have become a successful college graduate after all of this. As a community, we are responsible for our future generation. In essence, I fell that we need to go person by person, family, by family to insure that these problems become diminished since all families in our community do not have support and endurance for handling the inadequate educators in this country. --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > From: Ashley Bramlett > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 9:39 PM > Hi Arielle, > Great topic!  In elementary school and my last year of > high school I was at a public school with a vision resource > room.  They are rare in the country; its a room where a > few TVIs were stationed and several blind students from the > county went to this school although the majority were > mainstreamed from the beginning.  I spent a half day > with the TVI in the resource room if I remember correctly. > > Then I was mainstreamed in my home school and saw the TVI > most days of the week for a short time. > At this point the TVI was itinerant and traveled to several > schools. > While mainstreamed I received accomodations including > alternative forms of handouts, alternative formats of > textbooks and extended time on tests.  I grew up > reading and writing braille from second grade; I started > reading print. > > Growing up I did not have aides.  I think students > need O&M instruction, braille instruction and technology > instruction.  Beyond that other services such as Ot and > speech therapy are individualized and should be determined > in the IEP meeting. > In elementary school the only tech training was for typing > on an Apple computer.  All my assignments even > homework, were done by hand in large print or on the perkins > and my TVI transcribed them.  In fifth or sixth grade I > received a Braille n' speak which was my first > piece of technology I took to school and used in the > classroom.  I'm really glad to hear some students such > as > Julie had jaws and a scanning program.  I did not get > this instruction in school.  I learned about jaws and > Openbook in late high school years and in college through > someone from the Dept for the blind. > > I also received mobility instruction but the quality could > have been better. O&M was given for an hour or two every > other week.  It helped me learn some basics of O&M > such as cane techniques, orientation to school, soliciting > assistance in stores and traveling on simple streets.  > But we did not do anything complex nor did we cover public > transportation. > Overall I was fortunate to have good services in school and > feel sad to hear other students have to fight for something > like braille texts and handouts when I had them > automatically. > > Good topic. > > Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle > Silverman" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:27 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in > school > > > > Hi all, > > > > At this year's NFB convention, improving education of > blind children > > was an especially prominent theme, and for good > reason-we would all > > say that the ability for the blind to be fully > participating members > > of society starts with a quality education. I am on a > couple of > > listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB > parents of blind > > children list as well as another one that's not > affiliated with any > > organization), and discussions frequently come up > about the myriad of > > special services that parents often have to fight > school districts to > > get for their kids in public school. These special > services range from > > Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning > materials, to > > O&M, to technology instruction, to having a > teacher's aide assigned to > > help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary > services like > > occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), > speech, etc. When I > > take part in these discussions as someone who grew up > blind, I always > > wonder which of these services are absolutely critical > to helping > > blind students get a sound and effective education, > and which of them > > may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think > it's clear that > > quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and > tech instruction > > are top priorities, but what about the other > services? > > > > I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those > of you who grew > > up blind received, and if you think these services > were adequate, > > inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious > whether you > > guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) > help you with > > classroom activities or getting around and if you > think this kind of > > help was appropriate. When I started elementary school > (kindergarten > > in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and > first grade and > > then the aide was discontinued in second grade and > thereafter. From > > what I remember (although I know memories from > kindergarten can be > > notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as > my sighted guide > > but didn't help me with classroom activities. In > hindsight I wonder if > > not having the aide would have forced the O&M to > teach me independent > > cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, > I didn't have > > someone in the classroom describing things to me > except when the TVI > > was there, which I think was only one or two class > periods per day in > > the beginning and eventually she basically served as a > braillist. I'm > > therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is > for blind kids > > in this generation to have classroom aides working > with them, offering > > verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel > like my own > > education was relatively good, in part, because I > didn't have the > > luxury of getting so much information and I had to > learn how to follow > > what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as > well as actively > > gathering information from others (like the teacher > and fellow > > classmates), skills that are critical for success in > college. But, I > > can also see the argument that having someone describe > goings-on in > > the classroom to a young child might give them an > advantage and help > > them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. > What do you > > think? > > > > Arielle > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 14:33:59 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:33:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Message-ID: <19E474B6-9BCD-450A-97BA-7FD1DA383B31@mac.com> Yes, and you can't get one on Verison unless you'd be willing to break the law and get one. Its possible, but its unlawful. Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Justin Young wrote: > I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If > Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look > into it. > thanks > Justin > > On 9/5/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Yes. >> You would be breaking the US DMCA Digital Millenium Copyright Act. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication >> is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >> message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >> >>> I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and >>> declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like me >>> buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>> >>> >>>> Yes, >>>> but you'd technically be breaking US law. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge Paez >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> President And CEO: >>>> Paez Production Networks >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note: >>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>> communication is directed to. >>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >>>> message and/or any accompanying media. >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you >>>>> will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it >>>>> will work with any carrier you want. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang >>>>>> I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>>>>> David Thomas >>>>>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at >>>>>> electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the >>>>>> subject line >>>>>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>>>>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at >>>>>> davidschool97 at gmail.com >>>>>> Please note: >>>>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>>>> communication is directed to. >>>>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>>>>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>>> >>>>>>> hey all! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>>>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>>>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 14:38:15 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:38:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76C8CB86-BB76-4584-8D9B-90B5F0775643@mac.com> Not in the EU or Canada, but bringing it in is a violation of the DMCA, because you're sidestepping US law by buying it from a different country. Secondly, though they are different processes, I believe now adays you have to jail break to unlock? Is this true? On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Bill wrote: > First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, > purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the > DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full > value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says > about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on > verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple > decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon > phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It > is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG > phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering > application. > Bill > > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: > >> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the >> states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . >> As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped >> around campus? >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's >> network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke >> it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>>> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality >> is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >> unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >> work. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>> >>>> >>>>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>>> into it. >>>>> thanks >>>>> Justin >>> >>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 14:42:55 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:42:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ignasi: Not to be argumentative, but when did jailbreaking become legal? I mean--I know some people who did it while it was not, but I've heard roomers that its legal and never been able to confirm them. Thanks. Jorge , On Sep 6, 2010, at 4:53 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > You can buy unlocked iPhones in several countries through their Apple online stores, but you need to have the phone shipped somewhere in that country, so unless you are going to be there at some point, it's not an option. You can also buy iPhones for their full price in Apple retail stores. I know BestBuy will sell it to you too, but I'm not sure if you need to show that you have an existing contract with AT&T to buy it. Basically subsidized phones are only sold with two year AT&T contracts. You can also find unlocked phones on eBay, and obviously buying a phone that comes unlocked from the factory is not illegal in the US. If you use the phone with AT&T, though, and they find out it's an iPhone, they will add an iPhone data plan to your account automatically. Also, the other GSM carrier in the US is T-Mobile, and the iPhone doesn't really work well on T-Mobile's 3G network. At least the iPhone 4 doesn't. You can make calls etc, but I can't remember if you can't use data at all, or > you can only use 2G data which is what happens with the iPad when used on T-Mobile's network. Also, it is absolutely legal to jailbreak an iPhone in the United States. It's just that Apple doesn't support it, and will not repair a jailbroken iPhone. This is not a problem because you can always bring the phone to its factory defaults. The truth is that most software available for jailbroken iPhones only is not accessible with VoiceOver, including the Cydia package manager. I would only recommend jailbreaking to a blind user if he/she needs to unlock the phone. And even for that, sighted help is necessary. > > Ignasi > On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Bill wrote: > >> First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, >> purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the >> DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full >> value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says >> about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on >> verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple >> decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon >> phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It >> is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG >> phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering >> application. >> Bill >> >> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: >> >>> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the >>> states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . >>> As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped >>> around campus? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's >>> network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke >>> it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>>>> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality >>> is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >>> unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >>> work. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>>>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>>>> into it. >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> Justin >>>> >>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Sep 6 15:23:12 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:23:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school Message-ID: <20100906152312.21865.95375@web1> I was mainstreamed in the public schools with access to other blind students through my state's school for the blind and their summer programs. During my preschool and kindergarten years, my family didn't know much about Braille or the white cane, let alone any blindness skills. At that point, we knew that I had "a visual impairment," but we didn't know to what extent or how it would affect me. I wore thick glasses and tried to see. Effectively, I was a sighted child with poor eyesight rather than a blind child. Back then, I read large print written in black ink (which most kids do at that age), but I had to rest my eyes quite a lot because I was especially prone to headaches. I also had a desk clipboard that held my papers at a slant so I could see them batter; these papers were held directly in front of my face rather than flat on the desk. I learned colors and letters like all the other kids, but it was understood that it might take me longer or that I'd need special help from time to time. As for special services, I was sent to an occupational therapist (I don't really know why except perhaps they might have thought me physically challenged as well as blind). I think I knew instinctively that none of these services were helpful to the fullest extent possible, and I think my mother also knew it. By my first grade year, my mom had made contact with Dr. Ruby Ryles (who now teaches at Louisiana Tech). At the time, Ruby was teaching Braille in the Bellingham School District, the closes district that offered blindness services to my small county township. In the first through third grades, I worked with her instructional assistants who were quite qualified in Braille to teach it to me. I was in transition from print to Braille at that time (which was quite frustrating as I wanted to be independent of any print-related assistance, but I didn't know enough braille to have that independence). Once in a while, a paraprofessional would come in and write things from the board onto a piece of paper in highlighter, and I'd trace them in black ink over the yellow highlighted letters. Fortunately, this practice stopped as soon as I knew enough Braille to keep up with my peers. Other than that, I didn't receive much specialized assistance save for the usual Braille and cane travel lessons (daily for Braille, at most tweice weekly for cane travel). I should add here that I ditched the O.T. and the glasses. From time to time, I'd have a special assistant with me during elementary school field trips. Usually, this was my Braille teacher or someone else hired by the school to help and look after me. I didn't so much mind my Braille teacher as she stayed out of the way. She was also like a grandmother, so it felt more like having a parent volunteer in the classroom rather than a special helper. As for the others the school hired, they knew nothing about blindness, so I felt isolated from my peers. In one journal entry, I remember writing that I felt like a dog on a leash. It was horrible and didn't do much for my self esteem, my sense of self efficacy, nor my social development. Fast forward to middle school. I would occasionally work with a reader when tests weren't Brailled, but that was about it. Throughout most of my school career, I found no difficulties in getting any special help I required from other students and teachers. I'm glad it worked out that way. that is to say, I'm glad I was able to get help from teachers and peers because I now know how to get help from others in the general public without special mediation by some other individual. Fast forward to high school. I had this teacher in high school who was... well... horrible! She was a special educator who specialized in learning disabilities. In each of the high schools, special education students usually took one period of a class called "Learning Strategies" or "Study Skills." The class is designed to serve as a study hall, a course on managing tests and organizational tasks, a place where people could get help in classes they struggled with, and the school's way of fulfilling their requirement to provide at least some specialized assistance to those with IEPs. For me, the class served as both a hinderance and a help: I didn't need the class as I had no problem with tests and organizational tasks (I have no learning difficulties); the class was a help in that it gave me an opportunity for Braille and cane instruction without interfering with my general education schedule. More than anything, the teachers of this particular class were annoying and had a sense of self-importance that made me gag; they'd stick their nose in everything concerning my life: I had no ability to do anything that other kids do (including the stupid things) without having at least six adults to answer to no matter my "crime." I felt isolated, scrutinized, and plainly miserable. I did experience a lot of social isolation in school. I definitely think blindness had a lot to do with it in the early years, especially in elementary and middle school. As for high school, the teachers posed a greater challenge to me socially for reasons I've already explained. More than that, they seemed to think that it was their duty to correct my social skills even though they honestly had none themselves; the general education teachers sometimes talked to them about whatever issues they had with me rather than to me directly like they would with other kids. As a result, I often got exaggerated messages from special education teachers about my behavior in school rather than more accurate ones from those who mattered. Again, that messed with my sense of self efficacy. I could have done without that. I think my misery in high school separated me from sighted kids more than my blindness did. Like I said, I could have done without that. I definitely echo the sentiments of most here who say that, for many blind people, Braille and cane training are necessary, but that a lot of the extra services we get stuck with aren't. I think much of that has more to do with misconceptions about blindness. There's a misconception out there that blind people automatically have social skill development issues because we're blind, that blind people are more likely to hurt themselves, and that blind people have no grasp of what's going on around them and can't get that grasp without special help. These same misconceptions (I believe) draw attention away from the real issues confronting us including inequality in the classroom, lack of appropriate materials, lack of appropriate compensatory skills training in a variety of areas (not just in Braille and travel), and the general feeling of frustration from not having much in the way of blind peers and adult role models available to us. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > This is a good topic to discuss. I attended school as a child growing > up in the late 80S and through the 90S when progressive computer > technology was in its infancy in this country. > I came from a large school district on Long Island, NY where there were > TVI’S who traveled to each school in the local district. They were > required to see there students on a one-to-one basis each day on a > specific schedule. I was the only blind student in the schools I > attended so, I was given basic Braille instruction and O&M instruction. > I learned to use a cane when I was 10 years old since my school did not > want me to stand out or hurt anyone with it. While I was in elementary > school, a Para was hired to be an escort and assist the teachers who > did not know how to deal with a blind student. In most cases, I > navigated on my own or with other classmates. My day-to-day social > interactions with other students were somewhat limited due to > administrations fears of personal injury and the good old words, > liability, insurance, etc do to blindness. > Since the internet was unavailable in most of my life growing up, I did > not have any knowledge about the NFB or any advocacy organizations. In > addition, as a result of this, adequate information and resources to > proper services were unavailable for my family and I to utilize. My > family and I believed that what was going on was OK. > When I was around middle-school age, I did receive training on > something called a Braillemait for note-taking purposes. Later on, we > learned that this peace of equipment could only handle small tasks and > could not be used for creating large text files. I was then instructed > on the use of a Dos PC for using WordPerfect for this task. Once the > internet boom of the late 90S was upon us, I was able to begin using a > PC with Jaws, as well as a dos-based device for note-taking called an Aria > When my district kept socially promoting me and denying me to take the > standardized tests for college as a result of a “learning disability”, > I required them to send me to Perkins School for the Blind, to fix the > inadequate education I received. The false reports and inadequate > information lead the individuals at Perkins to first think that I had a > learning disability. Unfortunately, funding was short so Perkins could > not pick up the slack for 12 years of improper education and fix it in > 2. As a result, I started college with many struggles but was later > relieved to find out through extensive testing and remediation that I > never had a learning or cognitive disability. I have become a > successful college graduate after all of this. As a community, we are > responsible for our future generation. In essence, I fell that we need > to go person by person, family, by family to insure that these problems > become diminished since all families in our > community do not have support and endurance for handling the > inadequate educators in this country. > --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 9:39 PM >> Hi Arielle, >> Great topic!  In elementary school and my last year of >> high school I was at a public school with a vision resource >> room.  They are rare in the country; its a room where a >> few TVIs were stationed and several blind students from the >> county went to this school although the majority were >> mainstreamed from the beginning.  I spent a half day >> with the TVI in the resource room if I remember correctly. >> Then I was mainstreamed in my home school and saw the TVI >> most days of the week for a short time. >> At this point the TVI was itinerant and traveled to several >> schools. >> While mainstreamed I received accomodations including >> alternative forms of handouts, alternative formats of >> textbooks and extended time on tests.  I grew up >> reading and writing braille from second grade; I started >> reading print. >> Growing up I did not have aides.  I think students >> need O&M instruction, braille instruction and technology >> instruction.  Beyond that other services such as Ot and >> speech therapy are individualized and should be determined >> in the IEP meeting. >> In elementary school the only tech training was for typing >> on an Apple computer.  All my assignments even >> homework, were done by hand in large print or on the perkins >> and my TVI transcribed them.  In fifth or sixth grade I >> received a Braille n' speak which was my first >> piece of technology I took to school and used in the >> classroom.  I'm really glad to hear some students such >> as >> Julie had jaws and a scanning program.  I did not get >> this instruction in school.  I learned about jaws and >> Openbook in late high school years and in college through >> someone from the Dept for the blind. >> I also received mobility instruction but the quality could >> have been better. O&M was given for an hour or two every >> other week.  It helped me learn some basics of O&M >> such as cane techniques, orientation to school, soliciting >> assistance in stores and traveling on simple streets. >> But we did not do anything complex nor did we cover public >> transportation. >> Overall I was fortunate to have good services in school and >> feel sad to hear other students have to fight for something >> like braille texts and handouts when I had them >> automatically. >> Good topic. >> Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle >> Silverman" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:27 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in >> school >>> Hi all, >>> At this year's NFB convention, improving education of >> blind children >>> was an especially prominent theme, and for good >> reason-we would all >>> say that the ability for the blind to be fully >> participating members >>> of society starts with a quality education. I am on a >> couple of >>> listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB >> parents of blind >>> children list as well as another one that's not >> affiliated with any >>> organization), and discussions frequently come up >> about the myriad of >>> special services that parents often have to fight >> school districts to >>> get for their kids in public school. These special >> services range from >>> Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning >> materials, to >>> O&M, to technology instruction, to having a >> teacher's aide assigned to >>> help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary >> services like >>> occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), >> speech, etc. When I >>> take part in these discussions as someone who grew up >> blind, I always >>> wonder which of these services are absolutely critical >> to helping >>> blind students get a sound and effective education, >> and which of them >>> may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think >> it's clear that >>> quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and >> tech instruction >>> are top priorities, but what about the other >> services? >>> I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those >> of you who grew >>> up blind received, and if you think these services >> were adequate, >>> inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious >> whether you >>> guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) >> help you with >>> classroom activities or getting around and if you >> think this kind of >>> help was appropriate. When I started elementary school >> (kindergarten >>> in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and >> first grade and >>> then the aide was discontinued in second grade and >> thereafter. From >>> what I remember (although I know memories from >> kindergarten can be >>> notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as >> my sighted guide >>> but didn't help me with classroom activities. In >> hindsight I wonder if >>> not having the aide would have forced the O&M to >> teach me independent >>> cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, >> I didn't have >>> someone in the classroom describing things to me >> except when the TVI >>> was there, which I think was only one or two class >> periods per day in >>> the beginning and eventually she basically served as a >> braillist. I'm >>> therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is >> for blind kids >>> in this generation to have classroom aides working >> with them, offering >>> verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel >> like my own >>> education was relatively good, in part, because I >> didn't have the >>> luxury of getting so much information and I had to >> learn how to follow >>> what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as >> well as actively >>> gathering information from others (like the teacher >> and fellow >>> classmates), skills that are critical for success in >> college. But, I >>> can also see the argument that having someone describe >> goings-on in >>> the classroom to a young child might give them an >> advantage and help >>> them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. >> What do you >>> think? >>> Arielle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 16:31:42 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 12:31:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for References Message-ID: <5E8C5BBB8B234C4D8D6D54F563E05887@Rufus> Hello, I have a friend whose daughter is experiencing difficulties with her vision condition. By this I am not looking for one of the many various ways of referencing blindness. She can see too well to be legally called blind, but one of her eyes has been the cause of some consternation. This is how my friend describes her: *** she has optic nerve damage and nystagmus her damaged eye was shut down when she was a toddler her central nervous system turned the eye back on two years after the better eye was weakened from the stress of working as an artist she has terrible tremors from this and has never taken medication she would be open to speaking with anyone with similar challenges and would be open to seeing an optical neurologist. *** 1. Is there anyone hear with a similar experience who could speak to my friend or know of someone who might be willing? 2. Is there anyone in the DC area who could recommend a neurologist? If so, please e-mail me off list so that I may put you directly in touch. Thanks in advance, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Mon Sep 6 20:24:59 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 14:24:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901cb4e01$977c4a30$c674de90$@org> Hi Arielle, These are really great questions. I don't remember ever having an aid in the classroom. Any of my itinerant teachers taught me outside of the classroom. I had instruction in mobility, daily living skills, and Braille, but all of those classes were given outside of the main class. I have worked as a mentor and summer instructor for many high school students who had para-professionals with them in their classes. Most of them hardly had any interaction with their fellow students. It used to please me no end when they realized that they could get around their school without someone giving them sighted guide and participating in every teacher interaction. Most students who are blind can learn great independence and self-advocacy skills while still In school along with the rest of the education they receive. I would argue that they would be much better at functioning in the real world than those who have others seeing to their day to day needs. Regards, Maryann Migliorelli From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Mon Sep 6 20:32:33 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 14:32:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> References: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> Message-ID: <000d01cb4e02$a9c2d410$fd487c30$@org> Hi Jorge, What school are you going to? I used to do quite a bit of mentoring with the kids in New York City. Maryann From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 19:40:21 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:40:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: <20100906152312.21865.95375@web1> References: <20100906152312.21865.95375@web1> Message-ID: <8B3047B9-FC31-4551-B50F-E96490CC9965@mac.com> Hi Jedi: Completely share your sentiments. I went threw a time like this in 7th grade, and my vision teacher back then wouldn't help much, since she blamed ME for all the problems, saying it had been reported on to her that I had no social skills -- aka, I didn't make small talk with most of the idiots in my class, when she herself had no social skills so she came across very rude. It got to the points where my father flatly talked to her and she switched me off her assignments the next year. (thank god) Unfortunately I have seen a lot of that self-importance people get from working with blind kids, and half the time it looks like its rooted in a conbination of misconceptions, as well as unworthy teachers. I agree we should be focusing all our energy into the education problems of equality, since this will do much more for us then the car issue does. Jorge On Sep 6, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Jedi wrote: > I was mainstreamed in the public schools with access to other blind students through my state's school for the blind and their summer programs. > > During my preschool and kindergarten years, my family didn't know much about Braille or the white cane, let alone any blindness skills. At that point, we knew that I had "a visual impairment," but we didn't know to what extent or how it would affect me. I wore thick glasses and tried to see. Effectively, I was a sighted child with poor eyesight rather than a blind child. Back then, I read large print written in black ink (which most kids do at that age), but I had to rest my eyes quite a lot because I was especially prone to headaches. I also had a desk clipboard that held my papers at a slant so I could see them batter; these papers were held directly in front of my face rather than flat on the desk. I learned colors and letters like all the other kids, but it was understood that it might take me longer or that I'd need special help from time to time. As for special services, I was sent to an occupational therapist (I don't really know why except perhaps they might have thought me physically challenged as well as blind). I think I knew instinctively that none of these services were helpful to the fullest extent possible, and I think my mother also knew it. > > By my first grade year, my mom had made contact with Dr. Ruby Ryles (who now teaches at Louisiana Tech). At the time, Ruby was teaching Braille in the Bellingham School District, the closes district that offered blindness services to my small county township. In the first through third grades, I worked with her instructional assistants who were quite qualified in Braille to teach it to me. I was in transition from print to Braille at that time (which was quite frustrating as I wanted to be independent of any print-related assistance, but I didn't know enough braille to have that independence). Once in a while, a paraprofessional would come in and write things from the board onto a piece of paper in highlighter, and I'd trace them in black ink over the yellow highlighted letters. Fortunately, this practice stopped as soon as I knew enough Braille to keep up with my peers. Other than that, I didn't receive much specialized assistance save for the usual Braille and cane travel lessons (daily for Braille, at most tweice weekly for cane travel). I should add here that I ditched the O.T. and the glasses. > > From time to time, I'd have a special assistant with me during elementary school field trips. Usually, this was my Braille teacher or someone else hired by the school to help and look after me. I didn't so much mind my Braille teacher as she stayed out of the way. She was also like a grandmother, so it felt more like having a parent volunteer in the classroom rather than a special helper. As for the others the school hired, they knew nothing about blindness, so I felt isolated from my peers. In one journal entry, I remember writing that I felt like a dog on a leash. It was horrible and didn't do much for my self esteem, my sense of self efficacy, nor my social development. > > Fast forward to middle school. I would occasionally work with a reader when tests weren't Brailled, but that was about it. Throughout most of my school career, I found no difficulties in getting any special help I required from other students and teachers. I'm glad it worked out that way. that is to say, I'm glad I was able to get help from teachers and peers because I now know how to get help from others in the general public without special mediation by some other individual. > > Fast forward to high school. I had this teacher in high school who was... well... horrible! She was a special educator who specialized in learning disabilities. In each of the high schools, special education students usually took one period of a class called "Learning Strategies" or "Study Skills." The class is designed to serve as a study hall, a course on managing tests and organizational tasks, a place where people could get help in classes they struggled with, and the school's way of fulfilling their requirement to provide at least some specialized assistance to those with IEPs. For me, the class served as both a hinderance and a help: I didn't need the class as I had no problem with tests and organizational tasks (I have no learning difficulties); the class was a help in that it gave me an opportunity for Braille and cane instruction without interfering with my general education schedule. More than anything, the teachers of this particular class were annoying and had a sense of self-importance that made me gag; they'd stick their nose in everything concerning my life: I had no ability to do anything that other kids do (including the stupid things) without having at least six adults to answer to no matter my "crime." I felt isolated, scrutinized, and plainly miserable. > > I did experience a lot of social isolation in school. I definitely think blindness had a lot to do with it in the early years, especially in elementary and middle school. As for high school, the teachers posed a greater challenge to me socially for reasons I've already explained. More than that, they seemed to think that it was their duty to correct my social skills even though they honestly had none themselves; the general education teachers sometimes talked to them about whatever issues they had with me rather than to me directly like they would with other kids. As a result, I often got exaggerated messages from special education teachers about my behavior in school rather than more accurate ones from those who mattered. Again, that messed with my sense of self efficacy. I could have done without that. I think my misery in high school separated me from sighted kids more than my blindness did. Like I said, I could have done without that. > > I definitely echo the sentiments of most here who say that, for many blind people, Braille and cane training are necessary, but that a lot of the extra services we get stuck with aren't. I think much of that has more to do with misconceptions about blindness. There's a misconception out there that blind people automatically have social skill development issues because we're blind, that blind people are more likely to hurt themselves, and that blind people have no grasp of what's going on around them and can't get that grasp without special help. These same misconceptions (I believe) draw attention away from the real issues confronting us including inequality in the classroom, lack of appropriate materials, lack of appropriate compensatory skills training in a variety of areas (not just in Braille and travel), and the general feeling of frustration from not having much in the way of blind peers and adult role models available to us. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> This is a good topic to discuss. I attended school as a child growing up in the late 80S and through the 90S when progressive computer technology was in its infancy in this country. >> I came from a large school district on Long Island, NY where there were TVI’S who traveled to each school in the local district. They were required to see there students on a one-to-one basis each day on a specific schedule. I was the only blind student in the schools I attended so, I was given basic Braille instruction and O&M instruction. I learned to use a cane when I was 10 years old since my school did not want me to stand out or hurt anyone with it. While I was in elementary school, a Para was hired to be an escort and assist the teachers who did not know how to deal with a blind student. In most cases, I navigated on my own or with other classmates. My day-to-day social interactions with other students were somewhat limited due to administrations fears of personal injury and the good old words, liability, insurance, etc do to blindness. >> Since the internet was unavailable in most of my life growing up, I did not have any knowledge about the NFB or any advocacy organizations. In addition, as a result of this, adequate information and resources to proper services were unavailable for my family and I to utilize. My family and I believed that what was going on was OK. >> When I was around middle-school age, I did receive training on something called a Braillemait for note-taking purposes. Later on, we learned that this peace of equipment could only handle small tasks and could not be used for creating large text files. I was then instructed on the use of a Dos PC for using WordPerfect for this task. Once the internet boom of the late 90S was upon us, I was able to begin using a PC with Jaws, as well as a dos-based device for note-taking called an Aria >> When my district kept socially promoting me and denying me to take the standardized tests for college as a result of a “learning disability”, I required them to send me to Perkins School for the Blind, to fix the inadequate education I received. The false reports and inadequate information lead the individuals at Perkins to first think that I had a learning disability. Unfortunately, funding was short so Perkins could not pick up the slack for 12 years of improper education and fix it in 2. As a result, I started college with many struggles but was later relieved to find out through extensive testing and remediation that I never had a learning or cognitive disability. I have become a successful college graduate after all of this. As a community, we are responsible for our future generation. In essence, I fell that we need to go person by person, family, by family to insure that these problems become diminished since all families in our >> community do not have support and endurance for handling the inadequate educators in this country. > > >> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >>> From: Ashley Bramlett >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 9:39 PM >>> Hi Arielle, >>> Great topic! In elementary school and my last year of >>> high school I was at a public school with a vision resource >>> room. They are rare in the country; its a room where a >>> few TVIs were stationed and several blind students from the >>> county went to this school although the majority were >>> mainstreamed from the beginning. I spent a half day >>> with the TVI in the resource room if I remember correctly. > >>> Then I was mainstreamed in my home school and saw the TVI >>> most days of the week for a short time. >>> At this point the TVI was itinerant and traveled to several >>> schools. >>> While mainstreamed I received accomodations including >>> alternative forms of handouts, alternative formats of >>> textbooks and extended time on tests. I grew up >>> reading and writing braille from second grade; I started >>> reading print. > >>> Growing up I did not have aides. I think students >>> need O&M instruction, braille instruction and technology >>> instruction. Beyond that other services such as Ot and >>> speech therapy are individualized and should be determined >>> in the IEP meeting. >>> In elementary school the only tech training was for typing >>> on an Apple computer. All my assignments even >>> homework, were done by hand in large print or on the perkins >>> and my TVI transcribed them. In fifth or sixth grade I >>> received a Braille n' speak which was my first >>> piece of technology I took to school and used in the >>> classroom. I'm really glad to hear some students such >>> as >>> Julie had jaws and a scanning program. I did not get >>> this instruction in school. I learned about jaws and >>> Openbook in late high school years and in college through >>> someone from the Dept for the blind. > >>> I also received mobility instruction but the quality could >>> have been better. O&M was given for an hour or two every >>> other week. It helped me learn some basics of O&M >>> such as cane techniques, orientation to school, soliciting >>> assistance in stores and traveling on simple streets. >>> But we did not do anything complex nor did we cover public >>> transportation. >>> Overall I was fortunate to have good services in school and >>> feel sad to hear other students have to fight for something >>> like braille texts and handouts when I had them >>> automatically. > >>> Good topic. > >>> Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle >>> Silverman" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:27 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in >>> school > > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> At this year's NFB convention, improving education of >>> blind children >>>> was an especially prominent theme, and for good >>> reason-we would all >>>> say that the ability for the blind to be fully >>> participating members >>>> of society starts with a quality education. I am on a >>> couple of >>>> listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB >>> parents of blind >>>> children list as well as another one that's not >>> affiliated with any >>>> organization), and discussions frequently come up >>> about the myriad of >>>> special services that parents often have to fight >>> school districts to >>>> get for their kids in public school. These special >>> services range from >>>> Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning >>> materials, to >>>> O&M, to technology instruction, to having a >>> teacher's aide assigned to >>>> help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary >>> services like >>>> occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), >>> speech, etc. When I >>>> take part in these discussions as someone who grew up >>> blind, I always >>>> wonder which of these services are absolutely critical >>> to helping >>>> blind students get a sound and effective education, >>> and which of them >>>> may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think >>> it's clear that >>>> quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and >>> tech instruction >>>> are top priorities, but what about the other >>> services? > >>>> I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those >>> of you who grew >>>> up blind received, and if you think these services >>> were adequate, >>>> inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious >>> whether you >>>> guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) >>> help you with >>>> classroom activities or getting around and if you >>> think this kind of >>>> help was appropriate. When I started elementary school >>> (kindergarten >>>> in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and >>> first grade and >>>> then the aide was discontinued in second grade and >>> thereafter. From >>>> what I remember (although I know memories from >>> kindergarten can be >>>> notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as >>> my sighted guide >>>> but didn't help me with classroom activities. In >>> hindsight I wonder if >>>> not having the aide would have forced the O&M to >>> teach me independent >>>> cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, >>> I didn't have >>>> someone in the classroom describing things to me >>> except when the TVI >>>> was there, which I think was only one or two class >>> periods per day in >>>> the beginning and eventually she basically served as a >>> braillist. I'm >>>> therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is >>> for blind kids >>>> in this generation to have classroom aides working >>> with them, offering >>>> verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel >>> like my own >>>> education was relatively good, in part, because I >>> didn't have the >>>> luxury of getting so much information and I had to >>> learn how to follow >>>> what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as >>> well as actively >>>> gathering information from others (like the teacher >>> and fellow >>>> classmates), skills that are critical for success in >>> college. But, I >>>> can also see the argument that having someone describe >>> goings-on in >>>> the classroom to a young child might give them an >>> advantage and help >>>> them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. >>> What do you >>>> think? > >>>> Arielle > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 21:01:50 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 17:01:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <19E474B6-9BCD-450A-97BA-7FD1DA383B31@mac.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <19E474B6-9BCD-450A-97BA-7FD1DA383B31@mac.com> Message-ID: <124B6F54-5AAF-4ED8-94E2-B526310BAEE0@gmail.com> Again, and iPhone will not work on VZ's network. It doesn't matter if you jailbreak it or not. It's just an other system and it is completely incompatible. In any case, I think the original poster was talking about an LG phone, and given that he is currently with Verizon, the iPhone is not an option right now. Unfortunately I have never used any of the LG accessible phones, but hopefully someone knows more about them... On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Yes, > and you can't get one on Verison unless you'd be willing to break the law and get one. > > Its possible, but its unlawful. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Justin Young wrote: > >> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >> into it. >> thanks >> Justin >> >> On 9/5/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Yes. >>> You would be breaking the US DMCA Digital Millenium Copyright Act. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge Paez >>> >>> >>> --- >>> President And CEO: >>> Paez Production Networks >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note: >>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication >>> is directed to. >>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >>> message and/or any accompanying media. >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>> >>>> I don't believe so, if you pay all the import fees and the like and >>>> declare it in customs, I don't think there is any broken law. It's like me >>>> buying a laptop in Canada and bringing it back over here. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:56 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, >>>>> but you'd technically be breaking US law. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jorge Paez >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> President And CEO: >>>>> Paez Production Networks >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note: >>>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>>> communication is directed to. >>>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >>>>> message and/or any accompanying media. >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You can get an unlocked I-phone in Canada or Europe. If you do that, you >>>>>> will have to pay full Pryce, and you will not have a warranty, but it >>>>>> will work with any carrier you want. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:20 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> you could get the samsong havin. it seems good with accessibility. dang >>>>>>> I wish the Iphone was on varison or something else than ATNT >>>>>>> David Thomas >>>>>>> Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at >>>>>>> electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the >>>>>>> subject line >>>>>>> Vice President of Paez Production Networks >>>>>>> subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at >>>>>>> davidschool97 at gmail.com >>>>>>> Please note: >>>>>>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>>>>>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >>>>>>> communication is directed to. >>>>>>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >>>>>>> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of >>>>>>> this message and/or any accompanying media. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> From: "Justin Young" >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:11 PM >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hey all! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Question for you. Do any of you use the LG ENv3? Does it has good >>>>>>>> accessibility? I keep getting asked by Verizon about upgrading. I >>>>>>>> currently have the LG Env2 and was thinking of upgrading. >>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Justin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 21:48:20 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:48:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: <000d01cb4e02$a9c2d410$fd487c30$@org> References: <3C5B6E90-C007-4964-86E7-28B52788CD85@mac.com> <000d01cb4e02$a9c2d410$fd487c30$@org> Message-ID: <50195105-5230-4B99-AA91-9705C10517CD@mac.com> I'm currently gonna be a freshmen at MANHATTAN HUNTER SCIENCE HIGHSCHOOL. Its part of whats known now as MARTHIN LUTHER KING EDUCATION COMPLEX. On Sep 6, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Maryann Migliorelli wrote: > Hi Jorge, What school are you going to? I used to do quite a bit of > mentoring with the kids in New York City. > > Maryann > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 20:32:01 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:32:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] podcast feed Message-ID: <5A2388A6-2F3A-44A2-828E-E98CE179AE57@gmail.com> Hi the feed to subscribe to my podcast is: http://jkenn337.podbean.com Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 20:54:35 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:54:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <76C8CB86-BB76-4584-8D9B-90B5F0775643@mac.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> <76C8CB86-BB76-4584-8D9B-90B5F0775643@mac.com> Message-ID: <82C8BCFD-7055-4D0E-98FF-40534F0EEC13@gmail.com> Yes it is. You need to jailbreak and then use an unlocking tool. On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Not in the EU or Canada, but bringing it in is a violation of the DMCA, because you're sidestepping US law by buying it from a different country. > Secondly, though they are different processes, I believe now adays you have to jail break to unlock? > Is this true? > > > > On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Bill wrote: > >> First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, >> purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the >> DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full >> value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says >> about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on >> verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple >> decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon >> phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It >> is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG >> phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering >> application. >> Bill >> >> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: >> >>> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the >>> states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . >>> As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped >>> around campus? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's >>> network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke >>> it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>>>> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality >>> is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >>> unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >>> work. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>>>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>>>> into it. >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> Justin >>>> >>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 20:57:18 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:57:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92B9F638-BBEC-4305-8D11-B300DB8012EE@gmail.com> It's not rumors. It became officially legal one or two months ago. You can look it up on the website of the Library of Congress and others. On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ignasi: > Not to be argumentative, > but when did jailbreaking become legal? > I mean--I know some people who did it while it was not, but I've heard roomers that its legal and never been able to confirm them. > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > , > > > > On Sep 6, 2010, at 4:53 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> You can buy unlocked iPhones in several countries through their Apple online stores, but you need to have the phone shipped somewhere in that country, so unless you are going to be there at some point, it's not an option. You can also buy iPhones for their full price in Apple retail stores. I know BestBuy will sell it to you too, but I'm not sure if you need to show that you have an existing contract with AT&T to buy it. Basically subsidized phones are only sold with two year AT&T contracts. You can also find unlocked phones on eBay, and obviously buying a phone that comes unlocked from the factory is not illegal in the US. If you use the phone with AT&T, though, and they find out it's an iPhone, they will add an iPhone data plan to your account automatically. Also, the other GSM carrier in the US is T-Mobile, and the iPhone doesn't really work well on T-Mobile's 3G network. At least the iPhone 4 doesn't. You can make calls etc, but I can't remember if you can't use data at all, or >> you can only use 2G data which is what happens with the iPad when used on T-Mobile's network. Also, it is absolutely legal to jailbreak an iPhone in the United States. It's just that Apple doesn't support it, and will not repair a jailbroken iPhone. This is not a problem because you can always bring the phone to its factory defaults. The truth is that most software available for jailbroken iPhones only is not accessible with VoiceOver, including the Cydia package manager. I would only recommend jailbreaking to a blind user if he/she needs to unlock the phone. And even for that, sighted help is necessary. >> >> Ignasi >> On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Bill wrote: >> >>> First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, >>> purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the >>> DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full >>> value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says >>> about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on >>> verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple >>> decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon >>> phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It >>> is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG >>> phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering >>> application. >>> Bill >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the >>>> states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . >>>> As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped >>>> around campus? >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's >>>> network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke >>>> it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>>>>> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality >>>> is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >>>> unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>>>>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>>>>> into it. >>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>> Justin >>>>> >>>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 22:34:14 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:34:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <82C8BCFD-7055-4D0E-98FF-40534F0EEC13@gmail.com> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <242912C8831C42AE83FB6E84A9699E4C@SonyPC> <5CAA75EB-821F-45C8-AC2D-5A9DEF50333A@gmail.com> <76C8CB86-BB76-4584-8D9B-90B5F0775643@mac.com> <82C8BCFD-7055-4D0E-98FF-40534F0EEC13@gmail.com> Message-ID: <335E4D60-30C2-4677-B553-7950EB62D153@mac.com> Ah. Interesting. Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 6, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Yes it is. You need to jailbreak and then use an unlocking tool. > On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Not in the EU or Canada, but bringing it in is a violation of the DMCA, because you're sidestepping US law by buying it from a different country. >> Secondly, though they are different processes, I believe now adays you have to jail break to unlock? >> Is this true? >> >> >> >> On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Bill wrote: >> >>> First, jailbreaking is a different process then unlocking. Second, >>> purchasing the phone in an unlocked condition is not a violation of the >>> DMCA. AT&T will also sell you an unlocked version of the phone for the full >>> value of the device. The last one may not be true any more. What David says >>> about the iPhone on VZW is true. The phone is incapable of working on >>> verizon due to the cell technology it is based on. The only way is if Apple >>> decides to produce a iPhone based on the other technology. As for verizon >>> phones, I would not recommend anything based on the talks screen reader. It >>> is only on version 1 and is super buggy. I was tempted to get one of the LG >>> phones but the screen reader on those does not read the calendering >>> application. >>> Bill >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> I've only heard of the iPhone working on either AT&T or tMobile here in the >>>> states. It will be interesting if Vzw acquires the iPhone . >>>> As students, have you found other uses for your cell? Has a gps helped >>>> around campus? >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:49 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not to be argumentative, but I don't think this is true. Verizon's >>>> network is CDMA-based, and AT&T's is GSM-based. So, even if you jail broke >>>> it, from AT&T, it wouldn't work on Verizon. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 10:33 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >>>>>> There is a way to get an I-phone on Verizon Wireless, but, its legality >>>> is in question, so I should probably not say more. But, if you have an >>>> unlocked I-phone not the newest one, but the older one, you can make it >>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:16 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have Verizon Wireless. I believe all I phones are from att? If >>>>>>> Verizon has one and its fully accessible maybe I'd be willing to look >>>>>>> into it. >>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>> Justin >>>>> >>>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >>>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 23:01:32 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 17:01:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Sometimes in a large crowd, there will be places where the noise is particularly intense and other points where it is relatively quiet. You might be able to use these sound changes as landmarks, as well as more specific sounds such as music coming from speakers. I find using the sun for cardinal directions to be very helpful in open spaces. Typically the sun is coming from the east in the morning, from the south around midday and from the west in the afternoon. Even if you don't know which cardinal direction you want to be going, you can use any changes in the sun's position as a cue that you've accidentally turned. Unfortunately this only works when the sun is out and not hidden by clouds. I have trouble with quads also, but I do find it helpful to identify tactile landmarks for the particular sidewalk I want. For example, I know the major east/west sidewalk on my campus that goes from the psychology building to the west side of campus has a steep uphill incline at the beginning, so once I find the incline, I know I am going the right way. Finally, when exiting a parking lot, you can often listen for traffic from a busy street bordering the parking lot, and use that as an object to orient toward. I used to be scared of walking out of a parking lot toward busy traffic. However, I discovered that there will be an obvious transition between the parking lot and the busy street,such as a curb or incline, or at least a significant texture change. Arielle On 9/4/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Darian, > Thanks. There's many ideas to this. > Traveling indoors such as a mall or > airport probably is easier for most of us because there's lots of people to > ask and some of them may be traveling in the same direction as you. Also > its my experience that indoors has more landmarks since its a defined space > with walls. > > But outside you may just have concrete all around you or asfault if its a > parking lot. When at George Mason University the quad area where students > gather for speakers or informally to chat is an example of an open space. > Branching off it are sidewalks going to various buildings. On one side is > the Johnson center which is a kind of student union and multi purpose > facility. I'm not a student there now but do remember the layout and how > frustrating it could be. > All you could feel with the cane were bricks on the ground. You could hear > echos depending on where you were in this space but it wasn't too helpful. > How do you maintain a straight line of travel without veering? > Sometimes a crack in the sidewalk can help. But often its hard to find > anything to maintain a line of travel. > > Lookforward to others responses. > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darian Smith" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces > > > Ashley and list > I’ll first speak to cane technique. If I’m in a crowd, I use > pencil grip because it’s best for insuring that you don’t trip > people, you don’t get your cane broken, and I find that you only are > going to need to know what’s a foot or so ahead of you if even that > much as you are not traveling very fast anyway. > In open spaces I use an open palm grip (assuming that the cane in > use is a long white cane)I find that by wrapping my hand around the > handle of the cane with my palm facing skywardas the technique is > utilized, will allow me to use the lenth of my cane and pick up > objects around me and travel at my natural pace. > As orientating goes, If I am looking for something I might ask for > directions,. If I am in a mall, or airportor something like that, I > mayalso ask if there is a landmarknear my desired location (“ is there > a restaurantor some other type of land mark near the restroom?” “or > if I find pete’s Coffie, have I gone too far past the rest room?”) > If I’m not sure and I think I’m near the area, I can ask another > personif I am going the right direction by repeting the initial > question I probably asked at first “excuse me, I am looking for the > rest room. Might I be going in the right direction?” or “is it this > way?” and point in the direction that I think it may be. > I think you have the right idea as it relates to using echoes and > tactal landmarks. > I think there are probably ten or twenty different ways people may go > about it and I am interested to hear what folks have to saytoo! > Darian > > > On 9/4/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I have a similar question to Kerri's. >> I grew up with O&M service since elementary school and got some through >> the >> Dept for the blind here. But still struggle with some areas of O&M. >> >> How do you navigate crowds? For instance a crowd gathering for a picnic >> or >> event. Its noisy and I can't use hearing as usual to navigate. What >> about >> crowded vacinities such as a mall or train station? Do you just ask for >> directions and navigate best you can? In my experience tactile landmarks >> may or may not be touchable in a crowd because people are all around them. >> How do you hold your cane in a crowd? >> >> Next question concerns open spaces. I have tunnel vision but cannot >> always >> use it depending on lighting. I also want to give suggestions to my >> friends >> who are more blind then me. >> What tips can you share for open spaces where there may not be something >> to >> shoreline with your cane? I use my vision if available, tactile landmarks >> and echos. >> Sometimes where you're walking may be away from or toward a smell which is >> helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel? Its so easy to >> get >> turned around. >> Echos only seem to help when I'm near enough to the building. Open spaces >> such as the campus quad or some parts of a mall are examples of open >> spaces >> like this. Unfortunately some blind people I've talked to believe open >> spaces including parking lots are places to avoid. That stems from low >> expectations and just not knowing the alternative techniques others use. >> >> Look forward to your responses. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From davidschool97 at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 22:21:44 2010 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 17:21:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] T-Mobile phones Message-ID: <4C6238D249AA4E77A61838FBDFD89740@Davidpc> Hi guys do you know if there is a completely accessible feature phone on T-Mobile. this is on T-Mobile David Thomas Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line Vice President of Paez Production Networks subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Sep 6 22:42:01 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:42:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess Message-ID: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> Hi all: I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white non-pegged, and black with the pegs. Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? Thanks. Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 00:00:08 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:00:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: samsung Haven tour, are you ready? Message-ID: <4c858078.1238640a.7b8f.1590@mx.google.com> here=20is=20the=20link=20from=20another=20list.=20=20It's=20called=20blind= =20users=20 verizon.=20=20to=20join,=20click=20below: blindusersverizonphones-subscribe at yahoogroups.com enjoy,=20and=20good=20luck... =20----=20Original=20Message=20------ From:=20Curtis=20Delzer=20 References: <5A2388A6-2F3A-44A2-828E-E98CE179AE57@gmail.com> Message-ID: <58CE6DD6-1020-487F-985F-7C39DD917827@mac.com> Thanks Josh, and, if I may do a quick plug, my podcast, NO EYES REQUIRED, which is about accessibility for the blind/accessible technology, is here: http://feeds.feedburner.com/techsavvypodcasts/sLUL Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 6, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > the feed to subscribe to my podcast is: http://jkenn337.podbean.com > > Josh Kennedy > jkenn337 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 00:06:35 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:06:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] T-Mobile phones Message-ID: <4c8581fb.0c87970a.2bbf.fffffe6b@mx.google.com> hey, are you talking something like the nokia N82? You already have the iPhone, remember (smile). Call me when you can. Ok bye ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" Message-ID: <3475D3E0F99944D49B5F3C166B4E1EB7@Ashley> Arielle, Good suggestions. I also remembered I can use slopes and the texture of the ground if it changes even in a crowd. In a crowded room can you find landmarks on the perimeter by shorlining, or are those areas typically blocked with people? Has anyone found something on the ceiling such as an air conditioning vent, chandelier, or hanging object like a picture to be useful landmarks? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces Hi all, Sometimes in a large crowd, there will be places where the noise is particularly intense and other points where it is relatively quiet. You might be able to use these sound changes as landmarks, as well as more specific sounds such as music coming from speakers. I find using the sun for cardinal directions to be very helpful in open spaces. Typically the sun is coming from the east in the morning, from the south around midday and from the west in the afternoon. Even if you don't know which cardinal direction you want to be going, you can use any changes in the sun's position as a cue that you've accidentally turned. Unfortunately this only works when the sun is out and not hidden by clouds. I have trouble with quads also, but I do find it helpful to identify tactile landmarks for the particular sidewalk I want. For example, I know the major east/west sidewalk on my campus that goes from the psychology building to the west side of campus has a steep uphill incline at the beginning, so once I find the incline, I know I am going the right way. Finally, when exiting a parking lot, you can often listen for traffic from a busy street bordering the parking lot, and use that as an object to orient toward. I used to be scared of walking out of a parking lot toward busy traffic. However, I discovered that there will be an obvious transition between the parking lot and the busy street,such as a curb or incline, or at least a significant texture change. Arielle On 9/4/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Darian, > Thanks. There's many ideas to this. > Traveling indoors such as a mall or > airport probably is easier for most of us because there's lots of people > to > ask and some of them may be traveling in the same direction as you. Also > its my experience that indoors has more landmarks since its a defined > space > with walls. > > But outside you may just have concrete all around you or asfault if its a > parking lot. When at George Mason University the quad area where students > gather for speakers or informally to chat is an example of an open space. > Branching off it are sidewalks going to various buildings. On one side is > the Johnson center which is a kind of student union and multi purpose > facility. I'm not a student there now but do remember the layout and how > frustrating it could be. > All you could feel with the cane were bricks on the ground. You could > hear > echos depending on where you were in this space but it wasn't too helpful. > How do you maintain a straight line of travel without veering? > Sometimes a crack in the sidewalk can help. But often its hard to find > anything to maintain a line of travel. > > Lookforward to others responses. > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darian Smith" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] navigating in crowds and open spaces > > > Ashley and list > I’ll first speak to cane technique. If I’m in a crowd, I use > pencil grip because it’s best for insuring that you don’t trip > people, you don’t get your cane broken, and I find that you only are > going to need to know what’s a foot or so ahead of you if even that > much as you are not traveling very fast anyway. > In open spaces I use an open palm grip (assuming that the cane in > use is a long white cane)I find that by wrapping my hand around the > handle of the cane with my palm facing skywardas the technique is > utilized, will allow me to use the lenth of my cane and pick up > objects around me and travel at my natural pace. > As orientating goes, If I am looking for something I might ask for > directions,. If I am in a mall, or airportor something like that, I > mayalso ask if there is a landmarknear my desired location (“ is there > a restaurantor some other type of land mark near the restroom?” “or > if I find pete’s Coffie, have I gone too far past the rest room?”) > If I’m not sure and I think I’m near the area, I can ask another > personif I am going the right direction by repeting the initial > question I probably asked at first “excuse me, I am looking for the > rest room. Might I be going in the right direction?” or “is it this > way?” and point in the direction that I think it may be. > I think you have the right idea as it relates to using echoes and > tactal landmarks. > I think there are probably ten or twenty different ways people may go > about it and I am interested to hear what folks have to saytoo! > Darian > > > On 9/4/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I have a similar question to Kerri's. >> I grew up with O&M service since elementary school and got some through >> the >> Dept for the blind here. But still struggle with some areas of O&M. >> >> How do you navigate crowds? For instance a crowd gathering for a picnic >> or >> event. Its noisy and I can't use hearing as usual to navigate. What >> about >> crowded vacinities such as a mall or train station? Do you just ask for >> directions and navigate best you can? In my experience tactile landmarks >> may or may not be touchable in a crowd because people are all around >> them. >> How do you hold your cane in a crowd? >> >> Next question concerns open spaces. I have tunnel vision but cannot >> always >> use it depending on lighting. I also want to give suggestions to my >> friends >> who are more blind then me. >> What tips can you share for open spaces where there may not be something >> to >> shoreline with your cane? I use my vision if available, tactile >> landmarks >> and echos. >> Sometimes where you're walking may be away from or toward a smell which >> is >> helpful. How do you maintain a straight line of travel? Its so easy to >> get >> turned around. >> Echos only seem to help when I'm near enough to the building. Open >> spaces >> such as the campus quad or some parts of a mall are examples of open >> spaces >> like this. Unfortunately some blind people I've talked to believe open >> spaces including parking lots are places to avoid. That stems from low >> expectations and just not knowing the alternative techniques others use. >> >> Look forward to your responses. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Sep 7 02:51:42 2010 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 02:51:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello all, as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a long time to read them with jaws. so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jewel S. To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on campus and asked if the technology support director could schedule a time to teach me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had mentioned it as something good to do, because Blackboard has given students of all abilities and disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses blackboard extensively. Some teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs to save paper for the college and hopefully altogether, since the students can read the hand-out or put it on the computer for in class. I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to the Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling Blackboard to ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB National Center. That's what they are there for, to help people evaluate the accessibility and practicality of software and hardware used by pling people. They are wonderful, and you can call them at (410) 659-9314, extension 5. For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit my blog. Here is a direct link to the article: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of-world.html On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Rob, > This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is > that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. Have > you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If you use jaws > that is F for forms field or E for edit field. > You could also call blackboard and ask them. > > I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work with > jaws. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Spangler" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > >> Hello all, >> >> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've >> not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be >> great. Thanks a lot! >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my >>> blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>> Blackboard? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >> Arts and Sciences >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Sep 7 02:56:40 2010 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 02:56:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <492019695.225203.1283828200753.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello arielle and all, this is a good topic indeed and, i will share some of my accomodiations that i used when i was in school. from kindergarden through 6th grade i had ot for my blindness and also for gross motor skills due to my syndrome. but, i didn't get a tvi to assist me until i was in high school. the tvi enlarged handouts for me, and worked with the teachers to assist me in school. i didn''t use too many alternative techniques when i was in high school or middle school because i was in denial of my blindness and, i didn't accept my blindness until i was out of high school. all of my alternative techniques that i now use i learned on my own. i didn't find the nfb until 1995 and, i didn't start my college career until 2000. thanks for asking this and, i will talk to you all soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 22:27:07 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Personal aides and other services in school Hi all, At this year's NFB convention, improving education of blind children was an especially prominent theme, and for good reason-we would all say that the ability for the blind to be fully participating members of society starts with a quality education. I am on a couple of listservs for parents of blind children (the NFB parents of blind children list as well as another one that's not affiliated with any organization), and discussions frequently come up about the myriad of special services that parents often have to fight school districts to get for their kids in public school. These special services range from Braille instruction and provision of Braille learning materials, to O&M, to technology instruction, to having a teacher's aide assigned to help the blind student with visual tasks, to auxiliary services like occupational therapy (OT), physical therapy (PT), speech, etc. When I take part in these discussions as someone who grew up blind, I always wonder which of these services are absolutely critical to helping blind students get a sound and effective education, and which of them may be nice, but not necessary. For example, I think it's clear that quality Braille instruction, cane travel teaching and tech instruction are top priorities, but what about the other services? I'm just curious to know what kinds of services those of you who grew up blind received, and if you think these services were adequate, inadequate, or superfluous. In particular, I'm curious whether you guys had classroom aides (or someone besides your TVI) help you with classroom activities or getting around and if you think this kind of help was appropriate. When I started elementary school (kindergarten in 1990), I had a classroom aide in kindergarten and first grade and then the aide was discontinued in second grade and thereafter. From what I remember (although I know memories from kindergarten can be notoriously inaccurate), the aide basically served as my sighted guide but didn't help me with classroom activities. In hindsight I wonder if not having the aide would have forced the O&M to teach me independent cane travel at an earlier age. But, more importantly, I didn't have someone in the classroom describing things to me except when the TVI was there, which I think was only one or two class periods per day in the beginning and eventually she basically served as a braillist. I'm therefore a little surprised to hear how common it is for blind kids in this generation to have classroom aides working with them, offering verbal descriptions of visual activities, etc. I feel like my own education was relatively good, in part, because I didn't have the luxury of getting so much information and I had to learn how to follow what was being taught using nonvisual techniques, as well as actively gathering information from others (like the teacher and fellow classmates), skills that are critical for success in college. But, I can also see the argument that having someone describe goings-on in the classroom to a young child might give them an advantage and help them gain a stronger understanding of visual concepts. What do you think? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 7 03:47:04 2010 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 20:47:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You need to update jaws. I would download the jaws 12 beta. So far it working great on my computer. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 hello all, as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a long time to read them with jaws. so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jewel S. To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on campus and asked if the technology support director could schedule a time to teach me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had mentioned it as something good to do, because Blackboard has given students of all abilities and disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses blackboard extensively. Some teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs to save paper for the college and hopefully altogether, since the students can read the hand-out or put it on the computer for in class. I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to the Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling Blackboard to ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB National Center. That's what they are there for, to help people evaluate the accessibility and practicality of software and hardware used by pling people. They are wonderful, and you can call them at (410) 659-9314, extension 5. For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit my blog. Here is a direct link to the article: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of- world.html On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Rob, > This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is > that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. > Have you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If > you use jaws that is F for forms field or E for edit field. > You could also call blackboard and ask them. > > I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work > with jaws. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Spangler" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > >> Hello all, >> >> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. >> I've not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that >> would be great. Thanks a lot! >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into >>> my blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>> Blackboard? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >> Arts and Sciences >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% > 40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Tue Sep 7 03:55:51 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 21:55:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> Message-ID: <000e01cb4e40$92441540$b6cc3fc0$@org> Hi Justin, Verizon will be coming out with its own I phone pretty soon. I was just there yesterday getting my new Haven. That is what they were all saying at their booth. By the way, the Haven is fully accessible in its menus, contacts, editing, and texting. If you want a phone for just a phone and texting application, it's wonderful. It doesn't use the web at all. Unlike most of the L.G. ones, everything it does is fully accessible including the calendar, calculator, and other peripherals. The only drawback, at least to some people is that is doesn't have a qwerty keyboard and you can't adjust the speech. Have a great week. Regards, Maryann Migliorelli From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 04:27:17 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 00:27:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: References: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: What is the trouble you are having with the tests on Blackboard, and what version of Blackboard is it? I took a quiz on Blackboard 9.1 and was surprisingly delighted to find that the test was not only fully accessible, but it was so easy to do I finished the test well within the usual limit, even though I am allowed twice as long for tests and quizzes. I finished it in 20 minutes, and enjoyed the quick navigation of Headings for each question and combo boxes and edit fields for answering multiple-choice and short answer questions respectively. I was using JAWS 10 for the task. ~Jewel On 9/6/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > You need to update jaws. I would download the jaws 12 beta. So far it > working great on my computer. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Amy Sabo > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > hello all, > > as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i > have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now > it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's > tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my > porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email > me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a > long time to read them with jaws. > > so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to > you soon. > > > hugs, > from amy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jewel S. > To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of > Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on campus > and asked if the technology support director could schedule a time to teach > me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had mentioned it as something > good to do, because Blackboard has given students of all abilities and > disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses blackboard extensively. Some > teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs to save paper for the college and > hopefully altogether, since the students can read the hand-out or put it on > the computer for in class. > > I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that > function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to the > Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling Blackboard to > ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB National Center. That's > what they are there for, to help people evaluate the accessibility and > practicality of software and hardware used by pling people. They are > wonderful, and you can call them at > (410) 659-9314, extension 5. > > For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit my > blog. Here is a direct link to the article: > http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of- > world.html > > On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Rob, >> This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is >> that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. >> Have you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If >> you use jaws that is F for forms field or E for edit field. >> You could also call blackboard and ask them. >> >> I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work >> with jaws. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Spangler" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. >>> I've not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that >>> would be great. Thanks a lot! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into >>>> my blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>>> Blackboard? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>>> Arts and Sciences >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >>> 0earthlink.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n > et > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 05:49:08 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 01:49:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> Message-ID: <2B938FF4-4C5B-413A-BB5A-3AE7E21133E0@gmail.com> I know you can easily buy one of those here in Spain and they can ship it to you, so if you really can't find anything let me know and I'll tell you where to look. IC On Sep 6, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi all: > I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white non-pegged, and black with the pegs. > Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? > > Thanks. > Jorge > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jbahm at pcdesk.net Tue Sep 7 09:08:48 2010 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:08:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> Message-ID: <4C860120.9070500@pcdesk.net> George, I don't know where you could get a set like that, but I know someone who might. He's really into Chess. Contact me privately off list if you haven't found one yet and I'll give you his email address. -- They say god has always been. Linux and I will now disprove that: $ ar m God ar: creating God There you have it. God was created by the ar program. Good news is, God really does exist! Joseph C. Lininger, -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From davidschool97 at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 12:17:52 2010 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David Thomas) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:17:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] T-Mobile phones In-Reply-To: <4c8581fb.0c87970a.2bbf.fffffe6b@mx.google.com> References: <4c8581fb.0c87970a.2bbf.fffffe6b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5C9D9BB9-5B62-46B2-86CA-36CD28F5EB53@gmail.com> Just courious if there is a tmobile. Feature phone that is accessible out of the box yes I have an iPhone but just interisted Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Zach DG wrote: > hey, are you talking something like the nokia N82? You already have the iPhone, remember (smile). Call me when you can. Ok bye > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David" To: "nabs" Date sent: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 17:21:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] T-Mobile phones > > Hi guys do you know if there is a completely accessible feature phone on T-Mobile. this is on T-Mobile > David Thomas > Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line > Vice President of Paez Production Networks > subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 13:32:04 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 09:32:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> Message-ID: <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> I already knew how to play Chess but enrolled in the Hadley course to learn the math notation. Students are provided a free chess set that is a fine one and sounds like what you are looking for. Perhaps one day we'll play a match online? Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] chess Hi all: I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white non-pegged, and black with the pegs. Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? Thanks. Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Sep 7 13:50:11 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:50:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> Message-ID: <906926F8-E5B0-4101-AA4C-FB036B53CAF6@mac.com> Hmmm. Yes. Let me know if you fine an accessible site. I'd like to play online, I've just never found an accessible one. Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Sep 7 13:49:33 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:49:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> Message-ID: <8038F839-CD10-4025-9E82-54D8F35EE95D@mac.com> Oh, and I'd suggest you become a member of the USCF (United States Chess Federation), if you wanna play in face-to-face tournaments. They have tournaments for all ages and divisions for pretty much anyone. Jorge On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > I already knew how to play Chess but enrolled in the Hadley course to learn > the math notation. Students are provided a free chess set that is a fine > one and sounds like what you are looking for. Perhaps one day we'll play a > match online? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] chess > > Hi all: > I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new > chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white > non-pegged, and black with the pegs. > Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? > > Thanks. > Jorge > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this > communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" > in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and > all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 7 14:35:19 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 10:35:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 References: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Amy, would it be possible to update jaws? I have 11 now. I think jaws 10 and above will work better with blackboard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Sabo" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > hello all, > > as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i > have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now > it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's > tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my > porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email > me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a > long time to read them with jaws. > > so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to > you soon. > > > hugs, > from amy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jewel S. > To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of > Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on > campus and asked if the technology support director could schedule a > time to teach me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had > mentioned it as something good to do, because Blackboard has given > students of all abilities and disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses > blackboard extensively. Some teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs > to save paper for the college and hopefully altogether, since the > students can read the hand-out or put it on the computer for in class. > > I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that > function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to > the Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling > Blackboard to ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB > National Center. That's what they are there for, to help people > evaluate the accessibility and practicality of software and hardware > used by pling people. They are wonderful, and you can call them at > (410) 659-9314, extension 5. > > For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit > my blog. Here is a direct link to the article: > http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of-world.html > > On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Rob, >> This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know >> is >> that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. >> Have >> you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If you use >> jaws >> that is F for forms field or E for edit field. >> You could also call blackboard and ask them. >> >> I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work >> with >> jaws. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Spangler" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've >>> not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be >>> great. Thanks a lot! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my >>>> blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>>> Blackboard? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>>> Arts and Sciences >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 7 14:32:41 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 10:32:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 References: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Amy, What version of blackboard is it? I hear the new one is supposed to be more accessible. For your quizzes explain to the professor the problem. Maybe go to a computer and show him. How about either doing the quizzes with him or a reader. Make sure you tell the disabilities office about the accessibility problems too. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Sabo" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > hello all, > > as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i > have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now > it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's > tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my > porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email > me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a > long time to read them with jaws. > > so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to > you soon. > > > hugs, > from amy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jewel S. > To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of > Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on > campus and asked if the technology support director could schedule a > time to teach me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had > mentioned it as something good to do, because Blackboard has given > students of all abilities and disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses > blackboard extensively. Some teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs > to save paper for the college and hopefully altogether, since the > students can read the hand-out or put it on the computer for in class. > > I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that > function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to > the Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling > Blackboard to ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB > National Center. That's what they are there for, to help people > evaluate the accessibility and practicality of software and hardware > used by pling people. They are wonderful, and you can call them at > (410) 659-9314, extension 5. > > For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit > my blog. Here is a direct link to the article: > http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of-world.html > > On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Rob, >> This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know >> is >> that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. >> Have >> you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If you use >> jaws >> that is F for forms field or E for edit field. >> You could also call blackboard and ask them. >> >> I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work >> with >> jaws. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Spangler" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've >>> not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be >>> great. Thanks a lot! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my >>>> blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>>> Blackboard? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>>> Arts and Sciences >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:48:40 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:48:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question Message-ID: <4c8650e2.ca7bdc0a.1ac0.255c@mx.google.com> i have the ENV3. and love it. If you want, it's just about the same as the nv2. If you want more accesibility go to the samsung haven. Subscribe to blind users verizon: blindusersverizonphones-subscribe at yahoogroups.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin Young References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe, Just wondering, do you have to attend these courses in person. Also, are they free? Or if you have to pay, what's the price, and how do you hand in assignments? Thanks. Jorge On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > I already knew how to play Chess but enrolled in the Hadley course to learn > the math notation. Students are provided a free chess set that is a fine > one and sounds like what you are looking for. Perhaps one day we'll play a > match online? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] chess > > Hi all: > I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new > chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white > non-pegged, and black with the pegs. > Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? > > Thanks. > Jorge > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this > communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" > in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and > all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Sep 7 15:03:51 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:03:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <2B938FF4-4C5B-413A-BB5A-3AE7E21133E0@gmail.com> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <2B938FF4-4C5B-413A-BB5A-3AE7E21133E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <439819A9-0F6D-4977-ABEF-300C5DC149A3@mac.com> Hi Ignasi: Please tell me of any places you know, because I haven't found any good ones where I've searched. Thanks. Jorge On Sep 7, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I know you can easily buy one of those here in Spain and they can ship it to you, so if you really can't find anything let me know and I'll tell you where to look. > > IC > On Sep 6, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Hi all: >> I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white non-pegged, and black with the pegs. >> Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? >> >> Thanks. >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 7 15:10:34 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 11:10:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com><18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> Message-ID: George, Hadley courses are free and done via the mail or sometimes online. They are self paced distance education courses. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] chess > Joe, > Just wondering, > do you have to attend these courses in person. > Also, are they free? > Or if you have to pay, what's the price, and how do you hand in > assignments? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> I already knew how to play Chess but enrolled in the Hadley course to >> learn >> the math notation. Students are provided a free chess set that is a fine >> one and sounds like what you are looking for. Perhaps one day we'll play >> a >> match online? >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez >> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] chess >> >> Hi all: >> I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new >> chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white >> non-pegged, and black with the pegs. >> Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? >> >> Thanks. >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this >> communication is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" >> in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and >> all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 15:23:38 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 11:23:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> Message-ID: <4333A0784DCD4B2CA93979B3A2CC4AD9@Rufus> The course, like all their others, are free. You take them through distance learning and either mail or e-mail your assignments. I think the materials are available in various formats. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez [mailto:jorgeapaez at mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:49 AM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] chess Joe, Just wondering, do you have to attend these courses in person. Also, are they free? Or if you have to pay, what's the price, and how do you hand in assignments? Thanks. Jorge On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > I already knew how to play Chess but enrolled in the Hadley course to learn > the math notation. Students are provided a free chess set that is a fine > one and sounds like what you are looking for. Perhaps one day we'll play a > match online? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] chess > > Hi all: > I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new > chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white > non-pegged, and black with the pegs. > Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? > > Thanks. > Jorge > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this > communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" > in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and > all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa ez%40mac.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 7 16:27:59 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 09:27:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Phone number to reach NFB newsline Message-ID: <3FBCF5CF75914A359641F5386C4A1C19@windows4c0ed96> Dear list, I am wondering if someone could please send me the phone number for the NFB newsline? I placed newsline on speed dial a year or so ago, and now it seems not to be working on speed dial, and I have forgotten the number for the newsline service. And I usually check in with the newspapers and magazines about seven hours a week, so this is frustrating. Thanks, Ginnie From kat.bottner at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 16:47:58 2010 From: kat.bottner at gmail.com (Kat Bottner) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 12:47:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Phone number to reach NFB newsline In-Reply-To: <3FBCF5CF75914A359641F5386C4A1C19@windows4c0ed96> References: <3FBCF5CF75914A359641F5386C4A1C19@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: Hey list, I think you can get the number for NFB Newsline on the NFB website. www.nfb.org. I hope this helps. Take Care, Kat On 9/7/10, V Nork wrote: > Dear list, I am wondering if someone could please send me the phone number > for the NFB newsline? I placed newsline on speed dial a year or so ago, and > now it seems not to be working on speed dial, and I have forgotten the > number for the newsline service. And I usually check in with the newspapers > and magazines about seven hours a week, so this is frustrating. Thanks, > Ginnie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail.com > From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 17:19:45 2010 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 13:19:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Florida Students! Message-ID: Attention Florida students! Hi, for the past couple of years, the Spanish Translation Committee has been interpreting for our non-English speaking members during general session. Last year, we thought it would be a terrific idea to raise the funds needed for this event ourselves, and so we put on our first ever Salsa Night. This was a great success, and a hit at our national convention, so we decided to do it again in 2011. This time, our national convention is taking place in Florida, which is an awesome location for our Salsa Night, and we would like some local input and assistance in making this event an even greater success. We are looking for someone who can sit in and participate in our next phone conference, which will serve as our go-to person in Florida. This would include assisting with event planning, and coordinating with other volunteers and local businesses. The call will take place near the end of September. We are a great team to work with; we always get things done and have an awesome time while doing so. If you are interested in being part of our team, you may contact me directly at AlexanderA.Castillo at gmail.com Thanks for reading Alex From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 20:52:54 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 16:52:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Employment - Job Search Tips Message-ID: I occasionally get interesting tidbits like the ones below in my inbox and hope it is of some value to some of you. Also remember that this list features working professionals who, I am sure, would be willing to discuss their jobs with you using the very same information interview approaches described below.--Joe Orozco Subject: Employment - Job Search Tips Informational interviewing happens more frequently than you may realize. What Is Informational Interviewing? Informational interviewing is meeting, whether formally or informally, with someone to gather information about an occupation, company, or industry that can help you as you progress in your education, look for a job, or consider starting a small business. Informational interviewing happens more frequently than you may realize. Think of the last time someone asked you about your job, what you like or dislike about it, how it is to work for that company, or what you studied in school. Whether either of you realized it, you were having an informational interview. Informational Interviews Can Help You: Choose or refine a career path. Determine what to study at university. Learn how to break into a career field, industry, or company. Determine which skills you have and which skills you need to obtain. Learn from others who own or started small businesses. Job Searching vs. Informational Interviewing Do not mix informational interviewing with job seeking. You can be honest if you are looking for a job, but make sure the person you are interviewing knows the interview is for you to learn, not receive a job. During the interview, if you discover a position you want to apply for, wait until later to apply. Preparation Identify Your Target Find an occupation, company, or industry to learn more about. Decide what information you want to learn. Identify who you want to interview and how you can contact that person. Research before the interview so you can ask more pertinent and in-depth questions. Schedule an Interview You may request an interview over the phone, in person, or by letter, or in some instances your networking contact may make the arrangements. Phone interviews should be less than 5 minutes. In-person interviews should be 15 to 30 minutes. Informal Interviews Informational interviews can occur in all settings and occasions. If you conduct an unplanned interview, even though you may not be wearing interview attire or have a list of prepared questions, you can still make a good impression if you act professionally. What to Bring A small notebook A pen A résumé or a networking profile. You may want to bring both and determine which document you should leave with the interviewee, depending on how the interview goes. In some cases, if you bring a résumé, it may appear that you are expecting a job offer. If you decide to bring your résumé and you feel it would be appropriate for the situation, you may ask the interviewee to review it and give you suggestions. How to Dress Dress for the informational interview as you would for a job interview. Follow the dress code for the company or dress one step above it. Some informational interviews turn into job interviews. Before the Interview A day before the interview, verify the interview date, time, and location with the interviewee. Make certain you know how to get to the interview location. The Interview Make sure to: Be 10 minutes early. Have a firm handshake. Make eye contact. Mirror the interviewee?s body language. For example, sit forward in your chair if he or she is doing so. Listen. Keep to the time limits that you agreed to when you set the appointment. Introduce Yourself Briefly tell the interviewee about yourself and find commonalities with him or her. You may share your ?me in 30 seconds? statement, but keep in mind that the objective of the meeting is to gather information. Ask Questions Phrase your questions in a way that is appropriate for the relationship you have with the interviewee. Three Types of Questions You May Consider: Find out about an organization?s needs, expectations, and challenges. Find out what the organization has to offer you, but do not talk about compensation, vacations, or benefits. Ask for names of other people in the organization who can help you achieve your goals. Examples of Interview Questions: What are the positive and negative aspects of this work environment? What attributes does a successful person in this field possess? What is your typical workday like? Build Your Network and Get Referrals Invite the interviewee to give you advice. The interviewee may not have a job for you, but he or she may know of other employers who are hiring. Find out who else the interviewee suggests you contact. Follow Up Remember to follow up with the interviewee, but do not over-contact him or her. Assess the Interview After the interview, assess how it went. Ask someone, such as an employment resource center staff member, to give you feedback on your assessment. Below are some of the questions you may consider: What went well? What did not? What do you wish you had said or not said? What is your follow-up strategy? Interview more than one person in your area of interest. Send Thank-You Cards Remember to send a thank you note regardless of the outcome of the interview. Send the letter in a timely manner either through the mail or via e-mail. It can be handwritten or typed. Keep your letter brief, and make sure it does not have any errors. Avoid phrases that sound as though you are asking for a job. From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Sep 8 01:35:43 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 21:35:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC><2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com><93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC><8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <000e01cb4e40$92441540$b6cc3fc0$@org> Message-ID: <134239FE4F11432599EDD854B95CD435@Serene> The cell doesn't have a quarty keyboard ... If you have a BrailleNote Apex, I've heard you can use the Braille display as a Braille display for the cell and can text with the BN keyboard. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryann Migliorelli" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > Hi Justin, Verizon will be coming out with its own I phone pretty soon. > I > was just there yesterday getting my new Haven. That is what they were all > saying at their booth. > > By the way, the Haven is fully accessible in its menus, contacts, editing, > and texting. If you want a phone for just a phone and texting > application, > it's wonderful. It doesn't use the web at all. Unlike most of the L.G. > ones, everything it does is fully accessible including the calendar, > calculator, and other peripherals. The only drawback, at least to some > people is that is doesn't have a qwerty keyboard and you can't adjust the > speech. > > Have a great week. > > Regards, > Maryann Migliorelli > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Sep 8 01:51:25 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:51:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phone question In-Reply-To: <134239FE4F11432599EDD854B95CD435@Serene> References: <78D5232E31394259AD96E203B9B8828A@SonyPC> <2186CA0B-E490-47F7-A505-E116CC61F840@mac.com> <93AACCC9789B480BB6D6F0EF8B49001C@SonyPC> <8A33CF95-5621-4887-9DB5-FCD742171FB3@mac.com> <000e01cb4e40$92441540$b6cc3fc0$@org> <134239FE4F11432599EDD854B95CD435@Serene> Message-ID: <4E9819C0-78D1-4955-B3DB-737515241687@mac.com> You can also use the Apex for the iPhone On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:35 PM, Serena wrote: > The cell doesn't have a quarty keyboard ... If you have a BrailleNote Apex, I've heard you can use the Braille display as a Braille display for the cell and can text with the BN keyboard. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryann Migliorelli" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phone question > > >> Hi Justin, Verizon will be coming out with its own I phone pretty soon. I >> was just there yesterday getting my new Haven. That is what they were all >> saying at their booth. >> >> By the way, the Haven is fully accessible in its menus, contacts, editing, >> and texting. If you want a phone for just a phone and texting application, >> it's wonderful. It doesn't use the web at all. Unlike most of the L.G. >> ones, everything it does is fully accessible including the calendar, >> calculator, and other peripherals. The only drawback, at least to some >> people is that is doesn't have a qwerty keyboard and you can't adjust the >> speech. >> >> Have a great week. >> >> Regards, >> Maryann Migliorelli >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 03:06:49 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbbmacc O'Connor) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 23:06:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing the 2010 NFB of Virginia Scholarship Program! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello! This is a final reminder that the deadline for the NFB of Virginia Scholarship Program is in just nine days...on September 17th. We have up to 3 scholarships to award, in the amount of $1,500 plus an expenses-paid trip to our state convention. Even if you are attending school in another state, you are eligible for this program...as long as your permanent residence is in the Commonwealth. (Students attending college in the Commonwealth but whose permanent residence is in another state are also eligible.) I am re-attaching the application and message sent in mid-July. Please contact me, the committee chairman, with any questions. My contact info is listed in the application materials. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Corbbmacc O'Connor wrote: > Hello! > > Please distribute this message as widely as possible. > > Attached you will find information and the application form for the > 2010 National Federation of the Blind of Virginia James F. Nelson, Jr. > Scholarship Program. Winners will receive a scholarship for $1,500, > and an expenses-paid trip to the NFB of Virginia state convention in > Falls Church, Va. to be held November 12-14, 2010. Legally-blind > applicants from Virginia or attending school in the Commonwealth are > eligible. (Note that this program is restricted to legally-blind > students attending a full-time course of study during the 2010-2011 > academic year.) > > All materials must be RECEIVED by the Scholarship Chairman by > September 17, 2010. Please contact Chairman Corbb O'Connor with any > questions at corbbo at gmail.com or (202) 684-6130. All decisions of the > Scholarship Committee are final. > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 06:36:25 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 02:36:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <906926F8-E5B0-4101-AA4C-FB036B53CAF6@mac.com> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <18FF9673F78C4B92970DCDB341A113B8@Rufus> <906926F8-E5B0-4101-AA4C-FB036B53CAF6@mac.com> Message-ID: The Chess game that comes built-into Mac OS X is totally accessible with VoiceOver, but I don't know if you can play online games with it... On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hmmm. > Yes. > Let me know if you fine an accessible site. > I'd like to play online, I've just never found an accessible one. > > Jorge > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 06:38:40 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 02:38:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] chess In-Reply-To: <439819A9-0F6D-4977-ABEF-300C5DC149A3@mac.com> References: <0C259FF8-A81D-4C2C-AC72-90D57FF4FC8B@mac.com> <2B938FF4-4C5B-413A-BB5A-3AE7E21133E0@gmail.com> <439819A9-0F6D-4977-ABEF-300C5DC149A3@mac.com> Message-ID: <554EFF6C-22E0-4C22-A22F-2F6ABD8FC67B@gmail.com> Hello, The website where you can find it is http://cidat.once.es. The thing is in spanish but your name is Spanish so I'm guessing you won't have any problems to read it. You can find the full catalogue of products on that site, and a phone number you can call if you want to order. Good luck! IC On Sep 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi Ignasi: > Please tell me of any places you know, because I haven't found any good ones where I've searched. > > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > > On Sep 7, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> I know you can easily buy one of those here in Spain and they can ship it to you, so if you really can't find anything let me know and I'll tell you where to look. >> >> IC >> On Sep 6, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Hi all: >>> I play chess in local tournaments in New York,but need a new chess set, and I'd like it to be with the peg system--white non-pegged, and black with the pegs. >>> Anyone have any idea where I can buy one? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge Paez >>> >>> >>> --- >>> President And CEO: >>> Paez Production Networks >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note: >>> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >>> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. >>> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 8 07:53:33 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:53:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iBill Money Identifier Message-ID: We have been asked to circulate the following information. Dave Orbit Research would like to announce that the iBill Talking Banknote Identifier is now in stock and shipping. Priced at $99, the 1.5 ounce, pager-sized iBill brings an unmatched combination of affordability, compactness, accuracy and convenience. Among other features that set it apart from other such devices are the extremely high accuracy (better than 99.9%) and the near-instantaneous speed (less than one second in most cases) with which it identifies banknotes. In addition to natural speech, it can be set to announce the denomination with tones or vibration for privacy. The vibration mode also enables it to be used by the deaf-blind. It comes with an installed AAA battery which lasts over a year with typical use. The iBill can be ordered directly from the Orbit Research website www.orbitresearch.com, or by calling toll-free: 888-606-7248. Below is a text version of the product brochure. A PDF version may be downloaded from the Orbit Research website at: http://www.orbitresearch.com/rs/iBill%20Product%20Brief.pdf Carla Morris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- iBill Talking Banknote Identifier - Product Brief Affordable. Accurate. Compact Features: - Ultra-slim and compact “key-fob” design – 3.0 x 1.6 x 0.7 inch - Attaches to a key-ring or lanyard - Recognizes all US bills in circulation - $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100 (including the new $5 bill) - Provides instantaneous response – most bills identified in less than one second - Announces denomination in a clear female voice; tone and vibration modes provide privacy - Vibratory tactile mode for hearing-impaired users - Recognizes banknotes in any orientation - Ultra-high accuracy – better than 99.9% - Long battery life – over a year with typical use - Powered by a single AAA battery; easily replaceable by the user - Easily updateable to recognize new banknote designs - Clearly indicates un-identifiable bills – e.g. torn or badly defaced ones – does not incorrectly identify them - Ergonomic, user-friendly design provides ultimate ease of use – has just two buttons for operation - Durable, heavy-duty engineering-grade polycarbonate construction - Supplied accessories include installed battery, user manual in large print and audio - One-year warranty covering manufacturing defects Contact: Orbit Research 1-888-666-7248 www.orbitresearch.com David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 8 08:09:29 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 03:09:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Phone number to reach NFB newsline In-Reply-To: <3FBCF5CF75914A359641F5386C4A1C19@windows4c0ed96> References: <3FBCF5CF75914A359641F5386C4A1C19@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: If you go to: http://www.nfbnewsline.net/Nl2/NL2LocalAccessLookup.jsp you can look up your local access number. Dave At 11:27 AM 9/7/2010, you wrote: >Dear list, I am wondering if someone could please send me the phone number >for the NFB newsline? I placed newsline on speed dial a year or so ago, and >now it seems not to be working on speed dial, and I have forgotten the >number for the newsline service. And I usually check in with the newspapers >and magazines about seven hours a week, so this is frustrating. Thanks, >Ginnie David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 18:13:14 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:13:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Phone number to reach NFB newsline In-Reply-To: References: <3FBCF5CF75914A359641F5386C4A1C19@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: The number for the toll-free Newsline is 1-888-882-1629 Corporate can be reached at 1-866-504-7300Toll-. From them, you can find out the numbe for your state's Newsline representative, who can give you local Newsline numbers. Remember, using local numbers saves Newsline money! Every time you use the toll-free number, it costs Newsline! Save them money they can use to add new newspapers and magazines by using your local number, which works just the same as the toll-free number. The other option is to use a long-distance number if you have free long-distance or call from a cell phone. This number can also be obtained from Corporate or your state representative. You can also read Newsline online! Go to http://www.nfbnewslineonline.org/ and you can read articles online, "in your pocket" with a portable daisy player, or create podcasts of articles that you can put on your MP3 player or portable daisy player. With Newsline Online, your favoourites list is unlimited and browsing newspapers and magazines is very simple. I use the podable system to get articles that I can pout on my VictorReader Stream or NLS Digital Talking Book Player, but am considering changing to the In Your Pocket system, which will also work with my VictorReader Stream. You don't have to be tied down to a phone, and you can download each day's articles as you get ready for work, then rad the articles on the way to work, during your lunch break, or anytime you want! The only downside I've found is that there isn't a way to e-mail yourself downloaded articles. But you can keep the ones you download for as long as you want, so that's a great alternative to e-mailing it. You can also have entire newspapers and magazines, or parts of either e-mailed to you, so that's great too. I hope you'll look at NFB-Newsline Online as a possible alternative to the phone system, but remember that the phone system is always available should you not have Internet available, your Internet crashes, or you simply don't have anyting to download the articles onto. Enjoy, Jewel On 9/8/10, David Andrews wrote: > If you go to: > > http://www.nfbnewsline.net/Nl2/NL2LocalAccessLookup.jsp > > you can look up your local access number. > > Dave > > At 11:27 AM 9/7/2010, you wrote: >>Dear list, I am wondering if someone could please send me the phone number >>for the NFB newsline? I placed newsline on speed dial a year or so ago, >> and >>now it seems not to be working on speed dial, and I have forgotten the >>number for the newsline service. And I usually check in with the >> newspapers >>and magazines about seven hours a week, so this is frustrating. Thanks, >>Ginnie > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Wed Sep 8 18:39:33 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club Message-ID: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This has been something that has bothering me for a long time and mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about joing a organization for the blind said that she going to get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think about this. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Sep 8 18:56:34 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:56:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> Anmol: Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, I've seen that sort of stuff. Not to be harsh, but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? The NFB has done a noticable much more. Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my experience. Jorge On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This has been something that has bothering me for a long time and mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about joing a organization for the blind said that she going to get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think about this. > > Anmol > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 8 19:17:48 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 12:17:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1183523314.225027.1283827902285.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Hello Amy, Recently I took my first on line class using the Blackboard system. It was a three unit college class in the history of jazz. The version of blackboard I used was different than the one you are using, but I wanted to tell you how I took the weekly tests, and midterm and final, in case it relates to you. You might want to consider using a proctor or reader in your case as I did, for exams. I had the proctor sign in as me to the blackboard system, and read me the questions and input the answers in the disability services office computer. This is done frequently on my campus. I could have done the tests at home with my computer, but it was much slower, and I may have been distracted by dealing with my computer and screen reader quirks. But I should add this was the only part of the course I delegated, I did all the other many written assignments, the discussion boards, and the final concert review in my computer at home and submitted my work on line myself. Hang in there, you are really interested in the scientific concepts and transferable skills you can get from the content of the class, and not putting on display your computer skills, in my view. Just my thoughts, anyway, Ginny -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 hello all, as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a long time to read them with jaws. so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jewel S. To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on campus and asked if the technology support director could schedule a time to teach me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had mentioned it as something good to do, because Blackboard has given students of all abilities and disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses blackboard extensively. Some teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs to save paper for the college and hopefully altogether, since the students can read the hand-out or put it on the computer for in class. I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to the Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling Blackboard to ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB National Center. That's what they are there for, to help people evaluate the accessibility and practicality of software and hardware used by pling people. They are wonderful, and you can call them at (410) 659-9314, extension 5. For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit my blog. Here is a direct link to the article: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of- world.html On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Rob, > This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is > that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. Have > you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If you use jaws > that is F for forms field or E for edit field. > You could also call blackboard and ask them. > > I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work with > jaws. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Spangler" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > >> Hello all, >> >> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. I've >> not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that would be >> great. Thanks a lot! >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into my >>> blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>> Blackboard? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >> Arts and Sciences >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai l.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n et From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 19:23:20 2010 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (autTeal Bloodwortho) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:23:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> Message-ID: <76550D30019147FCA6E0B8DC9EC1C018@PC185582706413> i really don't think that anybody no matter the organization will ever change the steriotype that we all live with everyday. I attended guiding eyes for the blind in order to get my guide dog and that happens to be a lions club profited affiliation. Also indirectly the lions club has actually been really supportive since my injury but i usually had to go through a doctor of mine to get the help. As for the NFB, i am one of the unfortionate ones that doesnt get to go to the conferences. Not just because of money but rather i cant just drop everything for a weekend away; i have too many responsibilities. Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > Anmol: > Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, I've seen that > sort of stuff. > Not to be harsh, > but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? > > The NFB has done a noticable much more. > > Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind person talk to me > about "how good the Lion Club was." > > They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my experience. > > > Jorge > > > > > On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > >> Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in frunt of Walmart and >> ask for money to help the blind? This has been something that has >> bothering me for a long time and mostly the reason why I have not joined >> one. Lions do a lot of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak >> to a few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of reinforcing the >> sterotype that society has about the blind to me does not really helpful >> to our well being and holds us back in society. Its been something that >> has been bugging me for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if >> there are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally decide to >> ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about joing a organization >> for the blind said that she going to get involved in the Lions club and >> sit in frunt of Walmart. It would be interesting to hear what everyone >> has to think about this. >> >> Anmol >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Wed Sep 8 19:24:36 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 12:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> Message-ID: <527212.94606.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club has not done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given scholarship to blind students, supported many blind individuals to attend various conferences and trainings and are the biggest funders of the Lions World Services for the Blind in Little Rock Arkansas. Some may have negative oppinion and frankly I have personally witnessed somethings that LWSB could do better, yet its fair to say that LWSB has given opportunities to many blind people for independent training and get training for a job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. Infact they have done more for the blind not being a blind organization then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB are blind organizations run by the blind and for the blind so yes they have and will do more for the blind then Lions or any other organizations. I would join one because of the work they do, but I can not support something that requires asking for money to help the blind. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > From: Jorge Paez > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM > Anmol: > Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, > I've seen that sort of stuff. > Not to be harsh, > but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? > > The NFB has done a noticable much more. > > Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind > person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." > > They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my > experience. > > > Jorge > > > > > On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > > > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in > frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This > has been something that has bothering me for a long time and > mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot > of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a > few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of > reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind > to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us > back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me > for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there > are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally > decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about > joing a organization for the blind said that she going to > get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. > It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think > about this. > > > > Anmol > > > > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 19:26:36 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:26:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please In-Reply-To: <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> Message-ID: <5BBE16BA1A7346F9B4C387385C11B54F@Cptr233> Hi Students, This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already emailed one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or could be? I was thinking a TVI. Thanks, marsha __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5435 (20100908) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aphelps at BISM.org Wed Sep 8 19:32:01 2010 From: aphelps at BISM.org (Amy Phelps) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:32:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please In-Reply-To: <5BBE16BA1A7346F9B4C387385C11B54F@Cptr233> References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com><43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> <5BBE16BA1A7346F9B4C387385C11B54F@Cptr233> Message-ID: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02BEBE6E@blindmail.BISM.COM> Marsha, what kind of people are you looking for to interview? Thanks! Amy C. Phelps   410-737-2642 "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marsha Drenth Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:27 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please Hi Students, This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already emailed one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or could be? I was thinking a TVI. Thanks, marsha __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5435 (20100908) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 19:57:53 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:57:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: <527212.94606.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> <527212.94606.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anmol, Your position sounds a little contradicting. On the one hand you claim the Lions Club does a lot of good including: scholarships, conference sponsorships and trainings. On the other hand you claim you cannot get behind something that asks for money to support the blind. So, which is it? I would argue we could do plenty to educate the Lions Club on what the blind can and cannot do. They are a resource, and for example, could add that many more votes to this Pepsi Challenge campaign. And, if you think of it, how would that be different from asking for money outside a Walmart? Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club has not done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given scholarship to blind students, supported many blind individuals to attend various conferences and trainings and are the biggest funders of the Lions World Services for the Blind in Little Rock Arkansas. Some may have negative oppinion and frankly I have personally witnessed somethings that LWSB could do better, yet its fair to say that LWSB has given opportunities to many blind people for independent training and get training for a job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. Infact they have done more for the blind not being a blind organization then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB are blind organizations run by the blind and for the blind so yes they have and will do more for the blind then Lions or any other organizations. I would join one because of the work they do, but I can not support something that requires asking for money to help the blind. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > From: Jorge Paez > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM > Anmol: > Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, > I've seen that sort of stuff. > Not to be harsh, > but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? > > The NFB has done a noticable much more. > > Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind > person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." > > They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my > experience. > > > Jorge > > > > > On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > > > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in > frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This > has been something that has bothering me for a long time and > mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot > of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a > few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of > reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind > to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us > back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me > for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there > are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally > decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about > joing a organization for the blind said that she going to > get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. > It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think > about this. > > > > Anmol > > > > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa ez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh atia%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 20:35:55 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:35:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please In-Reply-To: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02BEBE6E@blindmail.BISM.COM> References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com><43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com><5BBE16BA1A7346F9B4C387385C11B54F@Cptr233> <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02BEBE6E@blindmail.BISM.COM> Message-ID: Amy, People who are effected by braille, either in their personal lives, professional lives, experts, advocates, and teachers, and maybe parents! I am going for that we need to teach our children braille, so someone who thinks this way would help. If you have ideas, let me know. Thanks! Marsha Drenth Marsha.drenth at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Phelps Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas please Marsha, what kind of people are you looking for to interview? Thanks! Amy C. Phelps   410-737-2642 "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marsha Drenth Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:27 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please Hi Students, This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already emailed one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or could be? I was thinking a TVI. Thanks, marsha __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5435 (20100908) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5435 (20100908) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5435 (20100908) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 21:15:22 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:15:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please In-Reply-To: References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> <5BBE16BA1A7346F9B4C387385C11B54F@Cptr233> <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02BEBE6E@blindmail.BISM.COM> Message-ID: Why not interview the Braille instructor at one of the NFB Centers? I don't remember his name, but the Braille instructor at the Lousiana Center for the Blind sounds really nice and very knowledgable from the articles I've read that included quotations from him. The Braille Monitor has included some articles written by him, also, on things related to Braille, and I've found them very helpful! Try calling the LCB and ask about a possible phone interview? Other than that, I would suggest contacting local TVIs, and maybe see about finding an adult who learned Braille at a young age and uses Braille in their everyday life, and an adult who didn't learn Braille early on but uses it in their life now. I'd also use the recent book "Letters to President Obama" as a resource...it has some great letters about how Braille ahs affected people's lives. Just my two cents, On 9/8/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Amy, > > People who are effected by braille, either in their personal lives, > professional lives, experts, advocates, and teachers, and maybe parents! I > am going for that we need to teach our children braille, so someone who > thinks this way would help. > > If you have ideas, let me know. > > Thanks! > > Marsha Drenth > Marsha.drenth at gmail.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Amy Phelps > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas please > > Marsha, what kind of people are you looking for to interview? > > Thanks! > Amy C. Phelps > 410-737-2642 > > "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do > the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his or > her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig > Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be > privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of > this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the > message and deleting it from your computer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Marsha Drenth > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:27 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please > > Hi Students, > > This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to > do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already emailed > one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am > needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or could > be? I was thinking a TVI. > > Thanks, > marsha > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5435 (20100908) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5435 (20100908) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5435 (20100908) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 21:25:54 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:25:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: References: <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com> <527212.94606.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think that sitting outside a store and asking for money straight up is rather rude. There are so many better opportunities for fundraising that gives everyone something. Here in North Carolina, I've enver seen a Lion's club sitting outside a store basically begging for handouts. the fundraisers around here are 1) selling a product, such as candy bars or T-shirts, 2) selling tickets for a raffle or sale, such as Belks Charity Days or Applebee's Pancake Breakfast fundraiser, or 3) going toward a particular purpose, such as assisting someone to get accessible equipment or repairing the Lion's Clinic, and they use various fundraisers to do it, including jars at stores (with information about the project) or cal centers. I personally don't like the idea of using a call center to raise funds because I hate call center calls, but it works quite well...when the NFB of NC lost the help of a call center last year, their funds were hurt severely. Maybe suggest differnet fundraisers to your local Lion's Clubs? Give them ideas of beter ways of raising funds. Don't just talk...do! The only way things will change is if you speak up and lend a hand. Maybe that Lion's Club doesn't know about the fundraisers that are out there...point them to things like Belks Charity Days, JcPenney's gift basket sells, giftwrapping at department stores and malls for fundraising, selling candy bars and wrapping paper, and all sorts of things like that. Schools are always doing fundraisers, so maybe ask your local schools what fundraiser companies they use, and offer that information to the Lion's Club? Just some ideas... On 9/8/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Anmol, > > Your position sounds a little contradicting. On the one hand you claim the > Lions Club does a lot of good including: scholarships, conference > sponsorships and trainings. On the other hand you claim you cannot get > behind something that asks for money to support the blind. So, which is it? > > I would argue we could do plenty to educate the Lions Club on what the blind > can and cannot do. They are a resource, and for example, could add that > many more votes to this Pepsi Challenge campaign. And, if you think of it, > how would that be different from asking for money outside a Walmart? