From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 00:26:17 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:26:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. In-Reply-To: <39FA707880C44590B2E3BC0ABA9C1DCC@AnjelinaPC> References: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> <3D4635A01E764A8B92A788D15DB1ADA4@OwnerPC> <39FA707880C44590B2E3BC0ABA9C1DCC@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: Ashley, I hope I didn't come off as mocking you at all...I was being sarcastic, thinking about lots of the people I know...that was in no way meant to be a personal attack. Thanks, Kirt On 3/31/11, Anjelina wrote: > Ashley, > I use Kurzweil to scan any printed documents and receive the same visual > feedback as I would if the document were emailed. This is just my opinion: I > always take any printed material that's passed out in class even if the > professor says it'll be emailed to me. I feel it's my responsibility to use > the technology I have to make the class accessible. For me depending on the > professor is the second alternative. > We fortunately have sites such as Blackboard and D2l which have the > documents ready to download but it's helpful to not forget the alternative > techniques. Using the slate and stylus, scanning, and readers are just a few > reliable tools to have at the ready. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Hey Kirt, > I agree. Its extra work and effort but I will resort to it if needed. > I feel that that electronic handouts give me more equal access. I can read > the format like bold and italics then. Besides some handouts are tables and > will not scan. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Shawn, > your suggestion requires work and extra effort. Anything requiring > work and extra effort is a thing not worth doing. Therefore, by the > logic which lots of blind people follow, your idea simply isn't > practical. :) > Best, > Kirt > > On 3/31/11, Sean Whalen wrote: >> Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me what >> is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have the >> equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long books >> could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I did >> through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how horrible >> it >> is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could have been >> scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base here, but we >> have >> to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves if we want to >> succeed, >> even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it isn't. Life isn't always >> fair, and the right thing isn't always the thing done. Not saying that >> it's >> not something to strive for, but while we're striving, we'd better be >> prepared to deal with the world as it actually exists. >> >> >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 01:34:49 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:34:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. In-Reply-To: <39FA707880C44590B2E3BC0ABA9C1DCC@AnjelinaPC> References: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com><3D4635A01E764A8B92A788D15DB1ADA4@OwnerPC> <39FA707880C44590B2E3BC0ABA9C1DCC@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: <805E3E3ECFD04303B8006D7DC9C4CE67@OwnerPC> I always take any printed material as well. But no I don't agree scanning gives you the same formatting and features a computer emailed handout does. -----Original Message----- From: Anjelina Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. Ashley, I use Kurzweil to scan any printed documents and receive the same visual feedback as I would if the document were emailed. This is just my opinion: I always take any printed material that's passed out in class even if the professor says it'll be emailed to me. I feel it's my responsibility to use the technology I have to make the class accessible. For me depending on the professor is the second alternative. We fortunately have sites such as Blackboard and D2l which have the documents ready to download but it's helpful to not forget the alternative techniques. Using the slate and stylus, scanning, and readers are just a few reliable tools to have at the ready. -----Original Message----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. Hey Kirt, I agree. Its extra work and effort but I will resort to it if needed. I feel that that electronic handouts give me more equal access. I can read the format like bold and italics then. Besides some handouts are tables and will not scan. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. Shawn, your suggestion requires work and extra effort. Anything requiring work and extra effort is a thing not worth doing. Therefore, by the logic which lots of blind people follow, your idea simply isn't practical. :) Best, Kirt On 3/31/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me what > is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have the > equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long books > could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I did > through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how horrible > it > is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could have been > scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base here, but we > have > to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves if we want to > succeed, > even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it isn't. Life isn't always > fair, and the right thing isn't always the thing done. Not saying that > it's > not something to strive for, but while we're striving, we'd better be > prepared to deal with the world as it actually exists. > > > > Sean > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com Fri Apr 1 02:41:05 2011 From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 2:41:05 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. In-Reply-To: <805E3E3ECFD04303B8006D7DC9C4CE67@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <20110401024105.15UEE.2414.root@cdptpa-web13-z01> It sounds to me like a case of lazy-itis. If you use the correct software, it provides the same formatting as the printed page. Kurzweil or Openbook are far from being leaders in this market. Neither one is a great package for this function. Furthermore, the other programs are cheaper. I use ReadIris pro. Electronic copies are nice but not necessary. I agree fully with Anjelina. Derrick ---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I always take any printed material as well. But no I don't agree scanning > gives you the same formatting and features a computer emailed handout does. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anjelina > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Ashley, > I use Kurzweil to scan any printed documents and receive the same visual > feedback as I would if the document were emailed. This is just my opinion: I > always take any printed material that's passed out in class even if the > professor says it'll be emailed to me. I feel it's my responsibility to use > the technology I have to make the class accessible. For me depending on the > professor is the second alternative. > We fortunately have sites such as Blackboard and D2l which have the > documents ready to download but it's helpful to not forget the alternative > techniques. Using the slate and stylus, scanning, and readers are just a few > reliable tools to have at the ready. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Hey Kirt, > I agree. Its extra work and effort but I will resort to it if needed. > I feel that that electronic handouts give me more equal access. I can read > the format like bold and italics then. Besides some handouts are tables and > will not scan. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Shawn, > your suggestion requires work and extra effort. Anything requiring > work and extra effort is a thing not worth doing. Therefore, by the > logic which lots of blind people follow, your idea simply isn't > practical. :) > Best, > Kirt > > On 3/31/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > > Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me what > > is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have the > > equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long books > > could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I did > > through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how horrible > > it > > is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could have been > > scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base here, but we > > have > > to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves if we want to > > succeed, > > even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it isn't. Life isn't always > > fair, and the right thing isn't always the thing done. Not saying that > > it's > > not something to strive for, but while we're striving, we'd better be > > prepared to deal with the world as it actually exists. > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com Fri Apr 1 02:43:14 2011 From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 2:43:14 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. Message-ID: <20110401024314.2II8V.2434.root@cdptpa-web13-z01> It sounds to me like a case of lazy-itis. If you use the correct software, it provides the same formatting as the printed page. Kurzweil or Openbook are far from being leaders in this market. Neither one is a great package for this function. Furthermore, the other programs are cheaper. I use ReadIris pro. Electronic copies are nice but not necessary. I agree fully with Anjelina. Derrick ---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I always take any printed material as well. But no I don't agree scanning > gives you the same formatting and features a computer emailed handout does. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anjelina > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Ashley, > I use Kurzweil to scan any printed documents and receive the same visual > feedback as I would if the document were emailed. This is just my opinion: I > always take any printed material that's passed out in class even if the > professor says it'll be emailed to me. I feel it's my responsibility to use > the technology I have to make the class accessible. For me depending on the > professor is the second alternative. > We fortunately have sites such as Blackboard and D2l which have the > documents ready to download but it's helpful to not forget the alternative > techniques. Using the slate and stylus, scanning, and readers are just a few > reliable tools to have at the ready. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Hey Kirt, > I agree. Its extra work and effort but I will resort to it if needed. > I feel that that electronic handouts give me more equal access. I can read > the format like bold and italics then. Besides some handouts are tables and > will not scan. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > > Shawn, > your suggestion requires work and extra effort. Anything requiring > work and extra effort is a thing not worth doing. Therefore, by the > logic which lots of blind people follow, your idea simply isn't > practical. :) > Best, > Kirt > > On 3/31/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > > Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me what > > is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have the > > equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long books > > could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I did > > through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how horrible > > it > > is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could have been > > scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base here, but we > > have > > to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves if we want to > > succeed, > > even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it isn't. Life isn't always > > fair, and the right thing isn't always the thing done. Not saying that > > it's > > not something to strive for, but while we're striving, we'd better be > > prepared to deal with the world as it actually exists. > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 13:39:42 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:39:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics Message-ID: I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and utilized by all. Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's time to move on. In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks,  and not having to be so reliant on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: CourseSmart and AMAC.  This has allowed equal access, independence, and a true forward studying experience.  It's never been possible for us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an innovative eTextBook service. * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off eTextBooks * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, handouts, assignments, etc http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low vision, learning disabled). http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will lift stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not content. This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible course material. Thanks, Kevin From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Apr 1 18:21:02 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:21:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All my blogs are based on my real life experiences. Though I do write fiction as well, I am predominantly a creative nonfiction writer, and I was hired to blog about my experiences as, and of, a diabetic and blind person. To be fair, we were very young, 8 or 9, and no one really meant for me to die. As kids do, it just worked out that the first two letters in diabetic, D and I, sound like the word die which seemed funny to them at the time-- not to lessen how it made me feel. And I too certainly joined in as a group when kids found it so witty to make fun. It is an unfortunate thing kids do. I am not calling anyone out trying to make a point about bullying-- though it certainly is an important issue. I was friends with these people, and we played together all the time, had weekend sleep overs and went to each others birthday parties. The point of the blog was not so much focused on the bullying, but on how I felt isolated from my peers because of my diabetes. It was not easy "being different" since I did certain things different due to my diabetes, especially back then. Things have changed now in terms of diabetes though. Bridgit Message: 6 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:13:24 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog Message-ID: <09758C1B91B744AA96EBF66B4C6D4CCB at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I saw the blog. I hope this didn't really happen. No one should chant about dying or diabetes. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 19:06:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:06:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9EC4FEC894BB4EE5B6DE008A823EBF8C@OwnerPC> Hi, So the Bridget in the story is actually yourself and are mostly true. Creative nonfiction? I haven't seen many writers do that. Nonfiction usually isn't creative. -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:21 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog All my blogs are based on my real life experiences. Though I do write fiction as well, I am predominantly a creative nonfiction writer, and I was hired to blog about my experiences as, and of, a diabetic and blind person. To be fair, we were very young, 8 or 9, and no one really meant for me to die. As kids do, it just worked out that the first two letters in diabetic, D and I, sound like the word die which seemed funny to them at the time-- not to lessen how it made me feel. And I too certainly joined in as a group when kids found it so witty to make fun. It is an unfortunate thing kids do. I am not calling anyone out trying to make a point about bullying-- though it certainly is an important issue. I was friends with these people, and we played together all the time, had weekend sleep overs and went to each others birthday parties. The point of the blog was not so much focused on the bullying, but on how I felt isolated from my peers because of my diabetes. It was not easy "being different" since I did certain things different due to my diabetes, especially back then. Things have changed now in terms of diabetes though. Bridgit Message: 6 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:13:24 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog Message-ID: <09758C1B91B744AA96EBF66B4C6D4CCB at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I saw the blog. I hope this didn't really happen. No one should chant about dying or diabetes. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Apr 1 19:36:31 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:36:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, searching for material and staying current with new options for accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are doing their own research and work. To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or PP presentations. Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not follow along with a lecture and PP slides. I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. And as a creative writing major taking studios based around workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and other formatting issues. It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you can on your own. I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures or discussions. I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for us. Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will make you a much happier student. If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are in the workforce. *smile* Bridgit Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 From: "Sean Whalen" To: Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it actually exists. Sean From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 19:49:36 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:49:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: <09758C1B91B744AA96EBF66B4C6D4CCB@OwnerPC> References: <09758C1B91B744AA96EBF66B4C6D4CCB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Bridget, This is powerful stuff. I'm going back and reading some of your other posts and this is really gripping...I think you just got yourself another weekly reader. On 3/31/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I saw the blog. I hope this didn't really happen. No one should chant about > dying or diabetes. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:43 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog > > Hello, > > Please check out my latest blog at: > > http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/03/31/disease-plus-kids-can-equal > -cruelty/ > > Bridgit P > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 20:10:08 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:10:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? Arielle On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: > I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student > or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and > utilized by all. > > Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and > worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from > publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's > time to move on. > > In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not > using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks,  and not having to be so reliant > on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: > CourseSmart and AMAC.  This has allowed equal access, independence, > and a true forward studying experience.  It's never been possible for > us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an > innovative eTextBook service. > > * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off > eTextBooks > * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, > and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, > handouts, assignments, etc > > http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental > service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes > students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low > vision, learning disabled). > > http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will > work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and > remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will lift > stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not > content. > > This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in > post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible > course material. > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 20:19:13 2011 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:19:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] PR and Visual Elements Message-ID: Hi everyone, I am a communication major with a concentration in public relations. While PR is foremost a writing-intensive field, there is also a design / aesthetics portion of the work that I cannot ignore. for example, pr practitioners must integrate color, pictures, and design in brochures, flyers and newsletters. Press releases and news leads go far, but not far enough. If anyone is studying PR, marketing or advertisement, how have you handled the visual and design portions of the work? I have some internship interviews with some marketing and PR firms soon, and I want to be prepared and ready to answer questions as needed. Additionally, I would be interested in learning about programs or skills you have learned that have helped you in the field. Any tips or advice anyone can offer would be helpful. Brice -- Brice Smith North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 20:22:35 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:22:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> Hi all, I do what I can to keep up. You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables and sometimes on colored paper. I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to have a level playing field? I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an issue. Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so many classes he doesn't respond to emails. I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed upon accomodation is not unreasonable. I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I was in a journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in groups. I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this was not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me in class. So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of time I wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear us. Then we came back and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us and we can compete equally then. Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in accessible format? Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need to be accessible and other course content and then do not support something like accessible handouts. Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, and have a reader read you inaccessible content. Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, searching for material and staying current with new options for accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are doing their own research and work. To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or PP presentations. Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not follow along with a lecture and PP slides. I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. And as a creative writing major taking studios based around workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and other formatting issues. It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you can on your own. I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures or discussions. I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for us. Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will make you a much happier student. If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are in the workforce. *smile* Bridgit Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 From: "Sean Whalen" To: Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it actually exists. Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 20:29:07 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:29:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader Message-ID: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com> Hi all: Just wondering, I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the FS Perl reader. Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are in handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not tied to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands cellphones and I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) Which one is better? And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? Also, are there any student discounts? Thanks, Jorge From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 20:34:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:34:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader In-Reply-To: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com> References: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com> Message-ID: <530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> Hi, You said tied to. Tied to what? I heard Perl isn't very portable because you have to use a computer and openbook with it. Since the KNFB reader is a phone and very light, that sounds most portable. I haven't used either of these but I have seen the KNFB Reader. It looked fast and reliable. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader Hi all: Just wondering, I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the FS Perl reader. Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are in handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not tied to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands cellphones and I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) Which one is better? And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? Also, are there any student discounts? Thanks, Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 20:45:36 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:45:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader In-Reply-To: <530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> References: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com> <530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Well, what I meant was I don't want it to come with a cellphone if possible. I don't wanna pay extra to have a cellphone that can scan since I won't utilize the cellphone part --yet I need something that is portable. Jorge On Apr 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, wrote: > Hi, > You said tied to. Tied to what? > I heard Perl isn't very portable because you have to use a computer and openbook with it. > Since the KNFB reader is a phone and very light, that sounds most portable. > I haven't used either of these but I have seen the KNFB Reader. It looked fast and reliable. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader > > Hi all: > > Just wondering, > I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the FS Perl reader. > > Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? > > I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are in handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not tied to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands cellphones and I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) > > Which one is better? > > And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? > > Also, are there any student discounts? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 20:51:02 2011 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:51:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> References: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: In Ashley's defense, she did say she would scan the material in her original message. I don't think anyone has recently said they are completely unwilling to go the extra step in class, which makes me question why everyone is jumping on the scan your documents bandwagon. I don't use disability services for documents and I've hand-scanned my own documents when necessary. The key here is that students need to be required to do whatever it takes to be successful or keep up. This may include scanning your own stuff if that's the only way you can compete with your classmates and follow along in class. But if someone has a copy of what you need somewhere, you should advocate for yourself and get it. Why should Ashley spend time scanning papers when a copy in word or pdf already exists? Why should Ashley take extra time out of her already busy schedule to create access to something that is already in an accessible format? I recently wanted to read a book from a 20-something traveler who spent time backpacking around Latin America with no money. I couldn't find the book anywhere in an electronic format, and trust me, "anywhere" includes everywhere. Did I buy the book and scan it myself? Not at all. I Facebooked the author and asked him if he could send me the pdf. He was glad to send a copy, and we e-mailed back and forth for a while. Advocating for yourself and asking a professor to quickly send you a pdf of a handout that already exists in an electronic format isn't being lazy at all. It's being smart. Brice On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > I do what I can to keep up. > You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that > scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables and > sometimes on colored paper. > > I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to have a > level playing field? > I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but > I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. > Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on > lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an issue. > Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so > many classes he doesn't respond to emails. > > I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed upon > accomodation is not unreasonable. > I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I was in a > journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in groups. > I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this was > not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me > in class. > So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of time I > wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. > We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear us. > Then we came back > and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us and we can > compete equally then. > Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in > accessible format? > > Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. > You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need to > be accessible and other course content and then do not support something > like accessible handouts. > Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, and > have a reader read you inaccessible content. > Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. > > First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling > our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be > responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, > searching for material and staying current with new options for > accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, > there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is > generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. > > Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple > classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which > involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to > publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are > doing their own research and work. > > To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what > they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in > time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital > information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either > in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you > have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will > still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or > PP presentations. > > Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how > often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? > And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I > do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it > is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, > and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not > the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* > > And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone > has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions > especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of > communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just > ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, > and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. > > I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your > own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I > took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never > encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not > follow along with a lecture and PP slides. > > I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take > print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. > And as a creative writing major taking studios based around > workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan > student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic > copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I > needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a > situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the > material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and > other formatting issues. > > It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful > in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have > what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is > it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for > sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and > anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, > that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to > everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it > isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the > middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you > can on your own. > > I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to > keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires > students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. > Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course > material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. > Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been > seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. > > I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do > it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way > they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class > are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes > requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent > electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures > or discussions. > > I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting > on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it > perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. > > As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves > and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more > work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for > us. > > Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and > there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services > essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many > students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We > have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or > understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply > and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your > specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. > > Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to > rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is > life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or > communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. > Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will > make you a much happier student. > > If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are > in the workforce. *smile* > > Bridgit > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 > From: "Sean Whalen" > To: > Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me > what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have > the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long > books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I > did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how > horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could > have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base > here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves > if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it > isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the > thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while > we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it > actually exists. > > > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > -- Brice Smith North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 20:58:11 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:58:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader In-Reply-To: References: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com><530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Oh. Then you can have the KNFB reader; you do not have to hook up phone service unless you want it. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader Well, what I meant was I don't want it to come with a cellphone if possible. I don't wanna pay extra to have a cellphone that can scan since I won't utilize the cellphone part --yet I need something that is portable. Jorge On Apr 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, wrote: > Hi, > You said tied to. Tied to what? > I heard Perl isn't very portable because you have to use a computer and > openbook with it. > Since the KNFB reader is a phone and very light, that sounds most > portable. > I haven't used either of these but I have seen the KNFB Reader. It looked > fast and reliable. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader > > Hi all: > > Just wondering, > I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the > FS Perl reader. > > Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? > > I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are in > handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not tied > to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands cellphones and > I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) > > Which one is better? > > And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? > > Also, are there any student discounts? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 21:00:47 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 17:00:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: References: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4BC1D5A0ED364F5197459BC76E9E733E@OwnerPC> Brice, Thanks. I feel that way too. If its already accessible, why should I have to reinvent the wheel? We had like ten pages the last class and it takes a while to scan and for openbook to recognize it and after that, its not a flawless copy and I could read a correct copy no errors if the document was electronicly delivered to me. -----Original Message----- From: Brice Smith Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In Ashley's defense, she did say she would scan the material in her original message. I don't think anyone has recently said they are completely unwilling to go the extra step in class, which makes me question why everyone is jumping on the scan your documents bandwagon. I don't use disability services for documents and I've hand-scanned my own documents when necessary. The key here is that students need to be required to do whatever it takes to be successful or keep up. This may include scanning your own stuff if that's the only way you can compete with your classmates and follow along in class. But if someone has a copy of what you need somewhere, you should advocate for yourself and get it. Why should Ashley spend time scanning papers when a copy in word or pdf already exists? Why should Ashley take extra time out of her already busy schedule to create access to something that is already in an accessible format? I recently wanted to read a book from a 20-something traveler who spent time backpacking around Latin America with no money. I couldn't find the book anywhere in an electronic format, and trust me, "anywhere" includes everywhere. Did I buy the book and scan it myself? Not at all. I Facebooked the author and asked him if he could send me the pdf. He was glad to send a copy, and we e-mailed back and forth for a while. Advocating for yourself and asking a professor to quickly send you a pdf of a handout that already exists in an electronic format isn't being lazy at all. It's being smart. Brice On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > I do what I can to keep up. > You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that > scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables > and > sometimes on colored paper. > > I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to have a > level playing field? > I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but > I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. > Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on > lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an > issue. > Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so > many classes he doesn't respond to emails. > > I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed > upon > accomodation is not unreasonable. > I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I was in > a > journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in > groups. > I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this > was > not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me > in class. > So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of time I > wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. > We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear > us. > Then we came back > and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us and we > can > compete equally then. > Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in > accessible format? > > Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. > You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need > to > be accessible and other course content and then do not support something > like accessible handouts. > Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, > and > have a reader read you inaccessible content. > Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. > > First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling > our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be > responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, > searching for material and staying current with new options for > accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, > there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is > generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. > > Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple > classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which > involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to > publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are > doing their own research and work. > > To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what > they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in > time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital > information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either > in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you > have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will > still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or > PP presentations. > > Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how > often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? > And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I > do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it > is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, > and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not > the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* > > And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone > has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions > especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of > communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just > ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, > and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. > > I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your > own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I > took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never > encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not > follow along with a lecture and PP slides. > > I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take > print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. > And as a creative writing major taking studios based around > workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan > student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic > copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I > needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a > situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the > material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and > other formatting issues. > > It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful > in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have > what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is > it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for > sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and > anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, > that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to > everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it > isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the > middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you > can on your own. > > I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to > keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires > students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. > Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course > material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. > Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been > seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. > > I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do > it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way > they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class > are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes > requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent > electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures > or discussions. > > I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting > on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it > perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. > > As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves > and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more > work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for > us. > > Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and > there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services > essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many > students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We > have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or > understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply > and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your > specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. > > Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to > rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is > life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or > communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. > Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will > make you a much happier student. > > If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are > in the workforce. *smile* > > Bridgit > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 > From: "Sean Whalen" > To: > Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. > Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me > what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have > the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long > books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I > did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how > horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could > have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base > here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves > if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it > isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the > thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while > we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it > actually exists. > > > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > -- Brice Smith North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 21:13:27 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:13:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: References: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, I think you raise a very good point with the inaccessible web sites. And I'd say yes, as long as the sites aren't accessible and we need to use them, we do what we need to. I've had to have roommates and friends help read me inaccessible stuff before...is it fair, no. Should we push to make things more accessible and equal? Of course. But they aren't, and we do need to deal with that. In lots of ways the deck is stacked against us as blind students- we need to do extra to get our materials, etc. It's not right, it's not fair, it's life. And yeah, getting stuff from professors is, I think, the best option when they already have the dang thing in electronic format. But if they aren't responding, I think it's up to you to solve the situation however you have to. And it'll probably involve a lot of figurative blood, sweat and tears. That, unfortunately, is the way it works. It shouldn't be...we should have equal access. We're fighting for equal access. We have more equal access than the blind college students 20 years ago. But it's still not equal, and if we're going to succeed we have to work harder than the average student, spend lots more extra time than the average student, get more help than the average student, find more solutions than the average student...in short, we're gonna have a rougher go of it than the average student. It's not right, but the sooner we get used to it the sooner we'll succeed. Equal access is a worthy goal- I think an attainable goal, but we're not there yet. so, unfortunately, that means we're fighting an uphill battle and we have to work even harder. Sorry for my rant. This is just what I've been realizing as I've been struggling through college and having a harder time than I thought I would. Best, Kirt On 4/1/11, Brice Smith wrote: > In Ashley's defense, she did say she would scan the material in her > original message. I don't think anyone has recently said they are > completely unwilling to go the extra step in class, which makes me > question why everyone is jumping on the scan your documents bandwagon. > > I don't use disability services for documents and I've hand-scanned my > own documents when necessary. The key here is that students need to be > required to do whatever it takes to be successful or keep up. This may > include scanning your own stuff if that's the only way you can compete > with your classmates and follow along in class. But if someone has a > copy of what you need somewhere, you should advocate for yourself and > get it. Why should Ashley spend time scanning papers when a copy in > word or pdf already exists? Why should Ashley take extra time out of > her already busy schedule to create access to something that is > already in an accessible format? > > I recently wanted to read a book from a 20-something traveler who > spent time backpacking around Latin America with no money. I couldn't > find the book anywhere in an electronic format, and trust me, > "anywhere" includes everywhere. Did I buy the book and scan it myself? > Not at all. I Facebooked the author and asked him if he could send me > the pdf. He was glad to send a copy, and we e-mailed back and forth > for a while. > > Advocating for yourself and asking a professor to quickly send you a > pdf of a handout that already exists in an electronic format isn't > being lazy at all. > > It's being smart. > > Brice > > On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> I do what I can to keep up. >> You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that >> scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables >> and >> sometimes on colored paper. >> >> I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to have a >> level playing field? >> I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but >> I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. >> Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on >> lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an >> issue. >> Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so >> many classes he doesn't respond to emails. >> >> I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed >> upon >> accomodation is not unreasonable. >> I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I was in >> a >> journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in >> groups. >> I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this >> was >> not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me >> in class. >> So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of time I >> wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. >> We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear >> us. >> Then we came back >> and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us and we >> can >> compete equally then. >> Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in >> accessible format? >> >> Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. >> You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need >> to >> be accessible and other course content and then do not support something >> like accessible handouts. >> Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, >> and >> have a reader read you inaccessible content. >> Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. >> >> First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling >> our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be >> responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, >> searching for material and staying current with new options for >> accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, >> there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is >> generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. >> >> Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple >> classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which >> involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to >> publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are >> doing their own research and work. >> >> To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what >> they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in >> time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital >> information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either >> in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you >> have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will >> still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or >> PP presentations. >> >> Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how >> often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? >> And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I >> do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it >> is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, >> and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not >> the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* >> >> And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone >> has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions >> especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of >> communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just >> ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, >> and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. >> >> I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your >> own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I >> took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never >> encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not >> follow along with a lecture and PP slides. >> >> I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take >> print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. >> And as a creative writing major taking studios based around >> workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan >> student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic >> copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I >> needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a >> situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the >> material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and >> other formatting issues. >> >> It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful >> in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have >> what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is >> it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for >> sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and >> anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, >> that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to >> everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it >> isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the >> middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you >> can on your own. >> >> I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to >> keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires >> students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. >> Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course >> material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. >> Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been >> seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. >> >> I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do >> it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way >> they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class >> are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes >> requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent >> electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures >> or discussions. >> >> I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting >> on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it >> perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. >> >> As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves >> and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more >> work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for >> us. >> >> Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and >> there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services >> essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many >> students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We >> have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or >> understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply >> and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your >> specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. >> >> Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to >> rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is >> life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or >> communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. >> Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will >> make you a much happier student. >> >> If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are >> in the workforce. *smile* >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 >> From: "Sean Whalen" >> To: >> Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. >> Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me >> what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have >> the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long >> books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I >> did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how >> horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could >> have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base >> here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves >> if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it >> isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the >> thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while >> we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it >> actually exists. >> >> >> >> Sean >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Brice Smith > North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations > Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 21:23:54 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:23:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader In-Reply-To: References: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com> <530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: George, I got a KNFB reader last summer as a NFB scholarship winner. From my experience, they're slow, unreliable, and their scanning is shoddy at best. Maybe it's me. But I've not figured out the knack of having it read legibly from just any old handout. It works fine for restaurant menus or things with really large type...but other than that I wouldn't really recommend it. But the Pearl's not really portable. I dunno...maybe there's something for Ipods and ipads? Sorry I'm not more help, Kirt On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Oh. Then you can have the KNFB reader; you do not have to hook up phone > service unless you want it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:45 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader > > Well, > what I meant was I don't want it to come with a cellphone if possible. > I don't wanna pay extra to have a cellphone that can scan since I won't > utilize the cellphone part --yet I need something that is portable. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, > wrote: > >> Hi, >> You said tied to. Tied to what? >> I heard Perl isn't very portable because you have to use a computer and >> openbook with it. >> Since the KNFB reader is a phone and very light, that sounds most >> portable. >> I haven't used either of these but I have seen the KNFB Reader. It looked >> fast and reliable. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader >> >> Hi all: >> >> Just wondering, >> I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the >> FS Perl reader. >> >> Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? >> >> I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are in >> >> handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not tied >> >> to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands cellphones and >> >> I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) >> >> Which one is better? >> >> And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? >> >> Also, are there any student discounts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 21:36:08 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:36:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely invaluable resources. The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC will be detailed below. CourseSmart * Mainstream access to eTextBooks * Affordable, timely, and true access * in-book, chapter, or section searches. *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, sections, etc) * Jump to specific page * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and great about resolving everything. * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality * Fantastic and wonderful support Kevin On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? > If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? > Arielle > > On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >> utilized by all. >> >> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >> time to move on. >> >> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not >> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >> innovative eTextBook service. >> >> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off >> eTextBooks >> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, >> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >> handouts, assignments, etc >> >> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental >> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >> vision, learning disabled). >> >> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will lift >> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >> content. >> >> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >> course material. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kevin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 1 21:39:24 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 17:39:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader In-Reply-To: References: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com><530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2F83D4FCD56149468E25623F7788A995@OwnerPC> No the Perl isn't portable. Read about it on Freedom scientific's site. IF you want portable do the KNFB reader or maybe try the Eyepal. I asked about portable scanners too and it appears few options exist for portability. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 5:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader George, I got a KNFB reader last summer as a NFB scholarship winner. From my experience, they're slow, unreliable, and their scanning is shoddy at best. Maybe it's me. But I've not figured out the knack of having it read legibly from just any old handout. It works fine for restaurant menus or things with really large type...but other than that I wouldn't really recommend it. But the Pearl's not really portable. I dunno...maybe there's something for Ipods and ipads? Sorry I'm not more help, Kirt On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Oh. Then you can have the KNFB reader; you do not have to hook up phone > service unless you want it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:45 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader > > Well, > what I meant was I don't want it to come with a cellphone if possible. > I don't wanna pay extra to have a cellphone that can scan since I won't > utilize the cellphone part --yet I need something that is portable. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, > wrote: > >> Hi, >> You said tied to. Tied to what? >> I heard Perl isn't very portable because you have to use a computer and >> openbook with it. >> Since the KNFB reader is a phone and very light, that sounds most >> portable. >> I haven't used either of these but I have seen the KNFB Reader. It looked >> fast and reliable. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader >> >> Hi all: >> >> Just wondering, >> I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the >> FS Perl reader. >> >> Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? >> >> I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are >> in >> >> handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not >> tied >> >> to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands cellphones >> and >> >> I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) >> >> Which one is better? >> >> And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? >> >> Also, are there any student discounts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Sat Apr 2 00:55:48 2011 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg Wocher) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 17:55:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Kevin, I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? Thanks, Greg W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics > Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely > invaluable resources. > > The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC > will be detailed below. > > CourseSmart > * Mainstream access to eTextBooks > * Affordable, timely, and true access > * in-book, chapter, or section searches. > *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, > sections, etc) > * Jump to specific page > * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, > alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted > representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. > * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and > great about resolving everything. > * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); > Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. > > > Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) > * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to > provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. > * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality > * Fantastic and wonderful support > > > > Kevin > > On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >> Arielle >> >> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>> utilized by all. >>> >>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>> time to move on. >>> >>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not >>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>> innovative eTextBook service. >>> >>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off >>> eTextBooks >>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, >>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>> handouts, assignments, etc >>> >>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental >>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>> vision, learning disabled). >>> >>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will lift >>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>> content. >>> >>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>> course material. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 22:00:28 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 17:00:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Online is most accessible and actively developed Sent from my iPhone On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" wrote: > Hello Kevin, > I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? > Thanks, > Greg W. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics > > >> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >> invaluable resources. >> >> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >> will be detailed below. >> >> CourseSmart >> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >> * Affordable, timely, and true access >> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >> sections, etc) >> * Jump to specific page >> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >> great about resolving everything. >> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >> >> >> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >> * Fantastic and wonderful support >> >> >> >> Kevin >> >> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>> utilized by all. >>>> >>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>> time to move on. >>>> >>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not >>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>> >>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off >>>> eTextBooks >>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, >>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>> >>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental >>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>> >>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will lift >>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>> content. >>>> >>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>> course material. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com From gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org Sat Apr 2 02:20:55 2011 From: gwblindman1 at gwblindman.org (Greg Wocher) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 19:20:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Hello Kevin, That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I could not find any of the text for the book I tried. Thanks, Greg W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille,and Tactile Graphics > Online is most accessible and actively developed > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" > wrote: > >> Hello Kevin, >> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >> Thanks, >> Greg W. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >> >> >>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>> invaluable resources. >>> >>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>> will be detailed below. >>> >>> CourseSmart >>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>> sections, etc) >>> * Jump to specific page >>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>> great about resolving everything. >>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>> >>> >>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>> >>> >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>> utilized by all. >>>>> >>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>> time to move on. >>>>> >>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not >>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>> >>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off >>>>> eTextBooks >>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, >>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>> >>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental >>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>> >>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>> lift >>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>> content. >>>>> >>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>> course material. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Kevin >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 23:30:41 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:30:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Message-ID: Greg and All, I've been a very excited and happy user of CourseSmart eTextBookssfor past 6 months. We'll work off possible problems you've encountered off-list. Kevin On 4/1/11, Greg Wocher wrote: > Hello Kevin, > That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago > and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I could > not find any of the text for the book I tried. > Thanks, > Greg W. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Chao" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, > Braille,and Tactile Graphics > > >> Online is most accessible and actively developed >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Kevin, >>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>> Thanks, >>> Greg W. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>> >>> >>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>> invaluable resources. >>>> >>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>> will be detailed below. >>>> >>>> CourseSmart >>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>> sections, etc) >>>> * Jump to specific page >>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>> great about resolving everything. >>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>> >>>> >>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> >>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>> >>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>> >>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not >>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>> >>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off >>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, >>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental >>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>> lift >>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>> content. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>> course material. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Kevin >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > From kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com Fri Apr 1 23:51:47 2011 From: kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com (Kevin R. Fjelsted) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:51:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Message-ID: I use CourseSmart very successfully to read a Java textbook for one of my computer science courses. The off-line version for the Mac works very well with VoiceOver under 10.6.7. Infect there was a recent update for the CourseSmart Mac program that I downloaded yesterday which has many improvements including seamless Braille and speech reading support. One can use the table of contents navigation table to immediately go to any section of the book. One can set book marks. Even if one quits and forgets to set a bookmark when the program is opened the cursor is moved to the exact place where the person left off. THis is a little thing but one of my biggest pet peeves with the Daisy Readhear program regardless of the platform. I tried CourseSmart for the IPhone and to date that program does not work well. One can read the actual text but the table of contents is not navigable. If that issue were resolved then the IPhone would work very well. I too tried the on-line version and although it is usable I found that for the times that I am not able to get a good internet connection it puts me at a disadvantage. I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is not nearly as seamless with the online version. -Kevin On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: > Greg and All, > > I've been a very excited and happy user of CourseSmart eTextBookssfor > past 6 months. > > We'll work off possible problems you've encountered off-list. > > Kevin > > On 4/1/11, Greg Wocher wrote: >> Hello Kevin, >> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago >> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >> could >> not find any of the text for the book I tried. >> Thanks, >> Greg W. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kevin Chao" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >> >> >>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Kevin, >>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Greg W. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>> >>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>> >>>>> CourseSmart >>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>> sections, etc) >>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kevin >>>>> >>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>> off >>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>> rental >>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>> lift >>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>> content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com > -- Kevin Fjelsted B Harris, Inc. http://www.bharrisinc.com kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 Direct: 612.424.7332 From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 23:57:08 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 19:57:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Message-ID: <476943FF-8B49-4325-B68D-21D1A862764A@gmail.com> How much does Court Smart charge? Thanks, Jorge On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:51 PM, Kevin R. Fjelsted wrote: > I use CourseSmart very successfully to read a Java textbook for one of > my computer science courses. The off-line version for the Mac works > very well with VoiceOver under 10.6.7. Infect there was a recent > update for the CourseSmart Mac program that I downloaded yesterday > which has many improvements including seamless Braille and speech > reading support. One can use the table of contents navigation table to > immediately go to any section of the book. One can set book marks. > Even if one quits and forgets to set a bookmark when the program is > opened the cursor is moved to the exact place where the person left > off. THis is a little thing but one of my biggest pet peeves with the > Daisy Readhear program regardless of the platform. I tried CourseSmart > for the IPhone and to date that program does not work well. One can > read the actual text but the table of contents is not navigable. If > that issue were resolved then the IPhone would work very well. I too > tried the on-line version and although it is usable I found that for > the times that I am not able to get a good internet connection it puts > me at a disadvantage. > I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone > the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is > not nearly as seamless with the online version. -Kevin > > On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >> Greg and All, >> >> I've been a very excited and happy user of CourseSmart eTextBookssfor >> past 6 months. >> >> We'll work off possible problems you've encountered off-list. >> >> Kevin >> >> On 4/1/11, Greg Wocher wrote: >>> Hello Kevin, >>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago >>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>> could >>> not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>> Thanks, >>> Greg W. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kevin Chao" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>> >>> >>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Greg W. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>> >>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>> >>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kevin >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kevin Fjelsted > B Harris, Inc. > http://www.bharrisinc.com > kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted > Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 > Direct: 612.424.7332 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 01:13:23 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 20:13:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <476943FF-8B49-4325-B68D-21D1A862764A@gmail.com> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> <476943FF-8B49-4325-B68D-21D1A862764A@gmail.com> Message-ID: 60% off regular print textbooks Sent from my iPhone On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > How much does Court Smart charge? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:51 PM, Kevin R. Fjelsted wrote: > >> I use CourseSmart very successfully to read a Java textbook for one of >> my computer science courses. The off-line version for the Mac works >> very well with VoiceOver under 10.6.7. Infect there was a recent >> update for the CourseSmart Mac program that I downloaded yesterday >> which has many improvements including seamless Braille and speech >> reading support. One can use the table of contents navigation table to >> immediately go to any section of the book. One can set book marks. >> Even if one quits and forgets to set a bookmark when the program is >> opened the cursor is moved to the exact place where the person left >> off. THis is a little thing but one of my biggest pet peeves with the >> Daisy Readhear program regardless of the platform. I tried CourseSmart >> for the IPhone and to date that program does not work well. One can >> read the actual text but the table of contents is not navigable. If >> that issue were resolved then the IPhone would work very well. I too >> tried the on-line version and although it is usable I found that for >> the times that I am not able to get a good internet connection it puts >> me at a disadvantage. >> I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone >> the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is >> not nearly as seamless with the online version. -Kevin >> >> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>> Greg and All, >>> >>> I've been a very excited and happy user of CourseSmart eTextBookssfor >>> past 6 months. >>> >>> We'll work off possible problems you've encountered off-list. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> On 4/1/11, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>> Hello Kevin, >>>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago >>>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>>> could >>>> not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Greg W. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kevin Chao" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>>> >>>> >>>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin Fjelsted >> B Harris, Inc. >> http://www.bharrisinc.com >> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted >> Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 >> Direct: 612.424.7332 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 03:29:47 2011 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 22:29:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Message-ID: <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> Hi, I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year ago, and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. Valerie Gibson Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson Skype me at: WolfDragonVal I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: > Hello Kevin, > That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I could not find any of the text for the book I tried. > Thanks, > Greg W. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille,and Tactile Graphics > > >> Online is most accessible and actively developed >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" wrote: >> >>> Hello Kevin, >>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>> Thanks, >>> Greg W. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>> >>> >>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>> invaluable resources. >>>> >>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>> will be detailed below. >>>> >>>> CourseSmart >>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>> sections, etc) >>>> * Jump to specific page >>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>> great about resolving everything. >>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>> >>>> >>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> >>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>> >>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>> >>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: not >>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>> >>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% off >>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, high-quality, >>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook rental >>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will lift >>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>> content. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>> course material. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Kevin >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From graduate56 at juno.com Sat Apr 2 04:43:29 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 22:43:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Student seminar in Greeley. Message-ID: Are you a student who is blind? Are you a Student who has low-vision? Are you a Student that is blind or visually impaired that is returning to school? Are you a parent or teacher of a blind student? We have a way to help"... The COLORADO ASOCIATION of BLIND STUDENTS Pressents: Broadening the horizons through bringing education to life for the blind and visually impaired student. Whin: April 9, 2011 Where: The campus of northern colorado Michner Library lindou auditorium >From 11:00 till 4:00 Come and join us for refreshments, learning and fun. Blessings! Sincerely, Melissa Green When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you From gpaikens at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 05:07:07 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 00:07:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: References: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3E74E9EA-9724-4ABD-84C5-F88BD591D18A@gmail.com> Brice, Thanks for articulating what I wanted to say. Advocating for yourself to gain access to accessible materials that already exist, while being prepared to scan/get a reader or whatever seems like the best approach. Scanning afterward is a valuable tool, but it doesn't allow us to access the material during class. I agree with you Ashley that this is a big deal. I find that my notes are far more organized and comprehensive when I can follow the outline of the presentation in electronic format. Taking notes directly on the power point outline can be very effective. This is the way many of my sighted classmates take notes as well, although they may do it by hand. Teachers provide handouts and lecture slides as learning tools. Having access to them while learning is taking place is supposed to enrich the learning experience, so it is important to try and get these ahead of time whenever possible. To add to the suggestions already offered, I would stress the need to be proactive. As Bridget pointed out, professors are extremely busy and it is our responsibility to remind them of what we need when necessary. Assuming you have discussed the accommodations you need already, it is perfectly acceptable to send your professor an email the day before class as a friendly reminder for them to send you the lecture slides or handouts whenever they finish preparing them. For example, Hi Dr. Soandso, I just wanted to send you a reminder to email me the lecture slides for next wednesday's class when you get a chance. That kind of thing is reasonable and appropriate, especially if your prof is having a hard time remembering. Then, when they do come through with the electronic materials, be sure to reinforce that behavior by thanking them by email and in person. Explain how helpful it was to have the materials in class etc. Most profs are probably unaware of how important the accommodation is. Letting them know it makes a difference will hopefully make them more willing to continue supporting you in that way. Whatever you do, be positive and confident in advocating for yourself. You haven't asked for accommodations that you don't need, so don't feel bad for asking a professor to provide your approved accommodations. And like everyone else has said, be prepared to pick up the slack when things don't work out like they should. -Greg On Apr 1, 2011, at 3:51 PM, Brice Smith wrote: > In Ashley's defense, she did say she would scan the material in her > original message. I don't think anyone has recently said they are > completely unwilling to go the extra step in class, which makes me > question why everyone is jumping on the scan your documents bandwagon. > > I don't use disability services for documents and I've hand-scanned my > own documents when necessary. The key here is that students need to be > required to do whatever it takes to be successful or keep up. This may > include scanning your own stuff if that's the only way you can compete > with your classmates and follow along in class. But if someone has a > copy of what you need somewhere, you should advocate for yourself and > get it. Why should Ashley spend time scanning papers when a copy in > word or pdf already exists? Why should Ashley take extra time out of > her already busy schedule to create access to something that is > already in an accessible format? > > I recently wanted to read a book from a 20-something traveler who > spent time backpacking around Latin America with no money. I couldn't > find the book anywhere in an electronic format, and trust me, > "anywhere" includes everywhere. Did I buy the book and scan it myself? > Not at all. I Facebooked the author and asked him if he could send me > the pdf. He was glad to send a copy, and we e-mailed back and forth > for a while. > > Advocating for yourself and asking a professor to quickly send you a > pdf of a handout that already exists in an electronic format isn't > being lazy at all. > > It's being smart. > > Brice > > On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> I do what I can to keep up. >> You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that >> scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables and >> sometimes on colored paper. >> >> I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to have a >> level playing field? >> I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but >> I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. >> Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on >> lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an issue. >> Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so >> many classes he doesn't respond to emails. >> >> I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed upon >> accomodation is not unreasonable. >> I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I was in a >> journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in groups. >> I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this was >> not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me >> in class. >> So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of time I >> wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. >> We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear us. >> Then we came back >> and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us and we can >> compete equally then. >> Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in >> accessible format? >> >> Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. >> You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need to >> be accessible and other course content and then do not support something >> like accessible handouts. >> Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, and >> have a reader read you inaccessible content. >> Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. >> >> First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling >> our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be >> responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, >> searching for material and staying current with new options for >> accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, >> there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is >> generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. >> >> Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple >> classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which >> involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to >> publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are >> doing their own research and work. >> >> To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what >> they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in >> time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital >> information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either >> in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you >> have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will >> still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or >> PP presentations. >> >> Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how >> often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? >> And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I >> do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it >> is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, >> and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not >> the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* >> >> And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone >> has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions >> especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of >> communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just >> ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, >> and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. >> >> I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your >> own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I >> took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never >> encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not >> follow along with a lecture and PP slides. >> >> I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take >> print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. >> And as a creative writing major taking studios based around >> workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan >> student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic >> copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I >> needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a >> situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the >> material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and >> other formatting issues. >> >> It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful >> in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have >> what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is >> it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for >> sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and >> anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, >> that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to >> everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it >> isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the >> middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you >> can on your own. >> >> I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to >> keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires >> students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. >> Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course >> material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. >> Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been >> seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. >> >> I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do >> it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way >> they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class >> are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes >> requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent >> electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures >> or discussions. >> >> I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting >> on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it >> perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. >> >> As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves >> and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more >> work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for >> us. >> >> Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and >> there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services >> essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many >> students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We >> have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or >> understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply >> and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your >> specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. >> >> Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to >> rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is >> life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or >> communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. >> Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will >> make you a much happier student. >> >> If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are >> in the workforce. *smile* >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 >> From: "Sean Whalen" >> To: >> Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. >> Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me >> what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have >> the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long >> books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I >> did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how >> horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could >> have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base >> here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves >> if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it >> isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the >> thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while >> we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it >> actually exists. >> >> >> >> Sean >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Brice Smith > North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations > Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 14:32:56 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:32:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> Message-ID: CourseSmart started work in Spring 2010 to be accessible to all, including those with print-disabilities. I'll detail a brief timeline: * Spring and Summer 2010: lots of work went into making website, downloadable reader, and web reader accessible. * Fall 2010: Downloadable reader was made accessible; partnered with AMAC and AccessTextNetwork to form STudent E-Rental Pilot Project (STEPP) with a grant from Department of Education (DOE). * Springg2011: Web reader was made very accessible and includes remediation/tagging from AMAC. * Over next 2-years, STEPP with DOE funding will continue to work on affordable, accessible, innovative, and great eTextBook rental pilot project. STEPP has many goals, including making eTextBooks a reality to all, including print-disabled, ADA and section 504 compliance, and streamlining process in this space. CourseSmart has sample and full eTextBooks, which are fully accessible Due to publishers and DRM, there is one caveat. If using Web reader, in order for book text to be accessible, one must email accessibility at coursesmart.com informing that one is a screen reader user and screen reader flag must be enabled. If this is not done, experience will be what sighted have, where book text is a picture of physical page. This limitation does not exist if one is using downloadable reader. Please for all questions, concerns, and suggestions about CourseSmart accessibility: accessibility at coursesmart.com is an absolutely fantastic contact. Kevin On 4/1/11, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Hi, > > I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year ago, > and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. > Valerie Gibson > Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 > or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson > Skype me at: WolfDragonVal > I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: > >> Hello Kevin, >> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago >> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >> could not find any of the text for the book I tried. >> Thanks, >> Greg W. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >> >> >>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Kevin, >>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Greg W. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>> >>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>> >>>>> CourseSmart >>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>> sections, etc) >>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kevin >>>>> >>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>> off >>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>> rental >>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>> lift >>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>> content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 15:36:50 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:36:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <630D27B0-D0DE-4150-A621-2B96DC591246@gmail.com> Is it accessible with both Voice Over and JFW? On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: > CourseSmart started work in Spring 2010 to be accessible to all, > including those with print-disabilities. > > I'll detail a brief timeline: > * Spring and Summer 2010: lots of work went into making website, > downloadable reader, and web reader accessible. > * Fall 2010: Downloadable reader was made accessible; partnered with > AMAC and AccessTextNetwork to form STudent E-Rental Pilot Project > (STEPP) with a grant from Department of Education (DOE). > * Springg2011: Web reader was made very accessible and includes > remediation/tagging from AMAC. > * Over next 2-years, STEPP with DOE funding will continue to work on > affordable, accessible, innovative, and great eTextBook rental pilot > project. > > STEPP has many goals, including making eTextBooks a reality to all, > including print-disabled, ADA and section 504 compliance, and > streamlining process in this space. > > CourseSmart has sample and full eTextBooks, which are fully accessible > Due to publishers and DRM, there is one caveat. If using Web reader, > in order for book text to be accessible, one must email > accessibility at coursesmart.com informing that one is a screen reader > user and screen reader flag must be enabled. If this is not done, > experience will be what sighted have, where book text is a picture of > physical page. > This limitation does not exist if one is using downloadable reader. > > Please for all questions, concerns, and suggestions about CourseSmart > accessibility: > accessibility at coursesmart.com > is an absolutely fantastic contact. > > Kevin > > > On 4/1/11, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year ago, >> and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. >> Valerie Gibson >> Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 >> or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson >> Skype me at: WolfDragonVal >> I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com >> >> On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: >> >>> Hello Kevin, >>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months ago >>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>> could not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>> Thanks, >>> Greg W. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>> >>> >>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Greg W. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>> >>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>> >>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kevin >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college student >>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, and >>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so reliant >>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible for >>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy accessible >>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 15:59:45 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:59:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <630D27B0-D0DE-4150-A621-2B96DC591246@gmail.com> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> <630D27B0-D0DE-4150-A621-2B96DC591246@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, it's platform, browser, and screen reader agnostic. I use it with JAWS, NVDA, and VoiceOver (Mac OS X and iOS) This is what I've been using for past 6 months and would not even consider going back to status quo of: audio books, scanning books, and using human readers. Equal access to an innovative eTextBook rental platform. Kevin On 4/2/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Is it accessible with both Voice Over and JFW? > > > On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: > >> CourseSmart started work in Spring 2010 to be accessible to all, >> including those with print-disabilities. >> >> I'll detail a brief timeline: >> * Spring and Summer 2010: lots of work went into making website, >> downloadable reader, and web reader accessible. >> * Fall 2010: Downloadable reader was made accessible; partnered with >> AMAC and AccessTextNetwork to form STudent E-Rental Pilot Project >> (STEPP) with a grant from Department of Education (DOE). >> * Springg2011: Web reader was made very accessible and includes >> remediation/tagging from AMAC. >> * Over next 2-years, STEPP with DOE funding will continue to work on >> affordable, accessible, innovative, and great eTextBook rental pilot >> project. >> >> STEPP has many goals, including making eTextBooks a reality to all, >> including print-disabled, ADA and section 504 compliance, and >> streamlining process in this space. >> >> CourseSmart has sample and full eTextBooks, which are fully accessible >> Due to publishers and DRM, there is one caveat. If using Web reader, >> in order for book text to be accessible, one must email >> accessibility at coursesmart.com informing that one is a screen reader >> user and screen reader flag must be enabled. If this is not done, >> experience will be what sighted have, where book text is a picture of >> physical page. >> This limitation does not exist if one is using downloadable reader. >> >> Please for all questions, concerns, and suggestions about CourseSmart >> accessibility: >> accessibility at coursesmart.com >> is an absolutely fantastic contact. >> >> Kevin >> >> >> On 4/1/11, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year >>> ago, >>> and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. >>> Valerie Gibson >>> Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 >>> or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson >>> Skype me at: WolfDragonVal >>> I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com >>> >>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Kevin, >>>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months >>>> ago >>>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>>> could not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Greg W. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>>> >>>> >>>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college >>>>>>>>> student >>>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so >>>>>>>>> reliant >>>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this >>>>>>>>> possible: >>>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy >>>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 16:30:39 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:30:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> <630D27B0-D0DE-4150-A621-2B96DC591246@gmail.com> Message-ID: <37331CDB-40D9-4DEB-A11A-E16B897EF151@gmail.com> Wait-what do you mean by rental? On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: > Yes, it's platform, browser, and screen reader agnostic. > I use it with JAWS, NVDA, and VoiceOver (Mac OS X and iOS) > This is what I've been using for past 6 months and would not even > consider going back to status quo of: > audio books, scanning books, and using human readers. > > Equal access to an innovative eTextBook rental platform. > > Kevin > > On 4/2/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Is it accessible with both Voice Over and JFW? >> >> >> On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: >> >>> CourseSmart started work in Spring 2010 to be accessible to all, >>> including those with print-disabilities. >>> >>> I'll detail a brief timeline: >>> * Spring and Summer 2010: lots of work went into making website, >>> downloadable reader, and web reader accessible. >>> * Fall 2010: Downloadable reader was made accessible; partnered with >>> AMAC and AccessTextNetwork to form STudent E-Rental Pilot Project >>> (STEPP) with a grant from Department of Education (DOE). >>> * Springg2011: Web reader was made very accessible and includes >>> remediation/tagging from AMAC. >>> * Over next 2-years, STEPP with DOE funding will continue to work on >>> affordable, accessible, innovative, and great eTextBook rental pilot >>> project. >>> >>> STEPP has many goals, including making eTextBooks a reality to all, >>> including print-disabled, ADA and section 504 compliance, and >>> streamlining process in this space. >>> >>> CourseSmart has sample and full eTextBooks, which are fully accessible >>> Due to publishers and DRM, there is one caveat. If using Web reader, >>> in order for book text to be accessible, one must email >>> accessibility at coursesmart.com informing that one is a screen reader >>> user and screen reader flag must be enabled. If this is not done, >>> experience will be what sighted have, where book text is a picture of >>> physical page. >>> This limitation does not exist if one is using downloadable reader. >>> >>> Please for all questions, concerns, and suggestions about CourseSmart >>> accessibility: >>> accessibility at coursesmart.com >>> is an absolutely fantastic contact. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> >>> On 4/1/11, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year >>>> ago, >>>> and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. >>>> Valerie Gibson >>>> Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 >>>> or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson >>>> Skype me at: WolfDragonVal >>>> I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com >>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months >>>>> ago >>>>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>>>> could not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Greg W. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college >>>>>>>>>> student >>>>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so >>>>>>>>>> reliant >>>>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this >>>>>>>>>> possible: >>>>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy >>>>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 16:35:50 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:35:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <37331CDB-40D9-4DEB-A11A-E16B897EF151@gmail.com> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> <10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com> <630D27B0-D0DE-4150-A621-2B96DC591246@gmail.com> <37331CDB-40D9-4DEB-A11A-E16B897EF151@gmail.com> Message-ID: At moment, CourseSmart does an eTextBook rental program, where you can rent for 180, 360, 520, and 740 days. Most textbooks are only needed for a semester, where 180 days would be more than sufficient. On 4/2/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Wait-what do you mean by rental? > > > On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: > >> Yes, it's platform, browser, and screen reader agnostic. >> I use it with JAWS, NVDA, and VoiceOver (Mac OS X and iOS) >> This is what I've been using for past 6 months and would not even >> consider going back to status quo of: >> audio books, scanning books, and using human readers. >> >> Equal access to an innovative eTextBook rental platform. >> >> Kevin >> >> On 4/2/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Is it accessible with both Voice Over and JFW? >>> >>> >>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: >>> >>>> CourseSmart started work in Spring 2010 to be accessible to all, >>>> including those with print-disabilities. >>>> >>>> I'll detail a brief timeline: >>>> * Spring and Summer 2010: lots of work went into making website, >>>> downloadable reader, and web reader accessible. >>>> * Fall 2010: Downloadable reader was made accessible; partnered with >>>> AMAC and AccessTextNetwork to form STudent E-Rental Pilot Project >>>> (STEPP) with a grant from Department of Education (DOE). >>>> * Springg2011: Web reader was made very accessible and includes >>>> remediation/tagging from AMAC. >>>> * Over next 2-years, STEPP with DOE funding will continue to work on >>>> affordable, accessible, innovative, and great eTextBook rental pilot >>>> project. >>>> >>>> STEPP has many goals, including making eTextBooks a reality to all, >>>> including print-disabled, ADA and section 504 compliance, and >>>> streamlining process in this space. >>>> >>>> CourseSmart has sample and full eTextBooks, which are fully accessible >>>> Due to publishers and DRM, there is one caveat. If using Web reader, >>>> in order for book text to be accessible, one must email >>>> accessibility at coursesmart.com informing that one is a screen reader >>>> user and screen reader flag must be enabled. If this is not done, >>>> experience will be what sighted have, where book text is a picture of >>>> physical page. >>>> This limitation does not exist if one is using downloadable reader. >>>> >>>> Please for all questions, concerns, and suggestions about CourseSmart >>>> accessibility: >>>> accessibility at coursesmart.com >>>> is an absolutely fantastic contact. >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/1/11, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year >>>>> ago, >>>>> and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. >>>>> Valerie Gibson >>>>> Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 >>>>> or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson >>>>> Skype me at: WolfDragonVal >>>>> I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months >>>>>> ago >>>>>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>>>>> could not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you >>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible >>>>>>>> eTextBooks, >>>>>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet >>>>>>>>> points. >>>>>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college >>>>>>>>>>> student >>>>>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and >>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which >>>>>>>>>>> includes: >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so >>>>>>>>>>> reliant >>>>>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this >>>>>>>>>>> possible: >>>>>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, >>>>>>>>>>> independence, >>>>>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up >>>>>>>>>>> 60% >>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy >>>>>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 16:49:55 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:49:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. Message-ID: <00e401cbf155$ff3a34f0$fdae9ed0$@com> I don't think I ever said, and certainly never intended to imply, that asking for handouts and other reading materials in accessible electronic formats is wrong, lazy, or not the correct approach. I absolutely advocated with my profs to get materials emailed to me. The issue, as I see it, is that once it becomes clear that you are not going to get what you need in a class, many students are unwilling to just suck it up and go the extra mile to ensure their own success. Yes, there is a legal obligation to provide materials. Yes, it may very well be an agreed upon accommodation. But, unfortunately, at times, laws are broken and obligations are ignored. Again, not directed at anybody in particular, but many blind students waste so much time whining and complaining about what we are not getting, that it would take less effort to simply get a reader or scan something. Unless you are going to bring an ADA or IDEA case about the issue, complaining isn't going to do you any good. Like Bridgit, I definitely understand that there are cases that are worth picking a fight over, but I simply don't believe that some busy or forgetful prof not sending handouts is a case worth taking to court. Of course we all should have equal access, and we should continue to fight for that. But, as I say, what should be and what actually is are two very different things. We can choose to fixate on how things should be and refuse to pick up the slack, as unfair is it might be, or we can advocate for what we need the best we can, while realizing that we might not always get it, and when we don't, we might have to work harder than the average sighted student relative to access to material. Also, keep in mind, sighted students have their own difficulties to work through, they are different for each individual, but we all have our own crosses to bear, so to speak. The equivalency drawn with the fights over web access is a false one. When it comes to website accessibility, we are advocating for equal access, as I think we all agree we should be. Saying that I ought to have access to all the same websites as sighted folks is very different than saying that when I encounter a website that is inaccessible which I need to use, that I am not going to get a reader to help me because, after all, I shouldn't have to. I should have equal access. The second is more akin to the question at hand about course materials. There are two distinct questions. Should we advocate for and expect equal access? Absolutely we should. Should we be willing and able to do extra work to succeed when equal access, be it due to a lack of legal requirement, others' disregard for rules and laws mandating equal access, or the failure of individuals to comply with obligations? In my opinion, we had better be, or we are only cheating ourselves out of achieving our own potential. So, the only bandwagon I am on is the doing what it takes to succeed even if you don't always like it, it may not be fair, and in a perfect world with equal access I wouldn't have to bandwagon. And, Ashley, just to be direct with you, what you are asking for is completely reasonable. It would be the best option for you. They do have an obligation to provide it to you. You are correct on all those points, and I never intended to argue any of them. I only mean to address a broader question of what we do when we don't get everything we should. Sean From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 17:05:31 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:05:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader Message-ID: <00e901cbf158$2d52ac80$87f80580$@com> George, KNFB reader is by far the most portable option, though you are correct, it does require a cell phone to run on. And, while I don't think it is quite as terrible as Kirt's experience would indicate, I don't think the reader has progressed to the point where it is a viable option to scan in any volume. I had success with handouts when I used a trial license, but it was not 100% accurate. I would say it is passable for handouts, but no better at this point. I have had people tell me that they have scanned and read entire books with the reader, but I think they must have both a ton of extra time on their hands and a high tolerance for errors in their text. Who knows though, maybe I just suck at using the thing. The Pearl is a stand-alone camera which requires a laptop or desktop running Open Book to OCR the scans. The camera is very compact and nice, but the tethering of it to such an over-priced piece of crap OCR program is a dealbreaker, at least for me. Ashley mentioned the EyePal. Despite having such a stupid name, it is a reasonably portable camera. It is very very similar to the Pearl, but it does not come with restrictions as to what OCR programs you can use to convert. I believe it comes with its own software, but you can do the conversion with the OCR engine of your choice. However, like the Pearl, it is probably not a great option for in-class use, as it must be hooked up to a computer. Sean From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 2 19:20:48 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:20:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: <37331CDB-40D9-4DEB-A11A-E16B897EF151@gmail.com> References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba><10574BC0-77B8-42B2-8C22-14F75CFE2E2A@gmail.com><630D27B0-D0DE-4150-A621-2B96DC591246@gmail.com> <37331CDB-40D9-4DEB-A11A-E16B897EF151@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93CC5E53C3C349A49BA2CFDF24FB3B62@OwnerPC> You rent the e-books by the semester. Not sure if they are more or less expensive than buying a book at the college bookstore. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille,and Tactile Graphics Wait-what do you mean by rental? On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: > Yes, it's platform, browser, and screen reader agnostic. > I use it with JAWS, NVDA, and VoiceOver (Mac OS X and iOS) > This is what I've been using for past 6 months and would not even > consider going back to status quo of: > audio books, scanning books, and using human readers. > > Equal access to an innovative eTextBook rental platform. > > Kevin > > On 4/2/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Is it accessible with both Voice Over and JFW? >> >> >> On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Kevin Chao wrote: >> >>> CourseSmart started work in Spring 2010 to be accessible to all, >>> including those with print-disabilities. >>> >>> I'll detail a brief timeline: >>> * Spring and Summer 2010: lots of work went into making website, >>> downloadable reader, and web reader accessible. >>> * Fall 2010: Downloadable reader was made accessible; partnered with >>> AMAC and AccessTextNetwork to form STudent E-Rental Pilot Project >>> (STEPP) with a grant from Department of Education (DOE). >>> * Springg2011: Web reader was made very accessible and includes >>> remediation/tagging from AMAC. >>> * Over next 2-years, STEPP with DOE funding will continue to work on >>> affordable, accessible, innovative, and great eTextBook rental pilot >>> project. >>> >>> STEPP has many goals, including making eTextBooks a reality to all, >>> including print-disabled, ADA and section 504 compliance, and >>> streamlining process in this space. >>> >>> CourseSmart has sample and full eTextBooks, which are fully accessible >>> Due to publishers and DRM, there is one caveat. If using Web reader, >>> in order for book text to be accessible, one must email >>> accessibility at coursesmart.com informing that one is a screen reader >>> user and screen reader flag must be enabled. If this is not done, >>> experience will be what sighted have, where book text is a picture of >>> physical page. >>> This limitation does not exist if one is using downloadable reader. >>> >>> Please for all questions, concerns, and suggestions about CourseSmart >>> accessibility: >>> accessibility at coursesmart.com >>> is an absolutely fantastic contact. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> >>> On 4/1/11, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I've tried using coursesmart and one of their online books about a year >>>> ago, >>>> and it wasn't accessible on mac or windows. >>>> Valerie Gibson >>>> Check out my facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/puppyLove3 >>>> or follow me on twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/valerie_gibson >>>> Skype me at: WolfDragonVal >>>> I'm also on windowslive messenger: valandkayla at gmail.com >>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months >>>>> ago >>>>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>>>> could not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Greg W. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you >>>>>>> use >>>>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible >>>>>>> eTextBooks, >>>>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet >>>>>>>> points. >>>>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college >>>>>>>>>> student >>>>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which >>>>>>>>>> includes: >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so >>>>>>>>>> reliant >>>>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this >>>>>>>>>> possible: >>>>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, >>>>>>>>>> independence, >>>>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up >>>>>>>>>> 60% >>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy >>>>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Apr 2 19:33:47 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:33:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My stories are true experiences. Creative nonfiction, often refered to as the fourth genre, simply means writing nonfiction with creative tecniques such as dialogue, descriptive language, metaphor, conjecture, scene development, etc. Creative nonfiction is true, but it is written applying the same techniques used in fiction. CNF is a real genre, and it is the specific emphasis of my creative writing degree. Some CNF does take true stories and events and places them into a creative format. For instance, in a memoir writing, I wrote about a situation from my childhood, but wrote it using fairytale language. Once upon a time and all that. All my stories were true, I just wrote it as though I were telling a fairytale. CNF also uses conjecture to attempt to "get inside" the minds of someone else other than the narrator. In my blog, I use metaphor and descriptive language to illustrate my point. I did not make-up what happened, but CNF writing attempts to dig beneath the surface of our lives. It does not just report real-life events, but seeks to gleen understanding and meaning from real-life. Most memoir and personal essay writing, especially nowadays, is considered creative nonfiction. Some of my favorite creative nonfiction writers are Maxine Hong Kingston, David Sedaris, Annie Dillard and Jo Ann Beard. Bridgit Message: 2 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:06:19 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog Message-ID: <9EC4FEC894BB4EE5B6DE008A823EBF8C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, So the Bridget in the story is actually yourself and are mostly true. Creative nonfiction? I haven't seen many writers do that. Nonfiction usually isn't creative. From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Apr 2 19:49:39 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:49:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kirt, Thank you. My degree is in creative writing, and this blog came along as a unique opportunity to not only use my skills, but to create a platform for diabetes and blindness. My editor has been great about allowing me to be more creative with my blogs than some of the others. Thanks for your support. My blogs post every other Thursday, and you can access the archive on the website by going to the Meet the Bloggers link than clicking on my name, Bridgit Kuenning Pollpeter. Bridgit Message: 4 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:49:36 -0600 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bridget, This is powerful stuff. I'm going back and reading some of your other posts and this is really gripping...I think you just got yourself another weekly reader. From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Apr 2 19:55:36 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:55:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PR and visual elements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brice, I have a minor in public relations, but my focus is mostly on the writing side of things. I did not have to take any of the design graphic classes, but I do have to create visual elements at times for brochures and things like that. I usually have a good idea in my head of what I want, then I work with someone to help physically create it. I will be interning this summer with a PR group, but I will work with a team, and once again, I am being used as a writer. Perhaps speaking with some of the computer and technology based email list here will help. I understand your situation, and I wish I had more helpful advice to give. Good luck. Bridgit From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Apr 2 20:15:48 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:15:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, First, calm down *smile* I believe, at least on my part, I specifically said I was not directing this towards you or anyone else. And second, I don't believe anyone has suggested you give up. Quite the opposite. A couple of us have encouraged you to keep advocating for yourself. All of us here understand the trials of being a blind student. We have experienced similar concerns, some worse than others. Some suggestions were made, and some advice given, but I don't believe anyone here would say scanning fixes everything. Perhaps you should try making an appointment with your instructor during their office hours to discuss this. If in deed electronic copies exist of material, there is no reason you should not be provided with copies. I have also suggested in the past that you speak with your disability services office since they should act as a liaison when these situations arise. If this accomplishes nothing, then maybe you should speak with your VR counselor. And I have never implied you were lazy. You obviously work hard, and you are attempting to create an equal environment for yourself at school. You are not the sole person in this relationship, and others should be working with you to ensure you have what you need. What some of us are trying to say is that the reality is that as blind students, right or wrong, we are still struggling for true equality. We need to face this reality and deal with it, but this does not mean we stop advocating and quit fighting for equality. You should not have to do more work if material is already accessible, but also remember that, at least for now, this is just gritty truth for blind students. While we continue to advocate for equal access, we will unfortunately have to do some work at times that others do not have to do. You may need to be creative and devise your own ways of achieving success in school, but again, this does not mean you no longer request accessible material and expect it in a timely fashion. No one ever suggested advocating and requesting accessible hand outs was a ridiculous fight, and that demanding equal access to websites is more important. Both are equally important especially for students. The NFB has fought, and is still fighting, for equal access to all formats of information. This is vital to the success of all blind people, and we continue to fight this battle. I am sorry you are experiencing this difficulty in school. It is not fair, but it is also reality. Do not give up, and know that this list, at least according to me, is here to help, support, encourage, but also challenge. Good luck. Bridgit Message: 7 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:22:35 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. Message-ID: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi all, I do what I can to keep up. You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables and sometimes on colored paper. I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to have a level playing field? I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an issue. Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so many classes he doesn't respond to emails. I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed upon accomodation is not unreasonable. I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I was in a journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in groups. I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this was not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me in class. So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of time I wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear us. Then we came back and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us and we can compete equally then. Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in accessible format? Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need to be accessible and other course content and then do not support something like accessible handouts. Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, and have a reader read you inaccessible content. Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. Ashley From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sat Apr 2 20:17:30 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:17:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Message-ID: Hi Kevin, It's great to see another person who's using CourseSmart and enjoying it, especially with speech and braille. Very good point, it's not only accessible, but is accessible in speech and/or braille. Are you using CourseSmart for other textbooks, other than your one Java textbook? Unfortunately, I've also found that CourseSmart iPhone app is inaccessible. However, viewing it in Safari using Web reader works well. I'm an exclusive user of CourseSmart web reader, where I've found that in most cases, I have a great internet connection. Whether that's WiFi or 3G, I'm able to read my textbooks wherever and whenever I need to. Can you please clarify and provide more details about the two points you made: "I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is not nearly as seamless with the online version." Thanks, Kevin On 4/1/11, Kevin R. Fjelsted wrote: > I use CourseSmart very successfully to read a Java textbook for one of > my computer science courses. The off-line version for the Mac works > very well with VoiceOver under 10.6.7. Infect there was a recent > update for the CourseSmart Mac program that I downloaded yesterday > which has many improvements including seamless Braille and speech > reading support. One can use the table of contents navigation table to > immediately go to any section of the book. One can set book marks. > Even if one quits and forgets to set a bookmark when the program is > opened the cursor is moved to the exact place where the person left > off. THis is a little thing but one of my biggest pet peeves with the > Daisy Readhear program regardless of the platform. I tried CourseSmart > for the IPhone and to date that program does not work well. One can > read the actual text but the table of contents is not navigable. If > that issue were resolved then the IPhone would work very well. I too > tried the on-line version and although it is usable I found that for > the times that I am not able to get a good internet connection it puts > me at a disadvantage. > I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone > the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is > not nearly as seamless with the online version. -Kevin > > On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >> Greg and All, >> >> I've been a very excited and happy user of CourseSmart eTextBookssfor >> past 6 months. >> >> We'll work off possible problems you've encountered off-list. >> >> Kevin >> >> On 4/1/11, Greg Wocher wrote: >>> Hello Kevin, >>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months >>> ago >>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>> could >>> not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>> Thanks, >>> Greg W. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kevin Chao" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>> >>> >>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Greg W. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>> >>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>> >>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kevin >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college >>>>>>>> student >>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and it's >>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so >>>>>>>> reliant >>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this possible: >>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy >>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kevin Fjelsted > B Harris, Inc. > http://www.bharrisinc.com > kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted > Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 > Direct: 612.424.7332 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com > From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Sat Apr 2 23:38:26 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 16:38:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. Message-ID: I totally and completely agree with Ashley about this. From debbiewunder at earthlink.net Sun Apr 3 01:28:02 2011 From: debbiewunder at earthlink.net (Debbie Wunder) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 20:28:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader References: <88C7EBC2-C553-48F2-8CF9-5B4A90DD3E36@gmail.com><530200CF2DA8453F823D9231CE9185E2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <45929632ACBB47C8A73C91536117DCB5@DEBBIECOMPUTER> Hi, you do not have to have the reader as your cell phone. It works just great only as a readr. The advantage to using it as a cell phone as well, is that it is one less piece of equipment you would have to worry. The reader also works as a money identifier. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader > Well, > what I meant was I don't want it to come with a cellphone if possible. > I don't wanna pay extra to have a cellphone that can scan since I won't > utilize the cellphone part --yet I need something that is portable. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, > wrote: > >> Hi, >> You said tied to. Tied to what? >> I heard Perl isn't very portable because you have to use a computer and >> openbook with it. >> Since the KNFB reader is a phone and very light, that sounds most >> portable. >> I haven't used either of these but I have seen the KNFB Reader. It looked >> fast and reliable. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] perl reader Vs. KNFB Reader >> >> Hi all: >> >> Just wondering, >> I've been hearing a lot of great stuff about both the KNFB reader and the >> FS Perl reader. >> >> Which do you guys think is better at portable scanning? >> >> I need something for school that can allow me to read handouts that are >> in handed out during class that I haven't received and preferibly is not >> tied to a cellphone (for security reasons, my high school bands >> cellphones and I'd rather not have to get a waver on this.) >> >> Which one is better? >> >> And where would be the place to get one for a reasonable price? >> >> Also, are there any student discounts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40earthlink.net From kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com Sun Apr 3 02:02:27 2011 From: kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com (Kevin R. Fjelsted) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:02:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, Braille, and Tactile Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <2220AAE8BD6F48A682F0E5F360CE85CF@GregPCToshiba> Message-ID: Kevin; So far the Java book is the only one that I have used. I will certainly look for more books through CourseSmart next semester. I find the Braille to be very seamless because it is in exact sync with the Speech. Normally I would prefer to read Braille however in this case since the book is a programming book I leave the Braille display on Grade 1 setting and thus can skim faster in speech. However when I get to a program segment the Braille is right there and I can review it on the display. Regarding bookmarks and searching the search is instantaneous when one types a word or words in the search area immediately the portions of the book with those words are available. I didn't see any way to do that on the web. I found that I could book mark on the web by page but not by word. -Kevin On 4/2/11, Kevin Chao wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > It's great to see another person who's using CourseSmart and enjoying > it, especially with speech and braille. > Very good point, it's not only accessible, but is accessible in speech > and/or braille. > > Are you using CourseSmart for other textbooks, other than your one > Java textbook? > > Unfortunately, I've also found that CourseSmart iPhone app is > inaccessible. However, viewing it in Safari using Web reader works > well. > > I'm an exclusive user of CourseSmart web reader, where I've found that > in most cases, I have a great internet connection. > Whether that's WiFi or 3G, I'm able to read my textbooks wherever and > whenever I need to. > > Can you please clarify and provide more details about the two points you > made: > "I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone > the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is > not nearly as seamless with the online version." > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > > > > On 4/1/11, Kevin R. Fjelsted wrote: >> I use CourseSmart very successfully to read a Java textbook for one of >> my computer science courses. The off-line version for the Mac works >> very well with VoiceOver under 10.6.7. Infect there was a recent >> update for the CourseSmart Mac program that I downloaded yesterday >> which has many improvements including seamless Braille and speech >> reading support. One can use the table of contents navigation table to >> immediately go to any section of the book. One can set book marks. >> Even if one quits and forgets to set a bookmark when the program is >> opened the cursor is moved to the exact place where the person left >> off. THis is a little thing but one of my biggest pet peeves with the >> Daisy Readhear program regardless of the platform. I tried CourseSmart >> for the IPhone and to date that program does not work well. One can >> read the actual text but the table of contents is not navigable. If >> that issue were resolved then the IPhone would work very well. I too >> tried the on-line version and although it is usable I found that for >> the times that I am not able to get a good internet connection it puts >> me at a disadvantage. >> I also found with the online version that the ability to finly hone >> the use of bookmarks is not viable. The final thing is that Braille is >> not nearly as seamless with the online version. -Kevin >> >> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>> Greg and All, >>> >>> I've been a very excited and happy user of CourseSmart eTextBookssfor >>> past 6 months. >>> >>> We'll work off possible problems you've encountered off-list. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> On 4/1/11, Greg Wocher wrote: >>>> Hello Kevin, >>>> That is strange. I tried using an online book from there a few months >>>> ago >>>> and I could not get it to work at all. How did you get it to work? I >>>> could >>>> not find any of the text for the book I tried. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Greg W. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kevin Chao" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>> Braille,and Tactile Graphics >>>> >>>> >>>>> Online is most accessible and actively developed >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 1, 2011, at 7:55 PM, "Greg Wocher" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Kevin, >>>>>> I have been looking at course smart for a little bit now. Do you use >>>>>> their online books or do you use their downloadable reader? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Greg W. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:36 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College Course Material: Accessible eTextBooks, >>>>>> Braille, and Tactile Graphics >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I've used CourseSmart and AMAC and find them to be absolutely >>>>>>> invaluable resources. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The various aspects that I really enjoy about CourseSmart and AMAC >>>>>>> will be detailed below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CourseSmart >>>>>>> * Mainstream access to eTextBooks >>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and true access >>>>>>> * in-book, chapter, or section searches. >>>>>>> *Very effectively and easily navigate table of contents (chapters, >>>>>>> sections, etc) >>>>>>> * Jump to specific page >>>>>>> * Highly tagged/marked-up: headings 1-5 for structured navigation, >>>>>>> alttext for description of graphics, table for formatted >>>>>>> representation of data, and lists for nicely formatted bullet points. >>>>>>> * Accessibility at CourseSmart.com is extremely committed, fast, and >>>>>>> great about resolving everything. >>>>>>> * Works with Windows (NVDA and JAWS); Mac OS X and iOS (VoiceOver); >>>>>>> Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) >>>>>>> * DSS, institutions, organizations, and companies have no excuse to >>>>>>> provide braille, tactile graphics, or other alternative media. >>>>>>> * Affordable, timely, and extremely high-quality >>>>>>> * Fantastic and wonderful support >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Has anyone used either of these two products discussed below? >>>>>>>> If so, did you find them accessible and easy to use? >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>>>>>>> I would like to share two fantastic resources for any college >>>>>>>>> student >>>>>>>>> or instructor, which I think should be advocated for, encouraged, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> utilized by all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Like most, I've used human readers, scanned books, used RFB&D, and >>>>>>>>> worked with disabled students services to get eTextBooks from >>>>>>>>> publisher. All these things served their purposes and time, and >>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>> time to move on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In fall of 2010, I broke away from the status quo, which includes: >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> using RFB&D, not scanning textbooks, and not having to be so >>>>>>>>> reliant >>>>>>>>> on disabled student services. Two companies have made this >>>>>>>>> possible: >>>>>>>>> CourseSmart and AMAC. This has allowed equal access, independence, >>>>>>>>> and a true forward studying experience. It's never been possible >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> us as blind students, instructors, or even providers to use an >>>>>>>>> innovative eTextBook service. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * CourseSmart for mainstream, accessible, and highly marked-up 60% >>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> eTextBooks >>>>>>>>> * Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) for affordable, >>>>>>>>> high-quality, >>>>>>>>> and efficient braille and tactile graphics for textbooks, exams, >>>>>>>>> handouts, assignments, etc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.CourseSmart.com is a mainstream accessible eTextBook >>>>>>>>> rental >>>>>>>>> service, which all students can take advantage of. This includes >>>>>>>>> students with or without print-related disabilities (blind, low >>>>>>>>> vision, learning disabled). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.amac.uga.edu Alternative Media Access Center (AMAC) will >>>>>>>>> work with institutions to provide braille, tactile graphics, and >>>>>>>>> remediated eText. AMAC has very high-quality and standards and will >>>>>>>>> lift >>>>>>>>> stress off DSS, allowing DSS to focus on providing service, not >>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is the now and future of how students, instructors, and all in >>>>>>>>> post-secondary education will obtain, work with, and enjoy >>>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>>> course material. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gwblindman1%40gwblindman.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin Fjelsted >> B Harris, Inc. >> http://www.bharrisinc.com >> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted >> Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 >> Direct: 612.424.7332 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com > -- Kevin Fjelsted B Harris, Inc. http://www.bharrisinc.com kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 Direct: 612.424.7332 From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 3 03:21:34 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 22:21:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> References: <5A0FCDFBF2FC429089EAB51DADECA7DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley: The law, for what it is worth, says that the programs and services of a covered entity must be accessible, but it doesn't mandate how. So it is not as specific as to say that handout A must be in Braille, or handout B must be recorded... These can be complex situations, and there isn't a one size fits all occasions answer. Might it be better to talk to a professor instead of sending e-mail"? It is harder to turn down, or ignore a person. With a handout to a group, maybe the group can read it to you, or you can work with the group in some manner to get the info. It seems to me that you will have to be creative and flexible. Yes there is the law, and in the long run it will help, but in specific instances it won't matter. Thus the flexibility and creativity. Dave At 03:22 PM 4/1/2011, you wrote: >Hi all, >I do what I can to keep up. >You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think >that scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these >are tables and sometimes on colored paper. > >I do indeed do things myself. But why don't I have the right to >have a level playing field? >I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but >I also remind them either in email or after class to send me >information. Most professors have been good in the past; in fact >most classes rely on lecture/discussion so handouts and print >matterial are really not an issue. >Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor >teaches so many classes he doesn't respond to emails. > >I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an >agreed upon accomodation is not unreasonable. >I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access? I >was in a journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out >to read in groups. I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or >something. Anyway, this was not accessible and reading two or three >days later frankly doesn't help me in class. >So I advocated and had it read to me! But had I had it ahead of >time I wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading. >We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to >hear us. Then we came back >and I joined my group. I believe that such accomodations help us >and we can compete equally then. >Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have >stuff in accessible format? > >Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing. >You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites >need to be accessible and other course content and then do not >support something like accessible handouts. >Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra >steps, and have a reader read you inaccessible content. >Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all. > >Ashley >-----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter >Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. > >First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling >our own assignments and materials. As students, we need to be >responsible. If you have access to the technology, scanning material, >searching for material and staying current with new options for >accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work. Yes, >there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is >generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary. > >Instructors have a lot on their plate. They are teaching multiple >classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which >involves families and activities. And, professors must continue to >publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are >doing their own research and work. > >To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what >they need to do for you. If you feel you are not receiving material in >time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital >information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either >in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns. Even if you >have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will >still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or >PP presentations. > >Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how >often have you contacted the instructor? Either via email or in person? >And have you been specific in what you require? In my experience, if I >do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it >is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot, >and I did not remind them. Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not >the only student that instructor has to think about. *smile* > >And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone >has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions >especially if the material is not accessible. This lack of >communication falls on you. The next time an instructor does this, just >ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet, >and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies. > >I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your >own notes. Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I >took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never >encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not >follow along with a lecture and PP slides. > >I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material. I too take >print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies. >And as a creative writing major taking studios based around >workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan >student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic >copies. Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I >needed on time. And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a >situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the >material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and >other formatting issues. > >It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful >in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have >what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work. Is >it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for >sighted students? No. And should schools provide everything and >anything we need on time and accessibly? Yes. The truth is, though, >that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to >everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it >isn't fair. And how proactive are we being? Don't let others be the >middle man with your academic life-- well, just life. Do as much as you >can on your own. > >I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to >keep tabs on what I need and when I need it. In fact, my DSO requires >students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need. >Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course >material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO. >Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been >seeking textbooks out on my own when I can. > >I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning. I prefer to do >it on my own. And I actually tell professors to do everything the way >they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class >are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this. This includes >requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent >electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures >or discussions. > >I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting >on a trend I see among too many students. Life isn't fair nor is it >perfect. This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not. > >As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves >and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more >work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for >us. > >Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and >there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services >essential for us as students. In my experience, though, I see too many >students fail to understand the part they should play in their life. We >have to verbalize every need. Do not expect others to know, or >understand, what you need, especially instructors. They should comply >and be willing to help, but they are only human. Communicate your >specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time. > >Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student. Learn to >rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is >life. If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or >communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation. >Have you done everything necessary on your end? Trust me, this will >make you a much happier student. > >If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are >in the workforce. *smile* > >Bridgit > >Message: 2 >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500 >From: "Sean Whalen" >To: >Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc. >Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me >what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have >the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long >books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I >did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how >horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could >have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base >here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves >if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it >isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the >thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while >we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it >actually exists. > > > >Sean From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 03:52:55 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:52:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I mostly do, too. Certainly we need to stand up for our legal rights. And, were I in her situation, I'd be frustrated, too. My other emails on this topic weren't directed at Ashley, but were in response to a disturbing trend I'm seeing among us as blind students. Heck, I know sometimes I complain too much sometimes when I don't get the materials I need from the DSS office or professors or whatever, but in the time it takes for me to whine about it I could easily do the work another way. If anything, my irritation is caused by my own laziness which too often rears its ugly head. Take care, Kirt On 4/2/11, humberto wrote: > I totally and completely agree with Ashley about this. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From johnh50 at verizon.net Sun Apr 3 18:04:46 2011 From: johnh50 at verizon.net (John Halverson) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 13:04:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] State Department Student Town Hall Message-ID: Hello, Some of you may find this of interest. John Halverson, Ph.D. ---------- From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:39 PM Cc: SanchezV1 at state.gov Subject: State Dept. Student Town Hall on Career Opportunities Good afternoon, Please help disseminate the information below far and wide and direct any questions or inquiries to Vicktery Sanchez (SanchezV1 at state.gov). The Department of State Special Advisor for International Disability Rights, Judith E. Heumann, in conjunction with the Disability and Reasonable Accommodations Division in the Office of Employee Relations, the Recruitment, Examination, and Employment Office in the Bureau of Human Resources, and the Office of Personnel Management, will be hosting a student town hall focusing on career opportunities for students with disabilities in the U.S. Department of State and USAID. Faculty and staff are also invited to attend. It will be held on April 11, 2011 at the U.S. Department of State, Harry S. Truman Building, from 9:30 am – 11:30 am. This event is being held in support of the President’s Executive Order committed to advancing the employment of individuals with disabilities in government. We want to work with your office to promote this event and outreach to students who are interested in careers at the Department of State and other federal agencies, including internships. Students do not need to be international relations majors, but need to at least have an interest in the area. Students, faculty, and staff will leave this event with a greater understanding of the opportunities available to them at the State Department and overall throughout the government. We will have a panel of employees with disabilities who will speak of their experiences, along with an opportunity for students to ask questions and network. We look forward to hearing from you and working with your office on this event. For students interested in attending this event, please inform them that they must RSVP to the contact below, providing the following information: full name, citizenship, date of birth, passport/driver license/social security number and state of issuance. Furthermore, please be advised that only U.S. citizens are eligible for employment or internships at the Department of State. If you have any other questions or comments please do not hesitate to contact Vicktery Sanchez, at 202-647-9734 or at: SanchezV1 at state.gov Sign language interpretation and CART services will be provided. For any other reasonable accommodation requests, please contact Vicktery Sanchez as soon as possible. Vicktery Sanchez Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor Intern for the Special Advisor for International Disability Rights U.S. Department of State DRL, Room 7802 SanchezV1 at state.gov From kobycox at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 19:54:46 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 14:54:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Room mates for the NFB national convention Message-ID: <1216C935-5157-478C-A03D-03E2CC61F444@gmail.com> Hello all, I'm looking for a room mate for the NFB national convention in Florida. I've already got the hotel room booked from July 3rd to July 9th. If you are intrested please email me off list. My email address is: kobycox at gmail.com Thanks, Koby. Sent from my iPhone From amin.m111 at live.com Mon Apr 4 01:11:51 2011 From: amin.m111 at live.com (Nick M) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:11:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Attention central Florida, south Florida, and UNC-Charlotte students Message-ID: Hi, My name is Nick. I am currently contemplating going to the University of Central Florida, The University of South Florida, or the University of North Carolina Charlotte for graduate school. I am trying to make the most informed decision, and I believe that as a blind person knowing about the campus from a blind person’s perspective is very important in this situation. I was wondering if any of you attend (or have attended) any of these three universities. If you do could you tell me a little bit about your experience? I am primarily wondering about disability services (I use Braille and e-text at my current institution), but any information is helpful. Thank you so much! This really means a lot to me. Thanks, Nick From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 20:21:08 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:21:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Bookshare Conference Call for Students! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For your information: you should really check this out! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Allison Hilliker Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:04:04 -0700 Subject: Bookshare Conference Call for Students! To: "dsmithnfb at gmail.com" Conference Call for Students Who Are Blind or Low Vision - April 18, 2011 Making Bookshare Work for You! Bookshare is an online digital library that is free for students in the United States. High school, college, and graduate students all find the collection to be an indispensible resource when it comes to finding the books they need for schoolwork and for pleasure reading. Join the conversation with Allison Hilliker, Bookshare Collection Development Associate and Cherie Miller, Bookshare's University Program Manager. We will be taking your questions live throughout the discussion. There is no need to pre-register for the event, just call in and join us. - Sunday, April 18, 2011, 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm PST - Phone number to call: 866-210-1669. Pass code: 656 During this discussion you will learn: * What Bookshare is and how you can become a member * How Bookshare can make your school work and pleasure reading much easier * About our new Read2Go app; an app specifically designed for the Apple iOS that will allow for quick download and easy reading of Bookshare books on the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone * How to use Bookshare most efficiently and effectively with your notetaker or digital book player. We look forward to talking with you on April 18! -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 21:27:24 2011 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 14:27:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Arizona Spring Seminar! Message-ID: <4D9A37BC.5070800@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, Calling all students! The time has come for the Arizona association of blind students Spring Seminar. This is the time for you to network with other students,find a new way to cope with highschool or college issues, and, of course, learn about cutting-edge assistive technology and how to use it. we will also discuss accessible books, employment, training centers and why they might be for you, scholarship oppertunities and much much more. AABS will be selling some delicious homemade goodies for 50 cents and we will accept donations, so bring your money! If you want to join us please be at: The Arizona Public Service (APS) building in Tower 2 of the Arizona Center located at 400 E. Van Buren ave. Saturday, April 9 at 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. There will be a social activity after the seminar for all who want to join us for some food and fun. Call Darrell Shandrow at 480-389-5627 or email darrell.shandrow at gmail.com for more information. Hope to see you there. Regards, Darrell Shandrow Secretary Arizona Association of Blind Students From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 01:07:46 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:07:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Revised Bookshare Call Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please note-the call will take place on Sunday, April 17-not Monday the 18th. Arielle ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Allison Hilliker Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 17:24:38 -0700 Subject: Revised Bookshare Call Announcement To: Arielle Silverman Conference Call for Students Who Are Blind or Low Vision - April 17, 2011 Making Bookshare Work for You! Bookshare is an online digital library that is free for students in the United States. High school, college, and graduate students all find the collection to be an indispensible resource when it comes to finding the books they need for schoolwork and for pleasure reading. Join the conversation with Allison Hilliker, Bookshare Collection Development Associate and Cherie Miller, Bookshare's University Program Manager. We will be taking your questions live throughout the discussion. There is no need to pre-register for the event, just call in and join us. - Sunday, April 17, 2011, 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm PST - Phone number to call: 866-210-1669. Pass code: 656 During this discussion you will learn: * What Bookshare is and how you can become a member * How Bookshare can make your school work and pleasure reading much easier * About our new Read2Go app; an app specifically designed for the Apple iOS that will allow for quick download and easy reading of Bookshare books on the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone * How to use Bookshare most efficiently and effectively with your notetaker or digital book player. We look forward to talking with you on April 17! -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 01:14:41 2011 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 18:14:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Arizona Blind Students Spring Seminar - CORRECTED LOCATION! Message-ID: <4D9A6D01.30804@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, Calling all students! The time has come for the Arizona association of blind students Spring Seminar. This is the time for you to network with other students,find a new way to cope with highschool or college issues, and, of course, learn about cutting-edge assistive technology and how to use it. we will also discuss accessible books, employment, training centers and why they might be for you, scholarship oppertunities and much much more. AABS will be selling some delicious homemade goodies for 50 cents and we will accept donations, so bring your money! If you want to join us please be at: The Arizona Public Service (APS) building in Tower 2 of the Arizona Center located at 400 N. 5th Street, Saturday, April 9 at 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. There will be a social activity after the seminar for all who want to join us for some food and fun. Call Darrell Shandrow at 480-389-5627 or email darrell.shandrow at gmail.com for more information. Hope to see you there. Regards, Darrell Shandrow Secretary Arizona Association of Blind Students From JFreeh at nfb.org Tue Apr 5 01:31:54 2011 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:31:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?NFB-NEWSLINE=AE_Now_Available_in_South__C?= =?iso-8859-1?q?arolina?= Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Parnell Diggs, President National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina (803) 254-3777 Parnell at sccoast.net NFB-NEWSLINE® Now Available in South Carolina Free Service Offers Independent News Access to Blind and Print-Disabled South Carolina Residents Columbia, South Carolina (April 4, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina is pleased to announce today the availability of NFB-NEWSLINE® to all blind and print-disabled South Carolina residents. NFB-NEWSLINE® is a free service that allows those who cannot read conventional newsprint due to a visual or physical disability to access hundreds of local and national publications as well as job and TV listings over the telephone or via online methods. Using this innovative service, individuals who would otherwise not be able to read a newspaper can access, at any time and at any place, the same essential and entertaining news that their neighbors, classmates, and colleagues enjoy. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “I believe every blind person in America should have access to NFB-NEWSLINE®, and I am thrilled that blind South Carolina residents can now benefit from the availability of this invaluable service. NFB-NEWSLINE® caters to the interests of a wide variety of individuals with local and national publications as well as job and TV listings, allowing blind people, for the first time ever, to read the same edifying and exciting content as their colleagues.” Parnell Diggs, president of the National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina, said: “I love knowing what’s going on in the world around me, and NFB-NEWSLINE® affords me that ability. Further, I very much appreciate that with NFB-NEWSLINE®, blind people are not dependent on others to read the news to us; instead, we have the same flexibility and autonomy that any sighted person would with a traditional print newspaper. Finally, the news is not what someone else decides is important; rather, NFB-NEWSLINE® subscribers get to make the choice of what to read and when to read it.” James Kirby, commissioner of South Carolina’s Commission for the Blind, said: “I am very pleased that NFB-NEWSLINE® is available in South Carolina, as we firmly believe that access equals success for blind individuals. This media mirrors and supports the goals that the Commission for the Blind has for the print-disabled in that it fosters and facilitates independence, choice, and engagement, and assists our consumers in achieving success. The availability of job listings is of special importance to our agency’s consumers, as it offers blind people the ability to independently access thousands of job listings from all across the state, a most valuable tool in securing gainful employment.” NFB-NEWSLINE®, a free service, allows those who cannot read conventional newsprint due to a visual or physical disability to independently access a variety of publications as well as customizable TV and job listings over the telephone, on the Web, or by download to a digital talking book player or MP3-playing device. Offering over three hundred publications­including state and national newspapers and up-to-the-minute wire feeds as well as dozens of magazines­NFB-NEWSLINE® enables blind and physically impaired individuals to get the information they need, when they need it. To learn more about NFB-NEWSLINE®, please visit www.nfbnewsline.org. Those interested in subscribing to the service may fill out the online application form, write to nfbnewsline at nfb.org, or call (866) 504-7300. ### About the National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina The National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina (NFBSC) is a non-profit, private organization of the blind working together to improve the quality of life for all blind people in South Carolina. In order for its influence to be felt on a national level, the NFBSC is affiliated with the National Federation of the Blind, the nation's oldest and largest organization open to all the blind. With more than 2,000 members, the NFBSC consists of 60 affiliated organizations, 57 of which are local chapters located throughout the state. From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 01:43:31 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:43:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Ebook Testers Wanted Message-ID: Hello students, Pearson ( www.pearson.com ) is developing a new interactive math E-book that is accessible with JAWS. They are looking for blind students to test the usability of the product. If interested, please contact Clara van Gerven from the NFB's Access Technology Team at cvangerven at nfb.org Thanks in advance for your help! Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 01:55:12 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:55:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Participants Needed for Research Study Message-ID: Blind Individuals With Recurrent Sleep Problems Needed for Research Study. Individuals who are totally blind with recurrent sleep or napping problems are needed for a survey and/or clinical study. For each completed survey, a donation of $25 will be made to organizations that support people with blindness. Participants in a clinical study will be compensated for their time and effort and will receive study medication, study-related medical evaluation and transportation at no cost. Sleep problems and napping occur in some individuals who are totally blind. This can be caused by the lack of light needed to reset the “body clock”. The result is recurrent sleep problems similar to jet lag. Individuals may qualify for the survey or the clinical study if they: * are between 18 and 75 years of age * are totally blind * have recurrent trouble sleeping at night or experience daytime sleepiness or napping If you are interested Call toll free 1-888-389-7033 from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM M-F ET or email info at non24registry.com -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TrialAnnouncement.doc Type: application/msword Size: 24064 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 02:08:50 2011 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 21:08:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning grade 2 braille in other languages Message-ID: Hi everyone. I am majoring in German. I have been struggling in my literature courses because I would like to read my books in braille, but the technology we have at the university isn't working quickly enough. We have to scan books, which would work if we got them more quickly, and I do not have time to scan them on my own because I am a double major. Also, we are having a hard time getting someone to help proofread. Anyway, my German professor wants me to be able to order German braille books from Germany. I have been to Germany, and I visited a school for the blind there. I read their grade 2 braille, and obviously it made no sense to me. I currently read and write all my German braille in grade one, but I do know they have and use a grade 2 system over there. I just have no idea how to go about learning it. If anyone has any ideas about any of this, please, it would be muchly appreciated. Thanks. -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From dandrews at visi.com Tue Apr 5 02:20:50 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 21:20:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning grade 2 braille in other languages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could contact Ellen Ringlein who runs NFB's Market, she grew up in Germany and moved here as a teenager, so knows both systems. You could reach her at 410-659-9314. Dave At 09:08 PM 4/4/2011, you wrote: >Hi everyone. > >I am majoring in German. I have been struggling in my literature >courses because I would like to read my books in braille, but the >technology we have at the university isn't working quickly enough. We >have to scan books, which would work if we got them more quickly, and >I do not have time to scan them on my own because I am a double major. > Also, we are having a hard time getting someone to help proofread. >Anyway, my German professor wants me to be able to order German >braille books from Germany. I have been to Germany, and I visited a >school for the blind there. I read their grade 2 braille, and >obviously it made no sense to me. I currently read and write all my >German braille in grade one, but I do know they have and use a grade 2 >system over there. I just have no idea how to go about learning it. >If anyone has any ideas about any of this, please, it would be muchly >appreciated. Thanks. From dandrews at visi.com Tue Apr 5 02:38:09 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 21:38:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NBP-Announce: Free new eBraille download - and the chance to win a $5 Starbucks card! Message-ID: > >Onward: How Starbucks Fought for Its Life without Losing Its Soul >By Howard Schultz >Available as a FREE eBraille download only! > >Note: Be one of the first 20 people to download "Onward," by Starbucks >founder and CEO Howard Schulz, and receive a free $5 Starbucks gift card! >Download the book now at: >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/ONWARD.html > >Howard Schultz is the founder and CEO of Starbucks, a company that began as >a small Seattle distributor of coffee beans and ground coffee that he >transformed into what it is today, inspired by the espresso shops he visited >in Italy. In 2000, Schultz stepped down from daily oversight of the company, >only to return eight years later in the midst of the recession and a period >of decline unprecedented in the company's history. > >In this personal, suspenseful, and surprisingly open account, Schultz >details the struggle to maintain the identity of Starbucks while attempting >to branch out into areas such as music sales and hot food, facing >competition and the oversaturation that caused the company the painful >closing of about 600 stores in 2008. This is one of those turnaround stories >that illustrates that a company can overcome its growth pains by returning >to its core principles. > >"The single most important book on leadership and change for our time and >for every generation of leaders. This book is not just required reading, >it's mandatory." >- Warren Bennis, Professor of Business, University of Southern California >and author of Still Surprised: A Memoir of a Life in Leadership > >"Howard Schultz's refreshingly candid, compelling narrative demonstrates >what it takes to lead in these extraordinary times. Onward is a rare >first-hand account at how one of the world's most iconic brands overcame the >challenges that confront us all." >- Indra Nooyi, Chairman and CEO of PepsiCo > >Order this book at: >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/ONWARD.html > >Learn how to download our books at: >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/ebraille.html#download_faq > > >****** >To order any books, send payment to: >NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 >Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. >Or order any of our books online at >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . > >_______________________________________________ >Nbp mailing list >Nbp at nbp.org > >PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message >and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . > >Visit us at http://www.nbp.org From gpaikens at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 04:23:32 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 23:23:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning grade 2 braille in other languages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Julie, I heard of another student getting materials from a German library for the blind. I don't know the name of the library but perhaps check out some of the links on this list of international libraries for the blind: http://blindreaders.info/forlibs.html Hope this helps. -Greg On Apr 4, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I am majoring in German. I have been struggling in my literature > courses because I would like to read my books in braille, but the > technology we have at the university isn't working quickly enough. We > have to scan books, which would work if we got them more quickly, and > I do not have time to scan them on my own because I am a double major. > Also, we are having a hard time getting someone to help proofread. > Anyway, my German professor wants me to be able to order German > braille books from Germany. I have been to Germany, and I visited a > school for the blind there. I read their grade 2 braille, and > obviously it made no sense to me. I currently read and write all my > German braille in grade one, but I do know they have and use a grade 2 > system over there. I just have no idea how to go about learning it. > If anyone has any ideas about any of this, please, it would be muchly > appreciated. Thanks. > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 07:24:53 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 00:24:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs wants to hear about your student events! Message-ID: Greetings Fellow Students! This weekend, (April 8 – 10) is going to be a very active weekend for the national association of blind students and its affiliated student divisions. Many of you are a part of student divisions that have planned meetings at state conventions, or stand-alone seminars of some sort. As such a large surge of state student organization over such a short time doesn’t always happen like this, we really want to capture a sampling of your work in an announcement that we can share with fellow students and federationests across the country. So, if you are planning on having a meeting or activity between Friday April 8 and Sunday April 10, and would like to have it included as a part of this announcement, please contact me at dsmithnfb at gmail.com. When you do contact me, please include the following: 1. Name, date, time of event. 2. Location and how many people you expect to attend, as well as if you will have a nabs rep attending. 3. Name of division president or Coordinator for event. 4. A quote from the division president or event coordinator, conveying your goals, expectations and excitement for the event. To be considered, all submissions must be received no later than Wednesday, April 6 at 5p.m. Pacific Time. Thank you and I look forward to working with you on what will be an amazing display of the work we do as an organized student movement! -- Darian Smith Board member National Association of Blind Students 2nd Vice - President California Association of Blind Students. Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 5 21:05:14 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:05:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridget, That is neat. I should read more memoirs; not sure the difference between a memoir and autobiography. But I enjoy biographies and autobiographies. So all your stories are true. CNF must not be first person. Since it was third person, I wasn't sure if you were the Bridget in the story or whether it was something imagined you were doing. That is an interesting genre form. I think I read one short story by Annie Dillard; I should read more by her and the authors you referenced. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 3:33 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog My stories are true experiences. Creative nonfiction, often refered to as the fourth genre, simply means writing nonfiction with creative tecniques such as dialogue, descriptive language, metaphor, conjecture, scene development, etc. Creative nonfiction is true, but it is written applying the same techniques used in fiction. CNF is a real genre, and it is the specific emphasis of my creative writing degree. Some CNF does take true stories and events and places them into a creative format. For instance, in a memoir writing, I wrote about a situation from my childhood, but wrote it using fairytale language. Once upon a time and all that. All my stories were true, I just wrote it as though I were telling a fairytale. CNF also uses conjecture to attempt to "get inside" the minds of someone else other than the narrator. In my blog, I use metaphor and descriptive language to illustrate my point. I did not make-up what happened, but CNF writing attempts to dig beneath the surface of our lives. It does not just report real-life events, but seeks to gleen understanding and meaning from real-life. Most memoir and personal essay writing, especially nowadays, is considered creative nonfiction. Some of my favorite creative nonfiction writers are Maxine Hong Kingston, David Sedaris, Annie Dillard and Jo Ann Beard. Bridgit Message: 2 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:06:19 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog Message-ID: <9EC4FEC894BB4EE5B6DE008A823EBF8C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, So the Bridget in the story is actually yourself and are mostly true. Creative nonfiction? I haven't seen many writers do that. Nonfiction usually isn't creative. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From graduate56 at juno.com Wed Apr 6 05:22:35 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 23:22:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB State Scholarship reminder. Message-ID: Hello all. This is a reminder to apply for the NFB of Colorado Scholarship. Attached are the documents that pertain to the Scholarship program. The deadline is April 15th. Please distribute to blind students, DSS offices, and teachers of blind students throughout colorado. Thank you. Sincerely, Melissa Green President: Colorado Asociation of Blind Students(CABS) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 SCHOLARFLYER.doc Type: application/msword Size: 89088 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 Application Form.doc Type: application/msword Size: 96768 bytes Desc: not available URL: From graduate56 at juno.com Wed Apr 6 05:38:28 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 23:38:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Student seminar in greeley. Message-ID: <75FC373B07DD4AB793B4C49448AC46C7@melissa> Hello all. This is just a reminder message about the Student seminar taking place in greeley this weekend. For more information and details, please read the flier before my signature. The flier is also attached. Thank you. Are you a student who is blind? Are you a Student who has low-vision? Are you a Student that is blind or visually impaired that is returning to school? Are you a parent or teacher of a blind student? We have a way to help"... The COLORADO ASOCIATION of BLIND STUDENTS Pressents: Broadening the horizons through bringing education to life for the blind and visually impaired student. Whin: April 9, 2011 Where: The campus of northern colorado Michner library Lindou auditorium >From 11:00 till 4:00 Come and join us for refreshments, learning and fun. Sincerely, Melissa Green Colorado Asociation of Blind Students(Cabs) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cabs flier.doc Type: application/msword Size: 22528 bytes Desc: not available URL: From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 14:56:41 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:56:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando Message-ID: Hi All! It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful suggestions too. While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta be a kid when you can, right? Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. What I'm wondering is this. Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from the challenges it presents. Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >From David From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Apr 6 16:13:57 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 11:13:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Creative nonfiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, Creative nonfiction can be any point of view. You can use first-person, second and even third. Conjecture is used too. CNF, again, is about true experiences, but writers are allowed to play with the structure. There is no right or wrong way to write CNF. Changing POV, format and structure allow you to not only construct nonfiction in a more creative way, but it helps to find deeper meanings in our lives, and ultimately reach for a universal. Autobiography begins at point A and tells an entire life story. I was born, I lived, these were my accomplishments. Usually autobiography is told in a linear fashion. Memoir takes specific instances from a persons life. It does not necessarily attempt to tell an entire life. A memoir is a narrative and often the story is not told in a linear arc. It employs dialogue, flashbacks and other literary devices to tell the story. It may begin in the present and move back in time. It is all true, but it is written using fictional techniques. Many memoirs read like novels because of this. Personal essays focus on one event or story that is true. Again, often the same techniques are used, but unlike memoirs, they are not told in a narrative, meaning a personal essay can stand on its own, whereas most memoirs have to be read in its entirety-- it is written as a thread like a novel, but personal essays stand alone. Creative nonfiction is nonfiction, but essentially written with fictional techniques. The focus is on the "show" and not always the "tell." There is no one way to write CNF. I wrote a piece about an experience I had in the hospital, but I told it as though it were my mother's story-- it was conjecture. I basically stepped into her mind, so to speak, and wrote the personal essay in third person limited through my mom's eyes. I do use first person a lot too since this is the traditional method for nonfiction, but I experiment with form and structure a lot too. Some CNF writers stick to more traditional forms, and others are really crazy and out there. The one thing to keep in mind is that anything advertised as creative nonfiction is true, or should be. When dialogue or flashback or conjecture are use, the writer is creating this material to the best of their knowledge and memory. The story is about a writers experience, or about real life situations, they just attempt to bring more creativity to the story. This form, creative nonfiction, has been around for a very long time, but only within the last 30 years or so have people used the term creative nonfiction. It has become a sub-division of nonfiction now usually including memoir, personal essay and literary journalism. I have not looked on Book Share much, but I understand they have quite a few CNF writers, and BARD does have some David Sedaris and Maxine Hong Kingston, but often I can not find what I am looking for on BARD. Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:05:14 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Bridget, That is neat. I should read more memoirs; not sure the difference between a memoir and autobiography. But I enjoy biographies and autobiographies. So all your stories are true. CNF must not be first person. Since it was third person, I wasn't sure if you were the Bridget in the story or whether it was something imagined you were doing. That is an interesting genre form. I think I read one short story by Annie Dillard; I should read more by her and the authors you referenced. Ashley From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 18:54:03 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 14:54:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: www.allears.net This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Hope this Helps, Patrick On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: > Hi All! > It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my > question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful > suggestions too. > While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit > the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta > be a kid when you can, right? > Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours > Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. > What I'm wondering is this. > Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? > What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an > amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so > I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without > getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my > strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from > the challenges it presents. > Looking forward to reading what people have to say. > >From David > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From bfs1206 at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 22:37:59 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 18:37:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been going to the Disney parks since I was a little girl. Some of the people running the rides will let you skip the lines and others won't, it just depends. The rides, shows, and atractions are very spread out, but the little shops and stores are usually very close together; they are usually one right after and right next to one another. It's usually crowded at the parks to the point that sometimes it's hard to move around. Hope this helps. On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: > David, > It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my > senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely > good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to > guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if > you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in > fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or > guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It > jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of > rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney > visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: > www.allears.net > > This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly > detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on > disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other > questions, please don't hesitate to ask. > Hope this Helps, > Patrick > > On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >> Hi All! >> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >> suggestions too. >> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >> be a kid when you can, right? >> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >> What I'm wondering is this. >> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >> the challenges it presents. >> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >> >From David >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 22:51:58 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 18:51:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My map reading skills are so so, but it's good to know they exist. I'll check out that site Patrick, thanks for the info. >From David On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: > David, > It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my > senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely > good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to > guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if > you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in > fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or > guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It > jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of > rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney > visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: > www.allears.net > > This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly > detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on > disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other > questions, please don't hesitate to ask. > Hope this Helps, > Patrick > > On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >> Hi All! >> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >> suggestions too. >> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >> be a kid when you can, right? >> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >> What I'm wondering is this. >> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >> the challenges it presents. >> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >> >From David >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > From davidb521 at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 22:53:35 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 17:53:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4d9cef03.123f970a.20cc.5b2c@mx.google.com> Are these Braille maps actually maps, or more like directions and descriptions? David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Dunphy Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando My map reading skills are so so, but it's good to know they exist. I'll check out that site Patrick, thanks for the info. >From David On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: > David, > It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my > senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely > good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to > guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if > you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in > fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or > guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It > jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of > rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney > visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: > www.allears.net > > This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly > detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on > disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other > questions, please don't hesitate to ask. > Hope this Helps, > Patrick > > On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >> Hi All! >> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >> suggestions too. >> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >> be a kid when you can, right? >> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >> What I'm wondering is this. >> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >> the challenges it presents. >> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >> >From David >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From inland2wards at att.net Wed Apr 6 23:44:09 2011 From: inland2wards at att.net (Anne Ward) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:44:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for our children with visual impairment? Message-ID: This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations firm, but it is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all protest to this firm, at the very least. ----- I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button is not a desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to overcome the stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able to see. The only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling pencils, lightbulbs or brooms door to door. The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public perception of the blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate of capable blind people sky high. I understand the point of the message but for those of us involved in the struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people with disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It undoes so much of the work that we are doing. This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do great harm while trying to do good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU Anne Ward CAPVI From davidb521 at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 00:01:15 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:01:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for ourchildren with visual impairment? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4d9cfedf.05ab960a.547d.3f24@mx.google.com> Unfortunately, there is hardly dialog. Could someone explain this video? David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anne Ward Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 6:44 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for ourchildren with visual impairment? This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations firm, but it is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all protest to this firm, at the very least. ----- I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button is not a desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to overcome the stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able to see. The only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling pencils, lightbulbs or brooms door to door. The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public perception of the blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate of capable blind people sky high. I understand the point of the message but for those of us involved in the struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people with disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It undoes so much of the work that we are doing. This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do great harm while trying to do good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU Anne Ward CAPVI _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 00:49:37 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 20:49:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando In-Reply-To: <4d9cef03.123f970a.20cc.5b2c@mx.google.com> References: <4d9cef03.123f970a.20cc.5b2c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: David: They're big Braille maps located within the guest services building found in each park. They are in print and in Braille, so that a sighted friend can help you if you need it. However, if you want directions/descriptions, I would suggest giving the people at guest services a $20 deposit and asking for the Braille guide book. You pick up your deposit at the end of the day when the book is returned. Also, if you leave a $100 deposit, you can get an audio description device. I didn't use either audio description or the Braille books, so maybe someone else who has can speak on them more clearly. A great source of information will be the cast members (employees) themselves. When I was down at Disney World a few weeks ago, everyone I asked was willing to point my friends and I in the right direction. Sorry if I tend to get a bit long-winded. Hope this Helps, Patrick On 4/6/11, David wrote: > Are these Braille maps actually maps, or more like directions and > descriptions? > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of David Dunphy > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando > > My map reading skills are so so, but it's good to know they exist. > I'll check out that site Patrick, thanks for the info. > >From David > > On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> David, >> It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my >> senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely >> good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to >> guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if >> you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in >> fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or >> guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It >> jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of >> rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney >> visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: >> www.allears.net >> >> This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly >> detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on >> disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other >> questions, please don't hesitate to ask. >> Hope this Helps, >> Patrick >> >> On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >>> Hi All! >>> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >>> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >>> suggestions too. >>> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >>> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >>> be a kid when you can, right? >>> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >>> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >>> What I'm wondering is this. >>> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >>> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >>> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >>> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >>> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >>> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >>> the challenges it presents. >>> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >>> >From David >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail > .com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Thu Apr 7 01:09:25 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:09:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS Message-ID: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Hey, Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Hannah From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Apr 7 01:53:30 2011 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 20:53:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Disney Parks, Behind-the-Scenes Tours References: <4d9cef03.123f970a.20cc.5b2c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006101cbf4c6$988fe460$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, Disney offers a number of "Behind-the-Scenes" tours at their parks in Orlando Florida. "Behind the Seeds" in "The Land" Pavilion at the EPCOT Theme Park is one such tour. It's a "Walk-through" of the various greenhouses where produce and other plants are grown and innovative gardening methods are showcased. One normally sees this part of "The Land" Pavilion on a boat ride but for an extra $20.00 you can take the walking tour of this part of that pavilion. We're considering taking this tour as it may give us the opportunity to touch some of the plants and structures in these greenhouses and other places included on that tour. If this would afford us such an opportunity it would be more meaningful than paying $100.00 for descriptions only. I wonder if the GPS folks have considered creating maps one can load in to their Braille notetaker or Trecker relieving users of these products having to pay that expense? I must say that I take issue with a $20.00 deposit for a Braille map when sighted people can pick them up for free and for keeps. With all of its millions at its disposal Disney should give its blind visitors Braille maps for no charge that they can add to their "Memories for a lifetime." The best solution for access to any place including amusement parks is a mouth and two ears. Others here have also said the same thing all be it indirectly. But back to my main question I'd like to hear if any of you who went to the Disney Parks took those behind-the-scenes tours and what was the experience like? I'll try to gather descriptions of the available Behind-the-Scenes Tours and share them with you all. All the best. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Molloy" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando David: They're big Braille maps located within the guest services building found in each park. They are in print and in Braille, so that a sighted friend can help you if you need it. However, if you want directions/descriptions, I would suggest giving the people at guest services a $20 deposit and asking for the Braille guide book. You pick up your deposit at the end of the day when the book is returned. Also, if you leave a $100 deposit, you can get an audio description device. I didn't use either audio description or the Braille books, so maybe someone else who has can speak on them more clearly. A great source of information will be the cast members (employees) themselves. When I was down at Disney World a few weeks ago, everyone I asked was willing to point my friends and I in the right direction. Sorry if I tend to get a bit long-winded. Hope this Helps, Patrick On 4/6/11, David wrote: > Are these Braille maps actually maps, or more like directions and > descriptions? > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of David Dunphy > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando > > My map reading skills are so so, but it's good to know they exist. > I'll check out that site Patrick, thanks for the info. > >From David > > On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> David, >> It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my >> senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely >> good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to >> guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if >> you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in >> fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or >> guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It >> jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of >> rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney >> visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: >> www.allears.net >> >> This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly >> detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on >> disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other >> questions, please don't hesitate to ask. >> Hope this Helps, >> Patrick >> >> On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >>> Hi All! >>> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >>> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >>> suggestions too. >>> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >>> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >>> be a kid when you can, right? >>> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >>> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >>> What I'm wondering is this. >>> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >>> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >>> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >>> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >>> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >>> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >>> the challenges it presents. >>> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >>> >From David >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail > .com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 7 01:58:36 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 18:58:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS References: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <6819E54CCA1A474BBF6A59E351A87FCA@stanford.edu> Umm, just out of curiosity, why are you required to do this? They did not require that for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hannah" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 6:09 PM Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > Hey, > Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going to > take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the > requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the > proctor can see what I'm writing. > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > Cheers, Hannah > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Apr 7 02:01:02 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:01:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Honestly, I really don't get why they want you to do that. I mean, someone could cheat, but you're taking the SATs. I'd think they'd realize you're more responsible than that. I don't know if there's a way to connect your BN to a monitor. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS Hey, Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Hannah _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Thu Apr 7 02:05:45 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:05:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: When I took my SAT, they did not require me to do this type of thing either. I much respected the rule that electronic devices must be turned off while testing, including my BrailleNote, just like anybody else would turn off their devices. - I guess you need to talk to the SAT college board staff to explain more about your accommodations? From kramc11 at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 02:12:49 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:12:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS References: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <6819E54CCA1A474BBF6A59E351A87FCA@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <65126C40331342BCAC65E67925AB47C2@cadiganpc> If it is the Braille note apex, you can just plug a monitor into the back, and turn on video display in the options menu. I forget exactly ware it is, but the instructions or help file should be able to pinpoint that for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > Umm, just out of curiosity, why are you required to do this? They did not > require that for me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hannah" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 6:09 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > > >> Hey, >> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going >> to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the >> requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the >> proctor can see what I'm writing. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> Cheers, Hannah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 02:15:22 2011 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:15:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <6819E54CCA1A474BBF6A59E351A87FCA@stanford.edu> References: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> <6819E54CCA1A474BBF6A59E351A87FCA@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Nicole, Are you sure they didn't require it? The College Board is really strict on accomidations; they don't want kids to cheat on SAT's and other tests like AP. I just took the SAT's and my accomidations were that I could write the essay portion on my braille note or my laptop. I just did mine on the computer so it was easier for the proctor to see that I wasn't cheating. Like you can't use spell check or anything like that. I have a friend who did his essay on his braille note and he had to hook up to a screen so that they could monitor what he was writing, and this was a couple of years back. It's pretty intense. Maybe the rules changed? On 4/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Umm, just out of curiosity, why are you required to do this? They did not > require that for me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hannah" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 6:09 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > > >> Hey, >> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going to >> >> take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the >> requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the >> proctor can see what I'm writing. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> Cheers, Hannah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 02:32:42 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <8176C1F01F70401188C7941A043084FE@AnjelinaPC> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think there is a way to hook the classic to an external screen. When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI transcribed my response. -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS Hey, Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, Hannah _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From z.dreicer at emissives.com Thu Apr 7 02:32:41 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:32:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS Message-ID: hey, I did the sat and got my scores which I will not say here. I did it without anything connected, but my mobility teacher was in the room and my volume was maxed. Give a call if you need any helpful info. Are you signed up for the sat question of the day? Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannah References: Message-ID: <32B3A7BE775043D0BCF51E1EA4CB1DD2@OwnerPC> I have a little vision and some of it did show begging. There were little actual words so I'm not sure of all the content. Perhaps you are sighted, Ann andcan explain what action was offensive? Its sad when comericials come about that pick on a minority. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anne Ward Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:44 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for ourchildren with visual impairment? This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations firm, but it is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all protest to this firm, at the very least. ----- I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button is not a desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to overcome the stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able to see. The only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling pencils, lightbulbs or brooms door to door. The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public perception of the blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate of capable blind people sky high. I understand the point of the message but for those of us involved in the struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people with disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It undoes so much of the work that we are doing. This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do great harm while trying to do good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU Anne Ward CAPVI _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 7 02:56:50 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:56:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS References: <20110407010919.POYL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote><6819E54CCA1A474BBF6A59E351A87FCA@stanford.edu> Message-ID: It is possible. I took the SAT four or five years ago, so things could have changed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "minh ha" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > Nicole, > Are you sure they didn't require it? The College Board is really > strict on accomidations; they don't want kids to cheat on SAT's and > other tests like AP. I just took the SAT's and my accomidations were > that I could write the essay portion on my braille note or my laptop. > I just did mine on the computer so it was easier for the proctor to > see that I wasn't cheating. Like you can't use spell check or anything > like that. I have a friend who did his essay on his braille note and > he had to hook up to a screen so that they could monitor what he was > writing, and this was a couple of years back. It's pretty intense. > Maybe the rules changed? > > On 4/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Umm, just out of curiosity, why are you required to do this? They did not >> require that for me. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hannah" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 6:09 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >> >> >>> Hey, >>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm going >>> to >>> >>> take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one of the >>> requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a monitor so the >>> proctor can see what I'm writing. >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>> Cheers, Hannah >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 03:21:22 2011 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:21:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando References: <4d9cef03.123f970a.20cc.5b2c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the device you can get from guest services that is like a gps. It will tell you when you're near things and it will give you information on the specific rides/attractions. Some attractions will have audio description from the device as you go through them. Like the pirates of the carribean, it's a small world, and lots more. Hope this helps. Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Molloy" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando > David: > They're big Braille maps located within the guest services building > found in each park. They are in print and in Braille, so that a > sighted friend can help you if you need it. However, if you want > directions/descriptions, I would suggest giving the people at guest > services a $20 deposit and asking for the Braille guide book. You pick > up your deposit at the end of the day when the book is returned. Also, > if you leave a $100 deposit, you can get an audio description device. > I didn't use either audio description or the Braille books, so maybe > someone else who has can speak on them more clearly. A great source of > information will be the cast members (employees) themselves. When I > was down at Disney World a few weeks ago, everyone I asked was willing > to point my friends and I in the right direction. Sorry if I tend to > get a bit long-winded. > Hope this Helps, > Patrick > > On 4/6/11, David wrote: >> Are these Braille maps actually maps, or more like directions and >> descriptions? >> David >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of David Dunphy >> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:52 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando >> >> My map reading skills are so so, but it's good to know they exist. >> I'll check out that site Patrick, thanks for the info. >> >From David >> >> On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>> David, >>> It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my >>> senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely >>> good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to >>> guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if >>> you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in >>> fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or >>> guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It >>> jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of >>> rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney >>> visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: >>> www.allears.net >>> >>> This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly >>> detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on >>> disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other >>> questions, please don't hesitate to ask. >>> Hope this Helps, >>> Patrick >>> >>> On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >>>> Hi All! >>>> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >>>> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >>>> suggestions too. >>>> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >>>> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >>>> be a kid when you can, right? >>>> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >>>> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >>>> What I'm wondering is this. >>>> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >>>> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >>>> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >>>> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >>>> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >>>> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >>>> the challenges it presents. >>>> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >>>> >From David >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail >> .com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 04:21:23 2011 From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:21:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Community Service conference call, Sunday April 10th Message-ID: Hi everyone. There will be another community service conference call taking place this Sunday April 10th at 7:00 EDT. Our guest speaker is Dennis Sumlin, the president of the performing arts division of the National Federation of the Blind. He will be speaking about his community service experience. You shouldn't miss it! Call in information: (218)339-3600 Pass code: 808277 From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Thu Apr 7 04:38:55 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110407043848.SUBI25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come across something soon. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think there is a way >to hook the classic to an external screen. >When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI transcribed >my response. >-----Original Message----- >From: Hannah >Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >Hey, >Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >Any help would be greatly appreciated! >Cheers, Hannah >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac 26%40gmail.com >Anjelina >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 05:10:03 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:10:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for ourchildren with visual impairment? In-Reply-To: <32B3A7BE775043D0BCF51E1EA4CB1DD2@OwnerPC> References: <32B3A7BE775043D0BCF51E1EA4CB1DD2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: So...what exactly's going on with this. I was confused, being totally blind and all, but for you to get this insensed about it there must be a lot more going on I can't figure. On 4/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I have a little vision and some of it did show begging. > There were little actual words so I'm not sure of all the content. > Perhaps you are sighted, Ann andcan explain what action was offensive? > Its sad when comericials come about that pick on a minority. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anne Ward > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:44 PM > To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com > Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for > ourchildren with visual impairment? > > This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations firm, but it > is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all protest to > this firm, at the very least. > ----- > > I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button is not a > desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to overcome the > stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able to see. The > only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling pencils, > lightbulbs or brooms door to door. > > The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public perception of the > blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate of capable > blind people sky high. > > I understand the point of the message but for those of us involved in the > struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people with > disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It undoes so > much of the work that we are doing. > > This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do great harm > while trying to do good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU > > Anne Ward > CAPVI > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From z.dreicer at emissives.com Thu Apr 7 12:46:09 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 06:46:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The subscribe page is list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co m Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannah References: <4d9cef03.123f970a.20cc.5b2c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, There are some rides where you may want the audio description device, but there are others where you really don't need it. Take my favorite ride, Soarin, for example. It's all sensory, so you really don't need audio description. Just sit back, feel wind on your face, and smell the oranges as you fly over California. Patrick On 4/6/11, Hope Paulos wrote: > Don't forget the device you can get from guest services that is like a gps. > It will tell you when you're near things and it will give you information on > the specific rides/attractions. Some attractions will have audio description > from the device as you go through them. Like the pirates of the carribean, > it's a small world, and lots more. > Hope this helps. > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Molloy" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 8:49 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando > > >> David: >> They're big Braille maps located within the guest services building >> found in each park. They are in print and in Braille, so that a >> sighted friend can help you if you need it. However, if you want >> directions/descriptions, I would suggest giving the people at guest >> services a $20 deposit and asking for the Braille guide book. You pick >> up your deposit at the end of the day when the book is returned. Also, >> if you leave a $100 deposit, you can get an audio description device. >> I didn't use either audio description or the Braille books, so maybe >> someone else who has can speak on them more clearly. A great source of >> information will be the cast members (employees) themselves. When I >> was down at Disney World a few weeks ago, everyone I asked was willing >> to point my friends and I in the right direction. Sorry if I tend to >> get a bit long-winded. >> Hope this Helps, >> Patrick >> >> On 4/6/11, David wrote: >>> Are these Braille maps actually maps, or more like directions and >>> descriptions? >>> David >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of David Dunphy >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:52 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando >>> >>> My map reading skills are so so, but it's good to know they exist. >>> I'll check out that site Patrick, thanks for the info. >>> >From David >>> >>> On 4/6/11, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>>> David, >>>> It's interesting that you bring this up. I just got back from my >>>> senior trip to Disney World a couple of weeks ago. Disney is extremely >>>> good about helping not just blind people, but everyone. If you go to >>>> guest services, there are Braille maps that you can look at. Also, if >>>> you don't want to have a two-hour wait for rides (yes, some are in >>>> fact two hours), I suggest you look into getting a GAC. The GAC or >>>> guest assistance card is a pass that you get at guest services. It >>>> jumps you ahead in any line and gets you in the front row of >>>> rides/shows. One site to check out if you're a first-time Disney >>>> visitor (aside from the Disney site itself), is: >>>> www.allears.net >>>> >>>> This site was incredibly useful to me, because it gives incredibly >>>> detailed descriptions of every ride. There is also a section on >>>> disabilities which was definitely worth a read. If you have any other >>>> questions, please don't hesitate to ask. >>>> Hope this Helps, >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> On 4/6/11, David Dunphy wrote: >>>>> Hi All! >>>>> It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my >>>>> question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful >>>>> suggestions too. >>>>> While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit >>>>> the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta >>>>> be a kid when you can, right? >>>>> Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours >>>>> Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. >>>>> What I'm wondering is this. >>>>> Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? >>>>> What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an >>>>> amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so >>>>> I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without >>>>> getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my >>>>> strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from >>>>> the challenges it presents. >>>>> Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >>>>> >From David >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail >>> .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmai >>> l.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co >>> m >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 17:25:32 2011 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 13:25:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] University of phoenix Message-ID: Hello all. I just found out 2 days ago that I was accepted at UMass Boston to receive my Masters degree in teaching the blind/visually impaired. I need to take a course, though, that University of Phoenix offers. Can someone who has taken courses from them either reply to me on list or write me privately and describe their experience as far as accessibility is concerned? Thank you! Hope Paulos From bfs1206 at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 22:25:18 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:25:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <4d9db2b4.84b3ec0a.0b9e.7a90SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4d9db2b4.84b3ec0a.0b9e.7a90SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I was never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at all. On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: > hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The > subscribe page is > list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co > m > > Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hannah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > > I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but > haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come > across something soon. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > > Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think > there is a way > to hook the classic to an external screen. > When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI > transcribed > my response. > -----Original Message----- > From: Hannah > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > > Hey, > Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm > going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one > of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a > monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > Cheers, Hannah > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac > 26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer > %40emissives.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 7 23:18:22 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 16:18:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT Rules Re: SAT ACCOMMODATIONS References: <4d9db2b4.84b3ec0a.0b9e.7a90SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <13713C2D04354E48B5DCC8B529C3B3B2@stanford.edu> I feel like this list has been through similar conversations about the College Board before. And, frankly, we should not have to be having these. What is and is not allowed on standardized tests should be written down and available to the public, and, when there is a major change, people should have a way of finding out. Based on responses to this thread, it sounds like people have had very different experiences, and I am interested in knowing why. In my humble opinion, unless a person has a very different disability or something different about his/her situation, most of the experience and rules for students who are blind/visually impaired should be the same. Is there anyone who can shed more light (no pun intended) on this topic? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brianna Scerenscko" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I was > never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at all. > > > On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >> subscribe page is >> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >> m >> >> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Hannah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >> across something soon. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anjelina" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >> there is a way >> to hook the classic to an external screen. >> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >> transcribed >> my response. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hannah >> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >> >> Hey, >> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> Cheers, Hannah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >> 26%40gmail.com >> >> >> Anjelina >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >> %40emissives.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Brianna Scerenscko > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 00:19:16 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 20:19:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT Rules Re: SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <13713C2D04354E48B5DCC8B529C3B3B2@stanford.edu> References: <4d9db2b4.84b3ec0a.0b9e.7a90SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <13713C2D04354E48B5DCC8B529C3B3B2@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I don't think the rules vary, but the implementation. The rules usually change according to whom ever does the test, according to their interpretation. Hope that makes sense. Jorge On Apr 7, 2011, at 7:18 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I feel like this list has been through similar conversations about the College Board before. And, frankly, we should not have to be having these. What is and is not allowed on standardized tests should be written down and available to the public, and, when there is a major change, people should have a way of finding out. Based on responses to this thread, it sounds like people have had very different experiences, and I am interested in knowing why. In my humble opinion, unless a person has a very different disability or something different about his/her situation, most of the experience and rules for students who are blind/visually impaired should be the same. Is there anyone who can shed more light (no pun intended) on this topic? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brianna Scerenscko" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > > >> I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I was >> never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at all. >> >> >> On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >>> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >>> subscribe page is >>> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >>> m >>> >>> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Hannah >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list>> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>> >>> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>> across something soon. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Anjelina" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>> >>> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>> there is a way >>> to hook the classic to an external screen. >>> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>> transcribed >>> my response. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Hannah >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>> >>> Hey, >>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>> Cheers, Hannah >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>> 26%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> Anjelina >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >>> %40emissives.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Brianna Scerenscko >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 8 00:19:40 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:19:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110408001928.OTBM25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Brianna, Can you talk me through on how to connect my Bn to a monitor? Hannah >----- Original Message ----- >From: Brianna Scerenscko To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:25:18 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I was >never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at all. >On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >> subscribe page is >> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >> m >> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Hannah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >> across something soon. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anjelina" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >> there is a way >> to hook the classic to an external screen. >> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >> transcribed >> my response. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hannah >> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >> Hey, >> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> Cheers, Hannah >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >> 26%40gmail.com >> Anjelina >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >> %40emissives.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 0gmail.com >-- >Brianna Scerenscko >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bfs1206 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 01:38:37 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 21:38:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110408001928.OTBM25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110408001928.OTBM25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: I can try. I only did it once and I had help from my vision teacher. Do you have the drivers already installed on your computer? If you don't, you have to go to the Human Where web site and find the correct ones that are for your Braille Note and downlode them. On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: > Brianna, > Can you talk me through on how to connect my Bn to a monitor? > Hannah > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Brianna Scerenscko >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Date sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:25:18 -0400 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I > was >>never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at > all. > > >>On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >>> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >>> subscribe page is >>> > list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >>> m > >>> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Hannah >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list>> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, > but >>> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>> across something soon. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Anjelina" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>> there is a way >>> to hook the classic to an external screen. >>> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>> transcribed >>> my response. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Hannah >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > >>> Hey, >>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? > I'm >>> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; > one >>> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>> Cheers, Hannah > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>> 26%40gmail.com > > >>> Anjelina > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>> for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info >>> for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >>> %40emissives.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 > 0gmail.com > > > >>-- >>Brianna Scerenscko > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 8 01:54:21 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:54:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110408015408.QOTG25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Ummmm I don't think so. I'll work on that, but they did say that I can't use my personal computer so I guess I'll have to install it at school on Tuesday. Thanks though; I think I got it from here. Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Brianna Scerenscko To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 21:38:37 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >I can try. I only did it once and I had help from my vision teacher. >Do you have the drivers already installed on your computer? If you >don't, you have to go to the Human Where web site and find the correct >ones that are for your Braille Note and downlode them. >On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >> Brianna, >> Can you talk me through on how to connect my Bn to a monitor? >> Hannah >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Brianna Scerenscko >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>Date sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:25:18 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I >> was >>>never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at >> all. >>>On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >>>> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >>>> subscribe page is >> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >>>> m >>>> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Hannah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, >> but >>>> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>> across something soon. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Anjelina" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>> there is a way >>>> to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>> transcribed >>>> my response. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Hannah >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>> Hey, >>>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? >> I'm >>>> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; >> one >>>> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>> Cheers, Hannah >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>> 26%40gmail.com >>>> Anjelina >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >>>> %40emissives.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>-- >>>Brianna Scerenscko >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 0gmail.com >-- >Brianna Scerenscko >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 8 02:22:20 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 22:22:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110408015408.QOTG25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110408015408.QOTG25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <747341BE254945F199DED542EEA04BA0@OwnerPC> Those of you who can use computers or braille devices are lucky. When I took standardized tests, I had to type my essay by hand on the brailler! -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 9:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Ummmm I don't think so. I'll work on that, but they did say that I can't use my personal computer so I guess I'll have to install it at school on Tuesday. Thanks though; I think I got it from here. Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Brianna Scerenscko To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 21:38:37 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >I can try. I only did it once and I had help from my vision teacher. >Do you have the drivers already installed on your computer? If you >don't, you have to go to the Human Where web site and find the correct >ones that are for your Braille Note and downlode them. >On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >> Brianna, >> Can you talk me through on how to connect my Bn to a monitor? >> Hannah >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Brianna Scerenscko >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>Date sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:25:18 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I >> was >>>never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at >> all. >>>On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >>>> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >>>> subscribe page is >> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >>>> m >>>> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Hannah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, >> but >>>> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>> across something soon. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Anjelina" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>> there is a way >>>> to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>> transcribed >>>> my response. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Hannah >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>> Hey, >>>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? >> I'm >>>> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; >> one >>>> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>> Cheers, Hannah >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>> 26%40gmail.com >>>> Anjelina >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >>>> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >>>> %40emissives.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>-- >>>Brianna Scerenscko >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 0gmail.com >-- >Brianna Scerenscko >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Fri Apr 8 03:09:31 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to do that, you can do the following: 1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and read about the sections for visual display. 2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might want to download an application and install it on your computer. for more information, you can visit: http://humanware.com/support/ search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is a file that you can download that has the correct settings for the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around that web site and find out what's available. 3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing list, send a blank email to: Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the subject line, as always. 4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you have been really approved to have such accommodation of connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. You might want to see what your testing setting will look like before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. Cheers, Humberto > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Hannah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing listDate sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >across something soon. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Anjelina" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >there is a way >>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >transcribed >>my response. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Hannah >>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>Hey, >>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>Cheers, Hannah >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >26%40gmail.com >>Anjelina >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >cious%40suddenlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Fri Apr 8 03:09:36 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want forourchildren with visual impairment? Message-ID: My assumption is that the video is inaccessible and doesn't have audio descriptions because they are only targeting sighted people in this approach. They probably either don't want blind people to know that they're doing this kind of advertising and posting this video about stereotypical misconceptions about blind people because they probably know that the blind people who want to view the video are going to be put down. That is why I think the video is inaccessible to us and without descriptions. This is just my opinion on this. Any thoughts? > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:10:03 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want forourchildren with visual impairment? >So...what exactly's going on with this. I was confused, being totally >blind and all, but for you to get this insensed about it there must be >a lot more going on I can't figure. >On 4/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> I have a little vision and some of it did show begging. >> There were little actual words so I'm not sure of all the content. >> Perhaps you are sighted, Ann andcan explain what action was offensive? >> Its sad when comericials come about that pick on a minority. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anne Ward >> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:44 PM >> To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com >> Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want for >> ourchildren with visual impairment? >> This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations firm, but it >> is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all protest to >> this firm, at the very least. >> ----- >> I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button is not a >> desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to overcome the >> stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able to see. The >> only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling pencils, >> lightbulbs or brooms door to door. >> The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public perception of the >> blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate of capable >> blind people sky high. >> I understand the point of the message but for those of us involved in the >> struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people with >> disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It undoes so >> much of the work that we are doing. >> This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do great harm >> while trying to do good. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU >> Anne Ward >> CAPVI >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 8 03:50:23 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:50:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110408035010.QIOI25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Humberto, Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but I already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a monitor! Cheers, Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: humberto To: National Association of Blind Students mailing listDate sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >do that, you can do the following: >1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >read about the sections for visual display. >2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >want to download an application and install it on your computer. >for more information, you can visit: >http://humanware.com/support/ >search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >that web site and find out what's available. >3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >list, send a blank email to: >Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >subject line, as always. >4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >have been really approved to have such accommodation of >connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. >Cheers, Humberto >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Hannah >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >list>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>across something soon. >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Anjelina" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>there is a way >>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>transcribed >>>my response. >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Hannah >>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>Hey, >>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>Cheers, Hannah >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>26%40gmail.com >>>Anjelina >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>cious%40suddenlink.net >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >5369%40netzero.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 15:11:35 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 09:11:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want forourchildren with visual impairment? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd be more inclined to think they didn't even think about it- rather than purposefully antagonizing a minority group, I'll give these people the benefit of the doubt and assume the thought didn't even cross their minds. Just my take on it. Respectfully, Kirt On 4/7/11, humberto wrote: > My assumption is that the video is inaccessible and doesn't have > audio descriptions because they are only targeting sighted people > in this approach. They probably either don't want blind people > to know that they're doing this kind of advertising and posting > this video about stereotypical misconceptions about blind people > because they probably know that the blind people who want to view > the video are going to be put down. That is why I think the > video is inaccessible to us and without descriptions. This is > just my opinion on this. Any thoughts? > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Kirt Manwaring >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:10:03 -0600 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we > want forourchildren with visual impairment? > >>So...what exactly's going on with this. I was confused, being > totally >>blind and all, but for you to get this insensed about it there > must be >>a lot more going on I can't figure. > >>On 4/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >>> I have a little vision and some of it did show begging. >>> There were little actual words so I'm not sure of all the > content. >>> Perhaps you are sighted, Ann andcan explain what action was > offensive? >>> Its sad when comericials come about that pick on a minority. > >>> Ashley > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anne Ward >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:44 PM >>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com >>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want > for >>> ourchildren with visual impairment? > >>> This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations > firm, but it >>> is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all > protest to >>> this firm, at the very least. >>> ----- > >>> I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button > is not a >>> desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to > overcome the >>> stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able > to see. The >>> only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling > pencils, >>> lightbulbs or brooms door to door. > >>> The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public > perception of the >>> blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate > of capable >>> blind people sky high. > >>> I understand the point of the message but for those of us > involved in the >>> struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people > with >>> disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It > undoes so >>> much of the work that we are doing. > >>> This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do > great harm >>> while trying to do good. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU > >>> Anne Ward >>> CAPVI >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 19:13:32 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:13:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT Rules Re: SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: References: <4d9db2b4.84b3ec0a.0b9e.7a90SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <13713C2D04354E48B5DCC8B529C3B3B2@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Nicole and all, I don't think that the rules vary as much as they may appear. When I took the SAT six or seven years ago, the Braille Note Classic was still around, and there was no way to reliably connect it to a computer monitor. I took the test on my Perkins brailler and my TVI transcribed my work. When I took the GRE three years ago, I had a Braille Note MPower, but regretably I did not do enough research and did not make the ETS aware of its ability to connect to a computer monitor. I was therefore given the accomodation of writing my essay on a computer with JAWS installed, which worked out fine. I think that a lot of it depends on what the blind student requests. It is pretty standard practice for the College Board or ETS to give braille tests, extra testing time, and a separate testing room for blind students, but beyond that there is some flexibility in the specific impletation of accomoodations (every student may not have the exact same assistive technology in their disposal, for example). The main concern of the testing agency is that no cheating occurs, so the ability of the proctor to monitor the student's work is extremely important. While we are on the subject of standardized tests, I'm curious about everyone's experiences in securing test preparation materials. I remember finding the braille prep materials provided by the College Board to be very limited, and I could not locate any of the commercially available test prep books in an accessible format. I finally had to buy a print study guide from the bookstore and enlist the help of my family to get it scanned/edited, which was a lot of extra work (especially the math portion). Has this changed in the last few years? Were those of you who took the test more recently able to locate prep materials beyond the one volume provided by the College Board? Katie On 4/7/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > I don't think the rules vary, > but the implementation. > > The rules usually change according to whom ever does the test, according to > their interpretation. > > Hope that makes sense. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 7, 2011, at 7:18 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> I feel like this list has been through similar conversations about the >> College Board before. And, frankly, we should not have to be having these. >> What is and is not allowed on standardized tests should be written down >> and available to the public, and, when there is a major change, people >> should have a way of finding out. Based on responses to this thread, it >> sounds like people have had very different experiences, and I am >> interested in knowing why. In my humble opinion, unless a person has a >> very different disability or something different about his/her situation, >> most of the experience and rules for students who are blind/visually >> impaired should be the same. Is there anyone who can shed more light (no >> pun intended) on this topic? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brianna Scerenscko" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >> >>> I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I was >>> never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at all. >>> >>> >>> On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >>>> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >>>> subscribe page is >>>> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Hannah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> >>>> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>> across something soon. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Anjelina" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> >>>> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>> there is a way >>>> to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>> transcribed >>>> my response. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Hannah >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>> >>>> Hey, >>>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>> Cheers, Hannah >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>> 26%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >>>> %40emissives.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Brianna Scerenscko >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 8 19:30:40 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:30:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT Rules Re: SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: References: <4d9db2b4.84b3ec0a.0b9e.7a90SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com><13713C2D04354E48B5DCC8B529C3B3B2@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <79F3E47A7AAE4495B6BF701CD4A5C573@OwnerPC> Katie, Ditto. When I took it there was also no way to connect the braille device to a computer. I did things the old fashioned way. -----Original Message----- From: Katie Wang Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 3:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT Rules Re: SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Hi, Nicole and all, I don't think that the rules vary as much as they may appear. When I took the SAT six or seven years ago, the Braille Note Classic was still around, and there was no way to reliably connect it to a computer monitor. I took the test on my Perkins brailler and my TVI transcribed my work. When I took the GRE three years ago, I had a Braille Note MPower, but regretably I did not do enough research and did not make the ETS aware of its ability to connect to a computer monitor. I was therefore given the accomodation of writing my essay on a computer with JAWS installed, which worked out fine. I think that a lot of it depends on what the blind student requests. It is pretty standard practice for the College Board or ETS to give braille tests, extra testing time, and a separate testing room for blind students, but beyond that there is some flexibility in the specific impletation of accomoodations (every student may not have the exact same assistive technology in their disposal, for example). The main concern of the testing agency is that no cheating occurs, so the ability of the proctor to monitor the student's work is extremely important. While we are on the subject of standardized tests, I'm curious about everyone's experiences in securing test preparation materials. I remember finding the braille prep materials provided by the College Board to be very limited, and I could not locate any of the commercially available test prep books in an accessible format. I finally had to buy a print study guide from the bookstore and enlist the help of my family to get it scanned/edited, which was a lot of extra work (especially the math portion). Has this changed in the last few years? Were those of you who took the test more recently able to locate prep materials beyond the one volume provided by the College Board? Katie On 4/7/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > I don't think the rules vary, > but the implementation. > > The rules usually change according to whom ever does the test, according > to > their interpretation. > > Hope that makes sense. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 7, 2011, at 7:18 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> I feel like this list has been through similar conversations about the >> College Board before. And, frankly, we should not have to be having >> these. >> What is and is not allowed on standardized tests should be written down >> and available to the public, and, when there is a major change, people >> should have a way of finding out. Based on responses to this thread, it >> sounds like people have had very different experiences, and I am >> interested in knowing why. In my humble opinion, unless a person has a >> very different disability or something different about his/her situation, >> most of the experience and rules for students who are blind/visually >> impaired should be the same. Is there anyone who can shed more light (no >> pun intended) on this topic? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brianna Scerenscko" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >> >>> I have some knologe of how to conect it and how to set it up. I was >>> never required to to use it; in fact, I wasn't aloud to use it at all. >>> >>> >>> On 4/7/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >>>> hannah just send a message to the braillenote list. The >>>> subscribe page is >>>> list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote_list.humanware.co >>>> m >>>> >>>> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Hannah >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>> Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> >>>> I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>> haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>> across something soon. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Anjelina" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>> >>>> Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>> there is a way >>>> to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>> When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>> transcribed >>>> my response. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Hannah >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>> >>>> Hey, >>>> Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>> going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>> of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>> monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>> Cheers, Hannah >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>> 26%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >>>> %40emissives.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Brianna Scerenscko >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bfs1206 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 19:46:22 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:46:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110408035010.QIOI25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110408035010.QIOI25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: You're Welcome Glad I could help. On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: > Humberto, > Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and > it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but I > already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a > monitor! > Cheers, Hannah > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: humberto >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>do that, you can do the following: >>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>read about the sections for visual display. >>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>for more information, you can visit: >>http://humanware.com/support/ >>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>that web site and find out what's available. >>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>list, send a blank email to: >>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>subject line, as always. >>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. > >>Cheers, Humberto > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Hannah >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>list>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>across something soon. > >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>there is a way >>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>transcribed >>>>my response. >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Hannah >>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > >>>>Hey, >>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>Cheers, Hannah > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>26%40gmail.com > > >>>>Anjelina > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>5369%40netzero.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 19:56:55 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: References: <20110408035010.QIOI25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: :) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really reasonable with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional essay I decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran out of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: > You're Welcome Glad I could help. > > On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >> Humberto, >> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but I >> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >> monitor! >> Cheers, Hannah >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: humberto >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>do that, you can do the following: >>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>for more information, you can visit: >>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>list, send a blank email to: >>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>subject line, as always. >>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. >> >>>Cheers, Humberto >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Hannah >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>list>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>across something soon. >> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >> >>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>there is a way >>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>transcribed >>>>>my response. >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >> >>>>>Hey, >>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>Cheers, Hannah >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>26%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>Anjelina >> >> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>cious%40suddenlink.net >> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>5369%40netzero.net >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Brianna Scerenscko > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 8 20:30:30 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110408203012.DUDC25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I took the ACT test a while back and my accommodations were great! I wrote my essay on my BrailleNote, printed it out, and attached it to the rest of my test. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >:) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really reasonable >with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional essay I >decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I >wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran out >of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! >On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: >> You're Welcome Glad I could help. >> On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >>> Humberto, >>> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >>> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but I >>> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >>> monitor! >>> Cheers, Hannah >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: humberto >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list>>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>>do that, you can do the following: >>>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>>for more information, you can visit: >>>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>>list, send a blank email to: >>>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>>subject line, as always. >>>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. >>>>Cheers, Humberto >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Hannah >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>list>>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>>across something soon. >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>>there is a way >>>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>>transcribed >>>>>>my response. >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>>>>Hey, >>>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>Cheers, Hannah >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>>26%40gmail.com >>>>>>Anjelina >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>5369%40netzero.net >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 0gmail.com >> -- >> Brianna Scerenscko >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Apr 8 21:06:55 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 16:06:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello NABSTERS, This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is there a balance in how we use this technology? One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within our reach." One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are employed. In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days of free long distance. The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these other things as time allows. I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and advances in technology, we still have a significant number of intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that more young folks act on it? I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this reliance on technology affecting the situation? What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples mindsets? Bridgit From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 21:26:17 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:26:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridget, I pretty much agree with you completely here. I, for one, am guilty of spending way too much time on facebook, blogs, and blindness mailinglists. *smile* At any rate, I'm not really sure what a good solution would be. The problem of dependence on technology is, as you illuded to earlier, much more widespread than just the blindness community. But unfortunately for blind people, who happen to be a minority which, in general, is already quite dependent on society, the problem gets compounded. Here we have bright, capable blind people who (I'm thinking of specific instances here, I'm not implying all blind people are like this) who aren't really sure how much they can contribute to society. When you add in the fact that a disproportionately large number of blind people get the basic support they need through SSI, the motivation to get employed can all but disappear. Here's an idea I just had- I'm not advocating this, but I'd be interested to see what people think. What if SSI were restricted to students, or people actively seeking employment? What if, in order to qualify, you either need to be attending a school of some kind, either university or trade, or show that you turn in at least 1 job application/resume every month? Maybe if that idea's too agressive, what if SSI were limited to students or graduates of a post-high school institution? That's all purely hypothetical, it would go against our current wellfare state mindset...but you know what? I'm almost sold on the idea of restricting SSI to those interested in paying the system back. The more I think about it, the better it's sounding. Best, Kirt P.S. I'm only making this a political discussion because it has to be. On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hello NABSTERS, > > This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and > one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student > opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is > there a balance in how we use this technology? > > One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now > have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, > school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within > our reach." > > One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a > dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still > the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about > our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered > discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are > actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are > employed. > > In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate > who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of > them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by > taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge > across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as > happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. > I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still > other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio > and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days > of free long distance. > > The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of > their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. > They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a > very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, > the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing > to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge > them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" > > Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for > ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate > something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their > own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all > over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in > nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a > diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the > bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of > rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what > anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these > playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life > activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these > other things as time allows. > > I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic > which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently > found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is > our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, > and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? > > Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews > to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing > about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and > advances in technology, we still have a significant number of > intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is > more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us > employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. > > I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of > is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? > If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look > at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious > to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, > and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that > more young folks act on it? > > I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this > post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people > still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this > reliance on technology affecting the situation? > > What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can > be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you > propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples > mindsets? > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 21:30:11 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:30:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110408203012.DUDC25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110408203012.DUDC25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Screw them! You lucky girl. On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: > I took the ACT test a while back and my accommodations were > great! I wrote my essay on my BrailleNote, printed it out, and > attached it to the rest of my test. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Kirt Manwaring >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>:) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really > reasonable >>with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional > essay I >>decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I >>wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran > out >>of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! > >>On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: >>> You're Welcome Glad I could help. > >>> On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >>>> Humberto, >>>> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >>>> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but > I >>>> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >>>> monitor! >>>> Cheers, Hannah > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: humberto >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list>>>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>>>do that, you can do the following: >>>>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>>>for more information, you can visit: >>>>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>>>list, send a blank email to: >>>>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>>>subject line, as always. >>>>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. > >>>>>Cheers, Humberto > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>list>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>>>across something soon. > >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>>>there is a way >>>>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>>>transcribed >>>>>>>my response. >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > >>>>>>>Hey, >>>>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>>Cheers, Hannah > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>>>26%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>Anjelina > > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>5369%40netzero.net > > >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 > 0gmail.com > > > >>> -- >>> Brianna Scerenscko > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 21:50:13 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:50:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of technology in general. As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are hearing your voice. I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. Thanks, Desiree On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hello NABSTERS, > > This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and > one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student > opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is > there a balance in how we use this technology? > > One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now > have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, > school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within > our reach." > > One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a > dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still > the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about > our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered > discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are > actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are > employed. > > In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate > who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of > them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by > taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge > across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as > happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. > I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still > other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio > and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days > of free long distance. > > The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of > their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. > They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a > very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, > the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing > to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge > them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" > > Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for > ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate > something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their > own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all > over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in > nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a > diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the > bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of > rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what > anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these > playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life > activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these > other things as time allows. > > I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic > which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently > found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is > our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, > and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? > > Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews > to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing > about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and > advances in technology, we still have a significant number of > intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is > more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us > employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. > > I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of > is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? > If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look > at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious > to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, > and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that > more young folks act on it? > > I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this > post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people > still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this > reliance on technology affecting the situation? > > What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can > be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you > propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples > mindsets? > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From spangler.robert at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 22:08:47 2011 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 18:08:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Law School Message-ID: <4D9F876F.2020607@gmail.com> Hello all, After another year of my undergrad, I will graduate and will be ready for law school. Can anyone on this list give me any tips on how I should prepare? One thing that concerns me the most is the LSAT - I am curious to hear from other blind people how they prepared for the LSAT and how they worked out accommodations. General comments such as how you coped with the workload and balancing out other life activities would be appreciated too. Thanks, Robby From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 22:17:53 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 18:17:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirt: Agree with you 100%. I think both SSI and any kind of Wellfare program should run like that. Jorge On Apr 8, 2011, at 5:26 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Bridget, > I pretty much agree with you completely here. I, for one, am guilty > of spending way too much time on facebook, blogs, and blindness > mailinglists. *smile* At any rate, I'm not really sure what a good > solution would be. > The problem of dependence on technology is, as you illuded to > earlier, much more widespread than just the blindness community. But > unfortunately for blind people, who happen to be a minority which, in > general, is already quite dependent on society, the problem gets > compounded. Here we have bright, capable blind people who (I'm > thinking of specific instances here, I'm not implying all blind people > are like this) who aren't really sure how much they can contribute to > society. When you add in the fact that a disproportionately large > number of blind people get the basic support they need through SSI, > the motivation to get employed can all but disappear. > Here's an idea I just had- I'm not advocating this, but I'd be > interested to see what people think. What if SSI were restricted to > students, or people actively seeking employment? What if, in order to > qualify, you either need to be attending a school of some kind, either > university or trade, or show that you turn in at least 1 job > application/resume every month? Maybe if that idea's too agressive, > what if SSI were limited to students or graduates of a post-high > school institution? > That's all purely hypothetical, it would go against our current > wellfare state mindset...but you know what? I'm almost sold on the > idea of restricting SSI to those interested in paying the system back. > The more I think about it, the better it's sounding. > Best, > Kirt > P.S. I'm only making this a political discussion because it has to be. > > On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Hello NABSTERS, >> >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 8 22:27:31 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 18:27:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Desiree, I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its durable as you say; third, its is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone for making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage I see is the ability to tone index sections. I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its pretty expensive. They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my old walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Hi, This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of technology in general. As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are hearing your voice. I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. Thanks, Desiree On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hello NABSTERS, > > This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and > one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student > opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is > there a balance in how we use this technology? > > One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now > have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, > school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within > our reach." > > One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a > dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still > the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about > our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered > discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are > actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are > employed. > > In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate > who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of > them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by > taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge > across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as > happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. > I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still > other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio > and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days > of free long distance. > > The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of > their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. > They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a > very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, > the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing > to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge > them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" > > Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for > ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate > something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their > own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all > over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in > nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a > diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the > bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of > rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what > anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these > playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life > activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these > other things as time allows. > > I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic > which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently > found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is > our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, > and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? > > Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews > to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing > about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and > advances in technology, we still have a significant number of > intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is > more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us > employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. > > I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of > is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? > If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look > at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious > to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, > and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that > more young folks act on it? > > I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this > post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people > still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this > reliance on technology affecting the situation? > > What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can > be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you > propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples > mindsets? > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 8 22:29:08 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 18:29:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Law School In-Reply-To: <4D9F876F.2020607@gmail.com> References: <4D9F876F.2020607@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robby, What is your major? I heard the NFB is in a battle over bar exam accomodations; not sure about LSAT though. I hope you get the accomodations you need. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 6:08 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Law School Hello all, After another year of my undergrad, I will graduate and will be ready for law school. Can anyone on this list give me any tips on how I should prepare? One thing that concerns me the most is the LSAT - I am curious to hear from other blind people how they prepared for the LSAT and how they worked out accommodations. General comments such as how you coped with the workload and balancing out other life activities would be appreciated too. Thanks, Robby _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 23:04:36 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 19:04:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are able to write neatly, which is a plus. Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always better. On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Desiree, > I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! > I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. > Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! > I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its > durable as you say; third, its > is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. > I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone for > making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. > I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. > > I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage I > see is the ability to tone index sections. > I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. > I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. > Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its > pretty expensive. > They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my old > walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. > I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. > Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. > Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on > not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of > technology in general. > As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms > of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those > that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as > a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: > simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell > phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on > the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I > don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to > make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl > records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to > that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this > collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I > don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought > laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The > thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take > for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips > that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't > alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to > class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a > deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people > made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be > so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke > (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older > stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less > durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she > thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to > have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? > I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last > statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's > people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. > However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever > comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to > stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? > People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views > that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. > However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. > I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny > my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille > Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running > smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell > phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to > do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make > calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into > the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. > Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, > too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there > is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and > blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that > was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on > downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a > difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the > listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more > in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet > may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world > indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly > endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are > hearing your voice. > I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm > very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people > don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do > hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, > and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. > Thanks, > Desiree > > On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Hello NABSTERS, >> >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 8 23:12:46 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 16:12:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110408231227.GSIA25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Hahaha, thanks. I was pretty suprised that they actually let me do that. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:30:11 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >Screw them! You lucky girl. >On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: >> I took the ACT test a while back and my accommodations were >> great! I wrote my essay on my BrailleNote, printed it out, and >> attached it to the rest of my test. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Kirt Manwaring >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>:) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really >> reasonable >>>with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional >> essay I >>>decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I >>>wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran >> out >>>of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! >>>On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: >>>> You're Welcome Glad I could help. >>>> On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >>>>> Humberto, >>>>> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >>>>> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but >> I >>>>> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >>>>> monitor! >>>>> Cheers, Hannah >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: humberto >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>> list>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>>>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>>>>do that, you can do the following: >>>>>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>>>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>>>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>>>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>>>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>>>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>>>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>>>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>>>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>>>>for more information, you can visit: >>>>>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>>>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>>>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>>>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>>>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>>>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>>>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>>>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>>>>list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>>>>subject line, as always. >>>>>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>>>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>>>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>>>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>>>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>>>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>>>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>>>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. >>>>>>Cheers, Humberto >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>list>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>>>>across something soon. >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>>>>there is a way >>>>>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>>>>transcribed >>>>>>>>my response. >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>>>>>>Hey, >>>>>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>>>Cheers, Hannah >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>>>>26%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>Anjelina >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>>5369%40netzero.net >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>> -- >>>> Brianna Scerenscko >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bfs1206 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 23:48:06 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 19:48:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110408231227.GSIA25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110408231227.GSIA25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: I can use the computer to write my essay as long as spell check is turned off. It's much faster. Good luck with your SAT. On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: > Hahaha, thanks. I was pretty suprised that they actually let me > do that. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Kirt Manwaring >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:30:11 -0600 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>Screw them! You lucky girl. > >>On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: >>> I took the ACT test a while back and my accommodations were >>> great! I wrote my essay on my BrailleNote, printed it out, and >>> attached it to the rest of my test. > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Kirt Manwaring >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>>Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>:) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really >>> reasonable >>>>with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional >>> essay I >>>>decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I >>>>wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran >>> out >>>>of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! > >>>>On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: >>>>> You're Welcome Glad I could help. > >>>>> On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >>>>>> Humberto, >>>>>> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >>>>>> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but >>> I >>>>>> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >>>>>> monitor! >>>>>> Cheers, Hannah > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: humberto >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>> list>>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>>>>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>>>>>do that, you can do the following: >>>>>>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>>>>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>>>>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>>>>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>>>>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>>>>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>>>>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>>>>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>>>>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>>>>>for more information, you can visit: >>>>>>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>>>>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>>>>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>>>>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>>>>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>>>>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>>>>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>>>>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>>>>>list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>>>>>subject line, as always. >>>>>>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>>>>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>>>>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>>>>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>>>>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>>>>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>>>>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>>>>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. > >>>>>>>Cheers, Humberto > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>list>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>>>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>>>>>across something soon. > >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>>>>>there is a way >>>>>>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>>>>>transcribed >>>>>>>>>my response. >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > >>>>>>>>>Hey, >>>>>>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>>>>Cheers, Hannah > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>>>>>26%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>Anjelina > > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>>>5369%40netzero.net > > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 >>> 0gmail.com > > > >>>>> -- >>>>> Brianna Scerenscko > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>> ydude%40gmail.com > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 8 23:55:36 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 19:55:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, True. Whether we had to learn braille or print and write by hand with that system made us disciplined. It made us know punctuation and spelling. Now a days kids type more or text. They are actually writing less and less by hand. For blind kids, much easier to pull out the audio book or put it on the computer rather then having them read hard copy braille. You cannot get the fundamentals of writing by listening. I grew up in the 1990s and had a brailler in class. Later on, I got a notetaker; but I remember the heavy brailler. When I needed to write, I'd have to walk over and get it. It was not on my desk because it would take up so much room! I used my desk to put my book and other material on it. In middle school I got the Braille n' speak. I'm glad I had the experience of hard copy braille more than today's kids. The equavalent is sighted kids see paper less and less; if they read its electronically on a kendall or something. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Hi Ashley, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are able to write neatly, which is a plus. Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always better. On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Desiree, > I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! > I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. > Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! > I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its > durable as you say; third, its > is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. > I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone > for > making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. > I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. > > I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage > I > see is the ability to tone index sections. > I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. > I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. > Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its > pretty expensive. > They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my > old > walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. > I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. > Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. > Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on > not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of > technology in general. > As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms > of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those > that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as > a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: > simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell > phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on > the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I > don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to > make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl > records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to > that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this > collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I > don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought > laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The > thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take > for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips > that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't > alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to > class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a > deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people > made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be > so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke > (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older > stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less > durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she > thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to > have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? > I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last > statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's > people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. > However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever > comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to > stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? > People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views > that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. > However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. > I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny > my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille > Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running > smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell > phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to > do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make > calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into > the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. > Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, > too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there > is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and > blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that > was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on > downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a > difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the > listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more > in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet > may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world > indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly > endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are > hearing your voice. > I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm > very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people > don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do > hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, > and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. > Thanks, > Desiree > > On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Hello NABSTERS, >> >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 8 23:57:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 19:57:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Oh also, handwriting. I can see some so did learn my print letters; they did not teach me cursive though except for my signature. I learned cursive through rehab. You might want to check AFH or AFB for some writing books. I think they make a book of raised letters or something. You can also use writing guides to write straighter. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Hi Ashley, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are able to write neatly, which is a plus. Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always better. On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Desiree, > I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! > I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. > Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! > I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its > durable as you say; third, its > is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. > I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone > for > making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. > I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. > > I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage > I > see is the ability to tone index sections. > I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. > I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. > Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its > pretty expensive. > They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my > old > walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. > I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. > Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. > Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on > not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of > technology in general. > As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms > of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those > that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as > a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: > simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell > phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on > the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I > don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to > make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl > records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to > that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this > collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I > don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought > laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The > thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take > for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips > that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't > alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to > class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a > deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people > made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be > so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke > (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older > stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less > durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she > thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to > have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? > I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last > statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's > people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. > However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever > comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to > stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? > People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views > that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. > However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. > I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny > my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille > Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running > smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell > phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to > do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make > calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into > the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. > Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, > too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there > is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and > blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that > was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on > downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a > difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the > listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more > in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet > may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world > indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly > endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are > hearing your voice. > I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm > very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people > don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do > hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, > and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. > Thanks, > Desiree > > On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Hello NABSTERS, >> >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From th404 at comcast.net Fri Apr 8 23:57:38 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 16:57:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: All of you have raised some excellent points. Like some of you, I believe there will be a place for the old technology, but once the old technology becomes dated and can't be replaced, then you either have to give up, go without or buy things you need from the new technologies. Speaking as one who's been around a while, I believe that the Internet is not going away, and that we're not going to go back completely to the way things were in the past. We need to use the Internet as a tool to spread our message. Like many, I find it a challenge to resist the latest fads and trends, and I fear that swimming with the currents could pull any of us down the wrong road if we don't know how to cope. This, in my view, is why some organizations are struggling to reach the younger generations, especially if the older leaders are not comfortable with Facebook and Twitter. They haven't learned how to use these tools, and are not comfortable, so they avoid them. Yet I feel that's not a good strategy either. I recognize that the iPhone is becoming very popular, and can understand the push to get on the iPhone bandwagon. You see your peers carrying one, and you want one, too. I don't blame anyone for feeling this way; it's not uncommon. Personally, even though I see many students in my area carrying one, I don't need it. Some of you still have an older cell phone which meets your needs, and that's commendable. It also illustrates the need some of you are bringing up: I want a cell phone that only makes calls and nothing else. I know that some years ago, one company tried to market a cell phone like this, but I don't know what became of it. I'm not discounting developments like the KNFB Reader Mobile, since some of you are probably using it for your schoolwork. Someone commented about the young girl who cried because their i phone gave out. I know that recently, for me, my computer died and had to be replaced right in the middle of my coursework. This set me back, but I was able to rely on other tools to get the job done, as well as finding a way to borrow a computer that I could use during the time my unit was being replaced. I still have a classic Braille writer on hand, and that helped me during that time. I also want to bring up a point that sometimes gets overlooked in this discussion: older technology can be a problem to store. I no longer have a cassette player or record player because I live in an apartment, and these take up a good deal of space. I probably will never buy anymore vinyl. Also, hardcopy Braille books can take up space, which is why I'd like to see some technology that will display a full Braille page, yet cost less than current Braille displays. As I think about this, I think we all need to ask ourselves some questions when it comes to buying technology: how much is too much, and where do you draw the line? I know this is hard, especially in the blind commmunity, since you can't learn about, say, the various accessible book readers by going to a local electronics store. Yet, many of us want and need at least one of these units for school, work, and whatever. That is why, though we have our technology center at our national headquarters, there is still the need to have some kind of technology center in every state so that a blind person can learn about what's out there. To those of you who still are using a tape player, I say, use it until it gives out, but if you don't want it, look into the new digital recorders. If you have a Braille writer on hand, stick with it. Someone commented about the popularity of video games, and the potential concerns about kids being overstimulated. I agree that this is troubling, especially since I'm not a gamer myself. I may watch someone playing a game, but I don't go on for hours when I could be doing something better with my time. Like some of you, I'm not one who buys every new piece of technology that comes out. The only reason I have more than one book reader is that I feel a responsibility to the blind community in my area to help them learn about what's out there. Yet I won't buy the iPhone, simply because I have what I need. Could I use a laptop? Sure, but maybe later on. Could I use a cell phone? Maybe later. What about an iPod touch? Well, probably not. Yet the trend towards these technologies is not easy to resist. They're popular, and the push is strong, but I feel that there are times when you need to go against the current. For some of you, this could be one of those times, and for those of you who have an iPhone, I'd say, use it, but always have a backup tool on hand should it break down. This leads me to another observation: Some of you like the old technology for its simplicity. Is it possible to combine the simplicity of the old technologies with the many benefits of the new? I know that some companies are trying, and if any of you have a new NLS talking book player, you admire its simplicity and usefulness. My big recommendation when you look at technology is to buy each tool, based on your needs, and use it for what it does best. There is the quest out there for the perfect device that will do everything equally well, and I believe that while the iPhone comes close, some people would rather not use it, either because they're not comfortable with it or it just doesn't meet their needs. Plus, if you just buy an iPhone and use it for everything, it could break down, and if you don't have an alternative, you could be stuck. That is why I like to have at least two of the book readers on hand, so that if the battery is low on one, the other is ready to go into service. I say all of this to add my thoughts to the dialog, and to hear some of yours. Thanks. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 00:06:22 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 18:06:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Jorge, Here's why I'm not so sure I agree with the wellfare system working the way I described. Or, at least, these are my reservations about it. 1. Should children have to starve because their parents are out of work and not looking for jobs? I know a blind couple in their late twenties who get SSI, and lots of help from their wealthy parents. They have a child. Is it fair to that child for the family not to be financially supported? 2. Lots of blind people (and, I would submit, people in general, but especially blind people) are depressed and feel inadequett. I know blind people who feel that they don't have, and could never have the skills to work, especially with the job market the way it is. I spent some time working at an employment center a couple summers back, calling clients on a massive and impossibly long list and asking them how their job searches were going. More often than not, the responses I got were shame and appathy, with the occasional person scraping by and working like crazy on temporary jobs until something long-lasting could come. Now I'm fully aware that social security is definitely a contributing factor to that appathy- why bother looking for a job if you can survive on unemployment checks every month? But should we let those people who stopped looking for work starve? Especially when they have families? It's a hard question, and it definitely goes beyond the scope of just blind people being hindered by technology. But I'll say this- I definitely think there is a correlation between the number of blind people on social security and the number of blind people not seeking work. And when you throw in moddern technology, which can easily distract you for hours or even days at a time (I would know), it's really a devistating combination for a lot of people. Best, Kirt On 4/8/11, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi Ashley, > I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! > The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also > venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we > probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and > grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact > that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble > in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind > children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a > screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious > disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. > I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering > for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work > because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I > feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon > because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my > life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write > my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a > lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a > concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are > able to write neatly, which is a plus. > Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. > When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the > first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic > as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of > storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they > would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. > Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always > better. > > On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Desiree, >> I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! >> I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. >> Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! >> I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its >> durable as you say; third, its >> is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. >> I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone >> for >> making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. >> I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. >> >> I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage >> I >> see is the ability to tone index sections. >> I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. >> I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. >> Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its >> pretty expensive. >> They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my >> old >> walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. >> I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. >> Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. >> Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> Hi, >> This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on >> not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of >> technology in general. >> As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms >> of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those >> that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as >> a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: >> simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell >> phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on >> the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I >> don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to >> make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl >> records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to >> that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this >> collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I >> don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought >> laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The >> thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take >> for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips >> that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't >> alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to >> class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a >> deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people >> made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be >> so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke >> (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older >> stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less >> durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she >> thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to >> have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? >> I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last >> statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's >> people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. >> However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever >> comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to >> stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? >> People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views >> that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. >> However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. >> I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny >> my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille >> Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running >> smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell >> phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to >> do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make >> calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into >> the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. >> Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, >> too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there >> is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and >> blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that >> was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on >> downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a >> difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the >> listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more >> in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet >> may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world >> indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly >> endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are >> hearing your voice. >> I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm >> very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people >> don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do >> hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, >> and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. >> Thanks, >> Desiree >> >> On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> Hello NABSTERS, >>> >>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>> >>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >>> our reach." >>> >>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >>> employed. >>> >>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >>> of free long distance. >>> >>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>> >>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>> other things as time allows. >>> >>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>> >>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>> >>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>> more young folks act on it? >>> >>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>> >>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>> mindsets? >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sat Apr 9 00:09:37 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 17:09:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS Message-ID: <20110409000918.HLVL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Thanks Brianna. I would use my laptop, but I'm not the fastest typer, so I'd rather use something that I can type fast on because I only have a certain amount of time. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Brianna Scerenscko To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 19:48:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >I can use the computer to write my essay as long as spell check is >turned off. It's much faster. >Good luck with your SAT. >On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: >> Hahaha, thanks. I was pretty suprised that they actually let me >> do that. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Kirt Manwaring >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:30:11 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>Screw them! You lucky girl. >>>On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: >>>> I took the ACT test a while back and my accommodations were >>>> great! I wrote my essay on my BrailleNote, printed it out, and >>>> attached it to the rest of my test. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>>Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>:) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really >>>> reasonable >>>>>with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional >>>> essay I >>>>>decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I >>>>>wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran >>>> out >>>>>of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! >>>>>On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: >>>>>> You're Welcome Glad I could help. >>>>>> On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >>>>>>> Humberto, >>>>>>> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >>>>>>> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but >>>> I >>>>>>> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >>>>>>> monitor! >>>>>>> Cheers, Hannah >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: humberto >>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>> list>>>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>>>>>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>>>>>>do that, you can do the following: >>>>>>>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>>>>>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>>>>>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>>>>>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>>>>>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>>>>>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>>>>>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>>>>>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>>>>>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>>>>>>for more information, you can visit: >>>>>>>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>>>>>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>>>>>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>>>>>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>>>>>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>>>>>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>>>>>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>>>>>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>>>>>>list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>>>>>>subject line, as always. >>>>>>>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>>>>>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>>>>>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>>>>>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>>>>>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>>>>>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>>>>>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>>>>>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. >>>>>>>>Cheers, Humberto >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>>>>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>>>>>>across something soon. >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS >>>>>>>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>>>>>>there is a way >>>>>>>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>>>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>>>>>>transcribed >>>>>>>>>>my response. >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS >>>>>>>>>>Hey, >>>>>>>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>>>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>>>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>>>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>>>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>>>>>Cheers, Hannah >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>>>>>>26%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>Anjelina >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>>>>5369%40netzero.net >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Brianna Scerenscko >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>>> ydude%40gmail.com >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>> cious%40suddenlink.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >> cious%40suddenlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 0gmail.com >-- >Brianna Scerenscko >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 00:25:02 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 18:25:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Tina, I don't want to swim against the current...if we're using the river analogy, I want a good strong raft that won't flip in the rapids. Or a life preserver to keep me up if the raft flips over...you get the point. :) For me, that's braille and my good ol' perkins braille writer. That handy thing always works- I've dragged it through hell and back, several times, and it's always come through. And I will say this. If you like using old technology, and it does what you need it to...more power to ya! But new technology's great! Iphones are amazing. I love my ipod touch. Hurray for innovation and ingenuity-remember there was a time when record players were what ipods are now (minus some bells and whistles, but I digress). Once upon a time, those amateur radios Bridget was talking about were the cutting edge of moddern communication. Progress is good. Invention and updated/new technology is great. If you like using the old stuff...you're in enough of a minority that it won't impeed the advancement of civilization, or anything. :) Use what works best for you. That being said, it better damn well not use you. There's a difference between having an iphone, even using it a lot for fun, and isolating yourself from real face-to-face time with other people because of your new toy. It's one thing to be a technology hobbiest- it's quite another to be a technology slave. I've crossed the line more times than I'd care to admit. Have a great weekend, Kirt On 4/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Jorge, > Here's why I'm not so sure I agree with the wellfare system working > the way I described. Or, at least, these are my reservations about > it. > 1. Should children have to starve because their parents are out of > work and not looking for jobs? I know a blind couple in their late > twenties who get SSI, and lots of help from their wealthy parents. > They have a child. Is it fair to that child for the family not to be > financially supported? > 2. Lots of blind people (and, I would submit, people in general, but > especially blind people) are depressed and feel inadequett. I know > blind people who feel that they don't have, and could never have the > skills to work, especially with the job market the way it is. I spent > some time working at an employment center a couple summers back, > calling clients on a massive and impossibly long list and asking them > how their job searches were going. More often than not, the responses > I got were shame and appathy, with the occasional person scraping by > and working like crazy on temporary jobs until something long-lasting > could come. Now I'm fully aware that social security is definitely a > contributing factor to that appathy- why bother looking for a job if > you can survive on unemployment checks every month? But should we let > those people who stopped looking for work starve? Especially when > they have families? It's a hard question, and it definitely goes > beyond the scope of just blind people being hindered by technology. > But I'll say this- I definitely think there is a correlation between > the number of blind people on social security and the number of blind > people not seeking work. And when you throw in moddern technology, > which can easily distract you for hours or even days at a time (I > would know), it's really a devistating combination for a lot of > people. > Best, > Kirt > > On 4/8/11, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> Hi Ashley, >> I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! >> The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also >> venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we >> probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and >> grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact >> that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble >> in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind >> children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a >> screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious >> disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. >> I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering >> for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work >> because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I >> feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon >> because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my >> life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write >> my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a >> lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a >> concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are >> able to write neatly, which is a plus. >> Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. >> When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the >> first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic >> as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of >> storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they >> would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. >> Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always >> better. >> >> On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Desiree, >>> I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! >>> I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. >>> Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! >>> I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second >>> its >>> durable as you say; third, its >>> is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. >>> I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone >>> for >>> making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. >>> I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. >>> >>> I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An >>> advantage >>> I >>> see is the ability to tone index sections. >>> I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. >>> I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. >>> Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its >>> pretty expensive. >>> They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my >>> old >>> walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. >>> I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. >>> Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. >>> Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. >>> >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >>> Turning into Our Enemy? >>> >>> Hi, >>> This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on >>> not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of >>> technology in general. >>> As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms >>> of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those >>> that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as >>> a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: >>> simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell >>> phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on >>> the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I >>> don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to >>> make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl >>> records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to >>> that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this >>> collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I >>> don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought >>> laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The >>> thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take >>> for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips >>> that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't >>> alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to >>> class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a >>> deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people >>> made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be >>> so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke >>> (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older >>> stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less >>> durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she >>> thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to >>> have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? >>> I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last >>> statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's >>> people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. >>> However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever >>> comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to >>> stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? >>> People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views >>> that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. >>> However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. >>> I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny >>> my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille >>> Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running >>> smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell >>> phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to >>> do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make >>> calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into >>> the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. >>> Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, >>> too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there >>> is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and >>> blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that >>> was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on >>> downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a >>> difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the >>> listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more >>> in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet >>> may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world >>> indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly >>> endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are >>> hearing your voice. >>> I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm >>> very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people >>> don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do >>> hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, >>> and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. >>> Thanks, >>> Desiree >>> >>> On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>> >>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>> >>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >>>> within >>>> our reach." >>>> >>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >>>> still >>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who >>>> are >>>> employed. >>>> >>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >>>> articulate >>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some >>>> of >>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >>>> days >>>> of free long distance. >>>> >>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >>>> willing >>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>> >>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be >>>> all >>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >>>> life >>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>>> other things as time allows. >>>> >>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>> >>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >>>> hearing >>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which >>>> is >>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>> >>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>>> more young folks act on it? >>>> >>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>> >>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>> mindsets? >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > From th404 at comcast.net Sat Apr 9 00:33:40 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:33:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: True enough, and your points are well taken. Like you, I'm not discounting innovation, and I believe that there's a place for both. To me, the key is balance. Thanks. From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 01:04:19 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 21:04:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <80DD36AE55B5429182AF254604FECB52@Cptr233> I wanted to chime in on the technology talk. I am not a traditional student, I am much older than most of you. Lets just say in my 30's. I have three kids who are 14, 13, and 11 years old. I remember the days of the Apple 2E, I remember the days of the first laptops, and the days when we did not have cell phones, or the internet. At one time I was very very techie, but as time goes on, as I get older and older, technology seems to be passing me by. No longer are the days when you can know everything, because frankly there is so much to know now. Like at one time I loved to use instantmessangers, now I can't figure them out. I am not into podcasts or skype. I have no clue what RSS is. I do not listen to internet radio shows. I have a basic knowledge on how to use a stream, but nothing more. Yes I do use facebook to keep in touch with friends. Yes I do use twitter to some extent. I think the Iphones are great, but think they are way way too out there for me at this point. I do have an accessible phone that I can text and surf the net with. But I do still use tapes and CD's. I still use my Braille writer and slate. And just today I got my Apex in the mail after having a Mpower for years and years. Technology is great, its useful. It does improve our lives so much, but with that said there is so much of it. People are so plugged in these days, they can't go anywhere with out there phones. No one can leave the house without some connection to the world. Kids today watch tv, stream, play games all the time. Kids are bored if they don't have a game or phone or ipod. People do not have actually talking conversations now, we just text each other. There has to be a line of when and where and how much. My two cents worth, marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Hi Ashley, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are able to write neatly, which is a plus. Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always better. On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Desiree, > I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! > I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. > Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! > I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its > durable as you say; third, its > is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. > I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone for > making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. > I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. > > I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage I > see is the ability to tone index sections. > I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. > I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. > Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its > pretty expensive. > They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my old > walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. > I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. > Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. > Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on > not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of > technology in general. > As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms > of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those > that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as > a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: > simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell > phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on > the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I > don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to > make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl > records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to > that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this > collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I > don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought > laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The > thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take > for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips > that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't > alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to > class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a > deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people > made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be > so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke > (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older > stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less > durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she > thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to > have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? > I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last > statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's > people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. > However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever > comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to > stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? > People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views > that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. > However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. > I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny > my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille > Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running > smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell > phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to > do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make > calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into > the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. > Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, > too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there > is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and > blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that > was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on > downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a > difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the > listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more > in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet > may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world > indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly > endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are > hearing your voice. > I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm > very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people > don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do > hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, > and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. > Thanks, > Desiree > > On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Hello NABSTERS, >> >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6027 (20110408) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6027 (20110408) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 01:04:19 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 21:04:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Yes, balance is most certainly the key. My opinion, though I feel strongly, isn't right or wrong, it just is what it is. While I prefer older technology, there's a time and a place for everything. You can use a computer for something, but what happens when it breaks? You better have an alternative. That's my problem: people have become too short-sighted. They want to use their IPhone/computer/what have you at the complete exclusion of everything else. This goes for everyone, whether they're blind, sighted or whatever. Blatant advertising and peer pressure plays a big part in this, especially in this generation when we're constantly bombarded by so many different gadgets and concepts. It's easy to see how it will all spiral out of control. It's amusing to me to think of how people in the previous generation probably thought the same thing when the computer was first introduced, or when records switched from being made out of shellac to vinyl, or when tapes were replaced by CD's, but I digress. I consider myself a hobbyist when it comes to older technology. it fascinates me. But I do know when it's time to bite the bullet and dive into something new. I may be more cautious than the average person in that respect, but my methods haven't failed me yet. As for the point about the Internet, that point is well taken. I was in no way implying that we should regress to the point where Internet isn't in existance. I was simply pointing out that one can get lost in it, gain a sense of purpose just from their online communities, and that's not healthy. Again, balance is key. I've had experience on both sides of the fence with this issue as well, so i can definitely see how one can feel important because their voice is being heard, or they have a lot of online friends. The Internet itself is neither good nor bad, it's what you do with it that makes it so in your own life. On 4/8/11, Tina Hansen wrote: > True enough, and your points are well taken. Like you, I'm not discounting > innovation, and I believe that there's a place for both. To me, the key is > balance. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bfs1206 at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 01:12:13 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 21:12:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS In-Reply-To: <20110409000918.HLVL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110409000918.HLVL25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: No problem. :-) On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: > Thanks Brianna. I would use my laptop, but I'm not the fastest > typer, so I'd rather use something that I can type fast on > because I only have a certain amount of time. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Brianna Scerenscko >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 19:48:06 -0400 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>I can use the computer to write my essay as long as spell check > is >>turned off. It's much faster. >>Good luck with your SAT. > > >>On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: >>> Hahaha, thanks. I was pretty suprised that they actually let me >>> do that. > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: Kirt Manwaring >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>>Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:30:11 -0600 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>Screw them! You lucky girl. > >>>>On 4/8/11, Hannah wrote: >>>>> I took the ACT test a while back and my accommodations were >>>>> great! I wrote my essay on my BrailleNote, printed it out, and >>>>> attached it to the rest of my test. > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>>Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:56:55 -0600 >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>:) Be glad it's not the ACT. The ACT people were really >>>>> reasonable >>>>>>with all their accomodations, except the ones for the optional >>>>> essay I >>>>>>decided to do. They had me dictate it to a tape recorder after I >>>>>>wrote the answer down on my PAC mate- and long story short I ran >>>>> out >>>>>>of time. But anyways best of luck with the SAT. Own that test! > >>>>>>On 4/8/11, Brianna Scerenscko wrote: >>>>>>> You're Welcome Glad I could help. > >>>>>>> On 4/7/11, Hannah wrote: >>>>>>>> Humberto, >>>>>>>> Thank you so much for all the info!!! I really appreciate it and >>>>>>>> it will definitely help!!!!! I will look into it some more, but >>>>> I >>>>>>>> already feel like I know enough to try hooking up my BN to a >>>>>>>> monitor! >>>>>>>> Cheers, Hannah > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: humberto >>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>> list>>>>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:09:31 -0700 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>>>Well, if you are going to use the BrailleNote for taking the SAT >>>>>>>>>tests, and if it is OK to do so because you have been approved to >>>>>>>>>do that, you can do the following: >>>>>>>>>1. There is an option called the "visual display" on your >>>>>>>>>BrailleNote. Go to the options menu, and then press the letter V >>>>>>>>>to jump straight to Visual display. It will ask you whether you >>>>>>>>>want a serial connection or a bluetooth connection. If you are >>>>>>>>>interested in learning more about this option, you can refer to >>>>>>>>>the user guide (It is installed on your KeySoft by default), and >>>>>>>>>read about the sections for visual display. >>>>>>>>>2. Depending on which version of KeySoft you have, you might >>>>>>>>>want to download an application and install it on your computer. >>>>>>>>>for more information, you can visit: >>>>>>>>>http://humanware.com/support/ >>>>>>>>>search for a BrailleNote link and start investigating the other >>>>>>>>>links and settings. If you know what HyperTerminal is, there is >>>>>>>>>a file that you can download that has the correct settings for >>>>>>>>>the BrailleNote to run as a visual display. Just look around >>>>>>>>>that web site and find out what's available. >>>>>>>>>3. There is a BrailleNote mailing list for BrailleNote users >>>>>>>>>specifically. If you would like to subscribe to this mailing >>>>>>>>>list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>>>>Braillenote-request at list.humanware.com. type "Subscribe" in the >>>>>>>>>subject line, as always. >>>>>>>>>4. A last word of warning, (and yes real warning!) unless you >>>>>>>>>have been really approved to have such accommodation of >>>>>>>>>connecting a braille device onto a monitor, please be aware that >>>>>>>>>if you are in the same testing setting as other students, they >>>>>>>>>might be tickled pink to see your work. And yes, they may cheat. >>>>>>>>>You might want to see what your testing setting will look like >>>>>>>>>before even jumping in to researching options 1, 2, and 3 above. >>>>>>>>>Good luck with your test and may all be well for you. > >>>>>>>>>Cheers, Humberto > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>>>>>>>list>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:38:55 -0700 >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>>>>I have the Braille Note Em Power and I've been asking around, but >>>>>>>>>>haven't found much. I'll call the college board if I don't come >>>>>>>>>>across something soon. > >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: "Anjelina" >>>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:32:42 -0400 >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMODATIONS > >>>>>>>>>>>Which version of the Braille note do you have? I don't think >>>>>>>>>>there is a way >>>>>>>>>>>to hook the classic to an external screen. >>>>>>>>>>>When I took the SAT's, I was required to use a Brailler. My TVI >>>>>>>>>>transcribed >>>>>>>>>>>my response. >>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: Hannah >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] SAT ACCOMMOCATIONS > >>>>>>>>>>>Hey, >>>>>>>>>>>Does anyone know how to connect the BrailleNote to a monitor? I'm >>>>>>>>>>>going to take the SATS soon and I just got my accommodations; one >>>>>>>>>>>of the requirements is that I hook up my writing device to a >>>>>>>>>>>monitor so the proctor can see what I'm writing. >>>>>>>>>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>>>>>>Cheers, Hannah > >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac >>>>>>>>>>26%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>>>>>Anjelina > > >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>>>>cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>>>>>5369%40netzero.net > > >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 >>>>> 0gmail.com > > > >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Brianna Scerenscko > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>>>> ydude%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>>>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>> ydude%40gmail.com > > >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli >>> cious%40suddenlink.net > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%4 > 0gmail.com > > > >>-- >>Brianna Scerenscko > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From spangler.robert at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 01:59:37 2011 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:59:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Law School In-Reply-To: References: <4D9F876F.2020607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9FBD89.8050805@gmail.com> Hello Ashley, I am an Urban Studies major and a Spanish major. I will be going for a fifth year in order to finish my Spanish major. Thanks, Robby On 4/8/2011 6:29 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Robby, > What is your major? I heard the NFB is in a battle over bar exam > accomodations; not sure about LSAT though. > I hope you get the accomodations you need. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 6:08 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Law School > > Hello all, > > After another year of my undergrad, I will graduate and will be ready > for law school. Can anyone on this list give me any tips on how I > should prepare? One thing that concerns me the most is the LSAT - I am > curious to hear from other blind people how they prepared for the LSAT > and how they worked out accommodations. General comments such as how > you coped with the workload and balancing out other life activities > would be appreciated too. > > Thanks, > Robby > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Apr 9 02:09:18 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 22:09:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <76D83657C29C49DC9278A1B3D2B9375A@SerenaPC> I actually totally agree with you! I certainly use AIM and Facebook when convenient, but I know way too many people, many blind, who spend all day on either of those technologies and that's all they do! I try not to fit in this image of blind people of my age group. Regarding the Iphone, I simply can't picture myself going online on my phone or using all those applications, either. I'm thinking of getting a cell that's accessible for texting, but I'm not sure if I'll use texting to socialize or simply for times when people can't answer their phones to speak, but could see a text, E.G. lawyer in court, but could return text ASAP, once he/she sees it's important. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Hi, This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of technology in general. As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are hearing your voice. I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. Thanks, Desiree On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hello NABSTERS, > > This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and > one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student > opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is > there a balance in how we use this technology? > > One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now > have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, > school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within > our reach." > > One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a > dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still > the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about > our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered > discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are > actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are > employed. > > In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate > who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of > them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by > taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge > across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as > happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. > I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still > other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio > and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days > of free long distance. > > The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of > their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. > They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a > very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, > the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing > to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge > them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" > > Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for > ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate > something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their > own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all > over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in > nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a > diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the > bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of > rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what > anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these > playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life > activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these > other things as time allows. > > I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic > which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently > found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is > our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, > and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? > > Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews > to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing > about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and > advances in technology, we still have a significant number of > intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is > more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us > employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. > > I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of > is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? > If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look > at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious > to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, > and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that > more young folks act on it? > > I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this > post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people > still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this > reliance on technology affecting the situation? > > What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can > be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you > propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples > mindsets? > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 9 02:11:15 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 22:11:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Law School In-Reply-To: <4D9FBD89.8050805@gmail.com> References: <4D9F876F.2020607@gmail.com> <4D9FBD89.8050805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0077BE1839934EE48EFA5E5A8CA921D1@OwnerPC> Good luck pursuing law school. If you don't get responses here, talkint to those in the lawyers division may help. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 9:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Law School Hello Ashley, I am an Urban Studies major and a Spanish major. I will be going for a fifth year in order to finish my Spanish major. Thanks, Robby On 4/8/2011 6:29 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Robby, > What is your major? I heard the NFB is in a battle over bar exam > accomodations; not sure about LSAT though. > I hope you get the accomodations you need. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 6:08 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Law School > > Hello all, > > After another year of my undergrad, I will graduate and will be ready > for law school. Can anyone on this list give me any tips on how I > should prepare? One thing that concerns me the most is the LSAT - I am > curious to hear from other blind people how they prepared for the LSAT > and how they worked out accommodations. General comments such as how > you coped with the workload and balancing out other life activities > would be appreciated too. > > Thanks, > Robby > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 03:03:50 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:03:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <944CCE58286F47BD9E7FD45A7E212946@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <39C30EF6727D41E3B1C8550C6E16041A@Cptr233> And in fact not all people who are on SSDI or SSI, are lazy or sitting on their butts doing nothing. A lot of people are trying, looking and working towards finding employment. ----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Jorge, Here's why I'm not so sure I agree with the wellfare system working the way I described. Or, at least, these are my reservations about it. 1. Should children have to starve because their parents are out of work and not looking for jobs? I know a blind couple in their late twenties who get SSI, and lots of help from their wealthy parents. They have a child. Is it fair to that child for the family not to be financially supported? 2. Lots of blind people (and, I would submit, people in general, but especially blind people) are depressed and feel inadequett. I know blind people who feel that they don't have, and could never have the skills to work, especially with the job market the way it is. I spent some time working at an employment center a couple summers back, calling clients on a massive and impossibly long list and asking them how their job searches were going. More often than not, the responses I got were shame and appathy, with the occasional person scraping by and working like crazy on temporary jobs until something long-lasting could come. Now I'm fully aware that social security is definitely a contributing factor to that appathy- why bother looking for a job if you can survive on unemployment checks every month? But should we let those people who stopped looking for work starve? Especially when they have families? It's a hard question, and it definitely goes beyond the scope of just blind people being hindered by technology. But I'll say this- I definitely think there is a correlation between the number of blind people on social security and the number of blind people not seeking work. And when you throw in moddern technology, which can easily distract you for hours or even days at a time (I would know), it's really a devistating combination for a lot of people. Best, Kirt On 4/8/11, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > Hi Ashley, > I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts! > The point about kids being overstimulated is a good one. I would also > venture to say that, when we were young and we learned Braille, we > probably became more disciplined and are better at spelling and > grammar as a result. Of course, the other side of the coin, the fact > that plenty of sighted kids who learned handwriting often have trouble > in those same areas, is a valid one, but I do think that blind > children who learn primarily through audio, whether it be with a > screen reader or digital/books on cassette, are at a serious > disadvantage in those areas. I've seen enough of it in action to know. > I have a couple of friends who took that route and are now suffering > for it. They come to me and ask me to proofread their college work > because they know my strengths in those areas. By the same token, I > feel disadvantaged that I didn't get to know a system like the Opticon > because i struggle with handwriting. I've been totally blind all my > life, and though I have been dilligently practicing recently to write > my signature under the guidance of someone reliable, I know there's a > lot of room for improvement. I feel that if blind people have a > concept of print letters because they had to look at them, they are > able to write neatly, which is a plus. > Another analogy that comes to mind as I'm writing this is video games. > When the Atari system came out, people were stoked because it was the > first of its kind. Never mind the fact that the graphics were as basic > as they possibly could be. Now, if someone pulled one of those out of > storage, blew the dust off it and invited their friends to play, they > would be laughed at. Why is this? I personally think it's ridiculous. > Things do work, no matter how old they are. Newer is not always > better. > > On 4/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Desiree, >> I'm in my 20s and I actually agree with much of what you say! >> I am a fan of old technology too. I respect it. >> Gee I thought I was the only one who had a colleection of records! >> I like older technology for several reasons. First, its simple; second its >> durable as you say; third, its >> is sometimes quicker and lastly it gets the job done. >> I have a notetaker for taking notes. Like you, I just use my cell phone >> for >> making phone calls! Not the bells and whistles that most use. >> I'm with you; I'm not getting the IPhone. >> >> I still use cassettes to play and record notes and lectures. An advantage >> I >> see is the ability to tone index sections. >> I still have an old fashioned brailler from my school days and use it. >> I also use CDS which are becoming out of date too. >> Problem is if old technology breaks, now a days no one can fix it or its >> pretty expensive. >> They just want you to buy the new technology. So I take good care of my >> old >> walkman, stero system with cassette player/CD player and brailler. >> I think society is too dependent on new complex technology. >> Its causing kids not to write with a pencil much anymore. >> Its causing kids to be overstimulated and lots of other consequences. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> Hi, >> This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on >> not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of >> technology in general. >> As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms >> of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those >> that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as >> a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: >> simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell >> phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on >> the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I >> don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to >> make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl >> records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to >> that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this >> collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I >> don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought >> laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The >> thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take >> for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips >> that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't >> alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to >> class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a >> deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people >> made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be >> so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke >> (and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older >> stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less >> durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she >> thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to >> have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? >> I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last >> statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's >> people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. >> However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever >> comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to >> stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? >> People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views >> that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. >> However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. >> I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny >> my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille >> Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running >> smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell >> phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to >> do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make >> calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into >> the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. >> Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, >> too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there >> is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and >> blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that >> was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on >> downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a >> difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the >> listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more >> in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet >> may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world >> indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly >> endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are >> hearing your voice. >> I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm >> very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people >> don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do >> hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, >> and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. >> Thanks, >> Desiree >> >> On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> Hello NABSTERS, >>> >>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>> >>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >>> our reach." >>> >>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >>> employed. >>> >>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >>> of free long distance. >>> >>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>> >>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>> other things as time allows. >>> >>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>> >>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>> >>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>> more young folks act on it? >>> >>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>> >>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>> mindsets? >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6027 (20110408) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6027 (20110408) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Sat Apr 9 03:46:52 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:46:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? Message-ID: It is so shocking, and yes * very very very shocking! * to hear that a 21-year-old girl is playing music on those big plain old vinyl records. Heck hardly few people in this population do that anymore! I'd rather stick with an ipod touch, or an iPhone, if I had one, because it is so convenient now days. Also whoever is not keeping up with this technology, quite honestly, in my opinion, is way far behind. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Desiree Oudinot To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:50:13 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? >Hi, >This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few thoughts on >not only the issues raised in this message, but also the direction of >technology in general. >As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various forms >of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to those >that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might come as >a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes anyway: >simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having a cell >phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for going on >the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. I >don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need to >make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect vinyl >records because I honestly believe their sound quality is superior to >that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this >collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. I >don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people thought >laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still are. The >thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, take >for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your fingertips >that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I wasn't >alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer to >class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have a >deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if people >made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things must be >so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone broke >(and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the older >stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while less >durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), she >thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really necessary to >have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? >I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last >statement. I've been told by several other blind people that it's >people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of technology. >However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever >comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm going to >stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a crime? >People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the views >that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those accusations. >However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want to. >I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to deny >my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my Braille >Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running >smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My cell >phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want it to >do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: make >calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give into >the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. >Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, >too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe there >is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and >blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way that >was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on >downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're making a >difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the >listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something more >in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The Internet >may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little world >indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the seemingly >endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because people are >hearing your voice. >I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a subject I'm >very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most people >don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. I do >hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for thought, >and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. >Thanks, >Desiree >On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Hello NABSTERS, >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> Bridgit >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow er17%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 04:52:22 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 00:52:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you wanted to make a point, instead of resorting to personal attacks, how about making an intelligent case? That's what everyone else has done so far, whether they agree with me or not. On 4/8/11, humberto wrote: > It is so shocking, and yes * very very very shocking! * to hear > that a 21-year-old girl is playing music on those big plain old > vinyl records. Heck hardly few people in this population do that > anymore! > I'd rather stick with an ipod touch, or an iPhone, if I had one, > because it is so convenient now days. Also whoever is not > keeping up with this technology, quite honestly, in my opinion, > is way far behind. > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Desiree Oudinot >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Date sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:50:13 -0400 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is > TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? > >>Hi, >>This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I have a few > thoughts on >>not only the issues raised in this message, but also the > direction of >>technology in general. >>As a society, we are becoming more and more dependent on various > forms >>of technology, from those that are helpful to our advancement to > those >>that are just plain ridiculous. I am 21 years old, which might > come as >>a shock because of what I'm about to say, but here it goes > anyway: >>simplicity goes a long way. In other words, I don't mind having > a cell >>phone that just makes calls. I don't mind having a laptop for > going on >>the Internet and a note-taker for doing just that, taking notes. > I >>don't even mind using a slate and stylus on occasion when I need > to >>make labels or write down an address or phone numbers. I collect > vinyl >>records because I honestly believe their sound quality is > superior to >>that of today's digital overproductions. I don't maintain this >>collection for its value but for the place it holds in my heart. > I >>don't need an IPhone for its supposed "convenience"--if people > thought >>laptops were portable when there was nothing else, they still > are. The >>thing that I think a lot of young people, both blind and sighted, > take >>for granted is that there wasn't always one device at your > fingertips >>that you can virtually do anything with. Though, regrettably, I > wasn't >>alive to see it, there was a time when carrying a Braille writer > to >>class was the norm, and using an Opticon was a privilege. I have > a >>deep respect and appreciation for older technology because if > people >>made it work before, there is absolutely no reason why things > must be >>so convenient. When a 13-year-old girl cries because her IPhone > broke >>(and let's face it, today's technology is made cheaper than the > older >>stuff was, making the parts oh-so-complicated but all the while > less >>durable, so that you keep shelling out all your cash to fix it), > she >>thinks it's the end of the world... but why? Is it really > necessary to >>have hundreds of thousands of aps available at your fingertips? >>I know I'm probably going to start a riot here with that last >>statement. I've been told by several other blind people that > it's >>people like me who are trying to halt the advancement of > technology. >>However, it's not that I won't try to use an IPhone if a day ever >>comes that that's the only option available, but for now I'm > going to >>stick with what makes me comfortable. Is that really such a > crime? >>People have said I'm an old soul, and think I'm strange, for the > views >>that I hold, and there's probably a lot of truth to those > accusations. >>However, I see no rhyme or reason to change, nor do I really want > to. >>I've been down that road, thinking I was a misfit, and trying to > deny >>my roots, but the truth is I can't. I love my laptop and my > Braille >>Note as much as the next person. I keep them updated and running >>smoothly. So truthfully I'm not that far behind the times. My > cell >>phone may be a simple older-model Nokia, but it does what I want > it to >>do, and more importantly, it does what a phone was made to do: > make >>calls, though I have nothing against texting, as even I must give > into >>the pulling tides of some of today's innovations. >>Now, about the fact that people's comfort with this fast-paced, >>too-convenient technology is making them more lazy... I believe > there >>is some truth to these claims. Things like podcasting, Skype and >>blogging allow a person to feel empowered and noticed in a way > that >>was previously unavailable. When a person gets so many hits on >>downloads of a podcast, it might allow them to feel they're > making a >>difference, and in some ways they are. The thing is, both the >>listeners and the creators need to realize that there's something > more >>in life than the small world of their "accomplishment." The > Internet >>may seem vast, but can quickly become a busy, cluttered little > world >>indeed if you let it. It's just as easy to get lost in the > seemingly >>endless maze of websites as it is to get a big head because > people are >>hearing your voice. >>I hope I haven't been too offensive with this, but it is a > subject I'm >>very passionate about and have a lot of opinions on that most > people >>don't want to hear, so I'll understand if you guys don't either. > I do >>hope, however, that I've provided at least a little food for > thought, >>and haven't induced anyone's "cyber-rage" to unbearable levels. >>Thanks, >>Desiree > >>On 4/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> Hello NABSTERS, > >>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find > interesting, and >>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear > student >>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding > technology. Is >>> there a balance in how we use this technology? > >>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that > "We now >>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. > Jobs, >>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are > realities within >>> our reach." > >>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these > are still >>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics > about >>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly > encountered >>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians > who are >>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about > many who are >>> employed. > >>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and > articulate >>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. > Some of >>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing > good by >>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of > charge >>> across the country and the world. The message might be as > simple as >>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery > tomorrow. >>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your > prayers." Still >>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and > radio >>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before > the days >>> of free long distance. > >>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent > most of >>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for > employment. >>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but > from a >>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, > SSDI I, >>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly > willing >>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't > challenge >>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" > >>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the > Internet for >>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to > communicate >>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some > do their >>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem > to be all >>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually > technical in >>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to > change a >>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide > popping the >>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots > of >>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object > to what >>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that > these >>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a > major life >>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do > these >>> other things as time allows. > >>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work > ethic >>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is > prevalently >>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we > rekindle it? Is >>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent > support, >>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? > >>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred > interviews >>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm > not hearing >>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights > protections and >>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world > which is >>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to > getting us >>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. > >>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we > dream of >>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell > this dream? >>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As > I look >>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly > obvious >>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how > many, >>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality > so that >>> more young folks act on it? > >>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but > this >>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind > people >>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is > this >>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? > >>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, > what can >>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and > can you >>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>> mindsets? > >>> Bridgit > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow > er17%40gmail.com > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Apr 9 04:58:11 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:58:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, First, for those of you looking for a mobile with no bells and whistles, check out the Samsung Haven. It is a fully accessible mobile out of the package, but it only does the basic functions. You can text with it, but otherwise it is a simple phone. I bring this up purely for the sake of discussion. Based on this current dialogue about social security, is it fair that blind people qualify for government assistance just for being blind? No disabled people have to live in this economy too, and many of them do not qualify for these benefits. Is it fair that disabled people struggling automatically qualify for SSI and SSDI? Technology-- social media, email, portable devices-- can be great and serve a purpose, but when we rely on them to the point that we can't survive without them, this is not healthy and scares me. I am only 30, and I remember when having a computer and internet connection were the things we thought so cool and could not wait to have. Now, our world relies on computers and internet for everything. I will admit that I would love to have an I-phone, but I also abhor our inability to cope without technology. I know for blind people, technology has opened doors, but for some, it has not enhanced their lives by seeking education, employment and reaching their full potential. Current technology just replaces the old for some to feel connected and productive, but really they are just perpetuating perceptions and stereotypes. More often than naught, we are our own worse enemy. This is not just a problem for the blind, though we currently have more to lose at this point. Most public schools are completely replacing hand writing with keyboard classes. Kindergartners through second grade spend class time working on Leapster devices. Graduating high school seniors have no clue how to construct a sentence let alone an academic paper. People think I am a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but for anyone who enjoys science fiction, many of these things once considered fiction have now come true. Anyone ever read Fahrenheit 451? It is eerie some of the similarities in that book to our current world. There is a scene in the book where the main characters wife spends her time in a room with a large screen on each wall. Strangers are up on each screen in their own four screen room, and they interact with one another. Sound like anything familiar? Skype? Laptops with cameras? Video phones? We've given ourselves a sense of socialization because we have 300 Facebook friends, and 2000 Twitter followers, and we Skype to people from all around the world. What we're really doing is sitting at home numbing ourselves to a real existence. Will the day come when physical interaction seems weird to us? I don't want to be all gloom and doom. Like I said, this technology can serve a purpose, but we have to learn to not abuse it. Especially as blind people. Those before us fought so we could join society and become equals. Not for us to sit at home pretending to be plugged into life. I'm really not as crazy as I sound. *smile* I just like a good discussion. Bridgit From bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net Sat Apr 9 05:12:40 2011 From: bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net (Bernadetta Pracon) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 01:12:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? Message-ID: <20110409051240.19989.65557@domU-12-31-38-04-E5-94.compute-1.internal> I agree with Desiray. There is no need to pass quick judgement. Meanwhile, I think it's pretty neat that people are still interested in vintage technology. I think it's awesome that people are still using it. I have to say that if I had my way, I would probably still be using my braille lite from ten years ago--if it hadn't broken. I am of the same opinion that people who learn through actual reading and writing retain much more information than through auditory learning. I was fortunate enough to have been tought braille exclusively at an early age, and I can also vouch for the fact that I probably am more aware of grammar and punctuation than those who learned through listening. I am not knocking auditory learning by the way; I am not trying to be a snob. I am aware that sometimes, an individual can only obtain media and books via audio or computers with screen readers. Anyways, the point of this not-so-well-thought out, late-night ramble of mine is, vintage technology is cool and I admire those who prefer to use it over the latest tech gadgets. I personally think there should be a healthy balance of both; As so many people have already said, one needs to be resourceful and keep backup tools in order to ensure that they can execute their tasks. I am also twenty one, and I will proudly admit that I have no desire to get an ipod or an Iphone; Not because I don't admire their capabilities. I love apple, and I respect their awesome technology. I have no desire to use a touch screen, though, and I like the idea of a phone being a phone, primarily. I never even use text messaging. Sure, I love the internet just like everyone else, but I also believe that too much of anything is unnecessary and unhealthy. And that includes technology. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From maurice.mines at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 05:19:47 2011 From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:19:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education as well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also use Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two excess. I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I also possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many tools in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to sum up some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a job I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing around the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is on some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because one has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just my own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of this may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign kd0iko. On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hello NABSTERS, > > This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and > one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student > opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is > there a balance in how we use this technology? > > One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now > have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, > school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within > our reach." > > One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a > dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still > the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about > our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered > discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are > actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are > employed. > > In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate > who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of > them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by > taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge > across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as > happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. > I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still > other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio > and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days > of free long distance. > > The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of > their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. > They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a > very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, > the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing > to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge > them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" > > Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for > ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate > something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their > own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all > over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in > nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a > diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the > bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of > rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what > anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these > playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life > activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these > other things as time allows. > > I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic > which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently > found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is > our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, > and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? > > Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews > to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing > about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and > advances in technology, we still have a significant number of > intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is > more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us > employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. > > I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of > is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? > If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look > at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious > to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, > and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that > more young folks act on it? > > I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this > post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people > still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this > reliance on technology affecting the situation? > > What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can > be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you > propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples > mindsets? > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 15:01:35 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:01:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FE5C464-7E1A-44BB-8E02-35BD4764A1E8@gmail.com> Bridgit: I too do that. Even though I don't listen to vinal records, I still listen to CDs. I have an iPod, and an iPhone which I use to listen to the music collection I've put on there but there are still CDs in my room. And I use a note taker too. Think its faster in many ways to a computer--braille 2 contractions are usable as a pose to writing everything out grade one, despite the fact I'm quite fast at both. And yes, I won't mention names, but I knew a friend who spent all her time on the phone, then Skype/Clango, and Twitter. Just to feel connected, and she used to just talk to random people from around the net. Not only is that bad, but in this case unsafe. And yes, as far as old tech, I've always used a brailler--its the only tool my Vision Teacher allows for Math which I happen to like, because it keeps all the equations at my fingertips without having to go back and forth from braille display lines. By the way: do you have a plain phone for AT&T? All I need is to be able to text and take calls. Maybe put some music on it. Reason I'm asking is because I mostly use my iPhone for that--calls and ocational texts, and the iPod feature. I only use the internet for email, and even so I never type emails on the touch keyboard. (preferibly if it has a quorty keyboard for texting) Thanks, Jorge On Apr 9, 2011, at 12:58 AM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hey, > > First, for those of you looking for a mobile with no bells and whistles, > check out the Samsung Haven. It is a fully accessible mobile out of the > package, but it only does the basic functions. You can text with it, > but otherwise it is a simple phone. > > I bring this up purely for the sake of discussion. Based on this > current dialogue about social security, is it fair that blind people > qualify for government assistance just for being blind? No disabled > people have to live in this economy too, and many of them do not qualify > for these benefits. Is it fair that disabled people struggling > automatically qualify for SSI and SSDI? > > Technology-- social media, email, portable devices-- can be great and > serve a purpose, but when we rely on them to the point that we can't > survive without them, this is not healthy and scares me. > > I am only 30, and I remember when having a computer and internet > connection were the things we thought so cool and could not wait to > have. Now, our world relies on computers and internet for everything. > > I will admit that I would love to have an I-phone, but I also abhor our > inability to cope without technology. > > I know for blind people, technology has opened doors, but for some, it > has not enhanced their lives by seeking education, employment and > reaching their full potential. Current technology just replaces the old > for some to feel connected and productive, but really they are just > perpetuating perceptions and stereotypes. More often than naught, we > are our own worse enemy. > > This is not just a problem for the blind, though we currently have more > to lose at this point. > > Most public schools are completely replacing hand writing with keyboard > classes. Kindergartners through second grade spend class time working > on Leapster devices. Graduating high school seniors have no clue how to > construct a sentence let alone an academic paper. > > People think I am a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but for anyone who > enjoys science fiction, many of these things once considered fiction > have now come true. Anyone ever read Fahrenheit 451? It is eerie some > of the similarities in that book to our current world. > > There is a scene in the book where the main characters wife spends her > time in a room with a large screen on each wall. Strangers are up on > each screen in their own four screen room, and they interact with one > another. > > Sound like anything familiar? Skype? Laptops with cameras? Video > phones? > > We've given ourselves a sense of socialization because we have 300 > Facebook friends, and 2000 Twitter followers, and we Skype to people > from all around the world. What we're really doing is sitting at home > numbing ourselves to a real existence. Will the day come when physical > interaction seems weird to us? > > I don't want to be all gloom and doom. Like I said, this technology can > serve a purpose, but we have to learn to not abuse it. Especially as > blind people. Those before us fought so we could join society and > become equals. Not for us to sit at home pretending to be plugged into > life. > > I'm really not as crazy as I sound. *smile* I just like a good > discussion. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 17:36:35 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:36:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> References: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Marsha, I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: > Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education as > well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also use > Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two excess. > I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I also > possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many tools > in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically > important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to sum up > some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a job > I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing around > the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is on > some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because one > has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of > technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just my > own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of this > may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I > also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. > Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign > kd0iko. > On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > >> Hello NABSTERS, >> >> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >> there a balance in how we use this technology? >> >> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >> our reach." >> >> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >> employed. >> >> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >> of free long distance. >> >> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >> >> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >> other things as time allows. >> >> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >> >> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >> >> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >> more young folks act on it? >> >> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >> >> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >> mindsets? >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 17:47:03 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:47:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force us into this entitlement mentality. You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be implemented. As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job there'd be nothing to worry about. Jorge On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Marsha, > I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy > life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun > date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So > I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But > you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't > insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the > question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI > to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to > Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go > out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to > those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the > idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do > think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? > > On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education as >> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also use >> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two excess. >> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I also >> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many tools >> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically >> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to sum up >> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a job >> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing around >> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is on >> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because one >> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of >> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just my >> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of this >> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I >> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. >> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign >> kd0iko. >> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> >>> Hello NABSTERS, >>> >>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>> >>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >>> our reach." >>> >>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >>> employed. >>> >>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >>> of free long distance. >>> >>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>> >>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>> other things as time allows. >>> >>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>> >>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>> >>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>> more young folks act on it? >>> >>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>> >>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>> mindsets? >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 17:59:02 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:59:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if you wanted to. On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force us > into this entitlement mentality. > > > You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be implemented. > > As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, > as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job there'd > be nothing to worry about. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Marsha, >> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >> >> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education >>> as >>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also >>> use >>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>> excess. >>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I >>> also >>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many >>> tools >>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically >>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to sum >>> up >>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a >>> job >>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing >>> around >>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is >>> on >>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because >>> one >>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of >>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just >>> my >>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of >>> this >>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I >>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. >>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign >>> kd0iko. >>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> >>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>> >>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>> >>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >>>> our reach." >>>> >>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >>>> employed. >>>> >>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >>>> of free long distance. >>>> >>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>> >>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>>> other things as time allows. >>>> >>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>> >>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>> >>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>>> more young folks act on it? >>>> >>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>> >>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>> mindsets? >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 18:09:54 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:09:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0786358CE6B74889A417F17D01256F9B@OwnerPC> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please reconsider this decision. Thank you, Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if you wanted to. On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force us > into this entitlement mentality. > > > You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be implemented. > > As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, > as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job there'd > be nothing to worry about. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Marsha, >> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >> >> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education >>> as >>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also >>> use >>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>> excess. >>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I >>> also >>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many >>> tools >>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically >>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to sum >>> up >>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a >>> job >>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing >>> around >>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is >>> on >>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because >>> one >>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of >>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just >>> my >>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of >>> this >>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I >>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. >>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign >>> kd0iko. >>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> >>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>> >>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>> >>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >>>> our reach." >>>> >>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >>>> employed. >>>> >>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >>>> of free long distance. >>>> >>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>> >>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>>> other things as time allows. >>>> >>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>> >>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>> >>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>>> more young folks act on it? >>>> >>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>> >>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>> mindsets? >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg epaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 01:34:00 From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 18:13:17 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:13:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <0786358CE6B74889A417F17D01256F9B@OwnerPC> References: <0786358CE6B74889A417F17D01256F9B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival mechanism. On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: > Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some > parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of > rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please > reconsider this decision. > Thank you, Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. > My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively > seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same > token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your > parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're > attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? > That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if > you wanted to. > > On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force > us >> into this entitlement mentality. >> >> >> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be > implemented. >> >> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job > there'd >> be nothing to worry about. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Marsha, >>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>> >>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and > education >>>> as >>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I > also >>>> use >>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>> excess. >>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. > I >>>> also >>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having > many >>>> tools >>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is > critically >>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess > to sum >>>> up >>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to > find a >>>> job >>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window > dressing >>>> around >>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one > is >>>> on >>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just > because >>>> one >>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full > of >>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. > Just >>>> my >>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some > of >>>> this >>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. > Because I >>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is > well. >>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call > sign >>>> kd0iko. >>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>> >>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, > and >>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. > Is >>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>> >>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We > now >>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities > within >>>>> our reach." >>>>> >>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are > still >>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics > about >>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who > are >>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many > who are >>>>> employed. >>>>> >>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and > articulate >>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. > Some of >>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good > by >>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery > tomorrow. >>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." > Still >>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and > radio >>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the > days >>>>> of free long distance. >>>>> >>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most > of >>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for > employment. >>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from > a >>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, > SSDI I, >>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly > willing >>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't > challenge >>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>> >>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet > for >>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to > communicate >>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do > their >>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to > be all >>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical > in >>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping > the >>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to > what >>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major > life >>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do > these >>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>> >>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work > ethic >>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle > it? Is >>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent > support, >>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>> >>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred > interviews >>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not > hearing >>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections > and >>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world > which is >>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting > us >>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>> >>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream > of >>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this > dream? >>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I > look >>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly > obvious >>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how > many, >>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so > that >>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>> >>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but > this >>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind > people >>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>> >>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what > can >>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can > you >>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>> mindsets? >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 > gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 > 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg > epaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 > gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. > com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 > 01:34:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 9 18:14:10 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:14:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44614C54A71A409BA7F12539550CADC3@OwnerPC> Agree George; society has got people into a entitlement mindset, especially blind people There should be limits on SSI. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 1:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force us into this entitlement mentality. You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be implemented. As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job there'd be nothing to worry about. Jorge On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Marsha, > I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy > life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun > date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So > I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But > you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't > insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the > question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI > to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to > Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go > out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to > those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the > idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do > think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? > > On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education >> as >> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also >> use >> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >> excess. >> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I >> also >> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many >> tools >> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically >> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to sum >> up >> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a >> job >> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing >> around >> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is >> on >> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because >> one >> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of >> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just >> my >> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of >> this >> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I >> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. >> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign >> kd0iko. >> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> >>> Hello NABSTERS, >>> >>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>> >>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities within >>> our reach." >>> >>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are still >>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who are >>> employed. >>> >>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and articulate >>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some of >>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the days >>> of free long distance. >>> >>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly willing >>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>> >>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be all >>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major life >>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>> other things as time allows. >>> >>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>> >>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not hearing >>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which is >>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>> >>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>> more young folks act on it? >>> >>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>> >>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>> mindsets? >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 9 18:19:05 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:19:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <33263BFB-5502-4EC5-8549-9129ED4EC66A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <117C3ABB3C3A4FF2A3B5CA306D0C67E2@OwnerPC> Hi Desiree, Proving you're looking for work can be done. That is how people collect unemployment in my state; they have to prove they need it and they are out of work. I think the same for Welfare recipients is done. You would fill out a form stating what jobs you looked for and proof of that like the copy of the application or something. I'm not sure how its done; just know it is. Ashley The same varification system could be used for SSI recipients. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 1:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if you wanted to. On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force us > into this entitlement mentality. > > > You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be implemented. > > As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, > as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job there'd > be nothing to worry about. