[nabs-l] Hand outs etc.

[Kirt Manwaring]

Ashley,
  I think you raise a very good point with the inaccessible web sites.
 And I'd say yes, as long as the sites aren't accessible and we need
to use them, we do what we need to.  I've had to have roommates and
friends help read me inaccessible stuff before...is it fair, no.
Should we push to make things more accessible and equal?  Of course.
But they aren't, and we do need to deal with that.  In lots of ways
the deck is stacked against us as blind students- we need to do extra
to get our materials, etc.  It's not right, it's not fair, it's life.
  And yeah, getting stuff from professors is, I think, the best option
when they already have the dang thing in electronic format.  But if
they aren't responding, I think it's up to you to solve the situation
however you have to.  And it'll probably involve a lot of figurative
blood, sweat and tears.  That, unfortunately, is the way it works.  It
shouldn't be...we should have equal access.  We're fighting for equal
access.  We have more equal access than the blind college students 20
years ago.  But it's still not equal, and if we're going to succeed we
have to work harder than the average student, spend lots more extra
time than the average student, get more help than the average student,
find more solutions than the average student...in short, we're gonna
have a rougher go of it than the average student.  It's not right, but
the sooner we get used to it the sooner we'll succeed.
  Equal access is a worthy goal- I think an attainable goal, but we're
not there yet.  so, unfortunately, that means we're fighting an uphill
battle and we have to work even harder.
  Sorry for my rant.  This is just what I've been realizing as I've
been struggling through college and having a harder time than I
thought I would.
  Best,
Kirt