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > > Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club > has not done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given > scholarship to blind students, supported many blind individuals > to attend various conferences and trainings and are the biggest > funders of the Lions World Services for the Blind in Little > Rock Arkansas. Some may have negative oppinion and frankly I > have personally witnessed somethings that LWSB could do better, > yet its fair to say that LWSB has given opportunities to many > blind people for independent training and get training for a > job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. Infact > they have done more for the blind not being a blind > organization then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB > are blind organizations run by the blind and for the blind so > yes they have and will do more for the blind then Lions or any > other organizations. I would join one because of the work they > do, but I can not support something that > requires asking for money to help the blind. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it > is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> From: Jorge Paez >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM >> Anmol: >> Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, >> I've seen that sort of stuff. >> Not to be harsh, >> but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? >> >> The NFB has done a noticable much more. >> >> Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind >> person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." >> >> They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my >> experience. >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> >> > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in >> frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This >> has been something that has bothering me for a long time and >> mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot >> of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a >> few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of >> reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind >> to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us >> back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me >> for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there >> are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally >> decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about >> joing a organization for the blind said that she going to >> get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. >> It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think >> about this. >> > >> > Anmol >> > >> > >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at >> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa > ez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh > atia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Sep 8 22:07:50 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:07:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] parent's attitudes and advocating with parents Message-ID: <0026F6C3F9A946BDA21AD58F71EA2628@Ashley> Hi all, Growing up my parents were supportive for my academics and accomodations. They went to IEP meetings and actively participated. However, when it comes to daily living and orientation and mobility I don't feel as supported. This is particular to O&M. Growing up I only had basics of O&M given to me twice a month. Then I got some good training through the Dept for the blind here. She was excellent because she encouraged you to ask questions of the public and explore your surroundings. She was a general COMS, certified orientation and mobility specialist but I think she included some discovery techniques in her teaching style. Anyway, I am so tired of my mom's negative attitude. I have a rather hard time with O&M and cannot reverse routes well. I have spatial deficits. It takes me longer to learn O&M but when I finally learn a place I am a pretty average walker and confident in that familiar environment. When I lived at Marymount university I knew that campus well and traveled on my own to restaurants, convenience stores and the nearby mall. I did more indoor travel there because I wasn't confident with streets. I say this because I give some background to show I was successful in O&M to some extent and carried out some ndependent living tasks at school except cooking. My mother isn't encouraging me to go places on my own. She is doubting my ability to navigate my community college campus. When I suggested I take metro access, our paratransit, home from some job development meetings she says things like "you couldn't find the bus to get picked up." and You couldn't find the right room upstairs." Despite those comments I am learning to navigate campus with another O&M specialist I found through the lighthouse. I will say though campus is challenging due to many open spaces such as the quad and few edges to follow visually and/or tactually with the cane. I'm so frustrated that I have to advocate for basic freedoms that most young adults take for granted. I sometimes doubt myself too and worry I'll prove to myself and my parents I'm not a competent traveler. I fear that I will internalize my mom's attitudes and stop challenging myself and lose my optimism. I know I can only improve by doing the skill I need to work on. How do you advocate and stand up for your needs when family members doubt your abilities? We're a close family and thing is also I generally respect my parents and their opinions so when they doubt my abilities I sometimes doubt myself too. When I have the funding through employment I'm moving out so this won't be an issue. But till then I need to do the best I can here. Ashley From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 23:08:10 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:08:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: References: <43745BA0-84EF-435E-85AB-328AE92CF64F@mac.com><527212.94606.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2D054792522F4761BECFD7CF2E65A8FD@MarcPC> Seems to me to be perfectly consistent to hold: 1) that an organization *spends* its money in ways that tend to benefit blind people, and 2) that the same organization *raises* that money in ways that tend to harm blind people. I don't see the contradiction. Like Jewel, I think that contacting the organization, explaining your concerns, and suggesting alternative methods of fundraising that raise money in ways that foster camaraderie, not pity, might go a long way. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > Anmol, > > Your position sounds a little contradicting. On the one hand you claim > the > Lions Club does a lot of good including: scholarships, conference > sponsorships and trainings. On the other hand you claim you cannot get > behind something that asks for money to support the blind. So, which is > it? > > I would argue we could do plenty to educate the Lions Club on what the > blind > can and cannot do. They are a resource, and for example, could add that > many more votes to this Pepsi Challenge campaign. And, if you think of > it, > how would that be different from asking for money outside a Walmart? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > > Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club > has not done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given > scholarship to blind students, supported many blind individuals > to attend various conferences and trainings and are the biggest > funders of the Lions World Services for the Blind in Little > Rock Arkansas. Some may have negative oppinion and frankly I > have personally witnessed somethings that LWSB could do better, > yet its fair to say that LWSB has given opportunities to many > blind people for independent training and get training for a > job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. Infact > they have done more for the blind not being a blind > organization then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB > are blind organizations run by the blind and for the blind so > yes they have and will do more for the blind then Lions or any > other organizations. I would join one because of the work they > do, but I can not support something that > requires asking for money to help the blind. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it > is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> From: Jorge Paez >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM >> Anmol: >> Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, >> I've seen that sort of stuff. >> Not to be harsh, >> but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? >> >> The NFB has done a noticable much more. >> >> Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind >> person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." >> >> They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my >> experience. >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> >> > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in >> frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This >> has been something that has bothering me for a long time and >> mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot >> of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a >> few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of >> reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind >> to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us >> back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me >> for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there >> are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally >> decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about >> joing a organization for the blind said that she going to >> get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. >> It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think >> about this. >> > >> > Anmol >> > >> > >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at >> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa > ez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh > atia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Wed Sep 8 23:14:26 2010 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:14:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Advocating for yourself? Message-ID: <001e01cb4fab$962462c0$9560c747@BRIAN> Ashley, Doesn't your mom know that access is a door to door service. Meaning they'd pick you up at your front door of your house and drive you to wherever you needed to go and vice versa. My mom was like yours in that she doubted my independence at first but when I finally lived in a dorm room, she was convinced that I was like any sighted person. I've lived in an apartment for over a year about 20 minutes away and I'm very successful. I have also gained tons of respect from my family. I take public and para transit and I get help on the public busses with assistance if I need it. I am planning on moving to Athens Georgia for a radio job and I can't wait to experience new things. If you want to email me off list email me at brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net. or call me at 412-862-8644. What is your phone number and email Ashley I'd love to talk to you and help you out. From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Sep 8 23:17:46 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:17:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] parent's attitudes and advocating with parents In-Reply-To: <0026F6C3F9A946BDA21AD58F71EA2628@Ashley> References: <0026F6C3F9A946BDA21AD58F71EA2628@Ashley> Message-ID: <4F42063255DB4A1785E6292AA9D162FB@AnitaAdkinsPC> First, you have noticed the problem, which means you know what you need to solve. One thought I have is for you to schedule a meeting with your Mom or Dad about this concern; do it when they are in a good mood, if possible. Also, before you attend the meeting, role play about what you plan to say and what you think your mother's responses will be. Then, create constructive responses to what you think she will say. If necessary, talk to an O&M specialist about it to see if he/she has suggestions. One thing you say is that she says you couldn't find the room upstairs or the bus to get picked up. I would recommend you start with the inside problem of finding the room since generally travel starts with basic skills and indoor travel and develops from that point. So, for instance, you might tell her that you could ask people around for verbal directions and direct their responses so that they are very specific. For example, if someone says the door is over there, you would face the direction you think they are referring to, and say do you mean walking straight from the way I am facing now will bring me to the door. Also, and I plan to do this when I go to my school to student teach here prior to my startdate in November, you could have someone with vision help to create you a tactile map of your route. Note that you will only want to do this if this building is one you will use often. Also, you might to draw a different map for the outside travel to and from your bus stop. In my own case, I am not going to create a map of the inside of the school because I have learned how to navigate confidently in such areas; however, I will map the layout of the room and where key landmarks are located, such as the equipment shelf for a particular activity. It is okay if you need a bigger map though. Also, practice with mental mapping, and explain this skill to your mother in your meeting. If necessary, you may want to ask an O&M specialist to sit in on your meeting with Mom. For further info on mental mapping, see the Blindness Blog because one of its posts directly deals with travel. The address is: www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com Also, you might consider attending Blind Industries and Services of maryland's or BISM's eight-month training program, 1-888-322-4567, because by doing so, you will not only gain travel skills, but you will also gain computer skills, cooking skills, and many other skills relying on alternative techniques of blindness, to my knowledge, you may also learn to create a resume. Now is the time to head out on this endeavor because being a competent and confident person who happens to be blind is essential for your future. The longer you wait, the longer it will be before you gain freedom from the constraints of blindness and the more likely life's circumstances will attempt to prevent you from entering such a program. These could include marriage, children, and even a job that you could not leave for an extended period of time. Eight months might sound like a large chunk of time, but really it is very brief, especially if you are in your early twenties and not employed or married yet. Just some advice. I hope some of it is helpful. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: [nabs-l] parent's attitudes and advocating with parents > Hi all, > > Growing up my parents were supportive for my academics and accomodations. > They went to IEP meetings and actively participated. However, when it > comes to daily living and orientation and mobility I don't feel as > supported. This is particular to O&M. Growing up I only had basics of > O&M given to me twice a month. Then I got some good training through the > Dept for the blind here. She was excellent because she encouraged you to > ask questions of the public and explore your surroundings. She was a > general COMS, certified orientation and mobility specialist but I think > she included some discovery techniques in her teaching style. > > Anyway, I am so tired of my mom's negative attitude. I have a rather hard > time with O&M and cannot reverse routes well. I have spatial deficits. > It takes me longer to learn O&M but when I finally learn a place I am a > pretty average walker and confident in that familiar environment. > When I lived at Marymount university I knew that campus well and traveled > on my own to restaurants, convenience stores and the nearby mall. > I did more indoor travel there because I wasn't confident with streets. > > I say this because I give some background to show I was successful in O&M > to some extent and carried out some ndependent living tasks at school > except cooking. > > > My mother isn't encouraging me to go places on my own. She is doubting my > ability to navigate my community college campus. When I suggested I take > metro access, our paratransit, home from some job development meetings she > says things like "you couldn't find the bus to get picked up." and You > couldn't find the right room upstairs." > Despite those comments I am learning to navigate campus with another O&M > specialist I found through the lighthouse. > I will say though campus is challenging due to many open spaces such as > the quad and few edges to follow visually and/or tactually with the cane. > > I'm so frustrated that I have to advocate for basic freedoms that most > young adults take for granted. > I sometimes doubt myself too and worry I'll prove to myself and my parents > I'm not a competent traveler. > I fear that I will internalize my mom's attitudes and stop challenging > myself and lose my optimism. > > I know I can only improve by doing the skill I need to work on. > How do you advocate and stand up for your needs when family members doubt > your abilities? > We're a close family and thing is also I generally respect my parents and > their opinions so when they doubt my abilities I sometimes doubt myself > too. > > When I have the funding through employment I'm moving out so this won't be > an issue. But till then I need to do the best I can here. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 23:24:09 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:24:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] parent's attitudes and advocating with parents In-Reply-To: <0026F6C3F9A946BDA21AD58F71EA2628@Ashley> References: <0026F6C3F9A946BDA21AD58F71EA2628@Ashley> Message-ID: My parents doubt I can marry, hold a job, and navigate my way around places. They were never supportive of O and M, but they were supportive of your same old academics that all parents are generally supportive of. But when I came to CCB, I didn't realize I'd have a lot of things waiting for me. I learned some street crossing techniques, including the near side parallel traffic being the traffic you go with. Discovery learning is great when you don't have such a time crunch and when you're not in a big hurry to get to a place. Another thing, if my family doubts that I can hold a job or do relationship related things, I actually have a boyfriend of four months, and get this, he's not even American. I'm not doubting my parents will support me in the end, but I'm afraid that they won't. Since my mother was unwed when she had me, there are questions about their view of my blindness. Some parents believe that disability is a punishment for one's sins. There was a couple who had a daughter who became known as Peru's Little Mermaid, and they believed their daughter was a punishment from God. What does that have to do with blindness? Same deal. People think blindness is a punishment depending on the faith views and stuff. Beth On 9/8/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > Growing up my parents were supportive for my academics and accomodations. > They went to IEP meetings and actively participated. However, when it comes > to daily living and orientation and mobility I don't feel as supported. > This is particular to O&M. Growing up I only had basics of O&M given to me > twice a month. Then I got some good training through the Dept for the blind > here. She was excellent because she encouraged you to ask questions of the > public and explore your surroundings. She was a general COMS, certified > orientation and mobility specialist but I think she included some discovery > techniques in her teaching style. > > Anyway, I am so tired of my mom's negative attitude. I have a rather hard > time with O&M and cannot reverse routes well. I have spatial deficits. > It takes me longer to learn O&M but when I finally learn a place I am a > pretty average walker and confident in that familiar environment. > When I lived at Marymount university I knew that campus well and traveled on > my own to restaurants, convenience stores and the nearby mall. > I did more indoor travel there because I wasn't confident with streets. > > I say this because I give some background to show I was successful in O&M to > some extent and carried out some ndependent living tasks at school except > cooking. > > > My mother isn't encouraging me to go places on my own. She is doubting my > ability to navigate my community college campus. When I suggested I take > metro access, our paratransit, home from some job development meetings she > says things like "you couldn't find the bus to get picked up." and You > couldn't find the right room upstairs." > Despite those comments I am learning to navigate campus with another O&M > specialist I found through the lighthouse. > I will say though campus is challenging due to many open spaces such as the > quad and few edges to follow visually and/or tactually with the cane. > > I'm so frustrated that I have to advocate for basic freedoms that most young > adults take for granted. > I sometimes doubt myself too and worry I'll prove to myself and my parents > I'm not a competent traveler. > I fear that I will internalize my mom's attitudes and stop challenging > myself and lose my optimism. > > I know I can only improve by doing the skill I need to work on. > How do you advocate and stand up for your needs when family members doubt > your abilities? > We're a close family and thing is also I generally respect my parents and > their opinions so when they doubt my abilities I sometimes doubt myself too. > > When I have the funding through employment I'm moving out so this won't be > an issue. But till then I need to do the best I can here. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 00:18:44 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:18:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Touch or Icon? Message-ID: Hello, Especially My Apple Fanatics, Which would you think is better, an iPod Touch 3rd Generation or an Icon? Granted, the price difference is almost a thousand dollars, but still, I am easily persuaded by clarity of voice synthesizer. Consequently, a friend of mine is selling her iPod Touch for $250. If anyone's interested, drop me a line. I'm not completely swept off my feet to compete against you and will let you know how to get in touch with the seller. Best, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 00:39:45 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:39:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Touch or Icon? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29A6AA7D-8308-468D-AE56-8F77BD015560@gmail.com> Hello, I have tried the Icon and was surprised by the device. I liked it and it was fairly small. But then... I saw its price :). The truth is that for me, an iPod touch is faster to use. Going through emails and web browsing is really, really great on iOs 4. Plus there is a lot of accessible third party software available for the iPod touch, and I don't think that exists on the Icon. What's true is that typing on an icon might be much faster, at least at the beginning. I would say that an iPod touch paired with one of those really tiny, foldable bluetooth keyboard is really a much cheaper and more versatile solution than the Icon. And if you aren't planning on doing lots of typing, you will not need to use the keyboard most of the time. An other fact that you should consider is that it will soon be possible to print out files from the iPod touch (you can send them to a wireless printer or a printer on your network, but this will only be possible after iOs 4.2 is out). I don't know if that's possible with an Icon. On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello, Especially My Apple Fanatics, > > Which would you think is better, an iPod Touch 3rd Generation or an Icon? > Granted, the price difference is almost a thousand dollars, but still, I am > easily persuaded by clarity of voice synthesizer. Consequently, a friend of > mine is selling her iPod Touch for $250. If anyone's interested, drop me a > line. I'm not completely swept off my feet to compete against you and will > let you know how to get in touch with the seller. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 00:47:27 2010 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:47:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Touch or Icon? In-Reply-To: <29A6AA7D-8308-468D-AE56-8F77BD015560@gmail.com> References: <29A6AA7D-8308-468D-AE56-8F77BD015560@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C882E9F.5030805@gmail.com> Yes, printing is now supported on icons. See my response on the other list for more info, and for the most part, I agree with the last poster. Thanks. Nimer J On 9/8/2010 7:39 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Hello, > I have tried the Icon and was surprised by the device. I liked it and it was fairly small. But then... I saw its price :). The truth is that for me, an iPod touch is faster to use. Going through emails and web browsing is really, really great on iOs 4. Plus there is a lot of accessible third party software available for the iPod touch, and I don't think that exists on the Icon. What's true is that typing on an icon might be much faster, at least at the beginning. I would say that an iPod touch paired with one of those really tiny, foldable bluetooth keyboard is really a much cheaper and more versatile solution than the Icon. And if you aren't planning on doing lots of typing, you will not need to use the keyboard most of the time. An other fact that you should consider is that it will soon be possible to print out files from the iPod touch (you can send them to a wireless printer or a printer on your network, but this will only be possible after iOs 4.2 is out). I don't know if that's possible with an Icon. > On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello, Especially My Apple Fanatics, >> >> Which would you think is better, an iPod Touch 3rd Generation or an Icon? >> Granted, the price difference is almost a thousand dollars, but still, I am >> easily persuaded by clarity of voice synthesizer. Consequently, a friend of >> mine is selling her iPod Touch for $250. If anyone's interested, drop me a >> line. I'm not completely swept off my feet to compete against you and will >> let you know how to get in touch with the seller. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Sep 9 01:26:51 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:26:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate Message-ID: Hi All: Just thinking to get a note taker. What do you think is better? A Packmate, or a Braillenote? Thanks. Jorge From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Sep 9 01:35:25 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:35:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club Message-ID: <20100909013525.5480.25143@web1> The NFB asks for money to help the blind. But I think the difference is how blind people are portrayed in the asking. In our case, the blind are portrayed as competent and exciting people who need to have funding in order to create and sustain innovative programs to spread that competence and excitement throughout the blind masses. From what I've seen of the Lions Club adverts and materials, blindness is seen as an awful limitation that creates considerable disadvantages beyond what most of us would be willing to agree with. For example, I saw a commercial on TV advertising the Lions Clubs where this young girl goes in for eye surgery. At the end of the commercial, the announcer talks about how it's wonderful that this girl can now ride a bike and how terrible things would have been if she hadn't had the surgery provided by the club. To me, that's the difference. What we need to do is to alert the Lions Clubs as to what they could do to help us by letting them know gently that their current tactics aren't working. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club has not > done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given scholarship to blind > students, supported many blind individuals to attend various > conferences and trainings and are the biggest funders of the Lions > World Services for the Blind in Little Rock Arkansas. Some may have > negative oppinion and frankly I have personally witnessed somethings > that LWSB could do better, yet its fair to say that LWSB has given > opportunities to many blind people for independent training and get > training for a job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. > Infact they have done more for the blind not being a blind organization > then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB are blind > organizations run by the blind and for the blind so yes they have and > will do more for the blind then Lions or any other organizations. I > would join one because of the work they do, but I can not support > something that > requires asking for money to help the blind. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> From: Jorge Paez >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM >> Anmol: >> Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, >> I've seen that sort of stuff. >> Not to be harsh, >> but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? >> The NFB has done a noticable much more. >> Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind >> person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." >> They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my >> experience. >> Jorge >> On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in >> frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This >> has been something that has bothering me for a long time and >> mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot >> of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a >> few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of >> reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind >> to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us >> back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me >> for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there >> are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally >> decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about >> joing a organization for the blind said that she going to >> get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. >> It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think >> about this. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at >> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Sep 9 01:31:06 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:31:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please Message-ID: <20100909013106.5101.30030@web1> You might try Denise Mackenstadt at cane.travel at gmail.com. She's a cane travel instructor, but she's also done work with Braille and other blindness skills courses. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi Students, > This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to > do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already emailed > one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am > needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or could > be? I was thinking a TVI. > Thanks, > marsha > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5435 (20100908) __________ > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Sep 9 01:38:50 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:38:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please Message-ID: <20100909013850.5101.99501@web1> The LCB Braille instructor's name is Jerry Whittle, and he can be found by calling 1-800-234-4166 and asking for him via the receptionist. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Why not interview the Braille instructor at one of the NFB Centers? I > don't remember his name, but the Braille instructor at the Lousiana > Center for the Blind sounds really nice and very knowledgable from the > articles I've read that included quotations from him. The Braille > Monitor has included some articles written by him, also, on things > related to Braille, and I've found them very helpful! Try calling the > LCB and ask about a possible phone interview? > Other than that, I would suggest contacting local TVIs, and maybe see > about finding an adult who learned Braille at a young age and uses > Braille in their everyday life, and an adult who didn't learn Braille > early on but uses it in their life now. I'd also use the recent book > "Letters to President Obama" as a resource...it has some great letters > about how Braille ahs affected people's lives. > Just my two cents, > On 9/8/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: >> Amy, >> People who are effected by braille, either in their personal lives, >> professional lives, experts, advocates, and teachers, and maybe parents! I >> am going for that we need to teach our children braille, so someone who >> thinks this way would help. >> If you have ideas, let me know. >> Thanks! >> Marsha Drenth >> Marsha.drenth at gmail.com >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Amy Phelps >> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas please >> Marsha, what kind of people are you looking for to interview? >> Thanks! >> Amy C. Phelps >> 410-737-2642 >> "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do >> the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his or >> her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig >> Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be >> privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of >> this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent >> responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are >> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this >> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >> communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the >> message and deleting it from your computer. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Marsha Drenth >> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:27 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please >> Hi Students, >> This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to >> do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already emailed >> one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am >> needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or could >> be? I was thinking a TVI. >> Thanks, >> marsha >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5435 (20100908) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> http://www.eset.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >> l.com >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5435 (20100908) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> http://www.eset.com >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5435 (20100908) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> http://www.eset.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 01:46:04 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 21:46:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: <20100909013525.5480.25143@web1> References: <20100909013525.5480.25143@web1> Message-ID: I agree. We need to respectfully tell them that their current tactics are not appropriate. A better commerical would be something like this: A blind college student walks into the classroom and sits down. Papers are passed out, but she can't participate because it's in print and she doesn't have any way to translate it. A Lion's Club rpresentative walks in with a KNFB reader or a laptop and portable scanner, and now she can participate in class! (I know this is not how it works in real life, but for brevity's sake, they could cut out the political bureaucracy junk). Just a thought. On 9/8/10, Jedi wrote: > The NFB asks for money to help the blind. But I think the difference is > how blind people are portrayed in the asking. In our case, the blind > are portrayed as competent and exciting people who need to have funding > in order to create and sustain innovative programs to spread that > competence and excitement throughout the blind masses. From what I've > seen of the Lions Club adverts and materials, blindness is seen as an > awful limitation that creates considerable disadvantages beyond what > most of us would be willing to agree with. For example, I saw a > commercial on TV advertising the Lions Clubs where this young girl goes > in for eye surgery. At the end of the commercial, the announcer talks > about how it's wonderful that this girl can now ride a bike and how > terrible things would have been if she hadn't had the surgery provided > by the club. To me, that's the difference. > > What we need to do is to alert the Lions Clubs as to what they could do > to help us by letting them know gently that their current tactics > aren't working. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club has not >> done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given scholarship to blind >> students, supported many blind individuals to attend various >> conferences and trainings and are the biggest funders of the Lions >> World Services for the Blind in Little Rock Arkansas. Some may have >> negative oppinion and frankly I have personally witnessed somethings >> that LWSB could do better, yet its fair to say that LWSB has given >> opportunities to many blind people for independent training and get >> training for a job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. >> Infact they have done more for the blind not being a blind organization >> then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB are blind >> organizations run by the blind and for the blind so yes they have and >> will do more for the blind then Lions or any other organizations. I >> would join one because of the work they do, but I can not support >> something that >> requires asking for money to help the blind. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller > > >> --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM >>> Anmol: >>> Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, >>> I've seen that sort of stuff. >>> Not to be harsh, >>> but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? > >>> The NFB has done a noticable much more. > >>> Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind >>> person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." > >>> They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my >>> experience. > > >>> Jorge > > > > >>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > >>>> Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in >>> frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This >>> has been something that has bothering me for a long time and >>> mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot >>> of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a >>> few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of >>> reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind >>> to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us >>> back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me >>> for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there >>> are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally >>> decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about >>> joing a organization for the blind said that she going to >>> get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. >>> It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think >>> about this. > >>>> Anmol > > >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at >>> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller > > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 01:47:34 2010 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:47:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jorge, It really depends on what you think would work best for you. The PacMate is windows based, so if you've already been using a pc that may be easier to learn. The BrailleNote, on the other hand, has everything already built into it; for example, a dictionary/thesorus, a recorder, a media center, a book reader, and GPS, etc. Personally, I prefer the BrailleNote because I believe that the PacMate doesn't do the best job of translating windows. Also, the PacMate is bigger than the BrailleNote. These are merely my opinions. Hope this helps, Jordan On 08/09/2010, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi All: > Just thinking to get a note taker. > What do you think is better? > A Packmate, or a Braillenote? > > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com “It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come.” --Dalai Lama From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 01:48:13 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 21:48:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Touch or Icon? In-Reply-To: <4C882E9F.5030805@gmail.com> References: <29A6AA7D-8308-468D-AE56-8F77BD015560@gmail.com> <4C882E9F.5030805@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Joe, I have not tried the IPOD touch, however, I got an Iphone 4. Let me start by saying that i love the phone itself, however, with voice over, one has to double tap in order to type. Which doesn't sound too cumbersome, but after the first day and being pretty accurate with my touch screen skills, it sucked. I am now giving my brother the beautiful Iphone. I also recently purchased a mac book pro, which works totally fine and I love. All that is to szy, that you should go to apple, and play with the ipod. If you like it, take it home nad play with it for a few days, worse case scenario, you want to return it (keep the box for the first month so you can return it if you have to). Or if you buy it from your friend, maybe you can play with it before hand. I also had the braille+ for a while, which I hear is very similar to the Icon. I loved my braille+ it was easy to use, navigating the internet was just as fast and accessible as it was with my Iphone. I know these two products are exactly the same, but aplle and LevelStar have a standard for all their machines, and they are usually similar. With that said, you can also just get an iphone and be able to do all of the above plus call and text people! Smile. Hope that helped a little bit. Mary On 9/8/10, Nimer Jaber wrote: > Yes, printing is now supported on icons. See my response on the other > list for more info, and for the most part, I agree with the last poster. > > Thanks. > > Nimer J > > On 9/8/2010 7:39 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> Hello, >> I have tried the Icon and was surprised by the device. I liked it and it >> was fairly small. But then... I saw its price :). The truth is that for >> me, an iPod touch is faster to use. Going through emails and web browsing >> is really, really great on iOs 4. Plus there is a lot of accessible third >> party software available for the iPod touch, and I don't think that exists >> on the Icon. What's true is that typing on an icon might be much faster, >> at least at the beginning. I would say that an iPod touch paired with one >> of those really tiny, foldable bluetooth keyboard is really a much cheaper >> and more versatile solution than the Icon. And if you aren't planning on >> doing lots of typing, you will not need to use the keyboard most of the >> time. An other fact that you should consider is that it will soon be >> possible to print out files from the iPod touch (you can send them to a >> wireless printer or a printer on your network, but this will only be >> possible after iOs 4.2 is out). I don't know if that's possible with an >> Icon. >> On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Hello, Especially My Apple Fanatics, >>> >>> Which would you think is better, an iPod Touch 3rd Generation or an Icon? >>> Granted, the price difference is almost a thousand dollars, but still, I >>> am >>> easily persuaded by clarity of voice synthesizer. Consequently, a friend >>> of >>> mine is selling her iPod Touch for $250. If anyone's interested, drop me >>> a >>> line. I'm not completely swept off my feet to compete against you and >>> will >>> let you know how to get in touch with the seller. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Sep 9 01:49:17 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:49:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] parent's attitudes and advocating with parents Message-ID: <20100909014917.17384.28384@web1> Ashley, First of all, I want to tell you that your experience is quite common and familiar to many of us, so we're right here with you. You probably don't have as many spacial deficits as you think. For most blind people, the problem isn't internal in terms of ability or external in terms of difficult environments, but is both internal and external in terms of attitude and availability of positive input to shape healthy attitudes. I would seriously consider getting involved with an NFB training center. There, you can get intense O and M training, as well as training in any other skills you like. You'll also have an opportunity to move out for a bit, thus giving you a break from those negative attitudes. LCB staff and students (for example) are very positive and encourage folks to do their best by way of both serving as cheerleaders and as role models. Other NFB centers are the same way. I can see two reasons why your parents might feel uncomfortable with you traveling independently. First, they probably haven't been around too many successful blind adults who feel comfortable with their ability to get around and who defy the stereotypes we're all so familiar with. Secondly, you may not have had much exposure to these same role models and may therefore not really know what you can do (or at least what's possible). That said, with no information comes no progress in beliefs and attitudes. Have you been able to connect with someone in your state from the NFB? Perhaps they could be of assistance to you? Good luck. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi all, > Growing up my parents were supportive for my academics and > accomodations. They went to IEP meetings and actively participated. > However, when it comes to daily living and orientation and mobility I > don't feel as supported. This is particular to O&M. Growing up I only > had basics of O&M given to me twice a month. Then I got some good > training through the Dept for the blind here. She was excellent > because she encouraged you to ask questions of the public and explore > your surroundings. She was a general COMS, certified orientation and > mobility specialist but I think she included some discovery techniques > in her teaching style. > Anyway, I am so tired of my mom's negative attitude. I have a rather > hard time with O&M and cannot reverse routes well. I have spatial deficits. > It takes me longer to learn O&M but when I finally learn a place I am a > pretty average walker and confident in that familiar environment. > When I lived at Marymount university I knew that campus well and > traveled on my own to restaurants, convenience stores and the nearby mall. > I did more indoor travel there because I wasn't confident with streets. > I say this because I give some background to show I was successful in > O&M to some extent and carried out some ndependent living tasks at > school except cooking. > My mother isn't encouraging me to go places on my own. She is doubting > my ability to navigate my community college campus. When I suggested I > take metro access, our paratransit, home from some job development > meetings she says things like "you couldn't find the bus to get picked > up." and You couldn't find the right room upstairs." > Despite those comments I am learning to navigate campus with another > O&M specialist I found through the lighthouse. > I will say though campus is challenging due to many open spaces such as > the quad and few edges to follow visually and/or tactually with the cane. > I'm so frustrated that I have to advocate for basic freedoms that most > young adults take for granted. > I sometimes doubt myself too and worry I'll prove to myself and my > parents I'm not a competent traveler. > I fear that I will internalize my mom's attitudes and stop challenging > myself and lose my optimism. > I know I can only improve by doing the skill I need to work on. > How do you advocate and stand up for your needs when family members > doubt your abilities? > We're a close family and thing is also I generally respect my parents > and their opinions so when they doubt my abilities I sometimes doubt > myself too. > When I have the funding through employment I'm moving out so this won't > be an issue. But till then I need to do the best I can here. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Sep 9 01:54:25 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:54:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello: I am a proud member of the Greater Ouachita Lions Club in Monroe, Louisiana. When looking at the Lions, we must remember that different clubs have different capabilities. I have been in three clubs due to having moved. Some clubs are quite small and have older members. This type of club simply cannot do a big fundraiser and selling something outside of Walmart works for them. I was in a very small club with seven members and the best they could do was to stand at an intersection and ask for donations. Amazingly, they raised about $600 in two hours. The Greater Ouachita club of which I am now a member is a bigger club and has members with the expertise to hold golf tournaments and run a bingo operation. I am a Lion because I believe in Lionism. Our motto is "We Serve". Our club has a program called Cub Sight that does vision screening for small children. Our Eye Center has done lots of surgeries and we provide glasses to those who can't get them elsewhere. My role in my club is toprovide information on blindness and consult when we are asked for a brailler or other equipment. The Lions are also funding the free cane program operated by the NFB. All this takes considerable money. Have a great day. Regards, Lion Robert Jaquiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in frunt of Walmart and > ask for money to help the blind? This has been something that has > bothering me for a long time and mostly the reason why I have not joined > one. Lions do a lot of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak > to a few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of reinforcing the > sterotype that society has about the blind to me does not really helpful > to our well being and holds us back in society. Its been something that > has been bugging me for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if > there are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally decide to > ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about joing a organization for > the blind said that she going to get involved in the Lions club and sit in > frunt of Walmart. It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to > think about this. > > Anmol > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From trising at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 9 02:06:21 2010 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:06:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate References: Message-ID: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> I have a Pac Mate BX40. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, it is the greatest piece of technology for the blind. If I could only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would choose. I have a strong Braille preference, both in reading, writing, and proof reading what I have written. I can have a whole library of Braille books stored on a Compact Flash card. I can also store 6 versions of the Bible. I have two hard copy Braille versions that take up something like four book shelves in my town house. I am the Secretary of the NFB of Michigan, and I write the minutes so much faster and with fewer mistakes on the Pac Mate, rather than on my computer with Jaws. The programs are very close to Jaws programs, so, the learning curve is quick if you are already familiar with Jaws. Also, if you are a technology geek like my husband, you can add other off the shelf programs to the Pac Mate because it is not a closed system. I have never owned a Braille Note, but I bet those are wonderful as well. I can only tell you about my experience. Terri Wilcox From amylsabo at comcast.net Thu Sep 9 02:10:25 2010 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:10:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <215393937.339733.1283998225192.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello jules and all, the problem that i'm having qwith the quizzes is the timer for them and, it won't display the information that i need to have jfw read them for me. i do better with online tests when they aren't timed. it's because i have a learning disability besides my blindness. thanks for your suggestions and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jewel S. To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 04:27:17 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 What is the trouble you are having with the tests on Blackboard, and what version of Blackboard is it? I took a quiz on Blackboard 9.1 and was surprisingly delighted to find that the test was not only fully accessible, but it was so easy to do I finished the test well within the usual limit, even though I am allowed twice as long for tests and quizzes. I finished it in 20 minutes, and enjoyed the quick navigation of Headings for each question and combo boxes and edit fields for answering multiple-choice and short answer questions respectively. I was using JAWS 10 for the task. ~Jewel On 9/6/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > You need to update jaws. I would download the jaws 12 beta. So far it > working great on my computer. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Amy Sabo > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > hello all, > > as to the topic of blackboard i'm having problems with it this semester. i > have used blackboard in the past which was accessiblwe with jaws but, now > it's not. my science class that i'm taking this semester has all of it's > tests and quizzes on blackboard along with the lecture notes from my > porfessor too. i have contacted him about it but, he is relutnant to email > me the quizzes and tests since there's a timer on them and, it takes me a > long time to read them with jaws. > > so, what should i do in regards to this? thanks again and, i will talk to > you soon. > > > hugs, > from amy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jewel S. > To: Ashley Bramlett , National Association of > Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:49:12 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 > > For Blackboard, I went to the Disability Support Service office on campus > and asked if the technology support director could schedule a time to teach > me how to navigate Blackboard with JAWS. She had mentioned it as something > good to do, because Blackboard has given students of all abilities and > disabilities trouble, and Wake Tech uses blackboard extensively. Some > teachers use it exclusively for hand-outs to save paper for the college and > hopefully altogether, since the students can read the hand-out or put it on > the computer for in class. > > I've used Blackboard and it's accessible, but I have not yet used that > function, so I'm unsure of how it works. I suggest either talking to the > Disability Support Services office on your campus, calling Blackboard to > ask, or calling the NFB Technology Center at the NFB National Center. That's > what they are there for, to help people evaluate the accessibility and > practicality of software and hardware used by pling people. They are > wonderful, and you can call them at > (410) 659-9314, extension 5. > > For aan article I wrote about this wonderful resource, you can visit my > blog. Here is a direct link to the article: > http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com/2010/06/unique-resource-for-blind-of- > world.html > > On 9/5/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Rob, >> This message was posted before but got overlooked I guess. All I know is >> that the latest Blackboard is supposed to be screen reader friendly. >> Have you tried searching for edit fields to type your responses. If >> you use jaws that is F for forms field or E for edit field. >> You could also call blackboard and ask them. >> >> I've used Blackboard but that not function. Not sure if it would work >> with jaws. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Spangler" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard 9.1 >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I am wondering if the below successfully got posted to the list. >>> I've not gotten any replies. If someone could help me out, that >>> would be great. Thanks a lot! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> On 9/1/10, Robert Spangler wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> My university just installed Blackboard 9.1 this semester. My >>>> Principles of Law course requires that we use the blogging function >>>> for writing purposes. I am able to get to the course and get into >>>> my blog; however, I am unable to find any options for composing or >>>> commenting on blogs. Does anyone have any suggestions for using >>>> Blackboard? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>>> Arts and Sciences >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of >>> Arts and Sciences >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >>> 0earthlink.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n > et > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 02:24:45 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:24:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: <20100909013525.5480.25143@web1> References: <20100909013525.5480.25143@web1> Message-ID: Dear all, The phenomenon known as tagging, I.E. having people collect money in front of stores and/or on the road, is one of the most unseemly forms of fundraising. However, it is not uncommon, and it is not only used by the Lions Club in order to fund blind individuals. When i was in high school, we all had to fundraise for our annual choir competitions which were always out of state or Canada. So we'd all get chocolate boxes to sell. Then NJ passed a law prohibiting the sell of food which had as its main ingredient sugar. So candy was out of the question and healthy snacks were just not racking up the dollars as our good friends the chocolate bars did. And so some people had the option of signing up for choir. It is not unusual to see high school students and other organizations in town asking for money at our local supermarkets. Mind you I live in a fairly high middle class neighborhood. All that is to say, that I don't think the Lions Club is using tagging as a way to hold back our movement. They use tagging simply as a means of fundraising without much thought to the consequences it might have on how people perceive blind individuals. While not much thought is given to the high school students asking for money, if they were to see that cane, people's pity meter would shoot up and say, "Oh, that poor blind person, let me give them a dollar." Which for me is so personal and offensive. There was a time in history not so long ago where that was all blind people could do, collect money in a cup. In many countries around the world it still happens and it is truly uncomfortable to put yourself in that situation. Knowing the Lions Club however, i know that it is often made up of people that just want to help. And if this is the only way they know how to they will do it, unless you volunteer and voice how the people they are trying to help feel. As with anything, every minority group has to have fought against prejudice in some form or another. The blind are no exception. While asking people to vote for the Pepsi project is basically the same as asking for money, we are doing the ask in ways that actually defy the way the public thinks about the blind. Many people I meet are astonished I can text. Well if I send out a mass text, email, tweet and put it up on my facebook status, that is breaking a lot of mis-perceptions about my blindness. Yes, I can use technology, and yes I am intelligent and articulate enough to ask you to please do this for me. This is really long. But please, if you really feel this way, and yet acknowledge that the Lions Club does support the blindness movement financially, then approach them, and speak your mind. Organize a fundraiser yourself, so that not only are you talking but also taking on initiative action which will earn you their respect. Hopefully no one raises money on our behalf for pity, but if they do, by organizing a fundraiser yourself and making it successful, you have just shown your value as an individual, and it will help them raise money not for pity but because they actually believe in our cause. Thank you. Mary F On 9/8/10, Jedi wrote: > The NFB asks for money to help the blind. But I think the difference is > how blind people are portrayed in the asking. In our case, the blind > are portrayed as competent and exciting people who need to have funding > in order to create and sustain innovative programs to spread that > competence and excitement throughout the blind masses. From what I've > seen of the Lions Club adverts and materials, blindness is seen as an > awful limitation that creates considerable disadvantages beyond what > most of us would be willing to agree with. For example, I saw a > commercial on TV advertising the Lions Clubs where this young girl goes > in for eye surgery. At the end of the commercial, the announcer talks > about how it's wonderful that this girl can now ride a bike and how > terrible things would have been if she hadn't had the surgery provided > by the club. To me, that's the difference. > > What we need to do is to alert the Lions Clubs as to what they could do > to help us by letting them know gently that their current tactics > aren't working. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions Club has not >> done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given scholarship to blind >> students, supported many blind individuals to attend various >> conferences and trainings and are the biggest funders of the Lions >> World Services for the Blind in Little Rock Arkansas. Some may have >> negative oppinion and frankly I have personally witnessed somethings >> that LWSB could do better, yet its fair to say that LWSB has given >> opportunities to many blind people for independent training and get >> training for a job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. >> Infact they have done more for the blind not being a blind organization >> then any other not blind organization. NFB and ACB are blind >> organizations run by the blind and for the blind so yes they have and >> will do more for the blind then Lions or any other organizations. I >> would join one because of the work they do, but I can not support >> something that >> requires asking for money to help the blind. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller > > >> --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM >>> Anmol: >>> Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a Walmart, >>> I've seen that sort of stuff. >>> Not to be harsh, >>> but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the blind? > >>> The NFB has done a noticable much more. > >>> Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a blind >>> person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." > >>> They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my >>> experience. > > >>> Jorge > > > > >>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > >>>> Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in >>> frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? This >>> has been something that has bothering me for a long time and >>> mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do a lot >>> of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak to a >>> few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of >>> reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the blind >>> to me does not really helpful to our well being and holds us >>> back in society. Its been something that has been bugging me >>> for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if there >>> are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally >>> decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about >>> joing a organization for the blind said that she going to >>> get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of Walmart. >>> It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to think >>> about this. > >>>> Anmol > > >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never >>> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at >>> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller > > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Sep 9 02:28:12 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:28:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> Ok. Thanks for your feedback. What about crashing? I've heard packmates crash a lot. Also, are there a lot of apps for the Pack Mate? And just wondering, if you can tell me, where do you get digital copies of the bible? Just wondering, because I never knew they existed. On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:06 PM, trising wrote: > I have a Pac Mate BX40. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, it is the greatest piece of technology for the blind. If I could > only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would choose. I have a strong Braille preference, both in reading, writing, and > proof reading what I have written. I can have a whole library of Braille books stored on a Compact Flash card. I can also store 6 > versions of the Bible. I have two hard copy Braille versions that take up something like four book shelves in my town house. I am > the Secretary of the NFB of Michigan, and I write the minutes so much faster and with fewer mistakes on the Pac Mate, rather than on > my computer with Jaws. The programs are very close to Jaws programs, so, the learning curve is quick if you are already familiar > with Jaws. Also, if you are a technology geek like my husband, you can add other off the shelf programs to the Pac Mate because it > is not a closed system. I have never owned a Braille Note, but I bet those are wonderful as well. I can only tell you about my > experience. > Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 02:51:26 2010 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 19:51:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please In-Reply-To: <20100909013850.5101.99501@web1> References: <20100909013850.5101.99501@web1> Message-ID: The braille instructor at the CCB is also very knowledgeable and has been teaching braille there since 1988. His name is Tom Anderson and he can be reached at 303-778-1130 ext. 220. Bill On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Jedi wrote: > The LCB Braille instructor's name is Jerry Whittle, and he can be found by > calling 1-800-234-4166 and asking for him via the receptionist. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: > > Why not interview the Braille instructor at one of the NFB Centers? I >> don't remember his name, but the Braille instructor at the Lousiana >> Center for the Blind sounds really nice and very knowledgable from the >> articles I've read that included quotations from him. The Braille >> Monitor has included some articles written by him, also, on things >> related to Braille, and I've found them very helpful! Try calling the >> LCB and ask about a possible phone interview? >> > > Other than that, I would suggest contacting local TVIs, and maybe see >> about finding an adult who learned Braille at a young age and uses >> Braille in their everyday life, and an adult who didn't learn Braille >> early on but uses it in their life now. I'd also use the recent book >> "Letters to President Obama" as a resource...it has some great letters >> about how Braille ahs affected people's lives. >> > > Just my two cents, >> > > On 9/8/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: >> >>> Amy, >>> >> > People who are effected by braille, either in their personal lives, >>> professional lives, experts, advocates, and teachers, and maybe parents! >>> I >>> am going for that we need to teach our children braille, so someone who >>> thinks this way would help. >>> >> > If you have ideas, let me know. >>> >> > Thanks! >>> >> > Marsha Drenth >>> Marsha.drenth at gmail.com >>> >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Amy Phelps >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:32 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas please >>> >> > Marsha, what kind of people are you looking for to interview? >>> >> > Thanks! >>> Amy C. Phelps >>> 410-737-2642 >>> >> > "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do >>> the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his >>> or >>> her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig >>> Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message may be >>> privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader >>> of >>> this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent >>> responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you >>> are >>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this >>> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >>> communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the >>> message and deleting it from your computer. >>> >> > -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Marsha Drenth >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:27 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: [nabs-l] ideas please >>> >> > Hi Students, >>> >> > This semester I am doing a research paper on the Braille Crisis. I need to >>> do a few interviews of people to include in my paper. I have already >>> emailed >>> one of the prospective persons that I plan on interviewing. But I am >>> needing a second person. Any ideas on who that second person should or >>> could >>> be? I was thinking a TVI. >>> >> > Thanks, >>> marsha >>> >> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5435 (20100908) __________ >>> >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >> > http://www.eset.com >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5435 (20100908) __________ >>> >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >> > http://www.eset.com >>> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5435 (20100908) __________ >>> >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >> > http://www.eset.com >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> > > _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 02:52:01 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:52:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] parent's attitudes and advocating with parents In-Reply-To: <20100909014917.17384.28384@web1> References: <20100909014917.17384.28384@web1> Message-ID: Dear Ashley, I am Hispanic, and in our culture, what you are goin through is very common. I have an incredible mother, who supported me in absolutely everything. To her I was as normal as my brother. Except when it came to O&M. She tought me how to cook, she taught me how to iron, she taught me how to do laundr. And she taught me everything a girl would want to know about make-up. But mobility just made her nervous. it wasn't so much that she had no faith in me, but to a sighted person, they just can't imagine what it'd be like if they were blindfolded and had to find the bus stop in the middle of the block. Or the train station, and the platform you need to get to. And as parents, those concerns are combined with the fact that they love you to pieces and never want you to get hurt. It doesn't just happen to blind sons and daughters, it happens to everyone. My mom's close friend, has a daughter my age. she says that she can never let her go out of the state, let alone the country by herself, because it's too dangerous. She has perfect sight, no disabilities, but while my mother will let me go to Paris for a whole summer without voicing any doubts about my ability to get around, her friend couldn't imagine letting her daughter go that far. As sons and daughters we have to understand where they are coming from and then try to address it. Your mother loves you a lot. But she doesn't understand what you feel. I agree with Anita's suggstions. I would also add, that maybe you should, 1. Push yourself to get familiarized with your neighborhoodif you haven't already done so. 2. If you are over 18, go ahead and sign up for para-transit. 3. Take your parents out to dinner, and talk to them about how you feel. It's really hard to do this, because it's an emotional subject and you don't want to hurt or disrespect them. But maybe prepare a written statement. I suggest doing it outside the home because it is a neutral environment, and so no one can just walk away and refuse to face the issue. 4. Really emphasize to your mom how her comments have robbed you of your confidence. It seems to me, that you really dont have that much trouble with O&M, if you were so familiar and comfortable with the businesses around your college. Point that out to your mom, I used to go shopping independently, I could meet with friends etc. 5. Finally, point out how your inability to be able to travel independently can affect you socially. Your mom wants you to have friends and boyfriends, and eventually get out of the house and be happy. tell her that, tell her al lthe benefits that being idependent can bring. Finally, do get in touch with your local NFB chapter if you haven't already, and if it is possible for you go with your parents to an NFB state convention. Get some accomplished blind friends and venture out in the world. And seriously look at and consider going to an NFB training center. But mind you that while eventually they will come to understand, it probably will never be to the level you want it to. When i go home, my mom still likes to link arms when we go out shopping. I am 20 years old, have travel outside the continent and made it back in one piece, I attend school half away across the east coast, but she is a mother, and that's what mothers do. Hope that helps. Mary F On 9/8/10, Jedi wrote: > Ashley, > > First of all, I want to tell you that your experience is quite common > and familiar to many of us, so we're right here with you. You probably > don't have as many spacial deficits as you think. For most blind > people, the problem isn't internal in terms of ability or external in > terms of difficult environments, but is both internal and external in > terms of attitude and availability of positive input to shape healthy > attitudes. > > I would seriously consider getting involved with an NFB training > center. There, you can get intense O and M training, as well as > training in any other skills you like. You'll also have an opportunity > to move out for a bit, thus giving you a break from those negative > attitudes. LCB staff and students (for example) are very positive and > encourage folks to do their best by way of both serving as cheerleaders > and as role models. Other NFB centers are the same way. > > I can see two reasons why your parents might feel uncomfortable with > you traveling independently. First, they probably haven't been around > too many successful blind adults who feel comfortable with their > ability to get around and who defy the stereotypes we're all so > familiar with. Secondly, you may not have had much exposure to these > same role models and may therefore not really know what you can do (or > at least what's possible). That said, with no information comes no > progress in beliefs and attitudes. Have you been able to connect with > someone in your state from the NFB? Perhaps they could be of assistance > to you? Good luck. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hi all, > >> Growing up my parents were supportive for my academics and >> accomodations. They went to IEP meetings and actively participated. >> However, when it comes to daily living and orientation and mobility I >> don't feel as supported. This is particular to O&M. Growing up I only >> had basics of O&M given to me twice a month. Then I got some good >> training through the Dept for the blind here. She was excellent >> because she encouraged you to ask questions of the public and explore >> your surroundings. She was a general COMS, certified orientation and >> mobility specialist but I think she included some discovery techniques >> in her teaching style. > >> Anyway, I am so tired of my mom's negative attitude. I have a rather >> hard time with O&M and cannot reverse routes well. I have spatial >> deficits. >> It takes me longer to learn O&M but when I finally learn a place I am a >> pretty average walker and confident in that familiar environment. >> When I lived at Marymount university I knew that campus well and >> traveled on my own to restaurants, convenience stores and the nearby mall. >> I did more indoor travel there because I wasn't confident with streets. > >> I say this because I give some background to show I was successful in >> O&M to some extent and carried out some ndependent living tasks at >> school except cooking. > > >> My mother isn't encouraging me to go places on my own. She is doubting >> my ability to navigate my community college campus. When I suggested I >> take metro access, our paratransit, home from some job development >> meetings she says things like "you couldn't find the bus to get picked >> up." and You couldn't find the right room upstairs." >> Despite those comments I am learning to navigate campus with another >> O&M specialist I found through the lighthouse. >> I will say though campus is challenging due to many open spaces such as >> the quad and few edges to follow visually and/or tactually with the cane. > >> I'm so frustrated that I have to advocate for basic freedoms that most >> young adults take for granted. >> I sometimes doubt myself too and worry I'll prove to myself and my >> parents I'm not a competent traveler. >> I fear that I will internalize my mom's attitudes and stop challenging >> myself and lose my optimism. > >> I know I can only improve by doing the skill I need to work on. >> How do you advocate and stand up for your needs when family members >> doubt your abilities? >> We're a close family and thing is also I generally respect my parents >> and their opinions so when they doubt my abilities I sometimes doubt >> myself too. > >> When I have the funding through employment I'm moving out so this won't >> be an issue. But till then I need to do the best I can here. > >> Ashley > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 03:10:49 2010 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (autTeal Bloodwortho) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:10:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club References: <262882.61445.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: you are my hero You worded your defense very well. Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > Hello: > > I am a proud member of the Greater Ouachita Lions Club in Monroe, > Louisiana. When looking at the Lions, we must remember that different > clubs have different capabilities. I have been in three clubs due to > having moved. Some clubs are quite small and have older members. This type > of club simply cannot do a big fundraiser and selling something outside of > Walmart works for them. I was in a very small club with seven members and > the best they could do was to stand at an intersection and ask for > donations. Amazingly, they raised about $600 in two hours. The Greater > Ouachita club of which I am now a member is a bigger club and has members > with the expertise to hold golf tournaments and run a bingo operation. > > I am a Lion because I believe in Lionism. Our motto is "We Serve". Our > club has a program called Cub Sight that does vision screening for small > children. Our Eye Center has done lots of surgeries and we provide glasses > to those who can't get them elsewhere. My role in my club is toprovide > information on blindness and consult when we are asked for a brailler or > other equipment. The Lions are also funding the free cane program operated > by the NFB. All this takes considerable money. Have a great day. > > Regards, > > Lion Robert Jaquiss > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:39 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club > > >> Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit in frunt of Walmart and >> ask for money to help the blind? This has been something that has >> bothering me for a long time and mostly the reason why I have not joined >> one. Lions do a lot of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak >> to a few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of reinforcing the >> sterotype that society has about the blind to me does not really helpful >> to our well being and holds us back in society. Its been something that >> has been bugging me for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if >> there are other blind individuals who feel the same. I finally decide to >> ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned about joing a organization >> for the blind said that she going to get involved in the Lions club and >> sit in frunt of Walmart. It would be interesting to hear what everyone >> has to think about this. >> >> Anmol >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From trising at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 9 02:56:31 2010 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:56:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> Message-ID: I just had to consult my techno geek husband who teaches people how to use access tech what an app was! Sorry, I did not know. He says, yes, there are a lot of apps you can install on the Pac Mate. Crashing has become almost nonexistent since the upgrade to the Pacmate Omni. I will not lie, early versions of the Pac Mate did crash a lot. However, the Omni does not. As to the Bible, if you are blind, you can get several versions that work well on note takers from Optasia Ministries. I am sorry, I do not have their link, but if you put this into Google, I bet you could find it. Also, someone else may have the direct link. I hope this helps. Terri Wilcox From kaybaycar at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 03:22:59 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 22:22:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> Message-ID: Well, I have had experience with pacmates crashing. Of course, this was a few years ago, so I may be a little out of date. I had to start using a laptop full time because I went through 3 pacmates. Also, the pacmate used to eat some of my files. I have heard that this has happened to other people as well. I am using a braille note apex now, and I am a little confused about some things because this I am rather new at it, but I like it. I haven't had battery problems with it, and it hasn't been randomly erasing my files. About the Bible. You can find several different versions on bookshare. They have the whole bible that you can download, or you can download some of the books individually. It's pretty awesome! On 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ok. > Thanks for your feedback. > What about crashing? > I've heard packmates crash a lot. > > Also, are there a lot of apps for the Pack Mate? > > And just wondering, if you can tell me, where do you get digital copies of > the bible? > > Just wondering, because I never knew they existed. > > > > > On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:06 PM, trising wrote: > >> I have a Pac Mate BX40. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, it is >> the greatest piece of technology for the blind. If I could >> only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would choose. I have >> a strong Braille preference, both in reading, writing, and >> proof reading what I have written. I can have a whole library of Braille >> books stored on a Compact Flash card. I can also store 6 >> versions of the Bible. I have two hard copy Braille versions that take up >> something like four book shelves in my town house. I am >> the Secretary of the NFB of Michigan, and I write the minutes so much >> faster and with fewer mistakes on the Pac Mate, rather than on >> my computer with Jaws. The programs are very close to Jaws programs, so, >> the learning curve is quick if you are already familiar >> with Jaws. Also, if you are a technology geek like my husband, you can add >> other off the shelf programs to the Pac Mate because it >> is not a closed system. I have never owned a Braille Note, but I bet those >> are wonderful as well. I can only tell you about my >> experience. >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From treyman19 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 05:50:49 2010 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 00:50:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi I think the Pac-Mat is better because you can use all of the off the shelve programs. I have I an a extra that I would like to get rid of so if you want to talk just let me know. On 9/8/10, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Well, I have had experience with pacmates crashing. Of course, this > was a few years ago, so I may be a little out of date. I had to start > using a laptop full time because I went through 3 pacmates. > > Also, the pacmate used to eat some of my files. I have heard that > this has happened to other people as well. > > I am using a braille note apex now, and I am a little confused about > some things because this I am rather new at it, but I like it. I > haven't had battery problems with it, and it hasn't been randomly > erasing my files. > > About the Bible. You can find several different versions on > bookshare. They have the whole bible that you can download, or you > can download some of the books individually. It's pretty awesome! > > > > On 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Ok. >> Thanks for your feedback. >> What about crashing? >> I've heard packmates crash a lot. >> >> Also, are there a lot of apps for the Pack Mate? >> >> And just wondering, if you can tell me, where do you get digital copies of >> the bible? >> >> Just wondering, because I never knew they existed. >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:06 PM, trising wrote: >> >>> I have a Pac Mate BX40. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, it is >>> the greatest piece of technology for the blind. If I could >>> only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would choose. I have >>> a strong Braille preference, both in reading, writing, and >>> proof reading what I have written. I can have a whole library of Braille >>> books stored on a Compact Flash card. I can also store 6 >>> versions of the Bible. I have two hard copy Braille versions that take up >>> something like four book shelves in my town house. I am >>> the Secretary of the NFB of Michigan, and I write the minutes so much >>> faster and with fewer mistakes on the Pac Mate, rather than on >>> my computer with Jaws. The programs are very close to Jaws programs, so, >>> the learning curve is quick if you are already familiar >>> with Jaws. Also, if you are a technology geek like my husband, you can >>> add >>> other off the shelf programs to the Pac Mate because it >>> is not a closed system. I have never owned a Braille Note, but I bet >>> those >>> are wonderful as well. I can only tell you about my >>> experience. >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com > -- Roosevelt Bradley From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 9 06:34:11 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 23:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Lions Club In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <249789.86067.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This is great the discussion on the Lions Club and its role in assisting the blind. Joe my position is not contradicting or at least I do not think so. I do stand by my clame that the Lions clubs do a lot of good for the blind including the projects that I mentioned and those that Rob mentioned. However, all of these projects do require mone and therefore fundraising is necessary, but raising money in a way which feeds into what society already thinks about the blind that we are a charity case unable to work therefore must result in begging for money is not really helpful. As Rob mentioned that every Lion Club must evaluate their ability and yes some may be able to hold large fundraisers such as the golf tornaments and others must do smaller fundraisers such as selling candybars, but stand on the street corner even though raised your Lions Club $600 reinforces the false proseption that society holds about blind people. Having said that, I think there is nothing wrong withwriting letters or making phone calls asking for donations because all charities including the blind charities such as the NFB and ACB have to do that. It’s just the nature of running a non-profit organization and it does not reinforces the negative attitude about blindness because the purpose is clear to raise money to continue the work the Lions are doing and meet its purpose. There is nothing wrong with asking the Lions to go vote for the NFB Youth Slam in the Pepsi Challenge because the Lions are a friend to the blind interested in our well-being and there is a challenge for a group which gets the most votes for a large amount of money and the NFB is asking all their friends to go vote for the NFB. The difference is that we are not standing in frunt of Walmart saying “would you like to give money to help the blind”? Instead we are saying “the NFB Youth Slam is competing against a number of sighted kids for some money and would you go vote for the NFB because you support our work and are proud that we are competing in something tuff?” Having said all that the Lions are good people with good intentions and reinforcing the negative attitudes about blindness is not something they are intending. So I think that we as blind people collectively should inform the Lions that we do not agree with this and it would really help if the two major blind organizations the NFB and ACB would do the same. Anmol --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > From: Joe Orozco > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 2:57 PM > Anmol, > > Your position sounds a little contradicting.  On the > one hand you claim the > Lions Club does a lot of good including: scholarships, > conference > sponsorships and trainings.  On the other hand you > claim you cannot get > behind something that asks for money to support the > blind.  So, which is it? > > I would argue we could do plenty to educate the Lions Club > on what the blind > can and cannot do.  They are a resource, and for > example, could add that > many more votes to this Pepsi Challenge campaign.  > And, if you think of it, > how would that be different from asking for money outside a > Walmart? > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > > Well George I would respectfully disagree that the Lions > Club > has not done much to help the blind. Many Lions have given > > scholarship to blind students, supported many blind > individuals > to attend various conferences and trainings and are the > biggest > funders of the Lions World Services for the Blind in Little > > Rock Arkansas. Some may have negative oppinion and frankly > I > have personally witnessed somethings that LWSB could do > better, > yet its fair to say that LWSB has given opportunities to > many > blind people for independent training and get training for > a > job. So the Lions have done alot of good for the blind. > Infact > they have done more for the blind not being a blind > organization then any other not blind organization. NFB and > ACB > are blind organizations run by the blind and for the blind > so > yes they have and will do more for the blind then Lions or > any > other organizations. I would join one because of the work > they > do, but I can not support something that > requires asking for money to help the blind. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > > sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; > but it > is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jorge Paez > wrote: > > > From: Jorge Paez > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lions Club > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:56 PM > > Anmol: > > Yes, it bothers me much--though I don't have a > Walmart, > > I've seen that sort of stuff. > > Not to be harsh, > > but what has the "Lions Club" ever done for the > blind? > > > > The NFB has done a noticable much more. > > > > Sorry if I'm being critical but I've never seen a > blind > > person talk to me about "how good the Lion Club was." > > > > They help, I know, but never the blind, not in my > > experience. > > > > > > Jorge > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > > > > > Does it bother any of you when the Lions Club sit > in > > frunt of Walmart and ask for money to help the blind? > This > > has been something that has bothering me for a long > time and > > mostly the reason why I have not joined one. Lions do > a lot > > of good for the blind and I have been lucky to speak > to a > > few Lions Clubs, but helping the blind in expense of > > reinforcing the sterotype that society has about the > blind > > to me does not really helpful to our well being and > holds us > > back in society. Its been something that has been > bugging me > > for years, but I was not sure if it is just me or if > there > > are other blind individuals who feel the same. I > finally > > decide to ask when a friend of mine who has mentioned > about > > joing a organization for the blind said that she going > to > > get involved in the Lions club and sit in frunt of > Walmart. > > It would be interesting to hear what everyone has to > think > > about this. > > > > > > Anmol > > > > > > > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they > never > > make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning > at > > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your > > account info for nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa > ez%40mac.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbh > atia%40yahoo.com > > > > >       > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 07:33:44 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 03:33:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Touch or Icon? In-Reply-To: References: <29A6AA7D-8308-468D-AE56-8F77BD015560@gmail.com> <4C882E9F.5030805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <91610F94-4A0E-4DDB-AD76-69F6232D07C7@gmail.com> YOu don't necessarily have to double tap to type. You can change the typing mode on the fly by using the roter. I always use touch typing which does not require double tapping at all and is pretty efficient. This is only possible with iOs for. With iOs 3 you will indeed need to double tap or split tap to type. On Sep 8, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello Joe, > I have not tried the IPOD touch, however, I got an Iphone 4. Let me > start by saying that i love the phone itself, however, with voice > over, one has to double tap in order to type. Which doesn't sound too > cumbersome, but after the first day and being pretty accurate with my > touch screen skills, it sucked. I am now giving my brother the > beautiful Iphone. I also recently purchased a mac book pro, which > works totally fine and I love. All that is to szy, that you should go > to apple, and play with the ipod. If you like it, take it home nad > play with it for a few days, worse case scenario, you want to return > it (keep the box for the first month so you can return it if you have > to). Or if you buy it from your friend, maybe you can play with it > before hand. I also had the braille+ for a while, which I hear is very > similar to the Icon. I loved my braille+ it was easy to use, > navigating the internet was just as fast and accessible as it was with > my Iphone. > I know these two products are exactly the same, but aplle and > LevelStar have a standard for all their machines, and they are usually > similar. With that said, you can also just get an iphone and be able > to do all of the above plus call and text people! Smile. > Hope that helped a little bit. > Mary > > > On 9/8/10, Nimer Jaber wrote: >> Yes, printing is now supported on icons. See my response on the other >> list for more info, and for the most part, I agree with the last poster. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Nimer J >> >> On 9/8/2010 7:39 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I have tried the Icon and was surprised by the device. I liked it and it >>> was fairly small. But then... I saw its price :). The truth is that for >>> me, an iPod touch is faster to use. Going through emails and web browsing >>> is really, really great on iOs 4. Plus there is a lot of accessible third >>> party software available for the iPod touch, and I don't think that exists >>> on the Icon. What's true is that typing on an icon might be much faster, >>> at least at the beginning. I would say that an iPod touch paired with one >>> of those really tiny, foldable bluetooth keyboard is really a much cheaper >>> and more versatile solution than the Icon. And if you aren't planning on >>> doing lots of typing, you will not need to use the keyboard most of the >>> time. An other fact that you should consider is that it will soon be >>> possible to print out files from the iPod touch (you can send them to a >>> wireless printer or a printer on your network, but this will only be >>> possible after iOs 4.2 is out). I don't know if that's possible with an >>> Icon. >>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, Especially My Apple Fanatics, >>>> >>>> Which would you think is better, an iPod Touch 3rd Generation or an Icon? >>>> Granted, the price difference is almost a thousand dollars, but still, I >>>> am >>>> easily persuaded by clarity of voice synthesizer. Consequently, a friend >>>> of >>>> mine is selling her iPod Touch for $250. If anyone's interested, drop me >>>> a >>>> line. I'm not completely swept off my feet to compete against you and >>>> will >>>> let you know how to get in touch with the seller. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe Orozco >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the > most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of > teachers." > Charles W. Eliot > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 9 07:52:27 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:52:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is no absolute answer to that question. It depends on what you want to do. If you need to sync e-mail, calendar, use MS Office files extensively, then the Pac Mate is probably a better choice. If you do stuff without having to sync or collaborate with others, the Braille Note may be easier. Dave At 08:26 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote: >Hi All: >Just thinking to get a note taker. >What do you think is better? >A Packmate, or a Braillenote? > > >Thanks. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 14:27:22 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 10:27:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: I've had the rare privilege of using all three leading notetakers for an extended period of time. In terms of software, I believe the Pac Mate is superior to the BrailleNote family and Sense products. In terms of portability, I think it is a distant last place. Both the Braille and QWERTY models are larger than necessary and defeat the concept of a notetaker. I believe the life span of the Pac Mate will be rather short unless Freedom Scientific decides to keep pace with Windows 7. I wound up choosing the BSP for its relative portability and fantastic quiet keyboard. I think it has the most potential and will hopefully be the first to feature an open SDK to expand functionality. This last is merely a personal projection, not at all based on hard evidence. Best, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 14:53:09 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 07:53:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hey... don't forget, we're voting again! Message-ID: Hey fellow nabsters! As you know by now, we are at it again; we are pushing twards that pepsi refresh grant to help us fund youth slam! Many of you have heard of the amazing opportunity this has been for our youth in the past, many of you have been those youth and many others have been mentors in this exciting program. Well, we have the opportunity to make youth slam 2011 a reality! How; well I’ll tell you!... Vote! Vote! Vote! Actually, it is just that simple, because you can vote in three different ways as mentioned below: 1. Text Message: Simply put the number 101913 into the body of a text, and send that text to 73774. *Standard text-messaging rates apply 2. Go to www.refresheverything.com/nfbyouthslam , click the link to vote, and then choose the log in using Facebook option. Once you’re successfully logged in, click the vote button on our page again and the vote link will disappear and you'll have logged your vote! 3. Go to www.refresheverything.com/nfbyouthslam , click the link to vote, and then choose the sign in directly with Pepsi option. Once you’re successfully logged in, click the vote button on our page again and the vote link will disappear and you'll have logged your vote! I’ve been voting, and I’m going to hand out flyers to people on my campus, and ask friends to get in on the voting too! Thank you all for helping to make this a reality! -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 15:46:04 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:46:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram Message-ID: I am taking physio psych next semester, and I will learn more about the brain then I probably care to know, but that's the class. So, does anyone know where i can purchase a tactile map of the brain as i know it is complex, and I am sure that having one will greatly help me. It needs to be really detailed, but I'll take any leads. Having a map with only major parts would be better than nothing and help me to orient myself if nothing else. Thanks Cindy From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 16:26:41 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 12:26:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A3B9C57-0455-4DF5-B8FD-01A5C495316A@gmail.com> I'd check American Printing House www.aph.org I remember using a tactile anatomy atlas they produced. It might be more cost effective to hire a reader who could help the diagrams. Good luck. Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I am taking physio psych next semester, and I will learn more about > the brain then I probably care to know, but that's the class. So, does > anyone know where i can purchase a tactile map of the brain as i know > it is complex, and I am sure that having one will greatly help me. It > needs to be really detailed, but I'll take any leads. Having a map > with only major parts would be better than nothing and help me to > orient myself if nothing else. > > Thanks > > Cindy > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From spangler.robert at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 18:55:45 2010 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 14:55:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sail Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have a few things that I would like to get rid of. I have a Romeo Pro 50 Braille Embosser which was originally $2,900, give or take. I'm willing to part with it for $1,500 or best offer. I'll work with anyone who wishes to purchase this item. It still works perfectly and all cables are included. I have none of the manuals, documentation or Braille paper. I also have a Dell Dymension 3000 which is a P4 computer with 512MB RAM 3.00 GHz CPU with hyperthreading and a 40GB hard drive. I installed a new sound card in it a few years ago. It has noOS. It's about six years old. I'm asking $200 but again best offer. Thanks, Robert -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - SSIPS Committee Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 19:00:33 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 14:00:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram References: Message-ID: <44AFE9CFB85D41058F8D25D0AD535848@Dezman> Cindy, I took this class and I remember studying a three-d plastic model of the brain that the psych department had. This was really helpful because one could pull it apart and look at the internal structures as well as feel the surface of the brain. I also remember the biology department having one of these as well that I used in anatomy. You might check around to see if your department has such a model and perhaps you could use that. Best, Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Asociation of Blind Students" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram >I am taking physio psych next semester, and I will learn more about > the brain then I probably care to know, but that's the class. So, does > anyone know where i can purchase a tactile map of the brain as i know > it is complex, and I am sure that having one will greatly help me. It > needs to be really detailed, but I'll take any leads. Having a map > with only major parts would be better than nothing and help me to > orient myself if nothing else. > > Thanks > > Cindy > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Sep 9 19:25:56 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:25:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> Message-ID: Is it a braille keyboard? Also, how old is it? On Sep 9, 2010, at 1:50 AM, Trey Bradley wrote: > Hi I think the Pac-Mat is better because you can use all of the off > the shelve programs. I have I an a extra that I would like to get rid > of so if you want to talk just let me know. > > On 9/8/10, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Well, I have had experience with pacmates crashing. Of course, this >> was a few years ago, so I may be a little out of date. I had to start >> using a laptop full time because I went through 3 pacmates. >> >> Also, the pacmate used to eat some of my files. I have heard that >> this has happened to other people as well. >> >> I am using a braille note apex now, and I am a little confused about >> some things because this I am rather new at it, but I like it. I >> haven't had battery problems with it, and it hasn't been randomly >> erasing my files. >> >> About the Bible. You can find several different versions on >> bookshare. They have the whole bible that you can download, or you >> can download some of the books individually. It's pretty awesome! >> >> >> >> On 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Ok. >>> Thanks for your feedback. >>> What about crashing? >>> I've heard packmates crash a lot. >>> >>> Also, are there a lot of apps for the Pack Mate? >>> >>> And just wondering, if you can tell me, where do you get digital copies of >>> the bible? >>> >>> Just wondering, because I never knew they existed. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:06 PM, trising wrote: >>> >>>> I have a Pac Mate BX40. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, it is >>>> the greatest piece of technology for the blind. If I could >>>> only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would choose. I have >>>> a strong Braille preference, both in reading, writing, and >>>> proof reading what I have written. I can have a whole library of Braille >>>> books stored on a Compact Flash card. I can also store 6 >>>> versions of the Bible. I have two hard copy Braille versions that take up >>>> something like four book shelves in my town house. I am >>>> the Secretary of the NFB of Michigan, and I write the minutes so much >>>> faster and with fewer mistakes on the Pac Mate, rather than on >>>> my computer with Jaws. The programs are very close to Jaws programs, so, >>>> the learning curve is quick if you are already familiar >>>> with Jaws. Also, if you are a technology geek like my husband, you can >>>> add >>>> other off the shelf programs to the Pac Mate because it >>>> is not a closed system. I have never owned a Braille Note, but I bet >>>> those >>>> are wonderful as well. I can only tell you about my >>>> experience. >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Roosevelt Bradley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 20:57:56 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 16:57:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note V. Packmate In-Reply-To: References: <672DA2987E3A48F99EAE10806A53907C@user6389c7a3c9> <927138E8-FE12-48DC-87BF-00FBD23092F0@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, George, As others have said, it is difficult to say that one type of note-taker is definitely better than the other. I have personally been a Braille Note user for many years, and I love how user-friendly its built-in software is. It is very intuitive and easy to learn! I do also have a laptop, and I use it heavily every day to handle MS Office files, emails, and Internet browsing, but my braille Note is indispensible for me in terms of writing papers (I type my papers in grade 2 braille and translate them into Word documents), both academic as well as personal reading, and of course note-taking. I agree that Pac Mate more closely resembles a PC and its ability to work with third-party apps is a big advantage, but the Braille Note-laptop combo has worked very well for me. Are you purchasing a note-taker through your state voc rehab? When I worked with the state rehab to purchase technology equipment before entering college, they sent me to a state-run training center for the blind for a day as part of my technology evaluation so that I could gain some hands-on experience with different types of assistive technology and make an informed decision about what to purchase for my personal tool box. I found this very helpful and it may be worthwhile to check out whether similar options are available in your state. Hope this helps! Katie On 9/9/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Is it a braille keyboard? > Also, how old is it? > > > > > On Sep 9, 2010, at 1:50 AM, Trey Bradley wrote: > >> Hi I think the Pac-Mat is better because you can use all of the off >> the shelve programs. I have I an a extra that I would like to get rid >> of so if you want to talk just let me know. >> >> On 9/8/10, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Well, I have had experience with pacmates crashing. Of course, this >>> was a few years ago, so I may be a little out of date. I had to start >>> using a laptop full time because I went through 3 pacmates. >>> >>> Also, the pacmate used to eat some of my files. I have heard that >>> this has happened to other people as well. >>> >>> I am using a braille note apex now, and I am a little confused about >>> some things because this I am rather new at it, but I like it. I >>> haven't had battery problems with it, and it hasn't been randomly >>> erasing my files. >>> >>> About the Bible. You can find several different versions on >>> bookshare. They have the whole bible that you can download, or you >>> can download some of the books individually. It's pretty awesome! >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/8/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> Ok. >>>> Thanks for your feedback. >>>> What about crashing? >>>> I've heard packmates crash a lot. >>>> >>>> Also, are there a lot of apps for the Pack Mate? >>>> >>>> And just wondering, if you can tell me, where do you get digital copies >>>> of >>>> the bible? >>>> >>>> Just wondering, because I never knew they existed. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:06 PM, trising wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a Pac Mate BX40. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, it is >>>>> the greatest piece of technology for the blind. If I could >>>>> only have one piece of technology, this is the one I would choose. I >>>>> have >>>>> a strong Braille preference, both in reading, writing, and >>>>> proof reading what I have written. I can have a whole library of >>>>> Braille >>>>> books stored on a Compact Flash card. I can also store 6 >>>>> versions of the Bible. I have two hard copy Braille versions that take >>>>> up >>>>> something like four book shelves in my town house. I am >>>>> the Secretary of the NFB of Michigan, and I write the minutes so much >>>>> faster and with fewer mistakes on the Pac Mate, rather than on >>>>> my computer with Jaws. The programs are very close to Jaws programs, >>>>> so, >>>>> the learning curve is quick if you are already familiar >>>>> with Jaws. Also, if you are a technology geek like my husband, you can >>>>> add >>>>> other off the shelf programs to the Pac Mate because it >>>>> is not a closed system. I have never owned a Braille Note, but I bet >>>>> those >>>>> are wonderful as well. I can only tell you about my >>>>> experience. >>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >>> Eyes for the Blind >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Roosevelt Bradley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 21:06:12 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 17:06:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram In-Reply-To: <44AFE9CFB85D41058F8D25D0AD535848@Dezman> References: <44AFE9CFB85D41058F8D25D0AD535848@Dezman> Message-ID: Hi, Cindy, I'm a graduate student in social psychology and have definitely had my share of learning about the brain. I did have a reader describe some of the diagrams to me, but other than that i was able to follow the course just fine without additional tactile diagrams, as the functions and structures of the brain were explained clearly in the textbook and lectures. I'm sure it would be interesting to feel a tactile model/picture of the brain, but unless you are specifically interested in neuroscience I don't think it is essential for your understanding. Just my thoughts! Katie On 9/9/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Cindy, > > I took this class and I remember studying a three-d plastic model of the > brain that the psych department had. This was really helpful because one > could pull it apart and look at the internal structures as well as feel the > surface of the brain. I also remember the biology department having one of > these as well that I used in anatomy. You might check around to see if your > department has such a model and perhaps you could use that. > > Best, > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Bennett" > To: "National Asociation of Blind Students" > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:46 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram > > >>I am taking physio psych next semester, and I will learn more about >> the brain then I probably care to know, but that's the class. So, does >> anyone know where i can purchase a tactile map of the brain as i know >> it is complex, and I am sure that having one will greatly help me. It >> needs to be really detailed, but I'll take any leads. Having a map >> with only major parts would be better than nothing and help me to >> orient myself if nothing else. >> >> Thanks >> >> Cindy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 21:15:34 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 17:15:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs Message-ID: Hello, all, I believe that this topic has come up on the list before, but does anyone have experience working with Google Docs using JAWS? Are most of the features accessible? Are there any particular tips/strategies to make it work better with the screen reader? I'm a teaching assistant for an introductory psychology course this semester, and the instructor has created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for us to enter grades. I looked at it briefly but was a bit confused about how it works. Any help would be much appreciated! Katie From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Sep 9 21:57:46 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 16:57:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram References: Message-ID: <94A20F0E22754E0AA4CD8BE1E45F054A@D3DTZP41> Hello Cindy: VIEW International Foundation sells a collection tactile diagram files on CDs. See the link: http://www.viewinternational.org/diagrams.htm The complete set is $259. CD10 which has most of the brain images is $69. All prices include S&H. A reader can look at the images and see if they match up with your text. The web page provides more information. I could produce individual diagrams, but they will be $2.50 each plus $10 S&H. I can reduce the S&H costs if I ship Free Matter. If you have any questions, please let me know. Regards, Robert Jaquiss, Executive Director VIEW International Foundation 230 Peach Tree Drive West Monroe, Louisiana 71291-8653 Phone: (318) 396-1853 Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net Web site: http://www.viewinternational.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Asociation of Blind Students" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: [nabs-l] tactile brain diagram >I am taking physio psych next semester, and I will learn more about > the brain then I probably care to know, but that's the class. So, does > anyone know where i can purchase a tactile map of the brain as i know > it is complex, and I am sure that having one will greatly help me. It > needs to be really detailed, but I'll take any leads. Having a map > with only major parts would be better than nothing and help me to > orient myself if nothing else. > > Thanks > > Cindy > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Sep 9 22:15:32 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 17:15:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Tactile Diagram Collection available on CDs Message-ID: <43F03330FF0542459A666C7192EE7242@D3DTZP41> Hello: Since the subject of tactile diagrams has come up, I would like to mention that VIEW International Foundation has a 10 CD set of 11,280 diagram files. These files are intended to be printed on capsule paper such as SwellTouch or Flexi-paper. The subjects covered range from biology to engineering. For more information, please go to http://www.viewinternational.org/diagrams.htm The Collection does contain some diagrams of the brain, nerves etc. If there are any questions, please let me know. Regards, Robert Jaquiss, Executive Director VIEW International Foundation 230 Peach Tree Drive West Monroe, Louisiana 71291-8653 Phone: (318) 396-1853 Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net Web site: http://www.viewinternational.org From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 22:43:40 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 16:43:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried using Google Docs, admittedly somewhat briefly, but I wasn't able to get anywhere with it. Asking about it on various lists didn't turn up very much either except Joe had a tip about syncing files that I haven't tested out. There are other options. Dropbox is one, and I recently supervised some undergraduate interns, and the entire team used something called PBWorks. Unless your prof is familiar with these options, he or she isn't likely going to want to switch, and they aren't quite designed to do the exact same things as google docs anyway. Personally, if I found myself in your situation, I would create my own spreadsheet and send the grades to my prof. I can understand how google docs saves some time if you are supervising several teaching assistants, but it would take very little time for your prof or one of the other TAs to enter your information into the google spreadsheet. Long term, though, I hope the NFB is talking to google about these tools because there use is likely only to increase. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs > Hello, all, > I believe that this topic has come up on the list before, but does > anyone have experience working with Google Docs using JAWS? Are most > of the features accessible? Are there any particular tips/strategies > to make it work better with the screen reader? I'm a teaching > assistant for an introductory psychology course this semester, and the > instructor has created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for us to enter > grades. I looked at it briefly but was a bit confused about how it > works. Any help would be much appreciated! > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From aadkins7 at verizon.net Thu Sep 9 22:50:14 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:50:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tactile Diagram Collection available on CDs In-Reply-To: <43F03330FF0542459A666C7192EE7242@D3DTZP41> References: <43F03330FF0542459A666C7192EE7242@D3DTZP41> Message-ID: <8404E93D21184018BBFB532C14B73FE2@AnitaAdkinsPC> Could they be printed with a Juliet embosser on regular paper if one does not have the other type of paper you mentioned? If not, is this capsule paper expensive, and where would one purchase it? Thanks. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:15 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Tactile Diagram Collection available on CDs > Hello: > > Since the subject of tactile diagrams has come up, I would like to > mention that VIEW International Foundation has a 10 CD set of 11,280 > diagram files. These files are intended to be printed on capsule paper > such as SwellTouch or Flexi-paper. The subjects covered range from biology > to engineering. For more information, please go to > http://www.viewinternational.org/diagrams.htm > > The Collection does contain some diagrams of the brain, nerves etc. If > there are any questions, please let me know. > > Regards, > > Robert Jaquiss, Executive Director > VIEW International Foundation > 230 Peach Tree Drive > West Monroe, Louisiana 71291-8653 > Phone: (318) 396-1853 > Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net > Web site: http://www.viewinternational.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 23:18:34 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:18:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50E9C5027E1F4E168FA457E4E80EADE2@Rufus> Marc and others, Basically, OffiSync creates an additional menu on the menu bar. You can choose to save the document as you go through that menu. I've sang the praises to the company for being so accessible. They loved it and now know blind folk, or at least one, is using their product. The only thing I do online is to create folders. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs I tried using Google Docs, admittedly somewhat briefly, but I wasn't able to get anywhere with it. Asking about it on various lists didn't turn up very much either except Joe had a tip about syncing files that I haven't tested out. There are other options. Dropbox is one, and I recently supervised some undergraduate interns, and the entire team used something called PBWorks. Unless your prof is familiar with these options, he or she isn't likely going to want to switch, and they aren't quite designed to do the exact same things as google docs anyway. Personally, if I found myself in your situation, I would create my own spreadsheet and send the grades to my prof. I can understand how google docs saves some time if you are supervising several teaching assistants, but it would take very little time for your prof or one of the other TAs to enter your information into the google spreadsheet. Long term, though, I hope the NFB is talking to google about these tools because there use is likely only to increase. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs > Hello, all, > I believe that this topic has come up on the list before, but does > anyone have experience working with Google Docs using JAWS? Are most > of the features accessible? Are there any particular tips/strategies > to make it work better with the screen reader? I'm a teaching > assistant for an introductory psychology course this semester, and the > instructor has created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for us to enter > grades. I looked at it briefly but was a bit confused about how it > works. Any help would be much appreciated! > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman .lists%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Sep 9 23:45:11 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:45:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs In-Reply-To: <50E9C5027E1F4E168FA457E4E80EADE2@Rufus> References: <50E9C5027E1F4E168FA457E4E80EADE2@Rufus> Message-ID: <902D83B2-17A6-49E2-B245-A0E22B5F63C9@mac.com> What about with Voice Over? Is it accessible? Thanks, Jorge On Sep 9, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Marc and others, > > Basically, OffiSync creates an additional menu on the menu bar. You can > choose to save the document as you go through that menu. I've sang the > praises to the company for being so accessible. They loved it and now know > blind folk, or at least one, is using their product. The only thing I do > online is to create folders. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs > > I tried using Google Docs, admittedly somewhat briefly, but I > wasn't able to > get anywhere with it. Asking about it on various lists didn't > turn up very > much either except Joe had a tip about syncing files that I > haven't tested > out. > > There are other options. Dropbox is one, and I recently > supervised some > undergraduate interns, and the entire team used something > called PBWorks. > Unless your prof is familiar with these options, he or she isn't likely > going to want to switch, and they aren't quite designed to do > the exact same > things as google docs anyway. > > Personally, if I found myself in your situation, I would create my own > spreadsheet and send the grades to my prof. I can understand > how google > docs saves some time if you are supervising several teaching > assistants, but > it would take very little time for your prof or one of the other TAs to > enter your information into the google spreadsheet. > > Long term, though, I hope the NFB is talking to google about > these tools > because there use is likely only to increase. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Wang" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:15 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs > > >> Hello, all, >> I believe that this topic has come up on the list before, but does >> anyone have experience working with Google Docs using JAWS? Are most >> of the features accessible? Are there any particular tips/strategies >> to make it work better with the screen reader? I'm a teaching >> assistant for an introductory psychology course this semester, and the >> instructor has created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for us to enter >> grades. I looked at it briefly but was a bit confused about how it >> works. Any help would be much appreciated! >> Katie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman > .lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 00:54:36 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:54:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs In-Reply-To: <50E9C5027E1F4E168FA457E4E80EADE2@Rufus> References: <50E9C5027E1F4E168FA457E4E80EADE2@Rufus> Message-ID: <4AEACCDE50F64D17B7DA93F3D435A29A@MarcPC> Joe, Much appreciated. I'm not sure if you have an answer for this, but do you know if this would allow Katie to do what she is being asked to do (i.e., would it be possible to save a google document, an excel spreadsheet for example, on her computer, make the changes she needs to make, and then upload it back to the site so that it replaces the original document?) The problem I faced when trying to use google docs is that, even though I could read what was in the document, when I tried to edited it by turning forms mode on, JAWS would no longer read me the content. I could enter information no problem, but I had no idea where I was in the document, so I didn't know exactly what changes were being made until after I saved it. What I wonder is whether actually pulling the document off the site, then editing it, and then uploading it again is a work-around for this problem. Seems to me like it might be. Regards, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs > Marc and others, > > Basically, OffiSync creates an additional menu on the menu bar. You can > choose to save the document as you go through that menu. I've sang the > praises to the company for being so accessible. They loved it and now > know > blind folk, or at least one, is using their product. The only thing I do > online is to create folders. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs > > I tried using Google Docs, admittedly somewhat briefly, but I > wasn't able to > get anywhere with it. Asking about it on various lists didn't > turn up very > much either except Joe had a tip about syncing files that I > haven't tested > out. > > There are other options. Dropbox is one, and I recently > supervised some > undergraduate interns, and the entire team used something > called PBWorks. > Unless your prof is familiar with these options, he or she isn't likely > going to want to switch, and they aren't quite designed to do > the exact same > things as google docs anyway. > > Personally, if I found myself in your situation, I would create my own > spreadsheet and send the grades to my prof. I can understand > how google > docs saves some time if you are supervising several teaching > assistants, but > it would take very little time for your prof or one of the other TAs to > enter your information into the google spreadsheet. > > Long term, though, I hope the NFB is talking to google about > these tools > because there use is likely only to increase. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Wang" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:15 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs > > >> Hello, all, >> I believe that this topic has come up on the list before, but does >> anyone have experience working with Google Docs using JAWS? Are most >> of the features accessible? Are there any particular tips/strategies >> to make it work better with the screen reader? I'm a teaching >> assistant for an introductory psychology course this semester, and the >> instructor has created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for us to enter >> grades. I looked at it briefly but was a bit confused about how it >> works. Any help would be much appreciated! >> Katie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman > .lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 01:50:27 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 21:50:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs In-Reply-To: <4AEACCDE50F64D17B7DA93F3D435A29A@MarcPC> References: <50E9C5027E1F4E168FA457E4E80EADE2@Rufus> <4AEACCDE50F64D17B7DA93F3D435A29A@MarcPC> Message-ID: <5372F3FC08C442F294981EC28E1B978B@Rufus> Yes, once you use the add-on to save the document to Google Docs for the first time, each time you save thereafter will automatically sync up with the online version. People who edit the document online will save the changes to the file residing in your computer. It's like Dropbox with a web interface. I personally prefer Dropbox but use Google Docs for people who aren't willing to download the former. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman [mailto:mworkman.lists at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:55 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs Joe, Much appreciated. I'm not sure if you have an answer for this, but do you know if this would allow Katie to do what she is being asked to do (i.e., would it be possible to save a Google document, an excel spreadsheet for example, on her computer, make the changes she needs to make, and then upload it back to the site so that it replaces the original document?) The problem I faced when trying to use google docs is that, even though I could read what was in the document, when I tried to edited it by turning forms mode on, JAWS would no longer read me the content. I could enter information no problem, but I had no idea where I was in the document, so I didn't know exactly what changes were being made until after I saved it. What I wonder is whether actually pulling the document off the site, then editing it, and then uploading it again is a work-around for this problem. Seems to me like it might be. Regards, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs > Marc and others, > > Basically, OffiSync creates an additional menu on the menu bar. You can > choose to save the document as you go through that menu. I've sang the > praises to the company for being so accessible. They loved it and now > know > blind folk, or at least one, is using their product. The only thing I do > online is to create folders. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Workman > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs > > I tried using Google Docs, admittedly somewhat briefly, but I > wasn't able to > get anywhere with it. Asking about it on various lists didn't > turn up very > much either except Joe had a tip about syncing files that I > haven't tested > out. > > There are other options. Dropbox is one, and I recently > supervised some > undergraduate interns, and the entire team used something > called PBWorks. > Unless your prof is familiar with these options, he or she isn't likely > going to want to switch, and they aren't quite designed to do > the exact same > things as google docs anyway. > > Personally, if I found myself in your situation, I would create my own > spreadsheet and send the grades to my prof. I can understand > how google > docs saves some time if you are supervising several teaching > assistants, but > it would take very little time for your prof or one of the other TAs to > enter your information into the google spreadsheet. > > Long term, though, I hope the NFB is talking to google about > these tools > because there use is likely only to increase. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Wang" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:15 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs > > >> Hello, all, >> I believe that this topic has come up on the list before, but does >> anyone have experience working with Google Docs using JAWS? Are most >> of the features accessible? Are there any particular tips/strategies >> to make it work better with the screen reader? I'm a teaching >> assistant for an introductory psychology course this semester, and the >> instructor has created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for us to enter >> grades. I looked at it briefly but was a bit confused about how it >> works. Any help would be much appreciated! >> Katie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman > .lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman .lists%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Fri Sep 10 14:09:26 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:09:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <62F7CD02-6883-4728-BD8D-8A33DA0D5D56@mac.com> Hello all: I am writing because I have a possible money-making opportunity for those of you interested. Background: TECH SAVVY PODCASTS DOT COM (www.techsavvypodcasts.com), is a podcast network with over 8000 visits a day, and a very popular podcast which in June hit its peek subscriber count at over 52 subscribers in under 1 month, with an average iTunes rating of 4 stars, and drawing listeners from around the podcast spectrum, from followers of the Maccessibility Network, to members and listeners of the award winning TWIT.tv shows. We cover all aspects of technology, heavily focusing on accessibility and assistive technology. We discuss: -accessible technology and services -asistive technology news and/or reviews. Offer: We are currently looking for podcasters for our network. You can either join the team from NO EYES REQUIRED, our flagship podcast, or you can start your own podcast. Any podcasts are welcome as long as they are about technology, and focused on how it is accessible, or assistive technology for the blind. The money making opportunity arises upon the creation of your show, because we also will give you a marketing kit for your podcast. This kit is for your advertising campaigns. (details about the finances will be disclosed only to member podcasters.) Basically, you are free to search for advertisers, and sign them, however you must show us proof of signature, and we will charge you a small "member's fee" for your show based on the financial details of your agreement with the advertisers involved. If you're interested, please contact me off list. Jorge From pyyhkala at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 15:48:51 2010 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:48:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your Feedback Needed For DOT Air Carrier Access Act Forum Sep 14-15 #ACAAMIA Message-ID: Greetings, I will be attending a US Department of Transportation forum involving the air travel experience of people with disabilities and the ACAA on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week. Please reply to this email with your feedback. Please reply directly to the email to keep the subject in tact so that messages are threaded together. Please also post your observations on Twitter with the hashtag #ACAAMIA in your tweet. I will also be posting my observations at http://twitter.com/pyyhkala The DOT holds these forums periodically, and they are attended by regulatory compliance and corporate CRO employees from air carriers, DOT officials, representatives from airports & other aviation service contractors, and representatives from a number of organizations of and for people with disabilities. I am interested in any feedback you have as it pertains to the current air travel experience of people who are blind. You can provide feedback in your own words, and/or use the following 10 questions as a basis for issues we might consider. The questions are quite lengthy, but they cover a number of practical and public policy areas regarding the air travel experience of the blind. All of the questions are interesting, but I would call your attention specifically to number 6 and 10 as I will be meeting with DOT and airline officials to discuss topics raised in those specific questions. The forum will provide direct access to the chief CRO's at all the major US and many foreign carriers, as well as the DOT officials that are involved with both the development and implimentation of current and future Air Carrier Access Act 14 CFR Part 382 regulations. I may be able to speak with specific carriers chief CRO's to address specific issues or concerns you have. 1. What are the key issues facing blind air travelers in the current day reservation, airport, and in flight experience? 2. What trends do you see in the air travel experience of blind people? Are things getting better, worse, staying the same? Are there certain aspects of the experience that are getting better, worse, or staying the same? 3. Is the Air Carrier Access Act and accompanying 14 CFR Part 382 regulation meeting the needs of blind air travelers? If not, what needs to change in order to make the ACAA more meaningful for the blind? 4. All major US and many foreign carriers have specific procedures, programs, and mechanisms which seek to implement the ACAA, and address the travel experience of people with disabilities. For example, CRO's at all airports, employee training, procedures, mandatory complaint reporting, and assurances from contractors. How should carriers improve both their ACAA compliance and overall customer service initiatives for people who are blind? Have you ever interacted with a carrier CRO, and was the person able to effectively handle your inquiry and treat you as a valued customer? Are airport CRO's or corporate CRO's better able to handle your issues? 5. The Air Carrier Access Act Part 382 regulation has been in place in some form since 1990. How familiar are you with your rights under the regulation? How familiar are you with the official and unofficial practices of carriers & DOT as it relates to blind air travelers? How familiar and confident are you in navigating "the system," both inside a carrier and at DOT in case you have a disability related air travel issue? 6. There is evidence that blind people still have disability related issues in the air travel experience, but blind people appear not to be filing complaints with airport CRO's, corporate CRO's, or DOT? If blind people indeed do have disability related issues in air travel, why don't blind people use the numerous mechanisms that the carriers and the government have built to handle ACAA disability issues? What steps would advocacy organizations, airlines, or DOT have to take to get blind people to use the complaint resolution mechanisms? 7. Overall are the airlines providing you as a blind traveler too little, just enough, or too much assistance? Are the airlines respecting your ACAA mandated choice as to what, if any assistance, you want to receive? 8. How well are airlines, DOT, other service providers, and disability stakeholder organizations addressing the accessibility by the blind of current and future technology used in the modern day air travel experience? This includes, but is not limited too, web sites, kiosks, in flight entertainment or IFE systems, in flight WiFI, iPhone BlackBerry Android and other mobile applications, paperless boarding passes, flight alerts by text message or email, trusted traveler programs like Global Entry, and nonvisual access to data such as flight standby or upgrade lists provided on gate information display screens? 9. ACAA requires that carriers provide information in a nonvisual format to people who are blind. For large hub and other airports, carriers often provide visual maps on their web sites and in their in flight magazines to orient travelers to the location of gates, baggage claim, airline lounges, customer service and ticketing functions, and other ameneties. Increasingly this information is and will also be displayed on board aircraft, via phone applications, and by other mechanisms. How successful have carriers and airports been in conveying this orientation information in a nonvisual way to people who are blind? If the information is not being provided in a nonvisual way, what work arounds have you used to gather this information? 10. When people with disabilities request special assistance or services the request is electronically communicated throughout the carriers departments: web site, reservations, ticket counter, gates, contractors, and in flight, via what is called in industry jargon an SSR. SSR is short for special service request, and its insertted in to the passengers PNR. A PNR, passenger name record, is the electronic file record associated with a reservation and electronic ticket. Typically gate agents, flight attendants, and other carrier operations personell will review and have access to SSR data on a given flights electronic or paper passenger manifest. For example, when a flight is arriving, the inbound gate agent often will contact contractors to meet passengers for whom an SSR is on file. We have received an inquiry as to whether blind people want carriers to insert SSR notations in the PNR for blind air travelers without asking the passenger if they desire an SSR, or without a passenger having requested the SSR or assistance that is triggered by the SSR entry in a PNR. The key SSR involving blind air travelers is BLND short for blind passenger. The carrier is concerned that if it tells its employees to be more judicious before insertting SSR messages for blind air travelers, that some travelers may be left without desired assistance or that this may send a message to employees not to offer help to people with disabilities. Also, how familiar were you before now with SSR's? How would you find out if your PNR had an SSR during a trip? Have you had experiences where you've worked with carrier personell to add or remove an SSR, and if so, how was the experience? From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 17:15:18 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:15:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] software developers? Message-ID: <31A618CD-7ACF-4549-B77A-EB0B20A3CDFE@gmail.com> Hi does anyone know the names of the developers who made keynote gold multimedia for windows95, keysoft for windows95, and infovox230 for windows95? if so can you email me off list at jkenn337 at gmail.com? thanks. Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 17:19:21 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:19:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students Seminar Online! Message-ID: <4C8A6899.10608@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, As part of the 64th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona, the Arizona Association of Blind Students is holding its annual Friday evening seminar and business meeting. We're doing something new this year. If you are unable to attend the convention in person, you have an opportunity to listen to the seminar online. Our agenda includes these exciting items: Bob Kresmer will discuss the Arizona state affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind. Ryan Thomas will talk about how the Arizona Association of Blind Students can help you succeed. There will be an interactive discussion on how blind students use college support services. Allison Hilliker will discuss the use of Bookshare and other accessible media sources to successfully complete reading and research work. The Arizona Association of Blind Students will hold elections. The seminar starts at 7 p.m. Friday, Sept. 10. Visit http://radio.blindaccessjournal.com and choose the link for your favorite media player to start listening. If your listening device or software is not listed, simply choose the Winamp option for the best experience. If you wish to communicate with us during the seminar, simply post to Twitter by including #nfba10 anywhere in the message. Please feel free to visit http://www.blindaccessjournal.com to get involved in grassroots, proactive accessibility advocacy for the blind. Best regards, Darrell Shandrow Publisher Blind Access Journal From th404 at comcast.net Fri Sep 10 17:52:16 2010 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:52:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students Seminar Online! References: <4C8A6899.10608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <958A1B37404742098246DAC4F3C3B844@userbafffee1fc> Will this be archived for later listening? Thanks. From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 18:02:33 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:02:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students Seminar Online! In-Reply-To: <958A1B37404742098246DAC4F3C3B844@userbafffee1fc> References: <4C8A6899.10608@gmail.com> <958A1B37404742098246DAC4F3C3B844@userbafffee1fc> Message-ID: <4C8A72B9.7050609@gmail.com> Hello Tina, Yes, but I'm not yet certain where it will be made available. On 9/10/2010 10:52 AM, Tina Hansen wrote: > Will this be archived for later listening? Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri Sep 10 19:17:58 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:17:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students Seminar Online! References: <4C8A6899.10608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001a01cb511c$e0fde1a0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Darrell, Do you know if the rest of the convention will be broadcast? If so we'll be listening. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 12:19 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students Seminar Online! Hello Everyone, As part of the 64th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona, the Arizona Association of Blind Students is holding its annual Friday evening seminar and business meeting. We're doing something new this year. If you are unable to attend the convention in person, you have an opportunity to listen to the seminar online. Our agenda includes these exciting items: Bob Kresmer will discuss the Arizona state affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind. Ryan Thomas will talk about how the Arizona Association of Blind Students can help you succeed. There will be an interactive discussion on how blind students use college support services. Allison Hilliker will discuss the use of Bookshare and other accessible media sources to successfully complete reading and research work. The Arizona Association of Blind Students will hold elections. The seminar starts at 7 p.m. Friday, Sept. 10. Visit http://radio.blindaccessjournal.com and choose the link for your favorite media player to start listening. If your listening device or software is not listed, simply choose the Winamp option for the best experience. If you wish to communicate with us during the seminar, simply post to Twitter by including #nfba10 anywhere in the message. Please feel free to visit http://www.blindaccessjournal.com to get involved in grassroots, proactive accessibility advocacy for the blind. Best regards, Darrell Shandrow Publisher Blind Access Journal _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 19:28:45 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:28:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students Seminar Online! In-Reply-To: <001a01cb511c$e0fde1a0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <4C8A6899.10608@gmail.com> <001a01cb511c$e0fde1a0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4C8A86ED.5010106@gmail.com> Hello Peter, Streaming is an experiment for us this year, so we're broadcasting only the students' seminar. On 9/10/2010 12:17 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Darrell, > > Do you know if the rest of the convention will be broadcast? If so we'll > be listening. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrell Shandrow" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 12:19 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Listen Live to the Arizona Association of Blind Students > Seminar Online! > > > Hello Everyone, > > As part of the 64th annual convention of the National Federation of the > Blind of Arizona, the Arizona Association of Blind Students is holding > its annual Friday evening seminar and business meeting. > > We're doing something new this year. > > If you are unable to attend the convention in person, you have an > opportunity to listen to the seminar online. > > Our agenda includes these exciting items: > > Bob Kresmer will discuss the Arizona state affiliate of the National > Federation of the Blind. > Ryan Thomas will talk about how the Arizona Association of Blind > Students can help you succeed. > There will be an interactive discussion on how blind students use > college support services. > Allison Hilliker will discuss the use of Bookshare and other accessible > media sources to successfully complete reading and research work. > The Arizona Association of Blind Students will hold elections. > > The seminar starts at 7 p.m. Friday, Sept. 10. > > Visit http://radio.blindaccessjournal.com and choose the link for your > favorite media player to start listening. If your listening device or > software is not listed, simply choose the Winamp option for the best > experience. > > If you wish to communicate with us during the seminar, simply post to > Twitter by including #nfba10 anywhere in the message. > > Please feel free to visit http://www.blindaccessjournal.com to get > involved in grassroots, proactive accessibility advocacy for the blind. > > Best regards, > > Darrell Shandrow > Publisher > Blind Access Journal > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Fri Sep 10 19:55:10 2010 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:55:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] will this be seven PM Eastern or Pacific! Message-ID: <001301cb5122$14dc9750$9560c747@BRIAN> Will the Arizona conference air seven PM EDT or PDT? From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 20:46:43 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:46:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] will this be seven PM Eastern or Pacific! In-Reply-To: <001301cb5122$14dc9750$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <001301cb5122$14dc9750$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Hello, The seminar will start at 7 p.m. Pacific time, which will be 10:00 Eastern. Regards, Darrell On Sep 10, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Will the Arizona conference air seven PM EDT or PDT? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri Sep 10 21:09:04 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:09:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] will this be seven PM Eastern or Pacific! References: <001301cb5122$14dc9750$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <005501cb512c$669765c0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Darrell and everyone, And 9:00 p.m. Central. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] will this be seven PM Eastern or Pacific! Hello, The seminar will start at 7 p.m. Pacific time, which will be 10:00 Eastern. Regards, Darrell On Sep 10, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Will the Arizona conference air seven PM EDT or PDT? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 21:48:00 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 17:48:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Grant to Consider Message-ID: <60D0F2133434407092B9590BDBB2C490@Rufus> I hope some student divisions will keep an eye on this grant opportunity. I feel that while putting together grant proposals can be time-consuming, they can also help shape your activities, solidify your core members and get you out into the general public to do some good while educating people about what blind students can offer.