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Marsha, >> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >> >> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and education >>> as >>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I also >>> use >>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>> excess. >>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. I >>> also >>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having many >>> tools >>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is critically >>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess to >>> sum >>> up >>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to find a >>> job >>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window dressing >>> around >>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one is >>> on >>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just because >>> one >>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full of >>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. Just >>> my >>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some of >>> this >>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. Because I >>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is well. >>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call sign >>> kd0iko. >>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> >>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>> >>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, and >>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. Is >>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>> >>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We now >>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >>>> within >>>> our reach." >>>> >>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >>>> still >>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics about >>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who are >>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many who >>>> are >>>> employed. >>>> >>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >>>> articulate >>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. Some >>>> of >>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good by >>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery tomorrow. >>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." Still >>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and radio >>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >>>> days >>>> of free long distance. >>>> >>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most of >>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for employment. >>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from a >>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, SSDI I, >>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >>>> willing >>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't challenge >>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>> >>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet for >>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to communicate >>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do their >>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to be >>>> all >>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical in >>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping the >>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to what >>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >>>> life >>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do these >>>> other things as time allows. >>>> >>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work ethic >>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle it? Is >>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent support, >>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>> >>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred interviews >>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >>>> hearing >>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections and >>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world which >>>> is >>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting us >>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>> >>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream of >>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this dream? >>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I look >>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly obvious >>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how many, >>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so that >>>> more young folks act on it? >>>> >>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but this >>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind people >>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>> >>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what can >>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can you >>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>> mindsets? >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Apr 9 18:45:10 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:45:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC> Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is considered an impairment related expense. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Hi, I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival mechanism. On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: > Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some > parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of > rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please > reconsider this decision. > Thank you, Koby. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. > My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively > seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same > token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your > parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're > attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? > That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if > you wanted to. > > On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force > us >> into this entitlement mentality. >> >> >> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be > implemented. >> >> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job > there'd >> be nothing to worry about. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Marsha, >>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>> >>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and > education >>>> as >>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I > also >>>> use >>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>> excess. >>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. > I >>>> also >>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having > many >>>> tools >>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is > critically >>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess > to sum >>>> up >>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to > find a >>>> job >>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window > dressing >>>> around >>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one > is >>>> on >>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just > because >>>> one >>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full > of >>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. > Just >>>> my >>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some > of >>>> this >>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. > Because I >>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is > well. >>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call > sign >>>> kd0iko. >>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>> >>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, > and >>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. > Is >>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>> >>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We > now >>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities > within >>>>> our reach." >>>>> >>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are > still >>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics > about >>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who > are >>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many > who are >>>>> employed. >>>>> >>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and > articulate >>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. > Some of >>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good > by >>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery > tomorrow. >>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." > Still >>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and > radio >>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the > days >>>>> of free long distance. >>>>> >>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most > of >>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for > employment. >>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from > a >>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, > SSDI I, >>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly > willing >>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't > challenge >>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>> >>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet > for >>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to > communicate >>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do > their >>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to > be all >>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical > in >>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping > the >>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to > what >>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major > life >>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do > these >>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>> >>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work > ethic >>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle > it? Is >>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent > support, >>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>> >>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred > interviews >>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not > hearing >>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections > and >>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world > which is >>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting > us >>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>> >>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream > of >>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this > dream? >>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I > look >>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly > obvious >>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how > many, >>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so > that >>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>> >>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but > this >>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind > people >>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>> >>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what > can >>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can > you >>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>> mindsets? >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 > gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 > 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg > epaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 > gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. > com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 > 01:34:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 19:40:58 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 15:40:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC> References: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC> Message-ID: I have heard that funding in NJ for things like adaptive tech is pretty atrocious, so I can understand where you're coming from. This really is a complicated issue and what seems like a fair decision for one person might paralyze another's progress. On 4/9/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for > paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is > considered an impairment related expense. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no > need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college > and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be > considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival > mechanism. > > On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some >> parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of >> rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please >> reconsider this decision. >> Thank you, Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. >> My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively >> seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same >> token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your >> parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're >> attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? >> That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if >> you wanted to. >> >> On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force >> us >>> into this entitlement mentality. >>> >>> >>> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be >> implemented. >>> >>> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >>> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job >> there'd >>> be nothing to worry about. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, >>>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> >>>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and >> education >>>>> as >>>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I >> also >>>>> use >>>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>>> excess. >>>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. >> I >>>>> also >>>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having >> many >>>>> tools >>>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is >> critically >>>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess >> to sum >>>>> up >>>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to >> find a >>>>> job >>>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window >> dressing >>>>> around >>>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one >> is >>>>> on >>>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just >> because >>>>> one >>>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full >> of >>>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. >> Just >>>>> my >>>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some >> of >>>>> this >>>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. >> Because I >>>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is >> well. >>>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call >> sign >>>>> kd0iko. >>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>>> >>>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, >> and >>>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. >> Is >>>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We >> now >>>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >> within >>>>>> our reach." >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >> still >>>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics >> about >>>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who >> are >>>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many >> who are >>>>>> employed. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >> articulate >>>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. >> Some of >>>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good >> by >>>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery >> tomorrow. >>>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." >> Still >>>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and >> radio >>>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >> days >>>>>> of free long distance. >>>>>> >>>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most >> of >>>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for >> employment. >>>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from >> a >>>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, >> SSDI I, >>>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >> willing >>>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't >> challenge >>>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet >> for >>>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to >> communicate >>>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do >> their >>>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to >> be all >>>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical >> in >>>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping >> the >>>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to >> what >>>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >> life >>>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do >> these >>>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work >> ethic >>>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle >> it? Is >>>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent >> support, >>>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred >> interviews >>>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >> hearing >>>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections >> and >>>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world >> which is >>>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting >> us >>>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream >> of >>>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this >> dream? >>>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I >> look >>>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly >> obvious >>>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how >> many, >>>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so >> that >>>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but >> this >>>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind >> people >>>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what >> can >>>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can >> you >>>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>>> mindsets? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bridgit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 >> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg >> epaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. >> com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 >> 01:34:00 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 9 20:21:28 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 16:21:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC> Message-ID: <1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> Oh my! Technology is expensive. I thought rehab bought all adaptive technology if you justified it! -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? I have heard that funding in NJ for things like adaptive tech is pretty atrocious, so I can understand where you're coming from. This really is a complicated issue and what seems like a fair decision for one person might paralyze another's progress. On 4/9/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for > paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is > considered an impairment related expense. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no > need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college > and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be > considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival > mechanism. > > On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some >> parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of >> rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please >> reconsider this decision. >> Thank you, Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. >> My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively >> seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same >> token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your >> parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're >> attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? >> That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if >> you wanted to. >> >> On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force >> us >>> into this entitlement mentality. >>> >>> >>> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be >> implemented. >>> >>> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >>> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job >> there'd >>> be nothing to worry about. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, >>>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> >>>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and >> education >>>>> as >>>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I >> also >>>>> use >>>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>>> excess. >>>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. >> I >>>>> also >>>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having >> many >>>>> tools >>>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is >> critically >>>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess >> to sum >>>>> up >>>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to >> find a >>>>> job >>>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window >> dressing >>>>> around >>>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one >> is >>>>> on >>>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just >> because >>>>> one >>>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full >> of >>>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. >> Just >>>>> my >>>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some >> of >>>>> this >>>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. >> Because I >>>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is >> well. >>>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call >> sign >>>>> kd0iko. >>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>>> >>>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, >> and >>>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. >> Is >>>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We >> now >>>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >> within >>>>>> our reach." >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >> still >>>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics >> about >>>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who >> are >>>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many >> who are >>>>>> employed. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >> articulate >>>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. >> Some of >>>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good >> by >>>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery >> tomorrow. >>>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." >> Still >>>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and >> radio >>>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >> days >>>>>> of free long distance. >>>>>> >>>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most >> of >>>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for >> employment. >>>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from >> a >>>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, >> SSDI I, >>>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >> willing >>>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't >> challenge >>>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet >> for >>>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to >> communicate >>>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do >> their >>>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to >> be all >>>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical >> in >>>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping >> the >>>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to >> what >>>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >> life >>>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do >> these >>>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work >> ethic >>>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle >> it? Is >>>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent >> support, >>>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred >> interviews >>>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >> hearing >>>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections >> and >>>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world >> which is >>>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting >> us >>>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream >> of >>>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this >> dream? >>>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I >> look >>>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly >> obvious >>>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how >> many, >>>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so >> that >>>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but >> this >>>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind >> people >>>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what >> can >>>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can >> you >>>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>>> mindsets? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bridgit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 >> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg >> epaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. >> com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 >> 01:34:00 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Apr 9 20:36:53 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 16:36:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <292147AF1ABB40A4B0AAB7E6A283F23C@SerenaPC> In theory ... usually yes, but SSI is helpful, in case they don't. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Oh my! Technology is expensive. I thought rehab bought all adaptive technology if you justified it! -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? I have heard that funding in NJ for things like adaptive tech is pretty atrocious, so I can understand where you're coming from. This really is a complicated issue and what seems like a fair decision for one person might paralyze another's progress. On 4/9/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for > paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is > considered an impairment related expense. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no > need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college > and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be > considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival > mechanism. > > On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some >> parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of >> rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please >> reconsider this decision. >> Thank you, Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. >> My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively >> seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same >> token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your >> parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're >> attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? >> That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if >> you wanted to. >> >> On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force >> us >>> into this entitlement mentality. >>> >>> >>> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be >> implemented. >>> >>> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >>> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job >> there'd >>> be nothing to worry about. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, >>>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> >>>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and >> education >>>>> as >>>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I >> also >>>>> use >>>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>>> excess. >>>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. >> I >>>>> also >>>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having >> many >>>>> tools >>>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is >> critically >>>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess >> to sum >>>>> up >>>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to >> find a >>>>> job >>>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window >> dressing >>>>> around >>>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one >> is >>>>> on >>>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just >> because >>>>> one >>>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full >> of >>>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. >> Just >>>>> my >>>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some >> of >>>>> this >>>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. >> Because I >>>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is >> well. >>>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call >> sign >>>>> kd0iko. >>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>>> >>>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, >> and >>>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. >> Is >>>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We >> now >>>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >> within >>>>>> our reach." >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >> still >>>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics >> about >>>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who >> are >>>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many >> who are >>>>>> employed. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >> articulate >>>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. >> Some of >>>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good >> by >>>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery >> tomorrow. >>>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." >> Still >>>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and >> radio >>>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >> days >>>>>> of free long distance. >>>>>> >>>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most >> of >>>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for >> employment. >>>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from >> a >>>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, >> SSDI I, >>>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >> willing >>>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't >> challenge >>>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet >> for >>>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to >> communicate >>>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do >> their >>>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to >> be all >>>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical >> in >>>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping >> the >>>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to >> what >>>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >> life >>>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do >> these >>>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work >> ethic >>>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle >> it? Is >>>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent >> support, >>>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred >> interviews >>>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >> hearing >>>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections >> and >>>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world >> which is >>>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting >> us >>>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream >> of >>>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this >> dream? >>>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I >> look >>>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly >> obvious >>>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how >> many, >>>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so >> that >>>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but >> this >>>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind >> people >>>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what >> can >>>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can >> you >>>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>>> mindsets? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bridgit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 >> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg >> epaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. >> com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 >> 01:34:00 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 20:45:07 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:45:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> References: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC> <1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, Depends on your rehab counselor, state funding, the weather, how much you can bribe, etc. (not quite that extreme, but you get my point) I'm lucky to be pretty good friends with the guy in our state who handles our technology justifications, and even then he had me modify my requests. The letter of the law isn't reality and probably never will be. As for SSI...that's why I'd still probably want it to stay the way it is. True, far too many people abuse it and it gives the disabled community a bad reputation. But I honestly can't think of a better system that wouldn't screw over some people who really do need the money. And...Jorge, lots of people aren't looking for employment. Is it fair for a kid to starve because the parent is lazy? (I'm talking generally here, from my experience working at an employment center) On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Oh my! Technology is expensive. I thought rehab bought all adaptive > technology if you justified it! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > I have heard that funding in NJ for things like adaptive tech is > pretty atrocious, so I can understand where you're coming from. This > really is a complicated issue and what seems like a fair decision for > one person might paralyze another's progress. > > On 4/9/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >> Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for >> paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is >> considered an impairment related expense. >> >> Serena >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> Hi, >> I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no >> need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college >> and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be >> considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival >> mechanism. >> >> On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: >>> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some >>> parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of >>> rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please >>> reconsider this decision. >>> Thank you, Koby. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >>> Turning into Our Enemy? >>> >>> I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. >>> My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively >>> seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same >>> token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your >>> parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're >>> attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? >>> That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if >>> you wanted to. >>> >>> On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force >>> us >>>> into this entitlement mentality. >>>> >>>> >>>> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be >>> implemented. >>>> >>>> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >>>> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job >>> there'd >>>> be nothing to worry about. >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> Marsha, >>>>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>>>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>>>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>>>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>>>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>>>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>>>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>>>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>>>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>>>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>>>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>>>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>>>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>> >>>>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and >>> education >>>>>> as >>>>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I >>> also >>>>>> use >>>>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>>>> excess. >>>>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. >>> I >>>>>> also >>>>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having >>> many >>>>>> tools >>>>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is >>> critically >>>>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess >>> to sum >>>>>> up >>>>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to >>> find a >>>>>> job >>>>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window >>> dressing >>>>>> around >>>>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one >>> is >>>>>> on >>>>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just >>> because >>>>>> one >>>>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full >>> of >>>>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. >>> Just >>>>>> my >>>>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some >>> of >>>>>> this >>>>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. >>> Because I >>>>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is >>> well. >>>>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call >>> sign >>>>>> kd0iko. >>>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, >>> and >>>>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. >>> Is >>>>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We >>> now >>>>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >>> within >>>>>>> our reach." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >>> still >>>>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics >>> about >>>>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who >>> are >>>>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many >>> who are >>>>>>> employed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >>> articulate >>>>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. >>> Some of >>>>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good >>> by >>>>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery >>> tomorrow. >>>>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." >>> Still >>>>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and >>> radio >>>>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >>> days >>>>>>> of free long distance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most >>> of >>>>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for >>> employment. >>>>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from >>> a >>>>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, >>> SSDI I, >>>>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >>> willing >>>>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't >>> challenge >>>>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet >>> for >>>>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to >>> communicate >>>>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do >>> their >>>>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to >>> be all >>>>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical >>> in >>>>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping >>> the >>>>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to >>> what >>>>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >>> life >>>>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do >>> these >>>>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work >>> ethic >>>>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle >>> it? Is >>>>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent >>> support, >>>>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred >>> interviews >>>>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >>> hearing >>>>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections >>> and >>>>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world >>> which is >>>>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting >>> us >>>>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream >>> of >>>>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this >>> dream? >>>>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I >>> look >>>>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly >>> obvious >>>>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how >>> many, >>>>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so >>> that >>>>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but >>> this >>>>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind >>> people >>>>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what >>> can >>>>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can >>> you >>>>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>>>> mindsets? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bridgit >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 >>> gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg >>> epaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. >>> com >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 >>> 01:34:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai >> l.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From th404 at comcast.net Sat Apr 9 21:11:50 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:11:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers Message-ID: With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's thoughts on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of a good reader. So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they give you the results you want? If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If the reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have you ensured that communication is open and that they're following your directions? Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Apr 9 22:00:35 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:00:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I hate having a human reader. They stumble over words, (at least,) the ones I've experienced, and they mispronounce words. I'd rather use technology, but I think Braille is still the answer. Blessings, Joshua On 4/9/11, Tina Hansen wrote: > With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's thoughts > on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with > scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of a > good reader. > > So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and > how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they give > you the results you want? > > If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store > the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If the > reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have you > ensured that communication is open and that they're following your > directions? > > Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 9 22:53:31 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 18:53:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9AAABE5F36AC4B86AD4FC64A5F003B16@OwnerPC> Hi Tina, I like human readers! They are not monotone like technology. Textbooks have charts, graphs, diagrams, etc that in my experience jaws doesn't read well. Also my tech editing book talks about punctuation, type of font, and spelling. You just won't get that with a screen reader. Unless you spell word by word. I post ads on boards for readers. I interview them in the library. I've not had a perfect time with readers; far from it with scheduling challenges. But it helps me learn; they can look up words and we preview the chapter together, a great study technique for anyone. They read headings and tell me major topics when previewing it. Joshua, readers will stumble over unfamiliar or technical words. But you can train them to say it right and if you don't know the pronounciation, ask the professor. I have them spell the word and tell them how to pronounce it then. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Tina Hansen Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's thoughts on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of a good reader. So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they give you the results you want? If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If the reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have you ensured that communication is open and that they're following your directions? Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Sat Apr 9 22:59:15 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 22:59:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1026650847.81762.1302389955006.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello david, as to getting around all of the disney parks when i was there in 2000 and also at disneyland by myself with a friend of mine in 1999 is that i went to guest services and they told me to go to a cast memeber who is at the beeginning of the ride or attraction and they can direct you to a secret entrance or give you a fast pass where you can go to the head of the line so you don't have to wait in line. also the fast pass will give you to sit in a particular space for people with disabilities or will give you more specific information. i hope this information is helpful to you. unfortunately, due to financial circumstances i'm not going to orlando this year for convention and also going to disney world either which is sad to me. but, i will be going to orlando in 2013 for sure! thanks for your interst and, i will talk to you soon. hugs always, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:56:41 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] The Disney Parks In Orlando Hi All! It's not normal that I come to this list for help, but I'm hoping my question will generate some good discussion and maybe some helpful suggestions too. While at convention this year, I plan to take some time to go visit the various disney attractions like Epcott, magic Kingdom, etc. Gotta be a kid when you can, right? Since I couldn't stay post conventino, I'm not able to take the tours Sheryl is offering sadly, but that's neither here nor there. What I'm wondering is this. Have any of you gone to the parks yourselves before or with amily? What was navigation like? This will be my first time going to an amusement park type place without tons of sighted people with me, so I'm looking for any tips in navigating such an environment without getting incredibly lost in such a huge place. Travel is not my strength, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from the challenges it presents. Looking forward to reading what people have to say. >From David _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Apr 9 22:59:41 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers In-Reply-To: <9AAABE5F36AC4B86AD4FC64A5F003B16@OwnerPC> References: <9AAABE5F36AC4B86AD4FC64A5F003B16@OwnerPC> Message-ID: This one reader mispronounced "climate." I couldn't concentrate on the material, because I was laughing at the way she mispronounced that semple word. They should have given me a better reader. This was my freshman year at PCC. Now, all of my books are from RFBND, (but that's about to change,) (hopefully.) I'm going through APH for the Blind, and I'll find out if they have Braille college textbooks. Blessings, Joshua On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Tina, > I like human readers! They are not monotone like technology. Textbooks have > charts, graphs, diagrams, etc that in my experience jaws doesn't > read well. Also my tech editing book talks about punctuation, type of font, > and spelling. You just won't get that with a screen reader. Unless you spell > word by word. > > I post ads on boards for readers. I interview them in the library. > I've not had a perfect time with readers; far from it with scheduling > challenges. But it helps me learn; they can look up words and we preview the > chapter together, a great study technique for anyone. They read headings and > tell me major topics when previewing it. > > Joshua, readers will stumble over unfamiliar or technical words. > But you can train them to say it right and if you don't know the > pronounciation, ask the professor. > I have them spell the word and tell them how to pronounce it then. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Tina Hansen > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers > > With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's thoughts > on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with > scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of a > good reader. > > So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and > how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they give > you the results you want? > > If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store > the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If the > reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have you > ensured that communication is open and that they're following your > directions? > > Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Apr 9 23:05:37 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 18:05:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: George, My Samsung Haven is through Verizon. It is a very basic phone with the exception of texting. It has no online capabilities, no MP3 player, none of that stuff, but it is fully accessible. It was specifically designed for visually impaired and deaf users. The speech is a bit annoying because there is a pause between functions, but I can still do everything on my own with it. There is also a Samsung Gusto which is the same phone except it has more cool stuff like what you mention, and it is fully accessible. I have not had the opportunity to play with a Gusto either. I would like something like an I-phone, but right now, cost is a bigger factor than convenience. I am not sure what other companies offer the Samsung Haven and Gusto. Bridgit Message: 14 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:01:35 -0400 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? Message-ID: <5FE5C464-7E1A-44BB-8E02-35BD4764A1E8 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bridgit: I too do that. Even though I don't listen to vinal records, I still listen to CDs. I have an iPod, and an iPhone which I use to listen to the music collection I've put on there but there are still CDs in my room. And I use a note taker too. Think its faster in many ways to a computer--braille 2 contractions are usable as a pose to writing everything out grade one, despite the fact I'm quite fast at both. And yes, I won't mention names, but I knew a friend who spent all her time on the phone, then Skype/Clango, and Twitter. Just to feel connected, and she used to just talk to random people from around the net. Not only is that bad, but in this case unsafe. And yes, as far as old tech, I've always used a brailler--its the only tool my Vision Teacher allows for Math which I happen to like, because it keeps all the equations at my fingertips without having to go back and forth from braille display lines. By the way: do you have a plain phone for AT&T? All I need is to be able to text and take calls. Maybe put some music on it. Reason I'm asking is because I mostly use my iPhone for that--calls and ocational texts, and the iPod feature. I only use the internet for email, and even so I never type emails on the touch keyboard. (preferibly if it has a quorty keyboard for texting) Thanks, Jorge From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 9 23:06:37 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 19:06:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers In-Reply-To: References: <9AAABE5F36AC4B86AD4FC64A5F003B16@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <8B24E28BDC0647808BDC4F395BBF72A5@OwnerPC> Joshua, I've been frustrated too. I just tell them how to pronounce words and if they continue having trouble, well I'd try to find a replacement. I'd have readers read in the interview. Someone couldn't pronounce climate? Gee! That sucks if they made it to college. I also make wide use of RFB but they don't always have my books. Braille? My dreams. Braille is expensive to transcribe. Except for its math, a college isn't going to pay thousands to transcribe a book. Ashleys -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers This one reader mispronounced "climate." I couldn't concentrate on the material, because I was laughing at the way she mispronounced that semple word. They should have given me a better reader. This was my freshman year at PCC. Now, all of my books are from RFBND, (but that's about to change,) (hopefully.) I'm going through APH for the Blind, and I'll find out if they have Braille college textbooks. Blessings, Joshua On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Tina, > I like human readers! They are not monotone like technology. Textbooks > have > charts, graphs, diagrams, etc that in my experience jaws doesn't > read well. Also my tech editing book talks about punctuation, type of > font, > and spelling. You just won't get that with a screen reader. Unless you > spell > word by word. > > I post ads on boards for readers. I interview them in the library. > I've not had a perfect time with readers; far from it with scheduling > challenges. But it helps me learn; they can look up words and we preview > the > chapter together, a great study technique for anyone. They read headings > and > tell me major topics when previewing it. > > Joshua, readers will stumble over unfamiliar or technical words. > But you can train them to say it right and if you don't know the > pronounciation, ask the professor. > I have them spell the word and tell them how to pronounce it then. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Tina Hansen > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers > > With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's > thoughts > on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with > scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of > a > good reader. > > So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and > how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they > give > you the results you want? > > If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store > the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If the > reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have > you > ensured that communication is open and that they're following your > directions? > > Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Apr 9 23:13:43 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 18:13:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers In-Reply-To: <8B24E28BDC0647808BDC4F395BBF72A5@OwnerPC> References: <9AAABE5F36AC4B86AD4FC64A5F003B16@OwnerPC> <8B24E28BDC0647808BDC4F395BBF72A5@OwnerPC> Message-ID: That's what the DSB, (Division of Services for the Blind,) is for. They purchase Braille books, (btw,) if you get a Pell grant, you can charge it to that, as well. Blessings, Joshua On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > I've been frustrated too. I just tell them how to pronounce words and if > they continue having trouble, well I'd try to find a replacement. > I'd have readers read in the interview. Someone couldn't pronounce climate? > Gee! That sucks if they made it to college. I also make wide use of RFB but > they don't always have my books. > Braille? My dreams. Braille is expensive to transcribe. Except for its > math, a college isn't going to pay thousands to transcribe a book. > > Ashleys > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers > > This one reader mispronounced "climate." > I couldn't concentrate on the material, because I was laughing at the > way she mispronounced that semple word. > They should have given me a better reader. > This was my freshman year at PCC. > Now, all of my books are from RFBND, (but that's about to change,) > (hopefully.) > I'm going through APH for the Blind, and I'll find out if they have > Braille college textbooks. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi Tina, >> I like human readers! They are not monotone like technology. Textbooks >> have >> charts, graphs, diagrams, etc that in my experience jaws doesn't >> read well. Also my tech editing book talks about punctuation, type of >> font, >> and spelling. You just won't get that with a screen reader. Unless you >> spell >> word by word. >> >> I post ads on boards for readers. I interview them in the library. >> I've not had a perfect time with readers; far from it with scheduling >> challenges. But it helps me learn; they can look up words and we preview >> the >> chapter together, a great study technique for anyone. They read headings >> and >> tell me major topics when previewing it. >> >> Joshua, readers will stumble over unfamiliar or technical words. >> But you can train them to say it right and if you don't know the >> pronounciation, ask the professor. >> I have them spell the word and tell them how to pronounce it then. >> >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tina Hansen >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers >> >> With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's >> thoughts >> on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with >> scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of >> a >> good reader. >> >> So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and >> how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they >> give >> you the results you want? >> >> If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store >> the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If the >> reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have >> you >> ensured that communication is open and that they're following your >> directions? >> >> Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 23:33:52 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:33:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers In-Reply-To: References: <9AAABE5F36AC4B86AD4FC64A5F003B16@OwnerPC> <8B24E28BDC0647808BDC4F395BBF72A5@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Tina, I've only used readers for tests- and occasionally to read me stuff from textbooks. I've not had any really bad experience. The disability center on campus has a volunteer reader program which I utilize whenever I need a reader and it works great. On 4/9/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > That's what the DSB, (Division of Services for the Blind,) is for. > They purchase Braille books, (btw,) if you get a Pell grant, you can > charge it to that, as well. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Joshua, >> I've been frustrated too. I just tell them how to pronounce words and if >> they continue having trouble, well I'd try to find a replacement. >> I'd have readers read in the interview. Someone couldn't pronounce >> climate? >> Gee! That sucks if they made it to college. I also make wide use of RFB >> but >> they don't always have my books. >> Braille? My dreams. Braille is expensive to transcribe. Except for its >> math, a college isn't going to pay thousands to transcribe a book. >> >> Ashleys >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers >> >> This one reader mispronounced "climate." >> I couldn't concentrate on the material, because I was laughing at the >> way she mispronounced that semple word. >> They should have given me a better reader. >> This was my freshman year at PCC. >> Now, all of my books are from RFBND, (but that's about to change,) >> (hopefully.) >> I'm going through APH for the Blind, and I'll find out if they have >> Braille college textbooks. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi Tina, >>> I like human readers! They are not monotone like technology. Textbooks >>> have >>> charts, graphs, diagrams, etc that in my experience jaws doesn't >>> read well. Also my tech editing book talks about punctuation, type of >>> font, >>> and spelling. You just won't get that with a screen reader. Unless you >>> spell >>> word by word. >>> >>> I post ads on boards for readers. I interview them in the library. >>> I've not had a perfect time with readers; far from it with scheduling >>> challenges. But it helps me learn; they can look up words and we preview >>> the >>> chapter together, a great study technique for anyone. They read headings >>> and >>> tell me major topics when previewing it. >>> >>> Joshua, readers will stumble over unfamiliar or technical words. >>> But you can train them to say it right and if you don't know the >>> pronounciation, ask the professor. >>> I have them spell the word and tell them how to pronounce it then. >>> >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tina Hansen >>> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:11 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Finding and Working with Readers >>> >>> With all this talk about technology, I thought I'd ask for people's >>> thoughts >>> on one of my favorite low-tech solutions for access: readers. Even with >>> scanners and the Internet, some material still works best in the hands of >>> a >>> good reader. >>> >>> So, if you've done reader searches recently, what has worked for you, and >>> how have you found readers? Also, how have you worked with them so they >>> give >>> you the results you want? >>> >>> If you've worked with a reader and used a digital voice recorder to store >>> the material for later review, how has that helped or hindered you? If >>> the >>> reader was only able to work if you left them a voice recorder, how have >>> you >>> ensured that communication is open and that they're following your >>> directions? >>> >>> Any thoughts on this topic would be truly helpfull. Thanks. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 9 23:59:05 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? On 4/9/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > George, > > My Samsung Haven is through Verizon. It is a very basic phone with the > exception of texting. It has no online capabilities, no MP3 player, > none of that stuff, but it is fully accessible. > > It was specifically designed for visually impaired and deaf users. > > The speech is a bit annoying because there is a pause between functions, > but I can still do everything on my own with it. > > There is also a Samsung Gusto which is the same phone except it has more > cool stuff like what you mention, and it is fully accessible. I have > not had the opportunity to play with a Gusto either. > > I would like something like an I-phone, but right now, cost is a bigger > factor than convenience. > > I am not sure what other companies offer the Samsung Haven and Gusto. > > Bridgit > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:01:35 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting discussion: Is Technology Turning > into Our Enemy? > Message-ID: <5FE5C464-7E1A-44BB-8E02-35BD4764A1E8 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Bridgit: > > I too do that. > > Even though I don't listen to vinal records, I still listen to CDs. > I have an iPod, and an iPhone which I use to listen to the music > collection I've put on there but there are still CDs in my room. > > And I use a note taker too. > > Think its faster in many ways to a computer--braille 2 contractions are > usable as a pose to writing everything out grade one, despite the fact > I'm quite fast at both. > > And yes, I won't mention names, but I knew a friend who spent all her > time on the phone, then Skype/Clango, and Twitter. > > Just to feel connected, and she used to just talk to random people from > around the net. > Not only is that bad, but in this case unsafe. > > And yes, as far as old tech, I've always used a brailler--its the only > tool my Vision Teacher allows for Math which I happen to like, > because it keeps all the equations at my fingertips without having to go > back and forth from braille display lines. > > > By the way: do you have a plain phone for AT&T? > > All I need is to be able to text and take calls. > Maybe put some music on it. > > Reason I'm asking is because I mostly use my iPhone for that--calls and > ocational texts, > and the iPod feature. > > I only use the internet for email, and even so I never type emails on > the touch keyboard. > > (preferibly if it has a quorty keyboard for texting) > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 00:35:34 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 20:35:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cell phones Message-ID: Hello, all, First, I would like to say that I have very much enjoyed the lively discussion on the role of technology in our lives, and I agree with the point that balance is key. Technology has no doubt opened many important doors for blind people, but we also need to be cautious about not relying on them excessively and not wasting too much our time on the various social media out there, such as Facebook and Twitter. I have definitely been guilty of both accounts on one occasion or another, and I know people, both sighted and blind, who have had similar experiences, so i'm glad that we are having this dialogue and raising awareness of this issue. On another note, I have noticed from the discussion that many people are looking for a cell phone with no bells or whistles, and I'm so happy to learn that I'm not alone in this quest. While I admire Apple's technology and its high priority in accessibility, I have no desire to learn to use a touch screen or pay for an expensive data plan; I also do not picture myself using a phone to do things other than making calls and send occasional texts. I have, however, been hard pressed to find such a basic phone that is also accessible. Some phones like the Samsung Haven Bridget mentioned are great for this purpose, but they seem to be exclusively carried by Verizon Wireless (I currently use T-mobile). I know that screen readers like Talks and Mobile Speaks are compatible with some earlier models of Nokia phones, but it's hard to locate them in the market as they are so out-of-date (I'm not interested in investing in the KNFB Mobile Reader at this point, so one of these phone-reader packages will not work for me). Has anyone found a good solution for this problem? Any suggestions would be much appreciated! Katie From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 10 04:31:32 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 00:31:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] powerpoints to text Message-ID: <97864EC6E02D41E3AC4E892308CF9ECC@OwnerPC> Hi all, I know this has come up before; but I forgot. I’d like to read powerpoint in word format so I don’t have to keep going to next slide and navigating the slide fields. So how do I save the powerpoint to text form? Thanks. Ashley From latinanewschic at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 04:40:44 2011 From: latinanewschic at gmail.com (Martha Harris) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 00:40:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] powerpoints to text In-Reply-To: <97864EC6E02D41E3AC4E892308CF9ECC@OwnerPC> References: <97864EC6E02D41E3AC4E892308CF9ECC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, If you open the program, hit alt f and go up to the publisher menu, that will give ou the options. You can hit right arror enter on the publish submenu, and you have options to package for cd, to microsoft word, ETC. Martha -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 12:31 AM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] powerpoints to text > Hi all, > > I know this has come up before; but I forgot. > I’d like to read powerpoint in word format so I don’t have to keep going > to next slide and navigating the slide fields. > > So how do I save the powerpoint to text form? > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/latinanewschic%40gmail.com > From tom.cramer1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 06:30:48 2011 From: tom.cramer1 at gmail.com (Tom) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 23:30:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people and "Catch" In-Reply-To: References: <00a801cbdf7c$db1b9db0$9152d910$@net> <005901cbdf97$71109900$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000301cbdfb5$6bfb5860$7001a8c0@domain.actdsltmp> <355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433013B25BB6C3@IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us> <7419D8AE795844599ADBB8777520695B@HP8730notebook> <000001cbe27c$fbf683d0$6401a8c0@Nikki> Message-ID: <4da14e9d.19028e0a.0cca.35ff@mx.google.com> Hi, Tom here hoping I don't ask a dumb question. I'd like to know if anyone has done this or not. I was hanging out with some of my school friends and one of them thought it'd be fun to play ball, a game of catch. The other thought it'd be fun but then they looked at me and figured I wouldn't play because I'm totally blind. I told them not to worry about it, and they just played catch for a while and then I had to go anyway. Anyone here play any ball or games like that? How could I have joined in or know where to throw or things like that? Just curious. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 10 14:22:09 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:22:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people and "Catch" In-Reply-To: <4da14e9d.19028e0a.0cca.35ff@mx.google.com> References: <00a801cbdf7c$db1b9db0$9152d910$@net> <005901cbdf97$71109900$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000301cbdfb5$6bfb5860$7001a8c0@domain.actdsltmp> <355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433013B25BB6C3@IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us> <7419D8AE795844599ADBB8777520695B@HP8730notebook> <000001cbe27c$fbf683d0$6401a8c0@Nikki> <4da14e9d.19028e0a.0cca.35ff@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Tom, try and get a beeping ball. If not possible, just have them warn you when they're throwing it to you so you can have your arms out ready to catch it. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:30 AM To: Tom Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people and "Catch" Hi, Tom here hoping I don't ask a dumb question. I'd like to know if anyone has done this or not. I was hanging out with some of my school friends and one of them thought it'd be fun to play ball, a game of catch. The other thought it'd be fun but then they looked at me and figured I wouldn't play because I'm totally blind. I told them not to worry about it, and they just played catch for a while and then I had to go anyway. Anyone here play any ball or games like that? How could I have joined in or know where to throw or things like that? Just curious. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 16:26:57 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 12:26:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] powerpoints to text In-Reply-To: References: <97864EC6E02D41E3AC4E892308CF9ECC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, There are two other ways of doing what you're talking about. One way is to hit control+shift+tab. This should convert the powerpoint to outline form. Then you just select, copy, and paste into a word document. Alternatively, if the powerpoint was e-mailed to you, click the link that says "View as HTML." This will give you straight text which you can then copy and paste into a word document. Hope this Helps, Patrick On 4/10/11, Martha Harris wrote: > Hi Ashley, > If you open the program, hit alt f and go up to the publisher menu, that > will give ou the options. You can hit right arror enter on the publish > submenu, and you have options to package for cd, to microsoft word, ETC. > > Martha > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 12:31 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] powerpoints to text > >> Hi all, >> >> I know this has come up before; but I forgot. >> I’d like to read powerpoint in word format so I don’t have to keep going >> to next slide and navigating the slide fields. >> >> So how do I save the powerpoint to text form? >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/latinanewschic%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 16:29:29 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 12:29:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people and "Catch" In-Reply-To: References: <00a801cbdf7c$db1b9db0$9152d910$@net> <005901cbdf97$71109900$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <000301cbdfb5$6bfb5860$7001a8c0@domain.actdsltmp> <355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433013B25BB6C3@IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us> <7419D8AE795844599ADBB8777520695B@HP8730notebook> <000001cbe27c$fbf683d0$6401a8c0@Nikki> <4da14e9d.19028e0a.0cca.35ff@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Tom, If you don't have a beeping ball or a bell ball, just have someone say "Coming to you!" when they're throwing you the ball. Similarly, if the person you want to throw to claps their hands or talks, you can throw to the sound of their voice. Patrick On 4/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Tom, try and get a beeping ball. If not possible, just have them warn you > when they're throwing it to you so you can have your arms out ready to catch > it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:30 AM > To: Tom > Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people and "Catch" > > Hi, > Tom here hoping I don't ask a dumb question. I'd like to know if anyone has > done this or not. > > I was hanging out with some of my school friends and one of them thought > it'd be fun to play ball, a game of catch. The other thought it'd be fun > but then they looked at me and figured I wouldn't play because I'm totally > blind. > I told them not to worry about it, and they just played catch for a while > and then I had to go anyway. > > Anyone here play any ball or games like that? How could I have joined in or > know where to throw or things like that? > Just curious. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From z.dreicer at emissives.com Sun Apr 10 17:08:20 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 11:08:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: no - I wish! Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: George, My Samsung Haven is through Verizon. It is a very basic phone with the exception of texting. It has no online capabilities, no MP3 player, none of that stuff, but it is fully accessible. It was specifically designed for visually impaired and deaf users. The speech is a bit annoying because there is a pause between functions, but I can still do everything on my own with it. There is also a Samsung Gusto which is the same phone except it has more cool stuff like what you mention, and it is fully accessible. I have not had the opportunity to play with a Gusto either. I would like something like an I-phone, but right now, cost is a bigger factor than convenience. I am not sure what other companies offer the Samsung Haven and Gusto. Bridgit Message: 14 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:01:35 -0400 From: Jorge Paez Message-ID: Social security was established to help different populations. Welfare and social security is a complex and intricate system that has become more and more complex over the years. Initially it was believed blind people could not support themselves so the government felt magnanimous and set stipulations specific to blind people. We can stay on disability for life; we can work and make more income each month than others receiving disability-- we can earn up to, I believe, $1640 per month before taxes and still receive disability whereas others can only earn $990 per month. My numbers may not be exact, but they are in the ball park. Now, at least for the blind, we view social security as a supplement especially since adaptive technology is expensive, and most of us can not work without some form of adaptive technology. Many, unfortunately, still would rather collect government assistance than seek employment though. I did not say everyone, but enough of us still have this mindset. Now, state agencies for the blind are suppose to assist with any training and technology you require to an extent. Each state differs on what, when and how they will spend money on clients. No state agency is legally obligated to purchase every piece of technology you ask for. Most of this depends on budget and what they deem appropriate. I knew an agency, now defunct, that would spend upwards to $3000 on CCTV's for clients, but it was difficult for clients to have their request for JAWS or Windoeyes approved. Because the attitude was that those with some vision were better off, this agency felt it was better to spend money on partials rather than on technology for totals who were not as capable. This is true, and it is not just an observation. When visiting the facility, I was told this to my face. Anyway, state agencies are not required to purchase everything we ask for even if they would serve a purpose for us. There are a lot of factors that play into this. This includes paying for college. Most agencies will cover state tuition, but if you choose to attend a private school, or an out-of-state school, they will either only pay up to what their state tuition is, or they will not pay for it at all. Now I pose a question. Some of you, and I add myself in this equation too, address the expense of adaptive technology, which it is expensive, and this is a reason why we should collect social security. However, how many of us have I-phones, I-Pads, Droids, and other portable devices? I doubt many of us had our state agency pay for these. We do need to prioritize at times. Obviously some of us have the means and desire to purchase cool items like I-phones, but we better not complain how our state agency won't buy some device. This is the sense of entitlement many of us blind people feel. We have come to a point where we expect certain things and certain advantages. It is great to have things set in place that can assist us, but we also have to realize that old fashioned work will get us what we want too. Before anyone bights my head off, I am not suggesting this is how we all are, and believe me, I know how expensive some technology is. I'm still running on Windows XP and MS Office 2003 because it is so damn expensive to buy this stuff. But consider how important some of our toys are, and think about if we can save to purchase our own stuff. Once we enter the "real world," we will have to fend for ourselves. We will be responsible for maintaining, upgrading and buying our own technology. So, I'm not really sure where I meant to go with. *smile* Just put it down as a crazy lady's rant. LOL Bridgit From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Apr 10 18:53:24 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 13:53:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have QWERTY keyboards. The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when texting. Bridgit Message: 22 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 19:15:13 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 15:15:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit: You are right on most points. One thing we have to keep in mind, and I think this has been said in several National speeches, is that we are not second class citizens, but neither are we above the sighted. I think the biggest complaint many people have is that on the one hand we have some lazy folks who think "I'm blind I can't do anything" (yes, I've seen that mentality before) and on the other hand we have the "I'm blind, so I deserve it" attitude. Neither of these are good, because on the one hand, one denigrates you, the other creates an image of elitism. And I think both ends have given the blind community a bad reputation in many people's minds. Let us just keep in mind that while yes, the legal system is there, it is not a support for our inability at certain times, to do reasonable things--such as be responsible for part of our technological costs. Sure I know its expensive, but like Bridget said, its hard work and determination that gets us places. Use the legal/funding resources you have, but don't get too used to it, because those who use up the system and never have enough character to get anywhere are exactly the people we, (I mean the NFB) does NOT support. Jorge On Apr 10, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Social security was established to help different populations. Welfare > and social security is a complex and intricate system that has become > more and more complex over the years. > > Initially it was believed blind people could not support themselves so > the government felt magnanimous and set stipulations specific to blind > people. We can stay on disability for life; we can work and make more > income each month than others receiving disability-- we can earn up to, > I believe, $1640 per month before taxes and still receive disability > whereas others can only earn $990 per month. My numbers may not be > exact, but they are in the ball park. > > Now, at least for the blind, we view social security as a supplement > especially since adaptive technology is expensive, and most of us can > not work without some form of adaptive technology. > > Many, unfortunately, still would rather collect government assistance > than seek employment though. I did not say everyone, but enough of us > still have this mindset. > > Now, state agencies for the blind are suppose to assist with any > training and technology you require to an extent. Each state differs on > what, when and how they will spend money on clients. > > No state agency is legally obligated to purchase every piece of > technology you ask for. Most of this depends on budget and what they > deem appropriate. > > I knew an agency, now defunct, that would spend upwards to $3000 on > CCTV's for clients, but it was difficult for clients to have their > request for JAWS or Windoeyes approved. Because the attitude was that > those with some vision were better off, this agency felt it was better > to spend money on partials rather than on technology for totals who were > not as capable. This is true, and it is not just an observation. When > visiting the facility, I was told this to my face. > > Anyway, state agencies are not required to purchase everything we ask > for even if they would serve a purpose for us. There are a lot of > factors that play into this. > > This includes paying for college. Most agencies will cover state > tuition, but if you choose to attend a private school, or an > out-of-state school, they will either only pay up to what their state > tuition is, or they will not pay for it at all. > > Now I pose a question. Some of you, and I add myself in this equation > too, address the expense of adaptive technology, which it is expensive, > and this is a reason why we should collect social security. However, > how many of us have I-phones, I-Pads, Droids, and other portable > devices? I doubt many of us had our state agency pay for these. We do > need to prioritize at times. Obviously some of us have the means and > desire to purchase cool items like I-phones, but we better not complain > how our state agency won't buy some device. > > This is the sense of entitlement many of us blind people feel. We have > come to a point where we expect certain things and certain advantages. > It is great to have things set in place that can assist us, but we also > have to realize that old fashioned work will get us what we want too. > > Before anyone bights my head off, I am not suggesting this is how we all > are, and believe me, I know how expensive some technology is. I'm still > running on Windows XP and MS Office 2003 because it is so damn expensive > to buy this stuff. But consider how important some of our toys are, and > think about if we can save to purchase our own stuff. > > Once we enter the "real world," we will have to fend for ourselves. We > will be responsible for maintaining, upgrading and buying our own > technology. > > So, I'm not really sure where I meant to go with. *smile* Just put it > down as a crazy lady's rant. LOL > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Sun Apr 10 19:26:04 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 12:26:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cell phones Message-ID: Hi katie. My phone is a Nokia 3650 phone. This phone was the latest smartphone back in 2003, and, obviously, is quite outdated now. It runs Talks version 2.0 (an old but compatible version), and it runs beautifully, I don't have any major problems with my phone. My teacher of the blind was so generous and bought this phone for me off E-bay and he also installed the version of Talks for me. So you might look around for a similar phone and see if you can afford a version of talks or mobile-speak that is suitable for that phone. Or perhaps you may ask around, see what you can find. Cheers, Humberto > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Katie Wang To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Date sent: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 20:35:34 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] accessible cell phones >Hello, all, > First, I would like to say that I have very much enjoyed the lively >discussion on the role of technology in our lives, and I agree with >the point that balance is key. Technology has no doubt opened many >important doors for blind people, but we also need to be cautious >about not relying on them excessively and not wasting too much our >time on the various social media out there, such as Facebook and >Twitter. I have definitely been guilty of both accounts on one >occasion or another, and I know people, both sighted and blind, who >have had similar experiences, so i'm glad that we are having this >dialogue and raising awareness of this issue. > On another note, I have noticed from the discussion that many people >are looking for a cell phone with no bells or whistles, and I'm so >happy to learn that I'm not alone in this quest. While I admire >Apple's technology and its high priority in accessibility, I have no >desire to learn to use a touch screen or pay for an expensive data >plan; I also do not picture myself using a phone to do things other >than making calls and send occasional texts. I have, however, been >hard pressed to find such a basic phone that is also accessible. Some >phones like the Samsung Haven Bridget mentioned are great for this >purpose, but they seem to be exclusively carried by Verizon Wireless >(I currently use T-mobile). I know that screen readers like Talks and >Mobile Speaks are compatible with some earlier models of Nokia phones, >but it's hard to locate them in the market as they are so out-of-date >(I'm not interested in investing in the KNFB Mobile Reader at this >point, so one of these phone-reader packages will not work for me). >Has anyone found a good solution for this problem? Any suggestions >would be much appreciated! > Katie >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From hannahgf11 at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 19:51:54 2011 From: hannahgf11 at gmail.com (Hannah) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 14:51:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4076555B-54E8-419A-95E9-8020901878FA@gmail.com> Hi. I have an Env3 which has a built in boice that makes it accessible. It is sold by Verizon Wireless. It has the standard number pad on the outside of the phone, and you can open up the phone and then you have a qwety keyboard. I can text message with the built in voice, but i can't use the internet with the built in voice. Hope that helps. Hannah Sent from my iPod On Apr 10, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number > pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have > QWERTY keyboards. > > The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters > correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when > texting. > > Bridgit > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf11%40gmail.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 19:57:14 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 15:57:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: <1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> References: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC> <1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hahahahahhahah I wish. We can justify all we want, but when it really comes down to it, it all depends on if some person. Who might or might not know anything about blindness, who sits behind a desk, says if we really need the technology. Example, I needed to upgrade to an APEX, but I had a BrailleNote MPower. Did I get it from OVR? Nope. Did I push to get this technology that would help me get through school? Absolutely. Instead I had to go out and find my own funding for this technology that is NOT cheap. I got that funding, and am now a proud owner of a APEX. And to be honest in the long run, its mine. OVR can not come back and take it away. I paid with it with my own money. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? Oh my! Technology is expensive. I thought rehab bought all adaptive technology if you justified it! -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? I have heard that funding in NJ for things like adaptive tech is pretty atrocious, so I can understand where you're coming from. This really is a complicated issue and what seems like a fair decision for one person might paralyze another's progress. On 4/9/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for > paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is > considered an impairment related expense. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no > need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college > and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be > considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival > mechanism. > > On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some >> parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of >> rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please >> reconsider this decision. >> Thank you, Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. >> My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively >> seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same >> token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your >> parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're >> attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? >> That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if >> you wanted to. >> >> On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force >> us >>> into this entitlement mentality. >>> >>> >>> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be >> implemented. >>> >>> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >>> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job >> there'd >>> be nothing to worry about. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, >>>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> >>>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and >> education >>>>> as >>>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I >> also >>>>> use >>>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>>> excess. >>>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. >> I >>>>> also >>>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having >> many >>>>> tools >>>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is >> critically >>>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess >> to sum >>>>> up >>>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to >> find a >>>>> job >>>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window >> dressing >>>>> around >>>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one >> is >>>>> on >>>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just >> because >>>>> one >>>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full >> of >>>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. >> Just >>>>> my >>>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some >> of >>>>> this >>>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. >> Because I >>>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is >> well. >>>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call >> sign >>>>> kd0iko. >>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>>> >>>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, >> and >>>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. >> Is >>>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We >> now >>>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >> within >>>>>> our reach." >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >> still >>>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics >> about >>>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who >> are >>>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many >> who are >>>>>> employed. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >> articulate >>>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. >> Some of >>>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good >> by >>>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery >> tomorrow. >>>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." >> Still >>>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and >> radio >>>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >> days >>>>>> of free long distance. >>>>>> >>>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most >> of >>>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for >> employment. >>>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from >> a >>>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, >> SSDI I, >>>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >> willing >>>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't >> challenge >>>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet >> for >>>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to >> communicate >>>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do >> their >>>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to >> be all >>>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical >> in >>>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping >> the >>>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to >> what >>>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >> life >>>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do >> these >>>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work >> ethic >>>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle >> it? Is >>>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent >> support, >>>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred >> interviews >>>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >> hearing >>>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections >> and >>>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world >> which is >>>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting >> us >>>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream >> of >>>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this >> dream? >>>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I >> look >>>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly >> obvious >>>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how >> many, >>>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so >> that >>>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but >> this >>>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind >> people >>>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what >> can >>>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can >> you >>>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>>> mindsets? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bridgit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 >> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg >> epaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. >> com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 >> 01:34:00 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6029 (20110409) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 10 20:49:13 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 16:49:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurninginto Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: <8FCE9CE8CDE8496A8D36427C54CD21D7@SerenaPC><1B41F2832AFF4FC88CB829A60AC3A689@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Marsha, I understand; they make the decission in the end. But if you stick to it and go up the chain of command they will often give in. Enjoy your Apex. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:57 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurninginto Our Enemy? Hahahahahhahah I wish. We can justify all we want, but when it really comes down to it, it all depends on if some person. Who might or might not know anything about blindness, who sits behind a desk, says if we really need the technology. Example, I needed to upgrade to an APEX, but I had a BrailleNote MPower. Did I get it from OVR? Nope. Did I push to get this technology that would help me get through school? Absolutely. Instead I had to go out and find my own funding for this technology that is NOT cheap. I got that funding, and am now a proud owner of a APEX. And to be honest in the long run, its mine. OVR can not come back and take it away. I paid with it with my own money. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is TechnologyTurning into Our Enemy? Oh my! Technology is expensive. I thought rehab bought all adaptive technology if you justified it! -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? I have heard that funding in NJ for things like adaptive tech is pretty atrocious, so I can understand where you're coming from. This really is a complicated issue and what seems like a fair decision for one person might paralyze another's progress. On 4/9/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Respectfully, even if parents are paying for college, SSI is helpful for > paying for adaptive technology, at least, in NJ. Adaptive tech is > considered an impairment related expense. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 2:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology > Turning into Our Enemy? > > Hi, > I said that if the parents are paying for college there is really no > need for SSI. I think if you're living on your own, going to college > and trying to find a job, that's different. Then it truly can be > considered a supplement, as its name implies, and is a good survival > mechanism. > > On 4/9/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> Me parents like mine are not going to pay for me to go to college. Some >> parents don't pay for college because they know that DRS (Department of >> rehabilitation) will pay for college if you are on SSI. Please >> reconsider this decision. >> Thank you, Koby. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Interesting topic for discussion: Is Technology >> Turning into Our Enemy? >> >> I agree that some limits should be imposed on those who can get SSI. >> My question to you guys is, how do you propose we prove we're actively >> seeking employment? Proving you're a student is easy, but by the same >> token you shouldn't necessarily qualify if you're living with your >> parents and having them pay college expenses, such as if you're >> attending a community college. But proving you're looking for a job? >> That sounds a little bit more difficult, and probably easy to abuse if >> you wanted to. >> >> On 4/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> I think your idea only sounds extreme because society's tried to force >> us >>> into this entitlement mentality. >>> >>> >>> You're 100% right on every point, and I think that should be >> implemented. >>> >>> As far as you were saying about the couple you knew with kids, >>> as long as they could proove that they were actively seeking a job >> there'd >>> be nothing to worry about. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Marsha, >>>> I'm on SSI and I'm a college student. I use it to survive and enjoy >>>> life every once in a while (anyone ever said laser tag isn't a fun >>>> date activity for a blind person? It was brilliant last night!) So >>>> I'm not condemning the idea, or the ideal purpose of the system. But >>>> you know that there are way too many people who abuse it- I won't >>>> insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see it. So the >>>> question I posed is simply this: would it be better to only give SSI >>>> to students and people actively seeking employment? To respond to >>>> Bridget's point, we could include general unemployment checks that go >>>> out every month and lump that in with SSI- only give unemployment to >>>> those actively looking for jobs. I'm not saying I agree with the >>>> idea, although to be honest it's got a certain logic to it. But I do >>>> think it's probably a bit extreme. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> >>>> On 4/8/11, Maurice Mines wrote: >>>>> Hello, I think the word balance is a very in port and word and >> education >>>>> as >>>>> well's life. I am a student, I am also an amateur radio operator I >> also >>>>> use >>>>> Facebook, and twitter. What I am not is one to use any of these two >>>>> excess. >>>>> I also have and have always had on my desk a Perkins braille writer. >> I >>>>> also >>>>> possess a notetaker or whatever I need it. I believe that having >> many >>>>> tools >>>>> in our toolbox to get the work done that we must get done is >> critically >>>>> important. I'm also looking for work. I've also done work. I guess >> to sum >>>>> up >>>>> some of things I've said here is balance is important in order to >> find a >>>>> job >>>>> I must want to work. All of the other things are just window >> dressing >>>>> around >>>>> the central issue. As others have said on this list just because one >> is >>>>> on >>>>> some form of assistance does not make him, or her lazy. And just >> because >>>>> one >>>>> has all the tools didn't necessary to live in today's world is full >> of >>>>> technology as it is. Does not make one instantly dependent on them. >> Just >>>>> my >>>>> own take on all of this. PS I am using dictation software, so some >> of >>>>> this >>>>> may not quite turn out like the way it's supposed to turn out. >> Because I >>>>> also have an additional disability on top of blind us. Hope all is >> well. >>>>> Thank you very much for reading this Maurice, amateur radio call >> sign >>>>> kd0iko. >>>>> On Apr 8, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello NABSTERS, >>>>>> >>>>>> This was posted on another list. It is a topic I find interesting, >> and >>>>>> one we should consider and discuss. I am curious to hear student >>>>>> opinions, and what your experience has been regarding technology. >> Is >>>>>> there a balance in how we use this technology? >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the things I like in your note was your observation that "We >> now >>>>>> have the opportunity to explore a future of our own making. Jobs, >>>>>> school and families are not dreams we long for, but are realities >> within >>>>>> our reach." >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the questions I've been struggling with is how to start a >>>>>> dialogue, probably in the Braille Monitor, about whether these are >> still >>>>>> the widely-shared dreams of blind people. I read the statistics >> about >>>>>> our unemployment, and in my job searches have certainly encountered >>>>>> discrimination, but I can't tell you of very many Missourians who >> are >>>>>> actively out looking for work. Neither can I tell you about many >> who are >>>>>> employed. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my younger days there were blind people who were smart and >> articulate >>>>>> who simply would not tackle the challenge of going to get a job. >> Some of >>>>>> them were amateur radio operators and spent their days doing good >> by >>>>>> taking Western Union style messages and sending them free of charge >>>>>> across the country and the world. The message might be as simple as >>>>>> happy birthday or as complicated as "I'm going in for surgery >> tomorrow. >>>>>> I will let you know how it goes. I will appreciate your prayers." >> Still >>>>>> other amateur radio operators would connect their telephone and >> radio >>>>>> and help people talk to loved ones. This, of course, was before the >> days >>>>>> of free long distance. >>>>>> >>>>>> The thing I want to focus on here was that the folks who spent most >> of >>>>>> their time doing this substituted these volunteer tasks for >> employment. >>>>>> They were not seeking jobs. They were getting fulfillment but from >> a >>>>>> very different source because our society, whether through SSI, >> SSDI I, >>>>>> the Missouri blind pension, or some other program, was perfectly >> willing >>>>>> to give them at least a minimal level of support and didn't >> challenge >>>>>> them with the tough question "Why aren't you employed?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Today I think I see our young blind folks substituting the Internet >> for >>>>>> ham radio. Maybe they are all about building websites to >> communicate >>>>>> something special they believe they know about blindness. Some do >> their >>>>>> own radio shows. Some make podcasts. The shows and topics seem to >> be all >>>>>> over the place. On one podcast I follow, which is usually technical >> in >>>>>> nature, one person put up a recording demonstrating how to change a >>>>>> diaper, while another produced a podcast of his dog guide popping >> the >>>>>> bubbles that are found in shrink wrap. Both were similar--lots of >>>>>> rustling plastic but not a lot of information. I do not object to >> what >>>>>> anyone wants to do for entertainment, but my concern is that these >>>>>> playtime activities are being substituted for what I see as a major >> life >>>>>> activity and responsibility, that being to earn a living and do >> these >>>>>> other things as time allows. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the question I would like to explore is whether the work >> ethic >>>>>> which burned in so many folks of my generation still is prevalently >>>>>> found today. If not, who put out the fire and how do we rekindle >> it? Is >>>>>> our safety net frequently being used as a means of permanent >> support, >>>>>> and, if it is, is there something we can and should do about it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some folks I know claim they had to do upwards of a hundred >> interviews >>>>>> to get their first job. Is this still true today? If so, I'm not >> hearing >>>>>> about it. My fear is that, with all of the civil rights protections >> and >>>>>> advances in technology, we still have a significant number of >>>>>> intelligent blind people who aren't taking advantage of a world >> which is >>>>>> more receptive today than ever it has been in the past to getting >> us >>>>>> employed and accepting us as capable human beings in society. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the dream we share is worth dreaming and that what we dream >> of >>>>>> is attainable. Are there more effective ways for us to sell this >> dream? >>>>>> If so, how can our newsletters and our Braille Monitor help? As I >> look >>>>>> at the most recent issue of the students late, it is perfectly >> obvious >>>>>> to me that some still buy the dream. The question really is how >> many, >>>>>> and are there better ways for us to sell the dream of equality so >> that >>>>>> more young folks act on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see technology being the downfall for society in general, but >> this >>>>>> post presents a very serious issue. We know far too many blind >> people >>>>>> still refuse to believe in complete independence, but how is this >>>>>> reliance on technology affecting the situation? >>>>>> >>>>>> What are student thoughts? Do you see this trend, and if so, what >> can >>>>>> be done to tackle it? What areas do you think need work, and can >> you >>>>>> propose any ideas to change a larger population of blind peoples >>>>>> mindsets? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bridgit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40 >> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 >> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorg >> epaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >> gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail. >> com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3561 - Release Date: 04/09/11 >> 01:34:00 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6029 (20110409) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kat.bottner at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 23:08:10 2011 From: kat.bottner at gmail.com (Kat Bottner) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:08:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: <4076555B-54E8-419A-95E9-8020901878FA@gmail.com> References: <4076555B-54E8-419A-95E9-8020901878FA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44B8911CA7D84D6397EE7BE5DD788D31@KatPC> Hey all, I too have the LGENV3, and yes it's true that the internet feature of the phone will not work with the kind of speech software that is built in the phone. I not sure, but I don't think that Verizon Wireless even carries the LGEVN3 anymore, but then again I may be wrong. I'm not due for an upgrade until the year 2012, but I'm looking for a phone like the ENV3, but it has the ability to let you be able to see who texted you if you missed the text message that was sent to you. Currently the ENV3 doesn't let you go back in your inbox and see who the text message is from, it just reads the message out loud to you, and not the time or who the message is from. I don't think any LG phones from Verizon currently have this option. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Hi. I have an Env3 which has a built in boice that makes it accessible. It is sold by Verizon Wireless. It has the standard number pad on the outside of the phone, and you can open up the phone and then you have a qwety keyboard. I can text message with the built in voice, but i can't use the internet with the built in voice. Hope that helps. Hannah Sent from my iPod On Apr 10, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number > pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have > QWERTY keyboards. > > The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters > correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when > texting. > > Bridgit > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf11%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail. com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Apr 10 23:11:09 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:11:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader for Sale Message-ID: <20110410231109.3126.64428@domU-12-31-38-04-E5-94.compute-1.internal> Fellow Federationists: I have a KNFB Reader for sale. I would prefer to sell the whole package as one unit, but would be willing to sell it in parts if needed. So, for example, if you wanted just the N82 itself without the KNFB Reader software, I'm willing to talk about it. The reader is an N82 running the latest firmwear available for this unit. The phone itself includes a charger, a memory card, a data cable, a silicon protector, and maybe even some earphones with an FM reciever in them (I have them somewhere, but am not sure where exactly). In terms of software, the phone includes the KNFB Reader software, Loadstone, Talks, QuickOffice, and Walking Hotspot. So, your phone would therefore be a reader, an accessible phone, a note taker (you'll want a bluetooth keyboard for this function costing $60 online), an orientation device and a portable hotspot turning your wireless carrier's data connection into a wireless hotspot. The phone is in great condition considering that I bought it in late 2008 and used it quite heavily until quite recently. when i say "heavily," that just means that I've used it a lot, but there is no abuse or anything. There's just a slight scratch on the phone's face, but that's it in terms of damage. I'd like the phone to sell for $850 considering all the various paid licenses that are on it; I basically took the going rate for the hardware and software and divided these costs in half. Any questions? Please e-mail me at loneblindjedi at samobile.net. I'd like to get rid of this thing ASAP, especially since i'm not using it anymore and want it to get into the hands of a blind person who would benefit from its use. Most Respectfully Submitted, Jedi Moerke -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 10 23:22:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:22:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: <44B8911CA7D84D6397EE7BE5DD788D31@KatPC> References: <4076555B-54E8-419A-95E9-8020901878FA@gmail.com> <44B8911CA7D84D6397EE7BE5DD788D31@KatPC> Message-ID: <25AC03F0B8724515905F37EB0ABB8ECB@OwnerPC> Other than the internet inaccesisibility, is the NV3 good? Can you send texts with it. You said it read texts to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kat Bottner Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:08 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Hey all, I too have the LGENV3, and yes it's true that the internet feature of the phone will not work with the kind of speech software that is built in the phone. I not sure, but I don't think that Verizon Wireless even carries the LGEVN3 anymore, but then again I may be wrong. I'm not due for an upgrade until the year 2012, but I'm looking for a phone like the ENV3, but it has the ability to let you be able to see who texted you if you missed the text message that was sent to you. Currently the ENV3 doesn't let you go back in your inbox and see who the text message is from, it just reads the message out loud to you, and not the time or who the message is from. I don't think any LG phones from Verizon currently have this option. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Hi. I have an Env3 which has a built in boice that makes it accessible. It is sold by Verizon Wireless. It has the standard number pad on the outside of the phone, and you can open up the phone and then you have a qwety keyboard. I can text message with the built in voice, but i can't use the internet with the built in voice. Hope that helps. Hannah Sent from my iPod On Apr 10, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number > pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have > QWERTY keyboards. > > The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters > correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when > texting. > > Bridgit > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf11%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail. com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sun Apr 10 23:44:08 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 16:44:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: <20110410234337.HJSC25469.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Ashley: yes you can send texts with the NV 3 phone. It has a qwerty keyboard as well as a number pad. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:22:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone >Other than the internet inaccesisibility, is the NV3 good? >Can you send texts with it. You said it read texts to you. >Ashley >-----Original Message----- >From: Kat Bottner >Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:08 PM >To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone >Hey all, >I too have the LGENV3, and yes it's true that the internet feature of the >phone will not work with the kind of speech software that is built in the >phone. I not sure, but I don't think that Verizon Wireless even carries the >LGEVN3 anymore, but then again I may be wrong. >I'm not due for an upgrade until the year 2012, but I'm looking for a phone >like the ENV3, but it has the ability to let you be able to see who texted >you if you missed the text message that was sent to you. Currently the ENV3 >doesn't let you go back in your inbox and see who the text message is from, >it just reads the message out loud to you, and not the time or who the >message is from. I don't think any LG phones from Verizon currently have >this option. >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Hannah >Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:52 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone >Hi. I have an Env3 which has a built in boice that makes it accessible. >It is sold by Verizon Wireless. It has the standard number pad on the >outside of the phone, and you can open up the phone and then you have a >qwety keyboard. I can text message with the built in voice, but i can't use >the internet with the built in voice. Hope that helps. >Hannah >Sent from my iPod >On Apr 10, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number >> pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have >> QWERTY keyboards. >> The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters >> correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when >> texting. >> Bridgit >> Message: 22 >> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone >> Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 1%40gmail.c >om >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottn er%40gmail. >com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 00:00:38 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 18:00:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Interesting discussion: Is Technology Turning into Our Enemy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jorge, I won't resort to naming names. But I know plenty of the kind of people you're describing in the NFB. I wish the national organization would at least address the issue although, in fairness to them, there's not much they can do about it. Best, Kirt On 4/10/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Bridgit: > > You are right on most points. > One thing we have to keep in mind, and I think this has been said in several > National speeches, > is that > we are not second class citizens, > but neither are we above the sighted. > I think the biggest complaint many people have is that on the one hand we > have some lazy folks who think "I'm blind I can't do anything" (yes, I've > seen that mentality before) and on the other hand we have the "I'm blind, so > I deserve it" attitude. > Neither of these are good, > because on the one hand, > one denigrates you, > the other creates an image of elitism. > And I think both ends have given the blind community a bad reputation in > many people's minds. > > Let us just keep in mind that while yes, the legal system is there, it is > not a support for our inability at certain times, to do reasonable > things--such as be responsible for part of our technological costs. > Sure I know its expensive, > but like Bridget said, its hard work and determination that gets us places. > > Use the legal/funding resources you have, > but don't get too used to it, > because those who use up the system and never have enough character to get > anywhere are exactly the people we, (I mean the NFB) does NOT support. > > Jorge > > > > On Apr 10, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > >> Social security was established to help different populations. Welfare >> and social security is a complex and intricate system that has become >> more and more complex over the years. >> >> Initially it was believed blind people could not support themselves so >> the government felt magnanimous and set stipulations specific to blind >> people. We can stay on disability for life; we can work and make more >> income each month than others receiving disability-- we can earn up to, >> I believe, $1640 per month before taxes and still receive disability >> whereas others can only earn $990 per month. My numbers may not be >> exact, but they are in the ball park. >> >> Now, at least for the blind, we view social security as a supplement >> especially since adaptive technology is expensive, and most of us can >> not work without some form of adaptive technology. >> >> Many, unfortunately, still would rather collect government assistance >> than seek employment though. I did not say everyone, but enough of us >> still have this mindset. >> >> Now, state agencies for the blind are suppose to assist with any >> training and technology you require to an extent. Each state differs on >> what, when and how they will spend money on clients. >> >> No state agency is legally obligated to purchase every piece of >> technology you ask for. Most of this depends on budget and what they >> deem appropriate. >> >> I knew an agency, now defunct, that would spend upwards to $3000 on >> CCTV's for clients, but it was difficult for clients to have their >> request for JAWS or Windoeyes approved. Because the attitude was that >> those with some vision were better off, this agency felt it was better >> to spend money on partials rather than on technology for totals who were >> not as capable. This is true, and it is not just an observation. When >> visiting the facility, I was told this to my face. >> >> Anyway, state agencies are not required to purchase everything we ask >> for even if they would serve a purpose for us. There are a lot of >> factors that play into this. >> >> This includes paying for college. Most agencies will cover state >> tuition, but if you choose to attend a private school, or an >> out-of-state school, they will either only pay up to what their state >> tuition is, or they will not pay for it at all. >> >> Now I pose a question. Some of you, and I add myself in this equation >> too, address the expense of adaptive technology, which it is expensive, >> and this is a reason why we should collect social security. However, >> how many of us have I-phones, I-Pads, Droids, and other portable >> devices? I doubt many of us had our state agency pay for these. We do >> need to prioritize at times. Obviously some of us have the means and >> desire to purchase cool items like I-phones, but we better not complain >> how our state agency won't buy some device. >> >> This is the sense of entitlement many of us blind people feel. We have >> come to a point where we expect certain things and certain advantages. >> It is great to have things set in place that can assist us, but we also >> have to realize that old fashioned work will get us what we want too. >> >> Before anyone bights my head off, I am not suggesting this is how we all >> are, and believe me, I know how expensive some technology is. I'm still >> running on Windows XP and MS Office 2003 because it is so damn expensive >> to buy this stuff. But consider how important some of our toys are, and >> think about if we can save to purchase our own stuff. >> >> Once we enter the "real world," we will have to fend for ourselves. We >> will be responsible for maintaining, upgrading and buying our own >> technology. >> >> So, I'm not really sure where I meant to go with. *smile* Just put it >> down as a crazy lady's rant. LOL >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kat.bottner at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 01:53:56 2011 From: kat.bottner at gmail.com (Kat Bottner) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:53:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: <25AC03F0B8724515905F37EB0ABB8ECB@OwnerPC> References: <4076555B-54E8-419A-95E9-8020901878FA@gmail.com><44B8911CA7D84D6397EE7BE5DD788D31@KatPC> <25AC03F0B8724515905F37EB0ABB8ECB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <0B184728371E4DD6BCA3BE89A3748BF7@KatPC> Hey all, Yes, you can send texts independently with the ENV3, but you can't go back and see what you've written, so you have to do it from memory. For example like the I phone I think you can go letter by letter to see what you've written, but not with the LG ENV3. I hope all this information helps. Take Care, Kat -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Other than the internet inaccesisibility, is the NV3 good? Can you send texts with it. You said it read texts to you. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kat Bottner Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:08 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Hey all, I too have the LGENV3, and yes it's true that the internet feature of the phone will not work with the kind of speech software that is built in the phone. I not sure, but I don't think that Verizon Wireless even carries the LGEVN3 anymore, but then again I may be wrong. I'm not due for an upgrade until the year 2012, but I'm looking for a phone like the ENV3, but it has the ability to let you be able to see who texted you if you missed the text message that was sent to you. Currently the ENV3 doesn't let you go back in your inbox and see who the text message is from, it just reads the message out loud to you, and not the time or who the message is from. I don't think any LG phones from Verizon currently have this option. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Hi. I have an Env3 which has a built in boice that makes it accessible. It is sold by Verizon Wireless. It has the standard number pad on the outside of the phone, and you can open up the phone and then you have a qwety keyboard. I can text message with the built in voice, but i can't use the internet with the built in voice. Hope that helps. Hannah Sent from my iPod On Apr 10, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number > pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have > QWERTY keyboards. > > The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters > correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when > texting. > > Bridgit > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf11%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail. com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail. com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 04:01:37 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:01:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Message-ID: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> Hi all, I have a Braille Note m’power. It has several ports. So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the BrailleNote. I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, and I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like to read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the BrailleNote, let me know. Thanks. Ashley From z.dreicer at emissives.com Mon Apr 11 04:08:24 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 22:08:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: i used to have the env3 hannah Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannah wrote: The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal number pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that have QWERTY keyboards. The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since letters correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode when texting. Bridgit Message: 22 Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 From: Kirt Manwaring yes, though I just said Ashley-I prefer the haven to the env3 because the haven has everything accessible.. Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: hey, you will be wanting the samsung haven or samsung gusto. Write me off list for more info Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kat Bottner" when=20you=20go=20to=20save=20it=20(space=20s)=20then=20do=20backspace=20x= =20for=20the=20save=20 as=20type.=20=20There's=20a=20braillenote=20list=20I'm=20on,=20to,=20you=20= can=20join=20at=20 http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote Sent=20from=20my=20BRAILLENOTE=20Apex =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20 References: <4da27f7c.053a2b0a.5fa1.0e00SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I love my Samsung Haven! It's great. I used to have a smart phone with Mobile speak, and it froze all the time. This phone is great. It tells me if I don't have service and if the battery is low. I really love it! I wouldn't get an Iphone for anything. This is simple to use and has no touch screen. It also doesn't cost as much. Perfect. On 4/10/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: > hey, you will be wanting the samsung haven or samsung gusto. > Write me off list for more info > > Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kat Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:08:10 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > > Hey all, > I too have the LGENV3, and yes it's true that the internet > feature of the > phone will not work with the kind of speech software that is > built in the > phone. I not sure, but I don't think that Verizon Wireless even > carries the > LGEVN3 anymore, but then again I may be wrong. > I'm not due for an upgrade until the year 2012, but I'm looking > for a phone > like the ENV3, but it has the ability to let you be able to see > who texted > you if you missed the text message that was sent to you. > Currently the ENV3 > doesn't let you go back in your inbox and see who the text > message is from, > it just reads the message out loud to you, and not the time or > who the > message is from. I don't think any LG phones from Verizon > currently have > this option. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Hannah > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > > Hi. I have an Env3 which has a built in boice that makes it > accessible. > It is sold by Verizon Wireless. It has the standard number pad > on the > outside of the phone, and you can open up the phone and then you > have a > qwety keyboard. I can text message with the built in voice, but > i can't use > the internet with the built in voice. Hope that helps. > Hannah > > Sent from my iPod > > On Apr 10, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter > wrote: > > The Samsung Haven and Gusto are standard phones with the normal > number > pad. They are not like Blackberrys or other similar phones that > have > QWERTY keyboards. > > The texting is pretty easy with a standard number pad since > letters > correspond with each number, and you can select the Word mode > when > texting. > > Bridgit > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:59:05 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Does the haven have a qwerty keyboard? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottn > er%40gmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer > %40emissives.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Apr 11 11:07:27 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:07:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> Message-ID: Just received this E-mail. Blessings, Joshua ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view this email as a webpage. http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab if you no longer wish to receive our emails. RFB&D® is Changing Its Name TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ April 2011 Dear Member, I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is not something we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with scores of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the current state of the organization and chart its future. First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our members. Our research and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change come directly from individuals just like you: * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including individuals with many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading are barriers to their learning. * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn differently" has grown significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or dyslexic. Our current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who could benefit from our services. * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast majority of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began using RFB&D in second grade said: "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They don't want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal access and opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes directly to the heart of supporting them. We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the future and hope you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your community to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with tools for educational success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and our NEW APPLE APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in your support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve even more individuals in the future. Andrew Friedman President & CEO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 25% ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making Reading Accessible for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, RFB&D®, Learning Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all trademarks and service marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward this email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | 08540 From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 12:51:59 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 08:51:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <78DEE24A53F74D3A939B08FC8DB8F77E@Cptr233> If you have a txt, doc, or rtf file on your thumb drive. You don't need to convert it. The BN can read it. If you do want to convert it, move or copy the file from the thumb drive to the BN memory. Open the file, and then use the Spacebar and the letter "S", that will bring up the save menu. There you can choose which file type you want. It will ask if you want to rename the file. You can find instructions on how to do this and more in the user guide that's on the BN. HTH Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 12:02 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Hi all, I have a Braille Note m'power. It has several ports. So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the BrailleNote. I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, and I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I'd like to read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the BrailleNote, let me know. Thanks. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From z.dreicer at emissives.com Mon Apr 11 12:51:34 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:51:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: don't you know it, Julie:) Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie McGinnity wrote: hey, you will be wanting the samsung haven or samsung gusto. Write me off list for more info Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kat Bottner" References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> Message-ID: <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the word Blind in there. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name Just received this E-mail. Blessings, Joshua ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view this email as a webpage. http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from us. http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab if you no longer wish to receive our emails. RFB&D® is Changing Its Name TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ April 2011 Dear Member, I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is not something we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with scores of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the current state of the organization and chart its future. First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our members. Our research and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change come directly from individuals just like you: * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including individuals with many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading are barriers to their learning. * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn differently" has grown significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or dyslexic. Our current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who could benefit from our services. * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast majority of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began using RFB&D in second grade said: "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They don't want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal access and opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes directly to the heart of supporting them. We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the future and hope you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your community to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with tools for educational success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and our NEW APPLE APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in your support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve even more individuals in the future. Andrew Friedman President & CEO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 25% ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making Reading Accessible for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, RFB&D®, Learning Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all trademarks and service marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward this email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | 08540 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 13:29:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:29:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: <78DEE24A53F74D3A939B08FC8DB8F77E@Cptr233> References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> <78DEE24A53F74D3A939B08FC8DB8F77E@Cptr233> Message-ID: Thanks; I forgot about the space s command. -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 8:51 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If you have a txt, doc, or rtf file on your thumb drive. You don't need to convert it. The BN can read it. If you do want to convert it, move or copy the file from the thumb drive to the BN memory. Open the file, and then use the Spacebar and the letter "S", that will bring up the save menu. There you can choose which file type you want. It will ask if you want to rename the file. You can find instructions on how to do this and more in the user guide that's on the BN. HTH Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 12:02 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Hi all, I have a Braille Note m'power. It has several ports. So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the BrailleNote. I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, and I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I'd like to read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the BrailleNote, let me know. Thanks. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6031 (20110410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Mon Apr 11 17:36:33 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:36:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With the Sansung Haven and Gusto, you can independently do everything including texting, checking your text inbox and reading what you write and what others send you. All the functions are accessible. The speech is to slow for my liking, but it is great to have a phone that is completely accessible. I can access each menu and do everything on my own. The Gusto does have internet abilities, but like I said, I have not had the opportunity to play with a Gusto so I am not sure if the internet is accessible, though I have been told it is. Bridgit Message: 14 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:53:56 -0400 From: "Kat Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: <0B184728371E4DD6BCA3BE89A3748BF7 at KatPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey all, Yes, you can send texts independently with the ENV3, but you can't go back and see what you've written, so you have to do it from memory. For example like the I phone I think you can go letter by letter to see what you've written, but not with the LG ENV3. I hope all this information helps. Take Care, Kat From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 18:14:42 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:14:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for Student Seminar Reports Message-ID: Hi all, It is my understanding that several of our state student divisons happened to have seminars, annual business meetings, or other activities this past weekend. We'd like to publish a special NABS bulletin highlighting all the exciting student events that happened across the country last weekend. I'm asking for your help in composing this bulletin. If you had a student event last weekend, or anytime in the last month, please write up a brief (paragraph or two) report on what you did, where it was, who came, etc. Please send your reports to me by Saturday, April 16, at 9:00 p.m. EST. You can send them to me at nabs.president at gmail.com This is a great way for you to tell the national NABS what's been happening in your state! Looking forward to reading all your reports. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Apr 11 18:30:26 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:30:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Yup! It's politically correct garbage. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. > Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the word > Blind in there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Just received this E-mail. > Blessings, Joshua > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu > > Having trouble viewing this email? > Click here to view this email as a webpage. > http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I > You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording for > the > Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email > from > us. > http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F > You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > if you no longer wish to receive our emails. > > > RFB&D® is Changing Its Name > > TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > April 2011 > Dear Member, > I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that > Recording > for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. > Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & > Dyslexic, > with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is > not something > we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with > scores > of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the > current state > of the organization and chart its future. > First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our > members. Our research > and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change > come directly > from individuals just like you: > > * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including > individuals with > many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading > are barriers > to their learning. > > * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn > differently" has grown > significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or dyslexic. > Our > current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who > could > benefit from our services. > > * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast > majority > of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. > > When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began > using > RFB&D in second grade said: > > "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I > > don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" > > This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They > don't > want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal > access and > opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes > directly > to the heart of supporting them. > > We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the > future and hope > you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your > community > to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with > tools for educational > success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org > [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] > to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and > our NEW APPLE > APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. > > Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in > your > support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve > even more individuals > in the future. > Andrew Friedman > President & CEO > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > 25% > > ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making > Reading Accessible > for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, > RFB&D®, Learning > Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all > trademarks and service > marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Forward this email > http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 > > > This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. > > Update Profile/Email Address > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > > > Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > > > Privacy Policy: > http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp > > > > > Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | 08540 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Apr 11 20:52:17 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:52:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Room for National Convention Message-ID: >From: "Beverly Hunter" >To: >Subject: Room for National Convention >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:45:46 -0400 >Content-Type: >multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01CBF846.60BE6240" > >David, will you post the following: > >If anyone has a room at the Rosen Shingle Creek hotel that they >won't be using, please contact me at >bhunter at nfbga.org > >The dates I need are from July 2-9. > >Hope to hear from someone soon. > > >Beverly Hunter, Outreach Manager >Georgia NFB-NEWSLINE(R) >The Georgia Audible Universal Access Service > >National Federation of the Blind of Georgia >"Everyday People, Living Life Everyday" > >315 West Ponce de Leon Avenue >Suite 1020 >Decatur, Georgia 30030 > >(404) 371-1000 ext. 23 (Voice) >(404) 432-5929 (cell) >(404) 371-1002 (Fax) >(866) 316-3242 (Toll Free) >bhunter at nfbga.org > > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 21:04:09 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:04:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com> Ashley: You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. Jorge On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, wrote: > Hi all, > I have a Braille Note m’power. > It has several ports. > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the BrailleNote. > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, and > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like to read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the BrailleNote, let me know. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 21:09:29 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:09:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Same here. On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, wrote: > Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. > Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the word Blind in there. > > -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Just received this E-mail. > Blessings, Joshua > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu > > Having trouble viewing this email? > Click here to view this email as a webpage. > http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I > You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording for the > Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from > us. > http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F > You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > if you no longer wish to receive our emails. > > > RFB&D® is Changing Its Name > > TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > April 2011 > Dear Member, > I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that Recording > for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. > Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, > with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is > not something > we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with scores > of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the > current state > of the organization and chart its future. > First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our > members. Our research > and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change > come directly > from individuals just like you: > > * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including > individuals with > many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading > are barriers > to their learning. > > * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn > differently" has grown > significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or dyslexic. Our > current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who could > benefit from our services. > > * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast majority > of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. > > When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began using > RFB&D in second grade said: > > "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I > > don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" > > This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They don't > want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal > access and > opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes directly > to the heart of supporting them. > > We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the > future and hope > you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your community > to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with > tools for educational > success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org > [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] > to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and > our NEW APPLE > APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. > > Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in your > support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve > even more individuals > in the future. > Andrew Friedman > President & CEO > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > 25% > > ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making > Reading Accessible > for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, > RFB&D®, Learning > Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all > trademarks and service > marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Forward this email > http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 > > > This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. > > Update Profile/Email Address > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > > > Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > > > Privacy Policy: > http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp > > > > > Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | 08540 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 21:21:18 2011 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:21:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, If your files are in Microsoft Word .doc format, Braillenote should be able to open them and display them. However, I know that it gets a little quirky with these files sometimes so what I would do to translate is open the file then press space with S or control with S, depending on which model you have, then at the file name prompt press space with X or control with X repeatedly to cycle through the different file types until you reach the one you want. Then type a file name and you should be good to go. Best, Dezman On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:01 PM, wrote: > Hi all, > I have a Braille Note m’power. > It has several ports. > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put > files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 21:35:36 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 million congressional earmarks. Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name Same here. On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, wrote: > Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. > Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the > word Blind in there. > > -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Just received this E-mail. > Blessings, Joshua > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu > > Having trouble viewing this email? > Click here to view this email as a webpage. > http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I > You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording > for the > Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving > email from > us. > http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F > You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > if you no longer wish to receive our emails. > > > RFB&D® is Changing Its Name > > TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > April 2011 > Dear Member, > I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that > Recording > for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. > Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & > Dyslexic, > with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is > not something > we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with > scores > of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the > current state > of the organization and chart its future. > First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our > members. Our research > and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change > come directly > from individuals just like you: > > * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including > individuals with > many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading > are barriers > to their learning. > > * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn > differently" has grown > significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or > dyslexic. Our > current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who > could > benefit from our services. > > * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast > majority > of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. > > When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began > using > RFB&D in second grade said: > > "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I > > don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" > > This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They > don't > want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal > access and > opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes > directly > to the heart of supporting them. > > We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the > future and hope > you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your > community > to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with > tools for educational > success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org > [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] > to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and > our NEW APPLE > APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. > > Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in > your > support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve > even more individuals > in the future. > Andrew Friedman > President & CEO > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > 25% > > ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making > Reading Accessible > for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, > RFB&D®, Learning > Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all > trademarks and service > marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Forward this email > http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 > > > This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. > > Update Profile/Email Address > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > > > Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) > http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab > > > Privacy Policy: > http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp > > > > > Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | > 08540 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Apr 11 21:42:21 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:42:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I'm not going to! I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 million > congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability > sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Same here. > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, > wrote: > >> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >> word Blind in there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Just received this E-mail. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >> >> Having trouble viewing this email? >> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >> for the >> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >> email from >> us. >> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >> >> >> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >> >> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> April 2011 >> Dear Member, >> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >> Recording >> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >> Dyslexic, >> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >> not something >> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >> scores >> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >> current state >> of the organization and chart its future. >> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >> members. Our research >> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >> come directly >> from individuals just like you: >> >> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >> individuals with >> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >> are barriers >> to their learning. >> >> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >> differently" has grown >> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >> dyslexic. Our >> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who >> >> could >> benefit from our services. >> >> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >> majority >> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >> >> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began >> using >> RFB&D in second grade said: >> >> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >> >> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >> >> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They >> >> don't >> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >> access and >> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >> directly >> to the heart of supporting them. >> >> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >> future and hope >> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >> community >> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >> tools for educational >> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >> our NEW APPLE >> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. >> >> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in >> >> your >> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >> even more individuals >> in the future. >> Andrew Friedman >> President & CEO >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> 25% >> >> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >> Reading Accessible >> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >> RFB&D®, Learning >> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >> trademarks and service >> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Forward this email >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >> >> >> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >> >> Update Profile/Email Address >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Privacy Policy: >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >> >> >> >> >> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >> 08540 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 21:42:36 2011 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:42:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: <10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com> References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> <10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com> Message-ID: If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m’power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 21:45:20 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:45:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1FC69E97-F4DA-4F61-B912-F240BDDC582E@gmail.com> Prabobly. And if RFB&D lost funding… well, let's hope its not a chain reaction in other organizations too, E.G., the CBVH. Don't know, but they seem to be aiming their cuts at this kind of funding for some odd reason. Jorge On Apr 11, 2011, at 5:35 PM, wrote: > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 million congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Same here. > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, wrote: > >> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the word Blind in there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Just received this E-mail. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >> >> Having trouble viewing this email? >> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording for the >> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving email from >> us. >> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >> >> >> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >> >> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> April 2011 >> Dear Member, >> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that Recording >> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, >> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >> not something >> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with scores >> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >> current state >> of the organization and chart its future. >> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >> members. Our research >> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >> come directly >> from individuals just like you: >> >> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >> individuals with >> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >> are barriers >> to their learning. >> >> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >> differently" has grown >> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or dyslexic. Our >> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who could >> benefit from our services. >> >> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast majority >> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >> >> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began using >> RFB&D in second grade said: >> >> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >> >> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >> >> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They don't >> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >> access and >> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes directly >> to the heart of supporting them. >> >> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >> future and hope >> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your community >> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >> tools for educational >> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >> our NEW APPLE >> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. >> >> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in your >> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >> even more individuals >> in the future. >> Andrew Friedman >> President & CEO >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> 25% >> >> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >> Reading Accessible >> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >> RFB&D®, Learning >> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >> trademarks and service >> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Forward this email >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >> >> >> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >> >> Update Profile/Email Address >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Privacy Policy: >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >> >> >> >> >> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | 08540 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 21:46:11 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:46:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <48FCEA00-D016-4539-BC05-84A00E150C68@gmail.com> Joshua, what books can you get from APH? Jorge On Apr 11, 2011, at 5:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm not going to! > I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Same here. >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >> wrote: >> >>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>> word Blind in there. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> Just received this E-mail. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>> >>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>> for the >>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>> email from >>> us. >>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>> >>> >>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>> >>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> April 2011 >>> Dear Member, >>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>> Recording >>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>> Dyslexic, >>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>> not something >>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >>> scores >>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>> current state >>> of the organization and chart its future. >>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>> members. Our research >>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>> come directly >>> from individuals just like you: >>> >>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>> individuals with >>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>> are barriers >>> to their learning. >>> >>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>> differently" has grown >>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>> dyslexic. Our >>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals who >>> >>> could >>> benefit from our services. >>> >>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>> majority >>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>> >>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began >>> using >>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>> >>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>> >>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>> >>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. They >>> >>> don't >>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>> access and >>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>> directly >>> to the heart of supporting them. >>> >>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>> future and hope >>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>> community >>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>> tools for educational >>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>> our NEW APPLE >>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. >>> >>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and in >>> >>> your >>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>> even more individuals >>> in the future. >>> Andrew Friedman >>> President & CEO >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> 25% >>> >>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>> Reading Accessible >>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>> RFB&D®, Learning >>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>> trademarks and service >>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Forward this email >>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>> >>> >>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >>> >>> Update Profile/Email Address >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> >>> >>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> >>> >>> Privacy Policy: >>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>> 08540 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 21:46:31 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:46:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; I can also ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn without audio books. As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college students? Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name I'm not going to! I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 > million > congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability > sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Same here. > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, > wrote: > >> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >> word Blind in there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Just received this E-mail. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >> >> Having trouble viewing this email? >> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >> for the >> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >> email from >> us. >> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >> >> >> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >> >> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> April 2011 >> Dear Member, >> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >> Recording >> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >> Dyslexic, >> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >> not something >> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >> scores >> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >> current state >> of the organization and chart its future. >> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >> members. Our research >> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >> come directly >> from individuals just like you: >> >> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >> individuals with >> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >> are barriers >> to their learning. >> >> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >> differently" has grown >> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >> dyslexic. Our >> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >> who >> >> could >> benefit from our services. >> >> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >> majority >> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >> >> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began >> using >> RFB&D in second grade said: >> >> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >> >> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >> >> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >> They >> >> don't >> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >> access and >> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >> directly >> to the heart of supporting them. >> >> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >> future and hope >> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >> community >> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >> tools for educational >> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >> our NEW APPLE >> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. >> >> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >> in >> >> your >> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >> even more individuals >> in the future. >> Andrew Friedman >> President & CEO >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> 25% >> >> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >> Reading Accessible >> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >> RFB&D®, Learning >> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >> trademarks and service >> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Forward this email >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >> >> >> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >> >> Update Profile/Email Address >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Privacy Policy: >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >> >> >> >> >> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >> 08540 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Apr 11 21:59:44 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:59:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I need a Braille Algebra book. I can get that from APH. They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. My former Braille instructor gave me this information. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; I > can also > ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn without > audio books. > As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college students? > Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I'm not going to! > I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >> million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Same here. >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >> wrote: >> >>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>> word Blind in there. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> Just received this E-mail. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>> >>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>> for the >>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>> email from >>> us. >>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>> >>> >>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>> >>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> April 2011 >>> Dear Member, >>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>> Recording >>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>> Dyslexic, >>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>> not something >>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >>> scores >>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>> current state >>> of the organization and chart its future. >>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>> members. Our research >>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>> come directly >>> from individuals just like you: >>> >>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>> individuals with >>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>> are barriers >>> to their learning. >>> >>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>> differently" has grown >>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>> dyslexic. Our >>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>> who >>> >>> could >>> benefit from our services. >>> >>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>> majority >>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>> >>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began >>> using >>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>> >>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>> >>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>> >>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>> They >>> >>> don't >>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>> access and >>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>> directly >>> to the heart of supporting them. >>> >>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>> future and hope >>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>> community >>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>> tools for educational >>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>> our NEW APPLE >>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. >>> >>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >>> in >>> >>> your >>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>> even more individuals >>> in the future. >>> Andrew Friedman >>> President & CEO >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> 25% >>> >>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>> Reading Accessible >>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>> RFB&D®, Learning >>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>> trademarks and service >>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Forward this email >>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>> >>> >>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >>> >>> Update Profile/Email Address >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> >>> >>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> >>> >>> Privacy Policy: >>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>> 08540 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 22:00:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:00:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC><10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. I have a braille style keyboard. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m’power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like > > to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 22:03:25 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:03:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <1FC69E97-F4DA-4F61-B912-F240BDDC582E@gmail.com> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> <1FC69E97-F4DA-4F61-B912-F240BDDC582E@gmail.com> Message-ID: George, Many many organizations are losing funding. I am afraid it’s a chain reaction. We have a huge federal deficit so they are making enormous cuts this year. I'd like to keep my RFB membership. I am wondering what the new membership fee will be. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name Prabobly. And if RFB&D lost funding… well, let's hope its not a chain reaction in other organizations too, E.G., the CBVH. Don't know, but they seem to be aiming their cuts at this kind of funding for some odd reason. Jorge On Apr 11, 2011, at 5:35 PM, wrote: > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 > million congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability > sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Same here. > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, > wrote: > >> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >> word Blind in there. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Just received this E-mail. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >> >> Having trouble viewing this email? >> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >> for the >> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >> email from >> us. >> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >> >> >> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >> >> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> April 2011 >> Dear Member, >> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >> Recording >> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >> Dyslexic, >> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >> not something >> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >> scores >> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >> current state >> of the organization and chart its future. >> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >> members. Our research >> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >> come directly >> from individuals just like you: >> >> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >> individuals with >> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >> are barriers >> to their learning. >> >> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >> differently" has grown >> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >> dyslexic. Our >> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >> who could >> benefit from our services. >> >> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >> majority >> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >> >> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who began >> using >> RFB&D in second grade said: >> >> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >> >> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >> >> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >> They don't >> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >> access and >> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >> directly >> to the heart of supporting them. >> >> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >> future and hope >> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >> community >> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >> tools for educational >> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >> our NEW APPLE >> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple device. >> >> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >> in your >> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >> even more individuals >> in the future. >> Andrew Friedman >> President & CEO >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> 25% >> >> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >> Reading Accessible >> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >> RFB&D®, Learning >> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >> trademarks and service >> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Forward this email >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >> >> >> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >> >> Update Profile/Email Address >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >> >> >> Privacy Policy: >> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >> >> >> >> >> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >> 08540 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 22:05:06 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:05:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is the Gusto a smart phone that requires a data plan? I also have a question about the Haven. The people who I have observed with the Haven have had the volume up. Other people could hear what the phone was saying. I know that sometimes in simpler phones, turning the sound down to a level where one has to put the phone up to their ear to hear the voice is not an option, so I was curious if it is in the Haven. Thanks Cindy On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > With the Sansung Haven and Gusto, you can independently do everything > including texting, checking your text inbox and reading what you write > and what others send you. > > All the functions are accessible. The speech is to slow for my liking, > but it is great to have a phone that is completely accessible. I can > access each menu and do everything on my own. > > The Gusto does have internet abilities, but like I said, I have not had > the opportunity to play with a Gusto so I am not sure if the internet is > accessible, though I have been told it is. > > Bridgit > > Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:53:56 -0400 > From: "Kat Bottner" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: <0B184728371E4DD6BCA3BE89A3748BF7 at KatPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hey all, > Yes, you can send texts independently with the ENV3, but you can't go > back and see what you've written, so you have to do it from memory. For > example like the I phone I think you can go letter by letter to see what > you've written, but not with the LG ENV3. I hope all this information > helps. Take Care, Kat > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 22:16:04 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:16:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. I know NBP has a limited collection too. I agree you need a math book in braille. They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. Is their college level texts online in the catolog? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name I need a Braille Algebra book. I can get that from APH. They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. My former Braille instructor gave me this information. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; I > can also > ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn > without > audio books. > As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college > students? > Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I'm not going to! > I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >> million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >> disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Same here. >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >> wrote: >> >>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>> word Blind in there. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> Just received this E-mail. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>> >>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>> for the >>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>> email from >>> us. >>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>> >>> >>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>> >>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> April 2011 >>> Dear Member, >>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>> Recording >>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>> Dyslexic, >>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>> not something >>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >>> scores >>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>> current state >>> of the organization and chart its future. >>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>> members. Our research >>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>> come directly >>> from individuals just like you: >>> >>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>> individuals with >>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>> are barriers >>> to their learning. >>> >>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>> differently" has grown >>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>> dyslexic. Our >>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>> who >>> >>> could >>> benefit from our services. >>> >>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>> majority >>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>> >>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>> began >>> using >>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>> >>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>> >>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>> >>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>> They >>> >>> don't >>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>> access and >>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>> directly >>> to the heart of supporting them. >>> >>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>> future and hope >>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>> community >>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>> tools for educational >>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>> our NEW APPLE >>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>> device. >>> >>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >>> in >>> >>> your >>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>> even more individuals >>> in the future. >>> Andrew Friedman >>> President & CEO >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> 25% >>> >>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>> Reading Accessible >>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>> RFB&D®, Learning >>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>> trademarks and service >>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Forward this email >>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>> >>> >>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >>> >>> Update Profile/Email Address >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> >>> >>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>> >>> >>> Privacy Policy: >>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>> 08540 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Apr 11 22:21:37 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:21:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I don't know. I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. > I know NBP has a limited collection too. > I agree you need a math book in braille. > They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. > Is their college level texts online in the catolog? > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I need a Braille Algebra book. > I can get that from APH. > They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. > My former Braille instructor gave me this information. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; I >> can also >> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >> without >> audio books. >> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >> students? >> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I'm not going to! >> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>> million >>> congressional earmarks. >>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>> disability >>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>> >>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> Same here. >>> >>> >>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>>> word Blind in there. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>>> for the >>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>> email from >>>> us. >>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>> >>>> >>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> >>>> April 2011 >>>> Dear Member, >>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>> Recording >>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>> Dyslexic, >>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>> not something >>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >>>> scores >>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>> current state >>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>> members. Our research >>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>> come directly >>>> from individuals just like you: >>>> >>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>> individuals with >>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>> are barriers >>>> to their learning. >>>> >>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>> differently" has grown >>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>> dyslexic. Our >>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>> who >>>> >>>> could >>>> benefit from our services. >>>> >>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>> majority >>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>> >>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>> began >>>> using >>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>> >>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>> >>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>> >>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>> They >>>> >>>> don't >>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>> access and >>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>> directly >>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>> >>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>> future and hope >>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>> community >>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>> tools for educational >>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>> our NEW APPLE >>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>> device. >>>> >>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >>>> in >>>> >>>> your >>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>> even more individuals >>>> in the future. >>>> Andrew Friedman >>>> President & CEO >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> >>>> 25% >>>> >>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>> Reading Accessible >>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>> trademarks and service >>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Forward this email >>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>> >>>> >>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >>>> >>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>> >>>> >>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>> >>>> >>>> Privacy Policy: >>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>> 08540 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 22:46:51 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:46:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC><3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff paint works or wiki sticks. Hope you get the braille book! -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name I don't know. I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. > I know NBP has a limited collection too. > I agree you need a math book in braille. > They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. > Is their college level texts online in the catolog? > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I need a Braille Algebra book. > I can get that from APH. > They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. > My former Braille instructor gave me this information. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; >> I >> can also >> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >> without >> audio books. >> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >> students? >> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I'm not going to! >> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>> million >>> congressional earmarks. >>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>> disability >>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>> >>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> Same here. >>> >>> >>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>>> word Blind in there. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>>> for the >>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>> email from >>>> us. >>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>> >>>> >>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> >>>> April 2011 >>>> Dear Member, >>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>> Recording >>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>> Dyslexic, >>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>> not something >>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely >>>> with >>>> scores >>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>> current state >>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>> members. Our research >>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>> come directly >>>> from individuals just like you: >>>> >>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>> individuals with >>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>> are barriers >>>> to their learning. >>>> >>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>> differently" has grown >>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>> dyslexic. Our >>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>> who >>>> >>>> could >>>> benefit from our services. >>>> >>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>> majority >>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>> >>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>> began >>>> using >>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>> >>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>> >>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>> >>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>> They >>>> >>>> don't >>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>> access and >>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>> directly >>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>> >>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>> future and hope >>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>> community >>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>> tools for educational >>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>> our NEW APPLE >>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>> device. >>>> >>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >>>> in >>>> >>>> your >>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>> even more individuals >>>> in the future. >>>> Andrew Friedman >>>> President & CEO >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> >>>> 25% >>>> >>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>> Reading Accessible >>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>> trademarks and service >>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Forward this email >>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>> >>>> >>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by >>>> enews at rfbd.org. >>>> >>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>> >>>> >>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>> >>>> >>>> Privacy Policy: >>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>> 08540 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Apr 11 23:03:48 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:03:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Puff paint is better, than wicky sticks, (lol.) They smell! I dealt with them at the elementary school, and the teacher asked us to get rid of them, because the smell was so strong. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff > paint works or wiki sticks. > Hope you get the braille book! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I don't know. > I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. > We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. >> I know NBP has a limited collection too. >> I agree you need a math book in braille. >> They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. >> Is their college level texts online in the catolog? >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I need a Braille Algebra book. >> I can get that from APH. >> They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. >> My former Braille instructor gave me this information. >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; >>> I >>> can also >>> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >>> without >>> audio books. >>> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >>> students? >>> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> I'm not going to! >>> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>>> million >>>> congressional earmarks. >>>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>>> disability >>>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>>> >>>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> Same here. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>>>> word Blind in there. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>>>> for the >>>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>>> email from >>>>> us. >>>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> April 2011 >>>>> Dear Member, >>>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>>> Recording >>>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>>> Dyslexic, >>>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>>> not something >>>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely >>>>> with >>>>> scores >>>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>>> current state >>>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>>> members. Our research >>>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>>> come directly >>>>> from individuals just like you: >>>>> >>>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>>> individuals with >>>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>>> are barriers >>>>> to their learning. >>>>> >>>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>>> differently" has grown >>>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>>> dyslexic. Our >>>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>>> who >>>>> >>>>> could >>>>> benefit from our services. >>>>> >>>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>>> majority >>>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>>> >>>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>>> began >>>>> using >>>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>>> >>>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>>> >>>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>>> >>>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>>> They >>>>> >>>>> don't >>>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>>> access and >>>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>>> directly >>>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>>> >>>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>>> future and hope >>>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>>> community >>>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>>> tools for educational >>>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>>> our NEW APPLE >>>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>>> device. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> your >>>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>>> even more individuals >>>>> in the future. >>>>> Andrew Friedman >>>>> President & CEO >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> 25% >>>>> >>>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>>> Reading Accessible >>>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>>> trademarks and service >>>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>>> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> Forward this email >>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by >>>>> enews at rfbd.org. >>>>> >>>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Privacy Policy: >>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>>> 08540 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Apr 11 23:20:24 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:20:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <30596F95520B460EBDC822B22F20B586@SerenaPC> Hey all, I've heard that you can use the BrailleNote Apex as a Braille display and typing method when texting using at least some accessible phones. Does anybody know if this applies to all of them or only the phones with adaptive tech software installed on them? Thanks, Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Is the Gusto a smart phone that requires a data plan? I also have a question about the Haven. The people who I have observed with the Haven have had the volume up. Other people could hear what the phone was saying. I know that sometimes in simpler phones, turning the sound down to a level where one has to put the phone up to their ear to hear the voice is not an option, so I was curious if it is in the Haven. Thanks Cindy On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > With the Sansung Haven and Gusto, you can independently do everything > including texting, checking your text inbox and reading what you write > and what others send you. > > All the functions are accessible. The speech is to slow for my liking, > but it is great to have a phone that is completely accessible. I can > access each menu and do everything on my own. > > The Gusto does have internet abilities, but like I said, I have not had > the opportunity to play with a Gusto so I am not sure if the internet is > accessible, though I have been told it is. > > Bridgit > > Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:53:56 -0400 > From: "Kat Bottner" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > Message-ID: <0B184728371E4DD6BCA3BE89A3748BF7 at KatPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hey all, > Yes, you can send texts independently with the ENV3, but you can't go > back and see what you've written, so you have to do it from memory. For > example like the I phone I think you can go letter by letter to see what > you've written, but not with the LG ENV3. I hope all this information > helps. Take Care, Kat > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 23:24:32 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:24:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone In-Reply-To: <30596F95520B460EBDC822B22F20B586@SerenaPC> References: <30596F95520B460EBDC822B22F20B586@SerenaPC> Message-ID: I know you can do it with the iPhone. Don't know about any others. Jorge On Apr 11, 2011, at 7:20 PM, Serena Cucco wrote: > Hey all, > > I've heard that you can use the BrailleNote Apex as a Braille display and > typing method when texting using at least some accessible phones. Does > anybody know if this applies to all of them or only the phones with adaptive > tech software installed on them? > > Thanks, > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Cindy Bennett > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone > > Is the Gusto a smart phone that requires a data plan? > > I also have a question about the Haven. The people who I have observed > with the Haven have had the volume up. Other people could hear what > the phone was saying. I know that sometimes in simpler phones, turning > the sound down to a level where one has to put the phone up to their > ear to hear the voice is not an option, so I was curious if it is in > the Haven. > > Thanks > > Cindy > > On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> With the Sansung Haven and Gusto, you can independently do everything >> including texting, checking your text inbox and reading what you write >> and what others send you. >> >> All the functions are accessible. The speech is to slow for my liking, >> but it is great to have a phone that is completely accessible. I can >> access each menu and do everything on my own. >> >> The Gusto does have internet abilities, but like I said, I have not had >> the opportunity to play with a Gusto so I am not sure if the internet is >> accessible, though I have been told it is. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:53:56 -0400 >> From: "Kat Bottner" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone >> Message-ID: <0B184728371E4DD6BCA3BE89A3748BF7 at KatPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hey all, >> Yes, you can send texts independently with the ENV3, but you can't go >> back and see what you've written, so you have to do it from memory. For >> example like the I phone I think you can go letter by letter to see what >> you've written, but not with the LG ENV3. I hope all this information >> helps. Take Care, Kat >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > UNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 00:25:32 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:25:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC><3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <54C7720D-A3AD-4931-90FF-3FEE260AE98F@gmail.com> I like wiki sticks. I don't know what you mean by the smell--guess I was lucky, but I used wiki sticks all threw middle school and we've used them sometimes in my Freshmen year. Find them very useful. Jorge On Apr 11, 2011, at 6:46 PM, wrote: > Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff paint works or wiki sticks. > Hope you get the braille book! > > -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I don't know. > I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. > We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. >> I know NBP has a limited collection too. >> I agree you need a math book in braille. >> They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. >> Is their college level texts online in the catolog? >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I need a Braille Algebra book. >> I can get that from APH. >> They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. >> My former Braille instructor gave me this information. >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; I >>> can also >>> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >>> without >>> audio books. >>> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >>> students? >>> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> I'm not going to! >>> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the Blind. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>>> million >>>> congressional earmarks. >>>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>>> disability >>>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>>> >>>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> Same here. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked the >>>>> word Blind in there. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with Recording >>>>> for the >>>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>>> email from >>>>> us. >>>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> April 2011 >>>>> Dear Member, >>>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>>> Recording >>>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>>> Dyslexic, >>>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>>> not something >>>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely with >>>>> scores >>>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>>> current state >>>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>>> members. Our research >>>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>>> come directly >>>>> from individuals just like you: >>>>> >>>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>>> individuals with >>>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>>> are barriers >>>>> to their learning. >>>>> >>>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>>> differently" has grown >>>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>>> dyslexic. Our >>>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>>> who >>>>> >>>>> could >>>>> benefit from our services. >>>>> >>>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>>> majority >>>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>>> >>>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>>> began >>>>> using >>>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>>> >>>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>>> >>>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>>> >>>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>>> They >>>>> >>>>> don't >>>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>>> access and >>>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>>> directly >>>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>>> >>>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>>> future and hope >>>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>>> community >>>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>>> tools for educational >>>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>>> our NEW APPLE >>>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>>> device. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning and >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> your >>>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>>> even more individuals >>>>> in the future. >>>>> Andrew Friedman >>>>> President & CEO >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> 25% >>>>> >>>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>>> Reading Accessible >>>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>>> trademarks and service >>>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>>> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> Forward this email >>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by enews at rfbd.org. >>>>> >>>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Privacy Policy: >>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>>> 08540 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Apr 12 00:53:33 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:53:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name In-Reply-To: <54C7720D-A3AD-4931-90FF-3FEE260AE98F@gmail.com> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> <54C7720D-A3AD-4931-90FF-3FEE260AE98F@gmail.com> Message-ID: They did have an odor to them, (they may have changed. This was in the mid 1990's, (when they first came out.) Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, JorgePaez wrote: > I like wiki sticks. > > I don't know what you mean by the smell--guess I was lucky, > but I used wiki sticks all threw middle school and we've > used them sometimes in my Freshmen year. > Find them very useful. > > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 6:46 PM, > wrote: > >> Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff >> paint works or wiki sticks. >> Hope you get the braille book! >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I don't know. >> I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. >> We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. >>> I know NBP has a limited collection too. >>> I agree you need a math book in braille. >>> They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. >>> Is their college level texts online in the catolog? >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> I need a Braille Algebra book. >>> I can get that from APH. >>> They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. >>> My former Braille instructor gave me this information. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; >>>> I >>>> can also >>>> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >>>> without >>>> audio books. >>>> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >>>> students? >>>> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> I'm not going to! >>>> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the >>>> Blind. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>>>> million >>>>> congressional earmarks. >>>>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>>>> disability >>>>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>>>> >>>>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>>>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> Same here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked >>>>>> the >>>>>> word Blind in there. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>> >>>>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with >>>>>> Recording >>>>>> for the >>>>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>>>> email from >>>>>> us. >>>>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>>>> >>>>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> >>>>>> April 2011 >>>>>> Dear Member, >>>>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>>>> Recording >>>>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>>>> Dyslexic, >>>>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>>>> not something >>>>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely >>>>>> with >>>>>> scores >>>>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>>>> current state >>>>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>>>> members. Our research >>>>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>>>> come directly >>>>>> from individuals just like you: >>>>>> >>>>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>>>> individuals with >>>>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>>>> are barriers >>>>>> to their learning. >>>>>> >>>>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>>>> differently" has grown >>>>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>>>> dyslexic. Our >>>>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>>>> who >>>>>> >>>>>> could >>>>>> benefit from our services. >>>>>> >>>>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>>>> majority >>>>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>>>> >>>>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>>>> began >>>>>> using >>>>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>>>> >>>>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>>>> >>>>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>>>> They >>>>>> >>>>>> don't >>>>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>>>> access and >>>>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>>>> directly >>>>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>>>> >>>>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>>>> future and hope >>>>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>>>> community >>>>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>>>> tools for educational >>>>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>>>> our NEW APPLE >>>>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>>>> device. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning >>>>>> and >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> your >>>>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>>>> even more individuals >>>>>> in the future. >>>>>> Andrew Friedman >>>>>> President & CEO >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> >>>>>> 25% >>>>>> >>>>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>>>> Reading Accessible >>>>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>>>> trademarks and service >>>>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> Forward this email >>>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by >>>>>> enews at rfbd.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Privacy Policy: >>>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>>>> 08540 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 01:08:09 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:08:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: wiki sticks In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler><316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC><3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC><56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <11F7DAD9E484480CA78AD23C780CA120@OwnerPC> Hi Josh, You must have used different wiki sticks. They have never smelled for me. The advantage is they are flexible and ready to touch; puff paint has to dry; but whatever works. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name Puff paint is better, than wicky sticks, (lol.) They smell! I dealt with them at the elementary school, and the teacher asked us to get rid of them, because the smell was so strong. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff > paint works or wiki sticks. > Hope you get the braille book! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > I don't know. > I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. > We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. >> I know NBP has a limited collection too. >> I agree you need a math book in braille. >> They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. >> Is their college level texts online in the catolog? >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I need a Braille Algebra book. >> I can get that from APH. >> They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. >> My former Braille instructor gave me this information. >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; >>> I >>> can also >>> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >>> without >>> audio books. >>> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >>> students? >>> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> I'm not going to! >>> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the >>> Blind. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>>> million >>>> congressional earmarks. >>>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>>> disability >>>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>>> >>>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> Same here. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked >>>>> the >>>>> word Blind in there. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with >>>>> Recording >>>>> for the >>>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>>> email from >>>>> us. >>>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> April 2011 >>>>> Dear Member, >>>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>>> Recording >>>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>>> Dyslexic, >>>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>>> not something >>>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely >>>>> with >>>>> scores >>>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>>> current state >>>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>>> members. Our research >>>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>>> come directly >>>>> from individuals just like you: >>>>> >>>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>>> individuals with >>>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>>> are barriers >>>>> to their learning. >>>>> >>>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>>> differently" has grown >>>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>>> dyslexic. Our >>>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>>> who >>>>> >>>>> could >>>>> benefit from our services. >>>>> >>>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>>> majority >>>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>>> >>>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>>> began >>>>> using >>>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>>> >>>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>>> >>>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>>> >>>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>>> They >>>>> >>>>> don't >>>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>>> access and >>>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>>> directly >>>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>>> >>>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>>> future and hope >>>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>>> community >>>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>>> tools for educational >>>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>>> our NEW APPLE >>>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>>> device. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning >>>>> and >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> your >>>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>>> even more individuals >>>>> in the future. >>>>> Andrew Friedman >>>>> President & CEO >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> 25% >>>>> >>>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>>> Reading Accessible >>>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>>> trademarks and service >>>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>>> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> Forward this email >>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by >>>>> enews at rfbd.org. >>>>> >>>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Privacy Policy: >>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>>> 08540 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 01:10:21 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:10:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: <6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC> <10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com> <6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, You also have another option open to you. From the file manager menu, press the letter t. This brings up the translation menu. From there, press the letter i. This activates the import file function. Importing a file allows you to translate it to keyword type. Importing also means that you can access files without plugging in your thumb drive. Once a file is imported onto the braillenote, you don't have to plug in your thumb drive to access it. Patrick On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. > I have a braille style keyboard. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dezman Jackson > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note > > If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be > available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. > > Dezman > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez > wrote: > >> Ashley: >> You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < >> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> > Hi all, >> > I have a Braille Note m’power. >> > It has several ports. >> > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the >> BrailleNote. >> > >> > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. >> > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. >> > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? >> > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? >> > >> > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, >> and >> > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to >> put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. >> > >> > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like >> > to >> read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. >> > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the >> BrailleNote, let me know. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Ashley >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Apr 12 01:11:53 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:11:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: wiki sticks In-Reply-To: <11F7DAD9E484480CA78AD23C780CA120@OwnerPC> References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> <11F7DAD9E484480CA78AD23C780CA120@OwnerPC> Message-ID: The hard thing, with Wicky Sticks, is that you can't put Braille labels on the graph, without them being in the way. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Josh, > You must have used different wiki sticks. They have never smelled for me. > The advantage is they are flexible and ready to touch; puff paint has to > dry; but whatever works. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > > Puff paint is better, than wicky sticks, (lol.) > They smell! > I dealt with them at the elementary school, and the teacher asked us > to get rid of them, because the smell was so strong. > Blessings, Joshua > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff >> paint works or wiki sticks. >> Hope you get the braille book! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> I don't know. >> I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. >> We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. >>> I know NBP has a limited collection too. >>> I agree you need a math book in braille. >>> They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. >>> Is their college level texts online in the catolog? >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> I need a Braille Algebra book. >>> I can get that from APH. >>> They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. >>> My former Braille instructor gave me this information. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; >>>> I >>>> can also >>>> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >>>> without >>>> audio books. >>>> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >>>> students? >>>> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> I'm not going to! >>>> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the >>>> Blind. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>>>> million >>>>> congressional earmarks. >>>>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>>>> disability >>>>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>>>> >>>>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>>>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> Same here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked >>>>>> the >>>>>> word Blind in there. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>> >>>>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with >>>>>> Recording >>>>>> for the >>>>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>>>> email from >>>>>> us. >>>>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>>>> >>>>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> >>>>>> April 2011 >>>>>> Dear Member, >>>>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>>>> Recording >>>>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>>>> Dyslexic, >>>>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>>>> not something >>>>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely >>>>>> with >>>>>> scores >>>>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>>>> current state >>>>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>>>> members. Our research >>>>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>>>> come directly >>>>>> from individuals just like you: >>>>>> >>>>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>>>> individuals with >>>>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>>>> are barriers >>>>>> to their learning. >>>>>> >>>>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>>>> differently" has grown >>>>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>>>> dyslexic. Our >>>>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>>>> who >>>>>> >>>>>> could >>>>>> benefit from our services. >>>>>> >>>>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>>>> majority >>>>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>>>> >>>>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>>>> began >>>>>> using >>>>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>>>> >>>>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>>>> >>>>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>>>> They >>>>>> >>>>>> don't >>>>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>>>> access and >>>>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>>>> directly >>>>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>>>> >>>>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>>>> future and hope >>>>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>>>> community >>>>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>>>> tools for educational >>>>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>>>> our NEW APPLE >>>>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>>>> device. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning >>>>>> and >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> your >>>>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>>>> even more individuals >>>>>> in the future. >>>>>> Andrew Friedman >>>>>> President & CEO >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> >>>>>> 25% >>>>>> >>>>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>>>> Reading Accessible >>>>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>>>> trademarks and service >>>>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> Forward this email >>>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by >>>>>> enews at rfbd.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Privacy Policy: >>>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>>>> 08540 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 01:19:15 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:19:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: wiki sticks In-Reply-To: References: <1105071856555.1101553811939.141376.11.180600DB@scheduler> <316905DAFF96475BB395B187F3323A1B@OwnerPC> <3B4FC7A407AA42A29939A50B87F7C691@OwnerPC> <56F660E63D99458DB8E6B87667A66035@OwnerPC> <11F7DAD9E484480CA78AD23C780CA120@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3AA91BAA-A259-4910-9515-EFBE3233758A@gmail.com> Yep that's true. On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > The hard thing, with Wicky Sticks, is that you can't put Braille > labels on the graph, without them being in the way. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi Josh, >> You must have used different wiki sticks. They have never smelled for me. >> The advantage is they are flexible and ready to touch; puff paint has to >> dry; but whatever works. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> >> Puff paint is better, than wicky sticks, (lol.) >> They smell! >> I dealt with them at the elementary school, and the teacher asked us >> to get rid of them, because the smell was so strong. >> Blessings, Joshua >> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Good luck. Someone will have to draw the graphs tactially for you; puff >>> paint works or wiki sticks. >>> Hope you get the braille book! >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:21 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> >>> I don't know. >>> I'm in a heep of trouble, because we're graphing, now. >>> We're working with puff paint, and a Braille label gun for my graph. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Wow, I didn't know they had braille college level texts. >>>> I know NBP has a limited collection too. >>>> I agree you need a math book in braille. >>>> They are very expensive so I hope you have another funding source. >>>> Is their college level texts online in the catolog? >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:59 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>> >>>> I need a Braille Algebra book. >>>> I can get that from APH. >>>> They do have Braille college-levil textbooks. >>>> My former Braille instructor gave me this information. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> Well, that is your choice. I'd rather have the recorded books from them; >>>>> I >>>>> can also >>>>> ask them to record books if I give them enough time. I cannot learn >>>>> without >>>>> audio books. >>>>> As for APH books, I did not think they did audio books for college >>>>> students? >>>>> Am I wrong? Do they record or distribute post secondary books? >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>> >>>>> I'm not going to! >>>>> I'm canceling my membership, and getting my books from APH for the >>>>> Blind. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>>>>> million >>>>>> congressional earmarks. >>>>>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>>>>> disability >>>>>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>>>>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:09 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>> >>>>>> Same here. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:28 AM, >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Groan. It’s a politically correct language move. >>>>>>> Everyone knows you have to be disabled to get their books. I liked >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> word Blind in there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:07 AM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just received this E-mail. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>> From: Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic >>>>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) >>>>>>> Subject: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>>>>>> To: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Having trouble viewing this email? >>>>>>> Click here to view this email as a webpage. >>>>>>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=dpqs87bab&v=0014VpJP4e0eJTIjXTOa2zFTLCXiXV86pXfpIW0PihLbiNSFfdNi3Bgwp0lN-LfiHYCSy0Q5o8Q4hExeVXdx7CiFjkE9CzYnwKLlkVibAXiOnqaBcBS-1OfliTbMLa_A7_NyiPHWwFyG4YniQw6AlGByh2CeguqhJSyH6bjH8a0mGWvEukuaPnOtvSZ5lsgs-At46ZSRJ7Gfu3u-m5AhfdfvVVg3eORQdl2GwfTeLt6GeHRzD6LI0m5Py9MHyHrDE9Zad6YeXtSyAd0CmPR2Zh3l2fmC62-t8ErTm9p5PBKIxD7D-WdQT0C43thVEpUavc9QgnXipyIMIaDdO-YpsCpEXVckGiBo_0I >>>>>>> You're receiving this email because of your relationship with >>>>>>> Recording >>>>>>> for the >>>>>>> Blind & Dyslexic. Please confirm your continued interest in receiving >>>>>>> email from >>>>>>> us. >>>>>>> http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/c.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&t=1105071856555.141376.68122577.2&m=1101553811939&wl=F >>>>>>> You only have to do this once. You may unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>>> if you no longer wish to receive our emails. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> RFB&D® is Changing Its Name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TO LEARNING ALLY(TM) >>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> April 2011 >>>>>>> Dear Member, >>>>>>> I am personally reaching out to share with you the exciting news that >>>>>>> Recording >>>>>>> for the Blind & Dyslexic® has changed its name to Learning Ally. >>>>>>> Changing the name of an institution such as Recording for the Blind & >>>>>>> Dyslexic, >>>>>>> with its rich history and tremendous network of 300,000 members, is >>>>>>> not something >>>>>>> we entered into lightly. Over the past year, we have worked closely >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> scores >>>>>>> of students, parents, teachers, volunteers and others to explore the >>>>>>> current state >>>>>>> of the organization and chart its future. >>>>>>> First and foremost, this transformation has been driven by our >>>>>>> members. Our research >>>>>>> and focus groups reveal that the most significant reasons for change >>>>>>> come directly >>>>>>> from individuals just like you: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Our member community is more diverse than ever before, including >>>>>>> individuals with >>>>>>> many different kinds of learning disabilities where access and reading >>>>>>> are barriers >>>>>>> to their learning. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * The broad community of individuals in the U.S. who "learn >>>>>>> differently" has grown >>>>>>> significantly and a portion of these individuals are not blind or >>>>>>> dyslexic. Our >>>>>>> current name limits our ability to reach the wider base of individuals >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> benefit from our services. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * And most significant of all, a universal issue expressed by the vast >>>>>>> majority >>>>>>> of our members surveyed is that they don't want to be typecast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When told about the news of our new name, a freshman in college who >>>>>>> began >>>>>>> using >>>>>>> RFB&D in second grade said: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Finally. . .I'm tired of typing out that long name - and I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> don't like being labeled as Dyslexic!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This anecdote echoes the sentiment of countless thousands of members. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> want to be referred to as "disabled"; they simply want to enjoy equal >>>>>>> access and >>>>>>> opportunities to learn and succeed like anyone else. Our new name goes >>>>>>> directly >>>>>>> to the heart of supporting them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We will continue to serve and support you. We are excited about the >>>>>>> future and hope >>>>>>> you will encourage your friends, parents, teachers, and others in your >>>>>>> community >>>>>>> to become a "Learning Ally" to help us reach more individuals with >>>>>>> tools for educational >>>>>>> success. Be sure to visit our new website at LearningAlly.org >>>>>>> [http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&et=1105071856555&s=141376&e=001YGrkofVxs5lIPkLv43pjva4x5C-r54u9sEmSElPAdAZaVvxUXPiEnxgfjcHua9vACO8wcs-p3CuyFy347uJG1bBX7tUwc6A8K8_67Yt-Xrn_7qp-vZe3mg==] >>>>>>> to learn more about FREE Membership opportunities, FREE software and >>>>>>> our NEW APPLE >>>>>>> APP which now makes our books compatible with your favorite Apple >>>>>>> device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you again for allowing us to help in your pursuit of learning >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> support of RFB&D, and now Learning Ally, as we move forward to serve >>>>>>> even more individuals >>>>>>> in the future. >>>>>>> Andrew Friedman >>>>>>> President & CEO >>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 25% >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ©2011 Learning Ally, Inc. All Rights Reserved. LearningAllyTM, Making >>>>>>> Reading Accessible >>>>>>> for AllTM, the "Access" icon, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, >>>>>>> RFB&D®, Learning >>>>>>> Through Listening®, the "Heart and Headphones" design and all >>>>>>> trademarks and service >>>>>>> marks are owned by Learning Ally, Incorporated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> Forward this email >>>>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=dpqs87bab&m=1101553811939&ea=jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu&a=1105071856555 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email was sent to jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu by >>>>>>> enews at rfbd.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Update Profile/Email Address >>>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) >>>>>>> http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&m=001K33QEjKvDIIHs3UwsZPI7A%3D%3D&se=001HSAh_wRM1Ig%3D&t=001dpR8cViz1NP1KDnexZTTuQ%3D%3D&lang=001FCSs65SMrsI%3D&reason=001y5KaVlBn7_Y%3D&llr=dpqs87bab >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Privacy Policy: >>>>>>> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic | 20 Roszel Road | Princeton | NJ | >>>>>>> 08540 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> 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options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From z.dreicer at emissives.com Tue Apr 12 01:47:55 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:47:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: i have the haven and have it set at medium/high. Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Cindy Bennett wrote: With the Sansung Haven and Gusto, you can independently do everything including texting, checking your text inbox and reading what you write and what others send you. All the functions are accessible. The speech is to slow for my liking, but it is great to have a phone that is completely accessible. I can access each menu and do everything on my own. The Gusto does have internet abilities, but like I said, I have not had the opportunity to play with a Gusto so I am not sure if the internet is accessible, though I have been told it is. Bridgit Message: 14 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 21:53:56 -0400 From: "Kat Bottner" References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC><10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com><6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Oh, I was looking for the translation menue forever; I couldn't remember where it was! So once I import it, its on the hard drive of the BrailleNote; I'm importing a text .doc file. So do I just tell it to translate to keyword then? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Molloy Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 9:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Ashley, You also have another option open to you. From the file manager menu, press the letter t. This brings up the translation menu. From there, press the letter i. This activates the import file function. Importing a file allows you to translate it to keyword type. Importing also means that you can access files without plugging in your thumb drive. Once a file is imported onto the braillenote, you don't have to plug in your thumb drive to access it. Patrick On 4/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. > I have a braille style keyboard. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dezman Jackson > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note > > If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be > available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. > > Dezman > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez > > wrote: > >> Ashley: >> You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < >> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> > Hi all, >> > I have a Braille Note m’power. >> > It has several ports. >> > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on >> > the >> BrailleNote. >> > >> > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. >> > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. >> > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? >> > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? >> > >> > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, >> > DBT, >> and >> > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to >> put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. >> > >> > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like >> > to >> read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer >> braille. >> > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the >> BrailleNote, let me know. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Ashley >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue Apr 12 02:18:27 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:18:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Tell a friend Message-ID: > >You have just purchased an expensive Braille >product, should you protect it with an EPI case? > >Ask a friend that has an EPI case, or better >yet, send this e-mail to friends that may need a case. >We at Executive Products Inc. have been creating >and designing cases for Braille products for seven years now. >We create and manufacture all of our cases here >in the USA. When we design our cases we keep the >“USER” in mind. Touch, Security, Mobility is how >we design and create our long lasting cases. > >Touch: We get the best soft leather for all our >products; when you feel the case encompassing >your expensive unit you will sense the security. >Security: Once you place your unit into the case >it will fit like a glove. We have cut outs for >all the external wiring that you need such as >the Charger, headsets, USB port, volume and others. >Mobility: We want you to be free and mobile when >you are on the go, and most of all to enjoy life. > >If you have any questions please feel free to >call us at 818-833-8080 or visit our website at >www.executiveproductsinc.com > >We take great pride in working very closely with >the sight impaired community. We are also very >proud that all our products are made in the USA! > >Book Port Book Port >+ Braille+ > Braille Connect >32/40 Braille >Icon Braille Sense Plus 32 >BrailleNote Apex GW >BookSense GW Voice >Sense Iphone >3G/4G N82 > Plextalk >Trekker Breeze Victor >Stream Cane >Holders BX >400/420/440 QX >400/420/440 Braille & Speak >NLS/BPH cases Gps >Cases GPS-EarthMate, > Gps-Global >Sat, GPS-Holux >GpSlim 236 GPS-Holux I-Blue 737, >GPS-SysOn Book >courier SmartPhones Pouches S/M/L >Braille Lite >2000/M20/M40 >Braille Note BT/QT Mpower >BT/QT >Voice Note BT/QT Voice Note MPower BT/QT > >818-833-8080 > > >Protect your unit .. Buy an EPI case. > >Executive Products Inc. >tback_yellow-1 > >12900 Bradley Ave. >Sylmar Ca. 91342. >Fax: 818-833-5890 >Office: 818-833-8080 >Mobile: 818-723-8444 >www.ExecutiveProductsinc.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 10081864.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3615 bytes Desc: not available URL: From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Tue Apr 12 02:38:29 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:38:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Message-ID: Ashley: You can, in fact, read .doc (Microsoft Word) files in your BrailleNote directly. All you have to do is find the document by using either the file manager (F from the Main Menu) or the wordprocessor (W from the Main Menu) and press enter on the word document you want to open. When KeySoft asks "Review the options?" just press N for no or hit enter. Or if you hit Y for yes on the "Review the options?" prompt, it'll ask you to translate it to Braille or something. But try it as I know, by heart because I also have a BrailleNote in which I am typing this message using grade 2! But your BrailleNote must be able to open .doc files immediately and perform instant translation on the braille display as you read it or edit it. Cheers, Humberto > ----- Original Message ----- >From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:01:37 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note >Hi all, >I have a Braille Note m’power. >It has several ports. >So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the BrailleNote. >I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. >But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. >How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? >Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? >Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, and >I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. >I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like to read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. >So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the BrailleNote, let me know. >Thanks. >Ashley >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Apr 12 02:39:36 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:39:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Tell a friend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's about time someone said "sight impaired, (instead of visually impaired!) As I stated on the Faith Talk list, I despise the term, "visually impaired." Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, David Andrews wrote: > >> >>You have just purchased an expensive Braille >>product, should you protect it with an EPI case? >> >>Ask a friend that has an EPI case, or better >>yet, send this e-mail to friends that may need a case. >>We at Executive Products Inc. have been creating >>and designing cases for Braille products for seven years now. >>We create and manufacture all of our cases here >>in the USA. When we design our cases we keep the >>“USER” in mind. Touch, Security, Mobility is how >>we design and create our long lasting cases. >> >>Touch: We get the best soft leather for all our >>products; when you feel the case encompassing >>your expensive unit you will sense the security. >>Security: Once you place your unit into the case >>it will fit like a glove. We have cut outs for >>all the external wiring that you need such as >>the Charger, headsets, USB port, volume and others. >>Mobility: We want you to be free and mobile when >>you are on the go, and most of all to enjoy life. >> >>If you have any questions please feel free to >>call us at 818-833-8080 or visit our website at >>www.executiveproductsinc.com >> >>We take great pride in working very closely with >>the sight impaired community. We are also very >>proud that all our products are made in the USA! >> >>Book Port Book Port >>+ Braille+ >> Braille Connect >>32/40 Braille >>Icon Braille Sense Plus 32 >>BrailleNote Apex GW >>BookSense GW Voice >>Sense Iphone >>3G/4G N82 >> Plextalk >>Trekker Breeze Victor >>Stream Cane >>Holders BX >>400/420/440 QX >>400/420/440 Braille & Speak >>NLS/BPH cases Gps >>Cases GPS-EarthMate, >> Gps-Global >>Sat, GPS-Holux >>GpSlim 236 GPS-Holux I-Blue 737, >>GPS-SysOn Book >>courier SmartPhones Pouches S/M/L >>Braille Lite >>2000/M20/M40 >>Braille Note BT/QT Mpower >>BT/QT >>Voice Note BT/QT Voice Note MPower BT/QT >> >>818-833-8080 >> >> >>Protect your unit….. Buy an EPI case. >> >>Executive Products Inc. >>tback_yellow-1 >> >>12900 Bradley Ave. >>Sylmar Ca. 91342. >>Fax: 818-833-5890 >>Office: 818-833-8080 >>Mobile: 818-723-8444 >>www.ExecutiveProductsinc.com >> >> >> > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 03:01:04 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:01:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3024579641F04D3098A12CD95305117E@OwnerPC> Humberto, It will read .doc files. But I just thought I'd convert them so I can type in grade 2 braille; you have to type in computer braille unless it’s a keysoft braille file. -----Original Message----- From: humberto Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Ashley: You can, in fact, read .doc (Microsoft Word) files in your BrailleNote directly. All you have to do is find the document by using either the file manager (F from the Main Menu) or the wordprocessor (W from the Main Menu) and press enter on the word document you want to open. When KeySoft asks "Review the options?" just press N for no or hit enter. Or if you hit Y for yes on the "Review the options?" prompt, it'll ask you to translate it to Braille or something. But try it as I know, by heart because I also have a BrailleNote in which I am typing this message using grade 2! But your BrailleNote must be able to open .doc files immediately and perform instant translation on the braille display as you read it or edit it. Cheers, Humberto > ----- Original Message ----- >From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:01:37 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note >Hi all, >I have a Braille Note m’power. >It has several ports. >So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the BrailleNote. >I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. >But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. >How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? >Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? >Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, and >I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. >I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like to read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. >So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the BrailleNote, let me know. >Thanks. >Ashley >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Apr 12 03:08:41 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:08:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC><10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com> <6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: You actually want the keyword Braille instead of BRF. BRF does not save place markers. Also, single carriage returns are often lost during translation to BRF. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. I have a braille style keyboard. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m’power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like > > to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 03:28:22 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:28:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC><10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com><6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <649A43DAC1AD40A69EFEE376FB84F0C3@OwnerPC> Thanks Nicole. So many document options and I'm not sure what all mean and what is the best. I'll try keyword braille then. -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note You actually want the keyword Braille instead of BRF. BRF does not save place markers. Also, single carriage returns are often lost during translation to BRF. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. I have a braille style keyboard. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m’power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like > > to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Apr 12 04:24:39 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:24:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's disability services paid for a membership and requested material through them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a membership. Bridgit Message: 8 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 million congressional earmarks. Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non disability sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? Ashley From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Apr 12 04:30:19 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:30:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC><10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com><6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC> <649A43DAC1AD40A69EFEE376FB84F0C3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Not a problem. If you need more information, feel free to email me off list. Are you new at using the BrailleNote? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks Nicole. So many document options and I'm not sure what all mean and what is the best. I'll try keyword braille then. -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note You actually want the keyword Braille instead of BRF. BRF does not save place markers. Also, single carriage returns are often lost during translation to BRF. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. I have a braille style keyboard. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m’power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like > > to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Apr 12 04:36:09 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:36:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible phones In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Gusto does not require a plan like a Smart phone unless you want the internet service. I am not sure what the cost is for this. There are volume levels you can set with the Haven, and I have mine on the lowest setting, but yes, some of the functions still sound as though I have speaker phone on. I purchased a Samsung ear bud set so only I can hear my phone now. *smile* Depending on where I am, I don't really care, but in some situations it is not appropriate. Phone calls themselves do not sound like speaker phone is on, and of course, I can adjust the volume when speaking with people. The Haven is not perfect, but it is completely accessible, and inexpensive compared to other phones. I would love an I-phone or something similar, but I prefer to save money for my husband and kid rather than buy technology that is not a necessity. One day, but not now. If on the fence, you can always find a Verizon store that has a Haven or Gusto to look at, though most employees are dense about accessibility with any phone. When I bought mine, the guy working at the kiosk was adamant no phone could read text messages out loud. LOL Bridgit Message: 17 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:05:06 -0400 From: Cindy Bennett To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible phone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Is the Gusto a smart phone that requires a data plan? I also have a question about the Haven. The people who I have observed with the Haven have had the volume up. Other people could hear what the phone was saying. I know that sometimes in simpler phones, turning the sound down to a level where one has to put the phone up to their ear to hear the voice is not an option, so I was curious if it is in the Haven. Thanks Cindy From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Apr 12 14:43:42 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 09:43:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're correct, Bridget. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was > if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's > disability services paid for a membership and requested material through > them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a > membership. > > Bridgit > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 > million > congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non > disability > sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 17:44:19 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:44:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe I'm just a nutcase, but I thought RFB&D membership's been free to students for a couple years now? On 4/12/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > You're correct, Bridget. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was >> if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's >> disability services paid for a membership and requested material through >> them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a >> membership. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >> million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >> disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From aec732 at msn.com Tue Apr 12 17:55:30 2011 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:55:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear NABS: Just to setthe record straight, memberships remain free for individual students who qualify for service because of disability. Please let me know if you have other questions. You also can emailme off-list: aec732 at gmail.com Thanks, all! Annemarie XCooke Learning Ally consultant and member From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 18:27:08 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:27:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Annemarie, How do they define student? Part time? Degree seeking ones qualify? Also how do you determine who is a student and who is not. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Annemarie Cooke Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:55 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees Dear NABS: Just to setthe record straight, memberships remain free for individual students who qualify for service because of disability. Please let me know if you have other questions. You also can emailme off-list: aec732 at gmail.com Thanks, all! Annemarie XCooke Learning Ally consultant and member _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 18:32:01 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:32:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note In-Reply-To: References: <7C1324E67C504438B162DE6D246D187D@OwnerPC><10581B59-A6B3-46B7-99FB-F2BA3F072EFF@gmail.com><6768887D6B34485F95F87EB9D600CD4C@OwnerPC><649A43DAC1AD40A69EFEE376FB84F0C3@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <83F81B1B3C18452CA59105FA83AC409C@OwnerPC> No I've had it for years; maybe four years; but I usually just write on it and know enough to get by. I'd love to have upgraded technology to the Apex, but its too expensive to purchase privately; rehab buys equipment if you are full time student only. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 12:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Not a problem. If you need more information, feel free to email me off list. Are you new at using the BrailleNote? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks Nicole. So many document options and I'm not sure what all mean and what is the best. I'll try keyword braille then. -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note You actually want the keyword Braille instead of BRF. BRF does not save place markers. Also, single carriage returns are often lost during translation to BRF. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. I have a braille style keyboard. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m’power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I’d like > > to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 18:47:03 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:47:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No RFB has been free to students for a few years because of the Dept of education funding. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name You're correct, Bridget. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was > if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's > disability services paid for a membership and requested material through > them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a > membership. > > Bridgit > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 > million > congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non > disability > sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 12 18:47:56 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:47:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirt, YEs for at least two years, RFB membership has been free; I did not pay a fee last year. -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name Maybe I'm just a nutcase, but I thought RFB&D membership's been free to students for a couple years now? On 4/12/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > You're correct, Bridget. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was >> if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's >> disability services paid for a membership and requested material through >> them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a >> membership. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >> million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >> disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bfs1206 at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 22:14:28 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:14:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, RFB&D is free for students. :-) On 4/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Kirt, > YEs for at least two years, RFB membership has been free; I did not pay a > fee last year. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name > > Maybe I'm just a nutcase, but I thought RFB&D membership's been free > to students for a couple years now? > > On 4/12/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> You're correct, Bridget. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was >>> if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's >>> disability services paid for a membership and requested material through >>> them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a >>> membership. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 8 >>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>> million >>> congressional earmarks. >>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>> disability >>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>> >>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 01:08:50 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:08:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Apex and gmail Message-ID: Hi Students, I am trying to get my gmail set up so that I can check email from my APEX. I have set up numerous email accounts through outlook and so forth, so I am familiar with doing that. My question is what are the settings? It seems I have all the info right, but I get an error. If anyone else has done this, please help! Its greatly appreciated! Marsha From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 06:44:34 2011 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben Bloomgren) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:44:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Ben Bloomgren wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <2078688240.2979779.1302677074236.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed78.prod> LinkedIn ------------ National, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Ben Bloomgren Ben Bloomgren Translation and Localization Professional Phoenix, Arizona Area Confirm that you know Ben Bloomgren https://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-gmfwangb-2k/isd/2686060212/nnXnt-Eh/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Apr 13 20:57:53 2011 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:57:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Former Senator Chris Dodd to Speak at Fourth Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Former Senator Chris Dodd to Speak at Fourth Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Baltimore, Maryland (April 13, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) and the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD) will present the fourth Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 14–15, 2011, at the NFB Jernigan Institute in Baltimore. The symposium, entitled "Bridging the Gap Between the Disability Rights Movement and Other Civil Rights Movements,” and named for NFB founder and pioneering legal scholar Dr. Jacobus tenBroek (1911–1968), will gather public officials, legal scholars, and disability rights advocates for a two-day seminar on the state of disability law in the United States, and will discuss how disability rights may be advanced in the future. Chris Dodd, former senator for the state of Connecticut, will be the keynote speaker. “Our first three Jacobus tenBroek symposia were extraordinary events, and we are looking forward to once again hosting leading players and thinkers in the disability community, including our esteemed keynote speaker Senator Dodd,” said Dr. Marc Maurer, an attorney and President of the National Federation of the Blind. “Disability law is rapidly changing at the national and international level, and this forum will provide an opportunity for everyone to assess developments and plan strategies in this dynamic and critically important field.” Senator Dodd said: “I am honored to have the opportunity to address the nation’s foremost symposium on disability rights. I worked closely with the disability community while authoring the Help America Vote Act, and have long considered myself an advocate for people with disabilities. I look forward to contributing to this important discussion.” Dr. Jacobus tenBroek was a constitutional law scholar, a blind professor at Berkeley, and an author of treatises on the Fourteenth Amendment and social welfare. Dr. tenBroek created the concept that civil rights should apply to disabled Americans, and he published extensively on the application of the law to those with disabilities. His efforts to advance civil rights for the blind and others with disabilities included drafting the model White Cane Law, which has had a profound influence on the development of civil rights laws for the disabled throughout the United States, and publishing authoritative articles like “The Right to Live in the World: The Disabled in the Law of Torts.” The proceedings of the symposium will be published in the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights. For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please visit www.nfb.org. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Apr 13 21:17:57 2011 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:17:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Montgomery County Discriminates Against Blind Employee Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Montgomery County Discriminates Against Blind Employee Rockville, Maryland (April 13, 2011): With the assistance of the National Federation of the Blind, a blind woman who was until recently employed as an information specialist with Montgomery County's Department of Health and Human Services has filed suit against the County for unlawful discrimination under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. The suit arises from the County's purchase of an inaccessible database program that employees of its new 311 call center must use to complete their tasks. Yasmin Reyazuddin worked in the call center of the County's Department of Health and Human Services: Division of Aging and Disability Services until the County consolidated that call center and others into its new Montgomery County 311 Call Center. Ms. Reyazuddin had been using screen access software, which converts information on a computer screen into synthesized speech or into Braille that can be displayed on a device known as a refreshable Braille display, to access the computer programs with which she needed to interact in order to provide accurate information to callers, keep records of calls, and perform other tasks necessary for resolving the concerns of callers. When she learned that her agency's call center would be consolidated into the County's new 311 call center, she repeatedly inquired of County officials whether the software for the new call center would be accessible with screen access technology and provided information to the County about accessible solutions. For the new call center, the County ultimately procured a database system from Oracle known as Seibel Customer Relationship Management (CRM). According to its manufacturer, this software can be configured to work with screen access software, but the County installed a custom configuration of the software that is not accessible to blind employees. Ms. Reyazuddin was originally scheduled to be transferred to the new call center with other information specialists, but was not allowed to be transferred when she raised concerns about the accessibility of the CRM program. Ms. Reyazuddin has not been allowed to test the software for accessibility, and although Oracle provided the County with documentation describing how the software could be made accessible, the County has not implemented an accessible configuration of the software. Ms. Reyazuddin has been downgraded from an information specialist to a support staff position at the County Department of Health and Human Services, and she is only given duties that fill approximately half of an eight-hour work day. She has been informed that her pay will also be cut because the County claims that her multilingual skills are no longer being used in her new assignment. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "Yasmin Reyazuddin has been treated shamefully and with deliberate disregard for her legal and civil rights by Montgomery County. Instead of taking the steps necessary to make the database program used by employees of the Montgomery County 311 Call Center accessible, the County has reassigned her to a lower-paying job in which her skills are not being used. We cannot and will not tolerate this discrimination against her and other blind County employees." Ms. Reyazuddin said: "Despite my ten years of service to Montgomery County, I am now being shifted to a lower-paying position with little to do. I could do all of my former job duties if the County would follow Oracle's guidelines for making CRM accessible, but instead I am largely relegated to idleness. The situation has caused me considerable emotional distress. I did not want to resort to litigation but I feel that I have no choice if I am to once again be a productive employee of Montgomery County." The plaintiff is represented with the assistance of the National Federation of the Blind by Joseph B. Espo and Timothy R. Elder of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein & Levy. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Apr 14 01:57:53 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:57:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want forourchildren with visual impairment? Message-ID: <20110414015753.653.10052@domU-12-31-38-04-E5-94.compute-1.internal> The blind man has a sign that says "I'm blind, please help." The sighted lady change his sign so it now reads "It's a beautiful day and I can't see it." Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > My assumption is that the video is inaccessible and doesn't have > audio descriptions because they are only targeting sighted people > in this approach. They probably either don't want blind people > to know that they're doing this kind of advertising and posting > this video about stereotypical misconceptions about blind people > because they probably know that the blind people who want to view > the video are going to be put down. That is why I think the > video is inaccessible to us and without descriptions. This is > just my opinion on this. Any thoughts? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:10:03 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we > want forourchildren with visual impairment? >> So...what exactly's going on with this. I was confused, being > totally >> blind and all, but for you to get this insensed about it there > must be >> a lot more going on I can't figure. >> On 4/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >>> I have a little vision and some of it did show begging. >>> There were little actual words so I'm not sure of all the > content. >>> Perhaps you are sighted, Ann andcan explain what action was > offensive? >>> Its sad when comericials come about that pick on a minority. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anne Ward >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:44 PM >>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com >>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want > for >>> ourchildren with visual impairment? >>> This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations > firm, but it >>> is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all > protest to >>> this firm, at the very least. >>> ----- >>> I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button > is not a >>> desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to > overcome the >>> stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able > to see. The >>> only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling > pencils, >>> lightbulbs or brooms door to door. >>> The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public > perception of the >>> blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate > of capable >>> blind people sky high. >>> I understand the point of the message but for those of us > involved in the >>> struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people > with >>> disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It > undoes so >>> much of the work that we are doing. >>> This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do > great harm >>> while trying to do good. >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU >>> Anne Ward >>> CAPVI >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 02:22:44 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:22:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want forourchildren with visual impairment? In-Reply-To: <20110414015753.653.10052@domU-12-31-38-04-E5-94.compute-1.internal> References: <20110414015753.653.10052@domU-12-31-38-04-E5-94.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Yeah...not cool, I guess. I just don't see how complaining about it, with the exception of maybe writing the company a letter, does anything? Honestly, the best way, in my humble opinion, to combat these stereotypes is going out there and proving them wrong. I know there are legitimate cases where you need to formally complain or sue or whatever, I think this maybe could be but it's on the borderline, but honestly the most effective way to show we're not inferior is...well, going out in to society and showing we're not inferior. Doing that is probably a more efficient use of time than making a big sceen about a tv comercial...but that's just my two cents. And honestly, it does grate on me a little. But, and I say this in the nicest and least condescending way possible, I have more important things to worry about...but I'd certainly be happy to sign a letter or petition or whatever, if such a thing gets sent. Regards, Kirt On 4/13/11, Jedi wrote: > The blind man has a sign that says "I'm blind, please help." The > sighted lady change his sign so it now reads "It's a beautiful day and > I can't see it." > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> My assumption is that the video is inaccessible and doesn't have >> audio descriptions because they are only targeting sighted people >> in this approach. They probably either don't want blind people >> to know that they're doing this kind of advertising and posting >> this video about stereotypical misconceptions about blind people >> because they probably know that the blind people who want to view >> the video are going to be put down. That is why I think the >> video is inaccessible to us and without descriptions. This is >> just my opinion on this. Any thoughts? > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Date sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:10:03 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we >> want forourchildren with visual impairment? > >>> So...what exactly's going on with this. I was confused, being >> totally >>> blind and all, but for you to get this insensed about it there >> must be >>> a lot more going on I can't figure. > >>> On 4/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>>> I have a little vision and some of it did show begging. >>>> There were little actual words so I'm not sure of all the >> content. >>>> Perhaps you are sighted, Ann andcan explain what action was >> offensive? >>>> Its sad when comericials come about that pick on a minority. > >>>> Ashley > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Anne Ward >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 7:44 PM >>>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Power of words--is this the image we want >> for >>>> ourchildren with visual impairment? > >>>> This disgusting video is actually an ad for a public relations >> firm, but it >>>> is a terrible portrayal of a blind person. Possibly we can all >> protest to >>>> this firm, at the very least. >>>> ----- > >>>> I have to say YUK and Double YUK to this video. The pity button >> is not a >>>> desirable thing. Blind folks have been fighting for years to >> overcome the >>>> stereotype of "blind beggars" and pity for them not being able >> to see. The >>>> only thing missing in the video is that the guy was not selling >> pencils, >>>> lightbulbs or brooms door to door. > >>>> The image of the blind as pathetic beggars keeps public >> perception of the >>>> blind right back in the 19th century and the unemployment rate >> of capable >>>> blind people sky high. > >>>> I understand the point of the message but for those of us >> involved in the >>>> struggles for equal civil rights and opportunities for people >> with >>>> disabilities things like this video disgust and sadden us. It >> undoes so >>>> much of the work that we are doing. > >>>> This video really illustrates how well-meaning people can do >> great harm >>>> while trying to do good. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU > >>>> Anne Ward >>>> CAPVI >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma >> hb%40earthlink.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >>>> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> 5369%40netzero.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 15:53:04 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:53:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Mainstream Accessible eTextBooks; is there need for specialized assistive? Message-ID: With maisntream accessible eTextBooks portals: CourseSmart, Inkling for iPad,and VitalSource Bookshelf; is there a need for specialized assistive secluded for disabled services? I got an iPad 2 a few days ago. I've been very curious about Inkling as it provides interactive and a very rich textbook experience. It's an iPad only app, which I have installed, ran it through its paces, and is very accessible. CourseSmart and VitalSource have online and download versions, which work on Windows, Mac, iOS; any platform, browser, or screen reader. Both of these provide great accessibility, experience, and navigation. I've used it on my Dell XPS M1330, MacBook Pro 13", iPhone 4, and iPad 2. It's been about 6 months since I've used specialized assistive secluded textbooks, don't regret the switch, and think it's absolutely fantastic that there are mainstream accessible eTextBooks. Kevin From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 17:44:56 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:44:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Bookshare Conference Call for Students! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For your information ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Allison Hilliker Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:04:04 -0700 Subject: Bookshare Conference Call for Students! To: "dsmithnfb at gmail.com" Conference Call for Students Who Are Blind or Low Vision - April 17, 2011 Making Bookshare Work for You! Bookshare is an online digital library that is free for students in the United States. High school, college, and graduate students all find the collection to be an indispensible resource when it comes to finding the books they need for schoolwork and for pleasure reading. Join the conversation with Allison Hilliker, Bookshare Collection Development Associate and Cherie Miller, Bookshare's University Program Manager. We will be taking your questions live throughout the discussion. There is no need to pre-register for the event, just call in and join us. - Sunday, April 17, 2011, 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm PST - Phone number to call: 866-210-1669. Pass code: 656 During this discussion you will learn: * What Bookshare is and how you can become a member * How Bookshare can make your school work and pleasure reading much easier * About our new Read2Go app; an app specifically designed for the Apple iOS that will allow for quick download and easy reading of Bookshare books on the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone * How to use Bookshare most efficiently and effectively with your notetaker or digital book player. We look forward to talking with you on April 17! -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 18:00:16 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 11:00:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] next nabs membership call, this sunday! Message-ID: Hello Students, This month’s membership call should be quite interesting. We’ve seen the discussions on the list serve expressing your hopes and concerns about the future of our beloved NFB, and we thought it would be a great idea, since we as students are in fact the future leaders of the organized blind movement, if we got together to talk about this topic, in particular, the roles and responsibilities of NABS and its affiliate divisions. We have divisions of varying strengths and sizes, which is all the more reason that they should be included in shaping the future of NABS. We will discuss how all of our work can tie into the NFB as a whole, and how important it is that the student divisions have a working relationship with their state affiliate. These are just some ideas that can be thrown around, so bring your questions over for discussion. Call details are below. Who: NABS Membership Committee. What: Conference call about the future of the NFB and NABS. When: Sunday April 17th, 2011 at 7:00 PM EST. Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by pass code 257963. Why: So we can bring our ideas together to pave the way for the next generation. We’re looking forward to hearing your ideas and feedback. If you cannot make this conference call, remember that it will be recorded so you can listen later. See you on Sunday. Respectfully, Your NABS Membership Committee -- Darian Smith board member National Association of Blind Students 2nd Vice-president California Association of Blind Students Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Apr 14 20:36:18 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:36:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Please check out my latest blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, Please check out my newest blog at: http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/04/14/using-the-long-white-cane/ Today, I write about using the long white cane. It is about my first independent travel lesson. FYI: Before anyone criticizes me, I write about the cane because it is the only travel method I have ever worked with. I have been accused of saying the cane is superior, but I am not making this claim. I can only write about my experience. Thanks. Bridgit Kuenning Pollpeter From z.dreicer at emissives.com Fri Apr 15 01:20:10 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:20:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Apex and gmail Message-ID: what are the settings you used? Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Drenth" Are you a blind college student or blind professional who is passionate about mentoring high school aged blind youth? Would you enjoy spending 2 weeks in the Sierra Nevada mountains of northern California in a fun, recreational, educational setting? If so, the Society for the Blind is currently recruiting counselors for our annual Youth Retreat from August 5-14. Counselors would receive round-trip transportation to and from Sacramento, lodging and meals at the camp, and a small stipend. We are looking for individuals who are energetic, self-motivated, and comfortable operating independently and unassisted within an outdoor summer camp setting. What We Do The Society for the Blind’s Summer Youth Retreat shows its belief in our youth by both supporting and demanding excellence. All youth are expected, with training, to participate without direct physical assistance from staff. This means they gather their own wood for campfires, find their own way down gravel paths, and prepare their own lunches. Each day, students will participate in activities such as swimming, water games, field games, hiking, and horseback riding. Experiences with adaptive technology and orientation and mobility will also be offered. Evenings will be filled with campfires, skits, talent shows, and other opportunities for youth to share experiences and learn from each other and from their blind counselors. The camp will take place at Camp Ross Relles, a wilderness camp owned and operated by the local Lions Clubs of northern California. Two meals a day (breakfast and supper) will be provided by Camp Ross Relles kitchen staff. Students will have the opportunity to prepare their own lunches. For more information on the Society for the Blind, please visit www.societyfortheblind.org. For more information on Camp Ross Relles and its’ facilities, please visit: http://www.camprossrelles.com/our_history.php If you’re interested in working as a counselor at this empowering retreat, please contact Stacy Cervenka at scervenka at societyfortheblind.org or (916) 889-7545. Stacy Cervenka Youth Programs Coordinator Society for the Blind 1238 S Street Sacramento, CA 95811 Direct Line: (916) 889-7545 Main Line: (916) 452-8271 Email: scervenka at societyfortheblind.org From nsyncec17 at comcast.net Thu Apr 14 04:46:51 2011 From: nsyncec17 at comcast.net (erica) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 00:46:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] brailesense plus questionRe: nabs-l Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D825FDDC9B1499E963A950A78DE9081@EricaPC> Hello anyone know why hims took over the brailesense? I need to up date so I can us micsoft word2007 and haven't let let me know Erica. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18 Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: RFB&D changing its name (Kirt Manwaring) 2. Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees (Annemarie Cooke) 3. Re: Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) 4. Re: print documents and Braille Note (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) 5. Re: RFB&D changing its name (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) 6. Re: RFB&D changing its name (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) 7. Re: RFB&D changing its name (Brianna Scerenscko) 8. Apex and gmail (Marsha Drenth) 9. Ben Bloomgren wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn (Ben Bloomgren) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:44:19 -0600 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Maybe I'm just a nutcase, but I thought RFB&D membership's been free to students for a couple years now? On 4/12/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > You're correct, Bridget. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was >> if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's >> disability services paid for a membership and requested material through >> them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a >> membership. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >> million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >> disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:55:30 -0400 From: Annemarie Cooke To: Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear NABS: Just to setthe record straight, memberships remain free for individual students who qualify for service because of disability. Please let me know if you have other questions. You also can emailme off-list: aec732 at gmail.com Thanks, all! Annemarie XCooke Learning Ally consultant and member ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:27:08 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Annemarie, How do they define student? Part time? Degree seeking ones qualify? Also how do you determine who is a student and who is not. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Annemarie Cooke Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:55 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Learning Ally (formerly FRFB&D) membership fees Dear NABS: Just to setthe record straight, memberships remain free for individual students who qualify for service because of disability. Please let me know if you have other questions. You also can emailme off-list: aec732 at gmail.com Thanks, all! Annemarie XCooke Learning Ally consultant and member _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:32:01 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Message-ID: <83F81B1B3C18452CA59105FA83AC409C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response No I've had it for years; maybe four years; but I usually just write on it and know enough to get by. I'd love to have upgraded technology to the Apex, but its too expensive to purchase privately; rehab buys equipment if you are full time student only. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 12:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Not a problem. If you need more information, feel free to email me off list. Are you new at using the BrailleNote? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks Nicole. So many document options and I'm not sure what all mean and what is the best. I'll try keyword braille then. -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note You actually want the keyword Braille instead of BRF. BRF does not save place markers. Also, single carriage returns are often lost during translation to BRF. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note Thanks. I'll look for .brf format then. I have a braille style keyboard. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] print documents and Braille Note If I'm not mistaking, .brf which is a plain braille format should be available on mPower, but keyword braille format should be good as well. Dezman On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Ashley: > You can read .doc on the Braillenote natively. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:01 AM, < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have a Braille Note m?power. > > It has several ports. > > So I can put documents on a USB drive and read from the USB drive on the > BrailleNote. > > > > I know how to save the text files on the USB drive. > > But to read in the BrailleNote I think it needs to be in .brf format. > > How do I convert from the typical .doc file to a .brf file? > > Can I do this on the BrailleNote end? > > > > Alternatively, I have an old version of Duxbury braille translator, DBT, > and > > I can save the file that way. But I am hoping there is a simple way to > put files on a thumb drive and read them on the BrailleNote. > > > > I have some documents from class and some documents of my own I?d like > > to > read on the BrailleNote in grade 2 braille as opposed to computer braille. > > So if you know how to transfer a text file that says .doc to the > BrailleNote, let me know. > > > > Thanks. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:47:03 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original No RFB has been free to students for a few years because of the Dept of education funding. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name You're correct, Bridget. Blessings, Joshua On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was > if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's > disability services paid for a membership and requested material through > them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a > membership. > > Bridgit > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 > million > congressional earmarks. > Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non > disability > sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. > > If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? > Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? > Ashley > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:47:56 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Kirt, YEs for at least two years, RFB membership has been free; I did not pay a fee last year. -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name Maybe I'm just a nutcase, but I thought RFB&D membership's been free to students for a couple years now? On 4/12/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > You're correct, Bridget. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was >> if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's >> disability services paid for a membership and requested material through >> them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a >> membership. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >> million >> congressional earmarks. >> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >> disability >> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >> >> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >> Ashley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:14:28 -0400 From: Brianna Scerenscko To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, RFB&D is free for students. :-) On 4/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Kirt, > YEs for at least two years, RFB membership has been free; I did not pay a > fee last year. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] RFB&D changing its name > > Maybe I'm just a nutcase, but I thought RFB&D membership's been free > to students for a couple years now? > > On 4/12/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> You're correct, Bridget. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/11/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> I thought we always had to pay for RFB&D. I thought the exception was >>> if your state agency covered the membership, or if your school's >>> disability services paid for a membership and requested material through >>> them. Otherwise people who qualify for the services have to pay for a >>> membership. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 8 >>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:35:36 -0400 >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: RFB&D is Changing Its Name >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> I heard from another list that RFB is losing their funding, the 13.3 >>> million >>> congressional earmarks. >>> Maybe the name change is also to generate more revenue from non >>> disability >>> sources; saying Learning in the title may open them up to more donors. >>> >>> If the funding cut is true, how does this affect us? >>> Will we have to pay a membership fee again? Anyone know? >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > -- Brianna Scerenscko ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:08:50 -0400 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: [nabs-l] Apex and gmail Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Students, I am trying to get my gmail set up so that I can check email from my APEX. I have set up numerous email accounts through outlook and so forth, so I am familiar with doing that. My question is what are the settings? It seems I have all the info right, but I get an error. If anyone else has done this, please help! Its greatly appreciated! Marsha ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:44:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Ben Bloomgren To: National list Subject: [nabs-l] Ben Bloomgren wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <2078688240.2979779.1302677074236.JavaMail.app at ela4-bed78.prod> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 LinkedIn ------------ National, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Ben Bloomgren Ben Bloomgren Translation and Localization Professional Phoenix, Arizona Area Confirm that you know Ben Bloomgren https://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-gmfwangb-2k/isd/2686060212/nnXnt-Eh/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18 ************************************** From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 01:03:43 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 19:03:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Looking for Student Seminar Reports Message-ID: Please note-the deadline for this has been extended by one more day. Hi all, It is my understanding that several of our state student divisons happened to have seminars, annual business meetings, or other activities this past weekend. We'd like to publish a special NABS bulletin highlighting all the exciting student events that happened across the country last weekend. I'm asking for your help in composing this bulletin. If you had a student event last weekend, or anytime in the last month, please write up a brief (paragraph or two) report on what you did, where it was, who came, etc. Please send your reports to me by Sunday, April 17, at 9:00 p.m. EST. You can send them to me at nabs.president at gmail.com This is a great way for you to tell the national NABS what's been happening in your state! Looking forward to reading all your reports. Arielle From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 17 04:58:58 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 21:58:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Please check out my latest blog References: Message-ID: <4772360B321948D6BD4D6A0AB68AFE22@stanford.edu> Bridget brings up a good, very important point that I think that we all need to keep in mind, regardless of topic. Everyone has his/her own method that works for that specific person. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:36 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Please check out my latest blog > > Hello, > > Please check out my newest blog at: > > http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/04/14/using-the-long-white-cane/ > > Today, I write about using the long white cane. It is about my first > independent travel lesson. > > FYI: Before anyone criticizes me, I write about the cane because it is > the only travel method I have ever worked with. I have been accused of > saying the cane is superior, but I am not making this claim. I can only > write about my experience. > > Thanks. > > Bridgit Kuenning Pollpeter > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 18:05:49 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 11:05:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs membership call: future of NFB/NABS (Today!) Message-ID: Hello Students, This month’s membership call should be quite interesting. We’ve seen the discussions on the list serve expressing your hopes and concerns about the future of our beloved NFB, and we thought it would be a great idea, since we as students are in fact the future leaders of the organized blind movement, if we got together to talk about this topic, in particular, the roles and responsibilities of NABS and its affiliate divisions. We have divisions of varying strengths and sizes, which is all the more reason that they should be included in shaping the future of NABS. We will discuss how all of our work can tie into the NFB as a whole, and how important it is that the student divisions have a working relationship with their state affiliate. These are just some ideas that can be thrown around, so bring your questions over for discussion. Call details are below. Who: NABS Membership Committee. What: Conference call about the future of the NFB and NABS. When: Sunday April 17th, 2011 at 7:00 PM EST. Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by pass code 257963. Why: So we can bring our ideas together to pave the way for the next generation. We’re looking forward to hearing your ideas and feedback. If you cannot make this conference call, remember that it will be recorded so you can listen later. See you on Sunday. Respectfully, Your NABS Membership Committee -- Darian Smith board member National Association of Blind Students 2nd Vice-president California Association of Blind Students Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 18:30:12 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 11:30:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Bookshare Conference Call for Students! Message-ID: For your information, please spread the word to all students! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Allison Hilliker Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:04:04 -0700 Subject: Bookshare Conference Call for Students! To: "dsmithnfb at gmail.com" Conference Call for Students Who Are Blind or Low Vision - April 17, 2011 Making Bookshare Work for You! Bookshare is an online digital library that is free for students in the United States. High school, college, and graduate students all find the collection to be an indispensible resource when it comes to finding the books they need for schoolwork and for pleasure reading. Join the conversation with Allison Hilliker, Bookshare Collection Development Associate and Cherie Miller, Bookshare's University Program Manager. We will be taking your questions live throughout the discussion. There is no need to pre-register for the event, just call in and join us. - Sunday, April 17, 2011, 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm PST - Phone number to call: 866-210-1669. Pass code: 656 During this discussion you will learn: * What Bookshare is and how you can become a member * How Bookshare can make your school work and pleasure reading much easier * About our new Read2Go app; an app specifically designed for the Apple iOS that will allow for quick download and easy reading of Bookshare books on the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone * How to use Bookshare most efficiently and effectively with your notetaker or digital book player. We look forward to talking with you on April 17! -- Darian Smith Board Member national Association of Blind Students 2nd Vice-president California Association of Blind Students. Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From davidb521 at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 20:03:29 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 15:03:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Rates for Drivers Message-ID: <4dab479d.1836640a.4191.ffffda7e@mx.google.com> Hi, I am looking in to the possibility of hiring drivers, and am curious about standard rates. What do you usually pay a driver? I assume that you have an hourly rate plus fuel costs? Any information would be very useful. Thanks. David From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 21:33:05 2011 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 14:33:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Rates for Drivers In-Reply-To: <4dab479d.1836640a.4191.ffffda7e@mx.google.com> References: <4dab479d.1836640a.4191.ffffda7e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4DAB5C91.7010806@gmail.com> Hello David, I have had success paying $10/hour and 30 cents per mile. It has been working so far, but there might come a time where the mileage reembersement may need to increase a bit due to the ongoing high gas prices. I am in Phoenix, Ariz. This rate may vary depending on where you are located. Hope this helps. Regards, Darrell On 4/17/2011 1:03 PM, David wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking in to the possibility of hiring drivers, and am curious about > standard rates. What do you usually pay a driver? I assume that you have an > hourly rate plus fuel costs? Any information would be very useful. Thanks. > > David > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 21:41:06 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 14:41:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Important: Bookshare Student Conference Call Number Change! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Allison Hilliker Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 14:27:25 -0700 Subject: Important: Bookshare Student Conference Call Number Change! To: Note the updated call pass code below ===== Conference Call for Students Who Are Blind or Low Vision - April 17, 2011 Making Bookshare Work for You! Bookshare is an online digital library that is free for students in the United States. High school, college, and graduate students all find the collection to be an indispensible resource when it comes to finding the books they need for schoolwork and for pleasure reading. Join the conversation with Allison Hilliker, Bookshare Collection Development Associate and Cherie Miller, Bookshare's University Program Manager. We will be taking your questions live throughout the discussion. There is no need to pre-register for the event, just call in and join us. - Sunday, April 17, 2011, 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm PST - Phone number to call: 866-210-1669. Pass code: 6567672 During this discussion you will learn: * What Bookshare is and how you can become a member * How Bookshare can make your school work and pleasure reading much easier * About our new Read2Go app; an app specifically designed for the Apple iOS that will allow for quick download and easy reading of Bookshare books on the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone * How to use Bookshare most efficiently and effectively with your notetaker or digital book player. We look forward to talking with you on April 17! -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Sun Apr 17 22:40:06 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 17:40:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] brailesense plus questionRe: nabs-l Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: <8D825FDDC9B1499E963A950A78DE9081@EricaPC> References: <8D825FDDC9B1499E963A950A78DE9081@EricaPC> Message-ID: Hi, The BrailleSense is a Hims product; GW Micro was only a distributor, at least that is how I understood it. Hims is now separate from GW Micro, with their own website: http://www.hims-inc.com/products Take care, and I hope that helps. Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 17 23:41:51 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 18:41:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Braille Note for Sale Message-ID: > > >RyanO > > >I have an 18 cell Braille Note MPower that I am looking to cell. Keysoft >version 7.2 is on it. I have had it for two years and it has been gently >used. In the box are, Braille and print manuals, a USB cable, a USB floppy >drive, an active cync cable, and older keysoft cds as well as a keysoft >tutorial cd. I am asking $1500 for it or best offer. Please email me at > >katy at n-republic.net > >with your interest. I accept paypal payments. > > > >Thank you. > > > >Katy Todd From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 18 00:53:56 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:53:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Rates for Drivers In-Reply-To: <4DAB5C91.7010806@gmail.com> References: <4dab479d.1836640a.4191.ffffda7e@mx.google.com> <4DAB5C91.7010806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <06F6C9B0145A47CFA6768CA57E742359@OwnerPC> Hi all, This is of concern to me too because if I have a job away from a metro station, I might hire a driver. I don't want to give up a job because of unreliable paratransit service! So, do you pay the $10 plus milage? How do you know how many miles from A to B? Do you research ahead of time and give them directions? That way you know the milage? Otherwise, I guess you take their word for it like its 12 miles from A to B. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Darrell Shandrow Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:33 PM To: davidb521 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rates for Drivers Hello David, I have had success paying $10/hour and 30 cents per mile. It has been working so far, but there might come a time where the mileage reembersement may need to increase a bit due to the ongoing high gas prices. I am in Phoenix, Ariz. This rate may vary depending on where you are located. Hope this helps. Regards, Darrell On 4/17/2011 1:03 PM, David wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking in to the possibility of hiring drivers, and am curious about > standard rates. What do you usually pay a driver? I assume that you have > an > hourly rate plus fuel costs? Any information would be very useful. Thanks. > > David > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Mon Apr 18 01:12:40 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:12:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Rates for Drivers In-Reply-To: <06F6C9B0145A47CFA6768CA57E742359@OwnerPC> References: <4dab479d.1836640a.4191.ffffda7e@mx.google.com> <4DAB5C91.7010806@gmail.com> <06F6C9B0145A47CFA6768CA57E742359@OwnerPC> Message-ID: This all is going to vary from person to person, and depending on your style. You could ask the driver for their odometer reading at beginning and end of trip, and figure it yourself if you want, or you can have them tell you how many miles. Mapquest will give you distance between two different addresses. Someone mentioned paying 30 cents per mile. That may be on the low side, particularly with gas going up. The IRS rate is fifty something cents I believe, it is refigured each year. There is no right, or perfect answer, it is what works for you and what you are comfortable with. Dave At 07:53 PM 4/17/2011, you wrote: >Hi all, >This is of concern to me too because if I have a job away from a >metro station, I might hire a driver. >I don't want to give up a job because of unreliable paratransit service! >So, do you pay the $10 plus milage? How do you know how many miles >from A to B? >Do you research ahead of time and give them directions? >That way you know the milage? >Otherwise, I guess you take their word for it like its 12 miles from A to B. > >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- From: Darrell Shandrow >Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:33 PM >To: davidb521 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rates for Drivers > >Hello David, > >I have had success paying $10/hour and 30 cents per mile. It has been >working so far, but there might come a time where the mileage >reembersement may need to increase a bit due to the ongoing high gas prices. > >I am in Phoenix, Ariz. This rate may vary depending on where you are >located. > >Hope this helps. > >Regards, > >Darrell > > >On 4/17/2011 1:03 PM, David wrote: >>Hi, >> >>I am looking in to the possibility of hiring drivers, and am curious about >>standard rates. What do you usually pay a driver? I assume that you have an >>hourly rate plus fuel costs? Any information would be very useful. Thanks. >> >>David From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 01:26:49 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 21:26:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question Message-ID: I have a question concerning orientation and mobility instructors. When I was at our state rehabilitation center back in 1999, the head mobility instructor had an intern working with me, and the intern said I couldn't do mobility, because I had spacal issues, and now eleven years later, I've asked rehab to give me mobility training again, and so they are referring me to the lighthouse. However, My councilor told me, that I shouldn't let the fact that an intern evaluated me, and that certification isn't everything. to which my sister responded, "RJ, I could teach you mobility." My question is, Is certification everything? RJ From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 18 03:23:48 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 23:23:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: RJ, I believe someone teaching you O&M initially needs to be certified. They need to know how to teach and what clues to tell you. You will learn how to line up and cross streets and use orientation clues. Once you have basics down, then your sister or anyone can orient you. But I think the basics of mobility like sweeping the cane, crossing streets with your hearing, learning more mental mapping, etc need to be taught by someone certified, either a traditional certification or the NFB one, the NOMC. But no, no I would not just have anyone teach you mobility! They don't know what a blind person needs to "look" for with their cane, or how to cross streets like we do. As to your spatial issues, I can relate because I heard similar stories from a few instructors. I have trouble telling how A to B relate to each other. That intern was wrong; I wouldn't worry about what they said. Your counselor is kind of right in saying not to worry because an intern evaluated you. That is just one opinion. I think you should just go on with a new instructor and be clear on your needs without rehashing who said what in the past. You will probably have to memorize more with spatial challenges. Maps have helped me because I don't know the relationship in my head. So you may want the instructor to draw you a map. If you have no vision, yours will be tactile; when I saw draw, I mean produce. NFB does not favor route travel, but sometimes it’s the best way to begin or to go to a destination so you can ensure you get there and don't get lost. For me, I can so easily feel lost with one different turn or deviation from a route. I'll only go alternate routes in familiar places. What helps me is also writing directions down step by step. That may help you. If you are a tactile/kinestetic learner, you can take a map and rehearse the route on the map first. Follow the tactile lines and mentally go through what you plan to do. Then i f your finger feels the right landmarks and destination at the end, you've done the route right. Good luck; I hope that the lighthouse can help you this time and they don't say negative things because of your spatial issues. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question I have a question concerning orientation and mobility instructors. When I was at our state rehabilitation center back in 1999, the head mobility instructor had an intern working with me, and the intern said I couldn't do mobility, because I had spacal issues, and now eleven years later, I've asked rehab to give me mobility training again, and so they are referring me to the lighthouse. However, My councilor told me, that I shouldn't let the fact that an intern evaluated me, and that certification isn't everything. to which my sister responded, "RJ, I could teach you mobility." My question is, Is certification everything? RJ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 03:40:04 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 20:40:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: RJ, I would say that it has been documented that the blind have taught each other how to travel effectivly and independently without certfication in the past, in fact we still do it now. However, in order to be employed gainfully, one has to be certified in some manner or another. if you want to learn how to travel to the best of your ability, you should absolutely keep at it. Best, Darian On 4/17/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > RJ, > I believe someone teaching you O&M initially needs to be certified. They > need to know how to teach and what clues to tell you. > You will learn how to line up and cross streets and use orientation clues. > Once you have basics down, then your sister or anyone can orient you. > But I think the basics of mobility like sweeping the cane, crossing streets > with your hearing, learning more mental mapping, etc need to be taught by > someone certified, either a traditional certification or the NFB one, the > NOMC. > But no, no I would not just have anyone teach you mobility! They don't know > what a blind person needs to "look" for with their cane, or how to cross > streets like we do. > > As to your spatial issues, I can relate because I heard similar stories from > a few instructors. > I have trouble telling how A to B relate to each other. > That intern was wrong; I wouldn't worry about what they said. > Your counselor is kind of right in saying > not to worry because an intern evaluated you. That is just one opinion. > I think you should just go on with a new instructor and be clear on your > needs without rehashing who said what in the past. > You will probably have to memorize more with spatial challenges. Maps have > helped me because I don't know the relationship in my head. So you may want > the instructor to draw you a map. > If you have no vision, yours will be tactile; when I saw draw, I mean > produce. > NFB does not favor route travel, but sometimes it’s the best way to begin or > to go to a destination so you can ensure you get there and don't get lost. > For me, I can so easily feel lost with one different turn or deviation from > a route. > I'll only go alternate routes in familiar places. What helps me is also > writing directions down step by step. > That may help you. If you are a tactile/kinestetic learner, you can take a > map and rehearse the route on the map first. Follow the tactile lines and > mentally go through what you plan to do. Then i f your finger feels the > right landmarks and destination at the end, you've done the route right. > > Good luck; I hope that the lighthouse can help you this time and they don't > say negative things because of your spatial issues. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question > > I have a question concerning orientation and mobility instructors. When I > was at our state rehabilitation center back in 1999, the head mobility > instructor had an intern working with me, and the intern said I couldn't do > mobility, because I had spacal issues, and now eleven years later, I've > asked rehab to give me mobility training again, and so they are referring me > to the lighthouse. However, My councilor told me, that I shouldn't let the > fact that an intern evaluated me, and that certification isn't everything. > to which my sister responded, "RJ, I could teach you mobility." My question > is, Is certification everything? RJ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Apr 18 13:21:14 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 08:21:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Yes, I believe that certification is very important. Certification shows that the individual in question has met the professional standards for the career as far as the required knowledge is concerned, and it also shows good on the person in that they were willing to go the "extra" mile to get certified, that they take pride in their career and value themselves as a professional. Take care, Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From tinadt at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 18 19:52:34 2011 From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (Tina Thomas) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:52:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nemeth code Message-ID: <016f01cbfe02$29e7fc10$7db7f430$@net> Hello there- Does anyone have a nemeth code reference sheet that could be emailed to me? Thanks. Tina From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 21:54:33 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:54:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Yodisabledproud] Webinar: Evacuation of Students with and without Access & Functional Needs In-Reply-To: <95492840868F0D4EA1E69C00409EAEEE27843ADA45@UTOPIA.CFSBS.local> References: <95492840868F0D4EA1E69C00409EAEEE27843ADA45@UTOPIA.CFSBS.local> Message-ID: Hi all, Just passing this along to whomever may find this of interest. If you don't find it of interest, please feel just as free to ignore. I might check it out- who knows, maybe I might learn something. :) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Teresa Favuzzi Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:12:00 -0700 Subject: [Yodisabledproud] Webinar: Evacuation of Students with and without Access & Functional Needs To: "youthleadership at cftalk.org" , "yodisabledproud at cftalk.org" From: FEMA-Disability-Integration-Coordination [mailto:Fema-Disability-Integration-Coordination at dhs.gov] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: Webinar Announcement Access and Functional Needs Evacuation Dear Colleagues; Marcie Roth, Director of the Office of Disability Integration and Coordination, happy to inform you of the Community Preparedness Webinar Series. This first webinar will discuss the Evacuation of Students with and without Access and Functional Needs and will be very informative, please feel free to forward to others that may be interested. Community Preparedness Webinar Series Evacuation of Students with and without Access and Functional Needs Monday, April 25, 2011, 12 PM EST You should login 10 minutes prior to the start of the webinar. Access the webinar here. Overview Join us for a webinar on Evacuating Students With and Without Access and Functional Needs. On April 25, 2011, Marcie Roth, director of the Office for Disability Integration and Coordination at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and Richard Devylder, Senior Advisor for Accessible Transportation at the U.S. Department of Transportation, will be providing strategies for planning and responding to the needs of children during evacuations. Both are national leaders in planning for and responding to the needs of children and adults with disabilities and others with access and functional needs. The webinar will be an opportunity to look at planning and responding from a functional needs perspective and a universal team approach. Related links and resources * Access and Functional Needs Transportation and Evacuation Planning Toolkit (Cal EMA) * Drop, Cover, and Hold On: Modifications for People with Disabilities or Access and Functional Needs (Cal EMA) [PDF, 442 KB] * Feeling Safe, Being Safe Workbook (CA DDS) How to view our webinars The Community Preparedness Webinar Series is conducted via DHS's HSIN Connect system. You do not need to register in advance, nor do you need a HSIN account in order to view our webinars. Audio for this webinar will be broadcast within HSIN Connect; there will not be a concurrent, phone-based teleconference. Questions and answers will be moderated via text-based chat inside the webinar. In order to ensure that your computer is capable of viewing our webinars and webcasts, we highly recommend that you read the below documents and perform the compatibility test prior to the start of the event. In addition, please ensure your computer's speakers are working prior to the webinar. If for any reason you have trouble accessing the system, please send an email to citizencorps at dhs.gov. Using HSIN Connect (PDF) | Perform Compatibility Test Additional information about this webinar This webinar is free to the public and will accommodate the first 500 visitors that enter the site. This webinar will last approximately one hour. In addition to airing live, the webinar will be recorded and viewable at a later date and linked from this web page. The live webinar will offer Closed Captioning and a transcript of the webinar will be posted with the recorded version of the webinar. From: Roth, Marcie [mailto:Marcie.Roth at dhs.gov] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:50 PM To: Roth, Marcie; richard.devylder at dot.gov; Hathaway, Alison Cc: Crane, Thomas J; Dennis, Latisha Subject: RE: Webinar Announcement Please copy the final to LaTisha Dennis (copied Here) and she will get it out to our distro. Marcie Roth Director Office of Disability Integration and Coordination Department of Homeland Security/ FEMA 202.212.1537 (office) 202.285.9231 (cell) marcie.roth at dhs.gov www.fema.gov/about/odic “FEMA’s mission is to support our citizens and first responders to ensure that as a nation we work together to build, sustain, and improve our capacity to prepare for, protect against, respond to, recover from, and mitigate all hazards.” From: Roth, Marcie [mailto:Marcie.Roth at dhs.gov] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:41 AM To: richard.devylder at dot.gov; AHathaway at icfi.com; Roth, Marcie Cc: Crane, Thomas J Subject: Re: Webinar Announcement Aloha! This looks great! Marcie Roth Director Office of Disability Integration and Coordination U.S. Department of Homeland Security/Federal Emergency Management Agency 202.212.1537 (office) 202.285.9231 (cell) marcie.roth at dhs.gov www.fema.gov/about/odic ________________________________ From: prvs=082edbd97=richard.devylder at dot.gov To: AHathaway at icfi.com ; Roth, Marcie Cc: Crane, Thomas J Sent: Mon Apr 18 11:36:50 2011 Subject: RE: Webinar Announcement Looks fine. Here is what I had drafted if you want to use any of it. On April 25, 2011, Marcie Roth, director of the Office for Disability Integration and Coordination at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and Richard Devylder, Senior Advisor for Accessible Transportation at the U.S. Department of Transportation, will be providing strategies for planning and responding to the needs of children during evacuations. Both were appointed to their positions by President Barack Obama and are national leaders in planning for and responding to the needs of children and adults with disabilities and others with access and functional needs. The webinar will be an opportunity to look at planning and responding from a functional needs perspective and a universal team approach. Richard From: Hathaway, Alison [mailto:AHathaway at icfi.com] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:32 AM To: Devylder, Richard (OST); Marcie.Roth at dhs.gov Cc: Thomas.J.Crane at dhs.gov Subject: Webinar Announcement Richard and Marcie, Please see the attached webinar announcement we would like to send out today. Do you have any edits before we send? Alison Alison Hathaway| 404.416.3980 (mobile)| ahathaway at icfi.com www.icfi.com [cid:image001.png at 01CBFDE7.C11F7C90] -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 15193 bytes Desc: not available URL: From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Tue Apr 19 02:29:54 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:29:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations Message-ID: Hello dear students: Today I had a bad experience while riding the city bus on my town. Well, Bus drivers are usually quite good about letting me know which bus number I am getting on, and sometimes they call on my stop when I want to get off. But today, I was trying to tell the driver what bus number I was getting on, and he did not answer. I kept telling him and telling him over and over and he * will not * answer my question. Once again, I was trying to tell him where I wanted to get dropped off, which street and bus stop and everything, and he ** ABSOLUTELY DID NOT ** respond to my questions and so I kept insisting and insisting over and over. The ones who helped more where strangers who were on the bus rather than this stupid bus driver that will not communicate with me and will not answer my questions of whether it was the right bus and the right stop and did not even call out bus stops! I'm sorry if I sound a little too blunt, but what can I do? I felt so frustrated! Had anyone have these issues before? Any other terrible experiences that you might be willing to share? Again I'm frustrated about this bus driver and I'm afraid that it will happen again in a near future and get dropped off at the wrong stop possibly at the other side of the city or perhaps at other city. Aren't bus drivers supposed to be nice? Any thoughts? Ideas? Concerns? Tips? suggestions? Cheers, Humberto From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 19 03:05:52 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:05:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <932FD87BB231482C915A606E8FA2CBC2@OwnerPC> Humberto, What did he do? Just ignor you? That's a bad experience; I'd try and get his name to report him next time; report to the transit company I mean. If you don't know his name, but you still have the bus number and street you were at, you could probably still file a complaint. Yes drivers are supposed to tell you verbal info like this as an accomodation; yes they should be nice to all people; after all they are supposed to serve the public! But sadly, they don't always do their job. If I were you, I'd ask before getting off the bus to a passenger to ensure you were at the right stop. If you are lost and cannot find your way, I'd just go to a business where you know you're at an address and then call a cab to get you home or to your destination. You cannot just call a cab though on a city block. You got to have an address; that is why I suggest going into a store. Of course if you can ask questions and figure out your location, you may be able to get a different bus or something to get un-lost. But if Not, IMO, a cab is a safe and reliable alternative. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: humberto Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:29 PM To: nabs-l at nfbNet.org Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations Hello dear students: Today I had a bad experience while riding the city bus on my town. Well, Bus drivers are usually quite good about letting me know which bus number I am getting on, and sometimes they call on my stop when I want to get off. But today, I was trying to tell the driver what bus number I was getting on, and he did not answer. I kept telling him and telling him over and over and he * will not * answer my question. Once again, I was trying to tell him where I wanted to get dropped off, which street and bus stop and everything, and he ** ABSOLUTELY DID NOT ** respond to my questions and so I kept insisting and insisting over and over. The ones who helped more where strangers who were on the bus rather than this stupid bus driver that will not communicate with me and will not answer my questions of whether it was the right bus and the right stop and did not even call out bus stops! I'm sorry if I sound a little too blunt, but what can I do? I felt so frustrated! Had anyone have these issues before? Any other terrible experiences that you might be willing to share? Again I'm frustrated about this bus driver and I'm afraid that it will happen again in a near future and get dropped off at the wrong stop possibly at the other side of the city or perhaps at other city. Aren't bus drivers supposed to be nice? Any thoughts? Ideas? Concerns? Tips? suggestions? Cheers, Humberto _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Tue Apr 19 03:20:29 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:20:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations Message-ID: Yes, he just ignored me, either that, or he just shook his head maybe. He shd've at least that I'm blind and that I can not hear his head rattle. He should have at least told me something! >----- Original Message ----- >From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:05:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations >Humberto, >What did he do? Just ignor you? >That's a bad experience; I'd try and get his name to report him next time; >report to the transit company I mean. >If you don't know his name, but you still have the bus number and street you >were at, you could probably still file a complaint. >Yes drivers are supposed to tell you verbal info like this as an >accomodation; yes they should be nice to all people; after all they are >supposed to serve the public! >But sadly, they don't always do their job. If I were you, I'd ask before >getting off the bus to a passenger to ensure you were at the right stop. >If you are lost and cannot find your way, I'd just go to a business where >you know you're at an address and then call a cab to get you home or to your >destination. >You cannot just call a cab though on a city block. You got to have an >address; that is why I suggest going into a store. >Of course if you can ask questions and figure out your location, you may be >able to get a different bus or something to get un-lost. >But if Not, IMO, a cab is a safe and reliable alternative. >Ashley >-----Original Message----- >From: humberto >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:29 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbNet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations >Hello dear students: >Today I had a bad experience while riding the city bus on my >town. >Well, Bus drivers are usually quite good about letting me know >which bus number I am getting on, and sometimes they call on my >stop when I want to get off. But today, I was trying to tell the >driver what bus number I was getting on, and he did not answer. I >kept telling him and telling him over and over and he * will not >* answer my question. >Once again, I was trying to tell him where I wanted to get >dropped off, which street and bus stop and everything, and he ** >ABSOLUTELY DID NOT ** respond to my questions and so I kept >insisting and insisting over and over. The ones who helped more >where strangers who were on the bus rather than this stupid bus >driver that will not communicate with me and will not answer my >questions of whether it was the right bus and the right stop and >did not even call out bus stops! I'm sorry if I sound a little >too blunt, but what can I do? I felt so frustrated! Had anyone >have these issues before? Any other terrible experiences that you >might be willing to share? Again I'm frustrated about this bus >driver and I'm afraid that it will happen again in a near future >and get dropped off at the wrong stop possibly at the other side >of the city or perhaps at other city. Aren't bus drivers supposed >to be nice? Any thoughts? Ideas? Concerns? Tips? suggestions? >Cheers, Humberto >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 06:28:21 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 00:28:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Homberto, One thing I always do is sit in the very front of the bus, or as close to it as I can. That way it's easier to talk to the driver...although, if he's being an ass, I guess that doesn't make much of a difference. (or, rather, if he/she is being an ass. I gotta be politically correct. Wouldn't want to offend anyone.) If you were farther back it's possible the driver couldn't hear you...although he still definitely should've told you the bus number regardless. The only advice I can give is to make sure you ask the people on the bus to help you out if the driver's being an idiot. And, if you're dealing with a bad driver, don't be afraid to file a report with the bus company. Sometimes they take things like that seriously...and, even if they don't, it's good to let them know. And remember most bus drivers are pretty ok. Don't let one crappy experience ruin it for you...just cause there's a bad apple in a bag it doesn't mean you throw all of them out. Keep riding, don't be afraid to ask strangers to help if you need to...and always remember that, if all else fails, parents or friends can help bail you out of a really tight spot. And there's always a cab, or if you miss your stop it's not really difficult to catch a bus going back the other way. Annoying as heck, but doable if you really have to...and it's ok to ask for help finding the bus stop or whatever, especially in a place you don't really know all that well. So...basically, if you miss your stop for whatever reason, it's not the end of the world. You can ask directions, or maybe even ask someone to help you find the nearest bus stop to catch a bus going back the way you came if you feel like you need to. (and, I'm pretty sure lots of really independent travelers ask for that kind of help, particularly in areas they aren't really familiar with) Anyways, sorry for the rambling. Happy riding! Take care, Kirt On 4/18/11, humberto wrote: > Yes, he just ignored me, either that, or he just shook his head > maybe. He shd've at least that I'm blind and that I can not hear > his head rattle. He should have at least told me something! > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:05:52 -0400 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations > >>Humberto, >>What did he do? Just ignor you? >>That's a bad experience; I'd try and get his name to report him > next time; >>report to the transit company I mean. >>If you don't know his name, but you still have the bus number and > street you >>were at, you could probably still file a complaint. >>Yes drivers are supposed to tell you verbal info like this as an >>accomodation; yes they should be nice to all people; after all > they are >>supposed to serve the public! >>But sadly, they don't always do their job. If I were you, I'd ask > before >>getting off the bus to a passenger to ensure you were at the > right stop. >>If you are lost and cannot find your way, I'd just go to a > business where >>you know you're at an address and then call a cab to get you home > or to your >>destination. >>You cannot just call a cab though on a city block. You got to > have an >>address; that is why I suggest going into a store. >>Of course if you can ask questions and figure out your location, > you may be >>able to get a different bus or something to get un-lost. >>But if Not, IMO, a cab is a safe and reliable alternative. > >>Ashley > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: humberto >>Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:29 PM >>To: nabs-l at nfbNet.org >>Subject: [nabs-l] bus driver frustrations > >>Hello dear students: >>Today I had a bad experience while riding the city bus on my >>town. >>Well, Bus drivers are usually quite good about letting me know >>which bus number I am getting on, and sometimes they call on my >>stop when I want to get off. But today, I was trying to tell the >>driver what bus number I was getting on, and he did not answer. I >>kept telling him and telling him over and over and he * will not >>* answer my question. >>Once again, I was trying to tell him where I wanted to get >>dropped off, which street and bus stop and everything, and he ** >>ABSOLUTELY DID NOT ** respond to my questions and so I kept >>insisting and insisting over and over. The ones who helped more >>where strangers who were on the bus rather than this stupid bus >>driver that will not communicate with me and will not answer my >>questions of whether it was the right bus and the right stop and >>did not even call out bus stops! I'm sorry if I sound a little >>too blunt, but what can I do? I felt so frustrated! Had anyone >>have these issues before? Any other terrible experiences that you >>might be willing to share? Again I'm frustrated about this bus >>driver and I'm afraid that it will happen again in a near future >>and get dropped off at the wrong stop possibly at the other side >>of the city or perhaps at other city. Aren't bus drivers supposed >>to be nice? Any thoughts? Ideas? Concerns? Tips? suggestions? >>Cheers, Humberto > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From stacy.cervenka at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 20:10:49 2011 From: stacy.cervenka at gmail.com (Stacy Cervenka) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:10:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Summer Opportunities for Blind Youth in Northern California Message-ID: The Society for the Blind in Sacramento, California is pleased to be offering two exciting summer opportunities for blind and visually impaired youth in the northern California region. Employment Readiness and Experience (Ages 16 and Older) In June and July, we will again be conducting our Business Enterprise Program/Youth Empowerment Program (BEP/YEP). This 5-week program places blind and visually impaired youth in part-time summer jobs at businesses owned and operated by blind professionals. Youth will be paid for working Monday through Thursdays. On Fridays, participants will come to the Society for the Blind for seminars in job readiness (interviewing skills, resume writing, career exploration, self-presentation, self-advocacy, etc.) and the skills of blindness (cane travel, Braille, low vision aids, adaptive technology, etc). Summer Camp (Ages 11-18) >From August 4-15, youth are invited to our annual Summer Youth Retreat. At our Youth Retreat, we demonstrate our belief in our youth by both supporting and demanding excellence. All youth are expected, with training, to participate without direct physical assistance from staff. This means they gather their own wood for campfires, find their own way down gravel paths, and prepare their own lunches. Each day, students will participate in activities such as swimming, water games, field games, hiking, goalball, judo, and horseback riding. Experiences with orientation and mobility, Braille, daily living skills, and adaptive technology will also be offered. Evenings will be filled with campfires, skits, talent shows, and other opportunities for youth to share experiences and learn from each other and from their blind counselors. The first week of the camp will take place at Camp Ross Relles, a wilderness camp owned and operated by the local Lions Clubs of northern California. Two meals a day (breakfast and supper) will be provided by Camp Ross Relles kitchen staff. Students will have the opportunity to prepare their own lunches. For the final weekend of camp, youth will stay in Sacramento, where they will learn about using public transportation, urban travel, and visit the Society for the Blind for seminars in adaptive technology, college and career readiness, and other blindness skills. If you know of any blind or visually impaired youth who may be interested in either or both of these innovative and exciting summer programs, please contact Stacy Cervenka, Youth Programs Coordinator, at scervenka at societyfortheblind.org or (916) 889-7545. Stacy Cervenka Youth Programs Coordinator Society for the Blind 1238 S Street Sacramento, CA 95811 Direct Line: (916) 889-7545 Main Line: (916) 452-8271 Email: scervenka at societyfortheblind.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 20:14:17 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:14:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] mobility question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi RJ and all, I'd like to back up from the certification issue for a moment, and address what the intern said. I don't think it's fair to tell anyone they "can't do mobility". Even if you had no legs, you would still find a way to navigate your environment. Just like we all have different levels of ability at reading and math, we also have different levels of competence in travel and spatial understanding. But that doesn't mean any of us can't learn how to travel independently at all. You may need to start with more basic training in directions and mental mapping than the average O&M student, but that doesn't mean you can't start somewhere. I wouldn't let that extremely negative intern get to you even if she does have a certification. If you want to learn how to cross streets or navigate your home city on your own, then try to find a different O&M instructor or, if you can, make your way to a residential center like one of our NFB training centers. The centers have worked with a lot of different kinds of students including students who have trouble walking, who have intellectual disabilities or who are deaf-blind. I trust the NFB centers will accept you with open arms and be able to teach you what you need to learn. Arielle On 4/18/11, Liz Bottner wrote: > Hi, > > Yes, I believe that certification is very important. Certification shows > that the individual in question has met the professional standards for the > career as far as the required knowledge is concerned, and it also shows good > on the person in that they were willing to go the "extra" mile to get > certified, that they take pride in their career and value themselves as a > professional. > > Take care, > > Liz Bottner > Guiding Eyes Graduate Council > e-mail: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Apr 20 08:56:20 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: Hi, all. I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a loved one goes blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear people talk about the reactions of friends and family and their community when they lost their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list about sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us differently, or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in similar situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind students suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it is becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of both congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different opinions on matters like this in other disability groups, and the question really got me thinking. I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! -Jamie From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Apr 20 15:05:11 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:05:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jamie, I've wondered a lot about this. And, honestly, because the blind community has such a diversity of philosophy, I think the reaction would be mixed. Some people would be secretly envious while acting smug and saying their friend did it because they were uncomfortable being blind and didn't have the right skills or attitude. Others would probably go to the other extreme and be so happy their friend now could enjoy a full, complete, fulfilling normal life which, of course, isn't possible for a blind person. (heavy sarcasm) But I do think most people would go somewhere right near the halfway point between these two extremes, and still accept their friend, even be curious about it and happy for their friend, without changing much about their lives as blind people. Just my thoughts, Kirt On 4/20/11, Jamie Principato wrote: > Hi, all. > > I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a loved one goes > blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear people talk > about the reactions of friends and family and their community when they lost > their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list about > sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us differently, > or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. > > My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in similar > situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind students > suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it is > becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of both > congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different opinions on > matters like this in other disability groups, and the question really got me > thinking. > > I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! > > -Jamie > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Apr 20 15:19:11 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:19:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones Message-ID: <20110420151831.DFXW25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Hello Everyone, I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I know this was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking about switching to verizon. I called them and asked, but they did not seem to know anything about it and ended up telling me that they have "a hearing impaired center" when I asked about what products they have that are either compatible for screen reader software or have built in accessible screen readers. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Hannah From z.dreicer at emissives.com Wed Apr 20 15:53:09 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:53:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones Message-ID: if you need similar accessibility as the phone you previously had, will probably want the htc ozone. If you want the haven, which can not get on the internet but is completely accessible minus my verizon, that is $30 with a 2 year aggreement. There is iPhone 4 as well if you want that, but that's a touch screen phone. My friend, Curtis, did a podcast on the samsung haven. If you want it, email me and we'll make arrangements for sending you a copy. You can talk with me on facebook if you want further assistance. Talk to you soon! Your friend from nfb leadership, ZD/G (Zach Dreicer-griego) Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannah References: <20110420151831.DFXW25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: I am sorry for the duplicative question but is there any way to get a list of phones that are fully accessible using AT&T? Thank you in advance. Nathan On 4/20/11, Hannah wrote: > Hello Everyone, > I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I > know this was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking > about switching to verizon. I called them and asked, but they > did not seem to know anything about it and ended up telling me > that they have "a hearing impaired center" when I asked about > what products they have that are either compatible for screen > reader software or have built in accessible screen readers. > Thanks in advance. > Cheers, Hannah > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Apr 20 19:00:16 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:00:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones Message-ID: <20110420185934.IUFF25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> You can call the National Disability Center and they will tell you all the phones at and t has that are accessible with Mobile Speak, which can be purchased at a very low price. You can also go on the at and t web site. The number is: 1800-241-6568. Hope this helps. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Nathan Clark To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:03:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] verizon phones >I am sorry for the duplicative question but is there any way to get a >list of phones that are fully accessible using AT&T? >Thank you in advance. >Nathan >On 4/20/11, Hannah wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I >> know this was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking >> about switching to verizon. I called them and asked, but they >> did not seem to know anything about it and ended up telling me >> that they have "a hearing impaired center" when I asked about >> what products they have that are either compatible for screen >> reader software or have built in accessible screen readers. >> Thanks in advance. >> Cheers, Hannah >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troublecl ark%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Wed Apr 20 19:00:20 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:00:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones Message-ID: <20110420185939.IUGY25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I would like a very simple phone that is fully accessible with verizon. I would prefer a qwerty one if they have it. I'm not interested in the iPhone as of now. Thanks for the help. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "dreicer, zachary" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing listDate sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:53:09 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] verizon phones >if you need similar accessibility as the phone you previously >had, will probably want the htc ozone. If you want the haven, >which can not get on the internet but is completely accessible >minus my verizon, that is $30 with a 2 year aggreement. There is >iPhone 4 as well if you want that, but that's a touch screen >phone. My friend, Curtis, did a podcast on the samsung haven. >If you want it, email me and we'll make arrangements for sending >you a copy. > You can talk with me on facebook if you want >further assistance. >Talk to you soon! >Your friend from nfb leadership, >ZD/G (Zach Dreicer-griego) >Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Hannah To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >listDate sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:19:11 -0700 >Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones >Hello Everyone, >I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I >know this was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking >about switching to verizon. I called them and asked, but they >did not seem to know anything about it and ended up telling me >that they have "a hearing impaired center" when I asked about >what products they have that are either compatible for screen >reader software or have built in accessible screen readers. >Thanks in advance. >Cheers, Hannah >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >%40emissives.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From z.dreicer at emissives.com Wed Apr 20 19:35:35 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 13:35:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones Message-ID: i'd say probably the haven. It doesn't have a qwerty but it is fully accessible! Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannah Message-ID: Hey Zach, Do you know if you can use the BN Apex as a Braille display and typing device with this phone? I heard you can w/ some accessible phones. Thanks, Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of dreicer, zachary Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] verizon phones i'd say probably the haven. It doesn't have a qwerty but it is fully accessible! Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannah the haven, no. The Ozone, I'm not sure. The iPhone 4, yes! Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena Cucco" References: <20110420151831.DFXW25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Hannah, The verizon iphone is fully accessible and a great phone to use! I have had mine for about 3 weeks or so now and love it! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Hannah" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:19 AM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones > Hello Everyone, > I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I know this > was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking about switching to > verizon. I called them and asked, but they did not seem to know anything > about it and ended up telling me that they have "a hearing impaired > center" when I asked about what products they have that are either > compatible for screen reader software or have built in accessible screen > readers. Thanks in advance. > Cheers, Hannah > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com From th404 at comcast.net Wed Apr 20 23:32:22 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:32:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners Message-ID: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> I'm looking for a portable planner that I can use on the road, but also with Outlook and my PC. My options are: iPhone PakMate BrailleNote Icon/Braille Plus, or its successor A laptop or netbook Which of these tools have people used for calendar functions, and what do you like or dislike about them? Thanks. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Apr 20 23:35:06 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:35:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment Message-ID: Dear nabs list, So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I deserve, but at least I tried. ------------- Dear [professor's name omitted],  [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take the final and I'm getting a B in the class.  I apreciate the sentiment of what you're doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what I probably deserve.  It would certainly be more advantageous for me to get a B in the class.  But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a valuable learning experience, and here's why.  In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for.  I still chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework.  In retaking the class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to pretty much make my blindness a non-factor.  Or at least a very minimal factor.  I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, and I didn't do it all.  I did do better the second time around...but I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the course was worse than it was the first time I took it.  If we're going purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range.  And I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA.  But I didn't do the work to deserve that kind of grade.  If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript.  But I feel a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind.  And I can honestly say my blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work.  I know you've had blind students do amazing in your class before.  I know how to be successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed to to get a B grade.  And, although it's really attractive to me and I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want.  Take care and thanks for the class, Kirt From hope.paulos at gmail.com Wed Apr 20 23:48:44 2011 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:48:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: I actually use my htcs 743 phone as well as my IPod for planner functions. They work well. Hope Paulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Hansen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:32 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners > I'm looking for a portable planner that I can use on the road, but also > with Outlook and my PC. > > My options are: > iPhone > PakMate > BrailleNote > Icon/Braille Plus, or its successor > A laptop or netbook > > Which of these tools have people used for calendar functions, and what do > you like or dislike about them? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Apr 20 23:53:22 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:53:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Man...why'd I send him that email? I want that B! And...deep down, I hope he still lets me have it. On 4/20/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear nabs list, > So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a > logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the > class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the > homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough > in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I > found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's > giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I > sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you > think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know > some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially > this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of > compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to > make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my > blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this > letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I > deserve, but at least I tried. > ------------- > Dear [professor's name omitted], >  [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take > the final and I'm > getting a B in the class.  I apreciate the sentiment of what you're > doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what > I probably deserve.  It would certainly be more advantageous for me to > get a B in the class.  But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a > valuable learning experience, and here's why. >  In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for.  I still > chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework.  In retaking the > class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with > the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to > pretty much make my blindness a non-factor.  Or at least a very > minimal factor. >  I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, > and I didn't do it all.  I did do better the second time around...but > I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the > course was worse than it was the first time I took it.  If we're going > purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range.  And > I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA.  But I didn't do > the work to deserve that kind of grade. >  If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not > going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript.  But I feel > a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I > not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind.  And I can honestly say my > blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work.  I know you've > had blind students do amazing in your class before.  I know how to be > successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed > to to get a B grade.  And, although it's really attractive to me and > I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and > give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >  Take care and thanks for the class, > Kirt > From jty727 at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 00:38:22 2011 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:38:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones In-Reply-To: References: <20110420151831.DFXW25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: I have questions for the individuals with the new Verizon iphone. How accessible is this phone? I got the Sansom Haven a few months ago. Does this new phone speak everything? Thanks so much, Justin On 4/20/11, Karrie Kinstetter wrote: > Hannah, The verizon iphone is fully accessible and a great phone to use! I > have had mine for about 3 weeks or so now and love it! > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Hannah" > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:19 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones > >> Hello Everyone, >> I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I know this >> was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking about switching to >> verizon. I called them and asked, but they did not seem to know anything >> about it and ended up telling me that they have "a hearing impaired >> center" when I asked about what products they have that are either >> compatible for screen reader software or have built in accessible screen >> readers. Thanks in advance. >> Cheers, Hannah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Apr 21 00:39:40 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:39:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Kurt, I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering cuz I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. Thanks, Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment Dear nabs list, So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I deserve, but at least I tried. ------------- Dear [professor's name omitted],  [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take the final and I'm getting a B in the class.  I apreciate the sentiment of what you're doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what I probably deserve.  It would certainly be more advantageous for me to get a B in the class.  But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a valuable learning experience, and here's why.  In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for.  I still chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework.  In retaking the class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to pretty much make my blindness a non-factor.  Or at least a very minimal factor.  I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, and I didn't do it all.  I did do better the second time around...but I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the course was worse than it was the first time I took it.  If we're going purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range.  And I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA.  But I didn't do the work to deserve that kind of grade.  If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript.  But I feel a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind.  And I can honestly say my blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work.  I know you've had blind students do amazing in your class before.  I know how to be successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed to to get a B grade.  And, although it's really attractive to me and I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want.  Take care and thanks for the class, Kirt _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Thu Apr 21 00:55:20 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:55:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want to be. 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Jamie Principato To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >Hi, all. >I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a loved one goes >blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear people talk >about the reactions of friends and family and their community when they lost >their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list about >sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us differently, >or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in similar >situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind students >suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it is >becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of both >congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different opinions on >matters like this in other disability groups, and the question really got me >thinking. >I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >-Jamie >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From maurice.mines at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 01:49:02 2011 From: maurice.mines at gmail.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:49:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones In-Reply-To: References: <20110420151831.DFXW25530.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: the answer is yes and yes. Maurice ham call kd0iko. On Apr 20, 2011, at 6:38 PM, Justin Young wrote: > I have questions for the individuals with the new Verizon iphone. How > accessible is this phone? I got the Sansom Haven a few months ago. > Does this new phone speak everything? > > Thanks so much, > > Justin > > On 4/20/11, Karrie Kinstetter wrote: >> Hannah, The verizon iphone is fully accessible and a great phone to use! I >> have had mine for about 3 weeks or so now and love it! >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Hannah" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:19 AM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] verizon phones >> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> I'm just wondering what verizon phones are fully accessible? I know this >>> was a topic covered a few weeks back, but I'm thinking about switching to >>> verizon. I called them and asked, but they did not seem to know anything >>> about it and ended up telling me that they have "a hearing impaired >>> center" when I asked about what products they have that are either >>> compatible for screen reader software or have built in accessible screen >>> readers. Thanks in advance. >>> Cheers, Hannah >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/maurice.mines%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 02:11:20 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:11:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hombertu, I agree. I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. I've learned everything without sight. If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, so really I can say I've been blind all my life, and sight would just make it too difficult. Jorge On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: > First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: > 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want to be. > 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. > Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jamie Principato > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > >> Hi, all. > >> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a > loved one goes >> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear > people talk >> about the reactions of friends and family and their community > when they lost >> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list > about >> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us > differently, >> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. > >> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in > similar >> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind > students >> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it > is >> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of > both >> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different > opinions on >> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question > really got me >> thinking. > >> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! > >> -Jamie >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Apr 21 02:29:25 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:29:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: My braille Note works fine for me; I can check my next appointment anywhere with one key stroke and I think it will remind you of your next appointment if you need it to. -----Original Message----- From: Tina Hansen Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners I'm looking for a portable planner that I can use on the road, but also with Outlook and my PC. My options are: iPhone PakMate BrailleNote Icon/Braille Plus, or its successor A laptop or netbook Which of these tools have people used for calendar functions, and what do you like or dislike about them? Thanks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From trising at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 21 02:37:22 2011 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:37:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: <7454343B97BD46EDAE2E025DD1F245B6@user6389c7a3c9> I absolutely love my Pac Mate BX40. If I could only have one piece of technology, it would absolutely be this one. Terri Wilcox -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2043 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 02:40:08 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:40:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: Ashly: I also have a Braillenote but never figured out how to set it up. Can you please link me to some tutorial where I can learn that? It'd come in handy for me a lot. Thanks, Jorge On Apr 20, 2011, at 10:29 PM, wrote: > My braille Note works fine for me; I can check my next appointment anywhere with one key stroke and I think it will remind you of your next appointment if you need it to. > > -----Original Message----- From: Tina Hansen > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners > > I'm looking for a portable planner that I can use on the road, but also with Outlook and my PC. > > My options are: > iPhone > PakMate > BrailleNote > Icon/Braille Plus, or its successor > A laptop or netbook > > Which of these tools have people used for calendar functions, and what do you like or dislike about them? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 03:44:28 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:44:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jorge and Homberto, I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would spark some interesting conversations. Just my thoughts, Kirt On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hombertu, > I agree. > I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. > I've learned everything without sight. > If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. > Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, > so really I can say I've been blind all my life, > and sight would just make it too difficult. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: > >> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just >> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >> to be. >> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am >> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and >> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Jamie Principato >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >> >>> Hi, all. >> >>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >> loved one goes >>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >> people talk >>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >> when they lost >>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >> about >>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >> differently, >>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >> >>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >> similar >>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >> students >>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >> is >>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >> both >>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >> opinions on >>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >> really got me >>> thinking. >> >>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >> >>> -Jamie >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> 5369%40netzero.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 03:53:20 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:53:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear nabs list, So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. (message begins below) Ahoy Kirt: Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to take it. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Cheers [professor's name omitted] On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Hi Kurt, > > I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't > giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that > he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what > accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering cuz > I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. > > Thanks, > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment > > Dear nabs list, > So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a > logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the > class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the > homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough > in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I > found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's > giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I > sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you > think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know > some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially > this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of > compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to > make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my > blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this > letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I > deserve, but at least I tried. > ------------- > Dear [professor's name omitted], >  [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take > the final and I'm > getting a B in the class.  I apreciate the sentiment of what you're > doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what > I probably deserve.  It would certainly be more advantageous for me to > get a B in the class.  But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a > valuable learning experience, and here's why. >  In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for.  I still > chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework.  In retaking the > class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with > the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to > pretty much make my blindness a non-factor.  Or at least a very > minimal factor. >  I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, > and I didn't do it all.  I did do better the second time around...but > I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the > course was worse than it was the first time I took it.  If we're going > purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range.  And > I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA.  But I didn't do > the work to deserve that kind of grade. >  If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not > going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript.  But I feel > a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I > not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind.  And I can honestly say my > blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work.  I know you've > had blind students do amazing in your class before.  I know how to be > successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed > to to get a B grade.  And, although it's really attractive to me and > I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and > give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >  Take care and thanks for the class, > Kirt > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Apr 21 04:03:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 00:03:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CA9719BB1F643B698C3855F31F6E5F4@OwnerPC> Kirt, How good of you to ensure your grade is fair rather than out of sympathy or something because you're blind. I'd say if the final would raise your grade then take it. But if it would be lower, just go with the work you've already done. Also another idea to earn the grade is extra work or doing the homework you missed for some credit. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment Dear nabs list, So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. (message begins below) Ahoy Kirt: Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to take it. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Cheers [professor's name omitted] On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Hi Kurt, > > I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't > giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that > he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what > accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering cuz > I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. > > Thanks, > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment > > Dear nabs list, > So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a > logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the > class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the > homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough > in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I > found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's > giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I > sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you > think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know > some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially > this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of > compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to > make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my > blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this > letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I > deserve, but at least I tried. > ------------- > Dear [professor's name omitted], > [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take > the final and I'm > getting a B in the class. I apreciate the sentiment of what you're > doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what > I probably deserve. It would certainly be more advantageous for me to > get a B in the class. But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a > valuable learning experience, and here's why. > In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for. I still > chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework. In retaking the > class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with > the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to > pretty much make my blindness a non-factor. Or at least a very > minimal factor. > I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, > and I didn't do it all. I did do better the second time around...but > I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the > course was worse than it was the first time I took it. If we're going > purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range. And > I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA. But I didn't do > the work to deserve that kind of grade. > If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not > going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript. But I feel > a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I > not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind. And I can honestly say my > blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work. I know you've > had blind students do amazing in your class before. I know how to be > successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed > to to get a B grade. And, although it's really attractive to me and > I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and > give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. > Take care and thanks for the class, > Kirt > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 21 04:05:47 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:05:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: <61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Are you concerned about price? Are there any must-haves, such as a Braille display or Braille keyboard? What primary features are you looking for? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners > Ashly: > I also have a Braillenote but never figured out how to set it up. > > Can you please link me to some tutorial where I can learn that? > > It'd come in handy for me a lot. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > On Apr 20, 2011, at 10:29 PM, wrote: > >> My braille Note works fine for me; I can check my next appointment >> anywhere with one key stroke and I think it will remind you of your next >> appointment if you need it to. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Tina Hansen >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:32 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners >> >> I'm looking for a portable planner that I can use on the road, but also >> with Outlook and my PC. >> >> My options are: >> iPhone >> PakMate >> BrailleNote >> Icon/Braille Plus, or its successor >> A laptop or netbook >> >> Which of these tools have people used for calendar functions, and what do >> you like or dislike about them? Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 21 04:13:00 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:13:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a501cbffda$6762c230$36284690$@panix.com> I agree with you completely. I don't think we should begrudge those who choose to regain sight. I dare say this is patently impossible for most of us. Like the rest of you, I probably wouldn't choose it were I given the chance; I suspect the visual centers in my brain are already rewired to do other things so there's some question as to whether I could even perceive sight. On the other hand, I think it's over-the-top to insist, as some deaf/hard-of-hearing folks do, that those who regain their "lost" faculties are killing a culture. In fact, although I, too, believe that blindness is part of who I am, it isn't an *essential* part so I find it somewhat uncomfortable when I hear blind persons saying they wouldn't wish to regain sight because it would change who they are. Isn't that just another way of imputing to blindness (or sight, for that matter) more than it's just being a characteristic? Having said all this, it's true that any time a loved one changes in some way (even if it's for the better), those around him/her have to make adjustments and sometimes these adjustments are too hard for family bonds to stand. I've known more than one person who got divorced after attending a NFB Center. It wasn't that the Center caused the break-up; it's just that the relationship couldn't stand the strain of one person's having changed. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Jorge and Homberto, I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would spark some interesting conversations. Just my thoughts, Kirt On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hombertu, > I agree. > I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. > I've learned everything without sight. > If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. > Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, > so really I can say I've been blind all my life, > and sight would just make it too difficult. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: > >> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just >> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >> to be. >> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am >> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and >> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Jamie Principato >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >> >>> Hi, all. >> >>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >> loved one goes >>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >> people talk >>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >> when they lost >>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >> about >>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >> differently, >>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >> >>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >> similar >>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >> students >>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >> is >>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >> both >>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >> opinions on >>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >> really got me >>> thinking. >> >>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >> >>> -Jamie >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> 5369%40netzero.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae z%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 04:21:30 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:21:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: <9CA9719BB1F643B698C3855F31F6E5F4@OwnerPC> References: <9CA9719BB1F643B698C3855F31F6E5F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Kurt, I'm a little confused-did the final already happen for the rest of the students? If so, were you planning to take it later because of alternative testing procedures? Or, has your section's final not happened yet? You're definitely in a tough situation and I admire you for seeking the fair path rather than the easy one. I do have a couple of comments based on my past work as a teaching assistant. First, nowadays there is a lot of external pressure on professors to be lenient (sometimes overly so) in their grading. It does sound like this guy is generally very lenient in his grading for all students. Since he did say he offers grade adjustments to all students who repeat the class, it doesn't sound to me like blindness was a factor at all in the decision, unless, as I asked about above, you are taking the final later than everyone else because of your particular testing accommodations. This brings me to my second observation from teaching and that is that oftentimes professors don't like dealing with late tests. We tend to grade tests (and especially finals) all at once and so it takes some extra effort to grade the tests that come in later and add the new grades to the gradebook. I have TA'ed for professors who have waived students' late finals in order to avoid this extra hassle. So if you are needing to take the final exam late because of alternative testing procedures, it may well just be easier for your professor to not have to grade it. One way to avoid having to take tests late, if you don't already do this, is to request to take your tests on your laptop in the regular classroom. Your prof can email you the test, or give it to you on a thumb drive, and you can email it back. In my experience about 95% of professors are fine with this arrangement. This has the advantage that your test is received and scored at roughly the same time as everyone else's. Best of luck! Arielle On 4/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Kirt, > How good of you to ensure your grade is fair rather than out of sympathy or > something because you're blind. > I'd say if the final would raise your grade then take it. But if it would be > lower, just go with the work you've already done. > Also another idea to earn the grade is extra work or doing the homework you > missed for some credit. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment > > Dear nabs list, > So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but > I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count > the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were > taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a > little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. > (message begins below) > Ahoy Kirt: > > Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was > not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't > decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the > homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I > almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is > repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two > semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On > Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical > excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I > basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told > you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already > earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they > wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by > doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both > content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So > if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't > much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at > some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell > [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to > take it. > > Hope that clarifies things a bit. > > Cheers > [professor's name omitted] > > On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >> Hi Kurt, >> >> I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't >> giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that >> he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what >> accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering cuz >> I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. >> >> Thanks, >> Serena >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >> >> Dear nabs list, >> So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a >> logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the >> class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the >> homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough >> in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I >> found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's >> giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I >> sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you >> think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know >> some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially >> this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of >> compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to >> make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my >> blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this >> letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I >> deserve, but at least I tried. >> ------------- >> Dear [professor's name omitted], >> [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take >> the final and I'm >> getting a B in the class. I apreciate the sentiment of what you're >> doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what >> I probably deserve. It would certainly be more advantageous for me to >> get a B in the class. But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a >> valuable learning experience, and here's why. >> In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for. I still >> chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework. In retaking the >> class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with >> the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to >> pretty much make my blindness a non-factor. Or at least a very >> minimal factor. >> I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, >> and I didn't do it all. I did do better the second time around...but >> I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the >> course was worse than it was the first time I took it. If we're going >> purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range. And >> I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA. But I didn't do >> the work to deserve that kind of grade. >> If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not >> going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript. But I feel >> a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I >> not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind. And I can honestly say my >> blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work. I know you've >> had blind students do amazing in your class before. I know how to be >> successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed >> to to get a B grade. And, although it's really attractive to me and >> I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and >> give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >> Take care and thanks for the class, >> Kirt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 04:31:50 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:31:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: References: <9CA9719BB1F643B698C3855F31F6E5F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Arielle, Yes, I was going to take the final late because of alternative testing procedures. Since this class is pretty heavily mathematical, I use a brailler and take the test with a TA as a scribe...so I work out the problem in braille, then read the TA the problem. For this class, doing the test on a laptop just wouldn't be practical for me, although I'll definitely keep the suggestion in mind for future classes. So...yeah, the reason I would've taken the final late is blindness-related. In that regard, blindness was a factor, but I'm ok with the arrangement my professor worked out. Do any of you guys think I shouldn't be? Take care, Kirt On 4/20/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Kurt, > I'm a little confused-did the final already happen for the rest of the > students? If so, were you planning to take it later because of > alternative testing procedures? Or, has your section's final not > happened yet? > You're definitely in a tough situation and I admire you for seeking > the fair path rather than the easy one. I do have a couple of comments > based on my past work as a teaching assistant. First, nowadays there > is a lot of external pressure on professors to be lenient (sometimes > overly so) in their grading. It does sound like this guy is generally > very lenient in his grading for all students. Since he did say he > offers grade adjustments to all students who repeat the class, it > doesn't sound to me like blindness was a factor at all in the > decision, unless, as I asked about above, you are taking the final > later than everyone else because of your particular testing > accommodations. This brings me to my second observation from teaching > and that is that oftentimes professors don't like dealing with late > tests. We tend to grade tests (and especially finals) all at once and > so it takes some extra effort to grade the tests that come in later > and add the new grades to the gradebook. I have TA'ed for professors > who have waived students' late finals in order to avoid this extra > hassle. So if you are needing to take the final exam late because of > alternative testing procedures, it may well just be easier for your > professor to not have to grade it. > One way to avoid having to take tests late, if you don't already do > this, is to request to take your tests on your laptop in the regular > classroom. Your prof can email you the test, or give it to you on a > thumb drive, and you can email it back. In my experience about 95% of > professors are fine with this arrangement. This has the advantage that > your test is received and scored at roughly the same time as everyone > else's. > Best of luck! > Arielle > > On 4/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Kirt, >> How good of you to ensure your grade is fair rather than out of sympathy >> or >> something because you're blind. >> I'd say if the final would raise your grade then take it. But if it would >> be >> lower, just go with the work you've already done. >> Also another idea to earn the grade is extra work or doing the homework >> you >> missed for some credit. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:53 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >> >> Dear nabs list, >> So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but >> I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count >> the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were >> taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a >> little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. >> (message begins below) >> Ahoy Kirt: >> >> Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was >> not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't >> decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the >> homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I >> almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is >> repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two >> semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On >> Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical >> excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I >> basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told >> you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already >> earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they >> wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by >> doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both >> content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So >> if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't >> much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at >> some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell >> [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to >> take it. >> >> Hope that clarifies things a bit. >> >> Cheers >> [professor's name omitted] >> >> On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >>> Hi Kurt, >>> >>> I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't >>> giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that >>> he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what >>> accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering cuz >>> I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Serena >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Kirt Manwaring >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >>> >>> Dear nabs list, >>> So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a >>> logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the >>> class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the >>> homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough >>> in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I >>> found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's >>> giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I >>> sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you >>> think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know >>> some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially >>> this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of >>> compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to >>> make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my >>> blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this >>> letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I >>> deserve, but at least I tried. >>> ------------- >>> Dear [professor's name omitted], >>> [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take >>> the final and I'm >>> getting a B in the class. I apreciate the sentiment of what you're >>> doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what >>> I probably deserve. It would certainly be more advantageous for me to >>> get a B in the class. But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a >>> valuable learning experience, and here's why. >>> In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for. I still >>> chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework. In retaking the >>> class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with >>> the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to >>> pretty much make my blindness a non-factor. Or at least a very >>> minimal factor. >>> I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, >>> and I didn't do it all. I did do better the second time around...but >>> I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the >>> course was worse than it was the first time I took it. If we're going >>> purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range. And >>> I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA. But I didn't do >>> the work to deserve that kind of grade. >>> If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not >>> going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript. But I feel >>> a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I >>> not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind. And I can honestly say my >>> blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work. I know you've >>> had blind students do amazing in your class before. I know how to be >>> successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed >>> to to get a B grade. And, although it's really attractive to me and >>> I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and >>> give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >>> Take care and thanks for the class, >>> Kirt >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>> n.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 04:46:08 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:46:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <00a501cbffda$6762c230$36284690$@panix.com> References: <00a501cbffda$6762c230$36284690$@panix.com> Message-ID: Hi all, This is a very interesting topic. You may recall that a few years ago, I disseminated a survey about attitudes toward sight restoration that I made up for my biology/psychology honors thesis. In the survey, I asked respondents how interested they would be in taking a "magic pill" that would confer 20/20 vision instantly, with no risks or side effects. I also asked respondents how interested they would be in undergoing various experimental procedures such as retinal prostheses and gene therapy. The results of the survey were quite interesting. The majority of respondents (72%) said they would be interested in taking the "magic pill" but a substantial minority (18%) said they would not want to take the pill, even if it would give them perfect sight with no risks or side effects. (The rest were undecided). I also measured respondents' attitudes toward blindness and the degree to which they felt being blind was important to their identity. The people most likely to not want the magic pill were those who both identified strongly with blindness and who had very positive attitudes toward being blind. Not surprisingly, those who had been blind from birth were least interested. Finally, less than half the respondents said they would be interested in undergoing specific treatments, with the least invasive treatment (gene therapy) eliciting interest from about 45% of respondents. It is apparent that many of us think it would be cool to have sight, but not all of us are interested in it and certainly many of us are concerned about the imperfections of the medical technologies currently being developed. Personally, I think it would be kind of fun to be able to see (I liken it in my head to being able to time-travel, or having GPS or a really powerful computer) but I wouldn't want to undergo any kind of invasive procedure or anything that would put me out of commission for a while. Much of my hesitation comes from the fact that I have been fortunate not to have ever had major surgery or been admitted to the hospital. I do have a bit of medical phobia and the thought of having any kind of non-essential surgery kind of freaks me out, but I also feel like going through such an intense procedure would compromise the health and productivity that I enjoy, at least temporarily. And, as others have mentioned, I am not optimistic that I would actually be able to read, drive, and enjoy the other functional perks of sight without a lot of practice and adjustment. Essentially, I would have to undergo independence training (learning to read print, travel using vision, drive, coordinate colors, etc.) all over again. Arielle On 4/20/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > I agree with you completely. I don't think we should begrudge those who > choose to regain sight. I dare say this is patently impossible for most of > us. Like the rest of you, I probably wouldn't choose it were I given the > chance; I suspect the visual centers in my brain are already rewired to do > other things so there's some question as to whether I could even perceive > sight. > > On the other hand, I think it's over-the-top to insist, as some > deaf/hard-of-hearing folks do, that those who regain their "lost" faculties > are killing a culture. In fact, although I, too, believe that blindness is > part of who I am, it isn't an *essential* part so I find it somewhat > uncomfortable when I hear blind persons saying they wouldn't wish to regain > sight because it would change who they are. Isn't that just another way of > imputing to blindness (or sight, for that matter) more than it's just being > a characteristic? > > Having said all this, it's true that any time a loved one changes in some > way (even if it's for the better), those around him/her have to make > adjustments and sometimes these adjustments are too hard for family bonds to > stand. I've known more than one person who got divorced after attending a > NFB Center. It wasn't that the Center caused the break-up; it's just that > the relationship couldn't stand the strain of one person's having changed. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > > Jorge and Homberto, > I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I > wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes > would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of > relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for > something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have > to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive > sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. > And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would > spark some interesting conversations. > Just my thoughts, > Kirt > > On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hombertu, >> I agree. >> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >> I've learned everything without sight. >> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >> and sight would just make it too difficult. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >> >>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; > just >>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>> to be. >>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am >>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary > and >>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Jamie Principato >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>> >>>> Hi, all. >>> >>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>> loved one goes >>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>> people talk >>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>> when they lost >>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>> about >>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>> differently, >>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>> >>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>> similar >>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>> students >>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>> is >>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>> both >>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>> opinions on >>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>> really got me >>>> thinking. >>> >>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>> >>>> -Jamie >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 04:49:24 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:49:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: References: <9CA9719BB1F643B698C3855F31F6E5F4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Thanks for clarifying. I understand now why your testing arrangements make the most sense for this particular course. It does sound like skipping the final is a more convenient arrangement for both you and your professor, and I don't see a problem with accepting it. You are getting a break in having your current (pre-final) grade bumped up from a C to a B, but it sounds like this is because this is how your prof handles repeat students, not because of your blindness. Arielle On 4/20/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Arielle, > Yes, I was going to take the final late because of alternative > testing procedures. Since this class is pretty heavily mathematical, > I use a brailler and take the test with a TA as a scribe...so I work > out the problem in braille, then read the TA the problem. For this > class, doing the test on a laptop just wouldn't be practical for me, > although I'll definitely keep the suggestion in mind for future > classes. > So...yeah, the reason I would've taken the final late is > blindness-related. In that regard, blindness was a factor, but I'm ok > with the arrangement my professor worked out. Do any of you guys > think I shouldn't be? > Take care, > Kirt > > On 4/20/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Kurt, >> I'm a little confused-did the final already happen for the rest of the >> students? If so, were you planning to take it later because of >> alternative testing procedures? Or, has your section's final not >> happened yet? >> You're definitely in a tough situation and I admire you for seeking >> the fair path rather than the easy one. I do have a couple of comments >> based on my past work as a teaching assistant. First, nowadays there >> is a lot of external pressure on professors to be lenient (sometimes >> overly so) in their grading. It does sound like this guy is generally >> very lenient in his grading for all students. Since he did say he >> offers grade adjustments to all students who repeat the class, it >> doesn't sound to me like blindness was a factor at all in the >> decision, unless, as I asked about above, you are taking the final >> later than everyone else because of your particular testing >> accommodations. This brings me to my second observation from teaching >> and that is that oftentimes professors don't like dealing with late >> tests. We tend to grade tests (and especially finals) all at once and >> so it takes some extra effort to grade the tests that come in later >> and add the new grades to the gradebook. I have TA'ed for professors >> who have waived students' late finals in order to avoid this extra >> hassle. So if you are needing to take the final exam late because of >> alternative testing procedures, it may well just be easier for your >> professor to not have to grade it. >> One way to avoid having to take tests late, if you don't already do >> this, is to request to take your tests on your laptop in the regular >> classroom. Your prof can email you the test, or give it to you on a >> thumb drive, and you can email it back. In my experience about 95% of >> professors are fine with this arrangement. This has the advantage that >> your test is received and scored at roughly the same time as everyone >> else's. >> Best of luck! >> Arielle >> >> On 4/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> How good of you to ensure your grade is fair rather than out of sympathy >>> or >>> something because you're blind. >>> I'd say if the final would raise your grade then take it. But if it would >>> be >>> lower, just go with the work you've already done. >>> Also another idea to earn the grade is extra work or doing the homework >>> you >>> missed for some credit. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:53 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >>> >>> Dear nabs list, >>> So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but >>> I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count >>> the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were >>> taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a >>> little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. >>> (message begins below) >>> Ahoy Kirt: >>> >>> Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was >>> not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't >>> decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the >>> homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I >>> almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is >>> repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two >>> semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On >>> Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical >>> excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I >>> basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told >>> you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already >>> earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they >>> wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by >>> doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both >>> content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So >>> if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't >>> much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at >>> some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell >>> [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to >>> take it. >>> >>> Hope that clarifies things a bit. >>> >>> Cheers >>> [professor's name omitted] >>> >>> On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >>>> Hi Kurt, >>>> >>>> I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't >>>> giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that >>>> he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what >>>> accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering >>>> cuz >>>> I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Kirt Manwaring >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >>>> >>>> Dear nabs list, >>>> So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a >>>> logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the >>>> class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the >>>> homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough >>>> in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I >>>> found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's >>>> giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I >>>> sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you >>>> think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know >>>> some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially >>>> this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of >>>> compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to >>>> make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my >>>> blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this >>>> letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I >>>> deserve, but at least I tried. >>>> ------------- >>>> Dear [professor's name omitted], >>>> [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take >>>> the final and I'm >>>> getting a B in the class. I apreciate the sentiment of what you're >>>> doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what >>>> I probably deserve. It would certainly be more advantageous for me to >>>> get a B in the class. But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a >>>> valuable learning experience, and here's why. >>>> In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for. I still >>>> chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework. In retaking the >>>> class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with >>>> the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to >>>> pretty much make my blindness a non-factor. Or at least a very >>>> minimal factor. >>>> I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, >>>> and I didn't do it all. I did do better the second time around...but >>>> I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the >>>> course was worse than it was the first time I took it. If we're going >>>> purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range. And >>>> I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA. But I didn't do >>>> the work to deserve that kind of grade. >>>> If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not >>>> going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript. But I feel >>>> a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I >>>> not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind. And I can honestly say my >>>> blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work. I know you've >>>> had blind students do amazing in your class before. I know how to be >>>> successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed >>>> to to get a B grade. And, although it's really attractive to me and >>>> I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and >>>> give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >>>> Take care and thanks for the class, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>> n.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From th404 at comcast.net Thu Apr 21 05:14:55 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:14:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> <61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille display. Thanks. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 15:19:08 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 11:19:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> <61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Dear Tina, I use a program called DaybyDay Professional on my Netbook. It is a fully funcional planning calendar and address book created by a blind programmer specifically for JAWS (though it works well with WindowEyes as well, and even kinda works with NVDA). I don't know where I'd be without my DaybyDay! You can check it out at www.blindsoftware.com, and even try a free trial version. The creater also has audio tutorials for the program that are excellent for learning how to use the calendar, though it's not hard to learn on your own either. ~Jewel On 4/21/11, Tina Hansen wrote: > I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that > comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille > display. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 21 17:54:05 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:54:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31><61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <26C1B37D461749699B6A4CEB8F5DD891@stanford.edu> It's really going to come down to functionality and price. Something like a PacMate or BrailleNote is more expensive and has less functionality. However, they also have less clutter than your basic computer. The BrailleNote has a closed system, which means that the only programs that will run on it are the ones made by HumanWare, so no viruses or other junk. The BrailleNote is also smaller and lighter than most laptops. The BrailleNote comes with either style of keyboard and your choice of no Braille display, an 18 cell display, or a 32 cell display. The one with no display (which is actually called a VoiceNote) costs about $200. The touch screen is not that hard to learn. The iPhone costs a lot less than the electronic notetakers. You can also buy bluetooth keyboards and Braille displays to use with the iPhone. If you get a Mac laptop, your good to go out of the box because of VoiceOver. However, if you purchase a Windows laptop, you are going to have to get a screen reader to go with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Hansen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners >I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that >comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille >display. Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Apr 21 17:56:11 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:56:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> <61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Tina, I use the Planner function on my Braille Note, and it has worked very well for me. I think the main thing you need to consider is the type of techonology you prefer. Most of the technology featuring accessible planners have multiple functions, so you would get the most out of your investment if you make use of many of the features. For example, I use my Braille Note to take notes, read books, and edit some documents in addition to keep track of my appointments. In short, I would suggest going with a form of portable technology you are most comfortable with, whether it is the iphone, a braille notetaker, or a laptop/netbook, as I'm pretty sure all of them support accessible, user-friendly planner software. In addition. these devices also vary widely in price, so that may be something you want to check out if it is a concern. Jorge, if you go to the options menu on your Braille Note and press u for User Guide, you will find a wealth of information on how to set up various functions. Hope this helps! Katie On 4/21/11, Jewel wrote: > Dear Tina, > I use a program called DaybyDay Professional on my Netbook. It is a > fully funcional planning calendar and address book created by a blind > programmer specifically for JAWS (though it works well with WindowEyes > as well, and even kinda works with NVDA). I don't know where I'd be > without my DaybyDay! You can check it out at www.blindsoftware.com, > and even try a free trial version. The creater also has audio > tutorials for the program that are excellent for learning how to use > the calendar, though it's not hard to learn on your own either. > > ~Jewel > > On 4/21/11, Tina Hansen wrote: >> I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that >> comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille >> display. Thanks. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 21 18:36:06 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 11:36:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Instructions Re: Need Advice: Accessible Planners References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31><61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <68FEC5AFC4A34FC38BD61D6B7C280276@stanford.edu> If you don't like the way that access the user guide in the way displays and interacts with the text, you can also find the manual folder on the keysoft disk. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners > Tina, I use the Planner function on my Braille Note, and it has worked > very well for me. I think the main thing you need to consider is the > type of techonology you prefer. Most of the technology featuring > accessible planners have multiple functions, so you would get the most > out of your investment if you make use of many of the features. For > example, I use my Braille Note to take notes, read books, and edit > some documents in addition to keep track of my appointments. In short, > I would suggest going with a form of portable technology you are most > comfortable with, whether it is the iphone, a braille notetaker, or a > laptop/netbook, as I'm pretty sure all of them support accessible, > user-friendly planner software. In addition. these devices also vary > widely in price, so that may be something you want to check out if it > is a concern. > Jorge, if you go to the options menu on your Braille Note and press u > for User Guide, you will find a wealth of information on how to set up > various functions. > Hope this helps! > Katie > > > On 4/21/11, Jewel wrote: >> Dear Tina, >> I use a program called DaybyDay Professional on my Netbook. It is a >> fully funcional planning calendar and address book created by a blind >> programmer specifically for JAWS (though it works well with WindowEyes >> as well, and even kinda works with NVDA). I don't know where I'd be >> without my DaybyDay! You can check it out at www.blindsoftware.com, >> and even try a free trial version. The creater also has audio >> tutorials for the program that are excellent for learning how to use >> the calendar, though it's not hard to learn on your own either. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 4/21/11, Tina Hansen wrote: >>> I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all >>> that >>> comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a >>> Braille >>> display. Thanks. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 01:50:26 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:50:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS April Bulletin! Message-ID: Hi all, Please find the NABS bulletin pasted below and the minutes from our last board meeting attached. Enjoy! Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students National Association of Blind Students >From the Desk of the President April 21, 2011 In This Bulletin: 1. Get Ready for National Convention! 2. Student Division Spring Seminar Reports 3. Feedback Needed About Technology Accessibility Get Ready for Convention! This year the convention of the National Federation of the Blind will be held in Orlando, Florida! Convention seminars begin on Sunday, July 3, and the convention will adjourn after the banquet on Friday, July 8. During the convention we will have several activities for students including a weeklong track of events for teens, a student hospitality social on Sunday evening, and our annual NABS seminar and business meeting on Monday, July 4. Rooms at the convention hotel, the Rosen Shingle Creek resort, are sold out at this time. However, there are plenty of people who have rooms and are looking for roommates to share with. If you would like to find other people going from your state, or would like to request financial assistance with travel expenses, contact your affiliate or chapter president. You can also contact me directly at Nabs.president at gmail.com If you need help finding roommates, whether you have a room reserved already or not. Finally, pre-registration is available for the convention. Pre-register by going to www.nfb.org/registration before May 31, and save up to $15 on your total convention cost. See you in Orlando! Student Division Spring Seminar Reports: April has been an active month for our state student divisions. Below please find reports from Idaho, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas about their recent seminars. Congratulations to all the state divisions on their hard work. If you would like to find out how to join a student division in your state, go to http://www.nabslink.org/state-contacts/index.php >From Idaho: The Idaho Association of Blind Students had our annual meeting at the Idaho state convention last weekend. We only have a few members, but we are dedicated to raising awareness of our organization. Mikaela Stevens was elected president, with Lora Ireland as vice president and Makenzie Stevens as secretary/treasurer. We discussed the importance of a student division and informed new members of our affiliation with NABS. If anyone is aware of any blind students in the state of Idaho, please connect them with us. Thank you! >From Arizona: Arizona Blind Students Bat Their Spring Seminar Out of the Park! Our April 9 spring seminar in Phoenix was an enjoyable, successful event. Blind college and high-school students discussed their experiences inside and outside the classroom. We were inspired by positive blind role models who discussed employment. There was an awesome demonstration of Apple technology and we learned about how to make accessibility evangelism work to open the world of information technology to us. Young blind leaders talked about Youth Slam and their experiences attending a leadership camp in Baltimore. Finally, we found out about a scholarship opportunity available from the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona. We welcomed three new people to the Arizona Association of Blind Students and are looking forward to their membership and active participation. We hope you can join us for our next event. For more information, please contact Kristen Johnson, First Vice President, by phone at 720-299-8039 or email kj4483 at gmail.com, or Darrell Shandrow, Secretary, by phone at 480-389-5627 or email darrell.shandrow at gmail.com. The Arizona Association of Blind Students Board >From Colorado: The colorado asociation of blind students created a state plan that would allow us to put on various seminars around the state. One of our goals for this plan is to build partnerships in the towns where we would put on seminars. In addition to building partnerships with other entities, and strengthening both our devision and state affilliate. Each board member(s) runs the seminar. We put on our first seminar on the University of Colorado boulder campus. This seminar took place in march. The seminar covered working with the DSS office, attending an nfb training center, using technology, Scholarships, the Global explorers program and Campus life. We began to build a partnership with the ACB rep in boulder, establishing a partnership with the DSS, and with the NFB training center. The seminar consisted of presentations and breakout sessions, where we could use tables and particepants were able to spend time with the presenters. After doing some revising and adding to the agenda, our second seminar took place at the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley. The format was the same just with a few additions. We had a brailler, notepads, and pens and pencils for the particepants to provide us with suggestions. I believe that we also learned how to adapt our surroundings. This seminar was based more on presentations and open discussions. There wasn't any way to have a breakout session. There wasn't any way to get a representative from the DSS office or the university. However, we had two high school students, two teachers of blind students, and a parent particepate in the seminar. The suggestion box idea is something that we will continue to use. This is a worthy tool that really helps us out. One of our suggestions was entitled excellent job. It was also very positive for us as a board. Our upcoming seminar will be held on April 30th. from 11:00AM till 4:00Pm at the Colorado Center for the blind. Once again, we have had to adapt to unforeseen diffeculties. The diffeculty this time is the fact that we were unable to have the seminar on a college campus because of financial reasons. During this seminar, we will highlight technology, and career exploration. Blessings! Sincerely, Melissa Green, President, Colorado Association of Blind Students >From Georgia: On Saturday April 9 2011, Twenty-five students and professionals from the state of Georgia gather at our third annual student convention! This year Sean Whalen served as our NABS representative, and helped our students get an understanding of how NABS is a part of the National Federation of the Blind. In Addition, our students heard presentations on how to get books for college, how to use vocational rehab to further their education, how to advocate for themselves when vocational rehab was not working for them, and even got an inside scoop on how the Georgia affiliate helps the student division. Aside from all the learning in the morning, the students heard from a fellow GABS member, Ben Schuler. Ben shared his experiences of growing up as a blind person, and how the Louisiana Center helped him gain confidence and become an accomplished young man. After all the information was distributed and consumed, we let loose with some Salsa dancing lesson taught by our very own NFBGA 1st Vice President Ms. JoAnn Collins. Our students went home having learned and socialized and excited for other NFB events in the future. >From Texas: Hello NABS, On the weekend of April 8th through the 10th, The Texas Association of Blind Students, in partnership with the Texas Parents of Blind Children, held a joint spring conference in Dallas Texas, sponsored by NFB Newsline for Texas. The conference drew around 50 people, and featured both joint and separate presentations covering just about everything from products and services for the blind, independence training programs for all ages, and calls for action involving local legislative issues affecting blind Texans. Highlights from the conference included our annual TABS Idol music competition, a game educating our attendees on NFB trivia and fun facts , a beautiful keynote speech delivered by our affiliate president, Kimberly Flores, and a banquet to boot. This was the first such event for both divisions, and I am proud to report that it was an overwelming success, and all signs point to more where that came from next year. Finally, I am excited to announce that all the good stuff will be available as episode 2 in our newly relaunched TABS podcast series, so stay tuned for that when the time comes. Now we turn our attention to National Convention, so this is where my report must end. Thank you NABS for the chance to keep you up to date on our happenings. See you all this summer in Florida! -- Respectfully, Juan Carlos Munoz President Texas Association of Blind Students www.nfb-texas.org/tabs.html Feedback Needed About Technology Accessibility: The NFB is seeking information about accessibility barriers in the digital technology used by all students, teachers, and administrators in K-12 schools, universities, and colleges in the United States. We encourage students, teachers, administrators and parents of blind students to complete the following survey so that the NFB can learn more about educational technology that is either helping or hindering the learning process for blind students. http://www.nfb.org/technologyform Thanks, Sincerely, Clara Van Gerven Access Technology Content Specialist National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 410-659-9314 x-2410 cvangerven at nfb.org The Access Technology Blog Learn something new about technology with the NFB's Access Technology Tips -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Minutes 3-27.doc Type: application/msword Size: 33015 bytes Desc: not available URL: From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 22 02:08:13 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:08:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> <61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <004f01cc0092$231a4090$694ec1b0$@panix.com> Tina: It might be fun to be adventurous and try the iPhone. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tina Hansen Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille display. Thanks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 22 02:12:01 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:12:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005001cc0092$ab81fdb0$0285f910$@panix.com> Jamie: The late Ray McGeorge regained a great deal of sight back for quite a few years after he had been blind for many years during which he was a member of NFB. He stayed in the organization and was devoted to it after he regained most of his sight; I don't think there were any weird feelings toward him because of his regained sight; everyone still loved him. He lost his sight again some time in the 1990's and although it was a bit of an adjustment for him, he enjoyed life right up to last year when he died. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Principato Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:56 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Hi, all. I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a loved one goes blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear people talk about the reactions of friends and family and their community when they lost their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list about sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us differently, or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in similar situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind students suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it is becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of both congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different opinions on matters like this in other disability groups, and the question really got me thinking. I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! -Jamie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 02:27:11 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:27:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: <004f01cc0092$231a4090$694ec1b0$@panix.com> References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> <61ACBDC213C24D12B6357C57D667D3B8@stanford.edu> <004f01cc0092$231a4090$694ec1b0$@panix.com> Message-ID: I agree. Some people picture the iPhone as this really complex thing, but it's really the easiest phone to use. No commands to remember, no weird things. Just tapping and doubletapping a screen... IC On Apr 21, 2011, at 10:08 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > Tina: > > It might be fun to be adventurous and try the iPhone. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Tina Hansen > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners > > I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that > comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille > display. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Fri Apr 22 02:34:57 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:34:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners Message-ID: But what about for those who just don't have the desire to learn the touch-screen interface? Some people just can't seem to find it easy to use at first, and is quite getting used to it. one of my teachers of the blind had me try out an iPhone but it seems like it's kind of a tedious process remembering where to tap and double tap and things like that. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:27:11 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners >I agree. Some people picture the iPhone as this really complex thing, but it's really the easiest phone to use. No commands to remember, no weird things. Just tapping and doubletapping a screen... >IC >On Apr 21, 2011, at 10:08 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: >> Tina: >> It might be fun to be adventurous and try the iPhone. >> Mike >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Tina Hansen >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:15 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners >> I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that >> comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille >> display. Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam bra%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 22 02:48:14 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:48:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006001cc0097$ba52c4f0$2ef84ed0$@panix.com> Of course it depends upon motivation. But in using the touch-screen as in everything else, practice makes perfect. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners But what about for those who just don't have the desire to learn the touch-screen interface? Some people just can't seem to find it easy to use at first, and is quite getting used to it. one of my teachers of the blind had me try out an iPhone but it seems like it's kind of a tedious process remembering where to tap and double tap and things like that. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:27:11 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners >I agree. Some people picture the iPhone as this really complex thing, but it's really the easiest phone to use. No commands to remember, no weird things. Just tapping and doubletapping a screen... >IC >On Apr 21, 2011, at 10:08 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: >> Tina: >> It might be fun to be adventurous and try the iPhone. >> Mike >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Tina Hansen >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:15 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners >> I do think I'd want a Braille or regular keyboard, since I'm not all that >> comfortable with the touch screens. I could probably do without a Braille >> display. Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam bra%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 15:29:23 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:29:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Message-ID: Hi NABsters: As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd have to do on my own), and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. Here's my issue though: My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still with the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. What can I do? I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing anything either. What can I do? I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. Thanks for any advice. Jorge From z.dreicer at emissives.com Fri Apr 22 15:40:30 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:40:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Message-ID: My CFB pays for things if I give them enough reason for the need. Parents is spelled with one r, not two. Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez Message-ID: <19DEFF9122D644D798A74F28CE1CB344@Espy> Can you contact your local lions club for assistance? Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:29 AM Subject: [nabs-l] technology question > Hi NABsters: > As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device > lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan > anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd > have to do on my own), > and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. > Here's my issue though: > My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still > with the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, > but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. > What can I do? > > I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know > they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing > anything either. > What can I do? > I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 22 19:16:52 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:16:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a number of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's certainly true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, and that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other words, the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and more reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone regardless of characteristics. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Jorge and Homberto, > I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I > wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes > would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of > relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for > something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have > to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive > sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. > And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would > spark some interesting conversations. > Just my thoughts, > Kirt > On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hombertu, >> I agree. >> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >> I've learned everything without sight. >> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >> and sight would just make it too difficult. >> Jorge >> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just >>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>> to be. >>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am >>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and >>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Jamie Principato >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>> Hi, all. >>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>> loved one goes >>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>> people talk >>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>> when they lost >>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>> about >>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>> differently, >>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>> similar >>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>> students >>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>> is >>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>> both >>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>> opinions on >>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>> really got me >>>> thinking. >>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>> -Jamie >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 22 19:22:05 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:22:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment Message-ID: <20110422192205.14310.9630@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> I would take the final for two reasons. First, it would raise your grade and you would feel as though you've earned the raise regardless of what anyone says. Second, testing accommodations is never an excuse not to take a test regardless of how late it is, nor is the lateness in that case an excuse for your prof not to grade it. Just my two cents. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Arielle, > Yes, I was going to take the final late because of alternative > testing procedures. Since this class is pretty heavily mathematical, > I use a brailler and take the test with a TA as a scribe...so I work > out the problem in braille, then read the TA the problem. For this > class, doing the test on a laptop just wouldn't be practical for me, > although I'll definitely keep the suggestion in mind for future > classes. > So...yeah, the reason I would've taken the final late is > blindness-related. In that regard, blindness was a factor, but I'm ok > with the arrangement my professor worked out. Do any of you guys > think I shouldn't be? > Take care, > Kirt > On 4/20/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Kurt, >> I'm a little confused-did the final already happen for the rest of the >> students? If so, were you planning to take it later because of >> alternative testing procedures? Or, has your section's final not >> happened yet? >> You're definitely in a tough situation and I admire you for seeking >> the fair path rather than the easy one. I do have a couple of comments >> based on my past work as a teaching assistant. First, nowadays there >> is a lot of external pressure on professors to be lenient (sometimes >> overly so) in their grading. It does sound like this guy is generally >> very lenient in his grading for all students. Since he did say he >> offers grade adjustments to all students who repeat the class, it >> doesn't sound to me like blindness was a factor at all in the >> decision, unless, as I asked about above, you are taking the final >> later than everyone else because of your particular testing >> accommodations. This brings me to my second observation from teaching >> and that is that oftentimes professors don't like dealing with late >> tests. We tend to grade tests (and especially finals) all at once and >> so it takes some extra effort to grade the tests that come in later >> and add the new grades to the gradebook. I have TA'ed for professors >> who have waived students' late finals in order to avoid this extra >> hassle. So if you are needing to take the final exam late because of >> alternative testing procedures, it may well just be easier for your >> professor to not have to grade it. >> One way to avoid having to take tests late, if you don't already do >> this, is to request to take your tests on your laptop in the regular >> classroom. Your prof can email you the test, or give it to you on a >> thumb drive, and you can email it back. In my experience about 95% of >> professors are fine with this arrangement. This has the advantage that >> your test is received and scored at roughly the same time as everyone >> else's. >> Best of luck! >> Arielle >> On 4/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> How good of you to ensure your grade is fair rather than out of sympathy >>> or >>> something because you're blind. >>> I'd say if the final would raise your grade then take it. But if it would >>> be >>> lower, just go with the work you've already done. >>> Also another idea to earn the grade is extra work or doing the homework >>> you >>> missed for some credit. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:53 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >>> Dear nabs list, >>> So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but >>> I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count >>> the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were >>> taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a >>> little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. >>> (message begins below) >>> Ahoy Kirt: >>> Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was >>> not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't >>> decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the >>> homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I >>> almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is >>> repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two >>> semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On >>> Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical >>> excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I >>> basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told >>> you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already >>> earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they >>> wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by >>> doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both >>> content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So >>> if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't >>> much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at >>> some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell >>> [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to >>> take it. >>> Hope that clarifies things a bit. >>> Cheers >>> [professor's name omitted] >>> On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >>>> Hi Kurt, >>>> I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. isn't >>>> giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that >>>> he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what >>>> accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering cuz >>>> I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Serena >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Kirt Manwaring >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment >>>> Dear nabs list, >>>> So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a >>>> logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the >>>> class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the >>>> homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough >>>> in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I >>>> found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's >>>> giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I >>>> sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you >>>> think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know >>>> some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially >>>> this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of >>>> compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to >>>> make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my >>>> blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this >>>> letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I >>>> deserve, but at least I tried. >>>> ------------- >>>> Dear [professor's name omitted], >>>> [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take >>>> the final and I'm >>>> getting a B in the class. I apreciate the sentiment of what you're >>>> doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what >>>> I probably deserve. It would certainly be more advantageous for me to >>>> get a B in the class. But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a >>>> valuable learning experience, and here's why. >>>> In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for. I still >>>> chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework. In retaking the >>>> class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with >>>> the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to >>>> pretty much make my blindness a non-factor. Or at least a very >>>> minimal factor. >>>> I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, >>>> and I didn't do it all. I did do better the second time around...but >>>> I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the >>>> course was worse than it was the first time I took it. If we're going >>>> purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range. And >>>> I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA. But I didn't do >>>> the work to deserve that kind of grade. >>>> If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not >>>> going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript. But I feel >>>> a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I >>>> not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind. And I can honestly say my >>>> blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work. I know you've >>>> had blind students do amazing in your class before. I know how to be >>>> successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed >>>> to to get a B grade. And, although it's really attractive to me and >>>> I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and >>>> give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >>>> Take care and thanks for the class, >>>> Kirt >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>> n.