[nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Fri Apr 29 04:56:31 UTC 2011 

I hear you.  It's spring and hay fever season! (grin)  Now if the weather
would only act like the damned trees and flowers ...

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

Oh, forgot about that one. My problem is that I have enough other medical 
conditions that some of the other senses that would help make up for vision,

such as smell, don't work to their full capacity or at all.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..


> Nope; it's the smell that gives 'em away! <g>
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:15 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..
>
> Yes, you can judge people by their voices, but I think that sighted people
> judge others by appearance more often than blind people judge people by
> their voices. For example, a sighted might not talk to someone because the
> person was wearing shabby clothes. Can you tell that a person is wearing
> shabby clothes by the voice?
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..
>
>
>> What's the difference between looking at them and talking to them?  Both
>> sight and hearing are fallible.  Seems to me even here we are ascribing 
>> to
>> sight a mystique it does not merit.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Jedi
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:03 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..
>>
>> But we do tend to judge people on appearances if we know what they look
>> like. If we don't know, then we will judge someone on some other
>> grounds like the way they talk. But you're right, at least so-and-so
>> has less a chance of being juedged by us as quickly; at least we'll
>> talk to them first before judging them.
>>
>> Respectfully Submitted
>>
>> Original message:
>>> I do find that blindness seems to have at least one benefit. I cannot
>> judge
>>> people by their appearances without having someone describe them to me.
>>> Given that I don't walk around with a describer every day, most if not
>>> all
>>> of my friendships and acquaintances are made without knowing what a
>>> person
>>> looks like and without judging them by it. Yes, sighted people can 
>>> ignore
>>> appearances, but it is different when you don't have a choice.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:53 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..
>>
>>
>>>> But are these examples of the virtue of blindness or, rather, are they
>>>> just
>>>> taking advantage of a group that exists?  And the fact that blindness
>>>> caused
>>>> some innovation in the past doesn't necessarily mean that it will in 
>>>> the
>>>> future.
>>
>>>> Examples such as the Blind Driver Challenge and Ray Kurzweil's OCR 
>>>> work,
>>>> while true, do not, in my view, constitute a reason for *preserving*
>>>> blindness.  After all, schizophrenics are often damned creative.  Does
>>>> this
>>>> mean we shouldn't work for a cure or at least an amelioration of the
>>>> destructive symptoms of schizophrenia?  Before you reflexively say
>>>> "yes".
>>>> Consider all the harm schizophrenia does.  I'm not saying blindness
>> causes
>>>> harm; it doesn't.  but in a world structured for the sighted, I don't
>>>> see
>>>> any great benefits of blindness in and of itself.
>>
>>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jedi
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:57 PM
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..
>>
>>>> Arielle,
>>
>>>> I think blindness does serve a purpose. First of all, we learn more
>>>> about our species when there are differences among us. So for example,
>>>> blind people have been used as controls or experimental groups for all
>>>> kinds of neural research having nothing to do with sight as a means by
>>>> which to understand the human experience. Then, there's the fact that
>>>> we, because of our technological needs, push innovation. For example a
>>>> lot of people are thinking that the blind driver challenge will create
>>>> a lot of technologies that will help others. Similarly, the scanning
>>>> and reading technology the sighted take for granted came as a result of
>>>> Ray Kurzweil's desire to provide a reading medium for the blind.
>>>> Text-to-speech is another   example; we now use TTS for a variety of
>>>> applications having nothihng to do with blindness.
>>
>>>> In general, I think disability is a good thing because it makes us
>>>> realize that there are multiple ways to live in the  universe and there
>>>> really is no such thing as total perfection and that we are perfect in
>>>> our imperfection. I know that may seem a little high-minded and crazy
>>>> to some, but it makes sense to me. As blind people, we are in the
>>>> unique position of getting people to think. When they see us, the
>>>> sighted go crazy. but that craziness has nothing to do with us, but has
>>>> everything to do with themselves in a fundamental way. To the sighted
>>>> (and I'm basing this on philosophical and art history research), we
>>>> represent everything from death to the unknown, everything from fear of
>>>> the dark to a feeling of being out of control. The sighted see us and
>>>> think, how in the hell can they live like that? I think we remind them
>>>> on some level that control is a mental illusion and that feeling out of
>>>> control is also a mental illusion. Again, another of Jedi's weird
>>>> ideas, but it makes sense to me. Basically, no human is ever really in
>>>> control, but at the same time, we have more control of our lives than
>>>> we think. So when a sighted person sees us (especially those of us who
>>>> remind them of themselves as normal people), we cause them to question
>>>> everything they thought they knew, and that's a good thing. That's the
>>>> value of having diversity in general. if we were all the same, we would
>>>> not learn nearly as much as we have.
>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>
>>>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our
>>>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be
>>>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me
>>>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question:
>>>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if
>>>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering
>>>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness?
>>>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers,
>>>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of
>>>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the
>>>>> world as a whole?
>>
>>>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society
>>>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These
>>>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted
>>>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of
>>>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal
>>>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less
>>>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques
>>>>> to accomplish life tasks?
>>>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use
>>>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology
>>>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision
>>>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck
>>>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members
>>>>> could fully function without light.
>>
>>>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of
>>>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function?
>>>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that,
>>>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday.
>>
>>>>> Arielle
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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