--Joe Orozco State Farm Youth Advisory Board Grant Program State Farm Corporate Headquarters 1 State Farm Plaza Bloomington, IL 61710 Phone: 309-766-7554 Email: yab at statefarm.com Url: http://www.statefarmyab.com/ Primary Contact: Mr. Matthew Maloney Geographic Scope: National Geographic Focus: Projects in Alberta, New Brunswick, and Ontario, Canada are also supported. Type of Organization: Corporate Giving Program Total Annual Giving: $5,000,000 Grant Range: $25,000 - $100,000 Eligibility Requirements: Educational institutions, nonprofit organizations, and government agencies Application Deadlines: National Grants: May 1, 2011 (The 2011 deadline will be available in early 2011.) Local Grants Northeast Zone: August 6, 2010 Southern Zone: August 8, 2010 (The 2011 deadline will be available early in the summer.) Areas of Interest: The State Farm Youth Advisory Board is composed of 30 diverse young adults who demonstrate exemplary work in service learning, volunteering, and philanthropy in their communities. Members of the Board will help State Farm leadership create and implement service learning projects across the United States and Canada. The Youth Advisory Board grants funds for student-led service-learning projects in the United States and in the Alberta, New Brunswick, and Ontario provinces of Canada. Specific areas of interest include: .natural and societal disasters, including nutritional imbalances, physical activity, teen bullying, domestic abuse, substance abuse, mental illness, STDs and AIDS, and diversity issues; .driver safety; .environmental responsibility, including climate change, environmental education, wildlife preservation, and land conservation; .accessing higher education/closing the achievement gap; and, .financial literacy, with emphasis on social entrepreneurship, fiscal responsibility, and consumer financial skills. Applicants should be either an educator who currently teaches in a public K-12, public charter, or higher education institution, or a school-based service-learning coordinator whose primary role is to coordinate service-learning projects. Nonprofit organizations are also eligible if they are able to demonstrate how they plan to actively interact with students in public K-12 schools. Grant applicants will be required to specify how service-learning is embedded within their project. The minimum grant amount is $25,000 and the maximum grant amount is $100,000. Note: Local grants are available in the Northeast Zone, which includes New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, and in the Southern Zone , which includes Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Visit the website for details. Application Procedures: Application guidelines and forms are available on the website listed above when RFPs are issued. From aadkins7 at verizon.net Fri Sep 10 21:48:58 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 17:48:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Blog Reminder Message-ID: <0004D1DB58384BAAB1ADFC88A3B7F14D@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello, Don't forget to check out the Blindness Blog each week. This week, the blog talks about some barriers for students who are blind within the general education classroom. The address is: www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com Anita Adkins From rob_blach at hotmail.com Sat Sep 11 00:19:09 2010 From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:19:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] can not pair ipod touch with braille note any help Message-ID: any help in paring ipod and braille note? From kim at senderogroup.com Sat Sep 11 01:14:54 2010 From: kim at senderogroup.com (Kim Casey) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:14:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sendero September Highlights Message-ID: One of the products, which won a Vision Free award in 2009 (http://senderogroup.com/VisionFree/), was the fully accessible Dice HD radio. In honor of their efforts to make all the functions of this radio talk, Sendero will offer its customers a discounted price on the Dice radio through the end of September, $249, including the matching auxiliary speaker. It is normally an additional $49. See the details about this very nice sounding radio at the bottom of this email. Sendero Super Deals: 1. Free Sendero Maps with the purchase of every VoiceNote or BrailleNote. A $398 benefit. 2. Slightly used BrailleNote PK, $2,000 and Braille Sense Plus QT, $4,988. 3. At time of purchase, custom PK case, $15, convertible shoulder strap, $5, BrailleNote accessory case, free. Upcoming conferences: 1st International Conference of AEGIS & 2nd Pan-European Workshop/User Forum, October 7-8 NASDSE's 73rd Annual Conference, October 17 - 18 "Finding the Way to Excellence" 2010 CAOMS Statewide Conference, October 22 - 24 70th Annual Convention of the NATIONAL FEDERATION of the BLIND of CALIFORNIA, October 22 Vision Midwest Conference, October 22 - 24 CCB Fall 2010 Convention, October 29-30 ATIA 2010 Chicago, October 27 - 30 iTR-100A Audible HD Radio Based on the popular DICE iTR-100 tabletop HD Radio, this unit was designed with special consideration for the visually impaired. Practical voice prompts and audible feedback have been added which makes operating the iTR-100A simple and intuitive. Each button press is followed by an audio queue to help guide the user through actions such as station browsing or setting up the alarm clock. All buttons and knobs are arranged and spaced apart with ease of use in mind. The compact size of the unit makes it easy to enjoy the enhanced noise-free sound quality of HD Radio or RRS (Radio Reading Service) at home or in your office. Contact Sendero Group: http://www.senderogroup.com Toll free phone (US and Canada): 1-888-757-6810 Direct phone: +1 530 757-6800 From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 17:50:19 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 11:50:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] braillenote mpower 32 for sale Message-ID: <4c8bc17c.0736640a.26c6.ffffd01f@mx.google.com> hi, Seeing that the Nm Commission for the Blind purchased me an apex earlier this year, I will be selling my mpower 32 running ks 7.5.31 to anyone interested. If interested please give me a call between 9 AM and 10 PM eastern at (505) 750-8483. I am asking $2000 or best offer. From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:58:10 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:58:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <4c8bd164.0313970a.4b3c.07c9@mx.google.com> hi jorge, If you will please respond to my earlier email dated yesterday around 8:50 PM, I have expressed interest in your project. Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez References: <4c8bd164.0313970a.4b3c.07c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Zach: I can't talk about it publicly, but you should've been made aware that the last email, regarding the podcasts was final? Remember how you were so arrogant in saying "I hate working with those who don't get their act together and will form my own company?" Business doesn't forgive or forget easy, you're exempt from the offer, as we've had our "experience" with you, and you know exactly what I mean, so don't even try to fake innocence here. Jorge P.S., sorry to other NAB members, had no way of making this private. On Sep 11, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Zach DG wrote: > hi jorge, > If you will please respond to my earlier email dated yesterday around 8:50 PM, I have expressed interest in your project. Thank you. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:09:26 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > Hello all: > I am writing because I have a possible money-making opportunity for those of you interested. > > Background: > > TECH SAVVY PODCASTS DOT COM (www.techsavvypodcasts.com), is a podcast network with over 8000 visits a day, and a very popular podcast which in June hit its peek subscriber count at over 52 subscribers in under 1 month, with an average iTunes rating of 4 stars, and drawing listeners from around the podcast spectrum, from followers of the Maccessibility Network, to members and listeners of the award winning TWIT.tv shows. > We cover all aspects of technology, heavily focusing on accessibility and assistive technology. We discuss: > -accessible technology and services > -asistive technology news and/or reviews. > > Offer: > > We are currently looking for podcasters for our network. You can either join the team from NO EYES REQUIRED, our flagship podcast, or you can start your own podcast. Any podcasts are welcome as long as they are about technology, and focused on how it is accessible, or assistive technology for the blind. > > The money making opportunity arises upon the creation of your show, because we also will give you a marketing kit for your podcast. This kit is for your advertising campaigns. (details about the finances will be disclosed only to member podcasters.) Basically, you are free to search for advertisers, and sign them, however you must show us proof of signature, and we will charge you a small "member's fee" for your show based on the financial details of your agreement with the advertisers involved. > > If you're interested, please contact me off list. > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 20:27:50 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:27:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <4c8be668.1474970a.1b81.24a9@mx.google.com> there is a way to make private. I (do) know how. I mentioned that not wanting to work deal because there was nothing happen with the network at the time proposed. If you are making exceptions, then you should redeem the exception made on July 29th and rehire me. If not, that's fine, and I will remove 9177550349 from my contact list and forget we even had the pleasure of meeting. Which I would not want to do because I can see an oppertunity in our electronic friendship. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez References: <4c8be668.1474970a.1b81.24a9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0B5FA19E60BD45628AE546F8A23FE3A0@Rufus> On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is JAWS Key + Shift + R. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 21:44:36 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:44:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <4c8bf865.153f970a.5ddd.283c@mx.google.com> don't fall for it, Joe. I can only show you 1 completed podcast since the company was founded on the first of June. All the other attempts were thwarted when members did not show up because of technical glitches in the system. Companies, in my opinion, would do much better when the employes actually met face to face on a daily basis with their employer. Wouldn't you agree, Mr. President? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" also, assuming they actually got a start (other than that one mentioned podcast) how would the employer, in this case our friend Jorge, actually ensure that the money got to his employes? Through the mail? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" Hello Nabs list, My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list a day or so ago. I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone recommended I try this mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm not a student now, I was a student up until this past May. Since graduating I've debated with myself on whether to continue on with a masters degree. I really would love to, but I've come across a few roadblocks. My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would like to talk with anyone offlist if they're blind and have taken the GRE. Or done whatever needs to be done to get into the graduate program at their respective schools. I really would like to know how they studied, what kinds of accomodations they got for it and so on. I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter this e-mail. I'm interested in talking to anyone who can help me. Even if they're not a graduate student now. Anyone with any kind of tips, advice, or suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you, Natalie From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Sep 11 22:09:15 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:09:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <4c8bf8e6.1074970a.4788.ffffb5be@mx.google.com> References: <4c8bf8e6.1074970a.4788.ffffb5be@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Zach: We have the best systems in the industry and only use the best stuff, so don't think my fellow federationists are stupid. Your tactics are lame and useless. Your feelings of poison are as obvious as if you were right next to me. Stop now, before you imbarress yourself too much I warn you. On Sep 11, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Zach DG wrote: > also, assuming they actually got a start (other than that one mentioned podcast) how would the employer, in this case our friend Jorge, actually ensure that the money got to his employes? Through the mail? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is JAWS Key + > Shift + R. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Sep 11 22:09:35 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:09:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <4c8bf865.153f970a.5ddd.283c@mx.google.com> References: <4c8bf865.153f970a.5ddd.283c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8C181D14-427A-4EEF-88C7-7F58F46A4C76@mac.com> Nobody trust Zach, please. You can see at http://www.techsavvypodcasts.com. To be honest, I wish I didn't need to say this, but Zach is a mind wiper. He's played himself into too much, and tricked my best friends and I thousands of times. Guys, make your own minds up and google TECH SAVVY PODCAST NETWORKS, look at iTunes. We're everywhere. Just look and you'll see, and whatever you do, DON'T TRUST ZACH DREISER. He was only saying that because he's jealous. I was forced to fire him after a month and a half of NO WORK on his part, and the little work he did do was of extremely low quality. Plus, he told me someone else had fired him from a second job. Does that paint you a clear enough profile of who he is? Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. On Sep 11, 2010, at 5:44 PM, Zach DG wrote: > don't fall for it, Joe. I can only show you 1 completed podcast since the company was founded on the first of June. All the other attempts were thwarted when members did not show up because of technical glitches in the system. Companies, in my opinion, would do much better when the employes actually met face to face on a daily basis with their employer. Wouldn't you agree, Mr. President? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is JAWS Key + > Shift + R. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 22:28:31 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:28:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <4c8bf865.153f970a.5ddd.283c@mx.google.com> References: <4c8bf865.153f970a.5ddd.283c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey, don't drag me into this. (grin) I was just offering a means for you guys to duke it out off-list. I hope you guys resolve your issues amicably, whatever they are. Next week at this time you'll look back and laugh at the episode. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: Zach DG [mailto:blind.biker94 at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:45 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students don't fall for it, Joe. I can only show you 1 completed podcast since the company was founded on the first of June. All the other attempts were thwarted when members did not show up because of technical glitches in the system. Companies, in my opinion, would do much better when the employes actually met face to face on a daily basis with their employer. Wouldn't you agree, Mr. President? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" References: Message-ID: Natalie, I took the GRE in 2007 and can give you some advice. The accommodations process was a little taxing but not totally frustrating. In the way of accommodations, I got Braille exam, reader/scribe, Perkins Braille writer and the use of my laptop for the writing section. I wrote the essays onto a thumb drive which the Procter then connected to a lab computer and printed. I had no real difficulties in obtaining these accommodations, and after my accommodations were approved, I was provided a two-volume test prep in Braille which I used to get ready. I read a few discussion forums to learn more about the nature of the exam, but if I had to break it down into a few simple tips, they would be these: 1. Start more than 6 months in advance to request your accommodations, just to ensure everything is set and ready to go on test day. I think I had to get some things provided by my doctor and so forth. Allow for response time. 2. Prepare for all the sections equally. Do not presume that because you're better at verbal than math that you should spend more time on math. I speak from experience. 3. From all the materials you get your hands on, develop a study guide that succinctly jogs your memory in the couple weeks before the exam. The GRE is not something you can study for in the sense of memorization, but there are strategies you can use to loosen your mind to take on the test. Good luck on the test, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nat Barrett Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:50 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduatestudents Hello Nabs list, My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list a day or so ago. I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone recommended I try this mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm not a student now, I was a student up until this past May. Since graduating I've debated with myself on whether to continue on with a masters degree. I really would love to, but I've come across a few roadblocks. My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would like to talk with anyone offlist if they're blind and have taken the GRE. Or done whatever needs to be done to get into the graduate program at their respective schools. I really would like to know how they studied, what kinds of accomodations they got for it and so on. I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter this e-mail. I'm interested in talking to anyone who can help me. Even if they're not a graduate student now. Anyone with any kind of tips, advice, or suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you, Natalie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 22:42:09 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:42:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: References: <4c8bd164.0313970a.4b3c.07c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5985999C635B4B298915E1F7F6D7E6D4@Cptr233> Look guys, maybe I am the only one. But I do not care about the business thing, nor your little tiff. Your cluttering up my inbox, so please take this off list, please! Marsha __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5441 (20100910) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From golfereric at comcast.net Sat Sep 11 22:44:33 2010 From: golfereric at comcast.net (Eric Gaudes) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:44:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document Message-ID: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> Hello Everyone I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an accessible form? Thanks, Eric Gaudes From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 23:02:54 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document In-Reply-To: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> Message-ID: On 9/11/10, Eric Gaudes wrote: > Hello Everyone > > > > I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in > the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an > accessible form? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Gaudes > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 23:04:14 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:04:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document In-Reply-To: References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> Message-ID: Sorry about that guys. I didn't mean to reply to this, although I am very interested to know what everyone else says. Have been wondering about this myself. I pressed enter on the send button... Sorry about that. On 9/11/10, Julie McGinnity wrote: > On 9/11/10, Eric Gaudes wrote: >> Hello Everyone >> >> >> >> I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in >> the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an >> accessible form? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Eric Gaudes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 11 23:34:40 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 16:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] In need of some info: Message-ID: <742762.92163.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A few days ago, someone on this list was selling a PC with no OS and 400 GB of space. Can that individual email me off list? william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Thank you in advance, -William- From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 00:04:51 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:04:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <4c8c1946.1eeb640a.721d.ffffd693@mx.google.com> oh well, guess we'll talk later. Someone I know actually runs a radio broadcast show and has sent much more than Paez Production Networks to date. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez o look at this one! Would you trust someone who hits a teen age girl (my sister and her friend) with a cane after dumping a chemical solution over him in the DFW national convention of the NFB? Btw my name's not Dreiser, it is Dreicer. Que verguenza! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> Message-ID: <846C8728216E4027A4284BBD4B376232@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello, I select all with control+a. Then, I press control+c to copy. Then, I open up Microsoft Word or Duxbury, depending on my desire, and when a new blank document is open, I press control+v to paste. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Gaudes" To: Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > Hello Everyone > > > > I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in > the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an > accessible form? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Gaudes > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From davidschool97 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 00:15:12 2010 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 19:15:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <4c8c1949.1eeb640a.721d.ffffd694@mx.google.com> References: <4c8c1949.1eeb640a.721d.ffffd694@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3900E42E4A93439BA19BC26DE4D1BC53@Davidpc> you need to stop. this is not cool your beeting up on us you are not being a good person. stop immeatly stop posting about it on the nabs list by David Thomas Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line Vice President of Paez Production Networks subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Zach DG" Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:04 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > o look at this one! Would you trust someone who hits a teen age girl (my > sister and her friend) with a cane after dumping a chemical solution over > him in the DFW national convention of the NFB? Btw my name's not Dreiser, > it is Dreicer. Que verguenza! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:09:35 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > Nobody trust Zach, please. > You can see at http://www.techsavvypodcasts.com. > > > To be honest, I wish I didn't need to say this, but Zach is a mind wiper. > He's played himself into too much, and tricked my best friends and I > thousands of times. > > Guys, make your own minds up and google TECH SAVVY PODCAST NETWORKS, look > at iTunes. > We're everywhere. Just look and you'll see, > > and whatever you do, > DON'T TRUST ZACH DREISER. > > He was only saying that because he's jealous. > I was forced to fire him after a month and a half of NO WORK on his part, > and the little work he did do was of extremely low quality. > Plus, he told me someone else had fired him from a second job. > > Does that paint you a clear enough profile of who he is? > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 11, 2010, at 5:44 PM, Zach DG wrote: > > don't fall for it, Joe. I can only show you 1 completed podcast since the > company was founded on the first of June. All the other attempts were > thwarted when members did not show up because of technical glitches in the > system. Companies, in my opinion, would do much better when the employes > actually met face to face on a daily basis with their employer. Wouldn't > you agree, Mr. President? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is JAWS Key + > Shift + R. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae > z%40mac.com > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Sep 12 01:49:05 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 21:49:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <4c8c1949.1eeb640a.721d.ffffd694@mx.google.com> References: <4c8c1949.1eeb640a.721d.ffffd694@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <376876D3-214C-4706-BABC-4E35B6EDF5D7@mac.com> Would you trust someone who sets you up to have an accident, then thinks its the best joke in the world? Take care with your words, kid, cause you're only making you look bad. On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Zach DG wrote: > o look at this one! Would you trust someone who hits a teen age girl (my sister and her friend) with a cane after dumping a chemical solution over him in the DFW national convention of the NFB? Btw my name's not Dreiser, it is Dreicer. Que verguenza! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:09:35 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > Nobody trust Zach, please. > You can see at http://www.techsavvypodcasts.com. > > > To be honest, I wish I didn't need to say this, but Zach is a mind wiper. He's played himself into too much, and tricked my best friends and I thousands of times. > > Guys, make your own minds up and google TECH SAVVY PODCAST NETWORKS, look at iTunes. > We're everywhere. Just look and you'll see, > > and whatever you do, > DON'T TRUST ZACH DREISER. > > He was only saying that because he's jealous. > I was forced to fire him after a month and a half of NO WORK on his part, and the little work he did do was of extremely low quality. > Plus, he told me someone else had fired him from a second job. > > Does that paint you a clear enough profile of who he is? > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > On Sep 11, 2010, at 5:44 PM, Zach DG wrote: > > don't fall for it, Joe. I can only show you 1 completed podcast since the company was founded on the first of June. All the other attempts were thwarted when members did not show up because of technical glitches in the system. Companies, in my opinion, would do much better when the employes actually met face to face on a daily basis with their employer. Wouldn't you agree, Mr. President? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > > On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is JAWS Key + > Shift + R. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae > z%40mac.com > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jty727 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 02:01:14 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:01:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <376876D3-214C-4706-BABC-4E35B6EDF5D7@mac.com> References: <4c8c1949.1eeb640a.721d.ffffd694@mx.google.com> <376876D3-214C-4706-BABC-4E35B6EDF5D7@mac.com> Message-ID: No offense, but I would greatly appreciate it if you stop this kind of subject on this list. If you wish to continue please don't involve the rest of the list. thank you On 9/11/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Would you trust someone who sets you up to have an accident, then thinks its > the best joke in the world? > > Take care with your words, kid, cause you're only making you look bad. > > > > > On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Zach DG wrote: > >> o look at this one! Would you trust someone who hits a teen age girl (my >> sister and her friend) with a cane after dumping a chemical solution over >> him in the DFW national convention of the NFB? Btw my name's not Dreiser, >> it is Dreicer. Que verguenza! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:09:35 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students >> >> Nobody trust Zach, please. >> You can see at http://www.techsavvypodcasts.com. >> >> >> To be honest, I wish I didn't need to say this, but Zach is a mind wiper. >> He's played himself into too much, and tricked my best friends and I >> thousands of times. >> >> Guys, make your own minds up and google TECH SAVVY PODCAST NETWORKS, look >> at iTunes. >> We're everywhere. Just look and you'll see, >> >> and whatever you do, >> DON'T TRUST ZACH DREISER. >> >> He was only saying that because he's jealous. >> I was forced to fire him after a month and a half of NO WORK on his part, >> and the little work he did do was of extremely low quality. >> Plus, he told me someone else had fired him from a second job. >> >> Does that paint you a clear enough profile of who he is? >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication >> is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >> message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> On Sep 11, 2010, at 5:44 PM, Zach DG wrote: >> >> don't fall for it, Joe. I can only show you 1 completed podcast since the >> company was founded on the first of June. All the other attempts were >> thwarted when members did not show up because of technical glitches in the >> system. Companies, in my opinion, would do much better when the employes >> actually met face to face on a daily basis with their employer. Wouldn't >> you agree, Mr. President? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students >> >> On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is JAWS Key + >> Shift + R. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik >> er94%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae >> z%40mac.com >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge Paez >> >> >> --- >> President And CEO: >> Paez Production Networks >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note: >> this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. >> Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication >> is directed to. >> If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this >> message and/or any accompanying media. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik >> er94%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 12 02:54:19 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 19:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <318465.91033.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> List Moderator, I think the conversations on this thred are getting a little out of hand and child-like. Sorry for the spelling, using a blacberry. --- On Sat, 9/11/10, Justin Young wrote: > From: Justin Young > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 10:01 PM > No offense, but I would greatly > appreciate it if you stop this kind of > subject on this list.  If you wish to continue please > don't involve > the rest of the list. > thank you > > On 9/11/10, Jorge Paez > wrote: > > Would you trust someone who sets you up to have an > accident, then thinks its > > the best joke in the world? > > > > Take care with your words, kid, cause you're only > making you look bad. > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Zach DG wrote: > > > >> o look at this one! Would you trust someone who > hits a teen age girl (my > >> sister and her friend) with a cane after dumping a > chemical solution over > >> him in the DFW national convention of the NFB? Btw > my name's not Dreiser, > >> it is Dreicer.  Que verguenza! > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Jorge Paez >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list >> Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:09:35 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for > students > >> > >> Nobody trust Zach, please. > >> You can see at http://www.techsavvypodcasts.com. > >> > >> > >> To be honest, I wish I didn't need to say this, > but Zach is a mind wiper. > >> He's played himself into too much, and tricked my > best friends and I > >> thousands of times. > >> > >> Guys, make your own minds up and google TECH SAVVY > PODCAST NETWORKS, look > >> at iTunes. > >> We're everywhere.  Just look and you'll see, > >> > >> and whatever you do, > >> DON'T TRUST ZACH DREISER. > >> > >> He was only saying that because he's jealous. > >> I was forced to fire him after a month and a half > of NO WORK on his part, > >> and the little work he did do was of extremely low > quality. > >> Plus, he told me someone else had fired him from a > second job. > >> > >> Does that paint you a clear enough profile of who > he is? > >> > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jorge Paez > >> > >> > >> --- > >> President And CEO: > >> Paez Production Networks > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Please note: > >> this message may contain confidential and/or > classified information. > >> Such information is only revealed to the person to > whom this communication > >> is directed to. > >> If you have received this message in error, please > type "error" in the > >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any > and all copies of this > >> message and/or any accompanying media. > >> > >> On Sep 11, 2010, at 5:44 PM, Zach DG wrote: > >> > >> don't fall for it, Joe.  I can only show you > 1 completed podcast since the > >> company was founded on the first of June.  > All the other attempts were > >> thwarted when members did not show up because of > technical glitches in the > >> system.  Companies, in my opinion, would do > much better when the employes > >> actually met face to face on a daily basis with > their employer.  Wouldn't > >> you agree, Mr.  President? > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" > >> >> Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for > students > >> > >> On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly > to sender is JAWS Key + > >> Shift + R. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: > some turn up their sleeves, > >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up > at all."--Sam Ewing > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > >> er94%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae > >> z%40mac.com > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jorge Paez > >> > >> > >> --- > >> President And CEO: > >> Paez Production Networks > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Please note: > >> this message may contain confidential and/or > classified information. > >> Such information is only revealed to the person to > whom this communication > >> is directed to. > >> If you have received this message in error, please > type "error" in the > >> subject line for the reply message and destroy any > and all copies of this > >> message and/or any accompanying media. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > >> er94%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Sep 12 04:05:21 2010 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:05:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Advice for Nattally! Message-ID: <001301cb522f$b9219f00$9560c747@BRIAN> Nattily, My name is Brian. I recently graduated from college myself and would love to share some tips with you on applying for graduate programs. Email me at brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net or call me on my cellular phone at 412-862-8644. From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 04:10:01 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:10:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduatestudents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, natalie, I'm a second-year graduate student in psychology and also totally blind. I took the GRE in 2008 and my experiences were similar to what Joe talked about. I would be happy to talk to you more about grad school in general so feel free to contact me off-list with any specific questions. Good luck! Katie On 9/11/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Natalie, > > I took the GRE in 2007 and can give you some advice. The accommodations > process was a little taxing but not totally frustrating. In the way of > accommodations, I got Braille exam, reader/scribe, Perkins Braille writer > and the use of my laptop for the writing section. I wrote the essays onto a > thumb drive which the Procter then connected to a lab computer and printed. > I had no real difficulties in obtaining these accommodations, and after my > accommodations were approved, I was provided a two-volume test prep in > Braille which I used to get ready. I read a few discussion forums to learn > more about the nature of the exam, but if I had to break it down into a few > simple tips, they would be these: > > 1. Start more than 6 months in advance to request your accommodations, just > to ensure everything is set and ready to go on test day. I think I had to > get some things provided by my doctor and so forth. Allow for response > time. > > 2. Prepare for all the sections equally. Do not presume that because you're > better at verbal than math that you should spend more time on math. I speak > from experience. > > 3. From all the materials you get your hands on, develop a study guide that > succinctly jogs your memory in the couple weeks before the exam. The GRE is > not something you can study for in the sense of memorization, but there are > strategies you can use to loosen your mind to take on the test. > > Good luck on the test, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nat Barrett > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:50 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind > graduatestudents > > > Hello Nabs list, > > My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list a day or > so ago. I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone recommended > I try this mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. > > First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm not a > student now, I was a student up until this past May. Since > graduating I've debated with myself on whether to continue on > with a masters degree. I really would love to, but I've come > across a few roadblocks. > > My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would like to > talk with anyone offlist if they're blind and have taken the > GRE. Or done whatever needs to be done to get into the graduate > program at their respective schools. I really would like to > know how they studied, what kinds of accomodations they got for > it and so on. > > I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter this e-mail. > I'm interested in talking to anyone who can help me. Even if > they're not a graduate student now. Anyone with any kind of > tips, advice, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > Thank you, > Natalie > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 06:56:40 2010 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:56:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document In-Reply-To: <846C8728216E4027A4284BBD4B376232@AnitaAdkinsPC> References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> <846C8728216E4027A4284BBD4B376232@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: This can also be done with kurzweil if you have that software. Bill Lewis & Clark '11 On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Anita Adkins wrote: > Hello, > > I select all with control+a. Then, I press control+c to copy. Then, I > open up Microsoft Word or Duxbury, depending on my desire, and when a new > blank document is open, I press control+v to paste. Anita > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Gaudes" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > > > Hello Everyone >> >> >> >> I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in >> the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an >> accessible form? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Eric Gaudes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 12 08:17:43 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 01:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduatestudents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <690914.82705.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Natalie, Please email me off-list to: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com. I will give you helpful imput and some advice from my points of view since I am about to take the GRE for a second time. --- On Sun, 9/12/10, Katie Wang wrote: > From: Katie Wang > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduatestudents > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 12:10 AM > Hi, natalie, >   I'm a second-year graduate student in psychology and > also totally > blind. I took the GRE  in 2008 and my experiences were > similar to what > Joe talked about. I would be happy to talk to you more > about grad > school in general so feel free to contact me off-list with > any > specific questions. Good luck! >    Katie > > On 9/11/10, Joe Orozco > wrote: > > Natalie, > > > > I took the GRE in 2007 and can give you some > advice.  The accommodations > > process was a little taxing but not totally > frustrating.  In the way of > > accommodations, I got Braille exam, reader/scribe, > Perkins Braille writer > > and the use of my laptop for the writing > section.  I wrote the essays onto a > > thumb drive which the Procter then connected to a lab > computer and printed. > > I had no real difficulties in obtaining these > accommodations, and after my > > accommodations were approved, I was provided a > two-volume test prep in > > Braille which I used to get ready.  I read a few > discussion forums to learn > > more about the nature of the exam, but if I had to > break it down into a few > > simple tips, they would be these: > > > > 1. Start more than 6 months in advance to request your > accommodations, just > > to ensure everything is set and ready to go on test > day.  I think I had to > > get some things provided by my doctor and so > forth.  Allow for response > > time. > > > > 2. Prepare for all the sections equally.  Do not > presume that because you're > > better at verbal than math that you should spend more > time on math.  I speak > > from experience. > > > > 3. From all the materials you get your hands on, > develop a study guide that > > succinctly jogs your memory in the couple weeks before > the exam.  The GRE is > > not something you can study for in the sense of > memorization, but there are > > strategies you can use to loosen your mind to take on > the test. > > > > Good luck on the test, > > > > Joe > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some > turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Nat Barrett > > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:50 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from > any blind > > graduatestudents > > > > > > Hello Nabs list, > > > > My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list > a day or > > so ago. I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone > recommended > > I try this mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers > crossed. > > > > First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm > not a > > student now, I was a student up until this past May. > Since > > graduating I've debated with myself on whether to > continue on > > with a masters degree. I really would love to, but > I've come > > across a few roadblocks. > > > > My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would > like to > > talk with anyone offlist if they're blind and have > taken the > > GRE. Or done whatever needs to be done to get into the > graduate > > program at their respective schools. I really would > like to > > know how they studied, what kinds of accomodations > they got for > > it and so on. > > > > I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter > this e-mail. > > I'm interested in talking to anyone who can help me. > Even if > > they're not a graduate student now. Anyone with any > kind of > > tips, advice, or suggestions will be appreciated. > > > > Thank you, > > Natalie > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account > > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Sep 12 06:58:52 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 02:58:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduate students Message-ID: <20100912065852.695.72407@web2> Natalie, Getting into grad school is a multi-step process that can (lets face it) be anoying and difficult for anyone regardless of disability. The trick is to stay on top of things once you get the process started and try to stay as organized as possible. So far as blindness goes, you'll need a list of skills in order to float this grad school boat. firstly, you'll want to consider the school you wish to attend. Most schools have decent web sites with reasonable amounts of info regarding their programs. You may find surfing these sites useful to get a sense of what you're doing. Also, make friends with people in the program you'd like to get into because a phone call or personal conversation can do a lot for you in terms of collecting information and getting noticed. Some university programs have electronic application forms whee you can apply for grad school online. Some don't. It just takes a bit of investigation on your part. If the application is online and accessible, I highly suggest you do it online. If not, you'll need a reader for a paper ap. As for the GRE, you can only apply on paper because your application will need to go specifically through the disability center. Your application has four parts: the general registration form, your disability information (the nature of your disability and your proposed acommodations), a statement from a service profesional varifying that you have a disability and that you use your proposed accommodations on a regular basis, and some sort of varification from a physician regarding your disability. The application fee is $130 and can be paid by either yourself or your rehab agency. If your rehab agency pays for it, you'll have an additional step in your process in order for them to both authorize the expenditure on their end and fill out their payment info for the ETS. Once your paper application is in, you play the waiting game for about four to six weeks in order for ETS (the Educational testing services) and their disability center to register you, find you a testing center, and agree to your proposed accommodations. Generally, you'll get the accommodations you want. In terms of blindness, there are several accommodations to choose from including a Braille test, a live reader, a live scribe, a recorded test, a print test, a print answer sheet, large print materials, a special workplace with additional lighting, a typing device such as a brailler or laptop or typewriter for essays, a slate and stylus, a computer test, and a number of ways you can mix and match these. You can also ask for extended time. To be honest with you, I took the extended time because I wanted my test in Braille, but I'm not the world's fastest reader. I also have test anxiety during standardized exams. The time I had still wasn't enough for everything, and there's no way in hell sighted people get all their test done in the 2 hours and 50 minutes alotted to them. Frankly, they need more time, too. In terms of communication and coordination between ETS and your grad school, make sure there's loads of time as things can get dicy in terms of getting your scores electronically from ETS to your grad school, the actual application, etc. Don't be surprised if you find yourself making tons of phone calls to either entity for any reason. You can get GRE practice materials in Braille if you want. that's what I did. When they get your paperwork, a representative from the GRE disability group wil contact you by phone or TTY just to touch bases and clarify anything needing clarification. You can also choose your test date at this time and request practice materials. Sorry for the rambling nature of this post, but I hope it helps. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello Nabs list, > My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list a day or so ago. > I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone recommended I try this > mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. > First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm not a student now, > I was a student up until this past May. Since graduating I've debated > with myself on whether to continue on with a masters degree. I really > would love to, but I've come across a few roadblocks. > My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would like to talk with > anyone offlist if they're blind and have taken the GRE. Or done > whatever needs to be done to get into the graduate program at their > respective schools. I really would like to know how they studied, what > kinds of accomodations they got for it and so on. > I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter this e-mail. I'm > interested in talking to anyone who can help me. Even if they're not a > graduate student now. Anyone with any kind of tips, advice, or > suggestions will be appreciated. > Thank you, > Natalie > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Sep 12 06:33:46 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 02:33:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <20100912063346.1209.94676@web3> Public or private doesn't matter to me, but that was just plain tactless and out of line. Even if your statements are true (and I am not qualified to make that judgement), I would highly encourage you to be careful how you word things electronically for two reasons: first, electronic messages are permanent in the sense that they will always exist somewhere in the netosphere either in some way out of the way place where deleted files are kept or in someone else's electronic file drawer; second, electronic messages (especially those in writing) can easily be taken way out of context because the other social cues we rely on (the non-verbal stuff like tone of voice and body language) aren't there to really derive subtle meanings from. with those two things in mind, the wise business person is careful in her or his language to customers and staff (and anyone else for that matter) because one never really knows. Just a friendly reminder. Respectfully, Jedi Moerke List Committee chair Original message: > Zach: > I can't talk about it publicly, but you should've been made aware that > the last email, regarding the podcasts was final? > Remember how you were so arrogant in saying "I hate working with those > who don't get their act together and will form my own company?" > Business doesn't forgive or forget easy, you're exempt from the offer, > as we've had our "experience" with you, and you know exactly what I > mean, so don't even try to fake innocence here. > Jorge > P.S., sorry to other NAB members, had no way of making this private. > On Sep 11, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Zach DG wrote: >> hi jorge, >> If you will please respond to my earlier email dated yesterday around >> 8:50 PM, I have expressed interest in your project. Thank you. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:09:26 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students >> Hello all: >> I am writing because I have a possible money-making opportunity for >> those of you interested. >> Background: >> TECH SAVVY PODCASTS DOT COM (www.techsavvypodcasts.com), is a podcast >> network with over 8000 visits a day, and a very popular podcast which >> in June hit its peek subscriber count at over 52 subscribers in under 1 >> month, with an average iTunes rating of 4 stars, and drawing listeners >> from around the podcast spectrum, from followers of the Maccessibility >> Network, to members and listeners of the award winning TWIT.tv shows. >> We cover all aspects of technology, heavily focusing on accessibility >> and assistive technology. We discuss: >> -accessible technology and services >> -asistive technology news and/or reviews. >> Offer: >> We are currently looking for podcasters for our network. You can >> either join the team from NO EYES REQUIRED, our flagship podcast, or >> you can start your own podcast. Any podcasts are welcome as long as >> they are about technology, and focused on how it is accessible, or >> assistive technology for the blind. >> The money making opportunity arises upon the creation of your show, >> because we also will give you a marketing kit for your podcast. This >> kit is for your advertising campaigns. (details about the finances >> will be disclosed only to member podcasters.) Basically, you are free >> to search for advertisers, and sign them, however you must show us >> proof of signature, and we will charge you a small "member's fee" for >> your show based on the financial details of your agreement with the >> advertisers involved. >> If you're interested, please contact me off list. >> Jorge >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik >> er94%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Sep 12 06:38:07 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 02:38:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students Message-ID: <20100912063807.3914.23879@web1> Telecommuting workplaces work really well for many companies. For example, SEROTEK is a teleworkplace in the sense that every employee is in a different state and they most often communicate via e-mail and through online chat. what makes them work so well is that they are always in communication (the boss and the employees). Telebusiness is a tricky thing and it takes a lot of skill to accomplish, but it is doable and is done quite well in the case of SEROTEK. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > also, assuming they actually got a start (other than that one > mentioned podcast) how would the employer, in this case our > friend Jorge, actually ensure that the money got to his employes? > Through the mail? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is > JAWS Key + > Shift + R. > Best, > Joe > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik > er94%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Sep 12 14:50:48 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:50:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> Message-ID: <9B1D8391FBD042AA9C11E4C8BB60DAC3@Serene> Itt depends ... Is Jaws reading the file to you at all? If yes, you can probably export it into a text document. If, however, Jaws is not reading anything to you, that probably means there is only an immage of the text in the file, not actual text. In this case, you cannot export the file into a text document. You'll have to print out the file and scan it into Kurzweil. Depending on how the immage looks, the file may or may not scan very well. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Gaudes" To: Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > Hello Everyone > > > > I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in > the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an > accessible form? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Gaudes > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From rob_blach at hotmail.com Sun Sep 12 14:53:50 2010 From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:53:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document In-Reply-To: <9B1D8391FBD042AA9C11E4C8BB60DAC3@Serene> References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> <9B1D8391FBD042AA9C11E4C8BB60DAC3@Serene> Message-ID: You can also use the vertual printer and without having to print and scan. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Serena" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:50 AM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > Itt depends ... Is Jaws reading the file to you at all? If yes, you can > probably export it into a text document. If, however, Jaws is not reading > anything to you, that probably means there is only an immage of the text > in the file, not actual text. In this case, you cannot export the file > into a text document. You'll have to print out the file and scan it into > Kurzweil. Depending on how the immage looks, the file may or may not scan > very well. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Gaudes" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > > >> Hello Everyone >> >> >> >> I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out in >> the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to an >> accessible form? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Eric Gaudes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Sep 12 15:37:56 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:37:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP><9B1D8391FBD042AA9C11E4C8BB60DAC3@Serene> Message-ID: <80931BD3DA944BA08C2FDA132721D953@Serene> What's the virtual printer? Please tell me more about how that works. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Blachowicz" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > You can also use the vertual printer and without having to print and scan. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Serena" > Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:50 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > >> Itt depends ... Is Jaws reading the file to you at all? If yes, you can >> probably export it into a text document. If, however, Jaws is not >> reading anything to you, that probably means there is only an immage of >> the text in the file, not actual text. In this case, you cannot export >> the file into a text document. You'll have to print out the file and >> scan it into Kurzweil. Depending on how the immage looks, the file may or >> may not scan very well. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Eric Gaudes" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document >> >> >>> Hello Everyone >>> >>> >>> >>> I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out >>> in >>> the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to >>> an >>> accessible form? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Eric Gaudes >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 16:51:25 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:51:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students In-Reply-To: <20100912063807.3914.23879@web1> References: <20100912063807.3914.23879@web1> Message-ID: Hi all, This discussion is not only unacceptable in its tone, but also completely irrelevant to the purpose of the NABS listserv. I understand both Zach and George have been contacted off-list by our listserv chair. Continuing this line of personal attack on-list will result in listserv probation or banishment from the list, if this hasn't happened already. It's just not worth it. Arielle Silverman, President National Association of Blind Students On 9/12/10, Jedi wrote: > Telecommuting workplaces work really well for many companies. For > example, SEROTEK is a teleworkplace in the sense that every employee is > in a different state and they most often communicate via e-mail and > through online chat. what makes them work so well is that they are > always in communication (the boss and the employees). Telebusiness is a > tricky thing and it takes a lot of skill to accomplish, but it is > doable and is done quite well in the case of SEROTEK. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> also, assuming they actually got a start (other than that one >> mentioned podcast) how would the employer, in this case our >> friend Jorge, actually ensure that the money got to his employes? >> Through the mail? > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:33:14 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] money-making opportunity for students > >> On JAWS at least, the key stroke to send directly to sender is >> JAWS Key + >> Shift + R. > >> Best, > >> Joe > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >> Ewing > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.bik >> er94%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 18:48:36 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 14:48:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document In-Reply-To: <80931BD3DA944BA08C2FDA132721D953@Serene> References: <3F7232F6A12F491C954440A9EFB57C34@SCHOOLLAPTOP> <9B1D8391FBD042AA9C11E4C8BB60DAC3@Serene> <80931BD3DA944BA08C2FDA132721D953@Serene> Message-ID: Hi, Serena, The virtual printer is a wonderful feature built into OCR programs like kurzweil and Open Book to convert image files into an accessible format. I personally use Open Book so don't know the exact steps for kurzweil, but basically you can open the pdf document using your OCR program and it will automatically recognize it as if it were scanning a printed document. For Open Book, you could also go directly to the pdf file, choose File, Print, and then select the Freedom Import Printer, and it will do the same trick. The result will of course depend on the quality of the image, but it does save a lot of trouble of printing and scanning. I discovered this feature a few years back and it has definitely been a great help in processing all the pdf book chapters my professors distribute. Hope this helps, and let me know if my explanation doesn't make sense! Katie On 9/12/10, Serena wrote: > What's the virtual printer? Please tell me more about how that works. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob Blachowicz" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document > > >> You can also use the vertual printer and without having to print and scan. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Serena" >> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:50 AM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document >> >>> Itt depends ... Is Jaws reading the file to you at all? If yes, you can >>> probably export it into a text document. If, however, Jaws is not >>> reading anything to you, that probably means there is only an immage of >>> the text in the file, not actual text. In this case, you cannot export >>> the file into a text document. You'll have to print out the file and >>> scan it into Kurzweil. Depending on how the immage looks, the file may or >>> >>> may not scan very well. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Eric Gaudes" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:44 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] PDF Document to Accessible Word Document >>> >>> >>>> Hello Everyone >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have a PDF file that I can open but isn't allowing me to fill it out >>>> in >>>> the PDF document. So is there another way to transfer this document to >>>> an >>>> accessible form? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Eric Gaudes >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 19:34:30 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:34:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] using gmail with Outlook Express Message-ID: Hi, all, Thanks for all your help with Google Docs! I have another Google-related question: Has anyone tried to access the imap gmail server using outlook Express? I followed all the configuration instructions on-line, but Outlook keeps telling me that the gmail folder is an unknown mailbox. I know this is not exactly an accessibility-related question, but I'm wondering whether any of you who are technology-minded out there knows what may be causing the problem and how to solve it. Thanks! Katie From davidschool97 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 19:41:32 2010 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 14:41:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] using Gmail with Outlook Express In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50163CE7B41A4A8C949B90760D5B69A0@Davidpc> if you have Skype you could add me and I could talk to you more about your problem and I could probably fix it David Thomas Owner and moderator of electronicsandmorefortheblind at electronicsfortheblind-request at emissives.com with subscribe in the subject line Vice President of Paez Production Networks subscribe to No Eyes required on iTunes e-mail me with any concerns at davidschool97 at gmail.com Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Katie Wang" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:34 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] using gmail with Outlook Express > Hi, all, > Thanks for all your help with Google Docs! I have another > Google-related question: Has anyone tried to access the imap gmail > server using outlook Express? I followed all the configuration > instructions on-line, but Outlook keeps telling me that the gmail > folder is an unknown mailbox. I know this is not exactly an > accessibility-related question, but I'm wondering whether any of you > who are technology-minded out there knows what may be causing the > problem and how to solve it. Thanks! > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 19:45:29 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 14:45:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] using gmail with Outlook Express References: Message-ID: Katie, Perhaps you've done this already, but in addition to putting the correct IMAP settings in Outlook Express, you also have to enable IMP from within the web interface of gmail as well. What you want to do is log into your gmail account, go to settings and there should be a radio button or something to enable IMAP. Click on save the settings when you're done. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] using gmail with Outlook Express > Hi, all, > Thanks for all your help with Google Docs! I have another > Google-related question: Has anyone tried to access the imap gmail > server using outlook Express? I followed all the configuration > instructions on-line, but Outlook keeps telling me that the gmail > folder is an unknown mailbox. I know this is not exactly an > accessibility-related question, but I'm wondering whether any of you > who are technology-minded out there knows what may be causing the > problem and how to solve it. Thanks! > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From stacy.cervenka at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 21:24:02 2010 From: stacy.cervenka at gmail.com (Stacy Leigh Cervenka) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 17:24:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Used BrailleNote Classic $200 or best offer Message-ID: Hey, everyone, I'm trying to sell an old BrailleNote Classic with a 6-key Braille-style keyboard that I used in my undergrad days, but haven't touched in nearly 5 years. I want to get rid of the unit ASAP, but it's in very usable condition, so it seems like a shame to just trash it. Please see the details below and email me at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com if you're interested. Thanks. Braille Note BT Classic (with a Perkins-style Braille keyboard) Keysoft version 4.01 USB printer/scanner cord Telephone/modem cord Serial cable for a printer BrailleNote PC software Regular print user guide and command summary Large print command summary User's guide is available electronically, as it is installed on the BrailleNote itself. Got it in 2001; used in until 2006; haven't used it since. Some of the cells on the Braille display are a little bit sticky (a little bit slow in going down), but still very usable. Overall unit is in good condition, just outdated and used. $200 or best offer (includes shipping) Contact Stacy at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 21:40:04 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 17:40:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduate students In-Reply-To: <20100912065852.695.72407@web2> References: <20100912065852.695.72407@web2> Message-ID: I just took the GRE, and some great advice has been given, but what hasn't been mentioned is that now blind students can use a voiced GRE. It is awesome, and ETS will send you a practice test so you can become familiar with the key strokes which honestly are not different from typical screen readers, just a few test specific things. That way, you can get your unofficial math and verbal scores right after the test so no suspense in waiting! Definitely email me at clb5590 at gmail.com. I have some great study materials to pass along, and can give some tips. I am just now looking at programs, so I can't tell you what grad school is like, but I can tell you what I plan to do, and just some general grad school tips that i have heard. And NABS board, I think a grad school/GRE/other grad school entrance exam conference call would be well attended just based on how many emails i have seen on the list about it in the last year. Maybe sometime sooner than later would be better since grad apps are typically due in December, psychology ones that is; other programs might be different. Cindy On 9/12/10, Jedi wrote: > Natalie, > > Getting into grad school is a multi-step process that can (lets face > it) be anoying and difficult for anyone regardless of disability. The > trick is to stay on top of things once you get the process started and > try to stay as organized as possible. So far as blindness goes, you'll > need a list of skills in order to float this grad school boat. > > firstly, you'll want to consider the school you wish to attend. Most > schools have decent web sites with reasonable amounts of info regarding > their programs. You may find surfing these sites useful to get a sense > of what you're doing. Also, make friends with people in the program > you'd like to get into because a phone call or personal conversation > can do a lot for you in terms of collecting information and getting noticed. > > Some university programs have electronic application forms whee you can > apply for grad school online. Some don't. It just takes a bit of > investigation on your part. If the application is online and > accessible, I highly suggest you do it online. If not, you'll need a > reader for a paper ap. > > As for the GRE, you can only apply on paper because your application > will need to go specifically through the disability center. Your > application has four parts: the general registration form, your > disability information (the nature of your disability and your proposed > acommodations), a statement from a service profesional varifying that > you have a disability and that you use your proposed accommodations on > a regular basis, and some sort of varification from a physician > regarding your disability. The application fee is $130 and can be paid > by either yourself or your rehab agency. If your rehab agency pays for > it, you'll have an additional step in your process in order for them to > both authorize the expenditure on their end and fill out their payment > info for the ETS. Once your paper application is in, you play the > waiting game for about four to six weeks in order for ETS (the > Educational testing services) and their disability center to register > you, find you a testing center, and agree to your proposed > accommodations. Generally, you'll get the accommodations you want. > > In terms of blindness, there are several accommodations to choose from > including a Braille test, a live reader, a live scribe, a recorded > test, a print test, a print answer sheet, large print materials, a > special workplace with additional lighting, a typing device such as a > brailler or laptop or typewriter for essays, a slate and stylus, a > computer test, and a number of ways you can mix and match these. You > can also ask for extended time. To be honest with you, I took the > extended time because I wanted my test in Braille, but I'm not the > world's fastest reader. I also have test anxiety during standardized > exams. The time I had still wasn't enough for everything, and there's > no way in hell sighted people get all their test done in the 2 hours > and 50 minutes alotted to them. Frankly, they need more time, too. > > In terms of communication and coordination between ETS and your grad > school, make sure there's loads of time as things can get dicy in terms > of getting your scores electronically from ETS to your grad school, the > actual application, etc. Don't be surprised if you find yourself making > tons of phone calls to either entity for any reason. > > You can get GRE practice materials in Braille if you want. that's what > I did. When they get your paperwork, a representative from the GRE > disability group wil contact you by phone or TTY just to touch bases > and clarify anything needing clarification. You can also choose your > test date at this time and request practice materials. > > Sorry for the rambling nature of this post, but I hope it helps. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: > >> Hello Nabs list, > >> My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list a day or so ago. >> I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone recommended I try this >> mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. > >> First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm not a student now, >> I was a student up until this past May. Since graduating I've debated >> with myself on whether to continue on with a masters degree. I really >> would love to, but I've come across a few roadblocks. > >> My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would like to talk with >> anyone offlist if they're blind and have taken the GRE. Or done >> whatever needs to be done to get into the graduate program at their >> respective schools. I really would like to know how they studied, what >> kinds of accomodations they got for it and so on. > >> I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter this e-mail. I'm >> interested in talking to anyone who can help me. Even if they're not a >> graduate student now. Anyone with any kind of tips, advice, or >> suggestions will be appreciated. > >> Thank you, >> Natalie >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Sun Sep 12 23:22:46 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:22:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Non-traditional Students Conference call! Message-ID: Hi all, A reminder that NABS will be holding a conference call for non-traditional college students at 7:30 Eastern tonight - that's in a few minutes! Call-in info is as follows: (712) 775-7100 passcode 257963. Take care, Liz - NABS Membership Committee email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 01:54:01 2010 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach DG) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:54:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] recent list activity: my sincere apologies! Message-ID: <4c8d845c.1de9640a.6f7c.fffff87e@mx.google.com> hi David, Jorge, and NABS, I write tonight in regret for continuing such a conversation on list. I thought by hitting reply and removing this address once that this would do it, but one of us accidentally put it back, it appears. So please do accept my apologies and know that the three of us have called and are good amigos again. From nfbnj at yahoo.com Mon Sep 13 02:58:40 2010 From: nfbnj at yahoo.com (Joe Ruffalo) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:58:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFBNJ: announcement, radio show, Wed. Sept. 15, 8:00 pm eastern Message-ID: Greetings to all! The following information is provided. On Wednesday, September 15 at 8:00 pm eastern, Joe Ruffalo,national board member, president of the state affiliate in New Jersey and host of Thru Our Eyes will interview Shafeka Hashash,high school student and member of the National Federation of the Blind Students Division. The interview will highlight her experience as a delegate appointed by the United Nations to represent the United States at a disability conference held in Syria this past August. The interview will also feature her involvement in the organization, school and the community as a teacher and student in changing what it means to be blind. Once again, please join us for this informative, inspiring and educational interview. How to access Thru Our Eyes logging into www.thruoureyes.org or for JAWS users www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html If you wish to call in with a question or comment, please call 1 888 572 0141 remember: When we all do, it becomes doable! The more we try, the more we succeed. Everything is impossible until you do it. Keep believing. Keep dreaming. Keep learning Let's work together. Let's make a difference! Joseph J. Ruffalo President, National Federation of the Blind of New Jersey Phone: 973-743-0075 Please visit our State and National Web Sites http://www.nfbnj.org http://www.thruoureyes.org http://www.blindchildren.org http://www.nfb.org Email:nfbnj at yahoo.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 04:55:30 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:55:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduate students In-Reply-To: References: <20100912065852.695.72407@web2> Message-ID: Hi Natalie and all, My name is Arielle Silverman and I'm a third-year doctoral student at the University of Colorado studying social (experimental) psychology. I am also totally blind and the president of NABS and would like to welcome you to the list. I'd be glad to answer any questions on or off-list about GRE's or anything else related to grad school. However, I would like to offer just a few positive words about grad school because I think many blind students in particular have a lot of fear and trepidation about entering grad programs. What I will say from my experience is that the past two years of grad school have been a hundred times easier for me as far as accessibility than my undergrad days. There are a few major reasons for this: no required textbooks, much smaller classes, and no complicated online teaching systems, to name a few. Of course I have to read a lot, but my reading all comes from articles that are emailed to my entire class, for example, so I don't need to get anything "converted" to alternative format. Every program has its own unique situation, but it is definitely possible that you will find yourself on a more equal playing field with your classmates as a grad student. I am very busy and challenged in my program (i.e. general comprehensive exams approaching this May!) but very little of the stress I experience in school is related to blindness. Anyway, I look forward to hearing from you about your academic interests. I also agree that a GRE/applying conference call would be very beneficial. Ruth Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, has been a longtime partner with NABS and I believe she is following our listserv. She is always available to answer emails from students at rloew at ets.org and I am guessing she would be willing and interested in participating in a conference call with our membership. Arielle On 9/12/10, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I just took the GRE, and some great advice has been given, but what > hasn't been mentioned is that now blind students can use a voiced GRE. > It is awesome, and ETS will send you a practice test so you can become > familiar with the key strokes which honestly are not different from > typical screen readers, just a few test specific things. That way, you > can get your unofficial math and verbal scores right after the test so > no suspense in waiting! > > Definitely email me at clb5590 at gmail.com. I have some great study > materials to pass along, and can give some tips. I am just now looking > at programs, so I can't tell you what grad school is like, but I can > tell you what I plan to do, and just some general grad school tips > that i have heard. > > And NABS board, I think a grad school/GRE/other grad school entrance > exam conference call would be well attended just based on how many > emails i have seen on the list about it in the last year. Maybe > sometime sooner than later would be better since grad apps are > typically due in December, psychology ones that is; other programs > might be different. > > Cindy > > On 9/12/10, Jedi wrote: >> Natalie, >> >> Getting into grad school is a multi-step process that can (lets face >> it) be anoying and difficult for anyone regardless of disability. The >> trick is to stay on top of things once you get the process started and >> try to stay as organized as possible. So far as blindness goes, you'll >> need a list of skills in order to float this grad school boat. >> >> firstly, you'll want to consider the school you wish to attend. Most >> schools have decent web sites with reasonable amounts of info regarding >> their programs. You may find surfing these sites useful to get a sense >> of what you're doing. Also, make friends with people in the program >> you'd like to get into because a phone call or personal conversation >> can do a lot for you in terms of collecting information and getting >> noticed. >> >> Some university programs have electronic application forms whee you can >> apply for grad school online. Some don't. It just takes a bit of >> investigation on your part. If the application is online and >> accessible, I highly suggest you do it online. If not, you'll need a >> reader for a paper ap. >> >> As for the GRE, you can only apply on paper because your application >> will need to go specifically through the disability center. Your >> application has four parts: the general registration form, your >> disability information (the nature of your disability and your proposed >> acommodations), a statement from a service profesional varifying that >> you have a disability and that you use your proposed accommodations on >> a regular basis, and some sort of varification from a physician >> regarding your disability. The application fee is $130 and can be paid >> by either yourself or your rehab agency. If your rehab agency pays for >> it, you'll have an additional step in your process in order for them to >> both authorize the expenditure on their end and fill out their payment >> info for the ETS. Once your paper application is in, you play the >> waiting game for about four to six weeks in order for ETS (the >> Educational testing services) and their disability center to register >> you, find you a testing center, and agree to your proposed >> accommodations. Generally, you'll get the accommodations you want. >> >> In terms of blindness, there are several accommodations to choose from >> including a Braille test, a live reader, a live scribe, a recorded >> test, a print test, a print answer sheet, large print materials, a >> special workplace with additional lighting, a typing device such as a >> brailler or laptop or typewriter for essays, a slate and stylus, a >> computer test, and a number of ways you can mix and match these. You >> can also ask for extended time. To be honest with you, I took the >> extended time because I wanted my test in Braille, but I'm not the >> world's fastest reader. I also have test anxiety during standardized >> exams. The time I had still wasn't enough for everything, and there's >> no way in hell sighted people get all their test done in the 2 hours >> and 50 minutes alotted to them. Frankly, they need more time, too. >> >> In terms of communication and coordination between ETS and your grad >> school, make sure there's loads of time as things can get dicy in terms >> of getting your scores electronically from ETS to your grad school, the >> actual application, etc. Don't be surprised if you find yourself making >> tons of phone calls to either entity for any reason. >> >> You can get GRE practice materials in Braille if you want. that's what >> I did. When they get your paperwork, a representative from the GRE >> disability group wil contact you by phone or TTY just to touch bases >> and clarify anything needing clarification. You can also choose your >> test date at this time and request practice materials. >> >> Sorry for the rambling nature of this post, but I hope it helps. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >> >>> Hello Nabs list, >> >>> My name is Natalie and I only joined the mailing list a day or so ago. >>> I'm really hoping to get some help. Someone recommended I try this >>> mailing list, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. >> >>> First off, I'm a totally blind person, and while I'm not a student now, >>> I was a student up until this past May. Since graduating I've debated >>> with myself on whether to continue on with a masters degree. I really >>> would love to, but I've come across a few roadblocks. >> >>> My first roadblock is taking the GRE. I really would like to talk with >>> anyone offlist if they're blind and have taken the GRE. Or done >>> whatever needs to be done to get into the graduate program at their >>> respective schools. I really would like to know how they studied, what >>> kinds of accomodations they got for it and so on. >> >>> I have more questions, but I don't want to clutter this e-mail. I'm >>> interested in talking to anyone who can help me. Even if they're not a >>> graduate student now. Anyone with any kind of tips, advice, or >>> suggestions will be appreciated. >> >>> Thank you, >>> Natalie >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 04:56:58 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 00:56:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call Message-ID: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> I just wanted to thank the committee for holding the conference call this evening for nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was wondering for any other nontrads, did you notice any differences in joining social activities? Were you accepted even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things will be fine. Thanks Anjelina From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 05:46:49 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:46:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> References: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: For me, i'm kind of a non- triditional student and didn't find that it was too difficult for me to be accepted. I find that age is less the issue, but more the issue is the energy you put into things. I was nervous heading back, but I kind of just went for it and didn't think too much about how out of place I might be, because truth is you are going to know as much as some, less than some and more than some. Hope that helps, Darian On 9/12/10, Anjelina wrote: > I just wanted to thank the committee for holding the conference call this > evening for nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it > comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. > It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was wondering for any > other nontrads, did you notice any differences in joining social activities? > Were you accepted even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably > worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things will be fine. > > Thanks > Anjelina > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 13 13:17:19 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:17:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> References: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: Angelina, I'm glad you could attend the call. As for being nervous, I can understand that. I think the more conference call situations you find yourself in, that may become less of an issue. I'm sorry I can't provide any insight to your question, but I would think that people would value your experience as being different from theirs and have no problem accepting you. It may also depend on what kinds of social activities you attend, but I'm not positive. I hope that helped, at least somewhat. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 13 13:19:17 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:19:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduate students In-Reply-To: References: <20100912065852.695.72407@web2> Message-ID: Arielle, No required textbooks? LUCKY! Hahaha! I think a GRE/entrance exam conference call would be beneficial. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Sep 13 13:29:26 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:29:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Would love some help or advice from any blind graduate students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Natalie, Feel free to write me off-list. I took the GRE this past January and am in my first semester of school right now. Take care, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 14:21:02 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:21:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call References: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: Makes sense Liz and Darian. Thanks Anjelina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call For me, i'm kind of a non- triditional student and didn't find that it was too difficult for me to be accepted. I find that age is less the issue, but more the issue is the energy you put into things. I was nervous heading back, but I kind of just went for it and didn't think too much about how out of place I might be, because truth is you are going to know as much as some, less than some and more than some. Hope that helps, Darian On 9/12/10, Anjelina wrote: > I just wanted to thank the committee for holding the conference call this > evening for nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it > comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. > It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was wondering for any > other nontrads, did you notice any differences in joining social > activities? > Were you accepted even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably > worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things will be fine. > > Thanks > Anjelina > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Sep 13 17:25:08 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: <416053.42001.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I actually completely forgot about this. Would it be possible for NABS to hold another conference call for non-traditional students? thanks Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/12/10, Anjelina wrote: > From: Anjelina > Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 11:56 PM > I just wanted to thank the committee > for holding the conference call this evening for > nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it > comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. > It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was > wondering for any other nontrads, did you notice any > differences in joining social activities? Were you accepted > even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably > worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things > will be fine. > > Thanks > Anjelina > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 19:02:17 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:02:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> References: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: <95EB006231E1404DA59E6EB37BDA7EEE@Cptr233> Angie, I am enrolled in a community college, but I do know its different for universities. At my community college, most of the students in my classes are older, my age. And no I am not attending at night. When I found this out, it was very nice to know I am not the only one doing this at an older age. Wow did I make myself sound old or what. I am not for the record, might feel like it, to all you YoungIns LOL Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anjelina Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call I just wanted to thank the committee for holding the conference call this evening for nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was wondering for any other nontrads, did you notice any differences in joining social activities? Were you accepted even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things will be fine. Thanks Anjelina _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5445 (20100912) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5447 (20100913) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5447 (20100913) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 15:20:07 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:20:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: <95EB006231E1404DA59E6EB37BDA7EEE@Cptr233> References: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> <95EB006231E1404DA59E6EB37BDA7EEE@Cptr233> Message-ID: Was this call recorded? I completely forgot it in the rush up to our state convention. If it was recorded, could someone point me to the link for the recording or send it to me? Thanks! Yours, Jewel, who is a NTS at 25 On 9/13/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Angie, > > I am enrolled in a community college, but I do know its different for > universities. At my community college, most of the students in my classes > are older, my age. And no I am not attending at night. When I found this > out, it was very nice to know I am not the only one doing this at an older > age. Wow did I make myself sound old or what. I am not for the record, might > feel like it, to all you YoungIns LOL > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anjelina > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call > > I just wanted to thank the committee for holding the conference call this > evening for nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it > comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. > It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was wondering for any > other nontrads, did you notice any differences in joining social activities? > Were you accepted even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably > worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things will be fine. > > Thanks > Anjelina > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5445 (20100912) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5447 (20100913) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5447 (20100913) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Tue Sep 14 17:20:04 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:20:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: References: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> <95EB006231E1404DA59E6EB37BDA7EEE@Cptr233> Message-ID: No, I don't think the call was recorded. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From jkenn337 at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 19:28:21 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 15:28:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] nvda 2010.2 beta is out Message-ID: <01DD667D-F19F-4302-AE2C-35FC694A5D66@gmail.com> Hi I wanted to let you all know the beta of nvda 2010.2 is now out. its review cursor acts a lot more like the jaws cursor now and there's lots of other changes and enhancements. Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 16:12:33 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:12:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard Message-ID: <12842F1C5AA748D7A31BD78D44F2826B@Rufus> Now here's a project I'm very excited to see the NFB financially support. http://braillewizard.org/ Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Wed Sep 15 16:27:34 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:27:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard References: <12842F1C5AA748D7A31BD78D44F2826B@Rufus> Message-ID: <000501cb54f2$e72ee4a0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Joe and everyone, I wonder if this is the Braille PDA Deanne Blazie is developing. He mentioned it during his presentation during this year's national convention. He also said that he was seeking a partner to help develop and market the device. I would hope that they will offer a 40-cell version in the future. I can't wait to see this thing at next year's national convention. Peter Donahue who is enjoying life in the Acacia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard Now here's a project I'm very excited to see the NFB financially support. http://braillewizard.org/ Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 16:35:16 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 09:35:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard In-Reply-To: <12842F1C5AA748D7A31BD78D44F2826B@Rufus> References: <12842F1C5AA748D7A31BD78D44F2826B@Rufus> Message-ID: I don't know. why would theyuse an os that is not accessible. I mean look what happened the droid. YOU need sighted assistance to start the screenereader? No! On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:12, "Joe Orozco" wrote: > Now here's a project I'm very excited to see the NFB financially support. > > http://braillewizard.org/ > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Wed Sep 15 17:27:19 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:27:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard References: <12842F1C5AA748D7A31BD78D44F2826B@Rufus> <000501cb54f2$e72ee4a0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <0060C9A7563F4D4B9AF4AF3D240EF995@D3DTZP41> Hello list: The Braille Wizard is indeed the PDA Deane Blazie is working on. He is looking for more involvement. The site has more details. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard > Hello Joe and everyone, > > I wonder if this is the Braille PDA Deanne Blazie is developing. He > mentioned it during his presentation during this year's national > convention. > He also said that he was seeking a partner to help develop and market the > device. I would hope that they will offer a 40-cell version in the future. > I > can't wait to see this thing at next year's national convention. > > Peter Donahue who is enjoying life in the Acacia > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:12 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard > > > Now here's a project I'm very excited to see the NFB financially support. > > http://braillewizard.org/ > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 18:02:19 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:02:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! Message-ID: I wanted to let you know that I got my deploma, transcript and a certificate recognizing me for perfict attendence! That was a total surprise! Rania, From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 18:24:48 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:24:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One serious guys such as me would never be so inclined to express happiness in such a public venue, but, what the hell. Congratulations! That's gr'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'reat news! Hahaha, seriously, congratulations. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:02 PM To: AdultROP at yahoogroups.com; BLMT at yahoogroups.com; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; njabs-talk at nfbnet.org; ROP-support at yahoogroups.com; RPGalPalsandFriends at yahoogroups.com; SkypeFamily at yahoogroups.com; UHOV at yahoogroups.com; livingwithrp at googlegroups.com Subject: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! I wanted to let you know that I got my deploma, transcript and a certificate recognizing me for perfict attendence! That was a total surprise! Rania, _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From mcikeyc at aol.com Wed Sep 15 18:33:29 2010 From: mcikeyc at aol.com (Michelle Clark) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:33:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201009151834.o8FIYE64020021@imr-db03.mx.aol.com> You go girl! I am so proud. Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Rania Ismail [mailto:raniaismail04 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:02 PM To: AdultROP at yahoogroups.com; BLMT at yahoogroups.com; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; njabs-talk at nfbnet.org; ROP-support at yahoogroups.com; RPGalPalsandFriends at yahoogroups.com; SkypeFamily at yahoogroups.com; UHOV at yahoogroups.com; livingwithrp at googlegroups.com Subject: I'm so happy! I wanted to let you know that I got my deploma, transcript and a certificate recognizing me for perfict attendence! That was a total surprise! Rania, From steve.jacobson at visi.com Wed Sep 15 18:37:05 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:37:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sarah, There are at least two reasons not to be overly concerned about the use of Android for this purpose. First, when a specialized device like this is developed, it deals with accessibility within the software on the device itself. For example, even though Windows is accessible, Kurzweil 1000 contains its own accessibility in that you don't need a screen reader to use it. This is a little different than the situation that we have with mobil phones where we use a screen reader like Mobile Speak but depend upon the applications to be accessible. The second reason is that there is pretty good indications that Android will be at least more accessible in a year than it is now. There are different schools of thought on all this, but some would say that building a product on an operating system that is accessible but problematic is going to be more unstable than handling the accessibility within the specialized software. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches, but I believe it is fair to say that Android not being that accessible right now won't impact the Braille Wizzard in the long run. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 09:35:16 -0700, Sarah Alawami wrote: >I don't know. why would theyuse an os that is not accessible. I mean look what happened the droid. YOU need sighted assistance to start the screenereader? No! >On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:12, "Joe Orozco" wrote: >> Now here's a project I'm very excited to see the NFB financially support. >> >> http://braillewizard.org/ >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Wed Sep 15 19:08:20 2010 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:08:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard References: <12842F1C5AA748D7A31BD78D44F2826B@Rufus><000501cb54f2$e72ee4a0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <0060C9A7563F4D4B9AF4AF3D240EF995@D3DTZP41> Message-ID: <001701cb5509$5cfde1c0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Robert and everyone, For Sarah's benefit Deane is no stranger to the access technology field. He along with Dr. Tim Cranmer developed the Braille-N Speak the ancestor of many of the notetaking devices now used by the blind. Deane is well aware of the accessibility issues concerning the Droid OS and will address them. Its good to have Deane and perhaps the rest of the Blazie family once again involved in pioneering new access technology for the blind. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard Hello list: The Braille Wizard is indeed the PDA Deane Blazie is working on. He is looking for more involvement. The site has more details. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard > Hello Joe and everyone, > > I wonder if this is the Braille PDA Deanne Blazie is developing. He > mentioned it during his presentation during this year's national > convention. > He also said that he was seeking a partner to help develop and market the > device. I would hope that they will offer a 40-cell version in the future. > I > can't wait to see this thing at next year's national convention. > > Peter Donahue who is enjoying life in the Acacia > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:12 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Wizard > > > Now here's a project I'm very excited to see the NFB financially support. > > http://braillewizard.org/ > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 19:42:31 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:42:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! Message-ID: <4c9121ac.cf7d0e0a.4ef1.ffff8f7f@mx.google.com> Nice job, Rania. I am completely surprised too. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Rania Ismail Message-ID: Congrads Rania! Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! > Nice job, Rania. I am completely surprised too. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rania Ismail To: AdultROP at yahoogroups.com, BLMT at yahoogroups.com, nabs-l at nfbnet.org, > njabs-talk at nfbnet.org, ROP-support at yahoogroups.com, > RPGalPalsandFriends at yahoogroups.com, SkypeFamily at yahoogroups.com, > UHOV at yahoogroups.com, livingwithrp at googlegroups.com > Date sent: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:02:19 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] I'm so happy! > > I wanted to let you know that I got my deploma, transcript and a > certificate recognizing me for perfict attendence! > That was a total surprise! > Rania, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From amylsabo at comcast.net Thu Sep 16 02:26:00 2010 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 02:26:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call In-Reply-To: <6E6A1AFEE7764CE6BA11F0DA15CFF1D1@D9P3ZND1> Message-ID: <1413262177.672447.1284603960241.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello all, i too am also a nontraditional student and i have since when i lived in michigan. i was able to fit in well with people but, i had some difficulty with some students but, not really with joining clubs and all. thanks for the information and, i will talk to you all soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Anjelina To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 04:56:58 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Nontraditional student call I just wanted to thank the committee for holding the conference call this evening for nontraditional students. I'm not the most confident when it comes to conference calls and was nervous to ask questions. It's been a few years since I've been on campus and was wondering for any other nontrads, did you notice any differences in joining social activities? Were you accepted even if you were in the minority age wise? I'm probably worrying for nothing and once the semester gets going things will be fine. Thanks Anjelina _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 16 03:06:30 2010 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 20:06:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [real-eyes] about the wizard Message-ID: <951E075C52374692993D053D85E1E3FA@windows4c0ed96> Hello Nabs list, I got this from another list and was intrigued. I have bought a lot of books and downloads from NBP, and encouraged to think such a reputable non profit is involved in producing this device. Just a bit more detail here. Best, Ginnie -----Original Message----- From: real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org [mailto:real-eyes-bounce at freelists.org] 5:31 AM To: real-eyes at freelists.org Subject: [real-eyes] something new to be on the lookout for Introducing the Wizard The Wizard is a braille Personal Digital Assistant, PDA, designed specifically for blind people. Most of us use PDA's in our personal lives and know them as smart phones, iPad's, laptop computers, and even desktop computers. The Wizard is a similar device that is tailored for blind people. Instead of a screen, the Wizard features a 20-character braille display with synthetic speech output and a standard braille keyboard for data entry. Packaged to keep it small and portable, the Wizard is about half the size of a sheet of paper and less than one inch thick, so users can take it everywhere they would take a cell phone. Why Create Another Braille PDA for Blind People? Braille PDA's for the blind are not a new concept. The technology has been available for almost three decades, but since blindness is a low incidence disability in the U.S,. the size of this market does not encourage the same innovation that drives mainstream technology. As a result, current braille PDA's are expensive-in the $5,000-10,000 range- and often lack the same features as sighted people have come to expect in a PDA. What makes the Wizard different is that it is being produced by a Boston-based non-profit, National Braille Press, that is dedicated to literacy for blind people through braille. NBP is committed to creating a braille PDA that is affordable, with a wide range of features, and uses Android as an open source platform to encourage innovation. Wizard Features and Functions a.. 8 dot braille keyboard with an imbedded cursor pad. b.. 20 cell, 8 dot braille display with cursor routing and forward and back keys. c.. Android Operating system found in many smartphones. d.. 32GB of internal storage, users can plug SD cards into the back of the Wizard to create data backups or to load data from other sources. e.. Bluetooth wireless connectivity for headsets and other hands free devices. f.. WiFi connectivity to access local networks or other WiFi hotspots. g.. Two USB (Universal Serial Bus) ports for users to connect to other computer devices. h.. Accelerometer - the same chip that is used in games is also used to detect the orientation of the Wizard and allows it to adjust when it is tapped or rotated. i.. Speech input and output for users who want to listen instead of read braille, the Wizard has synthetic speech output. It also has speech input so users can perform voice searches, dial by voice, and create voice short cuts. j.. Cellular connection for data and voice, which can be used as a cell phone and smart phone for email, web browsing, and smart applications. k.. Built-in speakers and microphone for users with a cell phone carrier contract to make and receive phone calls. l.. Headphone/headset jack, a standard jack where users can plug in their favorite headphones. m.. GPS receiver to identify locations, and with the help of smart applications, to provide navigation information. Android-based navigation applications for blind users are currently being created by other developers. n.. Compass to help users navigate. o.. Built-in music player. Users can load a music library on the Wizard and listen via speakers or headset. p.. 5Mp camera, for photography and to identify items or surroundings in the user's environment. Applications are available that can photograph and read a printed page. q.. Video output connector: for users who need a visual display. National Braille Press is currently in the first year of product development and making significant progress. A working prototype of the Wizard is expected to be completed by 2011 and the device will be available to the public soon after that. Since Android is a working, usable operating system, we expect to continually upgrade and expand the features of the Wizard. Applications for the Wizard will be created by third party developers so there is unlimited possibility for the product to evolve based on the user's needs. About National Braille Press The Wizard is a project of the Center for Braille Innovation (CBI) (insert link) at National Braille Press (www.nbp.org), which began in the winter of 2009. In an effort to increase brwaille literacy, the Wizard was conceived as the first CBI project, one of many projects that NBP's Center plans to initiate to make accessible technology products for blind people so that they can stay connected in the digital world. NBP is taking a leadership role to research, develop and produce specific affordable accessible technology products that will help promote braille literacy for young readers, and support blind students and adults in school and in the workplace environment. While paper braille will not disappear in the immediate future, NBP believes that it is equally important for blind people to have accessible technology to access information that the digital age provides Worldwide Collaborations Since the launch of National Braille Press's Center for Braille Innovation, NBP has been joined by the National Federation of the Blind, The China Braille Press, the World Braille Foundation and the American Printing House for the Blind to partner in various affordable technology projects for blind people. The Wizard project is being funded by the National Braille Press, federal appropriations, the National Federation of the Blind, and the China Braille Press. As non-profit organizations, these groups are committed to ensuring that blind people have access to technology at affordable prices. If you would like to donate to this project, please go to (www.nbp.org) to learn more. ![]() Loading... Powered by Redmine C 2006-2010 Jean-Philippe Lang Regards, Cory Jackson Escalations Specialist Freedom Scientific Inc. Phone: 727-803-8600 Address: 11800 31st Ct. N. St. Petersburg, FL 33716-1805 Email: Support at freedomscientific.com Visit our Web Site! http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/index.cfm To subscribe or to leave the list, or to set other subscription options, go to www.freelists.org/list/real-eyes From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 04:43:22 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 00:43:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] apologies to the nabs list Message-ID: Hi There! I want to apologize for being unable to stream the conference calls that took place Sunday night. Unfortunately, both my computers crashed at the same time, and in both cases, Windows had to be reinstalled. Again, I apologize for this. I'm happy to say that I'm back on line. >From David From minesm at me.com Thu Sep 16 17:21:09 2010 From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:21:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for an e-mail for Amber Rhea Cook? Message-ID: <849D9131-6297-46B5-BEB2-CC1A4D2AFC0D@me.com> Hello, I am looking for an e-mail or Anne-Marie Cook. I have a question about where recording for the blind and dyslexic's efforts are at it relates to using a Mac with our BMD. Does anyone have any good suggestions? Better yet if Anne Marie reads this list, could you please write me off list and we will hopefully have a discussion about all of this? Thank you very much in advance for any help from someone could offer. Maurice Mines minesm at me.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 16 17:35:37 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:35:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for an e-mail for Amber Rhea Cook? References: <849D9131-6297-46B5-BEB2-CC1A4D2AFC0D@me.com> Message-ID: She no longer works for RFB but may be able to help. For faster results, why not call rfb and ask your question to headquarters. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Mines" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:21 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for an e-mail for Amber Rhea Cook? > Hello, I am looking for an e-mail or Anne-Marie Cook. I have a question > about where recording for the blind and dyslexic's efforts are at it > relates to using a Mac with our BMD. Does anyone have any good > suggestions? Better yet if Anne Marie reads this list, could you please > write me off list and we will hopefully have a discussion about all of > this? Thank you very much in advance for any help from someone could > offer. > Maurice Mines > minesm at me.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From mikaelastevens at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 18:16:39 2010 From: mikaelastevens at gmail.com (Mikaela Stevens) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:16:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Math textbook Message-ID: Hello everyone, I am taking a real world math class for my associates program. I have the book on a CD in PDF format. So far doing my homework is proving to be very difficult as I have to scroll up and down to hear the problems and then go back to find definitions or examples. I'm thinking it would be so much easier if I had the book in hard copy Braille. Does anyone happen to have the textbook entitled "Using and Understanding Mathematics"? It is the 4th edition by Jeffrey Bennett and William Briggs. If you have this book or any suggestions for me to complete this class, please contact me off list: mikaelastevens at gmail.com. Thank you so much! Have a wonderful day. -- Mikaela Stevens BYU-Idaho Student 208-585-8468 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 21:05:25 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:05:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math textbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried Bookshare, which provides books in text or digital braille, but I didn't see that book, but know that's an option in the future if you have a refreshable Braille display. Another option is to find someone with an embosser willing to print up the hardcopy Braille for you. Personally, if I already had my embosser, I'd tell you send me the text files and I'll emboss it and send it to you. It's not like I have to stand there and watch the Brailler every moment it's working...I could let it do its work while I go about my day. Unfortuantely, I don't yet have my embosser. It should be here by the end of the month. See if someone you know has an embosser and is wililng to make the hard copy for you. If nothing else, when I get my embosser and figure out how to use it properly, I could do it for you. I just gotta get paper for it. You could also pay someone to do it, but why do that if you can find someone to do it as a favour? Hope that helps...wish I had better answers for you. I agree that a math book is *mush* easier to understand in hardcopy Braille. You could also Braille the problem on a piece of paper to look back at as you're working. I have done this with a Janos slate. One index card had the problem in the original form and each important step (not the multiplication to find the right number of basic subtraction, but movement of letters, changing of signs, etc). On another index card, I would work out the problem in Nemeth, checking the original card to make sure I have numbers right. It's a little tedious, but it really drills that problem in your head. Oh, another option is to do the work on an abacus. Set the problem on the abacus and write down each step you work, then write down the final answer and clear the abacus for the next problem. I love my Krammer abacus for simple problems! My thoughts... On 9/16/10, Mikaela Stevens wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I am taking a real world math class for my associates program. I have the > book on a CD in PDF format. So far doing my homework is proving to be very > difficult as I have to scroll up and down to hear the problems and then go > back to find definitions or examples. I'm thinking it would be so much > easier if I had the book in hard copy Braille. Does anyone happen to have > the textbook entitled "Using and Understanding Mathematics"? It is the 4th > edition by Jeffrey Bennett and William Briggs. > > If you have this book or any suggestions for me to complete this class, > please contact me off list: mikaelastevens at gmail.com. > > Thank you so much! Have a wonderful day. > > -- > Mikaela Stevens > BYU-Idaho Student > 208-585-8468 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 16 23:02:01 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 19:02:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for an e-mail for Amber Rhea Cook? References: <849D9131-6297-46B5-BEB2-CC1A4D2AFC0D@me.com> Message-ID: <8024B1A1C7684E9CBFDACC0809DF24B3@Serene> Actually, contacting Anne-Marie is much faster than calling RFB and D ... You don't have to wait on hold! Her email is Anne-Marie.cook at dhs.state.nj.us I'm not sure if the - is actually in the email address or not. Yes, she does also read this list. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for an e-mail for Amber Rhea Cook? > She no longer works for RFB but may be able to help. For faster results, > why not call rfb and ask your question to headquarters. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice Mines" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:21 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for an e-mail for Amber Rhea Cook? > > >> Hello, I am looking for an e-mail or Anne-Marie Cook. I have a question >> about where recording for the blind and dyslexic's efforts are at it >> relates to using a Mac with our BMD. Does anyone have any good >> suggestions? Better yet if Anne Marie reads this list, could you please >> write me off list and we will hopefully have a discussion about all of >> this? Thank you very much in advance for any help from someone could >> offer. >> Maurice Mines >> minesm at me.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jp100 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 17 17:13:13 2010 From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:13:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? Message-ID: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Hello everyone, I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and fit in with the regular crowd. I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the reason for my way of being deals with blindness. "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and had only been playing a few weeks." I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for me than to play music with my two best friends. So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look foolish or stand out in the wrong way. The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go further and see what happens. Jim From mcikeyc at aol.com Fri Sep 17 17:52:45 2010 From: mcikeyc at aol.com (Michelle Clark) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:52:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math Textbook Message-ID: <201009171752.o8HHqmB9005724@imr-da06.mx.aol.com> Are you near an Adaptive Technology Department of the local library in your area? If there is one near you, there may be a possibility that they can help you. Does the school where you attend have an embosser? Investigate if they can arrange that. Hope this works. Indeed, I know the feeling. Michelle From hope.paulos at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 18:18:38 2010 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 14:18:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: These are interesting questions. I'm a musician as well, and have been told the same things. People say that I need to have a more positive facial expression. Since I've been totally blind since birth, facial expressions are confusing to me. I don't know if I'm looking positive or negative even though I'm enjoying playing bass in the band very much. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Good topic, Jim. Hope and guide dog, Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: "Jim" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the > Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I > think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear > from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. > This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when > I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't > the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing > mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being > "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an > intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. > Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked > about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the > smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive > to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects > of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love > for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a > person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." > How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing > and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or > Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these > "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me > to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other > things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to > folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I > now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 18:43:17 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:43:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: Very interesting topic. I am also a musician. Dancing is very hard to me because although I can see a little bit, I cannot see well enough to understand how people are moving. This actually brings up something kind of funny. I am taking an opera studio class. We learn scenes from an opera and perform in this class. Well, part of this class is acting, which I really enjoy, but the other day our director had us playing this mirroring game. You would pare with a partner and mirror there facial expressions and body language, and then they would mirror yours in turn. Obviously, I had a problem with this activity. My director tried to make it work. She had me feel my partner's face to figure out the facial expressions. Thankfully, the girl I was working with and I are friends, otherwise, that would have been really awkward. It also did not help to feel her face. It helped more when she was describing to me what she was doing. Facial expressions are not particularly easy for me, but I find good descriptions helpful. They have to be good though, or they won't make sense. I honestly think that part of the movement thing is because we can't see others moving, but that doesn't mean we can't learn. I'm sure there are really awesome dancers who are blind. The blindness may make copying movements more difficult, but that shouldn't stop us from trying. My vocal coach and I are working on getting my movements to look more natural on stage, because like Jim, I am quite statuous. Are there any blind dancers out there? This is a question I have always wondered. I like this topic. On 9/17/10, Hope Paulos wrote: > These are interesting questions. I'm a musician as well, and have been told > the same things. People say that I need to have a more positive facial > expression. Since I've been totally blind since birth, facial expressions > are confusing to me. I don't know if I'm looking positive or negative even > though I'm enjoying playing bass in the band very much. Any help would be > greatly appreciated. > Good topic, > Jim. > Hope and guide dog, Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: "Jim" > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? > > >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the >> Blindtalk >> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I >> think >> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive >> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear >> from >> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been >> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to >> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in >> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. >> This >> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >> >> >> >> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom >> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to >> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. >> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In >> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when >> I'm >> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other >> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't >> the >> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing >> mischief >> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really >> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was >> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and >> fit in with the regular crowd. >> >> >> >> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I >> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by >> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You >> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we >> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not >> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being >> "statuesque." >> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the >> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >> >> >> >> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an >> intriguing >> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a >> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. >> Besides >> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass >> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and >> had only been playing a few weeks." >> >> >> >> >> >> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked >> about >> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the >> smile. >> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end >> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive >> to >> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects >> of >> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love >> for >> me than to play music with my two best friends. >> >> >> >> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a >> person's >> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do >> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking >> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I >> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." >> How >> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural >> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing >> and >> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or >> Stevie >> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be >> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these >> "free >> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, >> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the >> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me >> to >> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >> >> >> >> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other >> things >> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to >> folks. >> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >> >> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I >> now >> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. >> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula >> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >> >> >> >> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go >> further and see what happens. >> >> >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5458 (20100917) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From pyyhkala at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 19:39:11 2010 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:39:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sendero Group Releases LookAround GPS Application For iPhone Message-ID: Hi, Just in case you didn't see it yet on Twitter, the Sendero GPS LookAround application is live in the app store for $3.99. I tested the app, and its very similar to I-Map-U. Though it does intigrate compass directions, and has a shake feature to refresh the GPS data. You can also read more about the app on the web at http://senderogroup.com/iphone Best, Mika Pyyhkala http://twitter.com/pyyhkala From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 19:55:46 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:55:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <13EB8B8F3EC4415A875AF223FC930D00@D9P3ZND1> Jim, this is an interesting topic and I've had many of the same questions. As a child and into my teens I took tap and ballet and worked one-on-one with a dance instructor who let me feel her body movements. For me it's being a bit self-conscious; I don't like free dance because I worry how I might look since comments I've received were honest observations, but I now second guess myself. I've heard yoga is a great way to feel the differences between true relaxation and rigidity. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? > Very interesting topic. I am also a musician. Dancing is very hard > to me because although I can see a little bit, I cannot see well > enough to understand how people are moving. > > This actually brings up something kind of funny. I am taking an opera > studio class. We learn scenes from an opera and perform in this > class. Well, part of this class is acting, which I really enjoy, but > the other day our director had us playing this mirroring game. You > would pare with a partner and mirror there facial expressions and body > language, and then they would mirror yours in turn. Obviously, I had > a problem with this activity. My director tried to make it work. She > had me feel my partner's face to figure out the facial expressions. > Thankfully, the girl I was working with and I are friends, otherwise, > that would have been really awkward. It also did not help to feel her > face. It helped more when she was describing to me what she was > doing. > > Facial expressions are not particularly easy for me, but I find good > descriptions helpful. They have to be good though, or they won't make > sense. > I honestly think that part of the movement thing is because we can't > see others moving, but that doesn't mean we can't learn. I'm sure > there are really awesome dancers who are blind. The blindness may > make copying movements more difficult, but that shouldn't stop us from > trying. My vocal coach and I are working on getting my movements to > look more natural on stage, because like Jim, I am quite statuous. > Are there any blind dancers out there? This is a question I have > always wondered. I like this topic. > > On 9/17/10, Hope Paulos wrote: >> These are interesting questions. I'm a musician as well, and have been >> told >> the same things. People say that I need to have a more positive facial >> expression. Since I've been totally blind since birth, facial expressions >> are confusing to me. I don't know if I'm looking positive or negative >> even >> though I'm enjoying playing bass in the band very much. Any help would >> be >> greatly appreciated. >> Good topic, >> Jim. >> Hope and guide dog, Beignet >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim" >> To: "Jim" >> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? >> >> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> >>> >>> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the >>> Blindtalk >>> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I >>> think >>> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please >>> forgive >>> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear >>> from >>> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been >>> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning >>> to >>> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >>> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in >>> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. >>> This >>> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >>> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my >>> mom >>> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me >>> to >>> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >>> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other >>> things. >>> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >>> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. >>> In >>> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when >>> I'm >>> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >>> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at >>> other >>> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't >>> the >>> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing >>> mischief >>> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever >>> really >>> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >>> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I >>> was >>> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good >>> and >>> fit in with the regular crowd. >>> >>> >>> >>> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. >>> I >>> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either >>> by >>> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, >>> "You >>> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how >>> we >>> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not >>> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being >>> "statuesque." >>> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that >>> the >>> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an >>> intriguing >>> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a >>> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. >>> Besides >>> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass >>> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind >>> and >>> had only been playing a few weeks." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked >>> about >>> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the >>> smile. >>> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I >>> end >>> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are >>> attractive >>> to >>> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects >>> of >>> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love >>> for >>> me than to play music with my two best friends. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a >>> person's >>> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How >>> do >>> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without >>> looking >>> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, >>> I >>> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." >>> How >>> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from >>> natural >>> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing >>> and >>> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or >>> Stevie >>> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly >>> be >>> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >>> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these >>> "free >>> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >>> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my >>> case, >>> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through >>> the >>> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me >>> to >>> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >>> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >>> >>> >>> >>> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other >>> things >>> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >>> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to >>> folks. >>> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >>> >>> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I >>> now >>> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or >>> moving. >>> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >>> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a >>> formula >>> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >>> >>> >>> >>> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to >>> go >>> further and see what happens. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5458 (20100917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 20:05:11 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:05:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: Hey all, This is a wonderful topic. I am a classical singer, and have had the good fortune to have an honest and helpful voice professor the last two years. I have also taken performance techniques for singers, and am currently taking movement improv. So any of you in college, look at your dance class offerings! So this is not just a blind problem. Promise. How many singers get so involved in their technique, breathing, etc, that they show no expression their face, except one of severe concentration. Instrumentalists are worse! I can't tell you how many times we comment on how those violisnists slouched onto stage, stared at their sheet music, bowed awkwardly and slouched off. So, this is a performers issue, which might be slighten complicated by our blindness. I have been blind since four, yeah, it's not since birth but it's pretty close. let me start with facial expressions. And I have said this before on this list. Facial expressions are inate, and universal. Just because you are blind does not mean you have no expressions. you do, you just don't see them. So as a performer you need to become aware of them. I suggest the following. 1. In the morning, when you are getting dressed, wake up your face muscles. In acting we call this facial flow. This simply means to move all of your face at once in as many ways as possible. Open your mouth, move it from side to side, raise those brows, lift and lower those cheeks. Move your face! I wouldn't recommend doing this in public unless there's a roomful of people doing the same thing. 2. Sit down with a friend, and a few emotion index cards. Or just have your friend give you different emotions. And then try to really feel that emotion. Think of anger, think of happiness, disgust, surprise, astonishment. It'll come to your face and then when it's there have that friend say, intensify. If you can't, start over and have them tell you what you are doing. Are you raising your brows, do you have a frown, are your lips pursed. Etc. And then practice intensifying. On stage, we have to exaggerate everything. If it feels big, it's probably just acceptable, you can do with more. 3. Combine that with your performance. Practice and practice and practice. If you are a singer, think of each line and the emotions. Break the song into emotional sections. And then practice it. And make it big. Have someone give you feedback. 4. Now this varies from person to person, but if you have control over your eyes, look up. Always look up. If you don't, keep them open if you can, and raise the eyebrows. This will help the audience keep their focus on you. Eye contact is important on stage, but we obviously can't do it. So by looking up, it looks like you are. If you can only raise the eyebrows, that still opens up your face and brightens everything. From what I hear it makes all the difference in the world. 5. Movement is extremely interesting. In techniques we had gesture cue cards. Which I could potentially post that list if anyone is interested. If not, have that creative friend shout out things. Hand to chest, hand to shoulder. After you get used to this, add purpose. Put your hand to your chest while looking astonished. Bow your head while looking disappointed. Make it big! Stage is far from the audience. Make it big!! It will feel crazy but it feels that way to everyone. If you are truly erious about this, have someone from the theatre department help you and give you feedback. But for the most part other performers that go on gigs with you are more than sufficient. Just emphasize the importance of honesty. Don't worry about gestures until you have facial expressions down though. I promise if you practice, and make it part of the music as opposed to an act, it won't look mechanical. Think of how those folk songs make you feel. Are you singing about a broken heart? Look sad man. Put that pain in your face. Think of that whiskey you are drinking to numb the pain. Are you singing about the waltzing maltilda. Um, i'm not sure how that makes me feel actually. Smile. But seriously, play around, and practice. Make it fun. Before you know it, you'll get onstage and it'll all come naturally. And you'll love that performance even more. After my technique class, and pretty much doing all kinds of crazy things for two months, I had a mini-recital, and everyone was like, wow your face was so expressive. We knew what you felt. So I promise it happens. It's a lot of hard work, but it's not impossible. Hope this help a little bit. Mary On 9/17/10, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Very interesting topic. I am also a musician. Dancing is very hard > to me because although I can see a little bit, I cannot see well > enough to understand how people are moving. > > This actually brings up something kind of funny. I am taking an opera > studio class. We learn scenes from an opera and perform in this > class. Well, part of this class is acting, which I really enjoy, but > the other day our director had us playing this mirroring game. You > would pare with a partner and mirror there facial expressions and body > language, and then they would mirror yours in turn. Obviously, I had > a problem with this activity. My director tried to make it work. She > had me feel my partner's face to figure out the facial expressions. > Thankfully, the girl I was working with and I are friends, otherwise, > that would have been really awkward. It also did not help to feel her > face. It helped more when she was describing to me what she was > doing. > > Facial expressions are not particularly easy for me, but I find good > descriptions helpful. They have to be good though, or they won't make > sense. > I honestly think that part of the movement thing is because we can't > see others moving, but that doesn't mean we can't learn. I'm sure > there are really awesome dancers who are blind. The blindness may > make copying movements more difficult, but that shouldn't stop us from > trying. My vocal coach and I are working on getting my movements to > look more natural on stage, because like Jim, I am quite statuous. > Are there any blind dancers out there? This is a question I have > always wondered. I like this topic. > > On 9/17/10, Hope Paulos wrote: >> These are interesting questions. I'm a musician as well, and have been >> told >> the same things. People say that I need to have a more positive facial >> expression. Since I've been totally blind since birth, facial expressions >> are confusing to me. I don't know if I'm looking positive or negative even >> though I'm enjoying playing bass in the band very much. Any help would be >> greatly appreciated. >> Good topic, >> Jim. >> Hope and guide dog, Beignet >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim" >> To: "Jim" >> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? >> >> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> >>> >>> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the >>> Blindtalk >>> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I >>> think >>> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please >>> forgive >>> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear >>> from >>> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been >>> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning >>> to >>> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >>> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in >>> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. >>> This >>> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >>> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom >>> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to >>> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >>> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. >>> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >>> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. >>> In >>> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when >>> I'm >>> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >>> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other >>> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't >>> the >>> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing >>> mischief >>> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really >>> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >>> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I >>> was >>> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and >>> fit in with the regular crowd. >>> >>> >>> >>> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I >>> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either >>> by >>> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, >>> "You >>> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how >>> we >>> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not >>> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being >>> "statuesque." >>> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the >>> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an >>> intriguing >>> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a >>> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. >>> Besides >>> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass >>> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and >>> had only been playing a few weeks." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked >>> about >>> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the >>> smile. >>> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I >>> end >>> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive >>> to >>> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects >>> of >>> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love >>> for >>> me than to play music with my two best friends. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a >>> person's >>> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How >>> do >>> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without >>> looking >>> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, >>> I >>> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." >>> How >>> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural >>> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing >>> and >>> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or >>> Stevie >>> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly >>> be >>> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >>> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these >>> "free >>> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >>> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, >>> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the >>> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me >>> to >>> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >>> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >>> >>> >>> >>> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other >>> things >>> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >>> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to >>> folks. >>> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >>> >>> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I >>> now >>> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or >>> moving. >>> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >>> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula >>> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >>> >>> >>> >>> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to >>> go >>> further and see what happens. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5458 (20100917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 20:07:35 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:07:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: And for dancing. Explain the braille cell to your teacher. While this won't solve everything, it will help with at least feet movement. Feeling is the best way. And after a while you'll let yoursel be lead. Ok, I'm really shutting up now! Mary On 9/17/10, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hey all, > This is a wonderful topic. I am a classical singer, and have had the > good fortune to have an honest and helpful voice professor the last > two years. I have also taken performance techniques for singers, and > am currently taking movement improv. So any of you in college, look at > your dance class offerings! > So this is not just a blind problem. Promise. How many singers get so > involved in their technique, breathing, etc, that they show no > expression their face, except one of severe concentration. > Instrumentalists are worse! I can't tell you how many times we > comment on how those violisnists slouched onto stage, stared at their > sheet music, bowed awkwardly and slouched off. So, this is a > performers issue, which might be slighten complicated by our > blindness. > I have been blind since four, yeah, it's not since birth but it's pretty > close. > let me start with facial expressions. And I have said this before on > this list. Facial expressions are inate, and universal. Just because > you are blind does not mean you have no expressions. you do, you just > don't see them. So as a performer you need to become aware of them. I > suggest the following. > 1. In the morning, when you are getting dressed, wake up your face > muscles. In acting we call this facial flow. This simply means to move > all of your face at once in as many ways as possible. Open your mouth, > move it from side to side, raise those brows, lift and lower those > cheeks. Move your face! I wouldn't recommend doing this in public > unless there's a roomful of people doing the same thing. > 2. Sit down with a friend, and a few emotion index cards. Or just have > your friend give you different emotions. And then try to really feel > that emotion. Think of anger, think of happiness, disgust, surprise, > astonishment. It'll come to your face and then when it's there have > that friend say, intensify. If you can't, start over and have them > tell you what you are doing. Are you raising your brows, do you have a > frown, are your lips pursed. Etc. And then practice intensifying. On > stage, we have to exaggerate everything. If it feels big, it's > probably just acceptable, you can do with more. > 3. Combine that with your performance. Practice and practice and > practice. If you are a singer, think of each line and the emotions. > Break the song into emotional sections. And then practice it. And make > it big. Have someone give you feedback. > 4. Now this varies from person to person, but if you have control over > your eyes, look up. Always look up. If you don't, keep them open if > you can, and raise the eyebrows. This will help the audience keep > their focus on you. Eye contact is important on stage, but we > obviously can't do it. So by looking up, it looks like you are. If you > can only raise the eyebrows, that still opens up your face and > brightens everything. From what I hear it makes all the difference in > the world. > 5. Movement is extremely interesting. In techniques we had gesture cue > cards. Which I could potentially post that list if anyone is > interested. If not, have that creative friend shout out things. Hand > to chest, hand to shoulder. After you get used to this, add purpose. > Put your hand to your chest while looking astonished. Bow your head > while looking disappointed. Make it big! Stage is far from the > audience. Make it big!! It will feel crazy but it feels that way to > everyone. If you are truly erious about this, have someone from the > theatre department help you and give you feedback. But for the most > part other performers that go on gigs with you are more than > sufficient. Just emphasize the importance of honesty. Don't worry > about gestures until you have facial expressions down though. I > promise if you practice, and make it part of the music as opposed to > an act, it won't look mechanical. Think of how those folk songs make > you feel. Are you singing about a broken heart? Look sad man. Put that > pain in your face. Think of that whiskey you are drinking to numb the > pain. Are you singing about the waltzing maltilda. Um, i'm not sure > how that makes me feel actually. Smile. > But seriously, play around, and practice. Make it fun. Before you know > it, you'll get onstage and it'll all come naturally. And you'll love > that performance even more. After my technique class, and pretty much > doing all kinds of crazy things for two months, I had a mini-recital, > and everyone was like, wow your face was so expressive. We knew what > you felt. So I promise it happens. It's a lot of hard work, but it's > not impossible. > Hope this help a little bit. > Mary > > > On 9/17/10, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Very interesting topic. I am also a musician. Dancing is very hard >> to me because although I can see a little bit, I cannot see well >> enough to understand how people are moving. >> >> This actually brings up something kind of funny. I am taking an opera >> studio class. We learn scenes from an opera and perform in this >> class. Well, part of this class is acting, which I really enjoy, but >> the other day our director had us playing this mirroring game. You >> would pare with a partner and mirror there facial expressions and body >> language, and then they would mirror yours in turn. Obviously, I had >> a problem with this activity. My director tried to make it work. She >> had me feel my partner's face to figure out the facial expressions. >> Thankfully, the girl I was working with and I are friends, otherwise, >> that would have been really awkward. It also did not help to feel her >> face. It helped more when she was describing to me what she was >> doing. >> >> Facial expressions are not particularly easy for me, but I find good >> descriptions helpful. They have to be good though, or they won't make >> sense. >> I honestly think that part of the movement thing is because we can't >> see others moving, but that doesn't mean we can't learn. I'm sure >> there are really awesome dancers who are blind. The blindness may >> make copying movements more difficult, but that shouldn't stop us from >> trying. My vocal coach and I are working on getting my movements to >> look more natural on stage, because like Jim, I am quite statuous. >> Are there any blind dancers out there? This is a question I have >> always wondered. I like this topic. >> >> On 9/17/10, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> These are interesting questions. I'm a musician as well, and have been >>> told >>> the same things. People say that I need to have a more positive facial >>> expression. Since I've been totally blind since birth, facial >>> expressions >>> are confusing to me. I don't know if I'm looking positive or negative >>> even >>> though I'm enjoying playing bass in the band very much. Any help would >>> be >>> greatly appreciated. >>> Good topic, >>> Jim. >>> Hope and guide dog, Beignet >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jim" >>> To: "Jim" >>> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? >>> >>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the >>>> Blindtalk >>>> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I >>>> think >>>> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please >>>> forgive >>>> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear >>>> from >>>> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have >>>> been >>>> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning >>>> to >>>> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >>>> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back >>>> in >>>> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. >>>> This >>>> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >>>> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my >>>> mom >>>> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me >>>> to >>>> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >>>> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other >>>> things. >>>> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >>>> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. >>>> In >>>> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even >>>> when >>>> I'm >>>> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >>>> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at >>>> other >>>> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I >>>> wasn't >>>> the >>>> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing >>>> mischief >>>> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever >>>> really >>>> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >>>> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I >>>> was >>>> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good >>>> and >>>> fit in with the regular crowd. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. >>>> I >>>> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either >>>> by >>>> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, >>>> "You >>>> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how >>>> we >>>> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're >>>> not >>>> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being >>>> "statuesque." >>>> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that >>>> the >>>> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an >>>> intriguing >>>> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it >>>> a >>>> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. >>>> Besides >>>> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a >>>> bluegrass >>>> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind >>>> and >>>> had only been playing a few weeks." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked >>>> about >>>> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the >>>> smile. >>>> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I >>>> end >>>> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are >>>> attractive >>>> to >>>> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual >>>> aspects >>>> of >>>> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater >>>> love >>>> for >>>> me than to play music with my two best friends. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a >>>> person's >>>> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How >>>> do >>>> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without >>>> looking >>>> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a >>>> kid, >>>> I >>>> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." >>>> How >>>> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from >>>> natural >>>> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing >>>> and >>>> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or >>>> Stevie >>>> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly >>>> be >>>> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >>>> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these >>>> "free >>>> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >>>> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my >>>> case, >>>> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through >>>> the >>>> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking >>>> me >>>> to >>>> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >>>> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other >>>> things >>>> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >>>> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to >>>> folks. >>>> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >>>> >>>> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. >>>> I >>>> now >>>> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or >>>> moving. >>>> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >>>> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a >>>> formula >>>> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to >>>> go >>>> further and see what happens. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5458 (20100917) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the > most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of > teachers." > Charles W. Eliot > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 20:49:48 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:49:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math Textbook In-Reply-To: <201009171752.o8HHqmB9005724@imr-da06.mx.aol.com> References: <201009171752.o8HHqmB9005724@imr-da06.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: I've found that, at least with my college, they are very nitpikcy about what Braille they print. They told me straight up that they would not emboss an entire book, even when I told them that Braille was my primary reading method and that I am very bad with audio books when it comes to classes. They told me that they simply can't take the time to emboss an entire Braille book that I'm only ggoing to use for one semester, and said they aren't likely to even emboss parts of the book. They provided the books in digital format, though, which takes as much, if not more, time as embossing does...I thought it was rather odd and that this lack of understanding for the need of Braille was stupid. But that's why DSB got me my own embosser and a refreshable Braille display, so I could read digital Braille and emboss what I needed myself. I can't wait to get my embosser, and I plan on Brailling the parts of the books needed for class so I can bring the hardcopy Braille...at least for Spanish and mathematics classes. On 9/17/10, Michelle Clark wrote: > Are you near an Adaptive Technology Department of the local library in your > area? If there is one near you, there may be a possibility that they can > help you. Does the school where you attend have an embosser? Investigate if > they can arrange that. > > > > Hope this works. Indeed, I know the feeling. > > > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From aadkins7 at verizon.net Fri Sep 17 21:19:01 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:19:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math Textbook In-Reply-To: References: <201009171752.o8HHqmB9005724@imr-da06.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <77FC57334DF74150AB41BAF3D106FB57@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hi Jewel and all, I agree with Jewel on that. I do have an embosser, and I am thankful for it. DRS in Maryland is wonderful and helped me obtain mine. This semester, I got all of my books from the publisher in PDF format, and I copy the file into Duxbury for brailling because Braille is also my prefered method. In addition, I Braille my own handouts. One of my instructors had approached the disability guy here and asked about one of the handouts, and he responded he couldn't do that. I asked for other books to be brailled or even just recorded in digital format, and he also said he didn't have the resources to do that. So, while asking is okay, it isn't likely a Disability Office will do it. While I am mentioning this, keep in mind that some formatting is required for Braille, and so if possible, obtain the book prior to the start of the semester. This did not work out in my own situation. Also, Brailling takes time, and it is difficult to study with a noisy Juliet running. So this is something else to keep in mind. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math Textbook > I've found that, at least with my college, they are very nitpikcy > about what Braille they print. They told me straight up that they > would not emboss an entire book, even when I told them that Braille > was my primary reading method and that I am very bad with audio books > when it comes to classes. They told me that they simply can't take the > time to emboss an entire Braille book that I'm only ggoing to use for > one semester, and said they aren't likely to even emboss parts of the > book. They provided the books in digital format, though, which takes > as much, if not more, time as embossing does...I thought it was rather > odd and that this lack of understanding for the need of Braille was > stupid. But that's why DSB got me my own embosser and a refreshable > Braille display, so I could read digital Braille and emboss what I > needed myself. I can't wait to get my embosser, and I plan on > Brailling the parts of the books needed for class so I can bring the > hardcopy Braille...at least for Spanish and mathematics classes. > > On 9/17/10, Michelle Clark wrote: >> Are you near an Adaptive Technology Department of the local library in >> your >> area? If there is one near you, there may be a possibility that they can >> help you. Does the school where you attend have an embosser? Investigate >> if >> they can arrange that. >> >> >> >> Hope this works. Indeed, I know the feeling. >> >> >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 18 00:50:42 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:50:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? Message-ID: <20100918005042.3959.59233@web2> Jim, I suspect your greatest obstacle has more to do with self-consciousness than anything. On one hand, it sounds like you fear looking like a stereotypical blind person and so you don't move much. On the other, you're afraid of looking like a stereotypically blind mechanical person when you do move. Maybe the issue is that you're afraid of looking like the worst public image of blind, whatever blind is supposed to look like anyway. The truth is that everyone has their way of moving through the world and everyone has their own way of exploring movement. You could try dance if dance interests you. You could also try yoga or tai chi as both of these help people translate their inner movement into outer movement and visa versa. Whatever you do, don't worry so much. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello everyone, > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > Jim > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 18 00:52:20 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:52:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? Message-ID: <20100918005220.27276.79561@web1> The easiest way I've found to learn facial expressions (the ones that go outside the basics), is to read a pay attention to how the characterst respond. Authors generally have to describe facial expressions to you as they describe dialogue and inner thoughts. Noticing patterns between these aspects can be quite helpful. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > These are interesting questions. I'm a musician as well, and have been told > the same things. People say that I need to have a more positive facial > expression. Since I've been totally blind since birth, facial expressions > are confusing to me. I don't know if I'm looking positive or negative even > though I'm enjoying playing bass in the band very much. Any help would be > greatly appreciated. > Good topic, > Jim. > Hope and guide dog, Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: "Jim" > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? >> Hello everyone, >> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the >> Blindtalk >> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I >> think >> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive >> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear >> from >> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been >> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to >> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in >> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. >> This >> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom >> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to >> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. >> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In >> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when >> I'm >> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other >> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't >> the >> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing >> mischief >> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really >> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was >> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and >> fit in with the regular crowd. >> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I >> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by >> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You >> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we >> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not >> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being >> "statuesque." >> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the >> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an >> intriguing >> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a >> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. >> Besides >> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass >> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and >> had only been playing a few weeks." >> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked >> about >> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the >> smile. >> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end >> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive >> to >> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects >> of >> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love >> for >> me than to play music with my two best friends. >> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a >> person's >> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do >> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking >> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I >> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." >> How >> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural >> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing >> and >> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or >> Stevie >> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be >> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these >> "free >> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, >> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the >> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me >> to >> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other >> things >> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to >> folks. >> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I >> now >> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. >> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula >> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go >> further and see what happens. >> Jim >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> http://www.eset.com > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5458 (20100917) __________ > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From ccook01 at knology.net Sun Sep 19 01:55:35 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 21:55:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] epub ebooks Message-ID: Hello all, I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook called ePub? I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the publisher sells it in ePub form. I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I spend my money. From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 02:06:32 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:06:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] epub ebooks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C957028.9060604@gmail.com> Hello Corey, If the ePub book is not protected with digital rights management, then you can read it easily. One accessible way is to use O'Reilly's Bookworm website: http://bookworm.oreilly.com Regards, Darrell On 9/18/2010 6:55 PM, Corey Cook wrote: > > Hello all, > I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook called > ePub? > I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the publisher > sells it in ePub form. > I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I spend > my money. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com From ccook01 at knology.net Sun Sep 19 03:27:14 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 23:27:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] epub ebooks In-Reply-To: <4C957028.9060604@gmail.com> References: <4C957028.9060604@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am sure it will be protected as it is a book on the publishers website for sale. Any chance I could work with the publisher to be able to purchase an accessible copy? Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darrell Shandrow Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 10:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] epub ebooks Hello Corey, If the ePub book is not protected with digital rights management, then you can read it easily. One accessible way is to use O'Reilly's Bookworm website: http://bookworm.oreilly.com Regards, Darrell On 9/18/2010 6:55 PM, Corey Cook wrote: > > Hello all, > I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook called > ePub? > I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the publisher > sells it in ePub form. > I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I spend > my money. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:38:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... Ignasi On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:38:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... Ignasi On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:38:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... Ignasi On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:38:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... Ignasi On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:38:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... Ignasi On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 15:38:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... Ignasi On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ccook01 at knology.net Sun Sep 19 19:15:43 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:15:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: (BlindTech) epub ebooks Message-ID: Now this could be wonderful! Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: blindtech-bounces at blindtech-list.info [mailto:blindtech-bounces at blindtech-list.info] On Behalf Of Stumpy Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 1:47 PM To: Technology list for the Blind and Vision Impaired Subject: Re: (BlindTech) epub ebooks Acording to the Blind Bargains mailing list, Blio is supposed to be released on September 28. This is free, accessible software to read e books. More info: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100915006132/en/Blio-Revolutionize-D igital-Reading-Experience-Launches-September If this link doesn't work, let me know... hudd61 at windstream.net Scott -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arnold Schmidt" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:47 PM To: "Technology list for the Blind and Vision Impaired" Subject: Re: (BlindTech) epub ebooks > There very well may be one, but I don't know of a program that jaws can > use to read these books. However, remember that theVictor Reader Stream > can read them if you purchase the softpack for an additional $50. Also, > the IPhone and IPod Touch can read them right out of the box. And both > these devices will do all kinds of other wonderful things besides read > EPub books. So, if you don't have, or have ever wanted either, it could be > the excuse you need to buy one of them. > > Arnold Schmidt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arnaud de Bonald" > To: "Technology list for the Blind and Vision Impaired" > > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:21 AM > Subject: Re: (BlindTech) epub ebooks > > > there is a firefox plugin to read epub file like html documents with > firefox, but it won't read protected files anyway. so basically, there > is no solution if you need to use adobe digital edition to read your file. > > > > > > -------------------- > Arnaud de Bonald - http://www.echo-on.org - http://twitter.com/adebonald > > > > Le 19/09/2010 03:55, Corey Cook a écrit : >> >> Hello all, >> I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook >> called >> ePub? >> I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the >> publisher >> sells it in ePub form. >> I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I >> spend >> my money. >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> BlindTech is owned by Lynn White (www.LynnWhite.RadioForLife.net). >> >> To view list archives or to change your subscription settings, visit >> >> http://BlindTech-list.info/mailman/listinfo/blindtech_blindtech-list.info >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an e-mail to >> >> BlindTech-unsubscribe at BlindTech-list.info >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the list, how it is being >> managed, >> or your subscription to it, please don't raise these concerns to the list >> or >> send test messages to it. Rather, please contact the administrators >> directly at >> >> BlindTech-owner at BlindTech-list.info >> >> and we will be happy to assist you. >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > BlindTech is owned by Lynn White (www.LynnWhite.RadioForLife.net). > > To view list archives or to change your subscription settings, visit > > http://BlindTech-list.info/mailman/listinfo/blindtech_blindtech-list.info > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an e-mail to > > BlindTech-unsubscribe at BlindTech-list.info > > If you have any questions or concerns about the list, how it is being > managed, > or your subscription to it, please don't raise these concerns to the list > or > send test messages to it. Rather, please contact the administrators > directly at > > BlindTech-owner at BlindTech-list.info > > and we will be happy to assist you. > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5461 (20100919) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5461 (20100919) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > BlindTech is owned by Lynn White (www.LynnWhite.RadioForLife.net). > > To view list archives or to change your subscription settings, visit > > http://BlindTech-list.info/mailman/listinfo/blindtech_blindtech-list.info > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an e-mail to > > BlindTech-unsubscribe at BlindTech-list.info > > If you have any questions or concerns about the list, how it is being > managed, > or your subscription to it, please don't raise these concerns to the list > or > send test messages to it. Rather, please contact the administrators > directly at > > BlindTech-owner at BlindTech-list.info > > and we will be happy to assist you. > --------------------------------------------------------- BlindTech is owned by Lynn White (www.LynnWhite.RadioForLife.net). To view list archives or to change your subscription settings, visit http://BlindTech-list.info/mailman/listinfo/blindtech_blindtech-list.info To unsubscribe from this list, please send an e-mail to BlindTech-unsubscribe at BlindTech-list.info If you have any questions or concerns about the list, how it is being managed, or your subscription to it, please don't raise these concerns to the list or send test messages to it. Rather, please contact the administrators directly at BlindTech-owner at BlindTech-list.info and we will be happy to assist you. From ccook01 at knology.net Sun Sep 19 20:12:21 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:12:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] kindle Message-ID: As this relates to being able to read textbooks I am wondering if any of you have had a chance to try out the new kindles with text to speech? And if so what is your impression of them? Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 19 21:31:34 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:31:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math Textbook References: <201009171752.o8HHqmB9005724@imr-da06.mx.aol.com> <77FC57334DF74150AB41BAF3D106FB57@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: <8F4F03F3DE324EC78358C0EA0E930C44@Ashley> Anita, Which school are you at? MD is my neighboring state. Except for George Mason university, none of my colleges have been able to do brailling. I have a braille embosser and an old version of Duxbury. But while I do get texts in PDF like you I haven't been able to copy the text to any other program. Glad it worked for you. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Adkins" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math Textbook > Hi Jewel and all, > > I agree with Jewel on that. I do have an embosser, and I am thankful for > it. DRS in Maryland is wonderful and helped me obtain mine. This > semester, I got all of my books from the publisher in PDF format, and I > copy the file into Duxbury for brailling because Braille is also my > prefered method. In addition, I Braille my own handouts. One of my > instructors had approached the disability guy here and asked about one of > the handouts, and he responded he couldn't do that. I asked for other > books to be brailled or even just recorded in digital format, and he also > said he didn't have the resources to do that. So, while asking is okay, > it isn't likely a Disability Office will do it. While I am mentioning > this, keep in mind that some formatting is required for Braille, and so if > possible, obtain the book prior to the start of the semester. This did > not work out in my own situation. Also, Brailling takes time, and it is > difficult to study with a noisy Juliet running. So this is something else > to keep in mind. Anita > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel S." > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:49 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math Textbook > > >> I've found that, at least with my college, they are very nitpikcy >> about what Braille they print. They told me straight up that they >> would not emboss an entire book, even when I told them that Braille >> was my primary reading method and that I am very bad with audio books >> when it comes to classes. They told me that they simply can't take the >> time to emboss an entire Braille book that I'm only ggoing to use for >> one semester, and said they aren't likely to even emboss parts of the >> book. They provided the books in digital format, though, which takes >> as much, if not more, time as embossing does...I thought it was rather >> odd and that this lack of understanding for the need of Braille was >> stupid. But that's why DSB got me my own embosser and a refreshable >> Braille display, so I could read digital Braille and emboss what I >> needed myself. I can't wait to get my embosser, and I plan on >> Brailling the parts of the books needed for class so I can bring the >> hardcopy Braille...at least for Spanish and mathematics classes. >> >> On 9/17/10, Michelle Clark wrote: >>> Are you near an Adaptive Technology Department of the local library in >>> your >>> area? If there is one near you, there may be a possibility that they >>> can >>> help you. Does the school where you attend have an embosser? Investigate >>> if >>> they can arrange that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope this works. Indeed, I know the feeling. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Michelle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 19 21:39:16 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:39:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wow, this message came through several times. Ignasi, you must have hit reply several times! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? > Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial > expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself > being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for > what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, > or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I > played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically > wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out > that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to > follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more > movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, > breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an > entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind > of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only > one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly > to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and > percussion, which is a little more complex. > I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I > started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many > people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in > general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I > guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I > don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The > only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to > substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically > don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I > think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it > though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell > how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... > > Ignasi > On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the >> Blindtalk >> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I >> think >> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please >> forgive >> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear >> from >> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been >> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning >> to >> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in >> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. >> This >> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >> >> >> >> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom >> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to >> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. >> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. >> In >> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when >> I'm >> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other >> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't >> the >> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing >> mischief >> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really >> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I >> was >> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and >> fit in with the regular crowd. >> >> >> >> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I >> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either >> by >> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, >> "You >> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how >> we >> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not >> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being >> "statuesque." >> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the >> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >> >> >> >> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an >> intriguing >> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a >> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. >> Besides >> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass >> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and >> had only been playing a few weeks." >> >> >> >> >> >> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked >> about >> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the >> smile. >> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I >> end >> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive >> to >> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects >> of >> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love >> for >> me than to play music with my two best friends. >> >> >> >> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a >> person's >> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How >> do >> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without >> looking >> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, >> I >> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." >> How >> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural >> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing >> and >> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or >> Stevie >> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly >> be >> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these >> "free >> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, >> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the >> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me >> to >> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >> >> >> >> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other >> things >> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to >> folks. >> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >> >> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I >> now >> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or >> moving. >> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula >> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >> >> >> >> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to >> go >> further and see what happens. >> >> >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From aadkins7 at verizon.net Sun Sep 19 21:42:46 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 17:42:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math Textbook In-Reply-To: <8F4F03F3DE324EC78358C0EA0E930C44@Ashley> References: <201009171752.o8HHqmB9005724@imr-da06.mx.aol.com> <77FC57334DF74150AB41BAF3D106FB57@AnitaAdkinsPC> <8F4F03F3DE324EC78358C0EA0E930C44@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi, I am at Frostburg State University in Frostburg, and they do not do much brailling. They do braille tests, but you have to be an excellent braille reader because braille goes off the page and is split from page to page and all that. But, I appreciate all Braille. As I had said, I do have an embosser and can Braille my handouts and PDF books. I would be more willing to Braille for others, but I don't have paper or the time to code the files. I just copy and paste, and so some of my books are brailled horribly, but I don't have time to edit the books and study at the same time. I do turn on the code mode in Duxbury and erase all the blank lines just to save on paper. Which state are you in, and what school do you attend. For my graduate degree, I plan to go home to WV and attend WVU in Morgantown to obtain a vision certification because I want to work in the field of blindness. For now, I am a senior hoping to graduate with a degree in Elementary Education/Language Arts in December of 2011. This semester will be my first semester in the school system. I dread dealing with print books and all, and I am planning to ask if a copy of the book is available in Braille somewhere since it might be available for blind fourth graders anyway. I'm not holding my breath though. Have a great evening. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math Textbook > Anita, > Which school are you at? MD is my neighboring state. > Except for George Mason university, none of my colleges have been able to > do brailling. > I have a braille embosser and an old version of Duxbury. But while I do > get texts in PDF like you I haven't been able to copy the text to any > other program. Glad it worked for you. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anita Adkins" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math Textbook > > >> Hi Jewel and all, >> >> I agree with Jewel on that. I do have an embosser, and I am thankful for >> it. DRS in Maryland is wonderful and helped me obtain mine. This >> semester, I got all of my books from the publisher in PDF format, and I >> copy the file into Duxbury for brailling because Braille is also my >> prefered method. In addition, I Braille my own handouts. One of my >> instructors had approached the disability guy here and asked about one of >> the handouts, and he responded he couldn't do that. I asked for other >> books to be brailled or even just recorded in digital format, and he also >> said he didn't have the resources to do that. So, while asking is okay, >> it isn't likely a Disability Office will do it. While I am mentioning >> this, keep in mind that some formatting is required for Braille, and so >> if possible, obtain the book prior to the start of the semester. This >> did not work out in my own situation. Also, Brailling takes time, and it >> is difficult to study with a noisy Juliet running. So this is something >> else to keep in mind. Anita >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel S." >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math Textbook >> >> >>> I've found that, at least with my college, they are very nitpikcy >>> about what Braille they print. They told me straight up that they >>> would not emboss an entire book, even when I told them that Braille >>> was my primary reading method and that I am very bad with audio books >>> when it comes to classes. They told me that they simply can't take the >>> time to emboss an entire Braille book that I'm only ggoing to use for >>> one semester, and said they aren't likely to even emboss parts of the >>> book. They provided the books in digital format, though, which takes >>> as much, if not more, time as embossing does...I thought it was rather >>> odd and that this lack of understanding for the need of Braille was >>> stupid. But that's why DSB got me my own embosser and a refreshable >>> Braille display, so I could read digital Braille and emboss what I >>> needed myself. I can't wait to get my embosser, and I plan on >>> Brailling the parts of the books needed for class so I can bring the >>> hardcopy Braille...at least for Spanish and mathematics classes. >>> >>> On 9/17/10, Michelle Clark wrote: >>>> Are you near an Adaptive Technology Department of the local library in >>>> your >>>> area? If there is one near you, there may be a possibility that they >>>> can >>>> help you. Does the school where you attend have an embosser? >>>> Investigate if >>>> they can arrange that. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hope this works. Indeed, I know the feeling. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Michelle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 19 21:49:43 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:49:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] epub ebooks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is not a JAWS question... It depends on the application, or device you use to read ePub books. JAWS by itself won't do it. It is like JAWS by itself doesn't read PDF's, you need Acrobat Reader or another application to display the files. Dave At 08:55 PM 9/18/2010, you wrote: >Hello all, >I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook called >ePub? >I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the publisher >sells it in ePub form. >I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I spend >my money. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From ccook01 at knology.net Sun Sep 19 23:48:15 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:48:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] epub ebooks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok David is there currently an application that will work with Jaws to read the files? I am sorry my question was not clear. Thanks for the feedback. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] epub ebooks It is not a JAWS question... It depends on the application, or device you use to read ePub books. JAWS by itself won't do it. It is like JAWS by itself doesn't read PDF's, you need Acrobat Reader or another application to display the files. Dave At 08:55 PM 9/18/2010, you wrote: >Hello all, >I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook called >ePub? >I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the publisher >sells it in ePub form. >I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I spend >my money. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Sep 20 00:17:24 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:17:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AIM reset password--please help! Message-ID: Hi Nabsters, My computer crashed recently, so I've been re-installing several programs on my new computer, including AIM. Unfortunately, I forgot my password. My mom was able to read me the words within the image and the AOL website said I'd receive an email with a link with where to continue the password reset process. I never received an email from AOL. Does anybody know the link or website for continuing the process to reset my AIM password, after I've dealt with the image? Thanks, Serena From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 03:11:38 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:11:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> <15946E38-A800-4FB2-9335-FDB4C065FAFF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7947B217-45F4-413A-80F2-91C5D1949870@gmail.com> Oh! I'm sorry! It shows up as sent only once in here... So I don't think it got sent many times! I wonder... In any case I'm sorry if it interrupted anyone...! IC On Sep 19, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Wow, this message came through several times. > Ignasi, you must have hit reply several times! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? > > >> Interesting topic indeed. In my opinion, it is way harder to learn facial expressions than to simply feel stuff. In other words, I can see myself being absolutely terrible at memorizing what facial expression to use for what. I can see how this would be very useful for an opera singer though, or for anyone that needs to act for any reason. A few years ago when I played as a soloist with an orchestra for the first time, I basically wasn't sure how to interact with the conductor. In the end I found out that the more comfortable I was on stage, the easier it was for him to follow me just because I was more relaxed and I naturally did more movements and gestures that he could understand. In this case, though, breathing is really important. A pianist generally breathes before an entrance, just like any other musician. And if one exaggerates this kind of things a little bit, it becomes fairly easy for people to follow. Only one time I had to memorize all the entrances and try to give them properly to different people because it was a piece for 4 pianos, orchestra and percussion, which is a little more complex. >> I don't know, for me these things really became pretty natural once I started performing regularly. When I was around 12 or 13 I heard many people telling me that I sounded great, but that my face and body in general looked very statue-like. And the whole problem slowly went away I guess. Of course my situation is different from many others just because I don't have to deal with dancing, which I guess can be really hard. The only time i had to do something with dancers it was because I accepted to substitute a friend accompanying for the ballet department. I basically don't know anything at all about ballet, and for the first 30 minutes I think I was playing stuff waaaay too fast. After a while I got used to it though. I tried to listen to everyone's movements and I could kind of tell how fast they were going. Luckily it was only a couple of rehearsals... >> >> Ignasi >> On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> >>> >>> I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the Blindtalk >>> (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I think >>> this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive >>> me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear from >>> folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been >>> totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to >>> affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a >>> precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in >>> August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. This >>> goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised >>> pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom >>> that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to >>> move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped >>> solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. >>> That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole >>> blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In >>> fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when I'm >>> totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still >>> remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other >>> people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't the >>> type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing mischief >>> in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really >>> remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and >>> terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was >>> pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and >>> fit in with the regular crowd. >>> >>> >>> >>> I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I >>> find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by >>> myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You >>> need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we >>> can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not >>> stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being "statuesque." >>> In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the >>> reason for my way of being deals with blindness. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an intriguing >>> electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a >>> resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. Besides >>> perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass >>> bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and >>> had only been playing a few weeks." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked about >>> my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the smile. >>> I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end >>> up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive to >>> a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects of >>> things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love for >>> me than to play music with my two best friends. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a person's >>> natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do >>> totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking >>> forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I >>> was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." How >>> does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural >>> and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing and >>> sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or Stevie >>> Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be >>> overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too >>> self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these "free >>> forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to >>> believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, >>> unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the >>> motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me to >>> do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look >>> foolish or stand out in the wrong way. >>> >>> >>> >>> The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other things >>> going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and >>> public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to folks. >>> And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. >>> >>> My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I now >>> know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. >>> Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look >>> natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula >>> for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? >>> >>> >>> >>> I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go >>> further and see what happens. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jpj1117 at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 04:00:34 2010 From: jpj1117 at gmail.com (Janice J) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:00:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindattic] Dell Precision M6400 with accessories and docking station for sell Message-ID: <2051E3B8A1D449A59A04CE59F8F67E63@Pinkerton> Hey Listers, I am looking to sell a Dell Precision M6400 laptop/ Mobile work station. I am working on transitioning full time, to the Mac OS, for better capability with software I need for school/ work... and will no longer need the device I have only owned for the past 8+ months. Below is a description of the machine, as well as a link to a table with the specs. The laptop will come with brand new, not yet opened usb mouse, docking station, an already installed upgrade to Win 7, all original driver CD's, etc... Asking price $800.00 plus shipping. ************************* http://www.notebook-driver.com/laptops-information/dell-precision-m6400-mobile-workstation-technical-specifications/ Awesome Performance Where other mobile workstations start to fade is just where the M6400 comes into its own. With specifications that even some desktop workstations might struggle to deliver, the flagship mobile workstation from Dell is ideal, even for the most demanding user. Optional Intel® Quad Core processing power, working in harmony with a super-fast 1066MHz FSB, is only matched by the options of RAID 0 storage performance and stunning NVIDIA® Quadro FX graphics. Designed to be a workstation, the M6400 has the thermal headroom to deliver the certified ISV application performance levels you expect from Dell Precision. Massive Scalability Such raw performance needs to be matched with the ability to manage huge amounts of data. The M6400 enables memory scalability up to 16GB thanks to the Intel® Q43 chipset that provides support for 4 memory DIMM slots. With two dedicated hard drive bays the storage capacity can scale up to 1 Terabyte and, if that isn't enough, the e-SATA interface enables you to directly connect external SATA hard drives. Advanced Design The M6400 is designed from the ground up to be a mobile workstation with all the needs and expectations of our most demanding customers in mind. Its sleek aluminum chassis and optional edge-to-edge 17? screen make a statement wherever it may be. The M6400 is designed to be a mobile workstation with all the needs and expectations in mind of our most demanding customers. Its sleek aluminum chassis and optional RGB LED edge-to-edge 17? screen with 100% Adobe® color gamut support gives you the tools you need to work at the speed of thought. ************ I also own a 4 way spinner rolling laptop case, with 360 degrees spinning capabilities that I am also willing to sell for $100.00. The laptop case goes for $400.00 brand new. Victorinox Rolling Trevi 4-wheel rolling bag http://www.ebags.com/product/victorinox/rolling-trevi-4-wheel-17-laptop-brief/137160 Cheers, Janice Jeang -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 14:01:23 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:01:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001101cb58cc$4fe065f0$efa131d0$@com> Hi Jim, Interesting questions. The only one I can really speak to from experience is looking like you are enjoying yourself while playing music, though I know a fair number of blind people who can dance quite well, and I think Mary is pretty spot on with her comments about facial expressions. I have been nearly totally blind from the time of my birth. I play guitar. I used to play in a rock band through high school and college, and I still jam with friends and play coffee shops and open mics sometimes. I somewhat recently had a discussion along these lines with a sighted friend of mine with whom I often play. I have always moved to some degree while playing. Nothing over the top, but tapping the foot, nodding the head, movement in the shoulders and/or upper body are all things I just kind of naturally do when I am feeling what I am playing. It isn't constant, nor is it preplanned and forced. I asked my friend if he and others did the same thing. I was pretty sure that most people do, but never having observed it, I was not completely sure. He told me of course they did. He also explained to me, which makes perfect sense, that each individual has their own unique way of expressing their emotions while playing and their own idiosyncratic movements. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to let the emotion and passion of the music be communicated through your body. Just do your best to relax, feel what you are playing, and enjoy yourself. Nobody ever showed me what to do, it just comes naturally if you let it out. I realize this may not be all that helpful, but don't over think and analyze the issue to the point where it detracts from the joy you find in playing. Also, I'm pretty impressed that you had "perfect licks" after playing the instrument for only a couple of weeks! Take care, Sean From kim at senderogroup.com Mon Sep 20 14:43:04 2010 From: kim at senderogroup.com (Kim Casey) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:43:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] 2 major releases from Sendero Group Message-ID: 1. Sendero now on the iPhone: Finally, announcing Sendero GPS LookAround for the iPhone for the whopping price of 4 dollars and 99 cents, available on the iPhone App store. Unlike Sendero's other 5 full-featured navigation applications, LookAround does just that. It announces the nearest points of interest and your current location. With a simple shake of the phone, find out where you are. LookAround does not provide routing although it can be used while a GPS routing program, such as Navigon, runs in the background. To read details about how Sendero GPS LookAround works, go to http://senderogroup.com/support/supportiphone.htm 2. A minor free upgrade with major league benefits: Sendero GPS 2010.3 for BrailleNote products enhances speed and reliability for the mPower, Apex and PK GPS software. Just when we thought the memory capacity of the PK was all used up, some new code techniques have breathed new life into it. The beta testers are blown away and we think you too will enjoy the even more reliable performance of Sendero GPS 2010.3. BrailleNote 2010 users can download the free upgrade at their account: http://www.MySendero.com These improvements are available in the Software Development Kit and will be present in other products powered by Sendero when they are next updated. Mike May, President of Sendero Group and Charles LaPierre, Chief Technology Officer say, "Sendero GPS LookAround is the latest in our suite of 6 independence tools along with Sendero Maps for the PC, Sendero GPS for BrailleNotes, Sense Nav for Sense notetakers, StreetTalk for Pac Mate and Mobile Geo for Windows Mobile phones. After nearly 11 years of innovation, you can expect even more from Sendero in the near future. Deepest thanks to you fellow independent travelers for being part of the design and use of these navigation tools. Contact Sendero Group: http://www.senderogroup.com Toll free phone (US and Canada): 1-888-757-6810 Direct phone: +1 530 757-6800 From dandrews at visi.com Mon Sep 20 15:13:42 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:13:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] IBEX tactile products Message-ID: > >The Education and Public Outreach Program staff for NASA's >Interstellar Boundary Explorer, or IBEX, spacecraft mission are >pleased to announce the availability of tactile products for people >with visual impairments. The booklet contains two pages, one with a >tactile representation of the IBEX spacecraft and the other with a >tactile representation of our heliosphere. Accompanying the tactile >booklet is an audio CD with mp3 files providing detailed >descriptions of the tactile sheets and the science behind the IBEX >spacecraft mission. The booklet is appropriate for middle school >students, high school students, or adults who wish to learn more >about the IBEX spacecraft and the influence of the Sun on our region >of the galaxy. > >This tactile product booklet is available at no charge either for >the booklet or for shipping, but quantities are very limited. The >minimum number of booklets that can be sent to a single address is >5. The maximum number of booklets that can be sent to a single >address is 30. Requests will be fulfilled on a first come, first >served basis until all of the booklets have been distributed. Boxes >will be shipped via USPS Priority Mail beginning October 11, 2010. > >If you would like to request copies of the IBEX tactile booklet, >send an email to ibexepo at swri.org. Please >include the following information in the body of the email message: > >Name >Address >City, State, Zip Code >Number of booklets requested (any number between 5 and 30) > >Thank you! >IBEX Education and Public Outreach Staff > > > >Visit the Adler Planetarium Website >http://www.adlerplanetarium.org > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 5464 (20100920) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 17:52:09 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:52:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Let's keep voting! Message-ID: Hey fellow nabsters!  As you know by now, we are at it again; we are  pushing twards that pepsi refresh grant  to help us fund youth slam!  Many of you have heard of  the amazing opportunity  this has been for  our  youth in the past, many of you have been those youth and many others have been mentors in this exciting  program.  Well, we have  the opportunity  to make youth slam 2011 a reality! How; well I'll tell you!...  Vote! Vote! Vote!  Actually, it is just that simple, because you can vote in three different ways as mentioned below: 1. Text Message: Simply put the number 101913 into the body of a text, and send that text to 73774. *Standard text-messaging rates apply 2. Go to www.refresheverything.com/nfbyouthslam , click the link to vote, and then choose the log in using Facebook option. Once you're successfully logged in, click the vote button on our page again and the vote link will disappear and you'll have logged your vote! 3. Go to www.refresheverything.com/nfbyouthslam , click the link to vote, and then choose the sign in directly with Pepsi option. Once you're successfully logged in, click the vote button on our page again and the vote link will disappear and you'll have logged your vote! I've been voting, and I?m going to hand out flyers to people on my campus, and ask friends  to get in on  the voting too!  Thank you all for helping to make this a reality! -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Sep 21 15:08:46 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? Message-ID: <985676.54464.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello all, I found this documentary "Going Blind" which will be showing in a theoter in New York City on October 8 and can be perchased by universities for public showing. I am considering asking my university to perchasing it to show for Disability Awareness month activity, but I wanted some oppinion on what other blind people think about it. A brief discription is provided below: ABOUT THE FILM Going Blind is a unique documentary film that increases public awareness of sight loss and low vision issues profoundly affecting the lives of more and more people and those who love them. Documentary film director and journalist Joe Lovett has glaucoma, a disease that robs 4.5 million people of their vision world wide. Over the years, Joe has lost a significant amount of vision and in his concern about how to deal with more vision loss, he has started to talk with people who have already lost theirs; people who have lost their sight through blinding diseases like diabetic retinopathy and macular degeneration, others through infection and accidents. Some of the people he meets on the street, stopping to ask if they have time to talk. Each one has a fascinating story about dealing with the loss we fear most, the loss of sight. Going Blind interweaves Joe’s story, his mission to do what he can to slow down the course of his disease through medication and surgeries, with the stories of others whom he looks to for guidance in a darkening world. Jessica Jones, a neighbor of Joe’s, is one of the people participating in the film. They met on the street when Jessica was training her seeing eye dog Chef, a black lab. A young, beautiful and talented artist who had been teaching in the New York City public school system, Jessica was exasperated by the lack of encouragement and opportunities after she had lost her sight to diabetic retinopathy in just 8 months at age 32. During the process of filming Jessica secured a job teaching art at a school in the Bronx for blind children with multiple disabilities. Another is eleven-year old Emmet Teran. Emmet has low vision from albinism, a condition he inherited from his father who also has to deal with extremely low vision. Emmet works with a comedy troupe after school and uses humor to dismiss some of the hurts a child encounters from his peers. These compelling individual stories provide the sighted with a glimpse into the world of low vision and blindness. Worldwide, 37,000,000 people have lost their vision. In the United States alone, Lighthouse International reports that 10 million people are legally blind (1.3 million) or visually impaired (8.7 million). Given our aging population and the increasing prevalence of low vision in our society, it is of paramount importance that we understand sight loss and work towards a better future. Going Blind encourages and inspires people to take action to preserve, prolong, and maximize the precious gift of sight – for themselves, their loved ones, and society. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 15:33:29 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:33:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? In-Reply-To: <985676.54464.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <985676.54464.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0FD82B040F664A14A71665AEA5704AD6@MarcPC> Without intending to be harsh, and baseing my comments exclusively on the description below, the only reason I might consider showing this film to people is so that I could explain what is so harmful about the attitudes expressed in it. It feels much more like the all-too-common personal tragedy/inspiring individuals way of depicting blindness. Hard to say for sure, but this is the impression I get from the description. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? > Hello all, > I found this documentary "Going Blind" which will be showing in a theoter > in New York City on October 8 and can be perchased by universities for > public showing. I am considering asking my university to perchasing it to > show for Disability Awareness month activity, but I wanted some oppinion > on what other blind people think about it. > A brief discription is provided below: > > ABOUT THE FILM > > Going Blind is a unique documentary film that increases public awareness > of sight loss and low vision issues profoundly affecting the lives of more > and > more people and those who love them. > > Documentary film director and journalist Joe Lovett has glaucoma, a > disease that robs 4.5 million people of their vision world wide. Over the > years, Joe > has lost a significant amount of vision and in his concern about how to > deal with more vision loss, he has started to talk with people who have > already > lost theirs; people who have lost their sight through blinding diseases > like diabetic retinopathy and macular degeneration, others through > infection and > accidents. > > Some of the people he meets on the street, stopping to ask if they have > time to talk. Each one has a fascinating story about dealing with the loss > we fear > most, the loss of sight. > > Going Blind interweaves Joe’s story, his mission to do what he can to slow > down the course of his disease through medication and surgeries, with the > stories > of others whom he looks to for guidance in a darkening world. > > Jessica Jones, a neighbor of Joe’s, is one of the people participating in > the film. They met on the street when Jessica was training her seeing eye > dog > Chef, a black lab. > > A young, beautiful and talented artist who had been teaching in the New > York City public school system, Jessica was exasperated by the lack of > encouragement > and opportunities after she had lost her sight to diabetic retinopathy in > just 8 months at age 32. During the process of filming Jessica secured a > job > teaching art at a school in the Bronx for blind children with multiple > disabilities. > > Another is eleven-year old Emmet Teran. Emmet has low vision from > albinism, a condition he inherited from his father who also has to deal > with extremely > low vision. Emmet works with a comedy troupe after school and uses humor > to dismiss some of the hurts a child encounters from his peers. > > These compelling individual stories provide the sighted with a glimpse > into the world of low vision and blindness. Worldwide, 37,000,000 people > have lost > > their vision. In the United States alone, Lighthouse International reports > that 10 million people are legally blind (1.3 million) or visually > impaired > (8.7 million). > > Given our aging population and the increasing prevalence of low vision in > our society, it is of paramount importance that we understand sight loss > and work > towards a better future. Going Blind encourages and inspires people to > take action to preserve, prolong, and maximize the precious gift of > sight – for > themselves, their loved ones, and society. > > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 15:59:09 2010 From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:59:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? In-Reply-To: <0FD82B040F664A14A71665AEA5704AD6@MarcPC> References: <985676.54464.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <0FD82B040F664A14A71665AEA5704AD6@MarcPC> Message-ID: @Anmol,, thanks for sending out the description @Marc. I share your reservations about the message the film might send if it focuses more on blindness as a tragedy. However, if the film goes about describing the skills people acquire in place of blindness, it might be useful for other blind people, and may not end up being as tragic as we might think. I guess we will see when it comes out. ,e Kat It is encouraging to me that the description implies the maker of the film included testimony of people of different ages and different backgrounds with blindness. Best On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Marc Workman wrote: > Without intending to be harsh, and baseing my comments exclusively on the > description below, the only reason I might consider showing this film to > people is so that I could explain what is so harmful about the attitudes > expressed in it. > > It feels much more like the all-too-common personal tragedy/inspiring > individuals way of depicting blindness. Hard to say for sure, but this is > the impression I get from the description. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:08 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? > > > Hello all, >> I found this documentary "Going Blind" which will be showing in a theoter >> in New York City on October 8 and can be perchased by universities for >> public showing. I am considering asking my university to perchasing it to >> show for Disability Awareness month activity, but I wanted some oppinion on >> what other blind people think about it. >> A brief discription is provided below: >> >> ABOUT THE FILM >> >> Going Blind is a unique documentary film that increases public awareness >> of sight loss and low vision issues profoundly affecting the lives of more >> and >> more people and those who love them. >> >> Documentary film director and journalist Joe Lovett has glaucoma, a >> disease that robs 4.5 million people of their vision world wide. Over the >> years, Joe >> has lost a significant amount of vision and in his concern about how to >> deal with more vision loss, he has started to talk with people who have >> already >> lost theirs; people who have lost their sight through blinding diseases >> like diabetic retinopathy and macular degeneration, others through infection >> and >> accidents. >> >> Some of the people he meets on the street, stopping to ask if they have >> time to talk. Each one has a fascinating story about dealing with the loss >> we fear >> most, the loss of sight. >> >> Going Blind interweaves Joe’s story, his mission to do what he can to slow >> down the course of his disease through medication and surgeries, with the >> stories >> of others whom he looks to for guidance in a darkening world. >> >> Jessica Jones, a neighbor of Joe’s, is one of the people participating in >> the film. They met on the street when Jessica was training her seeing eye >> dog >> Chef, a black lab. >> >> A young, beautiful and talented artist who had been teaching in the New >> York City public school system, Jessica was exasperated by the lack of >> encouragement >> and opportunities after she had lost her sight to diabetic retinopathy in >> just 8 months at age 32. During the process of filming Jessica secured a job >> teaching art at a school in the Bronx for blind children with multiple >> disabilities. >> >> Another is eleven-year old Emmet Teran. Emmet has low vision from >> albinism, a condition he inherited from his father who also has to deal with >> extremely >> low vision. Emmet works with a comedy troupe after school and uses humor >> to dismiss some of the hurts a child encounters from his peers. >> >> These compelling individual stories provide the sighted with a glimpse >> into the world of low vision and blindness. Worldwide, 37,000,000 people >> have lost >> >> their vision. In the United States alone, Lighthouse International reports >> that 10 million people are legally blind (1.3 million) or visually impaired >> (8.7 million). >> >> Given our aging population and the increasing prevalence of low vision in >> our society, it is of paramount importance that we understand sight loss and >> work >> towards a better future. Going Blind encourages and inspires people to >> take action to preserve, prolong, and maximize the precious gift of sight – >> for >> themselves, their loved ones, and society. >> >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com > -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-318 C From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 16:04:31 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:04:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? References: <985676.54464.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It sounds like to me this film is filled with the societal fears about blindness and that losing sight is portrayed as a tragedy. It'd be more helpful to present these stories but also show the solution to many of the stereotypes: blindness training, positive role models etc. Just my thoughts. Anjelina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:08 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? > Hello all, > I found this documentary "Going Blind" which will be showing in a theoter > in New York City on October 8 and can be perchased by universities for > public showing. I am considering asking my university to perchasing it to > show for Disability Awareness month activity, but I wanted some oppinion > on what other blind people think about it. > A brief discription is provided below: > > ABOUT THE FILM > > Going Blind is a unique documentary film that increases public awareness > of sight loss and low vision issues profoundly affecting the lives of more > and > more people and those who love them. > > Documentary film director and journalist Joe Lovett has glaucoma, a > disease that robs 4.5 million people of their vision world wide. Over the > years, Joe > has lost a significant amount of vision and in his concern about how to > deal with more vision loss, he has started to talk with people who have > already > lost theirs; people who have lost their sight through blinding diseases > like diabetic retinopathy and macular degeneration, others through > infection and > accidents. > > Some of the people he meets on the street, stopping to ask if they have > time to talk. Each one has a fascinating story about dealing with the loss > we fear > most, the loss of sight. > > Going Blind interweaves Joe’s story, his mission to do what he can to slow > down the course of his disease through medication and surgeries, with the > stories > of others whom he looks to for guidance in a darkening world. > > Jessica Jones, a neighbor of Joe’s, is one of the people participating in > the film. They met on the street when Jessica was training her seeing eye > dog > Chef, a black lab. > > A young, beautiful and talented artist who had been teaching in the New > York City public school system, Jessica was exasperated by the lack of > encouragement > and opportunities after she had lost her sight to diabetic retinopathy in > just 8 months at age 32. During the process of filming Jessica secured a > job > teaching art at a school in the Bronx for blind children with multiple > disabilities. > > Another is eleven-year old Emmet Teran. Emmet has low vision from > albinism, a condition he inherited from his father who also has to deal > with extremely > low vision. Emmet works with a comedy troupe after school and uses humor > to dismiss some of the hurts a child encounters from his peers. > > These compelling individual stories provide the sighted with a glimpse > into the world of low vision and blindness. Worldwide, 37,000,000 people > have lost > > their vision. In the United States alone, Lighthouse International reports > that 10 million people are legally blind (1.3 million) or visually > impaired > (8.7 million). > > Given our aging population and the increasing prevalence of low vision in > our society, it is of paramount importance that we understand sight loss > and work > towards a better future. Going Blind encourages and inspires people to > take action to preserve, prolong, and maximize the precious gift of > sight – for > themselves, their loved ones, and society. > > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Sep 21 22:09:21 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:09:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? Message-ID: <20100921220921.24599.61005@web1> Agreed. I don't have a problem discussing the challenges of being a blind person, but that discussion needs to be balanced with some perspective; it's important for people to understand that the inconveniences associated with vision loss are nothing compared to the psychosocial implications of blindness and the attitudes toward it. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Without intending to be harsh, and baseing my comments exclusively on the > description below, the only reason I might consider showing this film to > people is so that I could explain what is so harmful about the attitudes > expressed in it. > It feels much more like the all-too-common personal tragedy/inspiring > individuals way of depicting blindness. Hard to say for sure, but this is > the impression I get from the description. > Best, > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anmol Bhatia" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:08 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? >> Hello all, >> I found this documentary "Going Blind" which will be showing in a theoter >> in New York City on October 8 and can be perchased by universities for >> public showing. I am considering asking my university to perchasing it to >> show for Disability Awareness month activity, but I wanted some oppinion >> on what other blind people think about it. >> A brief discription is provided below: >> ABOUT THE FILM >> Going Blind is a unique documentary film that increases public awareness >> of sight loss and low vision issues profoundly affecting the lives of more >> and >> more people and those who love them. >> Documentary film director and journalist Joe Lovett has glaucoma, a >> disease that robs 4.5 million people of their vision world wide. Over the >> years, Joe >> has lost a significant amount of vision and in his concern about how to >> deal with more vision loss, he has started to talk with people who have >> already >> lost theirs; people who have lost their sight through blinding diseases >> like diabetic retinopathy and macular degeneration, others through >> infection and >> accidents. >> Some of the people he meets on the street, stopping to ask if they have >> time to talk. Each one has a fascinating story about dealing with the loss >> we fear >> most, the loss of sight. >> Going Blind interweaves Joe’s story, his mission to do what he can to slow >> down the course of his disease through medication and surgeries, with the >> stories >> of others whom he looks to for guidance in a darkening world. >> Jessica Jones, a neighbor of Joe’s, is one of the people participating in >> the film. They met on the street when Jessica was training her seeing eye >> dog >> Chef, a black lab. >> A young, beautiful and talented artist who had been teaching in the New >> York City public school system, Jessica was exasperated by the lack of >> encouragement >> and opportunities after she had lost her sight to diabetic retinopathy in >> just 8 months at age 32. During the process of filming Jessica secured a >> job >> teaching art at a school in the Bronx for blind children with multiple >> disabilities. >> Another is eleven-year old Emmet Teran. Emmet has low vision from >> albinism, a condition he inherited from his father who also has to deal >> with extremely >> low vision. Emmet works with a comedy troupe after school and uses humor >> to dismiss some of the hurts a child encounters from his peers. >> These compelling individual stories provide the sighted with a glimpse >> into the world of low vision and blindness. Worldwide, 37,000,000 people >> have lost >> their vision. In the United States alone, Lighthouse International reports >> that 10 million people are legally blind (1.3 million) or visually >> impaired >> (8.7 million). >> Given our aging population and the increasing prevalence of low vision in >> our society, it is of paramount importance that we understand sight loss >> and work >> towards a better future. Going Blind encourages and inspires people to >> take action to preserve, prolong, and maximize the precious gift of >> sight – for >> themselves, their loved ones, and society. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Sep 21 22:13:00 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:13:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? Message-ID: <20100921221300.32582.49401@web3> The tragedy story is only half the picture. Documentaries of this nature also tend to focus heavily on the medical aspects of blindness and the need for a cure. The end result is that the sighted learn to assume that all blind people want to be "cured" for a lack of better terminology. though some of us would appreciate medical intervension and/or sight restoration were it to become feasable in each individual's case, others would not. The sighted need to learn to appreciate the wide spectrum of opinion regarding the role of medicine in our lives in regards to our blindness. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > @Anmol,, thanks for sending out the description > @Marc. I share your reservations about the message the film might send if it > focuses more on blindness as a tragedy. However, if the film goes about > describing the skills people acquire in place of blindness, it might be > useful for other blind people, and may not end up being as tragic as we > might think. I guess we will see when it comes out. ,e > Kat > It is encouraging to me that the description implies the maker of the film > included testimony of people of different ages and different backgrounds > with blindness. > Best > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Marc Workman wrote: >> Without intending to be harsh, and baseing my comments exclusively on the >> description below, the only reason I might consider showing this film to >> people is so that I could explain what is so harmful about the attitudes >> expressed in it. >> It feels much more like the all-too-common personal tragedy/inspiring >> individuals way of depicting blindness. Hard to say for sure, but this is >> the impression I get from the description. >> Best, >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:08 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Oppinions on the documentary "Going Blind"? >> Hello all, >>> I found this documentary "Going Blind" which will be showing in a theoter >>> in New York City on October 8 and can be perchased by universities for >>> public showing. I am considering asking my university to perchasing it to >>> show for Disability Awareness month activity, but I wanted some oppinion on >>> what other blind people think about it. >>> A brief discription is provided below: >>> ABOUT THE FILM >>> Going Blind is a unique documentary film that increases public awareness >>> of sight loss and low vision issues profoundly affecting the lives of more >>> and >>> more people and those who love them. >>> Documentary film director and journalist Joe Lovett has glaucoma, a >>> disease that robs 4.5 million people of their vision world wide. Over the >>> years, Joe >>> has lost a significant amount of vision and in his concern about how to >>> deal with more vision loss, he has started to talk with people who have >>> already >>> lost theirs; people who have lost their sight through blinding diseases >>> like diabetic retinopathy and macular degeneration, others through infection >>> and >>> accidents. >>> Some of the people he meets on the street, stopping to ask if they have >>> time to talk. Each one has a fascinating story about dealing with the loss >>> we fear >>> most, the loss of sight. >>> Going Blind interweaves Joe’s story, his mission to do what he can to slow >>> down the course of his disease through medication and surgeries, with the >>> stories >>> of others whom he looks to for guidance in a darkening world. >>> Jessica Jones, a neighbor of Joe’s, is one of the people participating in >>> the film. They met on the street when Jessica was training her seeing eye >>> dog >>> Chef, a black lab. >>> A young, beautiful and talented artist who had been teaching in the New >>> York City public school system, Jessica was exasperated by the lack of >>> encouragement >>> and opportunities after she had lost her sight to diabetic retinopathy in >>> just 8 months at age 32. During the process of filming Jessica secured a job >>> teaching art at a school in the Bronx for blind children with multiple >>> disabilities. >>> Another is eleven-year old Emmet Teran. Emmet has low vision from >>> albinism, a condition he inherited from his father who also has to deal with >>> extremely >>> low vision. Emmet works with a comedy troupe after school and uses humor >>> to dismiss some of the hurts a child encounters from his peers. >>> These compelling individual stories provide the sighted with a glimpse >>> into the world of low vision and blindness. Worldwide, 37,000,000 people >>> have lost >>> their vision. In the United States alone, Lighthouse International reports >>> that 10 million people are legally blind (1.3 million) or visually impaired >>> (8.7 million). >>> Given our aging population and the increasing prevalence of low vision in >>> our society, it is of paramount importance that we understand sight loss and >>> work >>> towards a better future. Going Blind encourages and inspires people to >>> take action to preserve, prolong, and maximize the precious gift of sight – >>> for >>> themselves, their loved ones, and society. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > St. John's University College of Law 2013 > 631-521-318 C > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 23:46:55 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses Message-ID: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Dear all, Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News Channel personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only made sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a brief, witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other senses are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not impressive. I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. My questions are these: 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If the anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where you want to be polite but informative. Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 23:46:55 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses Message-ID: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Dear all, Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News Channel personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only made sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a brief, witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other senses are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not impressive. I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. My questions are these: 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If the anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where you want to be polite but informative. Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 23:46:55 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses Message-ID: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Dear all, Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News Channel personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only made sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a brief, witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other senses are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not impressive. I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. My questions are these: 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If the anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where you want to be polite but informative. Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 00:35:59 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:35:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe, Were these nationally syndicated people? If so, who were they? Because that makes me kind of jealous. Anyways, when people say stuff like that I say something like "I don't really think that's true. From my experience, my ears aren't better than the average person's. I think I pay more attention to what I hear more than most people, but my senses are just the same." Of course, that's kind of long-winded and not always practical, but there you have it. On 9/21/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Dear all, > > Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News Channel > personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and > while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the > anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only made > sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I > only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a brief, > witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other senses > are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not impressive. > I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. > > My questions are these: > > 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? > > 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? > > Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If the > anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more > instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions > accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where you > want to be polite but informative. > > Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Sep 22 01:01:41 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 20:01:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Burlington Hawk Eye Now Accessible to Blind and Print-Disabled People Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Michael Barber, President National Federation of the Blind of Iowa (515) 771-8348 E-mail: michael.NFBI at gmail.com Burlington Hawk Eye Now Accessible to Blind and Print-Disabled People Des Moines, Iowa (September 21, 2010): Michael Barber, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Iowa (NFBI), Iowa's largest blind consumer organization, announced Saturday at the group’s state convention that the Hawk Eye newspaper is now accessible to blind and print-disabled Iowans through NFB-NEWSLINE®. NFB-NEWSLINE®, a service of the National Federation of the Blind, allows those who cannot read conventional newsprint due to a visual or physical disability to listen to newspapers and magazines over the telephone, on the Web, or by download to a digital talking-book player. Through the service, blind and print-disabled people can access over three hundred newspapers and magazines independently, determining how, when, and where they wish to read their favorite publications. The Hawk Eye is the latest Iowa newspaper added to NFB-NEWSLINE®. The first Iowa newspaper became available on NFB-NEWSLINE® in 1996. Jerry Jackson, president of the Southeast Iowa Chapter of the NFBI and a Burlington resident, said: “It’s exciting to be able to read my local paper, just like sighted people do. And I can read it wherever I am.” Michael Barber said: "We are thrilled that the Burlington Hawk Eye has joined NFB-NEWSLINE®. Each accessible paper is like an oasis in the information desert that exists for blind people.” The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa is a statewide organization of blind and sighted individuals changing what it means to be blind by educating the public about the abilities of blind persons to lead productive and self-sufficient lives, and advocating for their rights to do so. # # # From missheather at comcast.net Wed Sep 22 01:06:14 2010 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 20:06:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: Hello Joe, In those situations I simply reply to their comment by saying, "Oh I wish that were true, I've heard lots of people say it but I've never seen it. I think blind people just use what they've got more so they get better at doing it." I finish with a brief example related to what that particular person does. So, for example, with the news anchor people I'd say "You know, the way you've practised using your news reading voice until you're better than most people and you continue to improve as you work with your voice. It's the same with blind people relying on their hearing or touch. The more you do something the better you get at doing it. Or maybe not, I'm still very average at. Fill in the blank with one's own particular inadequacy." That keeps the fun in the conversation, and ends the "amazing blind you" topic and politely educates them regarding that myth. That's how I always handle it anyway. Good luck with your next encounter. Best regards, Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:46 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses Dear all, Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News Channel personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only made sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a brief, witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other senses are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not impressive. I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. My questions are these: 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If the anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where you want to be polite but informative. Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 01:12:42 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:12:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: HelloJoe and list, I cannot begin to speak for anyone else (nor is anyone asking me to). But I tend to think that my hearing is about as good or bad as anyone else's. I basically tell people that I think my senses work just as well as the next person's, just that I think I've learned to use them in different ways to kind of "get my mony's worth" out of what I've been given. Best, Darian On 9/21/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joe, > Were these nationally syndicated people? If so, who were they? > Because that makes me kind of jealous. > Anyways, when people say stuff like that I say something like "I > don't really think that's true. From my experience, my ears aren't > better than the average person's. I think I pay more attention to > what I hear more than most people, but my senses are just the same." > Of course, that's kind of long-winded and not always practical, but > there you have it. > > On 9/21/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News >> Channel >> personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and >> while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the >> anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only >> made >> sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I >> only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a >> brief, >> witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other >> senses >> are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not >> impressive. >> I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. >> >> My questions are these: >> >> 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? >> >> 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? >> >> Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If >> the >> anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more >> instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions >> accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where >> you >> want to be polite but informative. >> >> Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 03:35:50 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:35:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [Vrstream] Fw: [fcb-l] FW: [acb-l] Stevie Wonder to UN: EaseCopyrights for theBlind Message-ID: Thought you all might be interested in this. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherri" To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:15 AM Subject: [Vrstream] Fw: [fcb-l] FW: [acb-l] Stevie Wonder to UN: EaseCopyrights for theBlind > Passing this along. Thought this was interesting! > > Sherri > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edwards, Paul" > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:48 AM > Subject: [fcb-l] FW: [acb-l] Stevie Wonder to UN: Ease Copyrights for > theBlind > > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: acb-l-bounces at acb.org [mailto:acb-l-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of >> John Heim >> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:46 AM >> To: acb-l at acb.org >> Subject: [acb-l] Stevie Wonder to UN: Ease Copyrights for the Blind >> >> Relevant to our recent discussion about people who have "made it". >> --- >> Stevie Wonder to UN: Ease Copyrights for the Blind >> GENEVA (AP) -- Stevie Wonder pressed global copyright overseers on Monday >> to >> help blind and visually impaired people access millions of science, >> history >> and other audiobooks, which they cannot read in electronic form. >> The blind singer told the U.N.'s 184-nation World Intellectual Property >> Organization that more than 300 million people who ''live in the dark'' >> want >> to ''read their way into light,'' and the current copyright system denies >> them an equal opportunity. >> >> The current legal framework means that institutes for the blind in >> different >> countries may be required to make multiple audiobook versions of the same >> work, said Richard Owens, WIPO's director of copyright and electronic >> commerce. >> >> Owens said this leads to higher costs that are passed on to the >> listeners. >> It also limits access to blind and partially blind people in poor >> countries, >> which cannot afford to make their own versions of everything from science >> textbooks to best-sellers, he said. >> >> The U.N. agency has been trying for six years to revamp its global >> copyright >> framework so that it better accounts for new media, such as audiobooks. >> For >> the blind and visually impaired, the goal is to create a clearinghouse so >> that published material can be traded around the world and translated >> into >> new, readable formats. >> >> But the problem of access for such copyrighted material goes to the heart >> of >> a growing crisis in the world of copyright protection, as the Internet >> increasingly muddies laws that were created for traditional media. >> Whereas >> wide exceptions exist for books in Braille, WIPO officials say there is >> confusion over how these benefits can be translated into the digital age. >> >> Proponents of a new agreement say the same benefits that digital books >> provide most consumers -- lower costs and better storage and >> accessibility -- should be extended to those with disabilities. The >> United >> States and European nations that export large amounts of published >> material >> are somewhat hesitant because of concerns over an erosion of intellectual >> property rights, and want to avoid a binding treaty. >> >> Wonder called for a compromise and teased the diplomats. >> >> ''Please work it out. Or I'll have to write a song about what you didn't >> do,'' said the 60-year-old singer known for such hits as ''Superstition'' >> and ''I Just Called to Say I Love You.'' >> >> Complicating the talks are the demands of African countries, which are >> seeking even larger copyright loopholes. They want their libraries and >> academic institutions to be able to skip licensing agreements so that >> they >> can provide audiobook access for larger communities. >> >> Wonder, who has sold tens of million of albums, said any agreement should >> respect the authors ''who labor to create the great works that enlighten >> and >> nourish our minds, hearts and souls.'' He insisted on a practical >> solution >> so that blind and visually impaired people get ''the tools to think their >> way out of poverty.'' >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Iavicp mailing list >> Iavicp at ultragroups.net >> http://ultragroups.net/mailman/listinfo/iavicp_ultragroups.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> acb-l mailing list >> acb-l at acb.org >> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/acb-l >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fcb-l mailing list >> fcb-l at acb.org >> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/fcb-l > > > The VR Stream list is configured so that when using Control-R in most > e-mail programs, message replies will go directly to the sender of the > message. To reply to the entire list, use the "reply all" function of your > e-mail program; usually > Control-Shift-R._______________________________________________ > Vrstream mailing list > Vrstream at vrstreamusers.org > http://vrstreamusers.org/mailman/listinfo/vrstream_vrstreamusers.org > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 03:54:05 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:54:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: <1853007160B7428BBC9FE48557FFB422@Dezman> The question I like to ask is "then how do you explain people with blindness and say hearing loss?" Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > Joe, > Were these nationally syndicated people? If so, who were they? > Because that makes me kind of jealous. > Anyways, when people say stuff like that I say something like "I > don't really think that's true. From my experience, my ears aren't > better than the average person's. I think I pay more attention to > what I hear more than most people, but my senses are just the same." > Of course, that's kind of long-winded and not always practical, but > there you have it. > > On 9/21/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News >> Channel >> personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and >> while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the >> anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only >> made >> sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I >> only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a >> brief, >> witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other >> senses >> are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not >> impressive. >> I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. >> >> My questions are these: >> >> 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? >> >> 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? >> >> Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If >> the >> anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more >> instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions >> accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where >> you >> want to be polite but informative. >> >> Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 04:17:44 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 00:17:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: <1853007160B7428BBC9FE48557FFB422@Dezman> References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> <1853007160B7428BBC9FE48557FFB422@Dezman> Message-ID: Hi All, I get that a lot. In fact, my roommate was telling me that I have this reputation on campus People tell her, Oh Mary, I hear that if she talks to you once she will always remember your voice. Which is a tota lie. But anyway. Usually I say something like, "I tend to listen better but I wouldn't say my hearing is better." Then, if there's time I'll make a funny comment about how I'm pretty sure I'm going deaf. Though in the big scheme of things, I don't think this is a misconception that is one of the worse. Though i wonder, if blind people have such amazing senses, why do people still think I can't walk on my own? I mean I can hear better, and smell better, so why couldn't i walk better? Lol. Mary On 9/21/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > The question I like to ask is "then how do you explain people with blindness > and say hearing loss?" > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > > >> Joe, >> Were these nationally syndicated people? If so, who were they? >> Because that makes me kind of jealous. >> Anyways, when people say stuff like that I say something like "I >> don't really think that's true. From my experience, my ears aren't >> better than the average person's. I think I pay more attention to >> what I hear more than most people, but my senses are just the same." >> Of course, that's kind of long-winded and not always practical, but >> there you have it. >> >> On 9/21/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News >>> Channel >>> personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and >>> while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the >>> anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only >>> made >>> sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I >>> only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a >>> brief, >>> witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other >>> senses >>> are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not >>> impressive. >>> I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. >>> >>> My questions are these: >>> >>> 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? >>> >>> 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? >>> >>> Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If >>> the >>> anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more >>> instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions >>> accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where >>> you >>> want to be polite but informative. >>> >>> Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 04:27:51 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:27:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: Like most others, I explain that it is all a matter of using my sense of hearing or touch, or my memory more often than the average person. Though, if you think about it, what is the difference between having an enhanced/heightened sense of hearing, and using your sense of hearing more effectively than the average person? No, I don't have an enhanced ability to run, I just trained really hard and became faster than most people. To me, there's something strange about that way of describing things. I sometimes think that in our effort to demonstrate that we are just like everyone else, there is a tendency to claim that the only difference between blind and sighted people is the ability to see. I agree that that is probably true for many blind people, but there is a fairly substantial body of research, research that I think some people too often tend to dismiss out of hand, that certain processes, I'm thinking particularly of language processing, do occur differently in the brains of blind people, particularly those who have been blind since birth. But wait, you protest, sighted people could have those abilities too; they are not inherent to blindness. That's true, any sighted person that went through her life relying exclusively on her hearing would develop the ability to discriminate between sounds that the average sighted person cannot distinguish. There is enough evidence now to demonstrate the plasticity of the brain, and it seems dogmatic, though perhaps politically expedient, to insist that blindness, even when it has been present from birth, does not result in certain heightened or enhanced abilities that are not possessed by the average sighted person. The stereotype of super-human hearing is a myth that ought to be challenged, but it seems equally wrong to me to insist that blindness makes no difference in one's ability to hear, to process language, to recall information, to discriminate better through touch, etc. The only reason for the diatribe, which is not directed at what anyone has said thus far, is that I have received the impression before, particularly in a previous discussion about blindness and identity, that some do hold the position that blindness makes no difference to one's ability to hear, process language, etc. Apologies, Joe, if this is too much of a digression from the original question, but you did say, all thoughts welcome. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:46 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > Dear all, > > Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News > Channel > personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and > while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the > anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only > made > sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I > only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a > brief, > witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other > senses > are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not > impressive. > I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. > > My questions are these: > > 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? > > 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? > > Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If > the > anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more > instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions > accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where > you > want to be polite but informative. > > Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 04:39:57 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 23:39:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: I do think the research can give insights into abilities in cognition, perception, etc in blind people rather than just taking for granted what we have been told or have explained to others for years. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > Like most others, I explain that it is all a matter of using my sense of > hearing or touch, or my memory more often than the average person. > > Though, if you think about it, what is the difference between having an > enhanced/heightened sense of hearing, and using your sense of hearing more > effectively than the average person? > > No, I don't have an enhanced ability to run, I just trained really hard > and became faster than most people. > > To me, there's something strange about that way of describing things. > > I sometimes think that in our effort to demonstrate that we are just like > everyone else, there is a tendency to claim that the only difference > between blind and sighted people is the ability to see. > > I agree that that is probably true for many blind people, but there is a > fairly substantial body of research, research that I think some people too > often tend to dismiss out of hand, that certain processes, I'm thinking > particularly of language processing, do occur differently in the brains of > blind people, particularly those who have been blind since birth. > > But wait, you protest, sighted people could have those abilities too; they > are not inherent to blindness. That's true, any sighted person that went > through her life relying exclusively on her hearing would develop the > ability to discriminate between sounds that the average sighted person > cannot distinguish. > > There is enough evidence now to demonstrate the plasticity of the brain, > and it seems dogmatic, though perhaps politically expedient, to insist > that blindness, even when it has been present from birth, does not result > in certain heightened or enhanced abilities that are not possessed by the > average sighted person. > > The stereotype of super-human hearing is a myth that ought to be > challenged, but it seems equally wrong to me to insist that blindness > makes no difference in one's ability to hear, to process language, to > recall information, to discriminate better through touch, etc. > > The only reason for the diatribe, which is not directed at what anyone has > said thus far, is that I have received the impression before, particularly > in a previous discussion about blindness and identity, that some do hold > the position that blindness makes no difference to one's ability to hear, > process language, etc. > > Apologies, Joe, if this is too much of a digression from the original > question, but you did say, all thoughts welcome. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:46 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > > >> Dear all, >> >> Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News >> Channel >> personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and >> while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the >> anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only >> made >> sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I >> only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a >> brief, >> witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other >> senses >> are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not >> impressive. >> I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. >> >> My questions are these: >> >> 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? >> >> 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? >> >> Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If >> the >> anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more >> instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions >> accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where >> you >> want to be polite but informative. >> >> Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From agrima at nbp.org Wed Sep 22 13:30:52 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 09:30:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New! Enter to win a luggage locator when you order "Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight Message-ID: Read on to learn how to enter our drawing to win a free luggage locator from National Braille Press! -Tony Grima, NBP Three years ago, Wendy David approached NBP with a book idea. "Every time I leave on another trip to some exotic location," says David, "blind friends and acquaintances pepper me with questions: 'How do you get around countries with no public transportation? How do you deal with different types and sizes of currency? How do you travel overseas with a guide dog? Who describes the unique sights to you?' I realize I could write a book that helps people decide where to go, when to go, and how best to get there. There are hundreds of accessible travel websites and social networks; people just don't know about them. I could include tips for navigating busy airports, sleeping overnight on trains, enjoying today's more comfortable bus lines, selecting a theme-based cruise, using accessible GPS, and more." And that's exactly what Wendy did. To our knowledge, "Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight" is the only book of its kind, dedicated to blind travelers. Here's what one reader had to say: "Hello Wendy. "This is just a short note to tell you how much I appreciated your book. It is full of wonderful suggestions! "I have done a great deal of travel -- some business when giving lectures in psychology and religion or when running for the U.S. House of Representatives, and some pleasure. Most of this travel was with sighted companions, staff, or my wife of 35 years. "Pam and I are planning to go to Bermuda in September and down the Nile in Egypt in November. Your book has inspired me to be somewhat more adventurous and independent on these trips-to-come. "So I come to my question. When a blind person goes to a swimming pool or the beach by him or herself, after swimming, how do you find your way back to the chair that has your clothes on it? I just ordered an electronic locator. Is this the time to use such a device? Your advice on this will be appreciated. "Thank you again for your remarkable book, packed with your highly developed common sense, your autonomous spirit, your sense of humor, and your creative vision. "Wendy, to many successful journeys in your future, "Rabbi Dennis G. Shulman, Ph.D. Clinical Psychologist/Psychoanalyst" Stay tuned for Wendy's answer in a future elist blast. Meanwhile, we are running a raffle to win an electronic locator - read all about it here: http://www.sightconnection.com/luggagelocator1.html Just order "Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight" in any format before October 15th, and you'll be entered to win one of four luggage locators. We'll draw 1 name each Monday for four weeks, starting September 27th. With this book, you can travel the world with confidence. Available in braille, eBraille, accessible PDF, and DAISY (text-to-speech audio). Note: The PDF version of this book is fully accessible and hyperlink-enabled (there are over 200 online resources specifically geared to blind and disabled travelers). This is our "green" alternative to offering a print version of the book. You can purchase this and print it out, or read it on your computer. You can order "Sites Unseen" (for $19.95) from National Braille Press at: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/TRAVEL.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 13:39:36 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 09:39:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: Marc, On the contrary, I find your thoughts on the subject most engaging. I'm not likely to offer this line of thinking to the average inquirer, but with the right people and the right circumstances, I think it might be interesting to elaborate on the perceived abilities of blind people. In my own case, I won't deny it has become easier to, for example, pick out familiar voices in crowds and use a measure of echolocation in my travels, but I don't think my abilities are unique when compared to other blind people. And, to a certain extent I might feel compelled to downplay my abilities simply because what is unusual for someone else is completely commonplace for me. Interesting feedback, and I appreciate everyone's input. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman [mailto:mworkman.lists at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:28 AM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses Like most others, I explain that it is all a matter of using my sense of hearing or touch, or my memory more often than the average person. Though, if you think about it, what is the difference between having an enhanced/heightened sense of hearing, and using your sense of hearing more effectively than the average person? No, I don't have an enhanced ability to run, I just trained really hard and became faster than most people. To me, there's something strange about that way of describing things. I sometimes think that in our effort to demonstrate that we are just like everyone else, there is a tendency to claim that the only difference between blind and sighted people is the ability to see. I agree that that is probably true for many blind people, but there is a fairly substantial body of research, research that I think some people too often tend to dismiss out of hand, that certain processes, I'm thinking particularly of language processing, do occur differently in the brains of blind people, particularly those who have been blind since birth. But wait, you protest, sighted people could have those abilities too; they are not inherent to blindness. That's true, any sighted person that went through her life relying exclusively on her hearing would develop the ability to discriminate between sounds that the average sighted person cannot distinguish. There is enough evidence now to demonstrate the plasticity of the brain, and it seems dogmatic, though perhaps politically expedient, to insist that blindness, even when it has been present from birth, does not result in certain heightened or enhanced abilities that are not possessed by the average sighted person. The stereotype of super-human hearing is a myth that ought to be challenged, but it seems equally wrong to me to insist that blindness makes no difference in one's ability to hear, to process language, to recall information, to discriminate better through touch, etc. The only reason for the diatribe, which is not directed at what anyone has said thus far, is that I have received the impression before, particularly in a previous discussion about blindness and identity, that some do hold the position that blindness makes no difference to one's ability to hear, process language, etc. Apologies, Joe, if this is too much of a digression from the original question, but you did say, all thoughts welcome. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:46 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > Dear all, > > Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News > Channel > personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and > while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the > anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only > made > sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I > only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a > brief, > witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other > senses > are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not > impressive. > I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. > > My questions are these: > > 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? > > 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? > > Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If > the > anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more > instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions > accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where > you > want to be polite but informative. > > Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman .lists%40gmail.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 22 16:49:22 2010 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:49:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Classic for sale Message-ID: I'm posting the message below for a friend. *** Hey, everyone, I’m trying to sell an old BrailleNote Classic with a 6-key Braille-style keyboard that I used in my undergrad days, but haven’t touched in nearly 5 years. I want to get rid of the unit ASAP, but it’s in very usable condition, so it seems like a shame to just trash it. Please see the details below and email me atstacy.cervenka at gmail.com if you’re interested. Thanks. Braille Note BT Classic (with a Perkins-style Braille keyboard) Keysoft version 4.01 USB printer/scanner cord Telephone/modem cord Serial cable for a printer BrailleNote PC software Regular print user guide and command summary Large print command summary User’s guide is available electronically, as it is installed on the BrailleNote itself. Got it in 2001; used in until 2006; haven’t used it since. Some of the cells on the Braille display are a little bit sticky (a little bit slow in going down), but still very usable. Overall unit is in good condition, just outdated and used. $200 or best offer (includes shipping) Contact Stacy at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com From stacy.cervenka at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 16:50:07 2010 From: stacy.cervenka at gmail.com (Stacy Leigh Cervenka) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:50:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Used BrailleNote Classic $200 or Best Offer Message-ID: <25969AF3F0894196977A9DC641038D08@DJDSLY81> Hey, everyone, I'm trying to sell an old BrailleNote Classic with a 6-key Braille-style keyboard that I used in my undergrad days, but haven't touched in nearly 5 years. I want to get rid of the unit ASAP, but it's in very usable condition, so it seems like a shame to just trash it. Please see the details below and email me at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com if you're interested. Thanks. Braille Note BT Classic (with a Perkins-style Braille keyboard) Keysoft version 4.01 USB printer/scanner cord Telephone/modem cord Serial cable for a printer BrailleNote PC software Regular print user guide and command summary Large print command summary User's guide is available electronically, as it is installed on the BrailleNote itself. Got it in 2001; used in until 2006; haven't used it since. Some of the cells on the Braille display are a little bit sticky (a little bit slow in going down), but this isn't too noticeable. Overall unit is in good condition, just outdated and used. $200 or best offer (includes shipping) Contact Stacy at stacy.cervenka at gmail.com From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 17:49:05 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:49:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006901cb5a7e$744eede0$5cecc9a0$@com> I agree with those who have said that we do not have heightened senses, we just develop and use them to a greater degree. I generally try to explain that to people whenever possible. I think there is a point to what Mark brings to light with the running example. I would say that there is a distinction between abilities and capacities. I have a greater ability to use my hearing than do most people, but they, theoretically, have the capacity to develop the ability to do the same. We all have the same hardware, but some of us develop and refine our ability to utilize it beyond what is common; just as the long distance runner develops her ability to run through training. The thing that bothers me most about getting comments about my enhanced senses is not the failure to understand that my heightened ability to employ them comes from a heightened reliance on them and practice in using them to gather information, but rather that, often times, the comment about heightened senses carries the implication that the heightened senses are a gift from God, or the universe, or whatever, to compensate for the misfortune of being blind. That rubs me the wrong way for a number of reasons, not the least of which is a feeling that blindness, while certainly neither easy nor a positive in my life, is less of a misfortune than many people around the world endure, presumably without any wonderful consolation prize like enhanced sensory perception. Basically, I think some people want/need to believe that it is the case, in order to preserve their sense that the world is just and fair. Problem is, it isn't. Sorry if this only took us further off the beaten path. All the best, Sean From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 22 17:54:58 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:54:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] epub ebooks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would think there is -- but don't know off top of my head. Some Google searches might help -- and you might be able to use Internet Explorer to read xml file. Dave At 06:48 PM 9/19/2010, you wrote: >Ok David is there currently an application that will work with Jaws to read >the files? >I am sorry my question was not clear. >Thanks for the feedback. > > >Corey Cook >Email >ccook01 at knology.net >Facebook >ccook01 at knology.net >Skype >coreym821 > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of David Andrews >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:50 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] epub ebooks > >It is not a JAWS question... It depends on the application, or device >you use to read ePub books. JAWS by itself won't do it. It is like >JAWS by itself doesn't read PDF's, you need Acrobat Reader or another >application to display the files. > >Dave > >At 08:55 PM 9/18/2010, you wrote: > > >Hello all, > >I am wondering if anyone knows if jaws will work with a type of ebook >called > >ePub? > >I am looking to purchase a couples devotional study bible and the publisher > >sells it in ePub form. > >I know we can use adobe files but want to make sure of ePub before I spend > >my money. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From cbuckley at pdx.edu Wed Sep 22 18:06:40 2010 From: cbuckley at pdx.edu (Chrys Buckley) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:06:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games Message-ID: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu> Hi NABS list, Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a good model. So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's Youth Slam! Thanks, Chrys http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 19:38:36 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:38:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: <006901cb5a7e$744eede0$5cecc9a0$@com> References: <006901cb5a7e$744eede0$5cecc9a0$@com> Message-ID: Hi all, Two points I would add: 1. There is a difference between sensory abilities and sensory skills. Sensory abilities are characteristics of a species that have a variable but limited range, such as visual acuity or whatever the equivalent is for hearing, smell, touch, etc. Human beings can only get so good at seeing, hearing, etc. Sensory skills, by contrast, are abilities to perceive or discriminate specific stimuli through practice. Braille is a good example of this; through training, blind people can learn to discriminate Braille dots by touch, but I don't think that necessarily means that they are more sensitive to all touch stimuli. Similarly, I might be able to differentiate traffic patterns by hearing when I am specifically paying attention because I was taught this skill, but that doesn't mean I can tell what type of car is driving by through listening to its engine, because that's an auditory skill I haven't practiced. A sighted person can learn these and other sensory skills, too, assuming their senses are in the normal human ability range, but sighted people usually aren't motivated to do so because the equivalent visual skills are more readily applicable (i.e. they learn to discriminate print letters instead of Braille because print is more widely available, and they look at traffic signals because this information is more intuitive and accurate than listening). 2. Blind people, like sighted people, aren't all the same. Some can hear, smell or feel better than others, for a wide variety of reasons having nothing to do with blindness. Similarly, different blind people have different aptitudes at sensory skills based on individual differences and the quality of training they received. So claiming that we all have amazing senses is just as erroneous as saying all sighted people hear, smell, etc. at the same ability level. I agree that people might use these compensatory stereotypes to try to justify the fairness of the world. I also think people might rely on these beliefs to try to explain to themselves how people can be blind and still successfully participate in life. They are right in that we need to use our other senses to get things done, but they should be taught that it's the sensory skills, not innate sensory abilities, that help us adapt to blindness. Arielle On 9/22/10, Sean Whalen wrote: > I agree with those who have said that we do not have heightened senses, we > just develop and use them to a greater degree. I generally try to explain > that to people whenever possible. > > I think there is a point to what Mark brings to light with the running > example. I would say that there is a distinction between abilities and > capacities. I have a greater ability to use my hearing than do most people, > but they, theoretically, have the capacity to develop the ability to do the > same. We all have the same hardware, but some of us develop and refine our > ability to utilize it beyond what is common; just as the long distance > runner develops her ability to run through training. > > The thing that bothers me most about getting comments about my enhanced > senses is not the failure to understand that my heightened ability to employ > them comes from a heightened reliance on them and practice in using them to > gather information, but rather that, often times, the comment about > heightened senses carries the implication that the heightened senses are a > gift from God, or the universe, or whatever, to compensate for the > misfortune of being blind. That rubs me the wrong way for a number of > reasons, not the least of which is a feeling that blindness, while certainly > neither easy nor a positive in my life, is less of a misfortune than many > people around the world endure, presumably without any wonderful consolation > prize like enhanced sensory perception. Basically, I think some people > want/need to believe that it is the case, in order to preserve their sense > that the world is just and fair. Problem is, it isn't. > > Sorry if this only took us further off the beaten path. > > All the best, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 22 20:55:56 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 15:55:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Jobs] Urgent need to fill 3 positions in Rockville, MD Message-ID: > >National Industries for the Blind and the Columbia Lighthouse for >the Blind are seeking three legally blind, experienced, >highly-motivated Oracle Enterprise Help Desk service representatives >to begin work on a contract in Rockville, MD in October 2010. >Responsibilities will be to provide the following support on the contract: > * Reviewing customer information via Oracle Financials I-Store, > I-Receivables, and Applet-Based Oracle Forms > * Helpdesk coverage occurs Monday - Friday 7am to 7 pm Eastern Time; > * Responding to both telephone and email inquiries; > * Tracking help desk tickets in the HP Service Center 6.1 > * Trouble shooting system issues. > >Required skills and experience: > * Proficiency in Oracle software and enterprise help desk > experience a must. > * High School degree or GED equivalent required (Some college preferred) > * Proficient with basic and advanced functionality of assistive > technology, specifically JAWS and/or ZoomText > * Must be able to work in a fast-paced environment with > demonstrated ability to juggle and prioritize multiple, competing > tasks and demands. > * Must have excellent administrative skills. > * Must have excellent written and verbal communication skills. > * Must be willing to learn new methods of supporting end-users. > * Must be punctual and reliable and can work independently > * Proficient with data entry > * Positive attitude with a pleasant and clear phone demeanor > * Works well with team members and other departments > > >If you wish to be considered please send your resume and three >professional references to Sarah Schraven at >sschraven at nib.org. Please be prepared to >provide proof of legal blindness. > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 21:58:46 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:58:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: I think our other senses are just as good or bad as everyone else's, but we use them more and more often, which in practice makes it seem as though they are better. It doesn't really matter if the actual senses are better or not. What's clear is that if one has been blind for a long time (even more if one has been blind since birth) he/she develops other senses more than others, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are any better. I also think that my sense of smell is particularly terrible. I just never use it for anything useful. If I think of a sighted person using hearing just like I use my sense of smell, I can totally understand why they think that I hear better than them. I guess the older the person gets, the harder it is to further develop senses. And this is just a guess, because I'm not really sure about it. Ignasi On Sep 21, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Dear all, > > Today I had the rare privilege to meet some of my favorite Fox News Channel > personalities. One of my friends from judo practice made it happen, and > while we were telling one of the anchors about how we'd met, she, the > anchor, said judo must not come all that difficult for me since it only made > sense that with the loss of sight, my other senses would be enhanced. I > only consider myself a somewhat average judoka, but I did not have a brief, > witty comment to educate her on my reality that my hearing and other senses > are similarly average. My sense of smell is most definitely not impressive. > I had too many questions of her to bother correcting the misperception. > > My questions are these: > > 1. Do you feel that blindness has enhanced your other senses? > > 2. How do you generally field remarks like these? > > Under normal circumstances I would have more time to educate people. If the > anchor in question weren't one of my favorites, I may have taken a more > instructive tone, but in general I want to answer such perceptions > accurately and succinctly. Church is another one of those venues where you > want to be polite but informative. > > Anyway, all thoughts welcomed. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From th404 at comcast.net Thu Sep 23 01:12:05 2010 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:12:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Environmental Science Course Revisited Message-ID: <55145AEC7195438CA19D793B94E894D5@userbafffee1fc> I've had an opportunity to meet with the instructor for the Environmental Science course I'll be taking at my local community college. During the meeting, we discussed the nature of some of the lab work. >From this meeting, we concluded that I'll probably be facing several challenges, for which I'd like some suggestions. 1. Field work: There will be at least one lab session where we'll be working in the field and collecting data. If you've participated in labs like this, what have you done to ensure that you're not on the sidelines, but fully involved in the activities? 2. Microscope work: I've learned that at least one of the labs will involve using a microscope. How have you handled this challenge? 3. Graphs: Graphs, both creating and interpreting them, have never been one of my strengths. If you've either created or interpreted graphs, how have you done it? What tools have worked, and what didn't? I'm interested in hearing about both low and high tech solutions to these problems. By the way, I'm doing this to finish a General Studies degree, and don't plan to go on to a university. Yet, I'm open to any suggestions on what I might do to fully take advantage of this course. Thanks. From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 03:47:41 2010 From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 23:47:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Exam$ software and law school exams Message-ID: Good evening everyone! I am looking for some advice concerning law school exams. If anyone has any thoughts on my question, i would greatly appreciate hearing them. I am in my first year of law school. I currently use a Dell Latitutde with Windows 7, and ZoomText for magnification and reading. I will have to use the software Exam4 for my upcoming exams. I have heard that this software will likely prevent ZoomText (and possibly the built-in Windows magnification program) from working if I attempt to use them during an exam. I havent actually tested the problem with the tech guys at the school because I need to get a Zoomtext license and right now don't have Zoomtext on my laptop. Does anyone have experience with this Exam4 software, and is a user of ZoomText? What did you do to get around this (alleged) problem? Any ideas, again, are welcome. Thanks, Kate -- Kathryn CARROLL St. John's University College of Law 2013 631-521-318 C From empower at smart.net Thu Sep 23 03:55:19 2010 From: empower at smart.net (Jamal Mazrui) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:55:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Public comments sought on mobile phone accessibility issues Message-ID: From the archive at http://EmpowermentZone.com/blv255.zip This archive contains material in plain text format to aid anyone interested in submitting comments to the Federal Communications Commission regarding accessibility of cell and other phone technologies to people who are blind, deaf-blind, or have low vision, in furtherance of Section 255 of the Communications Act. Such comments are due by the end of Thursday, September 30, 2010. Initial comments have already been filed, and currently, a reply comment period is underway. The files have been named to indicate their content, usually with the title of the document or a shortened version of it. They were converted from .doc or .pdf formats to text using Microsoft Word or Adobe Reader. Initial comments, already filed in this proceeding, begin with the words "Comments by." To provide background and context, other documents related to FCC policies about wireless or wireline phones are also included, such as public notices, press releases, fact sheets, reports, and regulations. The public notice seeking comment in this proceeding is contained in the following file: Public notice on FCC Seeks Comment on Accessible Mobile Phone Options for People who are Blind, Deaf-blind, or Have Low Vision.txt Comments may be filed using the web form of the FCC's Electronic Comment Filing System (ECFS), located at http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/ A web form on that page allows one to upload a word processor document, e.g., in Microsoft Word format. Comments may also be typed or pasted into a simpler web form called ECFS Express, located at http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs2/hotdocket/list At the prompt for the docket, input CG Docket No. 10-145 Comments may be of any length and address any relevant issue. They will affect how the FCC handles government responsibilities in this area. From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 06:40:47 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:40:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: References: <006901cb5a7e$744eede0$5cecc9a0$@com> Message-ID: <8F4EEB7091A84099995C36AE22B1E73A@MarcPC> I'm currently planning on doing some work on the philosophy of perception as part of my philosophy of mind comprehensive exam next semester. I find this stuff incredibly interesting, and not just with respect to its relation to blindness. I'm totally on board with the ideas that have been put forward to explain why people might have this particular, and very widely held, misconception: 1, we must receive some sort of compensation for the horible tragedy we've undergone, 2, of course we have special abilities, or how else would we succeed in the world. That seems right to me. I'm less sure I'm on board with the distinctions introduced to make sense of the misconception: 1, abilities and capacities, and 2, sensory abilities and sensory skills. The way I understand the difference between abilities and capacities is as equivalent to the meaning of can and could. I can run a hundred metres in less than 15 seconds is not the same as saying I could run a hundred metres in 15 seconds. The former suggests I can do it right now; it's currently within my powers to do this. The latter, on the other hand, allows for the possibility that I cannot perform the task at this moment, but I would be able to if I, say, spent the next two years training three times a week. I take it that the point is that some blind people may, I stress may, possess certain abilities not possessed by the average sighted person, but the average sighted person possesses the capacities to develop the abilities that some blind people possess. This doesn't seem entirely right to me. There is, however, a sense in which it is true. Suppose that some abilities are only acquired if sight is absent from birth. This might occur because parts of the brain normally devoted to the processing of visual information are available to be taken up in the processing of other sensory information. There is also evidence that people who are blind from birth, not all such people , but a statistically significant percentage, can discriminate auditory stimuli that sighted people cannot. It's perhaps true that, if a person capable of seeing spent her entire life without using her ability to see, thereby freeing up the visual processing area of the brain, she might develop the ability to discriminate auditory stimuli as well as a person that is blind from birth, but I contend that she could no longer be considered sighted in any meaningful sense of the word. She would be functionally blind. See the book, Crashing Through, a book about a man named Mike May who has some sight restored at the age of 43 after being completely blind since the age of 3 if you want a better sense of why I say the sighted person who never used her ability to see would actually be blind. The point of all of this is that I think some abilities that blind people possess, namely, all those abilities that only arise as a result of very early onset and long lasting blindness, are abilities that sighted people do not have the capacity to possess. If this is right, then some blind people can do things that sighted people cannot, and could not, do, and I think this is all that is meant by the misconception that blind people have heightened senses. I would say more about the sensory ability-sensory skill distinction, but this is running long, so I'll try to be brief. 1. I agree that developing one ability, the ability to distinguish braille writing through touch for example, does not necessarily imply a better sense of touch more generally. But perhaps I think these abilities are more adaptable than others do. A blind person might not be able to tell the make of a car by its engine sound, but if she happened to have been blind from birth, and she sat down with a sighted person, and the two of them worked equally hard on trying to learn how to tell the make of a car through its engine sound, my money would be on the blind person to be better able to do this. Sure, I'd lose this bet occasionally, but I think I'd be right in the long run. This is because developing an ability to use a sense in a particular way, at the very least, contributes to one's overall ability to use the sense in other ways. 2. Arielle said, they should be taught that it's the sensory skills, not innate sensory abilities, that help us adapt to blindness. If sensory abilities are "characteristics of a species that have a variable but limited range", then I don't think the misconception is that blind people have innate sensory abilities that differ from those of sighted people. It's not that blind people possess different senses, or that blind people possess abilities that lie beyond the limits set by the species homo sapien. Perhaps more precisely, it doesn't *have* to be these things. It might just be, as I have suggested, that some blind people possess abilities and capacities that could not be possessed by sighted people, and that this is all that is meant by the notion that blind people have heightened senses. The misconception can have negative consequences, and it is often attributed to all blind people, and it should be challenged through education. I'm only suggesting that it might not be completely, entirely, absolutely without any kernel of truth whatsoever. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses > Hi all, > > Two points I would add: > 1. There is a difference between sensory abilities and sensory skills. > Sensory abilities are characteristics of a species that have a > variable but limited range, such as visual acuity or whatever the > equivalent is for hearing, smell, touch, etc. Human beings can only > get so good at seeing, hearing, etc. Sensory skills, by contrast, are > abilities to perceive or discriminate specific stimuli through > practice. Braille is a good example of this; through training, blind > people can learn to discriminate Braille dots by touch, but I don't > think that necessarily means that they are more sensitive to all touch > stimuli. Similarly, I might be able to differentiate traffic patterns > by hearing when I am specifically paying attention because I was > taught this skill, but that doesn't mean I can tell what type of car > is driving by through listening to its engine, because that's an > auditory skill I haven't practiced. A sighted person can learn these > and other sensory skills, too, assuming their senses are in the normal > human ability range, but sighted people usually aren't motivated to do > so because the equivalent visual skills are more readily applicable > (i.e. they learn to discriminate print letters instead of Braille > because print is more widely available, and they look at traffic > signals because this information is more intuitive and accurate than > listening). > > 2. Blind people, like sighted people, aren't all the same. Some can > hear, smell or feel better than others, for a wide variety of reasons > having nothing to do with blindness. Similarly, different blind people > have different aptitudes at sensory skills based on individual > differences and the quality of training they received. So claiming > that we all have amazing senses is just as erroneous as saying all > sighted people hear, smell, etc. at the same ability level. > > I agree that people might use these compensatory stereotypes to try to > justify the fairness of the world. I also think people might rely on > these beliefs to try to explain to themselves how people can be blind > and still successfully participate in life. They are right in that we > need to use our other senses to get things done, but they should be > taught that it's the sensory skills, not innate sensory abilities, > that help us adapt to blindness. > > Arielle > > On 9/22/10, Sean Whalen wrote: >> I agree with those who have said that we do not have heightened senses, >> we >> just develop and use them to a greater degree. I generally try to explain >> that to people whenever possible. >> >> I think there is a point to what Mark brings to light with the running >> example. I would say that there is a distinction between abilities and >> capacities. I have a greater ability to use my hearing than do most >> people, >> but they, theoretically, have the capacity to develop the ability to do >> the >> same. We all have the same hardware, but some of us develop and refine >> our >> ability to utilize it beyond what is common; just as the long distance >> runner develops her ability to run through training. >> >> The thing that bothers me most about getting comments about my enhanced >> senses is not the failure to understand that my heightened ability to >> employ >> them comes from a heightened reliance on them and practice in using them >> to >> gather information, but rather that, often times, the comment about >> heightened senses carries the implication that the heightened senses are >> a >> gift from God, or the universe, or whatever, to compensate for the >> misfortune of being blind. That rubs me the wrong way for a number of >> reasons, not the least of which is a feeling that blindness, while >> certainly >> neither easy nor a positive in my life, is less of a misfortune than many >> people around the world endure, presumably without any wonderful >> consolation >> prize like enhanced sensory perception. Basically, I think some people >> want/need to believe that it is the case, in order to preserve their >> sense >> that the world is just and fair. Problem is, it isn't. >> >> Sorry if this only took us further off the beaten path. >> >> All the best, >> >> Sean >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 23 17:22:47 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:22:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Art_beyond_sight_learning_tools] Color Identifier and IPhone Message-ID: >From: Lisa Yayla >To: "'accessibleimage at freelists.org'" >, 'Access to Art Museums' > , 'Art Beyond Sight Educators List' > , 'Art Beyond > Sight Theory and Research' > , > "'art_beyond_sight_advocacy at nfbnet.org'" > , > "'art_beyond_sight_learning_tools at nfbnet.org'" > >Subject: [Art_beyond_sight_learning_tools] Color Identifier and Iphone > >Hi, > >A really interesting blog with a review about Iphone and >accessibility. Excerpt following about an application for Iphone >called Color Identifier. > >Whole article at >http://behindthecurtain.us/2010/06/12/my-first-week-with-the-iphone/ > >Regards, > >Lisa >The other night, however, a very amazing thing happened. I >downloaded an app called Color >Identifier. >It uses the iPhone's camera, and speaks names of colors. It must use >a table, because each color has an identifier made up of 6 >hexadecimal digits. This puts the total at 16777216 colors, and I >believe it. Some of them have very surreal names, such as Atomic >Orange, Cosmic, Hippie Green, Opium, and Black-White. These names in >combination with what feels like a rise in serotonin levels makes >for a very psychedelic experience. >I have never experienced this before in my life. I can see some >light and color, but just in blurs, and objects don't really have a >color, just light sources. When I first tried it at three o'clock in >the morning, I couldn't figure out why it just reported black. After >realizing that the screen curtain also disables the camera, I turned >it off, but it still have very dark colors. Then I remembered that >you actually need light to see, and it probably couldn't see much at >night. I thought about light sources, and my interview I did for Get >Lamp. First, I saw one of my beautiful salt >lamps in its various shades of orange, another with its pink and >rose colors, and the third kind in glowing pink and red.. I felt stunned. >The next day, I went outside. I looked at the sky. I heard colors >such as "Horizon," "Outer Space," and many shades of blue and gray. >I used color cues to find my pumpkin plants, by looking for the >green among the brown and stone. I spent ten minutes looking at my >pumpkin plants, with their leaves of green and lemon-ginger. I then >roamed my yard, and saw a blue flower. I then found the brown shed, >and returned to the gray house. My mind felt blown. I watched the >sun set, listening to the colors change as the sky darkened. The >next night, I had a conversation with Mom about how the sky looked >bluer tonight. Since I can see some light and color, I think hearing >the color names can help nudge my perception, and enhance my visual >experience. Amazing! >I love my iPhone. It changed my universe as soon as it entered it. >However, as any Discordian knows, every golden Apple has a golden >worm at its center. > > > > >-Scanned by Exchange Hosted Services- David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 17:28:57 2010 From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 13:28:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? In-Reply-To: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> References: <005701cb568b$a58104d0$f0830e70$@net> Message-ID: I am sorry this message is late to the list, but I have been having trouble with my email and it not letting me reply. This is a topic I know well and have had many discussions about it with friends both sighted and blind. I as well as my sighted friends have noticed that most all blind people are generally more stiff than sighted people. I am not meaning this as an insult but there is a degree of unnaturalness to the way most blind people move especially those who have Benn blind from birth. I myself was slightly stiff and my sister would try to explain how to look more natural. It just didn't make since to me. How could I look unnatural when I was moving in a natural way to me. I felt more unnatural moving the way she told me to move it felt foreign. But in tenth grade I joined the dance team at my school. We competed in modern, hip-hop, Swing, classic and latten ballroom. All of which helped, but the latten ball room helped the most. At first like anyone learning dance for the first time it felt unnatural and forced as you have to think about the steps and movement as well as the positioning of each part of your body. This is true for sighted people as well. However eventually muscle memory takes over, and you don't have to think about the movement, the longer I danced the more it felt natural. And the more it felt natural to dance the more I realized what people meant when they said I was stiff. I felt it myself and the dancing helped my everyday movement. I am not saying I now move my hips in the way one does for a salsa when I walk, but I feel the looseness of my muscles and how I should move. Most people can't tell I am blind if they don't see my cane. Swing was also a big help as all the movements are exaggerated, and cartoonish. You probably are wondering how that helps me to look natural, it is the way it loosens your muscles and helps you to feel exaggeration so you know what it feels like. because I think a lot of blind people are afraid to do what would be considered normal for fear of looking to exaggerated. If you can feel exaggerated movement you can better know what is not. I know this is different than for the stage where you want to look exadurated but this is for every day life. Many sighted people can tell a person is blind even if they have no cane and know exactly where they are going, because they are just to stiff even if it is just a little stiff it is their. I recommend dance for anyone who wishes to look more natural, and don't think because you don't feel like you move unnatural you arnt stiff because I thought my sister was being to critical and she was write. It is something you have to feel for yourself. I am not saying all blind people are this way I know many who are not and I don't know if you are or not, but I have notice most blind people are at least who I have met. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:13 PM To: "Jim" Subject: [nabs-l] Can a person's movement be affected by blindness? > Hello everyone, > > > > I know this topic might have been briefly brought up by me in the > Blindtalk > (August 2008 forum). I've asked questions of a similar nature, but I > think > this goes a bit deeper. If we've talked about this before, please forgive > me. I hope this will spark some good discussion. I also hope to hear > from > folks with all degrees of blindness, especially from those who have been > totally blind for a long time, or since birth. This issue is beginning to > affect me enough to want to try doing something about it. Perhaps as a > precursor, go through the archives and look at a question I sent back in > August of 2008 dealing with extra hands on for the congenitally blind. > This > goes one or two steps beyond my initial questions. > > > > As many of you know, I've been blind since birth. I think I was raised > pretty normally. From what I was told, it had been recommended to my mom > that as a baby that I go see a kids' physical therapist to help get me to > move a bit more and a bit more freely. More than anything, she helped > solidify the whole "up/down and left/right" concepts, among other things. > That was fine, and I was up and about as any other kid was. The whole > blindism thing was also nipped in the bud at a very young age as well. In > fact, it might have been nipped too well, because to this day, even when > I'm > totally relaxed, I am generally one who sits quite still. I can still > remember my family telling me to sit or stand still when we'd be at other > people's homes, stores, or other places where I was in public. I wasn't > the > type to really get in trouble for running around places and causing > mischief > in that way. While I played outside in my home area, I don't ever really > remember getting into trouble by just going off and exploring and > terrorizing other areas the way little kids I know would have done. I was > pretty peaceful and content. My thing was always trying to look good and > fit in with the regular crowd. > > > > I never really thought about any of that kind of thing until recently. I > find myself on stage more and more, performing and playing music either by > myself or with two other friends. I've begun hearing advice such as, "You > need to look like you're enjoying what you're doing.", or "I wonder how we > can get you to be more animated and move a little bit so that you're not > stoic." One newspaper article recently described me as being > "statuesque." > In fact, I might post that small blurb, because it is suggesting that the > reason for my way of being deals with blindness. > > > > "Also, they brought along a friend, Jim Portillo, that played an > intriguing > electric bass ukulele with strings made of polyurethane, which gave it a > resonance like rubber, very rich sound for such a small instrument. > Besides > perfect licks, he had a great classic, statue-like stance of a bluegrass > bassist, never wavering, and then later, it was revealed he was blind and > had only been playing a few weeks." > > > > > > I once took a class on stage craft, and one of the things folks liked > about > my image the most was my smile. I am told that a lot lately.use the > smile. > I do, but once I'm on stage, I get so focused on what I'm doing that I end > up forgetting or simply not doing these things that really are attractive > to > a visual audience. How do blind people get more into the visual aspects > of > things? Of course I'm enjoying what I'm doing. There's no greater love > for > me than to play music with my two best friends. > > > > So, here are some questions now that you know my background. Is a > person's > natural movement or lack thereof affected by blindness in any way? How do > totally blind people learn about movement, expression, etc without looking > forced or mechanical? I have given up trying to dance because as a kid, I > was always told, "Oh, you look like a little robot, pretty mechanical." > How > does one differentiate between what may look like a blindism from natural > and free-flowing movement? If my friend tells me to feel free to swing > and > sway as I play, how do I do it without looking like a Ray Charles or > Stevie > Wonder? Are these valid concerns or things that can or should possibly be > overcome to some degree, and if so, how? Maybe I'm either too > self-conscious or perhaps I'm not totally aware of what some of these > "free > forms of movement and expressions" are? I don't know. I'm inclined to > believe that sighted people learn by watching and imitation. In my case, > unless someone literally shows me what to do and puts my body through the > motions, my interpretations may be different from what they're asking me > to > do. And, I'm to the point now in what I do where I don't wish to look > foolish or stand out in the wrong way. > > > > The good thing about all of this is that I have a whole lot of other > things > going for me. I do well behind a microphone in that I'm a good MC and > public speaker. I'm a good promoter and can get my message across to > folks. > And, when I'm on stage, I deliver a good sounding performance. > > My friends have been great ones and very honest with me about things. I > now > know that I probably stand out a bit more by not doing anything or moving. > Interesting, huh? Now, if I begin working on this, I also want to look > natural and not fake. I don't want to look like I've memorized a formula > for movement, especially to various songs. It's Folk music, right? > > > > I look forward to a good discussion that will hopefully challenge me to go > further and see what happens. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 22:16:24 2010 From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:16:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1><6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to redirect it back to a positive to the world? Blind chef gains national acclaim local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end the quad-city times FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO Blind chef gains national acclaim Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable grater. She isn't afraid of getting cut. She never does, Martinez says. Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline softly says. "It has ridges." The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of touch to make sure the parsley is lined up just right. Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is one. Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive gourmet restaurant in Chicago. She also happens to be blind. Fast learner gets inspiration When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. She wanted to become a surgeon someday. "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is what caused her blindness. Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her active imagination instead. She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or special education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a three-hour car ride away. So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal education at the age of 10. Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. The two spent every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain very close. McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and other people who overcame life's challenges. Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different skin colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at school. Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do anything. But I don't give up." McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for her, Martinez said. She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for the blind. She took community college classes. She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a little like surgery. Why not give it a try? Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the challenge. "I don't give up," she said. Culinary school brings challenges Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but not everyone graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is tough. So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The school had never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could present the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way that would accommodate her. He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking at home. "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus via the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She just has that delicate way with a knife." "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in Braille. Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of smell to figure out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat and other dishes are done. Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and feeding it into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where and what to cut, Martinez said. "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." An article about the school's first blind student was published in the Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to feature her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her some advice. What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, least of all Martinez. "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen and the restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. "Where's the salt?" she asked. Still dreaming Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in Moline. She is lost because her family recently remodeled. "Where is the trash can?" she asks. She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she says, for food safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that she cooks a lot. Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an old favorite. For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give it some kick, she said. She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place La Diosa, which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," she added. "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jewel S." Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > Hi, > > I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do > not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who > knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with > me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance > primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral > vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss > with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at > head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my > cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front > of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the > light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is > not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > > I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the > route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, > I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor > memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in > charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, > and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. > I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > > Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same > time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot > me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to > put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a > guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor > would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my > cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better > be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so > I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should > need it, but I put my trust in him. > > ~Jewel > > On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >> started learning how to use the cane. >> >> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >> time I >> was about five. >> >> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >> take >> it from you." >> >> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >> >> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >> since. >> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>> has >>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >>> us >>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>> to >>> >>> use it can serve two purposes: >>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>> mind >>> >>> to let us know. >>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>> it >>> >>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>> email: >>> Is >>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>> know >>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>> while >>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when >>> I >>> >>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>> held >>> >>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>> out >>> >>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>> conflict >>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>> and >>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>> blind >>> >>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >>> me >>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>> people >>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>> know >>> in >>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>> advanced >>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >>> be >>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>> might >>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>> brought >>> >>> on recently. >>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > From MRiccobono at nfb.org Thu Sep 23 22:25:20 2010 From: MRiccobono at nfb.org (Riccobono, Mark) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 17:25:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Leadership Consortium in Sensory Disabilities - Accepting Applications Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: NCLVI Public Advisory Discussion List [mailto:NCLVI_ADVISORY at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tina Fitzpatrick Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:21 PM To: NCLVI_ADVISORY at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Fwd: National Leadership Consortium in Sensory Disabilities - Accepting Applications Dear Colleagues, We are delighted to inform you that we are now accepting applications for entry into the final cohort of the National Leadership Consortium in Sensory Disabilities. This is a four-year doctoral fellowship for students in participating consortium universities. The application will be open until December 31, 2010. Please see the attached announcement and distribute widely. For more information, visit our website: http://www.salus.edu/nlcsd/index.html Sincerely, Brooke Brooke C. Smith, Ph.D. Director, Professional Preparation Program for Teachers of Children with Visual and Multiple Disabilities College of Education and Rehabilitation Salus University 8360 Old York Road Elkins Park, PA 19027-1598 (215) 780-1502 (215) 780-1357 (fax) bsmith at salus.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2010 NLCSD announcementr.doc Type: application/msword Size: 210432 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 23 23:10:26 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:10:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1><6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <197a01cb5b74$828b1cc0$6601a8c0@server> Hello Andy, I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are ever going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness is a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its proponent is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and this article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could never get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. Happy cooking, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andi" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > > Blind chef gains national acclaim > local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame > local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end > the quad-city times > > FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > > Blind chef gains national acclaim > > Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > > Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop > the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable > grater. > > She isn't afraid of getting cut. > > She never does, Martinez says. > > Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > > "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline > softly says. "It has ridges." > > The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining > that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > > But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels > around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of > touch to make > sure the parsley is lined up just right. > > Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with > the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is > one. > > Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive > gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > > She also happens to be blind. > > Fast learner gets inspiration > > When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from > anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. > > She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > > "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > > When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal > blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is > what caused > her blindness. > > Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat > the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > > Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > > In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her > active imagination instead. > > She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early > childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or > special > education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a > three-hour car ride away. > > So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English > or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal > education at the > age of 10. > > Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached > Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. > The two spent > every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain > very close. > > McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations > and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and > other people > who overcame life's challenges. > > Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. > > McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, > shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different > skin > colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at > school. > > Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told > her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > > "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do > anything. But I don't give up." > > McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for > her, Martinez said. > > She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for > the blind. She took community college classes. > > She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > > Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a > little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > > Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > > convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the > challenge. > > "I don't give up," she said. > > Culinary school brings challenges > > Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an > open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but > not everyone > graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice > president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is > tough. > > So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to > considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The > school had > never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > > Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact > the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could > present > the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way > that would accommodate her. > > He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of > working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking > at home. > > "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. > > After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to > become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus > via > the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > > "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it > is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She > just > has that delicate way with a knife." > > "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's > 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > > The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in > Braille. > > Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - > especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of > smell to figure > out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat > and other dishes are done. > > Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone > chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and > feeding it > into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel > the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where > and what > to cut, Martinez said. > > "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. > "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > > An article about the school's first blind student was published in the > Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to > feature > her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS > brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > > They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her > some advice. > > What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his > exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, > least of > all Martinez. > > "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > > Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said > Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > > passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he > utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > > Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began > working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen > and the > restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > > "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing > assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. > > She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the > right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > > "Where's the salt?" she asked. > > Still dreaming > > Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other > obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in > Moline. She is lost > because her family recently remodeled. > > "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > > She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she > does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she > says, for food > safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that > she cooks a lot. > > Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but > she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an > old favorite. > For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give > it some kick, she said. > > She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix > of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place > La Diosa, > which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > > To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > > Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," > she added. > > "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jewel S." > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >> Hi, >> >> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>> time I >>> was about five. >>> >>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>> take >>> it from you." >>> >>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>> >>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>> since. >>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>> has >>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>> alert >>>> us >>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>> to >>>> >>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>> mind >>>> >>>> to let us know. >>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>> it >>>> >>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>> email: >>>> Is >>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>> know >>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>> while >>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>> when I >>>> >>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>> held >>>> >>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>> out >>>> >>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>> conflict >>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>> and >>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>> blind >>>> >>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>> gives >>>> me >>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>> people >>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>> know >>>> in >>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>> advanced >>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>> to >>>> be >>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>> might >>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>> brought >>>> >>>> on recently. >>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 23:42:31 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 19:42:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <197a01cb5b74$828b1cc0$6601a8c0@server> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> <197a01cb5b74$828b1cc0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Hi, Andy, I agree with dennis. I think this article portrays the woman as a great blind role model, who utilizes various nonvisual techniques to perform successfully in a very competitive work environment. The article has a positive rather than patronizing tone, and it focuses on what this chef can accomplish, not what she lost as a result of blindness. I think it's safe to say that most sighted people would be very impressed by her achievements and feel much more confident about what blind people can do after reading this article. I'm not sure what causes your anger, but it is my opinion that this article contributes to the positive image of blind people. Katie On 9/23/10, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Andy, > I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my > opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are ever > going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness is > a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I > hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its proponent > is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is > ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those > not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and this > article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the > ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that > this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could never > get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. > Happy cooking, > Dennis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andi" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >>rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >>who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >>and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >>this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >> the quad-city times >> >> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >> grater. >> >> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >> She never does, Martinez says. >> >> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >> touch to make >> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >> one. >> >> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >> >> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >> She also happens to be blind. >> >> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >> >> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >> what caused >> her blindness. >> >> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >> >> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >> active imagination instead. >> >> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >> special >> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >> three-hour car ride away. >> >> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >> >> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >> education at the >> age of 10. >> >> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >> The two spent >> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >> very close. >> >> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >> other people >> who overcame life's challenges. >> >> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >> >> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >> >> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >> >> skin >> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >> school. >> >> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >> anything. But I don't give up." >> >> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >> her, Martinez said. >> >> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >> challenge. >> >> "I don't give up," she said. >> >> Culinary school brings challenges >> >> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >> >> not everyone >> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >> tough. >> >> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >> >> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >> school had >> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >> >> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >> >> present >> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >> that would accommodate her. >> >> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >> at home. >> >> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >> >> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >> >> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >> >> via >> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >> just >> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >> >> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >> Braille. >> >> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >> smell to figure >> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >> and other dishes are done. >> >> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >> >> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >> feeding it >> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >> and what >> to cut, Martinez said. >> >> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >> feature >> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >> some advice. >> >> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >> least of >> all Martinez. >> >> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >> and the >> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >> >> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >> >> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >> Still dreaming >> >> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >> Moline. She is lost >> because her family recently remodeled. >> >> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >> says, for food >> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >> she cooks a lot. >> >> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >> old favorite. >> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >> >> it some kick, she said. >> >> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >> >> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >> La Diosa, >> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >> she added. >> >> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jewel S." >> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>> time I >>>> was about five. >>>> >>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>> take >>>> it from you." >>>> >>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>> >>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>> since. >>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>> has >>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>> alert >>>>> us >>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>> mind >>>>> >>>>> to let us know. >>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>> >>>>> it >>>>> >>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>> email: >>>>> Is >>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>> know >>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>> while >>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>> when I >>>>> >>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>> held >>>>> >>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>> out >>>>> >>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>> conflict >>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>> and >>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>> blind >>>>> >>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>> gives >>>>> me >>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>> people >>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>> know >>>>> in >>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>> advanced >>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>> to >>>>> be >>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>> might >>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>> brought >>>>> >>>>> on recently. >>>>> Gerardo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 00:54:04 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:54:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> <197a01cb5b74$828b1cc0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: In my opinion, the first part of this article was very poorly written. Several phrases that are "no-no's" were used, including "overcomnig things like "without an ounce of fear" (as if chopping should be a scary thing for a chef), "everyone lived in darkness" (darkness is a misconception that should not be promoted), and "overcame life's challenges" as if blindness is a challenge to struggle through. But the writer does much better in the article after discussing her childhood. I think he did a great job of applauding Martinez' accomplishments in Chicago. The writing after the discussion of her childhood was well done in comparison to the first part, and I think it makes up for the poor wording of the first part. All in all, I think this author did a better job than many do. The first part of the article definitely could be written better, but most articles about people with visual impairments could be. I would not put my energy and emotion into this article. The author obviously tried to show how Martinez uses alternative techniques to do the same things everyone else does, but she is not doing something "normal" but extraordinary...I know chefs are not exactly rare, but good chefs can be hard to find before they become celebrities. Being the first blind student at the culinary school says something for her, also. It says she can self-advocate, that she can show people that she is has a disability, but it not disabled. I agree and disagree on this one...it could be re-written, but I've seen worse! My two cents, On 9/23/10, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi, Andy, > I agree with dennis. I think this article portrays the woman as a > great blind role model, who utilizes various nonvisual techniques to > perform successfully in a very competitive work environment. The > article has a positive rather than patronizing tone, and it focuses on > what this chef can accomplish, not what she lost as a result of > blindness. I think it's safe to say that most sighted people would be > very impressed by her achievements and feel much more confident about > what blind people can do after reading this article. I'm not sure what > causes your anger, but it is my opinion that this article contributes > to the positive image of blind people. > Katie > > On 9/23/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >> Hello Andy, >> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my >> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are >> ever >> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness >> is >> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I >> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is >> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those >> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and >> this >> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that >> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >> Happy cooking, >> Dennis >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andi" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>>angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >>>rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>>find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>>that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >>>who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >>>and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >>>this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>>redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times >>> >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. >>> >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >>> one. >>> >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>> >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>> >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. >>> >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>> >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. >>> >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>> >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. >>> >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >>> very close. >>> >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>> >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>> >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>> >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. >>> >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. >>> >>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>> but >>> >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. >>> >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came >>> to >>> >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>> >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>> >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. >>> >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>> >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" >>> to >>> >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>> >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>> >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>> >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. >>> >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. >>> >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>> >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>> the >>> >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>> Still dreaming >>> >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>> give >>> >>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>> mix >>> >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. >>> >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>> >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. >>>>> >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." >>>>> >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>> >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>> with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>> fine >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >>>>>> to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind >>>>>> >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I >>>>>> >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held >>>>>> >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>> the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>>> out >>>>>> >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>> hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought >>>>>> >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 01:06:32 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:06:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1><6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com><0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC><197a01cb5b74$828b1cc0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: I thought it was a surprisingly good article. One of the best from the mainstream media I've read. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Hi, Andy, > I agree with dennis. I think this article portrays the woman as a > great blind role model, who utilizes various nonvisual techniques to > perform successfully in a very competitive work environment. The > article has a positive rather than patronizing tone, and it focuses on > what this chef can accomplish, not what she lost as a result of > blindness. I think it's safe to say that most sighted people would be > very impressed by her achievements and feel much more confident about > what blind people can do after reading this article. I'm not sure what > causes your anger, but it is my opinion that this article contributes > to the positive image of blind people. > Katie > > On 9/23/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >> Hello Andy, >> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my >> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are >> ever >> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness >> is >> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I >> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is >> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and >> this >> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that >> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >> Happy cooking, >> Dennis >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andi" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>>angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>been >>>rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>>find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>>that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>someone >>>who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>blind >>>and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>about >>>this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>>redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times >>> >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>> atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. >>> >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>> is >>> one. >>> >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>> >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>> >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. >>> >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>> >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. >>> >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>> >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. >>> >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>> remain >>> very close. >>> >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>> >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>> >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>> >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. >>> >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>> do >>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>> for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. >>> >>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>> but >>> >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. >>> >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came >>> to >>> >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>> >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>> >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>> way >>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. >>> >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>> >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" >>> to >>> >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>> >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>> it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>> >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>> >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>> where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>> to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. >>> >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. >>> >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>> said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>> kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>> sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>> >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>> the >>> >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>> Still dreaming >>> >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>> but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>> give >>> >>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>> mix >>> >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. >>> >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>> >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. >>>>> >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>> I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." >>>>> >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>> >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>> with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>> fine >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >>>>>> to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind >>>>>> >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though >>>>>> I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I >>>>>> >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held >>>>>> >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>> the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>> them >>>>>> out >>>>>> >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>> hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought >>>>>> >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From brileyp at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 01:34:50 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:34:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1><6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say that she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" was a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to help her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, so go her. Briley On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: > i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > > Blind chef gains national acclaim > local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame > local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end > the quad-city times > > FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > > Blind chef gains national acclaim > > Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > > Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable grater. > > She isn't afraid of getting cut. > > She never does, Martinez says. > > Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > > "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline softly says. "It has ridges." > > The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > > But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of touch to make > sure the parsley is lined up just right. > > Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is one. > > Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > > She also happens to be blind. > > Fast learner gets inspiration > > When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. > > She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > > "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > > When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is what caused > her blindness. > > Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > > Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > > In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her active imagination instead. > > She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or special > education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a three-hour car ride away. > > So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal education at the > age of 10. > > Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. The two spent > every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain very close. > > McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and other people > who overcame life's challenges. > > Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. > > McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different skin > colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at school. > > Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > > "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do anything. But I don't give up." > > McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for her, Martinez said. > > She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for the blind. She took community college classes. > > She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > > Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > > Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > > convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the challenge. > > "I don't give up," she said. > > Culinary school brings challenges > > Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but not everyone > graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is tough. > > So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The school had > never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > > Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could present > the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way that would accommodate her. > > He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking at home. > > "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. > > After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus via > the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > > "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She just > has that delicate way with a knife." > > "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > > The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in Braille. > > Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of smell to figure > out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat and other dishes are done. > > Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and feeding it > into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where and what > to cut, Martinez said. > > "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > > An article about the school's first blind student was published in the Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to feature > her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > > They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her some advice. > > What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, least of > all Martinez. > > "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > > Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > > passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > > Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen and the > restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > > "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. > > She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > > "Where's the salt?" she asked. > > Still dreaming > > Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in Moline. She is lost > because her family recently remodeled. > > "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > > She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she says, for food > safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that she cooks a lot. > > Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an old favorite. > For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give it some kick, she said. > > She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place La Diosa, > which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > > To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > > Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," she added. > > "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jewel S." > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >> Hi, >> >> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the time I >>> was about five. >>> >>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll take >>> it from you." >>> >>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>> >>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>> since. >>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>> has >>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >>>> us >>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >>>> >>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >>>> >>>> to let us know. >>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >>>> >>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: >>>> Is >>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>> know >>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>> while >>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >>>> >>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >>>> >>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >>>> >>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>> conflict >>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>> and >>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >>>> >>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >>>> me >>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know >>>> in >>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>> advanced >>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >>>> be >>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >>>> >>>> on recently. >>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 01:43:46 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 21:43:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> <5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but anyway... Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here because of their re-arranging everything. Just a thought. On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: > I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say that > she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" was > a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to help > her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, so > go her. > > Briley > On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: > >> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >> the quad-city times >> >> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >> grater. >> >> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >> She never does, Martinez says. >> >> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >> touch to make >> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >> one. >> >> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >> She also happens to be blind. >> >> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >> >> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >> what caused >> her blindness. >> >> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >> active imagination instead. >> >> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >> special >> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >> three-hour car ride away. >> >> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >> education at the >> age of 10. >> >> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >> The two spent >> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >> very close. >> >> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >> other people >> who overcame life's challenges. >> >> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >> >> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >> skin >> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >> school. >> >> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >> anything. But I don't give up." >> >> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >> her, Martinez said. >> >> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >> challenge. >> >> "I don't give up," she said. >> >> Culinary school brings challenges >> >> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >> not everyone >> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >> tough. >> >> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >> school had >> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >> present >> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >> that would accommodate her. >> >> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >> at home. >> >> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >> >> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >> via >> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >> just >> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >> Braille. >> >> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >> smell to figure >> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >> and other dishes are done. >> >> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >> feeding it >> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >> and what >> to cut, Martinez said. >> >> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >> feature >> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >> some advice. >> >> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >> least of >> all Martinez. >> >> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >> and the >> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >> >> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >> Still dreaming >> >> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >> Moline. She is lost >> because her family recently remodeled. >> >> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >> says, for food >> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >> she cooks a lot. >> >> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >> old favorite. >> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >> it some kick, she said. >> >> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >> La Diosa, >> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >> she added. >> >> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jewel S." >> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>> time I >>>> was about five. >>>> >>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>> take >>>> it from you." >>>> >>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>> >>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>> since. >>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>> has >>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>> alert >>>>> us >>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>> mind >>>>> >>>>> to let us know. >>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>> it >>>>> >>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>> email: >>>>> Is >>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>> know >>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>> while >>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>> when I >>>>> >>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>> held >>>>> >>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>> out >>>>> >>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>> conflict >>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>> and >>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>> blind >>>>> >>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>> gives >>>>> me >>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>> people >>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>> know >>>>> in >>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>> advanced >>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>> to >>>>> be >>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>> might >>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>> brought >>>>> >>>>> on recently. >>>>> Gerardo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 01:48:46 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 19:48:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> <5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat sheltered upbringing. Arielle On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: > Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be > really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It > probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M > skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to > learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the > basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community > college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one > of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but > anyway... > > Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little > exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get > lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center > that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here > because of their re-arranging everything. > > Just a thought. > > On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say >> that >> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" >> was >> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to help >> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, so >> go her. >> >> Briley >> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >> >>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>> been >>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>> someone >>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>> blind >>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>> about >>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times >>> >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. >>> >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >>> one. >>> >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>> >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. >>> >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. >>> >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. >>> >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >>> very close. >>> >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>> >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. >>> >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. >>> >>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>> but >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. >>> >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came >>> to >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. >>> >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>> >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" >>> to >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. >>> >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. >>> >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>> >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>> the >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>> Still dreaming >>> >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>> give >>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>> mix >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. >>> >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>> >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. >>>>> >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." >>>>> >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>> >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>> with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>> fine >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >>>>>> to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind >>>>>> >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>> make >>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I >>>>>> >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held >>>>>> >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>> the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>>> out >>>>>> >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>> hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought >>>>>> >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From brileyp at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 01:49:11 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:49:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> <5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D8E45F5-57D1-4BC7-AC87-B82BEF9E76A5@gmail.com> There is a big difference between a store and a home kitchen. I wasn't commenting on her skills or lack thereof. I was just objecting to the terminology the author used, that's all. Briley On Sep 23, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be > really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It > probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M > skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to > learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the > basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community > college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one > of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but > anyway... > > Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little > exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get > lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center > that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here > because of their re-arranging everything. > > Just a thought. > > On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say that >> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" was >> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to help >> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, so >> go her. >> >> Briley >> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >> >>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times >>> >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. >>> >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >>> one. >>> >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>> >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. >>> >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. >>> >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. >>> >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >>> very close. >>> >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>> >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. >>> >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. >>> >>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. >>> >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. >>> >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>> >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. >>> >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. >>> >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>> >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>> Still dreaming >>> >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. >>> >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>> >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. >>>>> >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." >>>>> >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>> >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind >>>>>> >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I >>>>>> >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held >>>>>> >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>>> out >>>>>> >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought >>>>>> >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 02:09:56 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:09:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Environmental Science Course Revisited In-Reply-To: <55145AEC7195438CA19D793B94E894D5@userbafffee1fc> References: <55145AEC7195438CA19D793B94E894D5@userbafffee1fc> Message-ID: Hi Tina, A lot of this will depend on whether the labs, like the fieldwork and microscope lab, will be done in pairs or groups. If so, then you should be able to obtain whatever information you can't get nonvisually from your partner(s). I don't know much about field data collection, but it would probably be wise to talk with the instructor ahead of time to find out exactly what procedures and tools you will be using, and whether any of them would be accessible. If so, then you will have time to figure out which parts of the field study you can do. If none of the instruments are accessible, you can still be fully involved by talking with your partner(s) about what is going on and doing things like data recording and write-up. I was a biology major in college so I took two general bio labs and two general chem labs. For microscope labs, I worked with my lab partners to know what was happening on the microscope slides, and I helped with lab design, data recording, calculations, and write-up. For the few labs that were not done in pairs or groups, I worked with a reader who handled the inaccessible instruments and gave me the information I needed about measurements, color changes, etc. As a psychology researcher, I frequently have to make graphs for data presentations. I do this by entering the data I want to graph into an Excel table and then using the Excel chart wizard. The wizard is fairly easy to learn, although the specific instructions will depend on what kind of graph you need to make. For example, psychologists usually present data in "clustered column" charts in which different bars represent different groups of subjects, but depending on what kind of data you have, you may need to use a different kind of graph. In any case, your instructor or a teaching assistant, or even a classmate, should be able to help you figure out how to set up the chart. I usually do the basic chart building on my own and then get a reader to just check what it looks like and fix details, like scaling and font, so the chart makes sense to a sighted person. However, this process is usually pretty quick and painless. If the graphs you have to make are very complicated, you may also be able to just ask your teacher if you can give a verbal description of what the graph looks like so the teacher can see that you understand the concepts. As for interpreting graphs others have drawn, I usually like to get around this by asking for the information to be given to me in a table or a text description, or just having a reader describe it to me. I personally don't find that I gain much understanding by knowing what the graph is shaped like. However, some students find it helpful to have graphs reproduced in tactile form. I'd suggest trying it one way and then, if you have trouble, try switching to another method. In general, though, I think that visual representations such as graphs are much more valuable to sighted students (and teachers) than they always have to be for a blind student. Arielle On 9/22/10, Tina Hansen wrote: > I've had an opportunity to meet with the instructor for the Environmental > Science course I'll be taking at my local community college. During the > meeting, we discussed the nature of some of the lab work. > > >From this meeting, we concluded that I'll probably be facing several > challenges, for which I'd like some suggestions. > > 1. Field work: There will be at least one lab session where we'll be working > in the field and collecting data. If you've participated in labs like this, > what have you done to ensure that you're not on the sidelines, but fully > involved in the activities? > > 2. Microscope work: I've learned that at least one of the labs will involve > using a microscope. How have you handled this challenge? > > 3. Graphs: Graphs, both creating and interpreting them, have never been one > of my strengths. If you've either created or interpreted graphs, how have > you done it? What tools have worked, and what didn't? > > I'm interested in hearing about both low and high tech solutions to these > problems. > > By the way, I'm doing this to finish a General Studies degree, and don't > plan to go on to a university. Yet, I'm open to any suggestions on what I > might do to fully take advantage of this course. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 24 03:09:59 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:09:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1><6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com><0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC><5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <398101cb5b95$f97db150$6601a8c0@server> Arielle, I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about the blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and you may be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the proof is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, and has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is valuable for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a success inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we are doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting back and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of others to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in the race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted or blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have the guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never have the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very proud, and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything that I have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm going to write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical stereotypes. . Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Hi all, > > The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I > thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. > Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of > the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if > she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she > has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she > didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't > think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud > of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat > sheltered upbringing. > > Arielle > > On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the >> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one >> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but >> anyway... >> >> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >> because of their re-arranging everything. >> >> Just a thought. >> >> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say >>> that >>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" >>> was >>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>> help >>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, >>> so >>> go her. >>> >>> Briley >>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>> was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>> been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>> I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>> "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>> someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>> blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>> about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>> atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >>>> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>>> is >>>> one. >>>> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>> exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>>> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>> retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>> treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>> early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>> English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>> McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>> remain >>>> very close. >>>> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>> situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>>> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>> quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>> different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>>> school. >>>> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>>> do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>> for >>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>>> for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >>>> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>>> but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>> tough. >>>> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came >>>> to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>> impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>> could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>>> way >>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>> cooking >>>> at home. >>>> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>>> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" >>>> to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>> focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>>> it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>> She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>> that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>> Braille. >>>> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>> of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>> debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>> where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>> said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>>> to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>> some advice. >>>> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>> that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>> said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>> he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>> kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>> sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>>> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>>> the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>> that >>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>>> but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>>> give >>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>>> mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>> place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>>> she added. >>>> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>> >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>>> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >>>>>> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>> I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >>>>>> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>>> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>> ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>>> fine >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> mind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>>> make >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>> experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>> when I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> held >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>> hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>> brought >>>>>>> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 04:23:46 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:23:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <398101cb5b95$f97db150$6601a8c0@server> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> <0AA18D62053E413D9A3FB533D1476EEE@OwnerPC> <5FD4F61C-5B98-440E-A871-1D842C36256F@gmail.com> <398101cb5b95$f97db150$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Hi Dennis and all, I don't personally feel "superior" to Ms. Martinez, and I apologize if my comments gave that impression. I was simply arguing that some of the comments the reporter made about her, such as saying she was "lost" or that she had "overcome many challenges", may be less due to her blindness and more related to the unique background and set of opportunities that she had, which many of us don't share. For the record, of all the "interventions" and "services" I received as a totally blind child, I would say some of them were great, and some of them were not so great. I am certain that the training and opportunity she received in some areas, like cooking, were superior to my own, and I can say with confidence that she is much more adept at cooking and using kitchen knives than I am, based on the information given in the article. I don't see the use in comparing myself to her or to any other blind person; I am simply guessing that the information about her was probably accurate, given her background. Also, though I am also deeply grateful to Mr. Trotter for giving her a wonderful opportunity, and I feel very proud of her and her accomplishments, I am hesitant to give her too much praise because I believe that all blind people are capable of reaching her level of success if they are given the right training and opportunity. Of course, that is a big if; but I don't think of her accomplishments or those of any other blind person as especially amazing or remarkable. I fear that if we become too "wowed" by the successes of our fellow blind peers, we fail to recognize our own potential to reach their level of success. I had a very similar discussion with my family this summer in regard to my cousin's golf partner in Israel, who is blind and who has won numerous golf competitions against other blind golfers. Bear in mind, I really know very little about how to play golf, and I'm sure I would royally fail if attempting to play competitively. But, I believe in the power of the compensatory skills that blind people use to get things done, and I am not surprised or amazed that a blind man can figure out how to play and win. (Apparently he does have a caddy who guides him, helps him line up, etc.) Even though I don't know exactly how he does it, I trust that he is able to use his skills productively and that blindness really isn't a huge obstacle for him. I took a lot of grief from my family, especially my (sighted) sister, for repeatedly insisting that though I was happy and proud of the blind golfer's success, I didn't think of it as particularly amazing or inspiring, and I at least wanted to believe that any blind person with the right skill, motivation, and opportunity could play and win like he did. Unfortunately, the counterargument I got from them was that I was just in denial about how hard it is to be blind, leading me to conclude that they did not share my trust and belief in the normalcy of blindness and blind people. Perhaps I, and other members of the National Federation of the Blind, are in denial or deluding ourselves about how normal blindness can be, even under conditions of good training and opportunity. Although I may be in denial, my conviction that success as a blind person is normal and can be expected is what makes me feel good about myself as a blind person, and motivates me to try to achieve my goals as well as I can. And I do think that part of attaining normalcy as a group is acknowledging that our own successes and accomplishments are within the normal range of possibility for us, not distant dreams that we achieve "against the odds". Arielle On 9/23/10, Dennis Clark wrote: > Arielle, > I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about the > blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed > compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and you may > be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the proof > is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, and > has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is valuable > for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a success > inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we are > doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting back > and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of others > to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in the > race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted or > blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have the > guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives > hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never have > the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very proud, > and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything that I > have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm going to > write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I > appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical > stereotypes. . > Best, > Dennis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Hi all, >> >> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't >> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >> sheltered upbringing. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the >>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one >>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but >>> anyway... >>> >>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>> >>> Just a thought. >>> >>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say >>>> that >>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" >>>> was >>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>>> help >>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, >>>> so >>>> go her. >>>> >>>> Briley >>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>> was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>>> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>> I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>>> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>>> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>>>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>>> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>>>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>>>> is >>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>>>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>> retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>>>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>>> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>>>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>> early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>>>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>> McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>> remain >>>>> very close. >>>>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>> situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>>>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>>> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>>>> school. >>>>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>>>> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>> for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>>>> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>>>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>>>> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>>>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came >>>>> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>>> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>>> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>>>> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>> cooking >>>>> at home. >>>>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>>>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" >>>>> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>>> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>>>> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>> She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>>> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>>>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>> of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>>> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>>> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>> said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>>>> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>>>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>> that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>>>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>>> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>> he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>>>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>>>> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>>>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>> that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>>>> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>>>> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>>>> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>> place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>>>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>> ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> mind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> held >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From aadkins7 at verizon.net Fri Sep 24 11:51:30 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 07:51:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Blog reminder Message-ID: <4E0EA3C7AF46475595447E2D9561F45C@AnitaAdkinsPC> Hello to all, The newest Blindness Blog is now posted. This week's blog presents some challenges faced by students who attend a school for the blind. Remember, please pass the word about the blog to those who may find it interesting or useful. Also, your comments on the blog itself are welcome. Thanks. www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com Anita From brownbears at mchsi.com Fri Sep 24 12:54:24 2010 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda brown) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 07:54:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary Message-ID: <30D50A81256D43098ADDFF32A0D71819@MIRANDA> Does anyone know of a good talking dictionary? Miranda From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 14:32:14 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:32:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary In-Reply-To: <30D50A81256D43098ADDFF32A0D71819@MIRANDA> References: <30D50A81256D43098ADDFF32A0D71819@MIRANDA> Message-ID: <70784C941CC54A9C9A48A78DDEEA0B41@SonyPC> There are several good dictionaries you can get on the computer or on line; most of them are accessible with a screen reader to some extent. However, if you are looking for a stand alone dictionary, I would look at the Franklin language master. It is available at http://www.franklin.com/estore/dictionary/LM-6000B/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miranda brown" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Dictionary > Does anyone know of a good talking dictionary? > Miranda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 24 18:29:41 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:29:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? Message-ID: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home in much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move around (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty southward to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the article doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello Andy, > I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my > opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are ever > going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness is > a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I > hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its proponent > is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is > ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those > not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and this > article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the > ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that > this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could never > get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. > Happy cooking, > Dennis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andi" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >> the quad-city times >> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >> grater. >> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> She never does, Martinez says. >> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >> softly says. "It has ridges." >> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >> touch to make >> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >> one. >> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> She also happens to be blind. >> Fast learner gets inspiration >> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >> what caused >> her blindness. >> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >> active imagination instead. >> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >> special >> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >> three-hour car ride away. >> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >> education at the >> age of 10. >> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >> The two spent >> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >> very close. >> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >> other people >> who overcame life's challenges. >> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >> skin >> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >> school. >> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >> anything. But I don't give up." >> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >> her, Martinez said. >> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >> the blind. She took community college classes. >> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >> challenge. >> "I don't give up," she said. >> Culinary school brings challenges >> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >> not everyone >> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >> tough. >> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >> school had >> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >> present >> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >> that would accommodate her. >> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >> at home. >> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >> via >> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >> just >> has that delicate way with a knife." >> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >> Braille. >> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >> smell to figure >> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >> and other dishes are done. >> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >> feeding it >> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >> and what >> to cut, Martinez said. >> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >> feature >> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >> some advice. >> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >> least of >> all Martinez. >> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >> and the >> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> Still dreaming >> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >> Moline. She is lost >> because her family recently remodeled. >> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >> says, for food >> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >> she cooks a lot. >> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >> old favorite. >> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >> it some kick, she said. >> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >> La Diosa, >> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >> she added. >> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jewel S." >> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> Hi, >>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> ~Jewel >>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>> time I >>>> was about five. >>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>> take >>>> it from you." >>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>> since. >>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>> has >>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>> alert >>>>> us >>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>> to >>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>> mind >>>>> to let us know. >>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>> it >>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>> email: >>>>> Is >>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>> know >>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>> while >>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>> when I >>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>> held >>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>> out >>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>> conflict >>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>> and >>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>> blind >>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>> gives >>>>> me >>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>> people >>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>> know >>>>> in >>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>> advanced >>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>> to >>>>> be >>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>> might >>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>> brought >>>>> on recently. >>>>> Gerardo >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 24 18:37:10 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:37:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? Message-ID: <20100924183710.20519.83166@web2> Dennis, I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around age 25 and is doing quite well. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Arielle, > I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about the > blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed > compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and you may > be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the proof > is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, and > has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is valuable > for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a success > inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we are > doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting back > and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of others > to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in the > race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted or > blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have the > guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives > hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never have > the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very proud, > and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything that I > have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm going to > write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I > appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical > stereotypes. . > Best, > Dennis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> Hi all, >> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't >> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >> sheltered upbringing. >> Arielle >> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the >>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one >>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but >>> anyway... >>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>> Just a thought. >>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say >>>> that >>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think "lost" >>>> was >>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>>> help >>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, >>>> so >>>> go her. >>>> Briley >>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>> was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>>> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>> I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>>> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>>> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>>> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>>>> is >>>>> one. >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>> retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>>> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>> early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>> McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>> remain >>>>> very close. >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>> situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>>> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>>>> school. >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>>>> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>> for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>>>> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>>>> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came >>>>> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>>> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>>> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>>>> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>> cooking >>>>> at home. >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" >>>>> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>>> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>>>> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>> She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>>> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>> of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>>> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>>> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>> said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>>>> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>> that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>>> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>> he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>>>> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>>> Still dreaming >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>> that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>>>> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>>>> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>>>> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>> place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>> ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> mind >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> held >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 19:19:36 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:19:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <20100924183710.20519.83166@web2> References: <20100924183710.20519.83166@web2> Message-ID: I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment because Ms. Martinez is blind. On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: > Dennis, > > I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, > basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her > education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has > a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you > get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking > pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around > age 25 and is doing quite well. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Arielle, >> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about >> the >> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and you >> may >> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the >> proof >> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, >> and >> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >> valuable >> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >> success >> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we are >> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting >> back >> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of others >> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in the >> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted or >> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have the >> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives >> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never >> have >> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >> proud, >> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything that I >> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm going >> to >> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical >> stereotypes. . >> Best, >> Dennis > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>> Hi all, > >>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't >>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >>> sheltered upbringing. > >>> Arielle > >>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the >>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one >>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but >>>> anyway... > >>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>>> because of their re-arranging everything. > >>>> Just a thought. > >>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say >>>>> that >>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>> "lost" >>>>> was >>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>>>> help >>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, >>>>> so >>>>> go her. > >>>>> Briley >>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: > >>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>>> was >>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>>>> been >>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>>> I >>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>> "disability" >>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>>> someone >>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>>>> about >>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how >>>>>> to >>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>> the quad-city times > >>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim > >>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > >>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>>>> atop >>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>> grater. > >>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. > >>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. > >>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > >>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>> Moline >>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." > >>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>> explaining >>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > >>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>> feels >>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>>> touch to make >>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. > >>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>> with >>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>>>>> is >>>>>> one. > >>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>> exclusive >>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > >>>>>> She also happens to be blind. > >>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration > >>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>>> it. > >>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > >>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > >>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>> retinal >>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>>>> what caused >>>>>> her blindness. > >>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>>>> treat >>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > >>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > >>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>>>> active imagination instead. > >>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>> early >>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind >>>>>> or >>>>>> special >>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>> three-hour car ride away. > >>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>>> English >>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>> education at the >>>>>> age of 10. > >>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>> The two spent >>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>>> remain >>>>>> very close. > >>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>> situations >>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>>> and >>>>>> other people >>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. > >>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. > >>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>>>> quiet, >>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>> different >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up >>>>>> at >>>>>> school. > >>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>> told >>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > >>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>>>>> do >>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." > >>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>>> for >>>>>> her, Martinez said. > >>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>>>>> for >>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. > >>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > >>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > >>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > >>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>> challenge. > >>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. > >>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges > >>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>>>>> but >>>>>> not everyone >>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>> vice >>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>>> tough. > >>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>> came >>>>>> to >>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>> school had >>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > >>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>>>> impact >>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>>>> could >>>>>> present >>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>>>>> way >>>>>> that would accommodate her. > >>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>> cooking >>>>>> at home. > >>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. > >>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>> desire" >>>>>> to >>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>>>> focus >>>>>> via >>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > >>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>>>>> it >>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>>> She >>>>>> just >>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." > >>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>>>> that's >>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > >>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>>>> Braille. > >>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>>> of >>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>> meat >>>>>> and other dishes are done. > >>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>>>> debone >>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>> feeding it >>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>> feel >>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>>>> where >>>>>> and what >>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. > >>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>> said. >>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > >>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>>>>> to >>>>>> feature >>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > >>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>>>> some advice. > >>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>> that, >>>>>> least of >>>>>> all Martinez. > >>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > >>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>>>> said >>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > >>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>>> he >>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > >>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>> began >>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>>> kitchen >>>>>> and the >>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > >>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>> sniffing >>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. > >>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>>>>> the >>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > >>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. > >>>>>> Still dreaming > >>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. > >>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > >>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>>> says, for food >>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>>> that >>>>>> she cooks a lot. > >>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>>>>> but >>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to >>>>>> an >>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>>>>> give >>>>>> it some kick, she said. > >>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>>>>> mix >>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>> place >>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > >>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > >>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>> fight," >>>>>> she added. > >>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>> poor >>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>>> go, >>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>>>>>> ~Jewel > >>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. > >>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>> was about five. > >>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> it from you." > >>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>>> it! > >>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> mind > >>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>>>> when I > >>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> held > >>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> blind > >>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>>> brought > >>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>> Gerardo > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 19:25:25 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:25:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1> References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1> Message-ID: <723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com> Hey all, Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really have to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in my opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted assistants and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. Mary On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home in much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move around (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty southward to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the article doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hello Andy, >> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my >> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are ever >> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness is >> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I >> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its proponent >> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is >> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those >> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and this >> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that >> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could never >> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >> Happy cooking, >> Dennis > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andi" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times > >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim > >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. > >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. > >>> She never does, Martinez says. > >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." > >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. > >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >>> one. > >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > >>> She also happens to be blind. > >>> Fast learner gets inspiration > >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. > >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. > >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. > >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. > >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. > >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >>> very close. > >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. > >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. > >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. > >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >>> anything. But I don't give up." > >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. > >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. > >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. > >>> "I don't give up," she said. > >>> Culinary school brings challenges > >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. > >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >>> that would accommodate her. > >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. > >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. > >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." > >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. > >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. > >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. > >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. > >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. > >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. > >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. > >>> Still dreaming > >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. > >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. > >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >>> it some kick, she said. > >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. > >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>>> ~Jewel > >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. > >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. > >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." > >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! > >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>>> to > >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind > >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>>> it > >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I > >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held > >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>>> out > >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought > >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 19:25:04 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:25:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Northern Illinois University Message-ID: Dear all, Are there any on the list who attend Northern Illinois University, particularly in the Special Education of the Blind program (undergraduate and/or graduate), or lives in the Dekalb area? I am considering NIU for transfer after I finish up at the local community college for undergraduate and/or graduate work, and I would like to learn more about the university from another blind student. In particular, I want to know about accessibility around the university and campus, the professors' and staff's attitudes toward blindness, what you like and don't like about the university, and what you like and don't like about Dekalb. Really, I would like to pick someone's brain clean, if they'd let me! -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 24 20:03:26 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:03:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? Message-ID: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any sense? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work > at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply > because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt > fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an > exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an > accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, > and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment > because Ms. Martinez is blind. > On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >> Dennis, >> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has >> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking >> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around >> age 25 and is doing quite well. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> Arielle, >>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about >>> the >>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and you >>> may >>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the >>> proof >>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, >>> and >>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>> valuable >>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>> success >>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we are >>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting >>> back >>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of others >>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in the >>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted or >>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have the >>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives >>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never >>> have >>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>> proud, >>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything that I >>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm going >>> to >>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical >>> stereotypes. . >>> Best, >>> Dennis >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> Hi all, >>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't >>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >>>> sheltered upbringing. >>>> Arielle >>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the >>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one >>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but >>>>> anyway... >>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>>>> Just a thought. >>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to say >>>>>> that >>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>> "lost" >>>>>> was >>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>>>>> help >>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful though, >>>>>> so >>>>>> go her. >>>>>> Briley >>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>> the quad-city times >>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>>>>> atop >>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>>> grater. >>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>>> feels >>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> one. >>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>> her blindness. >>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>>>>> treat >>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>>> early >>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> special >>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>>>> English >>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>> age of 10. >>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>>>> remain >>>>>>> very close. >>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>> situations >>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> other people >>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> skin >>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> school. >>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>>> told >>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>>> challenge. >>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>>> vice >>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>>>> tough. >>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>>> came >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>>> school had >>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>>>>> impact >>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> present >>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>> at home. >>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>>>>> focus >>>>>>> via >>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>>>> She >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>>>>> that's >>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>>>>> Braille. >>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>>> meat >>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>>>>> debone >>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>>> feel >>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> and what >>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>>> said. >>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> feature >>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>>>>> some advice. >>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>>> that, >>>>>>> least of >>>>>>> all Martinez. >>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>>>>> said >>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>>> began >>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>> and the >>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>>>>> Still dreaming >>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>>>>>> give >>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>>>>>> mix >>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>>> place >>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>> she added. >>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>> was about five. >>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>> it from you." >>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>>>> it! >>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> mind >>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> held >>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>>>> brought >>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 20:22:25 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:22:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> Message-ID: I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind person can't do. Good for her. On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: > I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that > Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but > they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability > to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any > sense? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >> because Ms. Martinez is blind. > >> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>> Dennis, > >>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has >>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking >>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around >>> age 25 and is doing quite well. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi > >>> Original message: >>>> Arielle, >>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about >>>> the >>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and you >>>> may >>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the >>>> proof >>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, >>>> and >>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>> valuable >>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>> success >>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we >>>> are >>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting >>>> back >>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>> others >>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in >>>> the >>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted >>>> or >>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have the >>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives >>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never >>>> have >>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>> proud, >>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything that >>>> I >>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>> going >>>> to >>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical >>>> stereotypes. . >>>> Best, >>>> Dennis > > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't >>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >>>>> sheltered upbringing. > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got the >>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only one >>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, but >>>>>> anyway... > >>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. > >>>>>> Just a thought. > >>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to >>>>>>> say >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>> though, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> go her. > >>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: > >>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > >>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>> the quad-city times > >>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > >>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim > >>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > >>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>>>> grater. > >>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. > >>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. > >>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > >>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." > >>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > >>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. > >>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> one. > >>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > >>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. > >>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration > >>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > >>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > >>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>> her blindness. > >>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > >>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > >>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> active imagination instead. > >>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. > >>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>> age of 10. > >>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>> very close. > >>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. > >>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>> father. > >>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> school. > >>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > >>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." > >>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. > >>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. > >>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > >>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > >>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > >>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>>>> challenge. > >>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. > >>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges > >>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> tough. > >>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > >>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. > >>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>> at home. > >>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>> said. > >>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > >>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." > >>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > >>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> Braille. > >>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. > >>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. > >>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > >>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > >>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> some advice. > >>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at >>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>> all Martinez. > >>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > >>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > >>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > >>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > >>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>> Moline. > >>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > >>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. > >>>>>>>> Still dreaming > >>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. > >>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > >>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. > >>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on >>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. > >>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > >>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > >>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>> she added. > >>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would >>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>>>>>>>> ~Jewel > >>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. > >>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>> was about five. > >>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>> it from you." > >>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>>>>> it! > >>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> mind > >>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> when I > >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> held > >>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> blind > >>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>> brought > >>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 21:03:02 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:03:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> Message-ID: <20ECDD3AA0024ADEB91DD7F89D0E6BE2@MarcPC> The thing that troubles me with these sorts of articles is the way they tend to promote the idea that the challenges associated with blindness are individual problems, ones that particularly impressive people are able to overcome. Getting hired at an exclusive restaurant at the age of 25 is an amazing accomplishment for anyone, blind or sighted, and I don't think it would be any less amazing even if we actually did all have the ability to accomplish great things in our respective fields. Of course, we don't all have this ability. I think that great things are by definition those things that only a small number can accomplish. If everyone could do it, it wouldn't be great. What some people may want to say is that the accomplishment is truly amazing, but that the person's being blind doesn't make it anymore amazing. But I don't think this is right either. Blindness of course does make it more amazing. If blindness were not disadvantageous, we wouldn't need the NFB. If there were no discrimination, if there were no inaccessible products, if all things were designed in accordance with universal design principles, then blindness wouldn't make a significant achievment any more amazing. But in the presence of all of these things, success despite blindness is noteworthy. What I think we really want to say is that the accomplishment is truly amazing, and the fact that it was achieved despite the disadvantages blind people face makes it even more amazing; however, blindness is not inherently disadvantageous enough to make such accomplishments more amazing, and the fact that so many unnecessary barriers are erected for blind people is what we really ought to be focusing on. This latter message is a harder one to communicate, and I think it's why we sometimes end up coming across as downplaying someone's success. It's because even though it is more amazing for a blind person to do this, it really shouldn't be, and if we didn't have to put up with the socially-created disadvantage, then blindness wouldn't make these accomplishments any more amazing. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that Martinez's >accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but they're not so >amazing at the same time because we all have the ability to accomplish >great things in our respective fields. does that make any sense? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >> because Ms. Martinez is blind. > >> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>> Dennis, > >>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has >>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking >>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around >>> age 25 and is doing quite well. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi > >>> Original message: >>>> Arielle, >>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive about >>>> the >>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>> you >>>> may >>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the >>>> proof >>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the top, >>>> and >>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>> valuable >>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>> success >>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we >>>> are >>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting >>>> back >>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>> others >>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in >>>> the >>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, sighted >>>> or >>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>> the >>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their lives >>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will never >>>> have >>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>> proud, >>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>> that I >>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>> going >>>> to >>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical >>>> stereotypes. . >>>> Best, >>>> Dennis > > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I don't >>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >>>>> sheltered upbringing. > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>> the >>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>> one >>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>> but >>>>>> anyway... > >>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping center >>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. > >>>>>> Just a thought. > >>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to >>>>>>> say >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>> though, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> go her. > >>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: > >>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > >>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>> the quad-city times > >>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > >>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim > >>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > >>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>>>> grater. > >>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. > >>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. > >>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > >>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." > >>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > >>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. > >>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> one. > >>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > >>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. > >>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration > >>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > >>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > >>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>> her blindness. > >>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > >>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > >>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> active imagination instead. > >>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. > >>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>> age of 10. > >>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>> very close. > >>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. > >>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>> father. > >>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> school. > >>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > >>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." > >>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. > >>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. > >>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > >>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > >>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > >>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> challenge. > >>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. > >>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges > >>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> tough. > >>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>> said. > >>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. > >>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>> at home. > >>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>> said. > >>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > >>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." > >>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > >>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> Braille. > >>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. > >>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. > >>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > >>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > >>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> some advice. > >>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at >>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>> all Martinez. > >>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > >>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > >>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > >>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > >>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>> Moline. > >>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > >>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. > >>>>>>>> Still dreaming > >>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. > >>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > >>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. > >>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on >>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. > >>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>> offering a >>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > >>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>> up." > >>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>> she added. > >>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would >>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>>>>>>>> ~Jewel > >>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. > >>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>> was about five. > >>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>> it from you." > >>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>>>>> it! > >>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> mind > >>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> when I > >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> held > >>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> blind > >>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>> brought > >>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo > > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 21:45:56 2010 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:45:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> Message-ID: <4B1D2CB37684482E97AA1D1FA6169918@Dezman> Kirt, I agree. I like the way Dr. Jernigan put it: the above average can compete with the below average, the average can compete with the average and the above average can compete with the above average. Relatively few people who are in this trade will become master chefs so sighted or not, when it comes to the art she's definitely an above average blind person competing on terms of equality. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, > especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this > is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent > unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that > this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. > Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but > how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? > The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most > of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, > doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind > person can't do. Good for her. > > On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that >> Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but >> they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability >> to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any >> sense? >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >>> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >>> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >>> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >>> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >>> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >>> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >>> because Ms. Martinez is blind. >> >>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>> Dennis, >> >>>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has >>>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking >>>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around >>>> age 25 and is doing quite well. >> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >> >>>> Original message: >>>>> Arielle, >>>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive >>>>> about >>>>> the >>>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>>> you >>>>> may >>>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the >>>>> proof >>>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the >>>>> top, >>>>> and >>>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>>> valuable >>>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>>> success >>>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we >>>>> are >>>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting >>>>> back >>>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>>> others >>>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in >>>>> the >>>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, >>>>> sighted >>>>> or >>>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>>> the >>>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their >>>>> lives >>>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will >>>>> never >>>>> have >>>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>>> proud, >>>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>>> that >>>>> I >>>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>>> going >>>>> to >>>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical >>>>> stereotypes. . >>>>> Best, >>>>> Dennis >> >> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >>>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >>>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >>>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >>>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >>>>>> sheltered upbringing. >> >>>>>> Arielle >> >>>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> anyway... >> >>>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >> >>>>>>> Just a thought. >> >>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to >>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>>> though, >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> go her. >> >>>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>>> the quad-city times >> >>>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a >>>>>>>>> vegetable >>>>>>>>> grater. >> >>>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut >>>>>>>>> meat. >> >>>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> one. >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> it. >> >>>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. >>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>>> her blindness. >> >>>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses >>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>>> age of 10. >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>>> very close. >> >>>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen >>>>>>>>> Keller >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>>> father. >> >>>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came >>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> school. >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to >>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> challenge. >> >>>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> tough. >> >>>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>>> said. >> >>>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom >>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>>> at home. >> >>>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>>> said. >> >>>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled >>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Braille. >> >>>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel >>>>>>>>> everything - >>>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they >>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, >>>>>>>>> CBS >>>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give >>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>> some advice. >> >>>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at >>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>>> all Martinez. >> >>>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>>> Moline. >> >>>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>>>>>>> Still dreaming >> >>>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the >>>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on >>>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>>> offering >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>>> up." >> >>>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>>> she added. >> >>>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >> >>>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend >>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would >>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I >>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to >>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that >>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't >>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, >>>>>>>>>> too!), >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it >>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use >>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>> it! >> >>>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>>>>>>>>>>> memories >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? >>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in >>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, >>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than >>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> >> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> >> >> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >> >> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 22:22:10 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:22:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <4B1D2CB37684482E97AA1D1FA6169918@Dezman> References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> <4B1D2CB37684482E97AA1D1FA6169918@Dezman> Message-ID: Mark, I believe Everyone has the potential to be great. Most people don't actualize it. And, that aside, I'm going to say something that might sound wrong to some of you so please don't take it out of context. Blindness does inherently make it harder to cook and become a master cheff, because we need to learn alternative techniques and that can take time. Impossible, no. Reasonable for any average blind person with propper training, certainly. But blindness, by being a physical disability, does make it more difficult. What I think most of us agree that, with propper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere nuisence. But that propper training, as I'm sure any graduate of any NFB center can attest, is challenging and demanding. So...yes, blindness is a barrier there. Not an insurmountable barrier, but a barrier nonetheless. So I'm glad this article, even with its obvious flaws, was written. Because it shows people that a blind person can succeed in such a rigorous environment. You can't expect this sort of article to be perfect, devoid of any stereotypes, and totally spot-on in the way it portrays blindness. But it's much better than many I've read. On 9/24/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Kirt, > > I agree. I like the way Dr. Jernigan put it: the above average can compete > with the below average, the average can compete with the average and the > above average can compete with the above average. Relatively few people who > are in this trade will become master chefs so sighted or not, when it comes > to the art she's definitely an above average blind person competing on terms > of equality. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:22 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, >> especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this >> is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent >> unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that >> this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. >> Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but >> how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? >> The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most >> of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, >> doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind >> person can't do. Good for her. >> >> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that >>> Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but >>> they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability >>> to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any >>> sense? >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >>>> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >>>> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >>>> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >>>> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >>>> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >>>> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >>>> because Ms. Martinez is blind. >>> >>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>> Dennis, >>> >>>>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>>>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>>>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she has >>>>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>>>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is looking >>>>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at around >>>>> age 25 and is doing quite well. >>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive >>>>>> about >>>>>> the >>>>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>>>> you >>>>>> may >>>>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, the >>>>>> proof >>>>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the >>>>>> top, >>>>>> and >>>>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>>>> valuable >>>>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>>>> success >>>>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how we >>>>>> are >>>>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't sitting >>>>>> back >>>>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>>>> others >>>>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there in >>>>>> the >>>>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> or >>>>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>>>> the >>>>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their >>>>>> lives >>>>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will >>>>>> never >>>>>> have >>>>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>>>> proud, >>>>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>>>> that >>>>>> I >>>>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>>>> going >>>>>> to >>>>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond typical >>>>>> stereotypes. . >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>> >>>>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot of >>>>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, if >>>>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why she >>>>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am proud >>>>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a somewhat >>>>>>> sheltered upbringing. >>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>> >>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your O&M >>>>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying to >>>>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after community >>>>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> anyway... >>> >>>>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping >>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int here >>>>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>> >>>>>>>> Just a thought. >>> >>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly to >>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>>>> though, >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> go her. >>> >>>>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a >>>>>>>>>> vegetable >>>>>>>>>> grater. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut >>>>>>>>>> meat. >>> >>>>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because >>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> one. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> it. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. >>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses >>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>>>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>>>> very close. >>> >>>>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen >>>>>>>>>> Keller >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>>>> father. >>> >>>>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came >>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> school. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to >>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> tough. >>> >>>>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>>>> said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom >>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>>>> at home. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>>>> said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I >>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled >>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel >>>>>>>>>> everything - >>>>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they >>>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, >>>>>>>>>> CBS >>>>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give >>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at >>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>>>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>>>> Moline. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which >>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, >>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the >>>>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on >>>>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>>>> offering >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>>>> up." >>> >>>>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>>>> she added. >>> >>>>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend >>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would >>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I >>>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to >>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't >>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, >>>>>>>>>>> too!), >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it >>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use >>>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>> it! >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>>>>>>>>>>>> memories >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than >>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 22:24:12 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:24:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> <4B1D2CB37684482E97AA1D1FA6169918@Dezman> Message-ID: Sorry for the double post. But I just realized that my last email made it sound like I thought any blind person could become a master scheff. I meant that the average blind person can and should learn how to cook independently. Sorry for the poor wording, blame my lack of sleep or something. All the best, Kirt On 9/24/10, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Mark, > I believe Everyone has the potential to be great. Most people don't > actualize it. And, that aside, I'm going to say something that might > sound wrong to some of you so please don't take it out of context. > Blindness does inherently make it harder to cook and become a master > cheff, because we need to learn alternative techniques and that can > take time. Impossible, no. Reasonable for any average blind person > with propper training, certainly. But blindness, by being a physical > disability, does make it more difficult. What I think most of us > agree that, with propper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere > nuisence. But that propper training, as I'm sure any graduate of any > NFB center can attest, is challenging and demanding. So...yes, > blindness is a barrier there. Not an insurmountable barrier, but a > barrier nonetheless. > So I'm glad this article, even with its obvious flaws, was written. > Because it shows people that a blind person can succeed in such a > rigorous environment. You can't expect this sort of article to be > perfect, devoid of any stereotypes, and totally spot-on in the way it > portrays blindness. But it's much better than many I've read. > > On 9/24/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Kirt, >> >> I agree. I like the way Dr. Jernigan put it: the above average can >> compete >> with the below average, the average can compete with the average and the >> above average can compete with the above average. Relatively few people >> who >> are in this trade will become master chefs so sighted or not, when it >> comes >> to the art she's definitely an above average blind person competing on >> terms >> of equality. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kirt Manwaring" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, >>> especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this >>> is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent >>> unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that >>> this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. >>> Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but >>> how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? >>> The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most >>> of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, >>> doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind >>> person can't do. Good for her. >>> >>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that >>>> Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but >>>> they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability >>>> to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any >>>> sense? >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >>>>> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >>>>> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >>>>> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >>>>> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >>>>> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >>>>> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >>>>> because Ms. Martinez is blind. >>>> >>>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>>> Dennis, >>>> >>>>>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>>>>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>>>>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she >>>>>> has >>>>>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>>>>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is >>>>>> looking >>>>>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at >>>>>> around >>>>>> age 25 and is doing quite well. >>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>> >>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>>>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> proof >>>>>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the >>>>>>> top, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>>>>> success >>>>>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> back >>>>>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>>>>> others >>>>>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their >>>>>>> lives >>>>>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will >>>>>>> never >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>>>>> proud, >>>>>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>>>>> going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>>>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond >>>>>>> typical >>>>>>> stereotypes. . >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am >>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a >>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>> sheltered upbringing. >>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your >>>>>>>>> O&M >>>>>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after >>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> anyway... >>>> >>>>>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping >>>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int >>>>>>>>> here >>>>>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a thought. >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>>>>> though, >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> go her. >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>>>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a >>>>>>>>>>> vegetable >>>>>>>>>>> grater. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut >>>>>>>>>>> meat. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her >>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>>>>>>>>>> parsley >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> one. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. >>>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>>>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation >>>>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She >>>>>>>>>>> uses >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in >>>>>>>>>>> Spanish, >>>>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her >>>>>>>>>>> formal >>>>>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>>>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>>>>> very close. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen >>>>>>>>>>> Keller >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>>>>> father. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject >>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people >>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to >>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> challenge. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>>>>>>>>>> Chicago, >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>>>>>>>>>> school's >>>>>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>>>>>>>>>> curriculum >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> tough. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>>>>> at home. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled >>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Braille. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel >>>>>>>>>>> everything - >>>>>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they >>>>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, >>>>>>>>>>> CBS >>>>>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe >>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> some advice. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>>>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>>>>> Moline. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>>>>>>>>>> person, >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the >>>>>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>>>>>>>>>> twist >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>>>>> offering >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>>>>> up." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>>>>> she added. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of >>>>>>>>>>> blindness >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>>>>>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>>>>>>>>>>> friend >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I >>>>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that >>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't >>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M >>>>>>>>>>>> instructor >>>>>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, >>>>>>>>>>>> too!), >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it >>>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was about five. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use >>>>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>> it from you." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>> it! >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> held >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> memories >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> day >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: >>>>>>>>> http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 23:01:17 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 17:01:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3><4B1D2CB37684482E97AA1D1FA6169918@Dezman> Message-ID: <8DEBC5E8A03548EA81A62259D2750D26@MarcPC> Kirt, I think we probably disagree on the definition of a couple of words. If great means above average, then it is definitionally not possible for everyone to be great. If everyone did something above average, then the average would change and become whatever most people were doing; in which case, they would only be average, not above average. It is only our democratic belief in equality that makes us resist the notion that not everyone is capable of achieving greatness. Secondly, inherently, as I understand it, means no matter what the social situation. Setting Einstein's theory of relativity aside, we can say that a particular mass is inherent to an object. Whether you're on the earth or the moon, your weight is different, but your mass is the same. For blindness to make it inherently harder to cook, you would have to be saying that there is no conceivable situation where blindness would not make it harder to cook. Well, I can pretty easily think of a situation where being blind or having sight would make no difference: just cook in the dark. If no light were available, then it would not be any harder for a blind person to cook than a sighted person, and thus it is not inherently harder for a blind person to cook. I'm not sure how you are defining the words great and inherent, but this is how I am using them. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Mark, > I believe Everyone has the potential to be great. Most people don't > actualize it. And, that aside, I'm going to say something that might > sound wrong to some of you so please don't take it out of context. > Blindness does inherently make it harder to cook and become a master > cheff, because we need to learn alternative techniques and that can > take time. Impossible, no. Reasonable for any average blind person > with propper training, certainly. But blindness, by being a physical > disability, does make it more difficult. What I think most of us > agree that, with propper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere > nuisence. But that propper training, as I'm sure any graduate of any > NFB center can attest, is challenging and demanding. So...yes, > blindness is a barrier there. Not an insurmountable barrier, but a > barrier nonetheless. > So I'm glad this article, even with its obvious flaws, was written. > Because it shows people that a blind person can succeed in such a > rigorous environment. You can't expect this sort of article to be > perfect, devoid of any stereotypes, and totally spot-on in the way it > portrays blindness. But it's much better than many I've read. > > On 9/24/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: >> Kirt, >> >> I agree. I like the way Dr. Jernigan put it: the above average can >> compete >> with the below average, the average can compete with the average and the >> above average can compete with the above average. Relatively few people >> who >> are in this trade will become master chefs so sighted or not, when it >> comes >> to the art she's definitely an above average blind person competing on >> terms >> of equality. >> >> Dezman >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kirt Manwaring" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, >>> especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this >>> is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent >>> unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that >>> this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. >>> Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but >>> how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? >>> The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most >>> of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, >>> doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind >>> person can't do. Good for her. >>> >>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that >>>> Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but >>>> they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability >>>> to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any >>>> sense? >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >>>>> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >>>>> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >>>>> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >>>>> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >>>>> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >>>>> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >>>>> because Ms. Martinez is blind. >>>> >>>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>>> Dennis, >>>> >>>>>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>>>>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>>>>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she >>>>>> has >>>>>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>>>>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is >>>>>> looking >>>>>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at >>>>>> around >>>>>> age 25 and is doing quite well. >>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>> >>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>>>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> proof >>>>>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the >>>>>>> top, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>>>>> success >>>>>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> back >>>>>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>>>>> others >>>>>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their >>>>>>> lives >>>>>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will >>>>>>> never >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>>>>> proud, >>>>>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>>>>> going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>>>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond >>>>>>> typical >>>>>>> stereotypes. . >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am >>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a >>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>> sheltered upbringing. >>>> >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your >>>>>>>>> O&M >>>>>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after >>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> anyway... >>>> >>>>>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping >>>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int >>>>>>>>> here >>>>>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a thought. >>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>>>>> though, >>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>> go her. >>>> >>>>>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>>>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a >>>>>>>>>>> vegetable >>>>>>>>>>> grater. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut >>>>>>>>>>> meat. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her >>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>>>>>>>>>> parsley >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> one. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. >>>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>>>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation >>>>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She >>>>>>>>>>> uses >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in >>>>>>>>>>> Spanish, >>>>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her >>>>>>>>>>> formal >>>>>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>>>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>>>>> very close. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen >>>>>>>>>>> Keller >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>>>>> father. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject >>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people >>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to >>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> challenge. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>>>>>>>>>> Chicago, >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>>>>>>>>>> school's >>>>>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>>>>>>>>>> curriculum >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> tough. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>>>>> at home. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I >>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled >>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Braille. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel >>>>>>>>>>> everything - >>>>>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they >>>>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, >>>>>>>>>>> CBS >>>>>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe >>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> some advice. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>>>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>>>>> Moline. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>>>>>>>>>> person, >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the >>>>>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>>>>>>>>>> twist >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>>>>> offering >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>>>>> up." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>>>>> she added. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of >>>>>>>>>>> blindness >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>>>>>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>>>>>>>>>>> friend >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I >>>>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to >>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that >>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't >>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M >>>>>>>>>>>> instructor >>>>>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, >>>>>>>>>>>> too!), >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it >>>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was about five. >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use >>>>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>> it from you." >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>> it! >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> held >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> memories >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> day >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: >>>>>>>>> http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 01:44:38 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 19:44:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <8DEBC5E8A03548EA81A62259D2750D26@MarcPC> References: <20100924200326.21351.63743@web3> <4B1D2CB37684482E97AA1D1FA6169918@Dezman> <8DEBC5E8A03548EA81A62259D2750D26@MarcPC> Message-ID: Mark, I agree with you on the definition of "great." Something great is above average, I'd say far above average. I think everyone has it in them to be above average, but most people never get there and that's why we have mediocrity. So, to me, greatness is living up to one's potential for excellence. We all have that possibility, most of us never get there. I conceed the point about "inherent." I meant in almost all situations. Because blindness is the lack of eyesight, that makes it more difficult to learn how to cook. Doable, but difficult. I suppose, if it were totally dark, blindness would make no difference. But, for purposes of real life, it does. You need to learn how to cook which, at least for me, is taking a lot more effort than it does for the average sighted person. And, because effective training programs for blind people to learn how to cook effectively are so rigorous and intensive, I'd say that's how it is for the vast majority of blind people. So we might be arguing semantics, but I think blindness makes cooking harder in almost all situations. Is that better? All the best, Kirt On 9/24/10, Marc Workman wrote: > Kirt, > > I think we probably disagree on the definition of a couple of words. > > If great means above average, then it is definitionally not possible for > everyone to be great. If everyone did something above average, then the > average would change and become whatever most people were doing; in which > case, they would only be average, not above average. It is only our > democratic belief in equality that makes us resist the notion that not > everyone is capable of achieving greatness. > > Secondly, inherently, as I understand it, means no matter what the social > situation. Setting Einstein's theory of relativity aside, we can say that a > particular mass is inherent to an object. Whether you're on the earth or > the moon, your weight is different, but your mass is the same. For > blindness to make it inherently harder to cook, you would have to be saying > that there is no conceivable situation where blindness would not make it > harder to cook. Well, I can pretty easily think of a situation where being > blind or having sight would make no difference: just cook in the dark. If > no light were available, then it would not be any harder for a blind person > to cook than a sighted person, and thus it is not inherently harder for a > blind person to cook. > > I'm not sure how you are defining the words great and inherent, but this is > how I am using them. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 4:22 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Mark, >> I believe Everyone has the potential to be great. Most people don't >> actualize it. And, that aside, I'm going to say something that might >> sound wrong to some of you so please don't take it out of context. >> Blindness does inherently make it harder to cook and become a master >> cheff, because we need to learn alternative techniques and that can >> take time. Impossible, no. Reasonable for any average blind person >> with propper training, certainly. But blindness, by being a physical >> disability, does make it more difficult. What I think most of us >> agree that, with propper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere >> nuisence. But that propper training, as I'm sure any graduate of any >> NFB center can attest, is challenging and demanding. So...yes, >> blindness is a barrier there. Not an insurmountable barrier, but a >> barrier nonetheless. >> So I'm glad this article, even with its obvious flaws, was written. >> Because it shows people that a blind person can succeed in such a >> rigorous environment. You can't expect this sort of article to be >> perfect, devoid of any stereotypes, and totally spot-on in the way it >> portrays blindness. But it's much better than many I've read. >> >> On 9/24/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> >>> I agree. I like the way Dr. Jernigan put it: the above average can >>> compete >>> with the below average, the average can compete with the average and the >>> above average can compete with the above average. Relatively few people >>> who >>> are in this trade will become master chefs so sighted or not, when it >>> comes >>> to the art she's definitely an above average blind person competing on >>> terms >>> of equality. >>> >>> Dezman >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:22 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, >>>> especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this >>>> is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent >>>> unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that >>>> this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. >>>> Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but >>>> how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? >>>> The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most >>>> of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, >>>> doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind >>>> person can't do. Good for her. >>>> >>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that >>>>> Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but >>>>> they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability >>>>> to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any >>>>> sense? >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >>>>>> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >>>>>> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >>>>>> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >>>>>> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >>>>>> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >>>>>> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >>>>>> because Ms. Martinez is blind. >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>>>> Dennis, >>>>> >>>>>>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>>>>>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>>>>>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>>>>>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is >>>>>>> looking >>>>>>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at >>>>>>> around >>>>>>> age 25 and is doing quite well. >>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>>>>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> proof >>>>>>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the >>>>>>>> top, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>>>>>> success >>>>>>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't >>>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, >>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their >>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will >>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>>>>>> proud, >>>>>>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>>>>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond >>>>>>>> typical >>>>>>>> stereotypes. . >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Dennis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>>>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>>>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>>>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am >>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a >>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>> sheltered upbringing. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your >>>>>>>>>> O&M >>>>>>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> anyway... >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping >>>>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int >>>>>>>>>> here >>>>>>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>>>>>> though, >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> go her. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>>>>>> the quad-city times >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a >>>>>>>>>>>> vegetable >>>>>>>>>>>> grater. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut >>>>>>>>>>>> meat. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, >>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her >>>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>>>>>>>>>>> parsley >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. >>>>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>>>>>> her blindness. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation >>>>>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She >>>>>>>>>>>> uses >>>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending >>>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in >>>>>>>>>>>> Spanish, >>>>>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her >>>>>>>>>>>> formal >>>>>>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>>>>>> age of 10. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>>>>>> very close. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen >>>>>>>>>>>> Keller >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>>>>>> father. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject >>>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she >>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to >>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> challenge. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago, >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>>>>>>>>>>> school's >>>>>>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>>>>>>>>>>> curriculum >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> tough. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom >>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>>>>>> at home. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I >>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled >>>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> Braille. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel >>>>>>>>>>>> everything - >>>>>>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they >>>>>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," >>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, >>>>>>>>>>>> CBS >>>>>>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe >>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>>> some advice. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>>>>>> all Martinez. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, >>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>>>>>> Moline. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Still dreaming >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>>>>>>>>>>> person, >>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the >>>>>>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>>>>>>>>>>> twist >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, >>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>>>>>> offering >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>>>>>> up." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>>>>>> she added. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of >>>>>>>>>>>> blindness >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>>>>>>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>>>>>>>>>>>> friend >>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does >>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I >>>>>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as >>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to >>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that >>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how >>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M >>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor >>>>>>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, >>>>>>>>>>>>> too!), >>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was about five. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it from you." >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it! >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> held >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> memories >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: >>>>>>>>>> http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 02:08:45 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:08:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS-L Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00fa01cb5c56$96708350$c35189f0$@com> Marc, I think we are pretty much on the same page on this. The distinction I articulated between abilities and capacities was not meant to dismiss all possibility of their being any differences between the blind and the sighted, but rather to clarify things and resolve the apparent tension you pointed out when you said: "Though, if you think about it, what is the difference between having an enhanced/heightened sense of hearing, and using your sense of hearing more effectively than the average person?" While I don't have the knowledge or background to know if it is in fact the case that the brains of blind children develop differently than those of sighted children, I don't have a hard time believing that there is some truth in that. I do not, however, think that this is what sighted people are generally thinking about when they make comments about superhuman hearing. I am quite sure that many people attribute to blind people sensory abilities that go beyond anything humans have the capacity to achieve. I also think, the question of different brain development aside, the majority of the ways in which I use my hearing could be easily achieved by a sighted individual if he or she took a relatively short period of time to focus on doing so. For instance, I have had people be amazed at the fact that I was able to locate a set of keys which I had dropped on the ground. Surely, with minimal effort, virtually anybody could learn to discern the approximate location of a dropped item by listening. I can definitely agree with you that there may be a kernel of truth to the stereotype in that blind people, generally, develop their senses beyond what is considered normal, and may even have a greater capacity to develop sensory capabilities beyond the point that is possible for sighted persons to develop theirs, due to differences in brain development. This said, I believe that, by and large, it is my abilities and not my capacities that differ from those of the average sighted person, particularly with respect to the ways in which I use my senses in daily life. Take care, Sean From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 25 06:12:41 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 02:12:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? Message-ID: <20100925061241.9867.5821@web1> Kirt, While I understand that learning how to cook may have been difficult for you, and while I understand that the training to cook with no vision might have been difficult for you, that is not the case for everyone and should not be generalized. I for one, found it easy after I got over the stereotypes about blindness inherently making cooking difficult. Interesting, eh? I'm with Marc on this one: the social barriers placed on blind people often make things a hell of a lot more difficult than blindness itself. The reason why social barriers exist is because the world is built for the use and the advantage of the sighted. As a result, most folks learn how to cook as sighted people. I bet there's quite a few sighted folks who thought learning to cook sighted was pretty darn difficult. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Mark, > I agree with you on the definition of "great." Something great is > above average, I'd say far above average. I think everyone has it in > them to be above average, but most people never get there and that's > why we have mediocrity. So, to me, greatness is living up to one's > potential for excellence. We all have that possibility, most of us > never get there. > I conceed the point about "inherent." I meant in almost all > situations. Because blindness is the lack of eyesight, that makes it > more difficult to learn how to cook. Doable, but difficult. I > suppose, if it were totally dark, blindness would make no difference. > But, for purposes of real life, it does. You need to learn how to > cook which, at least for me, is taking a lot more effort than it does > for the average sighted person. And, because effective training > programs for blind people to learn how to cook effectively are so > rigorous and intensive, I'd say that's how it is for the vast majority > of blind people. So we might be arguing semantics, but I think > blindness makes cooking harder in almost all situations. Is that > better? > All the best, > Kirt > On 9/24/10, Marc Workman wrote: >> Kirt, >> I think we probably disagree on the definition of a couple of words. >> If great means above average, then it is definitionally not possible for >> everyone to be great. If everyone did something above average, then the >> average would change and become whatever most people were doing; in which >> case, they would only be average, not above average. It is only our >> democratic belief in equality that makes us resist the notion that not >> everyone is capable of achieving greatness. >> Secondly, inherently, as I understand it, means no matter what the social >> situation. Setting Einstein's theory of relativity aside, we can say that a >> particular mass is inherent to an object. Whether you're on the earth or >> the moon, your weight is different, but your mass is the same. For >> blindness to make it inherently harder to cook, you would have to be saying >> that there is no conceivable situation where blindness would not make it >> harder to cook. Well, I can pretty easily think of a situation where being >> blind or having sight would make no difference: just cook in the dark. If >> no light were available, then it would not be any harder for a blind person >> to cook than a sighted person, and thus it is not inherently harder for a >> blind person to cook. >> I'm not sure how you are defining the words great and inherent, but this is >> how I am using them. >> Best, >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kirt Manwaring" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 4:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> Mark, >>> I believe Everyone has the potential to be great. Most people don't >>> actualize it. And, that aside, I'm going to say something that might >>> sound wrong to some of you so please don't take it out of context. >>> Blindness does inherently make it harder to cook and become a master >>> cheff, because we need to learn alternative techniques and that can >>> take time. Impossible, no. Reasonable for any average blind person >>> with propper training, certainly. But blindness, by being a physical >>> disability, does make it more difficult. What I think most of us >>> agree that, with propper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere >>> nuisence. But that propper training, as I'm sure any graduate of any >>> NFB center can attest, is challenging and demanding. So...yes, >>> blindness is a barrier there. Not an insurmountable barrier, but a >>> barrier nonetheless. >>> So I'm glad this article, even with its obvious flaws, was written. >>> Because it shows people that a blind person can succeed in such a >>> rigorous environment. You can't expect this sort of article to be >>> perfect, devoid of any stereotypes, and totally spot-on in the way it >>> portrays blindness. But it's much better than many I've read. >>> On 9/24/10, Dezman Jackson wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> I agree. I like the way Dr. Jernigan put it: the above average can >>>> compete >>>> with the below average, the average can compete with the average and the >>>> above average can compete with the above average. Relatively few people >>>> who >>>> are in this trade will become master chefs so sighted or not, when it >>>> comes >>>> to the art she's definitely an above average blind person competing on >>>> terms >>>> of equality. >>>> Dezman >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:22 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>>> I think, overall, it's a pretty decent article. Not perfect, >>>>> especially the "getting lost in your kitchen" bit, but...really, this >>>>> is a remarkable accomplishment. Especially given the 70 percent >>>>> unemployment rate among blind people, and taking in to account that >>>>> this is a job most scheffs can only dream of...yeah, it's amazing. >>>>> Yes, we all have that potential to thrive in our chosen fields, but >>>>> how many of us, especially us blind people, actually live up to it? >>>>> The sad reality, especially given employment statistics, is that most >>>>> of us do not. So, kudos to her for getting a job at a top restaurant, >>>>> doing stuff most people (blind or sighted) probably think a blind >>>>> person can't do. Good for her. >>>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>>> I don't downplay it; I think Arielle is right when she says that >>>>>> Martinez's accomplishments are amazing because they just are, but >>>>>> they're not so amazing at the same time because we all have the ability >>>>>> to accomplish great things in our respective fields. does that make any >>>>>> sense? >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>> I am surprised that none of you are amazed by her being hired to work >>>>>>> at Charlie Trotter's restaurant. He would not have hired her simply >>>>>>> because she is blind, but because she is an amazing chef that he felt >>>>>>> fit the restaurant's goals and food style. Being hired for an >>>>>>> exclusive restaurant like this right after graduation is an >>>>>>> accomplishment for anyone, sighted or blind, able-bodied or disabled, >>>>>>> and I am surprised how many of you are downplaying this accomplishment >>>>>>> because Ms. Martinez is blind. >>>>>>> On 9/24/10, Jedi wrote: >>>>>>>> Dennis, >>>>>>>> I think you've seriously misinterpreted what Arielle said. she said, >>>>>>>> basically, that this woman succeeded despite serious setbacks in her >>>>>>>> education and upbringing. She in no way said that she, because she >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> a strong blindness education, is better than Martinez. Where did you >>>>>>>> get that? And just so you know, Arielle's success inventory is >>>>>>>> looking >>>>>>>> pretty darn good where I'm sitting: she's a Doctoral student at >>>>>>>> around >>>>>>>> age 25 and is doing quite well. >>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>> Jedi >>>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>>> Arielle, >>>>>>>>> I think it is worth noting that you did not say anything positive >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> blind chef. All of your comments about her were called left handed >>>>>>>>> compliments when I was young. You clearly feel superior to her, and >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>> be, with all the skills you have mastered. For all human beings, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> proof >>>>>>>>> is in the pudding. In the profession she has chosen she is at the >>>>>>>>> top, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> has greatly exceeded almost all sighted competition. I think it is >>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>> for all of us who are blind, as well as those who are not, to take a >>>>>>>>> success >>>>>>>>> inventory in the quiet of our own minds, and honestly evaluate how >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> doing in the vocation we have chosen for ourselves. She isn't >>>>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>>> and praising herself, nor is she diminishing the accomplishments of >>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>> to make herself look and feel superior. She is actually out there >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> race with sighted people, and she is winning. Too many people, >>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> blind, spend their lives preparing for the race, but they don't have >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> guts to actually get into the race. This is why they spend their >>>>>>>>> lives >>>>>>>>> hiding in school where it is safe, preparing for a race they will >>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> the courage to enter. She and her accomplishments have made me very >>>>>>>>> proud, >>>>>>>>> and this article has done more for us as blind people than anything >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have seen other blind people do, including me, in a long time. I'm >>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> write a letter to Charlie Trotter tomorrow and tell him how much I >>>>>>>>> appreciate and value his willingness and ability to see beyond >>>>>>>>> typical >>>>>>>>> stereotypes. . >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Dennis >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:48 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> The reporter used a little too much flowery rhetoric, but overall I >>>>>>>>>> thought the article was pretty good. What struck me about Ms. >>>>>>>>>> Martinez's background is that it sounds like she didn't have a lot >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the services we take for granted as a child, like Braille and O&M, >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> she didn't even go to school until age ten. I assumed that is why >>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>> has relied, and still relies, on aides, and perhaps also why she >>>>>>>>>> didn't learn about things like skin color until she was older. I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> think her being a chef is all that amazing, of course, but I am >>>>>>>>>> proud >>>>>>>>>> of her for becoming so successful after what sounded like a >>>>>>>>>> somewhat >>>>>>>>>> sheltered upbringing. >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Jewel S. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Maybe she doesn't have strong O&M...some of those schools can be >>>>>>>>>>> really big and hard to orient in. Think of your own school. It >>>>>>>>>>> probably took you awhile to learn the campus...if not, then your >>>>>>>>>>> O&M >>>>>>>>>>> skills are quite good and I applaud you. I know I am still trying >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> learn my local community college's campus, though I've already got >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> basic layout of the private college I want to attend after >>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> college..of course, the classes at the private college are in only >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> of two buildings that are connected, so that makes it pretty easy, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> anyway... >>>>>>>>>>> Saying she was lost because of the remodeling was a little >>>>>>>>>>> exaggerative, but I bet she says she got lost herself. I say I get >>>>>>>>>>> lost in a new place, and there is a store in a nearby shopping >>>>>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>>>>> that remodels almost every week, and I always say I'm lost int >>>>>>>>>>> here >>>>>>>>>>> because of their re-arranging everything. >>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/23/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I liked the article in general. I thought it was a little silly >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> she was "lost" because her parents remodeled the kitchen. I think >>>>>>>>>>>> "lost" >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> a little too strong of a word. Also...the school hired her an aid >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>>>> her get around? Seems a little odd. She is obviously successful >>>>>>>>>>>> though, >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> go her. >>>>>>>>>>>> Briley >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Andi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success >>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you >>>>>>>>>>>>> have. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>>>>>>>>> "disability" >>>>>>>>>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all >>>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on >>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>>>>>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>>>>>>>>> the quad-city times >>>>>>>>>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her >>>>>>>>>>>>> fingers >>>>>>>>>>>>> atop >>>>>>>>>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a >>>>>>>>>>>>> vegetable >>>>>>>>>>>>> grater. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moline >>>>>>>>>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>>>>>>>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>>>>>>>>> explaining >>>>>>>>>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut >>>>>>>>>>>>> meat. >>>>>>>>>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, >>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her >>>>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> touch to make >>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>>>>>>>>>>>> parsley >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>>>>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive >>>>>>>>>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>>>>>>>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different >>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>>>>>>>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>>>>>>>>> retinal >>>>>>>>>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> what caused >>>>>>>>>>>>> her blindness. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation >>>>>>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> treat >>>>>>>>>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She >>>>>>>>>>>>> uses >>>>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending >>>>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>>>> early >>>>>>>>>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> special >>>>>>>>>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spanish, >>>>>>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her >>>>>>>>>>>>> formal >>>>>>>>>>>>> education at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> age of 10. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she >>>>>>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The two spent >>>>>>>>>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> remain >>>>>>>>>>>>> very close. >>>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen >>>>>>>>>>>>> Keller >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> other people >>>>>>>>>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late >>>>>>>>>>>>> father. >>>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> quiet, >>>>>>>>>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>>>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject >>>>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people >>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>>>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she >>>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to >>>>>>>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>>>>>>>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills >>>>>>>>>>>>> classes >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>>>>>>>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago, >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as >>>>>>>>>>>>> students >>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> not everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> school's >>>>>>>>>>>>> vice >>>>>>>>>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> curriculum >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> tough. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>> school had >>>>>>>>>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he >>>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom >>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the >>>>>>>>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>>>>>>>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>>>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>>>>>>>>> cooking >>>>>>>>>>>>> at home. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he >>>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>>>>>>>>> desire" >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her >>>>>>>>>>>>> heightened >>>>>>>>>>>>> focus >>>>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can >>>>>>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your >>>>>>>>>>>>> organs. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>>>>>>>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I >>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>>>>>>>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled >>>>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything - >>>>>>>>>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her >>>>>>>>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>>>>>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>>>>>>> meat >>>>>>>>>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> debone >>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> feeding it >>>>>>>>>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they >>>>>>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>>>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," >>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>> said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>>>>>>>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening >>>>>>>>>>>>> News" >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, >>>>>>>>>>>>> CBS >>>>>>>>>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>>>>>>>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>>>> some advice. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>>>>>>>>>>>> expected >>>>>>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>>>>>> least of >>>>>>>>>>>>> all Martinez. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter >>>>>>>>>>>>> Corp., >>>>>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>>>>>>>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes >>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, >>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>> began >>>>>>>>>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> kitchen >>>>>>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>>>>>>>>>>>> sniffing >>>>>>>>>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moline. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Still dreaming >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or >>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>>>>>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>> person, >>>>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>>>> says, for food >>>>>>>>>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the >>>>>>>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> CD, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>>>>>>>>>>>> twist >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>>>>>>>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>>>>>>>>>>>> offering >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> mix >>>>>>>>>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>>>>>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>>>>>>>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving >>>>>>>>>>>>> up." >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>>>>>>>>> fight," >>>>>>>>>>>>> she added. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of >>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> peripheral >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> back, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> poor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shoot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too!), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was about five. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it from you." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dusting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> held >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> memories >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: >>>>>>>>>>> http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From dkirby at mchsi.com Sat Sep 25 07:21:53 2010 From: dkirby at mchsi.com (darrel kirby) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 02:21:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com> References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1> <723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting. I feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education and practice to become a great therapist is not learned through instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my job well and strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness is not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I thought her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very impressive. I also recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the teaching approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized the importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this woman's ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do not believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I think from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - whether she has sight or not. With all that being said, the author of the article should not be expected to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one blind person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual and her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the perfectly written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an inspirational and educational article to read. Just My Opinion, Darrel Kirby -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? Hey all, Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really have to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in my opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted assistants and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. Mary On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home in much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move around (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty southward to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the article doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hello Andy, >> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my >> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are ever >> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness is >> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I >> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its proponent >> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is >> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those >> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and this >> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that >> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could never >> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >> Happy cooking, >> Dennis > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andi" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times > >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim > >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. > >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. > >>> She never does, Martinez says. > >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." > >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. > >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >>> one. > >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > >>> She also happens to be blind. > >>> Fast learner gets inspiration > >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. > >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. > >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. > >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. > >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. > >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >>> very close. > >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. > >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. > >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. > >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >>> anything. But I don't give up." > >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. > >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. > >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. > >>> "I don't give up," she said. > >>> Culinary school brings challenges > >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. > >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >>> that would accommodate her. > >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. > >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. > >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." > >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. > >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. > >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. > >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. > >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. > >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. > >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. > >>> Still dreaming > >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. > >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. > >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >>> it some kick, she said. > >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. > >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>>> ~Jewel > >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. > >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. > >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." > >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! > >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>>> to > >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind > >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>>> it > >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I > >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held > >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>>> out > >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought > >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40 gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai l.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40g mail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcgl obal.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail. com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%40mchsi.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 12:16:00 From winy_kwany at yahoo.com Sat Sep 25 08:00:55 2010 From: winy_kwany at yahoo.com (Winy Kwany) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:00:55 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [nabs-l] embossing problem: any help? Message-ID: <802544.20490.qm@web76806.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I appologize if this sounds out of topic, but I do need help. I decide to post on this list just to find any possibilities to get any help. I use a desktop computer with Windows XP operating system, Duxbury 10.3, JAWS 10 and Index Basic 4.40 embosser that connects with a LPT port to the computer. I have problem in embossing my files. I use double sided/interpoint format to emboss. When I emboss, the first two pages look fine, but when come to third and fourth page, the embosser embossed something else that's very different from the content of the file. It's unreadable since the dots form neither words or sentences. The fifth and sixth page is fine, but it doesn't continue to emboss those who were not in the third and fourth. It's embossing its continuation. So, it means that I do lose content in third and fourth page. This pattern is repeatedly again: unreadable in the seventh and eighth page, fine in ninth and tenth, and it's on and on. I tried to use Comment Prompt to emboss the file instead of Duxbury, and the similar problem occurs. Any suggestions, ideas and help how to solve this? Any special setting that I should do to avoid this pattern? This never happened when I used Duxbury 10.4. They changed the software without letting me know. This also doesn't happen to one file. It happens to any BRF or DXB files that I have. I look forward to hearing from you very soon. Please give me feetback asap since I need to emboss materials and exercises urgently. Many thanks. Winy. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 09:16:25 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 03:16:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1> <723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com> <665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> Message-ID: Darrel, You said exactly what I wanted to. You're just better at it. Jedi, Fair enough, but you needed the training, even if the hardest part was overcoming the stereotypes. Because we live in such a social world, I think it's fair to say those social attitudes are, unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. There's no way a blind person's not going to encounter those so, to me, that's a part of blindness. Which means, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had stereotypes to get past the typical sighted person does not. In that way, there was an extra step in you learning how to cook. So...I'm not trying to generalize how quickly you learn how to cook, I'm just saying blindness presents an extra challenge with it, even if that challenge for you was mostly psychological. Am I making any sense? Respectfully yours, Kirt On 9/25/10, darrel kirby wrote: > I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting. I > feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job > well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the > Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things > like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite > ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education and > practice to become a great therapist is not learned through > instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my job well and > strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness is > not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. > > However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I thought > her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very impressive. I also > recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people > have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the teaching > approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the > techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized the > importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this woman's > ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from > "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do not > believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a > "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I think > from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - > whether she has sight or not. > With all that being said, the author of the article should not be expected > to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one blind > person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual and > her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the perfectly > written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an inspirational > and educational article to read. > > Just My Opinion, > > Darrel Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > Hey all, > Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly > understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. > Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's > circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting > appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really have > to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in my > opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted assistants > and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out > and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching > for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many > articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being > careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. > Mary > On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were > attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that > the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home in > much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move around > (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty southward > to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the article > doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition > between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all > about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where > Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted > mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> Hello Andy, >>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my >>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are > ever >>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness > is >>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I >>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its > proponent >>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is >>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for > those >>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and > this >>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that >>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could > never >>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>> Happy cooking, >>> Dennis >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Andi" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also > been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of > someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the > blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel > about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers > atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she > is >>>> one. >> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an > exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. >> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to > treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, > English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they > remain >>>> very close. >> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the > quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have > different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>>> school. >> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or > do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes > for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students > but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>> tough. >> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came > to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might > impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers > could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a > way >>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>>> at home. >> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" > to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened > focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe > it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think > that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>> Braille. >> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to > debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned > where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" > to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>> some advice. >> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., > said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the > kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, > sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just > the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>> Still dreaming >> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, > but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to > give >>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a > mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>>> she added. >> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going > sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going > with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is > fine >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able > to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus > make >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though > I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of > the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work > them >>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind > people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus > hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40 > gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai > l.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40g > mail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcgl > obal.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%40mchsi.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 > 12:16:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 16:06:03 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 10:06:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1><723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com><665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> Message-ID: For me, Kirt, the key sentence in your response is the following: Because we live in such a social world, I think it's fair to say those social attitudes are, unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. There's a bit of ambiguity here. If you mean such attitudes are a part of our society today, at this moment, then I doubt that many would disagree. But if you mean that such attitudes are necessarily, inevitably, must always be, a part of our society, then this is the point of disagreement I think. I don't think such attitudes are necessarily part of our society. There is evidence drawn from other civil rights movements, and from the organized blind movement itself, that significant progress can be, and still is being, made. So in so far as an article like the one in question fails to emphasize the social barriers that impede the success of blind people, it is problematic and should be questioned and challenged. Note the phrase, in so far as. I don't think anyone is saying that the article can't be helpful in some ways. This article might inspire a blind person who has come to believe that she is inadequate and can't do anything, or the article might cause some employers to judge potential employees based on their skills, as did the employer in the article. However, these possible benefits of such an article do not mean that there aren't serious problems with it as well. Whether an article like this does more harm than good, I'm not sure if any critical comments have claimed, so I think that's still an open question. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Darrel, > You said exactly what I wanted to. You're just better at it. > Jedi, > Fair enough, but you needed the training, even if the hardest part > was overcoming the stereotypes. Because we live in such a social > world, I think it's fair to say those social attitudes are, > unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. There's no way a > blind person's not going to encounter those so, to me, that's a part > of blindness. Which means, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had > stereotypes to get past the typical sighted person does not. In that > way, there was an extra step in you learning how to cook. So...I'm > not trying to generalize how quickly you learn how to cook, I'm just > saying blindness presents an extra challenge with it, even if that > challenge for you was mostly psychological. Am I making any sense? > Respectfully yours, > Kirt > > On 9/25/10, darrel kirby wrote: >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting. >> I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education >> and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness >> is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I >> thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very impressive. I >> also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the >> teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized >> the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this >> woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not be >> expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one >> blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual >> and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the >> perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really >> have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in >> my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home >> in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move >> around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty >> southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the >> article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in >>>> my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. >>>> Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When >>>> I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person >>>> is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know >>>> that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>> was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>> I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how >>>>> to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>> Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>> explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>> feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>> with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>> it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>> retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>> early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind >>>>> or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>> McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>> situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>> and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up >>>>> at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>> told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>> for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>> vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>> came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>> cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>> desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>> She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>> of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>> meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>> feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>> said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>> that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>> he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>> began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>> that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to >>>>> an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>> place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>> fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>> with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>> the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>> poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>> go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>> same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>> it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>> ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>> able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>> though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%40mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 25 19:02:06 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:02:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] embossing problem: any help? References: <802544.20490.qm@web76806.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a7801cb5ce4$2619b930$6601a8c0@server> Hello, This is just a guess. I think the handshaking between your printer and computer are not set correctly or are not functioning. The computer can send data to your printer much faster than your printer can print. Handshaking is the way the printer tells the computer once the printers buffer is full, to pause sending data until the printer empties its buffer and gets caught up. At that point the printer tells the computer that it has caught up, so send some more data until the printer again tells the computer to stop sending. There are 2 kinds of handshaking, hardware and software. Hardware handshaking is done over 2 wires in the cable which connects to the printer. Software handshaking is done by the printer sending a particular computer character, control x or control y, to the computer, which essentially says, please send data, or please stop sending data until I get caught up. Both the computer and printer need to be set to use handshaking, and they each need to be set to use the same handshaking, either hardware or software. Did this ever work correctly, and if so, what might have happened which could have cause any settings to have been changed? Please feel free to send me more information or questions. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Winy Kwany" To: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:00 AM Subject: [nabs-l] embossing problem: any help? > Hi all, > I appologize if this sounds out of topic, but I do need help. I decide to > post on this list just to find any possibilities to get any help. > I use a desktop computer with Windows XP operating system, Duxbury 10.3, > JAWS 10 and Index Basic 4.40 embosser that connects with a LPT port to the > computer. I have problem in embossing my files. I use double > sided/interpoint format to emboss. When I emboss, the first two pages look > fine, but when come to third and fourth page, the embosser embossed > something else that's very different from the content of the file. It's > unreadable since the dots form neither words or sentences. The fifth and > sixth page is fine, but it doesn't continue to emboss those who were not > in the third and fourth. It's embossing its continuation. So, it means > that I do lose content in third and fourth page. This pattern is > repeatedly again: unreadable in the seventh and eighth page, fine in ninth > and tenth, and it's on and on. I tried to use Comment Prompt to emboss the > file instead of Duxbury, and the similar problem occurs. Any suggestions, > ideas and help how to solve this? Any > special setting that I should do to avoid this pattern? This never > happened when I used Duxbury 10.4. They changed the software without > letting me know. This also doesn't happen to one file. It happens to any > BRF or DXB files that I have. > I look forward to hearing from you very soon. Please give me feetback asap > since I need to emboss materials and exercises urgently. Many thanks. > Winy. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Sep 26 01:17:16 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 18:17:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: math textbook question Message-ID: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini To: solsticesinger Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question Are you a college student? ----- Original Message ----- From: solsticesinger To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question Rachel, I would suggest a reader, since it seems the only viable option. You might talk to the disability services department at your school, and see if they'll put the diagrams into some sort of tactile format for you. Good luck. Shannon Are you a fan of women's music? If so, check out the Eclectic Collection: A Celebration of Women In Music, each Wednesday evening from 7 to 9 eastern. www.radio360.us ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Becker" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:15 PM Subject: [nabs-l] math textbook question What do you do when you have to take a math class and can't find the textbook in Braille? I searched the APH Louis database for the book but it's not there. One source said that it will cost $6000 to get the chapters that I need Brailled. The state agency suggested that I use a reader. Do you think that using a reader would be a good solution for working with diagrams? Do you have any sugestions for dealing with a situation like this? Thanks. Rachel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From mikaelastevens at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 04:14:14 2010 From: mikaelastevens at gmail.com (Mikaela Stevens) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 22:14:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: math textbook question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes I am a college student. This math class is for my associates. On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini < ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote: > Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini > To: solsticesinger > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question > > > Are you a college student? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: solsticesinger > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] math textbook question > > > Rachel, > > I would suggest a reader, since it seems the only viable option. You might > talk to the disability services department at your school, and see if > they'll put the diagrams into some sort of tactile format for you. > > Good luck. > > Shannon > Are you a fan of women's music? If so, check out the Eclectic Collection: > A > Celebration of Women In Music, each Wednesday evening from 7 to 9 eastern. > www.radio360.us > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Becker" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:15 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] math textbook question > > > What do you do when you have to take a math class and can't find the > textbook in Braille? I searched the APH Louis database for the book but > it's > not there. One source said that it will cost $6000 to get the chapters > that > I need Brailled. The state agency suggested that I use a reader. Do you > think that using a reader would be a good solution for working with > diagrams? Do you have any sugestions for dealing with a situation like > this? > Thanks. > Rachel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40gmail.com > -- Mikaela Stevens BYU-Idaho Student 208-585-8468 From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 04:31:00 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 22:31:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1> <723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com> <665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> Message-ID: It's true that incredible progress has been made in terms of social attitudes towards blind people. And, I agree that if we're looking at other civil rights' movements as a model, we can make so much more incredible progress. But I don't ever see a time where negative stereotypes about blind people are completely gone. I just don't. All the best, Kirt On 9/25/10, Marc Workman wrote: > For me, Kirt, the key sentence in your response is the following: > > Because we live in such a social world, I think it's fair to say those > social attitudes are, unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. > > There's a bit of ambiguity here. If you mean such attitudes are a part of > our society today, at this moment, then I doubt that many would disagree. > But if you mean that such attitudes are necessarily, inevitably, must always > be, a part of our society, then this is the point of disagreement I think. > I don't think such attitudes are necessarily part of our society. There is > evidence drawn from other civil rights movements, and from the organized > blind movement itself, that significant progress can be, and still is being, > made. > > So in so far as an article like the one in question fails to emphasize the > social barriers that impede the success of blind people, it is problematic > and should be questioned and challenged. Note the phrase, in so far as. I > don't think anyone is saying that the article can't be helpful in some ways. > This article might inspire a blind person who has come to believe that she > is inadequate and can't do anything, or the article might cause some > employers to judge potential employees based on their skills, as did the > employer in the article. However, these possible benefits of such an > article do not mean that there aren't serious problems with it as well. > Whether an article like this does more harm than good, I'm not sure if any > critical comments have claimed, so I think that's still an open question. > > Best, > > Marc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> You said exactly what I wanted to. You're just better at it. >> Jedi, >> Fair enough, but you needed the training, even if the hardest part >> was overcoming the stereotypes. Because we live in such a social >> world, I think it's fair to say those social attitudes are, >> unfortunately, a part of blindness in our society. There's no way a >> blind person's not going to encounter those so, to me, that's a part >> of blindness. Which means, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had >> stereotypes to get past the typical sighted person does not. In that >> way, there was an extra step in you learning how to cook. So...I'm >> not trying to generalize how quickly you learn how to cook, I'm just >> saying blindness presents an extra challenge with it, even if that >> challenge for you was mostly psychological. Am I making any sense? >> Respectfully yours, >> Kirt >> >> On 9/25/10, darrel kirby wrote: >>> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting. >>> I >>> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >>> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >>> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >>> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >>> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education >>> and >>> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >>> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my job well and >>> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness >>> is >>> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >>> >>> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I >>> thought >>> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very impressive. I >>> also >>> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >>> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the >>> teaching >>> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >>> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized >>> the >>> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this >>> woman's >>> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >>> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do not >>> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >>> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I think >>> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >>> whether she has sight or not. >>> With all that being said, the author of the article should not be >>> expected >>> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one >>> blind >>> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual >>> and >>> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the >>> perfectly >>> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >>> inspirational >>> and educational article to read. >>> >>> Just My Opinion, >>> >>> Darrel Kirby >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Mary Fernandez >>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> Hey all, >>> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >>> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. >>> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >>> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >>> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really >>> have >>> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in >>> >>> my >>> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >>> assistants >>> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out >>> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching >>> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >>> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >>> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >>> Mary >>> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >>> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that >>> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home >>> in >>> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move >>> around >>> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty >>> southward >>> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the >>> article >>> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >>> between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all >>> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >>> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >>> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hello Andy, >>>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in >>>>> my >>>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are >>> ever >>>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. >>>>> Blindness >>> is >>>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When >>>>> I >>>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >>> proponent >>>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person >>>>> is >>>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >>> those >>>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and >>> this >>>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >>>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know >>>>> that >>>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >>> never >>>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>>> Happy cooking, >>>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Andi" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but >>>>>> was >>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also >>> been >>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. >>>>>> I >>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>>>>> "disability" >>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>> someone >>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>> blind >>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>> about >>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how >>>>>> to >>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>> atop >>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>> grater. >>>> >>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of >>>>>> Moline >>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, >>>>>> explaining >>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>> >>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she >>>>>> feels >>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>>>>> touch to make >>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley >>>>>> with >>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she >>> is >>>>>> one. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to >>>>>> it. >>>> >>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with >>>>>> retinal >>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>>>>> what caused >>>>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her >>>>>> early >>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind >>>>>> or >>>>>> special >>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>> education at the >>>>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam >>>>>> McDermott. >>>>>> The two spent >>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>> remain >>>>>> very close. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing >>>>>> situations >>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller >>>>>> and >>>>>> other people >>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up >>>>>> at >>>>>> school. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who >>>>>> told >>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>> >>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or >>> do >>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities >>>>>> for >>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes >>> for >>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>> challenge. >>>> >>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students >>> but >>>>>> not everyone >>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's >>>>>> vice >>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>>>>> tough. >>>> >>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it >>>>>> came >>> to >>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>> school had >>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>> >>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>>>>> present >>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a >>> way >>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than >>>>>> cooking >>>>>> at home. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. >>>> >>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and >>>>>> desire" >>> to >>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>>>>> via >>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe >>> it >>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. >>>>>> She >>>>>> just >>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>>>>> Braille. >>>> >>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense >>>>>> of >>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether >>>>>> meat >>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>> feeding it >>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and >>>>>> feel >>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>> where >>>>>> and what >>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she >>>>>> said. >>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" >>> to >>>>>> feature >>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>>>>> some advice. >>>> >>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected >>>>>> that, >>>>>> least of >>>>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>> said >>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which >>>>>> he >>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she >>>>>> began >>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>> kitchen >>>>>> and the >>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>> sniffing >>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. >>>> >>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just >>> the >>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>>>>> says, for food >>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food >>>>>> that >>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, >>> but >>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to >>>>>> an >>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to >>> give >>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a >>> mix >>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the >>>>>> place >>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>> >>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to >>>>>> fight," >>>>>> she added. >>>> >>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my >>>>>>> poor >>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work >>>>>>> go, >>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>> was about five. >>>> >>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>> I'll >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> it from you." >>>> >>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without >>>>>>>> it! >>>> >>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it >>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>> sighted >>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going >>> with >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is >>> fine >>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being >>>>>>>>> able >>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> mind >>>> >>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >>> make >>>>>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? >>>>>>>>> though >>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>>>>> when I >>>> >>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> held >>>> >>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >>> the >>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>> them >>>>>>>>> out >>>> >>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>> people >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I >>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>> hoping >>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>>>>> brought >>>> >>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40 >>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40g >>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcgl >>> obal.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail. >>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%40mchsi.com >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >>> 12:16:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 14:47:30 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:47:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games In-Reply-To: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu> References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely sold on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, but the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of enjoyment may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of luck in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good uses for your laboratories. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games Hi NABS list, Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a good model. So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's Youth Slam! Thanks, Chrys http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 01:01:02 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:01:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games In-Reply-To: <6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus> References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu> <6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus> Message-ID: <96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty good. You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely sold > on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, but > the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think > it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of enjoyment > may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of luck > in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good uses > for your laboratories. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > Hi NABS list, > > Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, > please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility > project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if > you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! > > > My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a > software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual > science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a > big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would > play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen > every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are > unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a > good model. > > So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey > the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the > development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just > not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! > > This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's > Youth Slam! > > Thanks, > Chrys > > > > http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 15:49:23 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:49:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Listening Experience Is About To Change For The Better Starting Tonight! References: <2051E3B8A1D449A59A04CE59F8F67E63@Pinkerton> Message-ID: <89A34F5BA6A1415A92464F98E9CC7565@radio360usa> Hello All! Nobody likes Mondays after a fun weekend, but you'll like this Monday, as tonight, I give you another thrill ride that is The Djd Invasion. Join us, that is, me and my co hosting team, starting at 8 PM eastern on ShockWaveRadio for what should be a great show, especially if you like country, 70's and 80's pop, some oldies sprinkled in, and just general good old musical variety! And I think we'll have variety this evening, for tonight, I can finally unleash on the world what should make this and future Djd Invasion shows truly interactive! Normally, I give you my contact details such as the email, aim and msn info of liveradio at shockwaveradio.net for making requests, and you can still use said details to get in touch. But why gamble that you'll make a request I don't have? Why be disappointed when you ask for a song, only to discover "I'm sorry, I don't have the tune you want." Don't you just hate calling in/writing in to your favorite radio show, just to discover that your song can't be played cause the dj can't find it? >From now on during a Djd Invasion show, you can make requests, and know with confidence that the songs you request will be played, for if you can find it when searching for the tune you want, you'll know I have it! Hear how this online jukebox of sorts will work, and give it a spin during this evening's program! And look at it this way, you don't need to insert coins into a slot for this dj to play that funky music that you want to hear! As stated above, you can get in touch in the usual ways, and/or skype in at shockwaveradio1 or call in at 516-209-3796 during the program when the lines are open. Between the variety, the commentary, this exciting new way to handle song requests, I bet tonight's show will be thrilling and fun! So why not tune in? Save this email, and at 8 PM eastern, or at any time between 8 and midnight, head on over to http://is.gd/eaRnd and join in the fun! You'll be glad you did!Bring your energy, love for music, and your requests! >From Djd, host of The Djd Invasion on ShockWaveRadio http://www.shockwaveradio.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 16:54:46 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:54:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games In-Reply-To: <96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com> References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu> <6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus> <96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and Yahtzee (among others. I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into walls all the time? I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty good. > You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. > On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >> sold >> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, but >> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think >> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of enjoyment >> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of luck >> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >> uses >> for your laboratories. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> Hi NABS list, >> >> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >> >> >> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >> good model. >> >> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >> >> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >> Youth Slam! >> >> Thanks, >> Chrys >> >> >> >> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Sep 27 23:15:54 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:15:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature Message-ID: Hi all, I use Windows xp and jaws 11. My MS word still has menus since I haven't updated. How do I read the comments in word documents? How do I insert comments in an existing document? Thanks! From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Sep 28 01:46:19 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:46:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu><6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus><96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF@stanford.edu> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest > in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's > castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to > Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). > My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA > Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, > also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out > there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and > Yahtzee (among others. > > I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just > confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the > Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out > sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think > it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of > practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into > walls all the time? > > I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* > > On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >> good. >> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>> sold >>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>> but >>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think >>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>> enjoyment >>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>> luck >>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>> uses >>> for your laboratories. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> Hi NABS list, >>> >>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>> >>> >>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>> good model. >>> >>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>> >>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>> Youth Slam! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Chrys >>> >>> >>> >>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 02:23:56 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:23:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu><6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus><96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com> <5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF@stanford.edu> Message-ID: What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel S." > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >> Yahtzee (among others. >> >> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >> walls all the time? >> >> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >> >> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>> good. >>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>>> sold >>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>> but >>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>> think >>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>> enjoyment >>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>> luck >>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>> uses >>>> for your laboratories. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> Hi NABS list, >>>> >>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>> >>>> >>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>> good model. >>>> >>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>> >>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>> Youth Slam! >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chrys >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Sep 28 02:27:59 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:27:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu><6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus><96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com><5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at www.gmagames.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel S." >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>> Yahtzee (among others. >>> >>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>> walls all the time? >>> >>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>> >>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>> good. >>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>> >>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>> completely >>>>> sold >>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>> but >>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>> think >>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>> enjoyment >>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>> luck >>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>> uses >>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>> sleeves, >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>> >>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>> good model. >>>>> >>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>> >>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chrys >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 02:39:02 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:39:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games In-Reply-To: References: <20100922110640.13971w87pirbkcz4@webmail.pdx.edu> <6427CFD17583493E9D32A8C9E7453CD9@Rufus> <96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64@gmail.com> <5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Have any of you ever played termite torpedo? I had it on my computer when I was little. I could never figure it out, but I never really tried too hard. My sighted friends used to get confused because they had to use the arrow keys and things to kill the termites. Lol! On 9/27/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is > available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at > www.gmagames.com. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>> >>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>> walls all the time? >>>> >>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>> >>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>> good. >>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>> completely >>>>>> sold >>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>> but >>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>> think >>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>> luck >>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>>> uses >>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>>> good model. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>> >>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chrys >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From MRiccobono at nfb.org Tue Sep 28 02:46:17 2010 From: MRiccobono at nfb.org (Riccobono, Mark) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:46:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI Youth Message-ID: Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI Youth Do you know an exceptional student who would benefit from a unique travel and leadership program? Nominate that student for the Global Explorers Leading the Way program at http://www.globalexplorers.org/programs/forms/nominate/grandcanyon/. Developed in partnership with world-renowned blind athlete Erik Weihenmayer, Leading the Way brings together blind and sighted youth ages 14-21 for a once-in-a-lifetime adventure combining leadership, science, culture, and service. Specifically, the program aims to achieve the following: · Provide unparalleled leadership skills by learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. · Develop confidence, independence, self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. · Promote peer relationships am --------- ong youth of different backgrounds and abilities. · Equip participants with the tools they need to step up and make a difference in the world. · Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. · Spread messages of hope by breaking down barriers between those with and without disabilities. Our summer 2011 Leading the Way destination is one of the 7 Natural Wonders of the World – the majestic Grand Canyon! To learn more or to apply, please visit www.globalexplorers.org and click "Leading the Way." The application deadline is Monday, November 15. For more information, please contact Laura at laura at globalexplorers.org or 877.627.1425. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Riccobono, Mark <MRiccobono at nfb.org> wrote: Dear Laura, Please send an e-mail announcement we can send around. Mark ---------- From: Laura Portalupi [mailto:laura at globalexplorers.org] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:24 PM To: Riccobono, Mark Subject: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program Dear Mark: My colleague Shannon has been in contact with you the past two years about the Global Explorers Leading the Way program. I'd like to introduce myself as the coordinator of Leading the Way for 2010-2011. I am so impressed with the work of the Jernigan Institute and feel our program closely aligns with the Institute's mission. Developed in partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer Erik Weihenmayer, the Global Explorers Leading the Way program joins blind, visually impaired, and sighted individuals between the ages of 14 and 21 for the adventure of a lifetime. Leading the Way integrates science, service, leadership, and culture in a 3-phase program that includes pre-travel preparatory curriculum, a life-changing travel experience, and a follow-up service leadership project. Specifically, the program aims to achieve the following: · Provide unparalleled leadership skills by learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. · Develop confidence, independence, self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. · Promote peer relationships among youth of different backgrounds and abilities. · Equip participants with the tools they need to step up and make a difference in the world. · Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. · Spread messages of hope by breaking down barriers between those with and without disabilities. Our summer 2011 destination is the majestic Grand Canyon. The application deadline is Monday, November 15. Would you be willing to share information about Leading the Way among your network? If so, I can provide you with an announcement for distribution via e-mail. I can also send you informational fliers as an attachment or via snail mail. Braille and large print materials are available upon request. Thank you so much for your time and assistance! I look forward to hearing from you. Kind regards, Laura Portalupi Leading the Way Fellow Global Explorers 420 S. Howes St. Suite B300 Fort Collins, CO 80521 (office) 877.627.1425 (fax) 970.672.1073 www.globalexplorers.org "This is a life-changing trip ... you will walk away as a different person." -Leading the Way Rim to River Participant, 2010 From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 15:38:18 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:38:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1><723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com> <665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> Message-ID: <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636@Rufus> Darrel, I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what blind people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we can't count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than to continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and unemployable? I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in so much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent need to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a waste of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the Braille Monitor... Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want the public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey a more positive image? Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very interesting. I feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my education and practice to become a great therapist is not learned through instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my job well and strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that blindness is not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this woman. I thought her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very impressive. I also recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about the teaching approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also recognized the importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing this woman's ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is extraordnary. I do not believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, but I think from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - whether she has sight or not. With all that being said, the author of the article should not be expected to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments with one blind person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this individual and her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not the perfectly written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an inspirational and educational article to read. Just My Opinion, Darrel Kirby -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? Hey all, Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly understand how strong and incredible this woman is. Think about it. Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and you really have to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this article in my opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted assistants and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your hands out and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her searching for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. Mary On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or hear, and that the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school and home in much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to move around (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's pretty southward to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. While the article doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition between her real capability and what people really think blindness is all about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hello Andy, >> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go South but in my >> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally blind are ever >> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has done. Blindness is >> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it isn't. When I >> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its proponent >> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No sighted person is >> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for those >> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely exclusive, and this >> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as having the >> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted people know that >> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could never >> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >> Happy cooking, >> Dennis > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andi" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans success but was >>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I have also been >>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of you have. I >>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a "disability" >>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of someone >>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have trouble doing. >>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the blind >>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel about >>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any sugjestions on how to >>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? > > >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>> the quad-city times > >>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO > >>> Blind chef gains national acclaim > >>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am > >>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers atop >>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>> grater. > >>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. > >>> She never does, Martinez says. > >>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. > >>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former resident of Moline >>> softly says. "It has ridges." > >>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it up, explaining >>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. > >>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. So, she feels >>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using her sense of >>> touch to make >>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. > >>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the parsley with >>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - because she is >>> one. > >>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an exclusive >>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. > >>> She also happens to be blind. > >>> Fast learner gets inspiration > >>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She adapted to it. > >>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. > >>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. > >>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed with retinal >>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young child. That is >>> what caused >>> her blindness. > >>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to treat >>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. > >>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. > >>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. She uses her >>> active imagination instead. > >>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after spending her early >>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for the blind or >>> special >>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>> three-hour car ride away. > >>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, English >>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>> education at the >>> age of 10. > >>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, Pam McDermott. >>> The two spent >>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they remain >>> very close. > >>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, describing situations >>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer Helen Keller and >>> other people >>> who overcame life's challenges. > >>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her late father. > >>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the quiet, >>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have different >>> skin >>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the subject came up at >>> school. > >>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced people who told >>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. > >>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid to talk or do >>> anything. But I don't give up." > >>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of possibilities for >>> her, Martinez said. > >>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take life-skills classes for >>> the blind. She took community college classes. > >>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. > >>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? > >>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to > >>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>> challenge. > >>> "I don't give up," she said. > >>> Culinary school brings challenges > >>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago, an >>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted as students but >>> not everyone >>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the school's vice >>> president of academic affairs and student services. The curriculum is >>> tough. > >>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" when it came to >>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>> school had >>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. > >>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might impact >>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers could >>> present >>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but do so in a way >>> that would accommodate her. > >>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced environment of >>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different than cooking >>> at home. > >>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more fire," he said. > >>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive and desire" to >>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened focus >>> via >>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." > >>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I can describe it >>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on your organs. She >>> just >>> has that delicate way with a knife." > >>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think that's >>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." > >>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She labeled things in >>> Braille. > >>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses her sense of >>> smell to figure >>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine whether meat >>> and other dishes are done. > >>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to debone >>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>> feeding it >>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their eyes and feel >>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned where >>> and what >>> to cut, Martinez said. > >>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like Jell-O," she said. >>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." > >>> An article about the school's first blind student was published in the >>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS Evening News" to >>> feature >>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. > >>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and maybe give her >>> some advice. > >>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a chef at his >>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one expected that, >>> least of >>> all Martinez. > >>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." > >>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., said >>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's > >>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two attributes which he >>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. > >>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week later, she began >>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the kitchen >>> and the >>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. > >>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, sniffing >>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home in Moline. > >>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, hunting for just the >>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. > >>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. > >>> Still dreaming > >>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>> Moline. She is lost >>> because her family recently remodeled. > >>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. > >>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her hands, which she >>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted person, she >>> says, for food >>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches the food that >>> she cooks a lot. > >>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or recorded on CD, but >>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special twist to an >>> old favorite. >>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her lasagna, just to give >>> it some kick, she said. > >>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, offering a mix >>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would call the place >>> La Diosa, >>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." > >>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." > >>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the energy to fight," >>> she added. > >>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " > >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > >>>> Hi, > >>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>>> ~Jewel > >>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>>>> started learning how to use the cane. > >>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>>>> time I >>>>> was about five. > >>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>>>> take >>>>> it from you." > >>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! > >>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>>>> since. >>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>>>> has >>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to >>>>>> alert >>>>>> us >>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>>>> to > >>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>>>> mind > >>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>>>> it > >>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>>>> email: >>>>>> Is >>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>>>> know >>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>>>> while >>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that >>>>>> when I > >>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>>>> held > >>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>>>> out > >>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>>>> and >>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >>>>>> gives >>>>>> me >>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>>>> people >>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>>>> know >>>>>> in >>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>>>> advanced >>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>>>> might >>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>>>> brought > >>>>>> on recently. >>>>>> Gerardo > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. waterbury%40 gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt ykat2%40gmai l.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne .dempsey%40g mail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc lark%40sbcgl obal.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin djedi%40samo bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian 551%40gmail. com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 0mchsi.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 12:16:00 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 15:44:11 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:44:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636@Rufus> References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1><723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com><665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636@Rufus> Message-ID: The solution is, we need blind reporters. This way, we can have stories about the blind reported in a manner that portrays the story the way we want. Does any one know of a blind reporter that works for a large news outlet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Darrel, > > I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical > when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) > > I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not > chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain > extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what > blind > people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we > can't > count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to > hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than > to > continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and > unemployable? > > I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in > so > much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent > need > to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I > personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from > high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If > people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a > waste > of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the > Braille Monitor... > > Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want > the > public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey > a > more positive image? > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very > interesting. I > feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job > well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the > Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things > like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite > ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my > education and > practice to become a great therapist is not learned through > instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my > job well and > strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that > blindness is > not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. > > However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this > woman. I thought > her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very > impressive. I also > recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people > have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about > the teaching > approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the > techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also > recognized the > importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing > this woman's > ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from > "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is > extraordnary. I do not > believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a > "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, > but I think > from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - > whether she has sight or not. > With all that being said, the author of the article should not > be expected > to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments > with one blind > person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this > individual and > her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not > the perfectly > written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an > inspirational > and educational article to read. > > Just My Opinion, > > Darrel Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > Hey all, > Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly > understand how strong and incredible this woman is. > Think about it. > Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's > circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting > appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and > you really have > to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this > article in my > opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted > assistants > and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your > hands out > and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her > searching > for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many > articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being > careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. > Mary > On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were > attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or > hear, and that > the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school > and home in > much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to > move around > (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's > pretty southward > to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. > While the article > doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition > between her real capability and what people really think > blindness is all > about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where > Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted > mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> Hello Andy, >>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go > South but in my >>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally > blind are > ever >>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has > done. Blindness > is >>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it > isn't. When I >>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its > proponent >>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No > sighted person is >>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for > those >>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely > exclusive, and > this >>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as > having the >>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted > people know that >>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could > never >>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>> Happy cooking, >>> Dennis >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Andi" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans > success but was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I > have also > been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of > you have. I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a > "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of > someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have > trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the > blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel > about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any > sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers > atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former > resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it > up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. > So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using > her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the > parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - > because she > is >>>> one. >> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an > exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She > adapted to it. >> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed > with retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young > child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to > treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. > She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after > spending her early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for > the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, > English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, > Pam McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they > remain >>>> very close. >> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, > describing situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer > Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her > late father. >> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the > quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have > different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the > subject came up at >>>> school. >> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced > people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid > to talk or > do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of > possibilities for >>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take > life-skills classes > for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in > Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted > as students > but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the > school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The > curriculum is >>>> tough. >> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" > when it came > to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might > impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers > could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but > do so in a > way >>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced > environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different > than cooking >>>> at home. >> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more > fire," he said. >> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive > and desire" > to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened > focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I > can describe > it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on > your organs. She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think > that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She > labeled things in >>>> Braille. >> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses > her sense of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine > whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to > debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their > eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned > where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like > Jell-O," she said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was > published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS > Evening News" > to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and > maybe give her >>>> some advice. >> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a > chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one > expected that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., > said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two > attributes which he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week > later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the > kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, > sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home > in Moline. >> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, > hunting for just > the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>> Still dreaming >> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her > hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted > person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches > the food that >>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or > recorded on CD, > but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special > twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her > lasagna, just to > give >>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, > offering a > mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would > call the place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the > energy to fight," >>>> she added. >> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. > However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my > friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually > does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no > peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I > would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, > etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and > things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of > us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely > to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, > looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly > because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let > that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, > and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane > at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel > free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I > don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter > how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding > (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted > guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three > years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use > it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around > without it! >> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been > using it ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going > sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom > I'm going > with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus > doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this > technique is > fine >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same > time being able > to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might > not have the >>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route > following, thus > make >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending > in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in > using it? though > I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a > bad experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years > ago in that >>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having > it dusting, I >>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because > memories of > the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work > them >>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you > guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind > people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here > in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when > using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making > the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another > country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things > because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. > some day I hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus > hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which > more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating > our roots >>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. > waterbury%40 > gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmai > l.