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 19:23:59 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:23:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is reasonable to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for a sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: > For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a number > of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the > career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's certainly > true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, and > that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. > > What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility > that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather > than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other words, > the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and more > reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone > regardless of characteristics. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: > > Jorge and Homberto, >> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >> spark some interesting conversations. >> Just my thoughts, >> Kirt >> > > On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Hombertu, >>> I agree. >>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>> I've learned everything without sight. >>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>> >> > Jorge >>> >> > > On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>> >> > First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>> just >>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>>> to be. >>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I >>>> am >>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary >>>> and >>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>> >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>>> >>>> > Hi, all. >>>>> >>>> > I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>> >>>> loved one goes >>>> >>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>> >>>> people talk >>>> >>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>> >>>> when they lost >>>> >>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>> >>>> about >>>> >>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>> >>>> differently, >>>> >>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>>> >>>> > My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>> >>>> similar >>>> >>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>> >>>> students >>>> >>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>> >>>> is >>>> >>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>> >>>> both >>>> >>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>> >>>> opinions on >>>> >>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>> >>>> really got me >>>> >>>>> thinking. >>>>> >>>> > I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>>> >>>> > -Jamie >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>> >>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 19:27:43 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:27:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <0F8E60B6-E84B-43BD-9386-D586CCFFC40F@gmail.com> Jedi: agree on both points. I learned everything without sight, and if I had the chance to regain it I simply wouldn't just because I'd have to start all over again. As far as your fear, I think its valid. Has anyone seen the movie GATICA? Basically, in the movie, Science has reached the level where they're able to create babies and therefore there are no disabilities of any sort, and those with disabilites who are born the "natrual" way, are second class because the ones who are created are seen to be flawless. I'm not saying that's where we're heading, I certainly hope not, but your thoughts are based on good judgement and, if Science ever came up with such a thing I think most people would take to it. I say, let each his own, as long as people don't start forcing this. I'm not afraid of any science, I'm afraid of it being imposed on us. Jorge On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: > For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a number of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's certainly true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, and that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. > > What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other words, the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and more reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone regardless of characteristics. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> Jorge and Homberto, >> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >> spark some interesting conversations. >> Just my thoughts, >> Kirt > >> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Hombertu, >>> I agree. >>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>> I've learned everything without sight. >>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>> and sight would just make it too difficult. > >>> Jorge > > >>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: > >>>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just >>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>>> to be. >>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am >>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and >>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > >>>>> Hi, all. > >>>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>> loved one goes >>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>> people talk >>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>> when they lost >>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>> about >>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>> differently, >>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. > >>>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>> similar >>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>> students >>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>> is >>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>> both >>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>> opinions on >>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>> really got me >>>>> thinking. > >>>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! > >>>>> -Jamie >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>> 5369%40netzero.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 19:31:07 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:31:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: References: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <996AD157-ED3A-41B4-8926-12FC84114B54@gmail.com> That's a great psychological question. I don't think, (please correct me if I'm wrong), that human psychology would allow for such a move. In other words, it would allow for a blind person to have the chance to be sighted--but it wouldn't even be thought about a sighted person thinking and wanting to be blind. Is my understanding of psychology correct? Or is there any loophole in which a state of mind could be created where a sighted person would wanna be blind? Jorge On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:23 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is reasonable > to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario > like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for a > sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever > reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a number >> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's certainly >> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, and >> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >> >> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility >> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather >> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other words, >> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and more >> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone >> regardless of characteristics. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> >> Original message: >> >> Jorge and Homberto, >>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>> spark some interesting conversations. >>> Just my thoughts, >>> Kirt >>> >> >> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> >>>> Hombertu, >>>> I agree. >>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>>> >>> >> Jorge >>>> >>> >> >> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>>> >>> >> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>> just >>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>>>> to be. >>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I >>>>> am >>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary >>>>> and >>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>>> >>>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>>>> >>>>> >> Hi, all. >>>>>> >>>>> >> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>>> >>>>> loved one goes >>>>> >>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>> >>>>> people talk >>>>> >>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>> >>>>> when they lost >>>>> >>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>> >>>>> about >>>>> >>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>> >>>>> differently, >>>>> >>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>>>> >>>>> >> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>>> >>>>> similar >>>>> >>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>> >>>>> students >>>>> >>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>>> >>>>> is >>>>> >>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>> >>>>> both >>>>> >>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>> >>>>> opinions on >>>>> >>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>> >>>>> really got me >>>>> >>>>>> thinking. >>>>>> >>>>> >> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>>>> >>>>> >> -Jamie >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>> >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 19:37:33 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 13:37:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment In-Reply-To: <20110422192205.14310.9630@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110422192205.14310.9630@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: Jedi, It's too late to take it in any case- I decided to accept his offer for two reasons. 1. The final would've lowered my grade, because I didn't know the material enough for it to stay at a B. This was pretty much my professor showing me mercy and cutting me a break which, although I don't deserve, I'll accept because I'm reasonably certain he would've given me if I had any other legitimate reason for taking the final late excluding blindness. (medical/family emergency, etc) 2. The accommodations were definitely a legitimate reason to take the final late. I can say for certain I needed the accomodations I requested, namely a human reader and the use of a braille writer. And the reader wasn't available during the regularly scheduled time everyone else took the final. So since I was taking the final late for a legitimate reason, and my professor offered others taking the final late the same chance he offered me to skip the final, I don't feel like I'm cheating the system. My professor's definitely cutting me a lot of slack here, but I don't feel like I'm being dishonest by taking it, and I certainly don't feel like he's doing this because I'm blind. But you make a very good point, and I definitely understand where you're coming from on this one. Regards, Kirt On 4/22/11, Jedi wrote: > I would take the final for two reasons. First, it would raise your > grade and you would feel as though you've earned the raise regardless > of what anyone says. Second, testing accommodations is never an excuse > not to take a test regardless of how late it is, nor is the lateness in > that case an excuse for your prof not to grade it. Just my two cents. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Arielle, >> Yes, I was going to take the final late because of alternative >> testing procedures. Since this class is pretty heavily mathematical, >> I use a brailler and take the test with a TA as a scribe...so I work >> out the problem in braille, then read the TA the problem. For this >> class, doing the test on a laptop just wouldn't be practical for me, >> although I'll definitely keep the suggestion in mind for future >> classes. >> So...yeah, the reason I would've taken the final late is >> blindness-related. In that regard, blindness was a factor, but I'm ok >> with the arrangement my professor worked out. Do any of you guys >> think I shouldn't be? >> Take care, >> Kirt > >> On 4/20/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Kurt, >>> I'm a little confused-did the final already happen for the rest of the >>> students? If so, were you planning to take it later because of >>> alternative testing procedures? Or, has your section's final not >>> happened yet? >>> You're definitely in a tough situation and I admire you for seeking >>> the fair path rather than the easy one. I do have a couple of comments >>> based on my past work as a teaching assistant. First, nowadays there >>> is a lot of external pressure on professors to be lenient (sometimes >>> overly so) in their grading. It does sound like this guy is generally >>> very lenient in his grading for all students. Since he did say he >>> offers grade adjustments to all students who repeat the class, it >>> doesn't sound to me like blindness was a factor at all in the >>> decision, unless, as I asked about above, you are taking the final >>> later than everyone else because of your particular testing >>> accommodations. This brings me to my second observation from teaching >>> and that is that oftentimes professors don't like dealing with late >>> tests. We tend to grade tests (and especially finals) all at once and >>> so it takes some extra effort to grade the tests that come in later >>> and add the new grades to the gradebook. I have TA'ed for professors >>> who have waived students' late finals in order to avoid this extra >>> hassle. So if you are needing to take the final exam late because of >>> alternative testing procedures, it may well just be easier for your >>> professor to not have to grade it. >>> One way to avoid having to take tests late, if you don't already do >>> this, is to request to take your tests on your laptop in the regular >>> classroom. Your prof can email you the test, or give it to you on a >>> thumb drive, and you can email it back. In my experience about 95% of >>> professors are fine with this arrangement. This has the advantage that >>> your test is received and scored at roughly the same time as everyone >>> else's. >>> Best of luck! >>> Arielle > >>> On 4/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> How good of you to ensure your grade is fair rather than out of sympathy >>>> or >>>> something because you're blind. >>>> I'd say if the final would raise your grade then take it. But if it >>>> would >>>> be >>>> lower, just go with the work you've already done. >>>> Also another idea to earn the grade is extra work or doing the homework >>>> you >>>> missed for some credit. > >>>> Ashley > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:53 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment > >>>> Dear nabs list, >>>> So here is my professor's reply to my email. I'm accepting it, but >>>> I feel a little guilty about doing so. He offered to let me not count >>>> the final exam because he offered the same to other students who were >>>> taking the exam late. I want to hear your guys' thoughts, I'm still a >>>> little bit hesitant to do this even though I know I probably will. >>>> (message begins below) >>>> Ahoy Kirt: > >>>> Thanks for your e-mails. Honestly, I can't say that your blindness was >>>> not a factor in deciding your grade, but if it was, it wasn't >>>> decisive. On your exams you averaged a B. True, you didn't do the >>>> homework. That would have lowered your grade a full letter. But I >>>> almost always raise, by one grade, the grade of any student who is >>>> repeating the class--after listening to my corny jokes for two >>>> semesters, I think they deserve it. So that brings us to the final. On >>>> Monday, while we were grading the exams, two students who had medical >>>> excuses to take the exam late, were just about to get started. I >>>> basically told them, what [teachers aid name omitted] probably told >>>> you, namely: I'm willing to give them the grade they had already >>>> earned in the course so they didn't need to take the final unless they >>>> wanted to or unless they thought they could improve their grade by >>>> doing so. One of them got an A the other a C+, but they were both >>>> content with the grade I offered them and neither took the final. So >>>> if I cut you some extra slack on account of your blindness, it wasn't >>>> much. You were graded pretty consistently with everyone else. If, at >>>> some point, you would still like to take the final, you can tell >>>> [teachers aid name omitted]--she has a copy just in case you want to >>>> take it. > >>>> Hope that clarifies things a bit. > >>>> Cheers >>>> [professor's name omitted] > >>>> On 4/20/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >>>>> Hi Kurt, > >>>>> I think you're doing the honorable thing by making sure your prof. >>>>> isn't >>>>> giving you a B just cuz you're blind and you might well be correct that >>>>> he/she is. I hope he/she learns from your honesty. BTW, what >>>>> accommodations did you use or know you should've used? I'm wondering >>>>> cuz >>>>> I'm taking Stats this summer online through Rutgers. > >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Serena > >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Kirt Manwaring >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:35 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] professors and preferential treatment > >>>>> Dear nabs list, >>>>> So I'm currently retaking a class I took last semester. It's a >>>>> logic class, which involves a lot of tables. Last semester I took the >>>>> class, I got a d+, mostly because I was lazy and didn't do all the >>>>> homework, which made me bomb a few tests. This semester I did enough >>>>> in the class to probably get a grade in the C range...but today I >>>>> found out the professor isn't requiring me to take the final and he's >>>>> giving me a flat B in the class. I'm putting a copy of the letter I >>>>> sent this professor below my message here, I'd love to know what you >>>>> think of it. If he's giving me the B just to be merciful, as I know >>>>> some professors do to students who struggle in classes (especially >>>>> this professor, he gives students breaks and errs on the side of >>>>> compassion when handing out grades to all his students), but I want to >>>>> make sure him cutting me this slack has nothing to do with my >>>>> blindness. And I fear blindness is a factor...I'm not sure if this >>>>> letter will prompt him to change his mind and give me the grade I >>>>> deserve, but at least I tried. >>>>> ------------- >>>>> Dear [professor's name omitted], >>>>> [teacher's aid's name omitted] just told me I'm not required to take >>>>> the final and I'm >>>>> getting a B in the class. I apreciate the sentiment of what you're >>>>> doing...and, honestly, a B would look much better on my GPA than what >>>>> I probably deserve. It would certainly be more advantageous for me to >>>>> get a B in the class. But I can't help feeling it's cheating me of a >>>>> valuable learning experience, and here's why. >>>>> In retaking the class, I knew exactly what I was in for. I still >>>>> chose to be lazy and not do most of my homework. In retaking the >>>>> class, I was totally aware of the accomodations I needed to make with >>>>> the course...and those accomodations were made in such a way as to >>>>> pretty much make my blindness a non-factor. Or at least a very >>>>> minimal factor. >>>>> I knew exactly what I needed to do in the course to be successful, >>>>> and I didn't do it all. I did do better the second time around...but >>>>> I honestly think my homework score the second semester taking the >>>>> course was worse than it was the first time I took it. If we're going >>>>> purely by points, I'd probably deserve somewhere in the C range. And >>>>> I'm totally aware a B looks much better on my GPA. But I didn't do >>>>> the work to deserve that kind of grade. >>>>> If you're cutting me a break to be compassionate...I'm really not >>>>> going to argue because I like having a B on my transcript. But I feel >>>>> a little uneasy about it because I know I don't deserve it and, were I >>>>> not blind, I doubt you'd be quite so kind. And I can honestly say my >>>>> blindness wasn't the reason I gave you C quality work. I know you've >>>>> had blind students do amazing in your class before. I know how to be >>>>> successful as a blind student...I just didn't do everything I needed >>>>> to to get a B grade. And, although it's really attractive to me and >>>>> I'm kicking myself for asking you this, I hope you'll reconsider and >>>>> give me the grade I deserve rather than the grade I want. >>>>> Take care and thanks for the class, >>>>> Kirt > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >>>>> n.net > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 19:43:18 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 13:43:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <996AD157-ED3A-41B4-8926-12FC84114B54@gmail.com> References: <20110422191652.4780.55107@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> <996AD157-ED3A-41B4-8926-12FC84114B54@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jorge, Maybe it's conceivable that a sighted person just doesn't want to see. I can't imagine it, but I suppose it's possible. While I wouldn't consider such a thing to be reasonable, I'd hold on to sight if I was born with it for the same reason I'd probably hold on to blindness if given the choice, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for deciding to become blind. But I know I'd never do it. I'll stop rambling now, Kirt On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > That's a great psychological question. > I don't think, (please correct me if I'm wrong), that human psychology would > allow for such a move. > In other words, it would allow for a blind person to have the chance to be > sighted--but it wouldn't even be thought about a sighted person thinking and > wanting to be blind. > > Is my understanding of psychology correct? > Or is there any loophole in which a state of mind could be created where a > sighted person would wanna be blind? > > Jorge > > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:23 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > >> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is reasonable >> to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario >> like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for >> a >> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever >> reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? >> >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >> >>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a >>> number >>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >>> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's >>> certainly >>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, >>> and >>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >>> >>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility >>> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather >>> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other >>> words, >>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and >>> more >>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone >>> regardless of characteristics. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> >>> Original message: >>> >>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>> >>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hombertu, >>>>> I agree. >>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>>>> >>>> >>> Jorge >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>>> just >>>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't >>>>>> want >>>>>> to be. >>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I >>>>>> am >>>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom >>>>>> has >>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" >>>>>> but >>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that >>>>>> my >>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing >>>>>> way >>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending >>>>>> NFB >>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary >>>>>> and >>>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Hi, all. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>>>> >>>>>> loved one goes >>>>>> >>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>>> >>>>>> people talk >>>>>> >>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>>> >>>>>> when they lost >>>>>> >>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>>> >>>>>> about >>>>>> >>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>>> >>>>>> differently, >>>>>> >>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>>>> >>>>>> similar >>>>>> >>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>>> >>>>>> students >>>>>> >>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>>>> >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>>> >>>>>> both >>>>>> >>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>>> >>>>>> opinions on >>>>>> >>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>>> >>>>>> really got me >>>>>> >>>>>>> thinking. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> -Jamie >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>>> >>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 22 20:01:13 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:01:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: <20110422200113.14440.76118@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our world is structured for people who can see and there are some conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the change in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is reasonable > to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario > like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for a > sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever > reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a number >> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's certainly >> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, and >> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility >> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather >> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other words, >> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and more >> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone >> regardless of characteristics. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >> Jorge and Homberto, >>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>> spark some interesting conversations. >>> Just my thoughts, >>> Kirt >> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> Hombertu, >>>> I agree. >>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >> Jorge >> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>> just >>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>>>> to be. >>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I >>>>> am >>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary >>>>> and >>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >> Hi, all. >> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>> loved one goes >>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>> people talk >>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>> when they lost >>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>> about >>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>> differently, >>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>> similar >>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>> students >>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>> is >>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>> both >>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>> opinions on >>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>> really got me >>>>>> thinking. >> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >> -Jamie >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 22 20:27:36 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:27:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] What You've Heard about Structured Discovery Message-ID: <20110422202736.4785.96493@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Hey students! I was wondering what you've heard about Structured Discovery and the centers in which it's used. If you've gone to an SD center or were taught cane travel using Structured Discovery, please let me know what you were told or what you heard about it prior to your experience. Most important, where have all of you received your info from? in other words, who told you what you know or have heard about Structured Discovery and SD centers? Thanks. This info will be used as part of a research project I'm conducting for a class at Louisiana Tech. Respectfully, Jedi -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 23 01:37:44 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 18:37:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <20110422200113.14440.76118@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110422200113.14440.76118@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <008501cc0157$0b5fc4f0$221f4ed0$@panix.com> Jedi: How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? Yes, we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a while. Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together his/her weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us (including you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being blind is who we are or because we presume we would have to make adjustments. But Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, automagically make all those adjustments for us so the operative question would be: "If you didn't have to do anything outside of sucking down a pill to become sighted with all its attributes and knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and driving, would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, if only because the world is structured for the sighted. And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our identities are constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB philosophy, we wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently different from other characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, as long as there were no great inconveniences other than learning a few skills to gaining sight, it would be rather dense of us not to take the chance. But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain has already been rewired. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our world is structured for people who can see and there are some conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the change in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is reasonable > to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario > like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for a > sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever > reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a number >> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's certainly >> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, and >> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility >> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather >> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other words, >> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and more >> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone >> regardless of characteristics. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >> Jorge and Homberto, >>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>> spark some interesting conversations. >>> Just my thoughts, >>> Kirt >> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> Hombertu, >>>> I agree. >>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >> Jorge >> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>> just >>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>>>> to be. >>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I >>>>> am >>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary >>>>> and >>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >> Hi, all. >> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>> loved one goes >>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>> people talk >>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>> when they lost >>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>> about >>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>> differently, >>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>> similar >>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>> students >>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>> is >>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>> both >>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>> opinions on >>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>> really got me >>>>>> thinking. >> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >> -Jamie >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae z%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail .com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Sat Apr 23 03:06:24 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 20:06:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: Hi Jedi, I feel the same way. Just like you said, everything that you said was just exactly what I want to say. I've also had these little curiosities about modern and future scientific technologies that would make science more medicinal and make people more sighted instantly. I feel like, if the government had to step in, the should at least respect our decisions. Though I have a slight feeling that, like you said, they would want us by requirement to have sight because "it's much easier" than being blind, and that is if that sciences has been even technological that the above thing can happen, have sight. But whatever happens, I still want to be blind no matter what! I believe blindness is beautiful and I'm fine the way I am! > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Jedi To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Date sent: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:16:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a >number of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had >to the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, >it's certainly true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important >part of who I am, and that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive >through sight. >What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the >possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such >procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted >world. In other words, the government or the world at large would think >it's much easier and more reasonable to cure us rather than make a >world that's usable for everyone regardless of characteristics. >Respectfully, >Jedi >Original message: >> Jorge and Homberto, >> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >> spark some interesting conversations. >> Just my thoughts, >> Kirt >> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Hombertu, >>> I agree. >>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>> I've learned everything without sight. >>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>> Jorge >>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; just >>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't want >>>> to be. >>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I am >>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom has >>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" but >>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that my >>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing way >>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending NFB >>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary and >>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>>> Hi, all. >>>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>> loved one goes >>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>> people talk >>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>> when they lost >>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>> about >>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>> differently, >>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>> similar >>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>> students >>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>> is >>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>> both >>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>> opinions on >>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>> really got me >>>>> thinking. >>>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>>> -Jamie >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert echjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind jedi%40samobile.net >-- >Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 03:18:34 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:18:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] o/t selling compact laptop Message-ID: <0BF02701-6CCB-46D2-95F4-7295AECA5C41@gmail.com> Hi NABSTERS: Sorry I know this is a little off list, but if anyone is looking for a laptop, I am selling a Compact laptop right now for $280. Can install Windows XP, VISTA and or 7, its up to you. I can also install NVDA if you want. Has 4 gigs of ram, 160 GB hard drive. Please contact me offline if interested. Thanks, Jorge From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 23 03:49:28 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:49:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Mike, Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll admit to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of conveniences associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, here is a list I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list to come up with some others if so moved. 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one out somewhere in one of his speeches. 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted. 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story about his gray pancakes. 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves into in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech explained how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order to fix something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed to put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable. 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, but I consider this a major convenience. All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight comes from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you did. Now that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things non-visually. Sure, a sighted person can learn to do these things, but they often don't because they think the way they do things visually is more efficient. As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of it as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin is a characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. Does that make sense? Original message: > Jedi: > How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? Yes, > we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a while. > Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together his/her > weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! > Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us (including > you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being blind is > who we are or because we presume we would have to make adjustments. But > Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, automagically make all those > adjustments for us so the operative question would be: "If you didn't have > to do anything outside of sucking down a pill to become sighted with all its > attributes and knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and > driving, would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, > if only because the world is structured for the sighted. > And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our identities are > constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB philosophy, we > wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently different from other > characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, as long as there were no > great inconveniences other than learning a few skills to gaining sight, it > would be rather dense of us not to take the chance. > But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain has > already been rewired. > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind > usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some > kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is > injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The > scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that > blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good > thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of > society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one > fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our > world is structured for people who can see and there are some > conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences > associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from > rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal > characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do > so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required > to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative > blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as > giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to > relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the change > in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is reasonable >> to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario >> like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for > a >> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever >> reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a > number >>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >>> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's > certainly >>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, > and >>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility >>> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures rather >>> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other > words, >>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and > more >>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone >>> regardless of characteristics. >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> Kirt >>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> Hombertu, >>>>> I agree. >>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>> Jorge >>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>>> just >>>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird when >>>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't > want >>>>>> to be. >>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since I >>>>>> am >>>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom > has >>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" > but >>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that > my >>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing > way >>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending > NFB >>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something ordinary >>>>>> and >>>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>> Hi, all. >>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>>> loved one goes >>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>> people talk >>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>> when they lost >>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>> about >>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>> differently, >>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>>> similar >>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>> students >>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>>> is >>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>> both >>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>> opinions on >>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>> really got me >>>>>>> thinking. >>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>> -Jamie >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail > .com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 23 04:08:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 00:08:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> References: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <451F5A7DEF7442979E6243A0E315ED39@OwnerPC> I agree on the mirror thing. Some of my conveniences relate to doing something without light. But really, no one sighted would want to become blind. Maybe they'd go around blindfolded a few days if they really wanted to read braille and experience it, because they knew a blind person or something. But otherwise they would not want to become blind. My list. 1. We can read braille with no light or little light. So, even in a dim lighted room, its alright. Comes in handy in movie theaters or concert halls where lights are dimmed or turned off; I can read my braille program, if there i s one, without straining to see it due to light. 2. We can slide a hand or tool like a cane or ruler under something to prove nonvisually. Sighted people usually just grab a flashlight to peer in a dark corner or under the shelf. 3. We have better listening skills because we use them more. In lectures or instances with little visual input, we may be at an advantage to listen to the words and the tone and inflections of the person. Not distracted by the presence or lack of visuals. 4. Its convenient to walk down a hall or to the kitchen and smell what is cooking. Sighted people have to see it to identify anything. They have to be right there then, since they cannot see between walls. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jedi Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:49 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Mike, Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll admit to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of conveniences associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, here is a list I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list to come up with some others if so moved. 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one out somewhere in one of his speeches. 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted. 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story about his gray pancakes. 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves into in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech explained how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order to fix something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed to put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable. 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, but I consider this a major convenience. All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight comes from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you did. Now that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things non-visually. Sure, a sighted person can learn to do these things, but they often don't because they think the way they do things visually is more efficient. As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of it as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin is a characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. Does that make sense? Original message: > Jedi: > How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? > Yes, > we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a > while. > Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together > his/her > weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! > Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us (including > you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being blind > is > who we are or because we presume we would have to make adjustments. But > Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, automagically make all those > adjustments for us so the operative question would be: "If you didn't > have > to do anything outside of sucking down a pill to become sighted with all > its > attributes and knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and > driving, would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, > if only because the world is structured for the sighted. > And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our identities > are > constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB philosophy, we > wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently different from other > characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, as long as there were no > great inconveniences other than learning a few skills to gaining sight, it > would be rather dense of us not to take the chance. > But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain has > already been rewired. > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind > usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some > kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is > injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The > scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that > blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good > thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of > society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one > fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our > world is structured for people who can see and there are some > conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences > associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from > rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal > characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do > so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required > to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative > blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as > giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to > relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the change > in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is >> reasonable >> to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario >> like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for > a >> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever >> reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a > number >>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >>> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's > certainly >>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, > and >>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the >>> possibility >>> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures >>> rather >>> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other > words, >>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and > more >>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for >>> everyone >>> regardless of characteristics. >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> Kirt >>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> Hombertu, >>>>> I agree. >>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>> Jorge >>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>>> just >>>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird >>>>>> when >>>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't > want >>>>>> to be. >>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since >>>>>> I >>>>>> am >>>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom > has >>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" > but >>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that > my >>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing > way >>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending > NFB >>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something >>>>>> ordinary >>>>>> and >>>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>> Hi, all. >>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>>> loved one goes >>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>> people talk >>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>> when they lost >>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>> about >>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>> differently, >>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>>> similar >>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>> students >>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>>> is >>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>> both >>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>> opinions on >>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>> really got me >>>>>>> thinking. >>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>> -Jamie >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail > .com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 04:29:09 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 00:29:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <451F5A7DEF7442979E6243A0E315ED39@OwnerPC> References: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> <451F5A7DEF7442979E6243A0E315ED39@OwnerPC> Message-ID: But if you took the magic sight pill, you'd only gain the ability to use sight. You would still have all of your blindness related skills, and would theoretically be better off than the average sighted because you could still use braille, still know that you shouldn't take hearing for granted, still be able to navigate without light, just as long as you continued to practice these skills. If you found you couldn't adapt to sight for some tasks, why not close your eyes or wear sleep shades, and enjoy the advantages of both worlds? The biggest difference I see between taking the sight pill and being able to see vs. taking the blindness pill and losing your sight is that the latter will always result in a net loss of something, since the sighted person would lose sight and have no blindness skills to work with. The former would always result in a net gain since you would retain everything you've gained through blindness and be given the opportunity to have sight as well when you want it. Surely we feel it is acceptable for the sighted to use blindness skills for some tasks if they chose to and found it beneficial, right? As for whether the sighted would ever want to be blind, there are a minority of individuals who do, for some reason, want disabilities, and some will inflict harm, or find doctors willing to perform procedures to make this happen. These procedures are considered highly unethical, and these individuals are often considered mentally unhealthy, but if blindness isn't a major disability and is just a characteristic, perhaps even one that yields some benefits to some people, wouldn't this be no more unethical or insane than undergoing a procedure to gain sight, or, ruling out the medical risks entirely, just taking the sight pill? This is getting really interesting. Thanks to everyone so far who has shared their insight. On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 12:08 AM, wrote: > I agree on the mirror thing. > Some of my conveniences relate to doing something without light. > But really, no one sighted would want to become blind. Maybe they'd go > around blindfolded a few days if they really wanted to read braille and > experience it, because they knew a blind person or something. But otherwise > they would not want to become blind. > > My list. > 1. We can read braille with no light or little light. So, even in a dim > lighted room, its alright. Comes in handy in movie theaters or concert halls > where lights are dimmed or turned off; I can read my braille program, if > there i s one, without straining to see it due to light. > 2. We can slide a hand or tool like a cane or ruler under something to > prove nonvisually. Sighted people usually just grab a flashlight to peer in > a dark corner or under the shelf. > > 3. We have better listening skills because we use them more. In lectures > or instances with little visual input, we may be at an advantage to listen > to the words and the tone and inflections of the person. Not distracted by > the presence or lack of visuals. > 4. Its convenient to walk down a hall or to the kitchen and smell what is > cooking. Sighted people have to see it to identify anything. They have to > be right there then, since they cannot see between walls. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jedi > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:49 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > > Mike, > > Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to > believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll > admit to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of > conveniences associated with being blind. But for the fun of the > exercise, here is a list I've generated thus far and encourage the rest > of the list to come up with some others if so moved. > > 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this > one out somewhere in one of his speeches. > 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. > 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including > brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the > fact that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's > seldom considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the > sighted. > 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color > things are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's > story about his gray pancakes. > 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves > into in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech > explained how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in > order to fix something; this need required him to attempt to place his > hands, a flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then > realized that if he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he > would have only needed to put his hands into the space thus being much > more comfortable. > 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, > but I consider this a major convenience. > > All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a > blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the > conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way > they function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to > see someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to > functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight > comes from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you > did. Now that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things > non-visually. Sure, a sighted person can learn to do these things, but > they often don't because they think the way they do things visually is > more efficient. > > As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is > possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think > of it as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that > black skin is a characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to > one's identity. Does that make sense? > > Original message: > >> Jedi: >> > > How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? >> Yes, >> we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a >> while. >> Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together >> his/her >> weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! >> > > Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us (including >> you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being blind >> is >> who we are or because we presume we would have to make adjustments. But >> Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, automagically make all those >> adjustments for us so the operative question would be: "If you didn't >> have >> to do anything outside of sucking down a pill to become sighted with all >> its >> attributes and knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and >> driving, would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, >> if only because the world is structured for the sighted. >> > > And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our identities >> are >> constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB philosophy, we >> wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently different from other >> characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, as long as there were no >> great inconveniences other than learning a few skills to gaining sight, it >> would be rather dense of us not to take the chance. >> > > But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain has >> already been rewired. >> > > Mike >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >> > > Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind >> usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some >> kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is >> injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The >> scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that >> blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good >> thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of >> society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one >> fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our >> world is structured for people who can see and there are some >> conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences >> associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from >> rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal >> characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do >> so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required >> to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative >> blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as >> giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to >> relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the change >> in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. >> > > Respectfully, >> Jedi >> > > Original message: >> >>> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is >>> reasonable >>> to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" scenario >>> like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable for >>> >> a >> >>> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what ever >>> reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? >>> >> > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> >> > For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a >>>> >>> number >> >>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >>>> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's >>>> >>> certainly >> >>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, >>>> >>> and >> >>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >>>> >>> > What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the possibility >>>> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures >>>> rather >>>> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other >>>> >>> words, >> >>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and >>>> >>> more >> >>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for everyone >>>> regardless of characteristics. >>>> >>> > Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>> > > Original message: >>>> >>> > Jorge and Homberto, >>>> >>>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>>>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>>>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>>>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>>>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>>>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>>>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>> > > On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> >>> > Hombertu, >>>>>> I agree. >>>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. >>>>>> >>>>> > > Jorge >>>> >>> > > > On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>>> >>> > > First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>> >>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being sighted; >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't >>>>>>> >>>>>> want >> >>> to be. >>>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom >>>>>>> >>>>>> has >> >>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" >>>>>>> >>>>>> but >> >>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * that >>>>>>> >>>>>> my >> >>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing >>>>>>> >>>>>> way >> >>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending >>>>>>> >>>>>> NFB >> >>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something >>>>>>> ordinary >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > Hi, all. >>>> >>> > > I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>> >>> > loved one goes >>>>>>> >>>>>> > blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > people talk >>>>>>> >>>>>> > about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > when they lost >>>>>>> >>>>>> > their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > about >>>>>>> >>>>>> > sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > differently, >>>>>>> >>>>>> > or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>> >>> > similar >>>>>>> >>>>>> > situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > students >>>>>>> >>>>>> > suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > is >>>>>>> >>>>>> > becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > both >>>>>>> >>>>>> > congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > opinions on >>>>>>> >>>>>> > matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > really got me >>>>>>> >>>>>> > thinking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>> >>> > > -Jamie >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > 5369%40netzero.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae >> z%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma >> il.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> > > > -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 23 04:59:37 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 21:59:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> References: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <009b01cc0173$3fd1c280$bf754780$@panix.com> Jedi: Well done. I appreciate a thoughtful post such as that below. As to having black skin being part of one's identity, is it the black skin or the cultural nuances and preferences that traditionally have been supposed to go along with black skin or have been imposed upon those with black skin that are what contributes to the identity? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:49 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Mike, Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll admit to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of conveniences associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, here is a list I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list to come up with some others if so moved. 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one out somewhere in one of his speeches. 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted. 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story about his gray pancakes. 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves into in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech explained how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order to fix something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed to put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable. 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, but I consider this a major convenience. All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight comes from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you did. Now that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things non-visually. Sure, a sighted person can learn to do these things, but they often don't because they think the way they do things visually is more efficient. As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of it as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin is a characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. Does that make sense? Original message: > Jedi: > How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? > Yes, we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a while. > Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together > his/her weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! > Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us > (including > you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being > blind is who we are or because we presume we would have to make > adjustments. But Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, > automagically make all those adjustments for us so the operative > question would be: "If you didn't have to do anything outside of > sucking down a pill to become sighted with all its attributes and > knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and driving, > would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, if only because the world is structured for the sighted. > And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our > identities are constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB > philosophy, we wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently > different from other characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, > as long as there were no great inconveniences other than learning a > few skills to gaining sight, it would be rather dense of us not to take the chance. > But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain > has already been rewired. > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jedi > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind > usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some > kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is > injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The > scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that > blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good > thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of > society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one > fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our > world is structured for people who can see and there are some > conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences > associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from > rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal > characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do > so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required > to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative > blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as > giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to > relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the > change in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is >> reasonable to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic >> pill" scenario like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be >> equally acceptable for > a >> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what >> ever reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind people? >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a > number >>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to >>> the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, >>> it's > certainly >>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I >>> am, > and >>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the >>> possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such >>> procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a >>> sighted world. In other > words, >>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier >>> and > more >>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for >>> everyone regardless of characteristics. >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, >>>> I wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I >>>> sometimes would like to see...but if the option were available, the >>>> tedium of relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the >>>> surgery for something I don't really need, more than balance out >>>> any wish I have to see. But, should a blind friend choose >>>> differently and receive sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> Kirt >>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> Hombertu, >>>>> I agree. >>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, and sight would >>>>> just make it too difficult. >>> Jorge >>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I >>> myself >>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being >>>>>> sighted; just like a sighted person had been born with sight and >>>>>> feeling weird when they become blind. The world would be so >>>>>> different and I cannot even explain how different since I've >>>>>> never ever been sighted, and don't > want >>>>>> to be. >>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind >>>>>> since I am born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for >>>>>> me. Even my mom > has >>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" > but >>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * >>>>>> that > my >>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite >>>>>> convincing > way >>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and >>>>>> attending > NFB >>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my >>>>>> own philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something >>>>>> ordinary and normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted >>>>>> about. >>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>> Hi, all. >>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>>> loved one goes >>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>> people talk >>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>> when they lost >>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>> about >>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>> differently, >>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>>> similar >>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>> students >>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, >>>>>>> it >>>>>> is >>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>> both >>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>> opinions on >>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>> really got me >>>>>>> thinking. >>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>> -Jamie >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humberto >>>>>>> a >>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjo > rgepae > z%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gma > il.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% > 40samo > bile.net >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%4 > 0gmail > .com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% > 40samo > bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 23 05:14:03 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 22:14:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> George: There are a whole slew of blind folks (including yours truly) who do not own scanners and scanning software. I realize I'll be flamed for this but one can pay for a lot of reader time for what one must invest into scanning hardware/software for what is, in my estimation, an imperfect instrument at best. Some things just require money; that's the way the world works. I wouldn't worry about it at this point. You might need a scanner and OCR software when you're in college although I am of the opinion that far too many college students use them far too much when using a live reader would be more efficient. At any rate, in college your rehab agency would be more inclined to purchase the requisite software/hardware for you. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:29 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Hi NABsters: As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd have to do on my own), and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. Here's my issue though: My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still with the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. What can I do? I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing anything either. What can I do? I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. Thanks for any advice. Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Apr 23 05:18:26 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 22:18:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted References: <20110423034928.22880.693@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: People who are blind can read in the dark without needing a light. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > Mike, > > Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to > believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll > admit to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of > conveniences associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, > here is a list I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list > to come up with some others if so moved. > > 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one > out somewhere in one of his speeches. > 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. > 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including > brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact > that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom > considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted. > 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things > are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story > about his gray pancakes. > 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves > into in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech > explained how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order > to fix something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a > flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if > he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed > to put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable. > 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, > but I consider this a major convenience. > > All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a > blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the > conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they > function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see > someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to > functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight > comes from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you > did. Now that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things > non-visually. Sure, a sighted person can learn to do these things, but > they often don't because they think the way they do things visually is > more efficient. > > As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is > possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of > it as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin > is a characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. > Does that make sense? > > Original message: >> Jedi: > >> How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? >> Yes, >> we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a >> while. >> Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together >> his/her >> weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! > >> Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us (including >> you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being blind >> is >> who we are or because we presume we would have to make adjustments. But >> Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, automagically make all those >> adjustments for us so the operative question would be: "If you didn't >> have >> to do anything outside of sucking down a pill to become sighted with all >> its >> attributes and knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and >> driving, would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be >> yes, >> if only because the world is structured for the sighted. > >> And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our identities >> are >> constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB philosophy, we >> wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently different from other >> characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, as long as there were no >> great inconveniences other than learning a few skills to gaining sight, >> it >> would be rather dense of us not to take the chance. > >> But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain has >> already been rewired. > >> Mike > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > >> Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind >> usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some >> kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is >> injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The >> scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that >> blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good >> thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of >> society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one >> fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our >> world is structured for people who can see and there are some >> conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences >> associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from >> rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal >> characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do >> so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required >> to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative >> blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as >> giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to >> relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the change >> in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. > >> Respectfully, >> Jedi > >> Original message: >>> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is >>> reasonable >>> to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic pill" >>> scenario >>> like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be equally acceptable >>> for >> a >>> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what >>> ever >>> reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind >>> people? > >>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi >>> wrote: > >>>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a >> number >>>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to the >>>> career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, it's >> certainly >>>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I am, >> and >>>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. > >>>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the >>>> possibility >>>> that governments will require all of us to undergo such procedures >>>> rather >>>> than allowing us the ability to be blind in a sighted world. In other >> words, >>>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier and >> more >>>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for >>>> everyone >>>> regardless of characteristics. > >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi > > >>>> Original message: > >>>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, I >>>>> wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I sometimes >>>>> would like to see...but if the option were available, the tedium of >>>>> relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the surgery for >>>>> something I don't really need, more than balance out any wish I have >>>>> to see. But, should a blind friend choose differently and receive >>>>> sight, I would totally understand, respect and support that decision. >>>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>> Kirt > > >>>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>>>> Hombertu, >>>>>> I agree. >>>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, >>>>>> and sight would just make it too difficult. > > >>>> Jorge > > > >>>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: > > >>>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I myself >>>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being >>>>>>> sighted; >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> like a sighted person had been born with sight and feeling weird >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> they become blind. The world would be so different and I cannot even >>>>>>> explain how different since I've never ever been sighted, and don't >> want >>>>>>> to be. >>>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind since >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for me. Even my mom >> has >>>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" >> but >>>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * >>>>>>> that >> my >>>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite convincing >> way >>>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and attending >> NFB >>>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my own >>>>>>> philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something >>>>>>> ordinary >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted about. >>>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. > > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > > >>>> Hi, all. > > >>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a > >>>>>>> loved one goes > >>>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear > >>>>>>> people talk > >>>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community > >>>>>>> when they lost > >>>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list > >>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us > >>>>>>> differently, > >>>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. > > >>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in > >>>>>>> similar > >>>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind > >>>>>>> students > >>>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, it > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of > >>>>>>> both > >>>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different > >>>>>>> opinions on > >>>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question > >>>>>>> really got me > >>>>>>>> thinking. > > >>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! > > >>>> -Jamie >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > >>>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae >> z%40gmail.com > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma >> il.com > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net > > >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail >> .com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 23 05:58:24 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 01:58:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted Message-ID: <20110423055824.24979.23957@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Yep, it's the cultural implications of black skin. And yes, i am a strong proponent of the concept of blind culture. But before you kill me on that one *grin* let me try to explain why I think there is "blind culture." Culture is a lot more than just language and geographic location. It's a lot more than just religion (for example) or art work. It's all of the above. Cultures are greater than the sum of their parts and consist of a shared set of beliefs, values, items, ways of doing things, and experiences that get transmitted from one generation to the next. Not all cultures have the same characteristics. for example, American culture isn't based purely on one religion, but it could be argued that some Middle Eastern countries have cultures that are. When it comes to blind culture, I think there are lots of them that share a lot of similar things. I think every country has its own blind cultures, and i'm pretty sure the U.S. has at least four, maybe even five. I make these distinctions based on each culture's beliefs, traditions, values, assumptions, artifacts, and even some linguistic differences. Yes, these cultures specifically relate to blindness, but I believe that they influence other aspects of our lives without us even being aware of it, especially since we live in a society that says blindness is such a huge factor in our lives. So here is my cultural taxonomy for the U.S. There's the NFB, the ACB, the unaffiliated blind, traditionally-trained professionals serving the blind, and consumer-based professionals serving the blind. I can't really comment too much on the ACB nor the unaffiliated blind because I am part of neither culture nor have I had the ability to study it. I can't really even say much about traditionall-trained professionals because I'm still in the process of studying their culture and because I'm not a part of it. But i do feel qualified to comment on NFB culture and consumer-based professional culture (which is pretty well the same thing but with a slight twist). I said that culture is defined as a set of values, assumptions, and artifacts, traditions, etc. So to make it short, I'll list a couple of things that I think can be listed for the NFB under each category. I've gone into these categories before elsewhere on list, so I won't put people through it again. Artifacts (things cultures use like language, art, things, symbols, etc): our characteristic long cane, the Whozit, the old NFB seal, our NFB songs, our catch phrases (It's respectable to be blind), our jargain, the national convention and the traditional activities in it like the mock trial, the LCB play, and the banquet speech, and our extremely timely agendas. Values (things we think are important): timeliness, independence, neatness, love, togetherness, collective action, confidence, competence, leadership, literacy, innovation, and justice Assumptions (these complete the phrase "of course..."): blindness is respectable, the blind can be independent, the blind should be integrated into society, the sighted should join us, but they shouldn't determine our destiny, we should take care of each other and help each other out whenever possible, we should take care of our space (the national center for example) You won't find a lot of these in any other blindness culture here in the U.S. And what about the issue of blind people integrating into society and this concept of blind culture? Funnily enough, it's one aspect of our blindness culture in the NFB that makes this argument possible to begin with. We share many cultural elements in common with the sighted since we are a cross-section of society at large; but we've also taken great pains to do what the sighted do in a number of areas such as social skills (for example). Our belief in inegration to the extent that it exists is something unique to our blind culture here in the NFB and that's why we can argue that the blind should not isolate themselves from sighted society because we are part of society and should be part of society. But here's the thing. You can belong to several cultures at once; it's called intersectionality. for instance, you can be Latino and still be an American. You can be culturally Deaf and be engaged in the local LGBT culture. You can be a member of the NFB culture and be just as a part of the greater sighted American culture. Some of these cultural identities share commonalities and sometimes they clash. In the NFB, we have both similarities with our sighted culture aspects and some horrible clashes, too. that's just the nature of being human and having multiple identities int the same body. I'm off my soap box now. *grin* Respectfully Submitted Original message: > Jedi: > Well done. I appreciate a thoughtful post such as that below. > As to having black skin being part of one's identity, is it the black skin > or the cultural nuances and preferences that traditionally have been > supposed to go along with black skin or have been imposed upon those with > black skin that are what contributes to the identity? > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:49 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > Mike, > Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to > believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll admit > to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of conveniences > associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, here is a list > I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list to come up with > some others if so moved. > 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one > out somewhere in one of his speeches. > 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. > 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including > brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact > that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom > considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted. > 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things > are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story about > his gray pancakes. > 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves into > in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech explained > how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order to fix > something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a > flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if > he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed to > put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable. > 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, but > I consider this a major convenience. > All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a > blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the > conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they > function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see > someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to > functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight comes > from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you did. Now > that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things non-visually. Sure, a > sighted person can learn to do these things, but they often don't because > they think the way they do things visually is more efficient. > As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is > possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of it > as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin is a > characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. Does that > make sense? > Original message: >> Jedi: >> How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? >> Yes, we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a > while. >> Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together >> his/her weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! >> Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us >> (including >> you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being >> blind is who we are or because we presume we would have to make >> adjustments. But Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, >> automagically make all those adjustments for us so the operative >> question would be: "If you didn't have to do anything outside of >> sucking down a pill to become sighted with all its attributes and >> knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and driving, >> would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, if only > because the world is structured for the sighted. >> And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our >> identities are constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB >> philosophy, we wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently >> different from other characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, >> as long as there were no great inconveniences other than learning a >> few skills to gaining sight, it would be rather dense of us not to take > the chance. >> But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain >> has already been rewired. >> Mike >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Jedi >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >> Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind >> usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some >> kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is >> injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The >> scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that >> blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good >> thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of >> society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one >> fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our >> world is structured for people who can see and there are some >> conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences >> associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from >> rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal >> characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do >> so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required >> to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative >> blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as >> giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to >> relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the >> change in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is >>> reasonable to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic >>> pill" scenario like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be >>> equally acceptable for >> a >>> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what >>> ever reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind > people? >>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi wrote: >>>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a >> number >>>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to >>>> the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, >>>> it's >> certainly >>>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I >>>> am, >> and >>>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. >>>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the >>>> possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such >>>> procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a >>>> sighted world. In other >> words, >>>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier >>>> and >> more >>>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for >>>> everyone regardless of characteristics. >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> Original message: >>>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, >>>>> I wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I >>>>> sometimes would like to see...but if the option were available, the >>>>> tedium of relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the >>>>> surgery for something I don't really need, more than balance out >>>>> any wish I have to see. But, should a blind friend choose >>>>> differently and receive sight, I would totally understand, respect and > support that decision. >>>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>> Kirt >>>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>>> Hombertu, >>>>>> I agree. >>>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, and sight would >>>>>> just make it too difficult. >>>> Jorge >>>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: >>>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I >>>> myself >>>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being >>>>>>> sighted; just like a sighted person had been born with sight and >>>>>>> feeling weird when they become blind. The world would be so >>>>>>> different and I cannot even explain how different since I've >>>>>>> never ever been sighted, and don't >> want >>>>>>> to be. >>>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind >>>>>>> since I am born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for >>>>>>> me. Even my mom >> has >>>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" >> but >>>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * >>>>>>> that >> my >>>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite >>>>>>> convincing >> way >>>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and >>>>>>> attending >> NFB >>>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my >>>>>>> own philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something >>>>>>> ordinary and normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted >>>>>>> about. >>>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted >>>> Hi, all. >>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a >>>>>>> loved one goes >>>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear >>>>>>> people talk >>>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community >>>>>>> when they lost >>>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list >>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us >>>>>>> differently, >>>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. >>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in >>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind >>>>>>> students >>>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of >>>>>>> both >>>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different >>>>>>> opinions on >>>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question >>>>>>> really got me >>>>>>>> thinking. >>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! >>>> -Jamie >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humberto >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjo >> rgepae >> z%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude >> %40gma >> il.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% >> 40samo >> bile.net >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%4 >> 0gmail >> .com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% >> 40samo >> bile.net > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 14:22:23 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 10:22:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: <3794E904D91A45E8BD3855ED14F4B0D8@hometwxakonvzn> When I was in university for my undergraduate studies, I asked disability student services to Braille an article I had to read for a research paper to which they responded, "You can scan the article," "I'm a Braille reader," I said. "You should have been taught how to use a scanner, because you're behind. Braille is becoming obsolete anyway!" What do you think I should have done? At the time I didn't know my rights. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question > George: > > There are a whole slew of blind folks (including yours truly) who do not > own > scanners and scanning software. I realize I'll be flamed for this but one > can pay for a lot of reader time for what one must invest into scanning > hardware/software for what is, in my estimation, an imperfect instrument > at > best. > > Some things just require money; that's the way the world works. > > I wouldn't worry about it at this point. You might need a scanner and OCR > software when you're in college although I am of the opinion that far too > many college students use them far too much when using a live reader would > be more efficient. At any rate, in college your rehab agency would be > more > inclined to purchase the requisite software/hardware for you. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:29 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] technology question > > Hi NABsters: > As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device > lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan > anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd > have > to do on my own), > and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. > Here's my issue though: > My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still > with > the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, > but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. > What can I do? > > I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know > they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing > anything either. > What can I do? > I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 15:08:09 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:08:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Quick Question References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: Hi all. This is Mark with a quick question. Feel free to respond either on or off list. I will be attending college at Suffolk University as a freshman in Boston this September. I have been accepted to attend the Seeing Eye July class. My question is, should I get a dog now, or should I defer it for a year and go to the training the summer before soft more year. I can see the merits of both, and just curious as to your thoughts. From djdan567 at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 16:48:29 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 12:48:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Quick Question In-Reply-To: References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: In my opinion, I think you should go to the class this summer. Not only are you going to get used to having a dog, but you will be able to learn together. I think it's better when people get dog guides before college simply because when they go for their college orintation, they're both sharing the experience, and the both of them are on the same page. Good luck man, and if you decide to get your dog now or later, I hope for the best. They're great animals. On 4/23/11, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > Hi all. This is Mark with a quick question. Feel free to respond either on > or off list. I will be attending college at Suffolk University as a freshman > in Boston this September. I have been accepted to attend the Seeing Eye July > class. My question is, should I get a dog now, or should I defer it for a > year and go to the training the summer before soft more year. I can see the > merits of both, and just curious as to your thoughts. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 23 16:51:39 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 09:51:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <3794E904D91A45E8BD3855ED14F4B0D8@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> <3794E904D91A45E8BD3855ED14F4B0D8@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <001801cc01d6$b82eb680$288c2380$@panix.com> If your DSS office brailled stuff for other students, I'd have raised a bit of a stink. But if it didn't do this, I think I'd have just had a reader record the article and then take brailled notes. When I was a student, one couldn't afford to be too picky about reading media; we were lucky to have material in any form. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 7:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question When I was in university for my undergraduate studies, I asked disability student services to Braille an article I had to read for a research paper to which they responded, "You can scan the article," "I'm a Braille reader," I said. "You should have been taught how to use a scanner, because you're behind. Braille is becoming obsolete anyway!" What do you think I should have done? At the time I didn't know my rights. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question > George: > > There are a whole slew of blind folks (including yours truly) who do > not own scanners and scanning software. I realize I'll be flamed for > this but one can pay for a lot of reader time for what one must invest > into scanning hardware/software for what is, in my estimation, an > imperfect instrument at best. > > Some things just require money; that's the way the world works. > > I wouldn't worry about it at this point. You might need a scanner and > OCR software when you're in college although I am of the opinion that > far too many college students use them far too much when using a live > reader would be more efficient. At any rate, in college your rehab > agency would be more inclined to purchase the requisite > software/hardware for you. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:29 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] technology question > > Hi NABsters: > As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning > device lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to > hand-scan anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any > emergencies/scanning I'd have to do on my own), and I've been looking > at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. > Here's my issue though: > My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and > still with the board of ed, the commission says its not their > responsability, but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at > home. > What can I do? > > I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I > know they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't > doing anything either. > What can I do? > I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan > defur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 17:17:00 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 12:17:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Message-ID: <001401cc01da$427a4770$c76ed650$@com> Speaking only for myself, I couldn't disagree more. Scanning and OCR is, for me, vastly superior to using a human reader. Certainly readers are necessary for some tasks, but I got through college almost exclusively by scanning and OCRing my materials. Of course you are correct that the scans are imperfect, but the ability to read things at over 500 words per minute, as opposed to the maybe 200 at which a person can read aloud, makes the imperfections a small price to pay. I think that anybody who tries to get by exclusively on readers is putting her or himself at a distinct disadvantage. With an electronic text, you have access to the material any time you need it. If you use a reader, you only have direct access to whatever notes you happened to take. When you read e-texts, you are in direct control of the information presented and do not need to communicate your desires to another person. I 100% agree that electronic texts and OCR should not be used to the exclusion of readers when there are reasons that make a human reader a better option, but neither should one rely solely on readers if they wish to maximize efficiency and have the best shot at success. Sean From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 23 17:24:12 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 10:24:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <001401cc01da$427a4770$c76ed650$@com> References: <001401cc01da$427a4770$c76ed650$@com> Message-ID: <003801cc01db$43cbb130$cb631390$@panix.com> With a reader, you can skip extraneous material and don't have to spend time scanning. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 10:17 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question Speaking only for myself, I couldn't disagree more. Scanning and OCR is, for me, vastly superior to using a human reader. Certainly readers are necessary for some tasks, but I got through college almost exclusively by scanning and OCRing my materials. Of course you are correct that the scans are imperfect, but the ability to read things at over 500 words per minute, as opposed to the maybe 200 at which a person can read aloud, makes the imperfections a small price to pay. I think that anybody who tries to get by exclusively on readers is putting her or himself at a distinct disadvantage. With an electronic text, you have access to the material any time you need it. If you use a reader, you only have direct access to whatever notes you happened to take. When you read e-texts, you are in direct control of the information presented and do not need to communicate your desires to another person. I 100% agree that electronic texts and OCR should not be used to the exclusion of readers when there are reasons that make a human reader a better option, but neither should one rely solely on readers if they wish to maximize efficiency and have the best shot at success. Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 18:23:57 2011 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 14:23:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Quick Question References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: <75E595FFFE424645B2EE06E931096BD2@Espy> Hi Mark!!! Congratulations on your acceptance to The Seeing Eye. I don't know if you remember me but we went to Friendly's in 08 with a bunch of people from Perkins. I was a volunteerr.. Anyway I got my dog after I had a couple of years of college under my belt. The perk to that is you'll know the campus, you'll know your workload, etc. I don't know if I would get the dog in the Summer, especially if you're entering into college.. COllege is so different from high school, a significantly heavier workload etc. I would wait to get the dog until the following year. But there again, it's likely they have a match for you so if you wait a year you will obviously receive a different dog then TSE had intended for you to receive. Good luck!!! Hope Paulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Quick Question > In my opinion, I think you should go to the class this summer. Not > only are you going to get used to having a dog, but you will be able > to learn together. I think it's better when people get dog guides > before college simply because when they go for their college > orintation, they're both sharing the experience, and the both of them > are on the same page. Good luck man, and if you decide to get your dog > now or later, I hope for the best. They're great animals. > > On 4/23/11, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >> Hi all. This is Mark with a quick question. Feel free to respond either >> on >> or off list. I will be attending college at Suffolk University as a >> freshman >> in Boston this September. I have been accepted to attend the Seeing Eye >> July >> class. My question is, should I get a dog now, or should I defer it for a >> year and go to the training the summer before soft more year. I can see >> the >> merits of both, and just curious as to your thoughts. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 23 20:24:29 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:24:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <3794E904D91A45E8BD3855ED14F4B0D8@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> <3794E904D91A45E8BD3855ED14F4B0D8@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: RJ, It depends on the article. If it had a lot of weird technical or foreign words, I may have insisted on brailling. But if not, I would just hire a reader to do the reading; they can help you skim an article and for research this is very helpful. Either way, I would be real mad about their attitude. Maybe writing a letter to educate them on the uses and acceptance of braille would be good. Braille is not obselete and I am really sick of professionals feeling it is. Scanners cannot replace braille. Nothing like reading the material vs hearing it with a scanner which makes mistakes. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 10:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question When I was in university for my undergraduate studies, I asked disability student services to Braille an article I had to read for a research paper to which they responded, "You can scan the article," "I'm a Braille reader," I said. "You should have been taught how to use a scanner, because you're behind. Braille is becoming obsolete anyway!" What do you think I should have done? At the time I didn't know my rights. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question > George: > > There are a whole slew of blind folks (including yours truly) who do not > own > scanners and scanning software. I realize I'll be flamed for this but one > can pay for a lot of reader time for what one must invest into scanning > hardware/software for what is, in my estimation, an imperfect instrument > at > best. > > Some things just require money; that's the way the world works. > > I wouldn't worry about it at this point. You might need a scanner and OCR > software when you're in college although I am of the opinion that far too > many college students use them far too much when using a live reader would > be more efficient. At any rate, in college your rehab agency would be > more > inclined to purchase the requisite software/hardware for you. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:29 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] technology question > > Hi NABsters: > As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device > lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan > anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd > have > to do on my own), > and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. > Here's my issue though: > My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still > with > the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, > but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. > What can I do? > > I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know > they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing > anything either. > What can I do? > I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net Sat Apr 23 20:30:05 2011 From: bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net (Bernadetta Pracon) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:30:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Quick Question Message-ID: <20110423203005.21446.17069@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Hi mark, I got my Seeing Eye dog the year before I attended college, so that was a bit different; I attended a college in an urban environment--a college in Boston, as a matter of fact. I know that most people would advise against getting your dog before your freshman year, but I say go for it. Here's why: It might be easier for you to learn how to navigate your new environment with a dog from the very beginning, as opposed to a cane. I say that because I personally find it easier to use the T with a dog versus a cane. I also find that it's easier to navigate boston traffic (crossing streets and such) with a dog. It might be different for you, but if TSE accepted you already, they most likely feel they have a good match for you, and that match is not likely to be around a year from July. You'll have a month to bond with the dog before college starts, and while that's certainly not a year, you're still not going to campus a few days after you gradduate with your dog. You'll have a chance to establish a bit of a bond by then, and the prospect of the both of you learning a new environment together as well as getting used to each other doesn't have to be a daunting one. It all depends on how responsible you are and how well you adjust to change; And I'm assuming you are responsible enough, since TSE determined so by accepting you. Another factor to keep in mind no matter how minor it may be is, your new friends in college will get used to you having a dog right away if you train with him/her the summer before your freshman year. Right away, you'll find out which people are accepting of being around a dog and which people would rather not associate with a person who has one. I know this might sound harsh or maybe even somewhat ignorant, but it's realistic and no one else brought it up yet. Some people might want to hang out with you when you're just Mark who uses a cane, but think differently of it when you have a dog. Sufficed to say, those people are probably not worth your time anyway, but it's better to find out right away,and forge bonds with people who will make better friends. All in all, as long as you don't let your dog go anywhere unsupervised (that in my oppinion would be a big mistake especially in the middle of a city), and you take some time every day to bond with your dog in your dorm and practice obedience regularly, you should be fine. That's just my rambling two cents, for what it's worth. Anyway, I have worked a seeing eye dog in Boston for years now, so if you have any questions or need some advice etc., you're more than welcome to get in touch off list. Also, coincidentally, I'm scheduled to go to TSE in July for my next dog as well, so if you do decide to go, see you there. Good luck! Bernadetta -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 23 20:34:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:34:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: <1279FBC08D944940BD3B9065E0AAD783@OwnerPC> Mike, It depends on the subject; sometimes scanners are faster; sometimes readers are faster/efficient for material. For instance if I have a book/article with lots of font changes or tables my screen reader cannot explain the layout and content to me. A reader works better. Electronic text may work better for a story though that is more straight forward text. Most rehab agencies will pay for OCR software; but most will also pay for readers too. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Mike Freeman Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:14 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question George: There are a whole slew of blind folks (including yours truly) who do not own scanners and scanning software. I realize I'll be flamed for this but one can pay for a lot of reader time for what one must invest into scanning hardware/software for what is, in my estimation, an imperfect instrument at best. Some things just require money; that's the way the world works. I wouldn't worry about it at this point. You might need a scanner and OCR software when you're in college although I am of the opinion that far too many college students use them far too much when using a live reader would be more efficient. At any rate, in college your rehab agency would be more inclined to purchase the requisite software/hardware for you. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:29 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Hi NABsters: As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd have to do on my own), and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. Here's my issue though: My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still with the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. What can I do? I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing anything either. What can I do? I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. Thanks for any advice. Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From itamar_orgad at mba.berkeley.edu Sat Apr 23 20:39:53 2011 From: itamar_orgad at mba.berkeley.edu (itamar orgad) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:39:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Assistive Technology Survey - your help is needed Message-ID: Hi there, My name is Itamar Orgad, MBA student at UC Berkeley. I represent a group of 5 students from UC Berkeley, three engineers and two business students. We are working on a revolutionary technology for assisting the blind and visually impaired. We are trying to develop a new product based on sensors and robotics technology that would support everyday navigation, obstacle detection and object recognition. The product is aimed to provide greater autonomy and support for the blind community. I would like to ask your help with distributing the following SURVEY LINK through Fred's Head Twitter feed. The survey is designed to help us to better understand the specific needs and pain points and will impact the product design as well as help us determine its business viability. Thanks, Itamar Orgad -- Itamar Orgad MBA Candidate 2012 Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley Mobile: 510.847.1413 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Apr 23 20:52:10 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 15:52:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology Message-ID: Hi, it's joshua Lester. I need some advice. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. Which one would be better? Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never worked with one. I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille instructor let me work with one. Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. Thanks, Joshua From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 23 22:08:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 18:08:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38175D9A90634EA1AF3E96677891082C@OwnerPC> Personal preference; see a demo and try it out; best to decide for yourself. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:52 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology Hi, it's joshua Lester. I need some advice. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. Which one would be better? Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never worked with one. I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille instructor let me work with one. Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Apr 23 22:42:55 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 17:42:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <38175D9A90634EA1AF3E96677891082C@OwnerPC> References: <38175D9A90634EA1AF3E96677891082C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I tried to go to a demo, last year, but my former instructor wanted to do something else. I'll be alone, this year, so I'll go to the demo. Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Personal preference; see a demo and try it out; best to decide for yourself. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:52 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > Hi, it's joshua Lester. > I need some advice. > I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. > Which one would be better? > Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never > worked with one. > I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille > instructor let me work with one. > Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? > I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kramc11 at gmail.com Sat Apr 23 22:45:12 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 18:45:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Quick Question References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: <7A6E3D3DA2E04976AFB174D5576610CB@cadiganpc> Another email ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Quick Question > In my opinion, I think you should go to the class this summer. Not > only are you going to get used to having a dog, but you will be able > to learn together. I think it's better when people get dog guides > before college simply because when they go for their college > orintation, they're both sharing the experience, and the both of them > are on the same page. Good luck man, and if you decide to get your dog > now or later, I hope for the best. They're great animals. > From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 00:29:17 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 20:29:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams Message-ID: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Hey NABS, I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? Thanks! Jordyn From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Sun Apr 24 00:38:55 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 19:38:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Need Advice: Accessible Planners In-Reply-To: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> References: <4F6E2F822FCE4680A02D00D5B78D272F@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: HI, I have had the opportunity to use one or most of these devices in terms of calendar functions. I would think that the decision would come down to cost and portability. I have an iPhone and really like it, but I know other people who have tried it and aren't really all that impressed or are frustrated with it. Take care, and if you have further questions, feel free to write me off list. Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From kramc11 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 01:13:09 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:13:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am working on the same thing at Suffolk University. As an incoming freshman I will be required to take the math placement exam. I was over there this week talking to the disability office, and they told me that accommodations will be in place for the math placement exam. PS. Ware will you be going to college? Mark J. Cadigan MassABS Secretary Kramc11 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > Hey NABS, > I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement > exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I > request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on > those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking > this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? > Thanks! > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 01:19:57 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:19:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DB37ABD.2070804@gmail.com> Thanks for that. Did you have to register with the office first? Do you have to have yours done by like May 11? Do you know if they're a lot of graphs? I hope not!!! What accommodations did you get? I'm going to Michigan State I believe and I want to major in computer science and want a degree in computer software engineering. On 4/23/2011 9:13 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > I am working on the same thing at Suffolk University. As an incoming > freshman I will be required to take the math placement exam. I was > over there this week talking to the disability office, and they told > me that accommodations will be in place for the math placement exam. > > > > PS. Ware will you be going to college? > > > Mark J. Cadigan > MassABS Secretary > Kramc11 at gmail.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > > >> Hey NABS, >> I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math >> placement exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the >> exam, can I request extra time or something? Will colleges make >> accommodations on those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra >> time, any tips on taking this math exam not about the math itself but >> about like using the system? >> Thanks! >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > From trising at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 24 01:24:35 2011 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:24:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology References: Message-ID: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can also edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. Terri Wilcox -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From hope.paulos at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 01:34:21 2011 From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:34:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <09089C1C198647DFA6659407A6135C04@Espy> If you call the DSS office ahead of time you should be ok to request more time and whatever accommodations you may need. I did this when I was applying for my undergrad degree and had a reader and extra time. Hope this helps. Hope Paulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > Hey NABS, > I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement > exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I > request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on > those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking > this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? > Thanks! > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 01:36:33 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:36:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Engineering Questions References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> <4DB37ABD.2070804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E0CDD4F865F455DB676174319E732CD@cadiganpc> I am looking for someone who is a blind electrical engineer, I am accepted to the electrical engineering program at Suffolk University and I am looking for tips tools and suggestions for some of the visual components of the coursework. Thanks, Mark J. Cadigan Kramc11 at gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 01:52:09 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 18:52:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Engineering Questions In-Reply-To: <7E0CDD4F865F455DB676174319E732CD@cadiganpc> References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> <4DB37ABD.2070804@gmail.com> <7E0CDD4F865F455DB676174319E732CD@cadiganpc> Message-ID: <001d01cc0222$398e6a40$acab3ec0$@panix.com> Write to John Miller, head of the Science and Engineering division of NFB. He is an electrical engineer. So are Lloyd Rasmussen and Curtis Willoughby. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Engineering Questions I am looking for someone who is a blind electrical engineer, I am accepted to the electrical engineering program at Suffolk University and I am looking for tips tools and suggestions for some of the visual components of the coursework. Thanks, Mark J. Cadigan Kramc11 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 02:22:05 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:22:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: <09089C1C198647DFA6659407A6135C04@Espy> References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> <09089C1C198647DFA6659407A6135C04@Espy> Message-ID: <4DB3894D.2030706@gmail.com> The only thing is, this exam is online, with a system like blackboard uses for taking tests so I don't know. Does it still work the same way? On 4/23/2011 9:34 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: > If you call the DSS office ahead of time you should be ok to request > more time and whatever accommodations you may need. I did this when I > was applying for my undergrad degree and had a reader and extra time. > Hope this helps. > Hope Paulos > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > > >> Hey NABS, >> I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math >> placement exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the >> exam, can I request extra time or something? Will colleges make >> accommodations on those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra >> time, any tips on taking this math exam not about the math itself but >> about like using the system? >> Thanks! >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 02:28:57 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 19:28:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com><09089C1C198647DFA6659407A6135C04@Espy> <4DB3894D.2030706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26D132F6938F4B509DC28F59965351C5@stanford.edu> You need to somehow verify ahead of time that the system is accessible with whatever screen reader you use. If not, or there is no way to check ahead of time, you should get a reader. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > The only thing is, this exam is online, with a system like blackboard uses > for taking tests so I don't know. Does it still work the same way? > On 4/23/2011 9:34 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: >> If you call the DSS office ahead of time you should be ok to request more >> time and whatever accommodations you may need. I did this when I was >> applying for my undergrad degree and had a reader and extra time. >> Hope this helps. >> Hope Paulos >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams >> >> >>> Hey NABS, >>> I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement >>> exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I >>> request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on >>> those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking >>> this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the >>> system? >>> Thanks! >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 03:08:41 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:08:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted In-Reply-To: <20110423055824.24979.23957@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> References: <20110423055824.24979.23957@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Jedi, For someone who claims very little knowledge of the inner workings of the other blind cultures outside the NFB and the consumer-trained blind professionals, is it fair for you to say those cultures do not have such and such elements? (I know many unaffiliated blind who value equal integration in the sighted world and say it's respectable to be blind, I know some professionally-trained o&m instructors who utilize structured discovery, etc) I think, although your analysis is technicly valid, there is a danger in over generalizing and putting people in one group or another. I'm honestly not sure which one of your classes I'd fit in to- NFB? Unaffiliated blind? I certainly share some of the cultural factors that, in my mind, define the traditional blindness professional culture. (not all, some) And...*gasp* from what little I know of the Council, I identify with some of their cultural characteristics as well. So what am I? An unaffiliated Federationist traditional Council member? Best, Kirt On 4/22/11, Jedi wrote: > Yep, it's the cultural implications of black skin. And yes, i am a > strong proponent of the concept of blind culture. But before you kill > me on that one *grin* let me try to explain why I think there is "blind > culture." > > Culture is a lot more than just language and geographic location. It's > a lot more than just religion (for example) or art work. It's all of > the above. Cultures are greater than the sum of their parts and consist > of a shared set of beliefs, values, items, ways of doing things, and > experiences that get transmitted from one generation to the next. Not > all cultures have the same characteristics. for example, American > culture isn't based purely on one religion, but it could be argued that > some Middle Eastern countries have cultures that are. > > When it comes to blind culture, I think there are lots of them that > share a lot of similar things. I think every country has its own blind > cultures, and i'm pretty sure the U.S. has at least four, maybe even > five. I make these distinctions based on each culture's beliefs, > traditions, values, assumptions, artifacts, and even some linguistic > differences. Yes, these cultures specifically relate to blindness, but > I believe that they influence other aspects of our lives without us > even being aware of it, especially since we live in a society that says > blindness is such a huge factor in our lives. > > So here is my cultural taxonomy for the U.S. > > There's the NFB, the ACB, the unaffiliated blind, traditionally-trained > professionals serving the blind, and consumer-based professionals > serving the blind. > > I can't really comment too much on the ACB nor the unaffiliated blind > because I am part of neither culture nor have I had the ability to > study it. I can't really even say much about traditionall-trained > professionals because I'm still in the process of studying their > culture and because I'm not a part of it. But i do feel qualified to > comment on NFB culture and consumer-based professional culture (which > is pretty well the same thing but with a slight twist). > > I said that culture is defined as a set of values, assumptions, and > artifacts, traditions, etc. So to make it short, I'll list a couple of > things that I think can be listed for the NFB under each category. I've > gone into these categories before elsewhere on list, so I won't put > people through it again. > > Artifacts (things cultures use like language, art, things, symbols, > etc): our characteristic long cane, the Whozit, the old NFB seal, our > NFB songs, our catch phrases (It's respectable to be blind), our > jargain, the national convention and the traditional activities in it > like the mock trial, the LCB play, and the banquet speech, and our > extremely timely agendas. > > Values (things we think are important): timeliness, independence, > neatness, love, togetherness, collective action, confidence, > competence, leadership, literacy, innovation, and justice > > Assumptions (these complete the phrase "of course..."): blindness is > respectable, the blind can be independent, the blind should be > integrated into society, the sighted should join us, but they shouldn't > determine our destiny, we should take care of each other and help each > other out whenever possible, we should take care of our space (the > national center for example) > > You won't find a lot of these in any other blindness culture here in the > U.S. > > And what about the issue of blind people integrating into society and > this concept of blind culture? Funnily enough, it's one aspect of our > blindness culture in the NFB that makes this argument possible to begin > with. We share many cultural elements in common with the sighted since > we are a cross-section of society at large; but we've also taken great > pains to do what the sighted do in a number of areas such as social > skills (for example). Our belief in inegration to the extent that it > exists is something unique to our blind culture here in the NFB and > that's why we can argue that the blind should not isolate themselves > from sighted society because we are part of society and should be part > of society. But here's the thing. You can belong to several cultures at > once; it's called intersectionality. for instance, you can be Latino > and still be an American. You can be culturally Deaf and be engaged in > the local LGBT culture. You can be a member of the NFB culture and be > just as a part of the greater sighted American culture. Some of these > cultural identities share commonalities and sometimes they clash. In > the NFB, we have both similarities with our sighted culture aspects and > some horrible clashes, too. that's just the nature of being human and > having multiple identities int the same body. > > I'm off my soap box now. *grin* > > Respectfully Submitted > Original message: >> Jedi: > >> Well done. I appreciate a thoughtful post such as that below. > >> As to having black skin being part of one's identity, is it the black skin >> or the cultural nuances and preferences that traditionally have been >> supposed to go along with black skin or have been imposed upon those with >> black skin that are what contributes to the identity? > >> Mike > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:49 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > >> Mike, > >> Keeping in mind that you're asking someone who has been conditioned to >> believe that sight is inherently more convenient than non-sight, I'll >> admit >> to you that I had some difficulty in generating a list of conveniences >> associated with being blind. But for the fun of the exercise, here is a >> list >> I've generated thus far and encourage the rest of the list to come up with >> some others if so moved. > >> 1. A blind person doesn't need windows. I think Jernigan pointed this one >> out somewhere in one of his speeches. >> 2. A blind person doesn't need light. You've pointed this one out. >> 3. A blind person isn't hampered by changes in light level, including >> brightness. Though this has already been half-stated in terms of the fact >> that light is not required for a blind person to function, it's seldom >> considered how much of a problem too much light can be for the sighted. >> 4. Social customs aside, it really doesn't matter to us what color things >> are. I thought this was brilliantly illustrated in Dr. Maurer's story >> about >> his gray pancakes. >> 5. You'd be surprised what contortions the sighted will put themselves >> into >> in order to use their sight. For example, one of my profs at Tech >> explained >> how he once tried to see into a dark and cramped space in order to fix >> something; this need required him to attempt to place his hands, a >> flashlight, and his head into this cramped space. He then realized that if >> he'd thought about doing the task non-visually, he would have only needed >> to >> put his hands into the space thus being much more comfortable. >> 6. Blind people don't need mirrors. I don't know about the rest of you, >> but >> I consider this a major convenience. > >> All of these are quite trivial and don't fundamentally change the way a >> blind person functions in the sighted world. But at the same time, the >> conveniences associated with sight don't fundamentally impact the way they >> function either. I think Jernigan pointed out that the ability to see >> someone down the street is a convenience, but not a major part to >> functioning. He pointed out instead that the real convenience of sight >> comes >> from the fact that life is structured for the sighted just as you did. Now >> that is a convenience, but so is learning to do things non-visually. Sure, >> a >> sighted person can learn to do these things, but they often don't because >> they think the way they do things visually is more efficient. > >> As to your other question about blindness, and identity, I think it is >> possible to think of blindness as just a characteristic and also think of >> it >> as a fundamental part of one's identity in the same way that black skin is >> a >> characteristic and is thought of as fundamental to one's identity. Does >> that >> make sense? > >> Original message: >>> Jedi: > >>> How so? What conveniences are inherently associated with being blind? >>> Yes, we can function in the dark but so can anyone else who does it for a >> while. >>> Ask any marine who's had to field-strip, clean and put back together >>> his/her weapon in thirty seconds in the dark! > >>> Also, this whole analysis has some logical flaws. Some of us >>> (including >>> you) say that we wouldn't want to be sighted, either because being >>> blind is who we are or because we presume we would have to make >>> adjustments. But Arielle's Magic Pill would, presumably, >>> automagically make all those adjustments for us so the operative >>> question would be: "If you didn't have to do anything outside of >>> sucking down a pill to become sighted with all its attributes and >>> knowledge outside of learning some skills like reading and driving, >>> would you take the pill?" In that sense, my answer would be yes, if only >> because the world is structured for the sighted. > >>> And the only permanent thing is change and I contend that our >>> identities are constantly changing and that if we truly believe in NFB >>> philosophy, we wouldn't single blindness out as somehow inherently >>> different from other characteristics. Hence, to my way of thinking, >>> as long as there were no great inconveniences other than learning a >>> few skills to gaining sight, it would be rather dense of us not to take >> the chance. > >>> But it ain'ta a-gonna happen in my lifetime, especially as my brain >>> has already been rewired. > >>> Mike > > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Jedi >>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 1:01 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > >>> Well, my gut reaction would be to say no only because becoming blind >>> usually means that there's some kind of injury taking place or some >>> kind of illness causing it. But to deconstruct that narrative, is >>> injury required to become blind? If it were a magic pill, no. The >>> scenario would be the same as the magic sight pill except that >>> blindness is considered by society as a bad thing and sight a good >>> thing; and I'm just as guilty of that perception because I'm a part of >>> society. More than that, I'm prone to the notion that sight makes one >>> fundamentally more functional than a blind person. It is true that our >>> world is structured for people who can see and there are some >>> conveniences associated with sight, but there are conveniences >>> associated with being blind and there's nothing stopping us from >>> rearranging our society to suit everyone regardless of personal >>> characteristics except our lack of imagination and willingness to do >>> so. To apply some further deconstruction here, injury may be required >>> to restore sight to a blind person. So logically and with negative >>> blindness attitudes put aside, giving someone blindness is the same as >>> giving someone sight. In both cases, the individual will have to >>> relearn the new system of being and will have to get used to the >>> change in functioning and any perceived changes in identity. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi > >>> Original message: >>>> Here's just another interesting idea to bounce around. If it is >>>> reasonable to turn down the opportunity to see, even if it's a "magic >>>> pill" scenario like in Arielle's research, do we feel it would be >>>> equally acceptable for >>> a >>>> sighted person to choose to make themselves blind, because, for what >>>> ever reason, they feel they'd be happiest and most themselves as blind >> people? > >>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jedi >>>> wrote: > >>>>> For me, blindness is a part of who I am. it has shaped my life in a >>> number >>>>> of ways ranging from the friendships and relationships I've had to >>>>> the career I've chosen. Though this may not be true for everyone, >>>>> it's >>> certainly >>>>> true for me and I'd feel like I've lost an important part of who I >>>>> am, >>> and >>>>> that loss would far outweigh any gain I receive through sight. > >>>>> What scares me the most about medicine and sightedness is the >>>>> possibility that governments will require all of us to undergo such >>>>> procedures rather than allowing us the ability to be blind in a >>>>> sighted world. In other >>> words, >>>>> the government or the world at large would think it's much easier >>>>> and >>> more >>>>> reasonable to cure us rather than make a world that's usable for >>>>> everyone regardless of characteristics. > >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi > > >>>>> Original message: > >>>>> Jorge and Homberto, >>>>>> I feel the same way. I'm very curious to see what sight is like, >>>>>> I wonder about it sometimes. I'd even go as far as saying I >>>>>> sometimes would like to see...but if the option were available, the >>>>>> tedium of relearning everything, not to mention the risk of the >>>>>> surgery for something I don't really need, more than balance out >>>>>> any wish I have to see. But, should a blind friend choose >>>>>> differently and receive sight, I would totally understand, respect and >> support that decision. >>>>>> And it wouldn't change the friendship on my end, although it would >>>>>> spark some interesting conversations. >>>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>>> Kirt > > >>>>> On 4/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>>>>> Hombertu, >>>>>>> I agree. >>>>>>> I personally wouldn't choose to be sighted for one simple reason. >>>>>>> I've learned everything without sight. >>>>>>> If I regained sight I'd have to relearn everything. >>>>>>> Sure I had sight but lost it when I was so young I can't remember, >>>>>>> so really I can say I've been blind all my life, and sight would >>>>>>> just make it too difficult. > > >>>>> Jorge > > > >>>>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 8:55 PM, humberto wrote: > > >>>>> First of all, If I was to become sighted, I would not do it. I >>>>> myself >>>>>>>> wouldn't want to become sighted because of 2 reasons: >>>>>>>> 1. since I am blind since birth, I will feel so weird being >>>>>>>> sighted; just like a sighted person had been born with sight and >>>>>>>> feeling weird when they become blind. The world would be so >>>>>>>> different and I cannot even explain how different since I've >>>>>>>> never ever been sighted, and don't >>> want >>>>>>>> to be. >>>>>>>> 2. I am blind, I am the way I am and I still want to be blind >>>>>>>> since I am born blind. Blindness is just an ordinary thing for >>>>>>>> me. Even my mom >>> has >>>>>>>> gotten me to pray and get me to ask doctors if one day I will "see" >>> but >>>>>>>> that was when I was little, and looking back, I am so * GUILTY * >>>>>>>> that >>> my >>>>>>>> mom did this and told me that I will see soon in a quite >>>>>>>> convincing >>> way >>>>>>>> and now I think, and since coming to the United States and >>>>>>>> attending >>> NFB >>>>>>>> related camps and meetings such as the NFB youth Slam, I see my >>>>>>>> own philosophy of blindness, which is that blindness is something >>>>>>>> ordinary and normal and nothing to be neglected or regretted >>>>>>>> about. >>>>>>>> Just my 20 dollars for what it's worth, and, great question. > > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: Jamie Principato >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:56:20 -0400 >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] When a loved one goes sighted > > >>>>> Hi, all. > > >>>>> I was thinking recently about all of those "what to do what a > >>>>>>>> loved one goes > >>>>>>>>> blind" articles and pamphlets I've seen, and how often I hear > >>>>>>>> people talk > >>>>>>>>> about the reactions of friends and family and their community > >>>>>>>> when they lost > >>>>>>>>> their vision. I think there have even been comments on this list > >>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>> sighted friends for some reason thinking they have to treat us > >>>>>>>> differently, > >>>>>>>>> or can't relate to us as well because we're blind. > > >>>>> My question is this. How do you think the blind would respond in > >>>>>>>> similar > >>>>>>>>> situations, say, if a friend among a netork of fellow blind > >>>>>>>> students > >>>>>>>>> suddenly went sighted? As medical technology advances rapidly, >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>> becoming more and more possible to correct a number of causes of > >>>>>>>> both > >>>>>>>>> congenital and later onset blindness. I know there are different > >>>>>>>> opinions on > >>>>>>>>> matters like this in other disability groups, and the question > >>>>>>>> really got me > >>>>>>>>> thinking. > > >>>>> I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts! > > >>>>> -Jamie >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info > >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humberto >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjo >>> rgepae >>> z%40gmail.com > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude >>> %40gma >>> il.com > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% >>> 40samo >>> bile.net > > >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%4 >>> 0gmail >>> .com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% >>> 40samo >>> bile.net > >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 03:23:19 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:23:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: Joshua, The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are more comfortable with it. However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. All the best, Kirt On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can also > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > Terri Wilcox > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 03:25:53 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:25:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <38175D9A90634EA1AF3E96677891082C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <63D84FF203D945A0950514F734445CCC@OwnerPC> Hi Joshua, I have the BrailleNote version before the Apex. It’s a great tool. It has many tools built in including a calculator, book reader to read NLS web braille etc, phone book, and email capability. I think the PacMate may have more ability to interface with the computer though. But I've always enjoyed the BrailleNote M'power. I'd get the Apex, but the rehab agency doesn't fund upgrades. It depends on what you want out of the notetaker; both machines have ton of file space, calendars, email, a web browser, ability to read braille books, and MP3 playing ability I think. I know the BrailleNote has a FM radio and can play MP3 files; I think PacMate can too. So there are many similarities. Hope you get to try both out as this is the best way to help you decide. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology I tried to go to a demo, last year, but my former instructor wanted to do something else. I'll be alone, this year, so I'll go to the demo. Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Personal preference; see a demo and try it out; best to decide for > yourself. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:52 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > Hi, it's joshua Lester. > I need some advice. > I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. > Which one would be better? > Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never > worked with one. > I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille > instructor let me work with one. > Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? > I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Apr 24 03:26:11 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:26:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? Thanks, Joshua On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest > up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are > more comfortable with it. > However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's > a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically > everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on > the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is > no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier > machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still > miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is > just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry > around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after > looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >> also >> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very >> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 03:29:37 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:29:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: <26D132F6938F4B509DC28F59965351C5@stanford.edu> References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> <09089C1C198647DFA6659407A6135C04@Espy> <4DB3894D.2030706@gmail.com> <26D132F6938F4B509DC28F59965351C5@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Jordan, I'd say lobby for the same, or similar accomodations you used in High School for math. Math, by its nature, seems like it would be hard to do with a screen reader. (at least I can't imagine like advanced algebra, geometry, calculus and the like being readable by Jaws- someone correct me if I'm wrong) If you used braille in high school, see if you can get a reader to read you the problems so you can transcribe them into braille and work them out, then dictate your answer back to the reader. Or, if you're comfortable with doing math another way, try and adapt that to the online exam as much as possible because it's best to work with a system you already have in place instead of trying to make something new. Just my two cents, hope that helps, Kirt On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > You need to somehow verify ahead of time that the system is accessible with > whatever screen reader you use. If not, or there is no way to check ahead of > time, you should get a reader. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > > >> The only thing is, this exam is online, with a system like blackboard uses >> >> for taking tests so I don't know. Does it still work the same way? >> On 4/23/2011 9:34 PM, Hope Paulos wrote: >>> If you call the DSS office ahead of time you should be ok to request more >>> >>> time and whatever accommodations you may need. I did this when I was >>> applying for my undergrad degree and had a reader and extra time. >>> Hope this helps. >>> Hope Paulos >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams >>> >>> >>>> Hey NABS, >>>> I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement >>>> exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I >>>> request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on >>>> those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking >>>> >>>> this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the >>>> system? >>>> Thanks! >>>> Jordyn >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Apr 24 03:33:58 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:33:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <63D84FF203D945A0950514F734445CCC@OwnerPC> References: <38175D9A90634EA1AF3E96677891082C@OwnerPC> <63D84FF203D945A0950514F734445CCC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Thanks. I can't wait to try them out, at convention! Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Joshua, > I have the BrailleNote version before the Apex. It’s a great tool. It has > many tools built in including a calculator, book reader to read NLS web > braille etc, phone book, and email capability. I think the PacMate may have > more ability to interface with the computer though. > But I've always enjoyed the BrailleNote M'power. I'd get the Apex, but the > rehab agency doesn't fund upgrades. > It depends on what you want out of the notetaker; both machines have ton of > file space, calendars, email, a web browser, ability to read braille books, > and MP3 playing ability I think. > I know the BrailleNote has a FM radio and can play MP3 files; I think > PacMate can too. So there are many similarities. > Hope you get to try both out as this is the best way to help you decide. > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > I tried to go to a demo, last year, but my former instructor wanted to > do something else. > I'll be alone, this year, so I'll go to the demo. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Personal preference; see a demo and try it out; best to decide for >> yourself. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:52 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> >> Hi, it's joshua Lester. >> I need some advice. >> I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. >> Which one would be better? >> Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never >> worked with one. >> I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille >> instructor let me work with one. >> Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? >> I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 03:43:21 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:43:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gordyn, When I entered college I took a math placement test. Back then in 2002, it was regular paper and pencil. How I did it was I just used my vision. A reader read the questions to me and I used paper and a dark marker to write out and work the questions. I think totally blind students were permitted to have a brailler to do the problems. But now a days they have computer placement tests. Your college should accommodate you with extra time and other accomodations. If its on the computer, jaws may not read it right. You might want to have a reader read out the questions. If you use nemeth braille, then transcribe the questions to braille and answer the problems. Tell the reader what answer you got. If it was a hard copy test, they could make tactile graphs. But again computers present more accessibility challenges because many software programs are not compatable to jaws. Bring something like tape to make tactile graphs. Your reader can describe the graphs and tables and tactially draw the graphs if needed. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams Hey NABS, I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? Thanks! Jordyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 03:47:57 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 20:47:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the same ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) regardless of where you get one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >> more comfortable with it. >> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>> also >>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>> very >>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>> >>> The Professional version does not have this message >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 03:48:52 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:48:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: <0BAAC036DA6941CEA96D2002C3F38B0D@OwnerPC> Kirt, True, I saw a Apex and everything you do on the Mpower you can do on the Apex. The braille keys and display are the same. What d o you mean the pacMate is behind in technology? Freedom Scientific is no longer updating the PacMate? Really? When was the last version? Why did they stop it? Was it becoming a less popular product or maybe they have a new product coming out? Yes the Braille Note is less bulky and easier to carry around; its slightly smaller. That is one reason I opted for the Braille Note. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 11:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Joshua, The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are more comfortable with it. However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. All the best, Kirt On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can > also > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > Terri Wilcox > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 03:50:35 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:50:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: <31442715B45B4C62B2E965525AE91F4F@OwnerPC> Check the braille Monitor for some used technology. They sell at less prices. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 11:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? Thanks, Joshua On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest > up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are > more comfortable with it. > However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's > a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically > everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on > the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is > no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier > machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still > miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is > just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry > around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after > looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >> also >> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very >> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 03:59:19 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 20:59:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <0BAAC036DA6941CEA96D2002C3F38B0D@OwnerPC> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <0BAAC036DA6941CEA96D2002C3F38B0D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <003c01cc0233$fd8792d0$f896b870$@panix.com> The PacMate is definitely not behind in technology; I've heard it argued that all dedicated note-takers (including the Apex) are passé in that everyone will be going to iPhones with Braille displays soon. I don't know that I'd go that far but it's an interesting thought. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Kirt, True, I saw a Apex and everything you do on the Mpower you can do on the Apex. The braille keys and display are the same. What d o you mean the pacMate is behind in technology? Freedom Scientific is no longer updating the PacMate? Really? When was the last version? Why did they stop it? Was it becoming a less popular product or maybe they have a new product coming out? Yes the Braille Note is less bulky and easier to carry around; its slightly smaller. That is one reason I opted for the Braille Note. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 11:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Joshua, The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are more comfortable with it. However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. All the best, Kirt On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can > also > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > Terri Wilcox > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 04:00:57 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:00:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <003d01cc0234$379972e0$a6cc58a0$@panix.com> Uh, shouldn't you be adding an extra zero in there, i.e., $2,000.00 for one without display, $4,000.00 for an 18-cel display and $6,000.00 for a 32-cell display? (grin) Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the same ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) regardless of where you get one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >> more comfortable with it. >> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>> also >>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>> very >>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>> >>> The Professional version does not have this message >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen ts.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 04:04:03 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:04:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> Message-ID: <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as does the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Joshua, The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are more comfortable with it. However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. All the best, Kirt On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can also > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > Terri Wilcox > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 04:08:34 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:08:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey, when I was an incoming freshman, the test was inaccessible and on the computer. I would see if the disabilities office already has a way of accommidating blind students on placement exams, and suggest your ideas if they don't. Don't stress about it too much. It isn't possible to fail. It is a placement exam, and the worst that will happen is that you might place into college algebra instead of calc or something, but I totally understand that you want to do well and skip unnecessary classes if you can. It might be nice to request a reader. I always found readers more helpful for math subjects. I'm not sure if you have to take any others, but my foreign language placement test was online as well, but we could take it on our own time. It was also inaccessible, but my high school French teacher agreed to read it to me, so maybe you could do something like that. Cindy On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Gordyn, > When I entered college I took a math placement test. Back then in 2002, it > was regular paper and pencil. > How I did it was I just used my vision. A reader read the questions to me > and I used paper and a dark marker to write out and work the questions. > I think totally blind students were permitted to have a brailler to do the > problems. > But now a days they have computer placement tests. > Your college should accommodate you with extra time and other accomodations. > If its on the computer, jaws may not read it right. You might want to have > a reader read out the questions. If you use nemeth braille, > then transcribe the questions to braille and answer the problems. Tell the > reader what answer you got. > If it was a hard copy test, they could make tactile graphs. But again > computers present more accessibility challenges because many software > programs are not compatable to jaws. > Bring something like tape to make tactile graphs. Your reader can describe > the graphs and tables and tactially draw the graphs if needed. > > Good luck. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams > > Hey NABS, > I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement > exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I > request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on > those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking > this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? > Thanks! > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 04:16:56 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:16:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Quick Question In-Reply-To: References: <00a601cc0175$43c72db0$cb558910$@panix.com> Message-ID: <4A6AF173-6690-41A0-AC9A-5318FA015B31@gmail.com> I would definitely get the dog now. Things will be hard at the beginning in a new school with a new dog, but eventually I think you'll be glad you didn't wait. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 23, 2011, at 11:08 AM, "Mark J. Cadigan" wrote: > Hi all. This is Mark with a quick question. Feel free to respond either on or off list. I will be attending college at Suffolk University as a freshman in Boston this September. I have been accepted to attend the Seeing Eye July class. My question is, should I get a dog now, or should I defer it for a year and go to the training the summer before soft more year. I can see the merits of both, and just curious as to your thoughts. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Apr 24 04:40:52 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:40:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Why are the displays, so expensive? Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the same > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) > regardless of where you get one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>> more comfortable with it. >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>> also >>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>> very >>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>> >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>> >>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From nicolefind at juno.com Sun Apr 24 04:42:31 2011 From: nicolefind at juno.com (Findley Nicole) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:42:31 GMT Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Hello, My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th grade in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of the necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How can I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back soon. Nicole Findley ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 04:44:32 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:44:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> Message-ID: Mike, I'd respectfully disagree. The last hardware update for the PAC Mate happened...2-3 years ago, whereas the Apex came out within the last year. The Apex has bluetooth, wifi, much more internal memory than the newest PAC Mate (I think it's like 4 gigs as opposed to 128 mb), a great deal more RAM, and support (at least in theory) for newer microsoft word files. The PAC Mate is at least a year behind simply because the hardware hasn't been updated and freedom scientific stopped updating it. True, they've had some firmware updates since the Apex came out...although I'm pretty wsure Freedom Scientific's discontinued those as well. I, personally, think the PAC mate is just a little bit past its time...and, as I said, I swore by the PAC mate for years. While the software and hardware of the machine are both sound, the Apex is simply a newer unit and, as such, is a little bit ahead in the technology department. This does mean the Apex is quite a bit more expensive- it runs around 5000 dollars whereas the PAC mate, for a similar-sized braille display, runs at around 3800 or so. Respectfully, Kirt On 4/23/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as does > the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > Joshua, > The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest > up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are > more comfortable with it. > However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's > a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically > everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on > the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is > no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier > machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still > miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is > just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry > around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after > looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can > also >> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very >> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 04:44:54 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:44:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <003d01cc0234$379972e0$a6cc58a0$@panix.com> Message-ID: Lol, oops. Thanks. How embarrassing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > Uh, shouldn't you be adding an extra zero in there, i.e., $2,000.00 for > one > without display, $4,000.00 for an 18-cel display and $6,000.00 for a > 32-cell > display? (grin) > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the > same > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) > regardless of where you get one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>> more comfortable with it. >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>> also >>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>> very >>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>> >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>> >>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen > ts.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 04:46:40 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:46:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > Why are the displays, so expensive? > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the >> same >> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) >> regardless of where you get one. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> >> >>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>>> more comfortable with it. >>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>>> also >>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>>> very >>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>>> >>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>>> >>>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Apr 24 04:54:55 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:54:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> References: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Nicole, first of all, welcome to the list. I'm Joshua Lester. This is archived on the www.nfbnet.org, Website. I don't know, about disecting, because my Biology instructor in high school, let me skip out on it. I don't think, that there's a way for you to see the different parts, (if you're totally blind.) Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, Findley Nicole wrote: > Hello, > My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th grade > in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My > question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are > visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of the > necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old > visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How can > I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really > appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back soon. > Nicole Findley > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! > http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 05:08:30 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:08:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) References: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <078685826C5F4608A22B5DE41F47FF3A@stanford.edu> Unfortunately, this is true. For most of the dissections in my classes, I just had the other students describe it to me. Once, I got lucky when there was a model of a frog dissection that I could feel. If it is really important that you know the information, perhaps someone could construct a model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > Nicole, first of all, welcome to the list. > I'm Joshua Lester. > This is archived on the www.nfbnet.org, Website. > I don't know, about disecting, because my Biology instructor in high > school, let me skip out on it. > I don't think, that there's a way for you to see the different parts, > (if you're totally blind.) > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, Findley Nicole wrote: >> Hello, >> My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th >> grade >> in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My >> question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are >> visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of >> the >> necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old >> visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How >> can >> I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really >> appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back soon. >> Nicole Findley >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! >> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 05:10:42 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:10:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Mike, The omni is what I was refering to- it's 2 to 3 years old, where the Apex was released within the last year. It doesn't have wifi or bluetooth built in. The Omni's been out for quite a bit longer than the Apex, and it definitely shows. (speaking from experience, both as a user of the PAC Mate Omni and the Apex, the Apex is a year or two ahead of the omni as far as keeping up with technology) Best, Kirt On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >> Why are the displays, so expensive? >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the >>> same >>> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) >>> regardless of where you get one. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >>> >>> >>>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> Joshua, >>>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>>>> more comfortable with it. >>>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>>>> also >>>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>>>> very >>>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>>>> >>>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>>>> >>>>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 05:27:24 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 01:27:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <078685826C5F4608A22B5DE41F47FF3A@stanford.edu> References: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> <078685826C5F4608A22B5DE41F47FF3A@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I don't think there is a way to post questions on the NABS website, but we all pose our questions to this list, and usually, you get a few answers. In biology, i assisted in dissecting a few animals. You could have someone guide you as you cut, and since you will wear gloves, you can always touch the different parts of the rat. I think you should try to be as involved as you can. When we dissected a star fish, we had to locate and draw different systems. I used the descriptions of the different systems in the animal that I received from my notes and the book to help me understand what the other group members were describing. And it might be helpful to have someone draw with your finger, or bring supplies to create tactile drawings of things that might be too small or intricate for you to feel all of the details. I hope that previous Youth Slam attendees answer, because those students dissected a shark, so I'm sure they have some good tips. Cindy On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Unfortunately, this is true. For most of the dissections in my classes, I > just had the other students describe it to me. Once, I got lucky when there > was a model of a frog dissection that I could feel. If it is really > important that you know the information, perhaps someone could construct a > model. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > >> Nicole, first of all, welcome to the list. >> I'm Joshua Lester. >> This is archived on the www.nfbnet.org, Website. >> I don't know, about disecting, because my Biology instructor in high >> school, let me skip out on it. >> I don't think, that there's a way for you to see the different parts, >> (if you're totally blind.) >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Findley Nicole wrote: >>> Hello, >>> My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th >>> grade >>> in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My >>> question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are >>> visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of >>> the >>> necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old >>> visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How >>> can >>> I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really >>> appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back soon. >>> Nicole Findley >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! >>> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From kobycox at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 05:57:19 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:57:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> References: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: nicole, please email me off list. my email address is kobycox at gmail.com. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 24, 2011, at 4:42 AM, "Findley Nicole" wrote: > Hello, > My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th grade in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of the necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How can I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back soon. > Nicole Findley > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! > http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 15:19:40 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:19:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> Message-ID: or me it seems to be down to the feature set. The Apex is more stable but is closed, so no new apps can be made for it unless they're made by Humanware LTD. Packmates can run almost anything that works on its version of Windows if I understand correctly. Keyboard wise I believe they both offer braille keyboards, I'm not sure about the qwerty one though. Jorge On 4/24/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Mike, > The omni is what I was refering to- it's 2 to 3 years old, where the > Apex was released within the last year. It doesn't have wifi or > bluetooth built in. The Omni's been out for quite a bit longer than > the Apex, and it definitely shows. (speaking from experience, both as > a user of the PAC Mate Omni and the Apex, the Apex is a year or two > ahead of the omni as far as keeping up with technology) > Best, > Kirt > > On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> >> >>> Why are the displays, so expensive? >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the >>>> same >>>> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell >>>> display) >>>> regardless of where you get one. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, >>>>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>>>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>>>>> more comfortable with it. >>>>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>>>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>>>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>>>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>>>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>>>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>>>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>>>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>>>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>>>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>>>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>>>>> All the best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 15:55:49 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:55:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu><0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Both machines have the option of either type of keyboard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > or me it seems to be down to the feature set. > The Apex is more stable but is closed, > so no new apps can be made for it unless they're made > by Humanware LTD. > Packmates can run almost anything that works on its version of Windows > if I understand correctly. > > Keyboard wise I believe they both offer braille keyboards, > I'm not sure about the qwerty one though. > > Jorge > > > > On 4/24/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Mike, >> The omni is what I was refering to- it's 2 to 3 years old, where the >> Apex was released within the last year. It doesn't have wifi or >> bluetooth built in. The Omni's been out for quite a bit longer than >> the Apex, and it definitely shows. (speaking from experience, both as >> a user of the PAC Mate Omni and the Apex, the Apex is a year or two >> ahead of the omni as far as keeping up with technology) >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >>> >>> >>>> Why are the displays, so expensive? >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>>> wrote: >>>>> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about >>>>> the >>>>> same >>>>> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell >>>>> display) >>>>> regardless of where you get one. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> Joshua, >>>>>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the >>>>>>> latest >>>>>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>>>>>> more comfortable with it. >>>>>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>>>>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>>>>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>>>>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I >>>>>>> still >>>>>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>>>>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>>>>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better >>>>>>> after >>>>>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>>>>>> All the best, >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>>>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>>>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>>>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>>>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>>>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>>>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>>>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 16:05:39 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:05:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <001401cc01da$427a4770$c76ed650$@com> References: <001401cc01da$427a4770$c76ed650$@com> Message-ID: Sean: There are some of us old timers here who made it through college with human readers, and other primitive tools. I agree with much of what you say, but will add that readers, OCR, digital audio books, electronic books, on-line books, etc., are all tools. The more tools you can and will use, the better your chance of success. I think people need to be flexible and use what is available, what works, and what they are comfortable. There is no perfect tool, and no universal answer for all. At 12:17 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >Speaking only for myself, I couldn't disagree more. Scanning and OCR is, for >me, vastly superior to using a human reader. Certainly readers are necessary >for some tasks, but I got through college almost exclusively by scanning and >OCRing my materials. Of course you are correct that the scans are imperfect, >but the ability to read things at over 500 words per minute, as opposed to >the maybe 200 at which a person can read aloud, makes the imperfections a >small price to pay. I think that anybody who tries to get by exclusively on >readers is putting her or himself at a distinct disadvantage. With an >electronic text, you have access to the material any time you need it. If >you use a reader, you only have direct access to whatever notes you happened >to take. When you read e-texts, you are in direct control of the information >presented and do not need to communicate your desires to another person. I >100% agree that electronic texts and OCR should not be used to the exclusion >of readers when there are reasons that make a human reader a better option, >but neither should one rely solely on readers if they wish to maximize >efficiency and have the best shot at success. > > > >Sean From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 16:16:30 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:16:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: There are many moving parts which have to be carefully manufactured as they must be durable enough to be activated hundreds of thousands of times, without failure. There are a couple potential technologies on the horizon, which may be less expensive, but nothing in the foreseeable future. Dave A cheaper refreshable braille technology has been worked on for 30 years or longer, and nothing has emerged to replace piezoelectric cells. Dave At 11:40 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >Why are the displays, so expensive? >Blessings, Joshua > >On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just > about the same > > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) > > regardless of where you get one. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > > > > >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > >> Thanks, Joshua > >> > >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>> Joshua, > >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest > >>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are > >>> more comfortable with it. > >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's > >>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically > >>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on > >>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is > >>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier > >>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still > >>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is > >>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry > >>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after > >>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > >>> All the best, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > >>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > >>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can > >>>> also > >>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > >>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I > >>>> very > >>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > >>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > >>>> > >>>> Terri Wilcox From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 16:20:13 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:20:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Kirt, you are right that Omni hardware is behind, but Humanware software also has problems, full syncing, e-mail capacity, etc. I am not sure how well Apex works on some web sites as well. There is no perfect device, just better and worse for each individual. Dave At 12:10 AM 4/24/2011, you wrote: >Mike, > The omni is what I was refering to- it's 2 to 3 years old, where the >Apex was released within the last year. It doesn't have wifi or >bluetooth built in. The Omni's been out for quite a bit longer than >the Apex, and it definitely shows. (speaking from experience, both as >a user of the PAC Mate Omni and the Apex, the Apex is a year or two >ahead of the omni as far as keeping up with technology) > Best, >Kirt > >On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > > I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > > > > >> Why are the displays, so expensive? > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >>> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the > >>> same > >>> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) > >>> regardless of where you get one. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Joshua Lester" > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > >>> > >>> > >>>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > >>>> Thanks, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>>>> Joshua, > >>>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest > >>>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are > >>>>> more comfortable with it. > >>>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's > >>>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically > >>>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on > >>>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > >>>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is > >>>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier > >>>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still > >>>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is > >>>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry > >>>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after > >>>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > >>>>> All the best, > >>>>> Kirt > >>>>> > >>>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > >>>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > >>>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > >>>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can > >>>>>> also > >>>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > >>>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I > >>>>>> very > >>>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > >>>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Terri Wilcox > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > >>>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > >>>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. > >>>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The Professional version does not have this message > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 16:21:45 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:21:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Engineering Questions In-Reply-To: <7E0CDD4F865F455DB676174319E732CD@cadiganpc> References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> <4DB37ABD.2070804@gmail.com> <7E0CDD4F865F455DB676174319E732CD@cadiganpc> Message-ID: Mike has given you some good names. You can also join the nfb in science list and ask questions there, reach John and others. The url to join is http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-science_nfbnet.org Dave At 08:36 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >I am looking for someone who is a blind electrical engineer, I am >accepted to the electrical engineering program at Suffolk University >and I am looking for tips tools and suggestions for some of the >visual components of the coursework. > > > >Thanks, > >Mark J. Cadigan >Kramc11 at gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 16:08:24 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:08:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am sure Humanware will be at convention, and can show you. The Apex is much like the Braille Note. Which depends on what you want to do, take notes, write papers, go on internet, do e-mail, chat, sync with a PC, etc. Which is better depends on your style, experience, needs, etc. There isn't a right or wrong answer. Dave At 03:52 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >Hi, it's joshua Lester. >I need some advice. >I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. >Which one would be better? >Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never >worked with one. >I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille >instructor let me work with one. >Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? >I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. >Thanks, Joshua From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 16:34:33 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:34:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Message-ID: <000001cc029d$7eb6c510$7c244f30$@com> With an electronic version of a text you can skip extraneous material as well, and you decide what is extraneous. You can navigate by sentence, paragraph, page, or read in skim mode. You can also search for particular words or phrases much more quickly than can any human. Yes, the scanning takes time, but that time is more than made up for by the ability to read the material significantly faster than you can listen to another person read it aloud. Making the process time efficient may require a quicker scanner, but those are not too difficult to come by. Also, most DSS offices will do scanning for students. I think that is fine as long as students are prepared to pick up the slack and do it ourselves if DSS falls through. Surely there are benefits to working with a reader, but the mere fact that there are some benefits doesn't make it the better choice. I don't think it should, or has to be, an either or, but if I could choose only one or the other, it would be scanning and OCR hands down. The point with which I disagree, and please correct me if this is not what you are saying, is that students would be better off forgetting about scanning and simply using readers. That is simply a less efficient approach, and takes more control out of the hands of the blind student. Sean From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 16:13:35 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:13:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> Message-ID: The Omni doesn't have a built-in wifi card. The external hardware is the same as older pac mate. There are two compact flash slots for adding stuff, memory cards, wifi, network cards etc. Dave At 11:04 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as does >the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. > >Mike > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Kirt Manwaring >Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > >Joshua, > The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >more comfortable with it. > However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > All the best, >Kirt > >On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > > technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > > as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >also > > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > > having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > > depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > > > Terri Wilcox From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 16:40:15 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 09:40:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology References: Message-ID: <566D173A20E144FF837AFBE6C211BD56@stanford.edu> Umm, did you mean to say MPower instead of BrailleNote? Unless I missed something, the Apex is a BrailleNote, just a different model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >I am sure Humanware will be at convention, and can show you. The Apex is >much like the Braille Note. > > Which depends on what you want to do, take notes, write papers, go on > internet, do e-mail, chat, sync with a PC, etc. Which is better depends > on your style, experience, needs, etc. There isn't a right or wrong > answer. > > Dave > > At 03:52 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >>Hi, it's joshua Lester. >>I need some advice. >>I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. >>Which one would be better? >>Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never >>worked with one. >>I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille >>instructor let me work with one. >>Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? >>I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. >>Thanks, Joshua > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From z.dreicer at emissives.com Sun Apr 24 16:46:12 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 10:46:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: I am in bio right now and going to go on to advanced next year. I was not allowed, 4 years ago in 7th grade, to disect a frog. So I ended up doing it at home with my mother, who obtained a replacement frog from her sister, a chem and bio teacher. Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Findley Nicole" References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> Message-ID: <002401cc02a1$b6198de0$224ca9a0$@panix.com> Right. I suspect it was a conscious decision not to put in built-in wi-fi etc. I'm not necessarily defending the PacMate; after all, I own a Braillesense Plus B32. But I think we have to distinguish between the "latest" in electronic technology and "what's in fashion" in electronic technology. By the former standard, every bit of technology we own is out-of-date virtually as soon as it's manufactured. Yet some of it isn't all *that* out-of-date unless one judges by the latter standard. If one does this, was the Braillesense Plus B32 ahead of its time with built-in wi-fi and the BrailleNote MPower behind the eight ball or is the BrailleNote Apex ahead of the pack because it has slightly more advanced hardware? Or are *both* behind the times because they aren't iPhones? In other words, Dave is right: the best technology for a person is what he/she prefers. (grin) Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:14 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology The Omni doesn't have a built-in wifi card. The external hardware is the same as older pac mate. There are two compact flash slots for adding stuff, memory cards, wifi, network cards etc. Dave At 11:04 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as >does the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. > >Mike > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring >Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > >Joshua, > The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >more comfortable with it. > However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > All the best, >Kirt > >On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece > > of technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes as > > the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >also > > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to having > > Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all depends > > on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > > > Terri Wilcox _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 17:14:54 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 10:14:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <000001cc029d$7eb6c510$7c244f30$@com> References: <000001cc029d$7eb6c510$7c244f30$@com> Message-ID: <002601cc02a3$22043e50$660cbaf0$@panix.com> Sean: I'm not saying scanners have no place. For my taste, OCr software *still* isn't sufficiently accurate to satisfy me. But that's my personal preference. Likewise, I think we have to distinguish what type of material we're dealing with: scanning works far better for literary material than it does for texts in the hard sciences although this is slowly changing. Moreover, either in this post or another, you wrote of having DSS offices do some scanning. Frankly, there were no such things when I went to college and had there been DSS offices then, I'd have stayed as far away from them as I could and would do so now were I to go back to school. Electronic searches are fine if you know more-or-less exactly what you're looking for. But there's no substitute for human intelligence and the ability to get the gist of what's on a page either by eye or by touch. And yes, I know about skim-reading. But basically what I'm talking about is not the occasional scan but when students spend *hours* ripping apart books and scanning them -- hours that could have been better spent studying something else, especially when ten minutes with a reader could elicit the required material. In this connection, it might be instructive to go back and read Peggy Elliott's Monitor articles about efficient use of readers. Bottom line is that the best solution is to use the techniques that work the best for you. But sometimes, just as when people try to make us use sight we don't have, we ourselves fall into ruts and don't use all technologies or resources (including readers) to best advantage. Cheers! Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:35 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology question With an electronic version of a text you can skip extraneous material as well, and you decide what is extraneous. You can navigate by sentence, paragraph, page, or read in skim mode. You can also search for particular words or phrases much more quickly than can any human. Yes, the scanning takes time, but that time is more than made up for by the ability to read the material significantly faster than you can listen to another person read it aloud. Making the process time efficient may require a quicker scanner, but those are not too difficult to come by. Also, most DSS offices will do scanning for students. I think that is fine as long as students are prepared to pick up the slack and do it ourselves if DSS falls through. Surely there are benefits to working with a reader, but the mere fact that there are some benefits doesn't make it the better choice. I don't think it should, or has to be, an either or, but if I could choose only one or the other, it would be scanning and OCR hands down. The point with which I disagree, and please correct me if this is not what you are saying, is that students would be better off forgetting about scanning and simply using readers. That is simply a less efficient approach, and takes more control out of the hands of the blind student. Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 17:16:43 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 10:16:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <002701cc02a3$628ffc70$27aff550$@panix.com> Also, braille displays with piezoelectric elements have to be carefully assembled by hand. The net result is that it costs something like fifty dollars a cell. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology There are many moving parts which have to be carefully manufactured as they must be durable enough to be activated hundreds of thousands of times, without failure. There are a couple potential technologies on the horizon, which may be less expensive, but nothing in the foreseeable future. Dave A cheaper refreshable braille technology has been worked on for 30 years or longer, and nothing has emerged to replace piezoelectric cells. Dave At 11:40 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >Why are the displays, so expensive? >Blessings, Joshua > >On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just > about the same > > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell > > display) regardless of where you get one. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > > > > >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > >> Thanks, Joshua > >> > >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>> Joshua, > >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the > >>> latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you > >>> if you are more comfortable with it. > >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, > >>> it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, > >>> basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do > >>> the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate > >>> is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a > >>> bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, > >>> and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the > >>> braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and > >>> it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like > >>> the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > >>> All the best, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one > >>>> piece of technology, this is the one i would have. I can take > >>>> minutes as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read > >>>> books. I can also edit minutes and other documents. I am very > >>>> partial to having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a > >>>> Secretary, so I very much prefer having Braille rather than just > >>>> Jaws. This all depends on what you are used to and what you are > >>>> familiar with. > >>>> > >>>> Terri Wilcox _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 17:57:30 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:57:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <002701cc02a3$628ffc70$27aff550$@panix.com> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <002701cc02a3$628ffc70$27aff550$@panix.com> Message-ID: Mike, Fair enough- I totally agree that indidivual preference is the most important factor to consider here. But I'm curious, what's your experience been like with the Braillesense? How is it with webbrowsing, email, etc? Is it built like a notetaker or a computer? On 4/24/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > Also, braille displays with piezoelectric elements have to be carefully > assembled by hand. The net result is that it costs something like fifty > dollars a cell. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of David Andrews > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > There are many moving parts which have to be carefully manufactured as they > must be durable enough to be activated hundreds of thousands of times, > without failure. > > There are a couple potential technologies on the horizon, which may be less > expensive, but nothing in the foreseeable future. > > Dave > > A cheaper refreshable braille technology has been worked on for 30 years or > longer, and nothing has emerged to replace piezoelectric cells. > > Dave > > At 11:40 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >>Why are the displays, so expensive? >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just >> about the same >> > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell >> > display) regardless of where you get one. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >> > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> > >> > >> >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >> >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Joshua, >> >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the >> >>> latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you >> >>> if you are more comfortable with it. >> >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, >> >>> it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, >> >>> basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do >> >>> the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate >> >>> is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a >> >>> bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, >> >>> and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the >> >>> braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and >> >>> it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like >> >>> the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> >>> All the best, >> >>> Kirt >> >>> >> >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >> >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one >> >>>> piece of technology, this is the one i would have. I can take >> >>>> minutes as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read >> >>>> books. I can also edit minutes and other documents. I am very >> >>>> partial to having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a >> >>>> Secretary, so I very much prefer having Braille rather than just >> >>>> Jaws. This all depends on what you are used to and what you are >> >>>> familiar with. >> >>>> >> >>>> Terri Wilcox > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 18:42:04 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:42:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <002701cc02a3$628ffc70$27aff550$@panix.com> Message-ID: <003b01cc02af$4f540320$edfc0960$@panix.com> Kirt: It's a note-taker -- very-much like the Apex. In fact, I might have bought an Apex except that it had not come out in the fall of 2008 when my trusty Braille Lite 2000 was stolen (along with much else) from the back-seat of my truck (it has a crew cab). The BS Plus does a pretty fair job of web pages and email, allowing one to use the web browser to biew HTML email like Office 2010 does with Windows Explorer. The BS Plus handles .DOC and .DOCX files although the most it will produce independently are .RTF files. The braille translation, although based upon Duxbury, is a bit quirkier than that of the apex or so I understand. And HIMS is doing its own U.S. marketing now so it remains to be seen what tech support will be like. AS I say, had the Apex come out in 2008, I would have bought it. The *real* question is now that the iPhone 4 is here, would I just get a portable Bluetooth braille display for it or would I again purchase a note-taker? I don't know the answer to that one. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 10:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Mike, Fair enough- I totally agree that indidivual preference is the most important factor to consider here. But I'm curious, what's your experience been like with the Braillesense? How is it with webbrowsing, email, etc? Is it built like a notetaker or a computer? On 4/24/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > Also, braille displays with piezoelectric elements have to be carefully > assembled by hand. The net result is that it costs something like fifty > dollars a cell. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of David Andrews > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > There are many moving parts which have to be carefully manufactured as they > must be durable enough to be activated hundreds of thousands of times, > without failure. > > There are a couple potential technologies on the horizon, which may be less > expensive, but nothing in the foreseeable future. > > Dave > > A cheaper refreshable braille technology has been worked on for 30 years or > longer, and nothing has emerged to replace piezoelectric cells. > > Dave > > At 11:40 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >>Why are the displays, so expensive? >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just >> about the same >> > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell >> > display) regardless of where you get one. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >> > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> > >> > >> >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >> >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Joshua, >> >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the >> >>> latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you >> >>> if you are more comfortable with it. >> >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, >> >>> it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, >> >>> basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do >> >>> the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate >> >>> is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a >> >>> bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, >> >>> and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the >> >>> braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and >> >>> it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like >> >>> the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> >>> All the best, >> >>> Kirt >> >>> >> >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >> >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one >> >>>> piece of technology, this is the one i would have. I can take >> >>>> minutes as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read >> >>>> books. I can also edit minutes and other documents. I am very >> >>>> partial to having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a >> >>>> Secretary, so I very much prefer having Braille rather than just >> >>>> Jaws. This all depends on what you are used to and what you are >> >>>> familiar with. >> >>>> >> >>>> Terri Wilcox > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 18:53:07 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:53:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <566D173A20E144FF837AFBE6C211BD56@stanford.edu> References: <566D173A20E144FF837AFBE6C211BD56@stanford.edu> Message-ID: No, I meant to say Braille Note. There was the classic, and the Mpower, and not knowing which it was, simply calling it a Braille Note was the right thing to do. Dave At 11:40 AM 4/24/2011, you wrote: >Umm, did you mean to say MPower instead of BrailleNote? Unless I >missed something, the Apex is a BrailleNote, just a different model. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:08 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >>I am sure Humanware will be at convention, and can show you. The >>Apex is much like the Braille Note. >> >>Which depends on what you want to do, take notes, write papers, go >>on internet, do e-mail, chat, sync with a PC, etc. Which is better >>depends on your style, experience, needs, etc. There isn't a right >>or wrong answer. >> >>Dave >> >>At 03:52 PM 4/23/2011, you wrote: >>>Hi, it's joshua Lester. >>>I need some advice. >>>I'm trying to decide whether to buy a Pac Mate, or a Braille Note Apex. >>>Which one would be better? >>>Noone ever demonstrated the Apex, for me in Dallas, so I've never >>>worked with one. >>>I liked the regular Braille Note, (because,) my former Braille >>>instructor let me work with one. >>>Would someone be willing to show me how it works, at convention this year? >>>I'll let you know, ahead of time, if i'll be able to attend. >>>Thanks, Joshua From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 19:17:57 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:17:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <4db454c0.e805ec0a.689c.76b4SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4db454c0.e805ec0a.689c.76b4SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I couldn't do that either. But I was able to feel the frog's body parts. It was interesting what I thought the frog's eyes would look like on a bracelet string, a ring, ... ok, I"m wstarting to sound a bit weird. But I was only an eighth grader. What would one expect? Beth On 4/24/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: > I am in bio right now and going to go on to advanced next year. > I was not allowed, 4 years ago in 7th grade, to disect a frog. > So I ended up doing it at home with my mother, who obtained a > replacement frog from her sister, a chem and bio teacher. > > Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Findley Nicole" To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:42:31 GMT > Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > Hello, > My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in > the 11th grade in high school. I would like to post a question > about biology labs. My question is: If you were disecting a rat > in Biology class and you are visually impaired, what would you do > in order to be able to see all of the necessary parts of the rat? > What advice would you give an 18 year old visually impaired > student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How can I do > so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I > really appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. > Write me back soon. > Nicole Findley > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! > http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer > %40emissives.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 19:53:40 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 14:53:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question Message-ID: <001101cc02b9$50067eb0$f0137c10$@com> Dave, I agree with you 100%. I never meant to imply that one couldn't be successful without scanning and OCR. Clearly you and Mike and many from previous generations have. I only mean to say that eschewing that option completely puts one at a significant and unnecessary disadvantage given the available options today. We should strive to master the use of all tools and then select the one that best fits the job that needs doing. Sean. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 20:22:54 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:22:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <52C0260BBE02467980BE00811C297E76@OwnerPC> *$600? Don't you mean $6000? The Apex is in the thousands not in the hundreds with or with out a display. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 11:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the same ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) regardless of where you get one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >> more comfortable with it. >> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>> also >>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>> very >>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>> >>> The Professional version does not have this message >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 20:25:06 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:25:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> Message-ID: When was the Pacmate Omni released? Does it have a wi fy card? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Mike Freeman Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:04 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as does the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Joshua, The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are more comfortable with it. However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. All the best, Kirt On 4/23/11, trising wrote: > I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of > technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes > as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can also > edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to > having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very > much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all > depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. > > Terri Wilcox > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 20:26:04 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:26:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <003d01cc0234$379972e0$a6cc58a0$@panix.com> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <003d01cc0234$379972e0$a6cc58a0$@panix.com> Message-ID: Mike, Your costs sound more accurate. No one can get a notetaker that is not in the thousands. