[nabs-l] Hand outs etc.

Fri Apr 1 20:22:35 UTC 2011

Hi all,
I do what I can to keep up.
You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that 
scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables and 
sometimes on colored paper.

I do indeed do things myself.  But why don't I have the right to have a 
level playing field?
I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but
I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information. 
Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on 
lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an issue.
Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so 
many classes he doesn't respond to emails.

I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed upon 
accomodation is not unreasonable.
I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access?  I was in a 
journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in groups. 
I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this was 
not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me 
in class.
So I advocated and had it read to me!  But had I had it ahead of time I 
wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading.
We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear us. 
Then we came back
and I joined my group.  I believe that such accomodations help us and we can 
compete equally then.
Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in 
accessible format?

Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing.
You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need to 
be accessible and other course content and then do not support something 
like accessible handouts.
Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps, and 
have a reader read you inaccessible content.
Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc.

First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling
our own assignments and materials.  As students, we need to be
responsible.  If you have access to the technology, scanning material,
searching for material and staying current with new options for
accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work.  Yes,
there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is
generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary.

Instructors have a lot on their plate.  They are teaching multiple
classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which
involves families and activities.  And, professors must continue to
publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are
doing their own research and work.

To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what
they need to do for you.  If you feel you are not receiving material in
time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital
information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either
in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns.  Even if you
have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will
still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or
PP presentations.

Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how
often have you contacted the instructor?  Either via email or in person?
And have you been specific in what you require?  In my experience, if I
do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it
is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot,
and I did not remind them.  Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not
the only student that instructor has to think about.  *smile*

And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone
has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions
especially if the material is not accessible.  This lack of
communication falls on you.  The next time an instructor does this, just
ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet,
and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies.

I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your
own notes.  Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I
took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never
encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not
follow along with a lecture and PP slides.

I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material.  I too take
print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies.
And as a creative writing major taking studios based around
workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan
student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic
copies.  Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I
needed on time.  And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a
situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the
material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and
other formatting issues.

It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful
in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have
what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work.  Is
it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for
sighted students?  No.  And should schools provide everything and
anything we need on time and accessibly?  Yes.  The truth is, though,
that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to
everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it
isn't fair.  And how proactive are we being?  Don't let others be the
middle man with your academic life-- well, just life.  Do as much as you
can on your own.

I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to
keep tabs on what I need and when I need it.  In fact, my DSO requires
students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need.
Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course
material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO.
Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been
seeking textbooks out on my own when I can.

I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning.  I prefer to do
it on my own.  And I actually tell professors to do everything the way
they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class
are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this.  This includes
requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent
electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures
or discussions.

I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting
on a trend I see among too many students.  Life isn't fair nor is it
perfect.  This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not.

As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves
and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more
work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for
us.

Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and
there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services
essential for us as students.  In my experience, though, I see too many
students fail to understand the part they should play in their life.  We
have to verbalize every need.  Do not expect others to know, or
understand, what you need, especially instructors.  They should comply
and be willing to help, but they are only human.  Communicate your
specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time.

Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student.  Learn to
rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is
life.  If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or
communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation.
Have you done everything necessary on your end?  Trust me, this will
make you a much happier student.

If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are
in the workforce.  *smile*

Bridgit

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500
From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc.
Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me
what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have
the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long
books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I
did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how
horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could
have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base
here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves
if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it
isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the
thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while
we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it
actually exists.

Sean

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