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne > .dempsey%40g > mail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc > lark%40sbcgl > obal.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin > djedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian > 551%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 > 0mchsi.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 > 12:16:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 16:05:15 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:05:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? In-Reply-To: <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636@Rufus> References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1><723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com><665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636@Rufus> Message-ID: <7855B9B9D46646BFB0DEEEDD4E53D90B@MarcPC> Joe asked, isn't it better for the public to hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than to continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and unemployable? Marc says, I haven't gone back to reread the posts on this, but I think it's worth noting that, if I recall correctly, no one said the story shouldn't have been written. It's possible to be critical of a story like this, and yet to believe that, overall, it's good that the story was written and printed. I don't think there's as much disagreement as it might seem. One can be critical and yet believe the story is good, and another can praise the story and yet believe it's not perfect. These are the positions I see being chalked out. There is a benefit to being critical of these sorts of stories; for as we go on to have stories written about us, or as we write stories ourselves, we will be in a better position to make sure that certain mistakes are not made again, that the stories are even better. If the criticism is motivated by envy, then we might have a problem, but I don't think that's what's driving any of the critical voices on this list. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Darrel, > > I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical > when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) > > I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not > chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain > extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what > blind > people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we > can't > count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to > hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than > to > continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and > unemployable? > > I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in > so > much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent > need > to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I > personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from > high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If > people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a > waste > of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the > Braille Monitor... > > Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want > the > public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey > a > more positive image? > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very > interesting. I > feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job > well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the > Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things > like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite > ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my > education and > practice to become a great therapist is not learned through > instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my > job well and > strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that > blindness is > not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. > > However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this > woman. I thought > her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very > impressive. I also > recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people > have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about > the teaching > approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the > techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also > recognized the > importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing > this woman's > ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from > "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is > extraordnary. I do not > believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a > "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, > but I think > from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - > whether she has sight or not. > With all that being said, the author of the article should not > be expected > to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments > with one blind > person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this > individual and > her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not > the perfectly > written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an > inspirational > and educational article to read. > > Just My Opinion, > > Darrel Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > Hey all, > Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly > understand how strong and incredible this woman is. > Think about it. > Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's > circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting > appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and > you really have > to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this > article in my > opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted > assistants > and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your > hands out > and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her > searching > for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many > articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being > careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. > Mary > On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were > attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or > hear, and that > the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school > and home in > much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to > move around > (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's > pretty southward > to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. > While the article > doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition > between her real capability and what people really think > blindness is all > about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where > Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted > mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> Hello Andy, >>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go > South but in my >>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally > blind are > ever >>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has > done. Blindness > is >>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it > isn't. When I >>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its > proponent >>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No > sighted person is >>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for > those >>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely > exclusive, and > this >>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as > having the >>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted > people know that >>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could > never >>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>> Happy cooking, >>> Dennis >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Andi" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans > success but was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I > have also > been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of > you have. I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a > "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of > someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have > trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the > blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel > about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any > sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers > atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former > resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it > up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. > So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using > her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the > parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - > because she > is >>>> one. >> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an > exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She > adapted to it. >> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed > with retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young > child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to > treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. > She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after > spending her early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for > the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, > English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, > Pam McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they > remain >>>> very close. >> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, > describing situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer > Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her > late father. >> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the > quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have > different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the > subject came up at >>>> school. >> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced > people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid > to talk or > do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of > possibilities for >>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take > life-skills classes > for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in > Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted > as students > but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the > school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The > curriculum is >>>> tough. >> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" > when it came > to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might > impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers > could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but > do so in a > way >>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced > environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different > than cooking >>>> at home. >> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more > fire," he said. >> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive > and desire" > to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened > focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I > can describe > it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on > your organs. She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think > that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She > labeled things in >>>> Braille. >> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses > her sense of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine > whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to > debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their > eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned > where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like > Jell-O," she said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was > published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS > Evening News" > to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and > maybe give her >>>> some advice. >> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a > chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one > expected that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., > said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two > attributes which he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week > later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the > kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, > sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home > in Moline. >> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, > hunting for just > the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>> Still dreaming >> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her > hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted > person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches > the food that >>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or > recorded on CD, > but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special > twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her > lasagna, just to > give >>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, > offering a > mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would > call the place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the > energy to fight," >>>> she added. >> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. > However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my > friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually > does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no > peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I > would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, > etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and > things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of > us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely > to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, > looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly > because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let > that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, > and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane > at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel > free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I > don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter > how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding > (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted > guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three > years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use > it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around > without it! >> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been > using it ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going > sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom > I'm going > with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus > doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this > technique is > fine >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same > time being able > to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might > not have the >>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route > following, thus > make >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending > in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in > using it? though > I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a > bad experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years > ago in that >>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having > it dusting, I >>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because > memories of > the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work > them >>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you > guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind > people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here > in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when > using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making > the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another > country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things > because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. > some day I hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus > hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which > more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating > our roots >>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. > waterbury%40 > gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmai > l.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne > .dempsey%40g > mail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc > lark%40sbcgl > obal.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin > djedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian > 551%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 > 0mchsi.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 > 12:16:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 28 16:25:42 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:25:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? References: <20100924182941.6156.98808@web1><723D87D4-3DEA-46DA-8994-37AA352BA66F@gmail.com><665757EEB32443E6B1B82F8A9D263826@DHCN2WC1> <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636@Rufus> Message-ID: <004101cb5f29$cc4123b0$6601a8c0@server> Extremely well stated Joe. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Darrel, > > I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical > when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) > > I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not > chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain > extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what > blind > people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we > can't > count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to > hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than > to > continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and > unemployable? > > I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in > so > much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent > need > to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I > personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from > high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If > people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a > waste > of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the > Braille Monitor... > > Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want > the > public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey > a > more positive image? > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very > interesting. I > feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job > well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the > Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things > like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite > ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my > education and > practice to become a great therapist is not learned through > instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my > job well and > strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that > blindness is > not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. > > However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this > woman. I thought > her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very > impressive. I also > recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people > have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about > the teaching > approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the > techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also > recognized the > importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing > this woman's > ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from > "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is > extraordnary. I do not > believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a > "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, > but I think > from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - > whether she has sight or not. > With all that being said, the author of the article should not > be expected > to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments > with one blind > person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this > individual and > her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not > the perfectly > written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an > inspirational > and educational article to read. > > Just My Opinion, > > Darrel Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > Hey all, > Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly > understand how strong and incredible this woman is. > Think about it. > Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's > circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting > appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and > you really have > to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this > article in my > opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted > assistants > and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your > hands out > and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her > searching > for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many > articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being > careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. > Mary > On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were > attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or > hear, and that > the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school > and home in > much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to > move around > (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's > pretty southward > to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. > While the article > doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition > between her real capability and what people really think > blindness is all > about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where > Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted > mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> Hello Andy, >>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go > South but in my >>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally > blind are > ever >>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has > done. Blindness > is >>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it > isn't. When I >>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its > proponent >>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No > sighted person is >>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for > those >>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely > exclusive, and > this >>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as > having the >>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted > people know that >>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could > never >>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>> Happy cooking, >>> Dennis >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Andi" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans > success but was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I > have also > been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of > you have. I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a > "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of > someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have > trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the > blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel > about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any > sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers > atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former > resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it > up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. > So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using > her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the > parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - > because she > is >>>> one. >> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an > exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She > adapted to it. >> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed > with retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young > child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to > treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. > She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after > spending her early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for > the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, > English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, > Pam McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they > remain >>>> very close. >> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, > describing situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer > Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her > late father. >> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the > quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have > different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the > subject came up at >>>> school. >> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced > people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid > to talk or > do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of > possibilities for >>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take > life-skills classes > for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in > Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted > as students > but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the > school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The > curriculum is >>>> tough. >> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" > when it came > to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might > impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers > could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but > do so in a > way >>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced > environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different > than cooking >>>> at home. >> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more > fire," he said. >> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive > and desire" > to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened > focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I > can describe > it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on > your organs. She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think > that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She > labeled things in >>>> Braille. >> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses > her sense of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine > whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to > debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their > eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned > where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like > Jell-O," she said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was > published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS > Evening News" > to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and > maybe give her >>>> some advice. >> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a > chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one > expected that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., > said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two > attributes which he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week > later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the > kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, > sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home > in Moline. >> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, > hunting for just > the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>> Still dreaming >> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her > hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted > person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches > the food that >>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or > recorded on CD, > but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special > twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her > lasagna, just to > give >>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, > offering a > mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would > call the place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the > energy to fight," >>>> she added. >> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. > However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my > friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually > does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no > peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I > would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, > etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and > things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of > us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely > to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, > looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly > because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let > that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, > and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane > at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel > free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I > don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter > how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding > (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted > guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three > years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use > it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around > without it! >> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been > using it ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going > sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom > I'm going > with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus > doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this > technique is > fine >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same > time being able > to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might > not have the >>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route > following, thus > make >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending > in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in > using it? though > I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a > bad experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years > ago in that >>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having > it dusting, I >>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because > memories of > the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work > them >>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you > guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind > people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here > in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when > using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making > the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another > country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things > because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. > some day I hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus > hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which > more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating > our roots >>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. > waterbury%40 > gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmai > l.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne > .dempsey%40g > mail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc > lark%40sbcgl > obal.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin > djedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian > 551%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 > 0mchsi.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 > 12:16:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 17:30:00 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:30:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003001cb5f32$c7ea3690$57bea3b0$@com> You can see, in the virtual viewer, a list of all comments in a document by pressing windows key plus ;. Then choose "comments" from the list of choices. To insert a comment, press alt plus I, and then M. These commands should work in Office '03 and '07. Sean From 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu Tue Sep 28 17:35:03 2010 From: 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu (Renee Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:35:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Message-ID: On 9/28/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ms word comments feature (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) > 2. Re: Accessible Games (Nicole B. Torcolini) > 3. Re: Accessible Games (RJ Sandefur) > 4. Re: Accessible Games (Nicole B. Torcolini) > 5. Re: Accessible Games (Julie McGinnity) > 6. Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI > Youth (Riccobono, Mark) > 7. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Joe Orozco) > 8. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Mark J. Cadigan) > 9. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Marc Workman) > 10. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Dennis Clark) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:15:54 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hi all, > > I use Windows xp and jaws 11. My MS word still has menus since I haven't > updated. How do I read the comments in word documents? > > How do I insert comments in an existing document? > > Thanks! > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:46:19 -0700 > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: <5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF at stanford.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel S." > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >> Yahtzee (among others. >> >> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >> walls all the time? >> >> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >> >> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>> good. >>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>>> sold >>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>> but >>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think >>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>> enjoyment >>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>> luck >>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>> uses >>>> for your laboratories. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> Hi NABS list, >>>> >>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>> >>>> >>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>> good model. >>>> >>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>> >>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>> Youth Slam! >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chrys >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:23:56 -0400 > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel S." >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>> Yahtzee (among others. >>> >>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>> walls all the time? >>> >>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>> >>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>> good. >>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>> >>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>>>> sold >>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>> but >>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>> think >>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>> enjoyment >>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>> luck >>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>> uses >>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>> sleeves, >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>> >>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>> good model. >>>>> >>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>> >>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chrys >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:27:59 -0700 > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is > available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at > www.gmagames.com. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>> >>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>> walls all the time? >>>> >>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>> >>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>> good. >>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>> completely >>>>>> sold >>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>> but >>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>> think >>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>> luck >>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>>> uses >>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>>> good model. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>> >>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chrys >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:39:02 -0500 > From: Julie McGinnity > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Have any of you ever played termite torpedo? I had it on my computer > when I was little. I could never figure it out, but I never really > tried too hard. My sighted friends used to get confused because they > had to use the arrow keys and things to kill the termites. Lol! > > On 9/27/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is >> available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at >> www.gmagames.com. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>>> >>>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>>> walls all the time? >>>>> >>>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>>> good. >>>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>>> completely >>>>>>> sold >>>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>>> luck >>>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some >>>>>>> good >>>>>>> uses >>>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> good model. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that >>>>>>> convey >>>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Chrys >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:46:17 -0500 > From: "Riccobono, Mark" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for > B/VI Youth > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > > > Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI Youth > > Do you know an exceptional student who would > benefit from a unique travel and leadership > program? Nominate that student for the Global > Explorers Leading the Way program at > http://www.globalexplorers.org/programs/forms/nominate/grandcanyon/. > Developed in partnership with world-renowned > blind athlete Erik Weihenmayer, Leading the Way > brings together blind and sighted youth ages > 14-21 for a once-in-a-lifetime adventure > combining leadership, science, culture, and > service. Specifically, the program aims to achieve the following: > > ? Provide unparalleled leadership skills by > learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. > > > > ? Develop confidence, independence, > self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. > > > > ? Promote peer relationships am > > --------- ong youth of different backgrounds and abilities. > > > > ? Equip participants with the tools they > need to step up and make a difference in the world. > > > > ? Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. > > > > ? Spread messages of hope by breaking down > barriers between those with and without disabilities. > > > Our summer 2011 Leading the Way destination is > one of the 7 Natural Wonders of the World ? the > majestic Grand Canyon! To learn more or to > apply, please visit > www.globalexplorers.org > and click "Leading the Way." The application > deadline is Monday, November 15. For more > information, please contact Laura at > laura at globalexplorers.org or 877.627.1425. > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Riccobono, Mark > <MRiccobono at nfb.org> wrote: > Dear Laura, > > Please send an e-mail announcement we can send around. > > Mark > > > ---------- > From: Laura Portalupi [mailto:laura at globalexplorers.org] > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:24 PM > To: Riccobono, Mark > Subject: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program > > Dear Mark: > My colleague Shannon has been in contact with you > the past two years about the Global Explorers > Leading the Way program. I'd like to introduce > myself as the coordinator of Leading the Way for 2010-2011. > I am so impressed with the work of the Jernigan > Institute and feel our program closely aligns > with the Institute's mission. Developed in > partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer > Erik Weihenmayer, the Global Explorers Leading > the Way program joins blind, visually impaired, > and sighted individuals between the ages of 14 > and 21 for the adventure of a lifetime. Leading > the Way integrates science, service, leadership, > and culture in a 3-phase program that includes > pre-travel preparatory curriculum, a > life-changing travel experience, and a follow-up > service leadership project. Specifically, the > program aims to achieve the following: > > > ? Provide unparalleled leadership skills by > learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. > > > > ? Develop confidence, independence, > self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. > > > > ? Promote peer relationships among youth of > different backgrounds and abilities. > > > > ? Equip participants with the tools they > need to step up and make a difference in the world. > > > > ? Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. > > > > ? Spread messages of hope by breaking down > barriers between those with and without disabilities. > Our summer 2011 destination is the majestic Grand > Canyon. The application deadline is Monday, November 15. > Would you be willing to share information about > Leading the Way among your network? If so, I can > provide you with an announcement for distribution > via e-mail. I can also send you informational > fliers as an attachment or via snail > mail. Braille and large print materials are available upon request. > Thank you so much for your time and > assistance! I look forward to hearing from you. > Kind regards, > Laura Portalupi > Leading the Way Fellow > Global Explorers > 420 S. Howes St. Suite B300 > Fort Collins, CO 80521 > (office) 877.627.1425 > (fax) 970.672.1073 > > www.globalexplorers.org > "This is a life-changing trip ... you will walk > away as a different person." -Leading the Way Rim to River Participant, 2010 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:38:18 -0400 > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636 at Rufus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Darrel, > > I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical > when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) > > I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not > chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain > extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what blind > people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we can't > count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to > hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than to > continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and > unemployable? > > I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in so > much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent need > to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I > personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from > high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If > people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a waste > of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the > Braille Monitor... > > Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want the > public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey a > more positive image? > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very > interesting. I > feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job > well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the > Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things > like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite > ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my > education and > practice to become a great therapist is not learned through > instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my > job well and > strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that > blindness is > not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. > > However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this > woman. I thought > her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very > impressive. I also > recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people > have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about > the teaching > approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the > techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also > recognized the > importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing > this woman's > ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from > "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is > extraordnary. I do not > believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a > "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, > but I think > from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - > whether she has sight or not. > With all that being said, the author of the article should not > be expected > to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments > with one blind > person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this > individual and > her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not > the perfectly > written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an > inspirational > and educational article to read. > > Just My Opinion, > > Darrel Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > Hey all, > Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly > understand how strong and incredible this woman is. > Think about it. > Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's > circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting > appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and > you really have > to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this > article in my > opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted > assistants > and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your > hands out > and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her > searching > for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many > articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being > careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. > Mary > On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were > attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or > hear, and that > the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school > and home in > much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to > move around > (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's > pretty southward > to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. > While the article > doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition > between her real capability and what people really think > blindness is all > about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where > Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted > mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> Hello Andy, >>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go > South but in my >>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally > blind are > ever >>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has > done. Blindness > is >>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it > isn't. When I >>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its > proponent >>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No > sighted person is >>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for > those >>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely > exclusive, and > this >>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as > having the >>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted > people know that >>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could > never >>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>> Happy cooking, >>> Dennis >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Andi" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans > success but was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I > have also > been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of > you have. I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a > "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of > someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have > trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the > blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel > about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any > sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers > atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former > resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it > up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. > So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using > her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the > parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - > because she > is >>>> one. >> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an > exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She > adapted to it. >> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed > with retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young > child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to > treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. > She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after > spending her early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for > the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, > English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, > Pam McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they > remain >>>> very close. >> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, > describing situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer > Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her > late father. >> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the > quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have > different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the > subject came up at >>>> school. >> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced > people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid > to talk or > do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of > possibilities for >>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take > life-skills classes > for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in > Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted > as students > but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the > school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The > curriculum is >>>> tough. >> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" > when it came > to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might > impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers > could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but > do so in a > way >>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced > environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different > than cooking >>>> at home. >> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more > fire," he said. >> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive > and desire" > to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened > focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I > can describe > it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on > your organs. She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think > that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She > labeled things in >>>> Braille. >> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses > her sense of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine > whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to > debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their > eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned > where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like > Jell-O," she said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was > published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS > Evening News" > to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and > maybe give her >>>> some advice. >> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a > chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one > expected that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., > said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two > attributes which he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week > later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the > kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, > sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home > in Moline. >> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, > hunting for just > the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>> Still dreaming >> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her > hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted > person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches > the food that >>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or > recorded on CD, > but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special > twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her > lasagna, just to > give >>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, > offering a > mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would > call the place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the > energy to fight," >>>> she added. >> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. > However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my > friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually > does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no > peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I > would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, > etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and > things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of > us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely > to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, > looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly > because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let > that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, > and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane > at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel > free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I > don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter > how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding > (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted > guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three > years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use > it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around > without it! >> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been > using it ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going > sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom > I'm going > with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus > doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this > technique is > fine >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same > time being able > to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might > not have the >>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route > following, thus > make >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending > in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in > using it? though > I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a > bad experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years > ago in that >>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having > it dusting, I >>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because > memories of > the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work > them >>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you > guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind > people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here > in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when > using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making > the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another > country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things > because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. > some day I hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus > hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which > more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating > our roots >>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. > waterbury%40 > gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmai > l.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne > .dempsey%40g > mail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc > lark%40sbcgl > obal.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin > djedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian > 551%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 > 0mchsi.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 > 12:16:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:44:11 -0400 > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > The solution is, we need blind reporters. This way, we can have stories > about the blind reported in a manner that portrays the story the way we > want. Does any one know of a blind reporter that works for a large news > outlet? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:05:15 -0600 > From: "Marc Workman" > To: , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: <7855B9B9D46646BFB0DEEEDD4E53D90B at MarcPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Joe asked, > > isn't it better for the public to hear stories of blind people actively > working in the general public than to continue to rely on perceptions that > blind people are still helpless and unemployable? > > Marc says, > > I haven't gone back to reread the posts on this, but I think it's worth > noting that, if I recall correctly, no one said the story shouldn't have > been written. It's possible to be critical of a story like this, and yet to > believe that, overall, it's good that the story was written and printed. > > I don't think there's as much disagreement as it might seem. One can be > critical and yet believe the story is good, and another can praise the story > and yet believe it's not perfect. These are the positions I see being > chalked out. > > There is a benefit to being critical of these sorts of stories; for as we go > on to have stories written about us, or as we write stories ourselves, we > will be in a better position to make sure that certain mistakes are not made > again, that the stories are even better. If the criticism is motivated by > envy, then we might have a problem, but I don't think that's what's driving > any of the critical voices on this list. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:25:42 -0700 > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: <004101cb5f29$cc4123b0$6601a8c0 at server> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Extremely well stated Joe. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 33 > ************************************** > From 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu Tue Sep 28 17:45:21 2010 From: 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu (Renee Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:45:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games Message-ID: On 9/28/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ms word comments feature (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) > 2. Re: Accessible Games (Nicole B. Torcolini) > 3. Re: Accessible Games (RJ Sandefur) > 4. Re: Accessible Games (Nicole B. Torcolini) > 5. Re: Accessible Games (Julie McGinnity) > 6. Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI > Youth (Riccobono, Mark) > 7. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Joe Orozco) > 8. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Mark J. Cadigan) > 9. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Marc Workman) > 10. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Dennis Clark) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:15:54 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hi all, > > I use Windows xp and jaws 11. My MS word still has menus since I haven't > updated. How do I read the comments in word documents? > > How do I insert comments in an existing document? > > Thanks! > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:46:19 -0700 > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: <5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF at stanford.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel S." > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >> Yahtzee (among others. >> >> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >> walls all the time? >> >> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >> >> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>> good. >>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>>> sold >>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>> but >>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think >>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>> enjoyment >>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>> luck >>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>> uses >>>> for your laboratories. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> Hi NABS list, >>>> >>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>> >>>> >>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>> good model. >>>> >>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>> >>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>> Youth Slam! >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chrys >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> ~Jewel >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:23:56 -0400 > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel S." >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>> Yahtzee (among others. >>> >>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>> walls all the time? >>> >>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>> >>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>> good. >>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>> >>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>>>> sold >>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>> but >>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>> think >>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>> enjoyment >>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>> luck >>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>> uses >>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>> sleeves, >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>> >>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>> good model. >>>>> >>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>> >>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chrys >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:27:59 -0700 > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is > available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at > www.gmagames.com. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > > >> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>> >>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>> walls all the time? >>>> >>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>> >>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>> good. >>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>> completely >>>>>> sold >>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>> but >>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>> think >>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>> luck >>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>>> uses >>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>>> good model. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>> >>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chrys >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:39:02 -0500 > From: Julie McGinnity > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Have any of you ever played termite torpedo? I had it on my computer > when I was little. I could never figure it out, but I never really > tried too hard. My sighted friends used to get confused because they > had to use the arrow keys and things to kill the termites. Lol! > > On 9/27/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >> Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is >> available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at >> www.gmagames.com. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>>> >>>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>>> walls all the time? >>>>> >>>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>>> good. >>>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>>> completely >>>>>>> sold >>>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>>> luck >>>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some >>>>>>> good >>>>>>> uses >>>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> good model. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that >>>>>>> convey >>>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Chrys >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:46:17 -0500 > From: "Riccobono, Mark" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for > B/VI Youth > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > > > Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI Youth > > Do you know an exceptional student who would > benefit from a unique travel and leadership > program? Nominate that student for the Global > Explorers Leading the Way program at > http://www.globalexplorers.org/programs/forms/nominate/grandcanyon/. > Developed in partnership with world-renowned > blind athlete Erik Weihenmayer, Leading the Way > brings together blind and sighted youth ages > 14-21 for a once-in-a-lifetime adventure > combining leadership, science, culture, and > service. Specifically, the program aims to achieve the following: > > ? Provide unparalleled leadership skills by > learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. > > > > ? Develop confidence, independence, > self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. > > > > ? Promote peer relationships am > > --------- ong youth of different backgrounds and abilities. > > > > ? Equip participants with the tools they > need to step up and make a difference in the world. > > > > ? Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. > > > > ? Spread messages of hope by breaking down > barriers between those with and without disabilities. > > > Our summer 2011 Leading the Way destination is > one of the 7 Natural Wonders of the World ? the > majestic Grand Canyon! To learn more or to > apply, please visit > www.globalexplorers.org > and click "Leading the Way." The application > deadline is Monday, November 15. For more > information, please contact Laura at > laura at globalexplorers.org or 877.627.1425. > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Riccobono, Mark > <MRiccobono at nfb.org> wrote: > Dear Laura, > > Please send an e-mail announcement we can send around. > > Mark > > > ---------- > From: Laura Portalupi [mailto:laura at globalexplorers.org] > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:24 PM > To: Riccobono, Mark > Subject: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program > > Dear Mark: > My colleague Shannon has been in contact with you > the past two years about the Global Explorers > Leading the Way program. I'd like to introduce > myself as the coordinator of Leading the Way for 2010-2011. > I am so impressed with the work of the Jernigan > Institute and feel our program closely aligns > with the Institute's mission. Developed in > partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer > Erik Weihenmayer, the Global Explorers Leading > the Way program joins blind, visually impaired, > and sighted individuals between the ages of 14 > and 21 for the adventure of a lifetime. Leading > the Way integrates science, service, leadership, > and culture in a 3-phase program that includes > pre-travel preparatory curriculum, a > life-changing travel experience, and a follow-up > service leadership project. Specifically, the > program aims to achieve the following: > > > ? Provide unparalleled leadership skills by > learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. > > > > ? Develop confidence, independence, > self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. > > > > ? Promote peer relationships among youth of > different backgrounds and abilities. > > > > ? Equip participants with the tools they > need to step up and make a difference in the world. > > > > ? Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. > > > > ? Spread messages of hope by breaking down > barriers between those with and without disabilities. > Our summer 2011 destination is the majestic Grand > Canyon. The application deadline is Monday, November 15. > Would you be willing to share information about > Leading the Way among your network? If so, I can > provide you with an announcement for distribution > via e-mail. I can also send you informational > fliers as an attachment or via snail > mail. Braille and large print materials are available upon request. > Thank you so much for your time and > assistance! I look forward to hearing from you. > Kind regards, > Laura Portalupi > Leading the Way Fellow > Global Explorers > 420 S. Howes St. Suite B300 > Fort Collins, CO 80521 > (office) 877.627.1425 > (fax) 970.672.1073 > > www.globalexplorers.org > "This is a life-changing trip ... you will walk > away as a different person." -Leading the Way Rim to River Participant, 2010 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:38:18 -0400 > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636 at Rufus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Darrel, > > I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical > when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) > > I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not > chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain > extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what blind > people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we can't > count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to > hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than to > continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and > unemployable? > > I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in so > much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent need > to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I > personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from > high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If > people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a waste > of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the > Braille Monitor... > > Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want the > public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey a > more positive image? > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very > interesting. I > feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job > well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the > Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things > like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite > ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my > education and > practice to become a great therapist is not learned through > instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my > job well and > strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that > blindness is > not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. > > However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this > woman. I thought > her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very > impressive. I also > recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people > have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about > the teaching > approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the > techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also > recognized the > importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing > this woman's > ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from > "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is > extraordnary. I do not > believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a > "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, > but I think > from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - > whether she has sight or not. > With all that being said, the author of the article should not > be expected > to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments > with one blind > person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this > individual and > her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not > the perfectly > written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an > inspirational > and educational article to read. > > Just My Opinion, > > Darrel Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Mary Fernandez > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > Hey all, > Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly > understand how strong and incredible this woman is. > Think about it. > Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's > circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting > appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and > you really have > to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this > article in my > opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted > assistants > and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your > hands out > and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her > searching > for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many > articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being > careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. > Mary > On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were > attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or > hear, and that > the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school > and home in > much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to > move around > (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's > pretty southward > to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. > While the article > doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition > between her real capability and what people really think > blindness is all > about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where > Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted > mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> Hello Andy, >>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go > South but in my >>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally > blind are > ever >>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has > done. Blindness > is >>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it > isn't. When I >>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its > proponent >>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No > sighted person is >>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for > those >>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely > exclusive, and > this >>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as > having the >>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted > people know that >>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could > never >>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>> Happy cooking, >>> Dennis >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Andi" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans > success but was >>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I > have also > been >>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of > you have. I >>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a > "disability" >>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of > someone >>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have > trouble doing. >>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the > blind >>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel > about >>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any > sugjestions on how to >>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >> >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>> the quad-city times >> >>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >> >>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >> >>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >> >>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers > atop >>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>> grater. >> >>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >> >>>> She never does, Martinez says. >> >>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >> >>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former > resident of Moline >>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >> >>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it > up, explaining >>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >> >>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. > So, she feels >>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using > her sense of >>>> touch to make >>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >> >>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the > parsley with >>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - > because she > is >>>> one. >> >>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an > exclusive >>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >> >>>> She also happens to be blind. >> >>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >> >>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She > adapted to it. >> >>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >> >>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >> >>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed > with retinal >>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young > child. That is >>>> what caused >>>> her blindness. >> >>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to > treat >>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >> >>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >> >>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. > She uses her >>>> active imagination instead. >> >>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after > spending her early >>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for > the blind or >>>> special >>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>> three-hour car ride away. >> >>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, > English >>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>> education at the >>>> age of 10. >> >>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, > Pam McDermott. >>>> The two spent >>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they > remain >>>> very close. >> >>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, > describing situations >>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer > Helen Keller and >>>> other people >>>> who overcame life's challenges. >> >>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her > late father. >> >>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the > quiet, >>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have > different >>>> skin >>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the > subject came up at >>>> school. >> >>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced > people who told >>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >> >>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid > to talk or > do >>>> anything. But I don't give up." >> >>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of > possibilities for >>>> her, Martinez said. >> >>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take > life-skills classes > for >>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >> >>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >> >>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >> >>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >> >>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>> challenge. >> >>>> "I don't give up," she said. >> >>>> Culinary school brings challenges >> >>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in > Chicago, an >>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted > as students > but >>>> not everyone >>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the > school's vice >>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The > curriculum is >>>> tough. >> >>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" > when it came > to >>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>> school had >>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >> >>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might > impact >>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers > could >>>> present >>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but > do so in a > way >>>> that would accommodate her. >> >>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced > environment of >>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different > than cooking >>>> at home. >> >>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more > fire," he said. >> >>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive > and desire" > to >>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened > focus >>>> via >>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >> >>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I > can describe > it >>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on > your organs. She >>>> just >>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >> >>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think > that's >>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >> >>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She > labeled things in >>>> Braille. >> >>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses > her sense of >>>> smell to figure >>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine > whether meat >>>> and other dishes are done. >> >>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to > debone >>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>> feeding it >>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their > eyes and feel >>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned > where >>>> and what >>>> to cut, Martinez said. >> >>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like > Jell-O," she said. >>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >> >>>> An article about the school's first blind student was > published in the >>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS > Evening News" > to >>>> feature >>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >> >>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and > maybe give her >>>> some advice. >> >>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a > chef at his >>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one > expected that, >>>> least of >>>> all Martinez. >> >>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >> >>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., > said >>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >> >>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two > attributes which he >>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >> >>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week > later, she began >>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the > kitchen >>>> and the >>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >> >>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, > sniffing >>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home > in Moline. >> >>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, > hunting for just > the >>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >> >>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >> >>>> Still dreaming >> >>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>> Moline. She is lost >>>> because her family recently remodeled. >> >>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >> >>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her > hands, which she >>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted > person, she >>>> says, for food >>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches > the food that >>>> she cooks a lot. >> >>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or > recorded on CD, > but >>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special > twist to an >>>> old favorite. >>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her > lasagna, just to > give >>>> it some kick, she said. >> >>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, > offering a > mix >>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would > call the place >>>> La Diosa, >>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >> >>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >> >>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the > energy to fight," >>>> she added. >> >>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. > However, I do >>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my > friend who >>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually > does this with >>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no > peripheral >>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I > would miss >>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, > etcetra). I use my >>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and > things in front >>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of > us, as he is >>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >> >>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely > to learn the >>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, > looking back, >>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly > because of my poor >>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let > that work go, >>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, > and sounds. >>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >> >>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane > at the same >>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel > free to shoot >>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I > don't like to >>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter > how good a >>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding > (he better >>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted > guides, too!), so >>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >> >>>>> ~Jewel >> >>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three > years of age, I >>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >> >>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use > it until the >>>>>> time I >>>>>> was about five. >> >>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll >>>>>> take >>>>>> it from you." >> >>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around > without it! >> >>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been > using it ever >>>>>> since. >>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going > sighted >>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom > I'm going > with >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus > doesn't know to >>>>>>> alert >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this > technique is > fine >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same > time being able > to >>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might > not have the >>>>>>> mind >> >>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route > following, thus > make >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending > in the same >>>>>>> email: >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in > using it? though > I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a > bad experience >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years > ago in that >>>>>>> when I >> >>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having > it dusting, I >>>>>>> held >> >>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because > memories of > the >>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work > them >>>>>>> out >> >>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you > guys? It's a >>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind > people >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here > in Mexico the >>>>>>> blind >> >>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when > using the cane >>>>>>> gives >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making > the sighted >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another > country when I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things > because of how >>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. > some day I hope >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus > hoping >>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which > more than one >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating > our roots >>>>>>> brought >> >>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>> Gerardo >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. > waterbury%40 > gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt > ykat2%40gmai > l.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne > .dempsey%40g > mail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc > lark%40sbcgl > obal.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin > djedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian > 551%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 > 0mchsi.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 > 12:16:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:44:11 -0400 > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > The solution is, we need blind reporters. This way, we can have stories > about the blind reported in a manner that portrays the story the way we > want. Does any one know of a blind reporter that works for a large news > outlet? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:05:15 -0600 > From: "Marc Workman" > To: , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: <7855B9B9D46646BFB0DEEEDD4E53D90B at MarcPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Joe asked, > > isn't it better for the public to hear stories of blind people actively > working in the general public than to continue to rely on perceptions that > blind people are still helpless and unemployable? > > Marc says, > > I haven't gone back to reread the posts on this, but I think it's worth > noting that, if I recall correctly, no one said the story shouldn't have > been written. It's possible to be critical of a story like this, and yet to > believe that, overall, it's good that the story was written and printed. > > I don't think there's as much disagreement as it might seem. One can be > critical and yet believe the story is good, and another can praise the story > and yet believe it's not perfect. These are the positions I see being > chalked out. > > There is a benefit to being critical of these sorts of stories; for as we go > on to have stories written about us, or as we write stories ourselves, we > will be in a better position to make sure that certain mistakes are not made > again, that the stories are even better. If the criticism is motivated by > envy, then we might have a problem, but I don't think that's what's driving > any of the critical voices on this list. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:25:42 -0700 > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > Message-ID: <004101cb5f29$cc4123b0$6601a8c0 at server> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Extremely well stated Joe. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? > > >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 33 > ************************************** > Let me introduce my self. My name is Renee Jones. Have you tried "Black Jack?" It can help you prepare for Monte Carlo Night! From 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu Tue Sep 28 18:19:35 2010 From: 1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu (Renee Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:19:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The DJD Invasion will change for the better, starting to night Message-ID: On 9/27/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Accessible Games (Ignasi Cambra) > 2. The Djd Invasion Listening Experience Is About To Change For > The Better Starting Tonight! (David Dunphy) > 3. Re: Accessible Games (Jewel S.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:01:02 -0400 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: <96B20782-8851-4D3D-8FF8-C922BCCFAF64 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty good. > You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. > On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >> sold >> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, but >> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think >> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of enjoyment >> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of luck >> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >> uses >> for your laboratories. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> Hi NABS list, >> >> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >> >> >> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >> good model. >> >> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >> >> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >> Youth Slam! >> >> Thanks, >> Chrys >> >> >> >> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:49:23 -0400 > From: "David Dunphy" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Listening Experience Is About To > Change For The Better Starting Tonight! > Message-ID: <89A34F5BA6A1415A92464F98E9CC7565 at radio360usa> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello All! > Nobody likes Mondays after a fun weekend, but you'll like this Monday, as > tonight, I give you another thrill ride that is The Djd Invasion. > Join us, that is, me and my co hosting team, starting at 8 PM eastern on > ShockWaveRadio for what should be a great show, especially if you like > country, 70's and 80's pop, some oldies sprinkled in, and just general good > old musical variety! > And I think we'll have variety this evening, for tonight, I can finally > unleash on the world what should make this and future Djd Invasion shows > truly interactive! > Normally, I give you my contact details such as the email, aim and msn info > of > liveradio at shockwaveradio.net > for making requests, and you can still use said details to get in touch. > But why gamble that you'll make a request I don't have? > Why be disappointed when you ask for a song, only to discover "I'm sorry, I > don't have the tune you want." > Don't you just hate calling in/writing in to your favorite radio show, just > to discover that your song can't be played cause the dj can't find it? > >From now on during a Djd Invasion show, you can make requests, and know > with > confidence that the songs you request will be played, for if you can find it > when searching for the tune you want, you'll know I have it! > Hear how this online jukebox of sorts will work, and give it a spin during > this evening's program! > And look at it this way, you don't need to insert coins into a slot for this > dj to play that funky music that you want to hear! > As stated above, you can get in touch in the usual ways, and/or skype in at > shockwaveradio1 > or call in at > 516-209-3796 > during the program when the lines are open. > Between the variety, the commentary, this exciting new way to handle song > requests, I bet tonight's show will be thrilling and fun! > So why not tune in? Save this email, and at 8 PM eastern, or at any time > between 8 and midnight, head on over to > http://is.gd/eaRnd > and join in the fun! You'll be glad you did!Bring your energy, love for > music, and your requests! > >From Djd, host of The Djd Invasion on ShockWaveRadio > http://www.shockwaveradio.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:54:46 -0400 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest > in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's > castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to > Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). > My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA > Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, > also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out > there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and > Yahtzee (among others. > > I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just > confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the > Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out > sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think > it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of > practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into > walls all the time? > > I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* > > On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >> good. >> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>> sold >>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, but >>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I think >>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of enjoyment >>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>> luck >>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>> uses >>> for your laboratories. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> Hi NABS list, >>> >>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>> >>> >>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>> good model. >>> >>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>> >>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>> Youth Slam! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Chrys >>> >>> >>> >>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 32 > ************************************** > What has been going on with the sho lately Mr. Dunphy? From philso1003 at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 20:05:49 2010 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:05:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LunarPlus help Message-ID: hi friend, is anyone here familiar with or has used the screen reader/magnifyer software LunarPlus? your help and advice are much appreciated. thanks. phil From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 28 20:44:14 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Requesting information: Message-ID: <486939.95784.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> List moderator, I would like to cross-post the following: Thank you I have a friend who is interested in attending the University of Maryland. She is also looking at permanently relocating to Maryland. Can anyone on the list email her with suggestions of accessible/blind friendly towns. Yvetta’s email is: yvtsc at aol.com Please write “Maryland” in the subject. In the event that you need an immediate response from me, please email me at my gmail address. The address is: william.odonnell1 at gmail.com Thank you. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 20:49:09 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:49:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Requesting information: In-Reply-To: <486939.95784.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <486939.95784.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4965651363274D97B8BCF2D27B8074B8@Rufus> That depends. Which campus of the university is your friend looking to attend? Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William ODonnell Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:44 PM To: promotion-technology at nfbnet.org; nagdu at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Requesting information: List moderator, I would like to cross-post the following: Thank you I have a friend who is interested in attending the University of Maryland. She is also looking at permanently relocating to Maryland. Can anyone on the list email her with suggestions of accessible/blind friendly towns. Yvetta's email is: yvtsc at aol.com Please write "Maryland" in the subject. In the event that you need an immediate response from me, please email me at my gmail address. The address is: william.odonnell1 at gmail.com Thank you. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From philso1003 at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 21:01:46 2010 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LunarPlus help Message-ID: hi friends, is anyone here familiar with or has used the screen reader/magnifyer software LunarPlus? your help and advice are much appreciated. thanks. phil p.s. sorry if this is a re-post. received an error message with last post. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:16:08 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:16:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yea, I meant Shades of Doom and Monkey Madness. I have my days when I can't remember even simple details like that. Chalk it up to my undiagnosed disorder...memory fog is one reason they think it is likely fibromyalgia. My boyfriend, who loved Doom, tried playing Shades of Doom, and disliked it, but he is a very visual player and even with his degenerationg eye condition (due to non-age related macular degeneration), he strains his eyes to play his video games (and then complains about his headaches...*eyeroll* Men!). I never did well with shoot-'em-up bang-bang games. There is one that is kinda like that old arcade game with the spaceships that you have to shoot down. I kinda liked it, and got decent at it, but I can't remember its name or where to get it. When I'm waiting for a download or a page to load, though, I love to switch over to Finger Panic for a quick game. My high score is 1450! It helps my finger dexterity and speed, I think. On 9/28/10, Renee Jones <1056996 at gmatc.matc.edu> wrote: > On 9/28/10, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: >> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. ms word comments feature (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) >> 2. Re: Accessible Games (Nicole B. Torcolini) >> 3. Re: Accessible Games (RJ Sandefur) >> 4. Re: Accessible Games (Nicole B. Torcolini) >> 5. Re: Accessible Games (Julie McGinnity) >> 6. Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI >> Youth (Riccobono, Mark) >> 7. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Joe Orozco) >> 8. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Mark J. Cadigan) >> 9. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Marc Workman) >> 10. Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? (Dennis Clark) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:15:54 -0400 >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Hi all, >> >> I use Windows xp and jaws 11. My MS word still has menus since I haven't >> updated. How do I read the comments in word documents? >> >> How do I insert comments in an existing document? >> >> Thanks! >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:46:19 -0700 >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> Message-ID: <5F9A669E0DB749D58E65CA68034CDFAF at stanford.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel S." >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>> Yahtzee (among others. >>> >>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>> walls all the time? >>> >>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>> >>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>> good. >>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>> >>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't completely >>>>> sold >>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>> but >>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>> think >>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>> enjoyment >>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>> luck >>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>> uses >>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>> sleeves, >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>> >>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>> >>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>> good model. >>>>> >>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>> >>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chrys >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~Jewel >>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:23:56 -0400 >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=response >> >> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel S." >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>> >>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>> walls all the time? >>>> >>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>> >>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>> good. >>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>> completely >>>>>> sold >>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>> but >>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>> think >>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>> luck >>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some good >>>>>> uses >>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be a >>>>>> good model. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that convey >>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am just >>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>> >>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chrys >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~Jewel >>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:27:59 -0700 >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=response >> >> Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is >> available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at >> www.gmagames.com. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> >> >>> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>>> >>>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>>> walls all the time? >>>>> >>>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually pretty >>>>>> good. >>>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>>> completely >>>>>>> sold >>>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of headphones, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best of >>>>>>> luck >>>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some >>>>>>> good >>>>>>> uses >>>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If so, >>>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you play! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> good model. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that >>>>>>> convey >>>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to the >>>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Chrys >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:39:02 -0500 >> From: Julie McGinnity >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Have any of you ever played termite torpedo? I had it on my computer >> when I was little. I could never figure it out, but I never really >> tried too hard. My sighted friends used to get confused because they >> had to use the arrow keys and things to kill the termites. Lol! >> >> On 9/27/10, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: >>> Shades of Doom is an accessible version of Doom, hence the pun. It is >>> available as both a demo and as a for sale full version from GMA Games at >>> www.gmagames.com. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:23 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>> >>> >>>> What is shades of doom, and where do you get it? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>> >>>> >>>>> Did you mean Monkey Business and Shades of Doom? >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have played a number of audio games, since I have a bit of interest >>>>>> in it. Everything from Palace Punch-up (shooting at each other's >>>>>> castles and trying to repair your own before it is destroyed) to >>>>>> Dynoman (which I didn't really get into. It seemed quite complicated). >>>>>> My favourites are a simple game called Finger Panic (free from GMA >>>>>> Games, I blieve) and Sara and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, >>>>>> also from GMA Games I think. I also like the audio Simo Says games out >>>>>> there, and Kitchens Inc's DOS audio games, including Monopoly and >>>>>> Yahtzee (among others. >>>>>> >>>>>> I tend to prefer the non-3D audio games because the 3D ones just >>>>>> confuse me, like Monkey Madness and Shadows of Doom. Sara and the >>>>>> Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry was the only one I could figur out >>>>>> sorta, and I kept getting lost and confused in that one, too. I think >>>>>> it'd just take a lot of practice, but should a game require a lot of >>>>>> practice just so you don't get lost in the game or don't run into >>>>>> walls all the time? >>>>>> >>>>>> I miss Super Mario Brothers and Yoshi *pout* >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/26/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>>> I used to play an audio game called TopSpeed 2. It was actually >>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>> good. >>>>>>> You can find it at www.playinginthedark.net. >>>>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I played one of these audio games on the computer and wasn't >>>>>>>> completely >>>>>>>> sold >>>>>>>> on it. The soundtrack was fantastic with a great pair of >>>>>>>> headphones, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> the game itself wasn't all that flexible. I could be wrong, but I >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> it's name was Tomb or Entombed. Note, however, that my lack of >>>>>>>> enjoyment >>>>>>>> may have also been owed to my lack of experience playing it. Best >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> luck >>>>>>>> in helping to expand that field while simultaneously finding some >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> uses >>>>>>>> for your laboratories. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chrys Buckley >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Games >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi NABS list, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you play or use any accessible, sound-based computer games? If >>>>>>>> so, >>>>>>>> please tell me about them, as it may help with an accessibility >>>>>>>> project for blind college students. Feel free to do this off-list if >>>>>>>> you prefer at cbuckley at pdx.edu. Tell me all about any games you >>>>>>>> play! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My name is Chrys and I'm a blind biology student working with a >>>>>>>> software company that is trying to create more accessible virtual >>>>>>>> science labs. One of the challenges is that the virtual labs have a >>>>>>>> big visual component, and they aren't fixed like a video that would >>>>>>>> play the same way every time. In these labs, different things happen >>>>>>>> every time, so we are thinking that computer games, which also are >>>>>>>> unpredictable and aren't the same every time you play them, might be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> good model. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, if you play any computer games that are accessible and that >>>>>>>> convey >>>>>>>> the information in non-visual ways, it would be really helpful to >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> development of this project if you could tell me about them. I am >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> not a computer game person myself, so I need your help if you are! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This project is really exciting and will be unveiled at next year's >>>>>>>> Youth Slam! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Chrys >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ~Jewel >>>>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>>>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:46:17 -0500 >> From: "Riccobono, Mark" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for >> B/VI Youth >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed >> >> >> >> Announcing a Unique Travel & Leadership Program for B/VI Youth >> >> Do you know an exceptional student who would >> benefit from a unique travel and leadership >> program? Nominate that student for the Global >> Explorers Leading the Way program at >> http://www.globalexplorers.org/programs/forms/nominate/grandcanyon/. >> Developed in partnership with world-renowned >> blind athlete Erik Weihenmayer, Leading the Way >> brings together blind and sighted youth ages >> 14-21 for a once-in-a-lifetime adventure >> combining leadership, science, culture, and >> service. Specifically, the program aims to achieve the following: >> >> ? Provide unparalleled leadership skills by >> learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. >> >> >> >> ? Develop confidence, independence, >> self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. >> >> >> >> ? Promote peer relationships am >> >> --------- ong youth of different backgrounds and abilities. >> >> >> >> ? Equip participants with the tools they >> need to step up and make a difference in the world. >> >> >> >> ? Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. >> >> >> >> ? Spread messages of hope by breaking down >> barriers between those with and without disabilities. >> >> >> Our summer 2011 Leading the Way destination is >> one of the 7 Natural Wonders of the World ? the >> majestic Grand Canyon! To learn more or to >> apply, please visit >> www.globalexplorers.org >> and click "Leading the Way." The application >> deadline is Monday, November 15. For more >> information, please contact Laura at >> laura at globalexplorers.org or >> 877.627.1425. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Riccobono, Mark >> <MRiccobono at nfb.org> wrote: >> Dear Laura, >> >> Please send an e-mail announcement we can send around. >> >> Mark >> >> >> ---------- >> From: Laura Portalupi [mailto:laura at globalexplorers.org] >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:24 PM >> To: Riccobono, Mark >> Subject: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program >> >> Dear Mark: >> My colleague Shannon has been in contact with you >> the past two years about the Global Explorers >> Leading the Way program. I'd like to introduce >> myself as the coordinator of Leading the Way for 2010-2011. >> I am so impressed with the work of the Jernigan >> Institute and feel our program closely aligns >> with the Institute's mission. Developed in >> partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer >> Erik Weihenmayer, the Global Explorers Leading >> the Way program joins blind, visually impaired, >> and sighted individuals between the ages of 14 >> and 21 for the adventure of a lifetime. Leading >> the Way integrates science, service, leadership, >> and culture in a 3-phase program that includes >> pre-travel preparatory curriculum, a >> life-changing travel experience, and a follow-up >> service leadership project. Specifically, the >> program aims to achieve the following: >> >> >> ? Provide unparalleled leadership skills by >> learning about and practicing No Barriers Leadership. >> >> >> >> ? Develop confidence, independence, >> self-awareness, and curiosity about the world in participants. >> >> >> >> ? Promote peer relationships among youth of >> different backgrounds and abilities. >> >> >> >> ? Equip participants with the tools they >> need to step up and make a difference in the world. >> >> >> >> ? Prepare participants to act on the passions they discover. >> >> >> >> ? Spread messages of hope by breaking down >> barriers between those with and without disabilities. >> Our summer 2011 destination is the majestic Grand >> Canyon. The application deadline is Monday, November 15. >> Would you be willing to share information about >> Leading the Way among your network? If so, I can >> provide you with an announcement for distribution >> via e-mail. I can also send you informational >> fliers as an attachment or via snail >> mail. Braille and large print materials are available upon request. >> Thank you so much for your time and >> assistance! I look forward to hearing from you. >> Kind regards, >> Laura Portalupi >> Leading the Way Fellow >> Global Explorers >> 420 S. Howes St. Suite B300 >> Fort Collins, CO 80521 >> (office) 877.627.1425 >> (fax) 970.672.1073 >> >> www.globalexplorers.org >> "This is a life-changing trip ... you will walk >> away as a different person." -Leading the Way Rim to River Participant, >> 2010 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:38:18 -0400 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> Message-ID: <68DDDEF2C01E4BB6B1EA53A9DE4BB636 at Rufus> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> Darrel, >> >> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is typical >> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >> >> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do not >> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >> blind >> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >> can't >> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public to >> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >> to >> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >> unemployable? >> >> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >> so >> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >> need >> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. If >> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >> waste >> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >> Braille Monitor... >> >> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >> the >> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and convey >> a >> more positive image? >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >> interesting. I >> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >> education and >> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >> job well and >> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >> blindness is >> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >> >> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >> woman. I thought >> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >> impressive. I also >> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >> the teaching >> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >> recognized the >> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >> this woman's >> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >> extraordnary. I do not >> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >> but I think >> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >> whether she has sight or not. >> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >> be expected >> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >> with one blind >> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >> individual and >> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >> the perfectly >> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >> inspirational >> and educational article to read. >> >> Just My Opinion, >> >> Darrel Kirby >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Mary Fernandez >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> Hey all, >> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >> Think about it. >> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >> you really have >> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >> article in my >> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >> assistants >> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >> hands out >> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >> searching >> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >> Mary >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >> hear, and that >> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >> and home in >> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >> move around >> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >> pretty southward >> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >> While the article >> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >> between her real capability and what people really think >> blindness is all >> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Andy, >>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >> South but in my >>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >> blind are >> ever >>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >> done. Blindness >> is >>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >> isn't. When I >>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >> proponent >>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >> sighted person is >>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >> those >>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >> exclusive, and >> this >>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >> having the >>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >> people know that >>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >> never >>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>> Happy cooking, >>>> Dennis >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Andi" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> >>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >> success but was >>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >> have also >> been >>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >> you have. I >>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >> "disability" >>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >> someone >>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >> trouble doing. >>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >> blind >>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >> about >>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >> sugjestions on how to >>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>> >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>> the quad-city times >>> >>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>> >>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>> >>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>> >>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >> atop >>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>> grater. >>> >>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>> >>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>> >>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>> >>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >> resident of Moline >>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>> >>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >> up, explaining >>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>> >>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >> So, she feels >>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >> her sense of >>>>> touch to make >>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>> >>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >> parsley with >>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >> because she >> is >>>>> one. >>> >>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >> exclusive >>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>> >>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>> >>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>> >>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >> adapted to it. >>> >>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>> >>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>> >>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >> with retinal >>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >> child. That is >>>>> what caused >>>>> her blindness. >>> >>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >> treat >>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>> >>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>> >>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >> She uses her >>>>> active imagination instead. >>> >>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >> spending her early >>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >> the blind or >>>>> special >>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>> >>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >> English >>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>> education at the >>>>> age of 10. >>> >>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >> Pam McDermott. >>>>> The two spent >>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >> remain >>>>> very close. >>> >>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >> describing situations >>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >> Helen Keller and >>>>> other people >>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>> >>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >> late father. >>> >>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >> quiet, >>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >> different >>>>> skin >>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >> subject came up at >>>>> school. >>> >>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >> people who told >>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>> >>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >> to talk or >> do >>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>> >>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >> possibilities for >>>>> her, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >> life-skills classes >> for >>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>> >>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>> >>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>> >>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>> >>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>> challenge. >>> >>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>> >>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>> >>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >> Chicago, an >>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >> as students >> but >>>>> not everyone >>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >> school's vice >>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >> curriculum is >>>>> tough. >>> >>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >> when it came >> to >>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>> school had >>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>> >>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >> impact >>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >> could >>>>> present >>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >> do so in a >> way >>>>> that would accommodate her. >>> >>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >> environment of >>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >> than cooking >>>>> at home. >>> >>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >> fire," he said. >>> >>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >> and desire" >> to >>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >> focus >>>>> via >>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>> >>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >> can describe >> it >>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >> your organs. She >>>>> just >>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>> >>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >> that's >>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>> >>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >> labeled things in >>>>> Braille. >>> >>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >> her sense of >>>>> smell to figure >>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >> whether meat >>>>> and other dishes are done. >>> >>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >> debone >>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>> feeding it >>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >> eyes and feel >>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >> where >>>>> and what >>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>> >>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >> Jell-O," she said. >>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>> >>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >> published in the >>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >> Evening News" >> to >>>>> feature >>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>> >>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >> maybe give her >>>>> some advice. >>> >>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >> chef at his >>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >> expected that, >>>>> least of >>>>> all Martinez. >>> >>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>> >>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >> said >>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>> >>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >> attributes which he >>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>> >>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >> later, she began >>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >> kitchen >>>>> and the >>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>> >>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >> sniffing >>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >> in Moline. >>> >>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >> hunting for just >> the >>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>> >>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>> >>>>> Still dreaming >>> >>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>> >>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>> >>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >> hands, which she >>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >> person, she >>>>> says, for food >>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >> the food that >>>>> she cooks a lot. >>> >>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >> recorded on CD, >> but >>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >> twist to an >>>>> old favorite. >>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >> lasagna, just to >> give >>>>> it some kick, she said. >>> >>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >> offering a >> mix >>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >> call the place >>>>> La Diosa, >>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>> >>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>> >>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >> energy to fight," >>>>> she added. >>> >>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>> >>>>>> Hi, >>> >>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >> However, I do >>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >> friend who >>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >> does this with >>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >> peripheral >>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >> would miss >>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >> etcetra). I use my >>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >> things in front >>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >> us, as he is >>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>> >>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >> to learn the >>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >> looking back, >>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >> because of my poor >>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >> that work go, >>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >> and sounds. >>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>> >>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >> at the same >>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >> free to shoot >>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >> don't like to >>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >> how good a >>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >> (he better >>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >> guides, too!), so >>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>> >>>>>> ~Jewel >>> >>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >> years of age, I >>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >> it until the >>>>>>> time I >>>>>>> was about five. >>> >>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >> I'll >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> it from you." >>> >>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >> without it! >>> >>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >> using it ever >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted >>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >> I'm going >> with >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to >>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >> technique is >> fine >>>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >> time being able >> to >>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >> not have the >>>>>>>> mind >>> >>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >> following, thus >> make >>>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >> in the same >>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >> using it? though >> I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >> bad experience >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >> ago in that >>>>>>>> when I >>> >>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >> it dusting, I >>>>>>>> held >>> >>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >> memories of >> the >>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them >>>>>>>> out >>> >>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >> guys? It's a >>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >> people >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >> in Mexico the >>>>>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >> using the cane >>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >> the sighted >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >> because of how >>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >> some day I hope >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >> hoping >>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >> more than one >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >> our roots >>>>>>>> brought >>> >>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >> waterbury%40 >> gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >> ykat2%40gmai >> l.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >> .dempsey%40g >> mail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >> lark%40sbcgl >> obal.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >> djedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >> 551%40gmail. >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >> 0mchsi.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >> 12:16:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:44:11 -0400 >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> The solution is, we need blind reporters. This way, we can have stories >> about the blind reported in a manner that portrays the story the way we >> want. Does any one know of a blind reporter that works for a large news >> outlet? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>> Darrel, >>> >>> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is >>> typical >>> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >>> >>> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do >>> not >>> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >>> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >>> blind >>> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >>> can't >>> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public >>> to >>> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >>> to >>> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >>> unemployable? >>> >>> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >>> so >>> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >>> need >>> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >>> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >>> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. >>> If >>> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >>> waste >>> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >>> Braille Monitor... >>> >>> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >>> the >>> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and >>> convey >>> >>> a >>> more positive image? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >>> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >>> interesting. I >>> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >>> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >>> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >>> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >>> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >>> education and >>> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >>> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >>> job well and >>> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >>> blindness is >>> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >>> >>> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >>> woman. I thought >>> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >>> impressive. I also >>> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >>> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >>> the teaching >>> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >>> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >>> recognized the >>> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >>> this woman's >>> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >>> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >>> extraordnary. I do not >>> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >>> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >>> but I think >>> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >>> whether she has sight or not. >>> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >>> be expected >>> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >>> with one blind >>> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >>> individual and >>> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >>> the perfectly >>> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >>> inspirational >>> and educational article to read. >>> >>> Just My Opinion, >>> >>> Darrel Kirby >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Mary Fernandez >>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> Hey all, >>> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >>> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >>> Think about it. >>> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >>> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >>> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >>> you really have >>> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >>> article in my >>> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >>> assistants >>> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >>> hands out >>> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >>> searching >>> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >>> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >>> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >>> Mary >>> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >>> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >>> hear, and that >>> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >>> and home in >>> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >>> move around >>> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >>> pretty southward >>> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >>> While the article >>> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >>> between her real capability and what people really think >>> blindness is all >>> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >>> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >>> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hello Andy, >>>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >>> South but in my >>>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >>> blind are >>> ever >>>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >>> done. Blindness >>> is >>>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >>> isn't. When I >>>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >>> proponent >>>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >>> sighted person is >>>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >>> those >>>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >>> exclusive, and >>> this >>>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >>> having the >>>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >>> people know that >>>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >>> never >>>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>>> Happy cooking, >>>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Andi" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >>> success but was >>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >>> have also >>> been >>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >>> you have. I >>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>> "disability" >>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>> someone >>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >>> trouble doing. >>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>> blind >>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>> about >>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >>> sugjestions on how to >>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>> atop >>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>> grater. >>>> >>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >>> resident of Moline >>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >>> up, explaining >>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>> >>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >>> So, she feels >>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >>> her sense of >>>>>> touch to make >>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>> parsley with >>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>> because she >>> is >>>>>> one. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >>> adapted to it. >>>> >>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >>> with retinal >>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >>> child. That is >>>>>> what caused >>>>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >>> She uses her >>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >>> spending her early >>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >>> the blind or >>>>>> special >>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>> education at the >>>>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >>> Pam McDermott. >>>>>> The two spent >>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>> remain >>>>>> very close. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >>> describing situations >>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >>> Helen Keller and >>>>>> other people >>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >>> late father. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >>> subject came up at >>>>>> school. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >>> people who told >>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>> >>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >>> to talk or >>> do >>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>> possibilities for >>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >>> life-skills classes >>> for >>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>> challenge. >>>> >>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>> Chicago, an >>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >>> as students >>> but >>>>>> not everyone >>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>> school's vice >>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>> curriculum is >>>>>> tough. >>>> >>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >>> when it came >>> to >>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>> school had >>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>> >>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>>>>> present >>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >>> do so in a >>> way >>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>> environment of >>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >>> than cooking >>>>>> at home. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >>> fire," he said. >>>> >>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >>> and desire" >>> to >>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>>>>> via >>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >>> can describe >>> it >>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >>> your organs. She >>>>>> just >>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >>> labeled things in >>>>>> Braille. >>>> >>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >>> her sense of >>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>> whether meat >>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>> feeding it >>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >>> eyes and feel >>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>> where >>>>>> and what >>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >>> Jell-O," she said. >>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >>> published in the >>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >>> Evening News" >>> to >>>>>> feature >>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >>> maybe give her >>>>>> some advice. >>>> >>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >>> chef at his >>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>> expected that, >>>>>> least of >>>>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>> said >>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >>> attributes which he >>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >>> later, she began >>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>> kitchen >>>>>> and the >>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>> sniffing >>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >>> in Moline. >>>> >>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >>> hunting for just >>> the >>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >>> hands, which she >>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>> person, she >>>>>> says, for food >>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >>> the food that >>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >>> recorded on CD, >>> but >>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>> twist to an >>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >>> lasagna, just to >>> give >>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>> offering a >>> mix >>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >>> call the place >>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>> >>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >>> energy to fight," >>>>>> she added. >>>> >>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>> However, I do >>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>> friend who >>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >>> does this with >>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>> peripheral >>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>> would miss >>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >>> etcetra). I use my >>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >>> things in front >>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >>> us, as he is >>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >>> to learn the >>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >>> looking back, >>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >>> because of my poor >>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >>> that work go, >>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >>> and sounds. >>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >>> at the same >>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >>> free to shoot >>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >>> don't like to >>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >>> how good a >>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >>> (he better >>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >>> guides, too!), so >>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >>> years of age, I >>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >>> it until the >>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>> was about five. >>>> >>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>> I'll >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> it from you." >>>> >>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>> without it! >>>> >>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >>> using it ever >>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>> sighted >>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >>> I'm going >>> with >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >>> doesn't know to >>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>> technique is >>> fine >>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >>> time being able >>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >>> not have the >>>>>>>>> mind >>>> >>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >>> following, thus >>> make >>>>>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >>> in the same >>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >>> using it? though >>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >>> bad experience >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >>> ago in that >>>>>>>>> when I >>>> >>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >>> it dusting, I >>>>>>>>> held >>>> >>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>> memories of >>> the >>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>> them >>>>>>>>> out >>>> >>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >>> guys? It's a >>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>> people >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >>> in Mexico the >>>>>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >>> using the cane >>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >>> the sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >>> country when I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >>> because of how >>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >>> some day I hope >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>> hoping >>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >>> more than one >>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >>> our roots >>>>>>>>> brought >>>> >>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >>> waterbury%40 >>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >>> ykat2%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >>> .dempsey%40g >>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >>> lark%40sbcgl >>> obal.