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Freeman Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:00 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Uh, shouldn't you be adding an extra zero in there, i.e., $2,000.00 for one without display, $4,000.00 for an 18-cel display and $6,000.00 for a 32-cell display? (grin) Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the same ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) regardless of where you get one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? > Thanks, Joshua > > On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >> more comfortable with it. >> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>> also >>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>> very >>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>> >>> The Professional version does not have this message >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen ts.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 20:28:12 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:28:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4C8086E9026F4C2A934573DDCB703366@OwnerPC> Joshua, They're expensive due to the specialized material in the braille display; those delicate pins to raise up for the dots are hard to make. Also companies jack up the price because they're corporations. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:40 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Why are the displays, so expensive? Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the > same > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) > regardless of where you get one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>> more comfortable with it. >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>> also >>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>> very >>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>> >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>> >>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 20:34:27 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:34:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display Message-ID: Hey all, Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! ~Jewel From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Apr 24 20:41:51 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:41:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display References: Message-ID: <0E3584344C554C2593F50C2FB87EBED3@stanford.edu> I might be wrong, but I think that you need to have Braille translation software in order to read BRF files on the computer. What screen reader are you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > Hey all, > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! > > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 20:52:07 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:52:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: <0E3584344C554C2593F50C2FB87EBED3@stanford.edu> References: <0E3584344C554C2593F50C2FB87EBED3@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <004401cc02c1$7a0874e0$6e195ea0$@panix.com> If she has a braille display, she could use it to read the books. But they'd sound like gobldygook if read using her screen-reader without braille translation software. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display I might be wrong, but I think that you need to have Braille translation software in order to read BRF files on the computer. What screen reader are you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > Hey all, > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! > > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sun Apr 24 20:53:01 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:53:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <4C8086E9026F4C2A934573DDCB703366@OwnerPC> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu> <4C8086E9026F4C2A934573DDCB703366@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <004501cc02c1$99e8db60$cdba9220$@panix.com> Your first statement is fact. Your second statement is prejudice. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Joshua, They're expensive due to the specialized material in the braille display; those delicate pins to raise up for the dots are hard to make. Also companies jack up the price because they're corporations. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:40 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Why are the displays, so expensive? Blessings, Joshua On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the > same > ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) > regardless of where you get one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>> more comfortable with it. >>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>> also >>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>> very >>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>> >>>> Terri Wilcox >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>> >>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen ts.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen ts.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From davidb521 at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 20:55:13 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:55:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: <004401cc02c1$7a0874e0$6e195ea0$@panix.com> Message-ID: <4db48e35.23af650a.4054.6cec@mx.google.com> If you're using a computer to read the BRF files with a display, you could change the extention to .txt and open them in Word Pad. You would have to disable Grade 2 Braille translation, since BRF files use Ascii characters for Braille signs. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display If she has a braille display, she could use it to read the books. But they'd sound like gobldygook if read using her screen-reader without braille translation software. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display I might be wrong, but I think that you need to have Braille translation software in order to read BRF files on the computer. What screen reader are you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > Hey all, > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! > > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 20:59:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:59:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> References: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <2043471074814E7E974ED4E9DA1589BC@OwnerPC> Nicole, Welcome, most are in college. I am Ashley and I finished my degree in 2009 and am in school at community college for a writing certificate but really want to work. I got a BA in psychology and communication. Can you describe your vision? Do you use large print or raised diagrams? Most have no or little vision here; but sounds like you may benefit from low vision techniques. I have tunnel vision but did not do disecting. I just watched my partner do it and they described it to me. Could you put the parts on a mat and put that under a CCTV to see? Maybe just sitting there with something of color contrast will help you see it. What are you all disecting? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Findley Nicole Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:42 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Hello, My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th grade in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of the necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How can I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back soon. Nicole Findley ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 21:01:11 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:01:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20110423.234231.14141.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com><078685826C5F4608A22B5DE41F47FF3A@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Oh, I forgot about that. YOu'll be wearing gloves anyway; so you can touch the parts. You can also put your hands over someone's to see what they are doing with the tools so you know how they are disecting the animal. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:27 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) I don't think there is a way to post questions on the NABS website, but we all pose our questions to this list, and usually, you get a few answers. In biology, i assisted in dissecting a few animals. You could have someone guide you as you cut, and since you will wear gloves, you can always touch the different parts of the rat. I think you should try to be as involved as you can. When we dissected a star fish, we had to locate and draw different systems. I used the descriptions of the different systems in the animal that I received from my notes and the book to help me understand what the other group members were describing. And it might be helpful to have someone draw with your finger, or bring supplies to create tactile drawings of things that might be too small or intricate for you to feel all of the details. I hope that previous Youth Slam attendees answer, because those students dissected a shark, so I'm sure they have some good tips. Cindy On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Unfortunately, this is true. For most of the dissections in my classes, I > just had the other students describe it to me. Once, I got lucky when > there > was a model of a frog dissection that I could feel. If it is really > important that you know the information, perhaps someone could construct a > model. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > >> Nicole, first of all, welcome to the list. >> I'm Joshua Lester. >> This is archived on the www.nfbnet.org, Website. >> I don't know, about disecting, because my Biology instructor in high >> school, let me skip out on it. >> I don't think, that there's a way for you to see the different parts, >> (if you're totally blind.) >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Findley Nicole wrote: >>> Hello, >>> My name is Nicole Findley. I am visually impaired. I am 18 in the 11th >>> grade >>> in high school. I would like to post a question about biology labs. My >>> question is: If you were disecting a rat in Biology class and you are >>> visually impaired, what would you do in order to be able to see all of >>> the >>> necessary parts of the rat? What advice would you give an 18 year old >>> visually impaired student? I want to post this on the NABS web page. How >>> can >>> I do so? Let me know. Have a nice day! Take care. Thank you. I really >>> appreciate your support. God Bless You!! Let me know. Write me back >>> soon. >>> Nicole Findley >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! >>> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 21:03:39 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:03:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu><0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <7965C70220E64F4D8EE5D57D8ED9FB72@OwnerPC> Kirt, If it doesn't have wy-fi or bluetooth built in, can't you buy a card and add it? That is how the BrailleNote M'power is. The apex has it built in though. Is there anything the Omni is lacking? Just because it came out 3 years ago, doesn't mean its lacking in technology; after all we had wireless internet, bluetooth and mp3 back then. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:10 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Mike, The omni is what I was refering to- it's 2 to 3 years old, where the Apex was released within the last year. It doesn't have wifi or bluetooth built in. The Omni's been out for quite a bit longer than the Apex, and it definitely shows. (speaking from experience, both as a user of the PAC Mate Omni and the Apex, the Apex is a year or two ahead of the omni as far as keeping up with technology) Best, Kirt On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > >> Why are the displays, so expensive? >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the >>> same >>> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell >>> display) >>> regardless of where you get one. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >>> >>> >>>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> Joshua, >>>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>>>> more comfortable with it. >>>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I >>>>>> can >>>>>> also >>>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>>>> very >>>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>>>> >>>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>>>> >>>>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 21:07:48 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:07:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> Message-ID: <87FA14085FA54F74AFB8715FF0DF7183@OwnerPC> What size display is a pacMate? Its $3800 for a new one? That is pretty good especially for someone like me who doesn't need so many fancy stuff on it. I assume if FS still sells it, it still has the parts for it and performs maintenace on it with a contract; it may not be updating the hardware, but I would think you'd have some maintenance support. When I have to buy a new braille device, I'll go with the cheaper product because I'll have to buy it on my own since rehab only buys you stuff as a student and then your employer is expected to buy assistive technology. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology Mike, I'd respectfully disagree. The last hardware update for the PAC Mate happened...2-3 years ago, whereas the Apex came out within the last year. The Apex has bluetooth, wifi, much more internal memory than the newest PAC Mate (I think it's like 4 gigs as opposed to 128 mb), a great deal more RAM, and support (at least in theory) for newer microsoft word files. The PAC Mate is at least a year behind simply because the hardware hasn't been updated and freedom scientific stopped updating it. True, they've had some firmware updates since the Apex came out...although I'm pretty wsure Freedom Scientific's discontinued those as well. I, personally, think the PAC mate is just a little bit past its time...and, as I said, I swore by the PAC mate for years. While the software and hardware of the machine are both sound, the Apex is simply a newer unit and, as such, is a little bit ahead in the technology department. This does mean the Apex is quite a bit more expensive- it runs around 5000 dollars whereas the PAC mate, for a similar-sized braille display, runs at around 3800 or so. Respectfully, Kirt On 4/23/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as > does > the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > Joshua, > The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest > up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are > more comfortable with it. > However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's > a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically > everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on > the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. > Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is > no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier > machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still > miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is > just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry > around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after > looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can > also >> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very >> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 24 21:25:39 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:25:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <87FA14085FA54F74AFB8715FF0DF7183@OwnerPC> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9> <003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com> <87FA14085FA54F74AFB8715FF0DF7183@OwnerPC> Message-ID: You can still get a maintenance agreement on Pac Mate. They are available with 20 or 40 cell braille displays. You can remove the display and use it as a separate display. Dave At 04:07 PM 4/24/2011, you wrote: >What size display is a pacMate? Its $3800 for a new one? That is >pretty good especially for someone like me who doesn't need so many >fancy stuff on it. >I assume if FS still sells it, it still has the parts for it and >performs maintenace on it with a contract; it may not be updating >the hardware, but I would think you'd have some maintenance >support. When I have to buy a new braille device, I'll go with the >cheaper product because I'll have to buy >it on my own since rehab only buys you stuff as a student and then >your employer is expected to buy assistive technology. >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:44 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > >Mike, > I'd respectfully disagree. The last hardware update for the PAC >Mate happened...2-3 years ago, whereas the Apex came out within the >last year. The Apex has bluetooth, wifi, much more internal memory >than the newest PAC Mate (I think it's like 4 gigs as opposed to 128 >mb), a great deal more RAM, and support (at least in theory) for newer >microsoft word files. The PAC Mate is at least a year behind simply >because the hardware hasn't been updated and freedom scientific >stopped updating it. True, they've had some firmware updates since >the Apex came out...although I'm pretty wsure Freedom Scientific's >discontinued those as well. > I, personally, think the PAC mate is just a little bit past its >time...and, as I said, I swore by the PAC mate for years. While the >software and hardware of the machine are both sound, the Apex is >simply a newer unit and, as such, is a little bit ahead in the >technology department. This does mean the Apex is quite a bit more >expensive- it runs around 5000 dollars whereas the PAC mate, for a >similar-sized braille display, runs at around 3800 or so. > Respectfully, >Kirt > >On 4/23/11, Mike Freeman wrote: >>There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as does >>the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. >> >>Mike >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>Of Kirt Manwaring >>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> >>Joshua, >> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>more comfortable with it. >> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> All the best, >>Kirt >> >>On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>also >>>edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very >>>much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>> >>>Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>> >>>The Professional version does not have this message From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 21:30:17 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:30:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> Good question. You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file you'd open them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. Is the braille display hooked to the computer? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display Hey all, Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! ~Jewel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 22:06:12 2011 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:06:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi. I would definitely request a reader. I had to take a foreign language placement test, and I had to use jaws. This was hard because jaws doesn't always understand that he should be speaking another language. Also, the test was multiple choice, and I could not use jaws to select the answers. I have no idea why. If it is that kind of test, extra time and a reader will be accomidations you should have. These tests are rarely, if ever accessible, so just try to get the accomidations you normally use in your math classes, and do your best. Good luck! On 4/23/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: > Hey, when I was an incoming freshman, the test was inaccessible and on > the computer. I would see if the disabilities office already has a way > of accommidating blind students on placement exams, and suggest your > ideas if they don't. > > Don't stress about it too much. It isn't possible to fail. It is a > placement exam, and the worst that will happen is that you might place > into college algebra instead of calc or something, but I totally > understand that you want to do well and skip unnecessary classes if > you can. It might be nice to request a reader. I always found readers > more helpful for math subjects. > > I'm not sure if you have to take any others, but my foreign language > placement test was online as well, but we could take it on our own > time. It was also inaccessible, but my high school French teacher > agreed to read it to me, so maybe you could do something like that. > > Cindy > > On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> When I entered college I took a math placement test. Back then in 2002, >> it >> was regular paper and pencil. >> How I did it was I just used my vision. A reader read the questions to me >> and I used paper and a dark marker to write out and work the questions. >> I think totally blind students were permitted to have a brailler to do the >> problems. >> But now a days they have computer placement tests. >> Your college should accommodate you with extra time and other >> accomodations. >> If its on the computer, jaws may not read it right. You might want to >> have >> a reader read out the questions. If you use nemeth braille, >> then transcribe the questions to braille and answer the problems. Tell >> the >> reader what answer you got. >> If it was a hard copy test, they could make tactile graphs. But again >> computers present more accessibility challenges because many software >> programs are not compatable to jaws. >> Bring something like tape to make tactile graphs. Your reader can describe >> the graphs and tables and tactially draw the graphs if needed. >> >> Good luck. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams >> >> Hey NABS, >> I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement >> exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I >> request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on >> those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking >> this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? >> Thanks! >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > UNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 22:20:45 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:20:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><003e01cc0234$a69ec640$f3dc52c0$@panix.com><87FA14085FA54F74AFB8715FF0DF7183@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Great info; I had forgotten you could use the display separately. That would be handy. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: David Andrews Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology You can still get a maintenance agreement on Pac Mate. They are available with 20 or 40 cell braille displays. You can remove the display and use it as a separate display. Dave At 04:07 PM 4/24/2011, you wrote: >What size display is a pacMate? Its $3800 for a new one? That is pretty >good especially for someone like me who doesn't need so many fancy stuff on >it. >I assume if FS still sells it, it still has the parts for it and performs >maintenace on it with a contract; it may not be updating the hardware, but >I would think you'd have some maintenance support. When I have to buy a >new braille device, I'll go with the cheaper product because I'll have to >buy >it on my own since rehab only buys you stuff as a student and then your >employer is expected to buy assistive technology. >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:44 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > >Mike, > I'd respectfully disagree. The last hardware update for the PAC >Mate happened...2-3 years ago, whereas the Apex came out within the >last year. The Apex has bluetooth, wifi, much more internal memory >than the newest PAC Mate (I think it's like 4 gigs as opposed to 128 >mb), a great deal more RAM, and support (at least in theory) for newer >microsoft word files. The PAC Mate is at least a year behind simply >because the hardware hasn't been updated and freedom scientific >stopped updating it. True, they've had some firmware updates since >the Apex came out...although I'm pretty wsure Freedom Scientific's >discontinued those as well. > I, personally, think the PAC mate is just a little bit past its >time...and, as I said, I swore by the PAC mate for years. While the >software and hardware of the machine are both sound, the Apex is >simply a newer unit and, as such, is a little bit ahead in the >technology department. This does mean the Apex is quite a bit more >expensive- it runs around 5000 dollars whereas the PAC mate, for a >similar-sized braille display, runs at around 3800 or so. > Respectfully, >Kirt > >On 4/23/11, Mike Freeman wrote: >>There's now the PacMate Omni. Dunno if it has a built-in wi-fi card as >>does >>the Apex but it's much newer than five years old. >> >>Mike >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf >>Of Kirt Manwaring >>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:23 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> >>Joshua, >> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>more comfortable with it. >> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >> All the best, >>Kirt >> >>On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>also >>>edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I very >>>much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>> >>>Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>> >>>The Professional version does not have this message _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 22:43:39 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:43:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about technology In-Reply-To: <7965C70220E64F4D8EE5D57D8ED9FB72@OwnerPC> References: <48C1CBFF837B4E959B3544F5257680FC@user6389c7a3c9><8C955EBE344545AFA8C553CF67BC5A0B@stanford.edu><0DF016D3F32D42E5867A145EE7E1B2A6@stanford.edu> <7965C70220E64F4D8EE5D57D8ED9FB72@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D78A6FB-D7E4-4447-A30F-1441397EC7D6@gmail.com> Yeah but the wifi card on an m-Power is bad. --of course, I have a laptop so it doesn't matter--but its really down to what you need. On Apr 24, 2011, at 5:03 PM, wrote: > Kirt, > If it doesn't have wy-fi or bluetooth built in, can't you buy a card and add it? > That is how the BrailleNote M'power is. The apex has it built in though. > Is there anything the Omni is lacking? Just because it came out 3 years ago, doesn't mean its lacking in technology; after all we had wireless internet, bluetooth and mp3 back then. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:10 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology > > Mike, > The omni is what I was refering to- it's 2 to 3 years old, where the > Apex was released within the last year. It doesn't have wifi or > bluetooth built in. The Omni's been out for quite a bit longer than > the Apex, and it definitely shows. (speaking from experience, both as > a user of the PAC Mate Omni and the Apex, the Apex is a year or two > ahead of the omni as far as keeping up with technology) > Best, > Kirt > > On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> I don't know, but I certainly would like to know why. It's ridiculous. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >> >> >>> Why are the displays, so expensive? >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 4/23/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> Not exactly sure, but I think that they are going to run just about the >>>> same >>>> ($200 for no display, $400 for 18 cell display, $600 for 32 cell display) >>>> regardless of where you get one. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about technology >>>> >>>> >>>>> Where can I get a good deal on an Apex? >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 4/23/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, >>>>>> The PAC Mate is a little bit behind the Apex in terms of the latest >>>>>> up-to-date technology. That, however, shouldn't stop you if you are >>>>>> more comfortable with it. >>>>>> However, I will say that if you liked the Braillenote you saw, it's >>>>>> a fair bet you'll like the Apex. The design's the same, basically >>>>>> everything you could do on the old braillenote you do the same way on >>>>>> the Apex, the Apex just has more bells and whistles. >>>>>> Personally, if it were me, I'd get the Apex because the PAC Mate is >>>>>> no longer being updated by Freedom Scientific and it's a bulkier >>>>>> machine. I used a PAC Mate for like 5 years, I loved it, and I still >>>>>> miss it sometimes. But my Apex can do more, the braille display is >>>>>> just as good as it was on the PAC mate, and it's easier to carry >>>>>> around. But, as I said, if you really like the PAC mate better after >>>>>> looking at both machines, get the Pac Mate. >>>>>> All the best, >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/23/11, trising wrote: >>>>>>> I absolutely love my Pacmate BX440. If I could only have one piece of >>>>>>> technology, this is the one i would have. I can take minutes >>>>>>> as the Secretary for the NFB of Michigan. I can also read books. I can >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> edit minutes and other documents. I am very partial to >>>>>>> having Braille under my fingertips for accuracy as a Secretary, so I >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> much prefer having Braille rather than just Jaws. This all >>>>>>> depends on what you are used to and what you are familiar with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Terri Wilcox >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >>>>>>> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >>>>>>> SPAMfighter has removed 2059 of my spam emails to date. >>>>>>> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Professional version does not have this message >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 23:42:32 2011 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:42:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers Message-ID: Hi everyone. I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who work mostly or only with sighted kids? I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of stories about blind people being denied their education degree or being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your story. Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Apr 24 23:51:46 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:51:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Julie, I don't know about public schools, but, Dr. Virgil Cook was a blind college professor. To my knowledge, he's still alive, but he retired, a few years ago. He taught at the University of West Virginia, (if i'm not mistaken,) as an English instructor. You can research him. He was the first ever blind college professor. Blessings, Joshua On 4/24/11, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about > for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm > talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or > private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching > braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who > work mostly or only with sighted kids? > > I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in > a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of > stories about blind people being denied their education degree or > being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know > it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but > I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into > consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted > students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your > story. > > Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 00:09:00 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:09:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions Message-ID: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> Hi again guys! I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the way of technology? I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far as technology in college? My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) Thanks again, Jordyn From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 01:07:36 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:07:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> Message-ID: I totally agree about the roommate thing. In my opinion, having a single room just is a way to single yourself out. Some people have a single room because of all of the space their equipment takes up or because they have a guide dog. This did not apply to me, because I did not see the point of personally owning a braille embosser, so I did not need more space than the average person. So, I would definitely encourage roommates, and borrowing equipment from your school that you might not need super often. I'm not sure how housing works. I don't remember specifying that I am blind on my housing contract, but I think they figured things out when I requested braille signage in my dorm. I don't know. When I registered my disability with the disabilities office, it might have been transfered there, or there might have been a question about ability in case of emergencies or something, and I might have indicated it. I don't remember. So, I am really glad that I visited the housing office, because they were planning to put me on the first floor. There are a lot of conveniences to living on said floor, I enjoy the first floor now, but I had applied to live on a leadership and service floor, the 4th floor, and they were going to ignore this request and put me on the first floor because of my blindness. But it took a pretty short talk with housing for them to understand that I did not need the first floor. So maybe talking to the office just to make sure they have not made assumptions such as giving you the handicap accessible room, intentionally placing you on the first floor, a nicer upperclassmen dorm, or in a single room hasn't happened. Cindy On 4/24/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 01:10:29 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:10:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know of several blind instructors at the college level. We do have a masters student in NC who is an elementary school special ed teacher. He has his own classroom, but he does have a lot of vision and uses it quite often. However, he has worked to break down a lot of stereotypes and has been a great example at his school. Cindy On 4/24/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > Julie, I don't know about public schools, but, Dr. Virgil Cook was a > blind college professor. > To my knowledge, he's still alive, but he retired, a few years ago. > He taught at the University of West Virginia, (if i'm not mistaken,) > as an English instructor. > You can research him. > He was the first ever blind college professor. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 4/24/11, Julie McGinnity wrote: >> Hi everyone. >> >> I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about >> for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm >> talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or >> private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching >> braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who >> work mostly or only with sighted kids? >> >> I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in >> a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of >> stories about blind people being denied their education degree or >> being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know >> it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but >> I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into >> consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted >> students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your >> story. >> >> Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 01:14:53 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:14:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams In-Reply-To: References: <4DB36EDD.6020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: I know I already responded to this, but I will bring up the point of picking your battles. Like I said, if MSU has a protocol that they follow for students with disabilities, then that's great. But I was the first student UNCW had had since they started doing placement exams on the computer that could not use the computer interface. Sometimes in situations when it would be more independent and beneficial to your future to learn the interface and find an accessible way to do it, it isn't the most efficient option. For example, the program used for the placement exams was not accessible, and since I only had to take them once, and since the math exam was set during an hour and a half block during the incredibly busy 2 day orientation, we felt that a reader would be the best solution. Cindy On 4/24/11, Julie McGinnity wrote: > Hi. > > I would definitely request a reader. I had to take a foreign language > placement test, and I had to use jaws. This was hard because jaws > doesn't always understand that he should be speaking another language. > Also, the test was multiple choice, and I could not use jaws to > select the answers. I have no idea why. If it is that kind of test, > extra time and a reader will be accomidations you should have. > > These tests are rarely, if ever accessible, so just try to get the > accomidations you normally use in your math classes, and do your best. > Good luck! > > On 4/23/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >> Hey, when I was an incoming freshman, the test was inaccessible and on >> the computer. I would see if the disabilities office already has a way >> of accommidating blind students on placement exams, and suggest your >> ideas if they don't. >> >> Don't stress about it too much. It isn't possible to fail. It is a >> placement exam, and the worst that will happen is that you might place >> into college algebra instead of calc or something, but I totally >> understand that you want to do well and skip unnecessary classes if >> you can. It might be nice to request a reader. I always found readers >> more helpful for math subjects. >> >> I'm not sure if you have to take any others, but my foreign language >> placement test was online as well, but we could take it on our own >> time. It was also inaccessible, but my high school French teacher >> agreed to read it to me, so maybe you could do something like that. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 4/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Gordyn, >>> When I entered college I took a math placement test. Back then in 2002, >>> it >>> was regular paper and pencil. >>> How I did it was I just used my vision. A reader read the questions to me >>> and I used paper and a dark marker to write out and work the questions. >>> I think totally blind students were permitted to have a brailler to do >>> the >>> problems. >>> But now a days they have computer placement tests. >>> Your college should accommodate you with extra time and other >>> accomodations. >>> If its on the computer, jaws may not read it right. You might want to >>> have >>> a reader read out the questions. If you use nemeth braille, >>> then transcribe the questions to braille and answer the problems. Tell >>> the >>> reader what answer you got. >>> If it was a hard copy test, they could make tactile graphs. But again >>> computers present more accessibility challenges because many software >>> programs are not compatable to jaws. >>> Bring something like tape to make tactile graphs. Your reader can >>> describe >>> the graphs and tables and tactially draw the graphs if needed. >>> >>> Good luck. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jordyn Castor >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Placement Exams >>> >>> Hey NABS, >>> I was accepted into a college and am required to take a math placement >>> exam. If I register with the DSS office before I take the exam, can I >>> request extra time or something? Will colleges make accommodations on >>> those types of exams? If I'm not allotted extra time, any tips on taking >>> this math exam not about the math itself but about like using the system? >>> Thanks! >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> UNC Wilmington Psychology major >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 01:20:17 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:20:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dr. Joanne Wilson wanted to go into education, while she didn't continue as a teacher, I believe she did do some student teaching. As well, in Recent Issues of the student slate, Articles can be found that talk about the alternitive techniques teachers use. This may not directly answer your question, but it may be also helpful to note that blind educators meet at convention, and I believe they have a list serve. Best, Darian On 4/24/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I know of several blind instructors at the college level. We do have a > masters student in NC who is an elementary school special ed teacher. > He has his own classroom, but he does have a lot of vision and uses it > quite often. However, he has worked to break down a lot of stereotypes > and has been a great example at his school. > > Cindy > > On 4/24/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Julie, I don't know about public schools, but, Dr. Virgil Cook was a >> blind college professor. >> To my knowledge, he's still alive, but he retired, a few years ago. >> He taught at the University of West Virginia, (if i'm not mistaken,) >> as an English instructor. >> You can research him. >> He was the first ever blind college professor. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 4/24/11, Julie McGinnity wrote: >>> Hi everyone. >>> >>> I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about >>> for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm >>> talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or >>> private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching >>> braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who >>> work mostly or only with sighted kids? >>> >>> I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in >>> a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of >>> stories about blind people being denied their education degree or >>> being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know >>> it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but >>> I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into >>> consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted >>> students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your >>> story. >>> >>> Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! >>> >>> -- >>> Julie McG >>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >>> Eyes for the Blind >>> >>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >>> life." >>> John 3:16 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > UNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From davidb521 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 01:38:29 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4db4d099.63c3ec0a.587b.1d5b@mx.google.com> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in mind. Definitely try to get a laptop with a screen reader. I know that some agencies may not purchase computers, but rather the adaptive devices like screen readers, notetakers, etc. But there are always exceptions, it seems. You'll want a powerful computer with quite a bit of ram and processing speed, as well as a decently sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're reasonably good with computers, look in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution with excellent OCR accuracy. I believe that it might be better than Kurzweil and OpenBook, and you should be able to get it for less than $200. Be aware that OmniPage is not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and Kurzweil, but if you are a decent computer user, you'll have little trouble with it. As for the Braille display and notetaker, I would personally recommend a notetaker with Braille output, since it's very portable, and you can just open it and take notes immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to boot up. I'd get the notetaker before the Braille display, since most notetakers can act as Braille displays. However, I don't think it's as convenient as a dedicated Braille display. Maybe they'll get you both. A Braille embosser would be nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, and that may be a problem in a dorm setting. But if you really like using hard-copy Braille, then do try getting one. It would be preferable than having to schedule time to use the university's. Those are my thoughts. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordyn Castor Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions Hi again guys! I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the way of technology? I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far as technology in college? My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) Thanks again, Jordyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Apr 25 01:39:20 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:39:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommates in College was Re: Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <31DE0F5D579640ADAB415155ABFB56F8@stanford.edu> Different colleges handle disability housing differently. If you do not have a guide dog, and you do not have too much technology, a roommate would probably be fine. If, for some reason, things just were not working out, you could probably get a different roommate or get a single. However, the reverse, getting a roommate after not having one, is usually not possible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:09 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why > I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything > right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) > So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer > scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't > know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any > suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far > as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab > for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would > be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A > lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive > technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 01:39:25 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:39:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers Message-ID: <4db4d0dd.0691ec0a.1b94.3335@mx.google.com> Hi, Julie and list. First of all, I'm a new member of the list, so let me introduce myself. My name is Chris and I'm a totally blind seventh grade student (in public school) from Maryland. I already joined a couple NFB lists, and went back on to see if I could find any others I was interested in, and found the NABS list. I thought it would be cool to connect with other blind students across the country as well as adults, who share my belief in the Federation. To answer Julie's question, I know a little about blind classroom teachers. I have a good friend who is a retired public school Latin and French teacher at our local high school. He's been totally blind since birth, and everybody who has had him says he's a great teacher, which I have no doubt in. I'll email him for you and see if I have permission to give you his email address so you can ask him some questions. I'm sure he'd be very happy to help you! I also know of an NFB leader by the name of Joanne Wilson who also is a retired teacher from Iowa. She originally had a lot of struggles becoming a teacher, beginning with the dean of her college (Iowa State University) telling her that she couldn't student teach because she was blind and not many blind people had been allowed to student teach in Iowa. However, she hooked up with NFB and was able to get a job with an accepting superintendent in a school in the same town as the university. She showed that dean! * Smile! You can Google her if you want. I'll email the guy I know and if he gives me permission, I'll send you an email off-list with his email. Hope this helps! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Hi everyone. I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who work mostly or only with sighted kids? I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of stories about blind people being denied their education degree or being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your story. Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester84 62%40students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Apr 25 01:46:04 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:46:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7BDA05BAE1D74A27A5CE12502064086F@stanford.edu> Okay...technology. First, most rehab don't want to buy both a notetaker and a laptop. So that's where it gets hard. You should definitely find out what technology you can borrow from the college. My personal experience is that things seem to run the smoothest with both a notetaker and a laptop. I use the laptop for the internet, email, file storage, and writing major assignments. I use the notetaker (BrailleNote) for taking notes in class. I find the notetaker essential because it is portable, powers on quickly, and does not stall as often as a computer. So, it's really up to you. However, if possible, I would try to find another resource for getting the laptop (Lions' Club?) and ask rehab for the notetaker. Also, you may want to consider getting a Victor Stream. If you want to record your classes, which most colleges allow as an accommodation, the VR Stream works very well. Yes, most of the notetakers have recording features, but they usually are not as good as the VR Stream. What technology do you use now? Nicole P.S. Ask all the questions that you want. That's what this list is for, and there's no such thing as a stupid question. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:09 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why > I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything > right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) > So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer > scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't > know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any > suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far > as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab > for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would > be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A > lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive > technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 25 01:46:56 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:46:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> Gordyn, Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college goals. Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? If so, you already have a braille display. I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are personal preference. Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is supportive. What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on it? Something to think about. In VA I don't know one college student who got a 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or BrailleNote. Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common request. If you need it, go ahead though. But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate because of allergies or something. Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions Hi again guys! I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the way of technology? I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far as technology in college? My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) Thanks again, Jordyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 25 01:53:31 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:53:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions In-Reply-To: <4db4d099.63c3ec0a.587b.1d5b@mx.google.com> References: <4db4d099.63c3ec0a.587b.1d5b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I got the BrailleNote with braille output for the same reasons. One, its very portable. Two, it has a longer battery life than the laptop. Three, you just open it and turn it on and take notes; it puts you right in your file. Laptops take time to boot up. A notetaker can act as a braille display though, so I doubt you can get both. Anyone know the cost of the 40 cell displays? I bet its in the thousands. Of course the price is not on the website. I really want a display at work because I need to edit my corespondence and that is hard to do with jaws. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: David Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:38 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in mind. Definitely try to get a laptop with a screen reader. I know that some agencies may not purchase computers, but rather the adaptive devices like screen readers, notetakers, etc. But there are always exceptions, it seems. You'll want a powerful computer with quite a bit of ram and processing speed, as well as a decently sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're reasonably good with computers, look in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution with excellent OCR accuracy. I believe that it might be better than Kurzweil and OpenBook, and you should be able to get it for less than $200. Be aware that OmniPage is not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and Kurzweil, but if you are a decent computer user, you'll have little trouble with it. As for the Braille display and notetaker, I would personally recommend a notetaker with Braille output, since it's very portable, and you can just open it and take notes immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to boot up. I'd get the notetaker before the Braille display, since most notetakers can act as Braille displays. However, I don't think it's as convenient as a dedicated Braille display. Maybe they'll get you both. A Braille embosser would be nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, and that may be a problem in a dorm setting. But if you really like using hard-copy Braille, then do try getting one. It would be preferable than having to schedule time to use the university's. Those are my thoughts. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordyn Castor Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions Hi again guys! I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the way of technology? I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far as technology in college? My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) Thanks again, Jordyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Apr 25 01:52:41 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:52:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <98AC2088E21D4CF5AC0689B382EE0903@stanford.edu> It might be different depending on major, but I have to disagree about the desktop verses laptop. You really need to be able to take your computer with you if there is a need to. Sometimes, you work with other students, and you need to be able to show them your work while also still being able to control the computer. Even if you have on of those USB screen readers, it can still be rather slow working on a system that is not your own. Also, particularly if you have a roommate, you don't want your technology to take up more room than it has to. That brings me to my next point. Unless you need to emboss a lot of things, I would actually opt out of an embosser. The only thing that I get hard copy is tactile graphics, which the college does for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions > Gordyn, > Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college > goals. > Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a > regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry > about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes > on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. > Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? > If so, you already have a braille display. > I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. > > The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are > personal preference. > Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I > already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is > supportive. > > What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more expensive > than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. > So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on > it? Something to think about. > In VA I don't know one college student who got a > 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR > software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or > BrailleNote. > Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common > request. If you need it, go ahead though. > But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a > screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". > > Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a guide > dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate because of > allergies or something. > Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or > something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as > you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live > and don't let blindness be a barrier. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other > college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 02:00:14 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:00:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions Message-ID: <4db4d5be.1c1c640a.482a.ffffbbc0@mx.google.com> Hi, Jordyn and listers. Great question! Although I'm not getting ready for the transission to college, I know a little about it since I'm active in working with a foundation called the I CAN Foundation that helps visually impaired students in Maryland buy the technology necessary in college that is super expensive without a school system's help. We're hoping to go national soon, but we're just not there yet. To answer your question, rehab covers a lot of technology, but not all. With all the technology you're needing, you'll probably need to find an alternative source of funds besides rehab to pick up the slack they didn't cover. For this, I would reccomend going to your local Lions Club or any other foundation that helps blind or visually impaired students with the purchase of technology for college. If you do live in Maryland, you can always look into getting help from the I CAN Foundation. You can check us out online at www.icanfoundation.info. Don't worry, the site's accessible now, both to screen readers and notetakers. Hope this helps. Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cindy Bennett wrote: Hi again guys! I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the way of technology? I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far as technology in college? My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) Thanks again, Jordyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%4 0gmail.com -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 02:08:41 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:08:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers Message-ID: <4db4d7ba.254b640a.7271.ffffbd63@mx.google.com> Hi, Darian. Thanks for the help! I was under the impression that Dr. Wilson did get a teaching job in Iowa after student teaching from what I learned from being in the Wilson Watch group at the LAW Program. By the way, aren't you the same Darian Smith who was a mentor at the NFB LAW Program? If so, I remember you! That's awesome that you're on the NABS list. I'm Chris Nusbaum, and I was in the Wilson Watch group and my mentor was Aloma. Go Orioles!!! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith wrote: I know of several blind instructors at the college level. We do have a masters student in NC who is an elementary school special ed teacher. He has his own classroom, but he does have a lot of vision and uses it quite often. However, he has worked to break down a lot of stereotypes and has been a great example at his school. Cindy On 4/24/11, Joshua Lester wrote: Julie, I don't know about public schools, but, Dr. Virgil Cook was a blind college professor. To my knowledge, he's still alive, but he retired, a few years ago. He taught at the University of West Virginia, (if i'm not mistaken,) as an English instructor. You can research him. He was the first ever blind college professor. Blessings, Joshua On 4/24/11, Julie McGinnity wrote: Hi everyone. I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who work mostly or only with sighted kids? I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of stories about blind people being denied their education degree or being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your story. Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester84 62%40students.pccua.edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%4 0gmail.com -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40gmail..com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From nijat1989 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 02:10:35 2011 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (Nijat Worley) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:10:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] National Association of Blind Students Fundraiser Conference Call Message-ID: Greetings Nabsters, The NABS fundraiser committee will be having a conference call on Monday April 25th at 6:00 pm. The conference number is 712-775-7100 and the code is 257963. We would really like to have participation from membership. We will be brainstorming some fundraiser ideas for NABS at the 2011 National Federation of the Blind convention. Please come with your ideas and let us know what you would like us to have as a fundraiser this year. Let us know what successful fundraisers you have had in your states in the past and give us advice. We look forward to seeing as many of you there as possible. Yours cordially, Nijat From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 25 02:17:53 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:17:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions In-Reply-To: <7BDA05BAE1D74A27A5CE12502064086F@stanford.edu> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> <7BDA05BAE1D74A27A5CE12502064086F@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Nicole, We have that issue in VA. They won't usually buy a notetaker and laptop because they are both used for notetaking purposes. But like you I found the notetaker essential for the portable notetaking ability. I took it to class, the library and to professor's office hours. Very handy! Its like picking up a paper to write because it powers up quickly and you're ready to write! I agree with you about the computer. Whether laptop or desktop, you might be better off getting another funding source rather than fighting rehab. Could your parents buy it? I find it odd that parents cannot help out when they buy other children equipment like computers; if not yes lions clubs are excellent resources. They have helped many students in my area. Yes I forgot about the VR stream. Love it for recording and books. Very small. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions Okay...technology. First, most rehab don't want to buy both a notetaker and a laptop. So that's where it gets hard. You should definitely find out what technology you can borrow from the college. My personal experience is that things seem to run the smoothest with both a notetaker and a laptop. I use the laptop for the internet, email, file storage, and writing major assignments. I use the notetaker (BrailleNote) for taking notes in class. I find the notetaker essential because it is portable, powers on quickly, and does not stall as often as a computer. So, it's really up to you. However, if possible, I would try to find another resource for getting the laptop (Lions' Club?) and ask rehab for the notetaker. Also, you may want to consider getting a Victor Stream. If you want to record your classes, which most colleges allow as an accommodation, the VR Stream works very well. Yes, most of the notetakers have recording features, but they usually are not as good as the VR Stream. What technology do you use now? Nicole P.S. Ask all the questions that you want. That's what this list is for, and there's no such thing as a stupid question. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:09 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why > I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything > right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) > So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer > scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't > know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any > suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far > as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab > for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would > be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A > lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive > technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Apr 25 02:25:19 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 19:25:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><7BDA05BAE1D74A27A5CE12502064086F@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I think the payment options are often too black and white (no pun intended). Often, parents could afford to pay for part of the equipment, but there aren't really options for doing that, at least none that I have heard of. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions > Nicole, > We have that issue in VA. They won't usually buy a notetaker and laptop > because they are both used for notetaking purposes. > But like you I found the notetaker essential for the portable notetaking > ability. I took it to class, the library and to professor's office hours. > Very handy! > Its like picking up a paper to write because it powers up quickly and > you're ready to write! > I agree with you about the computer. Whether laptop or desktop, you might > be better off getting another funding source rather than fighting rehab. > Could your parents buy it? I find it odd that parents cannot help out > when they buy other children equipment like computers; if not yes lions > clubs are excellent resources. They have helped many students in my area. > > Yes I forgot about the VR stream. Love it for recording and books. Very > small. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and > someother college questions > > Okay...technology. First, most rehab don't want to buy both a notetaker > and > a laptop. So that's where it gets hard. You should definitely find out > what > technology you can borrow from the college. My personal experience is that > things seem to run the smoothest with both a notetaker and a laptop. I use > the laptop for the internet, email, file storage, and writing major > assignments. I use the notetaker (BrailleNote) for taking notes in class. > I > find the notetaker essential because it is portable, powers on quickly, > and > does not stall as often as a computer. So, it's really up to you. However, > if possible, I would try to find another resource for getting the laptop > (Lions' Club?) and ask rehab for the notetaker. Also, you may want to > consider getting a Victor Stream. If you want to record your classes, > which > most colleges allow as an accommodation, the VR Stream works very well. > Yes, > most of the notetakers have recording features, but they usually are not > as > good as the VR Stream. > > What technology do you use now? > > Nicole > > P.S. Ask all the questions that you want. That's what this list is for, > and > there's no such thing as a stupid question. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:09 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other > college questions > > >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything >> right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? >> :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using >> as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it >> would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A >> lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 02:39:55 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:39:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><7BDA05BAE1D74A27A5CE12502064086F@stanford.edu> Message-ID: the only company who does financing is GWMicro. Jorge On Apr 24, 2011, at 10:25 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I think the payment options are often too black and white (no pun intended). Often, parents could afford to pay for part of the equipment, but there aren't really options for doing that, at least none that I have heard of. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions > > >> Nicole, >> We have that issue in VA. They won't usually buy a notetaker and laptop because they are both used for notetaking purposes. >> But like you I found the notetaker essential for the portable notetaking ability. I took it to class, the library and to professor's office hours. Very handy! >> Its like picking up a paper to write because it powers up quickly and you're ready to write! >> I agree with you about the computer. Whether laptop or desktop, you might be better off getting another funding source rather than fighting rehab. >> Could your parents buy it? I find it odd that parents cannot help out when they buy other children equipment like computers; if not yes lions clubs are excellent resources. They have helped many students in my area. >> >> Yes I forgot about the VR stream. Love it for recording and books. Very small. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:46 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions >> >> Okay...technology. First, most rehab don't want to buy both a notetaker and >> a laptop. So that's where it gets hard. You should definitely find out what >> technology you can borrow from the college. My personal experience is that >> things seem to run the smoothest with both a notetaker and a laptop. I use >> the laptop for the internet, email, file storage, and writing major >> assignments. I use the notetaker (BrailleNote) for taking notes in class. I >> find the notetaker essential because it is portable, powers on quickly, and >> does not stall as often as a computer. So, it's really up to you. However, >> if possible, I would try to find another resource for getting the laptop >> (Lions' Club?) and ask rehab for the notetaker. Also, you may want to >> consider getting a Victor Stream. If you want to record your classes, which >> most colleges allow as an accommodation, the VR Stream works very well. Yes, >> most of the notetakers have recording features, but they usually are not as >> good as the VR Stream. >> >> What technology do you use now? >> >> Nicole >> >> P.S. Ask all the questions that you want. That's what this list is for, and >> there's no such thing as a stupid question. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:09 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other >> college questions >> >> >>> Hi again guys! >>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the way of technology? >>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using as far as technology in college? >>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 03:26:42 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:26:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions Message-ID: <4db4ea02.0b73650a.278c.09cb@mx.google.com> Hi, guys. Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. I agree with your comment about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the newer versions of the notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, you can do most anything that you could on a computer with your notetaker as it's all computer technology now instead of PDA technology. However, if you're doing a Internet research project or something, the more tools in your toolbox, the better. I know that some sites are accessible to screen readers but not to notetakers, and vice versa. So I would reccomend definitely seeing if you can get both. Now keep in mind, as I said before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the technology you need for you, but you never know. You might need another funding source, like a Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN Foundation that I mentioned in the last email to you. On the display vs notetaker and Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a notetaker over a Braille display for its portability and convenience. I would reccomend a Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on what I've heard about the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB executives was showing me a Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, which he uses for his iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't matter, in my opinion, whether you get a screen reader for your computer or a Braille display. It really serves the same purpose. If you have a screen reader, it's already reading the screen, so why would you need a Braille display, and vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes down to individual preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille until I got the Apex. Now my teachers email homework or classwork to me and I detach it right onto my Braille-Note. I also email my teachers homework as attachments to emails instead of printing them out and labeling them in Braille, which saves a lot of time. I also use the good old thumb drive all the time in school. What's awesome about that is that in the middle of class, my teacher will say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper on it for today." If he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of the worksheet, they can stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it into the notetaker. It's a life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, it's a louder process and you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you prefer. If you have any more questions, let me and the list know. Good luck! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: David Hi, Ashley. I agree with the portability of the Braille-Note. About the parents thing, sighted people's technology is anywhere from 100 dollars to 600 dollars (estimating) while technology for the blind is like * super * expensive. My Braille-Note Apex cost about 6 thousand dollars! Thank God the school system bought it for me! Yes, you could buy a regular laptop which costs about 400 to 500 dollars, but if you get a screen reader on it, it costs a lot more. So even for families who aren't really poor, it's hard to buy technology for us without spending a lot of money. It's just how much more time and money it takes to make stuff accessible. That's what's so cool about out-of-the-box accessibility, like on Apple products. Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><7BDA05BAE1D74A27A5CE12502064086F@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <081C5BBAFFF94AD0B1F55B334D1F9EB7@OwnerPC> Well, parents cannot split the cost with rehab. But they could buy the less expensive equipment such as a computer and rehab could buy the adaptive software for it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 10:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions I think the payment options are often too black and white (no pun intended). Often, parents could afford to pay for part of the equipment, but there aren't really options for doing that, at least none that I have heard of. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions > Nicole, > We have that issue in VA. They won't usually buy a notetaker and laptop > because they are both used for notetaking purposes. > But like you I found the notetaker essential for the portable notetaking > ability. I took it to class, the library and to professor's office hours. > Very handy! > Its like picking up a paper to write because it powers up quickly and > you're ready to write! > I agree with you about the computer. Whether laptop or desktop, you might > be better off getting another funding source rather than fighting rehab. > Could your parents buy it? I find it odd that parents cannot help out > when they buy other children equipment like computers; if not yes lions > clubs are excellent resources. They have helped many students in my area. > > Yes I forgot about the VR stream. Love it for recording and books. Very > small. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and > someother college questions > > Okay...technology. First, most rehab don't want to buy both a notetaker > and > a laptop. So that's where it gets hard. You should definitely find out > what > technology you can borrow from the college. My personal experience is that > things seem to run the smoothest with both a notetaker and a laptop. I use > the laptop for the internet, email, file storage, and writing major > assignments. I use the notetaker (BrailleNote) for taking notes in class. > I > find the notetaker essential because it is portable, powers on quickly, > and > does not stall as often as a computer. So, it's really up to you. However, > if possible, I would try to find another resource for getting the laptop > (Lions' Club?) and ask rehab for the notetaker. Also, you may want to > consider getting a Victor Stream. If you want to record your classes, > which > most colleges allow as an accommodation, the VR Stream works very well. > Yes, > most of the notetakers have recording features, but they usually are not > as > good as the VR Stream. > > What technology do you use now? > > Nicole > > P.S. Ask all the questions that you want. That's what this list is for, > and > there's no such thing as a stupid question. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 5:09 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other > college questions > > >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing everything >> right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind students? >> :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all using >> as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think it >> would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? A >> lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Apr 25 04:05:53 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:05:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions References: <4db4ea02.0b73650a.278c.09cb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <122024A082CF4991B079C323C0C96647@stanford.edu> I just want to make a few points. The notetakers are definitely catching up on the technology, but there are still things that you can and will need to do on a computer that you cannot do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. Teachers in secondary school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, but, in college, what passed in secondary school probably will not pass in college. I hardly ever turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. I don't think that the person was using the Braille display *instead* of VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple products, but I know that, on windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to act as a driver for a Braille display. To answer the question of why you would need both speech and Braille, some things are easier/faster to do listening and some are better done with Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to listen to math. On the other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster than I can read, so I listen to things for which it is not critical that I know every little punctuation mark. One last comment about emailing work. In college, most things are not in a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most professors use PDF. Some use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if they do, most use docx files and/or files with formatting that the bn does not support. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions > Hi, guys. > > Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. I agree with your comment > about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the newer versions of the > notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, you can do most > anything that you could on a computer with your notetaker as it's all > computer technology now instead of PDA technology. However, if you're > doing a Internet research project or something, the more tools in your > toolbox, the better. I know that some sites are accessible to screen > readers but not to notetakers, and vice versa. So I would reccomend > definitely seeing if you can get both. Now keep in mind, as I said > before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the technology you need for > you, but you never know. You might need another funding source, like a > Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN Foundation that I > mentioned in the last email to you. On the display vs notetaker and > Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a notetaker over a Braille > display for its portability and convenience. I would reccomend a > Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on what I've heard about > the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB executives was showing me a > Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, which he uses for his > iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't matter, in my opinion, > whether you get a screen reader for your computer or a Braille display. > It really serves the same purpose. If you have a screen reader, it's > already reading the screen, so why would you need a Braille display, and > vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes down to individual > preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille until I got the Apex. Now my > teachers email homework or classwork to me and I detach it right onto my > Braille-Note. I also email my teachers homework as attachments to emails > instead of printing them out and labeling them in Braille, which saves a > lot of time. I also use the good old thumb drive all the time in school. > What's awesome about that is that in the middle of class, my teacher will > say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper on it for today." If > he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of the worksheet, they can > stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it into the notetaker. It's a > life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, it's a louder process and > you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you prefer. If you have > any more questions, let me and the list know. Good luck! > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and > someother college questions > > Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in mind. Definitely try to get > a > laptop with a screen reader. I know that some agencies may not purchase > computers, but rather the adaptive devices like screen readers, > notetakers, > etc. But there are always exceptions, it seems. You'll want a powerful > computer with quite a bit of ram and processing speed, as well as a > decently > sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're reasonably good with computers, > look > in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution with excellent OCR > accuracy. I believe that it might be better than Kurzweil and OpenBook, > and > you should be able to get it for less than $200. Be aware that OmniPage > is > not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and Kurzweil, but if you are a > decent > computer user, you'll have little trouble with it. As for the Braille > display and notetaker, I would personally recommend a notetaker with > Braille > output, since it's very portable, and you can just open it and take notes > immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to boot up. I'd get the > notetaker before the Braille display, since most notetakers can act as > Braille displays. However, I don't think it's as convenient as a > dedicated > Braille display. Maybe they'll get you both. A Braille embosser would be > nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, and that may be a > problem > in a dorm setting. But if you really like using hard-copy Braille, then > do > try getting one. It would be preferable than having to schedule time to > use > the university's. Those are my thoughts. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other > college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From graduate56 at juno.com Mon Apr 25 05:08:40 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:08:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Student Seminar announcement. please distribute. Message-ID: <9224E288CC6B411799E63CF1672BBA7A@melissa> Are you a student who is blind? Are you a Student who has low-vision? Are you a Student that is blind or visually impaired that is returning to school? Are you a parent or teacher of a blind student? We have a way to help"... The COLORADO ASOCIATION of BLIND STUDENTS Presents: Broadening the horizons through bringing education to life for the blind and visually impaired student. When: April 30, 2011 from 11:00-4:00 P.M. Where: The Colorado Center for the Blind Located at 2233 West shepperd avenue, Littleton, Colorado 80120 We will focus on career exploration and technology options for students with visual impairments! Tech demos and group discussions will serve as a foundation for helping students with visual impairments plan their futures! Come and join us for refreshments, learning and fun! For more information Contact Brent Batron at: 303-778-1130 From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 05:24:01 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:24:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: <122024A082CF4991B079C323C0C96647@stanford.edu> References: <4db4ea02.0b73650a.278c.09cb@mx.google.com> <122024A082CF4991B079C323C0C96647@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Hi Jordan and all, When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS counselor and encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing application that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, and initially I was assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought to get a non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single because I feared that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As it turned out, I brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. If I could do it over again, I would never have told housing that I had a "disability" or requested a single. I made an effort to socialize with my floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the other girls on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate it would have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. Nowadays, most college students come with a computer of some sort and I think many also bring a printer. You can get a scanner that's integrated into your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer and screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment than your sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge and also get a Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can easily fit on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your equipment is even more compact. So don't worry about any special housing accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. Arielle On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I just want to make a few points. > > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the technology, but there are > still things that you can and will need to do on a computer that you cannot > do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. Teachers in secondary > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, but, in college, what > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in college. I hardly ever > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. > > I don't think that the person was using the Braille display *instead* of > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple products, but I know that, on > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to act as a driver for a > Braille display. > > To answer the question of why you would need both speech and Braille, > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some are better done with > Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to listen to math. On the > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster than I can read, so I > listen to things for which it is not critical that I know every little > punctuation mark. > > One last comment about emailing work. In college, most things are not in > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most professors use PDF. Some > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if they do, most use docx > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does not support. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother > college questions > > >> Hi, guys. >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. I agree with your comment >> about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the newer versions of the >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, you can do most >> anything that you could on a computer with your notetaker as it's all >> computer technology now instead of PDA technology. However, if you're >> doing a Internet research project or something, the more tools in your >> toolbox, the better. I know that some sites are accessible to screen >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice versa. So I would reccomend >> definitely seeing if you can get both. Now keep in mind, as I said >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the technology you need for >> you, but you never know. You might need another funding source, like a >> Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN Foundation that I >> mentioned in the last email to you. On the display vs notetaker and >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a notetaker over a Braille >> display for its portability and convenience. I would reccomend a >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on what I've heard about >> the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB executives was showing me a >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, which he uses for his >> iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't matter, in my opinion, >> whether you get a screen reader for your computer or a Braille display. >> It really serves the same purpose. If you have a screen reader, it's >> already reading the screen, so why would you need a Braille display, and >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes down to individual >> preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille until I got the Apex. Now my >> >> teachers email homework or classwork to me and I detach it right onto my >> Braille-Note. I also email my teachers homework as attachments to emails >> instead of printing them out and labeling them in Braille, which saves a >> lot of time. I also use the good old thumb drive all the time in school. >> What's awesome about that is that in the middle of class, my teacher will >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper on it for today." If >> he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of the worksheet, they can >> >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it into the notetaker. It's a >> >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, it's a louder process and >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you prefer. If you have >> any more questions, let me and the list know. Good luck! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and >> someother college questions >> >> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in mind. Definitely try to get >> a >> laptop with a screen reader. I know that some agencies may not purchase >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like screen readers, >> notetakers, >> etc. But there are always exceptions, it seems. You'll want a powerful >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing speed, as well as a >> decently >> sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're reasonably good with computers, >> look >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution with excellent OCR >> accuracy. I believe that it might be better than Kurzweil and OpenBook, >> and >> you should be able to get it for less than $200. Be aware that OmniPage >> is >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and Kurzweil, but if you are a >> decent >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with it. As for the Braille >> display and notetaker, I would personally recommend a notetaker with >> Braille >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just open it and take notes >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to boot up. I'd get the >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most notetakers can act as >> Braille displays. However, I don't think it's as convenient as a >> dedicated >> Braille display. Maybe they'll get you both. A Braille embosser would be >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, and that may be a >> problem >> in a dorm setting. But if you really like using hard-copy Braille, then >> do >> try getting one. It would be preferable than having to schedule time to >> use >> the university's. Those are my thoughts. >> David >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other >> college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 >> %40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From kobycox at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 11:43:51 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 06:43:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Student Seminar announcement. please distribute. In-Reply-To: <9224E288CC6B411799E63CF1672BBA7A@melissa> References: <9224E288CC6B411799E63CF1672BBA7A@melissa> Message-ID: <784F69B6-D532-4A8D-B62E-F91F8267CCF6@gmail.com> can you email me off list? koby. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:08 AM, "Melissa Green" wrote: > Are you a student who is blind? > > Are you a Student who has low-vision? > > Are you a Student that is blind or visually impaired that is returning to school? > > > > Are you a parent or teacher of a blind student? > > We have a way to help"... > > The COLORADO ASOCIATION of BLIND STUDENTS > > Presents: > > Broadening the horizons through bringing education to life for the blind and visually impaired student. > > When: April 30, 2011 from 11:00-4:00 P.M. > > Where: The Colorado Center for the Blind Located at 2233 West shepperd avenue, Littleton, Colorado 80120 > > > > We will focus on career exploration and technology options for students with visual impairments! Tech demos and group discussions will serve as a foundation for helping students with visual impairments plan their futures! Come and join us for refreshments, learning and fun! > > For more information Contact Brent Batron at: 303-778-1130 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Apr 25 13:59:26 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 08:59:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs Membership Conference Call Message-ID: Greetings fellow students, For the topic of May's NABS Membership Committee conference call, we of the Membership Committee turn to you! Three possible topics have come head to head, and we need a winner. That is where you come in! The proposed topics are the following: 1. A call all about technology and the strategies used to be a successful student. 2. A Sports and Recreational Activities call. 3. A call that stemmed from a recent list serve topic questioning the validity of the blind majority membership requirement within the NFB. To cast your vote, please send an e-mail to nabs.memvership at gmail.com. In the subject line of the e-mail, please indicate your choice: Technology, Sports or Philosophy. You have until Monday, May 2 to get your votes in. At that time, the numbers will be tabulated and the topic of choice soon revealed! Additionally, in your e-mail expressing your vote, if you have ideas of guest speakers for the call, (even if that would be you yourself), please let us know. We want to hear from you! Technology, sports or philosophy, which will it be? You decide! Sincerely, Your Nabs Membership Committee Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 14:44:42 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:44:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: <122024A082CF4991B079C323C0C96647@stanford.edu> References: <4db4ea02.0b73650a.278c.09cb@mx.google.com> <122024A082CF4991B079C323C0C96647@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <83042888-9C32-458E-82DD-E576386E4C6B@gmail.com> As far as the Apple products, Voice Over seems to have built-in drivers for braille displays, but I'm not sure how that works. Jorge On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:05 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I just want to make a few points. > > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the technology, but there are still things that you can and will need to do on a computer that you cannot do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. Teachers in secondary school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, but, in college, what passed in secondary school probably will not pass in college. I hardly ever turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. > > I don't think that the person was using the Braille display *instead* of VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple products, but I know that, on windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to act as a driver for a Braille display. > > To answer the question of why you would need both speech and Braille, some things are easier/faster to do listening and some are better done with Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to listen to math. On the other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster than I can read, so I listen to things for which it is not critical that I know every little punctuation mark. > > One last comment about emailing work. In college, most things are not in a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most professors use PDF. Some use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if they do, most use docx files and/or files with formatting that the bn does not support. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions > > >> Hi, guys. >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. I agree with your comment about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the newer versions of the notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, you can do most anything that you could on a computer with your notetaker as it's all computer technology now instead of PDA technology. However, if you're doing a Internet research project or something, the more tools in your toolbox, the better. I know that some sites are accessible to screen readers but not to notetakers, and vice versa. So I would reccomend definitely seeing if you can get both. Now keep in mind, as I said before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the technology you need for you, but you never know. You might need another funding source, like a Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN Foundation that I mentioned in the last email to you. On the display vs notetaker and Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a notetaker over a Braille display for its portability and convenience. I would reccomend a Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on what I've heard about the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB executives was showing me a Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, which he uses for his iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't matter, in my opinion, whether you get a screen reader for your computer or a Braille display. It really serves the same purpose. If you have a screen reader, it's already reading the screen, so why would you need a Braille display, and vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes down to individual preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille until I got the Apex. Now my teachers email homework or classwork to me and I detach it right onto my Braille-Note. I also email my teachers homework as attachments to emails instead of printing them out and labeling them in Braille, which saves a lot of time. I also use the good old thumb drive all the time in school. What's awesome about that is that in the middle of class, my teacher will say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper on it for today." If he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of the worksheet, they can stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it into the notetaker. It's a life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, it's a louder process and you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you prefer. If you have any more questions, let me and the list know. Good luck! >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: David > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions >> >> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in mind. Definitely try to get a >> laptop with a screen reader. I know that some agencies may not purchase >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like screen readers, notetakers, >> etc. But there are always exceptions, it seems. You'll want a powerful >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing speed, as well as a decently >> sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're reasonably good with computers, look >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution with excellent OCR >> accuracy. I believe that it might be better than Kurzweil and OpenBook, and >> you should be able to get it for less than $200. Be aware that OmniPage is >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and Kurzweil, but if you are a decent >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with it. As for the Braille >> display and notetaker, I would personally recommend a notetaker with Braille >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just open it and take notes >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to boot up. I'd get the >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most notetakers can act as >> Braille displays. However, I don't think it's as convenient as a dedicated >> Braille display. Maybe they'll get you both. A Braille embosser would be >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, and that may be a problem >> in a dorm setting. But if you really like using hard-copy Braille, then do >> try getting one. It would be preferable than having to schedule time to use >> the university's. Those are my thoughts. >> David >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other >> college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 >> %40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 15:01:47 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:01:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs Membership Conference Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: technology. On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Liz Bottner wrote: > Greetings fellow students, > > > > For the topic of May's NABS Membership Committee conference call, we of the > Membership Committee turn to you! Three possible topics have come head to > head, and we need a winner. That is where you come in! > > > > The proposed topics are the following: > > 1. A call all about technology and the strategies used to be a successful > student. > > 2. A Sports and Recreational Activities call. > > 3. A call that stemmed from a recent list serve topic questioning the > validity of the blind majority membership requirement within the NFB. > > > > To cast your vote, please send an e-mail to > > nabs.memvership at gmail.com. > > In the subject line of the e-mail, please indicate your choice: Technology, > Sports or Philosophy. > > > > You have until Monday, May 2 to get your votes in. At that time, the numbers > will be tabulated and the topic of choice soon revealed! Additionally, in > your e-mail expressing your vote, if you have ideas of guest speakers for > the call, (even if that would be you yourself), please let us know. We want > to hear from you! > > > > Technology, sports or philosophy, which will it be? You decide! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Your Nabs Membership Committee > > > > Liz Bottner > > Guiding Eyes Graduate Council > > GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 > > e-mail: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 15:58:33 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:58:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> References: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked up to my Netbook. So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. ~Jewel On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Good question. > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file you'd open > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > > Hey all, > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! > > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From davidb521 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 16:02:45 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:02:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4db59b2c.a535ec0a.7de0.ffff8c80@mx.google.com> Hi, I've tried reading books in Duxbury, and have not been satisfied with the results. I honestly think that opening the .brf files in WordPad will be better. The formatting in DBT is just off, whereas in WordPad, it's pretty much like reading the file on a notetaker. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:59 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked up to my Netbook. So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. ~Jewel On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Good question. > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file you'd open > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > > Hey all, > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! > > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Apr 25 16:12:03 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <907947.78852.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Good points Arielle. The only thing I would add is to keep consideration that our technology is expensive and I would hate for any of it to come up missing or stolen. So maybe at first unless you know someone and can trust that person get a single room until you get there and get to know others and have made friends. Maybe second semester or second year you can get a roommate with someone you know. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > From: Arielle Silverman > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM > Hi Jordan and all, > > When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS > counselor and > encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing > application > that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, and > initially I was > assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought to get a > non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single > because I feared > that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As it turned > out, I > brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. If I > could do it > over again, I would never have told housing that I had a > "disability" > or requested a single. I made an effort to socialize with > my > floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the > other girls > on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate > it would > have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. > Nowadays, most > college students come with a computer of some sort and I > think many > also bring a printer. You can get a scanner that's > integrated into > your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer > and > screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment > than your > sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge and also > get a > Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can > easily fit > on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your > equipment is > even more compact. So don't worry about any special > housing > accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. > > Arielle > > On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: > >     I just want to make a few > points. > > > > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the > technology, but there are > > still things that you can and will need to do on a > computer that you cannot > > do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. > Teachers in secondary > > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, > but, in college, what > > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in > college. I hardly ever > > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. > > > >     I don't think that the person > was using the Braille display *instead* of > > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple > products, but I know that, on > > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to > act as a driver for a > > Braille display. > > > >     To answer the question of why > you would need both speech and Braille, > > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some > are better done with > > Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to > listen to math. On the > > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster > than I can read, so I > > listen to things for which it is not critical that I > know every little > > punctuation mark. > > > >     One last comment about > emailing work. In college, most things are not in > > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most > professors use PDF. Some > > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if > they do, most use docx > > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does > not support. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Nusbaum" > > To: ; > "National Association of Blind Students mailing > > list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests > from Rehab andsomeother > > college questions > > > > > >> Hi, guys. > >> > >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions.  > I agree with your comment > >> about the laptop vs the notetaker.  With the > newer versions of the > >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, > you can do most > >> anything that you could on a computer with your > notetaker as it's all > >> computer technology now instead of PDA > technology.  However, if you're > >> doing a Internet research project or something, > the more tools in your > >> toolbox, the better.  I know that some sites > are accessible to screen > >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice > versa.  So I would reccomend > >> definitely seeing if you can get both.  Now > keep in mind, as I said > >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the > technology you need for > >> you, but you never know.  You might need > another funding source, like a > >> Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN > Foundation that I > >> mentioned in the last email to you.  On the > display vs notetaker and > >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a > notetaker over a Braille > >> display for its portability and convenience.  > I would reccomend a > >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on > what I've heard about > >> the Braille-Sense.  However, one of the NFB > executives was showing me a > >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, > which he uses for his > >> iPod instead of VoiceOver.  It really doesn't > matter, in my opinion, > >> whether you get a screen reader for your computer > or a Braille display. > >> It really serves the same purpose.  If you > have a screen reader, it's > >> already reading the screen, so why would you need > a Braille display, and > >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes > down to individual > >> preference.  I used to love hardcopy Braille > until I got the Apex.  Now my > >> > >> teachers email homework or classwork to me and I > detach it right onto my > >> Braille-Note.  I also email my teachers > homework as attachments to emails > >> instead of printing them out and labeling them in > Braille, which saves a > >> lot of time.  I also use the good old thumb > drive all the time in school. > >> What's awesome about that is that in the middle of > class, my teacher will > >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper > on it for today." If > >> he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of > the worksheet, they can > >> > >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it > into the notetaker.  It's a > >> > >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, > it's a louder process and > >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you > prefer.  If you have > >> any more questions, let me and the list > know.  Good luck! > >> > >> Chris Nusbaum > >> > >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp > Abilities motto) > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: David >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" > >> >> Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology > requests from Rehab and > >> someother college questions > >> > >> Hi, Jordyn.  Here are some things to keep in > mind.  Definitely try to get > >> a > >> laptop with a screen reader.  I know that > some agencies may not purchase > >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like > screen readers, > >> notetakers, > >> etc.  But there are always exceptions, it > seems.  You'll want a powerful > >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing > speed, as well as a > >> decently > >> sized hard drive.  As for OCR, if you're > reasonably good with computers, > >> look > >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution > with excellent OCR > >> accuracy.  I believe that it might be better > than Kurzweil and OpenBook, > >> and > >> you should be able to get it for less than > $200.  Be aware that OmniPage > >> is > >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and > Kurzweil, but if you are a > >> decent > >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with > it.  As for the Braille > >> display and notetaker, I would personally > recommend a notetaker with > >> Braille > >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just > open it and take notes > >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to > boot up.  I'd get the > >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most > notetakers can act as > >> Braille displays.  However, I don't think > it's as convenient as a > >> dedicated > >> Braille display.  Maybe they'll get you > both.  A Braille embosser would be > >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, > and that may be a > >> problem > >> in a dorm setting.  But if you really like > using hard-copy Braille, then > >> do > >> try getting one.  It would be preferable than > having to schedule time to > >> use > >> the university's.  Those are my thoughts. > >> David > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf > >> Of Jordyn Castor > >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests > from Rehab and some other > >> college questions > >> > >> Hi again guys! > >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already > said yesterday.  This is > >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be > sure I'm doing > >> everything right, and what better way to do this > then asking other blind > >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice > on everything! > >> My other question is, what are reasonable things > to ask Rehab for in the > >> way of technology? > >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, > Window Eyes, and a > >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like > OpenBook or Kurzweil.  I > >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these > are super expensive. > >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? > What are you all > >> using as far as technology in college? > >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, > borrow technology like > >> an embosser or Braille Display.  Should I use > that rather than asking > >> rehab for some of the things like the display and > the printer? I think > >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm > though lol! > >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a > roommate or a single room? > >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single > rooms because of the > >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I > think.  lol Thoughts? > >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > >> Thanks again, > >> Jordyn > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 > >> %40gmail.co > >> m > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone:  602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 16:22:36 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:22:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: <907947.78852.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <907947.78852.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You can purchase room insurance for relatively cheap. Different campuse have different levels of security, but in my experience dorms tend to be more secure than off campus housing since RA's are on duty and someone is always at the front desk, and only certain students have card access. But it is true that other students might be the biggest threats. I have generally found people to be pretty trust worthy though. There are definitely exceptions to this, but I feel that people are probably at a pretty equal risk of having things stolen from them. Blindness related technology is expensive, but it is also specialized, and I feel like someone looking to steal and sell would want to take something that would be easy to sell and difficult to trace back to its owner. You could definitely talk to your roommate and let them know that you think it is really important that if both of you are gone or sleeping that the door should always be locked. Cindy On 4/25/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Good points Arielle. > The only thing I would add is to keep consideration that our technology is > expensive and I would hate for any of it to come up missing or stolen. So > maybe at first unless you know someone and can trust that person get a > single room until you get there and get to know others and have made > friends. Maybe second semester or second year > you can get a roommate with someone you know. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab >> andsomeother college questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM >> Hi Jordan and all, >> >> When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS >> counselor and >> encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing >> application >> that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, and >> initially I was >> assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought to get a >> non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single >> because I feared >> that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As it turned >> out, I >> brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. If I >> could do it >> over again, I would never have told housing that I had a >> "disability" >> or requested a single. I made an effort to socialize with >> my >> floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the >> other girls >> on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate >> it would >> have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. >> Nowadays, most >> college students come with a computer of some sort and I >> think many >> also bring a printer. You can get a scanner that's >> integrated into >> your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer >> and >> screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment >> than your >> sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge and also >> get a >> Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can >> easily fit >> on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your >> equipment is >> even more compact. So don't worry about any special >> housing >> accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >> >     I just want to make a few >> points. >> > >> > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the >> technology, but there are >> > still things that you can and will need to do on a >> computer that you cannot >> > do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. >> Teachers in secondary >> > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, >> but, in college, what >> > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in >> college. I hardly ever >> > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. >> > >> >     I don't think that the person >> was using the Braille display *instead* of >> > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple >> products, but I know that, on >> > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to >> act as a driver for a >> > Braille display. >> > >> >     To answer the question of why >> you would need both speech and Braille, >> > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some >> are better done with >> > Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to >> listen to math. On the >> > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster >> than I can read, so I >> > listen to things for which it is not critical that I >> know every little >> > punctuation mark. >> > >> >     One last comment about >> emailing work. In college, most things are not in >> > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most >> professors use PDF. Some >> > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if >> they do, most use docx >> > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does >> not support. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> > To: ; >> "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> > list" >> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab andsomeother >> > college questions >> > >> > >> >> Hi, guys. >> >> >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. >> I agree with your comment >> >> about the laptop vs the notetaker.  With the >> newer versions of the >> >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, >> you can do most >> >> anything that you could on a computer with your >> notetaker as it's all >> >> computer technology now instead of PDA >> technology.  However, if you're >> >> doing a Internet research project or something, >> the more tools in your >> >> toolbox, the better.  I know that some sites >> are accessible to screen >> >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice >> versa.  So I would reccomend >> >> definitely seeing if you can get both.  Now >> keep in mind, as I said >> >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the >> technology you need for >> >> you, but you never know.  You might need >> another funding source, like a >> >> Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN >> Foundation that I >> >> mentioned in the last email to you.  On the >> display vs notetaker and >> >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a >> notetaker over a Braille >> >> display for its portability and convenience. >> I would reccomend a >> >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on >> what I've heard about >> >> the Braille-Sense.  However, one of the NFB >> executives was showing me a >> >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, >> which he uses for his >> >> iPod instead of VoiceOver.  It really doesn't >> matter, in my opinion, >> >> whether you get a screen reader for your computer >> or a Braille display. >> >> It really serves the same purpose.  If you >> have a screen reader, it's >> >> already reading the screen, so why would you need >> a Braille display, and >> >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes >> down to individual >> >> preference.  I used to love hardcopy Braille >> until I got the Apex.  Now my >> >> >> >> teachers email homework or classwork to me and I >> detach it right onto my >> >> Braille-Note.  I also email my teachers >> homework as attachments to emails >> >> instead of printing them out and labeling them in >> Braille, which saves a >> >> lot of time.  I also use the good old thumb >> drive all the time in school. >> >> What's awesome about that is that in the middle of >> class, my teacher will >> >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper >> on it for today." If >> >> he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of >> the worksheet, they can >> >> >> >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it >> into the notetaker.  It's a >> >> >> >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, >> it's a louder process and >> >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you >> prefer.  If you have >> >> any more questions, let me and the list >> know.  Good luck! >> >> >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp >> Abilities motto) >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: David > >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list'" >> >> > >> Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology >> requests from Rehab and >> >> someother college questions >> >> >> >> Hi, Jordyn.  Here are some things to keep in >> mind.  Definitely try to get >> >> a >> >> laptop with a screen reader.  I know that >> some agencies may not purchase >> >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like >> screen readers, >> >> notetakers, >> >> etc.  But there are always exceptions, it >> seems.  You'll want a powerful >> >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing >> speed, as well as a >> >> decently >> >> sized hard drive.  As for OCR, if you're >> reasonably good with computers, >> >> look >> >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution >> with excellent OCR >> >> accuracy.  I believe that it might be better >> than Kurzweil and OpenBook, >> >> and >> >> you should be able to get it for less than >> $200.  Be aware that OmniPage >> >> is >> >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and >> Kurzweil, but if you are a >> >> decent >> >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with >> it.  As for the Braille >> >> display and notetaker, I would personally >> recommend a notetaker with >> >> Braille >> >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just >> open it and take notes >> >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to >> boot up.  I'd get the >> >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most >> notetakers can act as >> >> Braille displays.  However, I don't think >> it's as convenient as a >> >> dedicated >> >> Braille display.  Maybe they'll get you >> both.  A Braille embosser would be >> >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, >> and that may be a >> >> problem >> >> in a dorm setting.  But if you really like >> using hard-copy Braille, then >> >> do >> >> try getting one.  It would be preferable than >> having to schedule time to >> >> use >> >> the university's.  Those are my thoughts. >> >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Jordyn Castor >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab and some other >> >> college questions >> >> >> >> Hi again guys! >> >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already >> said yesterday.  This is >> >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be >> sure I'm doing >> >> everything right, and what better way to do this >> then asking other blind >> >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice >> on everything! >> >> My other question is, what are reasonable things >> to ask Rehab for in the >> >> way of technology? >> >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, >> Window Eyes, and a >> >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like >> OpenBook or Kurzweil.  I >> >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these >> are super expensive. >> >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? >> What are you all >> >> using as far as technology in college? >> >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, >> borrow technology like >> >> an embosser or Braille Display.  Should I use >> that rather than asking >> >> rehab for some of the things like the display and >> the printer? I think >> >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm >> though lol! >> >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a >> roommate or a single room? >> >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single >> rooms because of the >> >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I >> think.  lol Thoughts? >> >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Jordyn >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 >> >> %40gmail.co >> >> m >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone:  602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 16:58:56 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:58:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs Membership Conference Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sports! (I tried to mail the nabs email, but I got a permanent mail delivery error) Maybe have Mark Lucas or someone from USABA talk about goalball or other sports they sponsor. On 4/25/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > technology. > > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Liz Bottner wrote: > >> Greetings fellow students, >> >> >> >> For the topic of May's NABS Membership Committee conference call, we of >> the >> Membership Committee turn to you! Three possible topics have come head to >> head, and we need a winner. That is where you come in! >> >> >> >> The proposed topics are the following: >> >> 1. A call all about technology and the strategies used to be a successful >> student. >> >> 2. A Sports and Recreational Activities call. >> >> 3. A call that stemmed from a recent list serve topic questioning the >> validity of the blind majority membership requirement within the NFB. >> >> >> >> To cast your vote, please send an e-mail to >> >> nabs.memvership at gmail.com. >> >> In the subject line of the e-mail, please indicate your choice: >> Technology, >> Sports or Philosophy. >> >> >> >> You have until Monday, May 2 to get your votes in. At that time, the >> numbers >> will be tabulated and the topic of choice soon revealed! Additionally, in >> your e-mail expressing your vote, if you have ideas of guest speakers for >> the call, (even if that would be you yourself), please let us know. We >> want >> to hear from you! >> >> >> >> Technology, sports or philosophy, which will it be? You decide! >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Your Nabs Membership Committee >> >> >> >> Liz Bottner >> >> Guiding Eyes Graduate Council >> >> GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 >> >> e-mail: >> >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From k7uij at panix.com Mon Apr 25 17:27:24 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:27:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: <4db59b2c.a535ec0a.7de0.ffff8c80@mx.google.com> References: <4db59b2c.a535ec0a.7de0.ffff8c80@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1587F366-034E-4481-BEB0-32C6098DD930@panix.com> That's what I thought of suggesting also. Mike Freeman sent from my iPhone On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:02, David wrote: > Hi, > I've tried reading books in Duxbury, and have not been satisfied with the > results. I honestly think that opening the .brf files in WordPad will be > better. The formatting in DBT is just off, whereas in WordPad, it's pretty > much like reading the file on a notetaker. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jewel > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:59 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > > I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked > up to my Netbook. > > So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn > off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple > enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. > ~Jewel > > On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Good question. >> You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file you'd > open >> them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. >> Is the braille display hooked to the computer? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jewel >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display >> >> Hey all, >> Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, >> such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable >> Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books >> instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any >> links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! >> >> ~Jewel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai > l.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Mon Apr 25 17:58:39 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:58:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs Membership Conference Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kirt and all, For anyone having trouble with the e-mail address to send votes for the conference call to, that address again is nabs.membership at gmail.com Thank you, Liz, Co-Chair, Nabs Membership Committee Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Mon Apr 25 18:23:06 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:23:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions References: <907947.78852.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2A68845F2E28447D95E056E8A06EB378@stanford.edu> Security is only relative. Stanford has card swipes on the dorms, and people still get in. And, yes, if you do have a roommate, don't give an inch about the door being locked. I never unlock mine. I just leave it locked and use the key to open it. It's true that people probably are not going to run off with your adaptive technology, but they are not going to know/care that a laptop has a screen reader on it. Either they would get your information off of the laptop or just wipe its memory. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions You can purchase room insurance for relatively cheap. Different campuse have different levels of security, but in my experience dorms tend to be more secure than off campus housing since RA's are on duty and someone is always at the front desk, and only certain students have card access. But it is true that other students might be the biggest threats. I have generally found people to be pretty trust worthy though. There are definitely exceptions to this, but I feel that people are probably at a pretty equal risk of having things stolen from them. Blindness related technology is expensive, but it is also specialized, and I feel like someone looking to steal and sell would want to take something that would be easy to sell and difficult to trace back to its owner. You could definitely talk to your roommate and let them know that you think it is really important that if both of you are gone or sleeping that the door should always be locked. Cindy On 4/25/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Good points Arielle. > The only thing I would add is to keep consideration that our technology is > expensive and I would hate for any of it to come up missing or stolen. So > maybe at first unless you know someone and can trust that person get a > single room until you get there and get to know others and have made > friends. Maybe second semester or second year > you can get a roommate with someone you know. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab >> andsomeother college questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM >> Hi Jordan and all, >> >> When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS >> counselor and >> encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing >> application >> that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, and >> initially I was >> assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought to get a >> non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single >> because I feared >> that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As it turned >> out, I >> brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. If I >> could do it >> over again, I would never have told housing that I had a >> "disability" >> or requested a single. I made an effort to socialize with >> my >> floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the >> other girls >> on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate >> it would >> have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. >> Nowadays, most >> college students come with a computer of some sort and I >> think many >> also bring a printer. You can get a scanner that's >> integrated into >> your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer >> and >> screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment >> than your >> sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge and also >> get a >> Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can >> easily fit >> on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your >> equipment is >> even more compact. So don't worry about any special >> housing >> accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >> > I just want to make a few >> points. >> > >> > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the >> technology, but there are >> > still things that you can and will need to do on a >> computer that you cannot >> > do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. >> Teachers in secondary >> > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, >> but, in college, what >> > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in >> college. I hardly ever >> > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. >> > >> > I don't think that the person >> was using the Braille display *instead* of >> > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple >> products, but I know that, on >> > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to >> act as a driver for a >> > Braille display. >> > >> > To answer the question of why >> you would need both speech and Braille, >> > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some >> are better done with >> > Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to >> listen to math. On the >> > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster >> than I can read, so I >> > listen to things for which it is not critical that I >> know every little >> > punctuation mark. >> > >> > One last comment about >> emailing work. In college, most things are not in >> > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most >> professors use PDF. Some >> > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if >> they do, most use docx >> > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does >> not support. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> > To: ; >> "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> > list" >> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab andsomeother >> > college questions >> > >> > >> >> Hi, guys. >> >> >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. >> I agree with your comment >> >> about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the >> newer versions of the >> >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, >> you can do most >> >> anything that you could on a computer with your >> notetaker as it's all >> >> computer technology now instead of PDA >> technology. However, if you're >> >> doing a Internet research project or something, >> the more tools in your >> >> toolbox, the better. I know that some sites >> are accessible to screen >> >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice >> versa. So I would reccomend >> >> definitely seeing if you can get both. Now >> keep in mind, as I said >> >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the >> technology you need for >> >> you, but you never know. You might need >> another funding source, like a >> >> Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN >> Foundation that I >> >> mentioned in the last email to you. On the >> display vs notetaker and >> >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a >> notetaker over a Braille >> >> display for its portability and convenience. >> I would reccomend a >> >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on >> what I've heard about >> >> the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB >> executives was showing me a >> >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, >> which he uses for his >> >> iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't >> matter, in my opinion, >> >> whether you get a screen reader for your computer >> or a Braille display. >> >> It really serves the same purpose. If you >> have a screen reader, it's >> >> already reading the screen, so why would you need >> a Braille display, and >> >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes >> down to individual >> >> preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille >> until I got the Apex. Now my >> >> >> >> teachers email homework or classwork to me and I >> detach it right onto my >> >> Braille-Note. I also email my teachers >> homework as attachments to emails >> >> instead of printing them out and labeling them in >> Braille, which saves a >> >> lot of time. I also use the good old thumb >> drive all the time in school. >> >> What's awesome about that is that in the middle of >> class, my teacher will >> >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper >> on it for today." If >> >> he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of >> the worksheet, they can >> >> >> >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it >> into the notetaker. It's a >> >> >> >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, >> it's a louder process and >> >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you >> prefer. If you have >> >> any more questions, let me and the list >> know. Good luck! >> >> >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp >> Abilities motto) >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: David > >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list'" >> >> > >> Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology >> requests from Rehab and >> >> someother college questions >> >> >> >> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in >> mind. Definitely try to get >> >> a >> >> laptop with a screen reader. I know that >> some agencies may not purchase >> >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like >> screen readers, >> >> notetakers, >> >> etc. But there are always exceptions, it >> seems. You'll want a powerful >> >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing >> speed, as well as a >> >> decently >> >> sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're >> reasonably good with computers, >> >> look >> >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution >> with excellent OCR >> >> accuracy. I believe that it might be better >> than Kurzweil and OpenBook, >> >> and >> >> you should be able to get it for less than >> $200. Be aware that OmniPage >> >> is >> >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and >> Kurzweil, but if you are a >> >> decent >> >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with >> it. As for the Braille >> >> display and notetaker, I would personally >> recommend a notetaker with >> >> Braille >> >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just >> open it and take notes >> >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to >> boot up. I'd get the >> >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most >> notetakers can act as >> >> Braille displays. However, I don't think >> it's as convenient as a >> >> dedicated >> >> Braille display. Maybe they'll get you >> both. A Braille embosser would be >> >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, >> and that may be a >> >> problem >> >> in a dorm setting. But if you really like >> using hard-copy Braille, then >> >> do >> >> try getting one. It would be preferable than >> having to schedule time to >> >> use >> >> the university's. Those are my thoughts. >> >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Jordyn Castor >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab and some other >> >> college questions >> >> >> >> Hi again guys! >> >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already >> said yesterday. This is >> >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be >> sure I'm doing >> >> everything right, and what better way to do this >> then asking other blind >> >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice >> on everything! >> >> My other question is, what are reasonable things >> to ask Rehab for in the >> >> way of technology? >> >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, >> Window Eyes, and a >> >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like >> OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these >> are super expensive. >> >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? >> What are you all >> >> using as far as technology in college? >> >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, >> borrow technology like >> >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use >> that rather than asking >> >> rehab for some of the things like the display and >> the printer? I think >> >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm >> though lol! >> >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a >> roommate or a single room? >> >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single >> rooms because of the >> >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I >> think. lol Thoughts? >> >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Jordyn >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 >> >> %40gmail.co >> >> m >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 18:29:13 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:29:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Justification letter concerning ONM Message-ID: Can a rehab councilor deny you orientation and mobility, or can they require you to submit a justification letter explaining why you need orientation and mobility training? RJ From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 20:34:14 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:34:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Might be of interest for VoiceOver users of the Mac or iOS devices References: <4db5d9c8.083e970a.1703.016cSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > ---- Original Message ------ > From: Zachary Dreicer Subject: Fwd: Might be of interest for VoiceOver users of the Mac or iOS devices > Date sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:28:16 -0600 > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: John Panarese Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:34:31 -0400 > Subject: Might be of interest for VoiceOver users of the Mac or iOS devices > To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X > by the blind > Hi folks, > First, an apology up front for those who might have seen this > already or are seeing it twice on multiple lists. Additionally, if > this violates any list policies or breaks any rules, I also apologize > in advance and stand guilty of whatever rule breaking this might > constitute. However, as this is VoiceOver related, I figured that I'd > share. > > > > My apologies to anyone who doesn't like these kinds of > "announcement" messages. I usually avoid making them, but in this > case, I think the topic certainly fits the subject of these lists. I > have started a new website that is meant to be a resource place for > blind users of both the Mac and iDevices, and I wanted to invite the > community to both visit it and to definitely feel free to contribute > to it. > > Now, I'll first preface this by saying that I know there are more > than a few sites out there that are about the Mac or iDevices in > regard to their use by blind individuals. In fact, I have used more > than a few to help me over the years in my efforts to learn how to > utilize all of my Apple products. They are all done quite well, and I > have a great deal of respect and admiration for the folks who maintain > them. Understand that I am not intending on competing or outdoing any > single one of them, and, instead, want mine to be an additional > resource out there for the new, experienced or potential user. We are > seeing a growing number of iPhone and iDevice users that is leading to > adoption of the Mac, and with all the frequent questions that are > consistently posed on the email lists, I wanted to gather material and > information to address these areas in one place where people can > benefit from the efforts of the community. > > You will see that it is done in a blog style. This is for two > reasons. Firstly, I want it to be a very community driven site in > which the users contribute their own information and material, and, > subsequently, become a part of it by posting their comments and > helping it grow. Also, from the perspective of a guy who is not, by > trade, a web designer, the Word Press setup is easy to maintain and > update without having to bother my webmaster every other day. > > I can't emphasize enough the importance of having you guys > choose to help out. I have collected quite a bit of material for > reading and even downloading over the years, which has also kindly > been contributed with permission by various folks already. Please > take a long look at the site and provide us with feedback. Yes, you > will see that there are areas that are quite lacking, but this is > where the community will come into play. I have put in place the > foundation and structure of the site, but my goal is to have you guys > provide the building blocks and material that will construct it into > something more and more each passing day. > > So not to clutter your inbox any more, you will read in my > opening few posts on the blog as to what it is we are looking for and > how to contribute to our effort. Please feel free to look it all over > and provide us with feedback. Let us know what we are missing, what > we could do better and, most importantly, please contribute with > additional information and even your questions. Any and all > suggestions would be appreciated, and we hope that you guys will > assist us in making it a comprehensive and diverse place for the blind > Mac, iPhone, iPad or iPod user. > > You can visit us here, > > http://www.macfortheblind.com > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > To post to this group, send email to viphone at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. From dandrews at visi.com Mon Apr 25 20:39:48 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:39:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: References: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: You could also display it in notepad, word pad etc., and you should be able to read the grade 2 braille fine. You might need to shut up speech, but it should look fine on display. Dave At 10:58 AM 4/25/2011, you wrote: >I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked >up to my Netbook. > >So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn >off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple >enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. >~Jewel > >On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > Good question. > > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file > you'd open > > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. > > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jewel > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > > > > Hey all, > > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, > > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable > > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books > > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any > > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! > > > > ~Jewel David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 25 21:37:39 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:37:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions In-Reply-To: <2A68845F2E28447D95E056E8A06EB378@stanford.edu> References: <907947.78852.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2A68845F2E28447D95E056E8A06EB378@stanford.edu> Message-ID: When I was in school, I kept it locked. The roommate had a key too; so we both got in when we needed to. -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions Security is only relative. Stanford has card swipes on the dorms, and people still get in. And, yes, if you do have a roommate, don't give an inch about the door being locked. I never unlock mine. I just leave it locked and use the key to open it. It's true that people probably are not going to run off with your adaptive technology, but they are not going to know/care that a laptop has a screen reader on it. Either they would get your information off of the laptop or just wipe its memory. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions You can purchase room insurance for relatively cheap. Different campuse have different levels of security, but in my experience dorms tend to be more secure than off campus housing since RA's are on duty and someone is always at the front desk, and only certain students have card access. But it is true that other students might be the biggest threats. I have generally found people to be pretty trust worthy though. There are definitely exceptions to this, but I feel that people are probably at a pretty equal risk of having things stolen from them. Blindness related technology is expensive, but it is also specialized, and I feel like someone looking to steal and sell would want to take something that would be easy to sell and difficult to trace back to its owner. You could definitely talk to your roommate and let them know that you think it is really important that if both of you are gone or sleeping that the door should always be locked. Cindy On 4/25/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Good points Arielle. > The only thing I would add is to keep consideration that our technology is > expensive and I would hate for any of it to come up missing or stolen. So > maybe at first unless you know someone and can trust that person get a > single room until you get there and get to know others and have made > friends. Maybe second semester or second year > you can get a roommate with someone you know. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab >> andsomeother college questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM >> Hi Jordan and all, >> >> When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS >> counselor and >> encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing >> application >> that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, and >> initially I was >> assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought to get a >> non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single >> because I feared >> that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As it turned >> out, I >> brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. If I >> could do it >> over again, I would never have told housing that I had a >> "disability" >> or requested a single. I made an effort to socialize with >> my >> floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the >> other girls >> on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate >> it would >> have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. >> Nowadays, most >> college students come with a computer of some sort and I >> think many >> also bring a printer. You can get a scanner that's >> integrated into >> your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer >> and >> screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment >> than your >> sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge and also >> get a >> Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can >> easily fit >> on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your >> equipment is >> even more compact. So don't worry about any special >> housing >> accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >> > I just want to make a few >> points. >> > >> > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the >> technology, but there are >> > still things that you can and will need to do on a >> computer that you cannot >> > do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. >> Teachers in secondary >> > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, >> but, in college, what >> > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in >> college. I hardly ever >> > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. >> > >> > I don't think that the person >> was using the Braille display *instead* of >> > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple >> products, but I know that, on >> > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to >> act as a driver for a >> > Braille display. >> > >> > To answer the question of why >> you would need both speech and Braille, >> > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some >> are better done with >> > Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to >> listen to math. On the >> > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster >> than I can read, so I >> > listen to things for which it is not critical that I >> know every little >> > punctuation mark. >> > >> > One last comment about >> emailing work. In college, most things are not in >> > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most >> professors use PDF. Some >> > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if >> they do, most use docx >> > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does >> not support. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> > To: ; >> "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> > list" >> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab andsomeother >> > college questions >> > >> > >> >> Hi, guys. >> >> >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. >> I agree with your comment >> >> about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the >> newer versions of the >> >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, >> you can do most >> >> anything that you could on a computer with your >> notetaker as it's all >> >> computer technology now instead of PDA >> technology. However, if you're >> >> doing a Internet research project or something, >> the more tools in your >> >> toolbox, the better. I know that some sites >> are accessible to screen >> >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice >> versa. So I would reccomend >> >> definitely seeing if you can get both. Now >> keep in mind, as I said >> >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the >> technology you need for >> >> you, but you never know. You might need >> another funding source, like a >> >> Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN >> Foundation that I >> >> mentioned in the last email to you. On the >> display vs notetaker and >> >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a >> notetaker over a Braille >> >> display for its portability and convenience. >> I would reccomend a >> >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on >> what I've heard about >> >> the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB >> executives was showing me a >> >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, >> which he uses for his >> >> iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't >> matter, in my opinion, >> >> whether you get a screen reader for your computer >> or a Braille display. >> >> It really serves the same purpose. If you >> have a screen reader, it's >> >> already reading the screen, so why would you need >> a Braille display, and >> >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes >> down to individual >> >> preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille >> until I got the Apex. Now my >> >> >> >> teachers email homework or classwork to me and I >> detach it right onto my >> >> Braille-Note. I also email my teachers >> homework as attachments to emails >> >> instead of printing them out and labeling them in >> Braille, which saves a >> >> lot of time. I also use the good old thumb >> drive all the time in school. >> >> What's awesome about that is that in the middle of >> class, my teacher will >> >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper >> on it for today." If >> >> he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of >> the worksheet, they can >> >> >> >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it >> into the notetaker. It's a >> >> >> >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, >> it's a louder process and >> >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you >> prefer. If you have >> >> any more questions, let me and the list >> know. Good luck! >> >> >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp >> Abilities motto) >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: David > >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list'" >> >> > >> Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology >> requests from Rehab and >> >> someother college questions >> >> >> >> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in >> mind. Definitely try to get >> >> a >> >> laptop with a screen reader. I know that >> some agencies may not purchase >> >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like >> screen readers, >> >> notetakers, >> >> etc. But there are always exceptions, it >> seems. You'll want a powerful >> >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing >> speed, as well as a >> >> decently >> >> sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're >> reasonably good with computers, >> >> look >> >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution >> with excellent OCR >> >> accuracy. I believe that it might be better >> than Kurzweil and OpenBook, >> >> and >> >> you should be able to get it for less than >> $200. Be aware that OmniPage >> >> is >> >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and >> Kurzweil, but if you are a >> >> decent >> >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with >> it. As for the Braille >> >> display and notetaker, I would personally >> recommend a notetaker with >> >> Braille >> >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just >> open it and take notes >> >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to >> boot up. I'd get the >> >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most >> notetakers can act as >> >> Braille displays. However, I don't think >> it's as convenient as a >> >> dedicated >> >> Braille display. Maybe they'll get you >> both. A Braille embosser would be >> >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, >> and that may be a >> >> problem >> >> in a dorm setting. But if you really like >> using hard-copy Braille, then >> >> do >> >> try getting one. It would be preferable than >> having to schedule time to >> >> use >> >> the university's. Those are my thoughts. >> >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Jordyn Castor >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab and some other >> >> college questions >> >> >> >> Hi again guys! >> >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already >> said yesterday. This is >> >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be >> sure I'm doing >> >> everything right, and what better way to do this >> then asking other blind >> >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice >> on everything! >> >> My other question is, what are reasonable things >> to ask Rehab for in the >> >> way of technology? >> >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, >> Window Eyes, and a >> >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like >> OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these >> are super expensive. >> >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? >> What are you all >> >> using as far as technology in college? >> >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, >> borrow technology like >> >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use >> that rather than asking >> >> rehab for some of the things like the display and >> the printer? I think >> >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm >> though lol! >> >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a >> roommate or a single room? >> >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single >> rooms because of the >> >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I >> think. lol Thoughts? >> >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Jordyn >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 >> >> %40gmail.co >> >> m >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 25 21:40:08 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:40:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: References: <907947.78852.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0E56CE0DA28C42188A6B04DF13125E4A@OwnerPC> Yep; dorms are more secure. Only dorm students have card access and only you and your roommate have a key to the room. -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions You can purchase room insurance for relatively cheap. Different campuse have different levels of security, but in my experience dorms tend to be more secure than off campus housing since RA's are on duty and someone is always at the front desk, and only certain students have card access. But it is true that other students might be the biggest threats. I have generally found people to be pretty trust worthy though. There are definitely exceptions to this, but I feel that people are probably at a pretty equal risk of having things stolen from them. Blindness related technology is expensive, but it is also specialized, and I feel like someone looking to steal and sell would want to take something that would be easy to sell and difficult to trace back to its owner. You could definitely talk to your roommate and let them know that you think it is really important that if both of you are gone or sleeping that the door should always be locked. Cindy On 4/25/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Good points Arielle. > The only thing I would add is to keep consideration that our technology is > expensive and I would hate for any of it to come up missing or stolen. So > maybe at first unless you know someone and can trust that person get a > single room until you get there and get to know others and have made > friends. Maybe second semester or second year > you can get a roommate with someone you know. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab >> andsomeother college questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM >> Hi Jordan and all, >> >> When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS >> counselor and >> encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing >> application >> that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, and >> initially I was >> assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought to get a >> non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single >> because I feared >> that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As it turned >> out, I >> brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. If I >> could do it >> over again, I would never have told housing that I had a >> "disability" >> or requested a single. I made an effort to socialize with >> my >> floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the >> other girls >> on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate >> it would >> have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. >> Nowadays, most >> college students come with a computer of some sort and I >> think many >> also bring a printer. You can get a scanner that's >> integrated into >> your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer >> and >> screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment >> than your >> sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge and also >> get a >> Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can >> easily fit >> on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your >> equipment is >> even more compact. So don't worry about any special >> housing >> accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >> > I just want to make a few >> points. >> > >> > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the >> technology, but there are >> > still things that you can and will need to do on a >> computer that you cannot >> > do on a notetaker. One of these things is formatting. >> Teachers in secondary >> > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, >> but, in college, what >> > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in >> college. I hardly ever >> > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. >> > >> > I don't think that the person >> was using the Braille display *instead* of >> > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on Apple >> products, but I know that, on >> > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to >> act as a driver for a >> > Braille display. >> > >> > To answer the question of why >> you would need both speech and Braille, >> > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some >> are better done with >> > Braille. For example, I would find it very hard to >> listen to math. On the >> > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster >> than I can read, so I >> > listen to things for which it is not critical that I >> know every little >> > punctuation mark. >> > >> > One last comment about >> emailing work. In college, most things are not in >> > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. Most >> professors use PDF. Some >> > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. Even if >> they do, most use docx >> > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does >> not support. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> > To: ; >> "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> > list" >> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab andsomeother >> > college questions >> > >> > >> >> Hi, guys. >> >> >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions. >> I agree with your comment >> >> about the laptop vs the notetaker. With the >> newer versions of the >> >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, >> you can do most >> >> anything that you could on a computer with your >> notetaker as it's all >> >> computer technology now instead of PDA >> technology. However, if you're >> >> doing a Internet research project or something, >> the more tools in your >> >> toolbox, the better. I know that some sites >> are accessible to screen >> >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice >> versa. So I would reccomend >> >> definitely seeing if you can get both. Now >> keep in mind, as I said >> >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the >> technology you need for >> >> you, but you never know. You might need >> another funding source, like a >> >> Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN >> Foundation that I >> >> mentioned in the last email to you. On the >> display vs notetaker and >> >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a >> notetaker over a Braille >> >> display for its portability and convenience. >> I would reccomend a >> >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on >> what I've heard about >> >> the Braille-Sense. However, one of the NFB >> executives was showing me a >> >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, >> which he uses for his >> >> iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really doesn't >> matter, in my opinion, >> >> whether you get a screen reader for your computer >> or a Braille display. >> >> It really serves the same purpose. If you >> have a screen reader, it's >> >> already reading the screen, so why would you need >> a Braille display, and >> >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes >> down to individual >> >> preference. I used to love hardcopy Braille >> until I got the Apex. Now my >> >> >> >> teachers email homework or classwork to me and I >> detach it right onto my >> >> Braille-Note. I also email my teachers >> homework as attachments to emails >> >> instead of printing them out and labeling them in >> Braille, which saves a >> >> lot of time. I also use the good old thumb >> drive all the time in school. >> >> What's awesome about that is that in the middle of >> class, my teacher will >> >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper >> on it for today." If >> >> he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of >> the worksheet, they can >> >> >> >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it >> into the notetaker. It's a >> >> >> >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, >> it's a louder process and >> >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you >> prefer. If you have >> >> any more questions, let me and the list >> know. Good luck! >> >> >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp >> Abilities motto) >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: David > >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list'" >> >> > >> Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology >> requests from Rehab and >> >> someother college questions >> >> >> >> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep in >> mind. Definitely try to get >> >> a >> >> laptop with a screen reader. I know that >> some agencies may not purchase >> >> computers, but rather the adaptive devices like >> screen readers, >> >> notetakers, >> >> etc. But there are always exceptions, it >> seems. You'll want a powerful >> >> computer with quite a bit of ram and processing >> speed, as well as a >> >> decently >> >> sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're >> reasonably good with computers, >> >> look >> >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution >> with excellent OCR >> >> accuracy. I believe that it might be better >> than Kurzweil and OpenBook, >> >> and >> >> you should be able to get it for less than >> $200. Be aware that OmniPage >> >> is >> >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and >> Kurzweil, but if you are a >> >> decent >> >> computer user, you'll have little trouble with >> it. As for the Braille >> >> display and notetaker, I would personally >> recommend a notetaker with >> >> Braille >> >> output, since it's very portable, and you can just >> open it and take notes >> >> immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to >> boot up. I'd get the >> >> notetaker before the Braille display, since most >> notetakers can act as >> >> Braille displays. However, I don't think >> it's as convenient as a >> >> dedicated >> >> Braille display. Maybe they'll get you >> both. A Braille embosser would be >> >> nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, >> and that may be a >> >> problem >> >> in a dorm setting. But if you really like >> using hard-copy Braille, then >> >> do >> >> try getting one. It would be preferable than >> having to schedule time to >> >> use >> >> the university's. Those are my thoughts. >> >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Jordyn Castor >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests >> from Rehab and some other >> >> college questions >> >> >> >> Hi again guys! >> >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already >> said yesterday. This is >> >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be >> sure I'm doing >> >> everything right, and what better way to do this >> then asking other blind >> >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice >> on everything! >> >> My other question is, what are reasonable things >> to ask Rehab for in the >> >> way of technology? >> >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, >> Window Eyes, and a >> >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like >> OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these >> are super expensive. >> >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? >> What are you all >> >> using as far as technology in college? >> >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, >> borrow technology like >> >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use >> that rather than asking >> >> rehab for some of the things like the display and >> the printer? I think >> >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm >> though lol! >> >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a >> roommate or a single room? >> >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single >> rooms because of the >> >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I >> think. lol Thoughts? >> >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Jordyn >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 >> >> %40gmail.co >> >> m >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Apr 25 23:40:15 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:40:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] technology question In-Reply-To: <19DEFF9122D644D798A74F28CE1CB344@Espy> References: <19DEFF9122D644D798A74F28CE1CB344@Espy> Message-ID: <18539636-AABF-4911-B7BB-50360E136201@gmail.com> No unfortunately. On Apr 22, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Hope Paulos wrote: > Can you contact your local lions club for assistance? > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:29 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] technology question > > >> Hi NABsters: >> As some of you know, I'vee been looking for some sort of scanning device lately, as well as having OCR on my computer in case I need to hand-scan anything (a skill I want to learn soon for any emergencies/scanning I'd have to do on my own), >> and I've been looking at the OpenBook/Pearl set up. >> Here's my issue though: >> My parrents asked the commission but since I'm in high school and still with the board of ed, the commission says its not their responsability, >> but I know the board of ed won't pay for things at home. >> What can I do? >> >> I mean--I have JFW from them but that's because its on my IEP, and I know they won't go outside their mandates, but the commission isn't doing anything either. >> What can I do? >> I'd be willing to pay for part of it, but I need help. >> >> Thanks for any advice. >> >> Jorge >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 00:05:58 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:05:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or something. I also have a Booksense. I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions if you want. Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in class? Thanks again, Jordyn On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Gordyn, > Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college > goals. > Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a > regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry > about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take > notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. > Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? > If so, you already have a braille display. > I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. > > The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are > personal preference. > Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. > But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my > family is supportive. > > What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more > expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. > So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money > on it? Something to think about. > In VA I don't know one college student who got a > 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR > software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or > BrailleNote. > Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a > common request. If you need it, go ahead though. > But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for > a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". > > Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a > guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate > because of allergies or something. > Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or > something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long > as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever > freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some > other college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > From davidb521 at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 00:09:34 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:09:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com> I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from taking notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high school all the time, and will continue to do so in college. If you're not completely set on Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the PAC Mate. You could use the PAC Mate Braille display on your computer that way, as Window Eyes does not support it. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordyn Castor Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or something. I also have a Booksense. I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions if you want. Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in class? Thanks again, Jordyn On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Gordyn, > Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college > goals. > Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a > regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry > about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take > notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. > Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? > If so, you already have a braille display. > I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. > > The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are > personal preference. > Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. > But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my > family is supportive. > > What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more > expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. > So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money > on it? Something to think about. > In VA I don't know one college student who got a > 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR > software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or > BrailleNote. > Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a > common request. If you need it, go ahead though. > But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for > a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". > > Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a > guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate > because of allergies or something. > Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or > something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long > as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever > freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some > other college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.c om > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Apr 26 00:10:43 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:10:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because of software failure? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell display > which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in class since > it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty out of date and > I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or something. I also > have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just > so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of > variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What > do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate > and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I > really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, > just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions if > you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in > class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >> goals. >> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes >> on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >> If so, you already have a braille display. >> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >> >> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >> personal preference. >> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I >> already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is >> supportive. >> >> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on >> it? Something to think about. >> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >> BrailleNote. >> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common >> request. If you need it, go ahead though. >> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a >> screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >> >> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >> because of allergies or something. >> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as >> you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live >> and don't let blindness be a barrier. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From trising at sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 26 00:24:03 2011 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:24:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2253E7939FEC4340B89A3311D4FF4F2D@user6389c7a3c9> Nick and I think the Pacmate is quiet at taking notes. I believe it is quieter than someone who can use a slate and stylus quickly. Terri Wilcox I would definitely keep the Pacmate and display, but that is just my opinion. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2069 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 00:33:19 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:33:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com> References: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4DB612CF.2020005@gmail.com> Window Eyes does support the PAC Mate braille display. On 4/25/2011 8:09 PM, David wrote: > I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from taking > notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high school all the time, > and will continue to do so in college. If you're not completely set on > Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the PAC Mate. You could use the PAC > Mate Braille display on your computer that way, as Window Eyes does not > support it. > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jordyn Castor > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some > other college questions > > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell > display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in > class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty > out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or > something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just > so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of > variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What > do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate > and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I > really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, > just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions > if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in > class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >> goals. >> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take >> notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >> If so, you already have a braille display. >> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >> >> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >> personal preference. >> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >> family is supportive. >> >> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money >> on it? Something to think about. >> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >> BrailleNote. >> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for >> a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >> >> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >> because of allergies or something. >> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long >> as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.c > om > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 00:36:44 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:36:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> I honestly think the PAC Mate crashes less on the Braille keyboard models then on the actual keyboard models. I have a computer style one at school and it crashes all the time! I haven't had to send it in because of software failures. I just usually do a clean reset of the unit and it works wonderfully. I also have the newest version of the PAC Mate so don't know if that makes a difference as I've heard of the earlier models having more problems which doesn't surprise me lol. On 4/25/2011 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because > of software failure? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and > some other college questions > > >> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes >> or something. I also have a Booksense. >> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, >> just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with >> a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! >> What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the >> PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading >> and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus >> PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list >> with your opinions if you want. >> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker >> in class? >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Gordyn, >>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your >>> college goals. >>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing >>> a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to >>> worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to >>> take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>> >>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>> personal preference. >>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>> family is supportive. >>> >>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much >>> money on it? Something to think about. >>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, >>> OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate >>> or BrailleNote. >>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid >>> for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>> >>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>> because of allergies or something. >>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement >>> or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as >>> long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>> other college questions >>> >>> Hi again guys! >>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>> blind >>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>> the >>> way of technology? >>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or >>> Kurzweil. I >>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>> using as far as technology in college? >>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>> like >>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 00:52:33 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:52:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> <4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have used both, and I do love that there is a way to reset the Braille Note without erasing material. When I used the PacMate back in high school, there was not a way to do this, and it crashed quite regularly. But I had one of the first versions of the PacMate, and it could be much better now. I would stick with what you're used to. But if there isn't a way to reset your PacMate without erasing material, you should backup your files on a very very regular basis. Cindy On 4/25/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: > I honestly think the PAC Mate crashes less on the Braille keyboard > models then on the actual keyboard models. I have a computer style one > at school and it crashes all the time! I haven't had to send it in > because of software failures. I just usually do a clean reset of the > unit and it works wonderfully. I also have the newest version of the PAC > Mate so don't know if that makes a difference as I've heard of the > earlier models having more problems which doesn't surprise me lol. > On 4/25/2011 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because >> of software failure? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and >> some other college questions >> >> >>> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >>> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >>> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >>> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes >>> or something. I also have a Booksense. >>> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, >>> just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with >>> a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >>> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! >>> What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the >>> PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading >>> and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus >>> PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list >>> with your opinions if you want. >>> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker >>> in class? >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Gordyn, >>>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your >>>> college goals. >>>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing >>>> a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to >>>> worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to >>>> take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>>> >>>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>>> personal preference. >>>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>>> family is supportive. >>>> >>>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much >>>> money on it? Something to think about. >>>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, >>>> OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate >>>> or BrailleNote. >>>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid >>>> for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>>> >>>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>>> because of allergies or something. >>>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement >>>> or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as >>>> long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>>> Ashley >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>>> other college questions >>>> >>>> Hi again guys! >>>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>>> blind >>>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>>> the >>>> way of technology? >>>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or >>>> Kurzweil. I >>>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>>> using as far as technology in college? >>>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>>> like >>>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>>> Thanks again, >>>> Jordyn >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 01:03:56 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:03:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> <4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DB619FC.7050500@gmail.com> The PAC Mate is much, much better now. On 4/25/2011 8:52 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I have used both, and I do love that there is a way to reset the > Braille Note without erasing material. When I used the PacMate back in > high school, there was not a way to do this, and it crashed quite > regularly. But I had one of the first versions of the PacMate, and it > could be much better now. I would stick with what you're used to. But > if there isn't a way to reset your PacMate without erasing material, > you should backup your files on a very very regular basis. > > Cindy > > On 4/25/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: >> I honestly think the PAC Mate crashes less on the Braille keyboard >> models then on the actual keyboard models. I have a computer style one >> at school and it crashes all the time! I haven't had to send it in >> because of software failures. I just usually do a clean reset of the >> unit and it works wonderfully. I also have the newest version of the PAC >> Mate so don't know if that makes a difference as I've heard of the >> earlier models having more problems which doesn't surprise me lol. >> On 4/25/2011 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because >>> of software failure? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and >>> some other college questions >>> >>> >>>> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >>>> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >>>> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >>>> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes >>>> or something. I also have a Booksense. >>>> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, >>>> just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with >>>> a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >>>> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! >>>> What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the >>>> PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading >>>> and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus >>>> PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list >>>> with your opinions if you want. >>>> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker >>>> in class? >>>> Thanks again, >>>> Jordyn >>>> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> Gordyn, >>>>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your >>>>> college goals. >>>>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing >>>>> a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to >>>>> worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to >>>>> take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>>>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>>>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>>>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>>>> >>>>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>>>> personal preference. >>>>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>>>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>>>> family is supportive. >>>>> >>>>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>>>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>>>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much >>>>> money on it? Something to think about. >>>>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>>>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, >>>>> OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate >>>>> or BrailleNote. >>>>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>>>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>>>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid >>>>> for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>>>> >>>>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>>>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>>>> because of allergies or something. >>>>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement >>>>> or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as >>>>> long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>>>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>>>> other college questions >>>>> >>>>> Hi again guys! >>>>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>>>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>>>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>>>> blind >>>>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>>>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>>>> the >>>>> way of technology? >>>>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>>>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or >>>>> Kurzweil. I >>>>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>>>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>>>> using as far as technology in college? >>>>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>>>> like >>>>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>>>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>>>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>>>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>>>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>>>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>>>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>>>> Thanks again, >>>>> Jordyn >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 01:09:18 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:09:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com> <181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5BAC86F2-A454-4C3D-92B9-FD793E1EC304@gmail.com> Have a braillenote. Seems like the pacmate's better though? I mean I"m fine with what I have but it seems like Pacmate offers more in terms of aps and such. Jorge On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Jordyn Castor wrote: > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college goals. >> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >> If so, you already have a braille display. >> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >> >> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are personal preference. >> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is supportive. >> >> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on it? Something to think about. >> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or BrailleNote. >> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >> >> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate because of allergies or something. >> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 01:10:15 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:10:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com> References: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <27DF0ED4-B82D-413B-9BB1-68D13C87EEB3@gmail.com> That's true, I think JFW is ten times better then Window Eyes. I've tried both, but JFW does seem more responsive. Jorge On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:09 PM, David wrote: > I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from taking > notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high school all the time, > and will continue to do so in college. If you're not completely set on > Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the PAC Mate. You could use the PAC > Mate Braille display on your computer that way, as Window Eyes does not > support it. > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jordyn Castor > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some > other college questions > > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell > display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in > class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty > out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or > something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just > so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of > variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What > do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate > and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I > really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, > just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions > if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in > class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >> goals. >> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take >> notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >> If so, you already have a braille display. >> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >> >> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >> personal preference. >> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >> family is supportive. >> >> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money >> on it? Something to think about. >> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >> BrailleNote. >> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for >> a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >> >> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >> because of allergies or something. >> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long >> as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.c > om >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 01:10:54 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:10:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> <70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4A1714D5-4006-4E80-A63F-7178A1C9740E@gmail.com> I have heard its supposed to be a lot more stable now. I remember having to send in my Braille Lite all the time--but I think the Pacmate is more stable. Jorge On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because of software failure? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions > > >> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or something. I also have a Booksense. >> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions if you want. >> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in class? >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Gordyn, >>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college goals. >>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>> >>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are personal preference. >>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is supportive. >>> >>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on it? Something to think about. >>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or BrailleNote. >>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>> >>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate because of allergies or something. >>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions >>> >>> Hi again guys! >>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >>> way of technology? >>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>> using as far as technology in college? >>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Apr 26 01:43:26 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:43:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com><70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu> <4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's ultimately up to you. If you have a system that works and you are happy with what you have, then you could just stay with that. However, there is one more thing to consider. How old is your PacMate? The Apex is relatively new. Although it does not have everything, it has potential to grow which older devices may not have. Also, it seems to be that if you are going to get technology from rehab, now is the time to do it upon entering college. I don't think that rehab usually gets different technology once you're in college unless there is a new release and your current technology no longer does the job. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions >I honestly think the PAC Mate crashes less on the Braille keyboard models >then on the actual keyboard models. I have a computer style one at school >and it crashes all the time! I haven't had to send it in because of >software failures. I just usually do a clean reset of the unit and it works >wonderfully. I also have the newest version of the PAC Mate so don't know >if that makes a difference as I've heard of the earlier models having more >problems which doesn't surprise me lol. > On 4/25/2011 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because of >> software failure? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> >>> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >>> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >>> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >>> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or >>> something. I also have a Booksense. >>> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just >>> so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of >>> variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >>> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What >>> do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate >>> and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I >>> really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, >>> just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions >>> if you want. >>> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in >>> class? >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Gordyn, >>>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >>>> goals. >>>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >>>> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >>>> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take >>>> notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>>> >>>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>>> personal preference. >>>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But >>>> I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family >>>> is supportive. >>>> >>>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money >>>> on it? Something to think about. >>>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >>>> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >>>> BrailleNote. >>>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common >>>> request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a >>>> screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>>> >>>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>>> because of allergies or something. >>>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >>>> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long >>>> as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman >>>> live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>>> Ashley >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>>> other college questions >>>> >>>> Hi again guys! >>>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>>> blind >>>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>>> the >>>> way of technology? >>>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. >>>> I >>>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>>> using as far as technology in college? >>>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>>> like >>>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>>> Thanks again, >>>> Jordyn >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 26 01:52:07 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:52:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC> <4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A95856FF08F4027933D32CF20FB90BB@OwnerPC> Jordyn, I can't speak to the Pacmate, but the Braille Note is a little noisy but not bad. The person beside you may hear it, but no one else. Its no louder than someone typing on a laptop. Good luck with your decission. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or something. I also have a Booksense. I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions if you want. Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in class? Thanks again, Jordyn On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Gordyn, > Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college > goals. > Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a > regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry > about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes > on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. > Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? > If so, you already have a braille display. > I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. > > The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are > personal preference. > Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I > already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is > supportive. > > What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more expensive > than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. > So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on > it? Something to think about. > In VA I don't know one college student who got a > 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR > software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or > BrailleNote. > Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common > request. If you need it, go ahead though. > But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a > screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". > > Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a guide > dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate because of > allergies or something. > Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or > something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as > you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live > and don't let blindness be a barrier. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other > college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Apr 26 02:01:37 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:01:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC><4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com> <0A95856FF08F4027933D32CF20FB90BB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: And I've heard that the Apex is supposed to be quieter than the older models. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions > Jordyn, > I can't speak to the Pacmate, but the Braille Note is a little noisy but > not bad. The person beside you may hear it, but no one else. Its no > louder than someone typing on a laptop. > > Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some > other college questions > > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell > display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in > class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty > out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or > something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just > so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of > variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What > do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate > and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I > really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, > just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions > if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in > class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >> goals. >> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes >> on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >> If so, you already have a braille display. >> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >> >> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >> personal preference. >> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I >> already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is >> supportive. >> >> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on >> it? Something to think about. >> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >> BrailleNote. >> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common >> request. If you need it, go ahead though. >> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a >> screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >> >> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >> because of allergies or something. >> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as >> you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live >> and don't let blindness be a barrier. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 26 02:06:51 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:06:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC><4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com><70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu><4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A777E3FA8AD4077A5C43091660B02A0@OwnerPC> Ditto. I have reset the BrailleNote without erasing material. Its very helpful sometimes; I do backup material, but sometimes you need the reset when you're in the middle of something. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions I have used both, and I do love that there is a way to reset the Braille Note without erasing material. When I used the PacMate back in high school, there was not a way to do this, and it crashed quite regularly. But I had one of the first versions of the PacMate, and it could be much better now. I would stick with what you're used to. But if there isn't a way to reset your PacMate without erasing material, you should backup your files on a very very regular basis. Cindy On 4/25/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: > I honestly think the PAC Mate crashes less on the Braille keyboard > models then on the actual keyboard models. I have a computer style one > at school and it crashes all the time! I haven't had to send it in > because of software failures. I just usually do a clean reset of the > unit and it works wonderfully. I also have the newest version of the PAC > Mate so don't know if that makes a difference as I've heard of the > earlier models having more problems which doesn't surprise me lol. > On 4/25/2011 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because >> of software failure? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and >> some other college questions >> >> >>> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >>> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >>> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >>> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes >>> or something. I also have a Booksense. >>> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, >>> just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with >>> a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >>> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! >>> What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the >>> PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading >>> and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus >>> PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list >>> with your opinions if you want. >>> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker >>> in class? >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Gordyn, >>>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your >>>> college goals. >>>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing >>>> a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to >>>> worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to >>>> take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>>> >>>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>>> personal preference. >>>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>>> family is supportive. >>>> >>>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much >>>> money on it? Something to think about. >>>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, >>>> OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate >>>> or BrailleNote. >>>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid >>>> for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>>> >>>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>>> because of allergies or something. >>>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement >>>> or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as >>>> long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>>> Ashley >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>>> other college questions >>>> >>>> Hi again guys! >>>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>>> blind >>>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>>> the >>>> way of technology? >>>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or >>>> Kurzweil. I >>>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>>> using as far as technology in college? >>>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>>> like >>>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>>> Thanks again, >>>> Jordyn >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 26 02:22:18 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:22:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC><4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com><0A95856FF08F4027933D32CF20FB90BB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Nicole, Yes, I tried the Apex as a demo. Its definitely quieter than older models! Human ware has improve it so much. I had my first Braille Note and it was loud and the keys sounded like clicking sounds; same with the display. My m'power is much improved in its quietness. The Apex is even better. So its improved over the years. I recon the PacMate has gotten quieter too with new models; after all FS tries to be competetive. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:01 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions And I've heard that the Apex is supposed to be quieter than the older models. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions > Jordyn, > I can't speak to the Pacmate, but the Braille Note is a little noisy but > not bad. The person beside you may hear it, but no one else. Its no > louder than someone typing on a laptop. > > Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:05 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some > other college questions > > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell > display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in > class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty > out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or > something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just > so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of > variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What > do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate > and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I > really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, > just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions > if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in > class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Gordyn, >> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >> goals. >> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take notes >> on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >> If so, you already have a braille display. >> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >> >> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >> personal preference. >> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. But I >> already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my family is >> supportive. >> >> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money on >> it? Something to think about. >> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >> BrailleNote. >> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a common >> request. If you need it, go ahead though. >> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for a >> screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >> >> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >> because of allergies or something. >> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long as >> you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever freshman live >> and don't let blindness be a barrier. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> Hi again guys! >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >> way of technology? >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >> using as far as technology in college? >> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 06:09:51 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 02:09:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <27DF0ED4-B82D-413B-9BB1-68D13C87EEB3@gmail.com> References: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com> <27DF0ED4-B82D-413B-9BB1-68D13C87EEB3@gmail.com> Message-ID: For taking notes, I would also consider an iPod Touch along with a small bluetooth Braille display (that is, if you want braille). I can't remember the brand or model, but there is a small bluetooth braille display out there which has a braille keyboard built in. I tried that with my iPhone and I can tell you that it makes a terrific notetaking device. It's also a lot smaller than any of the blind-specific products. Just an idea... IC On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > That's true, > I think JFW is ten times better then Window Eyes. > I've tried both, but JFW does seem more responsive. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:09 PM, David wrote: > >> I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from taking >> notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high school all the time, >> and will continue to do so in college. If you're not completely set on >> Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the PAC Mate. You could use the PAC >> Mate Braille display on your computer that way, as Window Eyes does not >> support it. >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >> other college questions >> >> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes or >> something. I also have a Booksense. >> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, just >> so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with a lot of >> variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! What >> do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the PAC Mate >> and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading and such? I >> really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus PAC Mate debate, >> just wondering though. lol You can email me off list with your opinions >> if you want. >> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker in >> class? >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Gordyn, >>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your college >>> goals. >>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing a >>> regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to worry >>> about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to take >>> notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>> >>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>> personal preference. >>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>> family is supportive. >>> >>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much money >>> on it? Something to think about. >>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR >>> software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >>> BrailleNote. >>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid for >>> a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>> >>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>> because of allergies or something. >>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement or >>> something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as long >>> as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>> other college questions >>> >>> Hi again guys! >>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other blind >>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in the >>> way of technology? >>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or Kurzweil. I >>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>> using as far as technology in college? >>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology like >>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.c >> om >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 26 07:16:37 2011 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:16:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions In-Reply-To: References: <4db60d45.213e970a.0a36.07bf@mx.google.com><27DF0ED4-B82D-413B-9BB1-68D13C87EEB3@gmail.com> Message-ID: It is called the Braille pen. This device is $995.00. is small meant to use with phones or laptop computers. It has 12 Braille cells display the 6 keys and arrow joy stick. There are some pod cast of person using the device online. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and someother college questions For taking notes, I would also consider an iPod Touch along with a small bluetooth Braille display (that is, if you want braille). I can't remember the brand or model, but there is a small bluetooth braille display out there which has a braille keyboard built in. I tried that with my iPhone and I can tell you that it makes a terrific notetaking device. It's also a lot smaller than any of the blind-specific products. Just an idea... IC On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > That's true, > I think JFW is ten times better then Window Eyes. > I've tried both, but JFW does seem more responsive. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:09 PM, David wrote: > >> I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from >> taking notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high school >> all the time, and will continue to do so in college. If you're not >> completely set on Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the PAC >> Mate. You could use the PAC Mate Braille display on your computer >> that way, as Window Eyes does not support it. >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Jordyn Castor >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and >> some other college questions >> >> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes >> or something. I also have a Booksense. >> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, >> just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with >> a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! >> What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the >> PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading >> and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus >> PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list >> with your opinions if you want. >> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker >> in class? >> Thanks again, >> Jordyn >> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Gordyn, >>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your >>> college goals. >>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing >>> a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to >>> worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to >>> take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>> >>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>> personal preference. >>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>> family is supportive. >>> >>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much >>> money on it? Something to think about. >>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a 40 cell braille >>> display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR software, >>> scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or >>> BrailleNote. >>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid >>> for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>> >>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>> because of allergies or something. >>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement >>> or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as >>> long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>> other college questions >>> >>> Hi again guys! >>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This >>> is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>> blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>> the way of technology? >>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or >>> Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>> using as far as technology in college? >>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>> like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than >>> asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the >>> printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>> Thanks again, >>> Jordyn >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthl >> ink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40 >> gmail.c >> om >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40g >> mail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechj >> orgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Apr 26 08:08:01 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 01:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <685582.46574.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Good points Nicole. Yes all most all dorooms have a card swipe, but theft in dorooms happens all the time. I have been around dorooms long enough to to know this. As Nicole pointed out people who are steeling will not know and frankly will not care that you have a expensive screen-reader and a OCR software on your computer. All they want is that computer and frankly even note-taking devices like Packmate or Braille-note are not amune from theft. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 4/25/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 4:37 PM > When I was in school, I kept it > locked. The roommate had a key too; so we > both got in when we needed to. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from > Rehab > andsomeothercollege questions > > Security is only relative. Stanford has card swipes on the > dorms, and people > still get in. And, yes, if you do have a roommate, don't > give an inch about > the door being locked. I never unlock mine. I just leave it > locked and use > the key to open it. It's true that people probably are not > going to run off > with your adaptive technology, but they are not going to > know/care that a > laptop has a screen reader on it. Either they would get > your information off > of the laptop or just wipe its memory. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Bennett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:22 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from > Rehab andsomeother > college questions > > > You can purchase room insurance for relatively cheap. > Different > campuse have different levels of security, but in my > experience dorms > tend to be more secure than off campus housing since RA's > are on duty > and someone is always at the front desk, and only certain > students > have card access. But it is true that other students might > be the > biggest threats. I have generally found people to be pretty > trust > worthy though. There are definitely exceptions to this, but > I feel > that people are probably at a pretty equal risk of having > things > stolen from them. Blindness related technology is > expensive, but it is > also specialized, and I feel like someone looking to steal > and sell > would want to take something that would be easy to sell and > difficult > to trace back to its owner. You could definitely talk to > your roommate > and let them know that you think it is really important > that if both > of you are gone or sleeping that the door should always be > locked. > > Cindy > > On 4/25/11, Anmol Bhatia > wrote: > > Good points Arielle. > > The only thing I would add is to keep consideration > that our technology is > > expensive and I would hate for any of it to come up > missing or stolen. So > > maybe at first unless you know someone and can trust > that person get a > > single room until you get there and get to know others > and have made > > friends. Maybe second semester or second year > > you can get a roommate with someone you know. > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > > > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology > requests from Rehab > >> andsomeother college questions > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > >> > >> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM > >> Hi Jordan and all, > >> > >> When I applied to college, because of advice from > my DSS > >> counselor and > >> encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the > housing > >> application > >> that I was blind. I was assigned a single room, > and > >> initially I was > >> assigned a handicapped-accessible room. I fought > to get a > >> non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the > single > >> because I feared > >> that my technology would crowd out a roommate. As > it turned > >> out, I > >> brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use. > If I > >> could do it > >> over again, I would never have told housing that I > had a > >> "disability" > >> or requested a single. I made an effort to > socialize with > >> my > >> floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click > with the > >> other girls > >> on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a > roommate > >> it would > >> have been a lot easier to get in the social > swing. > >> Nowadays, most > >> college students come with a computer of some sort > and I > >> think many > >> also bring a printer. You can get a scanner > that's > >> integrated into > >> your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a > computer > >> and > >> screen-reading software, you really have no more > equipment > >> than your > >> sighted dorm-mates will have. Even if you splurge > and also > >> get a > >> Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable > notetaker, it can > >> easily fit > >> on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or > netbook, your > >> equipment is > >> even more compact. So don't worry about any > special > >> housing > >> accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide > dog. > >> > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 4/24/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > >> wrote: > >> > I just want to make a few > >> points. > >> > > >> > The notetakers are definitely catching up on > the > >> technology, but there are > >> > still things that you can and will need to do > on a > >> computer that you cannot > >> > do on a notetaker. One of these things is > formatting. > >> Teachers in secondary > >> > school tend to be much more relaxed about > formatting, > >> but, in college, what > >> > passed in secondary school probably will not > pass in > >> college. I hardly ever > >> > turn any thing in directly from my > BrailleNote. > >> > > >> > I don't think that the person > >> was using the Braille display *instead* of > >> > VoiceOver. I don't know how it works on > Apple > >> products, but I know that, on > >> > windows computers, you have to have a screen > reader to > >> act as a driver for a > >> > Braille display. > >> > > >> > To answer the question of why > >> you would need both speech and Braille, > >> > some things are easier/faster to do listening > and some > >> are better done with > >> > Braille. For example, I would find it very > hard to > >> listen to math. On the > >> > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a > lot faster > >> than I can read, so I > >> > listen to things for which it is not critical > that I > >> know every little > >> > punctuation mark. > >> > > >> > One last comment about > >> emailing work. In college, most things are not in > >> > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote. > Most > >> professors use PDF. Some > >> > use PowerPoint. Very few use word documents. > Even if > >> they do, most use docx > >> > files and/or files with formatting that the > bn does > >> not support. > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Chris Nusbaum" > >> > To: ; > >> "National Association of Blind Students mailing > >> > list" > >> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology > requests > >> from Rehab andsomeother > >> > college questions > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hi, guys. > >> >> > >> >> Just a few thoughts on David's > suggestions. > >> I agree with your comment > >> >> about the laptop vs the notetaker. With > the > >> newer versions of the > >> >> notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex > that I have, > >> you can do most > >> >> anything that you could on a computer > with your > >> notetaker as it's all > >> >> computer technology now instead of PDA > >> technology. However, if you're > >> >> doing a Internet research project or > something, > >> the more tools in your > >> >> toolbox, the better. I know that some > sites > >> are accessible to screen > >> >> readers but not to notetakers, and vice > >> versa. So I would reccomend > >> >> definitely seeing if you can get both. > Now > >> keep in mind, as I said > >> >> before, rehab probably isn't going to get > all the > >> technology you need for > >> >> you, but you never know. You might need > >> another funding source, like a > >> >> Lions club or another foundation like the > I CAN > >> Foundation that I > >> >> mentioned in the last email to you. On > the > >> display vs notetaker and > >> >> Braille embosser topics, I would suggest > a > >> notetaker over a Braille > >> >> display for its portability and > convenience. > >> I would reccomend a > >> >> Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, > based on > >> what I've heard about > >> >> the Braille-Sense. However, one of the > NFB > >> executives was showing me a > >> >> Braille display called RefreshaBraille > from APH, > >> which he uses for his > >> >> iPod instead of VoiceOver. It really > doesn't > >> matter, in my opinion, > >> >> whether you get a screen reader for your > computer > >> or a Braille display. > >> >> It really serves the same purpose. If > you > >> have a screen reader, it's > >> >> already reading the screen, so why would > you need > >> a Braille display, and > >> >> vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it > all comes > >> down to individual > >> >> preference. I used to love hardcopy > Braille > >> until I got the Apex. Now my > >> >> > >> >> teachers email homework or classwork to > me and I > >> detach it right onto my > >> >> Braille-Note. I also email my teachers > >> homework as attachments to emails > >> >> instead of printing them out and labeling > them in > >> Braille, which saves a > >> >> lot of time. I also use the good old > thumb > >> drive all the time in school. > >> >> What's awesome about that is that in the > middle of > >> class, my teacher will > >> >> say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to > put a paper > >> on it for today." If > >> >> he/she has an electronic copy in their > computer of > >> the worksheet, they can > >> >> > >> >> stick it on my thumb drive and I can > import it > >> into the notetaker. It's a > >> >> > >> >> life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy > Braille, > >> it's a louder process and > >> >> you'll use a lot more paper, but it's > whatever you > >> prefer. If you have > >> >> any more questions, let me and the list > >> know. Good luck! > >> >> > >> >> Chris Nusbaum > >> >> > >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of > vision!" (Camp > >> Abilities motto) > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: David >> >> To: "'National Association of Blind > Students > >> mailing list'" > >> >> >> >> Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 > -0500 > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable > technology > >> requests from Rehab and > >> >> someother college questions > >> >> > >> >> Hi, Jordyn. Here are some things to keep > in > >> mind. Definitely try to get > >> >> a > >> >> laptop with a screen reader. I know that > >> some agencies may not purchase > >> >> computers, but rather the adaptive > devices like > >> screen readers, > >> >> notetakers, > >> >> etc. But there are always exceptions, it > >> seems. You'll want a powerful > >> >> computer with quite a bit of ram and > processing > >> speed, as well as a > >> >> decently > >> >> sized hard drive. As for OCR, if you're > >> reasonably good with computers, > >> >> look > >> >> in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR > solution > >> with excellent OCR > >> >> accuracy. I believe that it might be > better > >> than Kurzweil and OpenBook, > >> >> and > >> >> you should be able to get it for less > than > >> $200. Be aware that OmniPage > >> >> is > >> >> not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook > and > >> Kurzweil, but if you are a > >> >> decent > >> >> computer user, you'll have little trouble > with > >> it. As for the Braille > >> >> display and notetaker, I would > personally > >> recommend a notetaker with > >> >> Braille > >> >> output, since it's very portable, and you > can just > >> open it and take notes > >> >> immediately, rather than waiting for the > laptop to > >> boot up. I'd get the > >> >> notetaker before the Braille display, > since most > >> notetakers can act as > >> >> Braille displays. However, I don't think > >> it's as convenient as a > >> >> dedicated > >> >> Braille display. Maybe they'll get you > >> both. A Braille embosser would be > >> >> nice, but they can be loud depending on > the model, > >> and that may be a > >> >> problem > >> >> in a dorm setting. But if you really > like > >> using hard-copy Braille, then > >> >> do > >> >> try getting one. It would be preferable > than > >> having to schedule time to > >> >> use > >> >> the university's. Those are my thoughts. > >> >> David > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> On > >> >> Behalf > >> >> Of Jordyn Castor > >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >> list > >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology > requests > >> from Rehab and some other > >> >> college questions > >> >> > >> >> Hi again guys! > >> >> I'm going to college in the fall, as I > already > >> said yesterday. This is > >> >> why I have so many questions! I just want > to be > >> sure I'm doing > >> >> everything right, and what better way to > do this > >> then asking other blind > >> >> students? :) So, thanks for all your > great advice > >> on everything! > >> >> My other question is, what are reasonable > things > >> to ask Rehab for in the > >> >> way of technology? > >> >> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille > display, > >> Window Eyes, and a > >> >> printer scanner combo thinggy with > software like > >> OpenBook or Kurzweil. I > >> >> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though > as these > >> are super expensive. > >> >> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd > ask for? > >> What are you all > >> >> using as far as technology in college? > >> >> My college also has a place where I can, > I think, > >> borrow technology like > >> >> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I > use > >> that rather than asking > >> >> rehab for some of the things like the > display and > >> the printer? I think > >> >> it would be awesome to have a printer in > my dorm > >> though lol! > >> >> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you > have a > >> roommate or a single room? > >> >> A lot of my blind friends seem to have > single > >> rooms because of the > >> >> expensive technology, but, I want a > roommate, I > >> think. lol Thoughts? > >> >> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > >> >> Thanks again, > >> >> Jordyn > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 > >> >> %40gmail.co > >> >> m > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >> >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Arielle Silverman > >> President, National Association of Blind Students > >> Phone: 602-502-2255 > >> Email: > >> nabs.president at gmail.com > >> Website: > >> www.nabslink.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > UNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 13:59:42 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:59:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions In-Reply-To: <4A777E3FA8AD4077A5C43091660B02A0@OwnerPC> References: <4DB4BB9C.8050801@gmail.com><181FC3F939CD4F37838F02B4B67FCD7B@OwnerPC><4DB60C66.3050604@gmail.com><70ECDA502BC14DA2BEDF44C2D7A35A26@stanford.edu><4DB6139C.7000204@gmail.com> <4A777E3FA8AD4077A5C43091660B02A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3119416F-924C-44E1-B8A1-E44C797B66F1@gmail.com> The only problem with reseting the BN is that sometimes its too loud--specially if you're in the middle of a lecture. On Apr 25, 2011, at 10:06 PM, wrote: > Ditto. I have reset the BrailleNote without erasing material. Its very helpful sometimes; I do backup material, but sometimes you need the reset when you're in the middle of something. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some other college questions > > I have used both, and I do love that there is a way to reset the > Braille Note without erasing material. When I used the PacMate back in > high school, there was not a way to do this, and it crashed quite > regularly. But I had one of the first versions of the PacMate, and it > could be much better now. I would stick with what you're used to. But > if there isn't a way to reset your PacMate without erasing material, > you should backup your files on a very very regular basis. > > Cindy > > On 4/25/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: >> I honestly think the PAC Mate crashes less on the Braille keyboard >> models then on the actual keyboard models. I have a computer style one >> at school and it crashes all the time! I haven't had to send it in >> because of software failures. I just usually do a clean reset of the >> unit and it works wonderfully. I also have the newest version of the PAC >> Mate so don't know if that makes a difference as I've heard of the >> earlier models having more problems which doesn't surprise me lol. >> On 4/25/2011 8:10 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Does the PacMate crash a lot? Have you ever had to send it in because >>> of software failure? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordyn Castor" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:05 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and >>> some other college questions >>> >>> >>>> Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 cell >>>> display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the keyboard in >>>> class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is pretty >>>> out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with Window Eyes >>>> or something. I also have a Booksense. >>>> I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d y n, >>>> just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled with >>>> a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all know. >>>> Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the technology! >>>> What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to the >>>> PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book reading >>>> and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote versus >>>> PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me off list >>>> with your opinions if you want. >>>> Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your notetaker >>>> in class? >>>> Thanks again, >>>> Jordyn >>>> On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> Gordyn, >>>>> Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your >>>>> college goals. >>>>> Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to bringing >>>>> a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have to >>>>> worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you intend to >>>>> take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to college. >>>>> Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? >>>>> If so, you already have a braille display. >>>>> I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. >>>>> >>>>> The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer are >>>>> personal preference. >>>>> Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with scanner. >>>>> But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because my >>>>> family is supportive. >>>>> >>>>> What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more >>>>> expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. >>>>> So what justification will you have for them to spend that much >>>>> money on it? Something to think about. >>>>> In VA I don't know one college student who got a >>>>> 40 cell braille display! Students typically get a screen reader, >>>>> OCR software, scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate >>>>> or BrailleNote. >>>>> Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a >>>>> common request. If you need it, go ahead though. >>>>> But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we paid >>>>> for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". >>>>> >>>>> Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you have a >>>>> guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a roommate >>>>> because of allergies or something. >>>>> Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special placement >>>>> or something. I think blindness should not affect where you live as >>>>> long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live whereever >>>>> freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and some >>>>> other college questions >>>>> >>>>> Hi again guys! >>>>> I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. This is >>>>> why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm doing >>>>> everything right, and what better way to do this then asking other >>>>> blind >>>>> students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on everything! >>>>> My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab for in >>>>> the >>>>> way of technology? >>>>> I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and a >>>>> printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or >>>>> Kurzweil. I >>>>> don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these are super expensive. >>>>> lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you all >>>>> using as far as technology in college? >>>>> My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow technology >>>>> like >>>>> an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather than asking >>>>> rehab for some of the things like the display and the printer? I think >>>>> it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm though lol! >>>>> Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a single room? >>>>> A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of the >>>>> expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol Thoughts? >>>>> Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) >>>>> Thanks again, >>>>> Jordyn >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > UNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Tue Apr 26 15:18:34 2011 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:18:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] rescheduling Littleton seminar Message-ID: <006901cc0425$36949530$a3bdbf90$@org> Greetings students and others, Due to scheduling conflicts, The seminar scheduled for Saturday, April 30th at the Colorado Center for the Blind in Littleton is being rescheduled for Saturday, June 18th, from noon until 4 pm. Lunch will be provided. This will take place after the National Federation of the Blind of Denver's chapter meeting. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please help us spread the word about this new date, and plan to join us for an exciting afternoon. There will be activities for students of all ages, parents, and professionals working in the field. We will be exploring job and career options, best practices for traditional and nontraditional students, and the latest and greatest technology used by the blind in academia today. If you have any questions or would like to respond to this invitation, please call: Maryann Migliorelli, Colorado Association of Blind Students Vice-President at 303-499-9125, or Brent Batron, Youth Services Coordinator, Colorado Center for the Blind At 303-778-1130 extension 222. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Apr 26 16:15:10 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:15:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement Message-ID: <4DB0EEEF70E34611985419A9A92DA999@labarre> FYI Please distribute this far and wide. We are particularly interested in hearing about the experience of those who will be applying to law school through LSAC. Everything should now be accessible, or at least starting in the fall. ----- Original Message ----- From: Freeh, Jessica Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:08 AM Subject: National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement LSAC Will Make its Web Site Fully Accessible to the Blind Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) today announced that it has settled a lawsuit with the Law School Admissions Council, Inc. (LSAC) regarding access to the LSAC Web site (www.lsac.org) by blind people. As part of the settlement, LSAC will provide full and equal access to its Web site for blind users by September 1, 2011. Changes will be made to the LSAC Web site that will allow blind users utilizing screen access technology, which converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille, to read and interact with it. The accessibility requirements extend to all parts of the Web site on which services or products are made available to prospective law school applicants or to LSAT and Credential Assembly Service registrants, including, but not limited to, the process of applying to law schools through lsac.org and the documents and practice tests LSAC makes available online. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "Access to Web sites is critical to the full and equal participation of blind people in all aspects of modern life. In this instance, access is especially critical, since without it blind people experience significant barriers to entering the legal profession. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased to have reached a settlement with the Law School Admissions Council and we look forward to working with its officials and technical staff in the coming months. It is our sincere hope that other educational entities and credentialing organizations that provide vital services over the Internet will follow LSAC's example and take affirmative steps to provide full access to their Web sites by blind consumers." Deepa Goraya, a named plaintiff in the suit, said: "As someone who has gone through the law school application process and struggled to use the Law School Admission Council's Web site, I am pleased to see that the Web site will be made fully accessible and the process of gaining admission to law school will now be easier for all blind people who are interested in entering this noble profession." Under the settlement, the National Federation of the Blind will perform semi-annual accessibility testing of the LSAC Web site until September 1, 2012. The National Federation of the Blind is represented in this matter by Daniel F. Goldstein of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy; Laurence W. Paradis, Anna Levine, and Karla Gilbride of the Berkley firm Disability Rights Advocates; and Scott C. LaBarre of the Denver firm LaBarre Law Offices. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 16:32:23 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:32:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Fw: National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement In-Reply-To: <4DB0EEEF70E34611985419A9A92DA999@labarre> References: <4DB0EEEF70E34611985419A9A92DA999@labarre> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:15:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list FYI Please distribute this far and wide. We are particularly interested in hearing about the experience of those who will be applying to law school through LSAC. Everything should now be accessible, or at least starting in the fall. ----- Original Message ----- From: Freeh, Jessica Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:08 AM Subject: National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind and Law School Admissions Council Agree to Settlement LSAC Will Make its Web Site Fully Accessible to the Blind Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) today announced that it has settled a lawsuit with the Law School Admissions Council, Inc. (LSAC) regarding access to the LSAC Web site (www.lsac.org) by blind people. As part of the settlement, LSAC will provide full and equal access to its Web site for blind users by September 1, 2011. Changes will be made to the LSAC Web site that will allow blind users utilizing screen access technology, which converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille, to read and interact with it. The accessibility requirements extend to all parts of the Web site on which services or products are made available to prospective law school applicants or to LSAT and Credential Assembly Service registrants, including, but not limited to, the process of applying to law schools through lsac.org and the documents and practice tests LSAC makes available online. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "Access to Web sites is critical to the full and equal participation of blind people in all aspects of modern life. In this instance, access is especially critical, since without it blind people experience significant barriers to entering the legal profession. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased to have reached a settlement with the Law School Admissions Council and we look forward to working with its officials and technical staff in the coming months. It is our sincere hope that other educational entities and credentialing organizations that provide vital services over the Internet will follow LSAC's example and take affirmative steps to provide full access to their Web sites by blind consumers." Deepa Goraya, a named plaintiff in the suit, said: "As someone who has gone through the law school application process and struggled to use the Law School Admission Council's Web site, I am pleased to see that the Web site will be made fully accessible and the process of gaining admission to law school will now be easier for all blind people who are interested in entering this noble profession." Under the settlement, the National Federation of the Blind will perform semi-annual accessibility testing of the LSAC Web site until September 1, 2012. The National Federation of the Blind is represented in this matter by Daniel F. Goldstein of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy; Laurence W. Paradis, Anna Levine, and Karla Gilbride of the Berkley firm Disability Rights Advocates; and Scott C. LaBarre of the Denver firm LaBarre Law Offices. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 16:37:18 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:37:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Calling All Students!: May's Nabs Membership Conference Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Liz Bottner Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 08:59:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs Membership Conference Call To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Greetings fellow students, For the topic of May's NABS Membership Committee conference call, we of the Membership Committee turn to you! Three possible topics have come head to head, and we need a winner. That is where you come in! The proposed topics are the following: 1. A call all about technology and the strategies used to be a successful student. 2. A Sports and Recreational Activities call. 3. A call that stemmed from a recent list serve topic questioning the validity of the blind majority membership requirement within the NFB. To cast your vote, please send an e-mail to nabs.membership at gmail.com. In the subject line of the e-mail, please indicate your choice: Technology, Sports or Philosophy. You have until Monday, May 2 to get your votes in. At that time, the numbers will be tabulated and the topic of choice soon revealed! Additionally, in your e-mail expressing your vote, if you have ideas of guest speakers for the call, (even if that would be you yourself), please let us know. We want to hear from you! Technology, sports or philosophy, which will it be? You decide! Sincerely, Your Nabs Membership Committee Liz Bottner Co-Chair Membership committee National Association of Blind Students Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From member at linkedin.com Tue Apr 26 18:33:53 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Maria Concepcion Hernandez via LinkedIn) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:33:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Maria Concepcion Hernandez wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <866936527.5908413.1303842833388.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed36.prod> LinkedIn ------------Maria Concepcion Hernandez requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Eric, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Maria Concepcion Hernandez Accept invitation from Maria Concepcion Hernandez http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-gmz6cwyy-6h/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I120552570_11/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYMdPkOdjkMcz59bR1Dt4RUdmkMbP4OejoVe3oSdP8LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Maria Concepcion Hernandez http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-gmz6cwyy-6h/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I120552570_11/34NnP0Tdj8Rdj0OckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ Why might connecting with Maria Concepcion Hernandez be a good idea? Have a question? Maria Concepcion Hernandez's network will probably have an answer: You can use LinkedIn Answers to distribute your professional questions to Maria Concepcion Hernandez and your extended network. You can get high-quality answers from experienced professionals. http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-gmz6cwyy-6h/ash/inv19_ayn/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 20:20:07 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:20:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions Message-ID: <4db7290a.1463dc0a.46bd.02b8@mx.google.com> Hi,=20Anmol. Just=20curious.=20=20I=20saw=20you=20have=20a=20Yahoo=20email=20address.=20= =20I=20thought=20 Yahoo=20was=20totally=20inaccessible=20to=20screen=20readers,=20and=20I=20u= sed=20to=20 have=20it=20with=20JAWS.=20=20Totally=20inaccessible!=20Then=20I=20found=20= out=20that=20 Gmail=20was=20the=20most=20accessible,=20so=20I=20got=20it.=20=20However,=20= Yahoo=20is=20 accessible=20to=20VoiceOver=20if=20you=20get=20email=20on=20an=20iDevice,=20= like=20an=20 iPhone=20or=20iTouch.=20=20We=20tried=20it=20out=20on=20my=20mom's=20iTouch= .=20=20But=20it=20 didn't=20say=20it=20was=20sent=20from=20any=20iDevice.=20=20So,=20what=20do= =20you=20use=20for=20 your=20email? Chris=20Nusbaum "A=20loss=20of=20sight,=20never=20a=20loss=20of=20vision!"=20(Camp=20Abilit= ies=20motto) -----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Anmol=20Bhatia=20=20 wrote: =20From:=20Arielle=20Silverman=20; =20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing =20list"=20 Hi, Liz and all. I have a question about the conference call. I'm on the NABS list serve, but I don't think I'm an official member of NABS, unless being on the list automatically considers me a member of NABS. (Don't worry, I'm still a member of NFB.) Can I still join the membership call and/or cast my vote for the topic? Thanks! P.S. To avoid any confusion, I am in fact a blind student, so I'm not an ineligible person for the list, but I'm just not a member of NABS. Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Liz Bottner liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: Hi, Jordyn. Don't worry about the "loudness" of your PacMate. I have a Braille-Note Apex and it's kind of loud, too. But everyone in my class got used to it soon. My English teacher always thought it was somebody tapping their pen and was always going to tell that person to stop, until she saw me typing on my Braille-Note and remembered. I get asked a lot about my preference between two notetakers, but I can't really answer your question about the Braille-Note vs the PacMate because I've never tried using a PacMate. I do, though reccomend JAWS over WindowEyes, just because I think the speech synthesizer on JAWS is easier to understand and more human-sounding than the one on WindowEyes and the commands are a little easier to remember, in my opinion. The trade-off there is that (if I'm not mistaken) JAWS costs more than WindowEyes. That might be something to ask rehab or another foundation for. Hope this helps! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordyn Castor Will that person even care? The people in my class have just learned to accept it, as well as the teachers. But hey, I'm in a very accepting school and school system, which is awesome! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: A lot quieter than the mPower. Nicole, you haven't gotten an upgrade yet? * Frown! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" The only doubt I would have about that is... twelve cells? That's it? I have a 32 cell display on my BN, and it's great for reading. I think that in college, you might want to have more cells on that display, but that's just me! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Struiksma References: <4db72d1f.ce5f340a.3733.02e3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: You do have a point that resetting the Braille Note can be annoying in the middle of class. I always bring headphones and plug them in just in case, because usually I keep the speech off and just use the braille display. It does beep inside and outside the headphone, so if I have to do it, I try to wait for a transition time in notes such as switching slides or changing topics. I think it would be difficult to justify the purchase of an iTouch for note taking, but it is a great idea if you already have one. I don't personally have one, but know people that have purchased a blue tooth keyboard to help with typing. This option has a good battery life and is more portable than a laptop and it obviously has a ton of other uses, so I think that it is a great idea. Cindy On 4/26/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > The only doubt I would have about that is... twelve cells? > That's it? I have a 32 cell display on my BN, and it's great for > reading. I think that in college, you might want to have more > cells on that display, but that's just me! > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jacob Struiksma To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:16:37 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab > andsomeother college questions > > It is called the Braille pen. This device is $995.00. is small > meant to > use with phones or laptop computers. It has 12 Braille cells > display the 6 > keys and arrow joy stick. There are some pod cast of person > using the > device online. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab > and > someother college questions > > For taking notes, I would also consider an iPod Touch along with > a small > bluetooth Braille display (that is, if you want braille). I > can't remember > the brand or model, but there is a small bluetooth braille > display out there > which has a braille keyboard built in. I tried that with my > iPhone and I can > tell you that it makes a terrific notetaking device. It's also a > lot smaller > than any of the blind-specific products. > Just an idea... > > IC > On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > > That's true, > I think JFW is ten times better then Window Eyes. > I've tried both, but JFW does seem more responsive. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:09 PM, David wrote: > > I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from > taking notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high > school > all the time, and will continue to do so in college. If you're > not > completely set on Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the > PAC > Mate. You could use the PAC Mate Braille display on your > computer > that way, as Window Eyes does not support it. > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jordyn Castor > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab > and > some other college questions > > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 > cell > display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the > keyboard in > class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is > pretty > out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with > Window Eyes > or something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d > y n, > just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled > with > a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all > know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the > technology! > What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to > the > PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book > reading > and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote > versus > PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me > off list > with your opinions if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your > notetaker > in class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Gordyn, > Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your > college goals. > Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to > bringing > a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have > to > worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you > intend to > take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to > college. > Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? > If so, you already have a braille display. > I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. > > The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer > are > personal preference. > Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with > scanner. > But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because > my > family is supportive. > > What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more > expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. > So what justification will you have for them to spend that much > money on it? Something to think about. > In VA I don't know one college student who got a 40 cell braille > display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR software, > scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or > BrailleNote. > Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a > common request. If you need it, go ahead though. > But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we > paid > for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". > > Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you > have a > guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a > roommate > because of allergies or something. > Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special > placement > or something. I think blindness should not affect where you > live as > long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live > whereever > freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and > some > other college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. > This > is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm > doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking > other > blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on > everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab > for in > the way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and > a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or > Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these > are super > expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you > all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow > technology > like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather > than > asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the > printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my > dorm though > lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a > single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of > the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol > Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%4 > 0earthl > ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn249 > 3%40 > gmail.c > om > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 > %40g > mail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert > echj > orgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower > 84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 26 23:14:10 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:14:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions In-Reply-To: References: <4db72d1f.ce5f340a.3733.02e3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Well, I also just use the braille display; if I have to reset it, I wait for a pause in the lecture like change of topics; then just reset it. I cover the speaker with my hand; hasn't bothered anyone yet. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Bennett Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeother college questions You do have a point that resetting the Braille Note can be annoying in the middle of class. I always bring headphones and plug them in just in case, because usually I keep the speech off and just use the braille display. It does beep inside and outside the headphone, so if I have to do it, I try to wait for a transition time in notes such as switching slides or changing topics. I think it would be difficult to justify the purchase of an iTouch for note taking, but it is a great idea if you already have one. I don't personally have one, but know people that have purchased a blue tooth keyboard to help with typing. This option has a good battery life and is more portable than a laptop and it obviously has a ton of other uses, so I think that it is a great idea. Cindy On 4/26/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > The only doubt I would have about that is... twelve cells? > That's it? I have a 32 cell display on my BN, and it's great for > reading. I think that in college, you might want to have more > cells on that display, but that's just me! > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jacob Struiksma To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:16:37 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab > andsomeother college questions > > It is called the Braille pen. This device is $995.00. is small > meant to > use with phones or laptop computers. It has 12 Braille cells > display the 6 > keys and arrow joy stick. There are some pod cast of person > using the > device online. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab > and > someother college questions > > For taking notes, I would also consider an iPod Touch along with > a small > bluetooth Braille display (that is, if you want braille). I > can't remember > the brand or model, but there is a small bluetooth braille > display out there > which has a braille keyboard built in. I tried that with my > iPhone and I can > tell you that it makes a terrific notetaking device. It's also a > lot smaller > than any of the blind-specific products. > Just an idea... > > IC > On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > > That's true, > I think JFW is ten times better then Window Eyes. > I've tried both, but JFW does seem more responsive. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:09 PM, David wrote: > > I don't that the keyboard should be too loud to prevent you from > taking notes. I have the same model, and took notes in high > school > all the time, and will continue to do so in college. If you're > not > completely set on Window Eyes, I would get JAWS, and keep the > PAC > Mate. You could use the PAC Mate Braille display on your > computer > that way, as Window Eyes does not support it. > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jordyn Castor > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 7:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab > and > some other college questions > > Right now I have a PAC Mate with a braille keyboard and a 40 > cell > display which is mine. I'm just concerned about using the > keyboard in > class since it's so loud! lol I also use a laptop, but mine is > pretty > out of date and I have NVDA. So, I want a new laptop with > Window Eyes > or something. I also have a Booksense. > I'm just going to say this. My name is Jordyn, spelled J o r d > y n, > just so people don't think I'm a guy. lol! I've seen it spelled > with > a lot of variations on this list so I'm just letting you all > know. > Anyway, thanks so much for the great suggestions on the > technology! > What do you guys think in your preference of the BrailleNote to > the > PAC Mate and why if it is just used for notetaking and book > reading > and such? I really don't want to get into a huge BrailleNote > versus > PAC Mate debate, just wondering though. lol You can email me > off list > with your opinions if you want. > Do you think people get annoyed with the loudness of your > notetaker > in class? > Thanks again, > Jordyn > On 4/24/2011 9:46 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Gordyn, > Technology depends on your needs and it has to relate to your > college goals. > Everyone likes laptops now a days; but IMO an advantage to > bringing > a regular desktop to the dorm is its stable and you don't have > to > worry about battery life and its more fragile. Now if you > intend to > take notes on it during class, then yes bring a laptop to > college. > Do you have a notetaker already such as a BrailleNote? > If so, you already have a braille display. > I agree ask for a scanner with OCR software like Openbook. > > The braille display, your choice of screen reader, and computer > are > personal preference. > Rehab bought me my BrailleNote and Openbook software with > scanner. > But I already had some technology like jaws and duxbury because > my > family is supportive. > > What are you going to use the braille display for? That is more > expensive than a computer, scanner, and OCR software combined. > So what justification will you have for them to spend that much > money on it? Something to think about. > In VA I don't know one college student who got a 40 cell braille > display! Students typically get a screen reader, OCR software, > scanner and a notetaker; state buys either the PacMate or > BrailleNote. > Just be prepared to justify the braille display as this is not a > common request. If you need it, go ahead though. > But the state might think "oh why should we buy this when we > paid > for a screen reader and Openbook to read to him?". > > Regarding roommates, I'm with you. Get a roommate, unless you > have a > guide dog. Then the dog might pose a problem living with a > roommate > because of allergies or something. > Meet with housing so they don't assume you need a special > placement > or something. I think blindness should not affect where you > live as > long as you can walk down stairs in an emergency; so live > whereever > freshman live and don't let blindness be a barrier. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab and > some > other college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already said yesterday. > This > is why I have so many questions! I just want to be sure I'm > doing > everything right, and what better way to do this then asking > other > blind students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice on > everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things to ask Rehab > for in > the way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, Window Eyes, and > a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like OpenBook or > Kurzweil. I don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these > are super > expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? What are you > all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, borrow > technology > like an embosser or Braille Display. Should I use that rather > than > asking rehab for some of the things like the display and the > printer? I think it would be awesome to have a printer in my > dorm though > lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a roommate or a > single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single rooms because of > the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I think. lol > Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%4 > 0earthl > ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn249 > 3%40 > gmail.c > om > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 > %40g > mail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert > echj > orgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower > 84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 26 23:18:47 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:18:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs MembershipConferenceCall In-Reply-To: <4db7290c.1463dc0a.46bd.02b9@mx.google.com> References: <4db7290c.1463dc0a.46bd.02b9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8AB895AC35D54C019DFD1DFF516F310E@OwnerPC> Ycan come to conference calls whether you're a member or not. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Calling All Students!: May's Nabs MembershipConferenceCall Hi, Liz and all. I have a question about the conference call. I'm on the NABS list serve, but I don't think I'm an official member of NABS, unless being on the list automatically considers me a member of NABS. (Don't worry, I'm still a member of NFB.) Can I still join the membership call and/or cast my vote for the topic? Thanks! P.S. To avoid any confusion, I am in fact a blind student, so I'm not an ineligible person for the list, but I'm just not a member of NABS. Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Liz Bottner liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Linda Bandov Pazin Director of Public Relations Live Nation Entertainment National Federation of the Blind (310) 867-7000 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 lindabandov at livenation.com (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will make its website (www.ticketmaster.com) fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access technology by December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. Ticketmaster customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and services, including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal access to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to working with the company to achieve that goal. The National Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until the blind have equal access to the full range of products and services available to the public through the Internet and other information technologies." "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the Blind is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that they can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website so that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a comprehensive accessibility program that will include the development of an accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of both an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials of the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the Ticketmaster services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will submit its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind can be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification program continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they remain compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains accessible, its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind will work with the site developers to remedy them. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. About Live Nation Entertainment Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live entertainment and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation Concerts, Front Line Management Group and Live Nation Network. Ticketmaster.com is the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. Live Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist management company, representing over 250 artists. These businesses power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into the 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its live event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit www.livenation.com/investors. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 00:34:47 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:34:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: References: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Thank you all for helping me figure it out. I'm reading my first digital book, and loving it! I had one more question. On the far left, it has some "gobbly-gook" (a bunch of symbols that don't make sense to me). I notice that I am constantly panning over to get the last few cells of a line, but if that junk on the left side were not there, I wouldn't have to pan over. Does anyone know what that is, and what I can do, if anything, to remove it? ~Jewel On 4/25/11, David Andrews wrote: > You could also display it in notepad, word pad etc., and you should > be able to read the grade 2 braille fine. You might need to shut up > speech, but it should look fine on display. > > Dave > > At 10:58 AM 4/25/2011, you wrote: >>I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked >>up to my Netbook. >> >>So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn >>off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple >>enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. >>~Jewel >> >>On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> > Good question. >> > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file >> you'd open >> > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. >> > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? >> > Ashley >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Jewel >> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display >> > >> > Hey all, >> > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, >> > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable >> > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books >> > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any >> > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! >> > >> > ~Jewel > > David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Wed Apr 27 00:46:44 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:46:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display References: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <850F760A4804407BADE55DB9BDB7672E@stanford.edu> Oh...those are the monitor cells, I'm pretty sure. You can turn them off in the Brail options in JAWS. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > Thank you all for helping me figure it out. I'm reading my first > digital book, and loving it! I had one more question. On the far left, > it has some "gobbly-gook" (a bunch of symbols that don't make sense to > me). I notice that I am constantly panning over to get the last few > cells of a line, but if that junk on the left side were not there, I > wouldn't have to pan over. Does anyone know what that is, and what I > can do, if anything, to remove it? > > ~Jewel > > On 4/25/11, David Andrews wrote: >> You could also display it in notepad, word pad etc., and you should >> be able to read the grade 2 braille fine. You might need to shut up >> speech, but it should look fine on display. >> >> Dave >> >> At 10:58 AM 4/25/2011, you wrote: >>>I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked >>>up to my Netbook. >>> >>>So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn >>>off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple >>>enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. >>>~Jewel >>> >>>On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> > Good question. >>> > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file >>> you'd open >>> > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. >>> > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? >>> > Ashley >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Jewel >>> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM >>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display >>> > >>> > Hey all, >>> > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, >>> > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable >>> > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books >>> > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any >>> > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! >>> > >>> > ~Jewel >> >> David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com >> Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 01:02:25 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:02:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display In-Reply-To: <850F760A4804407BADE55DB9BDB7672E@stanford.edu> References: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC> <850F760A4804407BADE55DB9BDB7672E@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <47870A31-5540-4E33-ADEB-5FF9FB9D7D8F@gmail.com> Monitor cells? What's that supposed to do? On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:46 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Oh...those are the monitor cells, I'm pretty sure. You can turn them off in the Brail options in JAWS. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > > >> Thank you all for helping me figure it out. I'm reading my first >> digital book, and loving it! I had one more question. On the far left, >> it has some "gobbly-gook" (a bunch of symbols that don't make sense to >> me). I notice that I am constantly panning over to get the last few >> cells of a line, but if that junk on the left side were not there, I >> wouldn't have to pan over. Does anyone know what that is, and what I >> can do, if anything, to remove it? >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 4/25/11, David Andrews wrote: >>> You could also display it in notepad, word pad etc., and you should >>> be able to read the grade 2 braille fine. You might need to shut up >>> speech, but it should look fine on display. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 10:58 AM 4/25/2011, you wrote: >>>> I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked >>>> up to my Netbook. >>>> >>>> So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn >>>> off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple >>>> enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> > Good question. >>>> > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file >>>> you'd open >>>> > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. >>>> > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? >>>> > Ashley >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Jewel >>>> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM >>>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display >>>> > >>>> > Hey all, >>>> > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, >>>> > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable >>>> > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books >>>> > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any >>>> > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! >>>> > >>>> > ~Jewel >>> >>> David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com >>> Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Apr 27 01:04:33 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:04:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about blind teachers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The place to ask this question is the nobe-l list national organization of blind educators. While there are people who have problems, I suspect the number of blind teachers is higher than you may think. Dave At 06:42 PM 4/24/2011, you wrote: >Hi everyone. > >I'm hoping you can help me answer a question I've been thinking about >for a while. How many blind classroom teachers are out there? I'm >talking about blind classroom teachers who work in public schools or >private schools. I know there are plenty of TVIs who work teaching >braille and mobility to blind kids, but what about blind teachers who >work mostly or only with sighted kids? > >I am not an education major, and I honestly never plan on teaching in >a classroom. I'm just curious. I have heard a scary number of >stories about blind people being denied their education degree or >being told they could not become teachers for various reasons. I know >it would be hard to manage a classroom with little or no sight, but >I'm sure accomidations could be made, alternative techniques put into >consideration, so a blind person could be a teacher of sighted >students. If anyone knows anything about this, please share your >story. > >Thanks guys. And, happy Easter! > >-- >Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >Eyes for the Blind > >"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >life." >John 3:16 From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 01:28:00 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:28:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Calling All Students!: May's Nabs MembershipConference Call Message-ID: <4db77133.274d340a.14f0.053a@mx.google.com> Hi, Darian. Just to let you know, Liz had already sent the email to the list about the conference call. We also got the email about the law school settlement. That's awesome that we reached a settlement with them! Just letting you know. By the way, did you get my email asking you if you were the Darian Smith I remember, and were a mentor at the LAW Program? Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: Message-ID: <420769.79792.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yahoo has worked just fine for me. I have to press the disable all updates on my laptop since I am still using Jaws 8.0, but in the computer lab where they use Jaws 11.0 I don't have to do that. I have not had ny problem with Yahoomail. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > From: Chris Nusbaum > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from Rehab andsomeothercollege questions > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 3:20 PM > Hi, Anmol. > > Just curious.  I saw you have a Yahoo email > address.  I thought Yahoo was totally inaccessible to > screen readers, and I used to have it with JAWS.  > Totally inaccessible! Then I found out that Gmail was the > most accessible, so I got it.  However, Yahoo is > accessible to VoiceOver if you get email on an iDevice, like > an iPhone or iTouch.  We tried it out on my mom's > iTouch.  But it didn't say it was sent from any > iDevice.  So, what do you use for your email? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities > motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anmol Bhatia To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:12:03 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from > Rehab andsomeothercollege questions > > Good points Arielle. > The only thing I would add is to keep consideration that > our technology is expensive and I would hate for any of it > to come up missing or stolen.  So maybe at first unless > you know someone and can trust that person get a single room > until you get there and get to know others and have made > friends.  Maybe second semester or second year > you can get a roommate with someone you know. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad.  Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > > From: Arielle Silverman Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests from > Rehab andsomeother college questions > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 12:24 AM > Hi Jordan and all, > > When I applied to college, because of advice from my DSS > counselor and > encouragement from my parents, I disclosed on the housing > application > that I was blind.  I was assigned a single room, and > initially I was > assigned a handicapped-accessible room.  I fought to > get a > non-handicapped room, but decided to keep the single > because I feared > that my technology would crowd out a roommate.  As it > turned > out, I > brought a Braille printer that I didn't ever use.  If > I > could do it > over again, I would never have told housing that I had a > "disability" > or requested a single.  I made an effort to socialize > with > my > floormates, but still I felt I didn't quite click with the > other girls > on my floor and I really think if I'd have had a roommate > it would > have been a lot easier to get in the social swing. > Nowadays, most > college students come with a computer of some sort and I > think many > also bring a printer.  You can get a scanner that's > integrated into > your printer, so if you have a scanner/printer, a computer > and > screen-reading software, you really have no more equipment > than your > sighted dorm-mates will have.  Even if you splurge and > also > get a > Braille Note, Pac Mate or other portable notetaker, it can > easily fit > on your desk, and if you bring a laptop or netbook, your > equipment is > even more compact.  So don't worry about any special > housing > accommodations, unless perhaps if you have a guide dog. > > Arielle > > On 4/24/11, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home wrote: >      I just want to make a few > points. > > The notetakers are definitely catching up on the > technology, but there are > still things that you can and will need to do on a > computer that you cannot > do on a notetaker.  One of these things is > formatting. > Teachers in secondary > school tend to be much more relaxed about formatting, > but, in college, what > passed in secondary school probably will not pass in > college.  I hardly ever > turn any thing in directly from my BrailleNote. > >      I don't think that the person > was using the Braille display *instead* of > VoiceOver.  I don't know how it works on Apple > products, but I know that, on > windows computers, you have to have a screen reader to > act as a driver for a > Braille display. > >      To answer the question of why > you would need both speech and Braille, > some things are easier/faster to do listening and some > are better done with > Braille.  For example, I would find it very hard to > listen to math.  On the > other hand, I can understand JAWS talking a lot faster > than I can read, so I > listen to things for which it is not critical that I > know every little > punctuation mark. > >      One last comment about > emailing work.  In college, most things are not in > a format that can be read on the BrailleNote.  Most > professors use PDF.  Some > use PowerPoint.  Very few use word documents.  > Even if > they do, most use docx > files and/or files with formatting that the bn does > not support. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nusbaum" To: ; > "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests > from Rehab andsomeother > college questions > > > Hi, guys. > > Just a few thoughts on David's suggestions.  > I agree with your comment > about the laptop vs the notetaker.  With the > newer versions of the > notetakers like the Braille-Note Apex that I have, > you can do most > anything that you could on a computer with your > notetaker as it's all > computer technology now instead of PDA > technology.  However, if you're > doing a Internet research project or something, > the more tools in your > toolbox, the better.  I know that some sites > are accessible to screen > readers but not to notetakers, and vice > versa.  So I would reccomend > definitely seeing if you can get both.  Now > keep in mind, as I said > before, rehab probably isn't going to get all the > technology you need for > you, but you never know.  You might need > another funding source, like a > Lions club or another foundation like the I CAN > Foundation that I > mentioned in the last email to you.  On the > display vs notetaker and > Braille embosser topics, I would suggest a > notetaker over a Braille > display for its portability and convenience.  > I would reccomend a > Braille-Note Apex over the Braille-Sense, based on > what I've heard about > the Braille-Sense.  However, one of the NFB > executives was showing me a > Braille display called RefreshaBraille from APH, > which he uses for his > iPod instead of VoiceOver.  It really doesn't > matter, in my opinion, > whether you get a screen reader for your computer > or a Braille display. > It really serves the same purpose.  If you > have a screen reader, it's > already reading the screen, so why would you need > a Braille display, and > vice versa? On the Braille embosser, it all comes > down to individual > preference.  I used to love hardcopy Braille > until I got the Apex.  Now my > > teachers email homework or classwork to me and I > detach it right onto my > Braille-Note.  I also email my teachers > homework as attachments to emails > instead of printing them out and labeling them in > Braille, which saves a > lot of time.  I also use the good old thumb > drive all the time in school. > What's awesome about that is that in the middle of > class, my teacher will > say "Chris, I need your thumb drive to put a paper > on it for today." If > he/she has an electronic copy in their computer of > the worksheet, they can > > stick it on my thumb drive and I can import it > into the notetaker.  It's a > > life saver! But if you prefer hardcopy Braille, > it's a louder process and > you'll use a lot more paper, but it's whatever you > prefer.  If you have > any more questions, let me and the list > know.  Good luck! > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp > Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David To: "'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" > Date sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology > requests from Rehab and > someother college questions > > Hi, Jordyn.  Here are some things to keep in > mind.  Definitely try to get > a > laptop with a screen reader.  I know that > some agencies may not purchase > computers, but rather the adaptive devices like > screen readers, > notetakers, > etc.  But there are always exceptions, it > seems.  You'll want a powerful > computer with quite a bit of ram and processing > speed, as well as a > decently > sized hard drive.  As for OCR, if you're > reasonably good with computers, > look > in to OmniPage, which is a mainstream OCR solution > with excellent OCR > accuracy.  I believe that it might be better > than Kurzweil and OpenBook, > and > you should be able to get it for less than > $200.  Be aware that OmniPage > is > not quite as easy to learn as OpenBook and > Kurzweil, but if you are a > decent > computer user, you'll have little trouble with > it.  As for the Braille > display and notetaker, I would personally > recommend a notetaker with > Braille > output, since it's very portable, and you can just > open it and take notes > immediately, rather than waiting for the laptop to > boot up.  I'd get the > notetaker before the Braille display, since most > notetakers can act as > Braille displays.  However, I don't think > it's as convenient as a > dedicated > Braille display.  Maybe they'll get you > both.  A Braille embosser would be > nice, but they can be loud depending on the model, > and that may be a > problem > in a dorm setting.  But if you really like > using hard-copy Braille, then > do > try getting one.  It would be preferable than > having to schedule time to > use > the university's.  Those are my thoughts. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf > Of Jordyn Castor > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: [nabs-l] Reasonable technology requests > from Rehab and some other > college questions > > Hi again guys! > I'm going to college in the fall, as I already > said yesterday.  This is > why I have so many questions! I just want to be > sure I'm doing > everything right, and what better way to do this > then asking other blind > students? :) So, thanks for all your great advice > on everything! > My other question is, what are reasonable things > to ask Rehab for in the > way of technology? > I'm thinking a laptop, 40 cell braille display, > Window Eyes, and a > printer scanner combo thinggy with software like > OpenBook or Kurzweil.  I > don't know if I'd get a notetaker though as these > are super expensive. > lol Any suggestions or other things you'd ask for? > What are you all > using as far as technology in college? > My college also has a place where I can, I think, > borrow technology like > an embosser or Braille Display.  Should I use > that rather than asking > rehab for some of the things like the display and > the printer? I think > it would be awesome to have a printer in my dorm > though lol! > Oh, speaking of dorms, do most of you have a > roommate or a single room? > A lot of my blind friends seem to have single > rooms because of the > expensive technology, but, I want a roommate, I > think.  lol Thoughts? > Anyway, I'll stop rambling! :) > Thanks again, > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolin > i%40wavecable.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres > ident%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone:  602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbha > tia%40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Wed Apr 27 03:53:33 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:53:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display References: <63983EE13D5E42CB9F71D4BFD5A4E6BF@OwnerPC><850F760A4804407BADE55DB9BDB7672E@stanford.edu> <47870A31-5540-4E33-ADEB-5FF9FB9D7D8F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42268C287361432EBACBF8D9A73E8BC0@stanford.edu> I don't remember. It was summer of 2009 that I last used a Braille display connected to the computer. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display > Monitor cells? > What's that supposed to do? > > > On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:46 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Oh...those are the monitor cells, I'm pretty sure. You can turn them off >> in the Brail options in JAWS. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display >> >> >>> Thank you all for helping me figure it out. I'm reading my first >>> digital book, and loving it! I had one more question. On the far left, >>> it has some "gobbly-gook" (a bunch of symbols that don't make sense to >>> me). I notice that I am constantly panning over to get the last few >>> cells of a line, but if that junk on the left side were not there, I >>> wouldn't have to pan over. Does anyone know what that is, and what I >>> can do, if anything, to remove it? >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> On 4/25/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>> You could also display it in notepad, word pad etc., and you should >>>> be able to read the grade 2 braille fine. You might need to shut up >>>> speech, but it should look fine on display. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 10:58 AM 4/25/2011, you wrote: >>>>> I have JAWS 11 and yes, I have Duxbury. The braille display is hoooked >>>>> up to my Netbook. >>>>> >>>>> So, when I download a .brf file, I should open it in Duxbury, and turn >>>>> off the grade 1 braille translation on my display? That sounds simple >>>>> enough. I'll try it today, and see from there. >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Good question. >>>>> > You can read .brf on a braille display but I'm not sure what file >>>>> you'd open >>>>> > them in. Duxbury would work if you have that. >>>>> > Is the braille display hooked to the computer? >>>>> > Ashley >>>>> > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Jewel >>>>> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:34 PM >>>>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Electronic Braille on a Display >>>>> > >>>>> > Hey all, >>>>> > Does anyone have step-by-step directions on how to read .brf files, >>>>> > such as those from Bookshare.org? I have a Focus 40 Blue refreshable >>>>> > Braille display, and would like to learn how to read Braille books >>>>> > instead of listening to a stupid synthetic voice all the time. Any >>>>> > links or personal directions would be greatly appreciated! >>>>> > >>>>> > ~Jewel >>>> >>>> David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com >>>> Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 04:08:30 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:08:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: Hi all, We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the world as a whole? Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of people who do things differently from having full access to societal goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques to accomplish life tasks? On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members could fully function without light. What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. Arielle From k7uij at panix.com Wed Apr 27 04:36:33 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:36:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00b301cc0494$b06c72f0$114558d0$@panix.com> I think the question is unanswerable. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Hi all, We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the world as a whole? Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of people who do things differently from having full access to societal goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques to accomplish life tasks? On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members could fully function without light. What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 10:00:12 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 06:00:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <00b301cc0494$b06c72f0$114558d0$@panix.com> References: <00b301cc0494$b06c72f0$114558d0$@panix.com> Message-ID: I think the easiest way to consider this question without letting our own emotional biases sway our response is to ask ourselves the same question as it relates to another disability. I know what my snap-answer would be to whether blindness should be eradicated from society on the grounds of making the world a better place... but now slow down, back up and ask, is the answer the same if we're talking about deafness? How about down's syndrome? or cerebral palsy? On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Mike Freeman wrote: > I think the question is unanswerable. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Hi all, > > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:55:42 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:55:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arielle: I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of many things that make up an individual, and in a world where genetics would be preprogramed, it just be too perfect. It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial. I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which blindness and other disabilities are completely eraticated would just be too artificial, almost like we literally managed to create our own world in a way. Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who were born cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so to speak. Of course, I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold world in which science would create people which I hope would never happen but its a good talking point anyway. Jorge On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 11:58:20 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:58:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <00b301cc0494$b06c72f0$114558d0$@panix.com> Message-ID: Again, wouldn't eliminating all of these be too artificial? What would we have to do in that case? Create people? On Apr 27, 2011, at 6:00 AM, Jamie Principato wrote: > I think the easiest way to consider this question without letting our own > emotional biases sway our response is to ask ourselves the same question as > it relates to another disability. I know what my snap-answer would be to > whether blindness should be eradicated from society on the grounds of making > the world a better place... but now slow down, back up and ask, is the > answer the same if we're talking about deafness? How about down's syndrome? > or cerebral palsy? > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Mike Freeman wrote: > >> I think the question is unanswerable. >> >> Mike Freeman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:08 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> Hi all, >> >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 19:27:01 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:27:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] living in FL Message-ID: Hi all: Just wondering, for any of you living in or that know of someone who lives in FL, how is it in terms of services for the blind? Are they quite responsive or is it hard to get in contact with them? Thanks, Jorge From inland2wards at att.net Wed Apr 27 21:38:48 2011 From: inland2wards at att.net (Anne Ward) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:38:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] CAPVI news: website for college students with disabilities Message-ID: <7EC7A3D1D5FF4E0A82479117026122FF@dennisPC> Someone sent me this info, I'm passing it on to you From: gabriela mccall [mailto:weconnectnow2008 at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 6:55 PM To: info Subject: Website for College Students with Disabilities Dear Support for Families of Children with Disabilities, I am a college student with a learning disability who is enrolled at Louisiana State University. I received a grant from YP4 to develop a website to serve college students with disabilities in an effort to connect and integrate them more as a virtual community with a voice on important issues. I would like to share the link of the We Connect Now website with you so that you may share it with the students that you have contact with. The website can be accessed at http://weconnectnow.wordpress.com/ The website has been used as a resource by institutions of higher learning and has been linked by colleges and universities and groups serving people with disabilities in 49 states and at least 3 foreign countries. I thank you for any and all help that you and your office may give me in promoting this project as a service to all college students with disabilities. Sincerely, Gabriela McCall Delgado The Family Voices of California general listserv provides information about resources, trainings, policy updates, action items—all affecting children and youth with special health care needs. From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 22:15:46 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:15:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster Message-ID: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> Hi, all. I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews ) To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Linda Bandov Pazin Director of Public Relations Live Nation Entertainment National Federation of the Blind (310) 867-7000 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 lindabandov at livenation.com (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will make its website (www.ticketmaster.com) fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access technology by December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. Ticketmaster customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and services, including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal access to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to working with the company to achieve that goal. The National Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until the blind have equal access to the full range of products and services available to the public through the Internet and other information technologies." "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the Blind is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that they can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website so that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a comprehensive accessibility program that will include the development of an accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of both an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials of the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the Ticketmaster services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will submit its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind can be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification program continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they remain compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains accessible, its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind will work with the site developers to remedy them. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. About Live Nation Entertainment Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live entertainment and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation Concerts, Front Line Management Group and Live Nation Network. Ticketmaster.com is the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. Live Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist management company, representing over 250 artists. These businesses power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into the 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its live event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit www.livenation.com/investors From th404 at comcast.net Wed Apr 27 22:30:52 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:30:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] News on Last Conference Call Message-ID: <3AC93E785BEC4605B5860BA68C713A44@tinad85eb5cc31> Does anyone know if the last conference call will be archived? I haven't heard anything. Thanks. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 00:19:36 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (dsmithnfb at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:19:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] News on Last Conference Call In-Reply-To: <3AC93E785BEC4605B5860BA68C713A44@tinad85eb5cc31> References: <3AC93E785BEC4605B5860BA68C713A44@tinad85eb5cc31> Message-ID: <053028F1-9856-41C2-9DCE-6B17C56061D5@gmail.com> It will be posted soon Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2011, at 3:30 PM, "Tina Hansen" wrote: > Does anyone know if the last conference call will be archived? I haven't heard anything. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 02:03:03 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:03:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> Hi, chris. I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we ask for such differential treatment. On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is impossible. This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but it's something to think about. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster Hi, all. I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews ) To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Linda Bandov Pazin Director of Public Relations Live Nation Entertainment National Federation of the Blind (310) 867-7000 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 lindabandov at livenation.com (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will make its website (www.ticketmaster.com) fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access technology by December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. Ticketmaster customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and services, including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal access to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to working with the company to achieve that goal. The National Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until the blind have equal access to the full range of products and services available to the public through the Internet and other information technologies." "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the Blind is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that they can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website so that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a comprehensive accessibility program that will include the development of an accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of both an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials of the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the Ticketmaster services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will submit its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind can be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification program continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they remain compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains accessible, its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind will work with the site developers to remedy them. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. About Live Nation Entertainment Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live entertainment and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation Concerts, Front Line Management Group and Live Nation Network. Ticketmaster.com is the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. Live Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist management company, representing over 250 artists. These businesses power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into the 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its live event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit www.livenation.com/investors _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 28 02:14:55 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:14:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> Message-ID: <4FAF5F2DF9244742A5B8D7391F3F06CA@stanford.edu> I would also like to add that designing a website that is 100% compatible with a BrailleNote can be rather tricky. Don't quote me on this, but I think that the BrailleNote supports even fewer web features than smart phones. Often, small changes can be made to make websites compatible with screen readers, but compatibility with the BrailleNote would mean almost complete reconstruction. Please do not take this to mean that I do not think that websites should be compatible with the BrailleNote. I am just trying to explain why things are the way that are. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster > Hi, chris. > > I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and > some > other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with > respect > and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is > internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we > expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. > > I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, > they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille > display. > But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- > PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far > less > expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; > others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their > smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why > should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say > that > our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to > afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient > reason > to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. > There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a > personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my > view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to > a > request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before > we > ask for such differential treatment. > > On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that > government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both > fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart > phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be > maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So > many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web > accessibility. > > I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But > one > of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is > impossible. > > This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether > note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the > blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these > manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain > that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but > it's something to think about. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > Hi, all. > > I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB > has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web > site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, > I've > noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen > reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular > form > of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want > NFB > to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using > electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using > screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to > the > BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his > Braille-Note > for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop > yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that > the > NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites > accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, > was > totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site > accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to > take > Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we > were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris > Danielsen > Linda Bandov Pazin > > Director of Public > Relations > Live Nation Entertainment > > National Federation of the > Blind (310) > 867-7000 > > (410) 659-9314, extension > 2330 > lindabandov at livenation.com > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind > Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster > > > > > > Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind > Users > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of > the > Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by > blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with > Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the > world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully > accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will > make > its website (www.ticketmaster.com) > fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access > technology by > December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on > the > computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the > Blind, > said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered > primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular > ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. > Ticketmaster > customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and > services, > including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its > website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that > Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal > access > to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to > working with the company to achieve that goal. The National > Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until > the > blind have equal access to the full range of products and > services > available to the public through the Internet and other > information > technologies." > > > > "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to > participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best > possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of > Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the > Blind > is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that > they > can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for > their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are > committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website > so > that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." > > > > Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a > comprehensive > accessibility program that will include the development of an > accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of > both > an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. > > > > Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials > of > the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the > Ticketmaster > services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will > submit > its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web > Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and > applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind > can > be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification > program > continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they > remain > compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains > accessible, > its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If > accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind > will > work with the site developers to remedy them. > > > > > > ### > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the > Blind > is the largest and most influential membership organization of > blind > people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's > lives > through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs > encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading > force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's > blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of > the > Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center > in > the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > About Live Nation Entertainment > > Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live > entertainment > and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: > Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation > Concerts, > Front Line Management Group and Live Nation > Network. Ticketmaster.com is the > global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five > eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. > Live > Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than > 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist > management company, representing over 250 artists. These > businesses > power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment > marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into > the > 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its > live > event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit > www.livenation.com/investors > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 02:27:58 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:27:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> Message-ID: <1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com> Mike: Completely agree. And, on the question of note takers having better processors… if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > Hi, chris. > > I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some > other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect > and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is > internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we > expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. > > I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, > they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. > But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- > PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less > expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; > others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their > smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why > should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that > our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to > afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason > to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. > There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a > personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my > view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a > request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we > ask for such differential treatment. > > On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that > government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both > fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart > phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be > maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So > many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. > > I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one > of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is > impossible. > > This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether > note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the > blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these > manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain > that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but > it's something to think about. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > Hi, all. > > I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB > has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web > site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've > noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen > reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form > of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB > to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using > electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using > screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the > BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note > for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop > yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the > NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites > accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was > totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site > accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take > Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we > were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris > Danielsen > Linda Bandov Pazin > > Director of Public > Relations > Live Nation Entertainment > > National Federation of the > Blind (310) > 867-7000 > > (410) 659-9314, extension > 2330 > lindabandov at livenation.com > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind > Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster > > > > > > Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of > the > Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by > blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with > Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the > world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully > accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will > make > its website (www.ticketmaster.com) > fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access > technology by > December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on > the > computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the > Blind, > said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered > primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular > ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. > Ticketmaster > customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and > services, > including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its > website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that > Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal > access > to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to > working with the company to achieve that goal. The National > Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until > the > blind have equal access to the full range of products and > services > available to the public through the Internet and other > information > technologies." > > > > "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to > participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best > possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of > Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the > Blind > is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that > they > can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for > their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are > committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website > so > that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." > > > > Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a > comprehensive > accessibility program that will include the development of an > accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of > both > an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. > > > > Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials > of > the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the > Ticketmaster > services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will > submit > its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web > Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and > applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind > can > be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification > program > continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they > remain > compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains > accessible, > its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If > accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind > will > work with the site developers to remedy them. > > > > > > ### > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the > Blind > is the largest and most influential membership organization of > blind > people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's > lives > through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs > encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading > force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's > blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of > the > Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center > in > the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > About Live Nation Entertainment > > Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live > entertainment > and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: > Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation > Concerts, > Front Line Management Group and Live Nation > Network. Ticketmaster.com is the > global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five > eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. > Live > Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than > 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist > management company, representing over 250 artists. These > businesses > power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment > marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into > the > 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its > live > event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit > www.livenation.com/investors > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 02:35:47 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:35:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <00b301cc0494$b06c72f0$114558d0$@panix.com> Message-ID: <007201cc054c$fb84a790$f28df6b0$@panix.com> I don't think we're going to have to worry about the problem for a long, long time. And I contend that if we say that blindness has inherent virtues predominantly structured for the sighted, we are giving blindness special status beyond its just being a characteristic. For myself, I don't see blindness having such outstanding virtues that it's worth bucking the majority and insisting that the world be restructured for us (as we must do, at least with respect to technology). So if becoming sighted could be painless and it could be guaranteed that the retraining period would be relatively brief, I see no reason to avoid becoming sighted. I don't even think I'd worry about human cloning for nurture plays just as much a part in who and what we are as nature does. But, as I say, all this strikes me like the scholastic disputation as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Principato Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. I think the easiest way to consider this question without letting our own emotional biases sway our response is to ask ourselves the same question as it relates to another disability. I know what my snap-answer would be to whether blindness should be eradicated from society on the grounds of making the world a better place... but now slow down, back up and ask, is the answer the same if we're talking about deafness? How about down's syndrome? or cerebral palsy? On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Mike Freeman wrote: > I think the question is unanswerable. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Hi all, > > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail .com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 28 02:37:29 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:37:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com><005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster Mike: Completely agree. And, on the question of note takers having better processors… if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > Hi, chris. > > I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and > some > other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with > respect > and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is > internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we > expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. > > I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, > they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille > display. > But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- > PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far > less > expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; > others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their > smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why > should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say > that > our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to > afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient > reason > to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. > There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a > personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my > view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to > a > request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before > we > ask for such differential treatment. > > On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that > government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both > fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart > phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be > maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So > many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web > accessibility. > > I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But > one > of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is > impossible. > > This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether > note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the > blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these > manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain > that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but > it's something to think about. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > Hi, all. > > I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB > has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web > site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, > I've > noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen > reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular > form > of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want > NFB > to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using > electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using > screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to > the > BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his > Braille-Note > for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop > yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that > the > NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites > accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, > was > totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site > accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to > take > Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we > were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris > Danielsen > Linda Bandov Pazin > > Director of Public > Relations > Live Nation Entertainment > > National Federation of the > Blind (310) > 867-7000 > > (410) 659-9314, extension > 2330 > lindabandov at livenation.com > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind > Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster > > > > > > Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind > Users > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of > the > Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by > blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with > Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the > world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully > accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will > make > its website (www.ticketmaster.com) > fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access > technology by > December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on > the > computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the > Blind, > said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered > primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular > ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. > Ticketmaster > customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and > services, > including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its > website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that > Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal > access > to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to > working with the company to achieve that goal. The National > Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until > the > blind have equal access to the full range of products and > services > available to the public through the Internet and other > information > technologies." > > > > "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to > participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best > possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of > Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the > Blind > is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that > they > can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for > their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are > committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website > so > that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." > > > > Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a > comprehensive > accessibility program that will include the development of an > accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of > both > an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. > > > > Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials > of > the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the > Ticketmaster > services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will > submit > its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web > Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and > applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind > can > be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification > program > continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they > remain > compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains > accessible, > its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If > accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind > will > work with the site developers to remedy them. > > > > > > ### > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the > Blind > is the largest and most influential membership organization of > blind > people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's > lives > through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs > encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading > force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's > blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of > the > Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center > in > the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > About Live Nation Entertainment > > Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live > entertainment > and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: > Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation > Concerts, > Front Line Management Group and Live Nation > Network. Ticketmaster.com is the > global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five > eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. > Live > Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than > 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist > management company, representing over 250 artists. These > businesses > power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment > marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into > the > 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its > live > event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit > www.livenation.com/investors > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 02:54:08 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:54:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <4FAF5F2DF9244742A5B8D7391F3F06CA@stanford.edu> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <4FAF5F2DF9244742A5B8D7391F3F06CA@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <3AF95015-23C9-4B90-AF2D-C35039A3CA0F@gmail.com> Think you're right, cause the Braillenote uses an old version of Windows CE which predates Windows Mobile. On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I would also like to add that designing a website that is 100% compatible with a BrailleNote can be rather tricky. Don't quote me on this, but I think that the BrailleNote supports even fewer web features than smart phones. Often, small changes can be made to make websites compatible with screen readers, but compatibility with the BrailleNote would mean almost complete reconstruction. Please do not take this to mean that I do not think that websites should be compatible with the BrailleNote. I am just trying to explain why things are the way that are. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster > > >> Hi, chris. >> >> I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some >> other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect >> and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is >> internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we >> expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. >> >> I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, >> they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. >> But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- >> PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less >> expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; >> others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their >> smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why >> should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that >> our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to >> afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason >> to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. >> There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a >> personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my >> view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a >> request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we >> ask for such differential treatment. >> >> On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that >> government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both >> fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart >> phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be >> maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So >> many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. >> >> I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one >> of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is >> impossible. >> >> This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether >> note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the >> blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these >> manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain >> that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but >> it's something to think about. >> >> Mike Freeman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> Hi, all. >> >> I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB >> has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web >> site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've >> noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen >> reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form >> of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB >> to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using >> electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using >> screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the >> BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note >> for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop >> yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the >> NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites >> accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was >> totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site >> accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take >> Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we >> were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris >> Danielsen >> Linda Bandov Pazin >> >> Director of Public >> Relations >> Live Nation Entertainment >> >> National Federation of the >> Blind (310) >> 867-7000 >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension >> 2330 >> lindabandov at livenation.com >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster >> >> >> >> >> >> Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users >> >> >> >> Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of >> the >> Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by >> blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with >> Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the >> world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully >> accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will >> make >> its website (www.ticketmaster.com) >> fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access >> technology by >> December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on >> the >> computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered >> primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular >> ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. >> Ticketmaster >> customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and >> services, >> including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its >> website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that >> Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal >> access >> to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to >> working with the company to achieve that goal. The National >> Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until >> the >> blind have equal access to the full range of products and >> services >> available to the public through the Internet and other >> information >> technologies." >> >> >> >> "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to >> participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best >> possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of >> Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that >> they >> can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for >> their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are >> committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website >> so >> that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." >> >> >> >> Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a >> comprehensive >> accessibility program that will include the development of an >> accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of >> both >> an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. >> >> >> >> Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials >> of >> the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the >> Ticketmaster >> services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will >> submit >> its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web >> Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and >> applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind >> can >> be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification >> program >> continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they >> remain >> compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains >> accessible, >> its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If >> accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind >> will >> work with the site developers to remedy them. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is the largest and most influential membership organization of >> blind >> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's >> lives >> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >> the >> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >> in >> the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> >> >> About Live Nation Entertainment >> >> Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live >> entertainment >> and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: >> Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation >> Concerts, >> Front Line Management Group and Live Nation >> Network. Ticketmaster.com is the >> global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five >> eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. >> Live >> Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than >> 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist >> management company, representing over 250 artists. These >> businesses >> power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment >> marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into >> the >> 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its >> live >> event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit >> www.livenation.com/investors >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Apr 28 02:56:59 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:56:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: <20110428025659.27655.60473@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Arielle, I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of applications having nothihng to do with blindness. In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would not learn nearly as much as we have. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi all, > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > Arielle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 03:01:34 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:01:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com><005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com> <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <008201cc0550$96053cf0$c20fb6d0$@panix.com> MMM ... I thought there was a version of duxbury for the Mac but I could be wrong. Don't netbook PC's load up pretty quickly? I agree with you, though, that reports of the demise of note-takers may well be premature. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster Mike: Completely agree. And, on the question of note takers having better processors. if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > Hi, chris. > > I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and > some > other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with > respect > and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is > internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we > expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. > > I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, > they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille > display. > But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- > PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far > less > expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; > others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their > smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why > should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say > that > our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to > afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient > reason > to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. > There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a > personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my > view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to > a > request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before > we > ask for such differential treatment. > > On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that > government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both > fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart > phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be > maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So > many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web > accessibility. > > I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But > one > of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is > impossible. > > This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether > note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the > blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these > manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain > that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but > it's something to think about. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > Hi, all. > > I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB > has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web > site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, > I've > noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen > reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular > form > of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want > NFB > to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using > electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using > screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to > the > BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his > Braille-Note > for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop > yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that > the > NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites > accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, > was > totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site > accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to > take > Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we > were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris > Danielsen > Linda Bandov Pazin > > Director of Public > Relations > Live Nation Entertainment > > National Federation of the > Blind (310) > 867-7000 > > (410) 659-9314, extension > 2330 > lindabandov at livenation.com > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind > Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster > > > > > > Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind > Users > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of > the > Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by > blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with > Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the > world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully > accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will > make > its website (www.ticketmaster.com) > fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access > technology by > December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on > the > computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the > Blind, > said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered > primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular > ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. > Ticketmaster > customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and > services, > including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its > website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that > Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal > access > to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to > working with the company to achieve that goal. The National > Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until > the > blind have equal access to the full range of products and > services > available to the public through the Internet and other > information > technologies." > > > > "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to > participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best > possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of > Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the > Blind > is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that > they > can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for > their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are > committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website > so > that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." > > > > Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a > comprehensive > accessibility program that will include the development of an > accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of > both > an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. > > > > Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials > of > the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the > Ticketmaster > services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will > submit > its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web > Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and > applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind > can > be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification > program > continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they > remain > compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains > accessible, > its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If > accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind > will > work with the site developers to remedy them. > > > > > > ### > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the > Blind > is the largest and most influential membership organization of > blind > people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's > lives > through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs > encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading > force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's > blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of > the > Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center > in > the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > About Live Nation Entertainment > > Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live > entertainment > and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: > Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation > Concerts, > Front Line Management Group and Live Nation > Network. Ticketmaster.com is the > global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five > eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. > Live > Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than > 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist > management company, representing over 250 artists. These > businesses > power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment > marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into > the > 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its > live > event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit > www.livenation.com/investors > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae z%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Apr 28 03:22:35 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 23:22:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: <20110428032235.12736.88672@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Mike, How is that? We talk about the virtues of being sighted that make it useful. So why not discuss the virtues of being blind, too. Either way, we're all clear that either condition is caused by a characteristic and that neither is more special or worse than the other. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I don't think we're going to have to worry about the problem for a long, > long time. And I contend that if we say that blindness has inherent virtues > predominantly structured for the sighted, we are giving blindness special > status beyond its just being a characteristic. > For myself, I don't see blindness having such outstanding virtues that it's > worth bucking the majority and insisting that the world be restructured for > us (as we must do, at least with respect to technology). So if becoming > sighted could be painless and it could be guaranteed that the retraining > period would be relatively brief, I see no reason to avoid becoming sighted. > I don't even think I'd worry about human cloning for nurture plays just as > much a part in who and what we are as nature does. > But, as I say, all this strikes me like the scholastic disputation as to how > many angels can dance on the head of a pin. > Mike Freeman > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jamie Principato > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > I think the easiest way to consider this question without letting our own > emotional biases sway our response is to ask ourselves the same question as > it relates to another disability. I know what my snap-answer would be to > whether blindness should be eradicated from society on the grounds of making > the world a better place... but now slow down, back up and ask, is the > answer the same if we're talking about deafness? How about down's syndrome? > or cerebral palsy? > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Mike Freeman wrote: >> I think the question is unanswerable. >> Mike Freeman >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:08 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> Hi all, >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> Arielle >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail > .com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 03:46:06 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:46:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <20110428032235.12736.88672@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110428032235.12736.88672@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <009b01cc0556$ce815310$6b83f930$@panix.com> I guess I don't necessarily see any virtues to being blind. But that doesn't make blindness more than a damned nuisance in a world structured for the sighted. If everyone was blind, sight well might not be a virtue. Ever read H.G. Wells' story on this? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:23 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Mike, How is that? We talk about the virtues of being sighted that make it useful. So why not discuss the virtues of being blind, too. Either way, we're all clear that either condition is caused by a characteristic and that neither is more special or worse than the other. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I don't think we're going to have to worry about the problem for a long, > long time. And I contend that if we say that blindness has inherent virtues > predominantly structured for the sighted, we are giving blindness special > status beyond its just being a characteristic. > For myself, I don't see blindness having such outstanding virtues that it's > worth bucking the majority and insisting that the world be restructured for > us (as we must do, at least with respect to technology). So if becoming > sighted could be painless and it could be guaranteed that the retraining > period would be relatively brief, I see no reason to avoid becoming sighted. > I don't even think I'd worry about human cloning for nurture plays just as > much a part in who and what we are as nature does. > But, as I say, all this strikes me like the scholastic disputation as to how > many angels can dance on the head of a pin. > Mike Freeman > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jamie Principato > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > I think the easiest way to consider this question without letting our own > emotional biases sway our response is to ask ourselves the same question as > it relates to another disability. I know what my snap-answer would be to > whether blindness should be eradicated from society on the grounds of making > the world a better place... but now slow down, back up and ask, is the > answer the same if we're talking about deafness? How about down's syndrome? > or cerebral palsy? > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Mike Freeman wrote: >> I think the question is unanswerable. >> Mike Freeman >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:08 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> Hi all, >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> Arielle >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail > .com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 02:51:31 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:51:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com><005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com> <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <8F24D178-A332-47E8-8525-9EE9DD154B15@gmail.com> Don't think so. On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster > > > Mike: > Completely agree. > > And, on the question of note takers having better processors… > if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, > and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. > > I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > >> Hi, chris. >> >> I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some >> other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect >> and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is >> internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we >> expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. >> >> I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, >> they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. >> But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- >> PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less >> expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; >> others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their >> smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why >> should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that >> our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to >> afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason >> to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. >> There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a >> personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my >> view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a >> request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we >> ask for such differential treatment. >> >> On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that >> government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both >> fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart >> phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be >> maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So >> many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. >> >> I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one >> of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is >> impossible. >> >> This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether >> note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the >> blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these >> manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain >> that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but >> it's something to think about. >> >> Mike Freeman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> Hi, all. >> >> I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB >> has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web >> site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've >> noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen >> reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form >> of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB >> to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using >> electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using >> screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the >> BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note >> for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop >> yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the >> NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites >> accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was >> totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site >> accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take >> Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we >> were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris >> Danielsen >> Linda Bandov Pazin >> >> Director of Public >> Relations >> Live Nation Entertainment >> >> National Federation of the >> Blind (310) >> 867-7000 >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension >> 2330 >> lindabandov at livenation.com >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster >> >> >> >> >> >> Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users >> >> >> >> Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of >> the >> Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by >> blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with >> Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the >> world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully >> accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will >> make >> its website (www.ticketmaster.com) >> fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access >> technology by >> December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on >> the >> computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered >> primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular >> ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. >> Ticketmaster >> customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and >> services, >> including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its >> website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that >> Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal >> access >> to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to >> working with the company to achieve that goal. The National >> Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until >> the >> blind have equal access to the full range of products and >> services >> available to the public through the Internet and other >> information >> technologies." >> >> >> >> "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to >> participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best >> possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of >> Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that >> they >> can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for >> their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are >> committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website >> so >> that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." >> >> >> >> Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a >> comprehensive >> accessibility program that will include the development of an >> accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of >> both >> an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. >> >> >> >> Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials >> of >> the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the >> Ticketmaster >> services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will >> submit >> its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web >> Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and >> applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind >> can >> be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification >> program >> continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they >> remain >> compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains >> accessible, >> its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If >> accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind >> will >> work with the site developers to remedy them. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is the largest and most influential membership organization of >> blind >> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's >> lives >> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >> the >> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >> in >> the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> >> >> About Live Nation Entertainment >> >> Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live >> entertainment >> and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: >> Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation >> Concerts, >> Front Line Management Group and Live Nation >> Network. Ticketmaster.com is the >> global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five >> eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. >> Live >> Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than >> 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist >> management company, representing over 250 artists. These >> businesses >> power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment >> marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into >> the >> 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its >> live >> event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit >> www.livenation.com/investors >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 03:53:40 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:53:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <20110428025659.27655.60473@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> References: <20110428025659.27655.60473@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <009c01cc0557$dd0863f0$97192bd0$@panix.com> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they just taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness caused some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the future. Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does this mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness causes harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Arielle, I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of applications having nothihng to do with blindness. In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would not learn nearly as much as we have. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi all, > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > Arielle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 05:21:03 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 01:21:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com><005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com> <48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <75DFEF66-337B-4173-A867-7F3E4AC76BE9@gmail.com> I would say that eventually, notetakers will only be useful for those who want both Braille output and input. I love reading in Braille, but when working on a computer I simply don't need it. I'm writing from a Macbook air which takes 10 seconds to boot and is completely accessible. Why do I need a notetaker which costs at least two or three times more? I can use this computer to do many things which a notetaker cannot do at all, and it just works! Oh, and I think there is a translation software for Mac, although I can't remember its name. If you really need it I can try to find it for you... IC On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster > > > Mike: > Completely agree. > > And, on the question of note takers having better processors… > if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, > and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. > > I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > >> Hi, chris. >> >> I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some >> other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect >> and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is >> internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we >> expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. >> >> I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, >> they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. >> But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- >> PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less >> expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; >> others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their >> smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why >> should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that >> our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to >> afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason >> to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. >> There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a >> personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my >> view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a >> request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we >> ask for such differential treatment. >> >> On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that >> government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both >> fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart >> phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be >> maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So >> many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. >> >> I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one >> of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is >> impossible. >> >> This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether >> note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the >> blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these >> manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain >> that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but >> it's something to think about. >> >> Mike Freeman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> Hi, all. >> >> I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB >> has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web >> site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've >> noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen >> reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form >> of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB >> to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using >> electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using >> screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the >> BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note >> for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop >> yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the >> NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites >> accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was >> totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site >> accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take >> Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we >> were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris >> Danielsen >> Linda Bandov Pazin >> >> Director of Public >> Relations >> Live Nation Entertainment >> >> National Federation of the >> Blind (310) >> 867-7000 >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension >> 2330 >> lindabandov at livenation.com >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster >> >> >> >> >> >> Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users >> >> >> >> Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of >> the >> Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by >> blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with >> Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the >> world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully >> accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will >> make >> its website (www.ticketmaster.com) >> fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access >> technology by >> December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on >> the >> computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered >> primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular >> ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. >> Ticketmaster >> customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and >> services, >> including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its >> website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that >> Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal >> access >> to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to >> working with the company to achieve that goal. The National >> Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until >> the >> blind have equal access to the full range of products and >> services >> available to the public through the Internet and other >> information >> technologies." >> >> >> >> "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to >> participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best >> possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of >> Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that >> they >> can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for >> their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are >> committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website >> so >> that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." >> >> >> >> Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a >> comprehensive >> accessibility program that will include the development of an >> accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of >> both >> an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. >> >> >> >> Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials >> of >> the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the >> Ticketmaster >> services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will >> submit >> its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web >> Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and >> applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind >> can >> be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification >> program >> continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they >> remain >> compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains >> accessible, >> its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If >> accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind >> will >> work with the site developers to remedy them. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is the largest and most influential membership organization of >> blind >> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's >> lives >> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >> the >> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >> in >> the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> >> >> About Live Nation Entertainment >> >> Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live >> entertainment >> and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: >> Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation >> Concerts, >> Front Line Management Group and Live Nation >> Network. Ticketmaster.com is the >> global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five >> eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. >> Live >> Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than >> 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist >> management company, representing over 250 artists. These >> businesses >> power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment >> marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into >> the >> 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its >> live >> event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit >> www.livenation.com/investors >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 28 05:26:01 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:26:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. References: <20110428025659.27655.60473@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> <009c01cc0557$dd0863f0$97192bd0$@panix.com> Message-ID: <64E76ABDC93D4EB9AB4691580648F6DD@stanford.edu> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot judge people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not all of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a person looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they > just > taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness > caused > some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the > future. > > Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, > while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* > blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does > this > mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the > destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". > Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness causes > harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see > any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Arielle, > > I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more > about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, > blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all > kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by > which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that > we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a > lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create > a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning > and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of > Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. > Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of > applications having nothihng to do with blindness. > > In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us > realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there > really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in > our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy > to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the > unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the > sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has > everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted > (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we > represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of > the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and > think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them > on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of > control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird > ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in > control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than > we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who > remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question > everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the > value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would > not learn nearly as much as we have. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > Original message: >> Hi all, > >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? > >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. > >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 28 05:26:38 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:26:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com><005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com><1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com><48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> <8F24D178-A332-47E8-8525-9EE9DD154B15@gmail.com> Message-ID: Umm, I didn't quite understand that message. You don't think so about what? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster Don't think so. On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream > technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more > compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start > up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream > technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just > out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces > AgreementwithTicketmaster > > > Mike: > Completely agree. > > And, on the question of note takers having better processors… > if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought > that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and > other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, > and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real > market demand. > > I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance > looking at it from a business point of view. > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > >> Hi, chris. >> >> I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and >> some >> other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with >> respect >> and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is >> internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we >> expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. >> >> I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. >> Yes, >> they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille >> display. >> But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart >> devices -- >> PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far >> less >> expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; >> others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their >> smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why >> should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say >> that >> our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to >> afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient >> reason >> to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. >> There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a >> personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my >> view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to >> a >> request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before >> we >> ask for such differential treatment. >> >> On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that >> government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by >> both >> fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart >> phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be >> maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. >> So >> many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web >> accessibility. >> >> I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But >> one >> of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is >> impossible. >> >> This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether >> note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the >> blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these >> manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain >> that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case >> but >> it's something to think about. >> >> Mike Freeman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces >> Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> Hi, all. >> >> I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that >> NFB >> has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's >> Web >> site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, >> I've >> noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen >> reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular >> form >> of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want >> NFB >> to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using >> electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using >> screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to >> the >> BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his >> Braille-Note >> for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a >> laptop >> yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that >> the >> NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web >> sites >> accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, >> was >> totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site >> accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to >> take >> Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that >> we >> were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris >> Danielsen >> Linda Bandov Pazin >> >> Director of Public >> Relations >> Live Nation Entertainment >> >> National Federation of the >> Blind (310) >> 867-7000 >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension >> 2330 >> lindabandov at livenation.com >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster >> >> >> >> >> >> Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind >> Users >> >> >> >> Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of >> the >> Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by >> blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with >> Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the >> world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully >> accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will >> make >> its website (www.ticketmaster.com) >> fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access >> technology by >> December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on >> the >> computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered >> primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular >> ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. >> Ticketmaster >> customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and >> services, >> including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its >> website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that >> Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal >> access >> to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to >> working with the company to achieve that goal. The National >> Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until >> the >> blind have equal access to the full range of products and >> services >> available to the public through the Internet and other >> information >> technologies." >> >> >> >> "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to >> participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best >> possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of >> Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that >> they >> can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for >> their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are >> committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website >> so >> that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." >> >> >> >> Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a >> comprehensive >> accessibility program that will include the development of an >> accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of >> both >> an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. >> >> >> >> Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials >> of >> the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the >> Ticketmaster >> services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will >> submit >> its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web >> Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and >> applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind >> can >> be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification >> program >> continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they >> remain >> compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains >> accessible, >> its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If >> accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind >> will >> work with the site developers to remedy them. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is the largest and most influential membership organization of >> blind >> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's >> lives >> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >> the >> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >> in >> the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> >> >> About Live Nation Entertainment >> >> Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live >> entertainment >> and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: >> Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation >> Concerts, >> Front Line Management Group and Live Nation >> Network. Ticketmaster.com is the >> global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five >> eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. >> Live >> Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than >> 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist >> management company, representing over 250 artists. These >> businesses >> power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment >> marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into >> the >> 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its >> live >> event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit >> www.livenation.com/investors >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 05:29:53 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 01:29:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <4FAF5F2DF9244742A5B8D7391F3F06CA@stanford.edu> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <4FAF5F2DF9244742A5B8D7391F3F06CA@stanford.edu> Message-ID: True... Making a website compatible with a Braillenote is a nightmare... A couple of years ago I tried to tweak a Drupal installation to make it happen, because somebody needed it. I don't have anything against the braillenote, but as Nicole said, it simply doesn't support a bunch of web features which are generally used by developers to make sites accessible... On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I would also like to add that designing a website that is 100% compatible with a BrailleNote can be rather tricky. Don't quote me on this, but I think that the BrailleNote supports even fewer web features than smart phones. Often, small changes can be made to make websites compatible with screen readers, but compatibility with the BrailleNote would mean almost complete reconstruction. Please do not take this to mean that I do not think that websites should be compatible with the BrailleNote. I am just trying to explain why things are the way that are. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster > > >> Hi, chris. >> >> I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some >> other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect >> and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is >> internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we >> expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. >> >> I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, >> they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. >> But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- >> PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less >> expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; >> others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their >> smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why >> should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that >> our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to >> afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason >> to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. >> There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a >> personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my >> view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a >> request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we >> ask for such differential treatment. >> >> On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that >> government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both >> fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart >> phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be >> maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So >> many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. >> >> I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one >> of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is >> impossible. >> >> This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether >> note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the >> blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these >> manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain >> that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but >> it's something to think about. >> >> Mike Freeman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >> david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> Hi, all. >> >> I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB >> has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web >> site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've >> noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen >> reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form >> of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB >> to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using >> electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using >> screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the >> BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note >> for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop >> yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the >> NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites >> accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was >> totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site >> accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take >> Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we >> were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >> withTicketmaster >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris >> Danielsen >> Linda Bandov Pazin >> >> Director of Public >> Relations >> Live Nation Entertainment >> >> National Federation of the >> Blind (310) >> 867-7000 >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension >> 2330 >> lindabandov at livenation.com >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster >> >> >> >> >> >> Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users >> >> >> >> Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of >> the >> Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by >> blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with >> Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the >> world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully >> accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will >> make >> its website (www.ticketmaster.com) >> fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access >> technology by >> December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on >> the >> computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered >> primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular >> ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. >> Ticketmaster >> customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and >> services, >> including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its >> website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that >> Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal >> access >> to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to >> working with the company to achieve that goal. The National >> Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until >> the >> blind have equal access to the full range of products and >> services >> available to the public through the Internet and other >> information >> technologies." >> >> >> >> "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to >> participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best >> possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of >> Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that >> they >> can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for >> their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are >> committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website >> so >> that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." >> >> >> >> Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a >> comprehensive >> accessibility program that will include the development of an >> accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of >> both >> an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. >> >> >> >> Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials >> of >> the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the >> Ticketmaster >> services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will >> submit >> its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web >> Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and >> applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind >> can >> be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification >> program >> continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they >> remain >> compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains >> accessible, >> its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If >> accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind >> will >> work with the site developers to remedy them. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> is the largest and most influential membership organization of >> blind >> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's >> lives >> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >> the >> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >> in >> the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> >> >> About Live Nation Entertainment >> >> Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live >> entertainment >> and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: >> Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation >> Concerts, >> Front Line Management Group and Live Nation >> Network. Ticketmaster.com is the >> global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five >> eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. >> Live >> Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than >> 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist >> management company, representing over 250 artists. These >> businesses >> power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment >> marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into >> the >> 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its >> live >> event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit >> www.livenation.com/investors >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 05:34:34 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 01:34:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <64E76ABDC93D4EB9AB4691580648F6DD@stanford.edu> References: <20110428025659.27655.60473@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> <009c01cc0557$dd0863f0$97192bd0$@panix.com> <64E76ABDC93D4EB9AB4691580648F6DD@stanford.edu> Message-ID: This is scary... I was about to post a message saying the same thing! I know that I don't judge people by their appearances, but sometimes I find myself unconsciously judging people by their voice. I think this can be even worse, because if appearances already tell you very little about a person, their voice is going to tell you just as little or perhaps even less. On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot judge people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not all of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a person looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they just >> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness caused >> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >> future. >> >> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does this >> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". >> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness causes >> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see >> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. >> >> Mike >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> Arielle, >> >> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. >> >> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >> not learn nearly as much as we have. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> Hi all, >> >>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>> world as a whole? >> >>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>> to accomplish life tasks? >>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>> could fully function without light. >> >>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >>> Arielle >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 28 08:04:43 2011 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 01:04:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Top Tech Tidbits for Thursday, April 28, 2011 - Volume 303 Message-ID: Top Tech Tidbits E-News Header. Includes Top Tech Tidbits Logo with Tagline that reads The Weeks News in Adaptive Technology. Beside it are the words Distributed by Flying Blind, LLC, and the Flying Blind, LLC Logo. Top Tech Tidbits - Volume 303 The Week's News in Adaptive Technology Distributed by Flying Blind, LLC http://www.flying-blind.com/ To make certain you receive each Volume of Top Tech Tidbits, please add enews at flying-blind.com to your address book. If you experience any problems reading this Newsletter, you can access this Volume of Top Tech Tidbits on the web at: http://www.flying-blind.com/tidbits2011/04282011/index.html This Issue's Featured Advertisement: Low-Cost Portable Refreshable Braille Is Here Photo of the BraillePen and BraillePen 12 Looking for a low-cost, Braille input / output device for your iPod, iPad, or iPhone? BraillePen12 and BraillePen Slim give you two affordable state-of -the-art solutions for using refreshable Braille to portably and efficiently access the applications on these, and many other mainstream devices. For more information email braillepen at flying-blind.com or call +1 (216) 381-8107. Greetings! 1) I have recorded a podcast about my life in Costa Rica to date. It covers a variety of topics including obscure ones like the radio dial in this remote part of the country. I plan to submit it to Blind Cool tech, but until then, you can grab it here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2285317/costa%20rica.mp3 2) You can learn about The Global Voice, the innovative Internet station that seeks to bring the blind and sighted together, on Tek Talk for GMT Tuesday, 4 May at 00:00. http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2 3) Here are some of the latest updates on the gizmo site: Free Computer & Internet Books Online http://www.techsupportalert.com/free-books-computer Free Children's Books Online http://www.techsupportalert.com/free-books-children Best Free Media Player http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-windows-media-player-replacement.h tm Best Free Online TV Viewer http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-online-tv-viewer.htm Best Free File Archiver/Zip Utility http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-file-archiver-zip-utility.htm Best Free Audio / Video Format Conversion Program http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-audio-video-format-conversion-prog ram.htm Best Free Firewall http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-firewall.htm 4) Thanks to the team at BlindBargains, we learn about Convert Files, a straightforward and effective site for converting a multitude of document, presentation and media files into your desired format. You can, for instance, convert YouTube videos to mp3 or pdf documents to .doc among many others. http://www.convertfiles.com/ 5) Each week, Nancy and Pete Torpey share their life experiences and information they have gathered over the years living with vision loss - from the everyday to the high tech, on a half-hour program called viewpoints. Both have Ph.D.'s in physics; one is sighted, the other blind. They love travel and music. http://wxxi.org/reachout/viewpoints.html 6) In Serotalk podcast 66, the team discusses their usual broad array of topics that is impossible to synopsize in one or two sentences. http://serotalk.com/podcasts/SeroTalk066.mp3 7) In Serotalk Tech Chat 98, Users Share Their Favorite Windows Software http://serotalk.com/podcasts/TechChat098.mp3 8) Blind Software offers a free version of their calendar/ planner http://blindsoftware.com/ 9) The EASI free webinar on 14 June will feature Sheryl Burgstahler reporting on the book she edited on universal design and online learning http://easi.cc/entrance.htm 10) Public Beta version 2.5 of the Save as DAISY plug-in for Microsoft Word now supports Word 2010. http://www.daisy.org/project/save-as-daisy-microsoft-word-add-in For questions and comments regarding Tidbits, please e-mail Dean Martineau at dean at topdotenterprises.com. Dean Martineau provides adaptive technology training by phone, online, and in person, with flexible arrangements, and at affordable prices. Would you like to receive text-only versions of the Top Tech Tidbits and Adaptech Insider Newsletters? If so, find the link at the bottom of each Newsletter titled "Update Profile/E-Mail Address", and check this newly-available option. Feel free to forward individual Tidbits, or the entire tidbits issue, to interested people (but make sure they don't already receive it; a lot do!) When doing this, please have the courtesy to cite your source, perhaps directing them to the Tidbits archive (see below.) Tidbits is intentionally concise, and we know a lot of people may not understand some items because little explanation is given. If a particular Tidbit brings up a question in your mind, feel free to ask, and I will try to answer as time and knowledge permit. Visit the Tidbits archive at http://www.flying-blind.com/tidbits2011.html where you can grab back issues. All that welcome information for future issues can come to me at dean at topdotenterprises.com. You can subscribe to Top Tech Tidbits on the Flying Blind, LLC Website at: http://www.flying-blind.com . Here you will find an accessibly friendly and secure form into which you can enter your email address, click submit, and begin receiving Tidbits weekly. It's that easy. | Flying Blind, LLC | 955 Pembrook Road | Cleveland Heights, Ohio 44121 | Forward This Newsletter This email was sent to lawnmower84 at hotmail.com by enews at flying-blind.com | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Flying Blind, LLC | 955 Pembrook Road | Cleveland Heights | OH | 44121 _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter . SPAMfighter has removed 762 of my spam emails to date. Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 14:19:04 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:19:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted Message-ID: <007c01cc05af$3b7300b0$b2590210$@com> What qualifies as “harm?” There are certainly plenty of negatives associated with being blind; many of them borne of societal prejudices, and misunderstandings, as well as the world’s being structured for the sighted. However, I would contend that there is a list of negatives inherent to blindness. This doesn’t mean that blindness is more than a characteristic. It also doesn’t mean that I am unhappy with who I am. But all characteristics bring along with them certain positives and negatives, and blindness is no different in that regard. Not all characteristics are created equal, and blindness surely has more implications on one’s life than the color of one’s hair or eyes. If this were not the case, we wouldn’t have an NFB. I think Mike is right on with thinking that there is no reason to preserve blindness in our world. If blindness could be eradicated, I would view that as a positive, not because blind people are inferior people, but because blindness is, to my mind, a net negative. If I could become sighted by means of a procedure or medicine that was proven to work and be free of side effects, and do so without losing anything of serious value in my life, I don’t think there would be a lot to think about. As somebody pointed out, I would still have all the nonvisual ways of doing things at my disposal. Becoming sighted, and I mean here obtaining functional usable vision, not simply having my eyes work but having my brain have no idea how to process the information, would do nothing but make my life easier. It would also afford me the ability to enjoy aesthetic beauty. The inability to see the sunset, a great work of art, or a lover’s face, while seemingly cliché, are certainly inherently valuable parts of the human experience. Before anybody wants to argue that those things are just incidental and not really important, imagine that you were never able to hear music; that The best you could do was to have describe to you how wonderful the tone of the saxophone or how rich the chords in a piece. Would you not be missing out on something fundamentally good in the human experience. I think you would. Similarly, I think that we, as blind people, miss out on some stuff. I don’t think I am breaking news here, but I do run across those who will not cede this point. I think that a key part of understanding blindness as a characteristic is understanding that something’s being a characteristic doesn’t mean that it doesn’t matter or have implications on one’s life. Would my life, all else being equal, be easier, and maybe better, if I were sighted? I think so. It would also be better if I were taller, better looking, or more patient. Similarly, my life would be worse if I were less intelligent or didn’t have a sense of humor. Let me stress, I am comfortable in my own skin. I am happy with the person that I am. Blindness is just part of who I am, and does not define me. I don’t think it is inconsistent, and I think it is probably healthy, to be able to recognize the ways in which blindness affects one’s life, while at the same time not letting one’s life or life prospects be dictated by blindness. I hope this makes some sense. Take care, Sean From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 14:57:53 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:57:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster In-Reply-To: References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com><005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com><1C8BA281-9168-4927-A8DB-322BC91E71F8@gmail.com><48C2E7672C8241569BC7CDFD4719D80B@stanford.edu> <8F24D178-A332-47E8-8525-9EE9DD154B15@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BA6768B-5F87-4850-884D-3309D7F5944E@gmail.com> Sorry I was replying to your question about translation software for the Mac. Must've replied to the wrong message. (frown) Sorry. On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Umm, I didn't quite understand that message. You don't think so about what? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:51 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster > > > Don't think so. > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster >> >> >> Mike: >> Completely agree. >> >> And, on the question of note takers having better processors… >> if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, >> and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. >> >> I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: >> >>> Hi, chris. >>> >>> I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some >>> other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect >>> and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is >>> internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we >>> expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. >>> >>> I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, >>> they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. >>> But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- >>> PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less >>> expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; >>> others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their >>> smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why >>> should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that >>> our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to >>> afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason >>> to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. >>> There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a >>> personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my >>> view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a >>> request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we >>> ask for such differential treatment. >>> >>> On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that >>> government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both >>> fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart >>> phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be >>> maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So >>> many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. >>> >>> I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one >>> of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is >>> impossible. >>> >>> This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether >>> note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the >>> blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these >>> manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain >>> that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but >>> it's something to think about. >>> >>> Mike Freeman >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; >>> david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >>> withTicketmaster >>> >>> Hi, all. >>> >>> I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB >>> has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web >>> site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've >>> noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen >>> reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form >>> of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB >>> to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using >>> electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using >>> screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the >>> BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note >>> for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop >>> yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the >>> NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites >>> accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was >>> totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site >>> accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take >>> Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we >>> were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews >>> ) >>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement >>> withTicketmaster >>> >>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>> >>> >>> >>> CONTACT: >>> >>> Chris >>> Danielsen >>> Linda Bandov Pazin >>> >>> Director of Public >>> Relations >>> Live Nation Entertainment >>> >>> National Federation of the >>> Blind (310) >>> 867-7000 >>> >>> (410) 659-9314, extension >>> 2330 >>> lindabandov at livenation.com >>> >>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>> >>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> National Federation of the Blind >>> Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users >>> >>> >>> >>> Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of >>> the >>> Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by >>> blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with >>> Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the >>> world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully >>> accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will >>> make >>> its website (www.ticketmaster.com) >>> fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access >>> technology by >>> December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on >>> the >>> computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the >>> Blind, >>> said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered >>> primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular >>> ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. >>> Ticketmaster >>> customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and >>> services, >>> including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its >>> website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that >>> Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal >>> access >>> to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to >>> working with the company to achieve that goal. The National >>> Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until >>> the >>> blind have equal access to the full range of products and >>> services >>> available to the public through the Internet and other >>> information >>> technologies." >>> >>> >>> >>> "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to >>> participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best >>> possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of >>> Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the >>> Blind >>> is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that >>> they >>> can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for >>> their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are >>> committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website >>> so >>> that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." >>> >>> >>> >>> Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a >>> comprehensive >>> accessibility program that will include the development of an >>> accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of >>> both >>> an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. >>> >>> >>> >>> Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials >>> of >>> the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the >>> Ticketmaster >>> services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will >>> submit >>> its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web >>> Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and >>> applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind >>> can >>> be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification >>> program >>> continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they >>> remain >>> compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains >>> accessible, >>> its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If >>> accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind >>> will >>> work with the site developers to remedy them. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ### >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> About the National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the >>> Blind >>> is the largest and most influential membership organization of >>> blind >>> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's >>> lives >>> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >>> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >>> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >>> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >>> the >>> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >>> in >>> the United States for the blind led by the blind. >>> >>> >>> >>> About Live Nation Entertainment >>> >>> Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live >>> entertainment >>> and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: >>> Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation >>> Concerts, >>> Front Line Management Group and Live Nation >>> Network. Ticketmaster.com is the >>> global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five >>> eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. >>> Live >>> Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than >>> 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist >>> management company, representing over 250 artists. These >>> businesses >>> power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment >>> marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into >>> the >>> 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its >>> live >>> event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit >>> www.livenation.com/investors >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 15:12:04 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:12:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110428025659.27655.60473@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> <009c01cc0557$dd0863f0$97192bd0$@panix.com> <64E76ABDC93D4EB9AB4691580648F6DD@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <7A275DDC-B54A-465A-97A8-362537814BB2@panix.com> Right on! Blindness is no protection against misjudgments or prejudice. Mike Freeman sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2011, at 22:34, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > This is scary... I was about to post a message saying the same thing! > I know that I don't judge people by their appearances, but sometimes I find myself unconsciously judging people by their voice. I think this can be even worse, because if appearances already tell you very little about a person, their voice is going to tell you just as little or perhaps even less. > On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot judge people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not all of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a person looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> >>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they just >>> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness caused >>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >>> future. >>> >>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >>> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does this >>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". >>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness causes >>> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see >>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Jedi >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >>> >>> Arielle, >>> >>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >>> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. >>> >>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >>> not learn nearly as much as we have. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Hi all, >>> >>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>>> world as a whole? >>> >>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>>> to accomplish life tasks? >>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>>> could fully function without light. >>> >>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >>> >>>> Arielle >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Apr 28 15:12:09 2011 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:12:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> Message-ID: <009a01cc05b6$a542d8b0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Mike and everyone, Having text-only Web sites also promotes a cyber version of separate but equal where the blind are concerned. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster Hi, chris. I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we ask for such differential treatment. On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is impossible. This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but it's something to think about. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster Hi, all. I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews ) To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Linda Bandov Pazin Director of Public Relations Live Nation Entertainment National Federation of the Blind (310) 867-7000 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 lindabandov at livenation.com (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will make its website (www.ticketmaster.com) fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access technology by December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. Ticketmaster customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and services, including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal access to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to working with the company to achieve that goal. The National Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until the blind have equal access to the full range of products and services available to the public through the Internet and other information technologies." "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the Blind is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that they can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website so that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a comprehensive accessibility program that will include the development of an accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of both an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials of the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the Ticketmaster services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will submit its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind can be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification program continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they remain compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains accessible, its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind will work with the site developers to remedy them. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. About Live Nation Entertainment Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live entertainment and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation Concerts, Front Line Management Group and Live Nation Network. Ticketmaster.com is the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. Live Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist management company, representing over 250 artists. These businesses power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into the 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its live event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit www.livenation.com/investors _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 15:24:24 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:24:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement withTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <009a01cc05b6$a542d8b0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <4db895a5.8735e50a.21f2.28bc@mx.google.com> <005d01cc0548$69451120$3bcf3360$@panix.com> <009a01cc05b6$a542d8b0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Right on it. On Apr 28, 2011, at 11:12 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Mike and everyone, > > Having text-only Web sites also promotes a cyber version of separate but > equal where the blind are concerned. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreement > withTicketmaster > > > Hi, chris. > > I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some > other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect > and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is > internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we > expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. > > I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, > they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. > But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- > PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less > expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; > others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their > smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why > should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that > our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to > afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason > to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. > There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a > personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my > view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a > request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we > ask for such differential treatment. > > On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that > government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both > fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart > phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be > maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So > many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. > > I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one > of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is > impossible. > > This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether > note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the > blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these > manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain > that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but > it's something to think about. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > Hi, all. > > I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB > has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web > site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've > noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen > reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form > of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB > to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using > electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using > screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the > BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note > for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop > yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the > NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites > accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was > totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site > accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take > Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we > were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris > Danielsen > Linda Bandov Pazin > > Director of Public > Relations > Live Nation Entertainment > > National Federation of the > Blind (310) > 867-7000 > > (410) 659-9314, extension > 2330 > lindabandov at livenation.com > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind > Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster > > > > > > Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of > the > Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by > blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with > Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the > world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully > accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will > make > its website (www.ticketmaster.com) > fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access > technology by > December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on > the > computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the > Blind, > said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered > primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular > ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. > Ticketmaster > customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and > services, > including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its > website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that > Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal > access > to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to > working with the company to achieve that goal. The National > Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until > the > blind have equal access to the full range of products and > services > available to the public through the Internet and other > information > technologies." > > > > "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to > participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best > possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of > Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the > Blind > is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that > they > can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for > their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are > committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website > so > that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." > > > > Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a > comprehensive > accessibility program that will include the development of an > accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of > both > an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. > > > > Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials > of > the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the > Ticketmaster > services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will > submit > its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web > Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and > applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind > can > be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification > program > continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they > remain > compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains > accessible, > its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If > accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind > will > work with the site developers to remedy them. > > > > > > ### > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the > Blind > is the largest and most influential membership organization of > blind > people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's > lives > through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs > encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading > force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's > blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of > the > Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center > in > the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > About Live Nation Entertainment > > Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live > entertainment > and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: > Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation > Concerts, > Front Line Management Group and Live Nation > Network. Ticketmaster.com is the > global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five > eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. > Live > Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than > 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist > management company, representing over 250 artists. These > businesses > power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment > marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into > the > 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its > live > event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit > www.livenation.com/investors > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 17:08:37 2011 From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:08:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Justification letter concerning ONM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7B118C59075745BC958C4332FDD25B7D@OwnerPC> It is the job of your rehab counselor to make sure you are an independent blind person. They can not deny you orientation and mobility as that is a big component to being independent. Though counselors have been known to deny things it is rong for them to deny. So in answer to your question they are not suppose to deny you that but they might. If they do go above their head to their boss and so on untill you get what you need. -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Justification letter concerning ONM Can a rehab councilor deny you orientation and mobility, or can they require you to submit a justification letter explaining why you need orientation and mobility training? RJ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Apr 28 17:50:57 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:50:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Justification letter concerning ONM In-Reply-To: <7B118C59075745BC958C4332FDD25B7D@OwnerPC> References: <7B118C59075745BC958C4332FDD25B7D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <8C8D078AD53547E5ACE892D02E4B1AA5@OwnerPC> Hi Andy and all, Yes while their job is to provide you services to become an independent blind person, actually they can deny services. If they deem and have evidence the client cannot benefit from the service, that is grounds for denial. Rj, If I were you, I'd write the justification letter. What O&M do you need? Also, if you have spatial issues as I do, you should outline how O&M can benefit you and what strageties you may use to compensate for spatial deficits. I have those issues so I need more repetition of routes; I also need more concrete instructions and it helps to have written directions or a map. Remember from the VR standpoint, they have limited resources and funding. They want to ensure the services you seek are in their best interest. If they are contracting with the lighthouse for O&M, its expensive and they pay by the hour. Of course I think you could use some O&M, but just saying I can see why they question it or want to make you justify it now a days. Do you know if they are contracting with the lighthouse or are you just being refered there? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Andi Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Justification letter concerning ONM It is the job of your rehab counselor to make sure you are an independent blind person. They can not deny you orientation and mobility as that is a big component to being independent. Though counselors have been known to deny things it is rong for them to deny. So in answer to your question they are not suppose to deny you that but they might. If they do go above their head to their boss and so on untill you get what you need. -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 2:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Justification letter concerning ONM Can a rehab councilor deny you orientation and mobility, or can they require you to submit a justification letter explaining why you need orientation and mobility training? RJ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 20:03:59 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:03:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> Hi, Arielle and all. What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion that brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is generally indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been asked many times, "If it were ever possible for you to surgically regain your sight, would you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted people who ask that question, my answer is "No." See, I believe that blindness is the most adaptable disability there is. Think about it. If you're deaf, you can't communicate with others except for the small group of people (compared to the number of people in America or the world at that) who know sign language. If you're wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power wheelchair, which is pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push that thing for you everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're mentally handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will probably have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of it. But if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do most everything that sighted people can independently with just a few minor adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned that they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. That's why when people ask me, "What's it like to be blind," I answer, "It's pretty much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long cane and read Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, you can use that line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for thought to you all. What do you think? Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Hi, all. Oh, I didn't know the NABS conference calls were archived in the first place. Forgive me, I'm new to the workings of NABS, lol. Where can I get the archives? I think I'd like to listen to some of the archives before I join one of the calls. Thanks! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Hansen" Message-ID: Please read my newest blog at: http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/04/28/if-i-need-help-ill-ask-for- it/ Today I blog about trying to cross a street, but not being allowed to by a "Good Samaritan." Thanks. Bridgit P From bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net Thu Apr 28 20:42:32 2011 From: bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net (Bernadetta Pracon) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:42:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Chris, First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well thought out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to see a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are thought through and make sense. That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the most adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay for expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do without. I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with a daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to walk. I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point where the thought of a different disability is daunting. So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion that blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident about a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. Cheers Bernadetta -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 20:51:19 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:51:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> References: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Chris: This may surprise you but I'm the same way, and I lost my sight a bit later in life, though with all honesty I can't remember much of what I saw. Though I will not comment on your other points, like I have said earlier, the reason I would NOT choose to become sighted is not because blindness has some benefit, but because I'd have to learn everything all over again should I see. Besides, because of my life with no sight, I feel that I'd still never trust my sight, just because I never grew up with it. Because, it is my belief, that just as the sighted people would not understand how it is to be blind, because they never have been, I think for those of us who are blind either from birth or from very young, we cannot imagine and wouldn't get used to sight, not to mention that our brains are wired differently anyway. FYI: what I mean by the above (and they've proven this scientifically), is that for those of us who are born blind or lose our sight very young--I don't know how that applies to others, our visual cortex is actually rewired for audio, so that it would be scientifically impossible to regain sight, since it means reprograming the brain. Jorge On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi, Arielle and all. > > What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion that brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is generally indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been asked many times, "If it were ever possible for you to surgically regain your sight, would you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted people who ask that question, my answer is "No." See, I believe that blindness is the most adaptable disability there is. Think about it. If you're deaf, you can't communicate with others except for the small group of people (compared to the number of people in America or the world at that) who know sign language. If you're wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power wheelchair, which is pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push that thing for you everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're mentally handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will probably have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of it. But if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do most everything that sighted people can independently with just a few minor adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned that they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. That's why when people ask me, "What's it like to be blind," I answer, "It's pretty much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long cane and read Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, you can use that line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for thought to you all. What do you think? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:08:30 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Hi all, > > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 21:07:49 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:07:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster Message-ID: <4db9d73a.4807dc0a.1605.1c4e@mx.google.com> Yes, I understand that. That's what I thought for a long time. But my TVI has always said that "the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better." You can do a lot of things on your Mac, but some things are just better on a notetaker. That's why I have both. Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ignasi Cambra (by way of David Andrews ) To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement withTicketmaster FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Linda Bandov Pazin Director of Public Relations Live Nation Entertainment National Federation of the Blind (310) 867-7000 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 lindabandov at livenation.com (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will make its website (www.ticketmaster.com) fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access technology by December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. Ticketmaster customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and services, including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal access to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to working with the company to achieve that goal. The National Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until the blind have equal access to the full range of products and services available to the public through the Internet and other information technologies." "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the Blind is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that they can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website so that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a comprehensive accessibility program that will include the development of an accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of both an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials of the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the Ticketmaster services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will submit its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind can be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification program continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they remain compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains accessible, its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind will work with the site developers to remedy them. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. About Live Nation Entertainment Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live entertainment and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation Concerts, Front Line Management Group and Live Nation Network. Ticketmaster.com is the global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. Live Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist management company, representing over 250 artists. These businesses power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into the 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its live event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit www.livenation.com/investors _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert echjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolin i%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam bra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Thu Apr 28 22:00:04 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:00:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster In-Reply-To: <4db9d73a.4807dc0a.1605.1c4e@mx.google.com> References: <4db9d73a.4807dc0a.1605.1c4e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <39C60485-B625-41F5-8F74-3149B1583AAA@panix.com> Just shows you it's a matter of individual opinion. Mike Freeman sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2011, at 14:07, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Yes, I understand that. That's what I thought for a long time. But my TVI has always said that "the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better." You can do a lot of things on your Mac, but some things are just better on a notetaker. That's why I have both. > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 01:21:03 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind AnnouncesAgreementwithTicketmaster > > I would say that eventually, notetakers will only be useful for those who want both Braille output and input. I love reading in Braille, but when working on a computer I simply don't need it. I'm writing from a Macbook air which takes 10 seconds to boot and is completely accessible. Why do I need a notetaker which costs at least two or three times more? I can use this computer to do many things which a notetaker cannot do at all, and it just works! > Oh, and I think there is a translation software for Mac, although I can't remember its name. If you really need it I can try to find it for you... > > IC > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > > Unless accessibility becomes a little more integrated into mainstream technology without errors and Braille displays become a little more compatible and mainstream technology does not take five minutes to start up, I think that the notetakers will always have a niche. Also, mainstream technology does not have support for Braille without added software. Just out of curiosity, are there any translation programs for Mac's? > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces AgreementwithTicketmaster > > > Mike: > Completely agree. > > And, on the question of note takers having better processors… > if its true that that thhinking is spreading wide--that is, the thought that notetakers are becoming obsolete, and since we all know that FS and other companies are 100% for profit, then I don't blame them, > and they aren't gonna be ready to do much more unless they see some real market demand. > > I'm not saying there isn't demand--just that I can understand their stance looking at it from a business point of view. > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Mike Freeman wrote: > > Hi, chris. > > I'm going to express a view that is rather unpopular among students and some > other techies. I feel that if we expect the public to treat us with respect > and not discriminate against us, we must have a philosophy that is > internally consistent so that both we and society at large know what we > expect of society and of ourselves. With that in mind, here is my view. > > I start with the observation that note-takers are, in essence, PDAs. Yes, > they can get rather expensive, especially when they have a braille display. > But they are PDAs nevertheless. Sighted persons also use smart devices -- > PDAs,smart phones and the like -- albeit these devices are usually far less > expensive than are our note-takers. Some websites have a mobile version; > others do not. Hence, the sighted cannot view every website using their > smart phones or PDAs and must use a PC or Mac to view some websites. Why > should we, the blind, expect to be treated differently? Some might say that > our impecuniousness, that is, our lack of income making it difficult to > afford both a note-taker and a laptop or PC/Mac should be sufficient reason > to justify a request for differential/special treatment. I don't buy it. > There are plenty of sighted folks who cannot or choose not to own both a > personal computer and a smart phone or PDA due to lack of means. In my > view, to demand that all websites be accessible by note-takers amounts to a > request for special treatment and we should think *very* carefully before we > ask for such differential treatment. > > On the other hand, I think it *might* be defensible to request that > government websites, at least, have a text-only version accessible by both > fancy computers and mobile devices such as note-takers, PDAs and smart > phones. The problem there is that often this means two websites must be > maintained and this inevitably leads to the sites getting out of sync. So > many of us have resisted this solution to the problem of web accessibility. > > I know it's human nature to want to have our cake and eat it, too. But one > of the strengths of NFB philosophy is that we realize that this is > impossible. > > This is, of course, entirely separate from the question as to whether > note-takers should have more powerful processors. But that's between the > blind and the note-taker manufacturers. And one can't blame these > manufacturers for not going that route when at least some folks maintain > that note-takers will soon be obsolete. I'm not sure this is the case but > it's something to think about. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; > david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > Hi, all. > > I just want to make a few comments. I'm always very glad to know that NFB > has reached an agreement with a private company to make that company's Web > site accessible. My only comment is that in all these press releases, I've > noticed that it has only talked about making sites accessible to screen > reading software, and that's great! Screen readers are the most popular form > of Internet access for the blind, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't want NFB > to overlook the fact that they also need to be accessible to people using > electronic notetakers for their Internet access as well as those using > screen readers. I have both available, so if a site isn't accessible to the > BrailleNote, I'll try JAWS. But a friend of mine only uses his Braille-Note > for Internet access both at school and at home, and hasn't gotten a laptop > yet. What about people like him? Also, it never ceases to amaze me that the > NFB has to go so far as a lawsuit to get companies to make their Web sites > accessible. It sounds to me like the CEO of Live Nation, in that case, was > totally cooperative with the NFB and would be glad to make their site > accessible. But if the CEO was that cooperative, they wouldn't have to take > Live Nation to court. The same with the law school admission site that we > were told about yesterday. What do you think of all this? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Freeh,Jessica" (by way of David Andrews > ) > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:20:44 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Announces Agreement > withTicketmaster > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris > Danielsen > Linda Bandov Pazin > > Director of Public > Relations > Live Nation Entertainment > > National Federation of the > Blind (310) > 867-7000 > > (410) 659-9314, extension > 2330 > lindabandov at livenation.com > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind > Announces Agreement with Ticketmaster > > > > > > Ticketmaster Makes Website Fully Accessible and Fan-Friendly to Blind Users > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (April 26, 2011): The National Federation of > the > Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Internet access by > blind Americans, today announced a cooperative agreement with > Ticketmaster, the global event ticketing leader and one of the > world's top five eCommerce sites, to make its website fully > accessible to the blind. Under the agreement, Ticketmaster will > make > its website (www.ticketmaster.com) > fully accessible to blind users utilizing screen access > technology by > December 31, 2011. Screen access technology converts what is on > the > computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the > Blind, > said: "An increasing number of goods and services are now offered > primarily over the Internet and Ticketmaster's extremely popular > ticket sales website is a prime example of this trend. > Ticketmaster > customers gain many of the company's valuable benefits and > services, > including access to special pre-sales and promotions, through its > website. The National Federation of the Blind is pleased that > Ticketmaster has recognized the importance of providing equal > access > to its website for its blind customers, and we look forward to > working with the company to achieve that goal. The National > Federation of the Blind will continue to work tirelessly until > the > blind have equal access to the full range of products and > services > available to the public through the Internet and other > information > technologies." > > > > "For Ticketmaster, the future is all about the fans. We want to > participate wherever and however so that fans can have the best > possible fan-friendly experience," said Nathan Hubbard, CEO of > Ticketmaster. "Partnering with the National Federation of the > Blind > is enabling us to address the needs of our blind fans, so that > they > can have the same positive experience when purchasing tickets for > their favorite artists' performance or any live event. We are > committed to working with NFB to enhance the Ticketmaster website > so > that it's accessible and usable by all of our fans out there." > > > > Pursuant to the agreement, Ticketmaster will develop a > comprehensive > accessibility program that will include the development of an > accessibility guidelines manual, as well as the appointment of > both > an accessibility coordinator and an accessibility committee. > > > > Additionally, Ticketmaster will continue to work with officials > of > the National Federation of the Blind to ensure that the > Ticketmaster > services remain accessible to the blind. Ticketmaster will > submit > its website to the NFB Nonvisual Accessibility (NFB-NVA) Web > Certification program, a rigorous procedure by which websites and > applications that have made efforts to be accessible to the blind > can > be identified and recognized. The NFB-NVA Web Certification > program > continuously monitors participating sites to ensure that they > remain > compliant with certification criteria. If a site remains > accessible, > its certification is renewed on an annual or a version basis. If > accessibility issues arise, the National Federation of the Blind > will > work with the site developers to remedy them. > > > > > > ### > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the > Blind > is the largest and most influential membership organization of > blind > people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's > lives > through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs > encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading > force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's > blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of > the > Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center > in > the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > About Live Nation Entertainment > > Live Nation Entertainment is the world's leading live > entertainment > and eCommerce company, comprised of four market leaders: > Ticketmaster.com, Live Nation > Concerts, > Front Line Management Group and Live Nation > Network. Ticketmaster.com is the > global event ticketing leader and one of the world's top five > eCommerce sites, with over 26 million monthly unique visitors. > Live > Nation Concerts produces over 20,000 shows annually for more than > 2,000 artists globally. Front Line is the world's top artist > management company, representing over 250 artists. These > businesses > power Live Nation Network, the leading provider of entertainment > marketing solutions, enabling over 800 advertisers to tap into > the > 200 million consumers Live Nation delivers annually through its > live > event and digital platforms. For additional information, visit > www.livenation.com/investors > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p > anix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert > echjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolin > i%40wavecable.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 22:52:07 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:52:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to put out a thought here, which is this. I have always wondered what it would be like to see, even though I myself have been blind from birth. Similarly, as I am in a wheelchair myself, (although I can walk in a walker) I have always wondered what it'd be like to walk without needing any support at all. I can also agree with the statement that technology is quite expensive for us blind people. I know this because I will be getting my BrailleNote Apex monday :) and it's six thousand bucks. I guess my question is: Have people ever felt the way I felt either about seeing, (in my case) walking, or both? Josh On 4/28/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: > Chris, > First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well thought > out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to see > a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless of > whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are > thought through and make sense. > > That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the most > adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. > I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of > us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think > about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign > language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And > likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is > just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. > Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is > as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay for > expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you > consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do > without. > I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are > tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with a > daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted > people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the > dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to walk. > I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us > that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. > My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with > their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point > where the thought of a different disability is daunting. > So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion that > blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's > good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident about > a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some > other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, > the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. > > Cheers > > Bernadetta > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- The Ever-curious Master Yoda Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 23:34:46 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:34:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: I can actually see quite a bit, but I would still love to know what it's like to have full vision. Even with the vision I have, it's something I can't imagine, but I wouldn't turn down a minimal-risk opportunity to experience it for the sake of preserving some characteristic of myself that isn't really a significant part of my identity anyway. I wouldn't lose any of the skills I acquired through blindness because I can always close my eyes if I find that full vision some how prevents me from using non-visual skills when I want or need to. It is my understanding based on my own research and study of neuroscience that our brains are plastic enough to adapt to sight as readily as we can adapt to blindness. Recent studies have demonstrated that the "re-training" time after one regains sight is not that long, and while the visual cortex of a blind person does re-wire itself to perform other functions (not always auditory, more often spatial), neural plasticity is rather remarkable in that the brain can re-wire itself again. If you've been sighted from birth, and go blind in adulthood, your visual cortex still re-wires itself to compensate. And if you were blind al lyour life and go sighted in adulthood, the brain would likewise re-wire itself and adapt to the new sensory input. So as long as no one is being hurt in the process and the risk is minimal or nonexistant, I'm all for a orld where blindness never HAS to occur. In such a world, if you wanted to become or remain blind to preserve the virtues of being blind, why not wear a blindfold or opaque contact lenses? Some might think that having sight and then choosing blindness is silly, but is it really any sillier than refusing sight in a circumstance where you can have it, benefit from it, and do so without risk? There are people who, for some reason, want to be disabled. It isn't unheard of at all, though it is considered deviant. Is it really any more deviant than this? On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:52 PM, josh gregory wrote: > Hi, > I'd like to put out a thought here, which is this. I have always > wondered what it would be like to see, even though I myself have been > blind from birth. Similarly, as I am in a wheelchair myself, (although > I can walk in a walker) I have always wondered what it'd be like to > walk without needing any support at all. > I can also agree with the statement that technology is quite > expensive for us blind people. I know this because I will be getting > my BrailleNote Apex monday :) and it's six thousand bucks. > I guess my question is: Have people ever felt the way I felt either > about seeing, (in my case) walking, or both? > Josh > > On 4/28/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: > > Chris, > > First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well thought > > out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to see > > a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless of > > whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are > > thought through and make sense. > > > > That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the most > > adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. > > I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of > > us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think > > about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign > > language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And > > likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is > > just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. > > Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is > > as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay for > > expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you > > consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do > > without. > > I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are > > tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with a > > daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted > > people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the > > dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to > walk. > > I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us > > that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. > > My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with > > their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point > > where the thought of a different disability is daunting. > > So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion that > > blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's > > good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident about > > a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some > > other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, > > the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. > > > > Cheers > > > > Bernadetta > > > > -- > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > The Ever-curious Master Yoda > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 23:57:09 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:57:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: I find it interesting that some people actually *want* to become disabled. Why is this? But, it always goes back to what I always say: Be grateful for what you have, because someday, when you least expect it, you might not have it. Josh On 4/28/11, Jamie Principato wrote: > I can actually see quite a bit, but I would still love to know what it's > like to have full vision. Even with the vision I have, it's something I > can't imagine, but I wouldn't turn down a minimal-risk opportunity to > experience it for the sake of preserving some characteristic of myself that > isn't really a significant part of my identity anyway. I wouldn't lose any > of the skills I acquired through blindness because I can always close my > eyes if I find that full vision some how prevents me from using non-visual > skills when I want or need to. It is my understanding based on my own > research and study of neuroscience that our brains are plastic enough to > adapt to sight as readily as we can adapt to blindness. Recent studies have > demonstrated that the "re-training" time after one regains sight is not that > long, and while the visual cortex of a blind person does re-wire itself to > perform other functions (not always auditory, more often spatial), neural > plasticity is rather remarkable in that the brain can re-wire itself again. > If you've been sighted from birth, and go blind in adulthood, your visual > cortex still re-wires itself to compensate. And if you were blind al lyour > life and go sighted in adulthood, the brain would likewise re-wire itself > and adapt to the new sensory input. So as long as no one is being hurt in > the process and the risk is minimal or nonexistant, I'm all for a orld where > blindness never HAS to occur. > > In such a world, if you wanted to become or remain blind to preserve the > virtues of being blind, why not wear a blindfold or opaque contact lenses? > Some might think that having sight and then choosing blindness is silly, but > is it really any sillier than refusing sight in a circumstance where you can > have it, benefit from it, and do so without risk? There are people who, for > some reason, want to be disabled. It isn't unheard of at all, though it is > considered deviant. Is it really any more deviant than this? > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:52 PM, josh gregory wrote: > >> Hi, >> I'd like to put out a thought here, which is this. I have always >> wondered what it would be like to see, even though I myself have been >> blind from birth. Similarly, as I am in a wheelchair myself, (although >> I can walk in a walker) I have always wondered what it'd be like to >> walk without needing any support at all. >> I can also agree with the statement that technology is quite >> expensive for us blind people. I know this because I will be getting >> my BrailleNote Apex monday :) and it's six thousand bucks. >> I guess my question is: Have people ever felt the way I felt either >> about seeing, (in my case) walking, or both? >> Josh >> >> On 4/28/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >> > Chris, >> > First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well thought >> > out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to see >> > a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless of >> > whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are >> > thought through and make sense. >> > >> > That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the most >> > adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. >> > I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of >> > us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think >> > about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign >> > language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And >> > likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is >> > just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. >> > Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is >> > as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay for >> > expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you >> > consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do >> > without. >> > I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are >> > tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with a >> > daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted >> > people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the >> > dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to >> walk. >> > I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us >> > that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. >> > My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with >> > their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point >> > where the thought of a different disability is daunting. >> > So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion that >> > blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's >> > good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident about >> > a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some >> > other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, >> > the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. >> > >> > Cheers >> > >> > Bernadetta >> > >> > -- >> > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> -- >> The Ever-curious Master Yoda >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- The Ever-curious Master Yoda Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu Apr 28 23:58:30 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:58:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. References: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <749AF83FDBD54158B6A83A44C4885153@stanford.edu> A word of caution: Unless you have worked with people who have a certain disability, you have that disability yourself, you have researched that disability, or you are in some other way knowledgeable about that disability, it is not a good idea to make assumptions and statements about that disability. People who are deaf can communicate by lip reading and writing things down. Yes, power wheelchairs are more expensive than canes or the initial price of an organization trained guide dog. However, if you did the math and added up the cost of taking care of a dog for ten years or more, it would be more than what a power wheelchair costs. I don't think that the term mentally handicapped is PC. I think that the correct term is developmentally delayed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > Hi, Arielle and all. > > What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion that > brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is generally > indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been asked many times, > "If it were ever possible for you to surgically regain your sight, would > you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted people who ask that question, > my answer is "No." See, I believe that blindness is the most adaptable > disability there is. Think about it. If you're deaf, you can't > communicate with others except for the small group of people (compared to > the number of people in America or the world at that) who know sign > language. If you're wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power > wheelchair, which is pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push > that thing for you everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're > mentally handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will > probably have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of it. But > if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do most > everything that sighted people can independently with just a few minor > adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem > of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of > understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper > training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical > nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a > little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would > want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it > would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think > blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted > world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned > that they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. > That's why when people ask me, "What's it like to be blind," I answer, > "It's pretty much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long > cane and read Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, > you can use that line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for > thought to you all. What do you think? > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:08:30 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Hi all, > > We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our > blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be > reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me > think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: > Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if > blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering > and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? > The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, > eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of > blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the > world as a whole? > > Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society > who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These > specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted > to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of > people who do things differently from having full access to societal > goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less > resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques > to accomplish life tasks? > On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use > different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology > is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision > as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck > the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members > could fully function without light. > > What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of > blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? > There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, > for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 00:06:50 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:06:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: Hi again, Hmmm... maybe for the experience? Could that be why sighted people would want to become disabled? But it's weird because, if that *is* why, I know I'd want to stay perfectly healthy, if I were to become... shall I say... that way. OK, as for if blindness should be removed from the world... I think so. Because everything is based on visualization in today's society, which blind people cannot benefit from at all. On the other hand though, as others have stated, it would be quite difficult to be completely removed. Anyway, This is quite an interesting conversation. Josh On 4/28/11, josh gregory wrote: > I find it interesting that some people actually *want* to become > disabled. Why is this? But, it always goes back to what I always say: > Be grateful for what you have, because someday, when you least expect > it, you might not have it. > Josh > > On 4/28/11, Jamie Principato wrote: >> I can actually see quite a bit, but I would still love to know what it's >> like to have full vision. Even with the vision I have, it's something I >> can't imagine, but I wouldn't turn down a minimal-risk opportunity to >> experience it for the sake of preserving some characteristic of myself >> that >> isn't really a significant part of my identity anyway. I wouldn't lose >> any >> of the skills I acquired through blindness because I can always close my >> eyes if I find that full vision some how prevents me from using >> non-visual >> skills when I want or need to. It is my understanding based on my own >> research and study of neuroscience that our brains are plastic enough to >> adapt to sight as readily as we can adapt to blindness. Recent studies >> have >> demonstrated that the "re-training" time after one regains sight is not >> that >> long, and while the visual cortex of a blind person does re-wire itself >> to >> perform other functions (not always auditory, more often spatial), neural >> plasticity is rather remarkable in that the brain can re-wire itself >> again. >> If you've been sighted from birth, and go blind in adulthood, your visual >> cortex still re-wires itself to compensate. And if you were blind al >> lyour >> life and go sighted in adulthood, the brain would likewise re-wire itself >> and adapt to the new sensory input. So as long as no one is being hurt in >> the process and the risk is minimal or nonexistant, I'm all for a orld >> where >> blindness never HAS to occur. >> >> In such a world, if you wanted to become or remain blind to preserve the >> virtues of being blind, why not wear a blindfold or opaque contact >> lenses? >> Some might think that having sight and then choosing blindness is silly, >> but >> is it really any sillier than refusing sight in a circumstance where you >> can >> have it, benefit from it, and do so without risk? There are people who, >> for >> some reason, want to be disabled. It isn't unheard of at all, though it >> is >> considered deviant. Is it really any more deviant than this? >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:52 PM, josh gregory >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I'd like to put out a thought here, which is this. I have always >>> wondered what it would be like to see, even though I myself have been >>> blind from birth. Similarly, as I am in a wheelchair myself, (although >>> I can walk in a walker) I have always wondered what it'd be like to >>> walk without needing any support at all. >>> I can also agree with the statement that technology is quite >>> expensive for us blind people. I know this because I will be getting >>> my BrailleNote Apex monday :) and it's six thousand bucks. >>> I guess my question is: Have people ever felt the way I felt either >>> about seeing, (in my case) walking, or both? >>> Josh >>> >>> On 4/28/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >>> > Chris, >>> > First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well >>> > thought >>> > out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to >>> > see >>> > a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless >>> > of >>> > whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are >>> > thought through and make sense. >>> > >>> > That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the >>> > most >>> > adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. >>> > I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of >>> > us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think >>> > about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign >>> > language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And >>> > likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is >>> > just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. >>> > Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is >>> > as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay >>> > for >>> > expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you >>> > consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do >>> > without. >>> > I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are >>> > tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with >>> > a >>> > daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted >>> > people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the >>> > dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to >>> walk. >>> > I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us >>> > that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. >>> > My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with >>> > their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point >>> > where the thought of a different disability is daunting. >>> > So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion >>> > that >>> > blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's >>> > good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident >>> > about >>> > a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some >>> > other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, >>> > the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. >>> > >>> > Cheers >>> > >>> > Bernadetta >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Ever-curious Master Yoda >>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > The Ever-curious Master Yoda > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > -- The Ever-curious Master Yoda Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 01:28:40 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:28:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: Ah, but what if it were the other way around, what if the majority were blind and the minority was sighted? What then would happen? Just food for thought. Jorge On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:06 PM, josh gregory wrote: > Hi again, > Hmmm... maybe for the experience? Could that be why sighted people > would want to become disabled? But it's weird because, if that *is* > why, I know I'd want to stay perfectly healthy, if I were to become... > shall I say... that way. OK, as for if blindness should be removed > from the world... I think so. Because everything is based on > visualization in today's society, which blind people cannot benefit > from at all. On the other hand though, as others have stated, it > would be quite difficult to be completely removed. Anyway, This is > quite an interesting conversation. > Josh > > On 4/28/11, josh gregory wrote: >> I find it interesting that some people actually *want* to become >> disabled. Why is this? But, it always goes back to what I always say: >> Be grateful for what you have, because someday, when you least expect >> it, you might not have it. >> Josh >> >> On 4/28/11, Jamie Principato wrote: >>> I can actually see quite a bit, but I would still love to know what it's >>> like to have full vision. Even with the vision I have, it's something I >>> can't imagine, but I wouldn't turn down a minimal-risk opportunity to >>> experience it for the sake of preserving some characteristic of myself >>> that >>> isn't really a significant part of my identity anyway. I wouldn't lose >>> any >>> of the skills I acquired through blindness because I can always close my >>> eyes if I find that full vision some how prevents me from using >>> non-visual >>> skills when I want or need to. It is my understanding based on my own >>> research and study of neuroscience that our brains are plastic enough to >>> adapt to sight as readily as we can adapt to blindness. Recent studies >>> have >>> demonstrated that the "re-training" time after one regains sight is not >>> that >>> long, and while the visual cortex of a blind person does re-wire itself >>> to >>> perform other functions (not always auditory, more often spatial), neural >>> plasticity is rather remarkable in that the brain can re-wire itself >>> again. >>> If you've been sighted from birth, and go blind in adulthood, your visual >>> cortex still re-wires itself to compensate. And if you were blind al >>> lyour >>> life and go sighted in adulthood, the brain would likewise re-wire itself >>> and adapt to the new sensory input. So as long as no one is being hurt in >>> the process and the risk is minimal or nonexistant, I'm all for a orld >>> where >>> blindness never HAS to occur. >>> >>> In such a world, if you wanted to become or remain blind to preserve the >>> virtues of being blind, why not wear a blindfold or opaque contact >>> lenses? >>> Some might think that having sight and then choosing blindness is silly, >>> but >>> is it really any sillier than refusing sight in a circumstance where you >>> can >>> have it, benefit from it, and do so without risk? There are people who, >>> for >>> some reason, want to be disabled. It isn't unheard of at all, though it >>> is >>> considered deviant. Is it really any more deviant than this? >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:52 PM, josh gregory >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> I'd like to put out a thought here, which is this. I have always >>>> wondered what it would be like to see, even though I myself have been >>>> blind from birth. Similarly, as I am in a wheelchair myself, (although >>>> I can walk in a walker) I have always wondered what it'd be like to >>>> walk without needing any support at all. >>>> I can also agree with the statement that technology is quite >>>> expensive for us blind people. I know this because I will be getting >>>> my BrailleNote Apex monday :) and it's six thousand bucks. >>>> I guess my question is: Have people ever felt the way I felt either >>>> about seeing, (in my case) walking, or both? >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> On 4/28/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >>>>> Chris, >>>>> First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well >>>>> thought >>>>> out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to >>>>> see >>>>> a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless >>>>> of >>>>> whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are >>>>> thought through and make sense. >>>>> >>>>> That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the >>>>> most >>>>> adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. >>>>> I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of >>>>> us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think >>>>> about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign >>>>> language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And >>>>> likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is >>>>> just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. >>>>> Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is >>>>> as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay >>>>> for >>>>> expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you >>>>> consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do >>>>> without. >>>>> I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are >>>>> tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with >>>>> a >>>>> daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted >>>>> people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the >>>>> dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to >>>> walk. >>>>> I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us >>>>> that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. >>>>> My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with >>>>> their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point >>>>> where the thought of a different disability is daunting. >>>>> So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion >>>>> that >>>>> blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's >>>>> good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident >>>>> about >>>>> a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some >>>>> other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, >>>>> the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Bernadetta >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Ever-curious Master Yoda >>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> The Ever-curious Master Yoda >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> > > > -- > The Ever-curious Master Yoda > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 29 02:02:54 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 22:02:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll talk to them first before judging them. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot judge > people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. > Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not all > of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a person > looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore > appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >> just >> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >> caused >> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >> future. >> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >> this >> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". >> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness causes >> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see >> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. >> Mike >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> Arielle, >> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. >> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >> not learn nearly as much as we have. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> Hi all, >>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>> world as a whole? >>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>> to accomplish life tasks? >>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>> could fully function without light. >>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >>> Arielle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 29 02:08:37 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 22:08:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays Message-ID: Hi all, I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they have the funds for it. But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the reality of them. I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation and spelling you miss with speech. So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they need maintenance? If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The braille is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! Ashley From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 29 02:36:58 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:36:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <007901cc0616$50e342e0$f2a9c8a0$@panix.com> What's the difference between looking at them and talking to them? Both sight and hearing are fallible. Seems to me even here we are ascribing to sight a mystique it does not merit. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:03 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll talk to them first before judging them. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot judge > people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. > Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not all > of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a person > looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore > appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >> just >> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >> caused >> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >> future. >> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >> this >> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". >> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness causes >> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see >> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. >> Mike >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> Arielle, >> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. >> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >> not learn nearly as much as we have. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> Hi all, >>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>> world as a whole? >>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>> to accomplish life tasks? >>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>> could fully function without light. >>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >>> Arielle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 03:47:33 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:47:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <749AF83FDBD54158B6A83A44C4885153@stanford.edu> References: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> <749AF83FDBD54158B6A83A44C4885153@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I completely agree. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a deaf person told me that they would rather stay deaf than become blind. It depends on what each person is used to, and we are used to being blind so we're OK with it. On Apr 28, 2011, at 7:58 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > A word of caution: Unless you have worked with people who have a certain disability, you have that disability yourself, you have researched that disability, or you are in some other way knowledgeable about that disability, it is not a good idea to make assumptions and statements about that disability. > > People who are deaf can communicate by lip reading and writing things down. > > Yes, power wheelchairs are more expensive than canes or the initial price of an organization trained guide dog. However, if you did the math and added up the cost of taking care of a dog for ten years or more, it would be more than what a power wheelchair costs. > > I don't think that the term mentally handicapped is PC. I think that the correct term is developmentally delayed. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >> Hi, Arielle and all. >> >> What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion that brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is generally indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been asked many times, "If it were ever possible for you to surgically regain your sight, would you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted people who ask that question, my answer is "No." See, I believe that blindness is the most adaptable disability there is. Think about it. If you're deaf, you can't communicate with others except for the small group of people (compared to the number of people in America or the world at that) who know sign language. If you're wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power wheelchair, which is pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push that thing for you everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're mentally handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will probably have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of it. But if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do most everything that sighted people can independently with just a few minor adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned that they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. That's why when people ask me, "What's it like to be blind," I answer, "It's pretty much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long cane and read Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, you can use that line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for thought to you all. What do you think? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:08:30 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> Hi all, >> >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Apr 29 03:55:59 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:55:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays References: Message-ID: What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays > Hi all, > > I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government > organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they > have the funds for it. > But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? > > Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the > reality of them. > I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display > via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation and > spelling you miss with speech. > > So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? > What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is > it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the > touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they > need maintenance? > If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? > Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean > does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If > not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? > > > Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. > > I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The braille > is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! > > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 03:53:48 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:53:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110428204232.23516.45606@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <70E1895D-52F9-48C4-8592-FB433AFD2359@gmail.com> I've also been blind from birth, and I guess I would be curious to know how it feels to be sighted. But in the end, I just think of it in simpler terms: It would allow me to understand many things around me without having to listen for them or to physically interact with them. I've also heard blind people sometimes saying that they would just love to be able to see their significant other or whatever, but for some reason I don't feel that way. I've been dating someone for four years and as much as it would be fun to see her, I don't think that's the primary reason why I would want to become sighted. On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:52 PM, josh gregory wrote: > Hi, > I'd like to put out a thought here, which is this. I have always > wondered what it would be like to see, even though I myself have been > blind from birth. Similarly, as I am in a wheelchair myself, (although > I can walk in a walker) I have always wondered what it'd be like to > walk without needing any support at all. > I can also agree with the statement that technology is quite > expensive for us blind people. I know this because I will be getting > my BrailleNote Apex monday :) and it's six thousand bucks. > I guess my question is: Have people ever felt the way I felt either > about seeing, (in my case) walking, or both? > Josh > > On 4/28/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >> Chris, >> First of all, I'd like to join in applauding you for your well thought >> out, clearly written,and in general great posts. It's refreshing to see >> a seventh-grader this mature and this socially conscious. Regardless of >> whether you're right or wrong, you always send us posts that are >> thought through and make sense. >> >> That being said, I have to disagree with you that blindness is the most >> adaptable disability. Don't worry though--I used to think that myself. >> I've been totally blind since birth too, so it's natural for those of >> us born blind to automatically come to that conclusion. If you think >> about it a little further though, deaf people can communicate via sign >> language. Maybe it's not auditory, but it's effective for them. And >> likewise, sighted people believe that communication via eye contact is >> just as important, perhaps even more so,than auditory communication. >> Also, a person in a wheelchair could argue that a powerchair to him is >> as useful and effective as a cane or a dog is to us. We have to pay for >> expensive equipment as well; Our technology is in the thousands if you >> consider the specialized blindness products that many of us can't do >> without. >> I have a theory: I think we may believe that other disabilities are >> tougher to live with than being blind because we're not familiar with a >> daily life in the shoes of those who have them. Just like sighted >> people are afraid of blindness and can't imagine how we live "in the >> dark"as they tend to say, so we can't imagine being deaf or unable to walk. >> I would bet a lot that a deafperson could easily challenge one of us >> that his or her disability is easier to live with than blindness is. >> My point is, almost everyone is comfortable in their own skin, with >> their own disability, or at least they are comfortable to the point >> where the thought of a different disability is daunting. >> So it's not necessarily accurate for us to jump to the conclusion that >> blindness is the most adaptable disability, but at the same time, it's >> good that you feel that way. I think it's healthy to be confident about >> a disability any of us happen to have, whether it be blindness or some >> other disability, because the more comfortable we are in our own skin, >> the smoother our lives will likely be in that aspect. >> >> Cheers >> >> Bernadetta >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > The Ever-curious Master Yoda > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Apr 29 04:15:09 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:15:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. References: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> <007901cc0616$50e342e0$f2a9c8a0$@panix.com> Message-ID: Yes, you can judge people by their voices, but I think that sighted people judge others by appearance more often than blind people judge people by their voices. For example, a sighted might not talk to someone because the person was wearing shabby clothes. Can you tell that a person is wearing shabby clothes by the voice? Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > What's the difference between looking at them and talking to them? Both > sight and hearing are fallible. Seems to me even here we are ascribing to > sight a mystique it does not merit. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:03 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look > like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other > grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so > has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll > talk to them first before judging them. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Original message: >> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot > judge >> people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. >> Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not >> all >> of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a >> person >> looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore >> appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Freeman" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >>> just >>> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >>> caused >>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >>> future. > >>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >>> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >>> this >>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say >>> "yes". >>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness > causes >>> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't >>> see >>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. > >>> Mike > > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Jedi >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > >>> Arielle, > >>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >>> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. > >>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >>> not learn nearly as much as we have. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Hi all, > >>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>>> world as a whole? > >>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>>> to accomplish life tasks? >>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>>> could fully function without light. > >>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > >>>> Arielle > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net > >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 29 04:19:57 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:19:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> <007901cc0616$50e342e0$f2a9c8a0$@panix.com> Message-ID: <000301cc0624$b3558f60$1a00ae20$@panix.com> Nope; it's the smell that gives 'em away! Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Yes, you can judge people by their voices, but I think that sighted people judge others by appearance more often than blind people judge people by their voices. For example, a sighted might not talk to someone because the person was wearing shabby clothes. Can you tell that a person is wearing shabby clothes by the voice? Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > What's the difference between looking at them and talking to them? Both > sight and hearing are fallible. Seems to me even here we are ascribing to > sight a mystique it does not merit. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:03 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look > like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other > grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so > has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll > talk to them first before judging them. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Original message: >> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot > judge >> people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. >> Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not >> all >> of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a >> person >> looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore >> appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Freeman" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >>> just >>> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >>> caused >>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >>> future. > >>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >>> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >>> this >>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say >>> "yes". >>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness > causes >>> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't >>> see >>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. > >>> Mike > > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Jedi >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > >>> Arielle, > >>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >>> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. > >>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >>> not learn nearly as much as we have. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Hi all, > >>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>>> world as a whole? > >>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>>> to accomplish life tasks? >>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>>> could fully function without light. > >>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > >>>> Arielle > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net > >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 03:56:26 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:56:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you were to regain sight, you can take all the time you need to relearn whatever you want because you can already do things being blind. If anything, you would figure out which things are more efficient to do with sight and which things are better the way you do them right now. I can tell you that I use my computer a lot faster than most sighted people around me, for example. So if I were to become sighted, I would probably keep using the keyboard to operate the computer most of the time... On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Chris: > This may surprise you but I'm the same way, and I lost my sight a bit later in life, though with all honesty I can't remember much of what I saw. > > Though I will not comment on your other points, > like I have said earlier, > the reason I would NOT choose to become sighted is not because blindness has some benefit, > but because I'd have to learn everything all over again should I see. > > Besides, because of my life with no sight, I feel that I'd still never trust my sight, just because I never grew up with it. > Because, it is my belief, that just as the sighted people would not understand how it is to be blind, because they never have been, I think for those of us who are blind either from birth or from very young, > we cannot imagine and wouldn't get used to sight, not to mention that our brains are wired differently anyway. > > FYI: what I mean by the above (and they've proven this scientifically), is that for those of us who are born blind or lose our sight very young--I don't know how that applies to others, > our visual cortex is actually rewired for audio, > so that it would be scientifically impossible to regain sight, since it means reprograming the brain. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all. >> >> What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion that brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is generally indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been asked many times, "If it were ever possible for you to surgically regain your sight, would you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted people who ask that question, my answer is "No." See, I believe that blindness is the most adaptable disability there is. Think about it. If you're deaf, you can't communicate with others except for the small group of people (compared to the number of people in America or the world at that) who know sign language. If you're wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power wheelchair, which is pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push that thing for you everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're mentally handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will probably have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of it. But if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do most everything that sighted people can independently with just a few minor adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned that they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. That's why when people ask me, "What's it like to be blind," I answer, "It's pretty much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long cane and read Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, you can use that line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for thought to you all. What do you think? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:08:30 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> Hi all, >> >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Apr 29 04:27:41 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:27:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. References: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> <007901cc0616$50e342e0$f2a9c8a0$@panix.com> <000301cc0624$b3558f60$1a00ae20$@panix.com> Message-ID: <16084190053849C2B3C664FFE6A2964A@stanford.edu> Oh, forgot about that one. My problem is that I have enough other medical conditions that some of the other senses that would help make up for vision, such as smell, don't work to their full capacity or at all. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > Nope; it's the smell that gives 'em away! > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Yes, you can judge people by their voices, but I think that sighted people > judge others by appearance more often than blind people judge people by > their voices. For example, a sighted might not talk to someone because the > person was wearing shabby clothes. Can you tell that a person is wearing > shabby clothes by the voice? > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >> What's the difference between looking at them and talking to them? Both >> sight and hearing are fallible. Seems to me even here we are ascribing >> to >> sight a mystique it does not merit. >> >> Mike >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:03 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look >> like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other >> grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so >> has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll >> talk to them first before judging them. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> >> Original message: >>> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot >> judge >>> people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. >>> Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not >>> all >>> of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a >>> person >>> looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can >>> ignore >>> appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mike Freeman" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> >>>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >>>> just >>>> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >>>> caused >>>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in >>>> the >>>> future. >> >>>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR >>>> work, >>>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >>>> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >>>> this >>>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >>>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say >>>> "yes". >>>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness >> causes >>>> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't >>>> see >>>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. >> >>>> Mike >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Jedi >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >>>> Arielle, >> >>>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >>>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >>>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >>>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >>>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >>>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >>>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >>>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >>>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >>>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >>>> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >>>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. >> >>>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >>>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >>>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >>>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >>>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >>>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >>>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >>>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >>>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >>>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >>>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >>>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >>>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >>>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >>>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >>>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >>>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >>>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >>>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >>>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >>>> not learn nearly as much as we have. >> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>>>> world as a whole? >> >>>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>>>> to accomplish life tasks? >>>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>>>> could fully function without light. >> >>>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >>>>> Arielle >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>>> bile.net >> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab >> le.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 29 04:55:19 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:55:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000c01cc0629$a4724600$ed56d200$@panix.com> Ignaci: I agree with you. Although I've heard a number of my colleagues opine that use of the GUI and the mouse makes things much faster than use of the keyboard, my experience has been the exact opposite, the same as you have experienced. Although, of course, it depends upon the type of material and structure of the data one is accessing. But in general, on average, I am much faster at getting specific tasks done quickly using the keyboard than are my mouse-bound colleagues. Actually,. I have one objective confirmation of this. A while back, I couldn't figure out why my iPhone wouldn't update using iTunes on the PC. I called AppleCare up and got an agent who was very familiar with screen-reader access and she remotely connected to my PC and watched me using iTunes -- not the most intuitive of programs. I was working under her directions and she said she'd seldom seen anyone find what I wanted and do what I needed to do as fast as I was going. Incidentally, it turned out I had to disable Kaspersky antivirus in order for iTunes to verify the update. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. If you were to regain sight, you can take all the time you need to relearn whatever you want because you can already do things being blind. If anything, you would figure out which things are more efficient to do with sight and which things are better the way you do them right now. I can tell you that I use my computer a lot faster than most sighted people around me, for example. So if I were to become sighted, I would probably keep using the keyboard to operate the computer most of the time... On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Chris: > This may surprise you but I'm the same way, and I lost my sight a bit later in life, though with all honesty I can't remember much of what I saw. > > Though I will not comment on your other points, like I have said > earlier, the reason I would NOT choose to become sighted is not > because blindness has some benefit, but because I'd have to learn > everything all over again should I see. > > Besides, because of my life with no sight, I feel that I'd still never trust my sight, just because I never grew up with it. > Because, it is my belief, that just as the sighted people would not > understand how it is to be blind, because they never have been, I think for those of us who are blind either from birth or from very young, we cannot imagine and wouldn't get used to sight, not to mention that our brains are wired differently anyway. > > FYI: what I mean by the above (and they've proven this > scientifically), is that for those of us who are born blind or lose > our sight very young--I don't know how that applies to others, our visual cortex is actually rewired for audio, so that it would be scientifically impossible to regain sight, since it means reprograming the brain. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all. >> >> What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion >> that brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is >> generally indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been >> asked many times, "If it were ever possible for you to surgically >> regain your sight, would you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted >> people who ask that question, my answer is "No." See, I believe that >> blindness is the most adaptable disability there is. Think about it. >> If you're deaf, you can't communicate with others except for the >> small group of people (compared to the number of people in America or >> the world at that) who know sign language. If you're >> wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power wheelchair, which is >> pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push that thing for you >> everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're mentally >> handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will probably >> have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of it. But if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do most everything that sighted people can independently with just a few minor adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned that they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. That's why when people ask me, "What's it lik e to be blind," I answer, "It's pretty much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long cane and read Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, you can use that line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for thought to you all. What do you think? >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> Hi all, >> >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in >> society who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. >> These specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be >> adapted to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this >> minority of people who do things differently from having full access >> to societal goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague >> struck the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its >> members could fully function without light. >> >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid >> of blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechj >> orgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Fri Apr 29 04:56:31 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:56:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <16084190053849C2B3C664FFE6A2964A@stanford.edu> References: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> <007901cc0616$50e342e0$f2a9c8a0$@panix.com> <000301cc0624$b3558f60$1a00ae20$@panix.com> <16084190053849C2B3C664FFE6A2964A@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <000d01cc0629$cf4ede60$6dec9b20$@panix.com> I hear you. It's spring and hay fever season! (grin) Now if the weather would only act like the damned trees and flowers ... Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Oh, forgot about that one. My problem is that I have enough other medical conditions that some of the other senses that would help make up for vision, such as smell, don't work to their full capacity or at all. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > Nope; it's the smell that gives 'em away! > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Yes, you can judge people by their voices, but I think that sighted people > judge others by appearance more often than blind people judge people by > their voices. For example, a sighted might not talk to someone because the > person was wearing shabby clothes. Can you tell that a person is wearing > shabby clothes by the voice? > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >> What's the difference between looking at them and talking to them? Both >> sight and hearing are fallible. Seems to me even here we are ascribing >> to >> sight a mystique it does not merit. >> >> Mike >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:03 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look >> like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other >> grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so >> has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll >> talk to them first before judging them. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> >> Original message: >>> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot >> judge >>> people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. >>> Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not >>> all >>> of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a >>> person >>> looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can >>> ignore >>> appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mike Freeman" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >> >>>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >>>> just >>>> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >>>> caused >>>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in >>>> the >>>> future. >> >>>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR >>>> work, >>>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >>>> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >>>> this >>>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >>>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say >>>> "yes". >>>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness >> causes >>>> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't >>>> see >>>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. >> >>>> Mike >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Jedi >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >> >>>> Arielle, >> >>>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >>>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >>>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >>>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >>>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >>>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >>>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >>>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >>>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >>>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >>>> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >>>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. >> >>>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >>>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >>>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >>>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >>>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >>>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >>>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >>>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >>>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >>>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >>>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >>>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >>>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >>>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >>>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >>>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >>>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >>>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >>>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >>>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >>>> not learn nearly as much as we have. >> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>>>> world as a whole? >> >>>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>>>> to accomplish life tasks? >>>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>>>> could fully function without light. >> >>>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >>>>> Arielle >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>>> bile.net >> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab >> le.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Apr 29 05:00:44 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 22:00:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. References: <4db9c843.c294e60a.62a3.2765@mx.google.com> <000c01cc0629$a4724600$ed56d200$@panix.com> Message-ID: <41AD813C5555488EB77E103A2C3F4360@stanford.edu> This brings up another interesting topic. As people who are blind, I think that we use muscle memory more than sighted people. Sighted people tend to look for it, even if it is always in the same place. For example, do any of you play bop-it? I think that one of the reasons that I am often better at it than my sighted peers is because I memorize where the different actions are where as I think that sighted people might always look, even though they could just memorize it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > Ignaci: > > I agree with you. Although I've heard a number of my colleagues opine > that > use of the GUI and the mouse makes things much faster than use of the > keyboard, my experience has been the exact opposite, the same as you have > experienced. Although, of course, it depends upon the type of material > and > structure of the data one is accessing. But in general, on average, I am > much faster at getting specific tasks done quickly using the keyboard than > are my mouse-bound colleagues. > > Actually,. I have one objective confirmation of this. A while back, I > couldn't figure out why my iPhone wouldn't update using iTunes on the PC. > I > called AppleCare up and got an agent who was very familiar with > screen-reader access and she remotely connected to my PC and watched me > using iTunes -- not the most intuitive of programs. I was working under > her > directions and she said she'd seldom seen anyone find what I wanted and do > what I needed to do as fast as I was going. > > Incidentally, it turned out I had to disable Kaspersky antivirus in order > for iTunes to verify the update. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > If you were to regain sight, you can take all the time you need to relearn > whatever you want because you can already do things being blind. If > anything, you would figure out which things are more efficient to do with > sight and which things are better the way you do them right now. I can > tell > you that I use my computer a lot faster than most sighted people around > me, > for example. So if I were to become sighted, I would probably keep using > the > keyboard to operate the computer most of the time... > On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Chris: >> This may surprise you but I'm the same way, and I lost my sight a bit > later in life, though with all honesty I can't remember much of what I > saw. >> >> Though I will not comment on your other points, like I have said >> earlier, the reason I would NOT choose to become sighted is not >> because blindness has some benefit, but because I'd have to learn >> everything all over again should I see. >> >> Besides, because of my life with no sight, I feel that I'd still never > trust my sight, just because I never grew up with it. >> Because, it is my belief, that just as the sighted people would not >> understand how it is to be blind, because they never have been, I think > for those of us who are blind either from birth or from very young, we > cannot imagine and wouldn't get used to sight, not to mention that our > brains are wired differently anyway. >> >> FYI: what I mean by the above (and they've proven this >> scientifically), is that for those of us who are born blind or lose >> our sight very young--I don't know how that applies to others, our visual > cortex is actually rewired for audio, so that it would be scientifically > impossible to regain sight, since it means reprograming the brain. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> >>> Hi, Arielle and all. >>> >>> What an interesting question! I'm interested to see what discussion >>> that brings about on the list. I'm of the opinion that blindness is >>> generally indifferent to our daily function. In fact, I have been >>> asked many times, "If it were ever possible for you to surgically >>> regain your sight, would you do it?" Surprisingly to all the sighted >>> people who ask that question, my answer is "No." See, I believe that >>> blindness is the most adaptable disability there is. Think about it. >>> If you're deaf, you can't communicate with others except for the >>> small group of people (compared to the number of people in America or >>> the world at that) who know sign language. If you're >>> wheelchair-bound, you can either buy a power wheelchair, which is >>> pretty expensive, or you'll need somebody to push that thing for you >>> everywhere unless you push it yourself. If you're mentally >>> handicapped, you can't learn well with your peers and will probably >>> have trouble communicating, depending on the severity of > it. But if you're blind, you can still learn, walk, communicate, and do > most everything that sighted people can independently with just a few > minor > adaptations. As the great Dr. Kenneth Jernigan said, "The real problem > of > blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the lack of > understanding and education which exist. If a blind person has the proper > training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a minor physical > nuissance." But keep in mind, though, that I'm blind from birth, so I'm a > little biassed. Probably someone who lost their sight later in life would > want to try to regain their sight in a heartbeat. So, I don't think it > would be necessary to get rid of all blindness altogether. I think > blindness has presented a great educational opportunity to the sighted > world, because from blind people like the ones in NFB, they've learned > that > they don't have to rely on their sight for everything in life. That's why > when people ask me, "What's it lik e to be blind," I answer, "It's pretty > much the same as being sighted. You just travel with a long cane and read > Braille, but that's really the only difference." And yes, you can use that > line if you want, LOL. Hopefuly, I gave some food for thought to you all. > What do you think? >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>> world as a whole? >>> >>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in >>> society who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. >>> These specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be >>> adapted to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this >>> minority of people who do things differently from having full access >>> to societal goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>> to accomplish life tasks? >>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague >>> struck the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its >>> members could fully function without light. >>> >>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid >>> of blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechj >>> orgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 >> 0gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 09:03:58 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:03:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] OT: Two Windows Live Mail Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All! I'm trying out Windows Mail for an email client, as I've had difficulties with Outlook and ThunderBird doing things. But I have two questions: 1. Is there a preferences or options section one can access with Windows Mail? All I seem to be able to get to is the ribbons, and I want to be able to tell the program if I want the thing to check email automatically, how often, etc? 2. I wanted to jump to my sent items folder, so I hit Control Y, went down to sent items for my specific email account and hit enter. Yet, it was still displaying my inbox and not the sent items. Any clue how to fix this? Thanks for anyone suggestions anyone is willing to provide. If you'd rather respond off list, my email is djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Just a side note.. The last conference call recording is going to be available shortly, I'm just away at the moment and had to do a laptop computer format after my user profiele got corrupted and I couldn't log in (lucky me, right?) so I'll have that for you soon. Best to All, >From David From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 14:07:23 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 09:07:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My article that is in the Sounding Board! Message-ID: MY MASSAGE SCHOOL EXPERIENCE By Rania Ismail Editor’s Note: Rania, a former LEAD student, learned her lessons well. Her determination and hard work have given her the opportunity to complete what she started. Rania is an active member of the At-Large Chapter of the affiliate. Keep up the great work, Rania! Since I was 14 years old, I wanted to become a massage therapist. I had sustained a neck injury that had left me in chronic pain, and at the time, massage therapy was the only thing that gave me any relief. It was from then on that I knew I wanted to become a massage therapist. I could give others who lived with chronic pain the same kind of relief I was receiving myself. After attending an 8-month program at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland, I did some research on massage schools. I found out that my local community college offered a massage therapy program. I decided to try it. While I was researching whether the Commission for the Blind would assist me with funds, I faced a lot of discouragement. Some people didn’t believe that I could become a massage therapist, either due to my blindness or my learning disability. Some of them even tried to convince me to change my career choice, but I wouldn’t budge. I knew that becoming a massage therapist was something that I truly wanted. Although the massage therapy program at the community college didn’t work out the way I hoped, I still learned a lot, and my journey didn’t stop. Some people continued trying to convince me not to go back to school and work toward my goal. Some people wanted me to gain work experience, instead of encouraging me to go back to school to finish what I had worked so hard to achieve. I pushed on despite the negativity, and didn’t let what they thought hinder my success. I continued looking for massage schools and at last found the Institute for Therapeutic Massage. I called the school and spoke to an admissions counselor. I explained my experience at the community college, and I told the counselor that I wanted to achieve my goal of becoming a massage therapist. When I toured the campus, I could tell that everyone at the school - from the counselors in admissions, to the teachers I met - really wanted to help me complete this program! I could tell that everyone believed that I could make it and achieve my goal. The people who believed in me and encouraged me to keep going are my mother, Terri Lucas, a longtime friend, Nicki Newton, my aide from middle school until I graduated from high school, Joe Ruffalo, who was one of my mentors in both the blindness field and one of my mentors in the field of massage therapy, Mary Ellen Ricks, who is a massage therapist, Jane Marron, another massage therapist, Jason Rivera, also a massage therapist, Alan Reynolds , a yoga instructor, and many more. I started at ITM in September 2009 and graduated in July 2010 with my certificate in therapeutic massage! It took me three years to achieve my goal. I will admit that it was a lot of hard work but it was worth it! After graduating, I applied for my New Jersey state certification, and I am now a New Jersey state certified massage therapist! Yes the journey was long with many road blocks, but I did it! I made it because of my willingness and my determination to learn. My instructors were also willing to work with me until the very end of the program. Now I am on call at a local salon. Joe taught me that when things don’t go the way you want them to but you have something that you really want, “it doesn’t matter how long you take to win the race, what matters is that you finish the race.” After thinking about that for a while, I came to realize that it was going to take me a little longer to achieve my goal but it was possible! That quote showed me that the only thing that matters in the end is that you finish what you started. Another quote that helped me keep going is this one from Christopher Reeve: For everyone who thought I couldn't do it For everyone who thought I shouldn't do it For everyone who said, “It's impossible” See you at the finish line! From brileyp at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 14:14:03 2011 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:14:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1EA35703-14BA-4CD5-B08B-12E5F3F34D18@gmail.com> Hello all, This is an interesting discussion, so I thought I'd pop in for a minute. This question goes, at the root of it, to how you view disability. If you view it as an aspect that creates diversity, then erasing it would be like erasing races or different languages. If you view disability as a disease, then logically the first response would be to want to cure it. What do you guys think? Briley On Apr 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Arielle: > I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of many things that make up an individual, > and in a world where genetics would be preprogramed, > it just be too perfect. > It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial. > I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which blindness and other disabilities are completely eradicated would just be too artificial, > almost like we literally managed to create our own world in a way. > > Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who were born cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so to speak. > Of course, > I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold world in which science would create people which I hope would never happen but its a good talking point anyway. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Apr 29 15:05:05 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:05:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] OT: Two Windows Live Mail Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Dave, Do you really mean Windows Mail or Windows Live Mail? I believe Windows Mail was only available with Vista. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:03:58 -0400, David Dunphy wrote: >Hi All! >I'm trying out Windows Mail for an email client, as I've had difficulties >with Outlook and ThunderBird doing things. But I have two questions: >1. Is there a preferences or options section one can access with Windows >Mail? All I seem to be able to get to is the ribbons, and I want to be able >to tell the program if I want the thing to check email automatically, how >often, etc? >2. I wanted to jump to my sent items folder, so I hit Control Y, went down >to sent items for my specific email account and hit enter. Yet, it was still >displaying my inbox and not the sent items. Any clue how to fix this? >Thanks for anyone suggestions anyone is willing to provide. If you'd rather >respond off list, my email is >djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >Just a side note.. The last conference call recording is going to be >available shortly, I'm just away at the moment and had to do a laptop >computer format after my user profiele got corrupted and I couldn't log in >(lucky me, right?) so I'll have that for you soon. >Best to All, >>From David >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 17:04:38 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:04:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to e-mails, books, and schol work. An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to go directly to that area. I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille translation key to turn that off. I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the file with the display. I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the cursor to move to. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. ~Jewel On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the > BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays > > >> Hi all, >> >> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >> have the funds for it. >> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >> >> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >> reality of them. >> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation and >> >> spelling you miss with speech. >> >> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >> need maintenance? >> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >> >> >> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >> >> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The braille >> >> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >> >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 17:59:18 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:59:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jewel, I also have a Focus 40 braille display and find it very useful for reading web pages and such. However, I do find it a little tricky to navigate MS Word documents and wonder if you have any tips. Specifically, I can use the panning keys to read through a line of text on the screen, but at the end of the line I have to pann back to the beginning of the line and use the whiz wheel to move to the next line. If I keep pressing the panning keys without using the whiz wheel, the braille display will show some random information about which page and section I'm on and stop advancing. Have you encountered this problem? Is there any way to fix it or is this just how the display works with MS Word? Ashley, I believe a braille display would be most useful when you need to read/edit long documents on the computer, so how much you will need it depends on the nature of the job you find. For personal reading/leisure books that you do not have to read on your PC, your Braille Note probably can serve the same purpose as a braille display connected to the computer. Katie On 4/29/11, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not > wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where > the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to > e-mails, books, and schol work. > > An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words > correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each > letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I > am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of > the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until > it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can > find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to > go directly to that area. > > I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you > put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, > it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever > you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or > TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille > translation key to turn that off. > > I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is > proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching > the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard > (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). > > I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for > me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered > comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and > answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the > file with the display. > > I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several > options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two > panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button > for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at > the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. > When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, > paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said > earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the > cursor to move to. > > If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. > > ~Jewel > > On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the >> BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >>> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >>> have the funds for it. >>> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >>> >>> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >>> reality of them. >>> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >>> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >>> and >>> >>> spelling you miss with speech. >>> >>> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >>> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >>> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >>> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >>> need maintenance? >>> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >>> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >>> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >>> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >>> >>> >>> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >>> >>> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >>> braille >>> >>> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >>> >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 20:50:06 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:50:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted Message-ID: <4dbb2493.cf4ee50a.5bd2.6287@mx.google.com> Hi,=20Sean=20and=20all. I=20respectfully=20disagree.=20=20Certainly=20all=20things=20in=20life,=20i= ncluding=20 blindness,=20come=20with=20pros=20and=20cons.=20=20Everything=20has=20a=20t= rade-off.=20=20 But=20you=20have=20to=20weigh=20the=20pros=20and=20cons,=20no=20matter=20ho= w=20many=20of=20 each,=20and=20decide=20which=20outweighs=20which.=20=20In=20other=20words,= =20will=20the=20 pros=20outweigh=20the=20cons,=20or=20the=20other=20way=20around?=20Although= =20we=20miss=20 out=20on=20the=20things=20that=20only=20are=20available=20through=20vision= =20and=20 can't=20be=20well=20described,=20we're=20not=20missing=20out=20on=20that=20= much.=20=20We=20 can=20read=20and=20write=20with=20Braille.=20=20We=20can=20use=20assistive= =20technology=20 like=20notetakers=20and=20screen=20readers=20to=20access=20many=20digital=20= things=20 that=20sighted=20people=20use=20all=20the=20time=20in=20this=20new=20digita= l=20age,=20 i.e.=20=20email,=20list=20serves=20(hint=20hint,=20what=20are=20we=20using= =20right=20 now),=20social=20media/networking,=20instant=20messaging,=20many=20Web=20si= tes=20 used=20for=20school=20research,=20work,=20or=20pleasure,=20wordprocessors,= =20 Braille=20printers,=20etc.=20=20We=20can,=20we=20can,=20we=20can!=20I=20thi= nk=20we=20 shouldn't=20be=20focusing=20on=20the=20small=20number=20of=20things=20we=20= can't=20do,=20 but=20rather=20on=20the=20many=20things=20we=20can=20do=20with=20minor=20ad= aptations.=20=20 There=20is=20still=20a=20lot=20of=20work=20to=20be=20done,=20but=20as=20I=20= said=20in=20a=20 speech=20I=20gave=20to=20the=20NFB=20of=20Maryland=20a=20couple=20years=20a= go=20at=20our=20 state=20convention,=20"Blind=20people=20have=20come=20along=20way,=20baby!"= =20 Although=20I=20wanted=20to=20have=20a=20little=20fun=20with=20that=20statem= ent,=20it's=20 true.=20=20Looking=20back=20at=20history,=20we're=20doing=20things=20now=20= without=20 sight=20that=20people=20couldn't=20have=20imagined=20just=20fifty=20or=20a= =20hundred=20 years=20ago.=20=20Frankly,=20if=20we=20want=20positive=20attitudes=20from=20= our=20 sighted-based=20society,=20I=20think=20we=20need=20more=20positive=20attitu= des=20 about=20blindness=20from=20our=20own=20blind=20community.=20=20I=20hope=20w= e=20can=20 respectfuly=20disagree.=20=20I=20welcome=20yours=20and=20everyone=20else's= =20 opinions=20on=20this. Chris=20Nusbaum "A=20loss=20of=20sight,=20never=20a=20loss=20of=20vision!"=20(Camp=20Abilit= ies=20motto) =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Sean=20Whalen"=20 Hi, everyone. Here are some blindness-related news stories from the past few days you all might be interested in. Enjoy! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) ---- Original Message ------ From: "Roberthansen1970 at gmail.com" ,"conibodyworks at gmail.com" ,"don.gillmore at gmail.com" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 4423 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment Type: application/octet-stream Size: 322 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 20:50:04 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:50:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Message-ID: <4dbb2491.cf4ee50a.5bd2.6285@mx.google.com> Hi, Bernedeta. Thank you very much for your kind words!! I understand your point and agree with most of it. Yes, our technology as well as their power wheelchairs are very expensive, but we can't live without them. So let's use another example here that I meant to use in the post but forgot to. For a long time, any steps or curbs have presented a huge accessibility problem for wheelchair users. For us, the only real accessibility barriers in our independent travel are quiet cars (although the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act, aka the Quiet Car Law was passed) and people who don't let guide dogs into public places, even though that law was passed. Also, my point about deaf people wasn't that they can't communicate, they very well can (i.e. Helen Keller, hint hint.) But there's only a select group of people who know sign language. For the rest of the world, sign language just looks like a bunch of meaningless hand gestures. Sight has no effect on communication, although some sighted people think it does because as you said, they think eye contact's * really * important. Guess they'll have to get used to it, lol! I do understand what you're saying, though. Thanks for the input! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Apr 29 22:33:05 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:33:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness Message-ID: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> It continues to amaze me in how inaccessible new technologies can be. I don't think that the people who design them are purposefully making them inaccessible, but it is still very frustrating. For example, I just read a paper about a virtual nurse agent that is designed to help patients understand medical information before being discharged from the hospital. Although the system does talk, it has several other features, including a touchscreen and pointing at places in a print booklet, which would be completely inaccessible to the blind. My question then is, besides educating people about blindness, is there something else that could be done? For example, should there be a law that all touch screen devices have to be accessible or have an option for accessibility? The paper can be found at: http://relationalagents.com/publications/CHI09.VirtualNurse.pdf Nicole From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Apr 29 22:42:09 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:42:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem Message-ID: <9A095A61CCA743E689F5BA6D3DC9FD42@stanford.edu> Okay, sorry if this is a tiny bit off topic, but I'm having problems with JAWS and facebook. When I go to another person's profile and view their friends, I cannot find a way to make it display more than just ten of that person's friend. From iperrault at hotmail.com Fri Apr 29 22:56:52 2011 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:56:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem In-Reply-To: <9A095A61CCA743E689F5BA6D3DC9FD42@stanford.edu> References: <9A095A61CCA743E689F5BA6D3DC9FD42@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Good point. I use the mobile version, m.facebook.com, and in order to find a friend of someone that begins with l, for example, I have to keep hitting see more friends until I get to the L's! Any way to speed up the searching process? -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:42 PM To: NABS-L Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem Okay, sorry if this is a tiny bit off topic, but I'm having problems with JAWS and facebook. When I go to another person's profile and view their friends, I cannot find a way to make it display more than just ten of that person's friend. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iperrault%40hotmail.com From z.dreicer at emissives.com Fri Apr 29 23:01:04 2011 From: z.dreicer at emissives.com (dreicer, zachary) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:01:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem Message-ID: im not sure on that, but friend me using this email address! Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" References: <4dbb4670.0d1e2a0a.6dfa.ffff8869SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: With Facebook, a lot of things appear at the bottom of the screen after all of the wall stuff. If you click on friends, that's where they appear. If all of them don't, then there will be a see more link. This is true with events too if you want to see who is attending, maybe attending, etc, and with photos. If you click on a photo in someone's album to comment on, it won't go to a separate page, but appear at the bottom. The mobile site is great. I prefer it to look at the news feed, but when you click on someone's friends, you can only see 10 at a time, and sometimes after clicking through a few pages of friends it will cease having a see more link. So to me, it is only helpful if you know the name of the frend of a friend you are looking for. Cindy On 4/29/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: > im not sure on that, but friend me using this email address! > > Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "NABS-L" Date sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:42:09 -0700 > Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem > > Okay, sorry if this is a tiny bit off topic, but I'm having > problems with JAWS and facebook. When I go to another person's > profile and view their friends, I cannot find a way to make it > display more than just ten of that person's friend. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer > %40emissives.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett UNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 29 23:44:26 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:44:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7630E929A9844BD4AEB32C8186C3CCEC@OwnerPC> Jewel, That is good news and that is why I want a focus 40. I want to know the spelling and punctuation. This is more for documents where I need to edit and proofread them. For reading, I can just listen to jaws. To justify the expense to myself or work or whatever, I need to know it does more than Jaws will do. So this display has fourty cells; you say it automatically translates text to grade two braille. You said you can jump to the cell by pressing the coresponding button and it moves the cursor. Can you just read with it or do you write too? Does it move the cursor on your screen or just on the braille display? If rehab bought you this, you're real lucky. "I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is proving promising. " What is this? Typing with the six dot keyboard? Do you mean you are typing in grade two braille? Also how do you tell the paragraphs on the display? It is linear so you cannot "see" indenting. What about changes in font like bold and italics? Does the display convey this somehow? Since you're a braille reader primarily, I bet its real fast for you to input and read braille. Do you know your speed? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Hi, Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to e-mails, books, and schol work. An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to go directly to that area. I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille translation key to turn that off. I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the file with the display. I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the cursor to move to. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. ~Jewel On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the > BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays > > >> Hi all, >> >> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >> have the funds for it. >> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >> >> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >> reality of them. >> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >> and >> >> spelling you miss with speech. >> >> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >> need maintenance? >> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >> >> >> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >> >> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >> braille >> >> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >> >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 29 23:49:45 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:49:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9248229A626741AEA76C658A2C3B247A@OwnerPC> Katie, Exactly. I want the display for reading/editing documents because I can actually see the punctuation and spelling then. For personal reading or leisure books, either using the braille Note / web braille works or just the myraid of audio options. I tend to use audio, not because I don't like the braille display, but because I don't want to wear the thing out! Its delicate and I do Not want the cells to wear out again; as they did a while ago; like four cells had to be repaired. I also read hard copy braille too. That reminds me, got to order some books to keep my library membership active and practice braille. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Katie Wang Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Jewel, I also have a Focus 40 braille display and find it very useful for reading web pages and such. However, I do find it a little tricky to navigate MS Word documents and wonder if you have any tips. Specifically, I can use the panning keys to read through a line of text on the screen, but at the end of the line I have to pann back to the beginning of the line and use the whiz wheel to move to the next line. If I keep pressing the panning keys without using the whiz wheel, the braille display will show some random information about which page and section I'm on and stop advancing. Have you encountered this problem? Is there any way to fix it or is this just how the display works with MS Word? Ashley, I believe a braille display would be most useful when you need to read/edit long documents on the computer, so how much you will need it depends on the nature of the job you find. For personal reading/leisure books that you do not have to read on your PC, your Braille Note probably can serve the same purpose as a braille display connected to the computer. Katie On 4/29/11, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not > wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where > the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to > e-mails, books, and schol work. > > An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words > correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each > letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I > am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of > the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until > it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can > find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to > go directly to that area. > > I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you > put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, > it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever > you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or > TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille > translation key to turn that off. > > I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is > proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching > the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard > (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). > > I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for > me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered > comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and > answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the > file with the display. > > I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several > options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two > panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button > for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at > the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. > When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, > paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said > earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the > cursor to move to. > > If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. > > ~Jewel > > On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the >> BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >>> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >>> have the funds for it. >>> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >>> >>> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know >>> the >>> reality of them. >>> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the >>> display >>> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >>> and >>> >>> spelling you miss with speech. >>> >>> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >>> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >>> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >>> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >>> need maintenance? >>> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >>> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I >>> mean >>> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? >>> If >>> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >>> >>> >>> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >>> >>> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >>> braille >>> >>> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >>> >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 00:03:32 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:03:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44A61485-C26F-4427-A195-AEADB99F4B8D@gmail.com> Just wondering, how much is a Focus 40 more or less? Thanks, Jorge On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > Jewel, I also have a Focus 40 braille display and find it very useful > for reading web pages and such. However, I do find it a little tricky > to navigate MS Word documents and wonder if you have any tips. > Specifically, I can use the panning keys to read through a line of > text on the screen, but at the end of the line I have to pann back to > the beginning of the line and use the whiz wheel to move to the next > line. If I keep pressing the panning keys without using the whiz > wheel, the braille display will show some random information about > which page and section I'm on and stop advancing. Have you encountered > this problem? Is there any way to fix it or is this just how the > display works with MS Word? > Ashley, I believe a braille display would be most useful when you need > to read/edit long documents on the computer, so how much you will need > it depends on the nature of the job you find. For personal > reading/leisure books that you do not have to read on your PC, your > Braille Note probably can serve the same purpose as a braille display > connected to the computer. > Katie > > On 4/29/11, Jewel wrote: >> Hi, >> Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not >> wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where >> the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to >> e-mails, books, and schol work. >> >> An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words >> correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each >> letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I >> am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of >> the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until >> it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can >> find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to >> go directly to that area. >> >> I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you >> put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, >> it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever >> you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or >> TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille >> translation key to turn that off. >> >> I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is >> proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching >> the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard >> (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). >> >> I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for >> me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered >> comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and >> answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the >> file with the display. >> >> I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several >> options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two >> panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button >> for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at >> the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. >> When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, >> paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said >> earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the >> cursor to move to. >> >> If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the >>> BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >>>> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >>>> have the funds for it. >>>> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >>>> >>>> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >>>> reality of them. >>>> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >>>> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >>>> and >>>> >>>> spelling you miss with speech. >>>> >>>> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >>>> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >>>> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >>>> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >>>> need maintenance? >>>> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >>>> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >>>> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >>>> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >>>> >>>> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >>>> braille >>>> >>>> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >>>> >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 00:19:58 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:19:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness In-Reply-To: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> References: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Nicole, I agree with you. New technology continues to be a stumbling block, at least in part. However, I think the answer is twofold: First, we should strive to educate the people in charge of leading technology companies with regards to blindness. Second, there really should be a law mandating all touch screens be accessible. However, I feel that progress will come. As the number of Americans with vision impairment/vision loss increases, technology will HAVE to be made accessible. Just my thoughts, Patrick On 4/29/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > It continues to amaze me in how inaccessible new technologies can be. I > don't think that the people who design them are purposefully making them > inaccessible, but it is still very frustrating. For example, I just read a > paper about a virtual nurse agent that is designed to help patients > understand medical information before being discharged from the hospital. > Although the system does talk, it has several other features, including a > touchscreen and pointing at places in a print booklet, which would be > completely inaccessible to the blind. My question then is, besides educating > people about blindness, is there something else that could be done? For > example, should there be a law that all touch screen devices have to be > accessible or have an option for accessibility? > The paper can be found at: > http://relationalagents.com/publications/CHI09.VirtualNurse.pdf > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 30 01:08:41 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:08:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: <44A61485-C26F-4427-A195-AEADB99F4B8D@gmail.com> References: <44A61485-C26F-4427-A195-AEADB99F4B8D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59F82D7BB70E4AD28F7A79F298A904FB@OwnerPC> Good question. Also are there any smaller less expensive displays? Who makes them? -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 8:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Just wondering, how much is a Focus 40 more or less? Thanks, Jorge On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > Jewel, I also have a Focus 40 braille display and find it very useful > for reading web pages and such. However, I do find it a little tricky > to navigate MS Word documents and wonder if you have any tips. > Specifically, I can use the panning keys to read through a line of > text on the screen, but at the end of the line I have to pann back to > the beginning of the line and use the whiz wheel to move to the next > line. If I keep pressing the panning keys without using the whiz > wheel, the braille display will show some random information about > which page and section I'm on and stop advancing. Have you encountered > this problem? Is there any way to fix it or is this just how the > display works with MS Word? > Ashley, I believe a braille display would be most useful when you need > to read/edit long documents on the computer, so how much you will need > it depends on the nature of the job you find. For personal > reading/leisure books that you do not have to read on your PC, your > Braille Note probably can serve the same purpose as a braille display > connected to the computer. > Katie > > On 4/29/11, Jewel wrote: >> Hi, >> Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not >> wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where >> the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to >> e-mails, books, and schol work. >> >> An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words >> correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each >> letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I >> am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of >> the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until >> it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can >> find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to >> go directly to that area. >> >> I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you >> put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, >> it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever >> you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or >> TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille >> translation key to turn that off. >> >> I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is >> proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching >> the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard >> (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). >> >> I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for >> me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered >> comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and >> answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the >> file with the display. >> >> I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several >> options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two >> panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button >> for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at >> the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. >> When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, >> paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said >> earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the >> cursor to move to. >> >> If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use >>> the >>> BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >>>> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as >>>> they >>>> have the funds for it. >>>> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >>>> >>>> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know >>>> the >>>> reality of them. >>>> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the >>>> display >>>> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >>>> and >>>> >>>> spelling you miss with speech. >>>> >>>> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >>>> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? >>>> Is >>>> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >>>> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do >>>> they >>>> need maintenance? >>>> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >>>> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I >>>> mean >>>> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? >>>> If >>>> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >>>> >>>> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >>>> braille >>>> >>>> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >>>> >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 02:24:46 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:24:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness In-Reply-To: References: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <008b01cc06dd$c6b12920$54137b60$@panix.com> Patrick et al: I wouldn't count on increased numbers of visually impaired people to drive technology development. Even if the number were to double, visually impaired people would still constitute a minority of the population. Short of legal requirements, development of technology is market-driven. And although *we* don't like touch-screens and complaints of senior citizens about them strike a chord with us, most people tend to like them and they are far easier to maintain than are devices with buttons and dials that, being mechanical devices, wear out easily. I agree that we should strive to educate technology vendors about our needs but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to respond short of legal sanctions. In this connection, while not the whole answer, our Technology Bill of Rights would go a long way toward solving the problem. Even then, however, we will still face some technology barriers in that innovation goes on and, like it or not, it is geared toward the needs of the majority so we, the blind, are and probably always will be playing catch-up. Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Molloy Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness Nicole, I agree with you. New technology continues to be a stumbling block, at least in part. However, I think the answer is twofold: First, we should strive to educate the people in charge of leading technology companies with regards to blindness. Second, there really should be a law mandating all touch screens be accessible. However, I feel that progress will come. As the number of Americans with vision impairment/vision loss increases, technology will HAVE to be made accessible. Just my thoughts, Patrick On 4/29/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > It continues to amaze me in how inaccessible new technologies can be. I > don't think that the people who design them are purposefully making them > inaccessible, but it is still very frustrating. For example, I just read a > paper about a virtual nurse agent that is designed to help patients > understand medical information before being discharged from the hospital. > Although the system does talk, it has several other features, including a > touchscreen and pointing at places in a print booklet, which would be > completely inaccessible to the blind. My question then is, besides educating > people about blindness, is there something else that could be done? For > example, should there be a law that all touch screen devices have to be > accessible or have an option for accessibility? > The paper can be found at: > http://relationalagents.com/publications/CHI09.VirtualNurse.pdf > > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail .com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 02:46:48 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:46:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: <9248229A626741AEA76C658A2C3B247A@OwnerPC> References: <9248229A626741AEA76C658A2C3B247A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <008c01cc06e0$dad2a2a0$9077e7e0$@panix.com> Hi, all. Before making my comment, please know that I'm not speaking against Braille nor am I contradicting what others have said about the usefulness of Braille displays. In fact, I own and happily use a Braille Sense Plus. I also was the primary author of Washington state's Braille Bill. Please keep this in mind when reading what follows. Several people on this list have listed the virtues of computer Braille displays. I, however, don't use one and probably will not. Perhaps I am old-school but I am of the generation that learned to type using -- gasp -- a real typewriter (and a manual one at that!). I far prefer speech access to a computer because I don't have to take my hands off the computer keyboard. Hence, I can type faster and interact with the computer more quickly than I could if I were constantly having to take my hands off the QWERTY keyboard to read the Braille display. Moreover, even though I use and love the Braille Sense Plus with its Braille keyboard, I can type far faster using the QWERTY keyboard on the computer than I can Braille using a Braille keyboard. As to detecting punctuation and the like, if one listens closely, one can catch possible punctuation faux pas and typeos and spelling mistakes -- at least I can. Admittedly, exactly what's wrong requires one to review a bit withs peech but I'm pretty fast at it, especially as I haven't taken my hands off the keyboard. As to dealing with foreign languages, I admit that Braille is helpful in the beginning. But, at least with respect to Spanish and German, the orthography and pronunciation/spelling rules are sufficiently literal and fixed that one gets quite good at listening to the languages and knowing how words are spelled just from their pronunciation, just as one often can (though obviously not always) in English. By the time I took advanced German courses, I had no Braille materials and had to use readers just as I did in my regular courses conducted in English. I had little trouble and usually knew when to ask how a word was spelled. Just wanted to let people know that even a Braille lover such as I prefer speech to Braille for computer access. And yes, I programmed using speech for many years. One gets used to the quirks of one's synthesizer and can often tell what's on the page and what it looks like, especially with Punctuation set to All. I know other programmers (including Tracy Carcione) who used speech for computer interaction as programmers for many years. Peace! Mike Freeman -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Katie, Exactly. I want the display for reading/editing documents because I can actually see the punctuation and spelling then. For personal reading or leisure books, either using the braille Note / web braille works or just the myraid of audio options. I tend to use audio, not because I don't like the braille display, but because I don't want to wear the thing out! Its delicate and I do Not want the cells to wear out again; as they did a while ago; like four cells had to be repaired. I also read hard copy braille too. That reminds me, got to order some books to keep my library membership active and practice braille. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Katie Wang Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Jewel, I also have a Focus 40 braille display and find it very useful for reading web pages and such. However, I do find it a little tricky to navigate MS Word documents and wonder if you have any tips. Specifically, I can use the panning keys to read through a line of text on the screen, but at the end of the line I have to pann back to the beginning of the line and use the whiz wheel to move to the next line. If I keep pressing the panning keys without using the whiz wheel, the braille display will show some random information about which page and section I'm on and stop advancing. Have you encountered this problem? Is there any way to fix it or is this just how the display works with MS Word? Ashley, I believe a braille display would be most useful when you need to read/edit long documents on the computer, so how much you will need it depends on the nature of the job you find. For personal reading/leisure books that you do not have to read on your PC, your Braille Note probably can serve the same purpose as a braille display connected to the computer. Katie On 4/29/11, Jewel wrote: > Hi, > Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not > wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where > the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to > e-mails, books, and schol work. > > An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words > correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each > letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I > am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of > the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until > it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can > find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to > go directly to that area. > > I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you > put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, > it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever > you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or > TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille > translation key to turn that off. > > I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is > proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching > the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard > (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). > > I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for > me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered > comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and > answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the > file with the display. > > I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several > options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two > panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button > for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at > the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. > When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, > paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said > earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the > cursor to move to. > > If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. > > ~Jewel > > On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use >> the BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'd love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >>> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as >>> they have the funds for it. >>> But privately, I don't know. Isn't the typical display $3000? >>> >>> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I'd like to >>> know the reality of them. >>> I'm not an auditory person and I've just thought that reading the >>> display via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the >>> punctuation and >>> >>> spelling you miss with speech. >>> >>> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >>> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? >>> Is it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at >>> the touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often >>> do they need maintenance? >>> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >>> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I >>> mean does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though >>> its text? >>> If >>> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >>> >>> >>> Any pros and cons, I'd like to hear. >>> >>> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >>> braille >>> >>> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >>> >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%4 >>> 0wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >> %40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40 > gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 02:48:00 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:48:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: <7630E929A9844BD4AEB32C8186C3CCEC@OwnerPC> References: <7630E929A9844BD4AEB32C8186C3CCEC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <008d01cc06e1$0582fae0$1088f0a0$@panix.com> Ashley: I can proofread documents just fine using speech alone. AS I say, one gets used to the quirks of one's synthesizer. Spellcheck is also an assist here. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Jewel, That is good news and that is why I want a focus 40. I want to know the spelling and punctuation. This is more for documents where I need to edit and proofread them. For reading, I can just listen to jaws. To justify the expense to myself or work or whatever, I need to know it does more than Jaws will do. So this display has fourty cells; you say it automatically translates text to grade two braille. You said you can jump to the cell by pressing the coresponding button and it moves the cursor. Can you just read with it or do you write too? Does it move the cursor on your screen or just on the braille display? If rehab bought you this, you're real lucky. "I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is proving promising. " What is this? Typing with the six dot keyboard? Do you mean you are typing in grade two braille? Also how do you tell the paragraphs on the display? It is linear so you cannot "see" indenting. What about changes in font like bold and italics? Does the display convey this somehow? Since you're a braille reader primarily, I bet its real fast for you to input and read braille. Do you know your speed? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Hi, Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to e-mails, books, and schol work. An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to go directly to that area. I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille translation key to turn that off. I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the file with the display. I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the cursor to move to. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. ~Jewel On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use > the BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays > > >> Hi all, >> >> I'd love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as >> they have the funds for it. >> But privately, I don't know. Isn't the typical display $3000? >> >> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I'd like to know >> the reality of them. >> I'm not an auditory person and I've just thought that reading the >> display via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the >> punctuation and >> >> spelling you miss with speech. >> >> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? >> Is it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at >> the touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often >> do they need maintenance? >> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I >> mean does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its >> text? If not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >> >> >> Any pros and cons, I'd like to hear. >> >> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >> braille >> >> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >> >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Apr 30 02:54:09 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:54:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness References: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> <008b01cc06dd$c6b12920$54137b60$@panix.com> Message-ID: I disagree on just one small point. It is not touch screens themselves that I personally don't like. What I don't like is when they don't have a mode for accessibility. As Apple has shown with the iPhone and iPad, touch screens can be made accessible if the underlying software is made to work certain ways. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness > Patrick et al: > > I wouldn't count on increased numbers of visually impaired people to drive > technology development. Even if the number were to double, visually > impaired people would still constitute a minority of the population. > Short > of legal requirements, development of technology is market-driven. And > although *we* don't like touch-screens and complaints of senior citizens > about them strike a chord with us, most people tend to like them and they > are far easier to maintain than are devices with buttons and dials that, > being mechanical devices, wear out easily. > > I agree that we should strive to educate technology vendors about our > needs > but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to respond short of legal > sanctions. In this connection, while not the whole answer, our Technology > Bill of Rights would go a long way toward solving the problem. Even then, > however, we will still face some technology barriers in that innovation > goes > on and, like it or not, it is geared toward the needs of the majority so > we, > the blind, are and probably always will be playing catch-up. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Patrick Molloy > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:20 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness > > Nicole, > I agree with you. New technology continues to be a stumbling block, at > least in part. However, I think the answer is twofold: First, we > should strive to educate the people in charge of leading technology > companies with regards to blindness. Second, there really should be a > law mandating all touch screens be accessible. However, I feel that > progress will come. As the number of Americans with vision > impairment/vision loss increases, technology will HAVE to be made > accessible. > Just my thoughts, > Patrick > > On 4/29/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> It continues to amaze me in how inaccessible new technologies can be. I >> don't think that the people who design them are purposefully making them >> inaccessible, but it is still very frustrating. For example, I just read >> a >> paper about a virtual nurse agent that is designed to help patients >> understand medical information before being discharged from the hospital. >> Although the system does talk, it has several other features, including a >> touchscreen and pointing at places in a print booklet, which would be >> completely inaccessible to the blind. My question then is, besides > educating >> people about blindness, is there something else that could be done? For >> example, should there be a law that all touch screen devices have to be >> accessible or have an option for accessibility? >> The paper can be found at: >> http://relationalagents.com/publications/CHI09.VirtualNurse.pdf >> >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail > .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 03:02:11 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:02:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness In-Reply-To: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> References: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <008e01cc06e3$00ea7510$02bf5f30$@panix.com> Nicole: NFB's proposed Technology Bill of Rights might well cover this situation. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 3:33 PM To: NABS-L Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness It continues to amaze me in how inaccessible new technologies can be. I don't think that the people who design them are purposefully making them inaccessible, but it is still very frustrating. For example, I just read a paper about a virtual nurse agent that is designed to help patients understand medical information before being discharged from the hospital. Although the system does talk, it has several other features, including a touchscreen and pointing at places in a print booklet, which would be completely inaccessible to the blind. My question then is, besides educating people about blindness, is there something else that could be done? For example, should there be a law that all touch screen devices have to be accessible or have an option for accessibility? The paper can be found at: http://relationalagents.com/publications/CHI09.VirtualNurse.pdf Nicole _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 03:24:28 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:24:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <1EA35703-14BA-4CD5-B08B-12E5F3F34D18@gmail.com> References: <1EA35703-14BA-4CD5-B08B-12E5F3F34D18@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00aa01cc06e6$1d8ee310$58aca930$@panix.com> Are these two views really mutually exclusive? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:14 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Hello all, This is an interesting discussion, so I thought I'd pop in for a minute. This question goes, at the root of it, to how you view disability. If you view it as an aspect that creates diversity, then erasing it would be like erasing races or different languages. If you view disability as a disease, then logically the first response would be to want to cure it. What do you guys think? Briley On Apr 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Arielle: > I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of many things that make up an individual, > and in a world where genetics would be preprogramed, > it just be too perfect. > It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial. > I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which blindness and other disabilities are completely eradicated would just be too artificial, > almost like we literally managed to create our own world in a way. > > Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who were born cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so to speak. > Of course, > I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold world in which science would create people which I hope would never happen but its a good talking point anyway. > > Jorge > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >> world as a whole? >> >> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >> to accomplish life tasks? >> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >> could fully function without light. >> >> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae z%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 03:28:20 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:28:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness In-Reply-To: References: <559E4E8B240049AFA4CD219E62A72E16@stanford.edu> <008b01cc06dd$c6b12920$54137b60$@panix.com> Message-ID: <00b701cc06e6$a78b49f0$f6a1ddd0$@panix.com> No argument with you there. But some people with they would just go away so I adduced some reasons why they won't. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness I disagree on just one small point. It is not touch screens themselves that I personally don't like. What I don't like is when they don't have a mode for accessibility. As Apple has shown with the iPhone and iPad, touch screens can be made accessible if the underlying software is made to work certain ways. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness > Patrick et al: > > I wouldn't count on increased numbers of visually impaired people to drive > technology development. Even if the number were to double, visually > impaired people would still constitute a minority of the population. > Short > of legal requirements, development of technology is market-driven. And > although *we* don't like touch-screens and complaints of senior citizens > about them strike a chord with us, most people tend to like them and they > are far easier to maintain than are devices with buttons and dials that, > being mechanical devices, wear out easily. > > I agree that we should strive to educate technology vendors about our > needs > but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to respond short of legal > sanctions. In this connection, while not the whole answer, our Technology > Bill of Rights would go a long way toward solving the problem. Even then, > however, we will still face some technology barriers in that innovation > goes > on and, like it or not, it is geared toward the needs of the majority so > we, > the blind, are and probably always will be playing catch-up. > > Mike Freeman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Patrick Molloy > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:20 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness > > Nicole, > I agree with you. New technology continues to be a stumbling block, at > least in part. However, I think the answer is twofold: First, we > should strive to educate the people in charge of leading technology > companies with regards to blindness. Second, there really should be a > law mandating all touch screens be accessible. However, I feel that > progress will come. As the number of Americans with vision > impairment/vision loss increases, technology will HAVE to be made > accessible. > Just my thoughts, > Patrick > > On 4/29/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> It continues to amaze me in how inaccessible new technologies can be. I >> don't think that the people who design them are purposefully making them >> inaccessible, but it is still very frustrating. For example, I just read >> a >> paper about a virtual nurse agent that is designed to help patients >> understand medical information before being discharged from the hospital. >> Although the system does talk, it has several other features, including a >> touchscreen and pointing at places in a print booklet, which would be >> completely inaccessible to the blind. My question then is, besides > educating >> people about blindness, is there something else that could be done? For >> example, should there be a law that all touch screen devices have to be >> accessible or have an option for accessibility? >> The paper can be found at: >> http://relationalagents.com/publications/CHI09.VirtualNurse.pdf >> >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail > .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Apr 30 03:33:52 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:33:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: <44A61485-C26F-4427-A195-AEADB99F4B8D@gmail.com> References: <44A61485-C26F-4427-A195-AEADB99F4B8D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think they are about $2700. Dave At 07:03 PM 4/29/2011, you wrote: >Just wondering, >how much is a Focus 40 more or less? >Thanks, >Jorge >On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > > > Jewel, I also have a Focus 40 braille display and find it very useful > > for reading web pages and such. However, I do find it a little tricky > > to navigate MS Word documents and wonder if you have any tips. > > Specifically, I can use the panning keys to read through a line of > > text on the screen, but at the end of the line I have to pann back to > > the beginning of the line and use the whiz wheel to move to the next > > line. If I keep pressing the panning keys without using the whiz > > wheel, the braille display will show some random information about > > which page and section I'm on and stop advancing. Have you encountered > > this problem? Is there any way to fix it or is this just how the > > display works with MS Word? > > Ashley, I believe a braille display would be most useful when you need > > to read/edit long documents on the computer, so how much you will need > > it depends on the nature of the job you find. For personal > > reading/leisure books that you do not have to read on your PC, your > > Braille Note probably can serve the same purpose as a braille display > > connected to the computer. > > Katie > > > > On 4/29/11, Jewel wrote: > >> Hi, > >> Jewel here. I have a Focus 40. For me, the main benefit is not > >> wondering how a word is spelled while I'm reading it, knowing where > >> the punctuation is put, and being able to read instead of listening to > >> e-mails, books, and schol work. > >> > >> An example: In Spanish class, we have to know how to spell words > >> correctly. Without the braille display, I have to listen to each > >> letter individually for every word. This takes waaay to long. Also, I > >> am given worksheets where I need to put the answer within the area of > >> the line. If I am lsstening to this, I have to go word by word until > >> it says underline underline underline. With a braille display, I can > >> find the line just while reading and can press a cursor routing key to > >> go directly to that area. > >> > >> I had no troulb e setting up the display. It comes with a CD that you > >> put in the computer and goes step by step through the process. Also, > >> it has a Braille translation key that, when on, translates whatever > >> you are reading into grade 2 Braille, whether on-line, in a word or > >> TXT file, or hatever. To read a BRF file, you just press the braille > >> translation key to turn that off. > >> > >> I'm still learning how to use the display as a keyboard, but it is > >> proving promising. I know how to move through a file without touching > >> the keyboard, and am learning how to type using the six-dot keyboard > >> (which is actually eight because it can do computer Braille). > >> > >> I wanted to show someone how much of a difference the dislay made for > >> me, so I read a file for the first time via the JAWS speech, answered > >> comprehension questions, then read it with the Braille display and > >> answered other questions. I got way more comprehension when I read the > >> file with the display. > >> > >> I've never use d a Braille note, but with the Focus 40, I have several > >> options for panning, using a wizwheel, two rocker switches, and two > >> panning buttons. For examle, I tend to use the right panning button > >> for panning while reading a long file, because I can just tap it at > >> the end of the line before moving b ack to the beginning of the line. > >> When I'm skimming a document, I use the wizwheeel to skim by line, > >> paragraph, or sentence. Moving the cursor is easy, like I said > >> earlier, by just pressing the button above the cell you want the > >> cursor to move to. > >> > >> If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer. > >> > >> ~Jewel > >> > >> On 4/28/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >>> What model and KS version of the BrailleNote do you have? You can use the > >>> BrailleNote as a Braille display for the computer. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:08 PM > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I'd love to have a braille display. If I work for a government > >>>> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they > >>>> have the funds for it. > >>>> But privately, I don't know. Isn't the typical display $3000? > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I'd like > to know the > >>>> reality of them. > >>>> I'm not an auditory person and I've just thought that reading > the display > >>>> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> spelling you miss with speech. > >>>> > >>>> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? > >>>> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is > >>>> it like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the > >>>> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they > >>>> need maintenance? > >>>> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? > >>>> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text > documents? I mean > >>>> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though > its text? If > >>>> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Any pros and cons, I'd like to hear. > >>>> > >>>> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The > >>>> braille > >>>> > >>>> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Ashley From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 04:01:04 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:01:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <00aa01cc06e6$1d8ee310$58aca930$@panix.com> References: <1EA35703-14BA-4CD5-B08B-12E5F3F34D18@gmail.com> <00aa01cc06e6$1d8ee310$58aca930$@panix.com> Message-ID: Chris, Eye contact really *is* that important. I think a good case can be made that people communicate more by body language than by speaking- although it's certainly debatable. Nicole...I think sighted people go by muscle memory as much as we do after they know where things are. Most really efficint typists (or is it keyboarders?) don't look at the keys. Most talented athletes depend on muscle memory. Think free throw shots, golf swings, hitting a baseball where you want it to go, throwing someone in judo or pining in wrestling...that's all muscle memory. And sighted people use it all the time in daily life...I really don't think we have the edge there but does it really matter? Mike...I agree with you. Blindness to me is a disease- not a debilitating disease, a disease that can become a minor inconvenience once I get the right training, but a disease nonetheless. Byut that doesn't mean it hasn't contributed to a lot of good in the world and increased diversity. I don't think anyone here would seriously argue that severe depression isn't a disease. But, were it not for depression, many great people would never have achieved their greatness-Abraham Lincoln comes to mind here. I think most of us here would call obsessive-compulsive disorder a disease, yet it's pushed a lot of people to do incredible things. I think we'd all agree that autism is a disease...but it's contributed to the development of many brilliant minds. (I cringe to use the rain man example...but here we go, it's been used) I can think of a few situations where ADHD could be pretty advantageous. (I like to do improv comedy sometimes, and man having ADHD would help a lot) But most people agree ADHD is a disease. See what I'm driving at? Just because something is a disease doesn't mean it's all bad. Personally, if I could take a magic pill to gain sight, and if the re-training process wouldn't be too complicated (scientific evidence is conflicted here so I don't know if that's practical), I totally would take it! Having sight would be a great advantage- at least an advantage worth having if the cost/benifit ratio was reasonable. Blindness is the lack of sight. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to have an ability instead of lack it. I think sometimes we downplay the fact that blindness is a disability and try and undermine the usefulness of sight...but I tell you what, sight would be dang useful. If I could get it, and learn to use it without too much cost in time or money...why the heck not? Warmest regards, Kirt On 4/29/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > Are these two views really mutually exclusive? > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:14 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Hello all, > > This is an interesting discussion, so I thought I'd pop in for a minute. > > This question goes, at the root of it, to how you view disability. If you > view it as an aspect that creates diversity, then erasing it would be like > erasing races or different languages. If you view disability as a disease, > then logically the first response would be to want to cure it. > > What do you guys think? > > Briley > On Apr 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Arielle: >> I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of many things > that make up an individual, >> and in a world where genetics would be preprogramed, >> it just be too perfect. >> It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial. >> I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which blindness and > other disabilities are completely eradicated would just be too artificial, >> almost like we literally managed to create our own world in a way. >> >> Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who were born > cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so to speak. >> Of course, >> I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold world in which science would > create people which I hope would never happen but its a good talking point > anyway. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>> world as a whole? >>> >>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>> to accomplish life tasks? >>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>> could fully function without light. >>> >>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From lily2011a at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 04:32:51 2011 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 00:32:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110429020254.30701.50383@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: hi, I am a new subscriber to NABS. I was grasped by this discussion when I recieved this email and thought to share a little something with you all. First, I lost my sight at age 4 due to retina blostoma a cancer of the retinas. To make long story short I was diagnosed with a 2ndary cancer at age 13. Then I was diagnosed with austio molitus an infection of the bone in my sinus area. I underwent a lot of surgery and kemo therapy. Also, the radiation to treat my primary cancer when I was a little thing had caused me to get my 2nd cancer 9 years later. Blindness never bothered me as much when I was Yunger, but now being 18 a senior in high school, I wish I could have my sight back. Ever since my second cancer, I've had moments where I had gotten upset over being blind. Sure, I try to joke it off with my friends, that is sighted and blind ones, but still inside I am broken up over my vision loss. I remember seeing though colors and such. One theory I've postulated and came up with is that usually blind people who are born blind don't want their vision as much as the people who had lost their sight. Anyone agree or disagree? I have just seen these views from people who have been blind since birth and ones who have lost their sight in the past. P.S. This is off topic, but I've been wanting to ask. I am going to Rutgers University for college next year. Have any of you attended Rutgers or are currently attending? If so, what are your views on the university and how high would you rate their disabillities program? Thanks all. Liliya Asadullina A K A. (Lily) On 4/28/11, Jedi wrote: > But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look > like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other > grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so > has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll > talk to them first before judging them. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Original message: >> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot >> judge >> people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me. >> Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not all >> of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a person >> looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can ignore >> appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Freeman" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > >>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they >>> just >>> taking advantage of a group that exists? And the fact that blindness >>> caused >>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in the >>> future. > >>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR work, >>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving* >>> blindness. After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative. Does >>> this >>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the >>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia? Before you reflexively say "yes". >>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does. I'm not saying blindness >>> causes >>> harm; it doesn't. but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't see >>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself. > >>> Mike > > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Jedi >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > >>> Arielle, > >>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more >>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example, >>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all >>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by >>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that >>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a >>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create >>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning >>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of >>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind. >>> Text-to-speech is another example; we now use TTS for a variety of >>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness. > >>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us >>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the universe and there >>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in >>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy >>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the >>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the >>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has >>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted >>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we >>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of >>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and >>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them >>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of >>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird >>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in >>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than >>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who >>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question >>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the >>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would >>> not learn nearly as much as we have. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Hi all, > >>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>>> world as a whole? > >>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>>> to accomplish life tasks? >>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>>> could fully function without light. > >>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. > >>>> Arielle > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net > >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 09:12:43 2011 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 04:12:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ashley, You are aware that the braille note can act as a display for your computer with a screen reader right? Dezman On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:08 PM, wrote: > Hi all, > > I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government > organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they > have the funds for it. > But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? > > Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the > reality of them. > I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display > via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation and > spelling you miss with speech. > > So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? > What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is it > like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the > touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they > need maintenance? > If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? > Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean > does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If > not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? > > > Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. > > I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The braille > is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! > > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > -- Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB From k7uij at panix.com Sat Apr 30 15:27:29 2011 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 08:27:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. In-Reply-To: References: <1EA35703-14BA-4CD5-B08B-12E5F3F34D18@gmail.com> <00aa01cc06e6$1d8ee310$58aca930$@panix.com> Message-ID: <001801cc074b$1ed92270$5c8b6750$@panix.com> Kirt: You hit the nail on the head. We don't have to devalue sight in order to think ourselves OK or to believe that blindness can in most cases be reduced to the level of an inconvenience or nuisance. If for no other reason than that the majority is sighted, it would be easier for us were we somehow to magically regain our sight without complications or inconvenience. I submit that since this is unlikely to occur for most of us for quite some time, if ever, the discussion is academic and, as I've said, is in the nature of trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I think it's quite possible to believe that sight would be of assistance while at the same time believing as we do that blindness isn't a show-stopper. The key is to realize that blindness doesn't hinder us from doing the things that most believe matter in life nor does it hinder us from competing on equal terms with the sighted on average given training and opportunity. One doesn't need to poo-poo the beauty of a sunset to realize that one can get along without sunsets. For an analogous situation, consider the person (blind or sighted) who is tone-deaf or, like U.S. Grant was reputed to have said, thinks there are only two songs in the world: "One is Yankee Doodle; the other isn't!". No one would say Gen. Grant didn't succeed at his chosen profession. Yet few would deny that music is a joy. As to the eye-contact thing, it's foolish to say it doesn't matter. Everyone from President Maurer on down has complained about people speaking to our sighted companions rather than to us. To us it is stupid and smacks of considering us objects or, at best, little children. While there's certainly a good deal to be said for the proposition that people think blindness equals witlessness, I also think that a good part of our problem is that we don't make eye contact and people can't figure out how to make eye contact with us or how to socially interact with us without eye contact. In essence, it's the problem of the sighted not being inventive, not of our lack of the ability to make eye contact. But in the real world, how and why it happens doesn't matter. We have to learn to do without it and the fact is that it can be done. That doesn't make us inferior; it just means that we don't have a commonly-available tool in our social arsenal. Everyone has certain gaps in skills. Yet when very few have one lack -- eyesight -- and the rest of the world presumes everyone has it, we who have the lack must make adjustments. That doesn't make us not OK nor is this saying that blindness isn't a characteristic like any other. I'll close this tome by observing that if we had sight, we wouldn't have to worry about the cost of braille displays or inaccessible websites. Now, since we're all blind, I submit that we've about typed this topic to death! Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 9:01 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. Chris, Eye contact really *is* that important. I think a good case can be made that people communicate more by body language than by speaking- although it's certainly debatable. Nicole...I think sighted people go by muscle memory as much as we do after they know where things are. Most really efficint typists (or is it keyboarders?) don't look at the keys. Most talented athletes depend on muscle memory. Think free throw shots, golf swings, hitting a baseball where you want it to go, throwing someone in judo or pining in wrestling...that's all muscle memory. And sighted people use it all the time in daily life...I really don't think we have the edge there but does it really matter? Mike...I agree with you. Blindness to me is a disease- not a debilitating disease, a disease that can become a minor inconvenience once I get the right training, but a disease nonetheless. Byut that doesn't mean it hasn't contributed to a lot of good in the world and increased diversity. I don't think anyone here would seriously argue that severe depression isn't a disease. But, were it not for depression, many great people would never have achieved their greatness-Abraham Lincoln comes to mind here. I think most of us here would call obsessive-compulsive disorder a disease, yet it's pushed a lot of people to do incredible things. I think we'd all agree that autism is a disease...but it's contributed to the development of many brilliant minds. (I cringe to use the rain man example...but here we go, it's been used) I can think of a few situations where ADHD could be pretty advantageous. (I like to do improv comedy sometimes, and man having ADHD would help a lot) But most people agree ADHD is a disease. See what I'm driving at? Just because something is a disease doesn't mean it's all bad. Personally, if I could take a magic pill to gain sight, and if the re-training process wouldn't be too complicated (scientific evidence is conflicted here so I don't know if that's practical), I totally would take it! Having sight would be a great advantage- at least an advantage worth having if the cost/benifit ratio was reasonable. Blindness is the lack of sight. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to have an ability instead of lack it. I think sometimes we downplay the fact that blindness is a disability and try and undermine the usefulness of sight...but I tell you what, sight would be dang useful. If I could get it, and learn to use it without too much cost in time or money...why the heck not? Warmest regards, Kirt On 4/29/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > Are these two views really mutually exclusive? > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:14 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted.. > > Hello all, > > This is an interesting discussion, so I thought I'd pop in for a minute. > > This question goes, at the root of it, to how you view disability. If you > view it as an aspect that creates diversity, then erasing it would be like > erasing races or different languages. If you view disability as a disease, > then logically the first response would be to want to cure it. > > What do you guys think? > > Briley > On Apr 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Arielle: >> I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of many things > that make up an individual, >> and in a world where genetics would be preprogramed, >> it just be too perfect. >> It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial. >> I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which blindness and > other disabilities are completely eradicated would just be too artificial, >> almost like we literally managed to create our own world in a way. >> >> Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who were born > cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so to speak. >> Of course, >> I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold world in which science would > create people which I hope would never happen but its a good talking point > anyway. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our >>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be >>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me >>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question: >>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if >>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering >>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness? >>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers, >>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of >>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the >>> world as a whole? >>> >>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society >>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These >>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted >>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of >>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal >>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less >>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques >>> to accomplish life tasks? >>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use >>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology >>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision >>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck >>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members >>> could fully function without light. >>> >>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of >>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function? >>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that, >>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 15:47:08 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:47:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My article that is in the Sounding Board! Message-ID: <4dbc2f12.5069e50a.6d68.7246@mx.google.com> Hi,=20Rania. Thanks=20for=20sharing=20this=20article=20and=20good=20for=20you=20for=20tr= ying=20and=20 achieving=20your=20dream=20despite=20negativity=20from=20others!=20It=20sai= d=20in=20 the=20article=20that=20you=20took=20a=20training=20course=20at=20Blind=20In= dustries=20 and=20Services=20of=20Maryland=20(BISM.)=20So,=20are=20you=20from=20Marylan= d=20and=20is=20 that=20affiliate=20the=20editor=20talks=20about=20Maryland=20or=20New=20Jer= sey?=20If=20 you=20are=20from=20Maryland=20and=20are=20a=20member=20of=20the=20Maryland= =20state=20 aphiliate,=20I=20am,=20too!=20See=20you=20at=20the=20convention! P.S.=20=20You=20know=20that=20quote=20in=20my=20signature,=20"A=20loss=20of= =20sight,=20 never=20a=20loss=20of=20vision"?=20I=20think by=20that=20story,=20you=20define=20that=20statement=20very=20well! Chris=20Nusbaum "A=20loss=20of=20sight,=20never=20a=20loss=20of=20vision!"=20(Camp=20Abilit= ies=20motto) =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20Rania=20Ismail=20 References: <4dbb4670.0d1e2a0a.6dfa.ffff8869SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <24F7C8B9-D09B-40F6-B423-28B202D2136E@gmail.com> Exactly. And if you still don't like that, you can simply use the mobile site m.facebook.com. You can do most things on it and JFW will probably like it a lot better. IC On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > With Facebook, a lot of things appear at the bottom of the screen > after all of the wall stuff. If you click on friends, that's where > they appear. If all of them don't, then there will be a see more link. > This is true with events too if you want to see who is attending, > maybe attending, etc, and with photos. If you click on a photo in > someone's album to comment on, it won't go to a separate page, but > appear at the bottom. The mobile site is great. I prefer it to look at > the news feed, but when you click on someone's friends, you can only > see 10 at a time, and sometimes after clicking through a few pages of > friends it will cease having a see more link. So to me, it is only > helpful if you know the name of the frend of a friend you are looking > for. > > Cindy > > On 4/29/11, dreicer, zachary wrote: >> im not sure on that, but friend me using this email address! >> >> Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" > To: "NABS-L" > Date sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:42:09 -0700 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem >> >> Okay, sorry if this is a tiny bit off topic, but I'm having >> problems with JAWS and facebook. When I go to another person's >> profile and view their friends, I cannot find a way to make it >> display more than just ten of that person's friend. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/z.dreicer >> %40emissives.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > UNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 17:38:56 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:38:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem In-Reply-To: References: <9A095A61CCA743E689F5BA6D3DC9FD42@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <672528D8-8EF6-4D53-A72D-626E2CC124F3@gmail.com> When you click on friends on the mobile version you can either browse them the way you do, or use the search field to find whoever you are looking for. On Apr 29, 2011, at 6:56 PM, Ian Perrault wrote: > > Good point. I use the mobile version, m.facebook.com, and in order to find a friend of someone that begins with l, for example, I have to keep hitting see more friends until I get to the L's! Any way to speed up the searching process? > > -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:42 PM > To: NABS-L > Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem > > Okay, sorry if this is a tiny bit off topic, but I'm having problems with JAWS and facebook. When I go to another person's profile and view their friends, I cannot find a way to make it display more than just ten of that person's friend. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iperrault%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 19:45:54 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:45:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] OT: Two Windows Live Mail Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8378675B78B44D5CBA965614509810EA@audioaccess1PC> I mean Windows Live Mail 2011. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:05 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OT: Two Windows Live Mail Questions Hi Dave, Do you really mean Windows Mail or Windows Live Mail? I believe Windows Mail was only available with Vista. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 05:03:58 -0400, David Dunphy wrote: >Hi All! >I'm trying out Windows Mail for an email client, as I've had difficulties >with Outlook and ThunderBird doing things. But I have two questions: >1. Is there a preferences or options section one can access with Windows >Mail? All I seem to be able to get to is the ribbons, and I want to be able >to tell the program if I want the thing to check email automatically, how >often, etc? >2. I wanted to jump to my sent items folder, so I hit Control Y, went down >to sent items for my specific email account and hit enter. Yet, it was >still >displaying my inbox and not the sent items. Any clue how to fix this? >Thanks for anyone suggestions anyone is willing to provide. If you'd rather >respond off list, my email is >djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >Just a side note.. The last conference call recording is going to be >available shortly, I'm just away at the moment and had to do a laptop >computer format after my user profiele got corrupted and I couldn't log in >(lucky me, right?) so I'll have that for you soon. >Best to All, >>From David >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 20:16:20 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:16:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ashley, Answering your questions as best as I can... I can also type using the display's eight keys at the top. I press right shift + left shift + space bar to enter typing mode, then I start typing. This is also useful for finding words within a file (right shift + f, I think) and typing in the search box of the start menu (ST contraction, and typing mode is already on). I can type in grade 1 Braille, and it will be readable as print on the screen...or I can type in grade 2 Braille and it'll be in translated Braille in the document, which means I can write directly into Duxbury with contracte Braille and emboss my work. I can also type in contracted Braille then print on the printer using a program called WinPrint, available for free from Freedom Scientific. You asked if it moved the cursor on the scrreen or just on the display. Teh answer is both. You can toggle the following using NavRow keys or hotkeys on the display: 1. Active cursor follows Braille cursor, 2. Braille cursor follows active cursor. So, if you are using the keyboard, the Braille can follow so that you can use primarily speech and check words on the Braille as needed. Also, you can have the active cursor follow the Braille cursor, so when you want to hear the word read out, you'll be there. You can also toggle either off You say that I must be very lucky that rehab bought it for me. Yes, I feel quite lucky. Betwen the Braille display and the embosser, I am able to read most anything in Braille. I emboss mantras and prayers for temple (I attend a Buddhist service), I can emboss lesson plans and activities for the children's program at the temple, I can read digital braille books (I like this, because the Braille never gets squished because the cat sat on it...:P), and so much more. It allows me to do much of my own work for school, instead of waiting for the disability office to decide to emboss parts of my textbook or worksheets or other stuff. I can do it for myself. Yes, I type in grade 2 Braille, and I use what they call convenience commands (hotkeys, in my mind) to use the display's keys as a keyboard. For example, l (dots 1, 2, and 3) sends a command to the keyboard to go to the top of the file, while the far left button on the bottom plus the rocker bar up sends a home command, and the far left button plus the left shift is another way to go to the top of the file. You asked how I tell where the paragraphs are on the display. If there is an indent at the beginning of the paragraph, there will be an indent on the display at the beginning of the paragraph. This also helps when I'm composing an essay, to tell me if I indented at the beginning of the paragraph or not. You also asked about bold and other changes made to the text. I haven't fully explored this y et, but I did see the Braille sign for italics in a file (dots 4, 6). I am pretty sure there are different computer braille signs for bold, underline, etc. I'm not 100 percent sure, though. You asked my Braille reading speed. I am actually very slow with Braille. I type on the QWERTY keyboard at 80 wpm, but about half that on the Braille 6-dot keyboard. I read at a snail pace of 60 wpm. I have only been reading Braille for a little m ore than 2 years, but I improve all the time because I use Braille everywhere and for almost everything. I believe Braille is the most efficient way to do things once I get faster, and so I practice all the time and read Braille several times a day, spending hours at a time reading or writing in Braille. The only way to get better is to practice, practice, practice! If you do a Google search for Focus 40 User's Guide, you should find the user's guide in accessible PDF. I recommend reading that to get a good idea of what the Focus 40 can do. The user's guide has tables of the convenience commands which essentially allow you to use the display as an output and input device (output: Braille on bottom, input: 8 keys at top can be used for grade 2 or computer Braille code). Oh, someone also asked about Word problems. I've not come across the problem you spoke about, where you couldn't move by line without using the wizwheel. You might want to contact Freedom Scientific and see if they can help you figure out what's going on. ~Jewel On 4/30/11, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Ashley, > > You are aware that the braille note can act as a display for your computer > with a screen reader right? > > Dezman > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:08 PM, wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >> have the funds for it. >> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >> >> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >> reality of them. >> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation and >> spelling you miss with speech. >> >> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >> it >> like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >> need maintenance? >> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >> >> >> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >> >> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The braille >> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >> >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 21:15:00 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:15:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Answering questions from Chris Nusbaum and for anyone else interested in massage therapy! Message-ID: Hi I live in New Jersey. I attended Bism before I started my journey of becoming a massage therapist. I really like your quote! Thanks for useing me as an example to define your quote! I believe that anyone can do what ever they want as long as they put there mind to it, and never give up until they try! If Anyone on the list is interested in talking to me about this, you can find me on facebook under Rania Ismail CMT or email me off list at this address. Rania, From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Apr 30 21:16:45 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:16:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jewel, So you type in grade 2 braille. Do you have to be in Duxbury to do this? You cannot just type in MS Word in grade 2 braille right? I assume that as you type, you are inputting the text on the screen. But if you type traditionally on the qwerty keyboard, does the display immediately show what you typed in contracted braille? I mean is it that good that it automatically translates the standard text to grade 2 braille immediately? User's guide? Is that on FS website? I might see it sometime. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Ashley, Answering your questions as best as I can... I can also type using the display's eight keys at the top. I press right shift + left shift + space bar to enter typing mode, then I start typing. This is also useful for finding words within a file (right shift + f, I think) and typing in the search box of the start menu (ST contraction, and typing mode is already on). I can type in grade 1 Braille, and it will be readable as print on the screen...or I can type in grade 2 Braille and it'll be in translated Braille in the document, which means I can write directly into Duxbury with contracte Braille and emboss my work. I can also type in contracted Braille then print on the printer using a program called WinPrint, available for free from Freedom Scientific. You asked if it moved the cursor on the scrreen or just on the display. Teh answer is both. You can toggle the following using NavRow keys or hotkeys on the display: 1. Active cursor follows Braille cursor, 2. Braille cursor follows active cursor. So, if you are using the keyboard, the Braille can follow so that you can use primarily speech and check words on the Braille as needed. Also, you can have the active cursor follow the Braille cursor, so when you want to hear the word read out, you'll be there. You can also toggle either off You say that I must be very lucky that rehab bought it for me. Yes, I feel quite lucky. Betwen the Braille display and the embosser, I am able to read most anything in Braille. I emboss mantras and prayers for temple (I attend a Buddhist service), I can emboss lesson plans and activities for the children's program at the temple, I can read digital braille books (I like this, because the Braille never gets squished because the cat sat on it...:P), and so much more. It allows me to do much of my own work for school, instead of waiting for the disability office to decide to emboss parts of my textbook or worksheets or other stuff. I can do it for myself. Yes, I type in grade 2 Braille, and I use what they call convenience commands (hotkeys, in my mind) to use the display's keys as a keyboard. For example, l (dots 1, 2, and 3) sends a command to the keyboard to go to the top of the file, while the far left button on the bottom plus the rocker bar up sends a home command, and the far left button plus the left shift is another way to go to the top of the file. You asked how I tell where the paragraphs are on the display. If there is an indent at the beginning of the paragraph, there will be an indent on the display at the beginning of the paragraph. This also helps when I'm composing an essay, to tell me if I indented at the beginning of the paragraph or not. You also asked about bold and other changes made to the text. I haven't fully explored this y et, but I did see the Braille sign for italics in a file (dots 4, 6). I am pretty sure there are different computer braille signs for bold, underline, etc. I'm not 100 percent sure, though. You asked my Braille reading speed. I am actually very slow with Braille. I type on the QWERTY keyboard at 80 wpm, but about half that on the Braille 6-dot keyboard. I read at a snail pace of 60 wpm. I have only been reading Braille for a little m ore than 2 years, but I improve all the time because I use Braille everywhere and for almost everything. I believe Braille is the most efficient way to do things once I get faster, and so I practice all the time and read Braille several times a day, spending hours at a time reading or writing in Braille. The only way to get better is to practice, practice, practice! If you do a Google search for Focus 40 User's Guide, you should find the user's guide in accessible PDF. I recommend reading that to get a good idea of what the Focus 40 can do. The user's guide has tables of the convenience commands which essentially allow you to use the display as an output and input device (output: Braille on bottom, input: 8 keys at top can be used for grade 2 or computer Braille code). Oh, someone also asked about Word problems. I've not come across the problem you spoke about, where you couldn't move by line without using the wizwheel. You might want to contact Freedom Scientific and see if they can help you figure out what's going on. ~Jewel On 4/30/11, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Ashley, > > You are aware that the braille note can act as a display for your computer > with a screen reader right? > > Dezman > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:08 PM, wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >> have the funds for it. >> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >> >> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >> reality of them. >> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >> and >> spelling you miss with speech. >> >> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >> it >> like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >> need maintenance? >> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >> >> >> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >> >> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >> braille >> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >> >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Apr 30 21:23:31 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:23:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] braille displays References: Message-ID: Yes, it translates immediately. It just like if you're in a text file on the BrailleNote, but you have the reading grade set to Grade 2. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Jewel, So you type in grade 2 braille. Do you have to be in Duxbury to do this? You cannot just type in MS Word in grade 2 braille right? I assume that as you type, you are inputting the text on the screen. But if you type traditionally on the qwerty keyboard, does the display immediately show what you typed in contracted braille? I mean is it that good that it automatically translates the standard text to grade 2 braille immediately? User's guide? Is that on FS website? I might see it sometime. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille displays Ashley, Answering your questions as best as I can... I can also type using the display's eight keys at the top. I press right shift + left shift + space bar to enter typing mode, then I start typing. This is also useful for finding words within a file (right shift + f, I think) and typing in the search box of the start menu (ST contraction, and typing mode is already on). I can type in grade 1 Braille, and it will be readable as print on the screen...or I can type in grade 2 Braille and it'll be in translated Braille in the document, which means I can write directly into Duxbury with contracte Braille and emboss my work. I can also type in contracted Braille then print on the printer using a program called WinPrint, available for free from Freedom Scientific. You asked if it moved the cursor on the scrreen or just on the display. Teh answer is both. You can toggle the following using NavRow keys or hotkeys on the display: 1. Active cursor follows Braille cursor, 2. Braille cursor follows active cursor. So, if you are using the keyboard, the Braille can follow so that you can use primarily speech and check words on the Braille as needed. Also, you can have the active cursor follow the Braille cursor, so when you want to hear the word read out, you'll be there. You can also toggle either off You say that I must be very lucky that rehab bought it for me. Yes, I feel quite lucky. Betwen the Braille display and the embosser, I am able to read most anything in Braille. I emboss mantras and prayers for temple (I attend a Buddhist service), I can emboss lesson plans and activities for the children's program at the temple, I can read digital braille books (I like this, because the Braille never gets squished because the cat sat on it...:P), and so much more. It allows me to do much of my own work for school, instead of waiting for the disability office to decide to emboss parts of my textbook or worksheets or other stuff. I can do it for myself. Yes, I type in grade 2 Braille, and I use what they call convenience commands (hotkeys, in my mind) to use the display's keys as a keyboard. For example, l (dots 1, 2, and 3) sends a command to the keyboard to go to the top of the file, while the far left button on the bottom plus the rocker bar up sends a home command, and the far left button plus the left shift is another way to go to the top of the file. You asked how I tell where the paragraphs are on the display. If there is an indent at the beginning of the paragraph, there will be an indent on the display at the beginning of the paragraph. This also helps when I'm composing an essay, to tell me if I indented at the beginning of the paragraph or not. You also asked about bold and other changes made to the text. I haven't fully explored this y et, but I did see the Braille sign for italics in a file (dots 4, 6). I am pretty sure there are different computer braille signs for bold, underline, etc. I'm not 100 percent sure, though. You asked my Braille reading speed. I am actually very slow with Braille. I type on the QWERTY keyboard at 80 wpm, but about half that on the Braille 6-dot keyboard. I read at a snail pace of 60 wpm. I have only been reading Braille for a little m ore than 2 years, but I improve all the time because I use Braille everywhere and for almost everything. I believe Braille is the most efficient way to do things once I get faster, and so I practice all the time and read Braille several times a day, spending hours at a time reading or writing in Braille. The only way to get better is to practice, practice, practice! If you do a Google search for Focus 40 User's Guide, you should find the user's guide in accessible PDF. I recommend reading that to get a good idea of what the Focus 40 can do. The user's guide has tables of the convenience commands which essentially allow you to use the display as an output and input device (output: Braille on bottom, input: 8 keys at top can be used for grade 2 or computer Braille code). Oh, someone also asked about Word problems. I've not come across the problem you spoke about, where you couldn't move by line without using the wizwheel. You might want to contact Freedom Scientific and see if they can help you figure out what's going on. ~Jewel On 4/30/11, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Ashley, > > You are aware that the braille note can act as a display for your computer > with a screen reader right? > > Dezman > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:08 PM, wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I’d love to have a braille display. If I work for a government >> organization or contractor, they will likely purchase one for me as they >> have the funds for it. >> But privately, I don’t know. Isn’t the typical display $3000? >> >> Anyway, as I dream of what I think its benefits are, I’d like to know the >> reality of them. >> I’m not an auditory person and I’ve just thought that reading the display >> via the computer will afford me the opportunity to see the punctuation >> and >> spelling you miss with speech. >> >> So for those of you who use displays, what are your thoughts? >> What display do you have? How does it work? What are the benefits? Is >> it >> like the Brialle Note display where the cursor can be moved at the >> touch of a button? Do the pins stay duravle? If not, how often do they >> need maintenance? >> If you buy a display to work with jaws, is it hard to install? >> Also, can the display show you grade 2 braille in text documents? I mean >> does it automatically convert to grade 2 braille even though its text? If >> not, do you have to convert to .brf to run it? >> >> >> Any pros and cons, I’d like to hear. >> >> I have the display on the Braille Note and do not use speech. The >> braille >> is quiet and works so much more efficiently for me! >> >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 21:39:08 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:39:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness Message-ID: <4dbc8191.5069e50a.6d68.7835@mx.google.com> Hi, Nicole. That's exactly what the NFB is working on. The law, or bill as it is now, is called the Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind. It mandates that all consumer technology, household appliances, and office equipment be accessible to the blind through nonvisual means. Recently, I was at an NFB program called the Leadership and Advocacy in Washington (LAW) Program. We learned a lot about the bill and went to Capitol Hill and talked to several Congresspeople about the bill, trying to get them to cosponsor it. The Technology Bill of Rights hasn't been introduced in the House in the new Congress session, since it became dead in committee in the last Congress session. Check out nfb.org for more info! Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 21:42:14 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:42:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook Problem Message-ID: <4dbc824c.0ac6e60a.49f1.4dd6@mx.google.com> Zachary, how did you set up the thing where it says "sent from my Braillenote Apex" in your emails? Is that a new thing with KS 9.1? Chris Nusbaum "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sat Apr 30 22:53:03 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:53:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New Technology and Blindness In-Reply-To: <4dbc8191.5069e50a.6d68.7835@mx.google.com> References: <4dbc8191.5069e50a.6d68.7835@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <820F2CF6-10C6-4C45-A532-CD04DCCA1204@gmail.com> Hi Chris, just wanna say nice job in the program and thanks for helping. I was there last year as one of the members too. Really feels good when you can do something like that doesn't it? Jorge On Apr 30, 2011, at 5:39 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi, Nicole. > > That's exactly what the NFB is working on. The law, or bill as it is now, is called the Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind. It mandates that all consumer technology, household appliances, and office equipment be accessible to the blind through nonvisual means. Recently, I was at an NFB program called the Leadership and Advocacy in Washington (LAW) Program. We learned a lot about the bill and went to Capitol Hill and talked to several Congresspeople about the bill, trying to get them to cosponsor it. The Technology Bill of Rights hasn't been introduced in the House in the new Congress session, since it became dead in committee in the last Congress session. Check out nfb.org for more info! > > Chris Nusbaum > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com