On 4/1/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
> In Ashley's defense, she did say she would scan the material in her
> original message. I don't think anyone has recently said they are
> completely unwilling to go the extra step in class, which makes me
> question why everyone is jumping on the scan your documents bandwagon.
>
> I don't use disability services for documents and I've hand-scanned my
> own documents when necessary. The key here is that students need to be
> required to do whatever it takes to be successful or keep up. This may
> include scanning your own stuff if that's the only way you can compete
> with your classmates and follow along in class. But if someone has a
> copy of what you need somewhere, you should advocate for yourself and
> get it. Why should Ashley spend time scanning papers when a copy in
> word or pdf already exists? Why should Ashley take extra time out of
> her already busy schedule to create access to something that is
> already in an accessible format?
>
> I recently wanted to read a book from a 20-something traveler who
> spent time backpacking around Latin America with no money. I couldn't
> find the book anywhere in an electronic format, and trust me,
> "anywhere" includes everywhere. Did I buy the book and scan it myself?
> Not at all. I Facebooked the author and asked him if he could send me
> the pdf. He was glad to send a copy, and we e-mailed back and forth
> for a while.
>
> Advocating for yourself and asking a professor to quickly send you a
> pdf of a handout that already exists in an electronic format isn't
> being lazy at all.
>
> It's being smart.
>
> Brice
>
> On 4/1/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I do what I can to keep up.
>> You all don't seem to understand the situation and you all think that
>> scanning solves the problems. I reiterate that some of these are tables
>> and
>> sometimes on colored paper.
>>
>> I do indeed do things myself.  But why don't I have the right to have a
>> level playing field?
>> I have this accomodation. Yes not only do I speak to the profs but
>> I also remind them either in email or after class to send me information.
>> Most professors have been good in the past; in fact most classes rely on
>> lecture/discussion so handouts and print matterial are really not an
>> issue.
>> Yes there is a breakdown of communication because one professor teaches so
>> many classes he doesn't respond to emails.
>>
>> I think school is hard enough that asking for them to follow an agreed
>> upon
>> accomodation is not unreasonable.
>> I mean I pay the same tuition, so why can't I have equal access?  I was in
>> a
>> journalism class and I remember handouts being passed out to read in
>> groups.
>> I think we were supposed to pick out the lead or something. Anyway, this
>> was
>> not accessible and reading two or three days later frankly doesn't help me
>> in class.
>> So I advocated and had it read to me!  But had I had it ahead of time I
>> wouldn't have had to be taken out of class for this reading.
>> We left class because it would be disturbing for other students to hear
>> us.
>> Then we came back
>> and I joined my group.  I believe that such accomodations help us and we
>> can
>> compete equally then.
>> Also, isn't in the ADA and other civil rights laws we should have stuff in
>> accessible format?
>>
>> Well, if we disagree oh well. I won't waste my time arguing.
>> You NFB students really send mixed messages when you think websites need
>> to
>> be accessible and other course content and then do not support something
>> like accessible handouts.
>> Well, the same logic applies. Well, you can work harder, do extra steps,
>> and
>> have a reader read you inaccessible content.
>> Then for inaccessible documents, we can just scan them all.
>>
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:36 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Hand outs etc.
>>
>> First, I agree with Sean and others about being prepared and handling
>> our own assignments and materials.  As students, we need to be
>> responsible.  If you have access to the technology, scanning material,
>> searching for material and staying current with new options for
>> accessibility, it is not always that tedious to do your own work.  Yes,
>> there are times when this is not feasible, but, in my experience, it is
>> generally not that difficult, and it is often necessary.
>>
>> Instructors have a lot on their plate.  They are teaching multiple
>> classes with multiple students on top of their personal life which
>> involves families and activities.  And, professors must continue to
>> publish especially those working towards tenure, which means they are
>> doing their own research and work.
>>
>> To be frank, it is not an instructors responsibility to remember what
>> they need to do for you.  If you feel you are not receiving material in
>> time, or in proper formats, or you think you are lacking vital
>> information, it is your responsibility to contact the professor, either
>> in or out of class, and express your needs and concerns.  Even if you
>> have stipulated your needs in the beginning of the semester, you will
>> still need to remind them especially if there are lots of hand outs or
>> PP presentations.
>>
>> Ashley- you say there is a lack of communication in your class, but how
>> often have you contacted the instructor?  Either via email or in person?
>> And have you been specific in what you require?  In my experience, if I
>> do not receive print material on time or in an inaccessible format, it
>> is because I have not requested this, or the instructor simply forgot,
>> and I did not remind them.  Again, as wonderful as I may be, I am not
>> the only student that instructor has to think about.  *smile*
>>
>> And you say the professor will hand out print material and ask if anyone
>> has questions, but it is your right as a student to ask questions
>> especially if the material is not accessible.  This lack of
>> communication falls on you.  The next time an instructor does this, just
>> ask for some clarification since you don't have an accessible copy yet,
>> and this may also cue the professor to send you electronic copies.
>>
>> I agree that Powerpoint slides and lecture notes merely supplement your
>> own notes.  Even when I was sighted, I did not rely on these notes, I
>> took my own notes during class, and as a blind student, I have never
>> encountered a class where I could not keep up with my own notes and not
>> follow along with a lecture and PP slides.
>>
>> I've also relied heavily on my own ability to scan material.  I too take
>> print hand outs even when instructors do send them as electronic copies.
>> And as a creative writing major taking studios based around
>> workshopping, I can not tell you the number of times I have had to scan
>> student manuscripts because my classmates failed to send electronic
>> copies.  Scanning the print copies allowed me to have the material I
>> needed on time.  And perhaps I am just lucky, but I have rarely had a
>> situation where Kurzweil scanned so badly that I could not read the
>> material or retrieve info like italics, bolding, paragraph breaks and
>> other formatting issues.
>>
>> It may require more effort on our part, but if we want to be successful
>> in school, we need to be proactive and aggressive about ensuring we have
>> what we need-- and sometimes this means we will have to do the work.  Is
>> it fair we have to go out of our way for things that are simpler for
>> sighted students?  No.  And should schools provide everything and
>> anything we need on time and accessibly?  Yes.  The truth is, though,
>> that this is not reality, and instead of bitching and acting entitled to
>> everything, maybe we need to step up and be responsible-- even if it
>> isn't fair.  And how proactive are we being?  Don't let others be the
>> middle man with your academic life-- well, just life.  Do as much as you
>> can on your own.
>>
>> I have never expected my disability services office or instructors to
>> keep tabs on what I need and when I need it.  In fact, my DSO requires
>> students to do the work of finding out what books and material you need.
>> Every semester I have to contact instructors to learn what course
>> material will be assigned, then I turn this info over to the DSO.
>> Beyond my books, I rely little on my DSO, and even then I've been
>> seeking textbooks out on my own when I can.
>>
>> I rarely send print documents to the DSO for scanning.  I prefer to do
>> it on my own.  And I actually tell professors to do everything the way
>> they always, and if I require assistance, or if elements of the class
>> are not working as is, I will pipe up and express this.  This includes
>> requesting and reminding for hard copy hand outs to be sent
>> electronically if possible, as well as asking questions during lectures
>> or discussions.
>>
>> I am not directing this to Ashley or anyone else, I am simply commenting
>> on a trend I see among too many students.  Life isn't fair nor is it
>> perfect.  This is the reality for all people-- disabled or not.
>>
>> As Arielle said, we should never, never stop advocating for ourselves
>> and others, but sometimes we become our own worse enemies and make more
>> work for ourselves when we complain about what others are not doing for
>> us.
>>
>> Please do not think I am suggesting we don't have real problems, and
>> there aren't situations where we truly are not receiving the services
>> essential for us as students.  In my experience, though, I see too many
>> students fail to understand the part they should play in their life.  We
>> have to verbalize every need.  Do not expect others to know, or
>> understand, what you need, especially instructors.  They should comply
>> and be willing to help, but they are only human.  Communicate your
>> specific needs and remind them when material is not sent on time.
>>
>> Also realize what responsibility you can take as a student.  Learn to
>> rely on yourself and not others because they will fail you-- this is
>> life.  If you feel you are not receiving equal treatment, or
>> communication has broke, figure out what part you play in the equation.
>> Have you done everything necessary on your end?  Trust me, this will
>> make you a much happier student.
>>
>> If you think school sucks in terms of accessibility, wait until you are
>> in the workforce.  *smile*
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:42:53 -0500
>> From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Handouts etc.
>> Message-ID: <01ee01cbefcb$10999010$31ccb030$@com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Not that it's absolutely ideal, but can somebody please explain to me
>> what is so terrible about having to scan something yourself if you have
>> the equipment to do so at your disposal? I understand why multiple long
>> books could be a problem, though scanning those is, by and large, what I
>> did through college. In the time it takes to write a post about how
>> horrible it is to have to scan a handout, the damn thing probably could
>> have been scanned and OCR ed thrice over. Sorry if I'm way off base
>> here, but we have to be prepared to step up and do things for ourselves
>> if we want to succeed, even if it isn't fair or right, which I agree, it
>> isn't. Life isn't always fair, and the right thing isn't always the
>> thing done. Not saying that it's not something to strive for, but while
>> we're striving, we'd better be prepared to deal with the world as it
>> actually exists.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Brice Smith
> North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations
> Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com
>
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