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >>> djedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >>> 551%40gmail. >>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >>> 0mchsi.com >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >>> 12:16:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:05:15 -0600 >> From: "Marc Workman" >> To: , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> Message-ID: <7855B9B9D46646BFB0DEEEDD4E53D90B at MarcPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Joe asked, >> >> isn't it better for the public to hear stories of blind people actively >> working in the general public than to continue to rely on perceptions that >> blind people are still helpless and unemployable? >> >> Marc says, >> >> I haven't gone back to reread the posts on this, but I think it's worth >> noting that, if I recall correctly, no one said the story shouldn't have >> been written. It's possible to be critical of a story like this, and yet >> to >> believe that, overall, it's good that the story was written and printed. >> >> I don't think there's as much disagreement as it might seem. One can be >> critical and yet believe the story is good, and another can praise the >> story >> and yet believe it's not perfect. These are the positions I see being >> chalked out. >> >> There is a benefit to being critical of these sorts of stories; for as we >> go >> on to have stories written about us, or as we write stories ourselves, we >> will be in a better position to make sure that certain mistakes are not >> made >> again, that the stories are even better. If the criticism is motivated by >> envy, then we might have a problem, but I don't think that's what's >> driving >> any of the critical voices on this list. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>> Darrel, >>> >>> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is >>> typical >>> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >>> >>> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do >>> not >>> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >>> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >>> blind >>> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >>> can't >>> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public >>> to >>> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >>> to >>> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >>> unemployable? >>> >>> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >>> so >>> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >>> need >>> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >>> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >>> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. >>> If >>> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >>> waste >>> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >>> Braille Monitor... >>> >>> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >>> the >>> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and >>> convey >>> >>> a >>> more positive image? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >>> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >>> interesting. I >>> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >>> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >>> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >>> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >>> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >>> education and >>> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >>> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >>> job well and >>> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >>> blindness is >>> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >>> >>> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >>> woman. I thought >>> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >>> impressive. I also >>> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >>> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >>> the teaching >>> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >>> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >>> recognized the >>> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >>> this woman's >>> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >>> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >>> extraordnary. I do not >>> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >>> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >>> but I think >>> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >>> whether she has sight or not. >>> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >>> be expected >>> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >>> with one blind >>> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >>> individual and >>> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >>> the perfectly >>> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >>> inspirational >>> and educational article to read. >>> >>> Just My Opinion, >>> >>> Darrel Kirby >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Mary Fernandez >>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> Hey all, >>> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >>> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >>> Think about it. >>> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >>> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >>> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >>> you really have >>> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >>> article in my >>> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >>> assistants >>> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >>> hands out >>> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >>> searching >>> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >>> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >>> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >>> Mary >>> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >>> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >>> hear, and that >>> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >>> and home in >>> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >>> move around >>> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >>> pretty southward >>> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >>> While the article >>> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >>> between her real capability and what people really think >>> blindness is all >>> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >>> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >>> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hello Andy, >>>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >>> South but in my >>>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >>> blind are >>> ever >>>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >>> done. Blindness >>> is >>>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >>> isn't. When I >>>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >>> proponent >>>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >>> sighted person is >>>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >>> those >>>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >>> exclusive, and >>> this >>>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >>> having the >>>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >>> people know that >>>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >>> never >>>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>>> Happy cooking, >>>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Andi" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >>> success but was >>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >>> have also >>> been >>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >>> you have. I >>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>> "disability" >>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>> someone >>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >>> trouble doing. >>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>> blind >>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>> about >>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >>> sugjestions on how to >>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>> atop >>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>> grater. >>>> >>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >>> resident of Moline >>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >>> up, explaining >>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>> >>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >>> So, she feels >>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >>> her sense of >>>>>> touch to make >>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>> parsley with >>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>> because she >>> is >>>>>> one. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >>> adapted to it. >>>> >>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >>> with retinal >>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >>> child. That is >>>>>> what caused >>>>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >>> She uses her >>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >>> spending her early >>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >>> the blind or >>>>>> special >>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>> education at the >>>>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >>> Pam McDermott. >>>>>> The two spent >>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>> remain >>>>>> very close. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >>> describing situations >>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >>> Helen Keller and >>>>>> other people >>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >>> late father. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >>> subject came up at >>>>>> school. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >>> people who told >>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>> >>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >>> to talk or >>> do >>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>> possibilities for >>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >>> life-skills classes >>> for >>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>> challenge. >>>> >>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>> Chicago, an >>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >>> as students >>> but >>>>>> not everyone >>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>> school's vice >>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>> curriculum is >>>>>> tough. >>>> >>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >>> when it came >>> to >>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>> school had >>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>> >>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>>>>> present >>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >>> do so in a >>> way >>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>> environment of >>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >>> than cooking >>>>>> at home. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >>> fire," he said. >>>> >>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >>> and desire" >>> to >>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>>>>> via >>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >>> can describe >>> it >>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >>> your organs. She >>>>>> just >>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >>> labeled things in >>>>>> Braille. >>>> >>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >>> her sense of >>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>> whether meat >>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>> feeding it >>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >>> eyes and feel >>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>> where >>>>>> and what >>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >>> Jell-O," she said. >>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >>> published in the >>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >>> Evening News" >>> to >>>>>> feature >>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >>> maybe give her >>>>>> some advice. >>>> >>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >>> chef at his >>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>> expected that, >>>>>> least of >>>>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>> said >>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >>> attributes which he >>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >>> later, she began >>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>> kitchen >>>>>> and the >>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>> sniffing >>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >>> in Moline. >>>> >>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >>> hunting for just >>> the >>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >>> hands, which she >>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>> person, she >>>>>> says, for food >>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >>> the food that >>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >>> recorded on CD, >>> but >>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>> twist to an >>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >>> lasagna, just to >>> give >>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>> offering a >>> mix >>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >>> call the place >>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>> >>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >>> energy to fight," >>>>>> she added. >>>> >>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>> However, I do >>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>> friend who >>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >>> does this with >>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>> peripheral >>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>> would miss >>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >>> etcetra). I use my >>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >>> things in front >>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >>> us, as he is >>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >>> to learn the >>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >>> looking back, >>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >>> because of my poor >>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >>> that work go, >>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >>> and sounds. >>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >>> at the same >>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >>> free to shoot >>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >>> don't like to >>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >>> how good a >>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >>> (he better >>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >>> guides, too!), so >>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >>> years of age, I >>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >>> it until the >>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>> was about five. >>>> >>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>> I'll >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> it from you." >>>> >>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>> without it! >>>> >>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >>> using it ever >>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>> sighted >>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >>> I'm going >>> with >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >>> doesn't know to >>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>> technique is >>> fine >>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >>> time being able >>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >>> not have the >>>>>>>>> mind >>>> >>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >>> following, thus >>> make >>>>>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >>> in the same >>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >>> using it? though >>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >>> bad experience >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >>> ago in that >>>>>>>>> when I >>>> >>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >>> it dusting, I >>>>>>>>> held >>>> >>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>> memories of >>> the >>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>> them >>>>>>>>> out >>>> >>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >>> guys? It's a >>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>> people >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >>> in Mexico the >>>>>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >>> using the cane >>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >>> the sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >>> country when I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >>> because of how >>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >>> some day I hope >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>> hoping >>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >>> more than one >>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >>> our roots >>>>>>>>> brought >>>> >>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >>> waterbury%40 >>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >>> ykat2%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >>> .dempsey%40g >>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >>> lark%40sbcgl >>> obal.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >>> djedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >>> 551%40gmail. >>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >>> 0mchsi.com >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >>> 12:16:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:25:42 -0700 >> From: "Dennis Clark" >> To: , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> Message-ID: <004101cb5f29$cc4123b0$6601a8c0 at server> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Extremely well stated Joe. >> Dennis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >> >> >>> Darrel, >>> >>> I'm a little late in entering the thread, but excellent post as is >>> typical >>> when you can be coaxed to come out of lurking. (grin) >>> >>> I agree with Darrel's viewpoint. I'm a little bummed by people who do >>> not >>> chalk up this lady's success to be anything special, because to a certain >>> extent blind people need some type of media coverage to report on what >>> blind >>> people are doing. Unless a blind reporter is capturing the story, we >>> can't >>> count on a perfect story to be told, and isn't it better for the public >>> to >>> hear stories of blind people actively working in the general public than >>> to >>> continue to rely on perceptions that blind people are still helpless and >>> unemployable? >>> >>> I do not agree with this notion that blind people should try to blend in >>> so >>> much that our individual achievements are overshadowed by a persistent >>> need >>> to be thought of as "normal." Normal is an elusive concept, and I >>> personally celebrate anyone's accomplishment whether it's graduating from >>> high school or learning the first six letters in the Braille alphabet. >>> If >>> people's individual successes are so mundane, the kernel books were a >>> waste >>> of time and resources, and we may as well stop publishing most of the >>> Braille Monitor... >>> >>> Alternatively, if the media is not covering the types of success we want >>> the >>> public to hear about, why aren't we doing more to get out there and >>> convey >>> >>> a >>> more positive image? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of darrel kirby >>> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 3:22 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> I have been watching this thread closely and I find it very >>> interesting. I >>> feel that my current employment is rather normal. I strive to do my job >>> well. I am currently employed full-time as a therapist within the >>> Psychiatric Services Department of a large hospital. I often hear things >>> like "you are so amazing" and so on. I know that what I do is quite >>> ordinary. I use blind-skills in my life and at my job, but my >>> education and >>> practice to become a great therapist is not learned through >>> instruction/education focused on visual techniques. I do my >>> job well and >>> strive to be the best therapist I can be, but acknowledge that >>> blindness is >>> not a significant factor in becoming the therapist I want to become. >>> >>> However, when I read this article, I was amazed with this >>> woman. I thought >>> her courage and hard work in overcoming barriers is very >>> impressive. I also >>> recognize that she has dove into a profession that very few blind people >>> have had the courage to explore. I asked a friend of mine about >>> the teaching >>> approaches of instructors in a Culinary School. He stated that the >>> techniques are presented in mostly visual methods, but also >>> recognized the >>> importance of "hands-on" learning. My point being, I do thing >>> this woman's >>> ability to gain the skill and knowledge of professional cooking from >>> "standard" methods of Culinary Arts instruction is >>> extraordnary. I do not >>> believe that it takes a "super blind" person to become a blind chef or a >>> "super genious" to do what this young woman has accomplished, >>> but I think >>> from her story that she has a drive and determination that is amazing - >>> whether she has sight or not. >>> With all that being said, the author of the article should not >>> be expected >>> to know what it means to be blind by spending a few moments >>> with one blind >>> person. The over-all theme of the article gave credit to this >>> individual and >>> her drive to not let her blindness slow her down. Although not >>> the perfectly >>> written article from a blind person's perspective, it was an >>> inspirational >>> and educational article to read. >>> >>> Just My Opinion, >>> >>> Darrel Kirby >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Mary Fernandez >>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:25 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>> >>> Hey all, >>> Thanks Jedi for the .input I could not have said it better. I truly >>> understand how strong and incredible this woman is. >>> Think about it. >>> Her primary challenge wasn't so much that she was blind, but her life's >>> circumstances, over coming poverty, language barrier, not getting >>> appropriate services and such. Add to that her blindness and >>> you really have >>> to possess a lot of determination to do what she has. But this >>> article in my >>> opinion , makes it sound like if it hadn't been for the sighted >>> assistants >>> and what not, she wouldn't have made it. The whole holding your >>> hands out >>> and being lost in your own home, and the way they described her >>> searching >>> for the right knife is just not right. I mean, you don't see many >>> articles saying, oh look, Emerald peered closely at his knifes, being >>> careful not to touch the blade unless he cut himself. Just my thoughts. >>> Mary >>> On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>> Hey, didn't you happen to notice that the things she could do were >>> attributed to some superhuman ability to touch or smell or >>> hear, and that >>> the writer described her movements around the kitchen at school >>> and home in >>> much the same way the stereotypical blind person is thought to >>> move around >>> (helpless, lost, hands out in front of them, etc). That's >>> pretty southward >>> to me. I doubt that's how Martinez wanted to be portrayed. >>> While the article >>> doesn't minimize her accomplishments, it's definitely a juxtiposition >>> between her real capability and what people really think >>> blindness is all >>> about. Did you also happen to notice the whole Helen Keller theme where >>> Martinez was sort of brought into the world by an ever-patient sighted >>> mentor? Hmmmm. I can understand why Andy feels angry. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hello Andy, >>>>> I thought it was excellent. I kept waiting for it to go >>> South but in my >>>>> opinion it didn't. I do not think any of us who are totally >>> blind are >>> ever >>>>> going to impress sighted people more than this woman has >>> done. Blindness >>> is >>>>> a disability, even though many blind people argue that it >>> isn't. When I >>>>> hear that argument being made, it is always clear to me that its >>> proponent >>>>> is trying to convince him or her self of its truth. No >>> sighted person is >>>>> ever going to buy it. This woman is at the top of her game, and for >>> those >>>>> not familiar with Chicago, this restaurant is extremely >>> exclusive, and >>> this >>>>> article will do a lot to help us as a group be perceived as >>> having the >>>>> ability to be competent despite blindness. Most sighted >>> people know that >>>>> this blind woman is outperforming them, because they themselves could >>> never >>>>> get a job as a chef at a restaurant like this one. >>>>> Happy cooking, >>>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Andi" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:16 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> i read this article, and was excited about this womans >>> success but was >>>>>> angry about how the writer of the article portrayed her! I >>> have also >>> been >>>>>> rongly portrayed in newspaper articals as I am sure many of >>> you have. I >>>>>> find news papers like to make a spectical of any one with a >>> "disability" >>>>>> that does anything remotely normal and even more of a side show of >>> someone >>>>>> who does something most "able bodied" people would have >>> trouble doing. >>>>>> This makes me angry because they take a positive advancement for the >>> blind >>>>>> and turn it in to a condescension of the blind. How do you all feel >>> about >>>>>> this and other articals like it. Do you have any >>> sugjestions on how to >>>>>> redirect it back to a positive to the world? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame >>>>>> local/article_9884f76e-5023-11df-a9be-001cc4c03286 frame end >>>>>> the quad-city times >>>> >>>>>> FORMER MOLINE RESIDENT COOKS AT GOURMET RESTAURANT IN CHICAGO >>>> >>>>>> Blind chef gains national acclaim >>>> >>>>>> Kay Luna | Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:15 am >>>> >>>>>> Laura Martinez reaches out her hands, delicately running her fingers >>> atop >>>>>> the kitchen counter and across several sharp knives and a vegetable >>>>>> grater. >>>> >>>>>> She isn't afraid of getting cut. >>>> >>>>>> She never does, Martinez says. >>>> >>>>>> Picking up a very large knife, she feels the top of the blade. >>>> >>>>>> "This one is for vegetables," the 25-year-old former >>> resident of Moline >>>>>> softly says. "It has ridges." >>>> >>>>>> The other knife is even longer and heavier. She picks it >>> up, explaining >>>>>> that this one is called a chef's knife and she uses it to cut meat. >>>> >>>>>> But right now, Martinez needs to dice some fresh parsley. >>> So, she feels >>>>>> around on the counter again for the cutting board, using >>> her sense of >>>>>> touch to make >>>>>> sure the parsley is lined up just right. >>>> >>>>>> Then, without an ounce of fear, she begins chopping up the >>> parsley with >>>>>> the fast-moving technique employed by professional chefs - >>> because she >>> is >>>>>> one. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez works as a chef in the kitchen of Charlie Trotter's, an >>> exclusive >>>>>> gourmet restaurant in Chicago. >>>> >>>>>> She also happens to be blind. >>>> >>>>>> Fast learner gets inspiration >>>> >>>>>> When Martinez was little, she did not realize she was different from >>>>>> anyone else. She thought everyone lived in darkness. She >>> adapted to it. >>>> >>>>>> She wanted to become a surgeon someday. >>>> >>>>>> "I always liked knives," she said with a smile. >>>> >>>>>> When she got older, she learned that she had been diagnosed >>> with retinal >>>>>> blastoma, a type of cancer of the eyes, as a very young >>> child. That is >>>>>> what caused >>>>>> her blindness. >>>> >>>>>> Doctors removed one eye. Then the chemotherapy and radiation used to >>> treat >>>>>> the cancer ultimately ruined the vision in her other eye. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez cannot see anything. She cannot even detect light. >>>> >>>>>> In fact, she cannot remember ever seeing anything at all. >>> She uses her >>>>>> active imagination instead. >>>> >>>>>> She is also a fast learner, which came in handy after >>> spending her early >>>>>> childhood in a Mexican town that did not have a school for >>> the blind or >>>>>> special >>>>>> education classes. The closest school she could have attended was a >>>>>> three-hour car ride away. >>>> >>>>>> So, she stayed home and never learned to read or write in Spanish, >>> English >>>>>> or Braille until the family moved to Moline. She began her formal >>>>>> education at the >>>>>> age of 10. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez caught up eventually, blossoming even more when she reached >>>>>> Moline High School and met her one-on-one education aide, >>> Pam McDermott. >>>>>> The two spent >>>>>> every school day together, starting when Martinez was 15, and they >>> remain >>>>>> very close. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott spent a lot of time talking to Martinez, >>> describing situations >>>>>> and reading her books about the blind-and-deaf pioneer >>> Helen Keller and >>>>>> other people >>>>>> who overcame life's challenges. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez's mother does not speak English. Neither did her >>> late father. >>>> >>>>>> McDermott found herself explaining so many unexpected things to the >>> quiet, >>>>>> shy teenager - such as what flirting is and how some people have >>> different >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colors. She hated to be the one to tell her, but the >>> subject came up at >>>>>> school. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez began to dream about her future, but she faced >>> people who told >>>>>> her, "You can't do that. You're blind. There's no way," she said. >>>> >>>>>> "Kids would not come near me," Martinez said. "I was afraid >>> to talk or >>> do >>>>>> anything. But I don't give up." >>>> >>>>>> McDermott's influence helped open a whole new world of >>> possibilities for >>>>>> her, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> She learned to play piano. She moved away to take >>> life-skills classes >>> for >>>>>> the blind. She took community college classes. >>>> >>>>>> She dreamed about becoming a psychologist. >>>> >>>>>> Eventually her interest turned to cooking. She figured it might be a >>>>>> little like surgery. Why not give it a try? >>>> >>>>>> Martinez knew she would have to work harder than most to >>>> >>>>>> convince people that she could work as a chef. And she was up to the >>>>>> challenge. >>>> >>>>>> "I don't give up," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Culinary school brings challenges >>>> >>>>>> Martinez applied to the Le Cordon Bleu Culinary School in >>> Chicago, an >>>>>> open-enrollment institution where most people are accepted >>> as students >>> but >>>>>> not everyone >>>>>> graduates from the program, said Marshall Shafkowitz, the >>> school's vice >>>>>> president of academic affairs and student services. The >>> curriculum is >>>>>> tough. >>>> >>>>>> So was Shafkowitz, who admits he was "the biggest skeptic" >>> when it came >>> to >>>>>> considering how a blind student could succeed at Le Cordon Bleu. The >>>>>> school had >>>>>> never enrolled a visually impaired student before Martinez, he said. >>>> >>>>>> Initially, he was concerned how her presence in the classroom might >>> impact >>>>>> the other students' learning. Then he worried about how the teachers >>> could >>>>>> present >>>>>> the same curriculum, without lowering their standards, but >>> do so in a >>> way >>>>>> that would accommodate her. >>>> >>>>>> He did not know whether she could handle the fast-paced >>> environment of >>>>>> working in a commercial kitchen, which is so much different >>> than cooking >>>>>> at home. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a faster pace, with bigger knives and a lot more >>> fire," he said. >>>> >>>>>> After watching Martinez at school and witnessing her "drive >>> and desire" >>> to >>>>>> become a chef, Shafkowitz said he was amazed. He said her heightened >>> focus >>>>>> via >>>>>> the other senses, in the absence of sight, is her "superpower." >>>> >>>>>> "Her sense of touch is amazing," he said. "The only way I >>> can describe >>> it >>>>>> is the touch that a surgeon has when they're working on >>> your organs. She >>>>>> just >>>>>> has that delicate way with a knife." >>>> >>>>>> "She's not going to let anything hold her back," he added. "I think >>> that's >>>>>> 90 percent of who Laura is. Nobody's going to tell her no." >>>> >>>>>> The school hired an aide to help her get around. She >>> labeled things in >>>>>> Braille. >>>> >>>>>> Mostly, though, she learned by using her hands to feel everything - >>>>>> especially the food she was preparing and cooking. She uses >>> her sense of >>>>>> smell to figure >>>>>> out which spices to use. She uses both senses to determine >>> whether meat >>>>>> and other dishes are done. >>>> >>>>>> Her favorite culinary class was the one in which she learned how to >>> debone >>>>>> chicken and take the fat off beef before cutting it into chunks and >>>>>> feeding it >>>>>> into a grinder. The teacher asked everyone to close their >>> eyes and feel >>>>>> the joints and bones, the meat and the fat. That's how they learned >>> where >>>>>> and what >>>>>> to cut, Martinez said. >>>> >>>>>> "Fat feels different. It feels slippery, kind of like >>> Jell-O," she said. >>>>>> "I focus on the smell, sound and the feel." >>>> >>>>>> An article about the school's first blind student was >>> published in the >>>>>> Chicago Tribune during December, which inspired the "CBS >>> Evening News" >>> to >>>>>> feature >>>>>> her on national television. During the filming of that segment, CBS >>>>>> brought along internationally famous chef Charlie Trotter. >>>> >>>>>> They hoped he would observe Martinez in the kitchen and >>> maybe give her >>>>>> some advice. >>>> >>>>>> What he ended up giving her was a job offer: to work as a >>> chef at his >>>>>> exclusive Charlie Trotter's restaurant in Chicago. No one >>> expected that, >>>>>> least of >>>>>> all Martinez. >>>> >>>>>> "It's a big honor for me," she said. "It's very exclusive." >>>> >>>>>> Rochelle Smith Trotter, a spokeswoman for the Charlie Trotter Corp., >>> said >>>>>> Chef Trotter was very taken by Martinez's >>>> >>>>>> passion for food and her strong determination - "two >>> attributes which he >>>>>> utilizes to evaluate any potential team member," she said. >>>> >>>>>> Martinez graduated Feb. 11 from Le Cordon Bleu. A week >>> later, she began >>>>>> working at Trotter's, where she is familiarizing herself with the >>> kitchen >>>>>> and the >>>>>> restaurant's French-contemporary gourmet cuisine. >>>> >>>>>> "We use very expensive herbs from all over the world," she said, >>> sniffing >>>>>> assorted spices in plastic containers at her childhood home >>> in Moline. >>>> >>>>>> She kept picking up the spices and putting them down, >>> hunting for just >>> the >>>>>> right one to season the sauce for her lasagna. >>>> >>>>>> "Where's the salt?" she asked. >>>> >>>>>> Still dreaming >>>> >>>>>> Reaching her arms out in front of her, feeling for walls or other >>>>>> obstacles she might bump into, Martinez moves around the kitchen in >>>>>> Moline. She is lost >>>>>> because her family recently remodeled. >>>> >>>>>> "Where is the trash can?" she asks. >>>> >>>>>> She feels around until she finds the sink to wash her >>> hands, which she >>>>>> does repeatedly. She needs to stay cleaner than a sighted >>> person, she >>>>>> says, for food >>>>>> safety and sanitation reasons. That is because she touches >>> the food that >>>>>> she cooks a lot. >>>> >>>>>> Sometimes she browses cookbooks written in Braille or >>> recorded on CD, >>> but >>>>>> she likes to make up her own dishes or give her own special >>> twist to an >>>>>> old favorite. >>>>>> For example, she added grated jalapeno pepper to her >>> lasagna, just to >>> give >>>>>> it some kick, she said. >>>> >>>>>> She imagines herself someday opening a restaurant in Miami, >>> offering a >>> mix >>>>>> of French, Italian, Mexican and Asian cuisines. She would >>> call the place >>>>>> La Diosa, >>>>>> which, she said, is Spanish for "The Goddess." >>>> >>>>>> To those who might scoff at the idea, she says, "I'm not giving up." >>>> >>>>>> Skeptics don't discourage her. They just "give me the >>> energy to fight," >>>>>> she added. >>>> >>>>>> "I just say, 'I have to work harder to show you that I can.' " >>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Jewel S." >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>> I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. >>> However, I do >>>>>>> not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my >>> friend who >>>>>>> knows the way...especially since the person who usually >>> does this with >>>>>>> me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>>>>>> primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no >>> peripheral >>>>>>> vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I >>> would miss >>>>>>> with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>>>>>> head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, >>> etcetra). I use my >>>>>>> cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and >>> things in front >>>>>>> of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>>>>>> light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of >>> us, as he is >>>>>>> not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >>>> >>>>>>> I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely >>> to learn the >>>>>>> route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, >>> looking back, >>>>>>> I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly >>> because of my poor >>>>>>> memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>>>>>> charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let >>> that work go, >>>>>>> and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, >>> and sounds. >>>>>>> I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >>>> >>>>>>> Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane >>> at the same >>>>>>> time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel >>> free to shoot >>>>>>> me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I >>> don't like to >>>>>>> put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter >>> how good a >>>>>>> guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>>>>>> would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>>>>>> cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding >>> (he better >>>>>>> be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted >>> guides, too!), so >>>>>>> I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>>>>>> need it, but I put my trust in him. >>>> >>>>>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>>>>> On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>>>>>>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three >>> years of age, I >>>>>>>> started learning how to use the cane. >>>> >>>>>>>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use >>> it until the >>>>>>>> time I >>>>>>>> was about five. >>>> >>>>>>>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? >>> I'll >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> it from you." >>>> >>>>>>>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around >>> without it! >>>> >>>>>>>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been >>> using it ever >>>>>>>> since. >>>>>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >>> sighted >>>>>>>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom >>> I'm going >>> with >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >>> doesn't know to >>>>>>>>> alert >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this >>> technique is >>> fine >>>>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>>>>>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same >>> time being able >>> to >>>>>>>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might >>> not have the >>>>>>>>> mind >>>> >>>>>>>>> to let us know. >>>>>>>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route >>> following, thus >>> make >>>>>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>>>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>>>>>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending >>> in the same >>>>>>>>> email: >>>>>>>>> Is >>>>>>>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in >>> using it? though >>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a >>> bad experience >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years >>> ago in that >>>>>>>>> when I >>>> >>>>>>>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having >>> it dusting, I >>>>>>>>> held >>>> >>>>>>>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because >>> memories of >>> the >>>>>>>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >>> them >>>>>>>>> out >>>> >>>>>>>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you >>> guys? It's a >>>>>>>>> conflict >>>>>>>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind >>> people >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here >>> in Mexico the >>>>>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when >>> using the cane >>>>>>>>> gives >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making >>> the sighted >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >>> country when I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things >>> because of how >>>>>>>>> advanced >>>>>>>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. >>> some day I hope >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus >>> hoping >>>>>>>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which >>> more than one >>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating >>> our roots >>>>>>>>> brought >>>> >>>>>>>>> on recently. >>>>>>>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton. >>> waterbury%40 >>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt >>> ykat2%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne >>> .dempsey%40g >>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgc >>> lark%40sbcgl >>> obal.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblin >>> djedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian >>> 551%40gmail. >>> com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%4 >>> 0mchsi.com >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3146 - Release Date: 09/24/10 >>> 12:16:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 33 >> ************************************** >> > Let me introduce my self. My name is Renee Jones. Have you tried > "Black Jack?" It can help you prepare for Monte Carlo Night! > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 29 00:32:49 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:32:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] San Francisco LightHouse is looking for interns Message-ID: > >Californians, > >The development department of the Lighthouse for the Blind is looking >for two interns. The full descriptions for each position are attached. >below you can find short descriptions for each internship. > >If you are interested or have any questions, please contact Jennifer >Yeagley, Director of Development at jyeagley at lighthouse-sf.org or >415-694-7333. > >Regards, >Lisamaria > >Multimedia Intern: >LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired - Multi-Media Intern >Assist with video, audio and photo capture and editing; gathering and >publishing content for print and on-line publications; and capturing >client stories in writing, video and audio. Great entry-level or >career-changer opportunity for aspiring non-profit marketing >professional. Unpaid position with flexible hours. Contact Jennifer >Yeagley at (415) 694-7333 or jyeagley at lighthouse-sf.org. > >Development Intern: >LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired ­ Development Intern >Assist with donor relations and stewardship; data entry and list >management; and development administrative functions. Excellent way to >learn the “nuts and bolts” of a fast-paced development office. Unpaid >position with flexible hours. Contact Jennifer Yeagley at (415) >694-7333 or jyeagley at lighthouse-sf.org. > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, >version of virus signature database 5487 (20100928) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > >Content-Type: application/msword; > name="Development Intern Job Description.doc" >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Development Intern Job Description.doc" >X-Attachment-Id: file1 > >Content-Type: application/msword; > name="Multi-Media Intern Job Description.doc" >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Multi-Media Intern Job Description.doc" >X-Attachment-Id: file2 David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Development Intern Job Description.doc Type: application/msword Size: 55296 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Multi-Media Intern Job Description.doc Type: application/msword Size: 53760 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 29 00:46:43 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:46:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] [nagdu] Requesting information: In-Reply-To: <486939.95784.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <486939.95784.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What is an "accessible / blind friendly town," prey tell? One with good public transportation -- or something else? That would seem to vary from person to person. Also, it might be a good idea to join the maryland-related lists, greater baltimore, nfbmd, nfb-sligo, nationalharbor. Go to nfb.org and choose first link, and all lists show up there. Dave At 03:44 PM 9/28/2010, William ODonnell wrote: >List moderator, I would like to cross-post the >following: Thank you I have a friend who is >interested in attending the University of >Maryland. She is also looking at permanently >relocating to Maryland. Can anyone on the list >email her with suggestions of accessible/blind >friendly towns. Yvetta’s email is: >yvtsc at aol.com Please write “Maryland” in the >subject. In the event that you need an immediate >response from me, please email me at my gmail >address. The address is: william.odonnell1 at gmail.com Thank you. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 01:23:37 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:23:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Calendar Message-ID: Hi all, I was just wondering if anyone has had success using Google Calendar with JAWS? I am in two lab groups that use Google Calendar to keep track of research assistant schedules, but when I've tried to use it, I can't click the links to go from one calendar to the next, or to click on a particular date. It basically acts like Gmail does in the "standard" view mode, except that unlike in Gmail, there is no option for basic (JAWS-friendly) html. Has anyone discovered any workarounds for this? Thanks! Arielle From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Sep 29 02:37:16 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:37:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature Message-ID: <20100929023716.29914.6058@ip-10-122-95-63.ec2.internal> Sean, Are these commands specific to any particular screen reader, or are they universal? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > You can see, in the virtual viewer, a list of all comments in a document by > pressing windows key plus ;. Then choose "comments" from the list of > choices. To insert a comment, press alt plus I, and then M. These commands > should work in Office '03 and '07. > Sean > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From kramc11 at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 03:16:15 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:16:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] MassABS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2BCBC4851C8545BD8A39768B20971221@SonyPC> The Massachusetts Association of Blind Students (MassABS) is now on facebook and twitter. Feel free to follow us on twitter, or like us on facebook. We also have a group on facebook you can join. From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 04:03:34 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:03:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Bulletin Additions Message-ID: Hi all, Convention season is in full swing! Do you have an exciting convention coming up, or some cool goings-on from your latest convention that you'd like to brag about? Please send me your brief announcements/updates by Monday Oct. 4, for the next NABS bulletin. Thanks! Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From gera1027 at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 04:49:33 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:49:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to acquire info via touch in exercises? Message-ID: <00c201cb5f91$b87d57f0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys, especially psychologists on here: When you have your patients do exercises in which you get them to move their bodies (like in Gestalt's The Statue or when you do the Gestalt technique to renact dreams) how do you ask or how do you feel their bodies to make sure if they're doing the right movements or their postures so you can reflect details you may perceive with your touch that the patient might not notice? I wanted to make sure a patient of mine had the posture she was describing during The Statue exercise but was embarrased to ask ifI could feel, thus my question how have you handled these situations in which you know that by feel you may get more info yourself? Gerardo From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 04:56:55 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:56:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Calendar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> If you use MS Outlook, you can download Google Calendar Sync and use Outlook to view and share appointments. It's not perfect, but it's one workaround. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:24 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Google Calendar Hi all, I was just wondering if anyone has had success using Google Calendar with JAWS? I am in two lab groups that use Google Calendar to keep track of research assistant schedules, but when I've tried to use it, I can't click the links to go from one calendar to the next, or to click on a particular date. It basically acts like Gmail does in the "standard" view mode, except that unlike in Gmail, there is no option for basic (JAWS-friendly) html. Has anyone discovered any workarounds for this? Thanks! Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 05:01:43 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:01:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fall 2010 Student Slate! Message-ID: Greetings NABS members, Attached please find another exciting issue of our quarterly publication, the Student Slate. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Student Slate Fall 2010.doc Type: application/msword Size: 101888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 17:33:27 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:33:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ms word comments feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002001cb5ffc$6dbecfd0$493c6f70$@com> Jedi, Sorry, I don't even think outside of the JAWS paradigm. The alt plus I, M, to insert comments is a Word keyboard command, but the more useful, windows key plus ; to display comments is a JAWS feature. It brings up a list of items, including comments, footnotes, endnotes, and track changes revisions, that you can view in the virtual viewer. Outside of JAWS, I do not know how to deal with either comments or track changes. Take care, Sean From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 20:55:31 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:55:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities In-Reply-To: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> References: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> Message-ID: Hi Students, For one of my classes, I need to work 15 volunteer hours. I have contacted a few agencies in my area. So here is my question, do you tell the agency that you will be volunteering at, that your blind or visually impaired? The reason I am asking, where I live does not have good transportation, mainly because I am so far out of the city and in the burbs. The one agency I already spoke to, wanted me to visit the homes of elderly blind people. I would not normally mind this, but with my transportation woes, I can't secure transportation for this. I am already paying a driver to get to and from school. And the money that I was "suppose" to get from my state to help with these cost, has not come in as of yet. So do you tell the place that you will be volunteering at, that your blind? Because I could not go to the elderly persons home, the agency did not want me. There are a lot of other things I could be doing. What do you all think? Marsha __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5490 (20100929) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:14:02 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:14:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities In-Reply-To: References: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> Message-ID: Greetings, I would check out the extent of the work the organization needed and see how much of it absolutely required vision. If I felt confident that I could do the work and needed no assistance, I would not disclose. If it required some assistance that I think may not require a great amount of divirsion of resources, I would mention my vision, what i could do and what aspects of the work I may need some assistance in completing. On 9/29/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Hi Students, > > For one of my classes, I need to work 15 volunteer hours. I have contacted a > few agencies in my area. So here is my question, do you tell the agency that > you will be volunteering at, that your blind or visually impaired? The > reason I am asking, where I live does not have good transportation, mainly > because I am so far out of the city and in the burbs. The one agency I > already spoke to, wanted me to visit the homes of elderly blind people. I > would not normally mind this, but with my transportation woes, I can't > secure transportation for this. I am already paying a driver to get to and > from school. And the money that I was "suppose" to get from my state to help > with these cost, has not come in as of yet. > > So do you tell the place that you will be volunteering at, that your blind? > Because I could not go to the elderly persons home, the agency did not want > me. There are a lot of other things I could be doing. > > What do you all think? > > Marsha > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5490 (20100929) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Sep 29 21:19:35 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:19:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities In-Reply-To: References: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> Message-ID: <13EE8B54153548D4B20F678379978499@AnitaAdkinsPC> What kind of class is it? What I am thinking is, could you volunteer somehow at home since you don't have transportation? It is probably okay to let a place know you are blind, but not because you don't have transportation. These places might hire you in the future, and you want to show them you can solve problems rather than presenting them with challenges you don't know how to solve. But, back to my original question. When I was at an NFB event one time, they told me the had numbers of blind people to call and share news about the NFB about and just to talk to them about blindness by first listening to their story and being understanding and respectful about what they say. So would something like that help? You could contact your chapter or state president and ask for these names? That wouldn't need to be for the entire 15 hours, but maybe it could work for some of them. White cane month is coming up, and so maybe your chapter is holding an event that could count. Or, could you volunteer bake and provide that to the older blind citizens by only having a driver take you around one day after spending the time making the food? Or, could you sew for some organization at home, or maybe do some other such project that would benefit a church or other group. For example, they might need a newsletter created, a song book translated into Braille or audio for a blind member, etc. that you could do for them by scanning and then slating out or brailling? Or, do you have a bank or something near that you you could walk to do volunteer shredding or maybe a school near you where you could help out with something? Just some ideas. They may not be the ones you are looking for, but maybe they can jump start your creativity. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities > Hi Students, > > For one of my classes, I need to work 15 volunteer hours. I have contacted > a > few agencies in my area. So here is my question, do you tell the agency > that > you will be volunteering at, that your blind or visually impaired? The > reason I am asking, where I live does not have good transportation, mainly > because I am so far out of the city and in the burbs. The one agency I > already spoke to, wanted me to visit the homes of elderly blind people. I > would not normally mind this, but with my transportation woes, I can't > secure transportation for this. I am already paying a driver to get to and > from school. And the money that I was "suppose" to get from my state to > help > with these cost, has not come in as of yet. > > So do you tell the place that you will be volunteering at, that your > blind? > Because I could not go to the elderly persons home, the agency did not > want > me. There are a lot of other things I could be doing. > > What do you all think? > > Marsha > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5490 (20100929) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:23:00 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:23:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities In-Reply-To: References: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> Message-ID: <9C21D0F50883429DB75C7F9B5765ECAA@Rufus> I disagree. I think in volunteer capacities, it's really okay to disclose blindness, unless there's some issue of personal privacy the individual has. You're offering your services free of charge. You're going to do something for the organization or company that they're not going to have to use someone else's staff time, and if they're interested in taking advantage of this rare opportunity, they'll find something for you to do that fits your capacity and their needs. It's easier than having to explain later on down the road that blindness might be a factor in keeping you from accomplishing a task. Consider registering with Idealist.org or VolunteerMatch.org for opportunities. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities Greetings, I would check out the extent of the work the organization needed and see how much of it absolutely required vision. If I felt confident that I could do the work and needed no assistance, I would not disclose. If it required some assistance that I think may not require a great amount of divirsion of resources, I would mention my vision, what i could do and what aspects of the work I may need some assistance in completing. On 9/29/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Hi Students, > > For one of my classes, I need to work 15 volunteer hours. I have contacted a > few agencies in my area. So here is my question, do you tell the agency that > you will be volunteering at, that your blind or visually impaired? The > reason I am asking, where I live does not have good transportation, mainly > because I am so far out of the city and in the burbs. The one agency I > already spoke to, wanted me to visit the homes of elderly blind people. I > would not normally mind this, but with my transportation woes, I can't > secure transportation for this. I am already paying a driver to get to and > from school. And the money that I was "suppose" to get from my state to help > with these cost, has not come in as of yet. > > So do you tell the place that you will be volunteering at, that your blind? > Because I could not go to the elderly persons home, the agency did not want > me. There are a lot of other things I could be doing. > > What do you all think? > > Marsha > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5490 (20100929) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf b%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:26:51 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:26:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities In-Reply-To: <13EE8B54153548D4B20F678379978499@AnitaAdkinsPC> References: <95F23B0E423140E39C5B7D94EB1EAF4B@Rufus> <13EE8B54153548D4B20F678379978499@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: All very good ideas. My class is a Social Services, a requirement for my degree as a Social Worker. Thank you for the suggestions, keep them coming. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anita Adkins Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities What kind of class is it? What I am thinking is, could you volunteer somehow at home since you don't have transportation? It is probably okay to let a place know you are blind, but not because you don't have transportation. These places might hire you in the future, and you want to show them you can solve problems rather than presenting them with challenges you don't know how to solve. But, back to my original question. When I was at an NFB event one time, they told me the had numbers of blind people to call and share news about the NFB about and just to talk to them about blindness by first listening to their story and being understanding and respectful about what they say. So would something like that help? You could contact your chapter or state president and ask for these names? That wouldn't need to be for the entire 15 hours, but maybe it could work for some of them. White cane month is coming up, and so maybe your chapter is holding an event that could count. Or, could you volunteer bake and provide that to the older blind citizens by only having a driver take you around one day after spending the time making the food? Or, could you sew for some organization at home, or maybe do some other such project that would benefit a church or other group. For example, they might need a newsletter created, a song book translated into Braille or audio for a blind member, etc. that you could do for them by scanning and then slating out or brailling? Or, do you have a bank or something near that you you could walk to do volunteer shredding or maybe a school near you where you could help out with something? Just some ideas. They may not be the ones you are looking for, but maybe they can jump start your creativity. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer opportunities > Hi Students, > > For one of my classes, I need to work 15 volunteer hours. I have contacted > a > few agencies in my area. So here is my question, do you tell the agency > that > you will be volunteering at, that your blind or visually impaired? The > reason I am asking, where I live does not have good transportation, mainly > because I am so far out of the city and in the burbs. The one agency I > already spoke to, wanted me to visit the homes of elderly blind people. I > would not normally mind this, but with my transportation woes, I can't > secure transportation for this. I am already paying a driver to get to and > from school. And the money that I was "suppose" to get from my state to > help > with these cost, has not come in as of yet. > > So do you tell the place that you will be volunteering at, that your > blind? > Because I could not go to the elderly persons home, the agency did not > want > me. There are a lot of other things I could be doing. > > What do you all think? > > Marsha > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5490 (20100929) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.n et _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5490 (20100929) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5490 (20100929) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pyyhkala at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 23:48:46 2010 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:48:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] URGENT: Comments Due In to FCC Thursday 09/30 On Cell Phone Accessibility, Comments May Now Be Filed Via Email Message-ID: The comment filing instructions are also on the web page: http://twishort.com/abte6 Each section of this email is separated by ### Greetings, Over the past 2 days or so I have gotten a bit more information on the specific nuts and bolts of the procedures that should be used to file FCC comments regarding mobile phone accessibility. Hot off the presses, is that a senior manager at the FCC has now authorized official comments to be filed and received via standard email messages because some consumers have had difficulty working with the official FCC Electronic Comment Filing System ECFS. This message first contains detailed comment filing instructions, and then provides a detailed account of items you may wish to address in your comments. ###Detailed Comment Filing Instructions Method 1: FCC Express Electronic Comment Filing System This comment filing method is best suited for individuals submitting comments. *Access the web site: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs2/hotdocket/list *Look for the text that says "If the docket you're looking for is not listed," and then click on the link called "Click Here to manually enter the docket number on the upload page"; *Enter the following proceeding number when prompted: 10-145 *Enter your contact information, type in or paste your comments, and press the continue button; *follow any other instructions on subsequent screens to complete your submission. Method 2: File Comments by email *Compose a standard email message addressed to either pam.gregory at fcc.gov or jamal.mazrui at fcc.gov *Include the docket number in your subject line: 10-145 *Include your comments either in the text body of your email or as an attached Microsoft Word 97/2000/2003 or PDF file; Method 3: FCC Electronic Comment Filing System This system allows you to upload a file attachment, such as a Microsoft Word 97/2000/2003 or PDF file, in order to submit comments. *Access the web site: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/ *Click on the link called Submit A Filing *Enter the following proceeding number: 10-145 *Fill in the contact details, and other questions requested on the form. Specify the file(s) you want to upload, and press the Continue button; *Follow any subsequent instructions on next screens to ensure your filing is recorded. ###Ideas for comments on Mobile Phone Accessibility for the Blind Dozens or hundreds of pages of material have been written that might give you ideas and perspective on what to say in your comments. Your own real life stories are also invaluable. I for example include a real life story at the end of this message. Some items to consider addressing in your individual or affiliate comments are: *How accessible on a wide range of devices, especially entry level and prepaid phones, is sms text messaging to the blind? Had the telecommunications industry embraced accessibility such that these types of features are available on a broad spectrum of devices including inexpensive handsets? If you have 100 or 1,000 blind people in a room how many can text, let alone used advanced features on their cell phones? By the way, sms text messaging is something that has been available to the public at large for many years, and is no longer considered a cutting edge or advanced feature in the industry; *How well has the mobile telecommunications ecosystem addressed the cost of accessibility? Should device manufacturers be passing on the costs of accessibility to blind consumers who have a 70% unemployment rate? Or like Apple, should the device manufacturer assume the accessibility r&d and implementation cost? ###Microsoft Windows Phone 7 Inaccessible To the Blind *Are you aware that in October 2010 Microsoft will release a platform called Windows Phone 7 This platform strives to compete with the likes of Apple iOS eg iPhones, Blackberry devices, Android devices, etc. Microsoft has indicated that Windows Phone 7 will not have out-of-the-box accessibility, and furthermore, it has not been developed in such a way as to allow 3rd party access technology screen reader developers, like CodeFactory or Nuance, to add accessibility to the platform. The net result is that blind Americans will be excluded from the opportunity to participate and experience Windows Phone 7. Commenters might suggest that the FCC take enforcement action against Microsoft for its fflagrant disregard and negligent behavior as it relates to nonvisual access for people who are blind, or deaf blind in the development of this operating system and related hardware devices. ###Relaxed Apple App Development Standards May Cause Accessibility To Decrease *Did you know that in September 2010, Apple significantly relaxed restrictions in place as to what software development tools can be used to produce so-called iOS applications. The prior in place required software development tools largely had out-of-the-box accessibility components such that most applications would work with VoiceOver via speech or refreshable Braille. Among other tools, Apple will now allow Adobe Flash as a development platform for makers of applications. Commenters may wish to suggest that the FCC mandate accessibility with in current and emerging so-called application stores or marketplaces. All major platforms have these marketplaces including Apple, Android, BlackBerry, and likely Microsoft Windows Phone 7 ###Google, Device Manufacturers Turn Off Android Accessibility T-Mobile HTC *Did you know that Google allows mobile carriers to tweak and modify the operating system and user interface on Android handsets. Recently, T-Mobile in the US released an HTC Android cell phone. T-Mobile requested that HTC tweak the Android operating system such that the accessibility features were not available to consumers. These disservice consumers had to spend large amounts of time navigating the bureaucracy of the telecommunications mobile ecosystem, namely interfacing with T-Mobile and HTC. Neither T-Mobile or HTC addressed the accessibility shortcoming, and wireless carrier T-Mobile by its 1st level agents attempted to rigorously enforce contract terms on the disenfranchised class of consumers who were negatively impacted by the carrier and manufactuers lack of regard for blind and deaf blind Americans. The FCC could promulgate regulations to disallow carriers and device manufacturers from turning off accessibility features in the future. The FCC should also reprimand HTC and T-Mobile, and ensure that these entities follow the proposed regulations. ###Major Accessibility Issues On Nokia Devices *Did you know that Nokia produces a number of handsets including the Nokia N86 which is one device that powers the KNFB Reader? Many aspects of the user experience on modern Nokia mobile phone handsets are inaccessible by nonvisual means. For example, when a blind or deaf blind consumer unboxes a device like a Nokia N86 from the factory, there is no nonvisual access to the setup procedure. Similarly, the PC Suite software which is essential to use the device fully has largely not been accessible to pc screen readers. Nokia also has a store where consumers can buy applications and other media. The store is not accessible even with 3rd party screen readers such as Talks or Mobile Speaks. Finally for a long time the email client on the Nokia N86 and similar devices was not accessible via nonvisual means. This meant that business professionals and consumers who are blind could not access key features of the phone that sighted users take for granted. Nokia has failed to address these major and substantial accessibility issues in their products. Nokia has been made aware of these issues, and has failed to substantively address these issues. The FCC should initiate an enforcement action against Nokia for its wantan, negligent, and flagrant disregard of blind, and deaf blind consumers who require nonvisual means to access these kinds of devices and platforms. Nokia has failed to either provide an out-of-box fully accessible platform such as the Apple model, and it has failed to work with 3rd party screen reader developers to ensure that blind and deaf blind consumers can fully utilize the devices. ###Google Android Accessibility While some individuals have worked on nonvisual accessibility to Google Android devices, the devices remain largely inaccessible by typical blind consumers. Only savvy technology users have been able to gain access to parts of the Android experience. The nonvisual user experience has been articulated as similar to trying to access Lenux. Clearly the strategy that Google, carriers, and related device manufacturers have employed has nott produced a sufficient and meaningful nonvisual user experience. The FCC must compel Google, device manufacturers, and carriers to establish tangible accessibility to the Android platform quickly, and quickly doesn't mean 10 years from now. ###Do Blind People Just Want Access To Old and Boring Features? It is worth noting that, sometimes, carriers and device manufacturers, including but not limited to Nokia, trumpet very basic accessibility features. For example, spoken caller id, or a phone speaking the numbers that a user dials. The fact is that blind and deaf blind consumers don't just want access to old and boring features that were standard in the year 1999. Blind and deaf blind consumers have an inherent civil right to enjoy the full breath and depth that current and future mobile phone platforms currently do and will offer in the future. This includes, but is not limited too, full nonvisual access to basic calling features, phone management, phone menus, full contact management, web browsing, application marketplaces, applications provided by carriers, applications provided by 3rd party developers, media consumption services provided by the 2 aformentioned provider groups, etc. Again, this is not an exhaustive list. The list may sound long, however, this is the access that the general public enjoys and frankly takes for granted. I want to update my Facebook status, Twitter status, share music and other media, download podcasts, produce podcasts, find nearby restaurants, and get walking directions just as much as I want to use the phone to make calls. ###How Nonvisual Mobile Device Accessibility Is Achievable This type of nonvisual accessibility is also achieveable. The reason we have not moved forward much since 1996 is that carriers and device manufacturers have failed to devote sufficient resources to nonvisual access to their products and services. The industry has made disingeneous claims that accessibility is not achievable. The entire telecommunications ecosystem has not embraced nonvisual access and accessibility in to their corporate culture and corporate DNA at every level of their organizations from the CEO, their research and development efforts, standars for device manufacturers, right down to entry level sales and service staff. The telecommunications ecosystem and related industry should really take a page out of Apple's playbook. Apple is the only device manufacturer that I am aware of that takes accessibility seriously, and which provides consumers with a steady stream of positive innovations. Apple regularly and meaningfully participates in consumer and accessibility industry trade shows such as the National Federation of the Blind convention. The Boston Apple Store proactively reaches out to the blind community to foster a mutually beneficial positive relationship, and has devoted resources in its training programs who specialize in the built in VoiceOver nonvisual accessibility screen reading function. I often read that Apple hires accessibility engineers, testers, and others to ensure its products are accessible. Apple includes full nonvisual accessibility functions, not just a few old and boring basic features, in all its current iPhones at no additional cost to blind consumers! The National Federation of the Blind presented an award to Apple at our 2010 national convention for their trailblazing efforts in meaningfully and tangibly recognizing our technology civil rights. I can update my Facebook status, check in to FourSquare, buy music from iTunes, order a taxi electronically, look up and modify travel reservations, syncranize corporate Microsoft Exchange data, review nearby tweets on Twitter, or send a picture of something I need recognized to an innovative iOS application like OMobie. I can do all this because Apple takes nonvisual accessibility seriously! Other developments that the FCC can consider as proof of concept that full nonvisual accessibility is achieveable include but are not limited to closed captioning in televisions, the wide deployment of talking automatic teller machines, and the use of nonvisual accessible Kiosks at Amtrak which like an ATM provide a spoken user interface for blind consumers. From ccook01 at knology.net Thu Sep 30 00:28:47 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:28:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] computer programming? Message-ID: Do any of you have any experience with programming in the c programming language? Also thoughts on doing math when you don't have access to Braille materials? Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu Sep 30 00:45:15 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:45:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Nonvisual Accessibility Web Certification Granted to Instructure Learning Management System Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Cory Reid, Vice President Director of Public Relations Instructure National Federation of the Blind (801) 436-8095 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 cory at instructure.com (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Nonvisual Accessibility Web Certification Granted to Instructure Learning Management System System Certified as Equally Accessible to Blind and Sighted Users Baltimore, Maryland (September 29, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by blind Americans, has awarded the Gold Level NFB-NVA Certification to Instructure for its learning management system, "Canvas." The NFB applauds Instructure's commitment to ensuring equal access to its Web-based learning management system for blind students and commends the company for its leadership in Web accessibility. Instructure's Canvas is a new learning management system (LMS) that takes usability to a whole new level, and saves instructors time, providing more freedom for curriculum development and working with students. Since communication is key to the learning process, Canvas incorporates up-to-date multimedia and social media tools for reaching way beyond classroom discussions and e-mail to creating a collaborative learning environment. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The Internet has become integrated into every aspect of life, including education. As more and more institutions of higher learning employ online learning platforms, it is crucial to ensure that blind students have equal access to these systems so that they are not placed at a serious disadvantage relative to their sighted peers. We commend Instructure for making its online learning management system fully accessible and therefore giving blind students and teachers independent access to Instructure's services." Anne Taylor, director of access technology for the National Federation of the Blind, said: "It has been a pleasure working with Instructure to make its Web site and learning management system accessible to all blind users. We appreciate the Instructure team's hard work and congratulate them on achieving Gold Level NFB-NVA Certification." Cory Reid, vice president of Instructure, said: "Accessibility has been a priority since our inception, and we are committed to providing all students and teachers with the same innovative platform. We're honored to be working with the NFB, and are grateful for their pioneering work in accessibility, and their foundational contributions to education." The NFB Nonvisual Accessibility Web Certification Program connects Web site and application developers with leading experts on blindness and accessibility to ensure that their Internet sites or applications are fully accessible to and usable by blind people employing screen access software. Applicants go through a rigorous evaluation and testing procedure and, if they choose to, work with a web accessibility consultant (WAC) to address any accessibility issues discovered during the evaluation. Once the site or application has addressed all accessibility issues, it is granted the right to display an NFB-NVA certification seal on its site. Sites are continuously monitored to ensure that they remain compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains accessible, its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind and the WAC will work with the site developers to remedy them. For more information on the NFB-NVA Certification, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/certification_intro.asp. To learn more about the National Federation of the Blind, please visit www.nfb.org. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. About Instructure Instructure set out to build a whole new kind of learning management system by carefully listening to educators, students, and administrators. This user-driven approach to design produced Canvas, a fully-hosted web-based LMS with a level of usability never seen before in a collaborative learning environment. Canvas is used at numerous colleges, universities, and schools across the US, with students in 27 countries. http://www.instructure.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 01:44:42 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:44:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! Message-ID: Hi All! I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for eating/ocasionally mixing things? The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 minute intervals? Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much butter in? Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether the sauce is mixed or not? Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are many different types. Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste the same as browning it on the stove? One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? Thanks so much! Kerri From aadkins7 at verizon.net Thu Sep 30 01:52:17 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:52:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <671CE794CBB648E1A43326CD4495D7BC@AnitaAdkinsPC> sounds like you need to do some experimenting, meaning trying these things out on your own. Wanted to email though to mention that I found a meat thermometer at Independent Living Aids for only around 30 dollars or so, and so it would be cheaper for you. www.independentliving.com Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi All! > > I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to > experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had > some questions however, as I am a bit confused. > > I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I > have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small > toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make > some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also > totally blind, and have no residual vision. > > First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it > mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon > set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for > eating/ocasionally mixing things? > > The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the > microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's > pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read > several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say > different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 > seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 > seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals > until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the > microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and > stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them > runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then > stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 > minute intervals? > > Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table > spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest > spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of > butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just > cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at > all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much > butter in? > > Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. > Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't > want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. > > Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. > Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? > > > Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the > crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you > do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of > grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and > let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes > say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the > crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli > sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I > mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once > the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether > the sauce is mixed or not? > > Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them > in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are > many different types. > > Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 > degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do > this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of > you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste > the same as browning it on the stove? > > > One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, > skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how > to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George > Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old > after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy > that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I > know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic > level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. > > Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get > the $115 one sold at the Independence market? > > I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink > everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing > things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I > can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a > small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I > wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that > mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to > mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you > eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you > also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over > this...just with practice and experimentation? > > Thanks so much! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From kea.anderson at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 02:06:59 2010 From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:06:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Request for advice regarding the GMAT Message-ID: Hi all, Shane Buresh, a long time federationist from Nebraska, has asked me to circulate the following letter. If you have any information or suggestions please contact me either on or off list and I will get the information to Shane. thanks, Karen Anderson Hello folks, My name is Shane Buresh and I am a long time member of the NFB from Nebraska. I work at the Nebraska Commission for the Blind as a rehab teacher. I wanted to write a quick note to your list and draw upon your collective wisdom. I have a student who is seeking to enter a masters program which requires the standardized test called the GMAT. We are not finding very much information about how one can best request accommodations for this test and which accommodations have other blind persons found to be most affective? In addition, if any of you have had experience with this exam how did you prepare for this test and were there any accessible practice materials? While I myself along with many of you likely have experience with the GRE and other more popular standardized tests, my student has really come up empty in his search for advice and accommodation materials. I told him I would submit an information request on his behalf, because you are the most knowledgeable resource on how to be a successful blind student anywhere in the country. Thanks in advance for any ideas you have to share. Cordially yours, Shane Buresh From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 30 02:52:37 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 22:52:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: Message-ID: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Hi Kerri, I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a microwave. If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george forman; make hamburger pattys. About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and don't like them. A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check again! Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. But I doubt its a tablespoon! I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or 15 second intervals. I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this amount, they were overcooked! No you don't need to cover the bowl. About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a tablespoon etc on the wrapper. Ask what a table spoon is. Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get plain ones. I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for myself; they're smaller. You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do barbecue sauce for them? I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for more taste. You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name I can check on line and give you some ideas. Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes and experimenting. I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab center I went to in state. I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and you can figure out what you would like to try. Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend stuff. I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to mind first. If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine does. I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills like pouring and spreading. Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help you. I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you know what all is there. Good luck. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi All! > > I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to > experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had > some questions however, as I am a bit confused. > > I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I > have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small > toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make > some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also > totally blind, and have no residual vision. > > First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it > mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon > set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for > eating/ocasionally mixing things? > > The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the > microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's > pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read > several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say > different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 > seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 > seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals > until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the > microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and > stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them > runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then > stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 > minute intervals? > > Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table > spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest > spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of > butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just > cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at > all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much > butter in? > > Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. > Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't > want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. > > Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. > Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? > > > Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the > crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you > do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of > grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and > let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes > say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the > crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli > sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I > mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once > the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether > the sauce is mixed or not? > > Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them > in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are > many different types. > > Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 > degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do > this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of > you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste > the same as browning it on the stove? > > > One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, > skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how > to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George > Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old > after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy > that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I > know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic > level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. > > Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get > the $115 one sold at the Independence market? > > I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink > everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing > things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I > can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a > small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I > wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that > mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to > mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you > eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you > also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over > this...just with practice and experimentation? > > Thanks so much! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Sep 30 02:56:03 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:56:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi Kerri, > > I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound like a > good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease > You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the lump > of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a microwave. > If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george forman; > make hamburger pattys. > > About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and > don't like them. > A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check > again! > Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. > But I doubt its a tablespoon! > > I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then > check on them and then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or > 15 second intervals. > I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this amount, > they were overcooked! > No you don't need to cover the bowl. > > About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the measurements > are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a tablespoon etc on > the wrapper. > Ask what a table spoon is. > > Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. > > Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including > meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am not > comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. > > For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. > I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. > However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get > plain ones. > > I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless > chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for myself; > they're smaller. > > You can certainly buy a number of sauces or > marinades. Why not do barbecue sauce for them? > I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for more > taste. > You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are near > you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name I can > check on line and give you some ideas. > > Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes and > experimenting. > I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab > center I went to in state. > > I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For the > sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a person > to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and you can > figure out what you would like to try. > Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend stuff. > I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to mind > first. > If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to come > show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine does. I > had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills like > pouring and spreading. > Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. > Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer > cooking classes for blind people > or can send a teacher out to help you. > > I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need to > have someone show you what to do > and maybe go to the store so you know what all is there. > > Good luck. > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" > ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" > > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Hi All! >> >> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to >> experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had >> some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >> >> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I >> have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make >> some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also >> totally blind, and have no residual vision. >> >> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for >> eating/ocasionally mixing things? >> >> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read >> several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then >> stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 >> minute intervals? >> >> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of >> butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just >> cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at >> all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much >> butter in? >> >> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >> >> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >> >> >> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I >> mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once >> the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether >> the sauce is mixed or not? >> >> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are >> many different types. >> >> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of >> you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste >> the same as browning it on the stove? >> >> >> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how >> to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old >> after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy >> that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I >> know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic >> level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. >> >> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get >> the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >> >> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that >> mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to >> mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you >> eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you >> also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over >> this...just with practice and experimentation? >> >> Thanks so much! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 30 03:23:06 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:23:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as chicken breasts and therfore easier to serve. I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken for soup. What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. Ashley----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I can > give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Hi Kerri, >> >> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound like a >> good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the lump >> of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a microwave. >> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >> forman; make hamburger pattys. >> >> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >> don't like them. >> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >> again! >> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >> >> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then >> check on them and then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >> 15 second intervals. >> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this amount, >> they were overcooked! >> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >> >> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the measurements >> are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a tablespoon etc >> on the wrapper. >> Ask what a table spoon is. >> >> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >> >> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am not >> comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >> >> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >> plain ones. >> >> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for myself; >> they're smaller. >> >> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or >> marinades. Why not do barbecue sauce for them? >> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for more >> taste. >> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name I >> can check on line and give you some ideas. >> >> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes and >> experimenting. >> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >> center I went to in state. >> >> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For the >> sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a person >> to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and you can >> figure out what you would like to try. >> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend stuff. >> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >> mind first. >> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to come >> show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine does. >> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills like >> pouring and spreading. >> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >> cooking classes for blind people >> or can send a teacher out to help you. >> >> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need to >> have someone show you what to do >> and maybe go to the store so you know what all is there. >> >> Good luck. >> Ashley >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi All! >>> >>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to >>> experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had >>> some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>> >>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I >>> have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make >>> some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also >>> totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>> >>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for >>> eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>> >>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read >>> several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then >>> stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 >>> minute intervals? >>> >>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of >>> butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just >>> cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at >>> all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much >>> butter in? >>> >>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>> >>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>> >>> >>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I >>> mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once >>> the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether >>> the sauce is mixed or not? >>> >>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are >>> many different types. >>> >>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of >>> you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste >>> the same as browning it on the stove? >>> >>> >>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how >>> to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old >>> after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy >>> that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I >>> know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic >>> level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. >>> >>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get >>> the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>> >>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that >>> mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to >>> mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you >>> eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you >>> also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over >>> this...just with practice and experimentation? >>> >>> Thanks so much! >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > From th404 at comcast.net Thu Sep 30 04:04:12 2010 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:04:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Access to Visual Materials in Mathematics Textbook Message-ID: <210C0C8E63844C6FB7510BE9D4E1F2D8@userbafffee1fc> I happen to have access to the text I need for an Elementary Algebra course at my local community college. There are, however, some things I've noticed. Thanks to my sources, I have the electronic text, which can do fairly well with the narrative portion, but does a poor job with any tables, charts, graphs, and other visual data. Even if there was an atempt to convert the text to audio with any kind of software, the result would be inconsistent. I'm sure this is not an uncommon scenario, so I'd be interested in hearing how others of you out there have tried to cope with this problem. Also, does anyone out there know of software that has been, or is being developed, that will address this problem? Also, if you've used low-tech solutions, I'm interested in hearing what you've used and how to get them. Any thoughts? Thanks. From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 04:24:47 2010 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:24:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Access to Visual Materials in Mathematics Textbook In-Reply-To: <210C0C8E63844C6FB7510BE9D4E1F2D8@userbafffee1fc> References: <210C0C8E63844C6FB7510BE9D4E1F2D8@userbafffee1fc> Message-ID: Hi Tina, I discovered this same problem when I tried getting e-text for a math textbook. I am sure there are probably some high tech solutions to this problem, but I found the best way for me to deal with this situation is by using a reader. Another solution would be to see if your disability office would be able to produce the graphs and charts as tactile raised line drawings. However, I found that a reader worked just fine for me. If the graphs use straight lines, you could also use things like straws, popsicle sticks, or pipe cleaners to produce a tactile representation of the graphs. Hope this helps, Elizabeth > From: th404 at comcast.net > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:04:12 -0700 > Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Access to Visual Materials in Mathematics Textbook > > I happen to have access to the text I need for an Elementary Algebra course at my local community college. There are, however, some things I've noticed. Thanks to my sources, I have the electronic text, which can do fairly well with the narrative portion, but does a poor job with any tables, charts, graphs, and other visual data. Even if there was an atempt to convert the text to audio with any kind of software, the result would be inconsistent. > > I'm sure this is not an uncommon scenario, so I'd be interested in hearing how others of you out there have tried to cope with this problem. Also, does anyone out there know of software that has been, or is being developed, that will address this problem? Also, if you've used low-tech solutions, I'm interested in hearing what you've used and how to get them. Any thoughts? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 07:40:39 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 03:40:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: <671CE794CBB648E1A43326CD4495D7BC@AnitaAdkinsPC> References: <671CE794CBB648E1A43326CD4495D7BC@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: Hi Everyone! Thanks for all the help/suggestions. I now understand that the tablespoon is the measuring spoon. I also understand that cooking is a very experimental thing and there is no exact way of doing things. I will try to be a little more relaxed and just experiment. I did have a couple more questions though, particularly related to making chicken breasts. I am trying to make my grocery list. I am trying to keep it limited to the items I need for the recipes I want to make, and other very necessary items. I am also trying to clean out my freezer. I have one chicken breast left. Can anyone give me any suggestions or recomendations of any premade sauces, seasonings, or marinades I can put on it? I don't like BBQ sauce much. Should I just go with roticery flavoring? My grocery stores are Kroger (also called King Super-savers in other areas), Walmart, and Giant Eagle. Kroger is the closest and would be the easiest to get to. I know someone else (pretty sure it was Jewel) suggested Pineapple chicken, which sounds good but from looking at the recipes it's not as simple as pouring pineapple juice on the chicken, and putting it into the oven or on the grill. I'd like to keep this to a simple premade sauce, flavoring (like roticery), seasoning, or bottled marinade that you just pour on the chicken and cook. I know someone else suggested BBQ sauce, but I don't like BBQ sauce very much. I will be going to the store by myself, and so was planning on just getting help from customer service. I love the idea of browsing and just picking something random that sounds tasty but can you do that with a customer service person? I thought with them you kind of had to have your list and such ready..they don't have much time to "browse" do they? Also, what oven mits do you recomend? I saw some on www.blindmicemart.com that say you can grip things with them and can withstand temperatures of up to 500 degrees. They seem a bit expensive, but do many of you use them or do you just use cheap cloth ones? The cloth ones make it really hard to grip things, so I'd like to find a better pair. Thanks, Kerri On 9/29/10, Anita Adkins wrote: > sounds like you need to do some experimenting, meaning trying these things > out on your own. Wanted to email though to mention that I found a meat > thermometer at Independent Living Aids for only around 30 dollars or so, and > so it would be cheaper for you. www.independentliving.com > Anita > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" > ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" > > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Hi All! >> >> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to >> experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had >> some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >> >> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I >> have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make >> some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also >> totally blind, and have no residual vision. >> >> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for >> eating/ocasionally mixing things? >> >> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read >> several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then >> stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 >> minute intervals? >> >> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of >> butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just >> cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at >> all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much >> butter in? >> >> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >> >> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >> >> >> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I >> mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once >> the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether >> the sauce is mixed or not? >> >> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are >> many different types. >> >> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of >> you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste >> the same as browning it on the stove? >> >> >> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how >> to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old >> after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy >> that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I >> know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic >> level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. >> >> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get >> the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >> >> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that >> mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to >> mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you >> eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you >> also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over >> this...just with practice and experimentation? >> >> Thanks so much! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 08:40:47 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Travel Opportunities for Blind/VI Students Message-ID: <776049.9066.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I thought this would be of interest to some. Travel Opportunities for Blind/VI Students Due November 15 Explore Your World: Raft the Grand Canyon in Summer 2011! Developed in partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer Erik Weihenmayer, the Global Explorers Leading the Way program joins blind, visually impaired, and sighted individuals between the ages of 14 and 21 for the adventure of a lifetime. Leading the Way integrates science, service, leadership, and culture in a 3-phase program that includes pre-travel curriculum, a life-changing travel experience, and a follow-up service leadership project. By focusing on what participants can do, Leading the Way prepares young people to act on the passions they discover. Through their unique stories, the teams spread messages of hope while breaking down barriers between those with and without disabilities. Our 2011 destination is one of the 7 Natural Wonders of the World: Grand Canyon! Rim to River Expedition: Grand Canyon, Arizona July 6-17, 2011 | Price: ~$2,000 (Exact price TBA) We help you fund raise! | Application deadline is Nov. 15 In partnership with Grand Canyon Youth (www.gcyouth.org), this expedition provides a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for students to explore the wonders of the Grand Canyon. We will spend the first 5 days engaging in service and experiencing the vast culture of the area on the South Rim of the Canyon. We will spend the next 5 days on the upper half of the world-renowned Colorado River, where we will raft exhilarating whitewater, float through calm stretches, and journey by foot through slot canyons. Students can apply online at www.globalexplorers.org (Click "Leading the Way") before November 15! Or, nominate a student online and we will follow up with him/her. To request additional info or material preferences (Braille, LP), please contact Danielle Thuringer at danielle at globalexplorers.org or 1-877-627-1425. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller From aadkins7 at verizon.net Thu Sep 30 09:45:36 2010 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:45:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <671CE794CBB648E1A43326CD4495D7BC@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: <67A1F596F0FA4F89B167985E61EBC269@AnitaAdkinsPC> One more thing as a quick note. If you like chicken and dumplings or beef stew. you can get mealkits for your crockpot. There may be others, but I don't remember for sure. It has everything included with it. You add a specific amount of water and milk (the bag tells when to add milk if it is needed), and you're set. With the dumplings, I know you leave the dumpling part in the freezer and just dump the veggies and meat in the crockpot (with a certain amount of water) until about a half hour before its done. Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, but I haven't checked the rest of the email yet. I know you can also get such dinners for the microwave, but I have done some in a skillet on the stove, but not the microwave, and so I am not sure the exact directions. Just FYI. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" ; "blind-cooks" Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 3:40 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Hi Everyone! > > Thanks for all the help/suggestions. I now understand that the > tablespoon is the measuring spoon. > > I also understand that cooking is a very experimental thing and there > is no exact way of doing things. I will try to be a little more > relaxed and just experiment. > > I did have a couple more questions though, particularly related to > making chicken breasts. I am trying to make my grocery list. I am > trying to keep it limited to the items I need for the recipes I want > to make, and other very necessary items. I am also trying to clean out > my freezer. I have one chicken breast left. Can anyone give me any > suggestions or recomendations of any premade sauces, seasonings, or > marinades I can put on it? I don't like BBQ sauce much. Should I just > go with roticery flavoring? My grocery stores are Kroger (also called > King Super-savers in other areas), Walmart, and Giant Eagle. Kroger is > the closest and would be the easiest to get to. I know someone else > (pretty sure it was Jewel) suggested Pineapple chicken, which sounds > good but from looking at the recipes it's not as simple as pouring > pineapple juice on the chicken, and putting it into the oven or on the > grill. I'd like to keep this to a simple premade sauce, flavoring > (like roticery), seasoning, or bottled marinade that you just pour on > the chicken and cook. I know someone else suggested BBQ sauce, but I > don't like BBQ sauce very much. > > I will be going to the store by myself, and so was planning on just > getting help from customer service. I love the idea of browsing and > just picking something random that sounds tasty but can you do that > with a customer service person? I thought with them you kind of had to > have your list and such ready..they don't have much time to "browse" > do they? > > Also, what oven mits do you recomend? I saw some on > www.blindmicemart.com that say you can grip things with them and can > withstand temperatures of up to 500 degrees. They seem a bit > expensive, but do many of you use them or do you just use cheap cloth > ones? The cloth ones make it really hard to grip things, so I'd like > to find a better pair. > > Thanks, > Kerri > > On 9/29/10, Anita Adkins wrote: >> sounds like you need to do some experimenting, meaning trying these >> things >> out on your own. Wanted to email though to mention that I found a meat >> thermometer at Independent Living Aids for only around 30 dollars or so, >> and >> so it would be cheaper for you. www.independentliving.com >> Anita >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi All! >>> >>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted to >>> experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I had >>> some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>> >>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. I >>> have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can make >>> some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I am also >>> totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>> >>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table for >>> eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>> >>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have read >>> several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds then >>> stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring at 1 >>> minute intervals? >>> >>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat of >>> butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I just >>> cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the eggs at >>> all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put too much >>> butter in? >>> >>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>> >>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>> >>> >>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should I >>> mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? Once >>> the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all whether >>> the sauce is mixed or not? >>> >>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There are >>> many different types. >>> >>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any of >>> you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it taste >>> the same as browning it on the stove? >>> >>> >>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know how >>> to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets old >>> after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can buy >>> that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill it? I >>> know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very simple basic >>> level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. >>> >>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just get >>> the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>> >>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does that >>> mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe says to >>> mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a spoon you >>> eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first cook, did you >>> also have these types of problems/questions? How do you get over >>> this...just with practice and experimentation? >>> >>> Thanks so much! >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:48:32 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:48:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Northern Illinois University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel, I am in my first semester as a graduate student at NIU. I would be happy to talk to you off-list and answer any questions you may have. I will say that I am finding the program most excellent. Take care, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:52:05 2010 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:52:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Heightened Senses In-Reply-To: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> References: <96524B1BBA28415BB0B54152B60F451B@Rufus> Message-ID: Hi Joe and all, No, I do not feel that blindness has enhanced my other senses. I will say that I am more in tune with them, but anyone can do this, it's not that blindness makes this happen. When people say things like that, I will usually say as much. Take care, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 15:42:42 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:42:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Northern Illinois University In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Liz, Thank you for writing to me! I read about NIU on-line, and it peaked my interest. So, I have a lot of questions. I'll start with questions about the campus in specific, if you don't mind? I don't want to overwhelm you with too many questions. I'll also ask a few questions about your studies, to get an idea of your perspective? 1. What program are you studying in? In what department? 2. Are you blind? If you don't mind sharing, what is your visual acuity? 3. Do you use a white cane or a guide dog for mobility? 4. What accommodations do you use at the university, and how do the professors react to your presence (do they talk to you prior to the beginning of classes starting to get to know your needs, and try to accommodate you, or do the majority put most of the work on DSS?) 5. Speaking of DSS, what is the Disability Services at NIU like? Are they helpful or something you try to go to only on necessity? 6. What is the overall accessibility like, from a blind perspective? Are there difficult obstacles? Are the buildings easy or hard to orient to? How long did it take you to get used to the campus for your first semester? 7. What is the campus like overall, mobility wise? Are there many stairs with ramps out of the way? Do buildings have elevators available and placed in useful locations? 8. How much walking do you do to get from class to class during the day? Are the buildings far apart? 9. What do you like the most about the university? What do you like the least? 10. Aret here any other details about the university you think are important tht I haven't touched on? I hope you don't find my questions overwhelming, prying, or irritating. I'm definitely going to have to plan a trip there as I get to know the university, but I want to know details to see if it's right for me, first. The website just doesn't give enough details, and asking for information from universities never works, since it's all in print and doesn't scan well...I've only had one college ever send me a CD with information instead of print materials. Thank you again fro writing to me, and I hope to hear back from you when you have time. How are mid-terms going? I hope all is going well, and y ou're all ready for fall break! On 9/30/10, Liz Bottner wrote: > Hi Jewel, > > I am in my first semester as a graduate student at NIU. I would be happy to > talk to you off-list and answer any questions you may have. I will say that > I am finding the program most excellent. > > Take care, > > Liz > > email: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 18:48:31 2010 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:48:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions about embossers Message-ID: Hi everyone. I have a couple of questions. I am in the process of perchasing a lot of technology. I am going to buy the lime and goodfeel music software, duxbury, and an embosser. I am working with the assistive technology specialist at the university to decide which embosser to buy. There are really a lot of them. We were thinking about the Index Basic D or the Romio Attache. We want one that is small enough to be a personal embosser. Here are a few of the questions we came up with in regards to the embossers. 1. What company should we buy from? We are looking for a company with good customer service. 2. Have there been any major problems with either of these embossers? 3, What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages of each? 4. If you were given the choice, which embosser would you buy and why? I would also want something that works well with music. Of course, if you have any other recommendations, please let me know. Also, what kind of scanner would you recommend? I want something that is easy to use and quick. Thanks. -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Sep 30 18:56:32 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:56:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions about embossers References: Message-ID: I do not have answers to most of these questions, but I do have an answer to one. I do not think that any embosser will or won't work with music. As long as you have the software for Braille music, and the embosser is compatible with that software, you are fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions about embossers > Hi everyone. > > I have a couple of questions. I am in the process of perchasing a lot > of technology. I am going to buy the lime and goodfeel music > software, duxbury, and an embosser. I am working with the assistive > technology specialist at the university to decide which embosser to > buy. There are really a lot of them. We were thinking about the > Index Basic D or the Romio Attache. We want one that is small enough > to be a personal embosser. Here are a few of the questions we came up > with in regards to the embossers. > > 1. What company should we buy from? We are looking for a company with > good customer service. > 2. Have there been any major problems with either of these embossers? > 3, What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages of each? > 4. If you were given the choice, which embosser would you buy and why? > > I would also want something that works well with music. Of course, if > you have any other recommendations, please let me know. Also, what > kind of scanner would you recommend? I want something that is easy to > use and quick. Thanks. > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 30 21:52:07 2010 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:52:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as chicken breasts and therfore easier to serve. I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken for soup. What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. Ashley----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I > can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Hi Kerri, >> >> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a microwave. >> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >> forman; make hamburger pattys. >> >> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >> don't like them. >> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >> again! >> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >> >> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >> 15 second intervals. >> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >> amount, they were overcooked! >> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >> >> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >> Ask what a table spoon is. >> >> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >> >> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >> >> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >> plain ones. >> >> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >> myself; they're smaller. >> >> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >> barbecue sauce for them? >> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >> more taste. >> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >> >> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >> and experimenting. >> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >> center I went to in state. >> >> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >> you can figure out what you would like to try. >> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend stuff. >> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >> mind first. >> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine does. >> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >> like pouring and spreading. >> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >> you. >> >> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >> know what all is there. >> >> Good luck. >> Ashley >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi All! >>> >>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>> >>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>> >>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>> >>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>> at 1 minute intervals? >>> >>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>> too much butter in? >>> >>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>> >>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>> >>> >>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>> >>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>> are many different types. >>> >>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>> >>> >>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for something simple. >>> >>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>> >>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>> >>> Thanks so much! >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>> 40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 22:56:22 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 16:56:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi all, There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or two ingredients. Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. Arielle On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM > To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as chicken > breasts and therfore easier to serve. > > I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken for > soup. > What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the > chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. > > > Ashley----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! > > >> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Hi Kerri, >>> >>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a > microwave. >>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>> >>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>> don't like them. >>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>> again! >>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>> >>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>> 15 second intervals. >>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>> amount, they were overcooked! >>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>> >>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>> >>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>> >>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >>> >>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>> plain ones. >>> >>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>> myself; they're smaller. >>> >>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>> barbecue sauce for them? >>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>> more taste. >>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>> >>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>> and experimenting. >>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>> center I went to in state. >>> >>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend stuff. > >>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>> mind first. >>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine > does. >>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>> like pouring and spreading. >>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>> you. >>> >>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>> know what all is there. >>> >>> Good luck. >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Hi All! >>>> >>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>> >>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>> >>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>> >>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>> >>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>> too much butter in? >>>> >>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>> >>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>> >>>> >>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>> >>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>> are many different types. >>>> >>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>> >>>> >>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for something > simple. >>>> >>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>> >>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much! >>>> Kerri >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>> 40earthlink.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>> wavecable.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From jp100 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 30 23:06:39 2010 From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 16:06:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone know? Message-ID: <007701cb60f4$249655f0$6dc301d0$@net> Howdy Facebook users, Does anyone know if on Facebook, one can write something to only a select group of people without having to post it as an event? For instance, I want to let my friends from my home town know that I'll be going to visit but don't need to let all of my other friends know so as not to clutter up things on their end. I thought of doing it as an event, but that's probably not the way to go. The group is large enough. Any ideas? Jim From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 23:31:11 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:31:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone know? In-Reply-To: <007701cb60f4$249655f0$6dc301d0$@net> References: <007701cb60f4$249655f0$6dc301d0$@net> Message-ID: Hi, Jim, Do you know about the feature of sending and receiving messages on Facebook? It basically behaves like email, and you can select as many people as you want as message recipients. You can access the feature by selecting the link Inbox on your home page. Hope that helps! Katie On 9/30/10, Jim wrote: > Howdy Facebook users, > > > > Does anyone know if on Facebook, one can write something to only a select > group of people without having to post it as an event? > > For instance, I want to let my friends from my home town know that I'll be > going to visit but don't need to let all of my other friends know so as not > to clutter up things on their end. > > I thought of doing it as an event, but that's probably not the way to go. > The group is large enough. > > > > Any ideas? > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 23:55:29 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:55:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! In-Reply-To: References: <255B4EA4AEE44EE39FE8B9333C637F11@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi, Kerry and all, I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate all the cooking tips from everyone! I'm a beginner in cooking too so this is very helpful to me. One question out of curiosity: I use a toaster oven and a microwave all the time but don't have a George Forman Grill. Is it similar to an oven? Does it accomplish the same things? In what situations would you use a grill rather than an oven? Thanks! Katie On 9/30/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > There are tons of bottled or packaged marinades you can get for > chicken. Most customer service clerks I've worked with don't mind > doing a little browsing, and if you say "I'm looking for a chicken > marinade" that's specific enough that they should be able to find the > aisle/section with all the premade marinades. Another quick chicken > product I really like is "Shake-n-Bake" which is basically just > coating that you pour into a ziplock bag, shake the chicken breast in > it, and then bake in the oven (toaster oven will work fine). You can > get lots of different flavors-I especially like the hot and spicy. > > You can also get buffalo/hot sauce, teriyaki sauce, BBQ (as someone > else mentioned), salad dressing, etc. There's really a limitless > number of ways to season chicken and many of these only require one or > two ingredients. > > Finally, Kroger/King Soopers has some preseasoned chicken breasts you > can get that are all ready to be popped in the grill/oven. Look for > "marinated chicken brests" in the meat section. > > Arielle > > On 9/30/10, Jacob Struiksma wrote: >> I grill chicken on my gorge Forman grill all the time. >> From >> Jacob Struiksma >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:23 PM >> To: Nicole B. Torcolini; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> Tenderloins are user friendly; they're thin and are not as bulky as >> chicken >> breasts and therfore easier to serve. >> >> I've only seen chicken cooked in the oven except for sliced up chicken for >> soup. >> What chicken dishes are cooked on the stove? Do you have to turn the >> chicken over? I would think not with a tenderloin. >> >> >> Ashley----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "Ashley Bramlett" ; "National Association >> of >> Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >> >> >>> Ditto on the tender loins. If you ever decide to cook on the stove, I >>> can give you some simple recipes that use the tender loins. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 7:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>> >>> >>>> Hi Kerri, >>>> >>>> I've never heard of browning beef in the microwave. Doesn't sound >>>> like a good idea. Even with 93 percent lean meat it generates grease >>>> You need it to sizzle and brown in a skillet! You need to break the >>>> lump of meat up and stir while browning! You cannot do this in a >> microwave. >>>> If you can't use the stove, then stick to doing beef on the george >>>> forman; make hamburger pattys. >>>> >>>> About eggs, it depends on the microwave. I tried microwaved eggs and >>>> don't like them. >>>> A table spoon of water or milk? Doesn't sound accurate to me. Check >>>> again! >>>> Yes you can add milk or water but I'm not sure as I've not measured it. >>>> But I doubt its a tablespoon! >>>> >>>> I think you should heat the eggs a minute and then check on them and >>>> then stir, and put them in a little longer, maybe 10 or >>>> 15 second intervals. >>>> I don't think you will need two minutes. When I cooked them this >>>> amount, they were overcooked! >>>> No you don't need to cover the bowl. >>>> >>>> About butter its in a stick. You'll have to ask what the >>>> measurements are. The butter stick has markings to indicate what is a >>>> tablespoon etc on the wrapper. >>>> Ask what a table spoon is. >>>> >>>> Generally there are eight tablespoons in a stick of butter. >>>> >>>> Sound like we have the same taste buds. I like brown beef including >>>> meatballs and hamburger and ground beef in other recipies. But I am >>>> not comfortable browing beef myself because I don't know when its done. >>>> >>>> For the bread crumbs follow the recipie. >>>> I am no expert but I doubt it would matter what type of bread crumbs. >>>> However some bread crumbs are seasoned, so if you don't want that get >>>> plain ones. >>>> >>>> I also really like chicken, and like you get the boneless skinless >>>> chicken breasts; actually I get the tenderloins if cooking for >>>> myself; they're smaller. >>>> >>>> You can certainly buy a number of sauces or marinades. Why not do >>>> barbecue sauce for them? >>>> I also heard you can cover the chicken in cream of mushroom soup for >>>> more taste. >>>> You can ask at your store what is available. What grocery stores are >>>> near you? If they're the same as my area or if I know the store name >>>> I can check on line and give you some ideas. >>>> >>>> Some of this is about what is in your grocery store, personal tastes >>>> and experimenting. >>>> I have hardly cooked either; I'm novice. I learned some at the rehab >>>> center I went to in state. >>>> >>>> I really think you should ask a friend some of these questions. For >>>> the sauces question and the butter question its as simple as asking a >>>> person to read the package and browse the grocery store with you and >>>> you can figure out what you would like to try. >>>> Each store is different so without the names its hard to recommend >>>> stuff. >> >>>> I use barbecue sauce mostly to season chicken so that is what came to >>>> mind first. >>>> If you need some hands on help why can't you get a rehab teacher to >>>> come show you some things? Doesn't your state agency have them? Mine >> does. >>>> I had one or two as a teen and she taught me some real basic skills >>>> like pouring and spreading. >>>> Rehab teachers teach you to cook and other household activities. >>>> Is there a lighthouse for the blind near you? Many lighthouses offer >>>> cooking classes for blind people or can send a teacher out to help >>>> you. >>>> >>>> I think its great you asked questions but to be real helpful you need >>>> to have someone show you what to do and maybe go to the store so you >>>> know what all is there. >>>> >>>> Good luck. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list" ; "Blind Talk Mailing List" >>>> ; "NFB of West Virginia Discussion List" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] some very beginner, basic cooking questions! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi All! >>>>> >>>>> I am very basic at cooking as I haven't been taught much but wanted >>>>> to experiment and try to make a couple of simple-sounding recipes. I >>>>> had some questions however, as I am a bit confused. >>>>> >>>>> I should first begin by saying I can not use the stove at this time. >>>>> I have a crockpot, a George Foreman Grill, a microwave, and a small >>>>> toaster oven. However, even with these limitations, I feel I can >>>>> make some things. I won't clutter this email with the reasoning. I >>>>> am also totally blind, and have no residual vision. >>>>> >>>>> First, when a recipe calls for a table spoon of something, does it >>>>> mean the measuring spoon (the biggest spoon in the measuring spoon >>>>> set) or does it mean one of those larger spoons used at the table >>>>> for eating/ocasionally mixing things? >>>>> >>>>> The first recipe I'd like to try making is scrambled eggs in the >>>>> microwave. Yes, it can be done, and from the reviews I've read it's >>>>> pretty tasty, easy and quick. I am confused though because I have >>>>> read several recipes for microwave scrambled eggs and they all say >>>>> different things. Some say put the eggs in the microwave for 30 >>>>> seconds, then mix with a fork/whisk, then put it in for another 10 >>>>> seconds, mix again, then keep putting it in for 10 second intervals >>>>> until the eggs are done. Others however say to put the eggs in the >>>>> microwave for 2 minutes, and take the eggs out after one minute and >>>>> stir. I like my eggs very thick, and well done; I don't like them >>>>> runny. I don't want to overcook the eggs...should I do 30 seconds >>>>> then stir at 10 second intervals or put it in for 2 minutes stirring >>>>> at 1 minute intervals? >>>>> >>>>> Also, I like a lot of butter in my eggs. Some recipes say a table >>>>> spoon, others say 2 teaspoons (I know the teaspoon is the littlest >>>>> spoon so that doesn't sound like much), and others say a small pat >>>>> of butter. Do I need to literally measure out a tablespoon or can I >>>>> just cut a square pat of butter from the stick? Will it hurt the >>>>> eggs at all or affect the taste drastically if I accidentally put >>>>> too much butter in? >>>>> >>>>> Some recipes say to put a tablespoon of water or milk into the eggs. >>>>> Is this a good idea or will it make them more liquidy/runny? I don't >>>>> want my eggs to taste rubbery but I don't like them liquidy either. >>>>> >>>>> Some recipes also say to lightly cover the bowl with the eggs in it. >>>>> Does this have to be done? Couldn't I just fix the eggs uncovered? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Another recipe I'd like to try is grape jelly meatballs in the >>>>> crockpot/slow cooker. These may sound gross, but essentially all you >>>>> do is take frozen meatballs (you can also make your own), a jar of >>>>> grape jelly, and a jar of chilli sauce, put it in the crockpot, and >>>>> let it go. I've been told they are very good. However, some recipes >>>>> say to dump the chilli sauce, meatballs, and grape jelly in the >>>>> crockpot and let it go, while others say the grape jelly and chilli >>>>> sauce needs to be mixed well before putting the meatballs in. Should >>>>> I mix the chilli sauce, and grape jelly or just throw it all in? >>>>> Once the meatballs finish cooking, Does it affect the taste at all >>>>> whether the sauce is mixed or not? >>>>> >>>>> Speaking of meatballs, sometime I would also like to try baking them >>>>> in the oven. Does it matter which type of breadcrumbs I use? There >>>>> are many different types. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I read that browning ground beef is just heating it to a 160 >>>>> degree temperature so the bacteria are killed off. You can either do >>>>> this in the microwave or the conventional way on a stove. Have any >>>>> of you ground beef in the microwave and if done properly does it >>>>> taste the same as browning it on the stove? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> One thing I really like is chicken. I usually get the boneless, >>>>> skinless frozen chicken breasts. Currently, the only thing I know >>>>> how to do with them is to put hot sauce on one, put it on the George >>>>> Foreman grill, and cook it for 7 or so minutes. However, this gets >>>>> old after a while. Is there any simple marinades or anything I can >>>>> buy that I can lather on the chicken, and either bake it or grill >>>>> it? I know marinades can be made from scratch but I'm at a very >>>>> simple basic level of cooking right now so am just looking for >>>>> something >> simple. >>>>> >>>>> Is it a good idea to get a talking meat thermometer? Should I just >>>>> get the $115 one sold at the Independence market? >>>>> >>>>> I am a very literal, over-analytical person who tends to overthink >>>>> everything. When I look at recipes, and they all say differing >>>>> things, I get confused. Also, when a recipe says to use a bowl, I >>>>> can't figure out whether it means a big bowl, a medium-size bowl, a >>>>> small bowl, or a mixing bowl. When it says combine something I >>>>> wonder...does that mean to just put the items in the bowl or does >>>>> that mean throw the items in the bowl, and mix them? When a recipe >>>>> says to mix something, I wonder... with a big mixing spoon, with a >>>>> spoon you eat with, a fork, or a whisk. When beginning to first >>>>> cook, did you also have these types of problems/questions? How do >>>>> you get over this...just with practice and experimentation? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much! >>>>> Kerri >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb% >>>>> 40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >>>> wavecable.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >